Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Katie Current. I hope you're all enjoying
Speaker 1: Back to Biz with Katie and Bows, the special series
Speaker 1: I'm doing with my friend and co host Bozma st. John.
Speaker 1: We're about halfway done with the series. The next episode
Speaker 1: is coming out July. And in the meantime, I wanted
Speaker 1: to share an interview I did back in February what
Speaker 1: seems like a lifetime and another world ago. It was
Speaker 1: an interview we did for our Next Question Live series,
Speaker 1: So in front of an audience in our offices in Manhattan, Hi,
Speaker 1: how are you? Hi? Everyone? As I said, another world ago.
Speaker 1: But just to set the scene for you, it was
Speaker 1: the Monday after the Super Bowl and we had Jeff Jones,
Speaker 1: the CEO of H and R block in from Kansas City. Everyone,
Speaker 1: and welcome to Next Question Live. It's great to have
Speaker 1: everyone here. You know, it had been fifty three years
Speaker 1: since the Kansas City Chiefs went to the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1: Back then they were crushed by the Green Babys. I'm
Speaker 1: sorry to remind you, so last night's victory was especially
Speaker 1: sweet for Chiefs fans, including the one sitting here with
Speaker 1: me right now. Jeff Jones is the CEO of h
Speaker 1: and R Block. The company's headquartered in Kansas City, and
Speaker 1: you can imagine there's still quite a few people celebrating
Speaker 1: the victory at the Super Bowl. Jeff, welcome, Thank you,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming in very late night
Speaker 1: last night. I was gonna say tell us about it.
Speaker 1: We have such a nice conversation, but we had to
Speaker 1: hold the release for obvious reasons. But now here we are,
Speaker 1: it's July, and we're nearing the new and extended tax
Speaker 1: deadline of July. So I was reminded of my chat
Speaker 1: with Jeff. You know, he's such a fascinating guy with
Speaker 1: this really atypical background for CEO, and we talked about
Speaker 1: the road that led to this job, how he's changing
Speaker 1: workplace culture, and he also offered really thoughtful career advice.
Speaker 1: So I wanted to share this conversation with you today,
Speaker 1: I mean, if not now, when, so I hope you enjoy.
Speaker 1: We should talk about your love with sports, because you
Speaker 1: played baseball as a kid growing up in Parkersburg, West Virginia,
Speaker 1: and um I was asking you earlier, we were chatting
Speaker 1: if that was your ticket out, But it wasn't so
Speaker 1: much baseball. It was actually military school. It was military school,
Speaker 1: that's right. So I was. You know, I'm from a
Speaker 1: really small town. I was a way better than average
Speaker 1: baseball player, but I was a terrible student. And I
Speaker 1: had a high school coach that said to me, so
Speaker 1: imagine in today's world as a high school senior. I
Speaker 1: never taken a standardized test. I had no family that
Speaker 1: had ever gone to college. We didn't have a college counselor.
Speaker 1: But I had a coach say to me, Hey, Jones,
Speaker 1: were you going to go to school next year? And
Speaker 1: I said, I have no idea. And this coach named
Speaker 1: Chris Wegman said to me, you should go to Fork
Speaker 1: Union Military Academy. I didn't know what that was, and
Speaker 1: obviously there was no mobile phones or internet. And so
Speaker 1: my mom called and we got a packet in the mail,
Speaker 1: and I ended up going. I won't borry with the
Speaker 1: whole story, but it changed my life. That was one year.
Speaker 1: So this was after you graduated from college. I went
Speaker 1: as a PG after high school before I went to college,
Speaker 1: A sorry, a post graduate of high school. In athletes,
Speaker 1: there's a common PG year that you do after high school,
Speaker 1: and a lot of colleges will send kids there instead
Speaker 1: of red shirting him. So at Fork Union Military Academy
Speaker 1: in Southern Virginia and Southern virgin Union, Virginia kind of
Speaker 1: right between Charlottesville and Richmond, and that's where you were.
Speaker 1: And I'm from Virginia and I went to u v A,
Speaker 1: so I know that area. But that's where you really
Speaker 1: got your act together. And so when you graduated from
Speaker 1: high school, you were kind of unimpressive. I was extremely unimpressive.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure I'm in pressive now, but I was
Speaker 1: definitely not impressive. Impressive now, but I'm just saying, you know,
Speaker 1: you didn't have great grades, as you said, So you
Speaker 1: went to military school, you did well, and then you
Speaker 1: ended up at the University of Dayton that's into school.
Speaker 1: And I learned in that process that I wasn't good
Speaker 1: enough to play baseball professionally. I was a catcher, and
Speaker 1: you'd go to all these pro tryout camps and I
Speaker 1: had an average arm. I was a really good batter,
Speaker 1: and I was slow, and they just said, we can't
Speaker 1: make you faster. You can't play at the next level
Speaker 1: if you're slow. And so I just gave up baseball
Speaker 1: and started studying more. And you you obviously have a
Speaker 1: lot of hustle. Was there a moment where things just
Speaker 1: suddenly clicked? What happened? You know, there's no question that
Speaker 1: I think the hustle of my parents is where it starts.
Speaker 1: My parents are entrepreneurs, small mom and pop entrepreneurs and
Speaker 1: a lot of ups and downs. But I think you
Speaker 1: learned resilience from that fork. Union was a chance, and
Speaker 1: I knew when I went there that I just didn't
Speaker 1: want to blow that chance, and so I made the
Speaker 1: mo most of it. That launched into going to university.
Speaker 1: And in university, I learned that I was obsessed with
Speaker 1: how consumers behave, why they do what they do. What
Speaker 1: did you major in? I majored in communications and marketing
Speaker 1: And my dream job was to work at LEO Burnett
Speaker 1: in Chicago. And you got your drinks and I got
Speaker 1: my dream job. But I got rejected four times. I
Speaker 1: was considered what they call off the street. I wasn't
Speaker 1: at a school they recruited at, I didn't have an
Speaker 1: m b A. I moved to Chicago without a job,
Speaker 1: and um, I got hired and that's what started my career.
Speaker 1: So how did you finally convince them? Because you said
Speaker 1: you were rejected four times, so what what was the
Speaker 1: fifth time? Must have been a charm. So what happened,
Speaker 1: you'll never forget it. I finally got that famous informational
Speaker 1: interview which everyone says, it's a real interview, don't blow
Speaker 1: it right. So I go in and a guy named
Speaker 1: Bill Haljan interviewed me and he said, tell me about
Speaker 1: the last time somebody said to you, that's a great idea.
Speaker 1: First question, I don't remember what I said to him,
Speaker 1: but I gave him an answer, and he said, give
Speaker 1: me another one. And I gave him an answer, and
Speaker 1: he said give me another one, and I gave him
Speaker 1: an answer, and he said, give me an You don't
Speaker 1: remember any of these was the next one, because the
Speaker 1: next thing he said to me, we went through that
Speaker 1: whole thing. And then he said, tell me about a
Speaker 1: product that does not exist but should exist. And on
Speaker 1: the spot, I said, fingernail clippers that catch your fingernails.
Speaker 1: And I got hired, and that is how my career.
Speaker 1: And then they moved me to Detroit and I worked
Speaker 1: in the car business. But that that's how it all
Speaker 1: got stored. So did you ever invent fingernails? Scissor fingernail
Speaker 1: clippers that catch your fingernail. Psonally, I learned many years
Speaker 1: later when I thought I would do it, that someone
Speaker 1: else had already done it. But he was impressed. You
Speaker 1: got the job. I got the job, and you were
Speaker 1: off to the races. When we come back, Jeff Jones
Speaker 1: on creating a more inclusive work environment, which is topic
Speaker 1: A these days. You're listening to Next Question with Katie Curic,
Speaker 1: and today I'm sharing an interview with H and R
Speaker 1: Block CEO Jeff Jones. It was recorded live back in February,
Speaker 1: before COVID completely changed our worlds. But listening back on
Speaker 1: this conversation, it's interesting how much we covered that is
Speaker 1: so relevant right now. So let's pick back up with
Speaker 1: Jeff tell us a really quickly. Your resume started in
Speaker 1: the agency business at Burnett over about ten years. Um
Speaker 1: was actually part of a couple of entrepreneurial ventures that
Speaker 1: were that were reasonably successful. And then you know, if
Speaker 1: I just jumped closer to the end, I had an
Speaker 1: amazing opportunity to be the chief marketing officer at Target.
Speaker 1: Went to Target's a huge job, an amazing job, and
Speaker 1: did very well there. Did you do all those cool
Speaker 1: ads with the red and white. Well, the good news
Speaker 1: is Target always does lots of cool ads, so it
Speaker 1: probably depends on which one. I feel like. I feel
Speaker 1: like they really changed, you know, when they started to
Speaker 1: be a cooler place to shop and everyone's calling it
Speaker 1: targe and their ads were Their ads just seemed to
Speaker 1: be much more, um, I don't know, eye popping. If
Speaker 1: you will, it's fun to watch. Were you a part
Speaker 1: of that, Please say yes, because otherwise I'll be very no.
Speaker 1: I think I was there at the beginning of them
Speaker 1: getting their mojo back again. The company now is doing
Speaker 1: tremendously well, which is great to see. I also was
Speaker 1: there at the darkest days of Target, so I was
Speaker 1: responsible for helping the company navigate out of its data breach.
Speaker 1: I was there leading crisis communication in the era where
Speaker 1: we decided to open up our restrooms to transgender, which
Speaker 1: was incredibly controversial the company. So I was there kind
Speaker 1: of ups and downs. I then got recruited to go
Speaker 1: be the president of Uber and it was an incredible opportunity.
Speaker 1: Very conflicted to leave what I was doing at Target,
Speaker 1: i went, and after seven months I left over a
Speaker 1: big ethical stand and so here I am at this
Speaker 1: point in my career where I love what I'm doing.
Speaker 1: I'm doing incredibly well at Target. I make this risky
Speaker 1: leap and it doesn't work out. What exactly happened and
Speaker 1: we don't have to dwell on this, But obviously you
Speaker 1: went there, you were president for seven months. You knew
Speaker 1: that the culture probably needed some fine tuning, to say
Speaker 1: the least, So you went there and what happened. So
Speaker 1: I was I was hired to help the company grow up.
Speaker 1: And there's so many things about Uber that are and
Speaker 1: we're incredibly positive, but it's probably have been well documented now,
Speaker 1: you know. And I think the start of it is
Speaker 1: what people call a grow at all cost culture, and
Speaker 1: that's true. And so I was there when the company
Speaker 1: was really struggling through. You know, what are the right
Speaker 1: things to do in terms of culture and how women
Speaker 1: are treated, and what growth means and all kinds of
Speaker 1: things that have been well written about. At the end
Speaker 1: of the day, you only have two things that matter,
Speaker 1: your reputation and your relationships. And when I when I
Speaker 1: realized that I wasn't able to make the change I
Speaker 1: was brought there to make, I had to decide to leave.
Speaker 1: And why weren't you did were you not given the
Speaker 1: authority because clearly it was a company that was right
Speaker 1: for change, that really needed somebody of your stature or
Speaker 1: experience to come in and say this is how we
Speaker 1: make things better. Uh, did you just run up against
Speaker 1: people that that weren't going to allow you to do
Speaker 1: what you felt needed to be done. I think generally
Speaker 1: growth was the priority. And you know what's interesting now is,
Speaker 1: in hindsight, I've been gone for three years, you know,
Speaker 1: way longer than I was actually there. But I think
Speaker 1: not only Uber has heard the message, but Silicon Valleys
Speaker 1: heard of the message, and tech in general's heard the message.
Speaker 1: So I was at the very beginning. I was going
Speaker 1: to say, you were a little bit ahead of your
Speaker 1: time in terms of understanding the importance of culture. And
Speaker 1: I want to talk about that in a moment, But
Speaker 1: first you were. You became CEO of H and R
Speaker 1: Block in two thousand and seventeen, and I know that
Speaker 1: during your first six months you traveled around visiting H
Speaker 1: and R Block franchises to really understand the company, the
Speaker 1: culture of the people. Why was that so important to you? Well,
Speaker 1: that's where it happens in a large part. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think you know, we are a company that is
Speaker 1: rewriting its story. Very storied company, been around for a
Speaker 1: long time, very well known, sixty five years, sixty five years, UM.
Speaker 1: But as as I say to people, it's a crisis
Speaker 1: of relevance. Very financially successful, and you know, I think
Speaker 1: as a leader, you have to listen a lot. And
Speaker 1: there's no better way to listen than to be with
Speaker 1: people on the front line serving clients. And you know,
Speaker 1: we have a huge footprint. So you have what ten thousand,
Speaker 1: ten thousand UM franchises or what do you call them,
Speaker 1: ten offices about a third of them or franchise owned.
Speaker 1: And so I think my first six or seven months,
Speaker 1: I went to fifty or sixty different cities, and you know,
Speaker 1: we operate in every single congressional district in America, so
Speaker 1: we're in really small communities a lot of places. And
Speaker 1: you know, that's where I wanted to be. I didn't
Speaker 1: want to just come to New York, in Chicago and Boston.
Speaker 1: I wanted to go to the heartland of America and
Speaker 1: really hear about this relationship that we have with people
Speaker 1: because it's such a personal topic. Uh. And so it's
Speaker 1: an incredible way to start. But if I rewind a second,
Speaker 1: when I first got the call about going to H
Speaker 1: and R Block, I literally said to the recruiter, I
Speaker 1: have a really common name. Are you sure you've got
Speaker 1: the right Jeff Jones? Because I'm not a financial services guy.
Speaker 1: You know, I have no tax experience whatsoever. And I
Speaker 1: literally thought they'd got the wrong person. And I fell
Speaker 1: in love with the purpose of the company, and I
Speaker 1: fell in love with the problem. And the problem again
Speaker 1: is how do we transform this company to on today's terms.
Speaker 1: So in terms of why you became less relevant, why
Speaker 1: H and R block is fighting for relevance, what was it?
Speaker 1: Was it basically technology, just as we've seen, you know,
Speaker 1: Barnes and Noble and Amazon and all the all these
Speaker 1: sort of conflicts between brick brick and mortar stores and
Speaker 1: getting things online. Was that basically the nub of the problem.
Speaker 1: I think there are three main problems. The first one was,
Speaker 1: for a bunch of retail operating reasons, our quality wasn't
Speaker 1: as good as it used to be. Related to that,
Speaker 1: we had just been raising prices year over year over year,
Speaker 1: really as an effort to grow revenue and deliver quarterly earnings.
Speaker 1: And then the third thing was the services that we
Speaker 1: were providing, and like so many legacy companies, we had
Speaker 1: been afraid of digital. And it's a weird market because
Speaker 1: it's not like traditional retail of everyone in the country
Speaker 1: that gets their taxes done go somewhere for help, so
Speaker 1: it's not most people do taxes themselves with software. But
Speaker 1: we can't compete if we're not relevant and offer people
Speaker 1: choice and transparency about how this is supposed to happen.
Speaker 1: And I know that's been the focal point of your
Speaker 1: latest ads, kind of knowing how much you're going to
Speaker 1: pay to get your taxes done at the very beginning
Speaker 1: of the process, instead of being surprised at the very end.
Speaker 1: It's so crazy. But when we talk to consumers, he said,
Speaker 1: it's the only thing I buy in my life that
Speaker 1: I have no idea what I'm going to pay until
Speaker 1: after it's over. And we just said, that doesn't make
Speaker 1: any sense. Why can't we make pricing completely transparent whether
Speaker 1: you're online or in person and remove that mystery because
Speaker 1: it's already a stressful topic. You shouldn't have to stress
Speaker 1: about the price. But what about technology, Jeff, I mean,
Speaker 1: how are you how is it changing your business and
Speaker 1: how are you embracing it and combining it with your
Speaker 1: legacy professional services. Yeah, it's a great question. I mean
Speaker 1: there's lots of ways. I would almost say in every
Speaker 1: way it's impacting our business on the basic level. That's
Speaker 1: things like having great d I Y software to compete
Speaker 1: against into it in turbo tax. It's also what we
Speaker 1: call virtual tax prep, which I really believe is the
Speaker 1: next the next battle that will happen where what you
Speaker 1: talk to somebody on the phone and they help you,
Speaker 1: but you don't have to necessary go into the exact office.
Speaker 1: So in today's world, it shouldn't be so paper and
Speaker 1: manual all the time if you don't want it to
Speaker 1: be so, why can't everything be an a p I
Speaker 1: automatically upload to a tax preparer, engage with them on
Speaker 1: your mobile device, let us do all the work. You
Speaker 1: e sign and then you're done, but you didn't have
Speaker 1: to go anywhere to do it. But does that defeat
Speaker 1: the purpose of this idea of relationship building because I
Speaker 1: know one of the things that you're really focused on
Speaker 1: is how to make how to build a community, and
Speaker 1: how to emphasize personal relationships over uh, you know, doing
Speaker 1: things digitally. Yeah. I mean the way we think about
Speaker 1: it is we have to make it easier, and we
Speaker 1: have to make it faster, and we have to make
Speaker 1: it more personalized, no matter what the channel. If it's
Speaker 1: a digital engagement, then just knowing who you are and
Speaker 1: making it faster because you don't have to retype in
Speaker 1: all of your information. That's a way of relationship. Clearly
Speaker 1: for millions and millions and millions of consumers, they still
Speaker 1: want to sit down with somebody and and have that
Speaker 1: really intimate conversation, and there's there's no better place to
Speaker 1: do that than block. You all recently received a score
Speaker 1: from the Human Rights Campaign that does great work on
Speaker 1: it on its corporate equality and decks, and you've been
Speaker 1: recognized as one of the best places to work for
Speaker 1: lgbt Q equality. Um, you have said being inclusive isn't enough.
Speaker 1: What more needs to be done. The way we think
Speaker 1: about it is to be a place where people feel
Speaker 1: a sense of belonging. So I think is you know,
Speaker 1: this journey has happened for years and years. It started
Speaker 1: out being more diverse, which means a lot of different things,
Speaker 1: and then it was how do we be more inclusive?
Speaker 1: What we say, a block is we want to be
Speaker 1: a place that everybody feels safe and they can be
Speaker 1: their full authentic self, that they feel like they belong there,
Speaker 1: which is a great thing to say, But how do
Speaker 1: you make it happen? I mean, there are policy changes
Speaker 1: that we've made, and many of those are what you
Speaker 1: have to do to be recognized by HRC. But I
Speaker 1: think the most important thing that we do is to
Speaker 1: recognize the discomfort and do everything we can to have
Speaker 1: the right conversations. Because whether you're managing one other person
Speaker 1: or in you're in a large group, people are afraid
Speaker 1: to ask someone a question or to learn more about
Speaker 1: the differences, or to talk about what differences are. And
Speaker 1: from you know, me trying to lead against it to
Speaker 1: creating the right forms for people to have those conversations,
Speaker 1: that's where we see the power of change really happening.
Speaker 1: The other thing that that you care about is purpose.
Speaker 1: And I'm just curious why is it important in companies,
Speaker 1: including a tax preparation services company to have purpose? And
Speaker 1: are you afraid as people all jump on this bandwagon
Speaker 1: that's it, that it will feel disingenuous us to both
Speaker 1: the consumers and to employees. Yeah, I think that's definitely
Speaker 1: a watch out. I mean, you know, the the shift
Speaker 1: that we made was to not have a statement of
Speaker 1: vision or mission, but to have a statement of purpose.
Speaker 1: And that was really intentional change in language, because so
Speaker 1: many times vision mission things are written and they just
Speaker 1: they kind of go on a wall or a cup
Speaker 1: and they don't really live every day. But people want purpose,
Speaker 1: and so companies are people, and so when we change
Speaker 1: that language, and we wrote our purpose is to provide
Speaker 1: help and inspire confidence in our clients and communities everywhere.
Speaker 1: The first thing we did was talked to the Block family.
Speaker 1: Henry Block was in the later years and was suffering
Speaker 1: from dementia, so he wasn't able to be clear with me,
Speaker 1: but his son Tom Block, was to really know, we
Speaker 1: don't want to just make something up because there's a
Speaker 1: new CEO. We want to rediscover who we've been at
Speaker 1: our best. And that's a way that we really guard
Speaker 1: against our purpose feeling like it's trite or just another statement.
Speaker 1: I guess your primary purpose right now, if you want
Speaker 1: to talk about that in general, is is how to
Speaker 1: combat loneliness and social isolation. And that's something you saw
Speaker 1: on two in two separate ways with with your dad
Speaker 1: after your mom died, and with your daughters as teenagers.
Speaker 1: So tell us about that. You know, it's it's such
Speaker 1: a big ambition for us, and it's not intuitive, you know,
Speaker 1: when you think about this company's platform and where can
Speaker 1: we have an impact in the world. There's so many
Speaker 1: things that happen in the company that are fantastic, but
Speaker 1: I just said, we have to have something bigger, that's
Speaker 1: more systemic. That's something we're all facing in our lives,
Speaker 1: and that for us is this idea of people are lonely.
Speaker 1: We recognize because of our humans in all of our offices,
Speaker 1: we're sitting down with people and every year having these conversations.
Speaker 1: It's about twelve million hours of conversations every year on
Speaker 1: really intimate topics. That's the beginning of recognizing that talking
Speaker 1: to people and connections in kind of the places where
Speaker 1: people convene and making them better. We want to spark
Speaker 1: a movement to recognize loneliness as a problem and human
Speaker 1: connections is a way to help solve it. When we
Speaker 1: come back office hours with Jeff, let's return to my
Speaker 1: conversation with H and R Block CEO Jeff Jones which
Speaker 1: was recorded back in February in front of a live
Speaker 1: audience in Manhattan. Remember when those were a thing. We
Speaker 1: have some great career questions for all these young people
Speaker 1: who are trying to figure out what they're doing with
Speaker 1: their lives. And so it's it's office hours with Jeff.
Speaker 1: Do you do this or are we just doing this?
Speaker 1: Do you do office hours, which Jeff I actually do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you do it, That's what I thought. I was like,
Speaker 1: this is your idea, not ours, right. Vincent asked what
Speaker 1: is the best way to save money when you're starting
Speaker 1: out in your career. You know, when you're starting in
Speaker 1: your career and you don't have a lot of money
Speaker 1: to save, but you have to pay yourself first. And
Speaker 1: that's the best advice that anyone's given recognizing make it
Speaker 1: a priority, and it doesn't matter how small it is.
Speaker 1: People think there's they've got to save lots of money,
Speaker 1: a dollar five dollars set aside, starting to demonstrate the
Speaker 1: power of investing and compounding. But just get started. You'll
Speaker 1: be you'll be shocked five twenty years from now what
Speaker 1: you've been able to accomplish by starting very small and
Speaker 1: also sacrifice a few things. You know, sometimes you just
Speaker 1: can't buy that dress or go to that coffee. Okay,
Speaker 1: Amanda ask I have a seven month old? How do
Speaker 1: you juggle family in a career. I love asking a
Speaker 1: man this question because it is perpetually asked of women
Speaker 1: and never of ment. So how do you do it all? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, I recognize that you can't
Speaker 1: do it all, and so early in my career I
Speaker 1: had a great boss who just taught me that this
Speaker 1: is a dilemma for everyone. It shows up in different
Speaker 1: ways for different people, and you have to take the
Speaker 1: stress off trying to fix it. That you're going to
Speaker 1: have good weeks, good months, good years, and bad weeks,
Speaker 1: bad months, bad years, and that's normal, that's okay for
Speaker 1: that to happen. I have tried so hard in my
Speaker 1: career to just make it a priority to be with
Speaker 1: my family. And when you make it a priority, that
Speaker 1: means I'm want to leave at noon to go do
Speaker 1: something and I'm want to come back or I'll be
Speaker 1: online later, and I think there's this perception that I
Speaker 1: can't or something will happen if I do um. And
Speaker 1: I think you just have to just have to do
Speaker 1: what you believe in play offense with your career, and
Speaker 1: make your own priority decisions. Rosie asked, I'd love advice
Speaker 1: on how to identify the next challenge or goal, especially
Speaker 1: after a promotion, after settling into the new role. Now
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what I should be working towards. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think what what I recognize in other people that
Speaker 1: really starts to distinguish them in their careers are people
Speaker 1: who just take initiative, Uh, they decide what they want
Speaker 1: to work on. They are incredibly curious, and I think
Speaker 1: the more you make yourself a lifelong learner and you
Speaker 1: take the initiative to decide and have ideas and recommendations,
Speaker 1: those become skills that really start to separate you from
Speaker 1: the pack instead of always being wait for someone to
Speaker 1: tell you, you know, here's what you should work on.
Speaker 1: But I also think that sometimes people are so focused
Speaker 1: on the next they don't do a good job with
Speaker 1: the job they have. And I think that that's the
Speaker 1: best way actually to get promoted and to move forward
Speaker 1: is to impress somebody with the job you're do, wing
Speaker 1: that you're actually supposed to do, instead of looking ahead
Speaker 1: to what am I going to do next? Right? Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I mean, if I look back in my career, there's
Speaker 1: so many times I wish I would have told myself
Speaker 1: to be more patient. Um and if you think about
Speaker 1: you know, it's weird to say it this way, but
Speaker 1: you're going to work in some way for fifty or
Speaker 1: sixty years, no matter what definition of work that looks like.
Speaker 1: So you know, have a long view, be patient, demonstrate curiosity,
Speaker 1: be a lifelong learner. I think those are great things
Speaker 1: to set you up for success. And in fact, that's
Speaker 1: a good segue to Dwiena's question, what was the first
Speaker 1: step you took when you knew what you wanted your
Speaker 1: career to be? What fueled you and what did you
Speaker 1: do next? I mean, I think just that the whole
Speaker 1: sense of this is a long journey. You know. I
Speaker 1: had a manager in my first job at Leo Burnett.
Speaker 1: The company was going through some layoffs and I was terrified.
Speaker 1: This guy's name was Michael Would, And Michael said to me, listen,
Speaker 1: you're going to get fired someday, you know, so don't
Speaker 1: make that such a big deal. He said, what you
Speaker 1: have to learn is job security is knowing you're good
Speaker 1: enough to get another job. And the moment you take
Speaker 1: ownership for this is about your career and what do
Speaker 1: you want to do and be insanely curious about learning
Speaker 1: new things. It just enables a future that doesn't have
Speaker 1: the pressure of oh my gosh, I have to have
Speaker 1: it all figured out. That's good advice. I think it
Speaker 1: also builds a lot of confidence. I think that's right,
Speaker 1: not worrying about like when the you know when it's
Speaker 1: going to all be over, right, then I think it
Speaker 1: can affect your day to day performance. And finally, John
Speaker 1: wants to know John Muelner, who I happened to be
Speaker 1: married to. What business leaders do you most admire? Oprah
Speaker 1: is at the very top of my list. Why um
Speaker 1: I have I have an obsession with Oprah. I commissioned
Speaker 1: a painting of her that hangs in my dining room.
Speaker 1: That's super weird. It's too much time for now, but
Speaker 1: I can tell you the story about I had an
Speaker 1: opportunity to have lunch at her home and I showed
Speaker 1: her the picture of herself and which did she call security? Well,
Speaker 1: this is what I said to her. I said. We
Speaker 1: sat down and I said, I want to show you
Speaker 1: something and you're either going to give me a hugger
Speaker 1: call security and she took her sunglasses off and she
Speaker 1: pinched in on the picture and she said, why did
Speaker 1: you do that? And we had a great conversation about
Speaker 1: it exactly. You know, I think I spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time in Chicago in early years, and I just
Speaker 1: love her life story of where she's been and all
Speaker 1: the way she's found to be bigger than herself and
Speaker 1: to give back and stand for important things. Um, she's
Speaker 1: She's at the top of the list. And are there
Speaker 1: any other people who you've met along the way who
Speaker 1: you deeply admire? For sure? I mean I'm a student
Speaker 1: of business. I I love so many what I would
Speaker 1: call younger companies today. Um, you know the Harry's Razors.
Speaker 1: I love Katrina Lake at St Fix. I mean just
Speaker 1: this new wave of business leaders that are really building
Speaker 1: great businesses, not just doing something to flip and sell.
Speaker 1: Uh So I think Katrina would be someone else really
Speaker 1: high on my list. You know, there's a concept called
Speaker 1: reverse mentoring where people who have been around a while
Speaker 1: learned from these younger people who are doing cool things.
Speaker 1: And I can't think of a better position for H
Speaker 1: and R. Block to be in then to incorporate some
Speaker 1: of the practices and philosophy of some of these young,
Speaker 1: you know, startups to getting back to your original issue,
Speaker 1: increase and and make sure that you remain relevant. That's
Speaker 1: exactly right. We've embraced the entrepreneurial community in Kansas City
Speaker 1: in a big way, from making investments to being mentors
Speaker 1: and reverse mentoring. It's exactly the right idea. I mean,
Speaker 1: when you bump into people a lot that just think
Speaker 1: about speed and innovation and problem solving totally different than you,
Speaker 1: there's a lot to be learned. All right. Well, Jeff Jones,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming. It was really fun
Speaker 1: getting to know you, so thank you, good luck, Thanks
Speaker 1: everybody that was Jeff Jones, CEO of H and R Block,
Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for listening to this special
Speaker 1: surprise episode of Next Question. If you're not already, you
Speaker 1: can subscribe to the podcast and my limited series with
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Speaker 1: and my Next Question, I'm Katie Currik. Thank you all
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