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Speaker 1: Celebrity.

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Speaker 2: What the fuck, mister Philopigus, Why aren't my zee anywhere

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Speaker 2: in the school? I worked for hours on them.

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Speaker 3: Excuse me, Kathleen, if you want to have a conversation

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Speaker 3: with me, the administrator of.

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Speaker 2: This that's Miss Hannah to you, asshole, Miss Kathleen.

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Speaker 3: If you would like to have a meeting with me,

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Speaker 3: you can schedule it on the clipboard located outside my office.

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Speaker 3: But this is completely unprofessional and unbecoming of a young

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Speaker 3: woman like you, who we are trying to turn into

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Speaker 3: a professional career woman.

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Speaker 2: Why don't you schedule with my pussy? How about that?

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Speaker 2: Did you schedule when you took down my art as

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Speaker 2: a woman. No you didn't. You said, I'm a man

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Speaker 2: in some tie from Woolworth's, and oh no, I have

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Speaker 2: a lot of power because I have a dick, a

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Speaker 2: small dick, hanging between my legs.

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Speaker 3: First of all, the tie is from sears, Miss Kathleen.

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Speaker 3: Second of all, your quote art is an art at all.

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Speaker 3: You think a photograph of a little girl burning a

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Speaker 3: bra that says I'm not even gonna say the word

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Speaker 3: that says slut written in sharpie on it is art.

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Speaker 3: We have young boys coming to this college to learn

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Speaker 3: about photography.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure you took it down so you could

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Speaker 2: close this stupid office of ears and jerk off on it.

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Speaker 2: You're sick. What aren't you like fucking van go? Why

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Speaker 2: don't you kill yourself too? Asshole?

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Speaker 3: Well, maybe I will masturbate to this photograph of a

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Speaker 3: young girl.

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Speaker 1: Who's that knocking at the door.

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Speaker 3: It's all your friends, you filthy horse. Your husband's gone,

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Speaker 3: and we've got books and a bottle of wine to kill.

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Speaker 1: It's Hollywood, it's books, it's gossip. I'm sure it's memoir.

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Speaker 3: It's Martini.

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Speaker 4: Celebrity puff club to read it while it's hot, Celebrity

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Speaker 4: poof club.

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Speaker 1: Tell your secrets. We won't talk celerity books.

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Speaker 3: No boys are a loud say it loud and cloud.

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Speaker 1: Celebrity poop club.

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Speaker 3: Buzz me in.

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Speaker 2: I brought the queer Fox Hi Bess Fag.

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Speaker 3: How is my favorite punk rock feminist badass doing today?

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Speaker 2: I'm feeling so fucking low, but also so fucking inspired

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Speaker 2: looking to one of my male awesome feminists, says white

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Speaker 2: male collaborators.

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Speaker 3: Nothing makes me feel better than me and an ally

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Speaker 3: to the feminist movement. You're such an ally, thank you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, watch you. We're gonna see if you're an ally to.

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Speaker 3: Not putting my allies up to the test. Welcome back

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Speaker 3: to school once again. Back to school.

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Speaker 2: I know we said it last week, but today is

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Speaker 2: really bad.

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Speaker 3: Really back to school. Like it's fully it's September to

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Speaker 3: the Boots.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, September to the Boots. Where you're like walking you're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: who do I know?

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Speaker 3: God? I miss campus.

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Speaker 2: I literally miss campus. And reading this book that we

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Speaker 2: will get into, I was like, damn, I'm like thrown

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Speaker 2: back into campus.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 3: It was so vocative. I remember being a freshman at

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Speaker 3: that's like really cool, like punk rock university called New York.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, do you know what New York?

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Speaker 3: And I had this little wunny oh sh like a

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Speaker 3: one hit and it's like a little wooden case and

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Speaker 3: how it just fucking jamed that thing. It had a

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Speaker 3: little the case had a place for the one hitter

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Speaker 3: and then for the weed, and so you could just

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Speaker 3: jam that in there. And I just hit that thing

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Speaker 3: in between classes smoke it like it was a cigarette.

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Speaker 3: Nobody was the wiser man.

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Speaker 2: That's so fucking dope and bad.

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Speaker 3: It was honestly pretty funk rock.

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Speaker 2: It's crazy how you became like a stoner when you

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Speaker 2: started going to New York. Yet you actually scolded me,

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Speaker 2: your powerful, small cismetle voice scolded me when I, as

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Speaker 2: a young feminist one to get high to blind the

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Speaker 2: pain of misogyny happening around me, and you scolded me

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Speaker 2: for it. So fuck you for that, by the way,

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Speaker 2: fuck you for that.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, sorry, the misogyny you're experiencing isn't

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Speaker 3: actually as important as how much of a loser you

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Speaker 3: are for smoking weed.

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Speaker 2: Wake up. Some of us are taking tests.

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Speaker 3: Which we're also misogynists.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, one off, I feel like my punk lyrics

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Speaker 2: that never probably really got released because I wasn't probably well,

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Speaker 2: we don't know, someone could have found the lyrics. I

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Speaker 2: was so like, fuck stan testing. It's classist, racist and

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Speaker 2: ablest and let's add ages to it. We abolish the SATs.

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Speaker 3: No, it's so fucked up when your parents are a

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Speaker 3: scientist and a therapist in Cambridge, Massachusetts and.

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Speaker 2: They're like, oh my god, you actually are definitely abled.

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Speaker 2: Let's give you extended time, and then you're like, fucking

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Speaker 2: extended time, nothing will fix this brain.

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Speaker 3: Did extended time work for you?

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Speaker 2: I'm sure brought my SAT score up from like a thousand,

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Speaker 2: two hundred.

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Speaker 3: Okay, sick.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, who knows.

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Speaker 3: So we read this really cool book.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm almost like nervous to get into it because

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Speaker 2: it's too cool to even get into.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but we have to, we have to. But you

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Speaker 3: know what, we're legitimately punk and we've experienced this life

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Speaker 3: and discuss it. You're wearing a bikini Kill T shirt

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Speaker 3: right now, I.

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Speaker 2: Am, I mean the just wearing the band tea to.

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Speaker 3: The podcast because of course we read a book.

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Speaker 2: Bye, none there than punk legend inventor of riot Girl,

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Speaker 2: even though this whole book is her just being like

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Speaker 2: fucking raised the word righte.

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Speaker 3: Girl's super problematic and I'm coming to terms with the

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Speaker 3: racisms and the movement myself. But then I'm also canceling

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Speaker 3: the movement for being so canceled, like heavy, right.

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Speaker 2: We actually need to talk about it anyway. You know her?

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Speaker 2: You love her?

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Speaker 3: From Katie Kill from Julia Ruin none other than Kathleen

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Speaker 3: and her book My Life as a Feminist Punk fuck.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, damn, wow, wow, wow, what a journey in this

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Speaker 2: book and insane journy. This is truly a classic but

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Speaker 2: rock and roll memboir and we have dare I say,

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Speaker 2: I have not read a book by a punk. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: we haven't even talked about zines really on those podcasts, and.

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Speaker 3: We haven't gotten into scenes, right, Like Anthony Keats is

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Speaker 3: not punk.

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Speaker 2: He's literally not a punk. Like he is like, fucking

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Speaker 2: maje your label, rock man, get your head out of

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Speaker 2: the gutterfucker.

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Speaker 3: Well, so is she. As she discusses the journey from

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Speaker 3: indie to major label, she means she has this weird

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Speaker 3: thing though when she first talks about it, how like

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Speaker 3: when Olympia the whole town started to turn against Nirvana

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Speaker 3: when they got their major.

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Speaker 2: Label deal and they left k Records and signed.

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Speaker 3: And she has this line where she's just like, I

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Speaker 3: don't know the whole indie versus majors thing, like seemed

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Speaker 3: like not a big deal to me. I don't know

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Speaker 3: why we were focusing on it. And I'm kind of like,

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Speaker 3: what do you mean you don't know why? It's like

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Speaker 3: it seems really obvious why everyone would.

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Speaker 2: Like call me as it is. Where because she goes

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Speaker 2: back and forth where she really because it was like

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Speaker 2: she was beff like with Kurt but they had like

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Speaker 2: a complicated relationship and that.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I was pretty shocked at all the history

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Speaker 3: like unfolding before me read this book.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know that she came up with smells like

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Speaker 2: teen spirit.

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Speaker 3: That they were at a CBS together and they saw

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Speaker 3: some deodorant said that was teens and they were like,

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Speaker 3: this is so fucked up in capitalism.

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Speaker 2: Wait, that line was amazing, and she was like, capitalism,

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Speaker 2: it shocks you again, how could you know the fucking

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Speaker 2: scent of what teen spirit is? And I was just like, ugh,

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Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with like teens and having that mindset and

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Speaker 2: just like being.

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Speaker 3: Like, wow, this is so fucked up. The corporations, Like

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Speaker 3: corporations tell us what to think and feel, yeah, and.

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Speaker 2: Can tell a fucking girl what she smells like. So

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Speaker 2: she's like laughing about that. And then her and Kirk

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Speaker 2: get fucking like wasted that night and just like cigarettes

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Speaker 2: and forties and then they go to his room in

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Speaker 2: this punk house and just start wrecking it. And then

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Speaker 2: she writes and sharpie on the wall smells like teens.

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Speaker 3: She writes, Kurt Cobain smells like teen spirit, and then

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Speaker 3: that became the line. And as she says. He called

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Speaker 3: her months later, was like, Yo, is it cool if

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Speaker 3: I use this line as like a song?

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Speaker 2: And she says yeah, but she's all just like the whatever, yeah,

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Speaker 2: which I love.

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Speaker 3: And that's it's so important to ask for permission when

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Speaker 3: using intellectual property that you maybe came up with in

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Speaker 3: a group setting with someone, you know. I'll often ask

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Speaker 3: the group, hey, is it cool if I used this

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Speaker 3: joke we all just made for a tweet? You know.

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Speaker 2: I feel like, yeah, you're always calling me being like hey,

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Speaker 2: lil yeah, would you mind if I could use this

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Speaker 2: in a tweet?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And then it goes wildly.

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Speaker 3: It goes viral, it goes micro viral.

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Speaker 2: I will say about this book, she is fucking guys

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Speaker 2: and having boyfriends about this whole thing, but doesn't really

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Speaker 2: talk about them and talks more about like the music

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Speaker 2: and the scene.

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Speaker 3: Truly feminist because she's not being like.

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Speaker 2: We don't need to talk about Tim from Nation of

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Speaker 2: Ulysses so much.

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Speaker 3: You know, she's not Jynis Dickinson. She's not really crazy,

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Speaker 3: you know. I'm like, she has been like menirass. I

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Speaker 3: was like yes, and also like I had a huge

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Speaker 3: cruss on a rock from beast because boys, and she

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Speaker 3: then she like stocked him and then made him my husband.

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Speaker 2: And she was like, and I bought a poster from

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Speaker 2: Sam Goodie, a Beastie boy poster and mix out with it.

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Speaker 3: And then he's just like why is like the mouth

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Speaker 3: area of this poster is so like damaged And she's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I think I spilled water, and he's like just on

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Speaker 3: the mouth, Okay, So back up, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Because we're having so Look, she had a super creepy dad.

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Speaker 3: She did a creepy dad, as she says, she was

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Speaker 3: never raped, but she did grow up in an incest household,

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Speaker 3: and she a term she learns like while she's volunteering

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Speaker 3: at the Rip Crisis Center Safe Space, which becomes a

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Speaker 3: really important space for her in in Olympia, Washington.

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Speaker 2: So her dad has a bumper sticker on his car

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Speaker 2: and he attaches like a Seebee radio and a speaker

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Speaker 2: to the bottom foot so he can have.

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Speaker 3: That call on the street. And he's been like nice.

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Speaker 2: Ass, and he's been like, oh whoo.

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Speaker 3: She's like in the pastnger seat like Pawniac at like

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Speaker 3: age six, and.

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Speaker 2: Everything is still like seventies and creepy and dark and

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Speaker 2: like and like.

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Speaker 3: He's just being creepy and kind of like well like

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Speaker 3: leer at her and then just be like when she

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Speaker 3: becomes a teen, and it's always just being like you're

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Speaker 3: a slut, but like you look good in a bikini,

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Speaker 3: but like.

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Speaker 2: You're if you wear a bikini, you're a whore.

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Speaker 3: And then like is like cuddling with her at night

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Speaker 3: and like has a heart on and like isn't trying anything,

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Speaker 3: but like is creepily spooning his own daughter. And then

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Speaker 3: she like says that to her friend. She was like

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Speaker 3: her friend is always like, oh, you do know what

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Speaker 3: spooning is. And then she's like, oh, that's what I

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Speaker 3: do with my dad, and the friend's like ew, and she's.

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Speaker 2: Like, oh, totally ew. So that was sad, And I

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Speaker 2: feel like that would be a traumatizing thing if you

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Speaker 2: were talking to your girlfriends in high school and you

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Speaker 2: were like, you guys all spoon with your dad.

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Speaker 3: And then when she was just like, I mean it's

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Speaker 3: so like, you know, trauma begets trauma where she's like,

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Speaker 3: and my dad's sister was beaten to death, and then

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Speaker 3: like his dad died in a plane crash, and like

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Speaker 3: the other sister was rampled by a horse.

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Speaker 2: It gets really like nineteen twenty.

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Speaker 3: I was just like, why your sole little house on

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Speaker 3: the prairie.

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Speaker 2: Because it's like I think we think of port Landia

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Speaker 2: because of what has become in this book is like

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Speaker 2: the blueprint for it, but like a lot of Washington State,

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Speaker 2: Like before port Landio was a little more like you're being.

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Speaker 3: Trips yeah, yeah, by a horse. My mother's like grandparents,

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Speaker 3: like we're apple farmers. That might be apocryphal. I think

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Speaker 3: that's true though, but they lived in Washington State. So

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Speaker 3: there's this whole dynamic though, so that she has a

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Speaker 3: sister who's like more like developed, and the sister gets

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Speaker 3: like stacked at age thirteen, and this sister's.

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Speaker 2: Nickname is good Times, and which I also I didn't

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Speaker 2: really know that, Like Rebel Girls kind of based off

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Speaker 2: the idea of her sister walking around the neighborhood as a.

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Speaker 3: Teen and like people will be like cackling her sister

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Speaker 3: and then she'd be like, suck my left titch a rabbit,

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Speaker 3: so badass.

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Speaker 2: So the song suck my left one, Okay, so this is.

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Speaker 3: When I want to ask you. Yeah, so the mom

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Speaker 3: like starts treating like her older sister is like the

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Speaker 3: hot one and like treats her as like the smart one.

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Speaker 3: Do you feel that your mother treated your sisters this

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Speaker 3: smart one and you as the hot one, and that

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Speaker 3: that kind of like effect the way you saw your

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Speaker 3: own future and the options.

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Speaker 2: I mean in a way like yes, I felt like

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Speaker 2: my sister was the smart one, right, but I feel

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Speaker 2: like she was also kind of more like the smart

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Speaker 2: and hot one, and I was like the fucking freaking dyke, creative, creative, creative,

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Speaker 2: Like I feel like she got the pressure of like

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Speaker 2: you should you know, go to.

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Speaker 3: I sorry, are you wearing a friendship like beads? What

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Speaker 3: did you just get back from summer camp?

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Speaker 2: I mean you're literally in Pukasha.

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Speaker 3: I'm in Puka. Sorry. I did just get back from Mexico.

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Speaker 2: No, And I was about to take off yesterday, but

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00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:10,960
Speaker 2: I was like, I need to keep this on so

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00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,480
Speaker 2: you can see it. It says shell yeah on it.

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Speaker 2: I made it the way we have both returned from camp,

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Speaker 2: So I.

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Speaker 3: Actually made it.

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Speaker 2: Actually, my friend who I made this necklace has actually

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Speaker 2: made me a bikini cole mixtape and I have like

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Speaker 2: Teeker and Luna checks on it and actually you ain't

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Speaker 2: get it, like we're actually gonna she's meeting me and

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Speaker 2: we're gonna go to show.

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Speaker 3: And I in Mexico and when a guy carol infection,

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Speaker 3: really actually we're fun. That looks sick, dude.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks man. And the tea I'm wearing is from

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Speaker 2: there twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 3: And did you get it? Fucking merch table, the fucking

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Speaker 3: merch table. And then did you tell Kathleen Hannah your

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Speaker 3: story of sexual ass all at them? Yeah?

295
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Speaker 2: I was. It's like, Okay, I actually have a twenty

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Speaker 2: seven minute story for you.

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Speaker 3: You can sit down, because that's another thing of this

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Speaker 3: book is that she becomes like a rape crisis counselor

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Speaker 3: basically to just like girls everywhere, and like the movement

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Speaker 3: does become like it's not just about the music.

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Speaker 2: It really is not becomes this thing of like you

302
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Speaker 2: can come to our show.

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Speaker 3: And like the shows, they literally become a safe space.

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Speaker 2: And then when you like and then you come to

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Speaker 2: us afterward and basically like tell us all of your

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Speaker 2: like sexual trauma. And obviously that does end up weighing

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Speaker 2: on her. Yeah, after some years and years and years

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Speaker 2: of touring and like tons of girls coming up to you,

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Speaker 2: being like I was raped and she does burn out,

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Speaker 2: which makes sense.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, if not just for millennials, gen xers can have burnout.

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Speaker 2: Yet seriously, the gen x of this all is really

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Speaker 2: so wild. But I mean it's just in the band

314
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Speaker 2: dynamics of like her and the other two is like

315
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,560
Speaker 2: which I didn't really know, is like they aren't that close.

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Speaker 2: Like it sounds like Toby and Kathy the drummer guitarist

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Speaker 2: are like closer and like kind of Kathleen becomes I think,

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Speaker 2: as she says, like the leader of a movement, like

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Speaker 2: she didn't want to become the leader of yeah, which

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Speaker 2: is and I want to discuss with you. It's like

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Speaker 2: the original chapel Roone but actually like fully opposite because

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Speaker 2: Kathleen is being so just like, do come up to me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm chapal Arone. It's now famous for being like,

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Speaker 3: don't come up to me, don't come up.

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Speaker 2: To me, and I know, and I was like reading

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Speaker 2: this and it's just like the Courtney and Kathleen fight.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm actually going viral right now for this

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Speaker 2: book viral and now I feel like I am part

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Speaker 2: of the problem and I'm pitting women against women.

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Speaker 3: Did you post like the Courtney thing.

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Speaker 2: I posted the Courtney thing, and people are just being like,

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Speaker 2: this is why Kathleen it sucks. But then people are

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Speaker 2: also being like, this is why Courtney Love sucks, and

334
00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:58,080
Speaker 2: like we need to admit that.

335
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:00,560
Speaker 3: Wait, show me this tweet. This is crazy. This is

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Speaker 3: happening in real It's happening right now.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let's just like get into it and.

338
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,399
Speaker 3: Like we Oh my god, one point five k babe,

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00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:07,159
Speaker 3: this is huge for you.

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00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:09,040
Speaker 2: Oh this is big for me. And I've like, I've

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Speaker 2: like this summer, i haven't really been on Twitter, like

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Speaker 2: I've just been trying to focus on like my great captions.

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Speaker 3: I just want to say, your caption is Courtney Love

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Speaker 3: is the funniest person in the world. It's like it's

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00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,520
Speaker 3: important to have a simple, slightly ambiguous take that's like

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00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,359
Speaker 3: not too negative or positive so people can go either

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Speaker 3: way exactly. That's how I know viral people.

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Speaker 2: All Right, that's it, that's it.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'll just I'll read out loud from the things

350
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,280
Speaker 3: I posted. Yeah, I saw Courtney Love walking toward me

351
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Speaker 3: throwing candy from a basket. She was flanked by two

352
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,879
Speaker 3: large dudes and she seemed wasted. My instincts told me

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Speaker 3: not to make eye contact with her. Courtney got in

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Speaker 3: my face and started hissing like a cat and reaching

355
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Speaker 3: out like she was going to claw me. She began

356
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,920
Speaker 3: screaming stuff at me, like bye, bye, are you leaving now, Kathleen,

357
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Speaker 3: go home and feed the poor. She held her lip

358
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Speaker 3: sacret up to my face and trace me features with

359
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,600
Speaker 3: it like she was going to put it on my face.

360
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,480
Speaker 3: Then she dropped a sweater in front of me and

361
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Speaker 3: bent down to grab it.

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Speaker 2: This part I was like the sweater, I was like

363
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,240
Speaker 2: felt pointed in a Kirko bainway because he was so sweater.

364
00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,640
Speaker 3: But it also feels like it's this thing where like indeed,

365
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,720
Speaker 3: girls are like sweaters, like they're always having like a

366
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,040
Speaker 3: thrift store sweater that's like has like an elastic waistpan

367
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:16,920
Speaker 3: in his hole, but they stowed like a star patch

368
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:17,800
Speaker 3: onto it, and.

369
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,720
Speaker 2: He like invented wearing cardigans again.

370
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,639
Speaker 3: As she stood up, she cold cocked me in the face.

371
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:25,720
Speaker 3: I fell down, put my head up to my cheek

372
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,120
Speaker 3: and felt blood and then there's from the ground. I yelled.

373
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Speaker 3: I will debate you at the college of her choice.

374
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,639
Speaker 3: She yelled back something like you can't even read it.

375
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,720
Speaker 3: I'm way more feminist than you. Because she had had

376
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,159
Speaker 3: this whole thing where she was like planning on the

377
00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:42,400
Speaker 3: like running inevitable, running with Courtney and saying she would

378
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Speaker 3: say that I'll debate you at the college of her choice.

379
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,520
Speaker 2: Line she had like came up with, like with members

380
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:50,480
Speaker 2: of Bikini Killed. To walk it back for a second.

381
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,720
Speaker 2: Basically her and Kurt smells like teen spirit. Then when

382
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:58,680
Speaker 2: like he got big, you know, and like got on heroin,

383
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,119
Speaker 2: they became less closes. But also he was just like

384
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,680
Speaker 2: always such a supporter of them and like unplugging misogynist guy's.

385
00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,560
Speaker 3: He had dated Toby, her bandmates, the drummer, the drummer

386
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,439
Speaker 3: for Bikini Kill, And I think that part of this

387
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,200
Speaker 3: was that he had been so in love with Toby,

388
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:20,520
Speaker 3: and so Courtney resented the whole group for being this

389
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,720
Speaker 3: object of his like continuing obsession even while he was

390
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:25,520
Speaker 3: like dating Courtney.

391
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they had them like, you know, open for them,

392
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,840
Speaker 2: and I feel like he was always supporting them. And

393
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,760
Speaker 2: it's like she saw Kathleen as just like this annoying

394
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:36,480
Speaker 2: person who was like but.

395
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,520
Speaker 3: Also Kim Gordon and Courtney love had been friends Kim

396
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:43,040
Speaker 3: Gordon of Sonic You yeah, and you learn story, and

397
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:47,199
Speaker 3: then Kathleen became really close with Kim Gordon. Yeah, and

398
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,480
Speaker 3: I think Courtney felt that she had been replaced by Kathleen,

399
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,920
Speaker 3: so that maybe also was a source of some of

400
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:53,480
Speaker 3: the unity.

401
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:59,040
Speaker 2: Well. Also, it's like, then Kathleen says, hole started saying

402
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:03,399
Speaker 2: girls to the at their shows, which is like the

403
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,600
Speaker 2: whole bikini kill thing. You say girls to the front

404
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,000
Speaker 2: so the girls could come to the front of the.

405
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,199
Speaker 3: Mash peds and knock at mash by the guys, and

406
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,240
Speaker 3: so like she'd been saying that for years at their

407
00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,240
Speaker 3: like very punk shows, and then whole comes out and

408
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 3: Courtney is saying it, Yeah, I like, wait the part

409
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 3: where she's like, there wasn't even really that many girls.

410
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,920
Speaker 2: Oh, this is so funny because it's like every page

411
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 2: of this book is Kathleen being like and then a

412
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 2: guy ran me over and called me a slud. And

413
00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,760
Speaker 2: then the one time she says like, guys weren't being

414
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 2: an asshole at a show is at the whole performance

415
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:34,200
Speaker 2: Outlalla Palooza.

416
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,159
Speaker 3: Hopefully before Sonic Youth and Courtney kept shouting girls to

417
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,280
Speaker 3: the front and other phrases I typically said at Bikini

418
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,679
Speaker 3: Kill shows between songs, it seemed empty and weird because

419
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,440
Speaker 3: there was plenty of space to dance and no men

420
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:53,960
Speaker 3: were messing with women. Read ohk wait wait that this

421
00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 3: part absolutely killed me. So she like actually presses charges.

422
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,119
Speaker 2: Wait wait wait by the way, also yeah, Kathleen, and

423
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 2: like not being the acab and just being like going

424
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 2: home and like getting out her probably like the riftstole

425
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 2: and line and being like I would like to press

426
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 2: charges skins.

427
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,920
Speaker 3: And she loves and she had already said this whole

428
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,919
Speaker 3: thing like years before, where because like somebody was talking

429
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 3: about like involving cops and she was like, fuck cops.

430
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,399
Speaker 3: Maybe it was the whole Android Dorkin thing where she

431
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 3: was like, wait a minute, I don't agree with Android

432
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,359
Speaker 3: Workin's feminism, and she's so like I'm at the forefront

433
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 3: like of third grade feminism. But basically she because there

434
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 3: was his talk yes okay, and like posting dorkin yeah,

435
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 3: and when peeing Dorkin being anti porn, and.

436
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,159
Speaker 2: She was like people are starting to recognize her from

437
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,679
Speaker 2: Bikini Kill. But also she was like stripping at this

438
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 2: place and someone was like, how the fuck can like

439
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,359
Speaker 2: you be a feminist and like strip and she was like,

440
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,400
Speaker 2: you can be a feminist and like.

441
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 5: Watch porn and be a stripper and so but then

442
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 5: I am third wave and so like then she went

443
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 5: to this thing post work in and then they were like, okay,

444
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 5: all like sex work should be like decriminalized and like.

445
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 3: All stripper shift a register like with the police.

446
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,719
Speaker 2: And Kathleen was like, why would you a stripper register

447
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 2: with the police the people that are like arresting them

448
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 2: and are so creepy.

449
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 3: And then they were like, oh, so you're just a

450
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 3: dwark at night and like you're actually like anti poor

451
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 3: now because you're anti strippers registering the police. And she

452
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:22,199
Speaker 3: was just like, wait, literally can't win contained multitudes like

453
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 3: and she.

454
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 2: Was like a wait, intersectional lette and she says intersectionally

455
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:28,200
Speaker 2: thirty five times a page.

456
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 3: Rest the book. Okay, but cut to Courtney loved throwing

457
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 3: candy at her and then punching there in the face.

458
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 3: As we left the theaters, parking that I got directions

459
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 3: to the nearest police station. Not like I trusted the cops.

460
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 3: I just wanted the assault to be written down somewhere

461
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 3: so no one could pretend it had never happened or

462
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,680
Speaker 3: say that it was a fight like they had when

463
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 3: Courtney assaulted singer Mary lou Laude.

464
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 2: Can you remember her? She was like a Herberd square busker.

465
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:53,400
Speaker 3: She was in the pit.

466
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:58,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was like very thrift store bangs girl like

467
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 2: singer that like sing songs. That's just like she.

468
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 3: She was the best Day's powery.

469
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like a little anyway. And I feel like

470
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 2: Kathleen was like, I need to stand up for all

471
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 2: the other indie girls that Courtney has like come out against. Wait.

472
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 2: Courtney also was like people were saying rumors that I

473
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 2: had said to Courtney, is your baby in a closet

474
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 2: with an ivy?

475
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 3: Okay? This part okay, dude, doesn't you hit me? Courtney

476
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 3: walked on stage with a bandage rist and said that

477
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 3: I hit a bitch, but she deserved it. Courtney love

478
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 3: is hilarious and fabulous. Later, she told the media I

479
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 3: provoked her by whispering wears the baby in a closet

480
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 3: with an ivy under my breath, referring to her daughter.

481
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 3: I absolutely did not say that. I don't even understand it.

482
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 3: Who makes medical jokes about anyone, much less a baby?

483
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 2: Because by the way, never joke a medical joke, because,

484
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 2: by the way, the second half of this book is

485
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 2: like all about Kathleen having lyme for her whole life

486
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 2: and just getting diagnosed, and like we do need to

487
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,360
Speaker 2: recognize invisible lime girls.

488
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 3: To the front.

489
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 2: Interesting comment and I'll leave him anonymous. A friend of

490
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 2: ours who's been on this podcast, and you guys can

491
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 2: guess who is a Lime survivor says he thinks and

492
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 2: I'm wondering what you think. He doesn't think she has lime?

493
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 3: I mean lime.

494
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 2: Lime and being on Fire Island, I was really wary

495
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 2: of ticks, and ticks were everywhere and everyone was always

496
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 2: being like I have a tick, and it's like I

497
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 2: really don't want to get lime. But lime is also

498
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 2: like kind of suspicious.

499
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 3: Why does it happen to crazy?

500
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 2: No? Literally, it's like a little bit like huh, and

501
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 2: like let's explore that. But are only crazy white women

502
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 2: comfortable enough to come out about and write a scene

503
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 2: about that?

504
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 3: I mean lessen you know, health is crazy, but no,

505
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 3: I mean she has the combination of factors and like

506
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 3: she is getting crazy fevers, but like do you is?

507
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 2: And then she's having seizures and like can't speak and

508
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 2: basically like the reason why she stops Latigra is because

509
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 2: of the lime, and the reason why she stops speakin

510
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 2: kill is because of like her being annoying. Kind of

511
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 2: would she kind of.

512
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 3: She has this way of referencing how she's like, I

513
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 3: was such a sucker, Like throughout the whole book, she

514
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 3: was like, yeah, I was drinking a lot, and I

515
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 3: was like being a huge asshole. But she's not really

516
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 3: like saying what she's doing. She's just saying she got

517
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 3: really drunk.

518
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 2: Throughout the book, She's like, yeah, it was crazy on

519
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 2: our like tour. By the time we got to DC,

520
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 2: someone said no, you can't stay at our punk house

521
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 2: and I was like, whoa, why and they were like, well,

522
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:58,239
Speaker 2: actually you have a horrible reputation, and she's being like

523
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 2: and then we stayed with them and they were like, WHOA,

524
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 2: I don't know what people are talking about. Which I

525
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 2: love that she's wrinkling throughout the book people being like

526
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 2: I was being annoying, and like she says a lot

527
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 2: of the book is also her saying like Toby and

528
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 2: Kathy the other murmurs of Bikini Killed, like she was like,

529
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 2: we were not close.

530
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 3: Like this is what I wonder. Do you think she's

531
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 3: annoying in like a outterall girl way, in like the

532
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 3: way you've talked before, where like she's just someone who's

533
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 3: like not shutting the fuck up, like at a house party.

534
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 2: And she's just being like, Okay, fuck choids. Yeah you

535
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 2: miss her MCS slutty pants. You right there, Stop being

536
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 2: a fucking asshole. Here's what happened to a soda chakur.

537
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 2: We're all making scents. Everyone's shut up and make a

538
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 2: scene right now.

539
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,679
Speaker 3: No, Yeah, she's just like being the original, just like

540
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 3: woke GSA girl bully.

541
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: Right, because like what is funny is about Kathleen Hamm

542
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, Like she is straight.

543
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 3: She's so straight. There was this thing when Ja D.

544
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 3: Sampson like first comes into the book liked to the

545
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 3: end when she starts Lautigra, I was like, is this

546
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 3: the first lesbian she's even.

547
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 2: Like cho there's three mentions.

548
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 3: I think, I kind of crazy how much lesbianism like

549
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 3: isn't a part of this book.

550
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 2: She in the beginning when she's like starts her bikini

551
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,719
Speaker 2: kills zines in Ali and like Seattle, they have this

552
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 2: like meeting and she's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I

553
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 2: realized everyone in my Bikini Kill zine meeting was white.

554
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 2: She was like, so then I invited one black person

555
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 2: to it. She was like, but then I realized.

556
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 3: That was superromatic. That is what posters up in black

557
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 3: neighborhood to get black girls to come. Then I realized

558
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 3: that was fucked up in token icing.

559
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 2: She goes, but then the black girls came. But then

560
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 2: the black girls actually left, and I was like, that's

561
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 2: actually okay for you to leave. But then everyone started

562
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 2: like being mad at me for even doing that. And

563
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,199
Speaker 2: then she'll be like, I wasn't recognizing the queer punk

564
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 2: like scene. And then she's like, list all these names

565
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 2: and she mentions like one girl about like she had

566
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 2: a crush on.

567
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 3: There's actually something I'll say it punk about the fact

568
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 3: that she never even experienced with the girl. She's never

569
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 3: being a party by ever. No, It's like, okay, just

570
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 3: like kind of like.

571
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 2: The childhood so childhood the dad.

572
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 3: The dad also has a titty mug, which she is like,

573
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 3: gives us evidence of him being creepy. But I was like,

574
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 3: I do feel like a titty mug today is so

575
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 3: like dimes square.

576
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 2: I think. Also, it's like, well let me actually, we'll

577
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 2: get to style after this. Let's finish up childhood for

578
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 2: a second. The dad fakes shooting himself and he's like, yeah, now,

579
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 2: you know, it feel like if I was gone.

580
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 3: The whole thing. There's a lot of trauma. There's a

581
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 3: lot of trauma. It's very dark and like he's always

582
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 3: like so wasted. And then the sister almost dies from

583
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 3: overdosing on Jimson weed and goes into a coma. And

584
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 3: then she was like, and this is where I got

585
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 3: all my media training by accident, because she became this

586
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 3: local celebrity because every famous for being a the Coma

587
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 3: girl and you're the Coma girls sister, and everyone's kind

588
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 3: of be like, yeah, I heard your sister died, bitch,

589
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 3: and she knew it.

590
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 2: Slut with air and her sister was like hallucinating so much,

591
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 2: tripping so hard, so they did save.

592
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 3: Her, you know. When she described it, she was like,

593
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 3: my sister was just like giggling and like opening the fridge, Like,

594
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 3: would you know you're being such a narc It's like

595
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 3: maybe she just like did a little bit of ass.

596
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 2: No. And then at the end, it's like she literally

597
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 2: would have died, so good on her. And then when

598
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 2: she gets out of her coma, the parents like buy

599
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: the sister a jeep. And this is the thing of like, oh,

600
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 2: we need to like prize you because we know you're

601
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 2: so troubled. And every time the Kathleen did like a

602
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 2: talent show, she realized she could sing for the first

603
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 2: time when she auditioned for Annie, and then this is

604
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 2: her like she nails it. And then this is kind

605
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 2: of the first like misogynistic like band thing to happen

606
00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 2: to her. Some parent complains that his son isn't in

607
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 2: the play, so they make it, which is actually so

608
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 2: our middle school. They made it an all.

609
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 3: Just literally when we were in West Side Romeo in

610
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 3: middle school and I sang Maria in my false Atto.

611
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 3: It's beautiful. Some would say you're piercing, but I mean

612
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 3: also it's just like it's literally middle school play, so

613
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 3: it kind of is about giving everyone a chance to shine.

614
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: Right, And she was just being like she was.

615
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 3: Like fuck this asshole, and everyone fucking cried and his

616
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 3: performance and like, I feel like that's a little bit

617
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 3: of the strain of like you can see how maybe

618
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 3: white people hate her.

619
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 2: Because she's already being because she's been like fuck this guy,

620
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 2: this asshole, and it's like, well, I don't know, you're

621
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 2: both ten. But then you hear the stories about the

622
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 2: dad and just being like, yeah, fuck this asshole.

623
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 3: Well no, and then it's like basically every man she

624
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 3: meets for her like entire life is groping.

625
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 2: Her or like is like pushing her close closet.

626
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 3: And just being like, you're a girl. You'll never amount

627
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 3: to anything, you stupid slut girl. I'm ripping your art

628
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 3: off the wall.

629
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 2: Because you're a slut. And then she makes like another

630
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 2: zne and like another scene another you know.

631
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 3: The political impetus for the movement is really there, and

632
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 3: like it really does come out organically from her just

633
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 3: being like, we are just like angry femininey.

634
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 2: Chicksick feminists who are like just constantly getting like berated

635
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 2: and groped and cat called and like by these nasty guys.

636
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 3: And she is lower middle class.

637
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 2: Right, lower middle class.

638
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 3: I think she's always kind of like trying to call

639
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 3: herself in.

640
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 2: And there's a turning point in the book when she

641
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 2: starts calling herself in. I think it's kind of like

642
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: after childhood a little.

643
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,959
Speaker 3: Bit, and she like, as we mentioned, like there's this

644
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 3: back and forth between her being like, uh, the movement

645
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 3: was becoming so annoying because it was becoming an impression Olympics.

646
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 3: But then she's also like a pressional emphasizing herself in

647
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 3: the book, Like there's a part where she was like,

648
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 3: my hair was feathered, And I wish that at the

649
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 3: time I had written in my journal that it was

650
00:31:58,360 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 3: the class indicator.

651
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 2: What's because she was like, because actually, just like it

652
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 2: was a class in the kid, if you were lower

653
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 2: working class, you would still have feather hair and not

654
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 2: no have because you wouldn't have MTV because your parents

655
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 2: couldn't pay for the cable.

656
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 3: But the time.

657
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 2: And then wait, I have to jump ahead to her

658
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 2: doing this performance art of ordering hot dogs where she

659
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 2: cancels herself for a second. So it's basically like after

660
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 2: she's quit Letigra Bikini Kill and she's really depressed and

661
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 2: all she can do is go order hot dogs from

662
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 2: like a totally old school hot dog place and she

663
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 2: orders ten hot dogs but drives around in a circle

664
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 2: ten times to order it. I'm going to acknowledge now

665
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 2: that just because I was terrorized and assaulted by more

666
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: than one teenage boy in my life did not give

667
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 2: me the right to freak the fuck out this kid.

668
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 2: The fact that I was forcing him into this performance

669
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: without his consent was clearly the statistic part of what

670
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 2: I was doing, as was the potential that he would

671
00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 2: tell all of his friends about it and no one

672
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 2: would believe him. And feminist performance art has never and

673
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 2: should never attempt to be free from critique and imperfection.

674
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 2: I never said anything besides my ordered him, and I

675
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 2: continue to pull to both windows as if each hot

676
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 2: dog with the first one I'd ever ordered. I had

677
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 2: signed up for a hot dog eating contest where the

678
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 2: only other contestant was me. I was competing against myself,

679
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 2: and I was totally winning, while also taking second place.

680
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 2: I still can't believe I didn't throw up in the end.

681
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 2: The performance was a huge success. It's like it's say

682
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 2: it say.

683
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 3: It's the way she's like writing her own like pre

684
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 3: defensive Instagram caption about her performance piece, which is ordering

685
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 3: hot dogs.

686
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 2: And assuming that she was freaking out the teen working

687
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 2: so much that now she's apologizing because he is a

688
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 2: working class kid working a hot dog stand and just

689
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 2: as she was part.

690
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 3: Of the potential trauma she might have been inflicting is

691
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 3: that people wouldn't believe him, and that then he would

692
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 3: have been gas lit by this performance. It's really crazy.

693
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 3: And this is when you come back and you're just like,

694
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 3: I don't know, there's a lot of spinning going on

695
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 3: in the head, and you're just like, I don't know

696
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 3: how much the.

697
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 2: Line I mean from just like probably every show of

698
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,320
Speaker 2: like girls coming up to you and telling you're the

699
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 2: trauma and her like being like, oh no, I can't

700
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 2: take this on and then being like, wait, this is

701
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 2: like too much, and then all these people started making

702
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 2: zcenes about how much they hate her. She was like,

703
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 2: I would go to my local coffee shop, the Smithfield,

704
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 2: and people would just slam down zines about how much

705
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 2: they hated me. I needed to get the fuck out

706
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 2: of Olympia, which.

707
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 3: I'm obsessed with, and it used to be at it

708
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 3: was required more effort and subject me someone.

709
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 2: It's like, why don't you make a zine, photo copy it,

710
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 2: walk to a variety, slam it down on your enemy.

711
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 3: I also love how she starts talking shit about like

712
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 3: the crazy girl who she like accidentally takes in Susan,

713
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 3: who becomes like rises her and like the leader of

714
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 3: the righte Girl movement who's like also constantly canceling Kathleen,

715
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 3: but also just like trying to reprint Kathleen scenes and

716
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 3: then like and then.

717
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 2: Asking her for money to reprint the zines, and it's

718
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 2: like this crazies and this.

719
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 3: Is and then she becomes like, so Dulla's all and

720
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 3: then says she's Ethiopian, so that she is a woman

721
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 3: of color.

722
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 2: She's actually my father's Ethiopian.

723
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 3: And she's like, so now I can't be canceled for

724
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 3: like not bringing women of color into the right Girl movement.

725
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 2: And Kathleen is like, well, I'm not going to send

726
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 2: you money to reprint my zines.

727
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 3: And it is just that thing where it's just like okay, well,

728
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,320
Speaker 3: like any like leftist like queer movement immediately devolves into

729
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 3: infighting and is like completely useless always. But the thing

730
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:46,479
Speaker 3: is like there actually is a real punk thing thing

731
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 3: happening here where they're like actually having punk shows. It's

732
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 3: like legitimately feminics. They are creating a safe place for women.

733
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 3: It's badass, it's cool.

734
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 2: They're literally playing shows, are famous, are making no money,

735
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 2: broken down vans, it's.

736
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 3: Like all of that like leftist infighting. Actually it makes

737
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 3: real sense, but it's like there's still a real movement

738
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 3: happening here.

739
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 2: I think it's also it's like more deserved rather than

740
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 2: just being like, okay, a bunch of people right fighting

741
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 2: when nothing's happening, where it's like, well, they're still literally

742
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 2: creating these songs going out there.

743
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like her being like there weren't like riot

744
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 3: girl chapters in every city, but I started saying there

745
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 3: was like hoping that girls would start them on their.

746
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 2: Own, and they fucking did.

747
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 3: Man, they fucking did. I love that. Like they're at

748
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 3: that show in DC and like the Krusties come up

749
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 3: and they start saying girl power, which also she invented

750
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 3: the term.

751
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 2: Girl She literally invented the girl term girl power. And

752
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 2: this is what's so like actually core punk. Her still

753
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 2: being mad at the Spice Girls about it, which I

754
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 2: kind of love when she was just like fucking Jerry

755
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 2: Hollwell said, Margaret Thatcher is like a girly or something

756
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 2: like that, and she's like, yikes, yeah, she's being so

757
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 2: like what the fuck.

758
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 3: And then she's like and then like during the second show,

759
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 3: girls in the front keep mostly to me. When I

760
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 3: lead down. They told me these crusty punks were grabbing them,

761
00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 3: jumping on them and kicking them. I asked the guys

762
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,399
Speaker 3: to stop. I said they should go watch somewhere else,

763
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 3: and they yelled back, saying that I was a Slatin

764
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 3: a whore who had fake boobs, and then they started

765
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 3: chanting all power is bad power, girl power is bad power.

766
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 3: And now they're being so like, well.

767
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 2: I feel like punk has also like always had this

768
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 2: thing where it's like always being like a lot of

769
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 2: white punks and they're being like, yeah, the system is fucked.

770
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 2: And then it's always someone gets found out for being

771
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,399
Speaker 2: rich and they're being like, actually, this guy is.

772
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 3: Rich, and she kind of says the whole DC scene

773
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 3: was like everyone was rich, yeah, and she's and that's

774
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 3: why they could afford to do.

775
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,760
Speaker 2: Like she's like, why do you think all your fucking

776
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 2: fave bands could do all these charity shows?

777
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 3: And then they were asked and then like the venues

778
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 3: would be like, so your cut is three hundred, but

779
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 3: that's a lot for us, and she was like, I

780
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 3: am taking the full cut.

781
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 2: And this is still happening with like spaces where they're

782
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 2: being like whoa, whoa, whoa, we're collective, like we could

783
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 2: really use this money. And she's like, well, I literally

784
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,760
Speaker 2: have zero sense. We just played, so it would actually

785
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 2: be cool to get paid.

786
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean because it's the thing. It's like it's

787
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 3: easy to be an anarcho punk when your parents are rich.

788
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 2: I remember I almost did an event for Reducted Space

789
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 2: and it was a feminist space and they were just

790
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 2: being so annoying in this type of way.

791
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm, and they were like, we're not going to

792
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 3: pay you. They're like, so we actually can only afford

793
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 3: to pay you like seventy five dollars.

794
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,240
Speaker 2: They just canceled our event.

795
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 3: It's always the logical endpoint.

796
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 2: We're all so like, let's just kiss it.

797
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 3: And well this also all the Riot Girls stuff did

798
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 3: just make me think of like Dyke March and how

799
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 3: like no the Dyke March this year, or how like

800
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 3: they like fully canceled themselves.

801
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, but it still happened, Oh it did. It

802
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 2: was like one person who was on the committee posted

803
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 2: like both sides Israel Palestine thing, then it got deleted.

804
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 2: Then there was other posts being like we do not

805
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 2: believe what that other person said, and the other people

806
00:38:57,880 --> 00:38:59,399
Speaker 2: being like docs that person that.

807
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 3: Most fifteen thousand like doc scene.

808
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 2: You're like, so is the Mark Joman.

809
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 3: And it's just like, clearly this is more important to

810
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 3: you than like the actual march.

811
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 2: Right of just like posting and posting and posting, but

812
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 2: back in the day it was more.

813
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 3: Zene basings and zes scenes.

814
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 2: Speaking of scenes, she gives and this goes back to

815
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 2: the kind of the classes she in the punk community.

816
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 2: She gives Kurt the Scum Manifesto bys.

817
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 3: Crazy and this is insane. First of all, I mean

818
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 3: just just that you get scum the society for kind

819
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 3: of man by Valarius Solanas, who of those of you

820
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 3: who don't know, she did shoot Andy Warhol famously, and

821
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 3: she was like a crazy feminist pitch from the past and.

822
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 2: She saw and she was like, because her and Kurt

823
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,720
Speaker 2: were all was like talking about like feminism and violence.

824
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 3: And art, I feel like you gave me man in

825
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 3: high school and I was like, wow, this is cool,

826
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,919
Speaker 3: and I was like checked us out. She literally gives

827
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,359
Speaker 3: it to Kurt Covain and it's like.

828
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 2: He doesn't speak to her for two weeks, but he's

829
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 2: still dating Toby and and she's like, huh, this is weird,

830
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 2: Like did I do something? And then like at like

831
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 2: a vegan pump barbecue, she comes up to him and

832
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 2: is like what's up, and he's like, you don't think

833
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 2: I can buy my own books. I'm sorry, I didn't

834
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 2: go to college. I can buy my own books.

835
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 3: And he thinks that she's being this just like snooty college.

836
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 2: College, evergreen steak, going zine making photo class.

837
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 3: And now she's realizing her privilege in that moment.

838
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 2: And she's like literally cancels herself so hard where she's like,

839
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,959
Speaker 2: I'll never be able to forgive myself what I did

840
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 2: that day by giving him Valerie Solanas is literally not

841
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 2: okay and it will never be okay and I and You're.

842
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:48,720
Speaker 3: Like, damn, yeah, I mean she blames herself.

843
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 2: I do feel like in this book she blames herself

844
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 2: for not reaching out to Toby after Kurt died, but

845
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 2: doesn't really blame.

846
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 3: But there's that moment where she almost drives up to

847
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 3: see him. Yeah, and she packs the car and then

848
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 3: she's like, you know what, we haven't talked in so long.

849
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 3: It's probably not my way.

850
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 2: Weird because it's very like movie where it's like they

851
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 2: open for them, but like you know, there's all these

852
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 2: security guards and girls and backstage and they're like. She's like,

853
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 2: you know what, it was nice enough for them to

854
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 2: just have us open.

855
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,399
Speaker 3: Like I'll leave it at that, yeah, because like they're

856
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 3: so big now.

857
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 2: And then she does back to the coffee shop where

858
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 2: people are always throwing zeines down on her table. She's like,

859
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 2: I had to fucking piss. So she like goes in

860
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:31,399
Speaker 2: the bathroom and in the bathroom is hanging a big

861
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 2: Kurt Carabaine poster with that says like when he's born

862
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,399
Speaker 2: and when he died. And she comes out and she goes,

863
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:42,439
Speaker 2: take that fucking thing down. He's a human. People here

864
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 2: loved him.

865
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 3: And they're just like treating him like it's a fucking meme.

866
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, fucking mean culture. And she was like, from then on,

867
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,399
Speaker 2: I went to Kundalini Coffee, I stopped going to Smithfield.

868
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 3: Can we talk about why she is so indie? Oh

869
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 3: my god, stop spilling water all over my beastie boys poster.

870
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 3: So at Evergreenstate College, she gets really into photo which

871
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 3: is like, so you in high school. So that's just

872
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 3: like literally every like indie person ever and like print making,

873
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 3: and she starts doing this cool technique where she's like

874
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 3: using the photo lab to print like political images on

875
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,240
Speaker 3: T shirts and she makes like images of nuclear bomb

876
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 3: testing on T shirts. I'm like, oh my god, you're

877
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 3: so adbusters.

878
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 2: So Adverson saying, she's like, if I could have fucked

879
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 2: the screen printing machine, I would have no wants to.

880
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,240
Speaker 3: Suck the screen printer. She's actually be an objective sexual,

881
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 3: which is probably the most lesbian thing she says in

882
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 3: the book is that she wants to fuck a machine.

883
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 3: And then Bikini Kill the name comes from Bikini Atoll

884
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 3: where they did nuclear testing.

885
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 2: I didn't know.

886
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 3: I didn't know that was like, oh, you're being so

887
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 3: like fuck war and it's like really so bad us

888
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 3: really cool? Yeah, how she does that?

889
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 2: And then there's I was like, damn bitch, Okay, go off.

890
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 2: There's this moment where she's like having like a photo

891
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 2: show and there's like a guy who has another photo show,

892
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,840
Speaker 2: and everyone's like, Wow, your technique is so amazing, Like

893
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 2: it's so cool, how did you do that? And her

894
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 2: like photos are just like a reprinted photos of like

895
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 2: misogynist ads in the seventies. I was like, wow, I've

896
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 2: done nothing now. Literally me in high school being like,

897
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 2: what if I took ads in the fifties where people

898
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 2: looked fucking happy, but the twist, they're not, And she

899
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 2: like printed them and did all this color work and

900
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 2: everyone was like, you just reprinted a photo, like that's.

901
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,439
Speaker 3: Not art, and she's like, actually, there's like a ton

902
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 3: of technique to what I did.

903
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 2: And then so she like calls up her friend was like,

904
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:53,320
Speaker 2: let's start our own.

905
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 3: Galleries fucking gallery space, and then Kathy Acker tells her, actually,

906
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 3: you should be in a band, which is great.

907
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,439
Speaker 2: This was iconic. So this is what they changed the game.

908
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 2: Kathiaker like teaches like a workshop of her college or something,

909
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 2: and she goes and she writes like this scene and

910
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 2: then like Kathyaker calls her out for being so feminism

911
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 2: one on one, and then it's like, actually, though, do

912
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 2: you want to do a spoken word at like this

913
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 2: event I'm having And she's like fuck yes, And then

914
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 2: that's when yeah, Kathiaker says you should start a band.

915
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 3: And then she was like and I realized kathiak was

916
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 3: actually being so respectful to me of like treating me

917
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 3: like an equal and telling me that my feminism one

918
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 3: on one was like so cheesy.

919
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 2: Because she could have been like, oh, great, work like

920
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 2: do this, but she was like no, would be better.

921
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you can do better that. She also just

922
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 3: loves stripping importantly, which we've been to, and is so

923
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 3: like strippers, and I think, like you know, does clearly

924
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,839
Speaker 3: inform her third wave feminism of being like I am

925
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 3: taking back the night, I'm taking back my body, and

926
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 3: I can be like pro porn, pro sex, anti cop

927
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 3: until Courtney.

928
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 2: Like, well that's where I draw the line at pro

929
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 2: cop and then they'll it gets like broken words, like

930
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 2: people start like from the scene discovering and she's like embarrassed.

931
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 3: Well, I love the scene.

932
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 2: So then and she's also being like and I put

933
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 2: all my cash into a retro plaid lunch box I

934
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 2: found at the first store.

935
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 3: So then she's stripping, and then two of her like

936
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 3: punk scene friends come into the strip bar where she's

937
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,720
Speaker 3: usually just like stripping for like gross middle aged men.

938
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 3: I stood at the edge of the stage in my

939
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 3: white satin rope pretending I was a swimmer about to

940
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 3: dive into a pool to avoid looking at them. When

941
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 3: smells like teen spirit started to play. I tore it

942
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,240
Speaker 3: along to Dave's drum intro with a fake smile, placid

943
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 3: on my face, hiding a sense of humiliation too deep

944
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 3: to describe. Shelby and her boyfriend were laughing. I'm sure

945
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 3: it was hilarious. I was taking my clothes off to

946
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 3: a song I'd written the title too. Kurt was on

947
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 3: his way to being a multimillionaire while I was jiggling

948
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 3: my ass in a broke down strip club. Ha ha ha.

949
00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:59,240
Speaker 3: So like now she's just like bitter.

950
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're stripping to smell nineteen square when you literally.

951
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 3: Came like friend put the song on the juke box

952
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 3: and just laughing at you stripping. No cool dude, but

953
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 3: I would do that.

954
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like that's literally so you you're like, it's a bitch, bitch.

955
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 2: And then it's interesting of like I feel like this

956
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 2: is also the transition of like punk to latigra, is

957
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 2: like her starting it of being like wait hold on,

958
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,839
Speaker 2: which is like the change of the indie scene of

959
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 2: like going from like angry to being like we can

960
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 2: actually be eighties and dance.

961
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting and that because in some ways I

962
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 3: feel like Latigra is more popular than Bikini Kill.

963
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:43,919
Speaker 2: I would say so, Like, I mean I think also

964
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 2: of our age, like we were like of age to

965
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,399
Speaker 2: be like I was going to like Latigra concerts when

966
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 2: they were just like around and Bikini Kill was like

967
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 2: broken Eyes.

968
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,800
Speaker 3: Bikini Kill is just straight up punk music and the

969
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 3: songs are like two minutes and seven long, and it

970
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 3: really is just like punk rock, like there's no since,

971
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 3: like it's.

972
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:03,919
Speaker 2: Pretty literally defining punks.

973
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 3: Giving punk rock. It's just like loud drums and guitars.

974
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 2: And then kind of the bridge to that was like

975
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 2: her solo project Julie Ruin, which I feel like, I

976
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 2: don't know if you're listening to, I feel like you

977
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:14,439
Speaker 2: actually would be really into.

978
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't. I don't know much of Julie Ruin.

979
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 2: It's just like basically her husband, like they are shopping

980
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 2: in Tacoma for like vintage records, and he sees this

981
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 2: drum machine for forty and he was like, you should

982
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 2: get that. That'd be eight hundred dollars in New York

983
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,879
Speaker 2: and she like gets it and then is like, oh wait,

984
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 2: I can just like make fun, shouty songs that are

985
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 2: being a little more like dancy indeed.

986
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and because you're adding like some synth chords in there,

987
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 3: and it's just like a little bit cleaner and everyone

988
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 3: likes it. And now it's just like that paved the

989
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 3: way for like everyone to be eighties.

990
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 2: Literally, everyone to be eighties, to be like glasses neon.

991
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 2: We can dance, we don't have to mosh.

992
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 3: Like you can go all the way up to Chapel round.

993
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:56,359
Speaker 3: And she's being like so eighties with her.

994
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 2: Right, It's like, oh, like that's such a literally tk oh,

995
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 2: it's like literally mother, so some mother.

996
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's like, yeah, it's that transition from just

997
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 3: being like we're angry feminists to being like we're clean

998
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 3: and having fun.

999
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 2: And we're doing dances. And like I met j D Sampson,

1000
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 2: who's gendered on conforming.

1001
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,359
Speaker 3: I also now wonder though, are they even friends because

1002
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 3: she kind of like doesn't even talk about JD. And

1003
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 3: she was like JD was an awesome gender No, I'm

1004
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 3: conforming folk, and like she came in and totally knew

1005
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 3: all of the licks on the guitar, and.

1006
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 2: I mean I think she was wrapping up the book.

1007
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 2: The book is much more about like the scene and

1008
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 2: I I feel like her and JD probably have like

1009
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 2: a totally good relationship and that's not such a girl

1010
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 2: nineties her and Toby like tense, like where you're living

1011
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 2: in like punk houses and like putting out cigarettes on

1012
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 2: each other's zines and being like you stole this guitar.

1013
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 3: I think that JD has ever been so lesbian and

1014
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 3: so just like hey, Kathleen, I just want to call

1015
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 3: you on this one thing.

1016
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 2: And Kathleen is like, thank you so much JD for that.

1017
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's definitely happened several times, but jad is

1018
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 3: not getting so mad about it and like stewing for weeks.

1019
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 2: I bet JD was mad, which she gets a little

1020
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:20,280
Speaker 2: bit into when she ends Letigra right after they signed

1021
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 2: with Universal and they're pretty shocked, and she's like, my

1022
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,280
Speaker 2: band felt like I had taken away their livelihood because

1023
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 2: she did.

1024
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 3: She did because she's married to a beastie boy, and

1025
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 3: she's like, I'm actually good and JD's literally like mama.

1026
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like cool, sweet, literally just sign and JD.

1027
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 3: Is like writing a HuffPo article about how she's like, well,

1028
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 3: I'm literally like a poor ass DJ living in Bushway.

1029
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 2: It's old dj the Ustyn and Kathleen has been like,

1030
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 2: so we retreated to our lake house, we stopped at

1031
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,439
Speaker 2: Party City. She just becomes way more like Joe's Pub

1032
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:54,839
Speaker 2: and it's like I started hanging up Bridge it out

1033
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 2: for it in Joe's Pub scene, and it's kind of like, Okay,

1034
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 2: you're getting older and you live right now.

1035
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 3: She's just like getting bunch within Zidaris. Yeah, I wonder

1036
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 3: if you hang with Patty Smith at all.

1037
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 2: I don't think so she's a little more like I

1038
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 2: feel like Joan and Jet changed shows her life because

1039
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 2: Joan Jet is like, I got your tape and I

1040
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 2: want her. Gay is Kenny Millman, who's like injury.

1041
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 3: It was weird. Darren the I thought he was I

1042
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 3: thought he was gay too. That whole relationship seems so gay.

1043
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 2: It seemed really gay.

1044
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 3: He may have I think he may have done a

1045
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 3: little bit.

1046
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 2: And that was him proving something right. There's as we

1047
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 2: close on this hour, Yeah, so it's.

1048
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 4: Actually assaulted by a close friend named Darren, and it

1049
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 4: like it's a lot of trauma obviously, but basically like

1050
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 4: he was her best friend and they have this like

1051
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 4: confusing relationship.

1052
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 3: And because she had also like felt so guilty for

1053
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 3: talking shit about.

1054
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 2: Kim To occurred in Dave Roll. But that part was

1055
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 2: also really confusion. Dave No, I mean she doesn't say

1056
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:00,040
Speaker 2: because I had.

1057
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 3: Said that she had, And there is this weird thing

1058
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 3: where Dave starts coming into the picture.

1059
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, but she also says this thing where she was

1060
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:12,760
Speaker 2: laying out her zine pages and Dave Roll like comes

1061
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,280
Speaker 2: up and it's at this house.

1062
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 3: And she's like, don't you.

1063
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 2: She goes say the fuck back.

1064
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 3: Like she does sound like such a bitch in this way.

1065
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 3: We were just like, all right, calm down, like you're

1066
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 3: walking into some house and she's just like, don't.

1067
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 2: Touch my fucking and you're like, Damna is on when

1068
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:37,919
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go back to the thrift store shop coffee shop. Wait,

1069
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,839
Speaker 2: but where she meets Joanna Fateman of Latigra, she goes

1070
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 2: the chapter is called like oh Joanna, and she's like,

1071
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 2: Joanna worked at a thrift store combination shop. They just

1072
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 2: don't make him like they used to do anyway.

1073
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 3: So then she and.

1074
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 2: Darren like make up and she's like crying to him

1075
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 2: but all of her assaults and rapes aff her life.

1076
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 2: And they take a bath together and she's naked, and

1077
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 2: then he.

1078
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 3: Kind of like yeah, kind of rolls over her and.

1079
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 2: Crying, still doing it. Yeah, very bad, sad, And she's

1080
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 2: my best friend.

1081
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:20,240
Speaker 3: And I'm moving and I'm closing, and she's like putting

1082
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:22,320
Speaker 3: it away and not talking about it. But then finally

1083
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 3: does like talk about it and just.

1084
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:26,799
Speaker 2: Like move into his apartment at some point.

1085
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1086
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 2: That and then he like plays guitar on the next

1087
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:33,719
Speaker 2: Bikini Kill record. But her other bandmates don't know.

1088
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 3: There's a lot of processing and a lot of moving

1089
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 3: and a lot of her being I'm like, wait, but

1090
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 3: aren't you rich now? Why are you still being so

1091
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 3: roommates and like.

1092
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 2: Because that's what's like crazy, is like it's still just

1093
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 2: like punk band where everyone knows who she is and

1094
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 2: she is a legend, but like they are just like

1095
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 2: on Kill rock Stars and probably like getting an advance

1096
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 2: of ten thousand and that's like paying for their tour.

1097
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 3: And then just say like the only way now is

1098
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 3: like speaking to hers and just like talking like feminine.

1099
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,919
Speaker 2: She makes like college was like period.

1100
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 3: Get your coin. So then bet she and Adam Adam.

1101
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 2: Moved to New York. This is when she is the

1102
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 2: only time I feel like she talks about like Tim

1103
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 2: from a band and like other guys, but she's just

1104
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 2: being like I want to fuck his brains out.

1105
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 3: And then like she's always having lime, but like it's fine,

1106
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 3: but then she's getting better. And then like she and

1107
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 3: Adam will have photoshop wars. That was insane where she

1108
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 3: was like, yeah, like we'll both in our computers and

1109
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 3: like challenge each other to be like who can make

1110
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,720
Speaker 3: Captain Sully look like a douchebag? And then like Adam

1111
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 3: will put him in a Von Dutch hat.

1112
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:41,800
Speaker 2: She's like, and then we made like ourselves as steampunks

1113
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 2: and then we made listen. I guess you're like that.

1114
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:47,399
Speaker 3: The modern like evolves zine couples, Like no, you just

1115
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:48,799
Speaker 3: like do competitive photoshops.

1116
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 2: Oh I know, because it's like, okay, you guys, when

1117
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 2: we first started dating, we're like crate digging for records

1118
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,800
Speaker 2: and Tacoma, and now you're like doing photoshop wars.

1119
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:12,879
Speaker 3: And that's love, that's love. Why didn't she wear?

1120
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:13,800
Speaker 1: She ate?

1121
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 3: I love? What did she wear?

1122
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:21,319
Speaker 2: I mean? Now, yeah, okay, eighties she was so combat

1123
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 2: combat boots. Also there were ripped tank with wearing like

1124
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 2: fucking peages, which is so like wearing like dirty hands

1125
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:34,839
Speaker 2: boxes and a tank top and ripped suret aded fish nets.

1126
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 3: I was like, she's being so eighties, and I was like,

1127
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:39,800
Speaker 3: it was the eighties because they're being so like bright

1128
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 3: colors and like they're wearing like crazy underwear overtights and

1129
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 3: like literally and like and like they're dressed like they're

1130
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 3: going to like an eighties dance party.

1131
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 2: And you're like they're literally seeing the go gos. They're

1132
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 2: like actually and like she read right, being so like

1133
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:57,479
Speaker 2: lunchbox purse, and and then.

1134
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 3: It's like, literally, is she ined lunch?

1135
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:04,240
Speaker 2: No, that's something I haven't done anything new, me carrying

1136
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 2: around my home alone.

1137
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 3: When she talked keeping the money from a show like

1138
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 3: in a lunch box that she.

1139
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:10,760
Speaker 2: Got literally constantly thrifting.

1140
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 3: She's constantly thrifting.

1141
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: Oh.

1142
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 2: Also, she talks about an episode which we all need

1143
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 2: to watch of Roseanne where Jenna Elfman is a riot

1144
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 2: girl hitchhiker and is part of a band called the

1145
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:24,839
Speaker 2: Unit Shredders, and she's being like, and it's not Jenna

1146
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 2: Elfman's fault, but it's the writer's fault. But her style

1147
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 2: was not ryt girl, it wasn't thrift store dress with Baretts.

1148
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 2: It was grunge style of Jean's flannel sh.

1149
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 3: I I'm so obsessed that she made that distinction period period.

1150
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 3: So I do feel like now she's still like probably

1151
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 3: like you know, mixing just like an old member's only

1152
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 3: leather jacket, Like well then it like.

1153
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,360
Speaker 2: He were early two thousands. She like threw back to

1154
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 2: the eighties, and I feel like was doing the whole

1155
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 2: like I'm wearing a dress that's like totally rectangular and

1156
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:59,240
Speaker 2: bells out and it's the fifties but it's the eighties.

1157
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's kind of Betsy Johnson, and like the

1158
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,720
Speaker 3: hair is like crazy and it slicked on one side

1159
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 3: and like big on the other.

1160
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,399
Speaker 2: Now I feel like she's also being like she has

1161
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:09,440
Speaker 2: like a T shirt line and now she is still

1162
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:12,399
Speaker 2: being like this was is a Chippendale's shirt, I've turned

1163
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 2: into a dress. I feel like she's so Farmer's market

1164
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:20,240
Speaker 2: to the boots.

1165
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:21,719
Speaker 3: And is like, well, because she has limes, so she's

1166
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 3: always been need to like gluten free, like like a

1167
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 3: race something free free. Yeah. She talks about how like

1168
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 3: Adam was like really supportive of her, like trying different

1169
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 3: diets to like take this out and take that out.

1170
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 3: But she's like doing different weird diets.

1171
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:37,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I think they're having a good cheat

1172
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 2: day where they're like making lasagna together.

1173
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 3: Because then she's still just like and then I like

1174
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 3: smoked five cigarettes and I felt bad.

1175
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 2: No, and she's like I stopped drinking. Then she's like no,

1176
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 2: but then I did have like seven cigarettes hittable, like,

1177
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 2: and I feel.

1178
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,359
Speaker 3: Like she I feel like they're so probably edibles now

1179
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:53,359
Speaker 3: and she's like, these are my.

1180
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 2: Limes and she's like blazed.

1181
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,240
Speaker 3: To thee and she's getting rose to lights.

1182
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:01,360
Speaker 2: How does she? I feel like we have this intel

1183
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 2: from friends that her house is like so mcm.

1184
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's sunken.

1185
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's there like in a rap dress and

1186
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 2: her sunken.

1187
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,760
Speaker 3: But is she doing like cool like random like freaky

1188
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 3: vintage crosses or no, like a punk way where she's.

1189
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 2: Like she's Washington, lower middle class, which is like I

1190
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 2: feel like she's not fucking with Catholicism a lot.

1191
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 3: That's true. It's more evangelical over there anyway. Yeah, and

1192
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 3: that's not really part of her story.

1193
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 2: Is there a frame thing that like she could be

1194
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 2: a napkin that says like bitch, I need my pills.

1195
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 3: Maybe that like Amy Sedaris gave her.

1196
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes, She's like, Adam, look at these hilarious napkins, Amy.

1197
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's like, wow, that's hysterical.

1198
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 2: Who are you in the book? This is fun. I

1199
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 2: mean you're going to the strip club and your bunny on.

1200
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I'm laughing at her.

1201
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 2: I mean I was, I am. There's a lot of

1202
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 2: parts of you that are not Kathleen at all, but

1203
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 2: like absolutely all of her collage work.

1204
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 3: I am no for sure, And you are.

1205
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 2: Not canceling myself and like I'm not like running a

1206
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 2: crisis center for girls.

1207
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 3: You are being like I'm making a T shirt with

1208
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 3: a bomb on it.

1209
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 2: Like absolutely be like, yeah, this is a bomb from

1210
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 2: the fifties that killed the whole community, and we're going

1211
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 2: to talk about that, but also covering it is an

1212
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:31,440
Speaker 2: ad for Winston cigarette. Yeah, which my grand father is

1213
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 2: your soul un So, Yeah, I'm Kathleen, honestly. I get

1214
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 2: this book.

1215
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1216
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 2: I would say like four points out of five cassette

1217
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 2: tapes that I want to master out of.

1218
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 3: Five, yeah, like five creepy to true rock memoir.

1219
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 2: Like it's conversational, there's like is.

1220
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 3: And then there is a sense of place. I think

1221
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 3: she does a real good job like describing sub Washington

1222
00:58:57,320 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 3: and surb in Maryland which grows up and like you

1223
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 3: really feel like Evergreen State College.

1224
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 2: Not in the way that like maybe like a Terry

1225
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 2: Hatcher in One of These Housewives is conversational. She is

1226
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 2: a little more like, yeah, you feel like you're in

1227
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 2: like a busted car. You feel like you're in the

1228
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 2: tour van man yea.

1229
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 3: And she was there for history and she created history

1230
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,919
Speaker 3: and so it's kind of cool to really see it.

1231
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 2: Live, really read about it.

1232
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 3: Man. Yeah, so props.

1233
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 2: Literally this icon Kathleen, like literally the women everywhere. Thank

1234
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 2: you girls to the front, and that means non binary men, period,

1235
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 2: gay guys, gay guys, fucking best, fucking best club kids

1236
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 2: to the front. This ep of Celebrity book Club was

1237
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 2: Stephen and Lee was produced by Darby Masters. We had

1238
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:56,439
Speaker 2: a huge falling out in Olympia, but like she's still

1239
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:58,600
Speaker 2: a sister, and like even though she wrote a zene

1240
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 2: about me and like RMS, like I forgive her because

1241
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 2: like she's a rock star, and like Darby, if you're

1242
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 2: out there, like let's make an album. The supervising producer

1243
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 2: on This is Abuza Bar Like, You're the only dude

1244
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 2: that I would let play in my band. His guitar

1245
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 2: riffs were so epic and like reminiscent of just like

1246
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:21,480
Speaker 2: actually like the Beach Boys meets the Wipers, so sick.

1247
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 2: This episode was also stud Christina Everett. Wow, she was

1248
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 2: a legend in London. She was doing shit no one did.

1249
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:35,720
Speaker 2: The artwork was done by Teddy Blanks. He's this awesome

1250
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 2: like artist, really really cool that I met on tour.

1251
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 2: I don't know where the fuck he is now. Music

1252
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 2: by my collaborator Steve Phillips Horse, who laid this down

1253
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:50,440
Speaker 2: on a cour track in his bedroom in nineteen eighty nine.

1254
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 2: This podcast was originally co created Prolog Projects as just

1255
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 2: a small label out there in Seattle. Yeah. Fuck, it's

1256
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 2: been a ride. Att