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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.

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Speaker 2: A death occurs after a teen prank. You don't have

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Speaker 2: to answer out loud, but just be honest. Have you

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Speaker 2: ever egged anybody? Think about it. Don't incriminate yourself as

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Speaker 2: your brother egged somebody a friend girl, you know, back

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Speaker 2: when you were teens in high school. Well, this prank

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Speaker 2: ends up with a guy dead in the middle of

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Speaker 2: the road. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks

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Speaker 2: for being with us here at Fox Nation and Serious

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Speaker 2: XM one eleven. First of all, take a listen to

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Speaker 2: our friends at crimeonline dot com.

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Speaker 3: On a hot July night in Spaulding, Georgia, deputies respond

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Speaker 3: to a call of a man down in the roadway.

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Speaker 3: When deputies arrived to the one hundred block of Dobbins

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Speaker 3: Mill Road, they locate a white male down in the

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Speaker 3: roadway and discover he has been shot and is now deceased.

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Speaker 3: The man is unarmed and there are no other people around.

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Speaker 3: The dead man has no identification on him.

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Speaker 2: Okay, right there, cops get called out to a country road.

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Speaker 2: A guy's dead in the middle of the road with

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Speaker 2: no id. First of all, how is that linked to

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Speaker 2: a simple egging? And when I say a simple egging,

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Speaker 2: no crime is ever really simple because the implications go

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Speaker 2: far beyond you. Ever heard of a shotlifting that ends

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Speaker 2: with a dead body, burglary that ends with murder, a

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Speaker 2: burglary that ends with a rape, or asrodomy, a simple

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Speaker 2: carjack ends in death, or a baby in the back

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Speaker 2: seat being kidnapped. I mean, no crime is really simple

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Speaker 2: with me and all start panel to make sense of

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Speaker 2: but we know right now, but joining me an outstanding

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Speaker 2: member of the bar in this jurisdiction, high profile lawyer,

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Speaker 2: Raymond Judice. Any relation to the housewife.

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Speaker 4: You know, Nancy? I get that all the time. Actually,

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Speaker 4: that's said Joe Judice is from Italy and he's been

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Speaker 4: sent back as he's been deported.

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Speaker 2: That's a whole other crime stories. Ray, Yeah, that's a

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Speaker 2: whole other crime stories.

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Speaker 4: There may be some distant relationship.

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Speaker 2: So Raymond Judice, thank you for being with us. A

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Speaker 2: high profile criminal defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction.

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Speaker 2: He can find him at rayglaw dot com. Ray thank

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Speaker 2: you for being with us. Explain to me where this

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Speaker 2: is a country road in Spaulding County. Let's just start

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Speaker 2: right there. I know you practiced mostly in metropolitan Atlanta,

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Speaker 2: but the outlying counties include Spalding County. Have you practiced there?

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Speaker 4: I have, And this is about fifty minutes south of

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Speaker 4: Atlanta Hartsfield. They are poured downtown to Atlanta maybe an hour.

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Speaker 4: But what you find is when you as you head

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Speaker 4: towards Macon on A eighty five south, once you get

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Speaker 4: off the exit ramp where the McDonald's and the QT

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Speaker 4: and a few other things are, and you maybe get three,

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Speaker 4: four or five miles off the highway, you are in

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Speaker 4: the country. This is actually one of the premier deer

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Speaker 4: hunting areas and many many people actually have pine tree

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Speaker 4: farms that they maintain to lease to hunters. So it

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Speaker 4: is rural. It's not that far from Atlanta, but it's

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Speaker 4: in the country.

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Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about the scene because that means so

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Speaker 2: much when you're investigating a crime.

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Speaker 5: Here.

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Speaker 2: We have a lot of people are used to street lights.

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Speaker 2: They're used to lights being around them from businesses and

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Speaker 2: high rise apartments, but when you are out on a

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Speaker 2: country road, it is pitch black. And I was just

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Speaker 2: thinking about that recently because as you all know, we

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Speaker 2: hear crime stories. Went to the crime scene in the

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Speaker 2: Idaho for Student slagh case where Brian Coburger is now

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Speaker 2: charged with quadruple murder, and we traced his route, his

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Speaker 2: very circuitous long route from the crime scene the night

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Speaker 2: of the murders all the way back to his apartment

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Speaker 2: at student housing at Washington State University. It should have

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Speaker 2: been about a nine minute drive, I clocked at myself.

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Speaker 2: Instead he drove over an hour. And that drive I

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Speaker 2: drove it at night. It was pitch black. When an

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Speaker 2: eighteen wheeler would come toward me, I literally have to

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Speaker 2: pull over to the side of the road because I

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Speaker 2: could not see what was happening. That's the same way

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Speaker 2: it is in this location. We have been there, black

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Speaker 2: at night. So how do they link this dead body

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Speaker 2: in the middle of the road to a prank and egging.

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Speaker 2: That's one of the things I want to know. Another thing,

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Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crown's joining me. Chief medical Examiner out of

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Speaker 2: Terran County, that's Fort Worth. He is electorate at University

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Speaker 2: of Texas Austin at Texas Christian University Medical School. Doctor Crowns,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. How do you go

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Speaker 2: about identifying a dead body in the middle of the road,

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Speaker 2: when you've got no eyewitness to say that's my husband,

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Speaker 2: that's my brother, that's my son, that's my next door neighbor.

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Speaker 2: You got nothing, no ID, nothing on them. What do

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Speaker 2: you do as the medical examiner when you're faced with that?

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Speaker 6: So there's a number of things you can do. At

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Speaker 6: first is you do an attempt to do a visual

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Speaker 6: ID if you can find their driver's license and try

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Speaker 6: and match that up. But often people don't have that

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Speaker 6: on them. So the next thing you do is fingerprints,

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Speaker 6: because everybody has fingerprints. Of course.

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Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, let me get that in my head.

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Speaker 2: Fingerprinting a dead body, that's what you're saying, correct, And

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Speaker 2: do you do it old school with the ink, the

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Speaker 2: black ink, or is there another way to do it,

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Speaker 2: for instance, digitally.

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Speaker 6: No, you manipulate the hands and then you put the

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Speaker 6: black ink on them and do fingerprints that way, and

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Speaker 6: then that is submitted if they have a record. In Texas,

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Speaker 6: everybody gets fingerprinted when you get a driver's license, so

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Speaker 6: they have a thumbprint or an index fingerprint on file

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Speaker 6: and we can do a comparison that way. If fingerprints failed,

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Speaker 6: then you move on to dental records, hospital record that

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Speaker 6: they've had any X rays.

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Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, you're getting ahead of me. You're going

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Speaker 2: to warp speed for there. Hold on, doctor Crown's when

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Speaker 2: you say dental records, to have a dental record comparison

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Speaker 2: to identify someone, Let's just say Sydney here working the sound.

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Speaker 2: She's got perfect teeth. I know she has orthodontia work.

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Speaker 2: She's probably had her wisdom teeth out. She may have

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Speaker 2: a cavity back in there somewhere. But only one person

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Speaker 2: has not only the imprint of her teeth, but her

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Speaker 2: dental work, her exact dental work, and that's her. So

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Speaker 2: to make a dental comparison, doctor, you have to have

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Speaker 2: something to compare it too. So if you don't know

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Speaker 2: the name of this person, how do you compare their

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Speaker 2: dental records?

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Speaker 6: Well, that is the problem is if you don't know

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Speaker 6: the name of an individual and you have no idea

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Speaker 6: who they are, the dental records, hospital records, anything of

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Speaker 6: that nature is using a presumptive ID. And if you

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Speaker 6: don't have that, all you can do is put out

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Speaker 6: a missing person's report with a picture of the photograph

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Speaker 6: and put it up on say your local web page

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Speaker 6: for your law enforcement area and hope that someone is

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Speaker 6: looking for that individual and an idea.

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Speaker 2: Well, have you ever fingerprinted a dead body?

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Speaker 7: Yes?

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Speaker 2: I have, And how that leave you feeling? I'm just curious.

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Speaker 2: I've never you know, I've had a lot of dead

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Speaker 2: bodies I had to work with as a prosecutor, but

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Speaker 2: I've never had to fingerprint a dead body.

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Speaker 6: It made me feel no different than I feel on

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Speaker 6: any other day. So it's just all part of the workload.

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Speaker 8: You know.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you're a medical examiner, not me. I really am,

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Speaker 2: because I don't want a fingerprint a dead body. It

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Speaker 2: was hard enough for me to go to crime says,

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Speaker 2: homicide sayings autopsies much less have to fingerprint the dead body.

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Speaker 4: Here.

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Speaker 2: You've got this person lying there, obviously murdered, and nobody

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Speaker 2: even knows who they are. The dichotomy of that is

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Speaker 2: a lot to take in joining me now. Cheryl McCollum

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Speaker 2: a Cold Case Investigative Research Institute founder. You can find

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Speaker 2: her at Coldcasecrimes dot org and she is the star

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Speaker 2: of Hitting You series Zone seven. Cherylmccollum, thank you for

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Speaker 2: being with us. Cheryl, have you ever had a dead

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Speaker 2: body that you have to identify and nobody can identify it.

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Speaker 2: What I'm getting, how do we even know that this

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Speaker 2: guy's dead as a result of an egging if we

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Speaker 2: don't even know who he is? I mean, Sharon McCollum,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. If you remember, one of the last

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Speaker 2: murders I tried wasn't unidentified, Jane Doe. And that makes

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Speaker 2: it a lot harder to solve a case when you

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Speaker 2: don't know the identity of the victim explained.

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Speaker 5: When you don't know who the victim is, your suspect

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Speaker 5: pool is literally everybody. You don't know who this person

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Speaker 5: has been in contact with, who they're related to, who

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Speaker 5: they upset, whether or not they are connected to some

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Speaker 5: nefarious people. What we do have is a very unusual location,

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Speaker 5: so that by itself, just the location is going to

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Speaker 5: reduce your suspect poole. You've got a very rule, very dark,

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Speaker 5: very small area. Even though it is sort of metro Atlanta,

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Speaker 5: this is way out so you're not going to have

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Speaker 5: a lot of traffic there. You're not going to have

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Speaker 5: a ton of people. This is not on fourteenth Street,

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Speaker 5: this is in Griffin. So again, for me, your suspect

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Speaker 5: pool is going to reduce before you could even identify

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Speaker 5: the victim, you already know. Probably you're dealing with somebody

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Speaker 5: that knows the perpetry.

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Speaker 2: Guys, take a listen to our friends at WSB.

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Speaker 9: Deputy say, three teenagers went to egg a man's house

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Speaker 9: and then killed him. That happened on Dobbin's Mill Road

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Speaker 9: in Spaulding County. Deputy say, the homeowner confronted the three

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Speaker 9: and one of them shot him. They left his body

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Speaker 9: in the road.

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Speaker 2: And ran Okay, So how do they know that if

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Speaker 2: they still haven't ide'd the victim? At some point they

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Speaker 2: get that ID, they figure out what happened. Take a

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Speaker 2: list our friends that crime online.

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Speaker 3: Detectives arrived on the scene and find Jonathan Gilbert dead

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Speaker 3: from a gunshot wound in the street. Investigators talked to

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Speaker 3: witnesses and are able to identify a car as well

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Speaker 3: as the cell phone number of a possible suspect. Investigators

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Speaker 3: are able to track one of the suspect's cell phone

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Speaker 3: numbers to an address in neighboring Henry County. Officers there

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Speaker 3: find the car at the address and get a search

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Speaker 3: warrant for the house in the car. A gun is

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Speaker 3: found in the car believed to have been used in

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Speaker 3: Gilbert's death.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that is a seismic jump from not being able

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Speaker 2: to identify the body.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Joining us now is crime online dot Com investigative reporter

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Speaker 2: Alexis Terzchuk. Alexis that sound is so neat and simple

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Speaker 2: and tied up with a bow and put under the

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Speaker 2: Christmas tree when you hear Dave Mack from Crime online

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Speaker 2: dot Com describing it, But actually the cops went through

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Speaker 2: quite a few hoops before they could figure out what happened.

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Speaker 2: And explain to me what the cops do when they

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Speaker 2: get out there and they find this dead body.

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Speaker 7: So they arrived on the scene, it is nighttime, dead

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Speaker 7: body in the middle of the road, and as the

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Speaker 7: other guest has said, it's dark, it's rural, it's not

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Speaker 7: very well lit. They search him, his body, they look

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Speaker 7: in his pockets and see if there's anything that can

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Speaker 7: identify him. They find nothing on him. So what they

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Speaker 7: actually did The police explained that they did a fingerprint scan. Now,

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Speaker 7: perhaps they had something in one of the police officers

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Speaker 7: cars that could do this and this identified him. Then

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Speaker 7: they started knocking, going around to houses around the area

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Speaker 7: and they actually located a witness. Now they have not

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Speaker 7: said what if this witness heard the gunshots from outside,

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Speaker 7: from inside their house or was looking out the window.

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Speaker 7: But the witness explained, gave them some tips, gave them

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Speaker 7: some clues as to who he was and where he

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Speaker 7: was standing.

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Speaker 2: Now, this is all that we're getting out of the

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Speaker 2: police report. According to Spaulding County Sheriff Deale Dicks, investigators

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Speaker 2: managed to locate a witness, as you're saying, going door

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Speaker 2: to door knocking, who provided them enough evidence to create

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Speaker 2: a link between the victim and the suspects. Using that info,

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Speaker 2: investigators began their search and they got a cell phone

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Speaker 2: number tied to one of these people, tracking that cell

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Speaker 2: phone number to Henry County, Okay. So Alexis described what

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Speaker 2: are they talking about?

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Speaker 7: So most likely what they did is they found his

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Speaker 7: cell phone. They managed to get it open, whether it

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Speaker 7: wasn't locked or they could use his fingerprint to open it,

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Speaker 7: they got it open it and there was a number.

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Speaker 7: So this gave them a clue whether it was a

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Speaker 7: text message or a phone call. They realized that this

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Speaker 7: person was very connected. Perhaps the text message that we're

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Speaker 7: coming to your house right now, or come on out. Haha,

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Speaker 7: we'd egged your how and they traced this number. They

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Speaker 7: went to their database, they traced the numb They probably

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Speaker 7: had to get a warrant for that, and then they

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Speaker 7: went to the home of where it was.

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Speaker 2: Hey, I found out something. Alexis were just learning this

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Speaker 2: the fingerprint idea that we've been talking about.

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Speaker 7: Huh.

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Speaker 2: The guy, the victim does not have a criminal history,

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Speaker 2: but what he does have is a driver's license problem.

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Speaker 2: The victim in this case, Jonathan Gilbert, had a license problem.

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Speaker 2: He had a suspended license, and he, as you mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 2: was there in that area dealing with the driver's license issue.

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Speaker 2: He was there from Texas and that is why they

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Speaker 2: had his fingerprint. Raged you to say, in that jurisdiction

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Speaker 2: do you have to give your fingerprint to get a

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Speaker 2: driver's license?

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Speaker 10: You do not.

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Speaker 4: But it is possible in a not here to dispudge

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Speaker 4: this young man's character. If he was there for a

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Speaker 4: suspended driver's license problem, he may have been charged with

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Speaker 4: driving with a suspended license by law enforcement, which can

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Speaker 4: be either just done by citation. But some jurisdictions do

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Speaker 4: fingerprint and book people in on that. So again I

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Speaker 4: don't know that to be the case. But if you're

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Speaker 4: asking me how it's possible that his fingerprints were on

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Speaker 4: record in Spaulding County, Georgia, it may have been that

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Speaker 4: event that he had been charged, he came back here

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Speaker 4: to Georgia to deal with the case or the citation,

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Speaker 4: and they linked the fingerprints together.

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Speaker 2: You know, a lot of people wouldn't even bother to

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Speaker 2: come back. If you got a driver's license problem in

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Speaker 2: Georgia you live in Texas. A lot of people just say,

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Speaker 2: screw it, I'm not going back. But the reality that's

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Speaker 2: a technical legal term. I'm sure you've never used Reggio

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Speaker 2: to check it. But if you have a driver's license

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Speaker 2: problem in Georgia, would that affect your driver's license, your

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Speaker 2: ability to drive in Texas or anywhere else?

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Speaker 4: Yes? Yes, generally nowadays after nine to eleven, tragically, But

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Speaker 4: all of everybody's computer talks to everybody's computer nowadays, Nancy,

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Speaker 4: you and I remember back in even the eighties and nineties,

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Speaker 4: a guy could have fifteen different tractor trailer drivers had

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Speaker 4: fifteen licenses in fifteen states. Not anymore so if he

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Speaker 4: had moved to Texas or was a Texas residence. But

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Speaker 4: had a driver's license issue in Georgia. He probably would

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Speaker 4: have had to clear that up. Come here, clear it

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Speaker 4: up and then either get a Texas license or reinstate

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Speaker 4: his Texas license.

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Speaker 2: The guy's trying to do the right thing. Come get

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Speaker 2: his driver's license problem right cleared up. It's up dead

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Speaker 2: in the middle of a dirt road out on a

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Speaker 2: dark night in Griffin. You know, I'm just thinking this

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Speaker 2: whole thing through. Hey, Alexis Tereshchuk. Before I was asking

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Speaker 2: Ray about the driver's license issue, what were you telling

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Speaker 2: me about their investigation? They get a cell phone. Now,

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Speaker 2: remember the guy didn't have anything on him. He didn't

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Speaker 2: have a cell phone on him. But somehow they locate

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Speaker 2: a witness. If that witness n where the cell phone was, whatever,

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Speaker 2: the witness connected him with two other people. Okay, take

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Speaker 2: it from there, Alexis.

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Speaker 7: Or the witness could have simply been a neighbor and

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Speaker 7: who said, well, there are these houses here. That's not him,

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Speaker 7: we don't know him, he doesn't live here, but that

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Speaker 7: is the house that he would have come from. Because

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Speaker 7: I believe he was actually staying with a friend, it

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Speaker 7: was not his house. And so because he was clearing

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Speaker 7: up his core problem. So the witness could have been

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Speaker 7: another neighbor, but said, let's rule out he doesn't live

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Speaker 7: in my house. I know he doesn't live next door

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Speaker 7: in the Smith's house he lived, he must have come

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Speaker 7: from that house. So they found a phone which probably

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Speaker 7: was his cell phone. They connected them with that.

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Speaker 2: So then they find the cell number. They get a

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Speaker 2: cell number connected to one of the alleged perps. The eggers,

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Speaker 2: let me say, and how do they figure out Cheryl McCollum, guy,

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Speaker 2: cherylmccollums US from Cold Case Research Institute. How do they

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Speaker 2: then take that number and figure out it's from Henry County.

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Speaker 5: Well, they tracked it to Henry County. So now they

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Speaker 5: are actively following this cell number. So if they got

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Speaker 5: the victim cell and they're connected, then they're just tracking

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Speaker 5: them maybe three sixty or half or they're doing it.

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Speaker 5: But it shows a home in Henry County. When they

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Speaker 5: get to that home, they send Henry County Police. They

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Speaker 5: arrived there, they see the suspect vehicle.

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Speaker 2: But Ray, here's another thing that's so irritating. What is

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Speaker 2: wrong with the phone company. You can't get any information

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Speaker 2: out of them. It's like pulling a tooth. I would

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Speaker 2: go round and round with them as a prosecutor, because

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Speaker 2: if you've got a number, if they would just cooperate,

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Speaker 2: they could give you the address where that number is registered.

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Speaker 2: But oh, hubln, they're not going to help you.

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Speaker 4: Oh no, not just the phone services, but also you

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Speaker 4: have to get a search warrant. Law enforcement needs to

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Speaker 4: get a search warrant to get into my cell phone

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Speaker 4: unless I give them permission. We've got cases where what

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Speaker 4: officers will do is to hold the phone up to

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Speaker 4: somebody's face for the facial recognition to unlock it. Well,

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Speaker 4: that's an illegal search. So between the phone companies, the

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Speaker 4: service providers, and the phone manufacturers, and of course there's

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Speaker 4: only a handful of those, they've made it so hard

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Speaker 4: for law enforcement to do what you think would be

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Speaker 4: a very simple tracking who owns this cell phone number?

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Speaker 4: Where does it tracked back to very difficult? You're absolutely right.

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Speaker 2: I mean they give you h elel like, where are

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Speaker 2: the bad guys? We're trying to solve a murder. So

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Speaker 2: I'm hearing Alexis describe how local and Spaulding County, Griffin, Georgia,

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Speaker 2: then reach Henry County and everybody converges at a location. Guys,

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Speaker 2: take a listen to our friends a crime online.

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Speaker 3: Faulding County Sheriff Daryl Dick says Sidney Mond, Jeremy Munson,

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Speaker 3: and Mackenzie Davenport went to the home of Jonathan Gilbert

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Speaker 3: to egg it. As the tree was getting ready to leave,

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Speaker 3: Jonathan Gilbert confronted them. The suspects ran back to the car,

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Speaker 3: and as Gilbert approached them, Sidney Man, a backseat passenger

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Speaker 3: in the car, produced a firearm and shot him multiple times.

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Speaker 3: The suspects then drove away, leaving Gilbert dead in the street.

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Speaker 3: The only motive Sheriff Dicks has offered thus far is

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Speaker 3: the vandalism of the house Gilbert was staying in appeared

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Speaker 3: to be the result of an ongoing lover's quarrel.

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Speaker 2: It was an egging. For those of you that have

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Speaker 2: never done it or don't know about it. You get

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Speaker 2: a dozen eggs and you go throw it at your

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Speaker 2: target's home, their car, anything that belongs to them, their driveway, them.

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Speaker 2: It's an egging. It washes off in the shower, it

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Speaker 2: washes off at the car wash. Why did this have

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Speaker 2: to result in a death? Joining me is doctor Angela Arnold,

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Speaker 2: uh renounced psychiatrist in the Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find

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Speaker 2: her at Angela Arnold MD dot com. Angie, how does

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Speaker 2: it go from an egging to a guy dad in

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Speaker 2: the middle of the road?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 10: I mean Nancy at the beginning of the show when

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Speaker 10: you asked if any of us had egged go, you.

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Speaker 2: Know you've egged something. I don't know how, and I

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Speaker 2: don't know when, but I know you have maybe t peede.

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Speaker 10: But Nancy who goes out with a dozen eggs to

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Speaker 10: egg someone's house, but then their intent changes to murder

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Speaker 10: that person. Those are two completely different mindsets as far

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Speaker 10: as I'm concerned. How does it? How does escalate that

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Speaker 10: far to Oh, I'm going to take a gun out

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Speaker 10: and shoot this guy and it's dark outside, and you know,

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Speaker 10: I have to wonder do they did they really know

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Speaker 10: who they were shooting?

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Speaker 7: How dark was it?

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Speaker 10: But they also went with a gun. But it doesn't

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Speaker 10: it doesn't equate to me. It doesn't equate how you

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Speaker 10: would do a childish act, which is to go and

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Speaker 10: egg someone's house. That's a very immature act. Grown ups

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Speaker 10: don't egg people's houses.

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Speaker 2: Oh wait, what they don't Okay, sorry.

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Speaker 10: I don't think so, Nancy, go ahead. I think grown

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Speaker 10: ups go around egging people's houses.

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Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, Ray, Judica, you've handled all sorts of cases,

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Speaker 2: from rape and murder to cases just like this. Has

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Speaker 2: someone over eighteen ever egged anything?

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Speaker 4: I'm always surprised at how juvenile grown people will behave

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Speaker 4: in act. Whether it's so, then yes, yes, the answer

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Speaker 4: would be yes, especially in romantic situations.

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Speaker 2: Who was dating who? Here? I don't get that anybody

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Speaker 2: on the panel. Who's dating who? Why are they calling

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Speaker 2: this a love spat Alexis?

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Speaker 7: Do you know they have not said exactly who was

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Speaker 7: dating Who's so we don't know if it was one

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Speaker 7: of the two girls or the boy. But the police

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Speaker 7: are calling it a lover's quarrel.

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Speaker 2: So you've got two girls and a boy. You've got

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Speaker 2: Sydney Mahon, Mackenzie Davenport, both girls and one boy, Jeremy Munson.

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Speaker 2: But guys, this is not by far the first time

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Speaker 2: a simple egging or a prank or a tpee toilet

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Speaker 2: paper in somebody's house has ended up in a dead body,

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Speaker 2: or at least one dead body. Take a listen to

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Speaker 2: our cut twelve Our forensic ka r K.

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Speaker 8: Witness is on Skylark Road say they heard four gunshots

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Speaker 8: this morning around twelve fifty three and a car speeding away.

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Speaker 8: Neighbors say they saw Willie Noble walking back toward his home.

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Speaker 8: According to Ellrock Police Department, the kids had thrown leaves, eggs,

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Speaker 8: and mayonnaise on Noble's car, and they say when he

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Speaker 8: came outside, he fired at their car as they drove away.

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Speaker 11: When those kids left to go out and do this,

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Speaker 11: they did by no means that any one of them

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Speaker 11: think that this was going to be a horrible event.

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Speaker 11: They thought that they would although be a mischievous thing.

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Speaker 11: They didn't think they would end up being a deadly

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Speaker 11: a deadly prankt.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know who was killed in that case? Eighteen

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Speaker 2: girl Adrian Broadway right over egging and throwing leaves on

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Speaker 2: some guy's house. She's dead. And guess what that's not

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Speaker 2: all guys. Take a Listen to our cut eleven speaking

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Speaker 2: of doctor Angie Arnold obviously has inside information on a

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Speaker 2: TP toilet papering somebody's home. Take a list our cut

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Speaker 2: eleven from Crime Online.

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Speaker 3: Irodeld County Sheriff deputies respond to a call just after

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Speaker 3: midnight in reference to shots fired at a vehicle. Deputies

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Speaker 3: arrive un scene and find three juveniles who say they

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Speaker 3: were pulling a prank on a friend by toilet paper

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Speaker 3: in the friend's house. William Boggas lives next door. He

434
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 3: saw them putting toilet paper on the yard in front

435
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 3: of the kids. They get in their vehicle to leave.

436
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 3: Bogus fires three shots at their car, then gets in

437
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 3: his car and follows the juveniles for some distance and

438
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 3: drives his vehicle into the rear of the teen's car,

439
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 3: causing them to be involved in a vehicle collision. Bogas

440
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 3: is now charged with discharging a firearm in an occupied

441
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 3: property and three counts assault with a deadly weapon.

442
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 2: And more from Crime Online. Listen.

443
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 3: Authority say local firefighter James McCrae was chasing a group

444
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 3: of high school students that were rolling a house. Officials

445
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 3: said the teens were from Flowmington High School, which is

446
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 3: celebrating homecoming all week. Students have been buying up all

447
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 3: the local toilet paper and tossing it on area homes.

448
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 3: It happens every year. Some believe McCrae thought the teens

449
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 3: were trying to break into a house. He called nine

450
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 3: one one as he gave chase, trying to get a

451
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 3: tag number for deputies. Alabama State Troopers said McCrae lost

452
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 3: control of his two thousand and three Chevy pickup truck

453
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 3: at about seven fifty pm in a curve on Stanley Road.

454
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 3: He was not wearing a seatbelt. He was ejected from

455
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,239
Speaker 3: his truck as it rolled over. He was pronounced dead

456
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 3: at the scene.

457
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 2: Can I tell you how many dozens and dozens of

458
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 2: eggings and toilet paperings I've got that end in a death? Now,

459
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 2: in a couple of these cases, teens or the pursuer

460
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 2: are driving recklessly and have a crash and die. But

461
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 2: there are others that end up actually shooting each other

462
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 2: over an egging or a TP Guys, take a listen,

463
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 2: and now here comes a principal of a local school involved.

464
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 2: Take a look to our cut ten out of the

465
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 2: Chattanooga Times Free Press.

466
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,479
Speaker 12: An area teenager was shot while he was rolling his

467
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 12: principal's yard with toilet paper. Authorready say Dale Bryant Ferris

468
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 12: fired a shotgun at several teens in Estel Springs, striking

469
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 12: a fifteen year old boy multiple times. The problem is

470
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 12: they weren't on his property. The kids were pranking Ferris's neighbor,

471
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 12: Hunland School Principal Ken Bishop. The teenager is recovering from

472
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 12: his wounds and Ferris faces charges of aggravated assault and

473
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 12: reckless endangerment.

474
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 2: You think the adults involved would not give chase or

475
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 2: certainly would pull a gun while giving chase. Have you

476
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:46,719
Speaker 2: ever heard of the game Ding Dong Ditch, Ding Dong Ditch?

477
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 2: Well you have now take a listen to Ksey al

478
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 2: cut eight.

479
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 13: The CHP says that Chandra intentionally crashed into a prius

480
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 13: carrying the six boys Sunday night on Tamescal Canyon Road.

481
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 13: Victim's families confirm that the teens were playing a prank

482
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 13: ding Dong ditch and rang the suspects doorbell a person

483
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 13: they did not know an a rug. Chandra is accused

484
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,679
Speaker 13: of hitting the priests with his infinity as the boys

485
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 13: left the neighborhood. Drake Ruiz, Daniel Hawkins, and Jacob Evescu died.

486
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 2: Three boys dead from running up, ringing a doorbell and

487
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 2: running away. They're dead. The adult pursuer crashed them with

488
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 2: this prius and they're all dead. The pursuer lived. Okay,

489
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 2: Doctor Angela Arnold, I can sort this out legally myself.

490
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: That's not self defense. That's revenge. Revenge is not a

491
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 2: defense under the law. And correct me if I'm wrong.

492
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 2: Ra I'm sure he'd argue something differently if we were

493
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 2: butting heads and court. But when you are angry, let's

494
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 2: just say you're angry over and egging and you see

495
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 2: the running away. Some would argue that reduces your charge

496
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 2: to voluntary manslaughter or not murder because you're in the

497
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 2: heat of passion you're angry. But I would argue that

498
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 2: during the pursuit you should have a cooling off period

499
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,479
Speaker 2: so it's no longer in the heat of passion. It

500
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 2: is cold blooded revenge, and revenge is not a defense

501
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 2: under the law. Agree or disagree.

502
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 4: Ray you to Jay Nancy. In this setting, I will

503
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 4: agree with you and think about what has to happen.

504
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 4: Someone has to get angry, they have to go get

505
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 4: their gun. They may have to load the gun. They

506
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 4: then have to leave the residents and start to pursue

507
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 4: carrying the loaded weapons. I mean you, as a great prosecutor,

508
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 4: you could defeat that self defense claim with simple questions

509
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 4: that I just threw out, you know, in the morning.

510
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 2: You know, question of off the topic of why did

511
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 2: you have to leave being a prosecutor because just the

512
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 2: way that you said that made so much sense. You

513
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 2: had to go to the dark side? Didn't you make

514
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 2: all that money?

515
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 6: I did it for the money?

516
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 2: Okay? You know, I'm thinking about this whole thing.

517
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 5: Can I jump in here, Nancy?

518
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 2: Oh? Could I stop? You go ahead, Cheryl McCollum.

519
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 5: I think what's really important to me here is that

520
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 5: a loaded gun was taken to an egging and fired

521
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 5: from the back seat multiple times at a victim that

522
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 5: was unarmed. So my question is going to be did

523
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 5: they egg the house to draw him out? And was

524
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 5: this always a murder? Because if you look at their

525
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 5: mud shots, they ain't crying, they don't look scared.

526
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 2: Let's take a look at their mud shots. And these

527
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 2: are teens the teams. Yes, she Sidney Maun is said

528
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 2: to have fired the fatal shot from the back seat,

529
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 2: the passenger back seat that killed this twenty two year

530
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 2: old guy, Jonathan Gilbert. Yeah, she looks kind of like

531
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: po that she got caught. Now I'm looking at the

532
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 2: other one. Mackenzie Davenport. Yeah, she looks irritated. The boy involved,

533
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 2: Jeremy Munson. Yeah, none of them are crying. None of

534
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,959
Speaker 2: them are crying. That's a really good observation and another

535
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 2: point of law. They're all three going to be charged

536
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 2: with murder, not just Sidney maund who pulled the trigger.

537
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grease.

538
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 2: Back to you, rage jud Chay. Why are all three

539
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 2: going to be charged with the murder when only one

540
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 2: pull the trigger?

541
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 3: Nancy?

542
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 4: Almost all states have a felony murder statue. So let's

543
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 4: say the three of us are going to go rob

544
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 4: the bank.

545
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 2: Write a minute, don't even put me in that. It

546
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 2: can be you and shriff are.

547
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 4: Well, you've got a wheelman, you've got a someone holding

548
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 4: the door, and you've got someone inside with the gun.

549
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 4: The gun goes off, the taeller is killed. All three

550
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 4: will be charged with murder. Now what usually happens, The

551
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 4: non gun people roll over on the gunman. It was

552
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 4: all his fault, it was his plan. I didn't know

553
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 4: where we were going, he said. He was just running

554
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 4: in the bank to cash a check, and I was

555
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 4: keeping the car warm. So that's the story, and I

556
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 4: guarantee you you will see one of these three roll

557
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 4: on the gun woman right out out.

558
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 2: You know what always bothered me many many times. For instance,

559
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 2: I have t tb r theft byer saving stolen vehicle,

560
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 2: and that's because you charge staff by re saving when

561
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 2: you don't have an eyewitness or confession as somebody saying

562
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 2: I actually took it. That would be theft by taking,

563
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 2: same sentence theft by receiving, theft by taking. And there'd

564
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 2: be usually five guys out joy riding in a car

565
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 2: that all have to be charged with felony theft by receiving,

566
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 2: even though I would know one person was probably the ringleader,

567
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 2: and it always worked the way you're saying, somebody would

568
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 2: rite out the other, you know, doctor Angela Arnold. I'm

569
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 2: imagining this night of them riding over there, not intending

570
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 2: to shoot, probably thinking it was kind of funny to

571
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 2: egg this guy, ending up with somebody pulling a gun,

572
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 2: according to police, teen girl Sidney Maun and shooting Gilbert

573
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 2: dead unarmed.

574
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 10: Maybe they were intending to shoot, like Cheryl said, I mean,

575
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:52,719
Speaker 10: that's a whole different kind of twist on those.

576
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 2: But don't you think that leaves a lot to chance

577
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 2: if we egg his house or his car, we think

578
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 2: he might chase us and then we can shoot him.

579
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 10: Certainly do But but why did they bring a gun

580
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 10: with them?

581
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 2: Exactly? That would be my question. Why bring a gun? Hey,

582
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 2: when I go to Kroger, I don't take a gun

583
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 2: with me. No, when I go to the library with

584
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 2: the twins, I don't take a gun. Why Because it

585
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 2: don't intend on pulling it, So guys pursue it to

586
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 2: the legal line of reasoning we are describing. Take a

587
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 2: listen to our cut three our friends at NewsNation.

588
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 14: Three Georgia teens are facing murder charges tonight after what

589
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 14: police says started as a lover's quarrel and an egging

590
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 14: prank that ended with shots fired and a victim debt. Now,

591
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 14: police say the three teens drove to the victim's house

592
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 14: and started throwing eggs. When a twenty two year old

593
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 14: man came out to confront the three, police say one

594
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 14: of them grabbed a gun from their car and shot

595
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 14: him before driving away. Now all three are in custody

596
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 14: and all three are facing murder charges, even though only

597
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 14: one of them pulled the trigger.

598
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 2: To Alexis Tschak, Climeoline dot Com investigative reporter, what more

599
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 2: do we know about that? Not, because I believe a

600
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 2: jury is going to turn on the question why did

601
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 2: they have a gun and why did this girl, Sydney

602
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 2: mong feel threatened or what made her pick up the gun,

603
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 2: aim it and pull the trigger. Why did they take

604
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 2: the gun and why did she pull the trigger? What

605
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: do we know?

606
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 7: Well, we know that there was a connection and the

607
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 7: police have said there was a lover's quarrel. So someone

608
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 7: was involved with the victim and there was some they

609
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 7: were fighting, they had perhaps been dating and they were

610
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 7: fighting now and there was he was racing at the

611
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 7: car he was and he had come out. He stopped.

612
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 7: They ran the guy. They saw him come out. They

613
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 7: ran and got in the car. But he didn't stop

614
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 7: because he say, oh, they get in the car. There's

615
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,439
Speaker 7: nothing I can do. They're just going to drive away.

616
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 7: He kept running towards the car and so that is

617
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 7: when apparent Sydney allegedly pulled the gun out and shot

618
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 7: him from the backseat of the car. So she wasn't

619
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 7: the driver. She was hanging out in the back. The

620
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 7: thing is that it's not just the police who said

621
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 7: it's a lover's girl. There are other people and they

622
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 7: found a direct link between the two of them. It's

623
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 7: not they can't say, oh, we just egged a random house.

624
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 7: There was definitely a reason that they targeted him. And

625
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 7: bringing the gun adds a whole other level. If you

626
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 7: would go toilet paper someone's house in high school, not

627
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 7: saying I know anybody that did that, but I might have. Well,

628
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 7: we didn't have a gun, and we certainly wouldn't have

629
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 7: brought a gun because we wanted to just be super quiet.

630
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: Well, I've got another fact that's really going to hurt

631
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 2: the three defendants, and I would use it, would totally

632
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 2: use it in court. We are now learning that the

633
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 2: three teens were driving away when Sydney Man allegedly pulled

634
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 2: the gun and fired back at Jonathan Gilbert just twenty two.

635
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 7: And multiple times, not just one shot, oh more.

636
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 2: Than one shot. I didn't know that part. That's a

637
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 2: big deal because that says she was no longer in fear.

638
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 2: What about that, doctor, Angie Arnold, she was no longer

639
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 2: a fear if they were driving away and he was

640
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 2: standing out there. Now, according to the victim's mother, she

641
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 2: said he ran out to protect the home of his

642
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 2: friend from getting egged.

643
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 10: That's such a shaky dessense who shoots somebody as they're

644
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 10: driving away from egging their house. What kind of fear

645
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 10: was she in at that point? What kind of danger

646
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 10: with that girl in that she had to turn and

647
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 10: shoot this person. She was not in any danger. She

648
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 10: was in a car, they were driving away. It's absolutely ridiculous,

649
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 10: but it shows what was in her heart the whole time,

650
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 10: doesn't it.

651
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 5: Hey, let me jump in Nancy, even before she got

652
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 5: safely into the back seat and was driving away. It

653
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 5: was three against one. She wasn't afraid from jump. One

654
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 5: man unarmed is not going to get the bank of

655
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 5: those three anyway.

656
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 2: Plus they were in a car, Plus they had a gun.

657
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 2: You're right now, Are they going to try and claim

658
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 2: they were afraid or it was all just a joke

659
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 2: that's been tried before. Take a listen to hour cut

660
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 2: fourteen Our Friends at ABC thirteen.

661
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 15: Seventeen year old Dominique McCoy was visiting Reginald Small's home

662
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 15: yesterday morning on stuben Or Hill Drive in northwest Harris County.

663
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,760
Speaker 15: According to deputies, the two were said to be friends.

664
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 15: McCoy allegedly hid in the bathroom in the home. According

665
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,959
Speaker 15: to a judge today and jumped out to scare his friend,

666
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 15: but the other seventeen year old reacted and shot McCoy,

667
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 15: who died. Small's was taken into custody. The same day

668
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 15: as the shooting. Another teen was also arrested, accused of

669
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 15: trying to hide the gun. He's already posted his bond. Meanwhile,

670
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 15: Small's remains behind bars.

671
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 2: I don't think that claiming, oh, it was a joke

672
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 2: is going to be a defense. I don't think that's

673
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 2: going to work here. To doctor Kendall Crown's, chief medical

674
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 2: examiner in Fort Worth, Doctor Crown's, it's amazing that he's

675
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 2: only been shot once since apparently Sydney Maun fired a

676
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 2: spray of bullets.

677
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 6: Well, she has been a moving vehicle and shooting, probably

678
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,959
Speaker 6: hanging out the back window, because I assume she didn't

679
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 6: blow out the back window of her car. So if

680
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 6: she is shooting a spray of bullets at out of

681
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 6: a moving car at a moving target, unless she has

682
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 6: military training or police training, I doubt she would hit

683
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 6: the individual that many times. Now, if he was shot

684
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,240
Speaker 6: multiple times, I would assume that she was probably outside

685
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 6: of the car and shot him up from the street level.

686
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 6: Probably at the closer range, because I'm sure she's not

687
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 6: probably an accurate shot.

688
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,240
Speaker 2: You know what's interesting that you just said, Well, everything

689
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 2: that you just said, doctor Kendall Crown's is interesting, as

690
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:57,919
Speaker 2: it always is. But hanging out the window, that's significant,

691
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 2: Raymond Judicay. That another level of intent. She's not just

692
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 2: cowering in the back seat. She goes to the effort

693
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 2: to hang out the window. Because doctor Kindle Crowns is right,

694
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 2: the defendant's car windows were not shattered. She had to

695
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 2: hang out the window and turn back, contort herself out

696
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 2: the window to shoot this guy dead.

697
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, as creative as many good criminal defense lawyers can be,

698
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 4: trying to fashion a self defense claim for Sydney the

699
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 4: shooter is going to be extremely difficult for all the

700
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 4: reasons that all of your panel have pointed out. I

701
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,959
Speaker 4: wanted to point out one quick thing. She has also

702
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 4: been charged in addition to the homicide with family violence,

703
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 4: meaning there was a relationship alleged between she and the victim.

704
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 4: That means there's a you don't have to be a

705
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 4: family member to be charged under the family violence doctor, boyfriend, girlfriend,

706
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 4: former lovers that can all fall under that umbrella. In Georgia.

707
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 4: That means it's going to be a history, in my

708
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 4: opinion of angry cell phone messages, text messages, there's a

709
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,240
Speaker 4: track that led up to this faithful, fatal event.

710
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,760
Speaker 2: So it may not have been all about the egging.

711
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 2: Is that what you're saying.

712
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 4: I think the egging is a manifestation of a heated

713
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 4: a heated relationship that culminated in a murder. Yes, that's

714
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 4: what I would if I was prosecutor. That's how I

715
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 4: would build this up. As you know, Nancy as crescendo

716
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 4: that the shooting was not maybe planned, but the anger

717
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 4: and the wanting to harm this gentleman in some way

718
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 4: was in her mind.

719
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 2: And when you say planned, Raymond Gudja, you are using

720
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 2: the layperson definition of planned, such as a long thought

721
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 2: out plan like poisoning someone over a period of months,

722
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 2: as opposed to the actual letter of the law that

723
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 2: says intent can be formed and the twinkling of an

724
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 2: eye a moment. The time it takes you to raise

725
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 2: a gun and pull the trigger is enough time to

726
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 2: form a tent, which equals murder. One we wait as

727
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 2: justice unfolds. Good Bye friend,