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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight.

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Speaker 1: Or showed us an email at trust Me pod at

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Speaker 1: gmail dot com.

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Speaker 2: Trust Me.

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Speaker 3: Trust Me.

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Speaker 4: I'm like a swat person. I've never lied to you,

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Speaker 4: I've never live.

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Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 2: don't welcome to trust Me. The podcast about cults, extreme

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Speaker 2: belief and manipulation from two bad girls who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 1: I'm Loweblanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth, resident bad girl.

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Speaker 2: That's all right Today our guests are Zoe and Lillian,

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Speaker 2: survivors of Midwest Academy as well as, in Zoe's case,

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Speaker 2: Academy at Ivy Ridge, two behavior modification facilities for teens

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Speaker 2: from the same organization that's the subject of the new

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Speaker 2: Netflix series called the program CON's and Kidnapping. We have

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Speaker 2: changed Zoe's name at her request, but that's what we're

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Speaker 2: gonna call her.

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Speaker 4: Today.

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Speaker 2: We're going to talk to these ladies about how these

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Speaker 2: programs are marketed to parents as lovely summer camp style

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Speaker 2: schools that will improve their children's behavior problems, and how

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Speaker 2: very wrong that turned out to be. The traumatic ways

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Speaker 2: that Lily and Zoe were brought to the first programs

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Speaker 2: they went to, and how Zoe was immediately thrown into

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Speaker 2: solitary confinement.

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Speaker 5: It's so heartbreaking.

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Speaker 1: They'll tell us about the levels within the program that

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Speaker 1: were impossible to climb, the level of control, the experience

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Speaker 1: that forced them to communicate with only their eyes, and

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Speaker 1: how they were kept from their families, who themselves were

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Speaker 1: groomed and taught to disbelieve anything their children told them.

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Speaker 2: What these women went through is harrowing. There is a

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Speaker 2: lot to get into this episode, and next week we

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Speaker 2: will also have part two. Stay tuned for that. Before

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Speaker 2: we get into it with them, Megan, can you tell

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Speaker 2: me your cultiest thing of this week?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely one of the things I was interested in this week.

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Speaker 1: It's really sad. What was the name of the guests

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Speaker 1: that we had on who was taught to us about

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Speaker 1: the cult of meditation? We loved him so much, Natai

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Speaker 1: Joseph ah obsessed with him anyway, I always think about that,

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Speaker 1: because meditation is something that I enjoy doing, you know,

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Speaker 1: for whatever, a couple minutes a day, what have you,

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Speaker 1: maybe fifteen or something. But there's these retreats called the

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Speaker 1: Pasana that I've always wanted to go on, and there's

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Speaker 1: a new podcast out I'm not sure how new it is,

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Speaker 1: but it's called the Retreat and it just follows a

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Speaker 1: lot of suffering that comes after these retreats. And of course,

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Speaker 1: as always a lot of people have great experiences, but

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Speaker 1: it can cause a certain sort of psychosis. And this

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Speaker 1: beautiful girl twenty two years old ended up taking her

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Speaker 1: own life after an eleven hour quiet meditation session, which

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Speaker 1: can break your brain. Oh my gosh, it's just heartbreaking.

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Speaker 1: And it's such a good reminder.

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Speaker 2: That not everything is for everyone, and the most extreme

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Speaker 2: version of the thing doesn't necessarily mean added value. That

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Speaker 2: can mean it's too much. It's too much. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what happened in that situation. Obviously I

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Speaker 2: would have to look into it. Meditation is amazing for

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Speaker 2: so many people, various forms of it. I like doing mindfulness,

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Speaker 2: but you know, like twelve hours or however many hours

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Speaker 2: to someone who's already.

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Speaker 1: No talking, And I've tried to go to these things

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Speaker 1: so many times. Getting a ticket is like the hardest

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Speaker 1: thing to do, getting a spot. Ten years ago, I

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Speaker 1: remember it being a little bit easier, but now it's

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Speaker 1: like the hottest ticket in town is to get to

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Speaker 1: one of these things, and it's wild.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes I will be spiraling, and I think I've talked

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Speaker 2: about this a little bit, where like I just will

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Speaker 2: be stuck on something and going deeper and deeper into

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Speaker 2: the hole, and then I like just talk to someone

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Speaker 2: about anything else, Like it doesn't even matter if it's

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Speaker 2: related to what we're talking about. I'll just like have

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Speaker 2: a human interaction and I'll be like, oh, I think

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Speaker 2: I was just like too in my own brain, Like

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Speaker 2: I was too deep in the recesses of my own brain. Yes,

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Speaker 2: so I mean like, and that's obviously a different thing

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Speaker 2: because meditation, you know, the a lack of stimulation can

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Speaker 2: actually produce hallucinations and psychosis. Yeah, in certain circumstances.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure the hope is that you would sit

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Speaker 1: there long enough that you would transcend that thought yourself

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Speaker 1: and be free from it forever. And you know, I

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Speaker 1: get it, but I did go on a meditation or

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Speaker 1: two once for like seven days, but we processed it

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Speaker 1: at the end. You know, the meditation sessions were like

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Speaker 1: two hours each, five times a day. We processed it

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Speaker 1: in between and had conversations and you know, talked when

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Speaker 1: we ate and all of these things. And still when

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Speaker 1: I got back, I remember like taking a nap and

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Speaker 1: hearing the sounds of like five million children screaming.

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Speaker 4: Inside of my body. What And it scared me so badly.

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Speaker 5: I think it was just like a like.

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Speaker 2: You heard an actual auditory hallucination.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, who complete completely?

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Speaker 2: I mean that, But that's common. It's more common than

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Speaker 2: people realize. And I think, you know, a lack of

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Speaker 2: understanding about that can lead people to one think they're

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Speaker 2: crazy or too think that their prophets exactly. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: I went straight to crazy.

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Speaker 4: Thank god, not a prophet.

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Speaker 5: Hi, guys, I'm the prophet of screaming children.

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Speaker 1: And I like to yeah, no, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I just lost my mind, but then it stopped. But like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess thank god I never got into one of

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Speaker 1: these things, because I don't know if I could handle

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Speaker 1: it anyway.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I certainly couldn't.

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Speaker 1: What about you, what's the cultiest thing of your week?

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Speaker 2: You know, I saw a tweet that my friend sent me.

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Speaker 2: Do you know who Steve Burns is from Blues Clues? Yes, Steve? Okay,

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Speaker 2: so Step, I'm friends with Steve. We became friends.

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Speaker 6: We're so lucky you.

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Speaker 4: I have the biggest crush on him.

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Speaker 2: I became friends on MySpace like fifteen years ago when

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Speaker 2: I messaged him being like, oh my gosh, you're not dead,

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Speaker 2: and now we you know, we We've beens for a

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Speaker 2: long time. I don't see him very often, but because

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Speaker 2: he lives in New York, but he's wonderful. Steve has

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Speaker 2: been posting these like very wholesome videos. They've gone viral

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Speaker 2: on TikTok and such, where he's basically doing the Blues

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Speaker 2: Clues shtick where he will allow you room to talk,

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Speaker 2: like he'll ask you a question and then let you answer.

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Speaker 2: But it's like for depressed millennials, basically like he'll be

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Speaker 2: sitting there the cup of coffee and be like, how

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Speaker 2: are you doing, how are you feeling, and then he'll

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Speaker 2: just let you talk. It's super wholesome, it's super sweet.

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Speaker 2: People love it. But of course the internet cannot ever

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Speaker 2: let us have nice things. So now there's a person

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Speaker 2: on Twitter quote I'm meeting it who says, if this

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Speaker 2: strikes you as anything apart from deeply unsettling, you are

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Speaker 2: highly vulnerable to the influence of sociopaths and male manipulators. Indeed,

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Speaker 2: you may be under the auspices of one. Right now,

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Speaker 2: what are you talking about? Holy shit, what are you

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Speaker 2: talking about. This is just a man doing a video

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Speaker 2: that is like a commentary on how lonely we all

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Speaker 2: feel and how we all need someone to talk to.

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Speaker 2: And it's really not that serious. It's really not that deep.

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Speaker 2: This man just like loves his dog and lives in

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Speaker 2: the woods, like leave him alone.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 2: People are very enthusiastic about these videos because it's nostalgic

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Speaker 2: and we are all lonely.

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Speaker 1: Speak for yourself, I have five million screaming children inside

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Speaker 1: of me.

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Speaker 2: We all have affectionate memories of these these shows that

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Speaker 2: made us, you know, feel seen when we were kids,

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Speaker 2: and so like it's tapping into that. But it's like

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Speaker 2: it just makes me think about like it's so important

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Speaker 2: to have awareness about manipulation and about high control behaviors

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Speaker 2: and groups and people. But it's that same thing where

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Speaker 2: once like language gets out there, then people start to

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Speaker 2: use and abuse it and like not understand what they

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Speaker 2: actually mean. A video on the Internet of a guy

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Speaker 2: looking into camera does not mean that person is a

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Speaker 2: sociopath or a male manipulator, nor that you are automatically

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Speaker 2: like ready to believe in any as sociopath or male manipulator.

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Speaker 2: This is not science. This is just bullshit nonsense from

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Speaker 2: someone who didn't like a video like calm down.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would join a blues clues cult, but this

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Speaker 1: doesn't sound like he's starting one.

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Speaker 2: I don't think he's starting one. He's not that into

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Speaker 2: people maybe, but yeah, anyway, guys, just come on, kim,

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Speaker 2: let's not throw these words around because they start to

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Speaker 2: lose meaning. And for sure, in general, I feel like

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Speaker 2: once we start to overuse words, then the like actual

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Speaker 2: reason why we need them in the first place becomes degraded.

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Speaker 2: And I see that happening a lot with like cultic language,

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Speaker 2: and I just think it's important to be careful about

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Speaker 2: that because there are so many people who really need

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Speaker 2: that language and really need those terms to help them

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Speaker 2: get through an actual traumatic experience, you know what I mean. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's a really good point.

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Speaker 5: I haven't really thought of it like that before.

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Speaker 2: I mean, when I was coming out of an emotionally

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Speaker 2: abusive relationship, I needed that framework so badly. But if

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Speaker 2: I were now seeing that framework being used to describe

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Speaker 2: like every random thing that I didn't like, then it

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Speaker 2: wouldn't be useful to me at that point. You know

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Speaker 2: what I mean?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 1: I like that speaking of emotionally abusive, the things that

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Speaker 1: these girls went there is absolutely terrible. So we're just

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Speaker 1: going to throw a trigger warning up at the top.

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Speaker 1: Maybe come back and listen to the episode on another

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Speaker 1: day if it's.

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Speaker 4: Too much for you.

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Speaker 2: But here they are, let's get into it. Welcome Zoe

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Speaker 2: and Lily to trust me. Thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 4: Ladies, Thank you for having us. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: This is such a timely episode to be doing right now.

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Speaker 2: There's a new Netflix series that's out that is called

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Speaker 2: the program cons Cults and Kidnapping, and both of you

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Speaker 2: have experience with not only one of the programs named

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Speaker 2: in the series, but also additional programs. There's so much

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Speaker 2: to get into. I just want to start at the beginning. Zoe,

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Speaker 2: and why don't we start with you? Can you tell

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Speaker 2: us about life before Ivy Ridge. Why did your family

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Speaker 2: think you needed to go there? Like, what was the situation?

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Speaker 4: I guess I wasn't a troubled teen I didn't have

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Speaker 4: a you know, criminal background. I didn't have any anything

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Speaker 4: like that. I was just not going to school, skipping

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Speaker 4: school a little bit, uh sneaking out. My parents are

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Speaker 4: pretty strict. I had like an eight o'clock curfew, so

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Speaker 4: all my friends were out past eight o'clock. And I was,

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Speaker 4: you know, freshman in high school and I wanted to

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Speaker 4: go and party with my friends. Yeah, so there were

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Speaker 4: some nights I just didn't come home like.

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Speaker 2: Like a regular rebellious teenager might do right time. Sure, okay, And.

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Speaker 4: I wasn't out doing anything crazy. I mean I was

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Speaker 4: drinking a little bit, maybe smoking a little bit of weed,

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Speaker 4: but I wasn't doing any hardcore drugs, no, nothing, just

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Speaker 4: being a kid. And apparently my parents thought that that

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Speaker 4: was just I was out of control and that I needed,

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Speaker 4: you know, to be back on track. Initially, they're like,

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Speaker 4: you know, we really just want you to catch up

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Speaker 4: on your schoolwork so you can graduate on time. So

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Speaker 4: we found in these places and they really didn't tell

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Speaker 4: me anything about it. I was like, okay, cool, that

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Speaker 4: sounds nice. You guys do your research, and I just

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Speaker 4: kept doing me. One night, they were like, all right, well,

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Speaker 4: we're gonna we have a family vacation pack of stuff.

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Speaker 4: So my brother and I packed our stuff. We got

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Speaker 4: into the car. We drive. I fell asleep, and when

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Speaker 4: I woke up, my dad was like, you know, he

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Speaker 4: knew I smoked cigarettes at the time, and he's like,

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Speaker 4: here's a pack of cigarettes. You can smoke as many

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Speaker 4: as you can in the next twenty minutes. And then

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Speaker 4: you're walking in that door. And I looked over and

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Speaker 4: I was like, okay, so that's where that started. Family vacation.

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Speaker 2: But no one kidnapped you. At least your parents brought

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Speaker 2: you there. But still what a what a like?

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Speaker 3: They knew, they.

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Speaker 4: Knew that if some like they were to have try

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Speaker 4: somebody to kidnap me, I either wasn't going to be

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Speaker 4: home when they showed up, or I was gonna run

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Speaker 4: away before they even got there. Right, I had plenty

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Speaker 4: of exit plans of the house. There was like no

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Speaker 4: way I was gonna let that happen. They would have

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Speaker 4: to break down my door. I had box on my door.

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Speaker 4: I was ready it really, and so I just thought

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Speaker 4: it was a huge threat that my parents were, you know, saying,

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Speaker 4: just to get me to go back to school and

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Speaker 4: get my crap together.

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Speaker 2: And was there were your parents religious at all? Like no,

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Speaker 2: this is just like general parents thinking, our kids out

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Speaker 2: of control. We got to get it back on track.

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Speaker 2: Do you have any sense now of how these programs

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Speaker 2: were sort of marketed to them at the time.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, oh yeah. It is basically just send your

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Speaker 4: kids here. We will show them what's you know, the

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Speaker 4: show them the way basically how to respect authority and

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Speaker 4: how to be better kids and better everything.

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Speaker 2: On the surface, it's like this will help your team, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: your team will help.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, completely marketed wrong, like they showed you know, fun

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Speaker 4: outdoor activities and us going places and doing things and

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Speaker 4: projects and all these things and none none of that ever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the brecher looks the broch are looks tight, and

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Speaker 1: like I want to go there. Before I watched the documentary,

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Speaker 1: very misleading.

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Speaker 2: Like does that look like camp?

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Speaker 4: Basically yeah to me it did, Yeah it did. So

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Speaker 4: that was.

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Speaker 2: Academy at Ivy Ridge.

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Speaker 4: That was actually going to Midwest. Okay, yeah, so taking

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Speaker 4: me to Ivy Ridge, my parents told me we were

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Speaker 4: just going for a tour, and I ended up staying

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Speaker 4: and not leaving, and my parents were like, we'll be

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Speaker 4: back in about a week or so to get you.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, okay. Immediately I freaked out. They threw me

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Speaker 4: an intervention right away. I think I only saw maybe

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Speaker 4: two staff members the entire time I was there. I

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Speaker 4: don't think I saw any girls while I was there.

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Speaker 4: And after about a week and a half or so,

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Speaker 4: my parents came and got me and they're like, okay,

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Speaker 4: well did you learn your lesson? I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: let's let's go home. Let's let's do this. And they're like, okay, well,

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Speaker 4: you know, we're actually going to visit family first and

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Speaker 4: then we'll do that. And we never went to Family.

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Speaker 4: We went straight to Midwest.

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Speaker 5: Wow they tricked you again with another fake trip.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god. That must have felt like such a betrayal.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. After apparently they had been doing all this research

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Speaker 4: about all these schools the whole time. The only one

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Speaker 4: that they had ever told me about was Ivory Ridge

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Speaker 4: until we showed up at Midwest and they're like, well,

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Speaker 4: I think here will be better because it was closer

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Speaker 4: to home.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to ask you more about that in

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Speaker 2: a minute, but Lily, can you kind of give us

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Speaker 2: your background in history and how you ended up in

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Speaker 2: so I.

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Speaker 6: Was the typical rebellious team. I ran away from home

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Speaker 6: a lot.

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Speaker 3: The relationship with my father at the time was not

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Speaker 3: a good relationship.

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Speaker 6: We have since to move past that wonderful now.

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Speaker 3: And I was on a I was running away for

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Speaker 3: about six weeks straight and he ended up finding me.

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Speaker 3: The police picked me up and he took me home

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Speaker 3: and I knew something was wrong right away because he

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Speaker 3: didn't ground me. He was kneeling at me, and so,

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Speaker 3: of course, you know, as a normal teenager, I was like,

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna try to see what I can get away with.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, can I get on the phone?

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Speaker 3: Can I get on the computer? And he's like, yeah, sure,

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Speaker 3: that's fine, and.

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Speaker 6: I was like, yeah, something's up.

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Speaker 3: The next day about it's about ten o'clock in the morning.

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Speaker 3: Typically transport services come in the middle of the night

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Speaker 3: while you're sleeping, but it was about ten o'clock in

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Speaker 3: the morning and I heard someone knock on our front door.

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Speaker 3: I was upstairs in the computer room. I yelled down

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Speaker 3: to ask who it was. They were just like, don't

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Speaker 3: worry about it. And I was on the phone with

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Speaker 3: one of my friends and on the computer with one

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Speaker 3: of my friends, and I told him. I was like

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Speaker 3: because they finally yelled down for me to come downstairs,

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Speaker 3: and I told both of them that if I wasn't

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Speaker 3: back in fifteen minutes, that something was wrong. I was

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Speaker 3: not back in fifteen minutes. I was then handcuffed and

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Speaker 3: placed into a back of a car and transported to

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Speaker 3: and Sonata, Mexico.

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Speaker 4: Whoa, whoa?

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Speaker 2: And which one was this one?

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Speaker 6: This was the cast of by the seat?

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Speaker 2: Okay, did you have any sense of where you were

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Speaker 2: going or what this was all?

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Speaker 6: I had no idea.

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Speaker 3: They started telling me when we were in the car

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Speaker 3: that we were going to a school, and I was like, well,

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Speaker 3: this is ridiculous.

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Speaker 6: Who needs to be handcuffed to go to a school?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,920
Speaker 3: And then they're like, oh, yeah, no, it's in Mexico.

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Speaker 3: It's great, and I was like no. They did not

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00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,960
Speaker 3: tighten the handcuffs around me enough, so I started to

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00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,200
Speaker 3: slip the handcuffs off of my hand to Then the

349
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:31,520
Speaker 3: male transport person reached back behind the seat to where

350
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,320
Speaker 3: I was shove the handcuffs back down on my wrist

351
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Speaker 3: and squeeze them so tight I had bruises for two weeks.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, the experiences within these programs are traumatizing, and we'll

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Speaker 2: get into why that is and the things that happened there,

354
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Speaker 2: but it seems like every story, like just the entrance itself,

355
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Speaker 2: is so traumatizing because there's this total people don't know

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Speaker 2: what's going on. There's confusion, there's strangers suddenly like having

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Speaker 2: complete control over you and no understanding of like why

358
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Speaker 2: or you know, zoeum, you did know that you were

359
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,480
Speaker 2: going to a program or like that the program existed,

360
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,560
Speaker 2: but it had been you'd been lied to basically about

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Speaker 2: what it was.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, as a school, and my mom just said

363
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Speaker 4: it was a school for girls and they had some

364
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,399
Speaker 4: of the best schools. They marketed it with a really

365
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,560
Speaker 4: like strong school background, like you can graduate school in

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Speaker 4: two years, you can get all your high school done

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Speaker 4: in two years. And my mom's like, you know, that

368
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,359
Speaker 4: sounds great, she could do that, and then you know,

369
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:32,040
Speaker 4: we move on.

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Speaker 1: With her life and we can get into like the

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00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:38,680
Speaker 1: great irony of that and a bed because Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I always found really funny was the advertisement for Cross

373
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Speaker 3: by the Sea, Like, my parents actually went down and

374
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,080
Speaker 3: visited the facility before they sent me, and they were

375
00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,880
Speaker 3: told also with the advertisements that we could go horseback

376
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,600
Speaker 3: riding on the beach and we were right on the

377
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,000
Speaker 3: side of the ocean. We could look out the windows.

378
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:56,760
Speaker 3: We were not allowed to look at windows. I never

379
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Speaker 3: seen a horse while I was there.

380
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,040
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, they were obsessed with you guys not looking

381
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Speaker 1: out windows to a point that I what I mean,

382
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:06,280
Speaker 1: I get it.

383
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:08,240
Speaker 6: They weren't allowed to know the time.

384
00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:15,520
Speaker 2: It's such psychological terature. Oh yeah, wow, Zoe. Can you

385
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,040
Speaker 2: talk a little bit more about the Ivy Ridge experience?

386
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Speaker 2: So you said that you never saw any other girls,

387
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,520
Speaker 2: Like what happened in that two weeks?

388
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:25,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was like about a week and a half,

389
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,760
Speaker 4: almost two weeks. I walked into like the main room

390
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,199
Speaker 4: where you walk in like the parent meeting room. My

391
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,919
Speaker 4: parents did not walk in with me. They kind of

392
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,359
Speaker 4: just like dropped me off. There were people waiting out front.

393
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,160
Speaker 4: They locked arms, walked me in. They're like, okay, well

394
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,760
Speaker 4: you're gonna I was like, what the hell, Like no, no, nope,

395
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,720
Speaker 4: tried to turn around and they were like, no, your

396
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,760
Speaker 4: parents want you here. You're gonna be here, and if

397
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,000
Speaker 4: you can't follow the rules, you're gonna be in there.

398
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,240
Speaker 4: And I was like, all right, just put me in there.

399
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:55,359
Speaker 4: Then put me in there.

400
00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:59,320
Speaker 2: So that was an isolation room. Yep, Okay, go on.

401
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:00,840
Speaker 4: And I I don't know if it was on the

402
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,920
Speaker 4: girl side or the boy's side. I wasn't sure what

403
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,960
Speaker 4: sides were what at that point. I just that's where

404
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:07,360
Speaker 4: I was.

405
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,439
Speaker 2: Immediately wow, immediately.

406
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,480
Speaker 4: Wow, And I mean I was freaking out. There was

407
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,840
Speaker 4: no way they were gonna let me out. Like I

408
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,680
Speaker 4: was screaming, I was scratching, I was pounding, I was yelling.

409
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,320
Speaker 4: There's no windows. It's just a tiny, tiny room. The

410
00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,720
Speaker 4: door and you got you know a little crack under

411
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,480
Speaker 4: the door where you can try to, like Lily said earlier,

412
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,960
Speaker 4: get fresh air because there's no fresh air that circulates

413
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,240
Speaker 4: through there. Whoa window where they, you know, peeking on

414
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,240
Speaker 4: you every once in a while. You get cameras too.

415
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:40,680
Speaker 4: I don't believe they had any when I was there.

416
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,680
Speaker 2: So you're in solitary confinement. You've been told you're going

417
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,919
Speaker 2: to school, and then just suddenly you find yourself in

418
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,000
Speaker 2: solitary confinement, like you're in prison, which even in prison,

419
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 2: I think that's wildly unethical and should not happen, But

420
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,360
Speaker 2: especially for like a teenager who just like dayed out

421
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:11,919
Speaker 2: late some nights. I mean, it's just so wild. I

422
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 2: just want to know what that was like psychologically, Like

423
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,000
Speaker 2: you're like multiple days in like what's going through your head?

424
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:22,679
Speaker 4: Everything? I everything. I'm first, I'm claustrophobic, So that in

425
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,120
Speaker 4: itself was just terrible. I was having panic attack after

426
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,840
Speaker 4: panic attack, not even knowing that I was having panic

427
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:30,840
Speaker 4: attacks or what those really were because I had never

428
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 4: had one like those before. It was a lot like

429
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,400
Speaker 4: just you know, why why did my parents put me here?

430
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,440
Speaker 4: I really wasn't, you know. I was thinking to myself, Okay,

431
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 4: was it that? Was I that bad? Like you know,

432
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,159
Speaker 4: I was screaming, you know, I'll do better, like you know,

433
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,280
Speaker 4: anything that I could to get out, but they just

434
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,120
Speaker 4: were like, you know, your parents said that they'll be back,

435
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:50,840
Speaker 4: So you're just going to be here. We're not letting

436
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 4: you into you know, into the general population basically until

437
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,320
Speaker 4: they come and get you. And so during that time,

438
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,320
Speaker 4: like I said, my parents are researching other schools, they

439
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 4: were actually visiting family that was in the New York area,

440
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,560
Speaker 4: and so during their visit with the family, then they

441
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:08,679
Speaker 4: came in, like I said, picked me back up and

442
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 4: took me to m w A where again I was

443
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 4: thrown into the school. And like I was there for

444
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:16,840
Speaker 4: eighteen months at MWA.

445
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 2: Eighteen months.

446
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:19,160
Speaker 3: Wow.

447
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,879
Speaker 5: How long How long were you in the solitary confinement.

448
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:28,679
Speaker 4: At MWA or or your first experience? Yeah, yeah, that

449
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 4: was that ivy then for like I said, a week

450
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 4: and a half.

451
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 1: And then, like I said, people, Oh my god, I

452
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 1: did not realize that.

453
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:38,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, So, like I said, I didn't. I didn't even

454
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,120
Speaker 4: meet any any anybody there. I think it was two

455
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 4: male staff members that checked in on me, who came

456
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 4: and fed me my food three times a day and

457
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,680
Speaker 4: walked me to the bathroom at night to pee.

458
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,760
Speaker 2: Wow at night.

459
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 4: But wow, yeah, if I hadn't during during the day,

460
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 4: it was just in the corner.

461
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 1: Oh my god, oh my, I forgot about that literally

462
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 1: just now.

463
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 4: That's so horrible.

464
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,360
Speaker 2: Did you tell your parents when you got out that

465
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 2: that was what was happening.

466
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,360
Speaker 4: I did, and they did not believe me right off

467
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,199
Speaker 4: the bat. The marketing strategy or the you know, the

468
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,880
Speaker 4: program directors tell our parents. Your kids are liars. They

469
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 4: are nothing but liars, nothing but manipulators. You cannot believe

470
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:27,160
Speaker 4: a word that they say. And literally up until last

471
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 4: Tuesday when the documentary came out, that was when my

472
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 4: parents believed me. Were you serious?

473
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 2: Oh my god, this must be such a crazy time

474
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 2: for you and your family emotionally. I like, you must

475
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 2: be going through it.

476
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 4: All of us. Yeah, it like we tried so hard

477
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 4: to tell people when we all got out what had

478
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 4: happened to us, and we got brushed off. Nobody believed us.

479
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 4: We didn't have proof really, and so who's going to

480
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,879
Speaker 4: believe a bunch of delinquent kids, you know, who were

481
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 4: in a program because they were bad.

482
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting because one of the cultiest aspects of

483
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: this whole thing from the documentary to me is that

484
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: it's like the parents are in the cult, you know,

485
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: the deepest. They are completely brainwashed and taught to not

486
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,719
Speaker 1: believe their children anymore. It's so crazy how much that

487
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 1: worked almost one hundred percent at the time.

488
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 2: So wow, Yeah, these so many poor kids like dehumanized

489
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,439
Speaker 2: to the point where just like anything you say is

490
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 2: not trusted and not believed. I mean, like when you

491
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,400
Speaker 2: make someone bad, suddenly their word doesn't matter, and that's

492
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 2: just really sad.

493
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 4: Just being bad wasn't bad enough, Like our story even

494
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 4: telling our truth in the program, it was not good enough,

495
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 4: Like we had to make up so many stories and

496
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 4: lies about ourselves to be one up on the next

497
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 4: person so that we could get points for sharing, so

498
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 4: that we could make it to the next level.

499
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 2: Like what do you mean.

500
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 4: So there's the point system in the program, and there's

501
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 4: a level system in the program. You start off at

502
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,199
Speaker 4: level one. The goals to get to level six to

503
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 4: be able to graduate, to be able to exit the program,

504
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 4: and you have to get so many amount of points

505
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 4: to make it to the next level. But they make

506
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 4: it basically impossible to get to the next level because

507
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 4: of all of the consequences and points that the rules

508
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,159
Speaker 4: that they have in place to make you lose.

509
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 2: Points exactly like a cult.

510
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 3: Okay, So basically what a consequence is is when you

511
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 3: break a rule, you have to face the consequences and

512
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 3: you fill out a sheet of paper saying I've learned

513
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 3: from said consequence, and then you lose so many points

514
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 3: depending on the category of the rule that you broke.

515
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 6: And these rules can be extremely vague.

516
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 3: So you could get a rude act, which is five

517
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 3: points just because a staff never felt like you were

518
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 3: looking at them rudely. Or you could get a disrespect

519
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 3: to staff for that, which is twenty five.

520
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 2: Points all up to their It's just totally subjective and

521
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 2: made up depending on how.

522
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 4: Many points right.

523
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: I also saw on the doc that like one girl

524
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 1: got in trouble because she made eye contact with a

525
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: boy like that could be.

526
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you're not allowed to make eye contact with

527
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 4: anyone ever for any reason. Just the rule, you're not

528
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 4: allowed to talk without permission. You have to basically look down,

529
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 4: raise your hand, wait for a staff to call your name,

530
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 4: and then you can speak. You don't get to speak

531
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 4: to any of the girls in your families unless their

532
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 4: levels are high enough to be able to talk to you.

533
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 4: So if I'm a level one, I can only talk

534
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 4: to I think it was like level four and up

535
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 4: level two, level three. Level two's could talk to each other,

536
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 4: but only with a staff listening or somebody listening to

537
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 4: their conversation, so that nothing sketchy was being said.

538
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: Apologies, what what do you mean to talk to your families?

539
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: Was that like something that was referred like your actual

540
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: family or did you refer to like little clusters of.

541
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 3: Oh, whatever group that we were placed in in the program,

542
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 3: it was our family. So, for example, when I first

543
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 3: got to CASA, I was put in Glory Family, and

544
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 3: then when I transferred to Midwest after CASA shut down,

545
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 3: I was put in Essence fam.

546
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 6: So then group of Essence girls was now your family.

547
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 4: I seep, I.

548
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 2: See, really, can you tell us about your first days

549
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 2: and what that experience was like.

550
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 3: Well, once I finally made it to CASA, I had

551
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 3: staff members trying to speak to me in Spanish.

552
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 6: I didn't understand anything they were saying.

553
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 3: I was then taken to a room with three Mexican

554
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 3: staff women members where I was strip searched while I

555
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 3: was on my period. I was forced to take out

556
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 3: my tampon in front of them to prove that I

557
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 3: didn't have drugs on me, even though I.

558
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 6: Was not set for drugs. I did not do drugs.

559
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 3: And then I was placed into a hallway full of

560
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 3: bunk beds and sleeping girls, and a mattress was placed

561
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 3: on the floor and I laid there and cried myself

562
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 3: to sleep and just trying to figure out where I

563
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 3: was what was going on?

564
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 6: Why my parents hated me, you know, to send me away?

565
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 6: You know, why would they do this to me? You know,

566
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 6: was I really that bad?

567
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 4: You know?

568
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 6: Do they want me anymore? And then from there.

569
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 3: You wake up the next day and you're just You're

570
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 3: assigned a hope buddy, which is typically a level four,

571
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 3: and they tell you all the rules and you have

572
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 3: them for three days, the hope buddy, and you're supposed

573
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 3: to learn all of these rules in a three day

574
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 3: period while also writing all the rules out. Nobody ever

575
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 3: gets it right. It's a setup for failure. Once you're

576
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 3: in for a while, things do tend to like blur together.

577
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 3: So a lot of my time at COSA, I was

578
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 3: there for three months, it did a lot of it

579
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 3: did blur. There are you know, specific things that I

580
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 3: do remember. We also were not allowed to look at boys.

581
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 3: We had to face the wall whenever boys were coming.

582
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 3: The only time we could see them was in seminars,

583
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 3: and even then you better not even look at them.

584
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 3: It was oh in Mexico. We were not allowed to

585
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 3: shave until we reached a level three. So by the

586
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 3: time I got out, it was a joke with my

587
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 3: dad when he came and got me from San Diego

588
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 3: after the program shut down, I lifted up my arm

589
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 3: and I was like.

590
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,199
Speaker 6: Look, Dad, my arm by airs longer than yours.

591
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 3: And He's like, you're disgusting, and I'm like, no, you're disgusting.

592
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 6: But you are literally placed in this environment.

593
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 3: You have no idea what is going on. You cannot

594
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 3: trust anyone around you because all of the other girls

595
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 3: were terrified as well, and they're being constantly being told

596
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 3: that if they're not working their program, they can't go home,

597
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 3: and they're stuck there. So, for example, I was sent

598
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 3: when I was fifteen years old. I would have had

599
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 3: to sit there till I was eighteen years old if

600
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 3: I didn't work the program. And then they put on

601
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 3: this it's like a almost like a Stanford prison experiment.

602
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 3: So when the girls level up more and more and more,

603
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 3: they have to tattletale on the other girls, which brings

604
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 3: the girls back down and it ends up power tripping.

605
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 3: But it is literally the only way you can graduate

606
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 3: and get out.

607
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 2: To tell on people like that what you're required. So

608
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 2: what does that look like? I'm keeping track of how

609
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 2: many people you're telling on, Like, what was the system No, it.

610
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 6: Wasn't like that.

611
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 3: It's just if you see somebody breaking a rule, you

612
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 3: immediately have to go tattletale, because if you don't tattletale

613
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 3: and somebody sees that you saw the person breaking the rule,

614
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 3: then you would also get in trouble.

615
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:46,959
Speaker 5: Right, that's so samtology.

616
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 2: It's so it's so Jim Jones. I mean, it's so

617
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 2: every cult. I mean that's literally people completely isolated from

618
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 2: each other and make sure they're all afraid of each

619
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 2: other so that they don't can unicate and like take

620
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 2: a stand, you know, or like pause and think, hmm,

621
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 2: maybe there's something I could do here, you know, Like

622
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 2: it's such a tactic. What would an average day look like?

623
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 2: What was everyone doing all day?

624
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 4: So we would get up, they would flip the lights

625
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 4: on and say we had I think it was like

626
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 4: what thirty thirty seconds or a minute to jump out

627
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 4: of bed, get our beds made, and then get in

628
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 4: line and wait in line, and then we would go

629
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 4: to breakfast and then right, oh, yes, the head counts.

630
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 4: Every day you'd have to count off.

631
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 6: One two room left.

632
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 4: Every room you left, and we walked in line structure

633
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 4: and so that's our hands at our side. We're pivoting

634
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 4: at every corner and no talking, nothing.

635
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 2: Were there class the.

636
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 6: Back of the head of the person in front of.

637
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 4: You, yep. And if you looked out a line, that

638
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 4: was a consequence. If you look down, that was a consequence.

639
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 6: Like it was even if your eyes moved.

640
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 2: Wow, I mean it sounds more restrictive than a lot

641
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 2: of prisons. I mean, like it was insane. So were

642
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 2: you both at Midwest at the same time?

643
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 4: We were?

644
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 2: Okay, is that how y'all met? Then? Yeah?

645
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 5: Okay, So did you ever tattle on each other?

646
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 3: Stritch role that, Like I would like secretly tell people, like,

647
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 3: don't do anything blatant in front of me, because I'm

648
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 3: not going to switch on you.

649
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 6: But if i have to, or I'll get in trouble,

650
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 6: I'll do it. Please don't make me be the bad

651
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 6: don't do that.

652
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 5: When would you tell when would you tell them that?

653
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 4: Like?

654
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: When would you have the time alone to kind of

655
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: make a point like that?

656
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 3: So at night you so you were either a bunk

657
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 3: leader or a bunk buddy, And if you were a

658
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:00,719
Speaker 3: bunk buddy, you were on the top bunk. And if

659
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 3: you're a bunk leader, you were on the bottom. And

660
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 3: when I was a bunk leader, I would wake up

661
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 3: the girl, the new girl that I would get, and

662
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 3: because you have to go everywhere with your buddy, so

663
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 3: I'd wake her up.

664
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 6: And I'd be like, hey, we have to pee, so

665
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 6: we go to.

666
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 3: The bathroom, And on the way to the bathroom, I'm like, hey,

667
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 3: don't do nothing stupid, so I have to snitch on you.

668
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 3: Don't make me do that, Like, I'll just leave you be,

669
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 3: you leave me be, you know. And because of that,

670
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 3: a lot of my bunk buddies love me.

671
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: So the only way to have a conversation with somebody

672
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: is to walk to the bathroom in the middle of

673
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: the night.

674
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 4: Essentially, yeah, because the.

675
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 3: Night staff typically had no idea about any of the

676
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 3: rules or what we had to do, so it was

677
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 3: literally the only time we could like sneak a conversation.

678
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 2: Basically, the program was doing everything within its power to

679
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 2: prevent people from becoming friends. But were you making friends

680
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 2: slowly sneakily anyway? Like, how did that work?

681
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 4: These were the only girls that we saw on a

682
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 4: daily basis for you know, months, years at a time,

683
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 4: and if we you know, we weren't allowed to speak

684
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 4: but we we made lots of I like, we spoke

685
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 4: with our eyes, right, Like you could tell what somebody

686
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 4: needed or wanted just by looking at them, and you

687
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 4: had to just make sure that nobody was looking at

688
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 4: you while you were looking at them, so that you

689
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 4: didn't get in trouble. But they were. They became family.

690
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 4: Like I didn't speak to my parents after I got

691
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 4: to Midwest for about six months or see, like speak

692
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 4: to them at all, Like no phone calls, no, no, nothing.

693
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 4: So when you have just these faces, these girls all day,

694
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 4: every day and they're the only ones that are going

695
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 4: through what you're going through, you kind of all bond together.

696
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, it's amazing. Like I feel like

697
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 2: already just in real regular life, like girls can kind

698
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 2: of like look at each other and like communicate a lot.

699
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 2: I mean everyone can, but I feel like it's girls

700
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 2: be doing that. That must be like on steroids when

701
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: you're in that situation, like you're communicating paragraphs in paragraphs

702
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 2: your eyes because there's no other way to do it.

703
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 4: Right.

704
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 2: Yes, that's amazing and that's a little superpowerful. Yeah.

705
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

706
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: What strikes me is how bizarre it must be to

707
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 1: live in the normal world. Now where somebody is just

708
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: like looking at you and you're like, what do you need?

709
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 5: What are you thinking? Like they're just like nothing, I'm

710
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 5: just like looking at it.

711
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:26,240
Speaker 1: I can't imagine like trying to reframe all of that trauma.

712
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 3: Now you don't really you spend your time anticipating everyone's

713
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 3: needs around you. It's literally like you were in an

714
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 3: abusive relationship and you were waiting for just the change

715
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 3: of the tone, the change of the facial expression. You

716
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 3: do that with literally everyone in your life.

717
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 2: Right right, Oh, that is an unwanted like extra perception

718
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 2: that nobody needs to have, nobody should have ever had.

719
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 5: It's like hyper hyper vigilance.

720
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, So I want to know more about Just

721
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 2: like so now you're both at this school or school

722
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 2: in quotation program together and like how how much did

723
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 2: you advance?

724
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 4: Did you?

725
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:14,280
Speaker 2: Were you punished frequently?

726
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 4: Like what?

727
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 2: Just like kind of paint the picture for us, I mean,

728
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 2: but whoever wants to take that?

729
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 5: Oh?

730
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, I didn't want to work to the program.

731
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 4: I wasn't. I just I couldn't fathom what they were

732
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 4: trying to force upon me. Like I just I didn't

733
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 4: in my mind, it was like this is still messed up,

734
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 4: Like like, I just I'm not going to do it.

735
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 4: I just tried to focus on school or on doing

736
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,919
Speaker 4: the school work. But just focusing on school work isn't

737
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 4: good enough because you have to move up in your program,

738
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 4: and if you don't do that, then you're resisting, and

739
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 4: if you're resisting, you get put an intervention. Was the

740
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 4: go ahead?

741
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 2: Was there any way? Like I know you said that

742
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: you kind of would need to be reporting people to

743
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,439
Speaker 2: move up, Like was there anything else that you could

744
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 2: do to move up?

745
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 4: Like?

746
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 2: No, that was it and just like stay keeping your

747
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 2: head down and doing your work.

748
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 4: Kissing ass.

749
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, you also to make sure that everyone in your

750
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 3: your family liked you, including all of the staff around you.

751
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 3: If you didn't have everybody like you while also telling

752
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 3: on them, you were not advancing.

753
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 5: Wow, that's a that's laundring.

754
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty impossible situation to be in, Zoe. You were

755
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 2: also you were starting to say something else.

756
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I did not advance. Really. I made it

757
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 4: to level three, that's the highest level that I made

758
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 4: it to, but I constantly was dropping levels because I

759
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:48,800
Speaker 4: was constantly breaking rules or getting consequences and just resisting

760
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 4: the program. In general and so yeah, I ended up

761
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 4: in intervention quite a few times, you know, for weeks

762
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 4: at a time. Sometimes Lily, I know, was in for

763
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 4: months at a time. So it's it's crazy. And like

764
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 4: when you get out of intervention, if you know, they

765
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 4: decide you're okay to get out of intervention, they don't

766
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 4: put you back into your families right away. You go

767
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:16,399
Speaker 4: to worksheets afterwards. And worksheets is a whole other fun

768
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,399
Speaker 4: story where they put you in another room and you're

769
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 4: at a table and you get self help tapes, so

770
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,919
Speaker 4: nothing but Zeg Ziegler and Tony Robinson.

771
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 2: Oh my god, over and over.

772
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 4: And over, and you would listen to a portion of

773
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 4: it and then you would have to write down what

774
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 4: you learn, and then you would turn that paper in

775
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 4: and it have to be a full front page, and

776
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,240
Speaker 4: then you turn it in and then they'd play it again,

777
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:41,879
Speaker 4: and you would do this all day long.

778
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 2: All we're getting tortured with self help programs. That is

779
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 2: absolutely insane. You've never heard of anything like that.

780
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 4: Yep. They were even playing most tapes while we were

781
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 4: in an intervention sometimes like put the boom box right

782
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 4: outside the door.

783
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 6: They also played them while we were eating our food.

784
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,760
Speaker 2: Do you get triggered the second you hear a self

785
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 2: help person speaking? Now, I can't. I can only imagine

786
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 2: they're not.

787
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: They're nodding, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry.

788
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 4: Yeah.

789
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 2: An intervention? Was that also the same thing like isolation

790
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 2: or what?

791
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:20,320
Speaker 4: What?

792
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 2: What did that mean?

793
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 4: So? Well, yeah, intervention was isolation room oss. It was

794
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 4: that we when we were there, we called it intervention

795
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 4: because that's when they were playing the tapes. Because you

796
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 4: were supposed to be getting an intervention, you were supposed

797
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 4: to be re you know, reprogramming yourself.

798
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 2: What a what a way to reprogram people? Just torture

799
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 2: them with information that they don't want. I'm sure that's

800
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 2: going to work really well.

801
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,240
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, somebody who's paid a lot of money

802
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: to go see a Tony Robbins lecture, I feel I'm

803
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: really stupid right now.

804
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,280
Speaker 6: Feel bad because our parents paid a lot of money.

805
00:38:58,600 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 4: Yeah to him.

806
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,320
Speaker 1: That's a really good point, Like these programs are not cheap?

807
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: Are these are money making machines because you guys are

808
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: basically doing all the labor and they're paying people practically

809
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: nothing to work there, which we can get into later.

810
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, this was just

811
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: a way to make a shit ton of money, right, yeah.

812
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, so there'd be intervention as punishment and then

813
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 2: after intervention worksheets you said, and then you could get

814
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 2: back into your family if you like did all of that, right,

815
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 2: What impact did that have on your behavior? Did you

816
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 2: guys like just start falling in line more because you

817
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,240
Speaker 2: were living in fear all the time? Like what happened?

818
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 5: How was that for me?

819
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 4: Yeah? I did after like my third time in intervention,

820
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 4: I think I my third stint in there. I was

821
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 4: in there for about three weeks, four weeks, and I broke.

822
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 4: I was like, okay, I will submit, I will do

823
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 4: you want me to do. I will work this program.

824
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 4: I will do it. But in my like deep down,

825
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 4: I was like, all right, just fake it, fake it,

826
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 4: fake it, submit, do what you got to do exactly

827
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 4: and it won't be that bad. And so I never

828
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 4: went back to intervention after that. And like I said,

829
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 4: I tried. I did try to work the program. But

830
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 4: you make it to level three and then you get

831
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 4: to finally go to a seminar called parent you know,

832
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 4: parent child where you get to see your parents. And

833
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 4: that was the first time I had seen my parents

834
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 4: in eight months six months, and.

835
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 2: You can't see your parents until you make it to

836
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 2: that level yep.

837
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 4: And if some kids never make it to that level,

838
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:42,959
Speaker 4: so they never get to see their parents mothery in there.

839
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 5: Wow.

840
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 4: And I just wanted to be able to get in

841
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 4: front of them, so if I was able to tell

842
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 4: them to their face what was happening, they wouldn't make

843
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 4: me stay any longer.

844
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

845
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 4: But by that period of time, they were so brainwashed

846
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 4: by the program because they had to do their own

847
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 4: seminars that if I were to try to tell them, hey,

848
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,760
Speaker 4: take me out of here, I would have been dropped

849
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 4: that second.

850
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 2: Because basically they've already been primed, like prepared for what

851
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 2: would happen if you had to respond if you say

852
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 2: that to them.

853
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 4: Because immediately they tell them, well, remember you know your

854
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:18,919
Speaker 4: kid's going to tell you right away, take me home.

855
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 4: And they prepare them for that before they even go

856
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 4: into seminar.

857
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: My gosh, And what is like how often are they

858
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: doing seminar the parents?

859
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 6: About every six weeks?

860
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 4: Yeah?

861
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,720
Speaker 2: And people were people able to talk on the phone

862
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 2: with anyone prior to that, not at all.

863
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 3: No, unless you were a level three, you got a

864
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 3: phone call once a month.

865
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 4: Other than that, By the way, the.

866
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:44,240
Speaker 6: Phone calls were completely monitored.

867
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 3: The staff would sit there listen to you, but if

868
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 3: you said anything that they didn't agree with, they would

869
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 3: immediately hang up the phone call. You would get put

870
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,439
Speaker 3: in isolation and they would call your parents back and

871
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 3: be like, they're.

872
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 6: Trying to manipulate you.

873
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 4: Back to level one.

874
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, right back to level one. So you start right

875
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 6: from the beginning.

876
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 3: And if you're a level three, four or five, if

877
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 3: you go to intervention, you start right back at level one.

878
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 2: And what's the youngest whore? What's the age range for

879
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 2: kids who were there?

880
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: Oh?

881
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 4: God, the youngest girl there I think was eleven, maybe twelve.

882
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 6: I knew a girl that was there when she I

883
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:23,760
Speaker 6: met her when she was thirteen, and she was already

884
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 6: in for like two years.

885
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god. What if you never advanced, I mean,

886
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 2: and you're just there for that many years? I mean

887
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 2: that is crazy, crazy, crazy. I mean any amount of

888
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 2: time is crazy. A week is crazy, but for like,

889
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 2: you know, seven years, that's unbelievable.

890
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

891
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm wondering. You know, you said I decided to

892
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 5: just kind of fake it.

893
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:55,240
Speaker 1: But I'm wondering at what point your actual thinking starts

894
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: to change for real and you're not faking it anymore.

895
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't really know. Like I said, when I decided,

896
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 4: like the last time an intervention, I was going out

897
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 4: and I was just going to do the thing, I

898
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 4: think I just blocked it out. I really have a

899
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 4: hard time, or have had hard time, remembering a lot

900
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 4: of specifics, a lot of faces, a lot of names.

901
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 4: Slowly but surely, they unfortunately keep popping up. But it's

902
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 4: just been a process.

903
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's where we'll leave part one for now. Come

904
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 2: back next week for part two. There's a lot more

905
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 2: to get into with these girls. Megan. It's come the

906
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 2: time of the episode we're ask you questions, so I'm

907
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 2: going to ask you, do you think that there was

908
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 2: a world in which you could have been sent to

909
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 2: one of these programs?

910
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:48,280
Speaker 5: Oh, that's a good question.

911
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,919
Speaker 1: Actually, I do remember a time in high school where

912
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: my mom and I were getting along so poorly that

913
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 1: she did recommend some sort of boarding school. Maybe I

914
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: recommended it and she agreed and we got like a brochure,

915
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: But I think it was more of just like a

916
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: Hogwarts uh not. It wasn't I'm just saying, like, I

917
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 1: do not think the two could be compared. It was

918
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: like a pretty building, and like, you know, I think

919
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: it was just like private school, so very different. And

920
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 1: but who knows. We didn't look that far into it.

921
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: And it did say that it was like behavior modifying,

922
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: so so it could have been it could have been terrible.

923
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, were.

924
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 2: You a rebellious Like were you doing things.

925
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 1: That That's the hard thing to know when you're raised

926
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,240
Speaker 1: in a super strict environment. It's like, right, was I

927
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: was I rebellious? Or was I just like wanting to

928
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: paint my nails? I don't know.

929
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so it sounds like no, I mean I

930
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 2: think I was.

931
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:50,720
Speaker 5: I think I was to a degree.

932
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 1: But but like you know, I snuck out to a

933
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 1: guy's house and spent the night once. What do you

934
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: want me to say, I'm crazy?

935
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 2: Uh? Yeah I was not. I mean I wanted to

936
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 2: hang out with boys for sure and stay out late.

937
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 2: But I never drank.

938
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:06,919
Speaker 4: Ever.

939
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 2: I still never drink, that's right, And I've never I

940
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 2: never smoked. I like never did dry. You know, Like

941
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,799
Speaker 2: I was really not like a rebel kid.

942
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:17,959
Speaker 1: I would do those things. I once like the first

943
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: time I smoked weed was with this guy I was dating,

944
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 1: and then he dropped me up at home and my

945
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: parents were like, we need to have a serious conversation

946
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 1: with you. Guys were like so high. Oh no, and

947
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 1: they're like, what is going on? And like I couldn't

948
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: stop laughing even though I was like so scared, and

949
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 1: to this day is like the worst moment of my life.

950
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 2: So terrible.

951
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 1: Yeah I was. I was rebellious, But you know, a

952
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 1: lot of kids are in should be sent to this

953
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: kind of torture that's like worse than I.

954
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 2: Mean, that's the thing. It's not about their behavior at all,

955
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 2: Like it's it's about the perception of their behavior. And

956
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 2: in some cases it just seems like a nice thing

957
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 2: that could be helpful, like and it's not even related,

958
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 2: you know, So it's not it has nothing to do

959
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 2: with the actual kids behavior, but it is interesting the person.

960
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 2: How Like when we perceive kids as being bad kids

961
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 2: or as being in need of something like that, Well,

962
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 2: some kids, I mean, I.

963
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: Wish I would have asked them this, like if your

964
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 1: kid is beyond you know, the scope of normal rebellious,

965
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: I'm using quotation marks. You guys can't see me just

966
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 1: loly can see me, but I'm still doing it for

967
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: some reason, he.

968
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 2: Keeps doing it.

969
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 5: What would they suggest you do? Because I mean I

970
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 5: do know.

971
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 1: I had a friend and well actually it was the

972
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:34,359
Speaker 1: very same boyfriend I was smoking we'd with who did

973
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 1: have to go to military school because he was going

974
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: to go to jail or was going to go like

975
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: get into actual big trouble if something didn't happen. And

976
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,399
Speaker 1: I was just wondering what they would what they would

977
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: say they would do with a kid that was struggling, like.

978
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 2: An actual troubled team, like what's the healthy way to

979
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 2: kind of I wish, I.

980
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 5: Wish I would have done that, but I didn't. New

981
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 5: Slash though, Well.

982
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,839
Speaker 2: Maybe we can look into it and discuss it in

983
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 2: the next episode.

984
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, true, Yeah, next next week's episode is great.

985
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 5: We can't wait to see you.

986
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: Then watch the program on Netflix before you do if

987
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 1: you want to see what exactly we're talking about.

988
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 5: Anything else to add Lala.

989
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 2: Rate us five stars on the podcast app Ooh.

990
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, please leave a little review if it's nice, and

991
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: as always, remember to follow your gut, watch out for

992
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:24,720
Speaker 1: red flags.

993
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 2: And never ever trust me by bye trust me as

994
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 2: produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and Steve Delamater.

995
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 5: The special thanks to Stacy Para.

996
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 2: And our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

997
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

998
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult Pod, or on TikTok at

999
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 1: trust Me Cult Podcast.

1000
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 2: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1001
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

1002
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter.

1003
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the word.