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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 3: My name is Matt, my name.

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Speaker 4: Is no they call me Ben. We're joined as always

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Speaker 4: with our super producer Dylan to Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly,

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Speaker 4: you are here. That makes this the stuff they don't

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Speaker 4: want you to know. Tonight we are exploring the wide

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Speaker 4: world of sports and maybe some other things, though perhaps

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Speaker 4: not in the way you might initially assume, fellow conspiracy realists.

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Speaker 4: First things first, gentlemen, would you guys consider yourself golfers

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Speaker 4: or I know we've all played golf at some point, well, I.

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Speaker 3: Mean, if you're counting many golf then yes, if we've

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Speaker 3: done it together in fact, but I've never played golf

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Speaker 3: on a proper course, never even been to a top

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Speaker 3: golf y'all talking about doing that sometime together too.

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Speaker 4: I played golf for the first like actual I guess

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Speaker 4: grown folk golf for the first time in my life,

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Speaker 4: very long life, just a few months ago, and it

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Speaker 4: was entirely due to peer pressure, and I got to

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Speaker 4: tell you, golf fans in the crowd, I get it.

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Speaker 4: I see how. It's a lot of fun plus can

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Speaker 4: definitely be a time and money vampire. But unfortunately, folks,

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Speaker 4: we could assure you being a crackerjack, talent at putt

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Speaker 4: putt and fun mini golf is not the same thing.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't translate to other golf. Now.

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Speaker 3: He used to work at the club, right, Did you

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Speaker 3: ever get out there on the links in between shifts?

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Speaker 2: I don't want to go too much into it, but

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Speaker 2: it was a health club and they didn't own a

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Speaker 2: golf course until well into my tenure there. Once they did,

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Speaker 2: I was kind of out of the picture. I have

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Speaker 2: played with my father, my grandfather, my friends several times,

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Speaker 2: not enough, but my grandfather told me I have a

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Speaker 2: natural swing, but your handicap.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what that means. You want a good one? Hi, Well,

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Speaker 3: I don't know. Do you tell me?

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Speaker 2: It's terribly fun once you are out there, and it

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Speaker 2: is a nice relaxing I would say sport. If you're

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Speaker 2: going to join a sport that is one of the

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Speaker 2: most relaxing while also having some of the most intense

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Speaker 2: micro moments in any sport. So I don't know it's thrilling,

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Speaker 2: I would say so.

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Speaker 4: We'll have to check with our producer, Dylan, But for

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Speaker 4: now it's fair to say the three of us here

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Speaker 4: are people who have golfed, but perhaps don't consider ourselves golfers,

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Speaker 4: especially not professional golfers. If you were, like more than

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Speaker 4: one hundred and twenty million Americans, more than a third

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Speaker 4: of the population, you, like us, have played golf, either

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Speaker 4: on a course or off a course, or you f

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Speaker 4: followed it on television or oddline, read about the game.

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Speaker 4: You may have even listened to a golf related podcast.

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Speaker 4: Some folks love it, some folks hate it. But there's

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Speaker 4: no denying golf is a big business, and you know

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Speaker 4: what happens with big businesses, folks, Golf has become embroiled

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Speaker 4: in what may well be a global conspiracy. Here are

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Speaker 4: the facts, all right. I feel like we're increasingly colliding

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Speaker 4: the world's of ridiculous history and stuff they don't want

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Speaker 4: you to know. But the history of golf is fascinating,

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Speaker 4: and in my opinion, if you go to the ancient

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Speaker 4: parts of it, it's incredibly endearing.

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Speaker 3: It really is. It's also one of those parallel thinking

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Speaker 3: type things where it's like people have been hitting rollly

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Speaker 3: things with sticks since time immemorial, and it's just a

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Speaker 3: matter of organizing it in different ways. And why not

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Speaker 3: just hit it a long distance and shoot for a

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Speaker 3: tiny hole that seems like a fun diversion. And this

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Speaker 3: was first kind of envision back in Scotland in the

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Speaker 3: fifteenth century, possibly building on again some older games found

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Speaker 3: in China, one in particularly called chiu Wan, and other

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Speaker 3: similar predecessors in France, Persia and England. This is yeah again,

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Speaker 3: you find something that's laying around and implement of some

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Speaker 3: sort falling tree branch and then something rolling, figure out

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Speaker 3: where to hit it where it should go, and your

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Speaker 3: brain just kind of fills in the gaps and a

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Speaker 3: game is born.

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Speaker 4: That's yeah, That's what I like about that, the idea

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Speaker 4: that there's something classic human about finding a cool stick.

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Speaker 4: I don't know about you all, but I am unapologetically

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Speaker 4: a fan of finding cool sticks and walking around with them,

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Speaker 4: especially during a hike.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: I sometimes I don't know, when you pick them up,

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Speaker 4: when you feel like you're gandolf with a nice cool stick.

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Speaker 4: You might find at some point multiple times in history,

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Speaker 4: some and found a cool stick, and they found something

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Speaker 4: like a ball. Probably started off with the rock, if

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Speaker 4: we're being honest, and then later they made up rules

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Speaker 4: about the quote unquote right way to hit it, and

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Speaker 4: as you said, how to hit it, we also want

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Speaker 4: to shout out the ancient sport of Roman Paganica. Pardon

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Speaker 4: my mispronunciation there, but.

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Speaker 2: That one had a leather ball that was right stuffed

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Speaker 2: with wool, yes, and you just knock it around with

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Speaker 2: a bent stick.

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Speaker 4: And we're unclear on exactly the nature of the bent stick.

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Speaker 4: It's it's very odd and check out if you want

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Speaker 4: to learn more about ancient sports, check out our upcoming

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Speaker 4: episode on Weird Sports for ridiculous history. But as you

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Speaker 4: were saying, Noel, the predecessor of the modern version of

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Speaker 4: golf comes to us in Scotland in the fourteen hundreds,

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Speaker 4: in the fifteenth century, and ever since then, golf's popularity

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Speaker 4: has only grown. Golf in North America is older than

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Speaker 4: the United States. In North America.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting too, because golf is one of these

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Speaker 3: sports too that kind of combines sport with architecture and landscaping.

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Speaker 3: And it's like, sure, you'll have like famous baseball stadiums,

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Speaker 3: but it's all the same baseball diamond. You know, golf

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Speaker 3: course is something to be designed and fussed over, and

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Speaker 3: it's sort of like a demonstration of opulence too, because

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Speaker 3: you know, you can literally terraform the earth and create

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Speaker 3: this labyrinthine golf course.

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Speaker 2: Well yeah, and it's a way to draw in highly

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Speaker 2: influential people to your neck of the woods, right to

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Speaker 2: hang out, play a little game, maybe have some drinks,

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Speaker 2: a couple of meals and meetings with people who, again

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Speaker 2: are generally highly influential. And I think it's been used

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Speaker 2: that way for centuries.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, which, well, we'll definitely have to get to there,

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Speaker 4: because you can also say that about many professional sports.

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Speaker 4: There's a reason people fight to have a sports organization

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Speaker 4: in their neck of the global woods, in their I mean,

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Speaker 4: if you look at the US, people have been playing

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Speaker 4: some version of golf in North America since the early

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Speaker 4: sixteen hundreds, likely introduced by the Dutch and the Scottish.

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Speaker 4: As we know the Dutch settlers went on to become

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Speaker 4: patricians of the United States. To that point earlier made

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Speaker 4: about influence, it was still centuries before the foundation of

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Speaker 4: the first US official golf club Saint Andrew's Golf founded

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Speaker 4: in Yonkers in eighteen eighty eight. And I don't know

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Speaker 4: about you, guys, I don't know too much about Yonkers

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Speaker 4: other than I like the name. There's something Soussian about it.

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Speaker 4: So this is now the one fact I know about Yonkers.

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Speaker 3: It's like a It's not a borough of New York exactly.

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Speaker 3: It's more of it's like a township or something. It's

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Speaker 3: its own thing, but it is near you know, New

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Speaker 3: York City for sure.

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Speaker 2: Just weirdly, guys, the Piedmont Driving Club that we mentioned

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Speaker 2: earlier was founded in eighteen eighty seven. Wow, And just

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Speaker 2: thinking about these are organizations of again influential people already

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Speaker 2: getting together and forming another little club thing that they get.

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Speaker 4: To do, which they've been doing for a long time.

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Speaker 4: You know, Europe's aristocrats met it exclusive salons and clubs.

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Speaker 4: I guess the difference there for Saint Andrews then, just

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Speaker 4: so we're clear, is that that was the first one

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Speaker 4: founded just for golf.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. It's interesting though, because you don't really think about

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Speaker 3: influential people getting together to play a game of touch

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Speaker 3: football and have influential meetings. Yeah, Like there's something about

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Speaker 3: golf where the individual anybody can play it, not anyone

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Speaker 3: can be good at it, but it's kind of this

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Speaker 3: equalizer in a way, and there's an exclusivity to it,

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Speaker 3: and you play in small groups.

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Speaker 4: It's not a sport, and think about the way the

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Speaker 4: sport works. You have a rotationary period and you don't

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Speaker 4: have a very tight clock often so this naturally generates conversation.

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Speaker 4: But bowling is not the same because in bowling people

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Speaker 4: rotate quickly, so you don't have as much time to speak.

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Speaker 4: But also it's not as physically demanding, and a lot

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Speaker 4: of times when people play golf, part of the game

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Speaker 4: involves hanging out before or after grabbing some snacks, nashin

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Speaker 4: and then talking about business deals. That's I would argue,

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Speaker 4: that's part of the reason golf is so popular. It's

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Speaker 4: a major economic draw. Just to finish that part. Most

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Speaker 4: people don't want to compete professionally necessarily. They say, you

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Speaker 4: play for about three years and you get a rough

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Speaker 4: idea your skill level or your potential. But it's incredibly

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Speaker 4: popular because it helps in business. It is not uncommon

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Speaker 4: to hear professionals from across industries say a good game

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Speaker 4: of golf or playing golf is a pivotal moment in

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Speaker 4: their careers or their negotiations or their promotions.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, well, that's exactly what you said, Ben. It's the

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Speaker 2: walk from one hole to the next hole, right from

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Speaker 2: the place where the previous hole finishes to where the

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Speaker 2: next win begins.

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Speaker 3: It's a pretty text for a walk and talk you know,

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Speaker 3: constantly for eighteen of them.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I cannot I think we cannot stress that enough,

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Speaker 2: like how impactful that has been through the years and

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Speaker 2: just the things that have occurred in history because of

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Speaker 2: a maybe a single game of golf or a series

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Speaker 2: of games of golf.

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Speaker 4: And also it's at the same time, it functions as

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Speaker 4: an extended version of you know, the lunch meeting or

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Speaker 4: the firm handshake, because a lot of people pride themselves

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Speaker 4: on getting a good read on folks, especially and you know,

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Speaker 4: in the world of private business. So they'll I've heard

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Speaker 4: things like, you know, show me a guy how how

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Speaker 4: a guy plays golf, and I'll tell you how he

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Speaker 4: works in the boardroom. Well, it's why one of my

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Speaker 4: favorite old Cadrey insults from business tycoons is that guy

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Speaker 4: cheats at golf because what they're really saying is they

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Speaker 4: think he's also a shark at business and not ethical.

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Speaker 3: Wait, so that's a compliment.

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Speaker 2: Sounds like a winner to me. Why are you kidding me?

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Speaker 3: But then there's also so many business terms that spring

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Speaker 3: from golf, like the idea of having a big swing,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean, like take like a big

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Speaker 3: grand efforts, or like some sort of like big forward

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Speaker 3: thinking risky move is like a big swing, you know.

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Speaker 4: And golf and business are inextricably linked in a way

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Speaker 4: that is somewhat unique. Right, every major sport has this

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Speaker 4: huge business link to it. We talked oh links haha.

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Speaker 4: We mentioned some startling stats about people playing golf in

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Speaker 4: the US, but to get our heads around tonight's episode,

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Speaker 4: I think we need to consider financial stats as well.

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Speaker 4: The economic impact of golf in twenty twenty two was

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Speaker 4: one hundred billion dollars, and that's an increase from the

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Speaker 4: last time they ran the numbers in twenty sixteen, when

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Speaker 4: it was only eighty four billion dollars. Because this is

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Speaker 4: another unique thing about golf, Unlike a lot of other sports,

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Speaker 4: it flourish during the pandemic. It's perfect if you have

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Speaker 4: to worry about social distancing.

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Speaker 3: And Ben, I mean, I'm assuming this number is referring

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Speaker 3: to the economics of golf courses, of the money golfing generates,

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Speaker 3: perhaps also on professional level.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's you nailed at NOL because it's

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Speaker 4: things like not just the fees people pay to go

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Speaker 4: to a course, but things like there were sometimes risdiculous

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Speaker 4: money you can you can spend on clubs, both you know,

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Speaker 4: golf clubs and golf club Hey, I got myself in

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Speaker 4: a pickle there, both golf clubs as the implement and

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Speaker 4: golf clubs as the location medium.

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Speaker 3: But it also just it occurred to me though that

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Speaker 3: this number, if you think about all the business deals

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Speaker 3: that golf generates, would be way higher in the trillions,

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Speaker 3: probably an immeasurable.

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Speaker 4: Number, right, Like the endorsements, no, no, but even just

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Speaker 4: the deals.

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Speaker 3: People are making whilst playing golf, you could ye as

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Speaker 3: another economic impact of golf. Right, it's on.

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Speaker 4: Think.

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Speaker 2: I think it's no accident that mar A Lago is

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Speaker 2: such an important function within Donald Trump's career and world, right,

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Speaker 2: because it is where you can have those conversations, and

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Speaker 2: he's an avid golfer, and it just occurs that.

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Speaker 4: Way, and business tycoons have on several occasions accused former

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Speaker 4: President Trump of cheating Nikola.

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Speaker 3: I have heard that golf, you pick up your you

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Speaker 3: drop your ball illegally, or you maybe not get some

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Speaker 3: strokes back basically, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I guess. I mean. Also, if you're playing golf with

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Speaker 4: your buddies, did I'm sure it's a very different game,

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Speaker 4: kind of the honor.

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Speaker 3: System, right, because you're keeping score for yourself. There's no

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Speaker 3: like referee or official watching over you.

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Speaker 4: And I didn't want to I don't want to be

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Speaker 4: labor is pulling up the quotes even though they are funny.

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Speaker 4: But I have to say, in the interest of fairness

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Speaker 4: and being very apolitical here, it is also possible that

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Speaker 4: the business tycoons accusing each other of cheating at golf

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Speaker 4: might just be sore losers. M you know. So anyway,

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Speaker 4: golf is not without controversy. No sport is. There's all

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Speaker 4: the drama between players. You know, We've got this almost

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Speaker 4: Shakespearean tragedies of the of the great athletes who find

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Speaker 4: themselves fallen on hard time. Shout out Tiger Woods. He

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Speaker 4: did disagreements, but that's not what we're here for tonight,

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Speaker 4: because to really get into this. We have to go

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Speaker 4: past the US and Scotland guys all the way out

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Speaker 4: to the Middle East. This might finally be the episode

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Speaker 4: that gets us jammed up at customs. But the Kingdom

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Speaker 4: of Saudi Arabia never been.

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Speaker 3: No, right, no. Many of you listening will probably be

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Speaker 3: aware that this is an incredibly rish nation, incredibly wealthy.

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Speaker 3: It's located in the Middle East, home of the most

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Speaker 3: important holy sites to the Muslim faith, and also home

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Speaker 3: to incredibly dense and rich fossil fuel reserves or fossil

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Speaker 3: fuel deposits.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oil has been very important for ye old KSA,

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Speaker 2: and I think one of the main things that we're

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Speaker 2: going to be looking at today is what do you

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Speaker 2: do as a giant, wealthy country when you know that

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Speaker 2: your primary resource that has built all the wealth is

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Speaker 2: beginning to fade away from popular opinion right or to

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Speaker 2: be soured amongst popular opinion of the world.

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Speaker 3: What do you do.

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Speaker 4: Well? And if you join us for past episodes, you

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Speaker 4: know that this is something the kingdom has been wrestling

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Speaker 4: with for quite some time, for decades now, because people

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Speaker 4: in the petroleum industry had the predictive science about the

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Speaker 4: decline of fossil fuels far before the public did so.

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Speaker 4: The ruling powers, not just in Saudi Arabia, but in

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Speaker 4: other oil rich nations, especially in the Middle East, they

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Speaker 4: knew about this, and if you are running a long

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Speaker 4: term sustainable economy, you never wanted reliant upon a single

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Speaker 4: export or product or type of product. Right, So they

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Speaker 4: have made a pivot. Maybe there will be a future

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Speaker 4: episode about some of their other things, but from now,

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Speaker 4: let's leave that right there and introduce you to the

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Speaker 4: other piece. We all we have to say, we have

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Speaker 4: to acknowledge the issue in the room. Look Saudi Arabia

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Speaker 4: is a huge deal, not just for fossil fuel. The

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Speaker 4: most important holy sites of the Muslim faith are located there.

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Speaker 4: You've also likely heard of the huge problems the nation

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Speaker 4: has historically had with their human rights abuses, their treatment

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Speaker 4: of women, LGBTQ, foreign workers essentially being enslaved, they vivisected Kashaki,

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Speaker 4: They're terrible with journalists. They're known for very harsh enforcement

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Speaker 4: and interpretation of Islam. The list goes on. It's not

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Speaker 4: a democracy. It's a very powerful place. If you've met

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Speaker 4: folks from Saudi Arabia, you know they're awesome because people

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Speaker 4: are pretty much people wherever you go, but people are

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Speaker 4: not the country. No, And.

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Speaker 3: Gosh, can I just attempt this full name Ben?

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Speaker 5: Yes, yes, we just call him, but his full name

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Speaker 5: is Salomon, Ben Abdullah Ziz, Ben Abdul Raman, Ben Faisal,

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Speaker 5: Ben Turkey, Ben Abdullah, Ben Mohammad Ben Saud.

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Speaker 4: Great work, Nolan, Yeah, and everybody wondering Ben there is

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Speaker 4: spelled b I n like of yeah, like son of

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Speaker 4: yea of that family or of that lineage. You nailed that.

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Speaker 4: You you nailed that. We can see why people don't

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Speaker 4: always say his full name. Uh So that is the

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Speaker 4: person uh nol Us named is the king of Saudi Arabia.

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Speaker 4: But the guy we hear about most in the West

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Speaker 4: is the current Crown Prince and Prime Minister, Mohammed ben Salman.

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Speaker 4: And that's the guy much younger. You'll hear a lot

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Speaker 4: of quotes from him in the news. Will have some

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Speaker 4: for you this evening. He is definitely the policymaker of

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Speaker 4: the land, and he's done controversial, frankly brutal things. But

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Speaker 4: he's also known for instituting a series of sweeping reforms

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Speaker 4: that are in theory downright revolutionary for a country that

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Speaker 4: is this conservative. It's called Vision twenty thirty.

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Speaker 3: So in addition to kind of pulling back on some

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Speaker 3: of the historical restrictions and minor law changes, it also

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Speaker 3: aims to do what could be referred to kind of

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Speaker 3: as a rebrand, sort of a pr refresh of Saudi

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Speaker 3: Arabia's as you mentioned Ben, patently pretty negative image to visitors,

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Speaker 3: to outsiders, tourists and invest abroad. There was a particularly

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Speaker 3: snarky journalist that you found a quote from Ben who

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Speaker 3: put it this way, Saudi Arabia really wants.

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Speaker 4: You to think it's cool, which is, you know, I

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Speaker 4: don't know how they would react to that title. While

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Speaker 4: it may sound cavalier. Stephen A. Cook, writing for Foreign

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Speaker 4: Policy is correct Vision twenty thirty. A lot of people

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Speaker 4: are still pretty skeptical about the scope of it and

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Speaker 4: the timeline. As you can imagine, they want to do

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Speaker 4: a lot of stuff by twenty thirty, but right now

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Speaker 4: oil is still seventy five percent of Saudi Arabia's fiscal

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Speaker 4: revenue easily and forty percent of its GDP. It's it's

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Speaker 4: the right move.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, but I'm a big part of American policy

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Speaker 3: when whatever side of the aisle you know, people fall politically,

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Speaker 3: is to reduce our reliance on foreign oil. Like, that's

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Speaker 3: a pretty bipartisan issue, right.

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Speaker 4: Which is weird because the US is also in the

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Speaker 4: grand scheme of things and a fossil fuel rich.

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Speaker 3: Country, but nowhere near as much so as Saudi Arabia.

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Speaker 4: Right, no, no, no, But US crude oil exports reached

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Speaker 4: a record high just last year. So when you hear

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Speaker 4: people say the US is fighting to not be reliant

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Speaker 4: on foreign fuel, it's important to look at the current

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Speaker 4: numbers too. I know for sure this is exciting to

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Speaker 4: some people, even though it's deeply imperfect. They can be

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Speaker 4: seen as steps in the right direction human rights that

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Speaker 4: people have always deserved that are maybe slowly coming to

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Speaker 4: pass in this nation. But to others, granted, this is

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Speaker 4: an insincere performative dance for approval on the international stage.

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Speaker 4: This leads us to one of the weirdest controversies. Shout

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Speaker 4: out to our buddy Brian Towey, a type of conspiracy

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Speaker 4: called sports washing. What is it? I'll tell you after

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Speaker 4: a word from our sponsors, here's where it gets crazy,

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Speaker 4: all right, what is sports washing?

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Speaker 2: Well, according to Britannica money Sportswashing is the use of

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Speaker 2: an athletic event by an individual or government, or a

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Speaker 2: corporation or another group to promote or burnish the individuals

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Speaker 2: or group's reputation, especially amid controversy or scandal. What so

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Speaker 2: they use sports to make themselves look good.

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Speaker 3: Whilst now I'm gonna see you here, guys, let's we

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Speaker 3: just let's have a good old friendly game of sports.

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Speaker 4: We're Russia, we love the Olympics.

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Speaker 2: Don't worry about the fifteen of nineteen terrorists that were

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Speaker 2: from Saudi Arabia that allegedly caused the nine to eleven attacks.

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Speaker 2: Don't worry about Jamal ka Shogi, who was a journalist

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Speaker 2: who got exiled because he said some stuff about the

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Speaker 2: King's son Wen Golff.

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Speaker 3: You guys get that right. You guys know what golf's about.

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Speaker 4: If you don't like golf, I've got other stuff. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: This is similar. It's a portmanteau similar to greenwashing or

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Speaker 4: which wash when yeah, which is when companies try to

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Speaker 4: distract from their environmental damage by appearing to do like

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Speaker 4: recycling programs are often accused of being greenwashing, and my

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Speaker 4: favorite part of this definition is that list of things

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Speaker 4: that might do it where they say individual, corporation, government,

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Speaker 4: or other group. I kept thinking what falls into miscellaneous?

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Speaker 4: Is it like your local improv group does sports washing?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 4: How small can a group be? How big do you

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Speaker 4: have to be to participate in sports washing? I guess

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Speaker 4: you have to be big enough to have a pro

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Speaker 4: sports team.

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Speaker 3: Improv can be pretty controversial. Ben say some pretty inflammatory

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Speaker 3: stuff in these sketches, But also I retract pink washing.

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Speaker 3: That's different, though it sounds similar. Pink washing is more

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Speaker 3: the sort of sale of like stuff geared towards you know,

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Speaker 3: women in a kind of offensive pandory way.

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Speaker 4: Huh Okay, Okay, yeah, I bet, I bet there aren't

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Speaker 4: tons of portmanteaus with washing right other than brainwashing that

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Speaker 4: will we'll run into. It's weird, though, because sportsa washing

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Speaker 4: is a pretty new term. It was printed in first

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Speaker 4: in print in twenty fifteen and was not referring to

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Speaker 4: Russia nor to Saudi Arabia. It was referring to Azerbaijan.

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Speaker 4: They had taken these actions with the European Games, and

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Speaker 4: a lot of critics said this is entirely a cynical

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Speaker 4: attempt to take focus off some of the horrible human

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Speaker 4: rights abuses you are committing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and groups like Amnesty International have used this term

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Speaker 3: as well to criticize other countries with similar controversies, trying

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Speaker 3: to kind of cover up their, you know, sins with

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Speaker 3: rollicking sporting events, including Russia's hosting of the twenty four

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Speaker 3: teen Olympic Games like you were mentioning or alluding to

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Speaker 3: a little while ago, ben and the twenty eighteen World Cup,

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Speaker 3: because again, these are just kind of these events are

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Speaker 3: we use them in America in a similar way sometimes right.

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Speaker 4: To cover up well, national anthem is at the top

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Speaker 4: of every ball game.

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Speaker 3: Sure, but like sporting events, there is this kind of

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Speaker 3: unifying quality to them that can be used propagandistically. And

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, I'm maybe I'm overstating the case,

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Speaker 3: but it feels like America can be guilty of this too,

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Speaker 3: just in terms of the fervor around sports, where it's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: look at this this. I mean, it's like bread and circuses, right,

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Speaker 3: It's a way of distracting from a fed up stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is weird. So I'm thinking about Olympic

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Speaker 2: Games in the United States, right. Two thousand and two

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Speaker 2: is when Salt Lake City happened. That was just before

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Speaker 2: we entered Iraq, right after nine to eleven and all

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Speaker 2: of that stuff. That's when one of the main places

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Speaker 2: where the United States has been accused of, you know,

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Speaker 2: some human rights stuff, right, Not that the United States

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Speaker 2: isn't accused of human rights stuff in places across the

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Speaker 2: world pretty much at all times with military actions and

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Speaker 2: like stuff that isn't quite a military action. But I

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Speaker 2: don't know that it's the same necessarily.

435
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 3: Oh no, I don't think it's the same. But I'm

436
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 3: just saying I can see the value. How sports are

437
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 3: clearly kind of like an obvious, you know, choice for

438
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 3: doing this kind of thing. Yeah, we don't do it

439
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 3: in the same way that these countries are doing it

440
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 3: because our reputation is kind of our reputation.

441
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 4: It seems like they's a little fluid. I'll tell you.

442
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 4: I'll tell you why they're too. No, because the the

443
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 4: thing that we have to remember in this context is

444
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 4: that the US already has huge cultural exports of soft

445
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 4: power that other countries may not possess at that same level.

446
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 4: So if you're the home of Hollywood and you have

447
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 4: one of the biggest entertainment industries in the world. Then

448
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 4: you're already getting a lot of that washing to distract

449
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 4: from things. Check out our previous episode on the Cozy

450
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 4: relationship and the sweetheart deals. The US military industrial complex

451
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 4: will make with you as a director or a production

452
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 4: studio so long as the army looks good in your movie. Yep,

453
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 4: they'll just let you drive the tanks. Yeah.

454
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 2: Which, by the way, Saudi Arabia has a big old

455
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 2: hand in Hollywood with its Vision twenty to thirty plan

456
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 2: that we were talking about.

457
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 3: So basically we wrote the playbook for a lot of

458
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 3: this stuff, is what I think the takeaway is here.

459
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 4: Well, when the case of sports washing, it's strange because,

460
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 4: like so many other things, the term itself, the language

461
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 4: for it, is new, but the strategy is old. Beans.

462
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 4: One of the most famous early examples of sports washing

463
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 4: before we all collectively learned the term, is the nineteen

464
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 4: thirty six Nazi Olympics. The Nazi already hosted the Olympics,

465
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 4: both because they wanted to look like the good guys

466
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 4: are a legitimate part of the international order, and then

467
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 4: also to them just as importantly, they wanted to prove

468
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 4: their disturbing pseudo scientific beliefs.

469
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 6: About race, and uh it blew up in their face

470
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 6: because yes, Jesse Owens right, they were wrong, kicked ass

471
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 6: he like absolutely blew away all of their aryan entries

472
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 6: in track and field.

473
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 3: And it was like a hugely embarrassing kind of pr

474
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 3: debacle for.

475
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 4: Old Hiller right, because their beliefs were and beat me

476
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 4: here at c Palin Tryers their beliefs were bullshit and

477
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 4: easily disprove it. So this this question is what all

478
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 4: right sportswa washing? What does this have to do to

479
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 4: South with Saudi Arabia. Even if you don't know much

480
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 4: about golf, and we're not the golf encyclopedias that some

481
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 4: people are, you've probably heard of the PGA Tour, right,

482
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 4: even if you've just been at David Busters and played

483
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 4: one of the golf games with the little rollie ball,

484
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 4: it's the big one.

485
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 3: I actually really like playing golf video games, whether they

486
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 3: be kind of goofy, you know, Mario type golf video

487
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 3: games or some of the PGA Tour ones.

488
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 4: I find it a little bit relaxing and I find

489
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 4: it meditative.

490
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 3: I enjoy it. Yeah, it's fun. It's a good chill

491
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 3: type of game to play that does involve some precision,

492
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 3: and it's sort of like a languid kind of pace

493
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 3: to it, and I can see why it's appealing to

494
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 3: some people. However, watching it on television, I do not

495
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 3: understand entirely. It just blows my mind to the people

496
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 3: will sit and watch golf on TV.

497
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 2: It's a professional golfers association. These are pros guys.

498
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 4: The PGA. Yeah, yeah.

499
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 3: Near where we live in Atlanta, we have a pg

500
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 3: where I live. In particular, in East Lake area of Atlanta,

501
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 3: there is the East Lake Golf Course which hosts a

502
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 3: PGA tour and it clogs stuff up real bad, you

503
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 3: know when it's happening because it's hard to get around.

504
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 4: But PGA is the big dog too. By the way,

505
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 4: PGA is the the organizer of professional golf tours in

506
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 4: North America. Back in twenty nineteen, there was a would

507
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 4: be rival that I guess smelled the money. So back

508
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 4: in twenty nineteen, a would be upstart must have smelled

509
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 4: the money. Entered the proverbial chat. They wanted to usurp

510
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 4: the role of the PGA, and in a burst of creativity,

511
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 4: they called themselves the Premiere Golf League, the pg L.

512
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 3: It's one letter different.

513
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 4: It's cool, yeah, but that sounds like Vanilla Ice saying

514
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 4: that he didn't rip off that drum track.

515
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 3: It is funny though, because they definitely intentionally left the

516
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 3: P and the G in there because p stands are

517
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,479
Speaker 3: something different. It's premiere, which is a little more vague

518
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 3: than professional. I would argue, you know, yeah, we're the best,

519
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 3: We're the one of the matters.

520
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 4: Which is like, what those kind of the strategy for

521
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 4: those sort of people, you know, like, can't it, will

522
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 4: steal it. That's a common strategy, right, because if you

523
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 4: think about the brass tacks they're saying, all right, what

524
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 4: if someone's buying and I guarantee this conversation happened. What

525
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 4: if someone's buying PGA tickets for a loved one and

526
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 4: they don't know much about golf at all, They can't

527
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 4: get PGA, but they see PGL and they're like, oh,

528
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 4: that's mostly the same, right, you know, like when your

529
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 4: grandma buys you a video game for the wrong console,

530
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 4: that's kind of the that's kind of the idea. But

531
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 4: they also, you know, this happens all the time in sports.

532
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 4: So this group a Premier Golf League. They're in talks

533
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 4: with Saudi investors early on and they say, let's get

534
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 4: some kind of financial partnership going. Yes, they're probably playing

535
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 4: golf when they added these conversations too. Yeah, it's true.

536
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 4: But in twenty twenty something something went awry. Because Saudi

537
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 4: Arabia's sovereign wealth fund is known as the Public Investment Fund.

538
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 4: They said, hey, we'll make our own I'm not going

539
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 4: to quote Bender from Futurama, but they said, we'll make

540
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 4: our own golf league.

541
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 3: Oh. I thought the PGL was that thing. I got it.

542
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 3: So the PGL was like another American interest that Saudi's

543
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 3: were investing in, and they're like, you know, let's take

544
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 3: this a step further. We'll launch something called the l

545
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 3: I V or LIV Golf Investments under the Golf Saudi Moniker.

546
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 4: Right, we're usurping the usurpers.

547
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's wild. What a power move.

548
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 4: And the Public Investment Fund is a story, it's all

549
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 4: its own. That's where you see multi billions of dollars

550
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 4: worth of investments and all sorts of things that you

551
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 4: probably don't recognize as influenced by this money.

552
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 3: This is something where I guess there's some sort of

553
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 3: committee behind making these decisions, and the decisions are pretty

554
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 3: shadowy in terms of how things get done or where

555
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 3: the money goes.

556
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, just to be clear, the citizens in Saudi

557
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 4: Arabia do not get devoted.

558
00:31:58,440 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 3: But it's public.

559
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, there's public information because of some lawsuits specifically

560
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 2: that we're involved between the PGA and LIV that we're

561
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 2: going to talk about. We know some of those investments.

562
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 2: Now you guys might if we just go over a

563
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 2: couple of them, just so we have some context of

564
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 2: what they invest in. So this PIF has holdings as

565
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 2: of oh gosh, this is from April twenty twenty three,

566
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: so this is probably changed. It's in a giant investment fund,

567
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 2: so they move money around and shares around a lot.

568
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 2: But as of April twenty twenty three, they owned eight

569
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 2: point nine billion dollars worth of Lucid stock, which is

570
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 2: that car manufacturer, three point two billion dollars worth of

571
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 2: Activision Blizzard, two point nine billion in Electronic Arts, two

572
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 2: point three billion in Uber, eight hundred and eighty million

573
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,719
Speaker 2: dollars in Live Nation. They own a ton like hundreds

574
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 2: of millions of dollars in Meta Starbucks PayPal, Microsoft, Carnival

575
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: as in like Cruises, Costco, JP, Morgan Chase, and Blackrock,

576
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 2: and there's so many more. Black Rock will by the way,

577
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 2: the real estate investment firm thing. They also own a

578
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 2: ton of Nintendo. They own eight point five eight percent

579
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 2: of Nintendo right now, that's a lot.

580
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's not a controlling stake, but it is

581
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 4: an influential stake. And yes, black Rock not to be

582
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 4: confused with the black Stone. The Rock set into the

583
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 4: eastern corner of the Kabba, the Public Investment Fund before

584
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 4: we before we go back to the golf stuff. It

585
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 4: has an estimated total asset of nine hundred and twenty

586
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 4: five billion dollars nine hundred and twenty five billion.

587
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 3: Let's just make it a cool trillion man, you know.

588
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 4: I know, right, They're so so close, right, And the

589
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 4: purpose of this investment is to diversify the economy, to

590
00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 4: bring Saudi Arabia further into the international order and sports

591
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 4: in specific. For this episode, it became a great way

592
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 4: to accomplish that. In October twenty twenty one, Golf Saudi

593
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 4: division of the Public Investment Fund. Because it's that big,

594
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 4: they have a bunch of divisions who just work on

595
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 4: specific ideas golf. Saudi launched Live Golf Investments LIV. You know,

596
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 4: like how the cool apps don't put the E at

597
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 4: the end of their stuff sometimes.

598
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 3: I always found this silent letters to be a bit obnoxious.

599
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 4: Anyway, So yeah, you think they're presumptuous a little bit.

600
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 3: They really insisted on them.

601
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:34,760
Speaker 4: So you must hate French.

602
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 3: I enjoy the French.

603
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 4: Yeah. Okay, So there's a legendary golfer named Greg Norman.

604
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,399
Speaker 4: I got excited about this, but it's not a guy,

605
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,919
Speaker 4: I know, it's just a very common name, Greg.

606
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did.

607
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 4: For a second, I thought, oh snap, Greg. He is

608
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 4: named the CEO PIF Fund and live as billions bot

609
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 4: billions of profits from fossil fuels. So they go around

610
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 4: to all of the biggest names in the world of

611
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 4: golf and they say, hey, how much money.

612
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 3: Well, they need a face, they need a recognizable face

613
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 3: for their operations, somebody who's beloved, you know, by followers

614
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 3: of the game of golf. And they you know, went

615
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,720
Speaker 3: to the top names, starting with folks like Tiger Woods

616
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:30,240
Speaker 3: who did turn it down, whether it be for philosophical reasons,

617
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 3: ethical reasons, or they just didn't hit his rate.

618
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 4: His quote, he said it was as a matter of

619
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 4: loyalty because good for TIGERSGA had done so much for

620
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,240
Speaker 4: him and for the game of golf, and they offered

621
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 4: him more than seven hundred million dollars. Dude.

622
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,439
Speaker 2: ABC News said eight hundred million dollars, which, again, those

623
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,399
Speaker 2: kinds of numbers. What's the difference between seven hundred million

624
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 2: and eight hundred million. I don't know that I could

625
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 2: really tell you.

626
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, we don't have a nine hundred billion and a trillion,

627
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, it's like, might as well be

628
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 3: infinity money.

629
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 4: We Yeah, we don't have the specifics obviously of the deal,

630
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 4: but most news sources are going to estimate it as

631
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 4: saying between more than seven hundred up to eight hundred million.

632
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 4: And then so Tiger Woods and other people said no,

633
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 4: and then other golfers like Greg Norman.

634
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 3: I do not know.

635
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 4: It's crazy. I feel like I know three people named

636
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 4: Greg Norman.

637
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 3: I just know him from growing up around golf and Augusta, Georgia.

638
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 4: Other people like him and Phil Mickelson. Then, just to

639
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,399
Speaker 4: show this up, they didn't say yes, they did play ball.

640
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I understand, Like, the only reason I have any

641
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 3: association with names like this is because growing up in

642
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 3: my hometown, which is the home of the Augusta National

643
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,800
Speaker 3: where the Master's golf tournament is played, and it is

644
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 3: a big deal in the city of Augusta.

645
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, guys like Bubba Watson, which was a big deal.

646
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 2: I remember there were news stories when he went over

647
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: to live as well, and he was just like, hey, sorry, guys,

648
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,280
Speaker 2: this is about my family a money.

649
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 4: By Yeah, golf clubs are expensive, which I was just

650
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 4: learning to.

651
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 3: By the way, Yaviar's expensive.

652
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 2: Just to bring in this ABC News article because I

653
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 2: think it speaks to why this is such a weird situation.

654
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 2: ABC News is talking about this, right, They posted an

655
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 2: article in March of this year called Live Golf's controversial

656
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 2: growth raises questions over Saudi sportswashing, right, the very thing

657
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 2: we're talking about here, and ABC News the person who

658
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 2: wrote this had to write this in the article.

659
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 3: Guys.

660
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 2: Quote the PIF we're talking about here, the Public Investment Fund,

661
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 2: which also owns a minority stake in Disney, the parent

662
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 2: company of ABC News and Hulu. Again, like all of

663
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 2: these companies together, the person writing this has to make

664
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 2: this concession because Saudi Arabia is investing so much money

665
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 2: across entertainment and sports and all these things that literally

666
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 2: to even talk about it often as a journalist, you

667
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 2: have to be aware that you are probably being touched

668
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 2: by this Saudi money.

669
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 4: Right, Saudi Arabia. Also, I would say it's less a

670
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 4: concession and more like the ethics of journalism, Like when

671
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 4: NPR says short of our funding is here, it's just

672
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 4: to just to get in from of disclosure, right, full

673
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 4: disclosure maybe. But with this, it also reminds me our

674
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 4: parent company, iHeart is associated with Live Nation, and who

675
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 4: who has a stake in Live Nation?

676
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 2: Well that's yeah, yeah, exactly this one. But there's according

677
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 2: to that article, this Sovereign Wealth Fund has invested thirteen

678
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 2: point five billion dollars into sports since it started, Right,

679
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 2: So if you've got that much money just going into sports,

680
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 2: and then you know that there's like one point three

681
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 2: trillion dollars in total that has been invested like since

682
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 2: the inception of this twenty thirty thing, and then you

683
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 2: know that all this money is just spreading out. When

684
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 2: I'm saying like everybody's being touched by it, it just

685
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 2: means you there's a level of full disclosure is one thing,

686
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 2: but there's a level of anyone writing about it has

687
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 2: to just be a little more careful absolutely when they're

688
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 2: doing that.

689
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 3: Well, you know, like you said, the Saudi money touches

690
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 3: so much industry, and for a good reason are they

691
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 3: investing in sports beyond the whole sports watching of it.

692
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 3: It's just good business. It's a way making a.

693
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 2: Crap ton of money, and everybody wants it.

694
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 4: That's a great point to you, Noel, because the PIF,

695
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 4: the Public Investment Fund, began in nineteen seventy one, so

696
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 4: even the numbers you're getting now about their total financial

697
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 4: assets are not counting other things that have grown over time,

698
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 4: right because compound interest I think was Mark Twain had

699
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 4: a great quote about compound interest, which I will slow

700
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 4: us down with now. But the point you made that

701
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 4: really stands out to me there, Noal, is that if

702
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 4: your goal is to diversify your economy, right, then of

703
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 4: course you want to invest in a whole bunch of

704
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 4: other things. It would be cartoonish to say, we're too

705
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,720
Speaker 4: reliant on fossil fuels, so let's invest everything in corn,

706
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 4: you know what I mean? Because now you're just too

707
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 4: little corn. It's fine a little. The corn is fine

708
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 4: as a treat. But now otherwise you're taking all your

709
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 4: eggs and just putting them in a different basket made

710
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 4: of corn husks. Perhaps, so it's not necessarily just on

711
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 4: the economic structure and strategy, there is not itself inherently sinister.

712
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 4: The problem comes when we consider that in the context

713
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 4: of all these other controversies surrounding the kingdom and live golf.

714
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 2: Well, you just have to consider how many corporations out

715
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 2: there are wanting an investment from Saudi Arabia because you can.

716
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 2: If you can get two billion dollars injected into whatever

717
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 2: your company is doing, that's amazing. And everybody's looking for

718
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 2: that year over a year, quarter over a quarter increase.

719
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,959
Speaker 2: And if you've got like two twenty one hundred billion

720
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 2: dollars to play with your and he's going to do

721
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 2: just fine.

722
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 4: And if you can keep it quiet to avoid controversy, right,

723
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 4: if you can get it through a subsidiary of a subsidiary,

724
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,760
Speaker 4: the money spends the same and you can possibly avoid

725
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 4: the bad optics or the.

726
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 2: Great optics of Hey, investors, he just got two more

727
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 2: billion dollars to play with. And then stock shoots up,

728
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 2: and then everybody makes money because Saudi Arabia has got

729
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 2: you know, a minority share.

730
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 4: Now, yeah, my point was that I think a lot

731
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:31,399
Speaker 4: of them are getting money through subsidiaries in a way

732
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 4: that helps obscure the origin of Saudi Arabia and industries

733
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 4: where that might be sensitive and maybe I mean correct.

734
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 3: Oh, I think it's certainly part of it. But I

735
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 3: think it's also on a pr level easy to explain

736
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 3: the investment away because it's like, duh, we're business people.

737
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 3: We are investing in things that make us money. It

738
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 3: doesn't have to be some sort of nefarious plot.

739
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 4: You know.

740
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 3: I'm not saying the two things don't coexist, but I

741
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 3: think it's easy to explain it away on a public

742
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 3: relationship level by just saying this is just good business.

743
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 4: And taking it back to Live Golf for the record,

744
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 4: you know, people love golf obviously, obviously, people love sports,

745
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 4: people love golf. Live Golf has always claimed that we

746
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 4: want to holistically improve the health of professional golf. That's

747
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 4: quote from their website and to quote, help unlock the

748
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 4: sports potential. A lot of the old Guard was again

749
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 4: pretty miffed about this, and they're some of the most

750
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 4: strident critics of Saudi Arabia's moves in this field, and

751
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 4: a lot of longtime critics of Saudi Arabia for other

752
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 4: stuff on the human rights spectrum. They just said, Saudi

753
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 4: Arabia is doing this not because they like golf, not

754
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 4: because it's a good investment for them economically, but because

755
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 4: it's a geopolitical conspiracy. This is to improve the soft

756
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 4: power of the country, their international reputation and say like, hey, yeah,

757
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 4: we're doing evil things to human beings with our left hand.

758
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 4: Look at us. We also have the golf at our

759
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 4: right hand, so pay attention to that hand.

760
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 3: But ben are they being very publicly forward in branding

761
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 3: and the like associating the country with they are Okay,

762
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 3: oh yeah, I want to hear more about that.

763
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, We're get do great. Great quote Ardi.

764
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 4: So there's a news conference ahead of Live Golf's first event,

765
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 4: and reporters were to the thing about journalistic ethics and integrity.

766
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 4: Reporters were asking questions like Phil Mickelson, who we mentioned

767
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 4: just a few moments ago. He was asked directly, quote,

768
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 4: isn't there a danger that you're seeing as a tool

769
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 4: of sports washing and the sports washing question came up

770
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 4: over and over again in these Western press conferences, and

771
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 4: then another human rights group released a great study. They're

772
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 4: called Grant Liberty and their report on Saudi Arabian sports

773
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 4: washing efforts. They take it as a given. They just say, look,

774
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 4: because of all the money the potential in this sports

775
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 4: as if you think about it, well it's not on

776
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 4: the level of fossil fuel, but it is a multi

777
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 4: billion dollar industry. They said, now they're trying to lighten

778
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 4: their image. I don't know, that's the thing. This is

779
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 4: the question I have for you guys. We we know

780
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 4: people try to start new sports orgs all the time.

781
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,479
Speaker 4: It's a huge coup to host a global sporting event,

782
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 4: from racing to the World Cup in the Olympics. Is

783
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 4: it inherently sinister?

784
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 3: Well, that was the question that I think I was

785
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 3: our Devil's advocating for earlier. You know, just the idea

786
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 3: that it can at very least be explained away, that

787
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 3: it is not inherently sinister. This just makes sense. We

788
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 3: love this stuff, we love the sport. We want to help,

789
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 3: you know, make it better. And I believe that group

790
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 3: that you quoted, Ben or that you cited Grant Liberty

791
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 3: kind of summed it up exactly that way. Sports has loved,

792
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 3: they said, and played around the world. That is a

793
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,240
Speaker 3: giant unifying force, and it's also a multi billion dollar industry.

794
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 3: By associating themselves with sport, leaders are seeking to position

795
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 3: their country in line with that magic. They want to

796
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 3: bask in reflected glory and like you said, ben lighten

797
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 3: their image.

798
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, there's also a convenience factor. Maybe I don't

799
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 4: think this applies to Saudi Arabia's rulers, to be honest,

800
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 4: but if you have the big global event for any

801
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 4: particular sport in your country, you get national pride. And

802
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 4: also everybody who lives there doesn't have to spend thousands

803
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 4: of dollars, you know, on plane flights or traveling by

804
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,439
Speaker 4: cargo ship or rail, and they don't have to spend

805
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 4: thousands of dollars on hotels. I don't know if that

806
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 4: applies to the ruling powers of Saudi Arabia. I don't

807
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 4: think they're worried about like getting the cheapest flight on

808
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:53,399
Speaker 4: Delta or whatever.

809
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 3: No, probably not.

810
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 2: I want to point one thing out, guys, because I

811
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 2: think I think it has exactly to do with this.

812
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 2: There's this group called nine to Eleven Families United, and

813
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 2: it's shared by someone named Terry Strata, whose husband was

814
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,879
Speaker 2: killed in the nine to eleven attacks. And when Live

815
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 2: Golf was first announced back in twenty twenty one, this

816
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 2: group came forward and began protesting and writing and speaking

817
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 2: publicly about it because of the at the time in

818
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, more and more information that was coming

819
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 2: out right before that about how Saudi Arabia's intelligence arms

820
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 2: or at least government officials likely had something to do

821
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 2: with the September eleventh attacks. And we're talking actual intelligence,

822
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 2: not like just people writing conspiracy theories online. This was

823
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 2: a real news story that was starting to happen. If

824
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:52,720
Speaker 2: you look at pro Publica, they put out a story

825
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:56,280
Speaker 2: this year on September eleventh titled at least two Saudi

826
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 2: officials may have deliberately assisted nine to eleven hijackers. New

827
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:03,800
Speaker 2: evidence suggests this is one of the primary stories that

828
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 2: exist in the Western world and especially in the United States,

829
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 2: when it comes to when you think about Saudi Arabia,

830
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 2: what do you think about? And if this stuff is

831
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 2: in the news cycle pretty consistently, then live Golf is

832
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 2: one way as we're saying here, So just shift what

833
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 2: people are thinking about. The first couple of things they

834
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 2: think about. When they hear Saudi Arabia, right, or the

835
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 2: kingdom or the prince or the king or something like that,

836
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 2: you think, oh, yeah, so that's a live golf guys, right,

837
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 2: not this.

838
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,879
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, that's definitely one of the criticism or that's

839
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,439
Speaker 4: the fundamental piece of sportswa washing, you know, going into

840
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 4: the timing of something just like soachy and just like

841
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 4: the Nazi Olympics. But we also have to ask, you know,

842
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 4: with something in the magnitude of nine to eleven, how

843
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 4: much could golf move the needle or is it more

844
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 4: death by a thousand paper cuts? Because we know, you know,

845
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 4: it reminds me of the pr moves on a much

846
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 4: smaller level that different agencies will do where they want

847
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 4: something to get off the first page of search results,

848
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 4: so they figure out something else to happen, right, like

849
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 4: a new news story to be manufactured and appear to

850
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 4: go viral.

851
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.

852
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 2: But the PGA Commissioner J Monahan, when live golf was announced,

853
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 2: basically jumped on with the exact talking points the nine

854
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 2: to eleven families United was saying, saying, this is basically

855
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 2: a moral issue, more so than even a money issue

856
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 2: or appearance issue. It's just crazy to think that that

857
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 2: is where it existed, at least in the minds of

858
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 2: the people behind the PGA, when they were looking at

859
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 2: a competitor like Live showing up.

860
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 4: I'm glad that points brought up there, because yes, the

861
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 4: international public renown is a huge factor. But we have

862
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 4: to ask, in all fairness, all the evil corruption and

863
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 4: conspiracy vivisection of journalists aside, what makes Saudi Arabia different.

864
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 4: This is a question I have, and I think it's

865
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 4: a very important question to that note about the PGA.

866
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 4: How much of the criticism is valid spoiler a lot?

867
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 4: And how much is being propagated by older forces in

868
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 4: those organizations like the PGA. How much are they acting

869
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 4: out of self preservation versus out of noble aspirations for

870
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 4: human rights. As sticky as it is to say, I

871
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 4: will posit that both things can be true at once agreed,

872
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 4: So in our notes we have this as the part

873
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,399
Speaker 4: that might get us banned from Saudi Arabia, the one

874
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 4: that might get us jammed up at Saudi Arabian customs.

875
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 4: Saudi Arabia is not just getting into golf. They're going

876
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:53,320
Speaker 4: into sports overall in a big, big way. Some controlling

877
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:57,320
Speaker 4: stakes were in various other industries were mentioned earlier, and

878
00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 4: we tease that there was more than just golf of

879
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 4: foots here. But you can look at the links. The

880
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 4: Public Investment Fund owns controlling stakes, not just minority stakes,

881
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:13,800
Speaker 4: controlling stakes in Newcastle United, for Saudi domestic football or

882
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 4: soccer teams. It had a stake in Formula One's parent company,

883
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 4: McLaren Group. And then they're they're getting big into esports too, Right,

884
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 4: what's the difference between esports? Guys, this is such a

885
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 4: dumb question, but I'm not afraid of dumb questions. What's

886
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 4: the difference to esports and sports video games?

887
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:38,839
Speaker 3: Isn't esports like professional league like leagues? Oh that's okay, Yeah, yeah,

888
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 3: you're right, you're right.

889
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 2: Esport is any game first version, shooters, you know, like

890
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 2: those Dota games, any of that stuff.

891
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:49,879
Speaker 3: On a competitive, like professional level.

892
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 2: Right, you can have sports games esports.

893
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 4: That makes sense. And they also got a some of

894
00:50:58,080 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 4: us in the crowdle like this. They also have a

895
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 4: mind already stake in a rival to the UFC, the

896
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 4: US Professional Fighters League. So yet again we see the

897
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,320
Speaker 4: letters play. There's the PFL and the UFC their ideas.

898
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,280
Speaker 4: They're going to launch an MMA league and a super

899
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 4: fight division, all located in Saudi Arabia. Oh. Also, pro

900
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 4: wrestling is big. We know some folks who work for

901
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 4: WWE and have traveled to Saudi Arabia to stage events

902
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 4: there were It's pretty much everything boxing, horse racing, sailing, tennis.

903
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 4: You know what I'm excited about, Saudi Arabian sumo wrestling.

904
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:40,879
Speaker 4: Maybe you finally get a ticket that's not I don't

905
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:41,479
Speaker 4: know if that's happen.

906
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:43,399
Speaker 3: Isn't that cool? I mean, so that's the thing that's

907
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:46,760
Speaker 3: interesting to me too. It's like sports aren't considered cultural

908
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,760
Speaker 3: appropriation because it's like, even if a sport was invented

909
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 3: in a certain country, after a certain point, it becomes

910
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 3: kind of this universal thing. But like sumo wrestling, I

911
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 3: mean like that, I know you're sort of joking, but

912
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 3: where where did the line get drawn in terms of like,

913
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 3: but culture is associated with a particular type of event.

914
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 4: That's a good question, man, because we know that there

915
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:12,280
Speaker 4: are non Japanese national folks who have become professional sumo wrestlers.

916
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 4: I'm now I'm becoming the problem because I'm wondering if

917
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 4: it would just be easier to get a ticket to

918
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 4: a sumo event Saudi Arabia took over.

919
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean, answer if it was like a

920
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 3: bicultural sort of exchange and it was like we agree

921
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 3: that we want to proliferate the sport beyond Japan and

922
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 3: include you know, I mean, I don't know. I'm sorry,

923
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 3: I didn't mean to get into the weeds there. It's

924
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 3: just that is interesting because for certain things like you know,

925
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 3: baseball or basketball or football, you know, really he certainly

926
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:44,800
Speaker 3: it's American, I guess. But it's also like soccer is

927
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,720
Speaker 3: huge in Europe and it's a huge in South America,

928
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:50,279
Speaker 3: and only just recently has it become a more of

929
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 3: a phenomenon here in the States.

930
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 4: So the cultural side of it is interesting to me. Yeah, yeah,

931
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,799
Speaker 4: that's I think that's a deep question too. I mean,

932
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 4: we know, all in all Saudi Arabia's eighty five major

933
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 4: separate events, and at every turn in all of these events,

934
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 4: you'll hear people accusing athletes, managers, and coaches of being

935
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 4: functionally complacent, right of essentially taking the thirty pieces of

936
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 4: silver to betray humanity right and distract from these serious,

937
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 4: very real human rights abuses. So what's the motivation really?

938
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,320
Speaker 4: It depends on who you ask why all this recent

939
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 4: massive investment Before we get to monopolization that we wanted

940
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 4: to mention, I think we go directly to the Crown

941
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 4: Prince Mohamed Salman to ask about this. He is pretty

942
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:50,320
Speaker 4: blunt about it in interviews, and he makes no secret

943
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,720
Speaker 4: of the massive financial motivations of play. He was speaking

944
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 4: to Fox News and said he didn't care about the

945
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 4: debate around sports washing. He was interviewed by Brett Bahar,

946
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 4: the same guy who earlier interviewed VP Harris. Quite recently,

947
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 4: as we record, and this is in September twentieth of

948
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:16,839
Speaker 4: twenty twenty three, the Crown print says, Look, I don't

949
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 4: care if sports washing is going to increase my GDP

950
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 4: by one percent, will continue doing sports washing. I don't care.

951
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 4: I have one percent growth in GDP from sport and

952
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 4: I'm aiming to get another one point five percent. Call

953
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 4: it what you want, we are going to get that

954
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 4: one point five percent.

955
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,319
Speaker 3: Well, and while that's like mega blunt and I think

956
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 3: that's interesting in and of itself. It is exactly that

957
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 3: kind of diversionary explaining away of like the no, duh,

958
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 3: we're gonna do this. It's like really good for our

959
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 3: gross domestic product and whatever you want to call it.

960
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 3: You call it that, but that's not why we're doing it.

961
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:52,399
Speaker 2: We're just making money over here.

962
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:54,879
Speaker 4: Well, I think it was even more so that he's

963
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 4: just not going to even countenance the conversation, right, dignify

964
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 4: it with a response? Right, would the old media training

965
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 4: thing answer the question you wish you were asked? And

966
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:08,719
Speaker 4: the Kingdom is still an extremely dangerous place for those

967
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 4: seen as violating its laws. We can't forget that eighty

968
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 4: one people were executed there on a single day just

969
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 4: back in twenty twenty two. These are very recent events.

970
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 4: So what happens next in golf specifically? I think we

971
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 4: wanted to talk about some more mergers and acquisitions.

972
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, for since Live Golf was established and they

973
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 2: got Phil Mickelson and several other high profile people, they

974
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,320
Speaker 2: were investing billions and billions of dollars starting this new thing. PGA,

975
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,879
Speaker 2: the PGA Group or the PGA Tour and Live Golf

976
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 2: have been embroiled in a legal battle, and it's been

977
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 2: ongoing and ongoing, and all of a sudden, and by

978
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 2: the way, there are clear sides that were taken, especially

979
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 2: amongst the professional golfers. We talked about that a little bit.

980
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 2: There are clear sides for supporters who are just of golf,

981
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:03,799
Speaker 2: some people going over to live golf and totally fine

982
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 2: with it in its new version of what golf is,

983
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 2: or could be other people who want that old who

984
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 2: want that old golf feeling and hanging out with PGA.

985
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,719
Speaker 3: Right, like Tiger and right he stayed behind. Yeah, is

986
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 3: just a big name that like went over. Let's see

987
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,320
Speaker 3: that became CEO Greg Norman.

988
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 2: Right, So that you've got these and they were there

989
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 2: were like fighting sides, right, mean things are being said,

990
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 2: bad things are being said about each other basically. Then

991
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 2: all of a sudden in June there's a huge announcement

992
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 2: made by the same guy that I mentioned a quote

993
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,759
Speaker 2: from earlier, Jay Monahan, who's the PGA Tour commissioner. He

994
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 2: came out and basically said, okay, guys, we've come to

995
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 2: a deal Live Golf, the PGA Tour as well as

996
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:49,359
Speaker 2: this thing called the dp World Tour. We're all coming

997
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 2: together and we're going to function as one thing. We're

998
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 2: going to unify golf across the world as one thing,

999
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:03,840
Speaker 2: basically by merger efforts and money, which was crazy to everybody,

1000
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:08,919
Speaker 2: for everybody, because well especially people on the PGA side,

1001
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 2: because it was a battle that was being fought to

1002
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:15,239
Speaker 2: prevent this very thing from happening, right from either live

1003
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 2: golf overtaking the PGA Tour or from merging with a

1004
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 2: bunch of Saudi Arabian money to turn the pg Tour

1005
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 2: into something else. And now the commissioner, who was publicly

1006
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 2: fighting back and fighting legal battles, just said, now it's cool, guys,

1007
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 2: we're all going we're all coming together. Here's a quote

1008
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 2: from Jay. What we're talking about today is coming together

1009
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 2: to unify the game of golf, and to do so

1010
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 2: under one umbrella. We've recognized that together we can have

1011
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 2: a far greater impact on this game than we can

1012
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 2: working apart. The game of golf is better for what

1013
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 2: we've done here today. Very reverent, Well, you know, it

1014
00:57:57,120 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 2: sounds like to me, it sounds like somebody who skied.

1015
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 3: Absolutely, he's spouting a line. For sure, I'm saying the

1016
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 3: tone of that though, is so self congratulatory it kind

1017
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 3: of makes you throw up in your mouth a little bit. Yeah,

1018
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 3: it's a little weird.

1019
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 4: And for now, the story continues. We didn't say much

1020
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 4: about the human rights abuses other than to refer to them,

1021
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 4: but we have mentioned notable moments. You can learn more

1022
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 4: about that in past episodes of our show, as well

1023
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 4: as your own searches. The specific initiative for sports overall

1024
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 4: and Saudi Arabia acquisition thereof continues at a rapid pace.

1025
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 4: Saudi Arabia has recently won the rights to stage the

1026
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 4: finals of the Asian Champions League football tournament, then the

1027
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 4: twenty thirty four Asian Games, the twenty twenty seven Asian Cup,

1028
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 4: the twenty twenty nine Winter Olympics, and is going to

1029
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 4: host the twenty thirty four World Cup, by far, one

1030
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 4: of the biggest sports events on the planet. So a

1031
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 4: lot of people believe more Olympic bids are only a

1032
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 4: matter of time. To put it simply, Saudi Arabia's riches

1033
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 4: are transforming the landscape of sporting and there's a controversial,

1034
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 4: profound shift and influence taking place. While people are going

1035
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 4: to raise concerns continually, I think it is highly unlikely

1036
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 4: that the sporting world is gonna somehow unanimously turn away

1037
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 4: from billions upon billions of dollars.

1038
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 3: That's just not how.

1039
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 4: Sports or business works, right, Nope, it's not really the

1040
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 4: m O. And so with this we'll keep an eye

1041
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 4: on the story. We hope you do. Two folks, we

1042
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 4: would love to hear your thoughts. We don't always do

1043
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 4: sports episodes, but we try to make them special when

1044
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 4: we get to it. Is this on the up and up?

1045
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 4: Or is something else afoot on the on the global

1046
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 4: course of golf something they don't want you to know.

1047
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 4: Tell us your thoughts. We can't wait to hear your experiences,

1048
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 4: especially in just to help us out on some other things,

1049
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 4: especially if you can name your favorite weird sport and

1050
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 4: maybe tell us what the Saudi government should invest in next.

1051
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 4: We tried to be easy to find online.

1052
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 3: That's right. You can find us all over your Internet

1053
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 3: platforms of choice at the handle Conspiracy Stuff, where we exist,

1054
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:18,760
Speaker 3: on Facebook, where we have our Facebook group, Here's where

1055
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 3: it gets crazy, on x FKA Twitter, as well as

1056
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 3: on YouTube, where you can find glorious quantities of video

1057
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 3: content for your perusal. If you'd like to find us

1058
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 3: on Instagram and TikTok. However, we are conspiracy stuff show

1059
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 3: on those platforms.

1060
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 2: If you want to call us, call one eight three

1061
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:42,960
Speaker 2: three STDWYTK. Call us after you've checked out that ABC

1062
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 2: News article PGA Tour Live Golf DP World Tour unify

1063
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 2: under one umbrella. What do you think about this as

1064
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 2: a conclusion? What are you going to keep watching golf

1065
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 2: now that it's something different?

1066
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 3: Do you even like golf?

1067
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 2: I don't know. Just call us and tell us things

1068
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 2: about golf this time or tangentially related. Please, when you

1069
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 2: call in, give yourself a cool nickname. Say whatever you'd like.

1070
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 4: Just do.

1071
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 2: Let us know if we can use your name and

1072
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 2: message on the air. If you've got more to say,

1073
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 2: then can fit in one voicemail. Why not instead send

1074
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 2: us a good old fashioned email.

1075
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 4: We are the entity is you read every single piece

1076
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 4: of correspondence we receive. It's one of our favorite ways

1077
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 4: for you to contact us. Give us the links, give

1078
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 4: us the photographs, no word limit. Go as long as

1079
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 4: you want. A cool nickname is great. We've got your back.

1080
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 4: Let us know if you need to be anonymous, and

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01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 4: if you want to learn about sports washing overall. Check

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01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 4: out that study we mentioned by Grant Liberty. It's pretty

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Speaker 4: in the weeds, but it's worth the time, perhaps most importantly,

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01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 4: for unrelated reasons, again your favorite weird sport? Have you

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01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:50,560
Speaker 4: ever heard of? Toe wrestling? Just the phrase makes us uncomfortable,

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01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:52,720
Speaker 4: But there's a lot out there and we can't wait

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01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 4: to hear your stories about it. So join us out

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01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 4: here in the dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

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Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production

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01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.