WEBVTT - Part One: Cecil Rhodes: The First Proud Boy 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:12.040 What's in conquering my dominating my colonial colony. Jesus, I 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:14.880 don't know that. We're talking to Robert Evans behind the 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:20.120 Bastards badly introduced podcast about even worse people. Today we're 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:24.720 doing another motherfucking episode about white English dudes in Africa 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:29.520 in the eighteen hundreds. So strap the fuck in everybody. Uh, 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:32.960 my guest today say you don't know how to do 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.680 an introt to a podcast ever? Again, that was phenomenal. Continue, 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:40.960 thank you, thank you. My guest today, Jason Petty a 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:45.960 k A pro West West. I'm coming in blind. So 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:48.120 I had no idea we were doing another white colonial 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:51.400 in Africa. This is we're not We're not doing another 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:55.279 white colonial in Africa. Actually, we're doing the white colonial 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:58.240 in Africa. We're talking about the guy we're talking about today. 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:03.760 Problem might be the whitest man who ever lived. Um, 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:08.560 we are talking about Cecil, motherfucking Rhodes. The boy's name 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:14.520 is Cecil Cecil. Let's go Cecil. And he's the namesake 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:18.320 of Rhode disja. Um oh my god, yeah, I'll tell 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:24.280 me Rhode is named after him. Yeah, Rhoda was his 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:30.800 personal property. Um, so the Cecil Rhodes is not just 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:34.479 like an influential imperialist. He's one of like he's Hitler 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:39.679 Stalin Mao level of influential in the world. Um he is. 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:43.160 In addition to owning Rhodesia and another nation as his 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:47.800 private property, he governed a third country. He controlled of 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:51.560 the world's diamonds supply. Uh oh. And by the way, 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:56.520 he helped invent apartheid. Um, so like that that's where 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:01.880 I'm from. Apartheid. Yes, like, here we go. That's why 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:03.760 didn't know you. I didn't think about the Rhodes thing. 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:05.720 I just do it from the apotheid stuff. But yeah, 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:10.120 here we go. Yeah. Yeah, he's like he's bastard with 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:14.679 the capital be bold underlying three exclamation points. Yeah, he's 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:16.520 one of the big ones. Yeah, he's one of the 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:20.040 big ones. And he is like Mark like when you 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:23.840 see the when you see like the fucking like the fashy, 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:26.040 proud boy types out in the street. He's what every 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:28.560 every one of them wants to be. Like. Cecil Rhodes 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:33.760 lived the dream life of an imperialist. Um. Yeah, yeah, 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:37.880 it's cool stuff. Prop it's cool stuff. This is I 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:41.720 can't wait, dude, this is one of those episodes where 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:43.760 I included a bunch of quotes from him, and then 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:46.200 I had to go through the quotes and edit out 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:51.680 the inn word repeatedly because he says it a lot. Yeah, okay, 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:55.120 so like this is why I was smiling so much. 0:02:55.200 --> 0:03:00.160 I remember early on in my career there was is 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.640 this like venture capitalist guy that just really took a 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:06.520 liking to me because he's super wealthy, super white, but 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:11.960 he loved hip hop, so he was essentially trying to 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:15.200 help mentor me and my business thoughts. But he would 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:19.040 say things like I bought that company because who says 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:22.920 you can't? And then he would be like and his 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:26.280 whole thing was like, dude, that's He's like, that's the 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:28.440 money got to live by. Who says you can't? You know, 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:30.399 you just go pursue your dreams? Who says you can't 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:37.240 do it? And I just thought, okay, you're where do 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:41.119 I start? Man like you saying? I'm like you're you're 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:45.520 trying to motivate me, but you turned me to funk 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:48.280 off because I'm like, what do you mean? Who says 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:52.560 you can't? I mean, actually I know what you mean? Yeah, 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:56.280 And I'm like, no, I don't I don't know, man, 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:57.960 I don't know if I'm gonna I don't know if 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.320 I'm gonna go down this road. But yeah, that's why 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:02.000 it giggles, because I was like, yo, he was telling me, 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:03.920 this says like a good thing, Like, hey, man, who 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:07.320 says you can't? Yeah? I think it's you got one 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:09.680 of those You've got one of those reminders that we 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:12.840 all get from time to time that there are within 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:16.120 this planet, there are multiple planets, and that guy lives 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:18.320 on a different planets, on a different one. Just just 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:21.320 that's not ours. He's on the who says you can't planet, 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.440 He's on the yeah, And I'm just like I just 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:29.480 I God, okay, I guess yeah, because for me, I 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:31.760 have I do have who says you can't feelings. But 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.800 it's when I'm looking at like like like a like 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:38.760 a really fancy bag of coffee, Like it's twenty five 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:41.599 dollars for this bag of coffee, who says I can't? Like, yeah, 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:43.400 I'll get I'll get the nice coffee. I like how 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.160 he translated that into like prop speech. That's great. Yeah 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:50.040 you know I love it. Yeah, you know. Whereas with him, 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:54.120 it's like the company that makes the coffee. Yeah, yeah, 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:56.760 you know this is his family. You know, it's it's there. 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:01.520 It's their granddad's plantation in Lumbia. You know what I'm saying. 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.080 And he's like, I want a coffee company. You know 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:05.840 who says you can't. I'll just buy it from them. 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:09.200 I'll give him a good price. And that's it is 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:12.880 very appropriate because Cecil Rhodes is that guy. But he's 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:15.000 he's a step above that guy. So that guy's a 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:17.039 step above you and I we we we say that 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:19.039 when we think about buying a nice product. He thinks 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.599 about that. When Cecil Rhodes was that for Nations. Yeah, 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:24.760 he says, I can't. You know what, I'm gonna take 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:31.520 it like, I'm just gonna take this. Yeah. So this 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.359 is the guy we're getting into um and I'm gonna 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:38.479 I'm just gonna start. Cecil John Rhodes was born on 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:41.920 July five, eight fifty three, in the hilariously named town 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:43.839 of Are you ready for this? Prop Here we go, 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:50.320 Bishop Stortford in Hertfordshire, England. Um probably pronounced wrong. Who cares? 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:54.760 It's the English um Bishop not a town name, but 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:56.960 is a town name. But that's not what you should 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.320 name a town. I wish I understood that. I wish 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:04.200 I understood or like language animalogy of like British things 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:09.560 like thornberry and yeah works in stire like why yeah 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.599 Worcestershire Wooster, I think is how you're supposed to say it, 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:16.200 like yeah, like what's the wars going on with you people? 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:20.839 Why that? That obviously must be safe word and nobody 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:22.719 can figure out how to pronounce it and that's why 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:26.840 everything's so fucked up. That's a good get. Yeah, I 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:30.960 feel like I feel like we just all kind of 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:33.560 left the English alone on their island for too long 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:36.880 and that was a bad call. Yeah, because that little, 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:40.320 that little teeny island conquered the planet. Yeah, and they 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:42.960 came up with some weird things to ways to pronounce 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:46.599 words in weird ways to pronounce things yes and very 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:50.440 enizes worse. Yeah, just can't y'all have no saut just 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:53.360 add some weird stuff. Anyway, if you're English, this might 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:55.720 be a hard episode to listen to because we're we're 0:06:55.720 --> 0:07:00.440 going to be going off. But yeah, anyway, so uh 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:04.000 Cecil was the fifth son of Reverend Francis William Rhodes 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:08.279 and Luisa Peacock his best biographer, probably Robert Rotberg, calls 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:14.320 the Rhodes family circumstances modest but hardly deprived. And this 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:16.480 is something I'll probably quibble with him on a bit, 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:22.160 because modest is not how I would describe the Roads friendly. Um, 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:26.320 both sides of his family owned a significant amount of property. 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:29.040 As late as nineteen o one, the Roads siblings were 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:33.480 receiving rent payments from six D properties and bishops. That's 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:37.920 not modest, that's not modest. Yeah, it would be fair 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:40.000 to say that Cecil never worried about money in his 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.720 entire life. Um, the Roads were of modest means though 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:47.400 within the world of the British upper crust. So within 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:51.680 the social environment they existed in. They were middle class, 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.520 but they existed in the upper like five percent of 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.840 of the British nation. You know, yeah, there's there's money. 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:01.640 Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, they got they got the c 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:07.600 class Yeah exactly, Okay, got it. Yeah, they rent there 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:09.840 that like today, They're the kind of family that rinse 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:12.520 yacht's a couple of times a year but doesn't because 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.160 they just can't handle those slip fees. Yeah, got it, 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:19.280 got it. So Cecil's mother and father spawned uh. Copiously, 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:22.400 they produced nine children in very quick succession. Seven of 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:24.680 those kids survived to adulthood, which means they were pretty 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:26.840 good at being parents by the standards of the time. 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:29.040 You get seven and nine into adulthood, you're doing all right. 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:31.320 In eighteen fifties. That's pretty good for scentage. Because that 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:38.680 bodio boy, Yeah, it's a yeah no no, yeah, yeah no, 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:42.240 it should have been more like five. Really. Cecil was 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.520 child number four, the middle kid, and he was most 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:49.840 definitely his mama's boy. Um Rickett the family servant, and 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:53.000 I should say that boys named Rickett. Yeah, yeah, they 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:56.880 had a family servant named Rickett. His name Rickett. That's 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:59.160 like what you put into a show if you're making 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:01.360 fun of the British shuffle upper crust as you give 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:03.880 him a servant named Rickett. You give him a servant 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:10.560 named after a disease. Yeah, which understand was wrong, which 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:15.520 I'll putting use words randomly, very funny. Um. So yeah, 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:19.240 the family servant, Rickett later recalled he was his mother's boy, 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.800 her favorite. I mainly included that quote, yeah, just because 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:24.320 I wanted to laugh at the fact that they had 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:27.160 a servant named Rickett. Um. So Cecil was the only 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:29.800 one of his siblings whose mother called him my darling, 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:32.480 and by all accounts, she was a very nurturing mother. 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:34.920 While her children were young, she acted as their teacher, 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.680 helping them learn to read and write. Cecil's father was 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:39.959 a very different sort of parent. The couple had married 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.080 when she was twenty eight and he was thirty six, 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.160 which was unusual because that's very old for a woman 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:46.920 to get married in this period of time. Like she's 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:51.439 a spinster at um. So you would say that, like 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:54.760 he he Actually I was like, sorry, Sophie, And that's 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:59.240 just the way they talked in the back then, Sophie. 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:04.600 It's awful. I mean, low key. All of the rich 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:08.719 people back then were in the teenagers. Like that's the 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:13.400 way it worked in those days, and it was messed up. Yeah. 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.040 So you got to give Cecil's dad credit for, you know, 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:21.960 marrying someone who's an actual adult. Um, that's good. Uh so. Yeah, 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:23.880 but this did mean that he was in his fifties 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:25.800 by the time Cecil came into the picture. He was 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:29.439 not a super fun dad was a very strict disciplinarian, 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:32.000 and the children often ran to their mother for comfort. 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:36.559 Robert Rothberg's Cecil's biographer or Cecil's biographer writes, quote, Ms. 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:40.960 Rhodes was unusually skilled in establishing supportive relations. Well liked 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:43.880 by contemporaries and servants, she provided an ample measure of 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:46.800 love for her children, especially Cecil. It was that special 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:50.000 love which was the foundation of his invincible self confidence, 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:52.600 an affirmative sense of self which was both a spur 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:56.720 to accomplishment and a resilient buffer against the ravages of failure. 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:00.120 To his credit and discredit roads throughout his lifetime. Was 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:03.920 remarkably free of both guilt and shame. So his mom 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.480 is very supportive, and maybe she should have been a 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.280 little less supportive. Job. Let me tell Let me tell 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:13.240 you the parent that actually cares about their kids. Biggest 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:18.040 fear is that you were you actually showed your favorites 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.600 and like cared for one more than the other. And 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.520 then one of him is like well adjusted and wonderful, 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:27.320 and then the other ones like you know, in and 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:32.120 out of rehab, and you're like, not to shame anybody 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:34.680 for that, but you're just like or the one and 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:38.600 then like in this scenario, the one you actually unfairly 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:43.440 favored turns out to be the piece of crap you 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:46.720 was trying to avoid your saying, yeah, that's kind of 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:50.000 where where this story is a leading unfortunately. So yeah, 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:54.400 he grows up um yeah, very very very much coddled 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:57.720 by his mama. Uh this, and he grew up very 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.000 entitled as a result of this. And this is particular 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:03.080 clearly illustrated by an anecdote from his nurse when he 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:05.600 was five or six years old. She just made jam 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:07.439 and had set it up high to cool. She left 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:09.120 the room for a few minutes, and she came back, 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:11.920 the jam was gone and Cecil had clearly eaten it. 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:15.439 So I'm gonna quote her relating the rest of this story. Cecil, 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:19.240 did you eat that jam? Yes, he replied, I am sorry, 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:24.840 it's gone. It was very good. Makes some more. I 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:28.800 can't take any of this seriously. Yeah, yeah, that was 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:31.960 that was a that. This is first of all, spot 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:38.480 on great accident, um and five and he's giving orders 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:43.200 to adults. Yeah, just hey, make more. I just I 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:48.160 wish Cecil was Caesar, so our r sezel. So when 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:52.120 a nurse comes in and says you eat that jam, 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:56.800 and he goes hell yeah, mm hmm, makes him amazing. Yeah, 0:12:56.920 --> 0:13:00.880 he was seezed. Yeah. She described his attitude as superior, 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:02.720 and he just told her to make more jam and 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:07.520 walked away, whistling to his mom and asked what should 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.439 be done with a boy like that, and his mom said, 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:12.960 let him alone as long as he speaks the truth, 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.600 which is my god. Look at that point, nurse, take 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.360 your apron off and just be like, look, it's a 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:22.240 lot of rich people in this city. I'm gonna go 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:26.040 work somewhere else. I don't need this. Yeah, at that point, 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:28.040 I'm not. I would. I would not be bought. I'm 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:29.920 already bossed by you. I would not be bossed by 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:32.720 a five year old. It seems like the thing that 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.280 he needs is the thing that's done in some households 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:37.440 when you talk back to your mom or your auntie 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:40.320 and they chunk their their sandals at you. Yeah, like 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:43.559 that just the kind of yeah, not nothing that hurts, 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:45.880 but a sandal thrown at him. Yeah, just a nice 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:49.080 chunkl just real, yea chocolate exactly. Yeah, just you know, 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:51.959 just let me remind you which one of us is 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:53.880 the adult. That's the way my poles used to say. 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:56.680 I'm just gonna remind you which one of us is 0:13:56.720 --> 0:14:00.640 the adult. Yeah, so that should give you some idea 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:02.559 as to the way the kid grew up seeing himself 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.480 and other people. Um, we don't know very much about 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:07.920 like his dad personally. There are a few details that 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:10.320 I kind of find tantalizing, one of which is that 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.360 as a preacher, he was eventually a vicar um. He 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:16.520 was famous for never delivering a sermon longer than ten minutes. 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:24.080 So I grew up, grew up in a Baptist you know, 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:29.480 a Black Baptist church. Talk about ten minutes sounds great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:32.040 that that part sounds cool. And the other thing Cecil's 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.120 biographer just drops this in the biography with no added context, 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:38.640 probably because we don't have it, is that um Cecil's 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:42.520 father despised the law and raised his children to not 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:44.840 respect the law and to abide by their own more. 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:48.120 He just hated He hated the idea of going to lawyers, 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:50.880 he hated judges, he hated cops, And we don't know 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:53.160 anything about why, but that was just something they were 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:56.360 raised with a little conflicted about Cecil's daddy. Now you know, 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.520 I'm saying, like, okay, hold up, you know what I'm saying, 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.600 Like money, you know he was able to keep his 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:07.920 kids alive. Uh keep the speeches short, speech short, and 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.280 the cops. I'm like wait, and he married a full 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:14.280 grown adult, you know, like he he was married and 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:16.520 he went He wasn't at the middle school picking curls, 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:18.520 you know. Yeah, he wasn't getting married to a fifteen 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:23.720 year old at age, which a lot of dudes did. Yes. Yeah, 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:28.440 so uh Cecil's first school was was a private school 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.240 rather than a public school. And that means a different thing. Actually, 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:32.840 that means he didn't go to he didn't go to 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:35.000 like Eaton or one of the fancy schools. It means 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:36.880 a different thing, I guess in England in this period. 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.760 Um so he was always kind of insecure about the 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:42.920 fact that he went to a private school and didn't 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:44.960 get to go to one of the big fancy like 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:46.880 he he didn't get to be an Etonian. You know, 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:50.400 we talked about that in our our episodes on the 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.520 Wonga Coup, like that, that he didn't get to to 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.480 get that early introduction into like the fancy pot of 0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:00.240 the of the of the white British boys education. Um So, 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:05.680 maybe that's why he thinks he's like he's of modest. Yeah. 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:08.920 They his parents I think kept him out because his 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:12.040 health wasn't great, although that's even debated. There's a lot 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:14.320 of like argument over whether or not he was a 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:16.360 sickly kid, which I just don't care to get into 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:20.880 because it's boring. Um. Yeah, he was studious and intelligent. Um, 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:24.200 And he's overwhelmingly described as having been very moody. His 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:27.400 nurse claimed that he was never like a normal child, 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.920 although the evidence she gives for this is also baffling 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:34.520 because the thing that she she cites is that he 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:39.000 only laughed when he liked, which is like when else's 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:43.080 wait yeah, yeah, I don't understand what she was going 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:45.480 It's just you get reminders reading through this that like 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.000 oh yeah, this is like a again a different world, 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.280 like I don't understand what these people are talking about, 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.600 as like she's bitter that he didn't laugh at her job. 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:55.960 Like to me, it was like, maybe you're just not 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:59.200 funny because like your first story, Yeah, that's a warning 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.000 sign from a kid. But like the fact that he 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.080 doesn't laugh when he doesn't want to laugh, you can't 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:08.320 really Yeah, yeah, well who does laugh when they don't 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:10.800 want to laugh? You laughing light? You don't learn that 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:14.520 until you're an adult. So yeah, of course he didn't laugh. 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:16.720 I guess English kids are supposed to learn that earlier. 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:18.600 I don't know. But for a little bit more context 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:21.639 on Cecil as a boy, I'm going to read a 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:25.720 quote from the Founder, which is a biography about him. 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:28.640 When vexed, he would hide in a dark corner under 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:31.720 the staircase, not speaking for hours. He sometimes fled to 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:34.080 the family summer home with a book, poring over it 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:38.879 by the hour, together resenting imperiously any attempted intrusion. He 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:42.680 was prone to strange fits of moodiness, some vague uneasiness 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:46.000 of spirit, whose source he was never able to properly communicate, 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.800 unaware himself of whether it was melancholy or horror that 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:54.000 seized him. Occasionally, the young Rhoades rocked himself to and 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:56.480 fro and kept up a low crooning which was almost 0:17:56.520 --> 0:18:00.120 a moan, a crooning that never shaped itself into articulate word. 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.080 At such times Ms Rhodes would go to his special son, 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:05.680 and with her arms about him, she would beg him 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.320 to explain the reason of his disquiet, but he never 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:11.520 told her, locking himself. Then, as later in a private, 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:15.200 possibly solipsistic world. There were similar moments when he curled 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:18.240 up under the dining room table, remaining there invisible behind 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.840 an overflowing table cloth. Despite the frantic searching of servants. 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:24.560 He sat underneath, dinnerless through many a meal of his 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:35.120 young ears, hugging his knees. Yeah, he's sounds autistic. Thing 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:37.560 like I used to used to teach special ed and 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:40.120 like that is like, um, and I've heard a number 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:41.960 of theories as to like why it's a thing, but like, yeah, 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:44.879 I don't know, Like you can't diagnose a guy who 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:49.560 died decades before, like yeah, obviously, um, but it does 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:52.480 sound like he was, Um he was. I don't know, 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.520 Like I don't even like the term neurotypical a lot. 0:18:55.800 --> 0:18:59.400 It sounds like he was. He definitely had some there's 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:03.200 something going on there and maybe understanding yeaheah, they didn't 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:05.119 have a name for whatever that was. Well, yeah, and 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:08.040 it's and it's that's a benefit for like being seeing 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:11.080 the world differently can allow you to see options others don't. 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:13.360 And I think kind of what you with this paragraph 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:15.359 is getting at and what I've experienced with the number 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.720 of a number of the autistic folks that I worked with, 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:20.440 who would do who would have kind of behavior, coping 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.160 behaviors like that. The moment is they're taking in like 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:25.960 too much of the world, like yeah, yeah, like they're 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:29.560 they're kind of overwhelmed by all of the sensory stimuli 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:33.560 because their brain, for whatever whatever ours like other people, 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:36.399 their brain maybe filters out more or something. And maybe 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:38.639 that's part of why Cecil was able to see some 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:40.240 of the options. He was able to see. I don't know, like, 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:43.320 let's yeah, I don't want to psychoanalyze dude, but that 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:45.760 there is something to being able to have a coping 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:48.320 mechanism that maybe the rest does think are weird, but 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:51.040 we don't. But we ain't go on, I met we 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:54.720 have some mechanisms is probably a less less anger than us, 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:56.960 you know what I'm saying. Yeah, that's so yeah anyway, 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:00.960 and they're able to navigate a world U because his 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:03.760 brain works a certain way, which we don't know obviously, 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.719 is all. Yeah, it just it does sound like what 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:08.439 we can say from that paragraph is that he's he 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:11.720 was he felt overwhelmed a lot by reality as a 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:14.639 little kid to an extent that was was was unusual. 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:18.800 Um so yeah. Now, the author of that biography, Robert Rockberg, 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:22.080 is very interested in developmental psychology, and he analyzes Cecil 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:24.119 repeatedly through that lens. And I think the book was 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:25.879 written in eight eight, so there's not a lot of 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:27.800 he didn't. I think if it was written more recently, 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:30.199 he probably he might have speculated more on some of 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:32.720 the stuff that we've been talking about. UM. But he's 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:35.479 he's real into like some Freudian ship um. And he 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:37.920 notes that first and only children tend to get the 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:41.520 most attention, while middle children learned better inner personal skills, 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:45.560 and Rockberg basically writes that Cecil had elements of both 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:47.800 of these things in his own upbringing. He was the 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:49.919 middle kid, but he was also his mother's favorite, and 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:54.000 so he got special attention and he he he theorizes 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:56.040 that this kind of might explain how he grew up 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:58.600 into the political animal he became, because he was both 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:01.600 kind of surrounded by a very competitive family and he 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:04.080 learned how to do diplomacy as a result of that. 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:06.440 But he also grew up with this kind of limitless 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:10.120 self confidence that comes from being, you know, the most 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:14.280 favored child. So another major influence on the growing Cecil 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:16.080 was the fact that his father was kind of a 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:19.480 dick um, and as Cecil later confided to a friend, 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:23.240 quote my father frequently and I am now sure wisely demolished. 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:25.760 Many of my dreams is fantastical. But when I had 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:28.080 rebuilt them on more practical lines, he was ready to 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:30.399 listen again. He never failed to put his finger on 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:32.639 the weak spots, and his criticism soon taught me to 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:35.560 consider a question from every possible point of view. I 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:37.119 don't know, it sounds a little bit dickish to me 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:39.400 to like be tearing apart of kids dreams all the time, 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:42.600 but Cecil clearly was grateful for it. So yeah, yeah, 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:46.320 somehow like read like read like a little history revisionism 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:48.560 here like looking back going. I guess it was kind 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:51.520 of cool that my dad was emotionally abusive and didn't 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:54.359 let me imagine. Also, yeah, he just decided to stop 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:57.679 doing the accent. Well, yeah, I'm not going to do 0:21:57.720 --> 0:21:59.400 it all the time, So Fie, I like to think 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:01.719 that that your cat looks at you when you do 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:05.440 those accents, like who is this man? I do enjoy 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:08.960 a nice British accent. You're very good at it. Thank you, 0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:11.560 thank you. I have a real racist Italian accent to 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:17.520 they don't do it, don't do it, don't do it, Okay, 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:19.679