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Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg's sound on.

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Speaker 1: This was never an effective a gang. Of course, it

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Speaker 1: was much smaller than the fig years people of QUOVID.

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Speaker 1: It's a twenty year waste to get back to where

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Speaker 1: we started. Bloomberg Sound On, Politics, Policy, and Perspective from

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Speaker 1: DC's top Names. We've got a real threat with climate change.

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Speaker 1: If we don't do everything in our power, the prices

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Speaker 1: we're in will only rule large. Eric. We just did

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Speaker 1: more than a trillion dollars in infrastructure going put it

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Speaker 1: on the president's desk. That's a big win. Bloomberg Sound

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Speaker 1: On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio, Rely from Washington

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Speaker 1: for President Biden is about to lay down a new

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Speaker 1: mandate for vaccines among federal workers as part of a

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Speaker 1: wider plan to fight COVID that will impact private companies

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Speaker 1: with a hundred or more employees. We will bring you

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Speaker 1: the President's remarks live from the White House as soon

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Speaker 1: as he speaks, and could be at any moment. We'll

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Speaker 1: also talk about this new plan with Donna Leela, former

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Speaker 1: congresswoman who served as Secretary of Health and Human Services

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Speaker 1: in the Clinton administration, and the panel today Bloomberg Politics contributor,

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Speaker 1: Democratic analyst Genie shayan Zano and Republican strategist Ash Wright,

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Speaker 1: senior vice president of Gate twenty three Strategies, saying We've

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Speaker 1: been patients, but our patients is wearing thin. President Biden

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Speaker 1: addressing the nation on his latest plans to fight COVID,

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Speaker 1: a six pronged plan, as the White House calls it.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on Bloomberg Radio. No questions there

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Speaker 1: for the presidents. This is Bloomberg sound On on Joe Matthew.

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Speaker 1: The President spoke on schedule right at the top of

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Speaker 1: the hour as we were taking air, and of course

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Speaker 1: we promised to bring that to you in its entirety.

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Speaker 1: The six point plan, including an executive order mandating executive

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Speaker 1: branch federal employees and contractors to be vaccinated without the

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Speaker 1: option for masking and testing. Well, we also heard the

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Speaker 1: President issuing new rules for large employers, those with a

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Speaker 1: hundred or more employee used to require vaccines or regular testing.

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Speaker 1: Remembering the President said the fourth of July the US

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Speaker 1: was close to declaring its independence from COVID. White House

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Speaker 1: Press Secretary Jen Psaki was asked about that today. How

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Speaker 1: we got here in September. Well, the reason we're here

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Speaker 1: is because people have not gotten vaccinated, eighty million of them. Uh,

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Speaker 1: not because of any other reason, not because of a speech,

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Speaker 1: not because of CDC guidance, not because of any other reason.

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Speaker 1: Joining us now to talk about all of this is

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Speaker 1: an authority. Donna Leela, former Democratic congresswoman from Florida, served

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Speaker 1: as the nation's Secretary of Health and Human Services for

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Speaker 1: many years in the Clinton administration. Madam Secretary, Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Radio. We're glad to have you as the

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Speaker 1: president going in the right direction with these requirements, particularly

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Speaker 1: for private companies. Absolutely, he the president of the United States,

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Speaker 1: has just thrown the kitchen sink at the covid um epidemic.

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Speaker 1: And he's he's taken everything that public health scientists and

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Speaker 1: government officials have recommended and put it all in one

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Speaker 1: big strategy to try to get closure on COVID. And

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Speaker 1: he's basically this is an economic strategy. By the way,

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Speaker 1: this is a strategy to get our economy back up

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Speaker 1: and going. And I have always believed it's act. A

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Speaker 1: year ago, I said the only way we were going

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Speaker 1: to get this done is when American business threw up

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Speaker 1: their hands and said everybody's got to get vaccinated. That

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Speaker 1: works for us. It also means that hospital don't have

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Speaker 1: to compete against each other. If if hospital workers decide

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Speaker 1: they don't want to get vaccinated, they will not be

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Speaker 1: able to find another job in another hospital. And that's

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Speaker 1: really important. People that want to quit their jobs will

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Speaker 1: have trouble finding another job because everybody is going to

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Speaker 1: have to get vaccinated. And when he said federal contractors,

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Speaker 1: that's most of the largest corporations in this country. Just

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Speaker 1: think about the defense establishment that's going to be affected

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Speaker 1: by this, all of the large contractors to the defense departments.

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Speaker 1: And so we're talking about millions of people now being

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Speaker 1: required to get vaccinated. But I think the President made

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Speaker 1: another point that is so important, and that is everybody

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Speaker 1: talks about freedom, but no one has the right to

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Speaker 1: infect our children, particularly of those under twelve who can't

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Speaker 1: get vaccinated. Uh, they're really at risk if their families

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Speaker 1: aren't vaccinated, if the people around in their community aren't vaccinated.

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Speaker 1: And I just my heart breaks for children that are

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Speaker 1: in our hospitals um in I see us who had

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Speaker 1: no chance of getting vaccinated and are getting sick. Private

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Speaker 1: companies and contractors. To your point, private companies with a

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Speaker 1: hundred or more workers again would have to require those

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Speaker 1: employees to be vaccinated or tested weekly or face fines

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Speaker 1: I understand of fourteen thousand dollars per violation if those

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Speaker 1: were in fact pursued. Do you worry, Secretary about a

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Speaker 1: scenario in which states with low vaccination rates, like for instance,

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Speaker 1: Texas or your own state of Florida, getting into protracted

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Speaker 1: legal battles with the federal government over this. You just

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Speaker 1: heard the President say he will use his powers to

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Speaker 1: move those governors in the way out of the way.

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Speaker 1: What are we walking into here, Well, we're walking into

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Speaker 1: a big federalism debate. But you know, in many ways,

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Speaker 1: so many of these companies now have cover to demand

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Speaker 1: that their workers get vaccinated. Look, my father was a

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Speaker 1: Republican and a small businessman. He had more than a

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Speaker 1: hundred employees because he owned a couple of grocery stores.

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Speaker 1: He would have welcomed this. He would have told all

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Speaker 1: of his employees it. Back today, he would have would

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Speaker 1: have put a sign outside of his business that said,

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Speaker 1: we're all vaccinated, come on in. We heard earlier from

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Speaker 1: Jen Psaki again the White House Press secretary about the

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Speaker 1: way this would work if federal workers or others in

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Speaker 1: the mandate here do not get their vaccination. You ran

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Speaker 1: a massive federal agency. Secretary. Listen to what she said.

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Speaker 1: We expect federal employees will have about seventy five days

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Speaker 1: to be fully vaccinated. That gives people more than enough

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Speaker 1: time in our view, to start and complete their vaccination series.

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Speaker 1: If a federal worker fails to comply, they will go

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Speaker 1: through the standard HR process, which includes counseling and face

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Speaker 1: disciplinary action, face progressive disciplinary action. The HR process will

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Speaker 1: sound familiar to people working in the private sector, as secretary,

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Speaker 1: Once you get on that track, it often ends with

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Speaker 1: a firing. Is that how this should end for people

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Speaker 1: who don't comply? Look, Um, no one wants to fight

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Speaker 1: fire anyone. Everybody has to play an education role to

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Speaker 1: make sure they answer people's questions. They reassure them about

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Speaker 1: the safety of the vaccines. The last thing that any

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Speaker 1: employer in this country, whether it's the federal government, whether

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Speaker 1: it's my own Department of HHS, whether it's a university,

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Speaker 1: the last thing we want to do is fire an employee.

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Speaker 1: So I think employers are are pretty sophisticated they're going

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Speaker 1: to do everything they can to put their arms around

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Speaker 1: their employees and and figure out a way to answer

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Speaker 1: their questions to reassure them UM, but at the same

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Speaker 1: time to be very firm about protecting other employees and

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Speaker 1: the children in the community. So they're going to have

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Speaker 1: to make the case and and do it in a

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Speaker 1: thoughtful way. I've convinced a lot of people to get

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Speaker 1: vaccines more by listening to them and listening to their

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Speaker 1: concerns than by anything else. So the UM at the end,

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Speaker 1: some employees may get fired, but we're going to do

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Speaker 1: everything we can in this country to avoid that by

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Speaker 1: making the case that in protecting themselves, they're protecting those

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Speaker 1: around them and those they love and all the little

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Speaker 1: children in their communities. Who wants to take responsibility for

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Speaker 1: infecting little children? I can't think of anyone in my

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Speaker 1: community that would want to do that. It's doonisla former

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Speaker 1: Secretary of Health and Human Services. We understand each agency

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Speaker 1: here in the federal government or in the executive branch

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Speaker 1: will have its own form of attestation or proof of vaccination. Secretary,

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Speaker 1: how would you handle that if you were still at HHS,

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Speaker 1: would you want to see a vaccine card. Yeah, probably

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Speaker 1: asked the employees to download their vaccine cards, which is

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Speaker 1: what a number of businesses are already doing as opposed

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Speaker 1: to an honor system, certainly as a but in addition

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Speaker 1: to that, to offer vaccines on site, to make it

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Speaker 1: very convenient for people to get their vaccines. I wonder

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Speaker 1: if you think, based on everything I've heard you say

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Speaker 1: the secretary, if you think these new mandates are overdue.

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Speaker 1: The President again was preparing to declare victory at the

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Speaker 1: beginning of the summer, then Delta took hold. Is this

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Speaker 1: too little, too late? Or is he keeping up with

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Speaker 1: the curve here? You know, timing is everything. They tried

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Speaker 1: every voluntary effort, and everybody did that they possibly could, UM,

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Speaker 1: including UM incentivizing businesses around the country, and a number

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Speaker 1: of businesses stepped up. But it's not the Delta vice virus.

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Speaker 1: It's the one after that, and this mutation could be

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Speaker 1: very serious after this one is Tony Fauci has indicated,

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Speaker 1: so we've got to get closure now. We just have

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Speaker 1: run out of time. And that's why I think that

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Speaker 1: what the President has done is hit all the buttons

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Speaker 1: and said we have a comprehensive overwhelming strategy, and I'm

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Speaker 1: going to use my leadership to get it done to

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Speaker 1: protect all of us. Based on the time you've spent

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Speaker 1: in the White House and in Washington, you know as

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Speaker 1: well as anyone's secretary, that the President hears things the

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Speaker 1: rest of us don't, at least sometimes ever or sometimes

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Speaker 1: months before. Do you think he is being warned by

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Speaker 1: Dr Faucci and others of of new variants like you

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Speaker 1: mentioned that could be worse than delta. I think it's

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Speaker 1: a combination of things. Um uh. Tony Faucci is starting

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Speaker 1: and the scientists are starting to talk about what will

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Speaker 1: happen if we don't get our arms around this. But

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Speaker 1: you know, the President has such empathy. I think he's

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Speaker 1: listening to people that are concerned about their community, not

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Speaker 1: stepping up and asking for presidential leadership. I think he's

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Speaker 1: really concerned about the little kids in this country. The

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Speaker 1: fact that a quarter of a hall of people in

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Speaker 1: our hospitals are children is just scary because that's our future.

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Speaker 1: If the president is responsible for anything, it's about protecting

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Speaker 1: the future, and that means protecting the kids. Former Secretary

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Speaker 1: of Health and Human Services, former congresswoman from Florida, Donna Shelela.

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Speaker 1: We thank you for being with us on Bloomberg Sound On.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg You sund On with Joe Matthew

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Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. President Biden lays down new orders to

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Speaker 1: fight COVID. If you haven't gotten the vaccine yet, you

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Speaker 1: may be about to go. So tonight, I'm announcing that

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Speaker 1: the Department of Labor developing an emergency rule to require

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Speaker 1: all employers with one D and more employees at together

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Speaker 1: employee over eighty million workers to ensure their workforces are

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Speaker 1: fully vaccinated or show a negative test at least once

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Speaker 1: a week, suggesting that Labor Secretary Marty Walsh is about

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Speaker 1: to get involved in this, and I'm sure we'll be

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Speaker 1: speaking publicly about it for our are somewhat new listeners

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Speaker 1: in Boston, I mean Mayor Walsh. So President Biden addresses

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Speaker 1: the nation from the State Dining Room, and we're joined

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Speaker 1: now by the panel Bloomberg Politics contributor, Democratic analyst Genie

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Speaker 1: Schanzano and Republican strategist Ash Wright, senior vice president of

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Speaker 1: Gate twenty three Strategies. Thanks to you both for for

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Speaker 1: being here. I want to hear from both of you

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Speaker 1: on this. It was a very deliberately seemed rehearsed speech

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Speaker 1: in its delivery, the President looking directly into the camera

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Speaker 1: as he got it. I won't say emotional, but passionate

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Speaker 1: at times, Genie in making these announcements here, if we've

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Speaker 1: already got a nation that's split between vaccinated and unvaccinated,

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Speaker 1: is this going to help? It won't help with that,

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Speaker 1: but but it should help, because this is really a

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Speaker 1: very strong and very sweeping announcement by the White House

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Speaker 1: at you know, the six prong plan. You heard a

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Speaker 1: clearly frustrated president and he used the word frustrated talk

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Speaker 1: about the fact that this is a you know, this

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Speaker 1: is a pandemic of the unvaccinated, these eighty million Americans

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Speaker 1: who can get vaccinated but has chosen not to, and

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Speaker 1: so he is going to use the full power of

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Speaker 1: the executive branch to move us in the direction of

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Speaker 1: you know about they say this might impact about a

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Speaker 1: hundred million, and you know, the numbers that he talked

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Speaker 1: about are important to underscore daily news case new case

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Speaker 1: rates of a hundred and fifty thousand, and you have

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Speaker 1: Dr Faucci another saying we to be well below ten thousands.

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Speaker 1: So we've got a really long way to go on that,

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Speaker 1: and the President is going to try to push us there.

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Speaker 1: I think he's going to face some pushback. We've already

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Speaker 1: heard some of that from the unions. But he's going

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Speaker 1: to to push us there as much as he can

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Speaker 1: within the the within the law on the constitution. That's right.

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Speaker 1: We just talked to Donna Shalelah who suggested we could

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Speaker 1: be in for a major debate over federalism. What happens

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Speaker 1: when the executive branch of the federal government starts mandating

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Speaker 1: the way employers, granted large employers in this case, operate themselves, right,

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Speaker 1: it's not going to be pretty Frankly, I would assume

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Speaker 1: that a lot of states will be filing lawsuits as

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Speaker 1: earliest tonight tomorrow morning, because part of part of the

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Speaker 1: issue here is that states tend to regulate the hiring

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Speaker 1: to who can be in the workforce and who can't,

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Speaker 1: even if they are larger companies, a lot of that,

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Speaker 1: you know, do those employers get unemployment benefits and unemployment

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Speaker 1: benefits are paid for by the state, you know, and

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Speaker 1: that makes factors on the small business co owner go up.

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Speaker 1: And so there's gonna be a lot of kind of

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Speaker 1: red take to comb through a lot of this what

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Speaker 1: I personally, you know, as a conservative, would have hoped

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Speaker 1: from the President, I you know, just to be frank,

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Speaker 1: I thought when you used the line and said this

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Speaker 1: isn't about freedom and personal choice, I thought he lost

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Speaker 1: the unvaccinated in the speech, and and I wish it

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Speaker 1: he had come out with more of a passionate kind

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Speaker 1: of let's do this versus just kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: putting my thumb on on rule over you. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's how people are gonna take it. And that

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Speaker 1: would also, you know, kind of question the ability of

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Speaker 1: and I'm sorry it takes so long, but but aiming

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Speaker 1: it at companies that are a hundred employers are over

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Speaker 1: because we know that it's typically the more poverty based

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Speaker 1: section of our society that's still unvaccinated. But those are

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Speaker 1: not the people that are making you know, thirty five

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Speaker 1: plus thirty five thousand plus or more at companies of

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Speaker 1: a hundred or more. And so although it will affect

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Speaker 1: a hundred million Americans. I would I would think a

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Speaker 1: mass a massive majority of those hundred million are already vaccinated,

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Speaker 1: and I would wanting to see do more to um,

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Speaker 1: you know, to help those that living in poverty with

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Speaker 1: like mobile vaccination, you know, trucks going through neighborhoods, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: I wish you had taken that route. But you know,

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Speaker 1: but I you know, I think we're in for a

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Speaker 1: long fight, Ashally, I think you isolated one of the

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Speaker 1: most important parts of the speech. Here's how the President

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Speaker 1: said it. This is not about freedom for personal choice.

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Speaker 1: It's about protecting yourself and those around you, the people

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Speaker 1: you work with, the people you care about, the people

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Speaker 1: you love. Now, I want you both to just give

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Speaker 1: me a second on this because I read in Politico

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Speaker 1: story this morning about the Reverend Henning Jacobson, who was

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Speaker 1: a minister lived in Cambridge, Massachusetts in the early nine hundreds,

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Speaker 1: refused a local mandate to take the smallpox vaccine. Cambridge

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Speaker 1: had a mandate back then. The case, Hending versus Massachusetts

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Speaker 1: went all the way to the Supreme Court, same personal

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Speaker 1: liberties argument that many conservatives are using right now, and

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Speaker 1: you know what he lost. The court ruled that Henning

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Speaker 1: was in fact violating the liberties of his neighbors by

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Speaker 1: spreading the disease. So not only has the argument not

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Speaker 1: changed and over a hundred years, Genie, but if this

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Speaker 1: goes to the High Court, this is the case that

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Speaker 1: would in fact be the legal precedent. Nothing has changed

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Speaker 1: in a century. No, it's it's a great precedent to

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Speaker 1: talk about, because nothing has changed. And of course, you

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Speaker 1: know the states, the government have police powers. They oftentimes

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Speaker 1: make decisions that are in the interest of the health, safety,

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Speaker 1: well being and quite frankly, morals of their community. And

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Speaker 1: in these kinds of cases they may very well go

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Speaker 1: to court. But when it comes to this issue, and

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Speaker 1: I think this is where OSHA and the Labor Department

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Speaker 1: are going to be on strong ground. There is a

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Speaker 1: strong backing for them to say this is in the

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Speaker 1: interest the safety and health of the public, so we

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Speaker 1: have a right to demand this. I do agree with

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Speaker 1: Ash though, that the language is important and and that

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Speaker 1: is something I think the President has to be very

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Speaker 1: careful about. I would have liked he did this towards

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Speaker 1: the end. I would have liked more focus on the

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Speaker 1: economic aspect of this as well. He did that towards

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Speaker 1: the end. But the impact on our economy if businesses

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Speaker 1: still can't come back, who thought they were going to

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Speaker 1: come back this fall? Those are big impacts. I think

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Speaker 1: he's got to focus there as well and implore people

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Speaker 1: that we our economy is going to continue to falter

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Speaker 1: if we don't get this under control. Ash, right do

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Speaker 1: we have if? If you're right? Lawsuits being filed tonight,

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Speaker 1: are those going to be from private employers or also

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Speaker 1: from states? As the president here opens a new front,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like against the Rhonda Santis and others, suggesting

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Speaker 1: he would use the power of the presidency, promising that

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Speaker 1: he would to get those governors, as he said, out

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Speaker 1: of the way, right. I think it will be primarily

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Speaker 1: the states. I'm sure there will be some employers that

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Speaker 1: do it, but I think primarily it's going to be

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Speaker 1: attorney to conerals that represent conservative states, and they're going

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Speaker 1: to use the argument and say that the Department of

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Speaker 1: Education doesn't have the right to come in and say

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Speaker 1: make up to pay for a teacher or require a

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Speaker 1: teacher to be paid. Also, you know, to to require

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Speaker 1: medical personnel to be vacinated, which I think is interesting.

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Speaker 1: It's hard for me to imagine there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: medical um you know, medical workforce is unvaccinated. But but

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot of those states, a lot of

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Speaker 1: those hospitals are also state funded, and so I think

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Speaker 1: they'll see on those grounds that this is an overreach

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Speaker 1: of federal um of federal um H laws. But I

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Speaker 1: will say the genius point. I think that what they

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Speaker 1: actually did right was used the Department of Labor. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of laws at the Department of

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Speaker 1: Labor traditionally in our history, is there to protect the

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Speaker 1: consumer and the workers. So for example, when you walk

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Speaker 1: into a bathroom and there's a sign up that says

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Speaker 1: all employees must wash their hands, you know, is the

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Speaker 1: vaccine really that different? Because that law is there to

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Speaker 1: ensure the safety of who's making your food or who's

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Speaker 1: touching your products. And so I think they have a

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Speaker 1: lot of standing will ultimately be successful. So those lawsuits

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Speaker 1: that will be filed by the states will not succeed,

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Speaker 1: Is that right, Ash, Well, I think they'll see they

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Speaker 1: won't succeed on behalf of the employers. And I'm just predicting.

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Speaker 1: I'm not, you know, but because it's kind of fresh,

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Speaker 1: but I would. I would assume that the Department of

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Speaker 1: Labor would have standing ground and would be successful. What

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Speaker 1: I don't think will be successful is the ability to

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Speaker 1: come in and have an impact on locally controlled education

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Speaker 1: in states like Texas or Florida, Oklahoma, etcetera. No matter

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Speaker 1: which you ay these lawsuits go, assuming they are file genies,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have Rhonda Santist, John Abbott and others raising

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Speaker 1: a lot of money on that speech. Now they are,

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Speaker 1: and this is what the president, you know, has been

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Speaker 1: trying to avoid. He's been trying to avoid politicizing this

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Speaker 1: anymore than it already is. But quite frankly, given the

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Speaker 1: way the numbers are, he really has no choice but

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Speaker 1: to come out with a heavy hand on this. And

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Speaker 1: one thing I thought was very interesting as you look

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Speaker 1: at some of the union statements that are just coming out,

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Speaker 1: they are saying, quite frankly, they agree the data is clear,

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Speaker 1: getting vaccinated is important. But what they want is they

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Speaker 1: wanted the opportunity to negotiate it. They don't want workers

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Speaker 1: being forced, They want workers to have a voice in

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Speaker 1: their working conditions. So that's something that the administer ration

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Speaker 1: is going to contend with in addition to what happens

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Speaker 1: at the state attorney general level and others. So it's

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Speaker 1: going to be fascinating to see how quickly these mandates

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Speaker 1: are challenged. I think it's going to be very quick

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Speaker 1: ash right. The President said it himself, We're in for

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Speaker 1: a tough stretch and it could last a while. That

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Speaker 1: sounds to me like we're going to be having this

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Speaker 1: debate for the rest of this year, at least as

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Speaker 1: we get into the cold season, and it's going to

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Speaker 1: be the backdrop for all of the other debates in Washington. Reconciliation, debt, ceiling,

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Speaker 1: funding the government. How do you do it all at once? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know that they can. Frankly, Um, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I think that you're right this. We're in for this

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Speaker 1: for the rest of the year. I think it's going

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Speaker 1: to take months for these, um you know, these new

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Speaker 1: mandates to actually be confirmed at the spring court level. Um.

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Speaker 1: As we know, you can delay in delay and delay

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Speaker 1: in court. But you know, I think ultimately what's going

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Speaker 1: to happen is that, you know, the Senate and the

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Speaker 1: Congress will pet push through the budget at three point

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Speaker 1: five five trillion dollar budget that Schumer is pushing. I

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Speaker 1: think that will go through relatively quick. I think the

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Speaker 1: COVID will just kind of be a distraction on the

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Speaker 1: back end. But the debate, the debate in DC, this

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Speaker 1: COVID debate is going to cover up a lot of

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Speaker 1: the other policy like the transportation bill, et cetera, that

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Speaker 1: they're pushing in d C. We're just about out of

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Speaker 1: time here, Genie, does reconciliation still pass with this yes

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Speaker 1: or no? Yes? Yes at one point five to well,

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Speaker 1: not with three point five. That's a real answer. I

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Speaker 1: love that Genie Shane's a no Republican strategist. Ash right.

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Speaker 1: I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg