1 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:51,921 Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold 2 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,361 Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite 3 00:00:55,401 --> 00:00:58,761 Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially 4 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,961 Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 5 00:01:03,001 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be 6 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,961 Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 7 00:01:10,041 --> 00:01:14,041 Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has 8 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 9 00:01:17,961 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 10 00:01:21,041 --> 00:01:23,601 Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 11 00:01:24,121 --> 00:01:27,121 Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 12 00:01:30,001 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: As a lot of you probably already know. While I've 13 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 2: been working on the Christina Pipkin case, I've also been 14 00:01:35,721 --> 00:01:40,481 Speaker 2: exploring other unsolved deaths in Arkansas. Right now, I'm looking 15 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,121 Speaker 2: at an article from the Commercial Appeal newspaper came out 16 00:01:44,161 --> 00:01:48,001 Speaker 2: on Thursday, June third, nineteen ninety three. The title of 17 00:01:48,041 --> 00:01:51,761 Speaker 2: the article is Authorities wonder if six kids deaths in 18 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,961 Speaker 2: East Arkansas are related. Those children in the article referred 19 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,281 Speaker 2: to were Christina Pipkin, who, as we know, went missing 20 00:01:59,281 --> 00:02:02,561 Speaker 2: in May of nineteen ninety one. And also Steve Branch, 21 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,801 Speaker 2: Michael Moore, and Christopher Byers, the three eight year old 22 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,441 Speaker 2: boys who were murdered in West Memphis in nineteen ninety three. 23 00:02:09,641 --> 00:02:14,321 Speaker 2: It also includes sixteen year old Guardinia Cross and thirteen 24 00:02:14,361 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 2: year old Geneva Smith. Guardina and Geneva's bodies were found 25 00:02:19,441 --> 00:02:22,801 Speaker 2: near Wynn, Arkansas, just a few miles from Hickory Ridge. 26 00:02:24,041 --> 00:02:27,201 Speaker 2: To be honest, I haven't seen any obvious connections between 27 00:02:27,201 --> 00:02:30,561 Speaker 2: these children in East Arkansas. As we said before, these 28 00:02:30,641 --> 00:02:34,121 Speaker 2: children were different ages, some were different races, and they 29 00:02:34,161 --> 00:02:38,641 Speaker 2: had very different life circumstances. The boys in West Memphis 30 00:02:38,641 --> 00:02:43,121 Speaker 2: and Guardinia Cross had been brutalized, while in Christina's case 31 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,761 Speaker 2: there didn't it appear to be any outward signs of violence. 32 00:02:46,561 --> 00:02:50,041 Speaker 2: So just on the surface, it does not seem like 33 00:02:50,121 --> 00:02:52,161 Speaker 2: this was the work of a single serial killer. 34 00:02:53,001 --> 00:02:56,761 Speaker 3: But there are a lot of weird coincidences in these cases. 35 00:02:57,321 --> 00:03:00,761 Speaker 2: In fact, in three of the four cases, suspects were 36 00:03:00,841 --> 00:03:05,281 Speaker 2: arrested but ultimately released. All of these children were found 37 00:03:05,321 --> 00:03:08,441 Speaker 2: in or near bodies of water, and all of them 38 00:03:08,601 --> 00:03:09,761 Speaker 2: are unsolved. 39 00:03:11,841 --> 00:03:12,961 Speaker 3: I'm Catherine Townsend. 40 00:03:13,481 --> 00:03:16,681 Speaker 2: Over the past five years of making my true crime podcast, 41 00:03:16,721 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 2: Helen Gone. I've learned that there is no such thing 42 00:03:19,681 --> 00:03:23,401 Speaker 2: as a small town where murder never happens. I've received 43 00:03:23,521 --> 00:03:26,841 Speaker 2: hundreds of messages from people all around the country asking 44 00:03:26,881 --> 00:03:30,441 Speaker 2: for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, 45 00:03:30,481 --> 00:03:31,481 Speaker 2: and their communities. 46 00:03:32,081 --> 00:03:33,361 Speaker 3: If you have a case. 47 00:03:33,121 --> 00:03:35,441 Speaker 2: You'd like me and my team to look into, you 48 00:03:35,481 --> 00:03:37,241 Speaker 2: can reach out to us at our Hell and Gone 49 00:03:37,321 --> 00:03:40,721 Speaker 2: Murder line at six seven eight seven four four six' 50 00:03:40,881 --> 00:03:44,641 Speaker 2: one four. Five that's six seven eight seven four four 51 00:03:45,041 --> 00:03:49,041 Speaker 2: six one four or. Five this Is Helen Gone Murder. 52 00:03:49,081 --> 00:04:36,401 Speaker 2: Line i'm making my way through all these freedom of 53 00:04:36,481 --> 00:04:40,121 Speaker 2: information Requests i've done over the past few. Weeks, obviously 54 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,001 Speaker 2: we Have Christina pipkins case, file though there do appear 55 00:04:43,041 --> 00:04:46,241 Speaker 2: to be some doctor Kim it's, missing including crime scene. 56 00:04:46,281 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 2: Photos The Arkansas State police told me they believe The 57 00:04:50,401 --> 00:04:53,361 Speaker 2: Genevas smith case is still, open so they were not 58 00:04:53,521 --> 00:04:55,961 Speaker 2: able to provide me with any information from that case. 59 00:04:56,001 --> 00:05:01,001 Speaker 2: File and they weren't able to Find Guardina cross's case at. 60 00:05:01,001 --> 00:05:03,521 Speaker 2: All they said they had no record of it at 61 00:05:03,521 --> 00:05:06,801 Speaker 2: The Arkansas State. Police, now this could just mean that 62 00:05:06,841 --> 00:05:09,361 Speaker 2: this case file is with the. COUNTY i filed a 63 00:05:09,401 --> 00:05:11,161 Speaker 2: request In Cross county And. 64 00:05:11,041 --> 00:05:11,961 Speaker 3: I'll let you all know what. 65 00:05:12,001 --> 00:05:16,241 Speaker 2: Happens but even though the circumstances of all these children's 66 00:05:16,241 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 2: deaths were so, DIFFERENT i want to take a look 67 00:05:19,481 --> 00:05:22,841 Speaker 2: at some of the seemingly odd similarities. 68 00:05:23,881 --> 00:05:25,001 Speaker 3: In Christina pipkins. 69 00:05:25,001 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 2: Case remembered there was a, Suspect Robbie. Tubbs he was 70 00:05:29,441 --> 00:05:33,001 Speaker 2: arrested years later in nineteen ninety, nine and then he 71 00:05:33,121 --> 00:05:36,361 Speaker 2: was later released due to some pretty catastrophic mistakes with 72 00:05:36,441 --> 00:05:42,481 Speaker 2: the hair fiber evidence that was. Found in nineteen ninety. 73 00:05:42,521 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 2: Two Geneva's smith was thirteen years. Old she left home 74 00:05:46,361 --> 00:05:48,241 Speaker 2: to get on the school, bus and she never came. 75 00:05:48,281 --> 00:05:51,801 Speaker 2: BACK a few days, later her body was found floating 76 00:05:51,801 --> 00:05:55,681 Speaker 2: in The Saint Francis. River her remains were badly, decomposed 77 00:05:55,841 --> 00:05:59,161 Speaker 2: so much that it was hard to identify. HER i 78 00:05:59,281 --> 00:06:01,921 Speaker 2: was struck by the fact that there is very little 79 00:06:01,961 --> 00:06:05,681 Speaker 2: About Geneva smith's murder out. There the theories about who 80 00:06:05,761 --> 00:06:09,001 Speaker 2: killed her if you look on online, forums ranged from 81 00:06:09,001 --> 00:06:11,601 Speaker 2: a serial killer to THE kkk to a member of 82 00:06:11,641 --> 00:06:14,801 Speaker 2: her extended. Family, basically it's a mixed bag and no 83 00:06:14,841 --> 00:06:18,761 Speaker 2: one seems to have any real. Answers there was an 84 00:06:18,841 --> 00:06:22,561 Speaker 2: arrest In geneva's, case but like In Christina pipkins, case 85 00:06:22,961 --> 00:06:24,161 Speaker 2: the arrest came years. 86 00:06:24,241 --> 00:06:26,961 Speaker 3: Later In november of nineteen ninety. 87 00:06:27,041 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 2: Nine the same year when police were building a case 88 00:06:29,441 --> 00:06:34,121 Speaker 2: Against Robbie tubbs For Christina pipkins, murder two men Named 89 00:06:34,201 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 2: Johnny key And Freddie jones were arrested and charged With 90 00:06:37,681 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 2: Geneva smith's. Murder police did not say much at the, 91 00:06:41,681 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 2: time but apparently the case depended on the cooperation of 92 00:06:44,921 --> 00:06:49,441 Speaker 2: a key. WITNESS i found this from a local newspaper 93 00:06:49,441 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 2: back in the. Day it, read Quote Freddy, jones twenty 94 00:06:52,881 --> 00:06:55,841 Speaker 2: six Of earl And Johnny, key thirty six Of parkin 95 00:06:56,361 --> 00:06:59,321 Speaker 2: appeared Before Judge RICHARD. L proctor On monday and were 96 00:06:59,321 --> 00:07:02,561 Speaker 2: bound over To Cross County Circuit court to stand trial 97 00:07:02,721 --> 00:07:06,081 Speaker 2: on one count of capital. Murder the article goes on 98 00:07:06,161 --> 00:07:10,281 Speaker 2: to Say Sheriff Ronnie baldwin Said rinne page twenty two 99 00:07:10,441 --> 00:07:13,361 Speaker 2: of when was also arranged on a charge of hindering 100 00:07:13,401 --> 00:07:15,961 Speaker 2: apprehension of a suspect in connection with The smith. 101 00:07:16,001 --> 00:07:17,601 Speaker 3: Case she was. 102 00:07:17,561 --> 00:07:20,641 Speaker 2: Being held in The Cross county Jail monday on unrelated 103 00:07:20,721 --> 00:07:23,281 Speaker 2: charges when she was arrested in connection with the. 104 00:07:23,361 --> 00:07:24,121 Speaker 3: Murder end. 105 00:07:24,201 --> 00:07:30,081 Speaker 2: Quote so the newspaper brings up two male suspects and 106 00:07:30,121 --> 00:07:33,041 Speaker 2: one female who they believe were involved In Geneva smith's. 107 00:07:33,081 --> 00:07:37,641 Speaker 2: Murder the newspaper also talked to the, sheriff and the 108 00:07:37,801 --> 00:07:41,281 Speaker 2: article mentioned that the sheriff said that he had worked 109 00:07:41,281 --> 00:07:45,001 Speaker 2: with The Arkansas State police Investigator dale One. Arnold remember 110 00:07:45,081 --> 00:07:48,761 Speaker 2: that's the same investigator who also worked On Christina pipkin's. 111 00:07:48,801 --> 00:07:51,601 Speaker 3: Case the sheriff said that he And. 112 00:07:51,601 --> 00:07:54,721 Speaker 2: Dale arnold felt they finally had enough information to make 113 00:07:54,801 --> 00:07:58,881 Speaker 2: some arrest and the article said that all three of these, 114 00:07:58,921 --> 00:08:03,001 Speaker 2: Suspects Johnny, Key Freddie, jones And Irene, page had all 115 00:08:03,041 --> 00:08:05,561 Speaker 2: been interviewed by police back in nineteen ninety two When 116 00:08:05,601 --> 00:08:11,041 Speaker 2: Geneva smith originally went. Missing police seemed fairly confident that 117 00:08:11,081 --> 00:08:15,361 Speaker 2: they had a, case but then something. Happened apparently their 118 00:08:15,441 --> 00:08:19,241 Speaker 2: key witness had a change of. Heart the, Sheriff Ronnie, 119 00:08:19,241 --> 00:08:23,801 Speaker 2: baldwin later confirmed. This he told the newspaper the case 120 00:08:23,841 --> 00:08:29,761 Speaker 2: had fallen apart when that witness backed. Out So i'm 121 00:08:29,801 --> 00:08:33,361 Speaker 2: wondering about the woman who was. Arrested if she was 122 00:08:33,401 --> 00:08:35,881 Speaker 2: the witness and was twenty two years old in nineteen ninety, 123 00:08:35,961 --> 00:08:38,481 Speaker 2: nine that would mean that she would have been around 124 00:08:38,521 --> 00:08:41,121 Speaker 2: sixteen years, old just three years older. 125 00:08:40,961 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 3: Than geneva back When geneva was. 126 00:08:43,121 --> 00:08:47,121 Speaker 2: Killed so Now i'm wondering who was this, woman what 127 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 2: was her connection To Geneva? Smith and it's been years 128 00:08:51,001 --> 00:08:54,361 Speaker 2: since these suspects were questioned and later. Released is law 129 00:08:54,401 --> 00:08:57,481 Speaker 2: enforcement planning on building that case any? Further have they 130 00:08:57,521 --> 00:09:00,961 Speaker 2: developed any new, suspects do they have any new leads at? 131 00:09:00,961 --> 00:09:03,761 Speaker 2: All and if, not would they consider turning over this 132 00:09:03,841 --> 00:09:06,441 Speaker 2: case file and making it public like they have With 133 00:09:06,521 --> 00:09:10,401 Speaker 2: Christina pipkins's. CASE i am not sure what the decision 134 00:09:10,481 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 2: will be In Geneva smith's. CASE i do Know arkansas 135 00:09:13,841 --> 00:09:17,441 Speaker 2: has made new rules to classify cases as officially cold 136 00:09:17,681 --> 00:09:19,601 Speaker 2: when they've been unsolved for two years or. 137 00:09:19,601 --> 00:09:22,521 Speaker 3: More maybe they will release part of the case. 138 00:09:22,561 --> 00:09:25,881 Speaker 2: FILE i do hope they'll consider it because In christina's 139 00:09:25,921 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 2: case it has. 140 00:09:27,001 --> 00:09:29,041 Speaker 3: Helped i've only been. 141 00:09:28,921 --> 00:09:31,001 Speaker 2: Working on this case for a few, weeks and even 142 00:09:31,041 --> 00:09:34,561 Speaker 2: though it has been almost thirty years Since Christina pipkin 143 00:09:34,641 --> 00:09:37,241 Speaker 2: went missing and her body was, Found we've been able 144 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,241 Speaker 2: to find a lot of people who've never been interviewed 145 00:09:40,241 --> 00:09:42,761 Speaker 2: by the. Police we've also gotten a lot of names 146 00:09:42,801 --> 00:09:44,521 Speaker 2: out of the case file and we were able to 147 00:09:44,601 --> 00:09:45,241 Speaker 2: find a lot of. 148 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,801 Speaker 3: Them as a result of, that we are filling in the. 149 00:09:48,801 --> 00:09:51,441 Speaker 2: BLANKS i would love to be able to do the 150 00:09:51,481 --> 00:09:52,841 Speaker 2: same thing For Geneva smith's. 151 00:09:52,881 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 3: Case so if. 152 00:09:54,721 --> 00:09:58,601 Speaker 2: Someone out there knows someone who Knew Geneva, smith anyone 153 00:09:58,641 --> 00:10:01,761 Speaker 2: in her, family her, friends or anyone who saw, ANYTHING 154 00:10:02,041 --> 00:10:05,881 Speaker 2: i would love to hear from these. PEOPLE i did 155 00:10:05,921 --> 00:10:08,841 Speaker 2: some very preliminary online sleuthing to try and find the 156 00:10:08,881 --> 00:10:11,721 Speaker 2: people who were charged With geneva's murder and what happened to. 157 00:10:11,761 --> 00:10:16,361 Speaker 2: THEM i Found Freddie. Jones it wasn't too hard because 158 00:10:16,401 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 2: he's now in. Prison Freddie jones has a fairly long criminal, 159 00:10:20,321 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 2: record according to court. Records in twenty, seventeen he was 160 00:10:25,361 --> 00:10:28,721 Speaker 2: sentenced to forty years for aggravated robbery of A valero 161 00:10:28,881 --> 00:10:32,561 Speaker 2: gas station In. Fayetful he also got an additional five 162 00:10:32,641 --> 00:10:35,041 Speaker 2: years for carrying a firearm because he was a. Felon 163 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,321 Speaker 2: according to court, documents this length of, sentence which does 164 00:10:39,321 --> 00:10:42,321 Speaker 2: seem very, long was due to his status as an habitual. 165 00:10:42,361 --> 00:10:48,561 Speaker 2: Offender so let's go back to the newspaper article for a. 166 00:10:48,561 --> 00:10:50,481 Speaker 2: Minute the ONE i talked about at the top of the, 167 00:10:50,481 --> 00:10:54,001 Speaker 2: episode the one that talked about potential connections in these 168 00:10:54,081 --> 00:10:59,761 Speaker 2: child death. Cases the Reporter Rob johnson talked about sixteen 169 00:10:59,841 --> 00:11:03,001 Speaker 2: year Old Guardina, cross who was murdered in nineteen ninety. 170 00:11:03,041 --> 00:11:07,121 Speaker 2: Two guardina was sixteen years old and in tenth grade 171 00:11:07,161 --> 00:11:10,481 Speaker 2: At Wynn High school On october fourteenth in nineteen ninety, 172 00:11:10,521 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 2: two she disappeared that same day On More, road right 173 00:11:14,321 --> 00:11:17,961 Speaker 2: outside of when a guy was collecting. Cans when he 174 00:11:18,041 --> 00:11:21,481 Speaker 2: found her body on the side of the, Road guardina 175 00:11:21,601 --> 00:11:25,121 Speaker 2: was naked except for a Bra her skull had been 176 00:11:25,201 --> 00:11:29,161 Speaker 2: pierced and punctured with a small. Object police thought it 177 00:11:29,161 --> 00:11:32,201 Speaker 2: could be some type of, tool maybe something like a. 178 00:11:32,201 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 2: Screwdriver forensic testing later revealed that at the time of her, 179 00:11:36,481 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 2: Death guardina was around five months pregnant. 180 00:11:41,401 --> 00:11:42,481 Speaker 3: And then there were. 181 00:11:42,481 --> 00:11:45,321 Speaker 2: Crickets there was nothing more THAT i could find really 182 00:11:45,361 --> 00:11:49,361 Speaker 2: ever reported about this, case BUT i think the Reporter 183 00:11:49,521 --> 00:11:53,281 Speaker 2: Rob johnson got some crucial. Information he went to Interview 184 00:11:53,321 --> 00:11:57,881 Speaker 2: guardinia's great, Grandmother Hattie. Cross he found out That guardina 185 00:11:58,001 --> 00:12:01,401 Speaker 2: already had a two year old. Daughter that means That 186 00:12:01,921 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 2: guardania's daughter must have been born around the Time guardania 187 00:12:05,201 --> 00:12:08,961 Speaker 2: was around fourteen years. Old he was also the person 188 00:12:09,001 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 2: who reported that she was five months pregnant at the 189 00:12:11,201 --> 00:12:11,481 Speaker 2: time for. 190 00:12:11,601 --> 00:12:14,521 Speaker 3: Death, NOW i don't want to rush to. 191 00:12:14,601 --> 00:12:17,561 Speaker 2: Conclusions the killer could have been a, stranger this could 192 00:12:17,601 --> 00:12:20,801 Speaker 2: have been a random. Attack but we also know that, 193 00:12:21,001 --> 00:12:24,841 Speaker 2: sadly pregnancy can be one of the most dangerous times 194 00:12:24,881 --> 00:12:25,441 Speaker 2: of a woman's. 195 00:12:25,481 --> 00:12:26,881 Speaker 3: Life one of. 196 00:12:26,841 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 2: The leading cause of death of pregnant women In america is. 197 00:12:30,121 --> 00:12:33,401 Speaker 2: Homicide SO i want to know where that baby's father, 198 00:12:33,561 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 2: is if that person was ever, questioned maybe there was 199 00:12:38,201 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 2: someone who was not happy about her, pregnancy and these 200 00:12:40,681 --> 00:12:48,321 Speaker 2: are all things that we have to. Consider coming back 201 00:12:48,361 --> 00:12:51,121 Speaker 2: to The Christina pipkin, Case i've been going through the 202 00:12:51,121 --> 00:12:53,561 Speaker 2: case file and trying to reach out to people the police, 203 00:12:53,601 --> 00:12:58,441 Speaker 2: interviewed and WHEN i, did as you probably already, know 204 00:12:58,601 --> 00:13:01,761 Speaker 2: there were a lot of. Discrepancies not only THAT i 205 00:13:01,801 --> 00:13:04,401 Speaker 2: saw something in this Case i've never had happened before 206 00:13:04,441 --> 00:13:09,121 Speaker 2: in Anything i've ever. Investigated one of the biggest issues 207 00:13:09,161 --> 00:13:11,401 Speaker 2: we've had in trying to review this case file is 208 00:13:11,441 --> 00:13:14,801 Speaker 2: the fact that basically none of the interviews were. Transcribed 209 00:13:14,881 --> 00:13:18,601 Speaker 2: everything is just these, brief typed, reports so there are 210 00:13:18,601 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 2: a lot of mistakes in. Those i've seen errors made 211 00:13:22,201 --> 00:13:26,161 Speaker 2: in police reports, before But i've seen mistakes In christina's 212 00:13:26,161 --> 00:13:30,641 Speaker 2: case unlike Anything i've ever. Seen in our last, EPISODE 213 00:13:30,761 --> 00:13:34,561 Speaker 2: i talked To Donna. King now in the case, file 214 00:13:35,081 --> 00:13:37,841 Speaker 2: there is a police report where an investigator said he 215 00:13:37,961 --> 00:13:40,961 Speaker 2: spoke To Donna. King she told them that on the 216 00:13:41,041 --> 00:13:45,321 Speaker 2: Night Christina pipkin went, missing she Saw Charles cotton's, Wife Rebecca, 217 00:13:45,401 --> 00:13:47,641 Speaker 2: cotton walking on the side of the, road and That 218 00:13:47,761 --> 00:13:51,161 Speaker 2: Charles cotton was approaching her on a three. Wheeler this 219 00:13:51,321 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 2: was a very detailed description of what. Happened, apparently according to. 220 00:13:55,081 --> 00:14:00,401 Speaker 2: Police donna said she Observed Rebecca cotton, crying looking annoyed 221 00:14:00,441 --> 00:14:03,321 Speaker 2: At charles and not getting on the three. Wheeler Then 222 00:14:03,641 --> 00:14:06,281 Speaker 2: Charles cotton apparently left and came back in a. Vehicle 223 00:14:07,081 --> 00:14:10,241 Speaker 2: this was a few minutes, later and he Picked Rebecca 224 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:14,761 Speaker 2: cotton up and they left together in the. Car the 225 00:14:14,801 --> 00:14:19,201 Speaker 2: only problem Is Donna king said that this was absolutely 226 00:14:19,281 --> 00:14:22,001 Speaker 2: not what she said to the. Police she is insistent 227 00:14:22,081 --> 00:14:24,841 Speaker 2: that she never Saw Rebecca cotton on the Night Christina 228 00:14:24,881 --> 00:14:29,161 Speaker 2: pipkin went. Missing Donna king said that part of the 229 00:14:29,201 --> 00:14:32,641 Speaker 2: story was. Correct she was out of town that. Day 230 00:14:32,721 --> 00:14:34,881 Speaker 2: she and her husband had gone To, memphis but she 231 00:14:34,961 --> 00:14:36,841 Speaker 2: said as soon as she got back in, town she 232 00:14:36,921 --> 00:14:37,361 Speaker 2: met up with. 233 00:14:37,361 --> 00:14:37,801 Speaker 3: A friend of. 234 00:14:37,801 --> 00:14:41,121 Speaker 2: Hers the friend Of donna's who she met up with 235 00:14:41,641 --> 00:14:44,921 Speaker 2: is actually someone else we've spoken. To there were two 236 00:14:45,041 --> 00:14:48,121 Speaker 2: cashiers at The bearcat who we've talked to so. Far 237 00:14:48,961 --> 00:14:52,881 Speaker 2: the woman all Call cashier number one served the mysterious 238 00:14:52,881 --> 00:14:55,161 Speaker 2: stranger who came in at around five point forty. Five 239 00:14:55,241 --> 00:14:57,361 Speaker 2: she's the one who worked on the composite drawing with. 240 00:14:57,441 --> 00:15:01,601 Speaker 2: Police there was another, cashier we'll call Her cashier number 241 00:15:01,601 --> 00:15:05,441 Speaker 2: two now cashier. Too was working in the back section 242 00:15:05,521 --> 00:15:08,441 Speaker 2: of the store where the video rentals happened for most 243 00:15:08,441 --> 00:15:10,881 Speaker 2: of the, night but between seven and nine pm she 244 00:15:11,081 --> 00:15:15,481 Speaker 2: worked the main. Register After donna came back to, town 245 00:15:15,761 --> 00:15:20,001 Speaker 2: she met up With cashier number. Two, together they rode 246 00:15:20,041 --> 00:15:23,441 Speaker 2: around and looked For Christina, pipkin and they both confirmed 247 00:15:23,481 --> 00:15:26,761 Speaker 2: each other's. Stories they said they never Saw Rebecca cotton that. 248 00:15:26,881 --> 00:15:30,801 Speaker 2: Night WHEN i Asked donna what she thinks, happened she 249 00:15:30,961 --> 00:15:34,201 Speaker 2: believes that maybe the police officers got her story mixed 250 00:15:34,281 --> 00:15:40,441 Speaker 2: up with someone. Else's this sounds, crazy but it's actually 251 00:15:40,441 --> 00:15:44,201 Speaker 2: not that hard to, believe because even more to disturbing 252 00:15:44,281 --> 00:15:47,201 Speaker 2: than the wrong, Information donna, said the police included in 253 00:15:47,241 --> 00:15:51,081 Speaker 2: that report was what she said they left. Out donna 254 00:15:51,161 --> 00:15:54,481 Speaker 2: said that the next day After christina went, missing she 255 00:15:54,681 --> 00:15:58,281 Speaker 2: saw a stranger in a brown car near the area 256 00:15:58,401 --> 00:16:02,321 Speaker 2: Where christina's body was. Found she is adamant she said 257 00:16:02,361 --> 00:16:04,961 Speaker 2: she described that person and that vehicle to the, Police 258 00:16:05,481 --> 00:16:08,481 Speaker 2: but there's no record of that brown car anywhere in 259 00:16:08,521 --> 00:16:13,081 Speaker 2: the case. File so the question is where did the 260 00:16:13,121 --> 00:16:16,401 Speaker 2: police get the information about the person who supposedly Saw 261 00:16:16,441 --> 00:16:18,401 Speaker 2: Rebecca cotton on the side of the road that, Night 262 00:16:19,081 --> 00:16:22,441 Speaker 2: and if that person Wasn't Donna, king who was. It 263 00:16:32,161 --> 00:16:35,561 Speaker 2: in the last, episode we talked about a couple of. 264 00:16:35,441 --> 00:16:39,121 Speaker 3: The names who keep coming up in this, case AND 265 00:16:39,161 --> 00:16:39,961 Speaker 3: i want to give you all an. 266 00:16:40,001 --> 00:16:43,441 Speaker 2: Update we have gotten more information about a friend Of Robbie, 267 00:16:43,441 --> 00:16:47,281 Speaker 2: tuff the man Named, jackie the person WHO i referred 268 00:16:47,281 --> 00:16:49,441 Speaker 2: to As jackie Question mark in last week's. 269 00:16:49,441 --> 00:16:52,641 Speaker 3: Episode because we didn't know his last, name we were 270 00:16:52,801 --> 00:16:53,881 Speaker 3: able to get his last. 271 00:16:53,921 --> 00:16:57,241 Speaker 2: Name i've been exchanging messages with a couple of different 272 00:16:57,281 --> 00:17:00,961 Speaker 2: young women who told me That jackie, was in their, 273 00:17:01,001 --> 00:17:03,801 Speaker 2: words creepy and that he made her and several other 274 00:17:03,881 --> 00:17:08,041 Speaker 2: young women very. UNCOMFORTABLE i wanted to Track jackie. DOWN 275 00:17:08,521 --> 00:17:11,281 Speaker 2: i wanted to ask him questions About Robbie tubbs. 276 00:17:11,161 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 3: And about what went on around the time When christina went. 277 00:17:13,681 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 2: MISSING i wanted to know Word jackie And robbie in 278 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 2: or Near Hickory ridge that, day BUT i found out 279 00:17:21,201 --> 00:17:24,321 Speaker 2: That jackie passed away in two thousand and. Eight, sadly 280 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:33,761 Speaker 2: this is another dead. End the second cashier at The 281 00:17:33,761 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 2: bearcat who we talked to in the last, episode told 282 00:17:37,481 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 2: us about the fear and panic that broke out in 283 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 2: the town After christina went. 284 00:17:42,161 --> 00:17:45,961 Speaker 3: Missing she described what the atmosphere was like the next. 285 00:17:46,041 --> 00:17:51,841 Speaker 4: Day i'm at work at twelve At bearcat and it 286 00:17:51,921 --> 00:17:58,801 Speaker 4: was just, horrific, uh seeing it was it was horrific 287 00:17:58,921 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 4: and how awesome at the sun time that so many 288 00:18:06,681 --> 00:18:10,681 Speaker 4: people we're, There we're on the, street we're in the parking, 289 00:18:10,761 --> 00:18:13,681 Speaker 4: lot we're you, know gathered together to try to you, 290 00:18:13,721 --> 00:18:17,041 Speaker 4: know set up. Teams you, know the community really came. 291 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,241 Speaker 3: Together and she noticed the same thing THAT i. 292 00:18:20,281 --> 00:18:23,361 Speaker 2: Noticed she noticed That Charles cotton seemed to have been 293 00:18:23,481 --> 00:18:26,881 Speaker 2: very involved in the search For Christina. Pipkins she also 294 00:18:26,961 --> 00:18:29,721 Speaker 2: found it out she said he wasn't someone who appeared 295 00:18:29,721 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 2: to know the family, well And james had said he 296 00:18:33,801 --> 00:18:37,161 Speaker 2: just Met Charles cotton through his neighbors she. 297 00:18:37,361 --> 00:18:40,481 Speaker 4: MAY i, MEAN i, thought is he really trying to 298 00:18:40,521 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 4: make an? Incursion and it was just like glaved in the, 299 00:18:44,641 --> 00:18:45,401 Speaker 4: family it seem. 300 00:18:45,641 --> 00:18:46,681 Speaker 1: Like AND. 301 00:18:48,201 --> 00:18:51,641 Speaker 4: I was just, like you, know of course we were 302 00:18:51,641 --> 00:18:55,441 Speaker 4: all wanting to search and look, absolutely. 303 00:18:56,321 --> 00:19:01,361 Speaker 5: BUT i mean THEN i you, know came. Down there 304 00:19:01,401 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 5: was a lot of, pubblists AND i just put it 305 00:19:04,881 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 5: as you, know he was just want attention AND i didn't. 306 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,441 Speaker 4: Really you, know thinkko much more about. 307 00:19:10,441 --> 00:19:16,121 Speaker 2: It with help from some sources in, TOWN i have 308 00:19:16,281 --> 00:19:19,921 Speaker 2: mapped out the rest Of christina's neighborhood and there are 309 00:19:20,041 --> 00:19:24,321 Speaker 2: other people WHO i would like to. LOCATE i have 310 00:19:24,561 --> 00:19:27,521 Speaker 2: verified through multiple sources who were living in the neighborhood 311 00:19:27,561 --> 00:19:30,521 Speaker 2: at the, time That Charles cotton and his family, were 312 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,241 Speaker 2: contrary to what his Wife rebecca told the, police living 313 00:19:34,281 --> 00:19:36,201 Speaker 2: in a house just a couple of doors down from The. 314 00:19:36,201 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 2: Pipkins there was also another young family. There they lived 315 00:19:42,161 --> 00:19:45,001 Speaker 2: in a, Trailer they had several, children and according to the, 316 00:19:45,041 --> 00:19:48,561 Speaker 2: neighbors they were only there for a few. Months apparently 317 00:19:48,601 --> 00:19:51,561 Speaker 2: the family was from Around, bedeville the area near Where 318 00:19:51,641 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 2: christina's body was. Found now people say this family was 319 00:19:55,681 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 2: not around for a long time they weren't sure of 320 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,481 Speaker 2: the exact. Dates BUT i would like to know who 321 00:20:00,481 --> 00:20:02,201 Speaker 2: those people, were AND i would like to talk to 322 00:20:02,241 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 2: them because if they left abruptly After christina went, missing 323 00:20:06,801 --> 00:20:09,721 Speaker 2: that's something we need to check. Out we know from 324 00:20:09,761 --> 00:20:12,481 Speaker 2: past cases that people who show up in town and 325 00:20:12,601 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 2: leave shortly after a suspicious death need to be thoroughly. 326 00:20:15,681 --> 00:20:18,121 Speaker 3: Vetted AND i want. 327 00:20:17,961 --> 00:20:20,721 Speaker 2: To go back and ask something that may seem, Obvious 328 00:20:21,321 --> 00:20:24,641 Speaker 2: but since part of this is investigating the investigation, itself 329 00:20:25,201 --> 00:20:26,201 Speaker 2: we have to double check. 330 00:20:26,241 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 3: Everything we need to. 331 00:20:28,161 --> 00:20:32,681 Speaker 2: Know how can we be sure That Christina pipkin drowned 332 00:20:33,361 --> 00:20:36,601 Speaker 2: and how can we be sure that it was definitely 333 00:20:36,801 --> 00:20:44,561 Speaker 2: not an accidental. DROWNING i want to take a step 334 00:20:44,561 --> 00:20:46,241 Speaker 2: back for a, minute because there's been a lot of 335 00:20:46,281 --> 00:20:49,721 Speaker 2: discussion During christina's case about what we can learn from 336 00:20:49,721 --> 00:20:52,360 Speaker 2: the limited facts we have without an autopsy. 337 00:20:52,401 --> 00:20:55,001 Speaker 3: Report so let's talk about. 338 00:20:55,080 --> 00:21:00,121 Speaker 2: Drowning according to report ON Nbc, news deaths by drowning 339 00:21:00,161 --> 00:21:03,561 Speaker 2: are super. Challenging they're among the hardest for investigators to. 340 00:21:03,641 --> 00:21:07,241 Speaker 2: Prove the way that medical examiners figure out that a 341 00:21:07,321 --> 00:21:10,241 Speaker 2: death is by drowning is basically by the process of, 342 00:21:10,281 --> 00:21:13,161 Speaker 2: elimination they have to rule out everything. 343 00:21:13,201 --> 00:21:18,081 Speaker 3: ELSE a lot of children drown in The United states every. 344 00:21:18,161 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 2: Year according to a twenty twenty three article In The New, 345 00:21:21,481 --> 00:21:24,721 Speaker 2: yorker The centers For Disease control And prevention has listed 346 00:21:24,761 --> 00:21:27,441 Speaker 2: drowning as the number one cause of death for young, 347 00:21:27,521 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 2: children which they define is age one to, four And 348 00:21:31,641 --> 00:21:34,761 Speaker 2: arkansas has one of the highest rates of childhood drowning 349 00:21:34,801 --> 00:21:37,561 Speaker 2: in the, country according to a study done By Quote, 350 00:21:37,561 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 2: wizard the third highest in the. Nation between twenty eighteen 351 00:21:41,881 --> 00:21:45,281 Speaker 2: and twenty, twenty that were twenty five fatal drownings In. 352 00:21:45,361 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 2: Arkansas thirteen of those were children under the age of. 353 00:21:49,201 --> 00:21:54,441 Speaker 2: Five so how do we know if a body found 354 00:21:54,441 --> 00:21:58,201 Speaker 2: in water did drown and if that drowning was intentional or? 355 00:21:58,241 --> 00:22:02,360 Speaker 2: Accidental in, water bodies tend to sink first and then 356 00:22:02,441 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 2: rise to the surface in, warm shallow water like At 357 00:22:05,681 --> 00:22:09,721 Speaker 2: Cawlake ditch as gases in the body accumulated from the decomposition. 358 00:22:09,801 --> 00:22:14,761 Speaker 2: Process this would have taken around seventy two. Hours christina's 359 00:22:14,801 --> 00:22:18,841 Speaker 2: body was found three days after she went. Missing water 360 00:22:19,001 --> 00:22:21,401 Speaker 2: investigations have come a long way in the past three. 361 00:22:21,441 --> 00:22:26,561 Speaker 2: Decades now there are training seminars for investigators who are 362 00:22:26,601 --> 00:22:30,761 Speaker 2: processing homicides that involve a body of. Water there are 363 00:22:30,801 --> 00:22:33,601 Speaker 2: a few different types of scenarios that can occur. Here 364 00:22:34,161 --> 00:22:36,441 Speaker 2: you have people who are killed on land and then 365 00:22:36,521 --> 00:22:38,561 Speaker 2: dumped into the water as they are dead or, dying 366 00:22:39,161 --> 00:22:43,161 Speaker 2: people who actually drowned in the body of, water and accidental. 367 00:22:43,241 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 2: Drownings they all have some distinctive. Characteristics we know That 368 00:22:47,721 --> 00:22:51,201 Speaker 2: christina could have accidentally drowned because she couldn't. Swim that 369 00:22:51,241 --> 00:22:55,841 Speaker 2: would have made. Sense but the first question homicide investigators 370 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,921 Speaker 2: are told to ask is if the victim's location makes, 371 00:22:58,961 --> 00:23:01,921 Speaker 2: sense and In christina's, case it did. Not it made 372 00:23:02,041 --> 00:23:04,561 Speaker 2: zero sense that she would suddenly be miles away from 373 00:23:04,601 --> 00:23:07,521 Speaker 2: home right before dark when she had been hanging around 374 00:23:07,961 --> 00:23:12,201 Speaker 2: very close to her house all. Day but even though 375 00:23:12,321 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 2: crime scene investigation techniques are, improving killers can still have 376 00:23:17,641 --> 00:23:23,921 Speaker 2: a lot of evidence in pools of dirty. WATER i 377 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,961 Speaker 2: use a textbook for all of my. INVESTIGATIONS i carry 378 00:23:26,961 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 2: it around everywhere with, me so at this point it's 379 00:23:29,281 --> 00:23:33,921 Speaker 2: kind of falling. Apart but it's called practical Homicide. Investigations 380 00:23:33,961 --> 00:23:37,241 Speaker 2: i've talked about it. Before it's by a FORMER nypd 381 00:23:37,321 --> 00:23:42,321 Speaker 2: homicide detective Named vernon. Debirth it's become the textbook that 382 00:23:42,721 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 2: a lot of police departs and used to train their. 383 00:23:44,681 --> 00:23:50,521 Speaker 2: Detectives in this, book he describes a lot of staged 384 00:23:50,601 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 2: crime scenes involving, drowning and he has a lot of 385 00:23:52,881 --> 00:23:56,961 Speaker 2: examples summer cases where the victim was drowned elsewhere like a, 386 00:23:57,001 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 2: bathtub and then taken and dumped into the body of. Water, 387 00:24:00,521 --> 00:24:03,001 Speaker 2: remember a lot of people thought this was what could 388 00:24:03,041 --> 00:24:06,361 Speaker 2: have happened To Christina. Pipkin but we know the evidence 389 00:24:06,401 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 2: In christina's case indicates the mud and water found In 390 00:24:09,681 --> 00:24:13,161 Speaker 2: christina's lungs did match the water in Cal Lake. Ditch 391 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 2: i've also talked to a family member and this person 392 00:24:16,801 --> 00:24:19,281 Speaker 2: is attempting to Access christina's autopsy. 393 00:24:19,321 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 3: REPORT i hope that we can get. 394 00:24:22,041 --> 00:24:24,481 Speaker 2: Access to that because there are a lot of THINGS 395 00:24:24,481 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 2: i think we could potentially. Learn among the QUESTIONS i 396 00:24:28,481 --> 00:24:30,721 Speaker 2: have are THESE i want to know if there was 397 00:24:30,801 --> 00:24:35,801 Speaker 2: any white foam. Present it's called haemorrhagic edema. Fluid this 398 00:24:35,921 --> 00:24:38,961 Speaker 2: foam forms as a result of mucus from the throat 399 00:24:39,281 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 2: mixing with water and. Blood it's a major indication the 400 00:24:42,881 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 2: person may have, drowned and we don't know from Doctor 401 00:24:45,921 --> 00:24:48,961 Speaker 2: Fawmi malik the Medical examiner's. Report if that was, present 402 00:24:50,241 --> 00:24:52,441 Speaker 2: we do. Know Doctor malick said there were no signs of. 403 00:24:52,481 --> 00:24:55,640 Speaker 2: Violence he said he didn't find signs of a, struggle no, 404 00:24:55,761 --> 00:25:00,321 Speaker 2: bruising no obvious signs of, strangulation nothing to, show for, 405 00:25:00,401 --> 00:25:02,441 Speaker 2: example that someone held her head under water. 406 00:25:02,561 --> 00:25:06,601 Speaker 3: Forcibly but maybe there are other clues in the, report. 407 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 2: Something that could tell us if she had less obvious 408 00:25:08,721 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 2: signs like the broken blood, vessels that could be indicative of. Strangulation, 409 00:25:14,561 --> 00:25:17,641 Speaker 2: ALSO i would love to know Did christina have anything 410 00:25:17,681 --> 00:25:20,761 Speaker 2: in her? Hands this could tell us if she was 411 00:25:21,121 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 2: grabbing at, something for, example when she was in the. 412 00:25:23,641 --> 00:25:28,001 Speaker 2: Water if, not this could indicate she was unconscious when 413 00:25:28,041 --> 00:25:28,521 Speaker 2: she went into the. 414 00:25:28,561 --> 00:25:32,521 Speaker 3: Water AND i know that it's been a long, time 415 00:25:32,561 --> 00:25:32,921 Speaker 3: but don't. 416 00:25:32,921 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 2: Forget sometimes major breakthroughs can be made by a second, 417 00:25:36,921 --> 00:25:37,961 Speaker 2: look even decades. 418 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 3: Later THE nbc report had an. 419 00:25:40,641 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 2: Example the news channel talked to a case From illinois 420 00:25:45,161 --> 00:25:47,481 Speaker 2: where a woman had drowned in a bathtub and basically 421 00:25:47,561 --> 00:25:50,601 Speaker 2: there was no sign of a struggle or forced. Entry at, 422 00:25:50,601 --> 00:25:54,360 Speaker 2: first it was ruled an, accident but eventually investigators brought 423 00:25:54,361 --> 00:25:57,761 Speaker 2: a new pathologist in and that person found bruises on 424 00:25:57,801 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 2: the victim's, elbows bruises that forensic testing had. Missed, later 425 00:26:02,801 --> 00:26:06,360 Speaker 2: police focused on this woman's. Husband they were able to 426 00:26:06,361 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 2: find insurance policies that the husband had taken out and his. 427 00:26:09,121 --> 00:26:13,561 Speaker 2: Wife they eventually found a, motive but they wouldn't have 428 00:26:13,601 --> 00:26:15,961 Speaker 2: even looked for that motive if they had not first 429 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,481 Speaker 2: gone back over the. Forensics this is What i'm trying to, 430 00:26:19,481 --> 00:26:22,321 Speaker 2: do both with the autopsy report and with the case. 431 00:26:22,361 --> 00:26:25,921 Speaker 2: File but, again because the police reports were so, Vague 432 00:26:26,401 --> 00:26:30,801 Speaker 2: i've been really struggling with being able to verify concrete 433 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,041 Speaker 2: times in any part of this. 434 00:26:32,121 --> 00:26:35,681 Speaker 3: Report which brings me back to the very beginning of the. 435 00:26:35,721 --> 00:26:38,561 Speaker 2: Case one of the only things that we have a 436 00:26:38,681 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 2: time for a definite time is that. Movie And i've 437 00:26:41,961 --> 00:26:44,761 Speaker 2: been thinking about that movie That Jane pipkin was watching 438 00:26:44,881 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 2: since this case. Started In james's, statement he said On 439 00:26:51,521 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 2: Saturday may, fourth he said that he was taping the 440 00:26:55,921 --> 00:26:58,241 Speaker 2: Movie The hunt For Red october and he was starting 441 00:26:58,241 --> 00:27:00,961 Speaker 2: to watch it while it, taped and that during that 442 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,081 Speaker 2: movie he became concerned That christina had not come, home 443 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:08,481 Speaker 2: and that's when he started looking for. Her let's take 444 00:27:08,521 --> 00:27:11,961 Speaker 2: a step back let's track everyone who said they Saw 445 00:27:12,041 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 2: Christina pipkin for sure that, day at least according to 446 00:27:14,921 --> 00:27:18,521 Speaker 2: the police reports in the Case faul after the family 447 00:27:18,561 --> 00:27:21,521 Speaker 2: came back from their, Errands Christina pipkin was at her 448 00:27:21,521 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 2: home On Doty street by round four. Pm that's when The, 449 00:27:25,241 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 2: fords the neighbors whose yard backed up to The pipkin, 450 00:27:27,961 --> 00:27:32,241 Speaker 2: house Saw christina playing out in her. Backyard shortly after, 451 00:27:32,281 --> 00:27:35,201 Speaker 2: That christina left the house to sell. Jewelry she had 452 00:27:35,201 --> 00:27:37,561 Speaker 2: her flyer showing the different types of jewelry people could 453 00:27:37,561 --> 00:27:41,641 Speaker 2: buy with. Her that's around When Elsie, lyles The pipkins 454 00:27:41,721 --> 00:27:44,561 Speaker 2: neighbor and the person who sometimes based he Sat, christina 455 00:27:44,761 --> 00:27:47,721 Speaker 2: Saw christina and gave her a pickle as a. Snack 456 00:27:48,201 --> 00:27:50,881 Speaker 2: christina ate the pickle and she Left elsie's, house Telling 457 00:27:50,881 --> 00:27:54,441 Speaker 2: elsie she'd be back for. Dinner elsie Said christina never 458 00:27:54,481 --> 00:28:00,161 Speaker 2: showed after Leaving. Elsie's during that, Afternoon christina was walking 459 00:28:00,161 --> 00:28:02,120 Speaker 2: around the area around the Bear cat in the. Bank, 460 00:28:02,761 --> 00:28:05,481 Speaker 2: again this is a very small, area but a lot 461 00:28:05,521 --> 00:28:08,201 Speaker 2: of people were coming through the main drag around. Then 462 00:28:08,721 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 2: because if you want to get cigarettes or, snacks the 463 00:28:10,641 --> 00:28:13,561 Speaker 2: bear cat was pretty much the only game in. Town 464 00:28:13,921 --> 00:28:17,081 Speaker 2: we know that around five forty five, pm the first 465 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,561 Speaker 2: cashier we spoke, to the one who was working the 466 00:28:19,601 --> 00:28:22,401 Speaker 2: register for most of the, day said she saw the, 467 00:28:22,441 --> 00:28:25,121 Speaker 2: stranger the one who came into the store and looked 468 00:28:25,121 --> 00:28:28,281 Speaker 2: a little Like Richard, gear the guy she later identified 469 00:28:28,321 --> 00:28:29,041 Speaker 2: in a composite. 470 00:28:29,041 --> 00:28:31,641 Speaker 3: Photo she said that he came in to buy a 471 00:28:31,721 --> 00:28:32,441 Speaker 3: pack Of Warboro. 472 00:28:32,561 --> 00:28:36,481 Speaker 2: Reds he parked his, car a brown, sedan not, blue 473 00:28:36,521 --> 00:28:39,001 Speaker 2: as the police wrote in their, report way up on the. 474 00:28:39,041 --> 00:28:41,841 Speaker 3: Sidewalk then he got in his car and. 475 00:28:41,921 --> 00:28:45,401 Speaker 2: Left the cashier said the stranger came and went just 476 00:28:45,441 --> 00:28:48,321 Speaker 2: a few minutes After christina and some other kids were 477 00:28:48,321 --> 00:28:53,561 Speaker 2: walking through milling around The bearcat grocery. Store christina was 478 00:28:53,601 --> 00:28:56,481 Speaker 2: going to and from the area right around her. House 479 00:28:57,281 --> 00:29:00,681 Speaker 2: at around five, Thirty Ricky dawson and his Friend James, 480 00:29:00,681 --> 00:29:04,481 Speaker 2: bashers who were next door at The moor's, house Saw 481 00:29:04,601 --> 00:29:08,241 Speaker 2: christina on the porch of her. House by around six, 482 00:29:08,441 --> 00:29:11,241 Speaker 2: Thirty christina was back at the Bear. Cat that's when 483 00:29:11,281 --> 00:29:14,561 Speaker 2: her math, Teacher Miss, lamb told police that she Saw 484 00:29:14,681 --> 00:29:19,081 Speaker 2: christina and briefly talked to her sometime before, dark which 485 00:29:19,121 --> 00:29:22,361 Speaker 2: was around eight. Pm the other, cashier cashier number, two 486 00:29:23,001 --> 00:29:26,081 Speaker 2: the cashier we talked, to who police never, interviewed said 487 00:29:26,121 --> 00:29:29,041 Speaker 2: she Saw christina in the. Store she said she knew 488 00:29:29,081 --> 00:29:32,121 Speaker 2: for sure this happened before. Dark she remembered the street 489 00:29:32,161 --> 00:29:40,201 Speaker 2: lights were not on. Yet Then christina. Left, Frida christina's, 490 00:29:40,201 --> 00:29:42,761 Speaker 2: mom told police she went to The bearcat's store at 491 00:29:42,761 --> 00:29:46,081 Speaker 2: around seven thirty. Pm she bought some, groceries hung around 492 00:29:46,121 --> 00:29:47,081 Speaker 2: for a few, minutes. 493 00:29:46,801 --> 00:29:50,401 Speaker 3: And then went back. Home after she got home and 494 00:29:50,401 --> 00:29:51,001 Speaker 3: started cooking. 495 00:29:51,041 --> 00:29:54,201 Speaker 2: Dinner this is When James pipkin said they started watching 496 00:29:54,281 --> 00:29:59,721 Speaker 2: the Movie The hunt For Red. October they got worried 497 00:29:59,721 --> 00:30:03,041 Speaker 2: That christina hadn't come, home And freda Sent christina's Brother 498 00:30:03,081 --> 00:30:05,321 Speaker 2: adam out to look for. Her When adam came back 499 00:30:05,361 --> 00:30:08,281 Speaker 2: and said he hadn't seen, Her frida left the house 500 00:30:08,321 --> 00:30:10,761 Speaker 2: to look for. Her but here's where it gets, interesting 501 00:30:10,801 --> 00:30:14,321 Speaker 2: Because james says in the police report, QUOTE i got 502 00:30:14,321 --> 00:30:17,121 Speaker 2: THE vcr ready to Tape The hunt For Red. October 503 00:30:17,761 --> 00:30:20,361 Speaker 2: the movie came on AND i started taping. IT i 504 00:30:20,401 --> 00:30:22,881 Speaker 2: started getting worried That christina had not come home, yet 505 00:30:23,081 --> 00:30:24,121 Speaker 2: so we started looking for. 506 00:30:24,161 --> 00:30:26,161 Speaker 3: Her this was around eight. Pm end. 507 00:30:26,241 --> 00:30:32,201 Speaker 2: Quote this was one concrete time that we could sort 508 00:30:32,201 --> 00:30:35,081 Speaker 2: of frame everything else, Around SO i got a little 509 00:30:35,121 --> 00:30:39,641 Speaker 2: obsessed when figuring out what time this movie. Aired back 510 00:30:39,641 --> 00:30:44,161 Speaker 2: in the, nineties before streaming SERVICES hbo And, cinemac movies 511 00:30:44,201 --> 00:30:47,521 Speaker 2: aired on a national. Schedule it was broken into different time, 512 00:30:47,601 --> 00:30:50,641 Speaker 2: zones but basically it was exactly the same air date 513 00:30:50,681 --> 00:30:52,801 Speaker 2: around the, country so we should be able to verify. 514 00:30:52,841 --> 00:30:55,001 Speaker 3: That there's just one. 515 00:30:55,041 --> 00:30:59,161 Speaker 2: Problem WHEN i found the commercial for the movie on 516 00:30:59,401 --> 00:31:03,561 Speaker 2: YouTube and an old Guide Red, OCTOBER i found out 517 00:31:04,121 --> 00:31:07,401 Speaker 2: that The hunt For Red october aired in that region 518 00:31:07,561 --> 00:31:11,041 Speaker 2: On friday, night Not, saturday the Day christina went. Missing 519 00:31:12,041 --> 00:31:15,441 Speaker 2: so if that's, True james could not have been taping 520 00:31:15,441 --> 00:31:18,601 Speaker 2: The hunt For Red october On saturday night that movie 521 00:31:18,641 --> 00:31:19,481 Speaker 2: aired On friday. 522 00:31:19,561 --> 00:31:22,001 Speaker 3: Night he might have. 523 00:31:22,081 --> 00:31:25,161 Speaker 2: Misspoken he could have said he'd previously taped the movie 524 00:31:25,161 --> 00:31:26,001 Speaker 2: and was watching it On. 525 00:31:26,041 --> 00:31:29,601 Speaker 3: Saturday maybe the police were, Wrong but in that police. 526 00:31:29,281 --> 00:31:32,561 Speaker 2: Statement he said a couple of times he was taping the, 527 00:31:32,561 --> 00:31:35,801 Speaker 2: movies setting THE vcr to tape it that. Night he 528 00:31:35,921 --> 00:31:38,321 Speaker 2: seemed to say he was watching the movie live as it. Aired, 529 00:31:40,521 --> 00:31:43,401 Speaker 2: now maybe he's Remembering friday night instead Of saturday. Night 530 00:31:43,441 --> 00:31:47,521 Speaker 2: getting mixed up. Again police did not Interview james for several. 531 00:31:47,601 --> 00:31:51,001 Speaker 2: Days After christina went. Missing BUT i do wonder AND 532 00:31:51,041 --> 00:32:01,321 Speaker 2: i would love to clear up that. Discrepancy frida went 533 00:32:01,361 --> 00:32:04,001 Speaker 2: into The bearcat store right before nine pm that, night 534 00:32:04,761 --> 00:32:07,681 Speaker 2: and the second cashier who we heard from earlier said 535 00:32:07,721 --> 00:32:12,881 Speaker 2: she vividly Remembers christina's mother walking into the store crying 536 00:32:12,961 --> 00:32:14,121 Speaker 2: and saying she couldn't find her. 537 00:32:14,201 --> 00:32:19,521 Speaker 4: Daughter and then Missus pipton came. In she was crying 538 00:32:19,721 --> 00:32:22,601 Speaker 4: and we, said, well we already pretty much set the 539 00:32:22,641 --> 00:32:26,081 Speaker 4: registers down or they'll be glad to and, said, NO 540 00:32:26,121 --> 00:32:27,161 Speaker 4: i just need to use the pay. 541 00:32:27,161 --> 00:32:28,001 Speaker 1: Phone the pay. 542 00:32:27,801 --> 00:32:30,801 Speaker 4: Phone was like when you walk in the, door though 543 00:32:31,001 --> 00:32:33,361 Speaker 4: you would make a, right direct, right and it was 544 00:32:33,401 --> 00:32:35,481 Speaker 4: on the. Wall there was a, window and then there 545 00:32:35,521 --> 00:32:37,561 Speaker 4: was the pay, phone and then it started with the. 546 00:32:38,441 --> 00:32:41,721 Speaker 5: Drinks and she ran to the phone. 547 00:32:41,481 --> 00:32:45,361 Speaker 4: And she called the police and she didn't Really that's 548 00:32:45,361 --> 00:32:48,361 Speaker 4: when we heard or say my little girl's. MISSING i was, like, 549 00:32:48,441 --> 00:32:52,761 Speaker 4: oh Love, god you know we saw her, just you, 550 00:32:52,801 --> 00:32:57,321 Speaker 4: know a couple of hours. Ago AND i don't know 551 00:32:57,361 --> 00:33:00,041 Speaker 4: why no one ever questioned. Me, ever at the, TIME 552 00:33:00,121 --> 00:33:02,241 Speaker 4: i kept thanking Mister arnold would come and talk to. 553 00:33:02,321 --> 00:33:03,641 Speaker 4: They no one ever questioned. 554 00:33:03,641 --> 00:33:08,521 Speaker 2: ME i find it shocking that there was no police 555 00:33:08,561 --> 00:33:11,641 Speaker 2: interview with this, cashier this person who was one of 556 00:33:11,721 --> 00:33:15,081 Speaker 2: the last people to See christina. Alive there's also no 557 00:33:15,281 --> 00:33:18,881 Speaker 2: interview with the other. Cashier the police report just said 558 00:33:18,921 --> 00:33:20,401 Speaker 2: he had nothing of substance to offer the. 559 00:33:20,441 --> 00:33:23,801 Speaker 3: Investigation BUT i disagree with. 560 00:33:23,841 --> 00:33:26,841 Speaker 2: THAT i think he could have seen something extremely, important 561 00:33:26,881 --> 00:33:28,721 Speaker 2: even if he didn't realize what he was seeing at the, 562 00:33:28,761 --> 00:33:30,881 Speaker 2: Time and it's a shame we don't have a longer 563 00:33:30,921 --> 00:33:35,521 Speaker 2: interview with. Him so where do we go from? Here 564 00:33:36,441 --> 00:33:38,481 Speaker 2: there's still a lot of people who need to be 565 00:33:38,561 --> 00:33:42,481 Speaker 2: checked out. Further after speaking To cashier number, one it 566 00:33:42,561 --> 00:33:45,521 Speaker 2: seems very plausible That Robbie tubbs could have been In 567 00:33:45,601 --> 00:33:49,081 Speaker 2: Hickory ridge that. AFTERNOON a family member confirmed to me 568 00:33:49,121 --> 00:33:52,241 Speaker 2: That robbie does Smoke marlborough. Reds we know that he 569 00:33:52,361 --> 00:33:55,081 Speaker 2: drove a brown, car a sedan that matched the description 570 00:33:55,201 --> 00:34:00,201 Speaker 2: of the one the cashier saw at the, time and most, 571 00:34:00,241 --> 00:34:04,161 Speaker 2: crucially the cashier felt strongly that the photo Of robbie's 572 00:34:04,201 --> 00:34:06,721 Speaker 2: she saw from back in the day looked like the 573 00:34:06,761 --> 00:34:10,561 Speaker 2: composite drawing that she did with the. Police Robbie tubbs 574 00:34:10,601 --> 00:34:12,361 Speaker 2: could have been the stranger who came into the Bear 575 00:34:12,401 --> 00:34:15,601 Speaker 2: cat that, night but that's not enough for a DEFINITE. 576 00:34:15,601 --> 00:34:18,721 Speaker 2: Id and even if it, was even If Robbie tubbs was, 577 00:34:18,761 --> 00:34:21,481 Speaker 2: there this is not proof that he did anything. 578 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 3: WRONG i want to be very clear about. 579 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 2: That he absolutely could have been in that store for 580 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,801 Speaker 2: totally innocent. Reasons we know that he had some ties 581 00:34:29,841 --> 00:34:32,681 Speaker 2: to the. Area he had his Friend, jackie who he 582 00:34:32,721 --> 00:34:35,881 Speaker 2: went shelling. With when he drove through, there he would 583 00:34:35,881 --> 00:34:38,681 Speaker 2: often drop him In, waldenburg which is Near Hickory. Ridge 584 00:34:39,401 --> 00:34:42,721 Speaker 2: at the, Time robbie and his Wife sandra lived Near, Pocahontas, 585 00:34:42,801 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 2: arkansas and at the Time robbie had a girlfriend Named. 586 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 3: Janetta we've talked about that. 587 00:34:47,161 --> 00:34:51,801 Speaker 2: Before the route From pocahontas to Where robbie went shelling 588 00:34:51,881 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 2: passed right Through Hickory. Ridge there's a root that would 589 00:34:55,601 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 2: go right near his girlfriend's place and near the bear 590 00:34:58,201 --> 00:35:01,361 Speaker 2: Cat Robbie tubb, smoked and there are not that many 591 00:35:01,401 --> 00:35:05,161 Speaker 2: places to make a pit stop and buy. CIGARETTES i 592 00:35:05,201 --> 00:35:08,921 Speaker 2: also wondered about the. Evidence we've already talked a lot 593 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,601 Speaker 2: about everything that happened with the, hair the disastrous wrong, 594 00:35:12,721 --> 00:35:15,721 Speaker 2: Testing so Now i'm, wondering is there anything that police 595 00:35:15,721 --> 00:35:18,281 Speaker 2: can do with the hair evidence that was so badly. 596 00:35:18,321 --> 00:35:21,921 Speaker 2: Mishandled we know forensic testing has improved a lot since 597 00:35:22,001 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety. Two but THEN i take another look at 598 00:35:26,041 --> 00:35:28,321 Speaker 2: the case file AND i see a report Dated march, 599 00:35:28,361 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 2: fifteenth twenty twenty. Three in, fact it seems to be 600 00:35:32,121 --> 00:35:35,401 Speaker 2: the only activity On Christina pipkin's case that's taken place in, 601 00:35:35,521 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 2: years and it's not good. News according to the case. 602 00:35:46,601 --> 00:35:51,041 Speaker 2: File In march of twenty twenty, three Investigator Robert scott 603 00:35:51,041 --> 00:35:55,881 Speaker 2: of The Arkansas State police Contacted Dale, arnold the Original 604 00:35:56,001 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 2: Arkansas State police investigator On christina's. Case Robert scott Asked 605 00:36:00,521 --> 00:36:03,601 Speaker 2: Dale arnold about the hair. Sample Dale arnold said he 606 00:36:03,641 --> 00:36:06,241 Speaker 2: had already given testimony about it when the mistake was. 607 00:36:06,281 --> 00:36:10,001 Speaker 2: Discovered it seemed from reading the report like it wasn't 608 00:36:10,001 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 2: something That Dale arnold wanted to pursue. Further, Then Robert scott, wrote, 609 00:36:15,201 --> 00:36:19,321 Speaker 2: Quote Cross County Sheriff's office Investigator boykins pulled the case 610 00:36:19,601 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 2: at my request and researched the. Evidence Investigator boykins was 611 00:36:24,081 --> 00:36:26,401 Speaker 2: unable to find the hair recovered from the vehicle of 612 00:36:26,481 --> 00:36:30,241 Speaker 2: Mister tubbs in The Cross County Sheriff's office property. Room 613 00:36:30,361 --> 00:36:33,681 Speaker 2: Investigator arnold stated he didn't know where the hair. Was 614 00:36:33,721 --> 00:36:36,841 Speaker 2: NOW i reviewed the case file on the custody Of Cross, 615 00:36:36,841 --> 00:36:41,321 Speaker 2: county no new information was. Developed it is highly unlikely 616 00:36:41,481 --> 00:36:43,401 Speaker 2: that the recovered hair could be used in a court 617 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 2: forcus due to the previous submission in the trial of 618 00:36:46,481 --> 00:36:49,761 Speaker 2: Mister tubbs end. QUOTE i knew it was a long 619 00:36:49,801 --> 00:36:51,841 Speaker 2: shot with this, hair BUT i can't help but feel 620 00:36:51,881 --> 00:36:55,321 Speaker 2: devastated For christina's family because what that means is that 621 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,361 Speaker 2: after that mistake At Robbie tubbs's, trial the, evidence it 622 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 2: seems was returned from The Arkansas State police crime lab 623 00:37:02,161 --> 00:37:04,841 Speaker 2: to The Cross County sheriff's, office but it didn't stay. 624 00:37:04,841 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 3: There somehow it's. Missing and this is. 625 00:37:12,521 --> 00:37:16,081 Speaker 2: WHERE i really start to feel, outraged because it's not 626 00:37:16,321 --> 00:37:17,361 Speaker 2: enough that they botch the. 627 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,601 Speaker 3: Testing now they've lost the. 628 00:37:19,681 --> 00:37:22,401 Speaker 2: Hair they've lost the one piece of physical evidence that 629 00:37:22,521 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 2: could be definitively. 630 00:37:23,601 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 3: Tested it's just. 631 00:37:25,481 --> 00:37:29,841 Speaker 2: Shocking Investigator scott goes on to say that he and 632 00:37:29,881 --> 00:37:33,361 Speaker 2: another investigator did reach out To Robbie, tubbs though they 633 00:37:33,401 --> 00:37:36,601 Speaker 2: misspelled his name As Ronnie. Tubbs he said they have 634 00:37:36,681 --> 00:37:39,921 Speaker 2: a last known address For robbie at a motel In Sulfur, Springs. 635 00:37:39,921 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 3: TEXAS i don't know if. 636 00:37:42,001 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 2: They don't want to find him or if they can't find, 637 00:37:44,201 --> 00:37:47,201 Speaker 2: Him but no further contact With Robbie tubbs was recorded 638 00:37:47,201 --> 00:37:50,201 Speaker 2: in the case. FILE i Found Robby tubbs in about ten. 639 00:37:50,241 --> 00:37:53,401 Speaker 2: MINUTES i saw on social media that he sometimes posts 640 00:37:53,481 --> 00:37:54,201 Speaker 2: from his hotel. 641 00:37:54,281 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 3: Room AND i really don't. 642 00:37:57,121 --> 00:37:59,241 Speaker 2: Know if THE asp don't feel they have enough evidence 643 00:37:59,281 --> 00:38:02,081 Speaker 2: they don't want to reach. Out maybe they're jurisdictional, Issues 644 00:38:02,761 --> 00:38:05,241 Speaker 2: maybe they don't want to Call texas law enforcement with. 645 00:38:05,361 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 2: Us but either, way that recent, report plus the fact 646 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,761 Speaker 2: they've released the case file publicly tells us the, police 647 00:38:13,801 --> 00:38:21,561 Speaker 2: in my, opinion are not actively investigating this. Case After christina's, 648 00:38:21,561 --> 00:38:23,881 Speaker 2: funeral her, Parents james And, frieda moved. 649 00:38:23,881 --> 00:38:26,601 Speaker 3: Away eventually they divorced. 650 00:38:27,881 --> 00:38:32,001 Speaker 2: AGAIN i take no joy in retraumatizing anyone and digging 651 00:38:32,121 --> 00:38:36,761 Speaker 2: up family, trauma BUT i believe that there are answers 652 00:38:37,481 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 2: in this case that could be found and they are 653 00:38:40,001 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 2: not in this police case. 654 00:38:41,201 --> 00:38:43,401 Speaker 3: File we have to find these. People we need to 655 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:43,881 Speaker 3: talk to. 656 00:38:43,921 --> 00:38:46,801 Speaker 2: Them we have to keep going back to That Bear 657 00:38:46,881 --> 00:38:49,601 Speaker 2: cat convenience store on the night Of may, fourth nineteen ninety, 658 00:38:49,601 --> 00:38:52,441 Speaker 2: one and we have to zero in on the tiny 659 00:38:52,601 --> 00:38:57,201 Speaker 2: little details Now i'm zeroing. 660 00:38:56,841 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 3: In on one. 661 00:38:58,041 --> 00:39:02,801 Speaker 2: Discrepancy christina's math teacher said when she spoke To christina 662 00:39:03,601 --> 00:39:06,601 Speaker 2: That christina had her flyer for jewelry selling in her, 663 00:39:06,641 --> 00:39:11,201 Speaker 2: hand but the Cashier CASHIER, ii who Saw christina in 664 00:39:11,241 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 2: the doorway of the Bear cat a little while, later 665 00:39:13,841 --> 00:39:16,161 Speaker 2: Said christina did not have anything in her, hands and 666 00:39:16,201 --> 00:39:18,841 Speaker 2: she remembered that Because christina kind of shrugged and she 667 00:39:18,881 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 2: saw both of her hands go up and they were. 668 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,721 Speaker 2: Empty so Could christina have left her flyer at home 669 00:39:24,761 --> 00:39:25,281 Speaker 2: then come. 670 00:39:25,161 --> 00:39:25,561 Speaker 3: Back to the. 671 00:39:25,601 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 2: Store if, so why was she coming back to the 672 00:39:28,521 --> 00:39:29,960 Speaker 2: store if she was done selling her? 673 00:39:30,041 --> 00:39:32,201 Speaker 3: Jewelry could she have. 674 00:39:32,201 --> 00:39:36,041 Speaker 2: Seen someone she knew, outside maybe someone who offered her a. 675 00:39:36,161 --> 00:39:38,161 Speaker 3: Ride maybe that. 676 00:39:38,161 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 2: Person had already talked To christina when the cashier saw 677 00:39:41,161 --> 00:39:41,841 Speaker 2: her inside the. 678 00:39:41,881 --> 00:39:45,801 Speaker 3: Door their car was sitting outside right. 679 00:39:45,881 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 2: THEN i am not giving up on this. Case i'm 680 00:39:52,641 --> 00:39:55,121 Speaker 2: gonna work my way through the hundreds of Messages i've 681 00:39:55,161 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 2: received and keep reaching out and keep trying to get. 682 00:39:57,521 --> 00:40:00,881 Speaker 2: Answers i'm going to document every single interview THAT i, 683 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,241 Speaker 2: have And i'm going to turn over any helpful INFORMATION 684 00:40:04,321 --> 00:40:08,241 Speaker 2: i find to law enforcement and to the prosecutor's office 685 00:40:08,401 --> 00:40:11,161 Speaker 2: And i'm going to keep pushing for access to that autopsy, 686 00:40:11,201 --> 00:40:14,281 Speaker 2: report and also to get any information THAT i can 687 00:40:14,721 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 2: About Geneva smith And Guardina. Cross of, course we can 688 00:40:19,201 --> 00:40:22,361 Speaker 2: never know exactly what will happen, next BUT i can, 689 00:40:22,401 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 2: promise as, ALWAYS i will keep working on this case 690 00:40:25,481 --> 00:40:28,481 Speaker 2: in the, background AND i will keep you. Posted most, 691 00:40:28,521 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 2: Importantly i'm going to keep talking to people any ONE i, 692 00:40:31,081 --> 00:40:34,321 Speaker 2: can because every TIME i, do with every new detail 693 00:40:34,401 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 2: THAT i learned that was not in the case file 694 00:40:36,681 --> 00:40:39,961 Speaker 2: or in any of the police, reports that potential window 695 00:40:40,041 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 2: of time that someone had to kidnap and murder a 696 00:40:43,041 --> 00:40:47,201 Speaker 2: little girl gets smaller and. Smaller we have to keep. 697 00:40:47,241 --> 00:40:56,361 Speaker 2: Digging I'm Catherine. Townsend this Is Helen Gone Murder. Line 698 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,521 Speaker 2: Helen Gone Murder line is a production Of school Of 699 00:40:58,601 --> 00:41:01,561 Speaker 2: humans And iHeart. Podcasts it's written and narrated by, Me 700 00:41:01,721 --> 00:41:03,721 Speaker 2: Catherine townsend and produced By Gabby. 701 00:41:03,761 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 3: Watts music is By Ben. 702 00:41:05,641 --> 00:41:10,321 Speaker 2: Solee executive producers Are Virginia, Prescott Brandon barr And Else. 703 00:41:10,481 --> 00:41:13,161 Speaker 2: Crowley if you have a case you'd like me and 704 00:41:13,201 --> 00:41:15,361 Speaker 2: my team to look, into you can reach out to 705 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,801 Speaker 2: us at Our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven 706 00:41:17,841 --> 00:41:21,641 Speaker 2: eight seven four four six' one. Four five that's six 707 00:41:21,721 --> 00:41:25,160 Speaker 2: seven eight seven, four, four six one four. 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