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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. In this episode number one hundred

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Speaker 1: and six Tay in the show, we're joined by wildlife

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Speaker 1: biologist Jeremy Flynn to discuss all sorts of advice for

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Speaker 1: managing your hunting property, public land hunting, and much more.

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Speaker 1: All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought

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Speaker 1: to you by Sick of Gear, and we're back from

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Speaker 1: a week long break, and today we're joined by Jeremy Flynn,

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Speaker 1: a wildlife biologist, outdoor writer, and all around white tail nut.

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Speaker 1: And we're going to be discussing everything from ideas for

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Speaker 1: better managing a deer hunting property to public land hunting advice,

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Speaker 1: so kind of this whole gamut of different ways to hunt.

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Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be super interesting. But before we

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Speaker 1: get Jeremy on Dan, it's been a couple of weeks,

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Speaker 1: so I figured we should catch up. Is there anything

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Speaker 1: new new in your deer hunting world. I finally got

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Speaker 1: out and checked one trail camera that I had sitting

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Speaker 1: over a month and uh, I have at least one

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Speaker 1: shooter from last year who's back, and I can't tell

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Speaker 1: who he is. If it's a bucket called Dork who

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Speaker 1: was just like this gigantic bodied uh three year old

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Speaker 1: or excuse me, he's probably a six or seven year

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Speaker 1: old this year, and then or Mark Kenyon. So they

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Speaker 1: both kind of have split brows, so it's hard to

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Speaker 1: tell this point. I'm not you know, I don't study

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Speaker 1: their facial features and their coats. And I set my

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Speaker 1: my trail camera up a little too high last time,

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Speaker 1: so I'm not getting their heads when it's down in

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Speaker 1: the mineral station. So it's kind of hard to get

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Speaker 1: an accurate so I to adjust that. How what date?

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Speaker 1: What date did you get those pictures on? Oh geez um,

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Speaker 1: we don't let me pull up. I gotta I'm on

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Speaker 1: my computer right now, and that date is the date

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Speaker 1: of the big Boy was five, so May one. So

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Speaker 1: how much antler growth did he have at that point? Well,

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Speaker 1: let's see here. Um, he's got a notice will split

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Speaker 1: on his main beams. He's got probably ten to somewhere

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Speaker 1: in between the the eight twelve range for route or

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Speaker 1: for main beams. He's got uh the G two and

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Speaker 1: the that's about it. It's just a bump so split

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Speaker 1: split on the brow ten you mean yeah the brow

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Speaker 1: tyn Yeah, just one and it looks like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: you see some of those brow times where it grows

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Speaker 1: up the main beam just a little bit, and then

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Speaker 1: you have other brow times that look like they're coming

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Speaker 1: straight off of the base. Right. So this this buck

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Speaker 1: has one of each on this picture. So I think

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Speaker 1: it's If I had to guess, I'd say it's this

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Speaker 1: buck I called Dork. He's just a real tight racked,

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Speaker 1: really massed out, thick, uh like three pound buck. This

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Speaker 1: this is reminding me of last year. This is the

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Speaker 1: beginning of my struggling summer while I listened to you

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Speaker 1: talk about trail camera pictures and telet bucks and I

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Speaker 1: just have to imagine what might be on my properties.

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Speaker 1: I'm jealous, right right, So yeah, And I got like

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Speaker 1: can see one, two, three, four, five six. I got

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Speaker 1: six trail cameras out on Saturday. I have another one

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Speaker 1: on another farm, and I got two or three more

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Speaker 1: to put out on another farm yet. So um, I'm

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Speaker 1: behind the eight ball as far as getting mineral out

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Speaker 1: and get them coming to the mineral is concerned. Yeah, hey,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like you have a lot of options eventually,

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Speaker 1: I know. But that's the good thing, right, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's exciting. I just love I love these summer months.

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Speaker 1: It's just like the this is like that season of anticipation,

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Speaker 1: Like checking the pictures gets you a little more excited

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Speaker 1: every single week, and the antlers grow a little bit

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Speaker 1: more and you start to slowly figure out, you know

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Speaker 1: what deer in the area, who's back? And oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: I I I'm stoked. I got a couple of cameras

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Speaker 1: out back in Michigan, couple in Ohio, and now I

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Speaker 1: just have to wait a few months till I get

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Speaker 1: home and check them. But I can't wait to see

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. So, based on the crop rotation,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't last year, but the year before I had

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Speaker 1: my best trick ear of trail cameras ever. So that

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Speaker 1: would have been what two thousand and fourteen crop rotation,

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Speaker 1: And so we're back in that crop rotation this year.

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Speaker 1: And uh, you know there's tons of little young bucks.

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Speaker 1: You know this this bachelor bachelor group of like five

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Speaker 1: bucks is in coming to this mineral site all the time,

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Speaker 1: nothing nothing giant, maybe three year olds and younger. But

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Speaker 1: that same year it happened the same way. So the

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Speaker 1: first of August is when I started blowing up as

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Speaker 1: far as all these giants, like I think I remember

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Speaker 1: talking to you about had like six shooters over over

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Speaker 1: five even over five years old, five years old or older.

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Speaker 1: So hopefully they stick around. Logging is done this year,

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Speaker 1: knock on wood. So I'm but that's that's not really

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Speaker 1: important right now. The what's important is my extreme jealousy

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Speaker 1: for where you are and what you're doing right now. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess. I guess I'm saying I'm jealous about your pictures,

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Speaker 1: but I can't complain too much. I suppose. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: just made the drive last week. The reason why we

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Speaker 1: didn't have the podcast last week was because I drove

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Speaker 1: my wife and I and are dogs headed out for

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Speaker 1: our summer out west again. We're doing it again this year.

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Speaker 1: So who we drove through Minute Wisconsin, Minnesota, North Dakota, Montana,

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Speaker 1: and then down into Idaho. So we're staying here in

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Speaker 1: Idaho for the next month. And uh, so far the

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Speaker 1: last eight days we've been here eight days, I think,

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Speaker 1: and I have either hiked or fly fished every single

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Speaker 1: day so far. So I'm trying to keep that straight

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Speaker 1: going as long as I ken. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it will happen tonight, but I'll try to maybe get

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Speaker 1: out for a little hike because it's been fun. It's

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Speaker 1: been a lot of fun, beautiful, beautiful country. So I

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Speaker 1: just every time you open your mouth, I want to

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Speaker 1: just punch me in the face. It's not it's not

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Speaker 1: even like it's like that on the movie. Uh what

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Speaker 1: step Brothers, Like I want to punch you right in

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Speaker 1: your mouth. I'm sorry. I don't know what it is

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Speaker 1: about you telling spreading your good news makes me so jealous,

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Speaker 1: Like I want to be in the mountains or even

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Speaker 1: just outside, but instead I uh see Maiden China signs

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Speaker 1: all day. Yeah. I know we're talking earlier about the

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Speaker 1: the dull drums of cubical life. I know that um

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Speaker 1: slowly can kill your soul. That definitely did it to me.

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Speaker 1: So I, like I said earlier, if I could, I'd

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Speaker 1: just give you a great bittell right out there, and

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Speaker 1: I really would. I'd accept it too. Oh man, Well,

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Speaker 1: one of these summers you've got to pack up the

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Speaker 1: kids and the family and come and visit us out here,

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Speaker 1: do some hiking, kayaking, fishing, gosh, so that fish. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's I can't say I'm a good teacher because I

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Speaker 1: am just still learning, but just in the couple, you know,

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Speaker 1: last summer learning and now this summer again. While I'm

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Speaker 1: not good at it, I sure found it addicting. It's

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Speaker 1: it's like the bow hunting version of fishing. I feel

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Speaker 1: like for me, it's like as bow hunting is to

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Speaker 1: regular deer hunting, fly fishing is to regular fishing. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of what I've been finding. It's just I don't know,

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Speaker 1: another level of intricacy and strategy and like, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's difficult, but really really like engaging and captivating. Like

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Speaker 1: I just find myself all of a sudden, I've been

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Speaker 1: out there five hours. I'm like, WHOA, where the time going?

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Speaker 1: I just feel like I just got here. Right. So

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Speaker 1: I haven't caught a whole lot yet this summer, just

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Speaker 1: a couple, but I'm trying. I'm trying. Have you gotten

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Speaker 1: your plaid shirt and pipe yet? No pipe? I'm rocking

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Speaker 1: the plaid shirt on occasion, but I haven't had I

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Speaker 1: have not found a pipe to my liking yet damn,

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Speaker 1: but one of these days that will I know it's

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Speaker 1: I know it's hard, but just do me a favor

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Speaker 1: and with words, paint me a picture of some of

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Speaker 1: the views that and this is gonna satisfy me for

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Speaker 1: maybe thirty or forty minutes. But just like a couple

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Speaker 1: of real quick sentences, maybe one sentence of how beautiful

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Speaker 1: it is out there, and that will make me more jealous. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I'll describe to you the setting. The other day,

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Speaker 1: I was fishing the Snake River, which is this beautiful

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Speaker 1: river that runs along the base of the Grand Tetons.

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Speaker 1: So you just have this wide, maybe hundred yard wide river.

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Speaker 1: This is flowing nice kind of bubbling brook type sounds.

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Speaker 1: You hear the water going over the rocks. You've got

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Speaker 1: a moose standing on the opposite shore looking around, and

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Speaker 1: then as you gaze up, you've got the sun setting

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Speaker 1: behind these three peaks, the cathedral peaks of the of

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Speaker 1: the Teton Range. They're just jagged. It's the most like

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Speaker 1: dramatic skyline of mountains I've ever seen. And it's just

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Speaker 1: like a like a saw tooth blades up and down,

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Speaker 1: up and down across the sky with those beams of sun,

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Speaker 1: they're just starting to hide behind it, coming over so much.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever seen that. When you've

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Speaker 1: you can see the actually you can actually see the

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Speaker 1: rays of light coming over something, whether it be trees

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Speaker 1: or in this case, mountains. Those rays of light are

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Speaker 1: actually coming down, reaching down, right down to the river

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Speaker 1: in front of me, and that that right there is

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Speaker 1: a pretty good day. That didn't make me feel I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Get yourself a plane ticket. I know, I know.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to talk my wife and kids into moving

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Speaker 1: into one of those teeny houses. Where have you ever

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Speaker 1: seen that documentary Tiny House? Yeah, there's a whole TV

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Speaker 1: show on it now, I love it. Yeah, I've been

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Speaker 1: trying to do the same thing, trying to convince my

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Speaker 1: wife who could do it, because I mean, I always say,

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Speaker 1: if you downsize your payments, you can upsize your life.

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Speaker 1: That's like my my new philosophy is like trying to

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Speaker 1: cut other awesome things that we don't really need so

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Speaker 1: we can go do the stuff we want to do.

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Speaker 1: So that's one of those things that guess, if you

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Speaker 1: could cut your house payment down, you can travel more,

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Speaker 1: do different things work less. I don't know. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of a fun idea to think about at least.

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Speaker 1: So we have got to get our guests on the

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Speaker 1: line now. But I believe you've got to run because

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Speaker 1: you're on your baby duty today right right. I'm on

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Speaker 1: a different schedule as far as today because we're recording

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Speaker 1: a different time, but I got in for the intro

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Speaker 1: just to catch up with you, and uh, I guess

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Speaker 1: I'll be back next week at our regularly regularly scheduled

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Speaker 1: programming time. Yes, well, I appreciate you happening on for

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Speaker 1: a little bit, Dan, and we're going to take a

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Speaker 1: quick break for word from our partners at Sick Gear,

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Speaker 1: and then we will get our guests on the line.

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Speaker 1: So as we do every week, we've got a sick

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Speaker 1: story for you, and today it's from Mike Mansell, who

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Speaker 1: last year focused in a enormous amount of effort trying

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Speaker 1: to get a shot at of buck you've been after

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Speaker 1: for several years prior. In two thousand fIF he manipulated

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Speaker 1: his property and food plots and tree stands all with

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Speaker 1: the goal of getting a shot at this dandy four

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Speaker 1: and a half year old nine pointer, and then Finally,

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Speaker 1: one day in December, it all came together and the

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Speaker 1: buck appeared in shooting range. The only problem Mike had

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Speaker 1: already filled his tag on another deer, so he couldn't shoot.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was it was upsetting at first, but

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Speaker 1: it was probably one of the most rewarding feelings has

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Speaker 1: all the work that we put in. Who harder was

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Speaker 1: that particular dear, and just seeing that it would have

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Speaker 1: worked even if I had a take at the time, Um,

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Speaker 1: it was that vertty special it was. It was pretty

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Speaker 1: cool to see it's where it actually would have panned out.

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Speaker 1: So how do you feel what it's coming year? How

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Speaker 1: excuttered are you to get another shot at him? I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty stoked, um, as we've got a really good chance

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Speaker 1: at him. So be honestly, how many times have you

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Speaker 1: thought about that deer already this year? Oh? It's I've

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Speaker 1: I've looked at the pictures, the Tiana photos, the video

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Speaker 1: of the encounter, several plants. He's already on my behind.

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna sleep much this far

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Speaker 1: for good reason. Hopefully we'll have a part two to

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Speaker 1: the sick Of story as Mike takes another crack at

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Speaker 1: his buck in two thousand and sixteen. But back to

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Speaker 1: that two fifteen encounter. On that hunt, Mike was wearing

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Speaker 1: a Sick of Gear shack Itt Fanatic hoodie and the

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Speaker 1: Equinox pants. If you'd like to learn more about what

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Speaker 1: sick of Gear options might be right for you, visit

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Speaker 1: sick of Gear dot com. And now let's get back

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Speaker 1: to the show and give our guests Jeremy Flynn a call.

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Speaker 1: All right with us Now on the line is Jeremy Flynn.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to show. Jeremy first aid Mark. Yeah. I I've

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Speaker 1: been reading a lot of things from me over the

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Speaker 1: past few years and have thought to myself over and

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Speaker 1: over again, I've got to talk to Jeremy some day.

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Speaker 1: I got to have him on the show. So I'm

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Speaker 1: really glad this is finally happening. Thanks for making this

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Speaker 1: happen to him. I appreciate it, man. I Like I said,

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Speaker 1: I've been a big fan of the podcast, listen to

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Speaker 1: a lot of them over the years, and and kind

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Speaker 1: as they were discussing any day is a good day

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Speaker 1: to talk to your Yeah, I haven't found a day

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Speaker 1: yet that's not a good one to talk about this topics.

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Speaker 1: So so I guess. With that said, though, before we

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Speaker 1: get too far, for those that aren't further with who

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Speaker 1: you are, can you give us a little bit of

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Speaker 1: background as to, you know, how you got to where

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Speaker 1: you are now and what you're doing today in relation

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Speaker 1: to two deer? Sure? Absolutely so. You know, I grew

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Speaker 1: up in in western Pennsylvania, which cohincidentally is where i'm

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Speaker 1: that right now. It's kind of been a full circle

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Speaker 1: ride for me. UM did my undergrad at penn State

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Speaker 1: University and wildlife UM work you know, numerous jobs and

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Speaker 1: internships do in whitefield deer research, and kind of always

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Speaker 1: knew I needed to go to the next level UM,

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Speaker 1: and so in two thousand and seven I started doing

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Speaker 1: my master's degree at Mississippi State University. Spent three years

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Speaker 1: in Mississippi UM doing research on trail cameras and and

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Speaker 1: aging and scoring deer from photographs. Was kind of my

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Speaker 1: big background there. And you know, some people that may

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Speaker 1: be listening to the podcast and in two thousand and ten,

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Speaker 1: eleven and twelve might remember buck score UM, which was

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Speaker 1: a computer software that was out for a while and

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Speaker 1: and that was one of the derivatives of my research.

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Speaker 1: When I was at Mississippi State UM, and so kind

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Speaker 1: of leaving Mississippi State, they spent several years managing that

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Speaker 1: program and that company UM only to end up at

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Speaker 1: Cabela's about three years ago and ran the Midwest and

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Speaker 1: Northeast sections for their Wildlife and Land Management division and

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Speaker 1: uh kind of going through on that, you know, Cabela's

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Speaker 1: was a great opportunity for me to to expand my

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Speaker 1: horizons as a dear biologist and uh, but really on

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Speaker 1: my passion to be working kind of on my own

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Speaker 1: as a as not only a wildlife consultant, but got

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Speaker 1: into growing businesses UM when I was in my software

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Speaker 1: days and now kind of my main focus is running

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Speaker 1: my company and being the marketing officer for Stone Road

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Speaker 1: Media UM. And we do a lot of marketing for

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Speaker 1: hunting organizations, both television shows as well as manufacturing companies.

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Speaker 1: And then we also operate the Bucket Advisors, which is

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Speaker 1: basically our wildlife management arm which we produced a lot

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Speaker 1: of video content for these companies but also providing good

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Speaker 1: informational and educational pieces for just kind of the average

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Speaker 1: deer hunter. UM. You know, maybe the guys who own

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Speaker 1: big properties, but but a lot of times it's it's

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Speaker 1: guys who have small properties or even hunting public land.

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Speaker 1: So you've got you've got such a cool set of experiences.

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Speaker 1: There's so many different things that sound like super super

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Speaker 1: interest in to to be involved in. But I want

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Speaker 1: to go all the way back to school. What was

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Speaker 1: it like going to school for deer related stuff? I mean,

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Speaker 1: that sounds like a dream come true for most people,

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Speaker 1: you know, and it was. Man, I mean I remember

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Speaker 1: growing up and it's kind of funny. I felt like

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Speaker 1: I was in that position where that's the only thing

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Speaker 1: that I really wanted to do. And you know, for

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Speaker 1: for a lot of people thinking about it, you know,

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Speaker 1: you kind of wonder, you know, what do you do

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Speaker 1: with that kind of an education? And and really there's

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Speaker 1: probably a lot of people who may be listening to

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Speaker 1: this and even in school, that are asking themselves that

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Speaker 1: same question. I mean, what what do you do with

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Speaker 1: that career? And and the hard facts are is that

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Speaker 1: there aren't a ton of opportunities once you get out

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Speaker 1: of school. UM, So you've got to make sure that

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Speaker 1: while you're in it to maximize it more than just

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Speaker 1: the educational level. And what I mean by that is

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Speaker 1: experiences everything, Um, and so it was such a cool

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Speaker 1: opportunity to get involved and being wild life. But then

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Speaker 1: it was almost scary to know that there's so much

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Speaker 1: competition for so few jobs. And and call me stubborn,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of people did when I was in school,

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Speaker 1: But you know, I just wanted to work with deer.

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Speaker 1: You know, I love turkey hunting, I love grouse hunting,

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Speaker 1: I love I love trout fishing, and at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, I just wanted to work with deer.

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Speaker 1: And and you think about on a landscape level, even

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Speaker 1: across the country, there's not a ton of jobs that

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Speaker 1: work with deer um, you know, if you've got a

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Speaker 1: handful of state biologists and maybe work with deer um

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Speaker 1: on a federal level, very few, if any, because it's

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Speaker 1: such a state managed species. And then on the private sector,

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Speaker 1: you know, feel and far between, especially outside of Texas

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Speaker 1: and most of the major ranches. So it was a

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Speaker 1: cool experience, but it also was scary to know to

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Speaker 1: think about where is it gonna lead to UM once

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Speaker 1: school was over, And yeah, I had some really good guidance.

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Speaker 1: I think that pointed to if you really want to

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Speaker 1: make an impact UM and try to go somewhere, you know,

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Speaker 1: Masters was what I needed to do and and really

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Speaker 1: to leave my home state of Pennsylvania. It was the

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Speaker 1: first time I really had to go outside of that

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Speaker 1: state and be gone for an extended period of time.

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Speaker 1: That was probably the hardest part of it. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: can imagine. So once you did go to matt to

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Speaker 1: get your masters at Mississippi State, I think you said

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Speaker 1: you were researching and working on this project related to

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Speaker 1: aging and scoring bucks. Right, Well, what what were the

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Speaker 1: major takeaways you came that you came out of that

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Speaker 1: experience with What did you learn about aging and scoring bucks?

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Speaker 1: Was there any major take home message? Yeah? You know.

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Speaker 1: The cool thing about it, I mean everything dealt around photography,

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Speaker 1: and I mean, even though we did some handheld, you know, photographs,

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Speaker 1: of what we studied were trail camera pictures. And to

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Speaker 1: this day, I'm still a trail camera junkey dis like you,

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Speaker 1: you know. I mean, it's it's one of those things

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Speaker 1: that it's like Christmas, you know, every day that you

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Speaker 1: want to take trail cameras, you never know if you're

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Speaker 1: gonna have on. And we were just looking at some

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Speaker 1: pictures here on a new property. I have a Pennilvania

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Speaker 1: with red box all of this place, and you know,

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Speaker 1: even though it's not dear, it's just really cool to

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Speaker 1: see that kind of stuff. So, UM, I think that

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Speaker 1: it's in the grand scheme of things to to know

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Speaker 1: that you're looking at a picture and you're trying to

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Speaker 1: identify age or antler size. UM. The major takeaways that

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Speaker 1: we found, UM, we studied mostly southeastern deer, but then

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Speaker 1: we really started expanding it, you know, across the Northeast

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Speaker 1: and Midwest, was that although deer, you know, like in

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Speaker 1: Saskatchewan maybe bigger than deer in some parts of the

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Speaker 1: coast of Mississippi or even Florida, we found that they

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Speaker 1: were mostly proportionately larger on an aging standpoint. So even

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Speaker 1: though you look at that fully rutted out buck um

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Speaker 1: from Alberta or or even Wisconsin and you're like, man,

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Speaker 1: deer doesn't even have a neck on him, it proportionally

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Speaker 1: is still the same size as a Florida deer would be. UM.

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Speaker 1: So if you took measurements of the neck and compared

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Speaker 1: it to the chest, there took chest measurements and compared

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Speaker 1: it to the stomach. Earth as long as you were

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Speaker 1: looking within the same age classes, they were proportionately larger

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Speaker 1: um And I thought that was a big take of

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Speaker 1: message because you know, a lot of people have trouble

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Speaker 1: aging deer from different regions of the country because you know,

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Speaker 1: the nutrition especially. You think while the deer in the

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Speaker 1: Midwest are just you know, eating crops all year long

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Speaker 1: and they're putting on weight. But really your eyeballs should

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Speaker 1: be trained to look at different proportions than anything else. Interesting.

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Speaker 1: So what would you say then, I imagine giving all

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Speaker 1: this work you did, you probably came away with some

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Speaker 1: some some helpful maybe guidelines or steps to trying to

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Speaker 1: age deer on the hoof, whether it be in person

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Speaker 1: or in trail cameras. Would there be anything you could

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Speaker 1: share with us now in regards to how you go

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Speaker 1: about trying to make those you know, estimates, Now, sure, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I mean we we looked at so many different variations

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Speaker 1: of different features on the deer compared to each other,

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Speaker 1: you know, still uh to the to the day. Probably

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Speaker 1: the chest girth is obviously a big indicator, especially as

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Speaker 1: related to the stomach garth um. So you know, when

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Speaker 1: people think about that classic three year old like thoroughbred racehorse,

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Speaker 1: look obviously that's because you're looking for that deep chest

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Speaker 1: but not necessarily filled out in the stomach earth um,

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Speaker 1: as it would get closer to a four year older

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Speaker 1: than even a five year old whom we are starting

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Speaker 1: to look at the sack of the stomach UM, so

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Speaker 1: that that definitely was a big indicator UM the next earth.

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Speaker 1: So both at the base end up towards the jawline. Actually,

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Speaker 1: so you think about a young one or two year

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Speaker 1: old bucket, you know, almost looked this spin as a

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Speaker 1: dough up around the jawline where the neck would meet

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Speaker 1: that area and you get into that three, four and

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Speaker 1: five year old age class. Even in the pre run.

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Speaker 1: There's just a definitive difference UM in that size. So

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Speaker 1: I think that susy feature wise. Those those are two

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Speaker 1: of the bigger areas or comparisons that we looked at,

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Speaker 1: And you know a lot of people were still and

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Speaker 1: ending and as a biologist, I say, you know, don't

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Speaker 1: look at the Endler's obviously for age UM. But what

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Speaker 1: we did find is one of the most definitive age classifications,

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Speaker 1: especially when you bring in like the chest or the

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Speaker 1: neck into play. As looking at the deer overall was

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Speaker 1: the basil circumference. You know, as that basil circumference increased

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Speaker 1: regardless of what was above it, whether it was a

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Speaker 1: six point or twelve point um you know, whether it

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Speaker 1: was a hundred ten inch buck or a hundred and

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Speaker 1: seventy at basil circumference played a huge role in us

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Speaker 1: being able to um separate age classes. Um. So you know,

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Speaker 1: we were looking at it as on a very micro level.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we were actually using measurement tools to measure

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Speaker 1: that basil circumference and a picture. Um. But you know,

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Speaker 1: visually you can tell as well. You know, you can

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Speaker 1: tell the difference between a two year old that's really

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Speaker 1: thin in a four year that's starting to put some mass,

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Speaker 1: well m circumference. Yeah, So so the basil's circumference, correct

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Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong, But we're talking just about the

429
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 1: mass the circumference of the antler right at the base,

430
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 1: right right at the base. Yep. So you know, obviously

431
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 1: you can probably extrapolate that and say, well, you know,

432
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: sicker mass at the base is going to lead to

433
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 1: a better mass measurement overall for Boon and Crockett score,

434
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: And then Boo and Crockett score probably plays a factor

435
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: in age and it does. But you know, really just

436
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: that Basil's circumference when we would look at that measurement individually,

437
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: um and and again bringing in the factors of the neck,

438
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: in the chest, earth, in the stomach, earth, all of

439
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: those together really was what separated age classes out the

440
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: best for us on a measurement standpoint. Yeah, makes sense.

441
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: It's one of those things trying to age dear on

442
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 1: the hoof or on pictures. You know, it's not a

443
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not a you know, down past science,

444
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: but sure's a lot of fun trying to trying to

445
00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 1: figure it out and using these types of It's so

446
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: tough too, I mean, you know, really, like I tell everyone,

447
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 1: when you get to the even like this time of

448
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,479
Speaker 1: the year, I mean, deer still look ragged. They're not

449
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: nearly as as thick as they're going to be in

450
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: another two months. I mean, that pre rut time period

451
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 1: is about the most consistent you're gonna get, you know,

452
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: because once you get into the peak ride, I mean,

453
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,919
Speaker 1: different deer are going to develop muscular better or worse

454
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 1: than other deer in the same age class. Um, So

455
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 1: you tend to get the most consistent in that pre

456
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: ride and then you had to get to the post. Rude.

457
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 1: I mean that's a whole different ballgamean planning on food stores,

458
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: how worn down from the rut. You know, lots of

459
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 1: factors playing into that, but it is it's it is

460
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: more of just training yourself. And like I tell everybody,

461
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 1: I mean it's harder for the guys who hunt multiple

462
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: places across the country, but the ones that are really

463
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: sticking to a local area or even a single property,

464
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 1: I mean, train yourself on those deer and and really

465
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: just try to stay consistent. It's like doing a camera survey.

466
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: You may not know the definitive number of beer every

467
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,439
Speaker 1: year on that property, as long as you're monitoring the trend.

468
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: So if you stay consistent saying these are all three

469
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: year old, then these are all four year olds in

470
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 1: your eye, and that's what you're You know, you're going

471
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: to be fairly close within a year or so. UM.

472
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: So that in itself is gonna help you develop a

473
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 1: better herd overall. Um. If you try to always say, well,

474
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna shoot you know, three year old this year,

475
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: I'm only gonna shoot four year old, You're very rarely

476
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: going to be a accurate. There's gonna be three year

477
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 1: olds that look like four year olds? Is gonna be

478
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 1: four year olds that look like three year olds? Just

479
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 1: the name of the game? Yeah, yeah, definitely. So so

480
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: speaking of that type of situation, you know, hunting a

481
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: specific property, managing it for for a certain age class. Um,

482
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: if I think, I think I saw that you just

483
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 1: recently bought a piece of property. Is that right? You

484
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: just started going front? I did, I did. I've got

485
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 1: so you know, after being in in the well, I

486
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: lived in the Midwest for the last five years, Um,

487
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: I moved back to my home state, about an hour

488
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,400
Speaker 1: south of where I grew up. And we've got just

489
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: a small piece, just under thirty acres right at the

490
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: base of the mountains. So for sure not the Midwest

491
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 1: fertile soils that we were dealing with in Missouri, but

492
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: you know, definitely a cool piece to to start from

493
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: scratch essentially and and really build up into you know,

494
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 1: more of a hunting property and a wildlife seeing property.

495
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: From my wife and my kids, I mean, my wife

496
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: loves the hind. I can't wait to get my kids

497
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: out in the woods and start hunting. You know, it's

498
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: a it's a cool opportunity to start something from scratch.

499
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: But also there's anyone who has property notes that regardless

500
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: of size, it's always work. Yeah. Yeah, but like you said,

501
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 1: a lot of fun to be able to do that

502
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: work on your own little piece of a little piece

503
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: of paradise, right. It's it's a dream comes true, man.

504
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't I can't imagine how long it's

505
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: been that I've thought about having my own piece of dirt.

506
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: But you know, I could call my own I put

507
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 1: my own tub plot in, I could shoot my own

508
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 1: deer over, you know. And I know, obviously everything public

509
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 1: resource at the end of the day when we talk

510
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 1: about wildlife, but you know, you definitely look at things

511
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: a little different when it's your own property. Um, you know,

512
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: even I mean at least tons of property in the past.

513
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 1: It's it's a completely different feeling to know that you're

514
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,199
Speaker 1: responsible for that pizza dirt. You definitely become protective of it.

515
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: I can tell you that I probably have more trail

516
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: cameras up for trust passers than I do have for wildlife.

517
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: So um, but it but it is a neat thing

518
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: to have and into experience, especially with the kids growing up. Yeah.

519
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: So so when you've got a piece of property like this,

520
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: you know, when you're just starting out and you you

521
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: you go into this, it sounds like you went into

522
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: this with a goal of creating a deer hunting property,

523
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: a better deer hunting property than it is today. How

524
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: do you start that process? Like, what are the things

525
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: you're thinking about or taking you know, taking inventory of

526
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: or where does that process begin? So even know, the

527
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: first thing that I do is that I go to

528
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: maps right away, you know, before I even step foot

529
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: on a piece of ground. UM. And a couple of

530
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: things I'm looking for one, you know, area views them.

531
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: I'm looking to see the lay of the land UM,

532
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: in particular what's surrounding the property. So you know, like

533
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: I said, I've got just under thirty acres, which most

534
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: people are thinking, well that's you know, that's barely anything

535
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: to hunt. You know. The way that it lays out

536
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: is thirty acres of all timber, you know, basically decides

537
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 1: where my house is at um, which is probably a

538
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: little over an acre acre and a half of open ground.

539
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: Everything else is solid woods. UM. It's a very rugged terrain. UM,

540
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: lots of deep cuts in the hillsides um steep through

541
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: the middle. So I mean if you if you look

542
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: at it over top and you think, wow, that's that's

543
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: thirty acres if you legged it, you know it may

544
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: hunt sixty or ninety acres UM just because of how

545
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: much topography is actually there. So that's one thing that

546
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: I always like to look at is that overall. But

547
00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: even more so than that, UM is what's surrounding my property. UM.

548
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: You know, if it's a thirty acre island in the

549
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: middle of of uh you know, residential community or something,

550
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: then it's it's one thing, you know, the opportunity to

551
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,719
Speaker 1: have that kind of stuff nearby and and just you know,

552
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: see what the deer movement would be relative to the

553
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: properties around you makes a big difference. For for instance,

554
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: my property I border about two acres of privately owned

555
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: timberland from a paper company. Uh. And then there's a

556
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: public state game lands that even borders that. So you know,

557
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: if you wanted to say how contiguous is your property,

558
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: it's probably approaching a half a million acres UM. So

559
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: you never know what's gonna end up in uh, in

560
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: the property, even though it's only thirty UM because of

561
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: what's surrounding you. So I would say number one, as

562
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: I go to the map, that's gonna give you the

563
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: best view of the not only what your property has

564
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: and it's and its benefits, its advantages and disadvantages, but

565
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: what's the potential around it, because that's obviously going to

566
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: affect it, especially smaller landowners. Yeah, so when you look

567
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: at your property right now, when you think about that question,

568
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: you look at the high level of view and you say,

569
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: what does my property have? What does it not have?

570
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: One of the advantages and disadvantages? What did you actually

571
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: what was the answer to that question when you answered

572
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: after looking at this so so obviously the big one

573
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: was that I had a ton of privately held land

574
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: that bumped right up next to my property, um and

575
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: then even the public land next to that, knowing that

576
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: there probably would be some pressure on top of the

577
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: mountain and I'm at the base, so naturally we see

578
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: a lot of wildlife kind of migrate down off the

579
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: hills as the season progresses, not only from hunting pressure,

580
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: but weather as well. Um So that was one big

581
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: thing that I saw, the one that I really thought

582
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: was a big advantage to mine and to some people

583
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: wouldn't be because the property was logged out um in

584
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: the early two thousands, taking everything basically eight inches in

585
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: diameter and under um and so and today it's it's

586
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: thick um. I mean it's it's navigable. You can get

587
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: through it. There's still some big timber, We've got some

588
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: big oaks on the property and an American beach that

589
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: will produce some good hard mass. But the amount of

590
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: greenbrier and cover compared to the mature timberland that basically

591
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: surrounds it, I saw, is a huge advantage. Um. Not

592
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: only is embedding, but I've told everybody from the start,

593
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: if I can see deer and this time of the

594
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: year where there's food everywhere, when we get to the

595
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,479
Speaker 1: fall and it's all relying on hard mass, and then

596
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,959
Speaker 1: even into the winter when we're talking about all natural brows,

597
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: this property is going to just be loaded with deer um.

598
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: And we've seen that. We've seen a lot of deer

599
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: on the property, bachelor groups moving through already in this

600
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: late spring when home ranges are pretty small. But I

601
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: think as we get into the fall and the hard

602
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: mass and then they rely more on the natural brows

603
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: with these big clothes, canopy forced basically surrounding it. These

604
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: deer going to be just suck been into this property

605
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: because there's so much natural browse form, which is always

606
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: a huge benefit to me. I mean that's no matter

607
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: where you're at, I don't care if you're in the

608
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: Midwest or you're in the Northeast. Number one suit source

609
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: for the deer is going to be the natural browse. Yeah. So,

610
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: were there any major uh gaps that you saw or

611
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: major issues that you saw when you're starting to looking

612
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: at Is there anything that you're like, Okay, this I

613
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: need to fix. Well, I mean the number one in

614
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: my lovely home state of Pennsylvania is is always trespassing.

615
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: I mean, we've got such a high number of hunters

616
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: in the state identity. Um, there's quite a few houses

617
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: that border my property and and I'm sure, based on

618
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: the previous landowners not being hunters, that there will be

619
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: quite a few people dabbling in on my property this year.

620
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: And I expect that, you know, the first couple of years,

621
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: it's just gonna be a lot of monitoring and laying

622
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: down the law. Um, you know, knowing that somebody is

623
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: actually there to enforce trust passing on the property. Um,

624
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: you know, that's something that every landowner deal with. So

625
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: the one thing that I thought was going to be

626
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: the hardest and still is this day, and I'll be honest,

627
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: I haven't even quite figured it out myself, is access um.

628
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: When you've got twenty twenty nine acres of of solid

629
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: timber and basically there's two main access points where one

630
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,919
Speaker 1: where my houses and one that has a little piece

631
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: of road frontage completely on the opposite end, it's it's

632
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: hard to navigate through there. There are some more logging roads,

633
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: but because it's so thick, at any given point you

634
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: could you could essentially come through a betting area. So

635
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: I think the big challenge, you know, even through the

636
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: first few seasons, is going to be figuring out where

637
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: the definitive betting areas or do I need to create

638
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: more definitive betting areas, not necessarily because there's a lack

639
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: of betting on the property. The more so that I

640
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: can kind of patterned deer to be able to navigate

641
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: to my three stand in and out more efficiently, Right,

642
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense. If you can't, if

643
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 1: you can't naturally figure out where those opportunity areas are

644
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: to get in there unnoticed. You can encourage deer to

645
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: go certain places where you can avoid. That's that's a

646
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: good and that's that's one of the hardest things that

647
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: I think any property I think really deals with and

648
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: maybe even has the lack of knowledge on is you know,

649
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 1: what's the effect of going in and out? I mean,

650
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: just by nature, we're going to take the path of

651
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 1: least resistance. You know that's a logging road or or

652
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: bag feel, but it doesn't matter, um and we don't

653
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: necessarily think thoroughly of where those deer are going to

654
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 1: be during the entrance and exit time. So the stands

655
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 1: and you know, I think with the heavily timbered ground,

656
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: especially when it's very even though there's a little bit

657
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: difference in the habitat type, deer literally could be betting everywhere.

658
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,760
Speaker 1: And I mean I've jumped them in ten different places

659
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: on that property that it's like, how am I going

660
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: to congregate these deer in an area that lets me

661
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: navigate through a little bit? More so, how have you

662
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: tried to go about figuring this property out? You you

663
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: haven't hunted it, right, this is your first spring owning it? Correct? Yeah,

664
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: we literally just move in about two months ago, so

665
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 1: it's like fresh off the fresh out the gate for sure.

666
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: So so what have you been doing so far to

667
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: try to start figuring out and what are your plans

668
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: for the next couple of months leading up to the

669
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: hunting season, Just to you know, this is your first season,

670
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: how do you establish that base knowledge? You know, the again,

671
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: the master are really critical on that. Um. You know.

672
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: The second thing and I try to do it as

673
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,399
Speaker 1: carefully as possible is just straight navigation and legging out

674
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: the property. Um. It's been really hard to try to

675
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 1: figure out how to get in there and get out

676
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,879
Speaker 1: of there without moving deer. And I know a lot

677
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: of people are extremely sensitive of putting pressure on the

678
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: herd um, But at this time of the year, I'm

679
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 1: always one of those people that I don't I don't

680
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: want to put a lot of pressure on them, But

681
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 1: I also don't think that it hurts to walk through

682
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: a property if you bump a deer here or there.

683
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, you know, four months

684
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: from now, it's probably not going to make a big difference. Um.

685
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: You know, as we get close to the season July August,

686
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 1: then I'm a little bit more concerned. You know, I

687
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 1: don't want to be pushing deer around when I'm a

688
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: couple of months out from the season. I want them

689
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: to settle in. I want them to feel comfortable. Um.

690
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: But I do try to get out there and move

691
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 1: through the property as much as possible, especially with this

692
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: rain that we have. I mean there's there's funnels and

693
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: gaps and saddles all through there, um you know, and

694
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 1: even locating some of the remnant big oak trees through

695
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: there to figure out where some of these hard mass

696
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: rod spots are gonna be. I think that's one of

697
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 1: the biggest things, um, you know. Also just being a

698
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 1: big trail camera nut. You know, We've got five cameras

699
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: I think out right now on on thirty acres, and

700
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 1: I'm sure it will probably double by the time hunting

701
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: season gets here. Um Again, it's figuring out not only

702
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: patterns on the deer that it currently existing, but but

703
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 1: just seeing with out there. I mean, I'll be honest,

704
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: in in that part of the country, you're expected to

705
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: see maybe some you know, does moving through at this

706
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,760
Speaker 1: time of the year, a couple of smallpox or something.

707
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: We had a bachelor group we could go show up

708
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: and one of them is started just a young two

709
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: year old. There's one buck I think that could probably

710
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: be a decent three and another one that's probably a

711
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 1: good three year old too. He was already way out

712
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: past few years with a slip brow on one side,

713
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: you know. And that was the last part of May. So,

714
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: you know, for being what I would consider pretty solid

715
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: mountain deer, I mean, there's no agg there's nothing around.

716
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: Um Now my thinking started to say, well, maybe they

717
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: are able to get some age on them, because they've

718
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 1: got so much room to roam. So can I increase

719
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: the habitat and the nutrition to now factor that piece

720
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: in and if I can, I mean Scott is a limit.

721
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: I mean I could produce a hundred and fifty or

722
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: sixty h d or potentially on that property, which will

723
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: blow a lot of people's minds around here, but they

724
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: won't know it until after the harvest. Right. That's that's

725
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: pretty exciting, just to be able to have that potential

726
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: out there though, I got believe Yeah, so yeah, absolutely,

727
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 1: you mentioned you know, possibly improving a nutrition. Typically when

728
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: you either you and you in this case starting your

729
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: own property, or when you're advising someone else who's on

730
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: a new place? Do you do? You usually go into

731
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: that first year and make habitat improvements just right out

732
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 1: the gate, just based on what you see, or do

733
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: you like to wait a hunting season, observe, learn, and

734
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,320
Speaker 1: then the next year, with that knowledge, start making changes.

735
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: I try to always look at the low hanging fruit mark.

736
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 1: I mean, really, where's where? Do I think the most

737
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 1: limiting factor is. Um habitat is one that I'm more

738
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: cautious on, just because any changes or significant changes in

739
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: the natural habitat could take multiple years to recover if

740
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 1: it's not the right move. Um. You know, food plots

741
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: is a different thing. If I say, hey, you know,

742
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 1: here's a lot life opening. It's not growing anything but

743
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: some annual you know, food during the summer ear late spring.

744
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,439
Speaker 1: Let's convert this into a fault food plot as well,

745
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: or a late season soup plot. You know That's something

746
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: and I'm a little bit you know, more apt to

747
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: pull to trigger on right away. The habitats a different beats.

748
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I look at a lot of

749
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: different things. I mean, typically you can walk into a

750
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 1: piece of property and see a brows line or clothes

751
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 1: canopy with no natural food on the ground, and and no,

752
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: pretty quick what you need to do. But then again,

753
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 1: you start going in and cutting down sixty seventy year

754
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 1: old oak trees to open up the canopy, and you

755
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: don't know how that's gonna affect the deer. You don't

756
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: know how that's going to affect the movement, um. And

757
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: and it's a significant, you know, mark on the natural habitat.

758
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: It's not gonna be fast to replace those trees if

759
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: for some reason it was the wrong move. So I

760
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,240
Speaker 1: think that you definitely have to have a good grasp

761
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: on what's going on. UM. I do think that's probably

762
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 1: the people that I've worked with and including my own property.

763
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: The first thing to do would be to increase the

764
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: natural food as well as maybe something supplemental like food plots, um.

765
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: You know. And and it's it's usually adding more food

766
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: is never a hard thing. It's just what are you

767
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: going to do to add the food? Are you gonna

768
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: do it? Prescribed fren You can open up the canopy

769
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,399
Speaker 1: or you're gonna plan a food plot. Um. A lot

770
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: of that depends on the property and a lot of

771
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: that depends on the property owner in terms of what

772
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: they're limited resources are you know, if they don't have

773
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: any equipment, We're not going in there and planting a

774
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: four acre clover plot. Um So, it definitely depends on

775
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: what they have and what the properties availability is to

776
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:27,240
Speaker 1: to increase that natural food or that supplemental food. Um

777
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 1: But you know, I think online I'll probably be fairly conservative.

778
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: I'm pretty confident in the native food, so I'll definitely

779
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: let that go through the year and see where it

780
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,399
Speaker 1: ends up. Um In the wintertime, my gut is I'm

781
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 1: actually probably gonna be pulling in a lot of deer

782
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: and have the potential to really put a put a

783
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: negative effect on my natural habitat over time. UM So,

784
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,839
Speaker 1: I think there's there's an old mog landing that I'm

785
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 1: gonna look at doing a perennial food plot again, and

786
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: I'll have the best soil at all. In fact, most

787
00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:00,320
Speaker 1: of its old shell and and rock. Um So, gonna

788
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: try to put in something that I can get established

789
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: and only have to maintain over multiple years. It's it's

790
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 1: definitely not the type of soil that you want to

791
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: come in and after disc or kill every year, because

792
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 1: it's gonna get nasty after a couple of years, you're

793
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: basically going to lose all your top soil. So in

794
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 1: that type of situation, what do you think of the

795
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,399
Speaker 1: perennial clover probably or something else. Yep, definitely, that's that's

796
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: what I think. I'll go in with the perennial clover. Um.

797
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: I typically in the first year and want to have

798
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,439
Speaker 1: an annual clover in the mix just because it's gonna

799
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: grow a little bit faster and established itself ahead of

800
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,720
Speaker 1: the perennial um. And that's more more for erosion control

801
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: of anything um, but definitely keeping ahead of the brows

802
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: line for the deer um. So I'll probably have that,

803
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: and then you know, I may let that reseat out

804
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: of first year or something, but then just maintain it

805
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 1: for the next three or four years as a perennial clover.

806
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 1: Every once in a while, depending on what it looks like,

807
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: I could go in there and you know, broadcast some

808
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: kind of graphica or sugar beet or something like that

809
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: in it if I think just the late season needs

810
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: some additional forge. But I still think you can't go

811
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,240
Speaker 1: wrong with the perennial clover as long as you maintain

812
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 1: it correctly. Yeah, So on the food plot topic. Given

813
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,280
Speaker 1: the fact you've worked with a number of people all

814
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 1: across the country, it sounds like, Wow, if there's any

815
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: main issue or mistake that you see a lot of

816
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 1: people make when it comes to food plots, what would

817
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:28,399
Speaker 1: that be so first and foremost, And it's always it's

818
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: a topic that we deal with every day. We're involved

819
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 1: with a couple of different food plot companies and and

820
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 1: one of those is a company called Deer Grow that

821
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: we started about three years ago. But taking soil samples

822
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 1: um no matter where you are, I don't I don't

823
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: care if you're in the river bottoms of Iowa. Having

824
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 1: that knowledge of what the soil current status is and

825
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: and really more so what the plants are gonna need.

826
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,879
Speaker 1: I mean, we think about the soil and amending the

827
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 1: soil to appeal to the plant, but a lot of

828
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,439
Speaker 1: times it depends on what plant you're putting in. It's

829
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 1: a big difference between putting corn in there, which is

830
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,720
Speaker 1: gonna suck the soil drive nitreg in, and putting flood

831
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: beans in, which is gonna fix nitrogen um. So. I

832
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,879
Speaker 1: think that's probably one of the biggest misses out there,

833
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 1: is taking a soil sample, even on a food plot,

834
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:22,919
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's Nebraska oats, clover. Um, that's that's

835
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: a big factor. Along with that though, and likely what

836
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: I would say the biggest mistake made is not putting

837
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 1: a food plot enclosure or explosure cage on it to

838
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:40,280
Speaker 1: see what the food plots potential was without deer browsing. Um.

839
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,760
Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure you've seen and how many times

840
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: you walk up to the food plot and somebody says, well,

841
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: you know, seed failed or weather it was bad, And

842
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: you know, nine times out of ten it was because

843
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: the deer just mode it to the ground. And if

844
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: you had a cage on it, you'd be able to

845
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: look inside there and see, you know, six sade inch

846
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 1: beautiful clover and on the outside bear dirt because they

847
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: get down to the ground. Um. I think that's a

848
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: huge indicator, and it's something that far too often is

849
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: overlooked by food plotters today. That's a great point. Now,

850
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 1: I think I remember seeing when you were doing some

851
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: of the work with Cabela's, you were doing some food

852
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: plot work over on Bill Winky's properties. That right absolutely

853
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 1: did a lot of food plots on Bill's property. So

854
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 1: I'm just kind of curious from like a fan of

855
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: Bill Winky's deer hunting success out there, what what kind

856
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 1: of food plot system did you guys have in place there?

857
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: What was he doing and why why were you guys

858
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,479
Speaker 1: doing that? You know, Bill had a really good food plot.

859
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: First of all, he did one of my favorites, which

860
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 1: is he planted a lot of summer crops and he

861
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: left them up all year long. And I know, for

862
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,840
Speaker 1: for most of the people out there, anybody that harvest

863
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: the yield and thinks about Ireland and leaving you know,

864
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: soy being their corn up for deer probably is is

865
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: just shaking their head. But you know, it was an

866
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: amazing thing. I mean, that's probably one of the biggest

867
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 1: things that I do. I love planning, especially soybeans. I

868
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,320
Speaker 1: love planning soybeans in the summer, having that protein available

869
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: all summer for you know, growing bucks but also fawns

870
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 1: and does black hating um. And then you kind of

871
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:14,919
Speaker 1: taper off, you know, as you get into that first

872
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 1: part of the season when eight corns start falling, and

873
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 1: then about you know, at least in most of my

874
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: areas that have dealt with and around mid November to

875
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: late November through the end of the year and even

876
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: in the early spring. Having that ability to have you know,

877
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 1: pods above the snow line um through where food is

878
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 1: so scarce, it's an amazing source of nutrition UM. And

879
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,280
Speaker 1: that was one thing that Bill did very well, leaving

880
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 1: leaving those crops standing and in small sections too. It

881
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 1: wasn't that he left sixty acre fields available for him,

882
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 1: you know, he he had smaller section in some areas

883
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: he did harvest um. And then he had a very

884
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:58,320
Speaker 1: good balance of fall annuals um. Typically we would we

885
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 1: would plan a lot of uh graptica's um, you know,

886
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: a lot of turnips in the ground UH and then

887
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:09,760
Speaker 1: having perennials. He had have perennial clover and in certain areas,

888
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,879
Speaker 1: so his balance was good. At what Bill was really

889
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 1: smart with was some of the areas were that were

890
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: the most hard to access um during hunting even but

891
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 1: really just in general, he would always put in a

892
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 1: in a good perennial and he knew that he could

893
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: leave that down there and even if he didn't get

894
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 1: down there to manage it very well, there would always

895
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 1: be a good food source year round in those spots.

896
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: And and we saw that in an area he called

897
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 1: the tube um where he killed the four bucks a

898
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. That block would just hang down

899
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: there in that clover uh all the time, and it

900
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 1: was a space that basically you did not want to

901
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,399
Speaker 1: have to go into. So to think that he could

902
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 1: stay out of there, you know, through the summer, knowing

903
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: that was his range, you know, maybe look for sheds

904
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 1: everyone you know in the winner for a little bit,

905
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 1: but just stay out of that area and know that

906
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:05,879
Speaker 1: there will be an intrusion down there to hold him

907
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,800
Speaker 1: in that area. I thought that was a really smart

908
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: plan by him. But I love Bill's aggressiveness on the

909
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 1: on the summer plots for literally the entire hunting season.

910
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: I mean, how many times you seem hunting overstanding beans

911
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 1: are corn? Probably more than overfall annuals. Yeah, Yeah, that's

912
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: it's awesome. We'll have that to a situation where he's

913
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 1: able to do that and have the equipment and have

914
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: the land everything. And one of the things I always

915
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: you know, I gotta believe one of the challenges of

916
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: it's a good problem to have, I guess, but one

917
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 1: of the channels when you have as much land is

918
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: he might have in the ability to put in as

919
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: much food. The trick is how do you hunt large

920
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 1: food sources or all these different food sources. You know,

921
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: it's kind of easy when you're on a fourty acre

922
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 1: piece and you've got one half acre food plot. Well,

923
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: you know that if you hunt that little food plot,

924
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: there's gonna be some you know, you're gonna be within

925
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: shooting range or something like that. But when you're in

926
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 1: a situation like Bills, it seems like there's a lot

927
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: more thought has to go into how you design those

928
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: food plots or how you know when to hunt which one.

929
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 1: Did you see anything while you're working with him that

930
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,760
Speaker 1: that was kind of eye opening about how he designed

931
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: these food plots or anything like that. You know, I

932
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: think one of Build's toughest challenges and something that people

933
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 1: probably didn't even realize. I mean, he had a ton

934
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: of food plots on the property, um and very strategically placed.

935
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 1: But one of the things he did throughout the early

936
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:29,359
Speaker 1: years of the farm is he did timberstand improvement through

937
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: the entire farm, and actually some of the places he

938
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: was on the second round, he had more natural vegetation

939
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,800
Speaker 1: and food than almost any other property I've ever seen,

940
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 1: and it made it. I think it actually made it

941
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 1: more difficult to hunt because the deer had so much

942
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 1: natural food that didn't really fill the pressure to have

943
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: to come out and do any of these food sources,

944
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: whether it was an annual food plot or summer food plot,

945
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: um you know. And I think that was one of

946
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 1: the reasons that he could keep deer or so many

947
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: mature bucks on his property at a given time was

948
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: because of the betting area. I mean, yeah, it was

949
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 1: a huge piece of property, but a deer didn't have

950
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 1: to move, he had water, he had shelter and native food,

951
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: he had you know, supplemental food in the food plots. Um.

952
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 1: You know. It was such a such a different type

953
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: of property than you're used to seeing in that area. Um.

954
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: So I thought that was that was one thing that

955
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 1: he really had to overcome and to do that. You know,

956
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 1: we we saw him getting more and more aggressive into

957
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 1: these microplots or these poor man plots. I think it

958
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: was a neat thing to show these people that who

959
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 1: didn't have equipment, how you can make a quality food plot.

960
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 1: But it was also because we were getting in some

961
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 1: of these areas closer to betting areas that you you

962
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 1: probably weren't going to get that much equipment into UM

963
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 1: and you didn't need to make a full acre plot.

964
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,800
Speaker 1: He only needed a core aker or less, just because

965
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 1: you were trying to slow them down moving from a

966
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 1: betting area or these natural food areas into a destination

967
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 1: food plot, which could be one of these larger crop buields. Yeah, yeah,

968
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 1: that that uh. I love the fact that he showed that,

969
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, because it does show people that they can,

970
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 1: you know, still get a food plot and it still

971
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 1: can be effective. You don't need huge food plots to

972
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: enjoy benefits of a food plot. It might be a

973
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 1: different benefit. You know, a core rack or food plot

974
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 1: isn't going to make the nutritional difference that a you

975
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,319
Speaker 1: know that twenty acres of food plots would make, but

976
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: you still can you still can see benefits UM. But

977
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: I want to take a step back to something else

978
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 1: you said there. You mentioned the fact that in these

979
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 1: sections these deer didn't need to move very far because

980
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 1: they had great food, great cover and water. And water

981
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: is something that doesn't get discussed a whole lot, I

982
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,240
Speaker 1: think because in many situations it is kind of a given.

983
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 1: But do you ever find yourself on properties where that

984
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: is a limiting factor and you do need to supplement

985
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 1: it somehow. Or is that something that you know people

986
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: will worry about too much. Maybe putting in water holes

987
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 1: and stuff is overboard. What do you think about that.

988
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 1: You know, we we've done some testy recently. We actually

989
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,359
Speaker 1: just did a video um that we're gonna put out

990
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: here not too long from the Buck Advisors on on

991
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 1: building a water hole. And we've got some cameras around it.

992
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: You know. We we dealt with kind of a mix

993
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 1: of both. Um. You know, a lot of these areas

994
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 1: in the Midwest and Northeast and even the South. You know,

995
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 1: you get these seasonal water areas. You know, it could

996
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 1: be a really nice creek, but by the time you

997
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 1: get into July August, the thing, if you're not getting rain,

998
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: it's going bone dry now, you know. Fortunately, so far

999
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 1: this summer it's it's so wet, almost too wet early

1000
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 1: into the summer through a lot of the Midwest into

1001
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 1: the Northeast. But I do think that it becomes something

1002
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 1: of a of a limiting factor, um as you get

1003
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 1: into the later part of the summer and early fall.

1004
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 1: Now to go to the extent of putting in a

1005
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: water hole or anything like that. It's hard to say.

1006
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, a deer could cover you know,

1007
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty acres pretty easily as we get

1008
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: into that later part of the summer if it needs to. Um.

1009
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 1: That said, you know, it's one of those things that

1010
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of like a human you know, you

1011
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:06,800
Speaker 1: can go without food for quite a while. Water is

1012
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 1: a different story. Here gets most of its water um

1013
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 1: when it's consuming it's natural plants. So you know, as

1014
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 1: long as the water quality is in the plants, um,

1015
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 1: then it's not as big of a factor. Um. But

1016
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:23,319
Speaker 1: if we get into a drought condition like we've had

1017
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: a couple of years, uh in the last five, then

1018
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: that that starts to be a bigger red flag for me.

1019
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:32,280
Speaker 1: And and having supplemental water, I mean, I've been granted

1020
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,919
Speaker 1: do it um on his properties with good success. Um.

1021
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 1: I've got other people kind of you know, work with

1022
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 1: these seasonal water sources to create some standing ponds. Um.

1023
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:47,320
Speaker 1: I'm up in the air on it. And and really

1024
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 1: the big thing for me, Mark is the fact that

1025
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 1: when you create these watering holes and stuff, you stand

1026
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:56,319
Speaker 1: to create mud flats, which can promote the midges that

1027
00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 1: transmit uh hemorrhadic disease, and obviously everybody's been familiar with

1028
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,839
Speaker 1: that in the last few years. Um So, I've been

1029
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 1: on a big stance of minimizing mud flats. So you know,

1030
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:11,359
Speaker 1: with that, if you can control the mud flats and

1031
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 1: and put in a decent water holes, and I'm all

1032
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,280
Speaker 1: for it. If do you think you're going to create

1033
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 1: more exposed mud flats. If it's a drought year, um

1034
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: and you're having mud flats exposed, the odds of you

1035
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: having him rhagic on your property are probably pretty good.

1036
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:27,879
Speaker 1: Um So, I just surely don't want to create any

1037
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: more breeding grounds than already naturally exists. Yeah, that's really

1038
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 1: interesting point. I had not thought of that, But I

1039
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 1: know more and more, especially like you mentioned back in

1040
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: two thousand and twelve and with the horrible h D

1041
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 1: outbreaks we had across most of the country, more and

1042
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 1: more people are starting to think about, you know, how

1043
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:48,800
Speaker 1: can I start to in some way managed to minimize

1044
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 1: the impact of h D if it is hit again.

1045
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:52,920
Speaker 1: Um And that seems to be pretty It seems like

1046
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 1: a pretty smart thing to think about. If that's something

1047
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,359
Speaker 1: you're concerned about. Is there anything else that you can

1048
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 1: think of or that you've she thought about when it

1049
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 1: comes to trying to minimize the potential for h D

1050
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 1: other than just minimizing those mud flats. You know, as

1051
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 1: much as I love having mineral blocks out, you know,

1052
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 1: to me, it's more of an attractive thing than a

1053
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: nutritional standpoint. Obviously, there's there's some benefits to the to

1054
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 1: the micro nutrients and some of these blocks, I mean

1055
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 1: at this time of the year, and just salt is

1056
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 1: something that's a great thing to be able to supplement

1057
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 1: UM when deer consuming a lot higher water content. But

1058
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 1: you know, anytime you congregate these animals into a smaller area,

1059
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 1: whether it's a feeder or mineral block or a watering hole,

1060
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 1: the fact is you you kind of increase the opportunity

1061
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: for transmitting UM diseases. You know, in in the case

1062
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: of pemorragic, closer density of the deer is gonna increase

1063
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 1: the opportunity for blood mills to be taken by these

1064
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:57,360
Speaker 1: female midges. So I think that you know, in times

1065
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:01,799
Speaker 1: of knowing, and honestly, I wrote an article I don't know,

1066
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 1: it's got to be four or five months ago UM,

1067
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 1: and I think It appeared in one of the more

1068
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 1: recent Deer and Deer Hunting one's on would this be

1069
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 1: a hemorrhadic outbreak? Here? And And to this day, I

1070
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:17,880
Speaker 1: still think that we're teating ourselves up for a really

1071
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 1: bad year. It's been a very wet spring. It's continued

1072
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:24,320
Speaker 1: into the first part of the June. If it heats

1073
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 1: up and the water shuts off, I don't I don't

1074
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 1: think it's going to be good for a lot of

1075
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:33,240
Speaker 1: people across the Midwest in the Northeast. And so you're saying,

1076
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 1: and let me see if I understand this, You're you're

1077
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 1: saying that would be the case because you've got so

1078
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 1: much water now that you've created essentially what will be

1079
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 1: larger mud flats once the drought hits in July or

1080
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,839
Speaker 1: August and all that dries up, leaving this exposed mud

1081
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 1: a lack of water, and you've got more deer moving

1082
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 1: to the areas where those fewer water sources are, and

1083
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:55,839
Speaker 1: then all these exposed mud flats which allow a lot

1084
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 1: of midges. Is that is that right right on the head? Yeah?

1085
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 1: And I'm mean it's that is exactly the conditions that

1086
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 1: we dealt with in twelve that led to I mean

1087
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 1: a massive outbreak. We had a very wet spring, we

1088
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 1: formed all these basically seasonal water pools. As we hit

1089
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 1: the drier summer months, they all evaporated up, leaving these

1090
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 1: big mud plus find the ponds and pools that were

1091
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 1: less congregated deer around it because we were essentially in

1092
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 1: drought conditions and the result was, you know, massive deer

1093
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 1: die off across many states um to this day, I mean,

1094
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 1: harvest are still suffering from those bottlenecks. So you know,

1095
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:38,520
Speaker 1: it's I here, you know, I open all. I hope

1096
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 1: that it stays wet and moist all year and the

1097
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 1: next thing we know, it's September and we don't have

1098
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 1: to worry about it because we started hitting frosts. Um.

1099
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 1: But it seems like we're teaming up for something that

1100
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 1: could not be at a worse time for some of

1101
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 1: these states that are already suffering from and thirteen outbreaks. Yeah, jee,

1102
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 1: I hope that's not the case, because yeah, we're just

1103
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 1: starting to see some of those states now get to

1104
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 1: be you know, four years out and hopefully starting to

1105
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 1: get some of those mature bucks back. And if we

1106
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 1: get hit again, that would be that would be very disappointing,

1107
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 1: I know for a lot of people. Um, a hammer

1108
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah. So kind of speaking of of deer

1109
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 1: the dear herd, I'm kind of curious about how, you know,

1110
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 1: kind of going back to your situation, either on your

1111
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 1: new farm more. I guess for anyone, um, when you

1112
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 1: first start on a property, how do you go about

1113
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 1: trying to evaluate that herd or take inventory that her

1114
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 1: to figure out you know, Okay, what kind of bucks

1115
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 1: do I here? What types of what's the structure, what's

1116
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 1: the age structure, etcetera, etcetera. You know, what are the

1117
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 1: things you're looking for? And then how do you go

1118
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 1: about looking for that stuff? I would say that's probably

1119
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 1: the number one thing I do is always go to

1120
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 1: my cameras. I mean, you know, it's great to scout

1121
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 1: and be out in the woods and you know, or fields,

1122
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: and I love being out there, but you know, efficiently

1123
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 1: wise and vampire wise, it's just not something that's gonna

1124
00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 1: gonna pan out. Um, cameras are using tool to be

1125
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 1: out there seven for us, and you know, so setting

1126
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 1: cameras up and doing a camera survey and whether it's

1127
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 1: an official camera survey, and you do the analysis and

1128
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 1: you try to extrapolate data and stuff. That's that's a

1129
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 1: whole different ball game. I mean really just getting out

1130
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 1: even doing what I'm doing. I've got five cameras on

1131
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 1: thirty eight years, which if you look at most of

1132
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 1: the tro camera survey research that says one for one,

1133
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 1: one for two hundred, I should be capturing every deer

1134
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 1: within you know, a seventy or radius. Um. It's just

1135
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 1: a it's trying to get a snapshot of what the

1136
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 1: herd looks like. And kind of to me, especially this

1137
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 1: time of the year, if you're you're getting decent bucks

1138
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 1: on the camera. And it's not to say I mean

1139
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 1: we're basically rate at that end of spring summer home range,

1140
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 1: um Peece. You know things are gonna change here as

1141
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 1: we get into the fall. You know, home range are

1142
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 1: gonna change, Deer gonna disperse, um. But if you've got

1143
00:59:57,040 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 1: some deer on your property at this time, and if

1144
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 1: you've got some bucks that are starting to look pretty good,

1145
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:04,400
Speaker 1: there's a really good chance that you'll at least see

1146
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 1: those deer early into hunting season. Um. And that's the

1147
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 1: one thing that's excited to me about this place is

1148
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:12,560
Speaker 1: I've seen, you know, several different bucks and a couple

1149
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 1: bucks that actually could stand to be something this year,

1150
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 1: especially in a state like Pennsylvania. And you know, I

1151
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:22,440
Speaker 1: think that the potential to see those deer early in

1152
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 1: the hunting season exists. So cameras is probably my easiest play. Plus,

1153
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 1: I mean just sitting there and being able to study

1154
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:32,440
Speaker 1: a photograph um or a video. You know, having a

1155
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 1: camera video mode is is something that's a huge advantage

1156
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 1: to us nowadays as hunters. And that still I do

1157
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 1: like to go through and do my buck to doo ratio. Um.

1158
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 1: You know, I like to take on a bigger properties

1159
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 1: on leases and stuff. I'll look at the actual density

1160
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 1: and think about how many deer, how many does I

1161
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 1: need to take out at least on my thirty acre piece.

1162
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 1: I'm not too worried about it this year. I am

1163
01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 1: concerned that there's gonna be a big section of deer

1164
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:01,960
Speaker 1: coming in in the winter time because of the natural

1165
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 1: browse that this property has versus around it. So then

1166
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 1: that begs the question of, you know, do I need

1167
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:11,040
Speaker 1: to harvest more deer on thirty acres because I'm sucking

1168
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 1: so many in uh And if I do how do

1169
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 1: I do that without you know, putting too much pressure

1170
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 1: on the property to you know, basically ruin it for

1171
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 1: multiple seasons that come. So it depends on the situation.

1172
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 1: But I don't think anybody can go wrong with using cameras.

1173
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 1: Whether you use bait or attractant, that's kind of a

1174
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 1: personal decision, um. But using those as you're scouting tools.

1175
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 1: I mean, daily life is pretty busy, and those things

1176
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 1: do a pretty good job of being able to keep

1177
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 1: you up to date almost going on out there. So

1178
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 1: do you do you think that the average guy girl

1179
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 1: should be trying to perform more of an analysis from

1180
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 1: the trail cameras? So maybe your average person right now

1181
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 1: probably just looks at those pictures just see, hey, is

1182
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 1: there a big buck? And is that big buck around

1183
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:58,440
Speaker 1: my tree stand? Should we all be actually looking at

1184
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:01,959
Speaker 1: density and age, structure and bucket of ratio and stuff

1185
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 1: like that. I think it depends on your goals. I mean,

1186
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 1: if you want to be able to you know, see

1187
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:12,040
Speaker 1: or have the ability to hunt bigger deer or even

1188
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:14,880
Speaker 1: in some places, you know we just talked about more

1189
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 1: deer than Yeah, you need to be critical. I mean,

1190
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 1: one of the things I remember doing in thirteen is

1191
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:24,480
Speaker 1: you know, most hunters, even in areas that were stricken

1192
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 1: by e h D. There was, at least the Missouri areas,

1193
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 1: there were some low acorn crops, so a lot of

1194
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 1: the deer were very visible in food plots and people

1195
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 1: hunted the herd as if nothing happened that late summer

1196
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 1: early fall, and they camereed the deer. And so now

1197
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 1: you had a harvest that was pretty aggressive on top

1198
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 1: of an e h D which was probably the worst

1199
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 1: that the state had ever recorded. And so it makes

1200
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 1: sense that the next season it was like where the

1201
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 1: deer at UM. And one thing I always try to

1202
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 1: tell people, and doesn't matter if they own a housing

1203
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:03,080
Speaker 1: acres or ten acres, is just because you know it's

1204
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 1: legal to shoot four or five, six, seven does, doesn't

1205
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 1: mean that it's appropriate for your property. You know, every

1206
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 1: property is different in its own right. UM. So yeah,

1207
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:14,040
Speaker 1: the state may say, hey, you can shoot five does

1208
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 1: on your property if you want, But if you know

1209
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:19,160
Speaker 1: you're not seeing dose on the property, they don't exist

1210
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 1: on the property, then why would you go out there

1211
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:23,520
Speaker 1: in carves five just because the state said it was

1212
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 1: legal to Um, it's a case by case basis that

1213
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 1: really is a big, big play on that. So I

1214
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 1: don't know if necessarily everyone needs to. I mean the

1215
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 1: family that loves to hunt, they you know, want to

1216
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 1: have to meet for the freezer. The kids, it's an experience.

1217
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 1: I don't think they need to be out there analyzing it.

1218
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 1: I think it's a great educational tool. Um. You know,

1219
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 1: I'm all for having older age structure bucks. Um. But

1220
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:51,360
Speaker 1: at the same time, you know, when when it's time

1221
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 1: for my child to hunt, if he wants to shoot

1222
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 1: the first one horn spike that comes through, let him

1223
01:03:55,760 --> 01:04:00,040
Speaker 1: do it. So you know, it's it's it's different for

1224
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 1: different people, but if anyone is thinking about managing the herd,

1225
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 1: and absolutely you should at least take it in more

1226
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:11,880
Speaker 1: consideration than a passerby of I'm only scrolling through the

1227
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 1: next five thousand pictures looking for big anglers. Um, there's

1228
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 1: a lot more to it that you can see and

1229
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 1: learning the pictures that not only will make you a

1230
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 1: better deer manager, but I think will make you a

1231
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 1: better hunter at the end of the day. Yeah. So,

1232
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 1: so you talked about figuring out how many doughs to kill,

1233
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:29,080
Speaker 1: and this is a question I think a lot of

1234
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 1: people have. Is there any relatively easy, consistent way for

1235
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 1: someone to determine the right number of does to kill

1236
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 1: on their property or do they need to do a

1237
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:43,880
Speaker 1: really in depth trail camera inventory, figure all that kind

1238
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:48,919
Speaker 1: of stuff out. I mean, you know, to be accurate. Yeah,

1239
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 1: they probably need to do a survey. My biggest kind

1240
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:56,480
Speaker 1: of factor I look at is if I think about

1241
01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 1: in the times that deer of the least amount of

1242
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 1: food available. So as we're getting that, you know, early

1243
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:08,080
Speaker 1: midwinter period and especially into the early spring about you know,

1244
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 1: you're at about the bottom of the barrel in terms

1245
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 1: of food. And I walk around on the property and

1246
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 1: I start seeing heavy brows lines, no native foods um,

1247
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 1: you know, but lots of sign I don't even have

1248
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 1: to know what your dear density is or your buckadore

1249
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 1: ratio is to tell you you need to kill more deer,

1250
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:29,919
Speaker 1: you need to kill more doughes um. And it could

1251
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:32,360
Speaker 1: be seasonal. You know, you could look at me like

1252
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:35,120
Speaker 1: I'm crazy because in the early part of hunting season

1253
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:38,479
Speaker 1: you didn't see a deer on the property. But you what,

1254
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 1: what I always try to emphasize with people is you

1255
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:44,200
Speaker 1: have to manage your herd numbers to match the lowest

1256
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 1: amount of food in space during the year, which is

1257
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:51,120
Speaker 1: typically the early spring. So it doesn't matter if you

1258
01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 1: know you have hardly any deer early in the season,

1259
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:56,480
Speaker 1: as you get in the mid season. If at the

1260
01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 1: last part of the season into early winter or early spring,

1261
01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:03,160
Speaker 1: you have a massive amount of deer, you need to

1262
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 1: be managing your herd the rest of the year for

1263
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:08,000
Speaker 1: that number to keep that number down as as close

1264
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 1: as possible, because that's when you're going to cause the

1265
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:12,480
Speaker 1: most damage to your property, and that's when your deer

1266
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 1: going to stuff for the most. I mean, your bucks

1267
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 1: are going to come out of the winter in early

1268
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 1: spring and horrible condition. They're gonna have to put four

1269
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 1: months of resources to repairing the body before they can

1270
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:25,880
Speaker 1: even think about sudden extra nutrition to the handlers. Right,

1271
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:31,000
Speaker 1: do you think that there are any negative impacts of

1272
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 1: having too many doughs on a property, not just from

1273
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:37,200
Speaker 1: a nutrition standpoint, but on like a like a space standpoint.

1274
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 1: If you're trying to target older bucks or bigger bucks.

1275
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:43,600
Speaker 1: Have you ever found a property that is just so

1276
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 1: overwhelmed with so many doughs that you end up having

1277
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 1: fewer bucks. Wanting to hang out just because there's not space.

1278
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 1: Is that a thing? You know? I don't know if

1279
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 1: that's I think it could be. Um, you know a

1280
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:57,320
Speaker 1: property I grew up about an hour from where I

1281
01:06:57,360 --> 01:07:00,160
Speaker 1: live right now. Um, in the summertime, if i'd take

1282
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:03,160
Speaker 1: you out there, and you know, July, late July, early August,

1283
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 1: you said, at a telephone pool and watched fifty and

1284
01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:10,080
Speaker 1: you would see more bucks, more mature bucks, and probably

1285
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:11,800
Speaker 1: bucks that you would never think you're sitting in the

1286
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 1: state of Pennsylvania. Um as as the you it would

1287
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:18,320
Speaker 1: pan out that you would think it would be the

1288
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 1: greatest rut hunting spot ever. And when the rut came,

1289
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 1: it was the worst hunting ever. And it was because

1290
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:26,920
Speaker 1: there were so many doughs on the property that I

1291
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:29,560
Speaker 1: think that the bucks did not have to work to

1292
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 1: find a dough. Um. Now, you know, we saw we

1293
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:38,520
Speaker 1: saw them spread out really fast as as the season

1294
01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:42,200
Speaker 1: came in. You know, sloy beans turned then they were harvested.

1295
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:45,120
Speaker 1: Um and bucks seemed to kind of you know, vanished

1296
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 1: out besides the stray that would come through, maybe on

1297
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:49,440
Speaker 1: a hot dough. But like I said, they didn't have

1298
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:51,360
Speaker 1: to move, they didn't have to work to find does.

1299
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 1: And I think that was probably the most limiting factor.

1300
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:57,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I grew up hunting a property that was

1301
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:01,240
Speaker 1: almost non rut existent. So I remember the first time

1302
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:06,000
Speaker 1: I was in a standing, Missouri during the rut, and

1303
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 1: you know, it was like things are starting to heat up,

1304
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 1: and then I'd see a buck chase in the dough

1305
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 1: and I'm like, man, this is the rut. Because to me,

1306
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 1: that was the first time I really experienced what people

1307
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 1: would talk about when they saw the rut. And then

1308
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 1: it was like the next morning I had like nine

1309
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:22,599
Speaker 1: bucks come through chasing does. I was like, Okay, this

1310
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 1: is what the rut is, um. And so it was

1311
01:08:25,360 --> 01:08:28,280
Speaker 1: amazing for people to understand, Like when I said, you know,

1312
01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:30,519
Speaker 1: I don't even want to think about about that property

1313
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 1: during the rut, and they're like, why there's fifteen bucks

1314
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:36,519
Speaker 1: in the field at night, Well there was fifty two

1315
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:40,160
Speaker 1: doughs as well. So, um, you know, I think that's

1316
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 1: probably the biggest thing. But I do think that there's

1317
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:44,599
Speaker 1: a space factor. I mean, you think about those old

1318
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:49,360
Speaker 1: mature bucks. Outside of the rut, there there's solitude animals. Um,

1319
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:52,400
Speaker 1: you know, you don't see them very often with another

1320
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:55,280
Speaker 1: buck or dough unless it's you know, getting into that

1321
01:08:55,360 --> 01:08:57,960
Speaker 1: early coming out of a baxtor group or as we're

1322
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:01,560
Speaker 1: transitioning into the rut phase. So I do think that

1323
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:04,840
Speaker 1: there's a space factor in it, um, you know. But

1324
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:07,000
Speaker 1: I also look at some of the research that starts

1325
01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 1: to show that some of these older bucks in the five, six,

1326
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:13,559
Speaker 1: seven year old eighth class don't even move that much anymore,

1327
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:17,839
Speaker 1: you know, they're not doing the thousand the two thousand

1328
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 1: acre home ranges that a two, three or four year

1329
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:24,040
Speaker 1: old buck maybe hitting. UM. So I think that there's

1330
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 1: there's multiple cases to say, Yeah, it definitely affects it.

1331
01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:31,719
Speaker 1: To me, I would have rather have a tighter buck

1332
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:35,680
Speaker 1: the dough ratio than you know, having all these adequate

1333
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 1: does available for the rut because I don't think that

1334
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:41,280
Speaker 1: rattling works is good. I don't think that sense work

1335
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:43,639
Speaker 1: is good. I don't think that grunt calls work is good.

1336
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:47,559
Speaker 1: I think that hunting during the rut is harder. And

1337
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:50,240
Speaker 1: that's that's first hand experience from a property on it

1338
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:54,920
Speaker 1: for fifteen years that should have been theoretically a rut

1339
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:58,160
Speaker 1: hot spot to kill a big buck every year. Yeah,

1340
01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:01,720
Speaker 1: definitely increased competition for does always seems to lead to

1341
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:06,200
Speaker 1: better activity from a hunting standpoint. Absolutely. I mean the

1342
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:08,760
Speaker 1: best days in the woods I've had is when one

1343
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:11,679
Speaker 1: or two doughes have gone into Estris and there's five

1344
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:15,280
Speaker 1: to seven bucks fighting for them. I mean that, that

1345
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:17,720
Speaker 1: to me is when people when they say they've seen

1346
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:22,160
Speaker 1: rutting activity, that's what their experience when and and anybody

1347
01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 1: that hunts the rut knows that when most of the

1348
01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:28,240
Speaker 1: does are in Estris, we get that peak Estra cycle.

1349
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:32,480
Speaker 1: It's about as law as it gets in the woods

1350
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:36,160
Speaker 1: because the bucks are basically doed up. It's no different

1351
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:39,280
Speaker 1: than you know, a gobbler getting hand up in the spring. Um,

1352
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:42,479
Speaker 1: so you get that kind of lall. You know, it's

1353
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:45,439
Speaker 1: when those first few are coming in, or even towards

1354
01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:47,679
Speaker 1: the tail into the rut, when there's the last few

1355
01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:51,160
Speaker 1: coming in, that's about when you started hearing people saying, yeah,

1356
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:54,800
Speaker 1: I've been seeing bucks. Jason, Yeah, yeah, speaking of the rut.

1357
01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 1: I actually wanted to bring this up later, but I'll

1358
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 1: touch on now since we kind of segue nice nicely

1359
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 1: to it. Um. I've read some stuff from you in

1360
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:06,559
Speaker 1: regards to the rut, and UM, I believe me if

1361
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:09,080
Speaker 1: I'm wrong, but I believe when it comes to the

1362
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:11,599
Speaker 1: rut in most of the country, especially the northern part

1363
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:14,320
Speaker 1: of the country, you're in agreement with most people when

1364
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:16,600
Speaker 1: it comes to the fact that's relatively consistent due to

1365
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:19,920
Speaker 1: photo period, etcetera, etcetera. Um, I guess number one is that?

1366
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:23,439
Speaker 1: Is that true with your belief? Yeah? Yeah, if you're

1367
01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:26,040
Speaker 1: if you're leaning towards the lunar phase, then yes, I'm

1368
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:31,400
Speaker 1: a much more strong proponent of photo period guiding. Yes, okay,

1369
01:11:31,439 --> 01:11:33,400
Speaker 1: So then what my real question then was, Okay, if

1370
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:35,719
Speaker 1: that's the case in the north, I know it's different

1371
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:37,840
Speaker 1: in the South, and I think I've seen you write

1372
01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:39,800
Speaker 1: something about that in the past. Could you walk us

1373
01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:43,479
Speaker 1: through what why the southern rut is different and what

1374
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:45,400
Speaker 1: people in the South are thinking about when it comes

1375
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:47,320
Speaker 1: to trying to figure out when's the rut how to

1376
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:50,960
Speaker 1: hunt it. Absolutely, I mean it's it's a completely different

1377
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:54,800
Speaker 1: ball game. I mean it always always make a laugh

1378
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:58,240
Speaker 1: about it. I guess when I hear people talk about, well, like,

1379
01:11:58,360 --> 01:11:59,840
Speaker 1: you know, what five days do you want to take

1380
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:01,720
Speaker 1: off store in the rut? Because when I grew up

1381
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:04,800
Speaker 1: in the Northeast and living in the Midwest, there were

1382
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:06,960
Speaker 1: there are four or five six days that you know,

1383
01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:09,360
Speaker 1: if you took throws off, you were going to experience them.

1384
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:13,040
Speaker 1: Pretty crazy rud action. When I lived in Mississippi and

1385
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:15,800
Speaker 1: the guys started saying, well, you know, rut will be good,

1386
01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:18,120
Speaker 1: but you'll you'll kind of get the drift ruts. And

1387
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 1: I was like, what, you know, what are you talking about?

1388
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 1: And it was the fact that you know, one day

1389
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:25,479
Speaker 1: it could be hot and heavy, then it might be

1390
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:27,960
Speaker 1: a week before you see any other action, and then

1391
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:30,280
Speaker 1: you might see a little bit this day and nothing

1392
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:33,599
Speaker 1: the next, and then the third day it's just on fire. Um.

1393
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:39,840
Speaker 1: And so you basically see this widespread swath of rutting

1394
01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:42,160
Speaker 1: activity across a lot of the Deep South, and in

1395
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:47,680
Speaker 1: particular Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, even some parts of Georgia. You

1396
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:50,640
Speaker 1: see this kind of stretched out rut And so a

1397
01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:53,200
Speaker 1: couple of things that I've I at least with my

1398
01:12:53,320 --> 01:12:55,960
Speaker 1: research and working with a lot of the professors, I

1399
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:58,120
Speaker 1: did you know that we came up with some theories.

1400
01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:02,000
Speaker 1: You know. Number one is probably what I think is

1401
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:06,720
Speaker 1: the most proficient, is the fact that the buck the

1402
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:11,200
Speaker 1: dough ratio is throwing off some of the rutting activities.

1403
01:13:11,200 --> 01:13:13,160
Speaker 1: So in some of these areas where the buck to

1404
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:18,200
Speaker 1: do ratio is so skewed that there's actually bucks missing

1405
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:22,320
Speaker 1: dose and estris. When they basically stay in estris for

1406
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:25,280
Speaker 1: seventy two to ninety six hours, they're getting missed because

1407
01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:27,840
Speaker 1: a buck is actually occupied with another dough that's an

1408
01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:30,559
Speaker 1: estres tending to her because then it has to wait

1409
01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:34,760
Speaker 1: twenty eight days before that cycle starts again. So you

1410
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:37,559
Speaker 1: start to see where these periods if you stagger them out,

1411
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:39,960
Speaker 1: that you know every so many days there may be

1412
01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:42,799
Speaker 1: a new group of dose coming in because these bucks

1413
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 1: are basically occupied. And also a lot of the reasons

1414
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:48,920
Speaker 1: that in February March you see Southern bucks that look

1415
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:52,240
Speaker 1: like they've just been run through the ringer um because

1416
01:13:52,280 --> 01:13:55,559
Speaker 1: they're they're instead of a two week rut craze periods,

1417
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:59,559
Speaker 1: they're going to two months rut craze period um su

1418
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:01,280
Speaker 1: one of the big factors. The other thing that we

1419
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:05,320
Speaker 1: see is you don't have a definitive of growing harsh

1420
01:14:05,479 --> 01:14:09,600
Speaker 1: seasons in terms of weather and vegetation. So as we

1421
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:12,160
Speaker 1: think about the North and the Midwest, you know there's

1422
01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:15,360
Speaker 1: very definitive times of the year. I mean, obviously a

1423
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:18,880
Speaker 1: dough doesn't want to have to have a fall on

1424
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 1: early where there still could be the potential of less

1425
01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:25,960
Speaker 1: vegetation and you know, an early April potentially UM as

1426
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:28,639
Speaker 1: well as the fact that the later we go into

1427
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:32,240
Speaker 1: the season, the less nutritious, the vegetation is less cover

1428
01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:36,200
Speaker 1: very definitive in that piece. As we think about the South,

1429
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:39,280
Speaker 1: you know, we start getting spring green up in early March,

1430
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:43,800
Speaker 1: and as the season progresses, we don't have those definitive

1431
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:47,559
Speaker 1: frosts and things coming in the September even early October period.

1432
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:49,439
Speaker 1: I mean, heck, in some of those places in October

1433
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:53,320
Speaker 1: still ninety degrees, So even though the food quality may

1434
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:56,719
Speaker 1: not be as good, they're not as concerned with having

1435
01:14:57,040 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 1: the vegetation being killed off by frost and freezes. Um.

1436
01:15:01,160 --> 01:15:03,559
Speaker 1: You know, So we would see fons that would be born,

1437
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:07,519
Speaker 1: you know, in typical late May early June time period,

1438
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:10,640
Speaker 1: but I'd also see fons being born in September and

1439
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:15,280
Speaker 1: October UM, and so it's hard to place on which

1440
01:15:15,320 --> 01:15:17,360
Speaker 1: one it would be. You know, is it because they

1441
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:20,360
Speaker 1: have a more broad area that they can cover in

1442
01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:23,840
Speaker 1: terms of the growth in the seasonality, or is it

1443
01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:26,800
Speaker 1: just because the buckado ratio is so out of whack

1444
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:31,360
Speaker 1: that there are does being bred in February March April

1445
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:36,960
Speaker 1: instead of being all bred in that November December time period. Um.

1446
01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:40,600
Speaker 1: So you know, those are the ones that we looked at. Um.

1447
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:44,800
Speaker 1: The big question always remains out there, and in genetics

1448
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:47,559
Speaker 1: is kind of the dirty word and deer management. You know,

1449
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:50,360
Speaker 1: nobody wants to say that genetics are different and and

1450
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:53,439
Speaker 1: in this case it's not as much different as it

1451
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:58,840
Speaker 1: is um different from the origins of where these deer

1452
01:15:58,880 --> 01:16:02,400
Speaker 1: were coming from. Uh. So you know what we tend

1453
01:16:02,479 --> 01:16:06,559
Speaker 1: to see. Coincidentally, we see different body sizes in a

1454
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:09,400
Speaker 1: lot of these areas, especially in Mississippi, but we would

1455
01:16:09,439 --> 01:16:13,360
Speaker 1: see groups of deer within a forty or fifty mile

1456
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:19,320
Speaker 1: area having significantly different peak breeding dates. And I'm not

1457
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:21,519
Speaker 1: talking about like a couple of days. I'm talking like

1458
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:25,200
Speaker 1: a month plus different um. And so beg the question

1459
01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:28,799
Speaker 1: of how can a deer group that's fifty miles apart

1460
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 1: have a peak breeding that's a month or a month

1461
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:34,360
Speaker 1: and a half. And so you start to think about

1462
01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:39,080
Speaker 1: the restocking efforts of the nineteen hundreds deer coming from Mississippi.

1463
01:16:39,120 --> 01:16:41,760
Speaker 1: So I'm coming from Mexico. There's a large group of

1464
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:45,360
Speaker 1: deer that were brought from Wisconsin that has assumably died

1465
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:48,880
Speaker 1: from probably a hemorrhagic or something that they couldn't be

1466
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:54,680
Speaker 1: adapted to. You know, is there some lingering effect or

1467
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:58,639
Speaker 1: imprint on these deer and um. You know, we saw

1468
01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:02,360
Speaker 1: that from research of Mississippi would bring deer from different

1469
01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:04,439
Speaker 1: parts of the state and put them all in a

1470
01:17:04,479 --> 01:17:07,679
Speaker 1: captive research unit, and we would see deer that were

1471
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:11,439
Speaker 1: from the lower coastal Plain in Mississippi that typically had

1472
01:17:11,479 --> 01:17:15,160
Speaker 1: their fawns late in the year, like July, August into September.

1473
01:17:15,600 --> 01:17:18,360
Speaker 1: When we moved them two hours or three hours north,

1474
01:17:18,600 --> 01:17:22,080
Speaker 1: they still had them in July, August, September. UM, even

1475
01:17:22,120 --> 01:17:25,320
Speaker 1: though they were bred in that new area. Those deer

1476
01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:28,360
Speaker 1: from that area would typically, you know, have fawns in

1477
01:17:28,479 --> 01:17:31,040
Speaker 1: June and July. They would still have fawns in June

1478
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:34,200
Speaker 1: and July. So it was kind of weird to see that,

1479
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:37,960
Speaker 1: you know, somehow there was an imprint on these deer

1480
01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:43,080
Speaker 1: to have this timing of fawning. UM. And so, you know,

1481
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:45,840
Speaker 1: there's a lot of potential factors that could come in there,

1482
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:51,400
Speaker 1: but it definitely seemed like there was something more uh

1483
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:56,439
Speaker 1: environmentally affecting them. Um, but it also could be a

1484
01:17:56,439 --> 01:18:00,920
Speaker 1: genetic thing too. Hm. Fascinating stuff, although it sounds like

1485
01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:04,240
Speaker 1: maybe terribly frustrating for hunters in that area trying to

1486
01:18:04,280 --> 01:18:07,559
Speaker 1: figure it out for themselves. Absolutely, I mean, you know,

1487
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:10,960
Speaker 1: I still go to the fact of uh kind of

1488
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:13,479
Speaker 1: whether you're in the Northeast or you're in the Deep South.

1489
01:18:14,720 --> 01:18:16,880
Speaker 1: You know, if you if you've hunted long enough, you

1490
01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:19,599
Speaker 1: can pretty much lay a thumb down on that. You know,

1491
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:22,559
Speaker 1: running activity is going to occur around the same time

1492
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:25,360
Speaker 1: every year, you know. I know Bill is huge on

1493
01:18:25,479 --> 01:18:29,200
Speaker 1: saying how I think November seven's his favorite day, Like, hey,

1494
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:31,479
Speaker 1: if you hunt November seven, it's gonna be nail on

1495
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:33,799
Speaker 1: the head. And and you know, I've had a similar

1496
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:37,240
Speaker 1: experiences number fifth to the seventh in Missouri and Kansas.

1497
01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:41,559
Speaker 1: I've had great experience. UM. But I think you know

1498
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:46,720
Speaker 1: what determined that is not necessarily uh, you know, the

1499
01:18:46,760 --> 01:18:51,080
Speaker 1: photo period or the moon phase or genetics. It's just

1500
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:53,439
Speaker 1: the fact that you know, every year, on a fairly

1501
01:18:53,479 --> 01:18:56,559
Speaker 1: consistent basis, those deer are going to be breeding at

1502
01:18:56,600 --> 01:18:59,160
Speaker 1: that same time. That's that's their optimal time to breed,

1503
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:02,280
Speaker 1: knowing that a proximately two hundred days later, they're optimal

1504
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:05,000
Speaker 1: time to have the fawn. UM. And in the touth

1505
01:19:05,080 --> 01:19:07,880
Speaker 1: it is it's a lot less predictable. But some guys

1506
01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:10,080
Speaker 1: like that too, because then it's like, hey, instead of

1507
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:12,120
Speaker 1: two weeks and I missed the ride, I've got two

1508
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:14,439
Speaker 1: months that potentially catch this thing. In the last day

1509
01:19:14,479 --> 01:19:17,320
Speaker 1: of the season, I could still be catching running activity.

1510
01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:19,400
Speaker 1: I don't know if I necessarily think that's great for

1511
01:19:19,439 --> 01:19:22,120
Speaker 1: the bucks that are, you know, spending all that energy

1512
01:19:22,160 --> 01:19:24,400
Speaker 1: over two months, or even the fawns that are potentially

1513
01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:27,880
Speaker 1: being born in August September instead of June and July.

1514
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:33,040
Speaker 1: That's a huge disadvantage in their first year. Um, but hey,

1515
01:19:33,080 --> 01:19:36,760
Speaker 1: it is what it is, totally totally well, not off top,

1516
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:39,280
Speaker 1: I guess, but kind of digressing from where I wanted

1517
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:41,160
Speaker 1: to go. But do you just mentioned the fact that, Okay,

1518
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:43,479
Speaker 1: so in some of these areas down south, you've got

1519
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:47,280
Speaker 1: fawns being born over the course of several months, you know,

1520
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:51,400
Speaker 1: spread out. Is that a disadvantage for deer for fawn

1521
01:19:51,439 --> 01:19:53,799
Speaker 1: recruitment in the southern part of the United States compared

1522
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:56,800
Speaker 1: to the north because of that because I think what

1523
01:19:57,120 --> 01:19:59,640
Speaker 1: I think the reason why that might be. My hypothesis

1524
01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:01,599
Speaker 1: was that in the North, when you have faunds all

1525
01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:05,400
Speaker 1: dropping a relatively consistent short time span, you have this

1526
01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:09,320
Speaker 1: overload of funds, so they cannot be predated as much.

1527
01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:11,599
Speaker 1: So the coyotes have so many funds that can't kill

1528
01:20:11,640 --> 01:20:14,439
Speaker 1: them all. While you know, in the South, if you're

1529
01:20:14,439 --> 01:20:17,120
Speaker 1: spread out, you know, there's there's more price spread out

1530
01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:19,240
Speaker 1: over a longer period of time, and it allows predators

1531
01:20:19,280 --> 01:20:22,639
Speaker 1: to have a larger impact. Is that is that right? Exactly? Yep,

1532
01:20:22,920 --> 01:20:25,760
Speaker 1: exactly it, Yeah, And I think that's always been a case.

1533
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:28,960
Speaker 1: And in the South is like you said, there's only

1534
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:31,360
Speaker 1: so many that the predators can consume in the North

1535
01:20:31,400 --> 01:20:34,080
Speaker 1: in a tight, tight time period um. And we always

1536
01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:37,639
Speaker 1: emphasize that with people that have fawn recruitment issues, like, hey, listen,

1537
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:39,360
Speaker 1: you know you may not be able to change the

1538
01:20:39,360 --> 01:20:42,880
Speaker 1: genetics or the environmental effects easier or are having, but

1539
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:46,000
Speaker 1: you can tighten up your buckido ratio to try to

1540
01:20:46,160 --> 01:20:49,200
Speaker 1: ensure that breeding occurs in a tighter time cycle. Therefore

1541
01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:53,080
Speaker 1: the fawning occurs in the tighter time cycle. Um. And yeah,

1542
01:20:53,160 --> 01:20:55,040
Speaker 1: I think as these things are stretched out, you know,

1543
01:20:55,160 --> 01:20:57,360
Speaker 1: especially as you get into the mid to later parts

1544
01:20:57,360 --> 01:20:59,680
Speaker 1: of July. In the August, you've got a couple of

1545
01:20:59,720 --> 01:21:02,439
Speaker 1: fawn dropped every day, that coyote or that bob cat

1546
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:06,400
Speaker 1: is eating every couple of days. So, um, I definitely

1547
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:10,680
Speaker 1: think that's a huge impact and probably a big advantage,

1548
01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:14,080
Speaker 1: you know, besides cover effects um that the North has

1549
01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:18,080
Speaker 1: over and the Middlewest has over the South. Interesting. Yeah,

1550
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:20,519
Speaker 1: as you said that, it just kind of spread out

1551
01:21:20,520 --> 01:21:22,960
Speaker 1: to me that while that that makes a lot of

1552
01:21:22,960 --> 01:21:24,920
Speaker 1: sense as to some of the phone recruitment issues that

1553
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:30,719
Speaker 1: you see, UM, yeah, down there typically you know, and

1554
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:33,400
Speaker 1: and a lot of that depends on timing and then

1555
01:21:33,479 --> 01:21:35,719
Speaker 1: when you're looking at it. But I would say pretty

1556
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:38,200
Speaker 1: consistently in a lot of those areas that aren't managing

1557
01:21:38,240 --> 01:21:41,439
Speaker 1: for predation, you know, you're south attent in your phone

1558
01:21:41,439 --> 01:21:44,360
Speaker 1: recruitment rates, and most of the time in the Midwest

1559
01:21:44,439 --> 01:21:48,759
Speaker 1: and then the Northeast you're probably north of UM. So

1560
01:21:49,080 --> 01:21:52,719
Speaker 1: it's it's a significant difference for sure, um. And and

1561
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:55,240
Speaker 1: even if you manage for the best habitat yes, that

1562
01:21:55,360 --> 01:21:59,640
Speaker 1: increases cover, it still plays a big, big piece of

1563
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:02,240
Speaker 1: the game in terms of the fawn recruitment and how

1564
01:22:02,280 --> 01:22:06,479
Speaker 1: heavy the predation is. But yeah, the longer the run is,

1565
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:10,519
Speaker 1: the longer the fawning season, the more increase in predation

1566
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:14,599
Speaker 1: that you're likely to see on the property. Yeah, very interesting.

1567
01:22:15,160 --> 01:22:18,080
Speaker 1: I kind of want to pivot now to actual hunting tactics.

1568
01:22:18,080 --> 01:22:21,080
Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about, you know, improving a property,

1569
01:22:21,160 --> 01:22:24,720
Speaker 1: understanding a property, how to manipulate a property, maybe how

1570
01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:27,799
Speaker 1: to understand what type of herd you have on the property.

1571
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:30,679
Speaker 1: But I want to talk about actually, you know, actually

1572
01:22:30,760 --> 01:22:33,240
Speaker 1: killing and harvesting these deer on that property, because of

1573
01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:35,880
Speaker 1: course that's our our end goal in many cases, um,

1574
01:22:36,080 --> 01:22:39,120
Speaker 1: culmination exactly. So I want to talk about two different

1575
01:22:39,160 --> 01:22:42,240
Speaker 1: situations though, um that I think you've got experience in both,

1576
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:43,760
Speaker 1: which is why I want to touch on both. One

1577
01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:46,040
Speaker 1: would be hunting, you know, a piece of private land,

1578
01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:47,800
Speaker 1: maybe a small piece of private land like what you

1579
01:22:47,840 --> 01:22:49,840
Speaker 1: now have. And then number two, I want to talk

1580
01:22:49,880 --> 01:22:53,960
Speaker 1: about public land hunting and maybe compare and contrast the two. Um. So,

1581
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:56,040
Speaker 1: I guess first, when it comes to hunting your own

1582
01:22:56,080 --> 01:22:59,360
Speaker 1: private pieces, for anyone who's owns their own piece, they've

1583
01:22:59,400 --> 01:23:01,320
Speaker 1: been doing some habit at work. Maybe they're trying to

1584
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:03,880
Speaker 1: manage it for better deer. What are some of the

1585
01:23:03,880 --> 01:23:06,920
Speaker 1: things that you've found based on your own experiences or

1586
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:09,880
Speaker 1: other people you've worked with that you know, either we

1587
01:23:09,880 --> 01:23:12,040
Speaker 1: are some of the biggest mistakes you're seeing these people make,

1588
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:13,840
Speaker 1: or what are some some of the things you've seen

1589
01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:17,240
Speaker 1: other guys or yourself do to help maximize your hunting

1590
01:23:17,280 --> 01:23:21,760
Speaker 1: success in that type of scenario. I think probably the

1591
01:23:22,680 --> 01:23:26,760
Speaker 1: biggest mistakes that I see is over hunting, um, you know,

1592
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:29,439
Speaker 1: and that that could be on a property level, um,

1593
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:32,519
Speaker 1: but likely on a stand level. And you know, anybody

1594
01:23:32,520 --> 01:23:35,679
Speaker 1: that that hunts long enough, or even you know, hunts

1595
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:38,720
Speaker 1: of specific beer long enough, and you tend to have

1596
01:23:38,840 --> 01:23:41,960
Speaker 1: that hot spot, that hot stand, that hot area, And

1597
01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:44,200
Speaker 1: you know, I think we all get wrapped up in

1598
01:23:44,200 --> 01:23:47,280
Speaker 1: the pursuit and often don't think about even if we

1599
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:51,759
Speaker 1: are using sent elimination clothing and devices and and trying

1600
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:53,800
Speaker 1: to get in and out as as quickly as we

1601
01:23:53,880 --> 01:23:57,719
Speaker 1: can and quietly as quietly as we can, the fact

1602
01:23:57,800 --> 01:24:00,240
Speaker 1: is that you've got some pressure in that area. Yeah.

1603
01:24:00,240 --> 01:24:02,360
Speaker 1: And you know, for me, it's always been those first

1604
01:24:02,360 --> 01:24:04,320
Speaker 1: couple of sits in a new spot where I feel

1605
01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:07,400
Speaker 1: like I have the most success. So, you know, hunting

1606
01:24:07,400 --> 01:24:11,400
Speaker 1: and over hunting a stand or property is probably the

1607
01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:14,960
Speaker 1: number one killer of big bucks to me, not necessarily

1608
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:16,599
Speaker 1: by the gun or by the boat, but's just the

1609
01:24:16,600 --> 01:24:19,320
Speaker 1: fact you're gonna boot them off your property and you're

1610
01:24:19,360 --> 01:24:22,840
Speaker 1: never gonna see those deer again. Um. So I think

1611
01:24:22,840 --> 01:24:25,080
Speaker 1: that's probably something that that a lot of hunters need

1612
01:24:25,120 --> 01:24:27,960
Speaker 1: to really focus on, is is strategically, how are you

1613
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:31,760
Speaker 1: going to hunt this? Um? You know, it's one of

1614
01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:34,880
Speaker 1: those things that we only have so much time. I mean,

1615
01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:39,599
Speaker 1: life is busy, um, but you you've got to be patient. Um.

1616
01:24:39,640 --> 01:24:42,719
Speaker 1: I mean that's the key. Anytime you rush something, especially

1617
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:45,720
Speaker 1: hunting on the four bucks, odds are not going to

1618
01:24:45,800 --> 01:24:49,040
Speaker 1: be in your favorite to actually you know, finish the job.

1619
01:24:49,760 --> 01:24:52,320
Speaker 1: So I think that's something that that a lot of

1620
01:24:52,320 --> 01:24:55,280
Speaker 1: people need to work on, you know, on a success standpoint.

1621
01:24:56,600 --> 01:25:01,040
Speaker 1: What's really kind of impressed me, um that they're you know,

1622
01:25:01,080 --> 01:25:04,120
Speaker 1: a seasonal based hunter, um, you know, and and just

1623
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:05,960
Speaker 1: out on the weekends or when they can or if

1624
01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:09,000
Speaker 1: they're more serious, is the fact that I see more

1625
01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:11,880
Speaker 1: and more people taking pride in the deer that they

1626
01:25:11,960 --> 01:25:15,600
Speaker 1: don't harvest um than the ones that they do. You

1627
01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:18,559
Speaker 1: know that I feel like, you know, for me, one

1628
01:25:18,560 --> 01:25:21,600
Speaker 1: of my greatest passions growing up was was going to

1629
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:24,400
Speaker 1: beer game, you know, in that tradition. And it didn't matter.

1630
01:25:24,439 --> 01:25:26,519
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody, of course wanted to shoot a box,

1631
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:28,559
Speaker 1: but at the the end of the day, it was

1632
01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:31,519
Speaker 1: just being there and and experiencing the tradition and the

1633
01:25:31,560 --> 01:25:34,400
Speaker 1: memories you make. And I see more and more people

1634
01:25:34,439 --> 01:25:36,600
Speaker 1: doing that in a little bit different manner. You know.

1635
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:38,439
Speaker 1: It used to be that you go up and it

1636
01:25:38,479 --> 01:25:41,840
Speaker 1: was more of the bonding with the tradition of hunting

1637
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:44,519
Speaker 1: and the family. Now I see it more and more

1638
01:25:44,600 --> 01:25:47,800
Speaker 1: in the in the pride of of property and and

1639
01:25:47,920 --> 01:25:51,479
Speaker 1: growing and maintaining deer and habitat and and even the

1640
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:54,240
Speaker 1: non targets. You know. One of the coolest things we've

1641
01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:58,280
Speaker 1: been seeing on our property is a whole dinner red

1642
01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:01,519
Speaker 1: fox um and it's just awesome to be able to

1643
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:05,280
Speaker 1: see these these animals going across the property knowing that,

1644
01:26:05,680 --> 01:26:08,479
Speaker 1: you know, we have a responsibility to maintain that place.

1645
01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:10,840
Speaker 1: And of course it's the same thing when when we

1646
01:26:10,880 --> 01:26:13,439
Speaker 1: see a great buck, I mean to know that that

1647
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:16,680
Speaker 1: deer is utilizing our property and to figure out, you know,

1648
01:26:16,720 --> 01:26:18,640
Speaker 1: how are we going to maintain them. You know, I

1649
01:26:18,680 --> 01:26:21,920
Speaker 1: feel like half the time I'm thinking about more protecting

1650
01:26:21,960 --> 01:26:24,040
Speaker 1: him and growing him, and then it's like, wait a minute,

1651
01:26:24,080 --> 01:26:28,320
Speaker 1: I'm I'm trying to kill the here. So it's a

1652
01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:31,520
Speaker 1: fine line, but I think it's a really neat connection

1653
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:35,599
Speaker 1: that more and more people landowners or lease's are doing

1654
01:26:36,160 --> 01:26:39,080
Speaker 1: um with the property and with the deer. Yeah, I

1655
01:26:39,080 --> 01:26:40,880
Speaker 1: can definitely relate to that. That's one of the most

1656
01:26:41,280 --> 01:26:45,400
Speaker 1: fulfilling aspects of having a property that you can consistently

1657
01:26:45,439 --> 01:26:47,920
Speaker 1: hunt or manage or if you own it even um,

1658
01:26:47,960 --> 01:26:50,839
Speaker 1: you know, being able to you know, be a steward

1659
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:53,800
Speaker 1: in some way and get to you know, see those

1660
01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:56,680
Speaker 1: deer and those animals and the wildlife flourish there and

1661
01:26:56,720 --> 01:26:58,680
Speaker 1: then ultimately you know, have some opportunities to hunt and

1662
01:26:58,760 --> 01:27:01,160
Speaker 1: kill some animals too. But it's it's pretty cool looking

1663
01:27:01,200 --> 01:27:05,120
Speaker 1: at it holistically, um and seeing everything that happens there

1664
01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:08,000
Speaker 1: and being able to be a positive influence on it

1665
01:27:08,040 --> 01:27:12,080
Speaker 1: is Uh, that's pretty gratifying. Yeah, absolutely, I think that's

1666
01:27:12,120 --> 01:27:15,160
Speaker 1: definitely the coolest part about it. And and again, you know,

1667
01:27:15,280 --> 01:27:18,120
Speaker 1: it's it's something that even if you don't succeed in

1668
01:27:18,160 --> 01:27:20,559
Speaker 1: the harvest, the fact that that dear is a good

1669
01:27:20,640 --> 01:27:22,600
Speaker 1: chance he's going to live to see another day, or

1670
01:27:22,720 --> 01:27:24,479
Speaker 1: you know, maybe you get shot by a neighbor or

1671
01:27:24,520 --> 01:27:26,760
Speaker 1: someone else, and you know, you still have to kind

1672
01:27:26,760 --> 01:27:29,080
Speaker 1: of keep your head up and think about all the

1673
01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:31,479
Speaker 1: successes you had to get that deer to where it was.

1674
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:35,160
Speaker 1: So I think that's the that's probably the biggest aspect

1675
01:27:35,240 --> 01:27:38,719
Speaker 1: on owning or releasing property that people are taking pride

1676
01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:41,080
Speaker 1: in and to me is a great success. Yeah. Now

1677
01:27:41,120 --> 01:27:43,599
Speaker 1: I want to kind of, um, I want to look

1678
01:27:43,600 --> 01:27:46,880
Speaker 1: at your situation there in Pennsylvania on your new property.

1679
01:27:47,320 --> 01:27:50,479
Speaker 1: How do you plan on hunting that farm or how

1680
01:27:50,479 --> 01:27:53,240
Speaker 1: are you thinking about going throughout the season. I'm kind

1681
01:27:53,240 --> 01:27:55,439
Speaker 1: of curious to see how your what your thought processes

1682
01:27:55,479 --> 01:27:57,640
Speaker 1: are you planning on. Do you already know where you

1683
01:27:57,680 --> 01:27:59,759
Speaker 1: want to hunt the early season and the rut and everything.

1684
01:27:59,800 --> 01:28:01,439
Speaker 1: Have you figure that out yet or are you going

1685
01:28:01,479 --> 01:28:04,559
Speaker 1: to observe and adjust or what's what's the game plan?

1686
01:28:05,720 --> 01:28:07,920
Speaker 1: You know, it's a constant chest match, especially I think

1687
01:28:07,920 --> 01:28:11,080
Speaker 1: this first year, I see us doing a lot of

1688
01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:14,280
Speaker 1: scout flash hunt at the same time, you know, getting

1689
01:28:14,320 --> 01:28:16,600
Speaker 1: into a position thinking that this is going to be

1690
01:28:16,640 --> 01:28:19,760
Speaker 1: the right spot. Um and then more than likely having

1691
01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:23,879
Speaker 1: to adjust based on observations over a couple of hunts. Um.

1692
01:28:23,920 --> 01:28:26,559
Speaker 1: You know, I definitely have my my places in mind

1693
01:28:26,680 --> 01:28:29,280
Speaker 1: that you kind of walk up to the first time

1694
01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:31,599
Speaker 1: and you just you know that there's a good chance

1695
01:28:31,640 --> 01:28:34,759
Speaker 1: this is gonna be something when when the rut comes

1696
01:28:34,920 --> 01:28:37,840
Speaker 1: or or even the early season. Um. I think the

1697
01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:40,680
Speaker 1: hardest part about our property that we're going to be

1698
01:28:40,760 --> 01:28:43,960
Speaker 1: dealing with is how are these deer going to react

1699
01:28:44,080 --> 01:28:48,000
Speaker 1: when you know, two hundred thousand plus acres of hardwoods

1700
01:28:48,080 --> 01:28:52,320
Speaker 1: start raining down? You know, acorns and beech nuts. Um,

1701
01:28:52,360 --> 01:28:55,040
Speaker 1: you know, I've got them on my place, but it's

1702
01:28:55,080 --> 01:28:58,160
Speaker 1: no different than what's stuff above. In fact that there's

1703
01:28:58,240 --> 01:29:01,559
Speaker 1: probably more uh off my property than there is on

1704
01:29:01,640 --> 01:29:04,080
Speaker 1: the property. So I don't know if we're going to

1705
01:29:04,160 --> 01:29:07,000
Speaker 1: experience a little bit of a law at that point, um,

1706
01:29:07,120 --> 01:29:09,640
Speaker 1: or maybe you know, my place is stick enough that

1707
01:29:09,680 --> 01:29:12,000
Speaker 1: it's actually gonna be the betting area and they're gonna

1708
01:29:12,080 --> 01:29:15,840
Speaker 1: be going from that area up to these big mountaintops

1709
01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:19,519
Speaker 1: where a lot of the big oak flats are. You know,

1710
01:29:19,560 --> 01:29:21,360
Speaker 1: if that's the case, now I gotta figure out how

1711
01:29:21,400 --> 01:29:23,519
Speaker 1: am I gonna hunt twenty plus acres a betting area

1712
01:29:23,600 --> 01:29:27,280
Speaker 1: without knocking the steer around. So I think, definitely the

1713
01:29:27,320 --> 01:29:30,080
Speaker 1: first year it's gonna be a learning experience, you know,

1714
01:29:30,120 --> 01:29:32,960
Speaker 1: one that will be exciting, but we'll probably be very

1715
01:29:33,040 --> 01:29:36,120
Speaker 1: cautious if anything. Um, there's a couple of food plots,

1716
01:29:36,200 --> 01:29:37,720
Speaker 1: at least one that I want to put in off

1717
01:29:37,720 --> 01:29:40,840
Speaker 1: the log landing, you know, just to establish something that

1718
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:43,519
Speaker 1: it'll be an easy one to get to um without

1719
01:29:43,680 --> 01:29:46,400
Speaker 1: disturbing too many of the deer. And I'm hoping it.

1720
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:49,080
Speaker 1: You know, my strategy for food plots, especially on a

1721
01:29:49,120 --> 01:29:52,760
Speaker 1: small farm, is always to draw them in the property.

1722
01:29:52,880 --> 01:29:55,519
Speaker 1: So I don't like putting food plots on the property lines.

1723
01:29:56,000 --> 01:29:57,920
Speaker 1: I like my deer leaving from the center of my

1724
01:29:57,960 --> 01:30:00,960
Speaker 1: property heading out. I want to them from my auto

1725
01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:05,400
Speaker 1: outside of the property in especially in a hunting scenarios.

1726
01:30:05,439 --> 01:30:08,120
Speaker 1: So that's something that I think this one will work

1727
01:30:08,120 --> 01:30:11,599
Speaker 1: out well with. But I mean it'll be a complete

1728
01:30:11,680 --> 01:30:13,880
Speaker 1: learning experience. I do think that there's a couple of

1729
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:16,599
Speaker 1: areas that will be you know, kind of that standard

1730
01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:19,960
Speaker 1: tree spot tree stand spot that will likely lead to

1731
01:30:20,040 --> 01:30:22,760
Speaker 1: some sightings. The fact that I just I don't know

1732
01:30:22,880 --> 01:30:26,120
Speaker 1: went um. You know, we may not see hardly any

1733
01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:29,600
Speaker 1: deer until you know, the end of the November December

1734
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:33,599
Speaker 1: when we start getting into these year feeding on natural

1735
01:30:33,640 --> 01:30:36,280
Speaker 1: browse um or we could have them like right now,

1736
01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:38,960
Speaker 1: we've got bachelor groups moving through. I just don't know

1737
01:30:39,080 --> 01:30:42,120
Speaker 1: how far and where they're coming from. Um, But I

1738
01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:44,400
Speaker 1: think that's probably the fun part about it is is

1739
01:30:44,439 --> 01:30:47,559
Speaker 1: going to be learning these behaviors and and strategies. There

1740
01:30:47,560 --> 01:30:50,200
Speaker 1: will be for sure, there will be more failures in

1741
01:30:50,200 --> 01:30:53,360
Speaker 1: the first year than there'll be successes. But that's just

1742
01:30:53,439 --> 01:30:55,840
Speaker 1: kind of how it goes. That's that's the truth. Like

1743
01:30:55,840 --> 01:30:59,320
Speaker 1: you said, that's the fun part figuring it out. So

1744
01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:02,000
Speaker 1: so shift now to the other type of hunting that

1745
01:31:02,080 --> 01:31:04,759
Speaker 1: I think I've seen you do in the past, I believe,

1746
01:31:04,840 --> 01:31:07,120
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, But I think you have

1747
01:31:07,240 --> 01:31:10,120
Speaker 1: had a number of really good encounters recently hunting public

1748
01:31:10,200 --> 01:31:15,440
Speaker 1: land and you've killed several good bucks. Um, that's right, correct, Yep, yep, absolutely,

1749
01:31:15,479 --> 01:31:18,920
Speaker 1: I mean I love hunting public land. It's um. It

1750
01:31:19,080 --> 01:31:21,439
Speaker 1: was kind of a forced passion, I guess to start

1751
01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:24,280
Speaker 1: when when I was in college and moving around and

1752
01:31:24,280 --> 01:31:27,639
Speaker 1: and not having private land to hunt, so you kind

1753
01:31:27,640 --> 01:31:30,160
Speaker 1: of left with what you got. And I'm not gonna

1754
01:31:30,439 --> 01:31:34,080
Speaker 1: stop hunting. So for a public land was the the opportunity,

1755
01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:38,559
Speaker 1: and um boy, it's a different challenge, it's a different beast.

1756
01:31:38,560 --> 01:31:40,840
Speaker 1: I know that it can be frustrating. I mean there's

1757
01:31:41,640 --> 01:31:45,479
Speaker 1: there's been times, uh in Mississippi hunting public land that

1758
01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:48,599
Speaker 1: I would go, I don't even know, ten twenty hunts

1759
01:31:48,640 --> 01:31:53,920
Speaker 1: without even seeing a deer. Um. So you talk about discouraging, Yeah,

1760
01:31:54,960 --> 01:31:58,200
Speaker 1: it's it's definitely the low of lows. But I think

1761
01:31:58,240 --> 01:32:00,800
Speaker 1: when you finally start to get on the year, um,

1762
01:32:00,960 --> 01:32:03,360
Speaker 1: that the successes are great. I mean, you know, I've

1763
01:32:03,360 --> 01:32:06,640
Speaker 1: harvested my fair care deer on public land and and

1764
01:32:06,680 --> 01:32:09,360
Speaker 1: have had some encounters. I mean I've I've killed deer

1765
01:32:09,400 --> 01:32:11,840
Speaker 1: that we're that we're poping young and over on on

1766
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:16,559
Speaker 1: public land in Missouri. Um, I've encountered deer that we're

1767
01:32:17,160 --> 01:32:21,240
Speaker 1: you know, probably given boone and crocketter run. Uh. And

1768
01:32:21,320 --> 01:32:23,960
Speaker 1: it's amazing to think that some of those deer on there.

1769
01:32:23,960 --> 01:32:28,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I still think, probably to this day, my

1770
01:32:28,280 --> 01:32:31,760
Speaker 1: best harvest on a public land was a dough in

1771
01:32:31,840 --> 01:32:35,840
Speaker 1: Missouri I killed with my muzzle order, um, four years ago,

1772
01:32:36,600 --> 01:32:39,240
Speaker 1: um that we sent off to met Since to have

1773
01:32:39,400 --> 01:32:42,040
Speaker 1: the Cementum Annualize tested and it was it came back

1774
01:32:42,080 --> 01:32:44,200
Speaker 1: as an A plus rating for a fifteen year old

1775
01:32:44,240 --> 01:32:48,400
Speaker 1: deer um. And you think about, how did a fifteen

1776
01:32:48,479 --> 01:32:53,000
Speaker 1: year old doe survive that long on public land? Um,

1777
01:32:53,120 --> 01:32:55,640
Speaker 1: and and what did she see and what did she

1778
01:32:55,760 --> 01:32:58,280
Speaker 1: go through? And and I think that was one of

1779
01:32:58,360 --> 01:33:01,880
Speaker 1: the challenges. Um it No, it's it's a whole different

1780
01:33:01,880 --> 01:33:05,280
Speaker 1: breed of hunting. I mean talking about running gun, I

1781
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:09,080
Speaker 1: mean both seasons obviously a lot different than gun season. Um.

1782
01:33:09,200 --> 01:33:11,200
Speaker 1: You know, there's some places that are great. I mean

1783
01:33:11,280 --> 01:33:13,640
Speaker 1: Missouri when I started was one of those states that

1784
01:33:13,760 --> 01:33:16,880
Speaker 1: was was unbelievable. And then we had e h D

1785
01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:20,200
Speaker 1: outbreaks and it it through a curve and pretty much

1786
01:33:20,200 --> 01:33:22,479
Speaker 1: to the rest of my hunting strategy for the entire

1787
01:33:22,520 --> 01:33:25,800
Speaker 1: time I lived there. Um. You know, but even if

1788
01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:28,360
Speaker 1: to stay like Pennsylvania, where you know, we've got eight

1789
01:33:28,439 --> 01:33:31,679
Speaker 1: hundred thousand deer hunters. You know, I've seen a lot

1790
01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:35,040
Speaker 1: of bucks that are three plus years old. Um, it's

1791
01:33:35,040 --> 01:33:38,960
Speaker 1: just you're not gonna just go out walking under yards

1792
01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:40,800
Speaker 1: from the vehicle and sit on a food plot. You're

1793
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:43,200
Speaker 1: gonna you're gonna work for him. It's gonna take some time,

1794
01:33:43,280 --> 01:33:45,960
Speaker 1: but they're there for sure. It just takes a lot

1795
01:33:46,000 --> 01:33:48,400
Speaker 1: of homework and a lot of effort, and uh, you know,

1796
01:33:48,560 --> 01:33:50,360
Speaker 1: some people just don't want to do that, but for

1797
01:33:50,439 --> 01:33:54,000
Speaker 1: those that do, the opportunities exist. So let's say for

1798
01:33:54,040 --> 01:33:56,920
Speaker 1: a hypothetical year, Let's say you're going into this coming

1799
01:33:57,000 --> 01:33:59,960
Speaker 1: hunting season and you don't have this piece of price

1800
01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:02,000
Speaker 1: at lands you know own, you don't have any leases,

1801
01:34:02,040 --> 01:34:04,639
Speaker 1: you have nothing. You're gonna hunt public land. What does

1802
01:34:04,720 --> 01:34:08,400
Speaker 1: your process look like from finding a piece of public

1803
01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:10,880
Speaker 1: land to scouting it to actually hunting it. Walk me

1804
01:34:10,960 --> 01:34:15,439
Speaker 1: through a hypothetical year in that situation. Well, you know,

1805
01:34:16,040 --> 01:34:18,160
Speaker 1: it's kind of it depends where I'm at. So I'll

1806
01:34:18,240 --> 01:34:20,880
Speaker 1: use Missouri where I was for example, that the first

1807
01:34:20,920 --> 01:34:22,960
Speaker 1: thing usually again I go to a mass but the

1808
01:34:23,000 --> 01:34:26,240
Speaker 1: first thing I did is actually search out properties. And

1809
01:34:26,400 --> 01:34:29,160
Speaker 1: what were the hunting methods allowed? You know, being a

1810
01:34:29,160 --> 01:34:31,960
Speaker 1: guy who hunts everything from bow to muzzleoader to gun,

1811
01:34:32,040 --> 01:34:33,679
Speaker 1: I mean, I love I'm a I'm a bow hunter

1812
01:34:33,760 --> 01:34:37,080
Speaker 1: by heart. Um. You know, I know that anywhere that

1813
01:34:37,200 --> 01:34:40,479
Speaker 1: offers the opportunity to hunt archery only or archery and

1814
01:34:40,560 --> 01:34:44,280
Speaker 1: muzzleloader likely has the chance of having older age class

1815
01:34:44,320 --> 01:34:48,519
Speaker 1: bucks and those that allow rifle hunting, just simple mass

1816
01:34:48,560 --> 01:34:52,759
Speaker 1: of pressure UM from from local hunters during the hunting season.

1817
01:34:53,360 --> 01:34:56,280
Speaker 1: So I first went out and identified the areas that

1818
01:34:56,320 --> 01:35:00,680
Speaker 1: we're bow hunting only or ones that offered UM and

1819
01:35:01,040 --> 01:35:04,720
Speaker 1: muzzle literally and typically those were the areas that I

1820
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:07,160
Speaker 1: saw the best year and and had my best chances

1821
01:35:07,200 --> 01:35:10,320
Speaker 1: that the year. UM. So you know, again it's a

1822
01:35:10,400 --> 01:35:12,599
Speaker 1: game of I think the number one factor in public

1823
01:35:12,640 --> 01:35:15,280
Speaker 1: land playing pressure. You know, you can avoid the hunting

1824
01:35:15,280 --> 01:35:19,439
Speaker 1: pressure UM or use it strategically to your advantage, the

1825
01:35:19,479 --> 01:35:22,280
Speaker 1: odds of successor or at least encountering a good deer

1826
01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:26,320
Speaker 1: are are much greater UM. You know. I think as

1827
01:35:26,360 --> 01:35:30,840
Speaker 1: we get into the actual hunt itself, you know, half

1828
01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:33,559
Speaker 1: of it just luck you know, coming on it. But

1829
01:35:34,240 --> 01:35:40,320
Speaker 1: I think using using the skills of scouting UM are

1830
01:35:40,400 --> 01:35:45,080
Speaker 1: never more tested UM. Finding scrapes and and food sources

1831
01:35:45,120 --> 01:35:50,000
Speaker 1: and moving always being mobile and adjusting UM during the season.

1832
01:35:50,040 --> 01:35:51,559
Speaker 1: I mean, I had spots that I knew when I

1833
01:35:51,600 --> 01:35:53,840
Speaker 1: put a stand in it there was no way I

1834
01:35:53,880 --> 01:35:55,800
Speaker 1: was gonna hunt it year round, that that stand was

1835
01:35:55,800 --> 01:35:58,040
Speaker 1: probably gonna end up in five different trees by the

1836
01:35:58,080 --> 01:36:01,599
Speaker 1: end of the season. Um. And I think that's probably

1837
01:36:01,640 --> 01:36:03,320
Speaker 1: one of the most important things, and one of the

1838
01:36:03,360 --> 01:36:05,800
Speaker 1: things that most people don't do is you know, they'll

1839
01:36:05,880 --> 01:36:08,320
Speaker 1: they'll get into place that they've seen bucks in the past,

1840
01:36:08,360 --> 01:36:10,080
Speaker 1: and there's a good gence will run into them again.

1841
01:36:10,160 --> 01:36:13,040
Speaker 1: But you know, early season and movements are a heck

1842
01:36:13,080 --> 01:36:15,400
Speaker 1: of a lot different than rut movements, that heck a

1843
01:36:15,400 --> 01:36:18,599
Speaker 1: lot different than gun season, and then especially after gun

1844
01:36:18,640 --> 01:36:21,760
Speaker 1: season and what you know, what's left over. Um And

1845
01:36:22,160 --> 01:36:26,400
Speaker 1: I still think to this day, I've had more success

1846
01:36:26,920 --> 01:36:31,120
Speaker 1: hunting the late season, or at least more encounters hunting

1847
01:36:31,160 --> 01:36:34,800
Speaker 1: the late season on public land than I have any

1848
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:38,040
Speaker 1: other time of the year. Um. Just for the fact

1849
01:36:38,080 --> 01:36:43,360
Speaker 1: that I think deer are more predictable in their patterns. Um.

1850
01:36:43,439 --> 01:36:46,280
Speaker 1: And there's a lot less hunters limp skun season end.

1851
01:36:48,240 --> 01:36:50,920
Speaker 1: So are you finding then? I mean it seems like

1852
01:36:50,920 --> 01:36:53,160
Speaker 1: once you get into that late season, these deer obviously

1853
01:36:53,200 --> 01:36:55,840
Speaker 1: have been pressured significantly over the course of the past

1854
01:36:55,880 --> 01:36:58,720
Speaker 1: couple of months. Are you finding these deer in just

1855
01:36:58,800 --> 01:37:01,680
Speaker 1: the hardest to reach, hards to find parts of a

1856
01:37:01,680 --> 01:37:05,240
Speaker 1: public land parcel in It depends on the timing. I mean,

1857
01:37:05,240 --> 01:37:08,320
Speaker 1: if it's directly after you know, a gun season. Yeah,

1858
01:37:08,400 --> 01:37:10,720
Speaker 1: I mean they're buried in there pretty good, and you know,

1859
01:37:10,760 --> 01:37:13,040
Speaker 1: but at that time of the year, you know, deer's

1860
01:37:13,080 --> 01:37:15,640
Speaker 1: gotta move, a deer has gotta eat, so you know

1861
01:37:15,760 --> 01:37:18,760
Speaker 1: they're they're gonna be mobile. It's just finding them an

1862
01:37:18,760 --> 01:37:21,960
Speaker 1: access thing. Um. As you get later into the year

1863
01:37:22,040 --> 01:37:24,080
Speaker 1: and the pressure is eased up for you know, a

1864
01:37:24,120 --> 01:37:27,719
Speaker 1: couple of weeks, um, you start to see them moving

1865
01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:31,080
Speaker 1: back into their areas. Actually, what I think is is

1866
01:37:31,400 --> 01:37:34,800
Speaker 1: early season, I mean like summer patterns to where they're

1867
01:37:34,800 --> 01:37:37,960
Speaker 1: getting back closer to food. They're not moving nearly as much,

1868
01:37:38,439 --> 01:37:41,040
Speaker 1: you know, and it's very patternable, and that it was

1869
01:37:41,320 --> 01:37:43,519
Speaker 1: they're going to be moving probably in the early morning

1870
01:37:43,600 --> 01:37:47,120
Speaker 1: and especially in the afternoon, and that's about it. Um.

1871
01:37:47,520 --> 01:37:50,640
Speaker 1: So I think that that you kind of use it

1872
01:37:50,640 --> 01:37:53,479
Speaker 1: to your advantage and that if you knew where they

1873
01:37:53,479 --> 01:37:56,519
Speaker 1: were moving in their late summer early fall patterns at

1874
01:37:56,680 --> 01:38:00,000
Speaker 1: times the seasons rested to close, they're probably pretty darnful

1875
01:38:00,120 --> 01:38:04,280
Speaker 1: was back onto those patterns. Yeah, one of those. Uh,

1876
01:38:04,479 --> 01:38:06,760
Speaker 1: do any one of the bucks you've killed, you know,

1877
01:38:06,840 --> 01:38:09,120
Speaker 1: recently in Missouri on public land, would any one of

1878
01:38:09,120 --> 01:38:11,680
Speaker 1: them be an interesting example to walk us through how

1879
01:38:11,760 --> 01:38:19,400
Speaker 1: that actually happened. Uh, yeah, I mean you can, I guess,

1880
01:38:19,479 --> 01:38:23,000
Speaker 1: try to wear that again for me. So, yes, I'm

1881
01:38:23,000 --> 01:38:25,160
Speaker 1: just curious to hear about one of the specific bucks

1882
01:38:25,200 --> 01:38:27,599
Speaker 1: that you killed on public land, whether it be Missouri

1883
01:38:27,680 --> 01:38:29,280
Speaker 1: or one of the other places. I'd just be interested

1884
01:38:29,280 --> 01:38:32,720
Speaker 1: to hear about that specific situation, you know, how how

1885
01:38:32,760 --> 01:38:34,800
Speaker 1: you ended up sitting there, while you sat there, how

1886
01:38:34,840 --> 01:38:39,680
Speaker 1: it happened. Yeah, absolutely. So I had a place, UM

1887
01:38:40,000 --> 01:38:43,080
Speaker 1: it was actually a city owned property, UM that was open.

1888
01:38:43,120 --> 01:38:44,880
Speaker 1: It was a bill hunting program. They were trying to

1889
01:38:44,920 --> 01:38:48,480
Speaker 1: reduce the number of deer within the city limits. UM.

1890
01:38:48,600 --> 01:38:53,400
Speaker 1: And so the archery only I had scouted it. It

1891
01:38:53,479 --> 01:38:59,360
Speaker 1: was only but it had state park that was a

1892
01:38:59,400 --> 01:39:03,480
Speaker 1: border on it. So you know, there were certain areas

1893
01:39:03,600 --> 01:39:06,320
Speaker 1: that I figured deer were likely going to be in.

1894
01:39:06,520 --> 01:39:09,400
Speaker 1: And and my instinct again thinking, you know, not only

1895
01:39:09,439 --> 01:39:11,120
Speaker 1: is it bill hunting, but there's a state park that

1896
01:39:11,320 --> 01:39:14,519
Speaker 1: was not hunted at all, the potential for age structure

1897
01:39:14,680 --> 01:39:18,559
Speaker 1: was there. Um. And so I had done one of

1898
01:39:18,560 --> 01:39:20,240
Speaker 1: my and I still used to this day and my

1899
01:39:20,479 --> 01:39:23,200
Speaker 1: biggest strategies is I tried to identify the betting area

1900
01:39:23,240 --> 01:39:25,800
Speaker 1: at least close to the betting area right away, and

1901
01:39:25,760 --> 01:39:28,080
Speaker 1: then I start, you know, working my way back in

1902
01:39:28,160 --> 01:39:32,040
Speaker 1: a funnel situation, and then as the season starts, I

1903
01:39:32,080 --> 01:39:36,120
Speaker 1: get increasingly aggressive, getting closer and closer and closer to

1904
01:39:36,160 --> 01:39:38,960
Speaker 1: that betting area pretty much to when it's rout, I'm

1905
01:39:39,000 --> 01:39:41,880
Speaker 1: I'm in their wheel half, I'm in the budroom um

1906
01:39:41,960 --> 01:39:46,320
Speaker 1: at that point. And so for this this particular deer,

1907
01:39:46,680 --> 01:39:48,560
Speaker 1: there were there were two other bucks that I was

1908
01:39:48,600 --> 01:39:52,240
Speaker 1: actually after ahead of this year. There was a mature

1909
01:39:53,120 --> 01:39:58,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's probably over mature and hud deer um.

1910
01:39:58,240 --> 01:40:01,280
Speaker 1: There was a what I called a giant tent and

1911
01:40:01,320 --> 01:40:03,360
Speaker 1: at that point for public land, it was the biggest

1912
01:40:03,360 --> 01:40:05,200
Speaker 1: deer I've ever seen. It was a hundred and fifty

1913
01:40:06,040 --> 01:40:08,960
Speaker 1: a swell point and then the bluck guy ended up

1914
01:40:09,040 --> 01:40:12,719
Speaker 1: killing which was just a solid hundred seven and eight point,

1915
01:40:12,800 --> 01:40:16,439
Speaker 1: but it's probably a four year old deer. Um. He

1916
01:40:16,560 --> 01:40:22,120
Speaker 1: had been getting more and more visible um on trail camera,

1917
01:40:22,520 --> 01:40:24,160
Speaker 1: and so it was one of those deer that at

1918
01:40:24,200 --> 01:40:26,640
Speaker 1: two am he was there pretty consistently, and then it

1919
01:40:26,720 --> 01:40:29,240
Speaker 1: was like four am, then it was five thirty, and

1920
01:40:29,280 --> 01:40:31,320
Speaker 1: as we were getting to the rut, I knew in

1921
01:40:31,320 --> 01:40:34,760
Speaker 1: that area was getting more and more consistent. So I

1922
01:40:34,800 --> 01:40:38,840
Speaker 1: set up in an area that was basically UM right

1923
01:40:38,920 --> 01:40:40,960
Speaker 1: off of his betting area where I thought his betting

1924
01:40:40,960 --> 01:40:43,320
Speaker 1: area was, and just so happens it was one of

1925
01:40:43,320 --> 01:40:45,719
Speaker 1: those times where I had a hot deal come in

1926
01:40:45,880 --> 01:40:49,280
Speaker 1: UM and you know, it's probably getting towards the peak

1927
01:40:49,320 --> 01:40:52,960
Speaker 1: of the rut, and uh, you know, Doe came in.

1928
01:40:53,160 --> 01:40:58,120
Speaker 1: Bucks were chasing her. And it was a unique situation

1929
01:40:58,200 --> 01:41:02,559
Speaker 1: in that every time time I rattled, I would draw

1930
01:41:02,640 --> 01:41:05,759
Speaker 1: in bucks, but if I grunted, I had no response

1931
01:41:05,880 --> 01:41:09,920
Speaker 1: whatsoever UM. And it almost made it difficult because I

1932
01:41:09,960 --> 01:41:12,000
Speaker 1: was getting I was in a cedar thicket, so I

1933
01:41:12,080 --> 01:41:16,719
Speaker 1: was getting bucks so close that, you know, rattling. Obviously

1934
01:41:16,760 --> 01:41:19,960
Speaker 1: I had more movement and that's what I had to

1935
01:41:20,000 --> 01:41:22,439
Speaker 1: do to get them into bow range. The grunts just

1936
01:41:22,520 --> 01:41:27,799
Speaker 1: were ineffective, nor leases were ineffective. UM. And so this

1937
01:41:27,800 --> 01:41:30,599
Speaker 1: this year I had ended up. I was a huge

1938
01:41:30,680 --> 01:41:33,479
Speaker 1: rattling sequence out after seeing about five or six different

1939
01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:36,760
Speaker 1: bucks all basically after in this area for this one day,

1940
01:41:37,720 --> 01:41:40,000
Speaker 1: and just so happened to turn around behind me and

1941
01:41:40,000 --> 01:41:43,200
Speaker 1: and from the betting area that I thought he was in, UM,

1942
01:41:43,240 --> 01:41:45,760
Speaker 1: he came cruise him through it about ten am um

1943
01:41:46,040 --> 01:41:48,320
Speaker 1: and and made a good shot on him. But you know,

1944
01:41:48,560 --> 01:41:54,400
Speaker 1: I've seen that deer on camera since September, um, and

1945
01:41:54,439 --> 01:41:56,320
Speaker 1: this was in the middle of November. But it was

1946
01:41:56,360 --> 01:42:00,360
Speaker 1: one of those places that I hadn't seen. I hadn't

1947
01:42:00,400 --> 01:42:06,479
Speaker 1: seen but probably seven deer in huts on the property, um,

1948
01:42:06,520 --> 01:42:08,639
Speaker 1: and I mean most of them, doze of fawns. I

1949
01:42:08,720 --> 01:42:11,760
Speaker 1: had seen one shooter box before then that I never

1950
01:42:11,840 --> 01:42:14,360
Speaker 1: got shot at. What other than that I didn't even

1951
01:42:14,479 --> 01:42:18,679
Speaker 1: seen about in person on camera at night absolutely, um.

1952
01:42:18,760 --> 01:42:22,960
Speaker 1: So it was it was very reassuring that the fact

1953
01:42:23,000 --> 01:42:24,920
Speaker 1: is just knowing there in the area and again that

1954
01:42:25,080 --> 01:42:27,920
Speaker 1: rut period, um, knowing that at any time it could

1955
01:42:27,920 --> 01:42:30,240
Speaker 1: happen and they could pop out right there, and that's

1956
01:42:30,240 --> 01:42:33,160
Speaker 1: pretty much what he did. Yeah, trail cameras are definitely

1957
01:42:33,240 --> 01:42:36,800
Speaker 1: a great tool for just keeping the optimism alive, that's

1958
01:42:36,840 --> 01:42:40,439
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah. Oh man, Well that's an awesome story.

1959
01:42:40,479 --> 01:42:42,439
Speaker 1: That sounds like a heck of a hunt and killing

1960
01:42:42,520 --> 01:42:46,160
Speaker 1: a four year old nearly eight pointer in public land

1961
01:42:46,280 --> 01:42:49,360
Speaker 1: that is that is awesome. So it was it was

1962
01:42:49,400 --> 01:42:52,400
Speaker 1: the biggest here I'd killed with with anything to date

1963
01:42:52,560 --> 01:42:55,280
Speaker 1: and at that time, and it was one of those

1964
01:42:55,280 --> 01:42:58,559
Speaker 1: ones that kind of you know, set me on fire again,

1965
01:42:58,640 --> 01:43:01,679
Speaker 1: I guess, especially thinking about all the time and putting

1966
01:43:01,720 --> 01:43:04,840
Speaker 1: the stand on public land. Oh yeah, that's that's as

1967
01:43:04,880 --> 01:43:08,320
Speaker 1: good as it gets, I would think. So yep, jere

1968
01:43:08,400 --> 01:43:10,120
Speaker 1: we are. We've been talking your ear off here for

1969
01:43:10,160 --> 01:43:11,840
Speaker 1: a pretty good time here, so we're gonna have to

1970
01:43:11,840 --> 01:43:14,880
Speaker 1: wrap it up. But I guess before we do that. Um, yeah,

1971
01:43:14,920 --> 01:43:16,880
Speaker 1: this has been really interesting stuff. I know our listeners

1972
01:43:16,920 --> 01:43:18,720
Speaker 1: are going to want to hear more from you, So

1973
01:43:18,760 --> 01:43:21,680
Speaker 1: where can they go if they want to get more

1974
01:43:21,720 --> 01:43:23,880
Speaker 1: information from you? Learn more about what you're doing? And

1975
01:43:23,960 --> 01:43:28,120
Speaker 1: you think that, so we we are still producing videos

1976
01:43:28,160 --> 01:43:32,120
Speaker 1: pretty frequently at thevisors dot Com. Um, we always try

1977
01:43:32,120 --> 01:43:35,840
Speaker 1: to do something really cool, educational, informational. That's it's basically

1978
01:43:35,840 --> 01:43:37,960
Speaker 1: in real time, you know what what people are going

1979
01:43:38,040 --> 01:43:40,160
Speaker 1: to be dealing with on their properties, whether that's a

1980
01:43:40,200 --> 01:43:45,120
Speaker 1: management thing or hunting strategies are actually hunts from the field, um,

1981
01:43:45,160 --> 01:43:47,479
Speaker 1: and we get those out pretty regularly. I'd say we

1982
01:43:47,520 --> 01:43:50,439
Speaker 1: have between you know, one and three a week, depending

1983
01:43:50,439 --> 01:43:53,080
Speaker 1: on the time of the season. Um, So we do

1984
01:43:53,120 --> 01:43:55,120
Speaker 1: a lot on that. You know, I still write a

1985
01:43:55,120 --> 01:43:57,439
Speaker 1: lot of articles for Deer and Deer hunting. And then

1986
01:43:57,479 --> 01:44:01,160
Speaker 1: also I've got um basically a week or bi weekly

1987
01:44:01,200 --> 01:44:05,280
Speaker 1: depending on the seasonal timing on outdoor channel dot com

1988
01:44:05,360 --> 01:44:09,400
Speaker 1: as well under at the column called Everything Dear and

1989
01:44:09,720 --> 01:44:13,400
Speaker 1: basically cover everything dear again trying seasonality. You know, my

1990
01:44:13,479 --> 01:44:15,640
Speaker 1: big thing is I want people to be reading and

1991
01:44:16,080 --> 01:44:19,240
Speaker 1: watching what they could be doing on their own property

1992
01:44:19,280 --> 01:44:21,840
Speaker 1: at best time. Um. It's probably the best way to

1993
01:44:21,880 --> 01:44:24,040
Speaker 1: relate to what's going on out there in the deer

1994
01:44:24,040 --> 01:44:27,800
Speaker 1: woods at any given time. So this is basically the

1995
01:44:27,840 --> 01:44:30,040
Speaker 1: best ways and in at least on a deer standpoint,

1996
01:44:30,120 --> 01:44:33,680
Speaker 1: to get to get into me. But you know, with

1997
01:44:33,800 --> 01:44:36,759
Speaker 1: Stone or media, we're at at the a P shows

1998
01:44:36,800 --> 01:44:39,479
Speaker 1: and at the shot shows and we're doing expose. Um,

1999
01:44:39,520 --> 01:44:41,800
Speaker 1: you know, we're there with our Deer grow product as well.

2000
01:44:41,880 --> 01:44:45,479
Speaker 1: So you know, I always welcome guys to grab me

2001
01:44:45,560 --> 01:44:48,559
Speaker 1: and talk at at any of the events KATIU may events,

2002
01:44:48,560 --> 01:44:52,120
Speaker 1: whatever they might have to to talk dear. It's very

2003
01:44:52,200 --> 01:44:54,920
Speaker 1: rare that I'll ever turned down talking deer, that's for sure.

2004
01:44:56,120 --> 01:44:58,000
Speaker 1: Well I'm glad that's the case because it was we

2005
01:44:58,000 --> 01:44:59,479
Speaker 1: were able to get you here to talk dear, and

2006
01:44:59,479 --> 01:45:03,880
Speaker 1: this was uh interesting, fascinating conversation. I uh, I enjoyed

2007
01:45:03,920 --> 01:45:06,720
Speaker 1: it and I'm even it probably was not didn't think

2008
01:45:06,760 --> 01:45:08,640
Speaker 1: it was possible, But I'm even more stoked to get

2009
01:45:08,720 --> 01:45:11,000
Speaker 1: deer hunting now than I was about two hours ago.

2010
01:45:11,320 --> 01:45:15,840
Speaker 1: So so thank you, Jeremy. I appreciated mark anytime, and

2011
01:45:15,920 --> 01:45:18,240
Speaker 1: it was great to be on and hopefully we can

2012
01:45:18,240 --> 01:45:21,000
Speaker 1: do it again sometime. That sounds great. Good luck this season?

2013
01:45:22,040 --> 01:45:24,679
Speaker 1: All right? Thanks? Like all right? Well, before we wrap

2014
01:45:24,720 --> 01:45:27,160
Speaker 1: it up, a few quick reminders. First, be sure to

2015
01:45:27,240 --> 01:45:31,400
Speaker 1: check out the new One Wild podcast. Our latest episode

2016
01:45:31,400 --> 01:45:35,080
Speaker 1: featured former pro baseball player Jim Tony and we discussed

2017
01:45:35,120 --> 01:45:38,040
Speaker 1: hunting from ground blinds and much more so I think

2018
01:45:38,080 --> 01:45:40,880
Speaker 1: you guys will really enjoy that one. We also need

2019
01:45:40,920 --> 01:45:44,040
Speaker 1: to thank our partners who helped make this podcast possible,

2020
01:45:44,120 --> 01:45:47,799
Speaker 1: so big thank you to sit Gear, Trophy, Ridge Bear Archery,

2021
01:45:47,840 --> 01:45:52,960
Speaker 1: Redneck Blinds, Hunter a, Maps, Osonics, Carbon Express, Maven Optics

2022
01:45:53,000 --> 01:45:56,559
Speaker 1: in the White Tail Institute of North America. And finally,

2023
01:45:56,880 --> 01:45:59,040
Speaker 1: thank you all for joining us. I hope you enjoyed

2024
01:45:59,040 --> 01:46:01,160
Speaker 1: this conversation with je Army as much as I did.

2025
01:46:01,360 --> 01:46:08,040
Speaker 1: And until next time, to stay Wired to Hunt. H