WEBVTT - #014 Jason Flom with Jon-Adrian Velazquez 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:09.040 With the police banging on the door, open up. 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:12.440 The choice to be in that lineup was the last 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:15.520 choice I made as a free man. A year later, 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:17.320 I ended up writing the system. 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:20.320 I'm going to be one of those people who everyone 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:21.960 in the world is going to think as a monster 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:24.080 or suspect as a monster for the rest of my life, 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:25.440 and I'm just going to have to come to peace 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:25.680 with that. 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:29.639 Somebody was able to look at my picture in the 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:33.200 database and say that I was somewhere where I definitely wasn't. 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:37.559 I overheard three of the jailers discussing what part they 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:39.800 might have to play in my hanging. They had been 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:43.040 told that two prison officers would have to participate in 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:43.760 my execution. 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:48.320 Now I walked back inside that prison for the last time. Man, 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:49.640 all help broke loose. 0:00:49.680 --> 0:01:00.360 But welcome to another edition of Wrongful Conviction. Today is 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.560 a very special day because this is the debut of 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:07.039 wrongful Conviction behind bars, and our guest today is my 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:11.200 dear friend, an innocent man stuck in a nightmare here 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:15.240 at Sing Sing Prison. John Adrian Velasquez, also known as JJ. 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:18.760 John Adrien Belasquez, convicted of killing a retired New York 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:21.920 City police officer during a botched robbery and Harlem, fifty 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:24.880 nine year old Albert Ward was killed. Velaskaz was found 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:26.600 guilty of second degree murder. 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:27.040 JJ. 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:29.720 Velaskaz was thrown in a lineup and fingered for murdered 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:31.720 by a drug dealer who the police threatened with the. 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:35.119 Rest with no physical evidence. Valaskaz was prosecuted for murder. 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:37.840 This sentence twenty five years to life. 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:39.639 Valaskaz remains in prison. 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:42.480 JJ, welcome to the show. 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:44.040 Thank you so much for having me. 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:46.520 You're hearing a lot of background noise today, and there's 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:48.640 a very simple reason for that, which is that we 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:52.120 are inside of Singsing Correctional Facility and it is a 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:54.920 noisy place and there's really no getting away from it. 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:58.320 I apologize for any distractions that you're going to experience 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:01.920 during today's show. We've highlighted the cases of over a 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:05.680 dozen people so far who've been exonerated, and my hope 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:10.200 is that in bringing more exposure and light to your situation, 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:13.160 that this will be another part of the process of 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:17.360 getting you out. Because JJ is just as innocent as 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:19.520 any of the people who've been on the show, but 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:22.480 as of yet, he has not been able to win 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:25.519 his freedom. So that's what we're here to talk about today. 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:28.360 But before we even get into that, I want to 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:31.360 go back. Let's go back to how you grew up, 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:33.480 where you grew up. You know, we like to always 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:34.720 give a little context. 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.639 Sure, I'm a native New Yorker, grew up in a 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:41.280 middle class family home. My mother was a healthcare worker 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:44.240 and eventually she went through training and became a union 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:47.640 organizer for eleven ninety nine. My father is a former 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:50.960 was a former US Army veteran who later became an 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:55.440 Amtrak police officer. By the age of ten, things changed 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:58.840 in my household. I started to realize a lot of 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:02.360 arguments and fight to what happening between my parents, and 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:05.120 it was because my father was actually living a double life. 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:07.800 He had two families. I found out for the first 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:11.200 time that I had a younger brother that was five 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:14.680 years younger than me, half brother from another mother. I 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:17.160 was kind of ecstatic to have a brother. At that time, 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:18.960 I was young and I was naive, and I didn't 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:22.799 really get to see what was about to happen. Because 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:26.520 everything changed. The dynamics of my household changed. My father 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:29.400 wasn't around as much anymore, and he made it his 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:34.160 business to remain present in my life. But it's impossible 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:37.840 to be two places at once. And eventually I started 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:40.760 to fill that void that I missed with my father 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:45.320 by spending more time in the Devil's playground. And for 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:47.600 those that are listening that may not understand what the 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:51.000 devil's playground is, the streets of New York are harsh, 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:53.040 and when you go out there and you start to 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:56.720 experience and be exposed to the streets, you start being 0:03:56.760 --> 0:04:02.080 overwhelmed by certain environmental factors. In my particular neighborhood, there 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:05.120 was a lot of negative peer influence and that kind 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:09.760 of changed the dynamics of my thinking. It changed the 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:13.080 trajectory of my interests, where at one point all I 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:17.760 cared about was school, sports, and home. And then a 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:23.880 time came where I lost interest in home in school, 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:27.120 but I still had that interest in sports. I had 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:31.239 this dream because I was good. Baseball was really where 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:33.760 I was at a lot of people believed in my talent. 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:35.680 I had gotten hit by a bus at the corner 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:37.919 of my school when I was sixteen days after my 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:41.480 sixteenth birthday, and when the doctors told me that I 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:44.039 would never be able to compete at the same level 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:47.039 that I was used to. That changed my life. That 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.640 was a crossroad at that point when school went out 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.520 the window, or when sports went out the window, rather, 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:56.080 school went out the window with it, and I started 0:04:56.080 --> 0:05:01.400 cutting class, and before you knew it, I became so rebellious. 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:03.600 There were so many arguments in my household with my 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:06.039 mom's and I would try to play my father against 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:08.359 my mother and my mother against my father. And eventually 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:09.800 I just got tired of it all and I ran 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:12.760 away from home and in search of my independence. In 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:17.040 pursuit of my independence, I found myself homeless. I've had 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.400 many nights where I went to sleep hungry, and I 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:22.200 know what it is to live off of a dollar 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.640 a salami and a dollar cheese and a stolen loaf 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:29.359 of bread. And that's basically where everything started for me 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:34.960 as a whole different aspect of living in New York. 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:37.560 Because I was on my own and I didn't have 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.599 working papers, I didn't have an ID, I was a 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.240 high school drop out. I'm running from my mother and 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:45.240 my father, so I can't I got to stay away 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:47.039 from police. I got to stay away from anybody who 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.080 can officially report me to my family, and it was 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:52.880 a matter of pride, like I left and I didn't 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:54.800 want to go back. And then there was also a 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:57.120 matter of fear where it was like I'm going to 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:00.280 be judged when it gets scolded, you know, So there 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.840 was shame, There was a lot of different factors playing 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.360 in and it just made me go deeper and deeper, 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:08.920 and it was like, I've realized now that that was 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:11.880 the worst choice in my life, because all I did 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:16.120 from that point forward was continued to make worse choices 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:17.599 that dig the deeper grave. 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:24.400 You somehow or other, managed to survive very difficult circumstances, 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:27.080 a lot of disappointments, a lot of things that no 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:30.359 child should have to go through and end up on 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:31.080 the streets. 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.159 But you turned it around. 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:35.600 To the extent that you met a great woman, right 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:39.479 and you had a couple of kids. Yeah, So how 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:42.440 did you go from a sixteen seventeen year old kid 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:45.200 on the streets to being a twenty two year old 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:48.279 man with a couple of kids and a wife and 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:50.320 more of a stable situation. 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.800 So basically what happened is being in the street, I 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:58.480 met Vanessa. I met her at sixteen turning seventeen, Eventually 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:00.320 I started living with her and her family. He took 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:03.080 me in and I was still trying to survive and 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.000 I was moving too fast for my own good. Before 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.760 you knew it, I was a father, and that made 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:12.280 me start to take life a lot more seriously. And 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:14.920 I'm trying to figure out my way and say, all right, listen, 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:16.480 I need to do something, and I need to do 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:19.280 something to ensure that my family's going to be all right. 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:22.240 Tried to look for jobs, but again my high school 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:25.560 drop out. At that point, I didn't know what skills 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:28.000 I may have had that were employable. I was a 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:30.480 child trying to find my way. Before you knew it, 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.360 I was a father with another child on the way, 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:36.520 and it was rough. I was basically living off of 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:40.280 Vanessa because she was getting welfare and it's all social service, 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.760 you know SSI. I mean, the rent was under one 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:46.520 hundred dollars, so it was affordable, you know. But at 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:49.240 the same token, they don't know I'm living there. And 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:52.680 it's crazy because yeah, I got arrested a few times, 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:57.320 no charges ever, you know, stuck. I've gotten arrested for loitering, 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:00.160 I've gotten arrested for all kinds of little nonsense that 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:02.320 happens in the neighborhood. They gave me a trespassing for 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:04.200 going to see a friend in the projects, because I 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:07.400 don't live in the projects. What people need to realize 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:09.680 in New York and all over the world is that 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:12.600 all it takes for you to be in my shoes 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:15.280 is to get arrested, for them to take a picture, 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:17.520 for them to take your name and put it in 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:21.080 a system, for them to take your fingerprints. That's what 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:24.760 starts everything. That's what started for me. Somebody was able 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:27.480 to look at my picture in a database and say 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:29.840 that I was somewhere where I definitely wasn't. 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:32.480 And I want to talk about that for a second, JJ, 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:36.000 because I'm very well aware of the fact that in 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:39.839 the poorest neighborhoods like the one that you were residing in, 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:42.680 they do these sweeps and they'll pick people up for 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.360 riding a bike on the sidewalk or like you said, 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:48.720 visiting a friend. I mean, I'm not sure how that's 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:51.800 a crime. You know, trespassing, you could call trespassing anything. 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.280 I mean, might as well arrest somebody for breathing. It's 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:57.880 you know, it's almost a fada compleet. That a young 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:00.880 person like yourself, especially a person of color, is going 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:04.439 to end up in the system in some form or 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:06.719 another for doing the same type of thing that other 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:08.520 people in other parts of the city or other parts 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:09.319 of the country. 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:10.080 Would not get arrested for. 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:12.720 As you said, that starts a chain of events that 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:17.319 can only have negative consequences and in your case, tragic consequences. 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:19.280 When I tell these stories to people, they go, but 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:22.800 that can be like, you can't convict somebody with no evidence, 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:25.840 but you can absolutely. So there you were, you have 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:29.040 your two kids, You're turning your life around, doing the 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:29.640 best you can. 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:32.080 At the time, Yeah, I was actually a student at 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:36.040 TCI Technical Careers in trying to learn about computer programming, 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:38.320 trying to get a skill that would be employable. 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:40.720 And to your credit, it's interesting because I think for 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:45.160 some people, the responsibility of fatherhood, of having become a 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:47.559 father at such a young age, causes them to run. 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:49.520 But in your case, you took it seriously, and you 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:51.080 took it as it actually has an opportunity to turn 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:51.720 your life around. 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:54.560 Absolutely, So one day everything changed. 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:57.600 It's almost like a blink of an eye. I receive 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:00.520 a phone call. It was a Saturday morning, and it's 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:02.920 from my brother's mother, Carmen, who I also have a 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:07.280 very close relationship with. And basically my license, my driver's 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:10.240 license was addressed to my father's address and that's where 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:13.280 Carmen and my brother Jason lived. So they went to 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:17.199 that apartment at like four in the morning Friday night 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:20.600 going into Saturday morning, and they were looking for me. 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:24.520 You have police officers looking for me, and they tried 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:28.040 to even grab up my little brother. Now, at the time, 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:30.560 I was twenty one years old, so my little brother 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:32.880 being five years younger than me, it's sixteen years old. 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.920 The description was given of two male blacks from twenty 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:38.920 five to thirty years old. Why are you trying to 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:41.880 grab up this child? Clearly he looks like a child. 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:44.920 Clearly he doesn't look like me either, and neither one 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:48.880 of us appear to be two black men, right, But 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:52.120 they're trying to grab him thinking that he's me for 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:54.840 whatever odd reason. And then you know, Carmen just makes 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:56.800 a big stink and says, do you understand that this 0:10:56.840 --> 0:11:00.760 is the house of an officer who died within the 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.320 last ten months. Do you understand what you're doing? You're 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:06.800 violating the children of somebody who served this country, just 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:10.040 like you. And that's when they were like, they eased 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:12.480 up a little bit. They didn't have a warrant for arrest, 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:14.840 so they gave her a card and said, listen, you 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:17.120 get in touch with mister Velaskis. Please have him get 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:19.400 in touch with us. We're trying to help him. I 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:21.560 was living in the Bronx with Vanessa and I get 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.160 this call from Carmen and it's a startling call because 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:26.200 she's like, listen, you know, the cops are looking for you. 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:28.960 They're saying something about you shot a police officer and 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:31.079 that you need to call them. They're making it seem 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:35.600 very serious. They came in here deep and I'm like, listen, Carmen, 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:37.720 what's going on? What are you talking about? I have 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:41.600 no idea what you're talking about. Slow down, and she's like, yo, listen, 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:44.439 all I know, here's a number they want you to call. 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:46.960 I'm like, what precinct did they come from? You know, 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:50.400 where's this coming from? Listen, here's the name. His name 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:53.040 is Joseph latrent That here's his phone number. They told 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:54.520 me the precinct at the time, it was a twenty 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:57.640 eighth precinct I don't think I even registered that was. 0:11:57.640 --> 0:11:58.560 This four in the morning. 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.880 She called me about nine in the morning. She waited 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.320 until a decent time I guess to call me. At 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:06.880 that point, I started to kind of like panic, and 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.920 I was frantic. And I have two children. One is 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:13.560 a child that's only a few weeks old. I have 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.840 Vanessa there. And Vanessa realized from the phone call that 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:20.400 something serious is going on. But she's like, what's going on? 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:22.439 And I'm like, yo, just wait a minute. I gotta 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:25.840 process this, like I really don't even know what's going on, Like, 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:27.679 let me call my mother. So I called my mother 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:30.080 and I'm like, yo, ma, you know they're saying the 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:32.319 police are looking for me. She started getting hysterical on 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:34.680 the phone what happened, And I'm like, listen, I don't 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.200 know what happened. I don't know what happened. This is 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:38.960 what I know. I know the police are looking for me. 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:41.040 I know it's the weekend. I know it's not a 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.080 good time to get into contact with the police because 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:48.120 I can't see a judge or anybody else until maybe 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:49.960 one day. If they come for me. They're saying this 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:52.000 is serious. They're saying I shot a cop. I have 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:54.720 no idea what this is about, but I'm scared and 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:57.000 I need your help. What are we gonna do? So 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.480 she's like, stay there, I'm coming. My mother lives upstate 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.439 at the time, and she came and picked me up 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:04.079 and she took me to the church that we used 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.360 to attend together regularly on the weekend. It's called Love 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:09.320 Gospel Assembly. We went to the church and there were 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:12.400 a few people there and we started to tell what 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:14.680 was going on, but everything was so limited, like we 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:17.000 didn't have any real knowledge. And they're saying, listen, the 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:19.400 first thing you gotta do is get an attorney and 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:24.160 contact the precinct. So we try to figure out, you know, 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:26.599 who would be a good lawyer. So I try to 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:28.280 speak to a couple of my friends that I know 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:30.000 have been involved in the system. Do you know any 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:32.520 good lawyers? They tell me a name. His name is 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:35.079 Franklin Gould May rest in peace. At this point, I've 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:38.440 learned that he has passed away recently. So I'm trying 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:40.720 to get in touch with Franklin Gould. Bad part about 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:42.720 this again, it's the weekend. How do you get in 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:45.920 touch with a lawyer over the weekend? Right, and we 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:48.360 were waiting for Frank Gould to get back to us, 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:52.240 and in that time, the range of emotions that we 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:54.960 went through as a family picture us being in a 0:13:55.000 --> 0:14:01.560 car driving around aimlessly. It's my mother, me, Vanessa, JJ, 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:04.400 which is my son, right, I don't want to confuse 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:09.360 nobody and Jacob, and JJ is three years old at 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:12.200 the time. Jacob is a few weeks He was born 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:17.320 December twentieth, and this is January maybe thirtieth, so he's 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.160 a little bit more than a month. And we're driving 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:23.000 around aimlessly and aimlessly, and every time I see a 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:25.920 police car, it's like I get this little chill and 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:28.960 I don't know what's going to happen here. Eventually we 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:31.800 get in touch with this lawyer. We were outside of 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:34.600 a restaurant and I remember I spoke to him briefly. 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:37.240 I didn't have any information for him. I didn't know 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:39.120 what to tell him. He's asking me for information, like 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:41.880 I'm supposed to know certain things. I don't know nothing. 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:47.280 All you know is that the cops are looking for well, no. 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:49.160 I didn't even know there was a murder at the time. 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:51.560 At that point. All I was told was that a 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.080 cop was shot but I just want to address this 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:56.560 and get it over with because the longer I'm out here, 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:58.720 the more my life is in jeopardy. 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:00.440 And he wants you to give him deep tell what 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:01.720 you would have to have them. 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:03.600 I'm trying to tell him, I'm hiring you so you 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.600 can get the details, right, That's just why I'm calling you. 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:10.800 So he said that he had contacted the precinct, but 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:13.120 that they weren't giving any information. They just wanted me 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.240 to turn myself in. But I left them on the 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:20.720 phone my mother, and when my mother came back, I 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:23.560 was so upset. I was scared, but I was so 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.120 upset that I decided there's no way I want to 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:29.240 deal with this guy. Because this lawyer told my mother 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:31.280 that if we were to get pulled over by police, 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.400 that I should put my head down in the ground 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:36.320 and that my mother should throw her body over me 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:39.560 to make sure that nothing happens to me because I 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:42.560 could get shot. And I didn't like that. You know, 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:44.760 if anything, he should have said that to me while 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:46.160 I was on the phone. You don't see that to 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:48.520 my mother had a frantic You know. 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:50.880 That's a strange thing for a lawyer to say. I mean, 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:53.920 I understand he was in a certain way trying to 0:15:54.400 --> 0:16:00.600 prevent looking that's a little bit hysterical. Yeah, yeah, and 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:02.800 you're absolutely right. I mean he should have addressed that 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:06.000 directly with you, right, So you ended up not engage you. 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:08.400 I didn't engage with him. We ended up dealing with 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:10.920 an attorney. I believe his name is Goldstein. I don't 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.840 know his first name. And he told us to go 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:16.520 to a hotel and we got a hotel. We called 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.720 him from the hotel, gave me the address, and everything 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:22.600 is crazy. At this point, Vanessa and my mother go 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:24.720 get the hotel room. I'm sneaking in through the back. 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:27.520 I'm afraid, and I'm staying in the hotel room. I'm 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:29.840 waiting for this guy. So this the lawyer comes. He 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:31.800 comes to the hotel and he meets me, and he's like, 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:33.920 all right, how you doing? This is what's going to happen. 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:36.480 I contacted the precinct. I told him that I'm arranging 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:40.160 to turn you in on Monday, right because it was Saturday. Still, 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:41.960 so he says, I'm going to turn you in on Monday. 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:43.960 Until then, I want you to stay in this hotel room. 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:45.640 I do not want you to leave this hotel room. 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:47.440 I want you to shave your face. I want you 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:49.720 to be clean shaving. We're going to walk into that 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.040 precinct early in the morning on Monday, and we're going 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.800 to deal with this situation. I want a thousand dollars 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:56.960 right now. I want one thousand dollars the day that 0:16:57.000 --> 0:16:59.800 you turn yourself in on Monday, and then you'll be 0:16:59.880 --> 0:17:03.240 like and Friday you'll be going to an arraignment, and 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:05.520 at that point, I want five thousand dollars. And I'm like, 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.679 what are you not getting I didn't do anything. What 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:10.520 are you talking about that? I got to give you money? 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:13.400 Now give you money again, then give you money on Friday. 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:15.240 And you're saying them, spend five days in jail. What 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:18.040 are you representing me for? And he's like, listen, I'm 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:19.960 just telling you. These are some serious charge. This was 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:21.359 going to happen. You want me to be real with 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:23.960 you or not? So I give him the money. I 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:27.280 gave him the first thousand dollars, and I'm just frantic. 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:29.000 I don't know what's going to happen. This guy's telling 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:31.520 me now that I'm going to jail like it doesn't 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:34.639 matter what I did or didn't do I'm going to jail. 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:36.560 And let's go back for a second. I mean we're 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:39.240 talking twenty years ago. That was a lot of money. 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:41.440 I mean there's a lot of money. Now, yeah, there's 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:42.200 a lot of money. 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:45.720 Absolutely. He actually said that the case was going to 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.880 cost fifty thousand dollars before everything was said and done, 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.160 because I would be going to trial on this case. 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:54.960 So he basically convicted me before we even got to 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:59.560 the precinct. So this is the mindset that I'm dealing with. Already, 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:03.040 two lowers have rubbed me the wrong way, and at 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.320 that time, I'm not measuring if maybe it's because of 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:09.840 the emotions that I have something inside of me, maybe 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.560 it's not them. I'm not thinking like that. I was 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:16.119 twenty one years old, and eventually, you know, I just 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:19.000 sitting there and I keep staring at my children. I'm 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:20.880 staring at for us, and I'm staring at my mother, 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.439 and I'm saying, this might be the last time I 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:25.360 get to see my children, This might be the last 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.840 time I get to see my mother. How did this happen? 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:33.200 It's literally everybody's worst nightmare. Everybody's out to get you. 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.720 You didn't do anything and it's the most terrible thing 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.399 that you could be accused of. The murder or the 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:42.440 shooting of a police officer is right at the top 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:44.880 of them to the list of things that you don't 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:46.159 want to be wrongly accused. 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:48.960 And bear in mind you're talking to the son of 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:53.280 a police officer. I was raising a police officer's household, right, 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:55.159 I mean, what sense would it make for me to 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:58.480 go out on a rampage and shoot a police officer. 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.120 That's crazy, And you had no history of violence, and 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:05.520 none of it adds up. The nightmare is growing as 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.639 you are encountering these people who are supposed to be 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:12.320 on your side, people who are supposed to be helping you. Right, 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:14.840 your only chance is to get a lawyer that's gonna 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:17.159 represent you. Monday comes. 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:20.520