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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from coast to coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Lieutenant Colonel Bob McGinnis, US Army retired as with US

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Speaker 1: as we continue to delve into artificial intelligence and the

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Speaker 1: AI arms race with China. I'm reading about artificial intelligence

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Speaker 1: and what are the terms? It comes up now and

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Speaker 1: again is algorithmic forever wars. Algorithmic forever wars. What does

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Speaker 1: that mean? Well, algorithic you know, of course, that's the

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Speaker 1: machine language that we often associate with artificial intelligence, whether

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Speaker 1: it's you know, more of the deep thinking or the

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Speaker 1: deep you know, algorithms that are overlapping and trying to

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Speaker 1: you know, learn about the environment. Whether it's a like

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Speaker 1: a self driving automobile, it's constantly, you know, it's programmed

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Speaker 1: with an algorithm that says this is what to do,

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Speaker 1: but it's also learning about the pathway ahead and being diverted.

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Speaker 1: So deep learning is part of this whole effort. And

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Speaker 1: of course it's it's tethered to the Internet of Things,

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Speaker 1: so it can track the way ahead and anticipate problems.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's about the science of computers and how

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Speaker 1: you know, certainly in my lifetime you were talking about

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Speaker 1: Woodstock and I started West Point that summer, you know,

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Speaker 1: not far from Woodstock, and fifty years ago I was

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Speaker 1: walking around as a young kid at West Point with

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Speaker 1: these big cards, punch cards, and it was very simple

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Speaker 1: algorithms that we were using to do simple math. And

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Speaker 1: look what we have today. I mean, you know, in

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Speaker 1: my pocket, I carry around this iPhone that is incredibly complex,

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Speaker 1: talks to the world, that tells me how to get

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Speaker 1: from point A to point B, that does my finances.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is just the cusp of a future

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Speaker 1: revolution that's going to transform everything that we do. Artificial

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Speaker 1: intelligence is the way of the future. As I said

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of the program tonight, you know what

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Speaker 1: you know, the CEO of Google said, it's it's as

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Speaker 1: important to us as electricity and fire. And as Stephen

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Speaker 1: Hawking says, it's the biggest event in human history. I

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Speaker 1: don't know that it's really sees people as yet, but

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Speaker 1: we're beginning to sense it around us that things are

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Speaker 1: just going to be very, very different in the future.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned Google. Are you concerned about Google's seeming cooperation

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Speaker 1: with the government in China? You know, creating well, first

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Speaker 1: of all, helping China to to censor the Internet in

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Speaker 1: that country and also to develop applications which seem intended

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Speaker 1: to despy on their people. Of course, you know, the

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Speaker 1: chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Dunford, you know, met with

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Speaker 1: Google this past week for that very same reason, Richard,

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Speaker 1: because we don't want Google helping the Chinese military, and

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Speaker 1: in fact we believe that you know, what they're doing

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Speaker 1: with the major investment in artificial intelligence, what they're doing

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Speaker 1: with trying to contain especially the weakers in the last

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Speaker 1: is just indicative of how they want to capture their

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Speaker 1: entire culture. They want to use this Internet of things,

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Speaker 1: in their five G technology to trace absolutely everything that

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Speaker 1: their people do. You know, it's big brother, it's nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty four. This is where we are almost at supercomputing, nanotechnologies,

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Speaker 1: genomen you know, gene splicing, robotics, three D printers. This

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Speaker 1: technology is here and now, and it's a very serious

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Speaker 1: thing that we have to get our hands around. And

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Speaker 1: that's why you know, people that are thinking about the

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Speaker 1: anxieties associated with AI, whether or not AI is safe.

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Speaker 1: Is AI going to create monsters that we cannot control?

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm looking at a copy of the DoD

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Speaker 1: Department of Defense Directive three thousand point or nine. Autonomy

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Speaker 1: and Weapons systems. You know, you talk about transformers, autonomous transformers.

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Speaker 1: Are we going to make sure that we have a

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Speaker 1: red button on every autonomous transformer to stop it from

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Speaker 1: going off into the deep? You know? Decision making about

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Speaker 1: killing people? I hope so it says that in the

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Speaker 1: regulation we're not going to allow that to happen. I

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Speaker 1: will assure you, given what I know about the Chinese,

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Speaker 1: they aren't going to put that sort of caveat on

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Speaker 1: their systems. And what might that happen? Because these systems

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Speaker 1: are going to learn and learn and learn. They're going

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Speaker 1: to get far more intelligent than any human being can be,

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Speaker 1: even the hawkings of the world. They're going to be

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Speaker 1: doing things that we just can't even imagine. And that's

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Speaker 1: where we're going. And that's what I'm concerned about, Semi

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Speaker 1: autonomous drone, semi autonomous fighter craft, semi autonomous I don't know,

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Speaker 1: nuclear submarines. Is that what it's going to come down

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Speaker 1: to is the decision whether to rain down nuclear armageddon

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Speaker 1: on a population will be left to some mathematical equation,

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Speaker 1: an analgorithm, Well, the semi autonomous suggests that there's a

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Speaker 1: human in the loop. You know, I would be more

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Speaker 1: concerned about the autonomous, But yeah, I think that's where

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Speaker 1: we're going. You know. You know, it's quite possible that

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Speaker 1: because those decisions are going to be made at a

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Speaker 1: quicker level, just because of the massive data and the

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Speaker 1: ability to pull information, that nuclear deterrence will change. You know,

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Speaker 1: we may make a decision because of what our artificially

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Speaker 1: intelligent decision making tools are telling us about another country's

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Speaker 1: nuclear weapons and whether or not they're about to launch.

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Speaker 1: You know, we'll try to anticipate inside what they're thinking

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Speaker 1: based upon massive data and the history of these individuals

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Speaker 1: that we happen to know that are inside these bunkers

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Speaker 1: and foreign lands. You know, this is this is kind

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Speaker 1: of where we are heading to. Now, how do you

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Speaker 1: control that? You know, That's what we're trying to do

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Speaker 1: with the Pentagon's directives. That's what we're trying to do

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Speaker 1: with the New York University, I think Google, that's what

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Speaker 1: they're trying to do, is to how do you contain

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Speaker 1: this monster that wants to break out and quite frankly

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Speaker 1: become incredibly capable and dictate. You know, there's a phenomenon

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Speaker 1: that we've we haven't discussed as yet. It's about how

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Speaker 1: AI is going to influence future culturists called technological singularity.

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Speaker 1: How is all of this massive information and this access

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Speaker 1: to anything about any time going to change mankind and civilization?

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Speaker 1: I would argue, is going to change us in a

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Speaker 1: way that you know, potentially may not be so good.

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Speaker 1: That's what I'm concerned about. And I think the ethicis

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Speaker 1: in this country ought to be concerned about those concerned

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Speaker 1: about civil liberties, ought to be concerned. Government ought to

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Speaker 1: be engaged in this totally and try to put firewalls

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Speaker 1: up to prevent AI from becoming a monster that is

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Speaker 1: creating even worse monsters. And I think that it's real possible.

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Speaker 1: Keep in mind that AIS holy grail is what we

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Speaker 1: call artificial general intelligence AGI. This is where the AI

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Speaker 1: device becomes self aware conscience. They can solve virtually any

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Speaker 1: problem as long as they have all access to all data,

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Speaker 1: and they become you know, they create themselves to be

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Speaker 1: smarter all the time because they never stop learning. This

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Speaker 1: is a future that you know, a few years ago

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Speaker 1: we never would have dreamed of. And I don't think

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Speaker 1: that Huxley or any of the visionaries of the past

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Speaker 1: have even thought about where we're going in future wars.

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Speaker 1: Do you see it breaking out something like this robot

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Speaker 1: attacking or killing other robots in the battlefield, or our

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Speaker 1: civilian populations going to be targeted by taking out let's say,

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Speaker 1: the power grid, which you know, by some estimates, if

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Speaker 1: we had an EMP event in the United States, for example,

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Speaker 1: within the first year some estimates, we were so dependent

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Speaker 1: on electricity you could have a fatality rate of something

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Speaker 1: like ninety in one year. Is that the future of warfare? Oh? Yes,

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Speaker 1: I think EMP is a real possibility. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: not just from the North Koreans, of the Iranians, the

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Speaker 1: Chinese and the Russians. We're all aware of how to

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Speaker 1: light up an MP over a metro or a country

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Speaker 1: area and then fry all the electronics. And you know,

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Speaker 1: we're beginning to get serious, but we're far behind getting

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Speaker 1: serious about it now. Your scenario, Richard, I think is

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Speaker 1: important here. And let me give you a bit of

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Speaker 1: historic perspective. Back in World War One, we faced a

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Speaker 1: German navy that was sinking civilian ships and they weren't

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Speaker 1: ensuring the safety of the crew of the passengers. We

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Speaker 1: call that barbaric, and rightly so. And so after that war,

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Speaker 1: we negotiated international treaties that said we would then unrestricted

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Speaker 1: submarine warfare. Well what happened after December the seventh, nineteen

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Speaker 1: forty one. Well, that fateful day and I was just

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Speaker 1: there a week ago at Pearl Harbor, the Japanese attacked

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Speaker 1: Ford Island and destroyed our fleet. Now what did we do?

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Speaker 1: Within six hours, we disregarded our international treaties and we

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Speaker 1: went after with our own submarines the Japanese civilian merchant fleet.

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Speaker 1: So if we go to war, we may have all

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Speaker 1: these great rules and regulations governing the use of autonomous

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Speaker 1: or semi autonomous weapons, But when the Chinese used them

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Speaker 1: against us, guess what will immediately, in almost uncertainty, launch

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Speaker 1: similar platforms against them? And then Katie bar the door.

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing though, Bobby, in the not your distant future,

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Speaker 1: you won't need an EMP to take out a power grid.

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Speaker 1: You just you send some sort of I mean, the

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Speaker 1: wars will be fought with malware. No, I think you're right,

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Speaker 1: unless we segment our power grids and other our financial

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Speaker 1: networks and so forth, if we make them vulnerable as

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Speaker 1: they are today to cyber malware, to cyber attacks. Because

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Speaker 1: this is really costing, certainly in the United States, arguably

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Speaker 1: trillions of dollars on an annual basis. It's incredibly expensive.

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Speaker 1: How we're lost control over a lot of our own data.

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Speaker 1: We've got to get serious. I would argue that this

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Speaker 1: is probably the defining moment the next couple of years.

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Speaker 1: If we can't wrestle control over how this data is

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Speaker 1: linked around the world, and how we're going to bring

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Speaker 1: some sort of rule and regulation and constraint and keep

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Speaker 1: criminal syndicates and keep adversarial nations away from our data,

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Speaker 1: then we will increase in vulnerability almost exponentially into the

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Speaker 1: near future. This is serious. I don't see nearly enough

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Speaker 1: concern on Capitol Hill that I think we ought to have.

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Speaker 1: I don't hear anybody talking about this unca Span or

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Speaker 1: anywhere in a more traditional war. You know, you simply

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Speaker 1: you kill the enemy. But who is the enemy in

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Speaker 1: a conflict when you have, let's face it, national boundaries

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Speaker 1: are being erased, you have no fixed battle fields, no

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Speaker 1: conventional adversaries. Oh, you're right, there will not be a

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Speaker 1: fixed boundary. You know, look in space. You know, the

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Speaker 1: Chinese have a very robust space program. You know, they

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Speaker 1: have an orbit. Now, they have anti satellite systems. They

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Speaker 1: recognize back in nineteen ninety ninety one when we demonstrated

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Speaker 1: against Sodom has seen a capability of marshaling a massive

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Speaker 1: force and expeditiously discharging him up to Baghdad. That our

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Speaker 1: dependence upon satellites and our ability to move massive forces

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Speaker 1: was a sophistication that both Beijing and Moscow liked. They

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Speaker 1: went to school on us. They spent the following several

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Speaker 1: decades repairing that problem. So now they intend to knock

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Speaker 1: our satellites out of orbit to destroy them, and of

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Speaker 1: course we've seen something recently that suggests that certainly Moscow

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Speaker 1: has such a capability. I don't have any doubt that

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Speaker 1: the Chinese do. So they would they would blind us

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Speaker 1: basically by taking out our satellites, and of course they

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Speaker 1: have their own constellation which we would have to take

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Speaker 1: out in turn. But then the whole cyber issue using

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Speaker 1: whether it's you know, the cables that they monitor in

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Speaker 1: the ocean floor all the time. We catch the Russians

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Speaker 1: doing that, We catch the Chinese doing it. These are

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Speaker 1: things that are really transforming who we are, and it's

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Speaker 1: going to be hard to fix. Listen to more Coast

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Speaker 1: to Coast AM every weeknight at one am Eastern, and

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Speaker 1: go to Coast to Coast am dot com for more