1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie, 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: what time is it? It is time to contemplate time, which, 5 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: by the way, according to fizz org, is one of 6 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: the most popular nouns in the English language. Huh, well, 7 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: that that makes sense. We are increasingly concerned with time 8 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: as we grow older, and as a culture we're just 9 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 1: entirely consumed by it. Now, do you have a time 10 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: keeping device on yourself right now? I do not. You 11 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: do not, I, weirdly enough do not as well. I 12 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: left my watch in the drawer, and I left my 13 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: phone on the desk. Stop. However, uh nol has like 14 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: three computers over there keeping taking us off right now, 15 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: shaking his head. Well, you know, it's it's interesting to 16 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: think about about time. I mean, well, it's more than interesting. 17 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: It's like mind rending to really think about time. Time? 18 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: Is this this this well of a topic that you 19 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: can just throw yourself down and just never reach the bottom. 20 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 1: We could probably do twenty separate podcast episodes on time, 21 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,199 Speaker 1: and we will not because I think you guys would 22 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: all go a little bit nuts. But to tease about 23 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: a part time is like trying to tease apart you know, 24 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: a million threads that are tangled together because you have 25 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: all sorts of ideas involved in and when did time begin? 26 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: What was there before time? What is time? Really? Is 27 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: a mental construct? Is it a you know, a physical construct? 28 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,479 Speaker 1: You know, how does it really work for us? And 29 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: is it ultimately an illusion? So we're gonna try to 30 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: talk about some of these topics and also talk about 31 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: the mechanics of time itself. Yeah, I think time is 32 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: is is a topic where you ask different people in 33 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: different disciplines, you know, get slightly different answers. Time to 34 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: the physicist is different than than time to the theologian, 35 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: to the philosopher, to uh to to a biologist. You 36 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: can into all these areas and you get slightly different answers. Uh. 37 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,959 Speaker 1: We were kind of and we've always been intrigued with time, 38 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: but particularly propelled to tackle it this week because I've 39 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: recently attended the World Science Festival UM As our regular 40 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: listeners know, we both went two years ago, then Julie 41 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: went last year, I went this year. Next year's Julie's 42 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: turn unless somebody decides to send us both we'll see 43 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: or should be awesome, which would be awesome, but generally 44 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 1: we're leap frogging itt uh these days. So this was 45 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: I went to this really cool lecture called a Matter 46 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: of Time that included Ira flatow Uh from NPR, Paul Davies, 47 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: the cosmologist philosopher Craig candler Um, as well as a 48 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: physicist Max tech Mark and philosopher Tim Maudlin, and it 49 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: was it was pretty intense. Did you you You got 50 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: to stream this right? It stream right if you go 51 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: to the World Science Festival website, you can actually see 52 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: this documented and watch it for yourself. And I highly 53 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: recommend that you do because they really get into some 54 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: very media subjects there, and in fistico of flying well metaphorically. Yeah, 55 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: particularly because of Tim Modlin. Because Tim Modlin, who I 56 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: was not familiar with before. He is a professor of 57 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: philosophy at n y U and he holds a BA 58 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: in physics and philosophy from Yale and a PhD in 59 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: History and philosophy of science from the University of Pittsburgh. 60 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: He's he's quite a character because he was he was 61 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: thrown into he had another philosopher on the panel with him, 62 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: but for the most part he's there with with some 63 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: physicist and he is just picking fights left and right 64 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: about the nature of time, particularly with Paul Davies, who's 65 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: more of a you know, and I love Paul Davies. 66 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: He's more of an old school UM physicist and science 67 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: communicator mass communicator. UM actually interviewed him a few years 68 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: back for Discovery Science. Wonderful guy, but he has a 69 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: very very grounded physics based understanding of time. Meanwhile, Tim 70 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: Modelin has this this idea about how we need to 71 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: redefine mathematics. I'm poorly illustrating in here, but he has 72 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: some some rather philosophic ideas about how we need to 73 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: reevaluate the way that we think about time. Well, UM, 74 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: I think that the surprise for everyone was that the philosopher, 75 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: typically on these panels sort of comes out UM as 76 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: the second banana, right, because the physicists usually sort of 77 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: take the center stage and say, you know, the following things, 78 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: and you know, this is physicist grounding it down with 79 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 1: facts and math, and they're you know, they're they're supported 80 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 1: by the by all these numbers. But Momla just jumped 81 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: in there, and he did a really great job of 82 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: actually sort of setting the tone for explaining what time 83 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: is and going into the physicist territory to explain some 84 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: of that in order to make some of his arguments. 85 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: So um. The big crux of this, at least in 86 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: the first I would say half part of this um 87 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 1: of this talk was this idea about whether or not 88 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: time is linear or when it began if it's a 89 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 1: secular I mean, the sole idea of what can you 90 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: go back and forth in time? And of course, according 91 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: to the laws of physics, yeah you can't. It's not 92 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: a problem. But we perceived time in this linear fashion 93 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: right at the beginning in an end, and this is 94 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: where it got very interesting. And this is some of 95 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: the information, um that we wanted to really sort of 96 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: plumb for you guys today. One more quick aside. On 97 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: each panel the World Science Festival this year, I tried 98 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: to pick out which panelists would make the best. James 99 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: Bond Villain and Tim Modlin was my pick for this panel. 100 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: I agree, and I would say though that Max tag Mark. 101 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: He also mentioned him that he is very charismatic. He 102 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 1: was also sort of swinging along there with Paul Davis. Yeah, 103 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: it was really really Tim, Paul and Max that were 104 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: really really bringing it. Everyone was great, though, So let's 105 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: get back to time, and we're going to start. We're 106 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: not going to start at the beginning because that's that's 107 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: also rather meaty topic. But let's just start with with 108 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 1: time itself. At its most basic level. Time as we 109 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: perceive it is the rate of change in the universe, 110 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 1: and like it or not, we're all constantly undergoing change. 111 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: We age, the planets, move around, the sun, things fall 112 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: apart um. There's also, as Paul Davis mentioned in this talk, 113 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: I attended, another classic way of looking at it is 114 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: that quote time is just one damn thing after the other, right, right, 115 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 1: and um. The physicists on the panel, and actually the 116 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 1: philosophers too, all sort of pointed back to this idea 117 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: of well when did time really begin? And you know, 118 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: there was the idea of, well, of course it began, 119 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: you know, something like thirteen point billion years ago when 120 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: the universe came into existence, because with it, beyond the 121 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: obvious like protons, neutron stars, um, galaxies, space and time 122 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 1: came into existence. So obviously without our universe we wouldn't 123 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: even be sitting here parsing time, trying to categorize it 124 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 1: or abstracting it in ways, uh, that we could better 125 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: understand it. Yeah, So we have this interesting fabric of 126 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: space time, and anyone who's you know, if you've listened 127 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: any of the science podcast before, even a little bit 128 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: about cosmology or just really like star Trek or something, 129 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: then you know about space time. You know that that 130 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: there's not just the situation of oh where are you 131 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: and what time is it? Time and space are one. 132 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: We don't live in a purely three dimensional world of 133 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: three spatial dimensions. We have this fourth dimension of time. 134 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: This this entirely wrapped it up in a time cannot 135 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: exist without space, and space cannot exist without time. That's 136 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: the classic understanding of it. So time and space are 137 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: tied together, and so things that end up having having 138 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: an effect in space also end up having an effect 139 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: in time. Uh. For instance, Uh, we see this with 140 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: time dilation. We see it with with satellites and GPS. 141 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: For uh, is Davy's put it, time moves a little 142 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: faster on the roof than it does in the basement. 143 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: So uh, a timekeeping mechanism on a satellite is gonna 144 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: move faster than one down here on the surface of 145 00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: the planet, closer to the center of mass. Uh. Likewise, 146 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: a person standing next to a pyramid would experience time 147 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: at an almost immeasurably smaller pace, and someone standing far 148 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: away from the pyramid, right. We all experienced it in 149 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: different ways. So you talked about time dilation. Time dilation, right, 150 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: This idea that depending on where you are and how 151 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: fast you are traveling, time can be different. There can 152 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: be that dilation. And so we know this because we 153 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: actually account for it in GPS algorithms that satellites twelve 154 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: thousand feet up above the Earth used to pinpoint exactly 155 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: where you are. I are here on Earth as we 156 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 1: look at our smartphone and try to figure out where 157 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: we are in the map. Right, So time dilation has 158 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: to be accounted for in these algorithms. Again, because you 159 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,439 Speaker 1: have satellites, they're twelve thousand feet up. So we know this. 160 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: We know that we're losing time in different ways, or 161 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: that time behaves differently depending on where we are. Yeah, 162 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: you put you leave one one watch at the airport 163 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: and you put another one on a supersonic jet. Uh. 164 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: Then at the end of that flight, you're going to 165 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: have two different times on the pieces even though they 166 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: were syncd up prior, because so again mass changes changes time, 167 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: and so to speed. And although I want to point 168 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: out that this is a fairly new idea, right before 169 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: e'instinday nineteen o eight proposed this, we were sort of, 170 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: uh talking in more Newtonian terms, where you, according to 171 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 1: philosopher Craig Calendar had time being this unique privileged presence 172 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: carving up the universe. So we didn't have this idea 173 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: of space time, this fabric of space and time intertwining 174 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: and really sort of informing how time passes for us 175 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: or how things behave right, and to take things back 176 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: to the beginnings we mentioned earlier, the idea too is 177 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: that with a big bang, you have a you have 178 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: you have you have the expansion of space time, so 179 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: there's no time before the big bang, time comes into 180 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: exist out in the same way that space comes into 181 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: existence out of that my new singularity. So you have 182 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: this idea of the arrow of time, right, this this 183 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: linear time being shot forth in an arrow, or is 184 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,599 Speaker 1: Paul Davies put it puts it it's more of the 185 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:18,199 Speaker 1: question of is it an arrow on a compass or 186 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,719 Speaker 1: an arrow shot from a bow. Yes, yeah, he went 187 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: into that a bit about the different changes between between arrows, right, 188 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: which is the you know, we get down to this 189 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: idea of linear time versus cyclical time. Yeah, cyclical and 190 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: linear time that this is this is really interesting and 191 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: I've I've always found it pretty fascinating, um because when 192 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: you make your time by space, you see how much 193 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: of it goes in cycles, the sun, the moon, the seasons. 194 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: Traditional societies up and speak of time as cycles. We 195 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: see this in Hinduism and other cosmologies that have really 196 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,719 Speaker 1: ancient roots. Things happen again and again, and anything we 197 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: do is only meaningful insofar as it falls in line 198 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: with the cycle of what came before. Meanwhile, do in 199 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: part to biblical traditions, Western cultures view time as linear. 200 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 1: Things happen once and for all and um, and all 201 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: of it occurs on a timeline from creation to the 202 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: crack of doom. Similar things might happen again and again, 203 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: but they are not identical. So on one hand, cyclical 204 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: time time as a circle, time as a wheel. It 205 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: always comes back around to the same place. And anything 206 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: that you or I do, they're only important because they 207 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: fall into the into these these iconic shapes that have 208 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: happened before. UM. Meanwhile, again, the linear time, it's a plot, 209 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: it's a story and um. As Mercedes Eliade points out 210 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: in the Myth of the Eternal Return, UM, the authors 211 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: suggests that traditional societies see forces of the earth recurring 212 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: on a regular basis without change, and the rest of 213 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: it see it as this arc, as this timeline, as 214 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: this ladder, and it's all increasingly annoying and horrible because 215 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: we come to see that we make the same mistakes 216 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: over and over again. We see the cyclical nature of 217 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: our horrors despite our belief that everything is linear. So 218 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: that's just just one one bit of insight into the 219 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: way we view time. There was a really good sort 220 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: of reductionist idea on this. There's a video and I 221 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: can't recall the name of the video right now, but 222 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: it was basically like the chicken and egg conundrum. So 223 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: they took the chicken. It could be the chicken or 224 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: the egg, and they showed what linear time looks like. 225 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 1: So let's say you start with the chicken and then 226 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: you see in the linear timeline an egg, which is 227 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: the past. You see the chicken present, and then you 228 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: see another egg and then it's future, right, and you 229 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 1: can easily extrapolate that to humans. So you know, my 230 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: DNA for the next generation is that egg. That's the future, right. 231 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: And then they showed the cyclical nature of the chicken 232 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: and egg proposition. So you start or with either the 233 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: chicken or the egg. It doesn't matter because there is 234 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: no beginning or end in this wheel of the chicken egg, 235 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: the chicken the egg in this circle. And they are 236 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: saying that you can very easily see how this sort 237 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: of traditional model, as you say, and additional societies or 238 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 1: in some Eastern countries would come to reflect something like reincarnation, right, 239 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 1: this idea that you just keep ending up somewhere else 240 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: on the wheel, yeah, or you know, it's it's also 241 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: interesting when you see see people like enter into a 242 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: you know, study of of Hinduism, for instance, with with 243 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: a with a Christian background. You go into it thinking, well, 244 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: where where's the beginning, where's the end? And it doesn't 245 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: exactly line up like that. Of course, with both those models, 246 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: you still have the big problem of what existed before that, right, Yeah, 247 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: and then what exists afterwards? Yeah, you still end up 248 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,199 Speaker 1: with the same sort of cosmological quandaries that you do 249 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 1: in in physics to a certain extent. Um. So another 250 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: part of this that that ties in nicely with this 251 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: is that, on a less grandiose scale, much of the 252 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: world is now ruled by clock time. Uh. You know, 253 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: we we look at our clocks. We're we're sinking, and 254 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: we know what time we need to get up, when 255 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 1: we need to be in the office, what time we 256 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 1: have this meeting, that meeting, lunch, the next meeting. Uh, downtime, 257 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 1: the afternoon, nap under your desk, fall by the your 258 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: time to go home, your time to eat dinner, your 259 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:04,319 Speaker 1: time to go to yoga, your time to go to sleep, 260 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: you're time to catch your TV show. Um. Meanwhile, in 261 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: many cultures there are still much more of a sense 262 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: of natural and local time. So in society societies that 263 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 1: are based around agriculture, hunting, and other pursuits that involve 264 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: human interaction with the natural world, time discipline is a 265 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: matter and governed by astronomical and biological factors. It's lunchtime 266 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: because I feel hungry. It's naptime because I'm sleepy. It's 267 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: time to to harvest the crops because it is time 268 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: to harvest the crops, it's time to go hunting, because 269 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: now it's when the animals are out, and so on. 270 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: But we enter this modern world of international media, international commerce, etcetera. 271 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: And it's a world dependent on rigid time zones and 272 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: the interactions between them. Well, yeah, because I mean we 273 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: we had shifted as a society, largely from a grarian 274 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: society which is ruled by the seasons, to this post 275 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: industrial society for the most part, you know, industrialized nations, 276 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: which requires the you start to standardize time. Yeah, And 277 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: it used to be not too long ago that you 278 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: you could not count on three PM in this town 279 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: being three people in the next town, So even though 280 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: you had clock time creeping in, it was still very local. Yeah. 281 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 1: But then you began to see, particularly in America, that 282 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: there was this need for standardized time because you had 283 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: railroad accidents occurring because people were not on the same timetable, 284 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: or you had sailors who had difficulty turning their longitude 285 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: at CE. So something like saying Astronomical regulator UH could 286 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: telegraph standard times across the country so that everybody was 287 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: on the same page. So it became a necessity of 288 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: modern society. Yeah, and uh one thing I ran across 289 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: this was pretty interesting. Um So, there's a by by 290 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: the name of Mark Ladison from Auckland. Uh He he 291 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: put forth this idea for new for New Earth time 292 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: or NET. UH his his basic pitch here, and there's 293 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: a website where you can look it up. He says. 294 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: He's argues as since Earth is now a place, it's 295 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: not just the setting, but at a place increasingly and 296 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: his connections grow, will need a common language of time. 297 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: So uh NET proposes to use a global standard time 298 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: that measures a global day with three d sixty degrees, 299 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: and then this would run along It wouldn't replace our 300 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: complex system of of of of time zones, but it 301 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: would run alongside it. Uh so that we can act 302 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: locally in local time but still and then act globally 303 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: in New Earth time. Uh So, for instance, like right now, 304 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: I'm trying to schedule an interview with somebody in the 305 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: UK for for one of our episodes, and I'm running, 306 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: I'm having to do all that stupid math in my 307 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: head where I'm not that the math is stupid, but 308 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: um but but but I'm having to calculate. All right, well, 309 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: let's see if he's in London and I'm here, and 310 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: that's what time is it there? What time is it here? Uh? 311 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: You know, and if you if you add additional factors 312 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: into that, like heaven forbid, you're doing a conference call 313 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: with people and far corners of the globe, then there's 314 00:16:57,760 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: going to be even more complexity. But if you did 315 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: have a New Earth time, that could be just part 316 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 1: of it, be like, hey, who wants to let's have 317 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: this meeting at you know whatever New Earth time and 318 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: then everyone can line up in agreement with that. I 319 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: think it's a pretty cool idea. I think it's a 320 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 1: cool idea. But what happens when you go off Earth? Well, 321 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: I think interesting our time or star date? Right? Well, 322 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:17,880 Speaker 1: I guess. But for the meantime, you could have like 323 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 1: you could have net and met, you could have New 324 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: Earth time and mark no it didn't work. Um, you 325 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: would have New Earth time and Mars time. So you 326 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: have net and knit and so someone more of that 327 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: map to make you feel stupid. Yes, well then then 328 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 1: we'll need then we'll need Solar System time and then 329 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: you know, Okay, it just it gets every time we 330 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 1: try and make it simple, it just gets more complicated, 331 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: but but it underlines some of the problems because ultimately 332 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 1: you could argue that all time is local UH from 333 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: a number of standpoints, even even physics wise, because we're 334 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: talking about the way that that speed relation to mass 335 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: adjust the way the way time moves and UH, and 336 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: also relativity are our experience of time just from a 337 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: logical level. UM. You know the classic example from Einstein 338 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 1: about sticking your finger on a stove or looking at 339 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: a beautiful woman, and how your experience of time doing 340 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: both of those is somewhat different. So yeah, Paul Davies 341 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: had a really interesting thing to say about this UM 342 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 1: when he was talking about space time on the panel, 343 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 1: and he said, you have to consider both time and 344 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: space because your time and my time are different depending 345 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: on how we're moving through it. Just like matter can 346 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: be changed and manipulated, so can space and time. So 347 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: I believe he said that after they show a video 348 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: of a wine glass shattering on the ground and talking 349 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: about UM, you know this linear time frame where you 350 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: have this ordered matter the glass shattering and become disordered, 351 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 1: they say, uh, And actually I believe they lined it 352 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: up with UM. The universe actually, like at the beginning 353 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: of the universe was ordered and it's now just in 354 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: various states of entropy. Yeah, all right, well it is 355 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 1: time for us to to take a break. And not 356 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: because I had a stopwatch, but it feels like time 357 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: to take a break. Your your brain is subconsciously taking 358 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: away the moment telling you. So we're gonna take take 359 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: this quick break, and when we come back, we're gonna 360 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: talk about some of the ways that we measure time, 361 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: and then we're going to talk about time as a 362 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: possible illusion. All right, so we're back. So we've been 363 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: talking about time, about some of the physics of time, 364 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: the experience of time um and about how in a sense, 365 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: all time is local and all time is relative. So 366 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: if we were living in a world of clock time, 367 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: you know, we have to have means of measuring. So 368 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 1: this is where we entered the world of horology, the 369 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: science of measuring time, and from from the outset, a 370 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: horologist goal is to find something that changes at a steady, 371 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,439 Speaker 1: predictable rate and use that as a measuring stick for 372 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: all other changes. So ignoring you know, various clocks and 373 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: electronic gadgets that we have, what do you have in 374 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: your life that is that predictable that you could. You could, 375 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: you could, in words, set your clock to my daughter. Yeah, 376 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: you could douse her as a time keeping device. I 377 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: absolutely could, and I do. I mean she she's like 378 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: the cock that crows at six am. Yeah. Well, I 379 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: guess it's similar to the way like our cat. This 380 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: gut is kind of like that. So you know, we 381 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: will go through like daylight savings time and our pets 382 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: never get the memo so so that they're they're still like, yes, 383 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: four am, time to wake up. So so in a sense, 384 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: in fact, in those cases we refer to our cat 385 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: as the fury alarm clock. It's true they are very 386 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 1: adamant about getting you up on time. But um but yeah, 387 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: I mean they are a little horologists, right. So, needless 388 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: to say, we've invented a number of ways to pinpoint 389 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: things in in the in our perceivable universe, in our 390 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: perceivable world, uh that that have a steady rate of 391 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: change that we can depend on and use as a 392 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: timetelling device. One of the most basic, of course, is 393 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: the sun dial, which depends on the position of the 394 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 1: Sun in the sky, or rather the Earth's position in 395 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: reference to the sun rotation wise um one that I 396 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: find particularly interesting. UM and Brittle article on for how 397 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 1: stuff works. Water clocks use the predictability of moving water, 398 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: and these have been around for ages, like the oldest 399 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: known water clock dates back to dates back to b C, 400 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,360 Speaker 1: when it was interred in the tomb the Egyptian pharaoh 401 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: A Minute the First and the Greeks began using them 402 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: around three twenty five BC and dub them clapped siders 403 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,199 Speaker 1: or water thieves. Um. You have two basic types of 404 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 1: water clock. In an outflow water clock, the inside of 405 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: a container is marked with lines of measurement, The water 406 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: leaks out of the container at a steady pace, and 407 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: observers tell time by measuring how much water level has changed. 408 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: For instance, if it takes one hour for the water 409 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: level and container to drop down one inch, then a 410 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: three inch drop in water level means that three hours 411 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: have passed, which is pretty clever, right, yeah, song as 412 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: you don't get too cold. Yeah. The The inherent problem though, 413 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: is that the system of MN is based on the 414 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: flow of water. So if you have you know, a 415 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: huge fire hose of water coming out, it's obviously going 416 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: to change the rate at which is accumulating. Yeah, and 417 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: it's it's one of these things too. Like that's a 418 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 1: pretty simple system we measure we talked about there the outflow, 419 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,400 Speaker 1: But the more complex the system, uh, the more unmanageable 420 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: and inflow water clock basically uses the same measure and 421 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: the same principle, only the measurements are inside of a 422 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: second container which it drips into. But then it wasn't 423 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: long for the Greek, Greek and Roman engineers were regulating 424 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: pressure in their water clocks. Um. They threw in bells, pointers, 425 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: mechanical displays. UM. The Chinese also got in on this, Uh, 426 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: they're brilliant engineers came up with elaborate water clock cower, 427 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,439 Speaker 1: some as tall as thirty feet nine ms uh, and 428 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 1: similar clocks were soon popping up in the Middle East. 429 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: But they, like I said, they grew so complex that, 430 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: for instance, there's a century old water clock in the 431 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: Moroccan city of Fez and stopped working in the mid 432 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: fourteen hundreds, and to this day, no one really knows 433 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: how to fix it because it's it's it's so complex, 434 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: and it remains uh inoperative to this day. Do you 435 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: think that everyone in Fezz wears a Fez? Probably not. 436 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna say no, no, everyone 437 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: in FEZ does not work. I think you're right. Um, 438 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: I did read that an ell even century water clock 439 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: uh would gain on typically about ten minutes or lose 440 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,360 Speaker 1: ten minutes a day. And that's not bad century. You're 441 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 1: right to be about ten minutes off. Yeah, that's the thing. 442 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,959 Speaker 1: But but obviously that as as we'll discuss, we get 443 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 1: much better as we developed more advanced means of keeping time, 444 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,239 Speaker 1: and then you don't have to worry about filling up 445 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,199 Speaker 1: your clock with water, which you know these days you 446 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: just don't need to do that. You, I mean, you can, 447 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: but it's it's not going to have the same effect. Um. 448 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: So obviously we have mechanical clocks, which we're not going 449 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: to spend a lot of time on. We have some 450 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: really good articles on how stuff works dot com about 451 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: how pendulum clocks work, about how mechanical clocks work, and 452 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 1: basic clockwork pocket watch and these use clockwork gears, pendulums, etcetera. 453 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 1: We create a machine that ticks by at a steady rate. Yeah, 454 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: I mean this. You have the pendulum creating the motion 455 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: and the energy, right, and then you have the gears 456 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: that are basically notating how many seconds, how many minutes, 457 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: how many hours have passed. So you've got the markers. Again, 458 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: if someone you know, you look at the rudimentory like 459 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: the waterline, while you're just creating different types of water 460 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: lines here with different technology. Yeah, I mean also brings up, 461 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 1: of course, the metronome, right that helps you keep keep 462 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: your beat, or or you know George Michael who's a 463 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: living metronome for development. I thought for a moment, I 464 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: went to the singer no, no, no different, different Michael um. 465 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: And then, of course digital clocks turn all this in 466 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: into electronic function. Now what about quartz quartz clots and watches. 467 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: Those are paced by electrically stimulating crystals vibrating at about 468 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 1: thirty two thousand, seven hundred sixty eight times per second. Again, 469 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: another measurable way to make your markers. And these were 470 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 1: developed in the nineteen twenties and they keep time to 471 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: within a second per day, So that's not bad either. Cool, 472 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,400 Speaker 1: But then we have another type of clock that really 473 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 1: kind of blows all this out of the water because 474 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: the long term accuracy achieved by these timekeeping keeping devices 475 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: is better than one second per one million years. Yeah, 476 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: this is this is kind of the big deal here, 477 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: and so in this way, of course talking about atomic clocks, 478 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: UM day backed around. That's when Columbia University physics professor 479 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 1: Isadore Robbie suggested that clock could be made from the 480 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: technique that he developed in the nineteen thirties called atomic 481 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: beam magnetic residents. And in nine nine, the National Bureau 482 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: of Standards MBS now the National Institute of Standards and 483 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: Technology announced the world's first atomic clock UNI using the 484 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: ammonium molecule as the source of vibrations, and in nineteen 485 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: fifty two was announced the first atomic clock using ccium 486 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: adams and the vibration source in d S one. UM. 487 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,199 Speaker 1: So I probably need to break this down real quick. Um. 488 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 1: If all that didn't make any sense, don't worry. That's 489 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: crystal clear, crystal clear like quartz. Um. Okay. With an 490 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: atomic clock, we're talking about a precision timekeeping device that 491 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: depends for its operation on an electrical oscillator regulated by 492 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 1: the natural vibration frequencies of an atomic system as a beam, 493 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: such as a beam of cesium atoms. What is an atom? 494 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: Just to refreshing atom is the smallest particle of an 495 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: element that can exist either alone or in combination. The 496 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 1: atom is considered to be a source of that potential energy. 497 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: Scum one thirty three is an isotope of cesium used 498 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: especially in atomic clocks, and one of whose atomic translations 499 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: is used as a scientific time standard. And then finally, 500 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 1: an s I second. An atomic second is the interval 501 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: at time taken to complete nine billion, one million, six 502 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: D thirty one thousand, seven hundred and seventy oscillations of 503 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: the SCUM one three atom exposed to a suitable excitation. 504 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:56,120 Speaker 1: So basically, what we're saying here is that, uh, if 505 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: you look closely at the atomic level, there are things 506 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: that are occurring at a predictable rate of change, and 507 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: we can and do set our clocks to them. Yeah, 508 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: and I just want to point out that CC and resonance. 509 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: Resonance was actually defined by the international agreement to say 510 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 1: this is the standard, this nine billion million number that 511 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: creates this this um one hurts or one cycle per second. 512 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: So everybody in in the the entire world would agree 513 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: on this right to move forward with atomic time or 514 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: the atomic clock. Um. And as you say, the atoms 515 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 1: and molecules, they all have resonances in each chemical element 516 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: and compound absorbs and emits electromagnetic radiation within its own frequency. 517 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,719 Speaker 1: So yeah, first use of this with with the chemical 518 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 1: ammonious So I think that's really cool because again this 519 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,199 Speaker 1: is like in the water mark, this idea that you 520 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,959 Speaker 1: can gauge something against another thing to show the passing 521 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: of time. Yeah, it's it's it's really interesting to think 522 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: about it in that way because to time, especially just 523 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: our experience with with our clocks and ourist watches, we 524 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: often overlook exactly what's going on. It's just such a 525 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 1: standard part of our lives. In the same way that 526 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: time is often difficult to understand because we are immersed 527 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: in it. It is uh, you know, it's like a 528 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 1: fish trying to understand what a lake is. The fish 529 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: never leaves the lake. Well, I was reading to about 530 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: um how children begin to understand the concept of time, 531 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 1: and that they don't really begin to to figure out 532 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: that it's this linear sort of um particular to them 533 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: element of their life and tell her about five years old. 534 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: So when they're three years old, it's just sort of 535 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 1: like moment to moment, whatever they're doing at the moment 536 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: very present. So it's interesting how our brains don't well, 537 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: I shouldn't say this because this is an unknown quantity 538 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: in terms of how we um mark the passage of 539 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: time and our brains. But it's interesting how we don't 540 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: seem to roll out of the womb saying, ah, sixty 541 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: seconds have just passed. In some ways, it's a bit 542 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: of conditioning. Yeah, and then you get into the whole, 543 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: you know, issue of time times growing faster as you 544 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: get older, which it always seems to be the case. 545 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: Um and uh and and everyone attested this. But but 546 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: I've heard arguments that one of the things that is 547 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: going on here, and also one of the reasons that 548 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,479 Speaker 1: vacations are so memorable and traveling and new experiences are 549 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: so important is is because as things become more routine, 550 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: as things become more every day, we we focus on 551 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: them less, they they impact us less, and time seems 552 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: to fast faster. Where you go on a vacation, you're 553 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: a new land and new place, a new setting, things 554 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: seem to slow down because there's so much more new 555 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: info to take in. And when we're younger, so much 556 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: of the world is new to us. That that that things, 557 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: relatively speaking, seemed to be happening much slower. Well, and 558 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: it is interesting to think about how the brain is 559 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: tagging time. As you said that a lot of this 560 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: has to do with memory. And there's a really interesting 561 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: um study that showed that a specific group of cells 562 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: in the brains memory center is encoding for the passage 563 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: of time. And this was proven out by Boston University 564 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: study that looked at the hippocampus of rats and those 565 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: rats of courts have electrodes implanted in the hippocampus so 566 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: they could figure out the patterns of firing neurons. And 567 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: what they did is they said, okay, rats, here's this um, 568 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: here's a little bit of a regano. Smell it, because 569 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: we know you love herbs. Um. Now we're going to 570 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: put you into this middle chamber for ten seconds, and 571 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: when you get out on the other side, there's going 572 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 1: to be a pot of sand that smells like a regano. 573 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: It doesn't look like it, but it smells like it. 574 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: If you find it and you identify it, you get 575 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: a reward that this over and over and over again. 576 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: And what they found isn't in that ten second chamber 577 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: while they're waiting essentially to go and identify this regano 578 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: that they've been conditioned to do. They see this really 579 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: specific pattern of neurons that are taking away time. So yes, 580 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: it's inextricably linked to memory and how we perceived this 581 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: passing of time. It's very interesting. Yeah. And then of 582 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: course after the fact, our memories are are the key 583 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: to it. So we have that we have. If we 584 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: have stronger memories of an event, it's it's going to 585 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: seem like it happened at a at a much just 586 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: slower pace. Yeah. I also want to put out this 587 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: other study. It was a three year study at U 588 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: c l A that showed networks of brain cells kept 589 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: alive and a culture could be trained to keep time. 590 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: The team actually stimulated the cells with simple patterns to 591 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: stimuli separated by different intervals lasting from a twenty second 592 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: to up to half a second, and after two just 593 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: two hours of training in a Petri dish, the team 594 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: observed a measurable change in the cellular network's response to 595 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: a single input. Oh man, that would be one creepy 596 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: wrist watch if you had it's actual like organic brain 597 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: cells inside of it powering it. You know, we often 598 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,239 Speaker 1: have a giant Petrie Dish once, I wonder what kind 599 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: of cells you'd have, would you just have like would 600 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: it be a rap brainwatch or would it be like 601 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: like could it be like like like like people you 602 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: knew their their brain cells kind of lovely in a way, 603 00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: in a way, but also kind of weird. I don't know, 604 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: I don't know, but but but certainly noteworthy. I loved 605 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: pat Perhaps you know, that's a way to keep the 606 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: memory of love right and the passage of time. Um. So, 607 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: of course that is going to lead to to the 608 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: question the inevitable, So is time and illusion anyway, Yeah, 609 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: we get into this this whole conundrum here of space 610 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: and time they're they're one, and then how do we 611 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: how do we make sense of our experience of time 612 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: and how we we we are locked on this linear 613 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: experience of time, especially knowing that our memory is influencing 614 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: how we perceive the passage of time. Right. Um. Max 615 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: tech Mark, the physicist that was on this panel that 616 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier. Um. Again, he's also a 617 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: great science communicator for for the mass audience. Uh, you know, 618 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: just just a really delightful guy to hear and read. 619 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: He makes a wonderful analogy to a movie on a DVD. 620 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: So he says that our life is a movie and 621 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: space time is the entire DVD that the movie's on, 622 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: and the d v D is not changing, and that 623 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: it's wrong to say that the actor in the DVD 624 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: the hero you know, you or I are traveling through 625 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: the DVD. We're traveling through the movie on the DVD. 626 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: So we have we end up having this illusion, he says, 627 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: of a changing three dimensional world even though nothing changes 628 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: in our four dimensional union of space and time of 629 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: Einstein's relativity theory. Um so yeah. The other interesting thing 630 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 1: about this is that if if all the contents in 631 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: the DVD are set, then is there any free will? 632 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 1: You know, We're we're experiencing the movie. We don't know 633 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: what's going to happen, and we're like, oh, is uh 634 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: you know, is is the the hero gonna get the girl? 635 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 1: As the villain going to h perish? Well, that the 636 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: movie was was set in stone from the very beginning. 637 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: It's just our experience of it that is different. Yeah, 638 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: so is everything predetermined? Which drove everybody on the panel 639 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: nuts too, right, So um, and then I also started 640 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: to think about cyclical time again because within the DVD 641 00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: you could argue that there's you can go backwards, you 642 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 1: can and go forwards, yeah, or you know, set that 643 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: puppy on loop and it's just going NonStop. Right. So 644 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: I don't know that he meant that, you know, he 645 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 1: was a believer in cyclical time, but I did think 646 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: that was interesting that he brought that that analogy up. 647 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: Now I realized some of this is probably still um 648 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,479 Speaker 1: not all that clear, So I want to read another 649 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: little bit, and this is from Luke Jones, who's a 650 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,320 Speaker 1: psychologist specializing in time perception at the University of Manchester 651 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: in England, and this is from an article called in 652 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,800 Speaker 1: their own words, fourteen Experts on Time that is printed 653 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,919 Speaker 1: in Forbes. You can look it up. Highly recommend checking 654 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: that out because a lot of different people from different disciplines, 655 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: including like the CEO of a watch company telling you 656 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: what they think time is as in Buddhist touch times 657 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: and his really lovely article. But this is what Luke 658 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: Jones has to say. He says, in our consciousness we 659 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: have a persistent feeling of events receding uh into a 660 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,240 Speaker 1: past of non existence, of the future as a nebulous 661 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,439 Speaker 1: void of possible existences to come and of the now 662 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 1: to which we grant a higher level of existence. But 663 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: in the physicist view, the dinosaurs, or birth, Christmas morning, 664 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: and your deathbed all have the same level of existence 665 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: at this very moment. It is only our consciousness that 666 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 1: gives special importance to any place in the timescape. Human 667 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: consciousness also resists clock time. We know from experiments and 668 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,839 Speaker 1: everyday experiences that the speed of our internal clocks can 669 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: be manipulated by changes in body heat, difference in the 670 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: type of stimuli to which we are responding, and by 671 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: high adournaline situations such as car crashes or combat. For example, 672 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 1: sounds are perceived as longer than light flashes of the 673 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,879 Speaker 1: same actual duration, while adrenaline makes it seem as though 674 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: time is slowing down now. I found that particularly interesting 675 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: and also very in a way comforting, like the idea 676 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 1: that every moment of your life, like your past, is 677 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 1: not something lost to you, and your future is not 678 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,280 Speaker 1: something undiscovered. It all exists, and in the same way, 679 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: like everyone that has been in your life and everyone 680 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,720 Speaker 1: that will be in your life, they in a sense 681 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: exist in this solid state. I've always thought about that. 682 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: I've always thought all the people I've ever known sort 683 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,360 Speaker 1: of rotate in and out, either physically I see them 684 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: or you know, within my own memories, and they never 685 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: quite go out of the loop of more particular universe. 686 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: But I also thought that you know, talk about time, 687 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 1: we talked about it being linear, but so many of 688 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 1: us live in the past or in the future, but 689 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: the possible about the past and front and about the future, 690 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: and and you know, we've we've talked about the value 691 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 1: of being able to focus on the now and then 692 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: live in the moment. That's right, because you can't be 693 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: in two places at one time. But but I think 694 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: it's it's very comforting, particularly if anyone you know, anyone 695 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: out there who's who's lost someone that they care about, 696 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 1: to think that they it's not a situation of they 697 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 1: used to exist in the universe, but they are a 698 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 1: part of the universe. And in our our language is 699 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 1: kind of limited in our ability to even describe such 700 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: a concept, because even our our linguistics are based in 701 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,839 Speaker 1: a linear or at least sick cool understanding of time. Uh, 702 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,799 Speaker 1: this this idea of space time is this constant we 703 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 1: were kind of lacking and even a you know, an 704 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 1: ability to to to explain it with language. Well, not 705 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 1: to sound like a pro cyclical, you know, but but 706 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: I will say that the more and more that I 707 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 1: begin to ponder these sort of things, I think of 708 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 1: our existence as just being sort of this recycled terrarium 709 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,279 Speaker 1: that we all live in. So you've pointed this out 710 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 1: before any bit of water that we've ever you know ingested, 711 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: or food is it's the chemical matter of everyone and 712 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: everything else in the world. Not to mention that our 713 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: own bodies are made from the chemicals out there in 714 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 1: the universe. Um, so you know in every breath that 715 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: we ever take is from our ancestors deceased breath. So yeah, 716 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: like think of well not quite literally, but you know 717 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,800 Speaker 1: what I'm saying to bring up kind of a weird example, 718 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: I guess, is to think of Adolf Hitler, so al 719 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,480 Speaker 1: Adolf Hitler as an as the individual um was composed. 720 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 1: Like if you to take all of the chemicals and 721 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: elements that made up out of Hitler, not at one 722 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: particular point, but during the course of his lifetime, from 723 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: from from birth to death, and you were to put 724 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,279 Speaker 1: that in a certain volume, and then you were to say, 725 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,279 Speaker 1: where are all those elements now? It would be kind 726 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: of interesting to see. Are they part of the beautiful flower? 727 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: Are they part of somebody who's doing something really good 728 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 1: in the world? Are they just is it just part 729 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,360 Speaker 1: of the dirt on the floor, you know? Uh again, 730 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 1: everything that everything does keep going in these cycles. So um, 731 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,600 Speaker 1: in that sense, it's like the cyclical view of the 732 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 1: universe is is very valid, and so is the linear one. 733 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,880 Speaker 1: There's no discounting the linear nature of things. Because as um, 734 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: as Tim Modeling kept pointing out, he's like he was 735 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: making the point of saying, I'm I'm I'm completely convinced 736 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 1: that I decide in the morning, you know what I'm 737 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 1: going to have for breakfast, and then I have it 738 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: and things happen in this cycle. There's no there's no 739 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,799 Speaker 1: arguing that the way that we experience time. Well, it 740 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: was interesting because Paul Davies would take the other tact 741 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,239 Speaker 1: of well, there's no arguing there are two events at 742 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,799 Speaker 1: the beginning and the end. Is everything in between that's 743 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 1: sort of up for discussion. Yeah, there there you have it. 744 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: So hey, UM, thank you for coming along on this 745 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 1: this journey through time and timekeeping with us. UM Again, 746 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: we highly recommend you check out the World Science Festival's website. 747 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: You can check out the exact talk that we're talking 748 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: about here. A Matter of Time then featured Paul Davies, 749 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 1: Max tag Mark, Tim modlin H and others. Is really 750 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: delightful if you want, especially if you want to see 751 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 1: physicists and philosopher's butt heads um and if you would 752 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:35,799 Speaker 1: like to share your thoughts with us, we would love 753 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,440 Speaker 1: to hear from you about timekeeping devices, about your experience 754 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 1: of time, about how you're processing some of these ideas 755 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: that might be new to you, about the nature of 756 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 1: time and the way we experienced it. You can find 757 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 1: us in you know, all the normal places the Mothership. 758 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 1: The main place to go, of course, is Stuff to 759 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,399 Speaker 1: Blow your Mind dot com. That is where everything ends up, 760 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: where everything ends or begins in our universe. And you 761 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 1: can also find us on very social media platforms, including 762 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,400 Speaker 1: on Twitter where we are below the mind. You can 763 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,279 Speaker 1: find us on Facebook and Stuff to Blow your Mind 764 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 1: and on Tumbler is Stuff to Boil your mind, oh 765 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: and mind stuff show on YouTube. And you can also 766 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:16,399 Speaker 1: sling your arrow of time through an email. You can 767 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 1: send us an email that's what I'm saying, and you 768 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:25,760 Speaker 1: can do that at below the Mind at Discovery dot com. 769 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics because 770 00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:35,680 Speaker 1: it how stuff works. Dot Com