1
00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:03,200
Speaker 1: A zone media.

2
00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:05,800
Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let

3
00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,480
Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

4
00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,559
Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

5
00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:16,400
Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

6
00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:18,920
Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

7
00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:20,840
Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

8
00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:22,639
Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

9
00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:24,600
Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

10
00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:28,640
Speaker 3: Today, Shreen and I are talking to our friends at

11
00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:33,040
Speaker 3: PK Gaza our Meednabdullah. You might remember them from an

12
00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,760
Speaker 3: episode we did last October, and I've interviewed them before

13
00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,120
Speaker 3: for Men's Health magazine in the UK. PK Gazer is

14
00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:41,760
Speaker 3: a group that teaches parkour and free running to young

15
00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,600
Speaker 3: people in the Gaza strip. They've been doing this for

16
00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,559
Speaker 3: a long time and have some great videos you can

17
00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,199
Speaker 3: find all over social media and YouTube. Both our D

18
00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,560
Speaker 3: n Abdullah have the opportunity to leave Gaza. Our Ed

19
00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,080
Speaker 3: now lives in Sweden. Abdullah lives in Italy. We spoke

20
00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:58,960
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks ago, but very little has changed

21
00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,360
Speaker 3: since then, and I just wanted to note that Abdalla's

22
00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:03,800
Speaker 3: audio is a little bit rough, but we thought what

23
00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,000
Speaker 3: he had to say was really important, so we hope

24
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:07,440
Speaker 3: that you'll take the time to listen to it.

25
00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,720
Speaker 1: My name is Ahmed Matar. I am at twenty eight

26
00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:15,640
Speaker 1: years old at the moment. I'm Palestinian from Gaza. Currently.

27
00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,880
Speaker 1: I live in Sweden since eight years ago. And yeah,

28
00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,240
Speaker 1: I live in Sweden. I worked with Parkour and I

29
00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,839
Speaker 1: left from Parkour and that's what I do here. And

30
00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,240
Speaker 1: the last summer was my first time visiting Gaza since

31
00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:39,640
Speaker 1: eight years and yeah, but I'm back in Sweden. I

32
00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:43,319
Speaker 1: was back in Sweden one month before the war started again.

33
00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:49,480
Speaker 1: And yeah, a lot of a lot of things to say,

34
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:55,080
Speaker 1: a lot of things to express, and but yeah, that's me,

35
00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,960
Speaker 1: Ahmed Matar, twenty years old from Gaza.

36
00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,920
Speaker 4: I've a nice to meet you all. I'm a Puga

37
00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:07,680
Speaker 4: stop and I'm twenty seven years old. I'm also Palestinian.

38
00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,639
Speaker 4: I'm proud of that. I think the city originally and

39
00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:15,040
Speaker 4: you live in Italy right now. For the most three years.

40
00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,120
Speaker 5: We wanted to talk to them about how it feels

41
00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,840
Speaker 5: to be outside of Gaza and wake up every day

42
00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,480
Speaker 5: wondering if a bomb has killed your family or if

43
00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:24,720
Speaker 5: your family is getting enough to eat?

44
00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,320
Speaker 3: How have you been coping with, like dealing with It's

45
00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,440
Speaker 3: bad enough for those of us who don't have family,

46
00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,560
Speaker 3: watching the horrible things that happen every day, and like

47
00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:36,000
Speaker 3: every morning you look on your phone and it's something worse.

48
00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:38,760
Speaker 3: How has it been for you, guys? Just to give

49
00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:40,680
Speaker 3: people an insight into how you're coping.

50
00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:46,360
Speaker 1: From my side, I can say, yeah, life is a

51
00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:51,480
Speaker 1: stop since the day that the war started. Six months

52
00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:56,080
Speaker 1: since this war, and every day just watching the news.

53
00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,040
Speaker 1: I go to work and then I come back while

54
00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,919
Speaker 1: while I'm at war, I'm just watching the news. I'm

55
00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:08,120
Speaker 1: lessening to the news, and that was my life since

56
00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:13,720
Speaker 1: six months at the moment, and I don't feel to

57
00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,560
Speaker 1: do anything else. I cannot feel like to train, and

58
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,840
Speaker 1: I cannot feel like to enjoy or to forget what's

59
00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,960
Speaker 1: going on there because it's my family there, my friends,

60
00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,560
Speaker 1: my people. If I feel like I want to forget

61
00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:33,639
Speaker 1: about it, it feel like I'm I'm like betraying my people,

62
00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,680
Speaker 1: my family. So I prefer to just watch the news,

63
00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:44,760
Speaker 1: feel the same as them, and just do my best

64
00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:49,000
Speaker 1: to help them with what I can. But it's actually

65
00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:55,960
Speaker 1: like I just feel helpless at the moment that I

66
00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,840
Speaker 1: cannot do anything to them in that situation like this,

67
00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:00,360
Speaker 1: the moment.

68
00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,840
Speaker 5: Oh Dulla said that when he chose to leave Gaza,

69
00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,320
Speaker 5: it was one of the most difficult moments of his

70
00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,800
Speaker 5: entire life. He knew that if he stayed, there wasn't

71
00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:11,839
Speaker 5: much hope for his future, and he'd have to give

72
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,360
Speaker 5: up on so many of his dreams that would be

73
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,600
Speaker 5: achievable if he hadn't been born in an open air prison.

74
00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,200
Speaker 5: Now that he's left, he can pursue his dreams in Italy,

75
00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,200
Speaker 5: but he struggles to express how difficult he has been

76
00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:28,159
Speaker 5: finding being so isolated and distant from his friends and family.

77
00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:30,960
Speaker 4: I mean, one of the most important things in all

78
00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,400
Speaker 4: life is it's not really the most important in his family

79
00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,520
Speaker 4: since I really lived Italy. It was not really easy

80
00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,400
Speaker 4: for me because he knew that I would be alone

81
00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,359
Speaker 4: and I would be away from my family. But I

82
00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,760
Speaker 4: took that decision because they knew that somehow I had to,

83
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:49,760
Speaker 4: let's say, somehow to sacrifice, and because you know, I

84
00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,480
Speaker 4: was focusing somehow on my future, my goals, which was

85
00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,160
Speaker 4: not really almost impossible. It's impossible to do it where

86
00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:58,320
Speaker 4: I was, which is going to.

87
00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:02,320
Speaker 6: See it was the hardest decision of made ever in

88
00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,559
Speaker 6: my life, that even before anything really started, I'm going

89
00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:10,320
Speaker 6: to explain how I feel since months back.

90
00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,240
Speaker 4: I'm sure that everybody knows right now if he's going

91
00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,240
Speaker 4: to put himself in my place, that he wouldn't have

92
00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,599
Speaker 4: the right words to express his feelings. And I'm sure

93
00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,560
Speaker 4: and I'm someone right now who doesn't really have the

94
00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,760
Speaker 4: right words to suppress it them to tell you what

95
00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,359
Speaker 4: I feel and how I feel, because it's it's not

96
00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:34,640
Speaker 4: something that's easy for anyone to experience in his life.

97
00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:36,800
Speaker 4: So that's how I feel.

98
00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,560
Speaker 3: We wanted to ask him how they were able to

99
00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,240
Speaker 3: keep in touch with their families. I remember I was

100
00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,080
Speaker 3: talking to Upmed in October and like we were talking

101
00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,120
Speaker 3: about how hard it was just to find out if

102
00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,520
Speaker 3: your families were okay every day, right, like just to

103
00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,600
Speaker 3: contact them and check is that still the case? Like

104
00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,400
Speaker 3: how has it been just trying to contact your families

105
00:05:57,839 --> 00:05:59,120
Speaker 3: over the last six months?

106
00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:01,839
Speaker 1: It is actually still the same that they have to

107
00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,440
Speaker 1: try calling and calling and calling the whole day until

108
00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:10,560
Speaker 1: they catch up, like the connection is cut off or

109
00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:15,400
Speaker 1: it's almost like impossible to get connected with them. So

110
00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,560
Speaker 1: I have to try the whole day until like I

111
00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,240
Speaker 1: get someone answering me because it's like I guess it's

112
00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,479
Speaker 1: because it's a small place where they are, like in

113
00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,480
Speaker 1: Rapa and there's more than one and a half million

114
00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:34,080
Speaker 1: people and everyone is trying to call to Gaza and

115
00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,480
Speaker 1: to check with everybody in there, so it's make it

116
00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,839
Speaker 1: hard to get connected easily with them. So I try

117
00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:48,200
Speaker 1: like every day. For sure, I in the end, it's

118
00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,720
Speaker 1: better than before. At the moment when they were in Canyonits,

119
00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:56,080
Speaker 1: it was like that I had to ask my friends

120
00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,839
Speaker 1: who levey close to my area and then they tell

121
00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:02,760
Speaker 1: me if my family are or not. And sometimes I

122
00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,080
Speaker 1: I'm having no information about them for a whole week

123
00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,920
Speaker 1: and just worry to if everything is okay with them.

124
00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,720
Speaker 1: At the moment, I just wish for the best. That's

125
00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,520
Speaker 1: what I am at home, wishing everything is okay with them,

126
00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:24,640
Speaker 1: but without knowing if it's them or another family who

127
00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,840
Speaker 1: got boned, because the TV is not showing a name

128
00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,480
Speaker 1: or a family anymore, because it's you know, you're talking

129
00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:37,240
Speaker 1: about more than thirty five thousand people getting killed, and

130
00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:42,040
Speaker 1: to mention the names of every person getting killed, it's

131
00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,480
Speaker 1: something impossible in the media. I guess I.

132
00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,640
Speaker 4: Just want to mention, how does it feel for anyone

133
00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,360
Speaker 4: who's really listening right now? How does it feel if

134
00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,239
Speaker 4: you know that you know someone who's really the most

135
00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,360
Speaker 4: important in your life, and you know the team in

136
00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,720
Speaker 4: danger somehow, and you're trying to call one day to

137
00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,520
Speaker 4: day through three days or even four weeks. Sometimes sometimes

138
00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,000
Speaker 4: they even it happened two weeks and a few weeks,

139
00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,640
Speaker 4: and you know that people they are dying every day,

140
00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:17,560
Speaker 4: and it might be someone from your family that you know,

141
00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,920
Speaker 4: like something you know happen and you cannot reach them

142
00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,400
Speaker 4: because of the signal, because of the collection of good

143
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,360
Speaker 4: whatever it is, How would you feel A.

144
00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,000
Speaker 3: Had said he hadn't actually seen his family for nearly

145
00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,360
Speaker 3: a month because they hadn't had good enough signal for

146
00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,120
Speaker 3: a call. Abdullah, on the other hand, hasn't even seen

147
00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,520
Speaker 3: a picture of his family's its bombs begin to fall

148
00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:43,400
Speaker 3: on the place where he grew up six months ago,

149
00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:44,920
Speaker 3: like I have not.

150
00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,840
Speaker 1: Seen my family like face to face on a camera

151
00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:53,000
Speaker 1: or for more than three weeks at the moment the

152
00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:55,280
Speaker 1: moment I saw them, And they have to go somewhere

153
00:08:55,280 --> 00:09:01,120
Speaker 1: really high building too, so they can have internet. If

154
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,240
Speaker 1: they get this internet, and in the same time it's

155
00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,880
Speaker 1: very dangerous for them to go on a high buildings.

156
00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:12,520
Speaker 1: So yeah, you know, sometimes when my father sent me

157
00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,800
Speaker 1: a picture of him on messenger more than a month ago,

158
00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:19,640
Speaker 1: and then I was like just choked, how to see

159
00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:25,839
Speaker 1: his white hair, like oh, gray hair everywhere, and he

160
00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,760
Speaker 1: just changed in these six months totally, like I would

161
00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:34,840
Speaker 1: not recognize the same person like he was before the war,

162
00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,760
Speaker 1: because I was there seven months ago in Gaza and

163
00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:44,040
Speaker 1: he was totally young, like you know, he's just fifty

164
00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:48,000
Speaker 1: years but it's not that he had gray hair everywhere

165
00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,360
Speaker 1: like how I saw in his picture. And then I

166
00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:56,000
Speaker 1: see how suffering they are facing, how tough life they

167
00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:00,400
Speaker 1: are having at the moment, just through his face, his yeah,

168
00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,400
Speaker 1: his picture that he sent to me, which is really

169
00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:08,800
Speaker 1: just for sure heir to see that, how how they

170
00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:15,840
Speaker 1: are growing too fast because of this genocide we only come.

171
00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:21,480
Speaker 4: I just want to add that I'm happy that you

172
00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,240
Speaker 4: Ahmed to be the chance to to see your father.

173
00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,840
Speaker 4: I still for the last six months I didn't see

174
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,000
Speaker 4: a picture or didn't want to pull my father.

175
00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:41,880
Speaker 1: Just understand, I they really risk their life to go

176
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:46,400
Speaker 1: and talk to me. And then I always I also

177
00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,520
Speaker 1: tell them to not do that. When I when I

178
00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:54,760
Speaker 1: see them going to that building or where they go

179
00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,120
Speaker 1: to get the internet, I was just telling them go home,

180
00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,480
Speaker 1: be at a safer area. But still like they tell

181
00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,600
Speaker 1: me there's no safe area. There is no safe area,

182
00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,160
Speaker 1: and there is. It's the same anywhere, but then it's

183
00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:14,320
Speaker 1: still like, yeah, it's a It gives more fear that

184
00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,720
Speaker 1: when you are on a high building, any high building

185
00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:38,760
Speaker 1: getting targeted in Gaza.

186
00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,720
Speaker 5: I have been having an extremely hard time looking at

187
00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,240
Speaker 5: what's happening through my phone, witnessing the suffering of people

188
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,360
Speaker 5: who might as well be my family. They all look

189
00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,000
Speaker 5: and sound like my cousins, my aunts, my uncles, my parents,

190
00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:57,280
Speaker 5: my siblings. I can't even imagine experiencing this if it

191
00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,840
Speaker 5: was my actual family. I genuinely don't know how I

192
00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,000
Speaker 5: could cope with not being able to reach them for months,

193
00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,320
Speaker 5: or not even knowing if they're okay. I wanted to

194
00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,080
Speaker 5: know if Ahmad Dinner Bellah have found ways to cope,

195
00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,160
Speaker 5: or at least ways to get through each day. Do

196
00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,400
Speaker 5: you guys have a community that you can reach out to.

197
00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,280
Speaker 5: Do you guys talk to each other a lot? How

198
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,040
Speaker 5: How do you guys stay sane, like, how do you

199
00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,000
Speaker 5: not lose your mind? Just as everyone else goes about

200
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:24,439
Speaker 5: their life.

201
00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,960
Speaker 1: We talk to each other, mean abdollah, almost every day

202
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,160
Speaker 1: in the evening, we spend like more than four hours

203
00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,439
Speaker 1: at least in a call. And besides that, yeah, while

204
00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,480
Speaker 1: we are sitting calling each other, we are watching the news,

205
00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:43,640
Speaker 1: and yeah, we have to be informed about everything is happening.

206
00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,959
Speaker 1: That's how it make us feel better at least to

207
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,480
Speaker 1: know what's going on and to follow the news. Thing

208
00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,000
Speaker 1: else can help it. I think I would not feel

209
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,600
Speaker 1: happy to go and enjoy while my family is not enjoying.

210
00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,480
Speaker 1: And yeah, I don't feel good about it. It's not

211
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:11,680
Speaker 1: that I I should enjoy, it's I feel like I'm

212
00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,920
Speaker 1: not gonna enjoy until my family is safe. Until my

213
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:20,720
Speaker 1: family is enjoying, and this is gonna take years, I guess.

214
00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:22,080
Speaker 4: You know.

215
00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:28,960
Speaker 1: The aroma troma is that affected them from this genocide

216
00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:33,840
Speaker 1: is gonna take a while to hear to recover. They

217
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:38,680
Speaker 1: will take long time to recover from this. And I

218
00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:40,679
Speaker 1: don't know if I am affected by it or not.

219
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,160
Speaker 1: But you know, my life, as I told you, has

220
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:47,400
Speaker 1: been just watching news for six months and nothing else.

221
00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:49,959
Speaker 1: I don't know how is that affecting me in the

222
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:56,920
Speaker 1: long run, like after the war ends. But for me,

223
00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,840
Speaker 1: Parker has always been a way to to recover, and

224
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,000
Speaker 1: I'm sure Parker will help me later.

225
00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,920
Speaker 4: I'm always trying to say to talk to myself because

226
00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,480
Speaker 4: I guess it's really important. Everybody has to talk to himself,

227
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,520
Speaker 4: because it's the most important thing that Yeah, I'm your

228
00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:19,000
Speaker 4: positive people's believe I'm not to lose your mind, tries

229
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:23,120
Speaker 4: just to be normal because of the end anyway, you

230
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,000
Speaker 4: don't have anything that you can do in your hand.

231
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:25,320
Speaker 7: You know.

232
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,960
Speaker 4: That you cannot change something like I already have fen

233
00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,080
Speaker 4: of mind. I really told that I'm really proud of

234
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:39,560
Speaker 4: myself that at least I'm trying to stay normal. I'm

235
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:44,760
Speaker 4: trying to keep myself and act as a normal person.

236
00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,880
Speaker 4: But the main question is I don't know will I

237
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:53,120
Speaker 4: would be able to. I'm afraid that once it's going

238
00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,080
Speaker 4: to happen, that I'm going to lose everything and I'm

239
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,680
Speaker 4: going to destroy everything. And of course, you know, sometimes

240
00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:02,400
Speaker 4: I'm trying to do out. I'm not trying to be alone,

241
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,560
Speaker 4: just trying to keep my mind and my life a

242
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:08,600
Speaker 4: little bit more busy as much seek.

243
00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,880
Speaker 3: I've known Abdullah and I've made and several other members

244
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,080
Speaker 3: of PK Gaza since twenty twenty. I worked on a

245
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,680
Speaker 3: story about him in twenty twenty one, which was about

246
00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,280
Speaker 3: the last time I could sell stories on gadz because

247
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,360
Speaker 3: for the most part, you only get to write about

248
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,680
Speaker 3: people in Gaza when they're dying. I asked them about

249
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:27,240
Speaker 3: the well being of some of the other members of

250
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:27,640
Speaker 3: the team.

251
00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,960
Speaker 1: Side, Yeah, he's in our thoughts all the time and

252
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,080
Speaker 1: we will never forget. And for sure for Side was

253
00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,720
Speaker 1: like the last person I saw in Gaza when I

254
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:41,640
Speaker 1: left Gaza, and.

255
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:45,640
Speaker 7: He was with me.

256
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,840
Speaker 1: Helping me with everything, like so I can live from

257
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,760
Speaker 1: Gaza to Egypt. So he was helping me with all

258
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,720
Speaker 1: the process I need in the crossing area because it's

259
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,880
Speaker 1: very busy and you need to know people in the

260
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:06,120
Speaker 1: crossing area so they can fix you and help you

261
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:10,280
Speaker 1: and carry my stuff with me. And I no say it.

262
00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:14,840
Speaker 1: Since I was born, I can say Said's father and

263
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:21,520
Speaker 1: my father are very close friends. And since I grew up,

264
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:26,200
Speaker 1: like since I started to be aware on this life.

265
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:31,520
Speaker 1: I met Said and we were friends, neighbors. We were

266
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:37,360
Speaker 1: always playing together, and then we decided to go for

267
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,600
Speaker 1: a kung fu club and we started to train kung

268
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,400
Speaker 1: fu and martial arts together. And at the age of

269
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:51,080
Speaker 1: nine years me and Said also met Abdullah and met

270
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,840
Speaker 1: the other guys who does also martial arts, so we

271
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:59,120
Speaker 1: started to do martial arts together. And then we met

272
00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,720
Speaker 1: a Barker guy Mohammed Jakhbir and Abdo lan Chassi, which

273
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:08,560
Speaker 1: made us turn into Barkour after and everything I was

274
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,680
Speaker 1: doing in like in my sports life and outside of

275
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,399
Speaker 1: my sports life, I was always meeting Side as a friend,

276
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,000
Speaker 1: as a brother and we were at each other's houses

277
00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:27,879
Speaker 1: and eating together. And yeah, Side was really meaning a

278
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,960
Speaker 1: lot to me because I have always known him as

279
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,879
Speaker 1: the good guy who help everyone who need help.

280
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:35,359
Speaker 8: And the.

281
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:41,680
Speaker 1: Lately say it was like the manager of the Barker

282
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,560
Speaker 1: Academy that we created there and he was taking care

283
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:49,680
Speaker 1: and teaching kids for free and volunteering and putting from

284
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,320
Speaker 1: his time so more kids can go there and learn

285
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,639
Speaker 1: Barkour and my brother was one of them and he

286
00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:01,320
Speaker 1: was helping him. And during this war, Side was the

287
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:06,040
Speaker 1: only one that informs me about my family in about

288
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,040
Speaker 1: how they are because he was the only one. He

289
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,800
Speaker 1: was connected to the internet at that time. So I

290
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:17,199
Speaker 1: was going through him about my family, and we were

291
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:18,960
Speaker 1: talking every day during.

292
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:19,480
Speaker 9: This war, and.

293
00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:27,600
Speaker 1: Suddenly I just saw new it is about. That he

294
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:33,000
Speaker 1: got killed together with his brothers while trying to rescue

295
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:37,520
Speaker 1: some people from under the rabbit and then another rocket

296
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:43,320
Speaker 1: upon them and killed them all. I could not understand

297
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:48,120
Speaker 1: it and still cannot believe that Side is gone. It's

298
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,320
Speaker 1: something that I would not believe that they go to

299
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,600
Speaker 1: gas and say it is not there. I cannot imagine

300
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,000
Speaker 1: how it feels to his father, to his mother, and

301
00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,240
Speaker 1: that they lost the three of their sons at once. Yeah.

302
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:03,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, but.

303
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,879
Speaker 1: Side will always be in our memory, in our heart

304
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,800
Speaker 1: that we will never forget Palestinias.

305
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,399
Speaker 4: They are really different than anybody else. When the bonds

306
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,880
Speaker 4: really happening, everybody just trying to scale. Everybody's just trying

307
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,679
Speaker 4: to run away. What Side and his brothers did. They

308
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,640
Speaker 4: just went after that building was bombed. They just went

309
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:29,000
Speaker 4: to help others, to take others from Aldo Drepol, you know,

310
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,119
Speaker 4: to help them to see if they are injuries. If

311
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,720
Speaker 4: they are you know, they can't help others. And that

312
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,200
Speaker 4: was their fault that they were trying just to help

313
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:42,600
Speaker 4: others and then they could pomp three of them. That's

314
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,840
Speaker 4: that's what happened with them, and that's what most of

315
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:53,000
Speaker 4: the plastina durns. But they were really prayed, and yeah,

316
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:58,760
Speaker 4: it's it's it's such a ross that nobody can can imagine.

317
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,960
Speaker 3: It's hard enough for you a friend, so suddenly it's

318
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,000
Speaker 3: even harder when you have been able to see them

319
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,440
Speaker 3: for months and never got to say goodbye. We asked

320
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 3: about the last time they spoke to their friend, and

321
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 3: we asked him to share some of their memories of him.

322
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:16,240
Speaker 1: So he was aside, was telling me, listen to this sound,

323
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,440
Speaker 1: and then while listening, I was just hearing shooting. And

324
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 1: then he was telling me, this is a quad Captor.

325
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,200
Speaker 1: The quad chapter is like a drone that is developed

326
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,480
Speaker 1: to shoot at the same time so it can film

327
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,240
Speaker 1: and see everything moving and shooting it at the same time,

328
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,920
Speaker 1: so it can kill people which is moving. And he

329
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 1: tells me that everything is moving in this area, everything

330
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 1: is moving around us, is getting shot. And he was

331
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:48,680
Speaker 1: at his home and together with his family, and I

332
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 1: was telling him, just saying, leave the area. Go somewhere

333
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 1: that is better, safer or something that you don't have

334
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 1: to hear this sound. You maybe can get killed inside

335
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 1: your home because you know this squad captures is a

336
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:09,119
Speaker 1: drone that can go inside windows, anything that it can

337
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 1: go from the roof and enter your home. Yeah, that's

338
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 1: what he told me. What he told me was like, yeah,

339
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 1: but if I live home, I will get killed. And

340
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 1: if I if I leave another place, I will also

341
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,120
Speaker 1: get killed because it's not safe anywhere. It's the same.

342
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 1: So if I die at our home or outside our home,

343
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:38,240
Speaker 1: it's the same. And in the end, I go to

344
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,880
Speaker 1: the heaven. It's directly it's better for me. And that's

345
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,600
Speaker 1: what he was saying, and that's what he received. He

346
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:50,479
Speaker 1: wanted the heaven, I guess. And but we we wanted

347
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,919
Speaker 1: him back in our life. We did not want him

348
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: to go. But yeah, that's life. Take the good people

349
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:00,919
Speaker 1: for us always.

350
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 3: That's the end of part one, but we'll be back tomorrow.

351
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 3: It was the second part of our interview with Avemed

352
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,120
Speaker 3: and Abdullah Gaza Pakur.

353
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 5: Since October seventh, Israel has killed tens of thousands of

354
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:26,359
Speaker 5: Palestinian civilians, many of them children. All over the world,

355
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,679
Speaker 5: people have taken to the streets to call for an

356
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 5: end to the killing, to show solidarity with the people

357
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 5: of Palestine amidst their genocide. This is an unprecedented act

358
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,879
Speaker 5: of solidarity, but it's also been a long time coming,

359
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 5: and we wanted to know how it made Ahmed and

360
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 5: Abdullah feel.

361
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 1: I walk in the straights here in Sweden and they

362
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 1: see the people wearing the koffe Yah, the Palestinian Kofeya,

363
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: and it's something that made me feel for sure happy

364
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 1: and to see that the people start to be aware

365
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: of what's going on in Palestine in us, start to

366
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 1: understand that we have occupation, that we that finally you

367
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 1: need to look in our cause and solve it. This

368
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 1: is Ballistine, this is Palestinians that they need their freedom,

369
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 1: they need to live as any other person or on

370
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: this earth. And to see this support of the people,

371
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: it's the most important for us to to live. It

372
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 1: gives us a sense of freedom while we are not

373
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 1: free yet, just make us give us hope that something

374
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 1: will happen in the future. It's because it's a story

375
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 1: of obbressed people who have been suffering, suffering for years,

376
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 1: and I guess these people need attention, need the more

377
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: effort of the so they can get their freedom as

378
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: as they have when they have done about the black

379
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: lives matters. And it's also it should it should come

380
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: from the people. That's how the world get affected. If

381
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 1: the people go against their governments, against the the decisions

382
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:25,120
Speaker 1: of their leaders, that's what gonna change the public opinion,

383
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 1: the leader's opinion.

384
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 3: Also, I wanted to ask about, like people want to

385
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 3: help now more than I think they ever have in

386
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 3: this country. People are aware, people who weren't aware before,

387
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 3: People who couldn't have told you, like where like Palestine

388
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 3: was in relation to the map, Maybe now want to help.

389
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 10: And that's cool, that's great.

390
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 3: Like I think obviously people have a lot of learning

391
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 3: to do, because this isn't an issue that's been very

392
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 3: well covered by the media in the US for decades. Right,

393
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 3: the media in this country has also dedicated itself to

394
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 3: dehumanizing Muslim people for a very long time, but extensively

395
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 3: over the last twenty years. So, like two things that

396
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 3: come out of that. I want to ask, like, if

397
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 3: people want to help and they have money, that tend

398
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 3: to be the easiest way to make a difference, Right,

399
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 3: But you've told me before, a lot of the angios,

400
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 3: your parents, your families end up buying the food that

401
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 3: gets donated, So is there an engio that's better? And

402
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 3: then like what can people do to learn? I guess

403
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 3: like to learn more. I mean either from you guys,

404
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 3: or things or books or films that you think are good.

405
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 1: I mean the all the companies or the organizations that

406
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: works in as are Yeah, for sure, they're trying their best.

407
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, as you have seen that most of the

408
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 1: trucks are standing outside Rapa crossing and they are just

409
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: allowing two hundred trucks a day for two million people

410
00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: who are hungry are suffering. So yeah, for sure, like

411
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 1: the food is not enough, and when someone wants to

412
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 1: get this food, he have to or he or she

413
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 1: they have to buy the food and it's more than

414
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: tin times more expensive than what it was before, and

415
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 1: sometimes it reaches even more and even the vegetables, it's

416
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: like higher than the price is here in Europe. Imagine

417
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: like a country under a war, no work, no jobs,

418
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: everything is stopped and the prices are going higher and

419
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 1: higher because the stuff is very limited and the food

420
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: is limited and everything is limited. So for sure, like

421
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: people want to sell the stuff that they have so

422
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: they can ear money so they can buy another stuff.

423
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 1: And that's how the people are doing in Gaza. So

424
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: if they get something maybe for free, which is very

425
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: rare that it happened because it's too many people. For example,

426
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 1: my family are buying the food, and I know how

427
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: it is for them that it is hard for them

428
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 1: to get the stuff that they even need because all

429
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: what they have is food that is backed in cans,

430
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: beans mostly beans actually, and that's what they have everything.

431
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: They tell me we have been eating beans or a

432
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: lot of these and pasta and they buy this stuff.

433
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: It's not that it's for free sometimes every other month,

434
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 1: every other two months to get a bag of flours

435
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 1: so they can make bread.

436
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 5: And it's not just food aid that can be hard

437
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 5: to get your hands on in Gaza. Even sending money

438
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 5: is difficult.

439
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is starvation for the people. People are really

440
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: like suffering from that and cannot imagine And how is

441
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: my family living that situation, because I really find it

442
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: hard these times they even send my family money because

443
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: of how like most of the offices are closed that

444
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: can that can receive money from outside Gaza. So it's

445
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: most of the offices are very busy that they have

446
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: to stand in a queue for more than ten hours

447
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: five hours sometimes and in the end they tell them, oh,

448
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 1: we're sorry, we are out of cash, and that's what happens. Yeah,

449
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: and I imagine like the same money going and coming back.

450
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: So it's sometimes there is nothing in the banks, there

451
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: is nothing in the offices that is exchanging and receiving

452
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: money from outside. Like Western Union is not working anymore,

453
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: money Gram is not working, and now the people are

454
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: using something like a crepit coin like USDT, and and

455
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: you know, to send one hundred dollars for example, they

456
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: take like more than fifteen percent of that, and then

457
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: in the same time you also have to pay another

458
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: ten percent or five percent for sending because the USDT

459
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: is not equal with the USD because in the corrective

460
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: coin it's more expensive, so you need to pay more

461
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: dollars to get USDT and then there they receive it

462
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: as a dollar. So yeah, to support, I suggest if

463
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: anyone wants to support or have the money that wants

464
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: support a family or peopulling as the only thing is

465
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: to actually contact the family that they want to support directly,

466
00:29:54,000 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: because yeah, the all the support that goes through the organizations,

467
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: the international organizations takes very long time and in the

468
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: end it triches Gaza and the it's not enough for

469
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: the people, and then the Bible have to buy it.

470
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: It's not that Ghaza for free.

471
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 5: Although millions of people are trapped in Gaza right now,

472
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 5: we also know that some Gazans have been able to leave.

473
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 5: We've seen fundraisers pop up for people trying to get

474
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 5: themselves or their families out of Gaza. We asked Ahmed

475
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 5: and Andola if they had an idea how much it

476
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 5: would cost to leave Gaza right now.

477
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: But then imagine Egyptians government are charging five thousand dollars

478
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: for each truck entering Gaza, and they're charging every person

479
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars to leave from Gaza. So it's something

480
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: else to help with. If you want to help someone

481
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: to live from Gaza, is also help our families or

482
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: something like that.

483
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 4: I can say.

484
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm trying to get my family out of

485
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: there because I don't see any better future in Gaza

486
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: at the moment. Imagine like this, what happened to Gaza

487
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: will need at least more than ten years to recover.

488
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: All the schools are destroyed, all the houses, our home

489
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: is bombed, you know, to rebuild a home, it's not

490
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: just about rebuilding a home.

491
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 3: Even if the bombing stopped today, the crisis woulden't. Almost

492
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 3: all of Gaza's infrastructure, it's hospitals, universities, schools, and streets

493
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 3: has been destroyed. There's nothing left in Gaza. There's nowhere

494
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 3: to go if you're sick. There's nowhere to buy food

495
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 3: or clothes for your children. There's no where to buy

496
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 3: the materials to fix your bombed house. Given all of this,

497
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 3: it's hard to see a future for people there, which

498
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 3: isn't very difficult. So we asked Abdollah, not made about rebuilding.

499
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: You need to rebuild everything. You know, where will the

500
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: water go, Where will the water come from? The electricity?

501
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: Everything is bombed. You know, you need to build a

502
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: whole new city, which will take at least at least

503
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: at least at least ten years. It's much much more.

504
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: And the affection of it on the Bible themselves also,

505
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: what they have suffered, what they have, you know, it's

506
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: going to take them a long time to heal. So

507
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: I think I did not want to take a step

508
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: a step like this, but I will ask in the

509
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: end my people who follow me to if they want

510
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: to support the people and if they want to support

511
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: any member of my family to get out of Gaza,

512
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: because I don't see it any better and I'm not

513
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: ready to lose any of my family. And yeah, I imagine,

514
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: like I have a brother who's twelve years old at

515
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: the moment, and I have a sister which turned sixteen,

516
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: and another sister which has two kids, and one of

517
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: them was born in the war, like four months old

518
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: at the moment, And what about these kids, what will

519
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: they do if they stay in Gaza. And you can

520
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: apply that on the rest of Gaza people. Abdalla's family

521
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: and his brother's sons, his brother's kids. So yeah, that's

522
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: the best is I don't know, but most many, many

523
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: people want to really get out of there at the

524
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: moment because they think about what happened to Gaza. It

525
00:33:55,600 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: will take years, and it's my family's future, and they

526
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 1: don't know for how long it will take to fix

527
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: this future if they stay in Gaza and if they

528
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 1: still stay alive, because if they inter Gazza. At the moment,

529
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: my family is in Rafa and close to the borders

530
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 1: area with Egypt, and that's the only place where are

531
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: most of the people at the moment. Like more than

532
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: one and a half million are staying in a very

533
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: small area and Israel inter Rafa. That will be just yeah,

534
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: the huge is disaster that could ever happen on earth.

535
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 1: That imagine thirty six thousand people killed, and that's the

536
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: one that is confirmed on the list that they found,

537
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 1: but you know, thousands and thousands are like they cannot confirm,

538
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: like they already unknown, they don't know who they are.

539
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: And there's thousands under the rabble that they cannot get

540
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: out and many missings, so it can be it could

541
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: reach to one hundred thousand together with the injured people.

542
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 1: And that's not a small number. And imagine if the

543
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: enter to a place like Trafa, that will be just

544
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 1: like double what have happened at least I hope that

545
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: with not having but I see that Israelis are very

546
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: decided that they want to do that even if no

547
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 1: one would be able to stop them, they say, and

548
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 1: they would do it even without the support of anyone,

549
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: without the support of the USA or without and that

550
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 1: shows how criminals they are. I can say that they

551
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: want just to slaughter all the people in Gaza. They

552
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: don't care about civilian or not civilian.

553
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I.

554
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 1: Want to do my best to help my family, and

555
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 1: they see.

556
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 8: I have to.

557
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 1: To take them to a several place and I don't

558
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: know if it's possible of this day in Gaza.

559
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 3: Like anyone else, Armed and Abdullah want their families to

560
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 3: be safe. But because they were born in Palestine, they

561
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,479
Speaker 3: don't have the privilege of not having to constantly worry

562
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 3: about their families safety. They also don't get to be

563
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 3: the ones making choices to impact their safety. Instead, these

564
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 3: choices are made by other people. Those people don't know

565
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 3: are mad n Abdullah or their families. They might be

566
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 3: IDF Terir own operators or US diplomats. To those people,

567
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 3: their families are just numbers, but are made and Abdullah,

568
00:36:58,200 --> 00:36:59,479
Speaker 3: their families are their whole world.

569
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: How it works to get people out of Gaza is

570
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: like you have to send someone in Egypt to pay

571
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: for the government in Egypt. So they put their names

572
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,240
Speaker 1: in the last of Rapha borders so they can travel.

573
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: That's how it works. So and they charge every person

574
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: at least five thousand. You pay more than you are

575
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: able to leave earlier. If you don't pay, or you

576
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 1: pay five thousand, you stay and wait in the queue.

577
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: If you don't pay you die in Gaza. Yeah, you're

578
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: worth nothing. That's how it is. I don't know how

579
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 1: it is for Abdullah. How does he feel about the

580
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: future of Gaza at the moment? How do you feel

581
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: like for the next ten years watching your family? I

582
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: cannot imagine. That's the thing. That's why it lead me

583
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 1: to steps like that, because I always never wanted to

584
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:57,720
Speaker 1: My family are very you know, loving to the country

585
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: that they don't want to leave Gaza. My mother was like, no,

586
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: we build home first, and I was telling trying to

587
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: convince her by just explaining the situation and the next

588
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: ten years from now, which is another disaster after the war,

589
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: which is make her understand more of the effort so

590
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: true to think about her children future and yeah, but

591
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: in the same time, I understand the love for the country.

592
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 1: I always love Gaza and they even have Gaza and

593
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: everything in my life, I have it in my name

594
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: even like I always if I say my name, I

595
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 1: say I'm Mather Gaza as as my name. You know,

596
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: I don't say I'm a'm at mother in my social

597
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:52,399
Speaker 1: media even it says Mather Gaza since always not during

598
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 1: the war, and it's because I'm proud to be from

599
00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 1: there because it's the place that taught me the strength.

600
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: It gave me, the bower it gave me like it

601
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: taught me a lot of values that I use in

602
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 1: my life at the moment. That made me patient, made

603
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 1: me strong, and that's what is Gaza. It made me

604
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: the person I am that I always hope and I

605
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: always dream. I always have an x to dream because

606
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 1: we always dream. As a bit of beeble from Gaza.

607
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 5: Al Billa told us that his family is similar to Ahmed's,

608
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 5: not wanting to leave Gaza because of their love of

609
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 5: the land. Their priorities are to help their families. He

610
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 5: said that when people ask him how can I help,

611
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 5: his view is that everyone has their own way of supporting.

612
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 5: It does not necessarily have to mean financial help if

613
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 5: that is not a possibility for someone. He stressed the

614
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,280
Speaker 5: importance of posting on social media to continue spreading awareness

615
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,800
Speaker 5: and how the Palestinian struggle is a struggle that concerns

616
00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 5: all of humanity.

617
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: You know, the beginning I was, I was thinking like

618
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: I want to go to Gas directly after this or

619
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: during the war. But the wars I see it, the

620
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 1: harder it make it like that even if I go,

621
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: what will it help with my family? Like home is destroyed.

622
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: Everything is destroyed, not just our home, our whole area,

623
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 1: like our neighbors, everything or our hood is destroyed, which

624
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 1: is as we said, would take long time to fix.

625
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,919
Speaker 1: So going to Gas, yeah, for sure it can help.

626
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: But in the same time, in the long run, it's

627
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: not the the thing will that will make a change

628
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: for my family's safety and future. And that's why I

629
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: don't know. I am stuck in between two things, like

630
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: going to the place where I grow, where I learned

631
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 1: all of these values to be strong, and but in

632
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: the same time living life where everything is destroyed, where

633
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: you don't have a future, or decide to be in

634
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: a severe place where you may be fix the future,

635
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: but away from your country, from your heart, because you know,

636
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: for us, Gaza is our heart. We really love Gaza.

637
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 1: We care about everything in Gaza. But that's where I

638
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:45,760
Speaker 1: am stuck between safety and future and the heart Gaza,

639
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 1: the place where we love.

640
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 5: We really appreciate you, both of you guys, sharing your

641
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 5: your feelings and your stories. And I think I'll make

642
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 5: a great point about how even if you can't support financially,

643
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 5: there's a huge benefit of continuing to share posts about

644
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 5: Palestine and continue to talk about it and not letting

645
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 5: life just go as usual and making people remember what's

646
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 5: happening and not letting them forget. So I think that's

647
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 5: the part you remember for all the listeners, just if

648
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 5: you're able, Like, the least we can do is talk

649
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 5: about Palestine. That's the very least, very least you can do.

650
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 4: Thank you.

651
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: It was a bleacher, a blisure to talk to you

652
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: and share the story with you, for sure, and to

653
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 1: tell you the situation of every person who's living outside Gaza,

654
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: away from their families. That's I guess, not just me,

655
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 1: not just up the lights, every Palestinian from Gaza who's

656
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 1: living away from their family.

657
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 4: They are really.

658
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: Suffering, I can say, because we are not living normal

659
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 1: since this unicide started in Gaza, and we hope it

660
00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 1: will end soon so we can see our families. And yeah,

661
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: stop the killing of this people from this children, because

662
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: it has been a war, a genocide on the children,

663
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: women innocent. More than fifteen thousand children have been killed

664
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: and much more disappearing. And yeah women and so it's

665
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: more than seventy percent of the people who being killed

666
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 1: are women. And children and also prest Is el three

667
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: and men teenagers.

668
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,240
Speaker 3: Guys, Where can people if they want to follow along,

669
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 3: like to hear more from you guys, just to see

670
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,720
Speaker 3: your stories? Where can they find you a on social

671
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:48,800
Speaker 3: media online?

672
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 1: You can find me on my Instagram at Arghaza or.

673
00:43:54,880 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 4: THEO this week that's my accounting Instagram. Ahmad was saying,

674
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 4: I mean we really appreciate everything and we are I

675
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 4: mean we are here because also what we want as

676
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 4: much as people to know about it and just to

677
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 4: think and to know that in urgasman super expinions, they

678
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 4: are not really numbers. They are people. There are people

679
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 4: that everybody has really hot and it's beating all the time,

680
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 4: and we have feelings. We we we have everything that

681
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 4: any human thinking in this has and this world as

682
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 4: same as everybody is really listening right now, when we

683
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 4: are all equal, there's nobody is better than another one.

684
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 4: At the end, we are all the same. So it's

685
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 4: we are not numbers. Just I would I would like

686
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 4: to everybody remember this. There's so many and so much

687
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:55,439
Speaker 4: really bigger stories behind every every want, everyone that will

688
00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 4: really killed. Everyone has a family, and you have to think,

689
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 4: what if there's just you know a person that he

690
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 4: lost either one from his family. That's one story. The

691
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,720
Speaker 4: other person that he lost his kid, that's another story.

692
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 4: The other person lost his mom, that's another story. The

693
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 4: other persons his dad, that's another to the story. So

694
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 4: everybody has his own story. That's why I'm just trying

695
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,959
Speaker 4: to show that we are not just an numbers. There's

696
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 4: so many other things that we haven't we would feel

697
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:35,760
Speaker 4: often so even though the people they are still alive,

698
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 4: and they are alive, they are dead. They're not alive

699
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 4: because literally they have nothing, even whether they lost someone

700
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 4: from the family or whether they can die even from hunger.

701
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 4: Thank you guys so much.

702
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you man, Thank you boy.

703
00:45:59,000 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 11: We really appreciate it.

704
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 4: Thank you.

705
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 3: Hey everyone, it's me Games. I hope you found those enlightening.

706
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 3: I know they're difficult to listen to, but I think

707
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 3: they're important as well. I just wanted to update the

708
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,320
Speaker 3: end of the episode to let you know that Ahmed

709
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 3: has made a fundraising page. He's raising funds for his

710
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 3: family who are still trapped in Gaza. If you'd like

711
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 3: to donate to that, we will include the link in

712
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 3: the show notes. But I'm also going to read it

713
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 3: here just so you can remember it you're driving or

714
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 3: what have you.

715
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 5: Hey, everybody, the URL has been updated. Actually it is

716
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 5: now go fund me, g o f und dot m E,

717
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 5: go fund me, dot me forward slash F six B

718
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 5: one F seven b E. So go to that go

719
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:46,839
Speaker 5: fund me and please donate what you can. It will

720
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 5: also be in the description of this episode.

721
00:46:50,160 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 10: Thanks welcome a special May Day episode of vicd Appen Here.

722
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 10: I'm your host, Mia Wong. It wasn't too long ago

723
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 10: that unions were finished. The percentage of American workers in

724
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 10: unions plunged towards the single digits. The unions that survived,

725
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 10: battered and broken shells of the mighty behemists that shook

726
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:25,280
Speaker 10: the world for one hundred years, embraced so called business unionism,

727
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 10: which set out not to conquer the world in the

728
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 10: name of labor like its great predecessors, or even really

729
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 10: to bargain for higher wages, but to make companies profitable

730
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 10: in order to keep their jobs. They took pay cuts

731
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 10: and job losses without a fight, forcing their membership into

732
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:46,280
Speaker 10: line and effortlessly crushing the endless slates of reform caucuses

733
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 10: that sought to put the fight back into the working class.

734
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 10: Even the cutting edge of Marxist theory health the time

735
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 10: of unions was over. Workers were too anomized, too divided

736
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 10: to fall or from the immediate processes of production, from

737
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 10: the discipline of the factory, and from the massification of

738
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,399
Speaker 10: the city to assemble the working class in its old

739
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:16,720
Speaker 10: fighting form. There would be riots, to be sure, barricades, blockades, occupations,

740
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,320
Speaker 10: but not strikes. Whatever the working class did next, the

741
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 10: age of the union was over. For much of the

742
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 10: twenty tens. That prediction was a smart bet. The bold

743
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:35,919
Speaker 10: proclamation of Wisconsin trade unionists that organized labor would turn

744
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 10: back the tide of the Tea Party failed to ruin

745
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,240
Speaker 10: under the failure of their attempt to recall Wisconsin's hated

746
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 10: union busting Governor Scott Walker. The Tea Party's march continued unimpeded,

747
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 10: radicalizing even further in the wake of the twenty fourteen

748
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 10: twenty fifteen uprisings in Ferguson and Baltimore to produce not

749
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 10: the victory of the working class but Donald Trump. Even

750
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 10: success stories like the rejuvenation of the mighty Chicago Teachers

751
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 10: Union AFT Local one by a bold reform caucus called

752
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 10: the caucus of rank and file educators or corps who

753
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 10: waged a pair of unexpectedly, wildly popular strikes, was tainted

754
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 10: by the reality of limited wins and labor conditions in

755
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:25,720
Speaker 10: Chicago schools that remained appalling. Even as the left returned

756
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 10: in the wake of Occupy Ferguson and the election of Trump,

757
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:34,240
Speaker 10: union membership continued to plunge, and capitalists and Marxist alike

758
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 10: continued to herald the union's demise. They were wrong. History,

759
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:46,800
Speaker 10: it seems, delights in irony. It was the dead enders,

760
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 10: fighting hopeless battles and reform caucuses, losing union election after

761
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 10: union election. It was the wobblies fighting losing campaign after

762
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 10: losing campaign, desperately trying to organize the unorganizable fast food

763
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 10: and Rea tail workers. It was rank and file Marxist

764
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 10: trade unionists waiting sixty long years, their comrades dead and gone,

765
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 10: for somebody, anybody, to hear their plans for shutting down

766
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 10: Capitol's logistics networks. It was labor notes, sixteen staffers compiling

767
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 10: endless analyzes of labor struggles for a crowd that couldn't

768
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 10: have filled a baseball stadium.

769
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 4: Who was right?

770
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 10: Unions are back, while still small compared to the height

771
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 10: of union power in the nineteen fifties, twenty twenty three

772
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 10: saw a wave of massively popular strikes waged by unions

773
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 10: from the massive behemoths like the UAW in the Writers

774
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 10: Guild to tiny independent coffee unions whose members Larger existing

775
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 10: unions are rather spin on than spend a single cent

776
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 10: attempting to organize. Only the director intervention of the President

777
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,479
Speaker 10: to break a rail workers strike before it could start,

778
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 10: and the last second portrayal of Teamster's leadership stopped twenty

779
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 10: twenty three. This largest strike wave of the modern era,

780
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 10: basking in his triumphs and conspiring to win more, was

781
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 10: Labor Notes. Labor Notes is a curious beast. It is

782
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:16,800
Speaker 10: simultaneously a journal that publishes news about labor struggles, a

783
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 10: network that brings together a group of disparate rank and

784
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 10: file union reform movements, largely but not exclusively from the US,

785
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 10: maintaining a strong emphasis on solidarity and organizing with workers

786
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:33,320
Speaker 10: in Mexico, and a labor conference that runs every two years.

787
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,760
Speaker 10: It is a relic of another time, whose time, it seems,

788
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 10: has come again. Labor Notes was founded in nineteen seventy

789
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 10: nine as a way to coordinate and expand the inter

790
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 10: union connections formed to the United Mine Workers of America's

791
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 10: nineteen seventy nine bituminous coal strike. It's one of the

792
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:57,760
Speaker 10: last direct connections to the era where labor was strong

793
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 10: unwinningly task of keeping the flame of labor alive during

794
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 10: the neoliberal downpour. Two weeks ago, they held their largest

795
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:12,320
Speaker 10: conference ever. Four five hundred people crammed into the Wyatt

796
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 10: Regency next to Chicago's O'Hare International Airport. At least a

797
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 10: thousand people who tried to register were turned down. I

798
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 10: personally watched interested workers turned away at the door because

799
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:28,800
Speaker 10: the venue's conference halls had already reached the mass capacity

800
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 10: for fire safety. Labor we can safely say is back.

801
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 10: It is returning to the South the great Rock unions

802
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 10: have shattered upon for one hundred years. It's moving in

803
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 10: new directions towards service workers previously thought impossible to organize.

804
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 10: Most of all, it's moving towards something we'd almost forgotten

805
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 10: was possible. It's moving towards victory. The first thing you

806
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:03,240
Speaker 10: noticed about Labor Notes is it's staggered diversity, Young punks

807
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 10: and battle jackets sat on benches next to old anti

808
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 10: war protesters from the sixties. Independent trade unionists and feminist

809
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 10: activists in Mexico rubbed shoulders with battle hearted American union nurses.

810
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 10: White middle aged longshore men and women plotted with young,

811
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 10: queer Amazon warehouse workers to maximize the power of logistics strikes.

812
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 10: You saw old industrial organizers from the sixties passing down

813
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 10: lessons and tactics and stories of strikes that otherwise would

814
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 10: have vanished into the mists of history. Media workers fighting

815
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:40,320
Speaker 10: for their first contract, the lowliest rank and file workers

816
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 10: chatting in breakout groups with union presidents. For all the

817
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:47,319
Speaker 10: talk I've done in this show about how many union

818
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 10: organizers are trans, even I didn't expect to see this

819
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 10: many trans people. It's a cross section of the American

820
00:53:55,600 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 10: working class come to fight, and that, above all, is

821
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 10: what this Labor Notes conference was about fighting. The most

822
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 10: direct conflict came on the first day of the conference,

823
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 10: when Palestinian union activists called for a pro Palestine demonstration

824
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 10: outside the hotel. The cops arrested three people in an

825
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 10: attempt to clear the street. This, rather predictably was a

826
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 10: terrible idea. Instead of backing down The crowd of several

827
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:28,800
Speaker 10: hundred union activists almost immediately surrounded the lone car and

828
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 10: demanded they let their prisoner go. What happened next, to

829
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 10: use a technical term, fucking ripped. A bunch of kids

830
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 10: had a rave to the changing police sirens. A fifty

831
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 10: year old white duty from the electrical worker stood next

832
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 10: to me. A Chinese transzoman from a podcast union, A

833
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:50,800
Speaker 10: bunch of longshore men, teamsters, staffers from unions. You wouldn't

834
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 10: believe even if I told you Palestinian trade union activists, nurses,

835
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:57,959
Speaker 10: punks from independent unions. No one else in the crowd

836
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 10: could have named. An entire mass of unionists stood their

837
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 10: ground and refused to let the cops take one of ours.

838
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:09,840
Speaker 10: A tradeswoman with drums marched around the police car and

839
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 10: we're all saying which side are you on? After two hours,

840
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 10: the police gave up to a crowd screaming Union power

841
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 10: at the top of our lungs. It was an incredible

842
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 10: display of solidarity that set the tone for the rest

843
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 10: of the event. We were going to fight the bosses

844
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:30,880
Speaker 10: together and fuck them if they came for us. This

845
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 10: is not to say there weren't divisions. A group of

846
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 10: protesters broke away from the cop car to demand that

847
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 10: Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson, the darling of the Chicago Teachers' Union,

848
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 10: come tell the cops to let our people go. Now

849
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 10: whether or not this would have worked is up to

850
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 10: some debates. These cops were not Chicago police departments. They

851
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 10: were the cops of Rosemont, which is technically a separate

852
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:02,840
Speaker 10: entity from the city of Chicago. However, Labor notes staffers

853
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 10: and securities tried to stop the protesters from reaching Brandon

854
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:10,359
Speaker 10: Johnson and ended up throwing punches at the protesters. As

855
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:15,840
Speaker 10: to quote one observer, union brother fought union brother. This

856
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 10: fight reveals one of the important tensions in the movement.

857
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 10: Should unions continue to back imperfect center left politicians in

858
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 10: exchange for some political benefits, or should they take a

859
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:31,880
Speaker 10: hard line against politicians who betray their fundamental political principles.

860
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 10: Brandon Johnson is a microcosm of the debate. On the

861
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 10: one hand, he was elected with enormous resource expenditure from

862
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 10: the Chicago Teachers' unions. On the other hand, he's been

863
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:47,720
Speaker 10: locking immigrants into berculosis ridden camps as the city lurches

864
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:52,759
Speaker 10: from crisis to crisis. Even many of Chicago's other unionists

865
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 10: were never happy with him in the first place, as

866
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 10: he failed to use his previous position to come to

867
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 10: the aid of striking nurses. When the two points of

868
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 10: view collide, there's a fight. On a national level. The

869
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 10: conflict is the question of Joe Biden in Palestine. At

870
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 10: Labor Notes itself, there's strong support for Palestine. Palestinian solidarity.

871
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 10: Panels were packed to the rafters with workers from every

872
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 10: sector imaginable and activists from.

873
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 11: Across the world.

874
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 10: I saw UAW workers deeply unhappy with their union leadership's

875
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 10: decision to endorse Biden, a decision made by maybe five

876
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 10: members of an executive committee, with how a vote from

877
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:37,959
Speaker 10: the union therein lies the issue. As much as Labor

878
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 10: Notes represents the bleeding edge of the labor movements. UAW

879
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 10: president Sean Fein, fresh off the uaw's astounding seventy three

880
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 10: percent victory at a Volkswagen factory in Chattanooga, gave the

881
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 10: conference's closing address. There remains massive bastions of conservatism in

882
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 10: the labor movements, who have actively fought against even statements

883
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 10: on Palestine, much less concrete actions. Unions are still weak

884
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 10: and the positions of activists within them are still tenuous.

885
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 10: Even more favorable shops have yet to turn broader popular

886
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 10: support among rank and file workers for Palestine into substantive

887
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 10: strike actions, and it's deeply unclear to me if any

888
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 10: such action is possible at all. My pessimism on labour's

889
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 10: willingness and ability to stop the genocide and Palestine, a

890
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 10: pessimism reinforced by watching the rapid spread of student campus

891
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 10: occupations while labor remains silent or perhaps more precisely dormant,

892
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 10: is broadly intension with my optimism and effectively everything else

893
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 10: that I saw there. There is incredible organizing going on

894
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 10: at labor notes. People are coordinating rank and file links

895
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 10: between unions whose staffers and leaderships hate each other for

896
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 10: grudges whose origins have passed into the mists of time.

897
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 10: There was quite serious talk about plans to line up

898
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 10: contracts to expire in twenty twenty eight to effectively create

899
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 10: a miniature general strike, or perhaps more precisely, to create

900
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 10: a version of what's called the Spring offensive in Japan.

901
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 10: Spring and offensive are the same word in Japanese, and

902
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 10: so labor unions decided to have their contracts expire in

903
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 10: the spring, thus maximizing the power of their strikes. This

904
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 10: effort to have contracts aligned in twenty twenty eight is

905
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:46,960
Speaker 10: broadly speaking, a larger version of the Spring offensive. We

906
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 10: will cover this more in a later episode. For now,

907
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 10: I think it's enough to say that discussions and organization

908
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 10: were quite serious, and there was significant enthusiasm as well

909
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 10: as discussions of the potential difficulties of getting people's contracts

910
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 10: to actually align. People are organizing to bring their unions

911
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 10: together on a sectoral base to share resources, coordinate, set

912
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 10: standards for contracts, and generally help each other more effectively

913
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 10: oppose the bosses and unions that rule them all. Labor

914
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 10: Notes has also from the beginning been an incubator for

915
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 10: reform movements inside of unions, attempting to wrest control from

916
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 10: corporate administrative caucuses. These reform movements almost always lose. The

917
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:38,320
Speaker 10: last fifty years is littered with defeats in union election

918
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 10: after union election with sub ten percent turnout, and yet

919
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 10: little by little these groups are starting to win. We

920
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 10: heard from a number of smaller rank and file efforts

921
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 10: that had successfully taken control of their unions. The first

922
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 10: major victory was a rank and file slate taking over

923
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 10: the management of the notoriously corrupt and clickish Teamsters. Now

924
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:10,440
Speaker 10: I have my issues with the new Teamsters leadership too.

925
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 10: There are something like two entire hours of this show

926
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:17,919
Speaker 10: dedicated to how angry rank and file Teamsters were over

927
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 10: the fact that UPS workers didn't go on strike last

928
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 10: year due to their leadership cutting a deal with management.

929
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 10: But on a broader level, the victory of the Teamsters

930
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 10: reformed slates and the defeat of one of the oldest

931
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 10: union I don't know if administrative caucus is really a

932
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 10: that's a bit of a euphemism for the UPS sort

933
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 10: of corrupt leadership dictatorship, but their victory on a broader

934
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 10: level was a sea change in American unionism. Their victory

935
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 10: was followed by the victory of Seawan Fain in the UAW,

936
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 10: a man who, as much as he angered members by

937
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 10: endorsing Joe Biden, walked into Labor notes and gave a

938
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:09,520
Speaker 10: speech about the class war and the authoritarianism of corporate greed.

939
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:14,880
Speaker 10: Certainly there was much to annoy trade activists concerned with Palestine,

940
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 10: in the sense that his central metaphor labor was the

941
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 10: arsenal of democracy was in bad taste as he described

942
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:27,000
Speaker 10: the unions that he leads as the successors of Liberator

943
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 10: B fifty two bombers, which not, you know, not precisely

944
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 10: the metaphor id shoes, as your own members are protesting

945
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 10: the bombs falling over Gaza. But on the other hand,

946
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 10: if a giant speech about the class war and the

947
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 10: need to organize across borders is now the conservative wing

948
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:54,120
Speaker 10: of progressive trade unionism, the future is bright. The kind

949
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 10: of militant union actions we've seen over the past year

950
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 10: have coalesced into a sort of strategy of fight as

951
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 10: you build. It is based on a very basic strategy

952
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 10: that you would think unions would have already been doing. However, Comma,

953
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 10: see everything I've ever said about administration, administrative caucuses, and

954
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 10: business unionism and corporate unionism. The strategy is, if you

955
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 10: win things for people, more of them will join unions.

956
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 10: This strategy is already bearing fruit in Chattanooga and has

957
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 10: international implications as well. We heard from organizers that workers

958
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:39,520
Speaker 10: in Mexico and China were keenly watching the UAW strikes,

959
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 10: and for good reason, these strikes are ultimately their fight too,

960
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:49,920
Speaker 10: and slowly but surely workers across the world are starting

961
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 10: to realize it. The degree of internationalism at this Labrynes

962
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 10: was remarkable. I came into an early China panel fully

963
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 10: expecting the same kinds of praise for the CCP that

964
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 10: I've seen in other leftist events held in the city

965
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 10: of Chicago, most recently the sort of fiasco China panel

966
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:14,479
Speaker 10: held at Socialism Conference that degraded into an argument about

967
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 10: whether or not Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa socialist.

968
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 10: Here there was none of that. For sure, there were

969
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:29,160
Speaker 10: some slightly weird German maoist defending the Cultural Revolution, but

970
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 10: on the other hand, there wasn't any defense of Chinese

971
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:36,920
Speaker 10: capitalism or their failed, bankrupt model of corporate unionism. On

972
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 10: top of cross border organizing, sectorially, the conference has a

973
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 10: deep and ingrained pro immigrant position. Sean Fayn is probably

974
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 10: the most high profile political figure I've seen actually discussing

975
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:52,240
Speaker 10: the horrific treatment of migrants at the border right now

976
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 10: and taking time to remind everyone that immigrants are just

977
01:04:56,240 --> 01:05:00,640
Speaker 10: workers trying to find a better life. This, however, makes

978
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 10: his support for Joe Biden, the Butcher of Yakumba, even

979
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 10: more questionable. Still, you can see the wheels of history turning.

980
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:15,320
Speaker 10: You can see it there in the muffled buzz of

981
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 10: conversations drifting through hallways, in the roar of the cheering crowd,

982
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:24,560
Speaker 10: in the bright laughs of co conspirators who moments before

983
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 10: were strangers, and the drowsy chatter of abortion workers who

984
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:31,280
Speaker 10: let a transwoman sleep on their floor to hide from

985
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:35,040
Speaker 10: the police. In the chance of a hundred workers refusing

986
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 10: to let the cops take one of their own. You

987
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 10: can see the outline of the great Leviathan, the ruling

988
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:45,640
Speaker 10: class thought buried stone dead in the nineteen eighties. You

989
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:48,720
Speaker 10: can see the working class waking from its day's slumber,

990
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:52,000
Speaker 10: shaking the sleep from its eyes and the dirt from

991
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:55,880
Speaker 10: its back. You can, for the first time in decades,

992
01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:59,440
Speaker 10: hear the clatter and the roar as it tests its chains.

993
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:05,480
Speaker 10: The great behemoth is beginning, just beginning, to assemble the

994
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:09,000
Speaker 10: iron will and terrible power necessary to turn its dreams

995
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 10: into reality, to break its chains and shatter its cage,

996
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:15,920
Speaker 10: and reclaim the world it built with its blood and

997
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 10: sweat and tears. That day is not today, it's not tomorrow,

998
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,600
Speaker 10: But for the first time in my life, it could

999
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:29,680
Speaker 10: be the day after that this has been it could

1000
01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 10: happen here, Happy Mayda everyone.

1001
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 2: Hey everyone, Robert Evans here and it could happen here.

1002
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 2: A podcast about things falling apart and sometimes putting them

1003
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:53,120
Speaker 2: back together. I'm writing this after flying back from Texas

1004
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:57,640
Speaker 2: where my tad died, to Portland, waking up and basically

1005
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 2: immediately interviewing a group of testers in Arcada, California, at

1006
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 2: the cal Poly occupation in Humboldt, and then driving to

1007
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 2: Portland State University in Portland, Oregon, where there has also

1008
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 2: been a campus occupation, And both of these occupations have

1009
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:17,760
Speaker 2: some stuff in common, and I wanted to talk about

1010
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:20,480
Speaker 2: what was happening with both of them because I think

1011
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 2: it's relevant, and obviously it's relevant to what is currently

1012
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 2: one of the larger stories going on in the country

1013
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:30,480
Speaker 2: right now, which is that a series of occupations on

1014
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 2: campuses protesting the Israeli genocide and Gaza have spread to

1015
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:37,440
Speaker 2: more than one hundred schools in the United States. You

1016
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:39,680
Speaker 2: will have heard of this now. We have covered some

1017
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:42,600
Speaker 2: of this in recent episodes, particularly what was going on

1018
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:45,360
Speaker 2: in Colombia at least at the initial stages of that,

1019
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 2: and today again I'm here to talk about two occupations.

1020
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 2: One of them is at cal Poly Humboldt in Arcada, California,

1021
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 2: and an other is at Portland State University in Portland, Oregon.

1022
01:07:57,640 --> 01:07:59,640
Speaker 2: As an out of side, I have lived in both

1023
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:03,040
Speaker 2: of these cities, which is peculiar. It doesn't really mean anything,

1024
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:05,800
Speaker 2: but I thought it was weird, and obviously I still

1025
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:10,520
Speaker 2: live in Portland. Protests started in Arcada first. On October

1026
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:13,480
Speaker 2: twenty second, twenty twenty four, students on the cow Poly

1027
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:18,920
Speaker 2: Humboldt also called CPH Campus occupied Seamen's Hall. These students

1028
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:21,519
Speaker 2: were not members of any specific group, but we're all

1029
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 2: acting in solidarity with GAZA, and we're inspired at least

1030
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:29,839
Speaker 2: partly by the solidarity encampment at Columbia University. It started

1031
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:32,600
Speaker 2: with a small number of people, about forty five or so.

1032
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 2: These are a mix of students, some alumni, and a

1033
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:41,040
Speaker 2: few random Arcadens. Arcada is a pretty progressive town. You

1034
01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:43,880
Speaker 2: might call it Hippi. That's generally the reputation that it has.

1035
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 2: Campus police showed up. There was a series of negotiations,

1036
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:51,120
Speaker 2: which here means they told everybody to leave, and at

1037
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 2: that point the police began escalating things. Because the Arcada

1038
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 2: Police Force is pretty small. Cops were called in from

1039
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 2: the surrounding area, quite a few of them. There were helicopters.

1040
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 2: It's much more of it to do than this fairly

1041
01:09:05,400 --> 01:09:09,040
Speaker 2: sleepy community in the Redwoods is used to having. Community

1042
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:11,799
Speaker 2: members started to show up as well because hey, something

1043
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 2: was happening. A ride up from Crime Thinks website describes

1044
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:18,840
Speaker 2: what happened next quote, Police from every department in the

1045
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:21,720
Speaker 2: county showed up, including a helicopter, canine units, and off

1046
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:25,599
Speaker 2: duty police. Students responded by swarming them. The cops initial

1047
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:27,960
Speaker 2: plan to carry out a mass arrest was thwarted by

1048
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:30,960
Speaker 2: a series of clashes both inside and outside of the building.

1049
01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 2: The occupiers beat back police advances despite facing brutality unlike

1050
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:37,839
Speaker 2: anything we have seen over the last decade of struggle

1051
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:41,920
Speaker 2: in Humboldt County. Again, it's a pretty sleepy place. There

1052
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:45,000
Speaker 2: were two arrests and a number of injuries. The arrests

1053
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,719
Speaker 2: were apparently quite ugly, but police were unable to clear

1054
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:52,519
Speaker 2: out the occupation. Barricades were thrown into place as the

1055
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:55,400
Speaker 2: fighting continued off and on, until a crowd of people

1056
01:09:55,439 --> 01:09:59,599
Speaker 2: from the surrounding community, including other students and faculty, showed

1057
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:03,679
Speaker 2: up out side and effectively surrounded the police. After six hours,

1058
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:07,120
Speaker 2: the police retreated, The university declared a lockdown, and the

1059
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:09,919
Speaker 2: students were able to spend the next few days extending

1060
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:13,400
Speaker 2: their defenses as well upsetting, as well as setting up infrastructure,

1061
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:16,840
Speaker 2: including a kitchen. Early on the morning of the twenty ninth,

1062
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 2: a team from It Could Happen Here sat down with

1063
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:21,200
Speaker 2: two of these students to discuss the occupation.

1064
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:27,200
Speaker 12: I go by Stinger online and I have been part

1065
01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:32,760
Speaker 12: of the occupation since I think the morning of day two.

1066
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:38,120
Speaker 12: I think it's been night after the pops tried to

1067
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:43,439
Speaker 12: enter the barricaded building and got pushed back. I think

1068
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:46,800
Speaker 12: I've been here since the morning after that.

1069
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:50,640
Speaker 11: Yeah, Blue, And what's been your history with this?

1070
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:55,560
Speaker 13: I came here on Tuesday morning. I just attended a

1071
01:10:55,640 --> 01:11:00,320
Speaker 13: meeting with everyone, and I've just been here how at

1072
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:02,559
Speaker 13: the MAC, mainly because I feel like that's where I'm

1073
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 13: the most useful.

1074
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:05,360
Speaker 11: What's the MAC?

1075
01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:09,599
Speaker 13: The MAC is the Mutual Aid Kitchen. God, we've been

1076
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:14,320
Speaker 13: handing out food and I've just been helping prepare food

1077
01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:20,600
Speaker 13: for people and trying to let other people involved do

1078
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:24,920
Speaker 13: more things because I know I'm the most useful in

1079
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:29,479
Speaker 13: the mac personally rather than being anywhere else doing anything else.

1080
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:32,760
Speaker 2: By the time we talked to them, the rumor mill

1081
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:35,639
Speaker 2: widely expected the police to carry out a major attempt

1082
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:38,519
Speaker 2: to clear the occupation that night. As I write this

1083
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 2: ten thirteen pm PST on the twenty ninth of April,

1084
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:45,639
Speaker 2: local police have just given Siemens Hall a dispersal order.

1085
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:48,960
Speaker 2: So we'll see how that goes. Hey, everyone, Robert here,

1086
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:51,439
Speaker 2: we saw how it goes. Police cracked down, arrested a

1087
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 2: bunch of people and ended the occupation. We will talk

1088
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:56,720
Speaker 2: more about that a little at the end of the episode.

1089
01:11:57,320 --> 01:12:00,599
Speaker 2: But because their initial efforts to clear out the occupation failed,

1090
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:03,080
Speaker 2: police have had to spend nearly a week watching and

1091
01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:04,720
Speaker 2: waiting as students dig in.

1092
01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 12: Yeah, police have not tried to like actively push us

1093
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:12,639
Speaker 12: out like we've seen on other campuses, where like they've

1094
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:15,559
Speaker 12: totally like raided and like worn down tents and everything.

1095
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:19,320
Speaker 12: And I think we also, I think a big part

1096
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 12: of it is like logistically, we're in a small city

1097
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 12: and we don't really have the police force necessary, Yeah,

1098
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 12: which is why they've been trying to call you know, unfortunately,

1099
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:39,559
Speaker 12: then trying to call officers from other places because especially

1100
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:42,160
Speaker 12: like I feel like in the evenings especially, we have

1101
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:46,080
Speaker 12: a lot of people both from the community and students

1102
01:12:46,120 --> 01:12:51,680
Speaker 12: on campus who have been occupying the quad. But what's

1103
01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:54,519
Speaker 12: so funny is that our main intention was not Like

1104
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 12: the original intention was not to barricade that building. It

1105
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:01,920
Speaker 12: was just going to be occupied, not arricaded. But because

1106
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:04,960
Speaker 12: of police actions, I feel like we've actually stepped up

1107
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:07,000
Speaker 12: more so. They kind of shot themselves on the foot

1108
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:07,639
Speaker 12: with that one.

1109
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:10,360
Speaker 2: This is a pattern we've seen a few times in

1110
01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 2: recent years. In late twenty twenty, Garrison and I reported

1111
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:17,280
Speaker 2: from an eviction defense at the famous Red House in Portland.

1112
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:20,640
Speaker 2: The basic idea is that local protesters were trying to

1113
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:23,640
Speaker 2: stop police from serving an eviction during the pandemic. There

1114
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:26,280
Speaker 2: was a clash outside the house and some arrests, but

1115
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:28,840
Speaker 2: police pulled back when protesters were still on the ground

1116
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:32,360
Speaker 2: and in numbers. Said protesters began to fortify the area

1117
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 2: around the house and eventually the entire neighborhood. By the

1118
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:37,760
Speaker 2: time the police realized what was going on, they had

1119
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:40,240
Speaker 2: a nightmare on their hands, an occupation that would have

1120
01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:44,439
Speaker 2: been impossible to clear without significant violence. The end result

1121
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:47,880
Speaker 2: of the situation was that the city government essentially negotiated

1122
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:50,360
Speaker 2: an end to what was happening rather than just sending

1123
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:54,000
Speaker 2: the police back into evict residence. There is much more

1124
01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:56,439
Speaker 2: to the whole situation than that. This is something people

1125
01:13:56,479 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 2: still get angry about because the patriarch of the family

1126
01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:01,640
Speaker 2: at Red House was a weirdo sovereign citizen type. But

1127
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:04,639
Speaker 2: the goal at the time was to stop evictions during

1128
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:07,760
Speaker 2: the pandemic, and the tactics of the day worked. The

1129
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:10,759
Speaker 2: cops backed off, the city came to the negotiating table.

1130
01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:14,200
Speaker 2: It was a successful action, whatever you think about the

1131
01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:18,200
Speaker 2: individuals involved in it. After the call that Garrison Mia

1132
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:20,760
Speaker 2: and myself had with those Humboldt students and we will

1133
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:23,000
Speaker 2: hear more from them later, I got a message from

1134
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:25,519
Speaker 2: a source that an occupation was also brewing on the

1135
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:29,439
Speaker 2: Portland State University campus, or rather that it was going on,

1136
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:33,160
Speaker 2: and folks were worried things were about to escalate. But

1137
01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:37,920
Speaker 2: don't you escalate until you've listened to these ads.

1138
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:50,559
Speaker 11: Anyway, here they are, We're back.

1139
01:14:51,520 --> 01:14:55,320
Speaker 2: Actions at Portland State University started on Thursday, the twenty fifth,

1140
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:58,160
Speaker 2: and it was initially pretty simple. One tent and one

1141
01:14:58,240 --> 01:15:01,519
Speaker 2: banner strung between trees in front of the Branford Price

1142
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:05,519
Speaker 2: Miller Library steps. Social media did its thing. Once this

1143
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:08,240
Speaker 2: first tent was up, and the encampment slowly grew to

1144
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:11,720
Speaker 2: maybe half a dozen tents by midnight. At around one

1145
01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:15,320
Speaker 2: twenty am, the police swept the encampment. Only a few

1146
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:18,120
Speaker 2: people were awake and less than twenty people were present

1147
01:15:18,479 --> 01:15:22,960
Speaker 2: against maybe forty riot officers. The police pushed people out

1148
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:25,400
Speaker 2: of the encampment. They went straight for the supply tent

1149
01:15:25,479 --> 01:15:29,120
Speaker 2: and took everything, loading medical equipment, food, etc. Into City

1150
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:32,000
Speaker 2: of Portland trucks and hauling it away. It was a

1151
01:15:32,120 --> 01:15:34,240
Speaker 2: bad night for a lot of people. But what I

1152
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:36,800
Speaker 2: gleaned from interviewing some of those folks was that they

1153
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:40,879
Speaker 2: had learned one crucial lesson, which was that Portland police

1154
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:43,760
Speaker 2: weren't willing to fuck with people or property that was

1155
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:48,840
Speaker 2: sitting on the PSU steps. This is probably a jurisdictional thing.

1156
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:54,599
Speaker 2: School properties the responsibility of the PSU Campus Police PPB

1157
01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:57,880
Speaker 2: could police the park outside, but either couldn't or just

1158
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:00,760
Speaker 2: didn't want to be arsd in dealing with the complications

1159
01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:03,880
Speaker 2: that might be caused by going into school property themselves.

1160
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:07,400
Speaker 2: So the school had to deal with the unenviable complication

1161
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:10,360
Speaker 2: of the fact that these were their students protesting at

1162
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:14,080
Speaker 2: a famously progressive school and having their cops cleared them out,

1163
01:16:14,160 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 2: especially if it caused violence or somebody got seriously hurt,

1164
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:21,439
Speaker 2: would be a real pr headache. The administration at Humboldt

1165
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:25,559
Speaker 2: University and famously progressive ARCATA ran into a similar problem.

1166
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:28,240
Speaker 2: In the days after the police backed away from their

1167
01:16:28,280 --> 01:16:32,400
Speaker 2: initial confrontation, students developed a list of demands by consensus.

1168
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:35,880
Speaker 2: Here's one of our sources from the Humboldt occupation again

1169
01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:39,240
Speaker 2: and their description of the demands have been cut together

1170
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:42,320
Speaker 2: from a longer interview. Some crosstalk has been edited out

1171
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:45,800
Speaker 2: to make things flow a bit more clearly. Anyway, here's

1172
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:46,479
Speaker 2: those demands.

1173
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:51,960
Speaker 12: Okay, So students, with the mediation of faculty, have reached

1174
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:56,880
Speaker 12: out to administration in hopes of re engaging negotiations. So

1175
01:16:57,160 --> 01:17:00,679
Speaker 12: we would like administration to agree to the following through demands.

1176
01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:05,240
Speaker 12: One de escalated. We demand the immediate removal of police

1177
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:09,759
Speaker 12: from university campus. We also demand the immediate re enrollment

1178
01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:12,439
Speaker 12: of students who have been suspended. And it problem is

1179
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:17,240
Speaker 12: to not suspend, resuspend, or expel any student protesters as

1180
01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:22,280
Speaker 12: a result of these accusations because they were claiming, you know,

1181
01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:26,599
Speaker 12: that we had committed property damage and trespassing and things

1182
01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:28,519
Speaker 12: like that, and that was a lot of the reasons

1183
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:32,599
Speaker 12: that they gave for suspending us, Like in the email

1184
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:37,280
Speaker 12: we received about interim suspension. Two was divest We demand

1185
01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:40,600
Speaker 12: that the Kalipoly Humboldt Foundation commits to an audit and

1186
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:45,240
Speaker 12: subsequent divestment from any funds related to Israel, Israeli products,

1187
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:48,959
Speaker 12: or Israeli companies, and this includes those that own factories

1188
01:17:49,120 --> 01:17:52,879
Speaker 12: on stolen Palestinian land in Israel. There are four specific

1189
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:56,920
Speaker 12: funds that at the minimum, we demand the divestment from

1190
01:17:57,320 --> 01:17:58,599
Speaker 12: within the next six months.

1191
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:11,600
Speaker 7: These were til c X, DFSTX, fe up X, and DOODFX.

1192
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:17,880
Speaker 12: And we did research into these holdings that these funds

1193
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:21,639
Speaker 12: have and how the companies that they may have holdings

1194
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:26,840
Speaker 12: in are connected to Israel. So for example, ti LCx,

1195
01:18:27,200 --> 01:18:31,280
Speaker 12: their top three holdings are in Qualcomm, Wells Fargo, and Chubb.

1196
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:35,640
Speaker 12: Qualcomm is an information technology company that does the majority

1197
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:39,160
Speaker 12: of its technology development in Israel, so they have like

1198
01:18:39,320 --> 01:18:45,280
Speaker 12: factories there and that's kind of where they develop their

1199
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:48,960
Speaker 12: smartphone chips and tracking intelligence, which is kind of like

1200
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:51,760
Speaker 12: two of the main things that they work on and sell.

1201
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:56,439
Speaker 12: And then Wells Fargo was part of a five hundred

1202
01:18:56,479 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 12: million dollar loan deal with multiple other lenders that support

1203
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:04,640
Speaker 12: that was supporting Elbert Systems, which is an Israeli military

1204
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:08,960
Speaker 12: weapons manufacturer. So those are like two of the big

1205
01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:12,479
Speaker 12: ones just from the first fund that we had looked into.

1206
01:19:13,680 --> 01:19:18,520
Speaker 12: And our third demand was declare in solidarity with universities

1207
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:21,800
Speaker 12: across the globe and for all Palestinian people, including their

1208
01:19:21,880 --> 01:19:25,599
Speaker 12: martyrs and refugees. We demand a ceasefire statement from KLi

1209
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:29,680
Speaker 12: Pally Humble calling for an immediate and permanent Ceaspire in Palestine,

1210
01:19:30,120 --> 01:19:34,480
Speaker 12: and we encourage all other California State universities and universities

1211
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:38,640
Speaker 12: of California to do the same. As we were writing this,

1212
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:45,720
Speaker 12: it was we found out that the faculty administration had

1213
01:19:45,840 --> 01:19:50,760
Speaker 12: released a Ceaspire statement, I believe, but the actual university

1214
01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:54,439
Speaker 12: like admin had it, like the whole university admin, but

1215
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:59,200
Speaker 12: like the faculty had released a CESPIRE statement. Faculty specifically,

1216
01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:03,120
Speaker 12: I know there's there's definitely faculty that have There's some

1217
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:05,760
Speaker 12: faculty who have been with us since day one, like

1218
01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:09,360
Speaker 12: CA camping out with everyone since day one. And it's

1219
01:20:09,520 --> 01:20:13,439
Speaker 12: like a lot of the faculty, we like, we are

1220
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:16,879
Speaker 12: totally comfortable putting our trust in like some of these faculty,

1221
01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:19,679
Speaker 12: Like if there was an emergency, like I would call them,

1222
01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:22,519
Speaker 12: you know, like if there was an emergency on campus

1223
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:25,080
Speaker 12: where like I was about to be arrested, I'm like, yeah,

1224
01:20:25,080 --> 01:20:28,360
Speaker 12: I'm going to call up this professor. But they have

1225
01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:31,360
Speaker 12: been and they have been like trying to, you know,

1226
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:35,240
Speaker 12: update us with whatever they hear from Admin. But just

1227
01:20:35,360 --> 01:20:38,280
Speaker 12: in like the past few days, we've actually kind of

1228
01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:42,160
Speaker 12: discerned that upper admin has sort of cut off contact

1229
01:20:42,240 --> 01:20:45,360
Speaker 12: with lower admin and faculty. And this is something that

1230
01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:49,160
Speaker 12: we talked about with faculty members as well. Because of

1231
01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:53,560
Speaker 12: the significant faculty support that we've been receiving, Administration is

1232
01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:56,960
Speaker 12: literally just not telling faculty anything anymore.

1233
01:20:57,400 --> 01:20:59,280
Speaker 10: Yeah, it really seems like it's turned into just this

1234
01:20:59,560 --> 01:21:03,639
Speaker 10: pure conflict between everyone who is part of the process

1235
01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:06,800
Speaker 10: of an education fighting against the admin who are not

1236
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:08,960
Speaker 10: part of that process, who are trying to stop everyone

1237
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:09,519
Speaker 10: with cops.

1238
01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:14,040
Speaker 2: Back in Portland, that first failed encampment brought more people

1239
01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:17,400
Speaker 2: out the next day, Friday, the twenty sixth, and by noon,

1240
01:21:17,560 --> 01:21:19,680
Speaker 2: more tents than a few banners had been set up,

1241
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:24,040
Speaker 2: student organizations had put together lists of demands. Now these

1242
01:21:24,160 --> 01:21:27,120
Speaker 2: demands have varied and have been edited a few times

1243
01:21:27,160 --> 01:21:31,920
Speaker 2: after long democratic consensus sessions by people present. The list

1244
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:34,519
Speaker 2: I was presented with when I showed up on Monday

1245
01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:38,799
Speaker 2: included three demands. Number one, PSU should release a statement

1246
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:42,120
Speaker 2: condemning the genocide of Palestinian people with weapons provided by

1247
01:21:42,160 --> 01:21:45,639
Speaker 2: the US. Number two, the university should end the sale

1248
01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:48,719
Speaker 2: of Israeli products on campus and any programs that would

1249
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:52,920
Speaker 2: involve sending students, employees, or faculty to Israel. And number three,

1250
01:21:53,240 --> 01:21:56,519
Speaker 2: the board of trustees should terminate all relationships with Boeing

1251
01:21:56,600 --> 01:22:00,360
Speaker 2: and other companies complicit in the ongoing genocide. Their list

1252
01:22:00,439 --> 01:22:04,040
Speaker 2: included Leopold, an Oregon based company who makes rifle scopes,

1253
01:22:04,360 --> 01:22:08,560
Speaker 2: but also companies like Intel and Hewlett Packard. Boeing was

1254
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:12,639
Speaker 2: the company I heard reference most by protesters. The aerospace company,

1255
01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:15,439
Speaker 2: which is involved in the manufacture and design of just

1256
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:19,640
Speaker 2: so many weapons, has a partnership with Portland State University.

1257
01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:22,800
Speaker 2: Later on Friday, the same day that these lists of

1258
01:22:22,840 --> 01:22:26,719
Speaker 2: demands started coming together, the school president and cut announced

1259
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:30,599
Speaker 2: a pause to the school's relationship with Boeing to address

1260
01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:31,879
Speaker 2: these protester demands.

1261
01:22:32,560 --> 01:22:33,160
Speaker 11: Precisely.

1262
01:22:33,439 --> 01:22:37,760
Speaker 2: What pausing this relationship means is unclear, and a lot

1263
01:22:37,840 --> 01:22:39,880
Speaker 2: of the people I talked to felt like it essentially

1264
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:43,720
Speaker 2: meant nothing but cut wrote quote. PSU will host a

1265
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:47,280
Speaker 2: forum at which these concerns can be carefully framed and debated.

1266
01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:50,599
Speaker 2: We will organize a two hour moderated debate in May

1267
01:22:50,720 --> 01:22:56,240
Speaker 2: to include faculty and student voices, so you know whatever

1268
01:22:56,320 --> 01:22:59,360
Speaker 2: that means. By late in the day Friday, media had

1269
01:22:59,360 --> 01:23:02,240
Speaker 2: started showing up in numbers to report on the occupation,

1270
01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:04,799
Speaker 2: which was still quite small, but bigger ones were happening

1271
01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:07,640
Speaker 2: all over the country, and if your local news you

1272
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:09,559
Speaker 2: want to do anything you can to tie your area

1273
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:12,560
Speaker 2: into whatever the big story is nationwide, so you know,

1274
01:23:12,840 --> 01:23:15,839
Speaker 2: good excuse to show up. There was also some conflict

1275
01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:19,639
Speaker 2: between local student groups at this point and unaffiliated groups

1276
01:23:19,720 --> 01:23:23,400
Speaker 2: of activists, some of whom were also students, over whether

1277
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:26,840
Speaker 2: or not to keep occupying over the weekend and keep

1278
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:31,160
Speaker 2: attempting to you know, keep an occupation in place despite

1279
01:23:31,280 --> 01:23:34,720
Speaker 2: police crackdowns, or to save their strength for a new

1280
01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:38,880
Speaker 2: concerted push on Monday. At any rate, some people stayed

1281
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:42,360
Speaker 2: and by seven pm that night Friday night, the Portland

1282
01:23:42,360 --> 01:23:45,800
Speaker 2: Police Bureau showed back up in full riot gear. Park

1283
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:48,880
Speaker 2: rangers told protesters to exit the park area, and a

1284
01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:53,439
Speaker 2: standoff ensued. While some protesters confronted police head on. A

1285
01:23:53,479 --> 01:23:56,240
Speaker 2: smaller group of activists used this as a distraction to

1286
01:23:56,320 --> 01:23:59,479
Speaker 2: move a number of tents onto the library steps, having

1287
01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:02,160
Speaker 2: noticed that PPB didn't seem to be willing to go

1288
01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:05,840
Speaker 2: directly onto campus property. Once this was done, the folks

1289
01:24:05,920 --> 01:24:09,240
Speaker 2: confronting the riot line gradually pulled back to the steps.

1290
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:12,240
Speaker 2: The police seemed confused or at least.

1291
01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:12,760
Speaker 11: Put out by this.

1292
01:24:13,160 --> 01:24:15,680
Speaker 2: They left for a while, then returned briefly to cut

1293
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:18,880
Speaker 2: down the banners hung on the trees. I was told

1294
01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:21,000
Speaker 2: a number of people mentioned this kind of laughingly when

1295
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:23,000
Speaker 2: I was around that the way in which the police

1296
01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:26,679
Speaker 2: justified this was that a recent anti camping public camping

1297
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:31,000
Speaker 2: measure meant to target the homeless specified that the kind

1298
01:24:31,080 --> 01:24:33,680
Speaker 2: of thing that a banner like. Basically, the fact that

1299
01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:36,800
Speaker 2: the banner touched trees in two different areas, or like

1300
01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:39,560
Speaker 2: touch two different trees meant that it would count it

1301
01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:41,599
Speaker 2: as a tent, and so they were allowed to take

1302
01:24:41,640 --> 01:24:44,560
Speaker 2: it down. It all sounded pretty silly to me, but

1303
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:47,960
Speaker 2: students and others on campus property in the library were

1304
01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:51,080
Speaker 2: left to barricade the area around the library at will.

1305
01:24:51,880 --> 01:24:55,320
Speaker 2: They started with pallets brought by an anonymous benefactor. Both

1306
01:24:55,400 --> 01:24:58,479
Speaker 2: sides of the staircases into the library were initially blocked.

1307
01:24:59,120 --> 01:25:02,759
Speaker 2: This only lasted until Saturday morning, when an cud president

1308
01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:05,920
Speaker 2: of the university since August of twenty twenty three, visited

1309
01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:09,840
Speaker 2: the encampment. Different protesters I have talked to related this

1310
01:25:09,960 --> 01:25:13,679
Speaker 2: event in different ways. Some described her visit as essentially chill.

1311
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:17,479
Speaker 2: Others described Ann as quite angry and even threatening them.

1312
01:25:18,120 --> 01:25:19,080
Speaker 11: I was not there.

1313
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:23,280
Speaker 2: The end result was an agreement, though, if protesters allowed

1314
01:25:23,320 --> 01:25:26,559
Speaker 2: students to continue to have access to the doorway into

1315
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:30,040
Speaker 2: the library so students could still use the library, PSU

1316
01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:32,360
Speaker 2: wouldn't send in their cops or call in the city

1317
01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:35,920
Speaker 2: cops to clear out the occupation. After what one source

1318
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:41,320
Speaker 2: described as much heated discussion, protesters agreed to this arrangement. Now,

1319
01:25:41,600 --> 01:25:44,920
Speaker 2: variations of stuff like this are common in occupations at

1320
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:49,240
Speaker 2: schools that get this far. School faculty are often sympathetic

1321
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:51,880
Speaker 2: to student actions, or at least to the students taking

1322
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:55,320
Speaker 2: part in them, and supporting crackdowns is dicey for the

1323
01:25:55,400 --> 01:26:00,120
Speaker 2: administration at Humboldt State University. The administration attempted to de

1324
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:03,839
Speaker 2: escalate and eventually euthanized the movement by trying to provide

1325
01:26:03,880 --> 01:26:06,519
Speaker 2: a safety valve, a way for students who'd had enough

1326
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:10,080
Speaker 2: to leave, along with the suggestion but not the actual

1327
01:26:10,200 --> 01:26:13,760
Speaker 2: legally binding promise that they wouldn't be punished if they did.

1328
01:26:14,240 --> 01:26:17,120
Speaker 2: And here's another clip from that interview. I understand that

1329
01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:19,439
Speaker 2: the school even set up basically a booth where you

1330
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:23,120
Speaker 2: could come and officially like de register yourself from the

1331
01:26:23,200 --> 01:26:26,720
Speaker 2: protests in order to not get expelled or something like that.

1332
01:26:27,040 --> 01:26:31,759
Speaker 2: Is that a like I think you're It was unclear

1333
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:34,200
Speaker 2: to me from what I read, like exactly how that

1334
01:26:34,479 --> 01:26:37,400
Speaker 2: system was supposed to function, but it seemed kind of shady,

1335
01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:39,040
Speaker 2: so they.

1336
01:26:39,080 --> 01:26:41,360
Speaker 14: Wanted us to So they set up a table by

1337
01:26:41,400 --> 01:26:43,439
Speaker 14: one of the exits, and they wanted us to like

1338
01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:49,800
Speaker 14: give them like our information, and they were like, if

1339
01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:53,439
Speaker 14: you do this, you won't get immediately arrested. But keep

1340
01:26:53,479 --> 01:26:57,679
Speaker 14: in mind they said not immediately arrested, And they even

1341
01:26:57,840 --> 01:27:01,240
Speaker 14: clarified like in their alert about they were like, by

1342
01:27:01,320 --> 01:27:04,160
Speaker 14: the way, this doesn't protect you from any future consequences.

1343
01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:06,360
Speaker 12: So it was like, why would we do that? Then?

1344
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:08,320
Speaker 12: What is that a doing for any of us?

1345
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:11,840
Speaker 10: I don't think a single person took that opportunity back

1346
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:12,439
Speaker 10: in Portland.

1347
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:16,400
Speaker 2: After the detunt with the school administration, things continued awkwardly

1348
01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:17,160
Speaker 2: but smoothly.

1349
01:27:17,240 --> 01:27:18,320
Speaker 11: For the next day or so.

1350
01:27:19,040 --> 01:27:22,960
Speaker 2: Protesters continued to fortify the library defenses while students entered

1351
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:25,599
Speaker 2: and exited and used it at will, although the school

1352
01:27:25,640 --> 01:27:29,000
Speaker 2: did shut it down early on Monday. In the meantime,

1353
01:27:29,320 --> 01:27:32,320
Speaker 2: protesters used the small space available to them to set

1354
01:27:32,400 --> 01:27:36,120
Speaker 2: up minimal infrastructure as an humble, small kitchen tent was

1355
01:27:36,160 --> 01:27:38,880
Speaker 2: put up, along with a larger medical tent, a designated

1356
01:27:39,000 --> 01:27:41,760
Speaker 2: smoking area tent, and an art station for people to

1357
01:27:41,800 --> 01:27:45,599
Speaker 2: make signs to hang from the barricades. Donations began coming

1358
01:27:45,680 --> 01:27:48,600
Speaker 2: in on Saturday night and flooded in on Sunday, the

1359
01:27:48,720 --> 01:27:52,360
Speaker 2: point that by Monday protesters had stopped accepting donations of

1360
01:27:52,800 --> 01:27:54,760
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff like food and water, but also

1361
01:27:54,840 --> 01:27:57,560
Speaker 2: things like batteries and generators because they just didn't have

1362
01:27:57,680 --> 01:28:00,840
Speaker 2: room to take any more of them. During these weekend

1363
01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:04,519
Speaker 2: days and nights, those of the encampment discussed demands, their plans,

1364
01:28:04,600 --> 01:28:08,160
Speaker 2: and strategy for the future. One topic of discussion involved

1365
01:28:08,160 --> 01:28:11,560
Speaker 2: the houseless. Would local houseless people be welcome inside the

1366
01:28:11,680 --> 01:28:13,760
Speaker 2: encampment and would they be welcomed to some of the

1367
01:28:13,880 --> 01:28:17,479
Speaker 2: donated resources. The ultimate decision, and I hear that this

1368
01:28:17,640 --> 01:28:20,679
Speaker 2: was not a particularly controversial one, was yes.

1369
01:28:21,240 --> 01:28:21,400
Speaker 4: Now.

1370
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:24,000
Speaker 2: I should also note here that the Humboldt students we

1371
01:28:24,120 --> 01:28:28,679
Speaker 2: talked with claimed that their school's treatment of houseless residents earlier,

1372
01:28:28,840 --> 01:28:30,920
Speaker 2: like a couple of years ago, was one of the

1373
01:28:31,040 --> 01:28:35,080
Speaker 2: inciting incidents of this occupation. Obviously, the genocide in Gaza

1374
01:28:35,240 --> 01:28:38,200
Speaker 2: was the spark and purpose for why the occupation at

1375
01:28:38,240 --> 01:28:41,439
Speaker 2: Humboldt happened and why this occupation at PSU happened. But

1376
01:28:41,560 --> 01:28:44,120
Speaker 2: nothing happens in a vacuum. And I wanted to include

1377
01:28:44,160 --> 01:28:47,120
Speaker 2: this bit from the interview because I think it's interesting.

1378
01:28:47,400 --> 01:28:50,439
Speaker 12: We're joking about this is life the third strike for

1379
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:55,120
Speaker 12: administration because in twenty twenty two, the La Times released

1380
01:28:55,160 --> 01:29:00,160
Speaker 12: an article about how administration was kicking homeless students off

1381
01:29:00,200 --> 01:29:05,360
Speaker 12: campus for living in their vehicles. Jesus and I believe

1382
01:29:05,680 --> 01:29:08,320
Speaker 12: our university, out of all the cal States, has the

1383
01:29:08,439 --> 01:29:14,280
Speaker 12: highest rate of homeless students. Yeah, and so this kind

1384
01:29:14,320 --> 01:29:18,000
Speaker 12: of this outrage a lot of people, including people on campus.

1385
01:29:18,120 --> 01:29:21,240
Speaker 12: We actually had a few days encampment on campus for

1386
01:29:21,320 --> 01:29:24,400
Speaker 12: that too, I believe, and I feel like that never

1387
01:29:24,479 --> 01:29:29,439
Speaker 12: really got it got partially resolved, but Admin was like

1388
01:29:29,960 --> 01:29:35,200
Speaker 12: really fighting against all the possible options because there was

1389
01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:39,559
Speaker 12: like a couple of people arguing that, like we keep

1390
01:29:39,600 --> 01:29:41,639
Speaker 12: in mind, I don't even think these people were from campus,

1391
01:29:41,880 --> 01:29:45,000
Speaker 12: but apparently the two people like filed complaints about how

1392
01:29:45,120 --> 01:29:48,920
Speaker 12: the people living in their cars were like messy or something,

1393
01:29:50,920 --> 01:29:54,000
Speaker 12: and so one of our requests was like, Okay, maybe

1394
01:29:54,160 --> 01:29:57,400
Speaker 12: like we could get a few more gumpsters or trash

1395
01:29:57,479 --> 01:30:00,840
Speaker 12: cans in the area where people are living. Yeah, And

1396
01:30:01,240 --> 01:30:05,080
Speaker 12: I'm just totally fought back against that, and so that

1397
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 12: was like what we're jokingly calling, like, oh, that was

1398
01:30:08,400 --> 01:30:12,040
Speaker 12: like strike one and then strike two. We were saying,

1399
01:30:12,200 --> 01:30:15,600
Speaker 12: is the faculty strike that happened earlier, I think this

1400
01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:18,640
Speaker 12: semester that was I think all over the state, But

1401
01:30:18,720 --> 01:30:22,400
Speaker 12: it really only lasted like one day, despite the momentum

1402
01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:27,360
Speaker 12: for possibly lasting longer than that. And Admin wanted like

1403
01:30:27,520 --> 01:30:30,479
Speaker 12: sent out an email saying like if your faculty isn't

1404
01:30:30,479 --> 01:30:35,720
Speaker 12: holding classes, put their names here, geesh, and obviously all

1405
01:30:35,720 --> 01:30:38,240
Speaker 12: of us were like, what are you talking like you

1406
01:30:38,320 --> 01:30:41,280
Speaker 12: want us to like you're asking us to snitch on

1407
01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:45,120
Speaker 12: our like professors and faculty right now. So that's what

1408
01:30:45,200 --> 01:30:48,120
Speaker 12: we're joking, is like strike two because we're like, we're

1409
01:30:48,120 --> 01:30:50,719
Speaker 12: not doing that. And then this is what we're calling

1410
01:30:50,840 --> 01:30:53,280
Speaker 12: strike three. And I was like joking earlier wh to everyone,

1411
01:30:53,320 --> 01:30:56,120
Speaker 12: I was like, strike three and we're out. Strike three

1412
01:30:56,200 --> 01:30:59,040
Speaker 12: and they're out, and everyone was like, yeah, I freaking hope.

1413
01:30:58,920 --> 01:31:03,200
Speaker 2: So can't be. Occupations like this are always complex things,

1414
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:06,120
Speaker 2: not just in the different motivating factors that come together

1415
01:31:06,200 --> 01:31:09,120
Speaker 2: to make situations like this possible, but in the ways

1416
01:31:09,240 --> 01:31:13,320
Speaker 2: in which extant student groups and organizations that arise spontaneously

1417
01:31:13,560 --> 01:31:16,600
Speaker 2: due to the pressures of the moment, interface and interact.

1418
01:31:17,280 --> 01:31:19,759
Speaker 2: When I arrived at the encampment at about one PM,

1419
01:31:19,920 --> 01:31:23,240
Speaker 2: I was introduced to several media liaisons for the occupation.

1420
01:31:23,920 --> 01:31:27,080
Speaker 2: They were extremely careful with what they said. A lot

1421
01:31:27,160 --> 01:31:28,920
Speaker 2: of it was just kind of repeating the list of

1422
01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:31,640
Speaker 2: agreed upon demands that the protesters had come up with.

1423
01:31:31,920 --> 01:31:34,000
Speaker 2: I did ask about a few other things. I wanted

1424
01:31:34,040 --> 01:31:36,439
Speaker 2: to know how protests in twenty twenty in protests on

1425
01:31:36,520 --> 01:31:40,240
Speaker 2: other campuses had impacted the tactics being seen here. The

1426
01:31:40,320 --> 01:31:43,680
Speaker 2: most common response I got to my questions where variations

1427
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:46,680
Speaker 2: of that's not something we'd like to talk about. But

1428
01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:48,880
Speaker 2: they did go into detail in a couple of things,

1429
01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:51,240
Speaker 2: and one of those was what it would take to

1430
01:31:51,360 --> 01:31:56,720
Speaker 2: actually conclude this occupation. They noted that if representatives of

1431
01:31:56,880 --> 01:31:59,760
Speaker 2: the campus administration, including the president, were to come to

1432
01:31:59,800 --> 01:32:03,040
Speaker 2: them and make concrete steps to divest from Boeing and

1433
01:32:03,360 --> 01:32:07,880
Speaker 2: other military contractors that the school currently has a direct

1434
01:32:07,960 --> 01:32:11,240
Speaker 2: financial relationship with, that that could be the basis for

1435
01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:14,759
Speaker 2: moving forward in some way to start reducing the extent

1436
01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:18,040
Speaker 2: of the encampment. Possibly, so that seemed to be kind

1437
01:32:18,040 --> 01:32:20,839
Speaker 2: of their line, if we actually see some real evidence

1438
01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:24,680
Speaker 2: that the school is divesting from these military investments that

1439
01:32:24,760 --> 01:32:29,240
Speaker 2: they have, will be willing to negotiate further. But what

1440
01:32:29,400 --> 01:32:31,680
Speaker 2: the school has done thus far, basically just announcing a

1441
01:32:31,760 --> 01:32:34,000
Speaker 2: pause and saying we'll meet about the Boeing thing later,

1442
01:32:34,479 --> 01:32:39,000
Speaker 2: that's not enough. The liaisons I talked to also made

1443
01:32:39,040 --> 01:32:41,519
Speaker 2: it clear that they found the wide wave of campus

1444
01:32:41,600 --> 01:32:44,280
Speaker 2: actions around the country inspiring and that that had had

1445
01:32:44,280 --> 01:32:47,400
Speaker 2: an impact on how things were being carried out at PSU.

1446
01:32:48,240 --> 01:32:51,000
Speaker 2: I was pretty impressed by their message discipline to be honest.

1447
01:32:51,200 --> 01:32:53,200
Speaker 2: As a journalist, you want people to talk to you,

1448
01:32:53,360 --> 01:32:55,880
Speaker 2: but actions like this are dangerous, and cops aren't the

1449
01:32:55,960 --> 01:32:59,439
Speaker 2: only danger. Anytime your movement gets pressed the attention that

1450
01:32:59,520 --> 01:33:03,479
Speaker 2: it acts will also attract grifters, particularly of the right

1451
01:33:03,520 --> 01:33:06,680
Speaker 2: wing variety, people who want to find someone they can

1452
01:33:06,800 --> 01:33:09,679
Speaker 2: catch saying something aggressive or dumb, or that just sounds

1453
01:33:09,760 --> 01:33:14,200
Speaker 2: bad out of context. You, as organizers and activists, want

1454
01:33:14,240 --> 01:33:17,040
Speaker 2: to keep attention on your goals and message and away

1455
01:33:17,120 --> 01:33:20,120
Speaker 2: from that kind of bullshit. I should also note that

1456
01:33:20,200 --> 01:33:23,320
Speaker 2: there were some mentions of their desire that the campus

1457
01:33:24,479 --> 01:33:27,200
Speaker 2: essentially carry out an amnesty policy for people who had

1458
01:33:27,240 --> 01:33:30,200
Speaker 2: already been involved in the occupation, so that nobody would

1459
01:33:30,240 --> 01:33:32,479
Speaker 2: get kicked out of the school as a result of

1460
01:33:32,920 --> 01:33:36,360
Speaker 2: their participation in this movement. I've heard similar things from

1461
01:33:36,400 --> 01:33:40,120
Speaker 2: the protesters and Humboldt. Yeah, it was an interesting conversation,

1462
01:33:40,400 --> 01:33:55,160
Speaker 2: and what's also interesting are these ads and we're back

1463
01:33:56,000 --> 01:33:58,280
Speaker 2: as my time at the protest on Monday, war On,

1464
01:33:58,640 --> 01:34:01,840
Speaker 2: Individuals from the occupation would occasionally march through the crowd

1465
01:34:01,920 --> 01:34:04,640
Speaker 2: and around the encampment, which grew at its height of

1466
01:34:04,720 --> 01:34:06,880
Speaker 2: the day to around five hundred or so people. In

1467
01:34:06,960 --> 01:34:10,360
Speaker 2: the late afternoon. This was a mix of protesters, including

1468
01:34:10,439 --> 01:34:13,120
Speaker 2: people from a march that had formed elsewhere and ended

1469
01:34:13,240 --> 01:34:16,920
Speaker 2: up at PSU, and some bystanders, a lot of whom

1470
01:34:16,960 --> 01:34:20,760
Speaker 2: were students sitting nearby dorms. People who were members of

1471
01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:24,320
Speaker 2: the occupation would ask passers by and media not to

1472
01:34:24,400 --> 01:34:27,519
Speaker 2: film protesters and encourage folks to get involved and help

1473
01:34:27,560 --> 01:34:30,840
Speaker 2: with the occupation. Pamphlets on their goals were handed out,

1474
01:34:31,280 --> 01:34:35,080
Speaker 2: and pamphlets on radical political action were passed around. There

1475
01:34:35,080 --> 01:34:38,439
Speaker 2: were also some people tabling for different causes. There was

1476
01:34:38,720 --> 01:34:41,439
Speaker 2: one group of people who were taking down folks information

1477
01:34:42,320 --> 01:34:45,000
Speaker 2: in order to support essentially a ballot measure that would

1478
01:34:45,040 --> 01:34:48,000
Speaker 2: increase the tax on corporations worth more than twenty five

1479
01:34:48,080 --> 01:34:50,240
Speaker 2: million dollars that were based in the city of Portland,

1480
01:34:50,320 --> 01:34:53,640
Speaker 2: which sounded nice to me. And in addition to that,

1481
01:34:54,240 --> 01:34:58,000
Speaker 2: there were people who were working to organize a you know,

1482
01:34:58,280 --> 01:35:01,240
Speaker 2: one of those Sorry his very late, but essentially how

1483
01:35:01,320 --> 01:35:03,960
Speaker 2: people are a lot of people are attempting to get

1484
01:35:04,000 --> 01:35:09,120
Speaker 2: people to organize to like register is unaffiliated and the primaries,

1485
01:35:09,200 --> 01:35:11,960
Speaker 2: especially in order to like, you know, make a statement

1486
01:35:12,160 --> 01:35:15,000
Speaker 2: to the Biden administration about their support of Israel. There

1487
01:35:15,040 --> 01:35:18,639
Speaker 2: were folks who were trying to raise and get people

1488
01:35:18,880 --> 01:35:21,200
Speaker 2: involved in that as well. So again, you know, it

1489
01:35:21,360 --> 01:35:24,000
Speaker 2: was like many protests of this size involved a lot

1490
01:35:24,040 --> 01:35:27,680
Speaker 2: of people. Sometimes in the past, especially in Portland, I

1491
01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:32,439
Speaker 2: have seen kind of more extreme and yeah, let's say

1492
01:35:32,520 --> 01:35:36,519
Speaker 2: extreme activists get angry at stuff like this, particularly when

1493
01:35:36,560 --> 01:35:40,040
Speaker 2: it's asking folks to like fill out or sign petitions.

1494
01:35:40,520 --> 01:35:44,240
Speaker 2: There's some concern obviously that like that could effectively docs

1495
01:35:44,320 --> 01:35:47,000
Speaker 2: people who are there. I've always found that concern a

1496
01:35:47,040 --> 01:35:49,439
Speaker 2: little silly. I think people can be trusted to kind

1497
01:35:49,479 --> 01:35:51,760
Speaker 2: of measure their own threat matrix and decide am I

1498
01:35:51,800 --> 01:35:53,880
Speaker 2: going to be doing anything at this protest? That means

1499
01:35:53,920 --> 01:35:56,040
Speaker 2: I shouldn't, you know, put down on a piece of

1500
01:35:56,080 --> 01:35:59,080
Speaker 2: paper that I was around here that issue. I didn't

1501
01:35:59,160 --> 01:36:03,760
Speaker 2: notice at this Everyone seemed pretty copasetic, and as a

1502
01:36:03,840 --> 01:36:07,479
Speaker 2: general rule, it was quite peaceful. Folks seemed more or

1503
01:36:07,560 --> 01:36:11,400
Speaker 2: less on the same page. The mostly masked protesters that

1504
01:36:11,520 --> 01:36:14,360
Speaker 2: I met were a pretty diverse lot, and this included

1505
01:36:14,360 --> 01:36:16,599
Speaker 2: a number of Muslim students, at least one of whom

1506
01:36:16,720 --> 01:36:19,840
Speaker 2: I watched prey before taking their place on the barricade.

1507
01:36:20,479 --> 01:36:23,120
Speaker 2: I also noticed numbers of students in his jobs watching

1508
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:26,160
Speaker 2: from nearby windows, and eventually from the park out in

1509
01:36:26,240 --> 01:36:29,759
Speaker 2: front of the occupation. From conversations I had on the ground,

1510
01:36:29,880 --> 01:36:32,800
Speaker 2: I became aware of the fact that several student organizations

1511
01:36:32,840 --> 01:36:36,960
Speaker 2: were hesitant to support, particularly the weekend occupations, as they

1512
01:36:37,000 --> 01:36:40,040
Speaker 2: had had concerns for the safety of their Palestinian members.

1513
01:36:40,720 --> 01:36:44,800
Speaker 2: One particularly salient fear was that fordn students who participated

1514
01:36:44,840 --> 01:36:48,160
Speaker 2: and were arrested might risk not just their academic status

1515
01:36:48,320 --> 01:36:51,400
Speaker 2: but their ability to stay in country. And I know

1516
01:36:51,479 --> 01:36:53,960
Speaker 2: that a number of the protesters I met there who

1517
01:36:54,080 --> 01:36:57,960
Speaker 2: were particularly you know, white folks, felt like one reason

1518
01:36:58,040 --> 01:37:02,240
Speaker 2: they needed to participate was that they could participate without

1519
01:37:02,479 --> 01:37:05,880
Speaker 2: taking that kind of risk. On for the largest portion

1520
01:37:05,960 --> 01:37:09,000
Speaker 2: of the day Monday, I watched his activists reinforce the

1521
01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:11,599
Speaker 2: barricades on one side of the library, and the crowd

1522
01:37:12,000 --> 01:37:15,320
Speaker 2: grew quite large in the park. Some signs I saw

1523
01:37:15,400 --> 01:37:18,439
Speaker 2: among the crowd and on the barricade included mass college

1524
01:37:18,520 --> 01:37:21,280
Speaker 2: protests are always on the right side of history, and

1525
01:37:21,880 --> 01:37:26,200
Speaker 2: fuck your homework. People are dying. There were speeches, but

1526
01:37:26,360 --> 01:37:28,880
Speaker 2: not much in the way of action until very late

1527
01:37:28,920 --> 01:37:30,640
Speaker 2: in the day, when all but maybe one hundred and

1528
01:37:30,720 --> 01:37:33,800
Speaker 2: fifty or so of the crowd had filtered away. My

1529
01:37:33,960 --> 01:37:36,600
Speaker 2: notes at the time say the big change happened at

1530
01:37:36,600 --> 01:37:40,400
Speaker 2: around six fifty five pm. By this point in the

1531
01:37:41,080 --> 01:37:44,280
Speaker 2: early evening, I had seen very little of the police.

1532
01:37:44,600 --> 01:37:47,040
Speaker 2: Every now and then, a few PSU cruisers would come

1533
01:37:47,120 --> 01:37:50,080
Speaker 2: by circling the area, and small groups of four or

1534
01:37:50,120 --> 01:37:53,320
Speaker 2: five hecklers carrying makeshift fishing poles with donuts on them

1535
01:37:53,560 --> 01:37:56,240
Speaker 2: would run beside the squad cars, basically trying to like

1536
01:37:56,479 --> 01:37:59,479
Speaker 2: tempt the police officers to go grab the donuts. This

1537
01:37:59,600 --> 01:38:03,000
Speaker 2: seemed to demoralize the campus officers enough that they mostly

1538
01:38:03,160 --> 01:38:06,960
Speaker 2: stayed away. I believe that at this point the city's

1539
01:38:07,040 --> 01:38:11,120
Speaker 2: plan and the administration's plan was to avoid doing anything

1540
01:38:11,240 --> 01:38:13,759
Speaker 2: fucked up and violent in front of such a large crowd,

1541
01:38:13,880 --> 01:38:16,760
Speaker 2: because that would be to risk restarting the whole twenty

1542
01:38:16,880 --> 01:38:18,559
Speaker 2: twenty Portland protest cycle.

1543
01:38:18,640 --> 01:38:20,960
Speaker 11: Again. Remember, it's not just as simple as can we

1544
01:38:21,040 --> 01:38:21,960
Speaker 11: crush this protest?

1545
01:38:22,040 --> 01:38:24,479
Speaker 2: But if we go kick all these people out now

1546
01:38:24,640 --> 01:38:27,679
Speaker 2: and a bunch of them get seen in broad daylight

1547
01:38:27,720 --> 01:38:30,000
Speaker 2: getting beaten and gassed, does that mean we have to

1548
01:38:30,040 --> 01:38:33,920
Speaker 2: deal with thousands of people in the street tomorrow. Honestly,

1549
01:38:34,160 --> 01:38:37,360
Speaker 2: staying away was the smart play on behalf of the police,

1550
01:38:37,520 --> 01:38:39,639
Speaker 2: and as a result of them making the smart play,

1551
01:38:39,920 --> 01:38:43,559
Speaker 2: protesters in the encampment were themselves confronted with a choice.

1552
01:38:44,320 --> 01:38:46,719
Speaker 2: The space that they had been allowed by the school

1553
01:38:46,800 --> 01:38:50,120
Speaker 2: to occupy in the sort of weird Dayton situation had

1554
01:38:50,200 --> 01:38:52,960
Speaker 2: been filled both with donations and just the number of

1555
01:38:53,040 --> 01:38:56,240
Speaker 2: people who were inside the occupation. There was no room

1556
01:38:56,400 --> 01:38:59,479
Speaker 2: to make it any bigger. So their next options were

1557
01:38:59,600 --> 01:39:04,000
Speaker 2: either number one, expand the occupation to the park and

1558
01:39:04,080 --> 01:39:07,879
Speaker 2: the Portland Police Bureau has the ability to legal ability

1559
01:39:08,160 --> 01:39:11,559
Speaker 2: and obviously the gear to clear out the park. In addition,

1560
01:39:11,760 --> 01:39:15,240
Speaker 2: just from a tactical level, it's difficult to defend an

1561
01:39:15,400 --> 01:39:17,720
Speaker 2: encampment in that park the way that it's set up.

1562
01:39:17,880 --> 01:39:20,919
Speaker 2: You really don't have you know, you're kind of surrounded

1563
01:39:20,920 --> 01:39:23,640
Speaker 2: on all sides. The police can really mess with you.

1564
01:39:23,840 --> 01:39:26,120
Speaker 2: I've been gassed in that park a few times, I'm

1565
01:39:26,160 --> 01:39:29,200
Speaker 2: quite aware. The other option they had was take the

1566
01:39:29,439 --> 01:39:33,200
Speaker 2: entire library building and force a response from both PSU

1567
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:36,519
Speaker 2: and the city government. This would obviously give them warm

1568
01:39:36,640 --> 01:39:39,280
Speaker 2: room to maneuver, give them more room to take in

1569
01:39:39,439 --> 01:39:43,720
Speaker 2: more people, and it would force an escalation with the

1570
01:39:43,840 --> 01:39:46,080
Speaker 2: city government and with the school, which is you know,

1571
01:39:46,240 --> 01:39:48,759
Speaker 2: what they were looking for. Again, this is overall about

1572
01:39:49,200 --> 01:39:53,040
Speaker 2: particularly their school, not divesting from companies that they see

1573
01:39:53,120 --> 01:39:57,240
Speaker 2: is complicit in the genocide in Gaza, and about you know,

1574
01:39:57,560 --> 01:40:01,680
Speaker 2: wanting to force a response from that's school's leadership. You know,

1575
01:40:01,840 --> 01:40:04,400
Speaker 2: There's a lot more to it than that, but that's

1576
01:40:04,479 --> 01:40:06,280
Speaker 2: what they were trying to do, and that's what they

1577
01:40:06,400 --> 01:40:09,200
Speaker 2: chose to do. A little before seven pm, someone on

1578
01:40:09,280 --> 01:40:11,720
Speaker 2: a bullhorn came out and began asking all of the

1579
01:40:11,800 --> 01:40:14,679
Speaker 2: people who were still there who was willing to engage

1580
01:40:14,720 --> 01:40:17,360
Speaker 2: in real militant action, and for those people to come

1581
01:40:17,439 --> 01:40:21,120
Speaker 2: help occupy the library. Those who were less willing to

1582
01:40:21,320 --> 01:40:24,000
Speaker 2: risk charges but still down for the cause should form

1583
01:40:24,120 --> 01:40:26,280
Speaker 2: ranks out in front of the property. There were people

1584
01:40:26,360 --> 01:40:29,560
Speaker 2: with shields, etc. They looked like little bitty pealanxes.

1585
01:40:29,680 --> 01:40:29,840
Speaker 12: You know.

1586
01:40:30,040 --> 01:40:33,640
Speaker 2: People had a mix of umbrellas and shields and you know,

1587
01:40:33,800 --> 01:40:37,400
Speaker 2: usually two lines thick or so of people linking arms.

1588
01:40:37,479 --> 01:40:39,360
Speaker 2: And I thought at first they were just kind of

1589
01:40:39,400 --> 01:40:41,360
Speaker 2: getting ready for the police to come in to sort

1590
01:40:41,400 --> 01:40:44,919
Speaker 2: of resist the charge if they occupied more of the library,

1591
01:40:45,000 --> 01:40:47,679
Speaker 2: But that's not what happened. For a few minutes, different

1592
01:40:47,840 --> 01:40:50,200
Speaker 2: organizers kind of put these groups of people together and

1593
01:40:50,840 --> 01:40:53,800
Speaker 2: drilled them, walk them through basic tactics, talked about what

1594
01:40:54,000 --> 01:40:57,040
Speaker 2: they should expect, and not long after this, two different

1595
01:40:57,160 --> 01:41:01,519
Speaker 2: PSU police cruisers began to coach from two different streets

1596
01:41:02,240 --> 01:41:05,240
Speaker 2: both of these different groups of people. These little platoons

1597
01:41:05,439 --> 01:41:08,959
Speaker 2: split up and one would confront each vehicle. The officers

1598
01:41:09,000 --> 01:41:11,880
Speaker 2: were badly outnumbered in both cases, and they pulled back

1599
01:41:12,320 --> 01:41:18,160
Speaker 2: and essentially left the library without anyone really watching over it.

1600
01:41:18,680 --> 01:41:21,200
Speaker 2: The activists who were inside the library used this as

1601
01:41:21,240 --> 01:41:24,240
Speaker 2: an excuse to occupy the rest of the building. Once

1602
01:41:24,280 --> 01:41:27,320
Speaker 2: the police cruisers had been forced back, the protesters from

1603
01:41:27,360 --> 01:41:30,719
Speaker 2: these platoons started grabbing heavy objects that were just around

1604
01:41:30,800 --> 01:41:33,320
Speaker 2: them on the campus and dragging them back to fortify

1605
01:41:33,400 --> 01:41:36,320
Speaker 2: the entrances and exits to the structure. Much of this

1606
01:41:36,439 --> 01:41:38,840
Speaker 2: took the form of black clad activists swarming onto a

1607
01:41:38,920 --> 01:41:42,559
Speaker 2: sports field behind the library and grabbing soccer goals, football

1608
01:41:42,640 --> 01:41:45,160
Speaker 2: training sleds, and other heavy pieces of equipment and using

1609
01:41:45,240 --> 01:41:47,800
Speaker 2: them to wall off exits and entrances to the ground

1610
01:41:47,840 --> 01:41:48,719
Speaker 2: floor of the building.

1611
01:41:49,240 --> 01:41:50,360
Speaker 11: I watched one group.

1612
01:41:50,200 --> 01:41:53,200
Speaker 2: Of protesters cut through locks to liberate a pair of dumpsters,

1613
01:41:53,320 --> 01:41:55,640
Speaker 2: which quickly found their way into the barricades in the

1614
01:41:55,680 --> 01:41:58,679
Speaker 2: front of the structure. I did not into the library,

1615
01:41:59,000 --> 01:42:01,479
Speaker 2: fairly certain that would been illegal, but I did see

1616
01:42:01,560 --> 01:42:04,759
Speaker 2: numerous people running around on floors above ground level setting

1617
01:42:04,840 --> 01:42:07,760
Speaker 2: up the space for a proper occupation. I was told

1618
01:42:07,840 --> 01:42:10,559
Speaker 2: by at least one person that activists were purposely keeping

1619
01:42:10,600 --> 01:42:13,479
Speaker 2: the interior space accessible to those with wheelchairs, and there

1620
01:42:13,520 --> 01:42:15,720
Speaker 2: were a number of folks with wheelchairs who I saw

1621
01:42:15,840 --> 01:42:19,360
Speaker 2: outside at the occupation. I did not see any specific

1622
01:42:19,439 --> 01:42:23,200
Speaker 2: people inside. I left after nine pm, having been on

1623
01:42:23,280 --> 01:42:26,160
Speaker 2: the ground and wearing my armor for about eight hours

1624
01:42:26,240 --> 01:42:29,000
Speaker 2: the day after landing back in Portland. That was all

1625
01:42:29,040 --> 01:42:31,040
Speaker 2: I had in me, but quite a few people were

1626
01:42:31,040 --> 01:42:34,080
Speaker 2: still present, both outside and inside the library when I left.

1627
01:42:34,720 --> 01:42:37,080
Speaker 2: Roughly an hour after I got home and started writing

1628
01:42:37,160 --> 01:42:40,640
Speaker 2: this episode at about eleven pm PST, a series of

1629
01:42:40,720 --> 01:42:44,280
Speaker 2: frantic late night phone calls resulted in the president of PSU,

1630
01:42:44,560 --> 01:42:47,479
Speaker 2: Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler, the Chief of Police for Portland

1631
01:42:47,800 --> 01:42:51,160
Speaker 2: and the City DA Mike Schmidt, holding an emergency press conference.

1632
01:42:51,800 --> 01:42:55,639
Speaker 2: Local KTU reporter tan vy Varma summarized the conference message

1633
01:42:56,000 --> 01:42:57,000
Speaker 2: this way on Twitter.

1634
01:42:57,360 --> 01:42:57,679
Speaker 4: Quote.

1635
01:42:58,080 --> 01:43:01,400
Speaker 2: PSU president said, the protesters damage property and I've broken

1636
01:43:01,439 --> 01:43:04,240
Speaker 2: into the library. She says she cannot entertain property damage

1637
01:43:04,320 --> 01:43:06,519
Speaker 2: or breaking an entering. She asked them to choose to

1638
01:43:06,600 --> 01:43:09,320
Speaker 2: engage civilly. She says they'll be asking PPB to remove

1639
01:43:09,360 --> 01:43:12,720
Speaker 2: the trespassers from the library. PPB Police chief says he'd

1640
01:43:12,840 --> 01:43:15,720
Speaker 2: like to resolve this with no force or arrests. He

1641
01:43:15,800 --> 01:43:17,479
Speaker 2: has asked those who are breaking the law in the

1642
01:43:17,520 --> 01:43:21,760
Speaker 2: protest to stop. It's unclear to me at present how

1643
01:43:21,800 --> 01:43:23,680
Speaker 2: many of this is going to shake out. As I

1644
01:43:23,800 --> 01:43:26,679
Speaker 2: type this, the occupation at Humboldt is under heavy attack

1645
01:43:26,800 --> 01:43:28,880
Speaker 2: and it sounds like it's going to be quite ugly.

1646
01:43:29,400 --> 01:43:33,240
Speaker 2: Hey everyone, so you know, again this is a little

1647
01:43:33,280 --> 01:43:35,519
Speaker 2: messy because I wrote this late last night. I woke

1648
01:43:35,600 --> 01:43:37,519
Speaker 2: up in the morning to listen to the edit of

1649
01:43:37,560 --> 01:43:40,320
Speaker 2: it and some things that happened in the early hours

1650
01:43:40,360 --> 01:43:43,920
Speaker 2: of Tuesday morning. About twenty five people were arrested after

1651
01:43:44,040 --> 01:43:46,840
Speaker 2: more than a hundred riot officers arrived at the cow

1652
01:43:46,960 --> 01:43:51,360
Speaker 2: Poly Humboldt campus and cracked down on the Gaza protest occupation.

1653
01:43:51,720 --> 01:43:56,040
Speaker 2: Riot police arrived around two thirty am. Legal observers say,

1654
01:43:56,360 --> 01:43:59,160
Speaker 2: no injuries. It's kind of really unclear to me how

1655
01:43:59,240 --> 01:44:03,240
Speaker 2: bad it was what actually happened, but you know, quite

1656
01:44:03,240 --> 01:44:05,960
Speaker 2: a few people have been arrested, and at this point

1657
01:44:06,160 --> 01:44:08,479
Speaker 2: it looks like they're being charged with some pretty narly

1658
01:44:08,560 --> 01:44:13,400
Speaker 2: crimes conspiracy, I think, assault on a police officer. So

1659
01:44:14,000 --> 01:44:15,519
Speaker 2: this is one of those things that's going to be

1660
01:44:15,640 --> 01:44:20,200
Speaker 2: an ongoing story. The university accused the occupiers of doing

1661
01:44:20,240 --> 01:44:23,800
Speaker 2: more than a million dollars worth of damage to university property.

1662
01:44:24,520 --> 01:44:26,840
Speaker 2: I'll actually just read a quote here from an MSN article.

1663
01:44:27,000 --> 01:44:30,160
Speaker 2: Those arrested faced a range of different charges depending on

1664
01:44:30,280 --> 01:44:35,719
Speaker 2: individual circumstances, including unlawful assembly, vandalism, conspiracy, assault of police officers,

1665
01:44:35,800 --> 01:44:39,720
Speaker 2: and others. In addition, students could face discipline for conduct violations,

1666
01:44:39,840 --> 01:44:44,080
Speaker 2: while any university employees arrested could face disciplinary action. That's

1667
01:44:44,120 --> 01:44:48,080
Speaker 2: them quoting a university news release. So that's kind of

1668
01:44:48,160 --> 01:44:51,360
Speaker 2: where we are with cal Poly Humboldt. I wanted to

1669
01:44:51,479 --> 01:44:55,280
Speaker 2: note that the folks that we talk to, who I

1670
01:44:55,439 --> 01:44:58,400
Speaker 2: hope are doing well, had requested that we send people

1671
01:44:58,439 --> 01:44:59,920
Speaker 2: to donate to a bail fund, if at all poss

1672
01:45:00,320 --> 01:45:03,240
Speaker 2: If you want to find that and support the Humboldt protesters,

1673
01:45:03,320 --> 01:45:07,360
Speaker 2: you can go to rally dot org slash arc Bailfund.

1674
01:45:07,520 --> 01:45:12,519
Speaker 2: That's rally dot org slash AARC bail fund, so that

1675
01:45:12,560 --> 01:45:15,479
Speaker 2: would help out with those folks who currently need it.

1676
01:45:15,880 --> 01:45:19,720
Speaker 2: There has also been a request to call the university

1677
01:45:19,960 --> 01:45:24,200
Speaker 2: and request the release of Humboldt protesters for Palestine. The

1678
01:45:24,320 --> 01:45:27,680
Speaker 2: CPH University police phone number is seven oh seven eight

1679
01:45:27,720 --> 01:45:31,320
Speaker 2: two six five five five five. There is a suggested

1680
01:45:31,400 --> 01:45:34,200
Speaker 2: script which I'm going to read here. Hi, my name

1681
01:45:34,320 --> 01:45:36,320
Speaker 2: is blank, and I demand the immediate release of the

1682
01:45:36,479 --> 01:45:40,639
Speaker 2: arrested Humboldt student and faculty protesters for Palestine. They should

1683
01:45:40,640 --> 01:45:43,120
Speaker 2: not be charged, let alone rated an attack for being

1684
01:45:43,160 --> 01:45:45,559
Speaker 2: on the right side of history. They include, but are

1685
01:45:45,640 --> 01:45:50,520
Speaker 2: not only, Fern McBride, Olivia Fox, Jared Cruz, Ruhala Agacella,

1686
01:45:51,000 --> 01:45:55,840
Speaker 2: Lana Word, Alison Merten, Isaiah Morales, and Adelmi Ruiz. So

1687
01:45:56,800 --> 01:46:00,240
Speaker 2: that's where things are with Humboldt University, I thought are

1688
01:46:00,280 --> 01:46:03,200
Speaker 2: with the people who are arrested, the people who were

1689
01:46:03,400 --> 01:46:06,439
Speaker 2: forced out of the occupation. As of the recording and

1690
01:46:06,520 --> 01:46:10,519
Speaker 2: airing of this episode, the occupation at the PSU library

1691
01:46:11,240 --> 01:46:14,760
Speaker 2: is still in progress, and what will happen there is

1692
01:46:14,960 --> 01:46:19,920
Speaker 2: less clear. Throughout today Tuesday, the police and city government

1693
01:46:19,960 --> 01:46:24,120
Speaker 2: have made some pretty aggressive statements about clearing out the occupation.

1694
01:46:24,320 --> 01:46:27,960
Speaker 2: About criminal behavior there being unacceptable about their suspicion that

1695
01:46:28,000 --> 01:46:32,840
Speaker 2: there's been significant damage done to university property. For their part,

1696
01:46:32,960 --> 01:46:35,759
Speaker 2: protesters have promised that they will not damage any books.

1697
01:46:36,400 --> 01:46:40,240
Speaker 2: You know, We're going to see what's going to actually happen.

1698
01:46:40,760 --> 01:46:42,479
Speaker 2: What is clear to me at this point is that

1699
01:46:42,640 --> 01:46:45,040
Speaker 2: in the last day or so, the situation has gone

1700
01:46:45,080 --> 01:46:47,720
Speaker 2: from managed something where the police were every now and

1701
01:46:47,800 --> 01:46:51,120
Speaker 2: then clearing out tents and it was relatively under control,

1702
01:46:51,360 --> 01:46:54,040
Speaker 2: to something so out of control that it necessitated a

1703
01:46:54,200 --> 01:46:57,760
Speaker 2: late night press conference by the whole city government. So

1704
01:46:58,200 --> 01:47:02,480
Speaker 2: we will see where everything canludes with the PSU occupation,

1705
01:47:03,080 --> 01:47:04,800
Speaker 2: if the police come in and carry out a raid

1706
01:47:04,840 --> 01:47:08,480
Speaker 2: as was done an Humboldt, or if the university administration

1707
01:47:08,840 --> 01:47:11,920
Speaker 2: is willing to actually come to the table and make

1708
01:47:12,000 --> 01:47:15,559
Speaker 2: some of these solid steps towards divesting the university from

1709
01:47:15,640 --> 01:47:18,639
Speaker 2: companies like Boeing, which is what the protesters are demanding.

1710
01:47:19,200 --> 01:47:23,280
Speaker 2: All really unclear, but yeah, we will continue to cover

1711
01:47:23,400 --> 01:47:28,080
Speaker 2: this and you all continue to you know, be angry

1712
01:47:28,240 --> 01:47:32,320
Speaker 2: about bad things, and yeah, I don't know, I'm still

1713
01:47:32,479 --> 01:47:34,960
Speaker 2: very tired. Good luck to everybody who is out there

1714
01:47:35,000 --> 01:47:38,200
Speaker 2: in the streets. Robert Evans here and I wanted to

1715
01:47:38,240 --> 01:47:42,280
Speaker 2: give an update on Wednesday night. I'm I'm recording this

1716
01:47:42,360 --> 01:47:45,880
Speaker 2: around four forty pm on Wednesday, But a day after

1717
01:47:46,160 --> 01:47:48,960
Speaker 2: I recorded the original ending to this, some more stuff

1718
01:47:49,040 --> 01:47:53,639
Speaker 2: has happened. The occupation has continued. You know, on Monday night,

1719
01:47:53,760 --> 01:47:55,800
Speaker 2: only a small number of people stayed behind. I think

1720
01:47:55,840 --> 01:47:57,679
Speaker 2: there may be something like a dozen I was told

1721
01:47:58,520 --> 01:48:00,800
Speaker 2: who actually slept in the library that night. There was

1722
01:48:00,880 --> 01:48:02,800
Speaker 2: kind of an anticipation that the cops could come at

1723
01:48:02,800 --> 01:48:06,720
Speaker 2: any minute. The next day, word spread about the occupation

1724
01:48:06,880 --> 01:48:09,280
Speaker 2: and there were a lot more people in the library

1725
01:48:09,439 --> 01:48:13,240
Speaker 2: on Tuesday night, and as a result, it seems as

1726
01:48:13,439 --> 01:48:16,719
Speaker 2: if plans that had initially been down for the police

1727
01:48:16,760 --> 01:48:20,280
Speaker 2: to rate on Tuesday night were canceled. The Government of

1728
01:48:20,360 --> 01:48:24,320
Speaker 2: Portland published an article today and I'm going to quote

1729
01:48:24,320 --> 01:48:27,200
Speaker 2: from it here. The Portland Police Bureau places an emphasis

1730
01:48:27,240 --> 01:48:29,719
Speaker 2: on de escalation and time is a key de escalation

1731
01:48:29,880 --> 01:48:32,400
Speaker 2: tactic that we use whenever possible. That has not been

1732
01:48:32,439 --> 01:48:35,240
Speaker 2: my experience with them. If police action can be delayed

1733
01:48:35,240 --> 01:48:37,439
Speaker 2: to a time when conditions are safer, we will do so.

1734
01:48:37,600 --> 01:48:40,080
Speaker 2: An example of this occurred Tuesday evening. A plan was

1735
01:48:40,120 --> 01:48:43,559
Speaker 2: in place to resolve the library incident. However, conditions changed

1736
01:48:43,600 --> 01:48:45,720
Speaker 2: and the incident commander made the decision to delay for

1737
01:48:45,800 --> 01:48:48,400
Speaker 2: the well being of all concerned. My guess is that

1738
01:48:48,479 --> 01:48:51,200
Speaker 2: the conditions that changed largely were how many people were

1739
01:48:51,240 --> 01:48:53,400
Speaker 2: on the ground, as well as the fact that they

1740
01:48:53,439 --> 01:48:56,519
Speaker 2: didn't feel comfortable with their understanding of how much access

1741
01:48:56,560 --> 01:48:58,840
Speaker 2: students had gotten. You know, they didn't have a full

1742
01:48:58,880 --> 01:49:03,360
Speaker 2: operational plan involved. The police publication notes that there was

1743
01:49:03,400 --> 01:49:06,519
Speaker 2: a rumor circulated that the planned operation was scheduled due

1744
01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:09,560
Speaker 2: to a decision made by the DA's office. This is

1745
01:49:09,600 --> 01:49:13,560
Speaker 2: because the current District Attorney, Mike Schmidt, is considered a progressive.

1746
01:49:14,240 --> 01:49:16,880
Speaker 2: He made a decision not to prosecute all of the

1747
01:49:17,200 --> 01:49:20,000
Speaker 2: acts that he could have prosecuted in twenty twenty and

1748
01:49:20,080 --> 01:49:22,840
Speaker 2: has been kind of consistently attacked by the police and

1749
01:49:22,960 --> 01:49:25,639
Speaker 2: by conservatives in the city for this decision ever since.

1750
01:49:26,320 --> 01:49:29,200
Speaker 2: Schmidt did prosecute quite a few people in twenty twenty

1751
01:49:29,320 --> 01:49:31,640
Speaker 2: and beyond, and from the beginning of all of this

1752
01:49:31,880 --> 01:49:35,519
Speaker 2: said that his office will prosecute students and anyone else

1753
01:49:35,600 --> 01:49:38,479
Speaker 2: involved with the occupation. I think this is just election

1754
01:49:38,600 --> 01:49:41,320
Speaker 2: you're messaging by the police going after Schmidt because they

1755
01:49:41,400 --> 01:49:45,080
Speaker 2: want more of a hardliner in In either case, nothing

1756
01:49:45,200 --> 01:49:50,240
Speaker 2: was done Tuesday. The occupation continued to spread on Tuesday night.

1757
01:49:50,640 --> 01:49:54,679
Speaker 2: Students had a movie night. On Wednesday night. As I basically,

1758
01:49:54,760 --> 01:49:58,040
Speaker 2: as I record this, there's a barbecue and a lot

1759
01:49:58,080 --> 01:50:00,639
Speaker 2: of this is occurring kind of outside of the library

1760
01:50:00,760 --> 01:50:03,120
Speaker 2: and like the law and area around it, the idea

1761
01:50:03,200 --> 01:50:05,600
Speaker 2: basically being to keep numbers up in and around the

1762
01:50:05,680 --> 01:50:09,360
Speaker 2: library occupation to make it more politically costly and just

1763
01:50:09,520 --> 01:50:12,880
Speaker 2: harder for the police to actually force everyone out. While

1764
01:50:12,960 --> 01:50:17,560
Speaker 2: all this has been going on, faculty and student organizers

1765
01:50:17,600 --> 01:50:21,839
Speaker 2: have been meeting with the president of the university. Students

1766
01:50:21,960 --> 01:50:24,680
Speaker 2: refused initially to come to a negotiating table unless the

1767
01:50:24,760 --> 01:50:28,320
Speaker 2: demand their demands for full amnesty were guaranteed for students

1768
01:50:28,360 --> 01:50:30,880
Speaker 2: and non students who were taking part in the occupation.

1769
01:50:31,920 --> 01:50:34,280
Speaker 2: This is something When I talked to folks on Monday night,

1770
01:50:34,880 --> 01:50:37,920
Speaker 2: the focus was on There was some talk of amnesty,

1771
01:50:37,960 --> 01:50:39,680
Speaker 2: but a lot of the primary thing I was told

1772
01:50:39,720 --> 01:50:41,880
Speaker 2: about was that the school needed to divest from Boeing

1773
01:50:41,960 --> 01:50:45,960
Speaker 2: and other arms manufacturers. The demand for amnesty has grown

1774
01:50:46,200 --> 01:50:48,720
Speaker 2: as the occupation has become more of a real thing,

1775
01:50:48,760 --> 01:50:50,320
Speaker 2: which it had started to be by the end of

1776
01:50:50,400 --> 01:50:53,439
Speaker 2: my time there. On Monday, there was some initial talk

1777
01:50:53,920 --> 01:50:56,760
Speaker 2: from the university president that she was willing to not

1778
01:50:56,880 --> 01:50:59,920
Speaker 2: press charges. If you know, the students who were involved

1779
01:51:00,120 --> 01:51:02,640
Speaker 2: agreed not to violate the student Code of Conduct for

1780
01:51:02,720 --> 01:51:05,360
Speaker 2: the rest of their time at the university and basically

1781
01:51:05,479 --> 01:51:08,439
Speaker 2: handed all of their names over to the university. That

1782
01:51:08,640 --> 01:51:11,439
Speaker 2: was not an agreement that wound up coming through, very

1783
01:51:11,479 --> 01:51:14,080
Speaker 2: similar to what we saw at Humboldt. Right where you've

1784
01:51:14,160 --> 01:51:16,519
Speaker 2: got this the school being like, well, we'll offer some

1785
01:51:16,760 --> 01:51:19,280
Speaker 2: sort of amnesty, even though we can't really promise full

1786
01:51:19,320 --> 01:51:22,439
Speaker 2: amnesty because the DA can choose to prosecute people still,

1787
01:51:23,320 --> 01:51:25,040
Speaker 2: but if you sign your name up on this list

1788
01:51:25,120 --> 01:51:27,519
Speaker 2: that you were here in committing crimes, we'll kind of

1789
01:51:27,560 --> 01:51:30,320
Speaker 2: try to do something that did not wind up de

1790
01:51:30,560 --> 01:51:34,560
Speaker 2: escalating the situation. And as I record this, the library

1791
01:51:34,760 --> 01:51:38,840
Speaker 2: at PSU is still occupied by students. We'll see how

1792
01:51:38,880 --> 01:51:41,439
Speaker 2: all of this goes. You know, I've heard a number

1793
01:51:41,479 --> 01:51:45,840
Speaker 2: of things from inside the occupation. It's kind of one

1794
01:51:45,880 --> 01:51:48,080
Speaker 2: of those things where the full details of what's happening

1795
01:51:48,120 --> 01:51:51,120
Speaker 2: will shake out. It's been, as these things always are

1796
01:51:51,200 --> 01:51:53,360
Speaker 2: a little bit messy. The first night I was there

1797
01:51:53,400 --> 01:51:56,439
Speaker 2: and up through you know, a sizable chunk of Tuesday.

1798
01:51:56,520 --> 01:51:59,080
Speaker 2: You can find articles from media who showed up saying

1799
01:51:59,120 --> 01:52:01,960
Speaker 2: that protesters let them in and then at some point

1800
01:52:02,080 --> 01:52:04,680
Speaker 2: the people at the gates so to speak, changed and

1801
01:52:05,120 --> 01:52:07,559
Speaker 2: a number of press got in and took some pictures

1802
01:52:07,600 --> 01:52:10,120
Speaker 2: of the occupation. You can find those online. There's a

1803
01:52:10,160 --> 01:52:14,000
Speaker 2: lot of local reporters koyn and whatnot who have published

1804
01:52:14,560 --> 01:52:17,800
Speaker 2: different things about the occupation. It's been interesting to see

1805
01:52:17,880 --> 01:52:20,679
Speaker 2: like the reactions of different reporters because they change based

1806
01:52:20,720 --> 01:52:24,479
Speaker 2: on like the kind the reporter who's there, and kind

1807
01:52:24,479 --> 01:52:26,560
Speaker 2: of I think, how personable they are with people and

1808
01:52:26,760 --> 01:52:29,000
Speaker 2: the folks that they wind up meeting. So you'll you'll

1809
01:52:29,040 --> 01:52:31,880
Speaker 2: find some local reporters being like everyone was really nice,

1810
01:52:31,920 --> 01:52:33,280
Speaker 2: and some local reporters being.

1811
01:52:33,200 --> 01:52:34,720
Speaker 11: Like everybody was really mean.

1812
01:52:34,840 --> 01:52:37,200
Speaker 2: They wouldn't let me in, And it's you know, these

1813
01:52:37,240 --> 01:52:41,920
Speaker 2: are not uncommon things to encounter when you're seeing press

1814
01:52:42,160 --> 01:52:44,400
Speaker 2: interact with a protest like this. One of the things

1815
01:52:44,439 --> 01:52:47,160
Speaker 2: I do find interesting that has been emphasized to me

1816
01:52:47,280 --> 01:52:50,400
Speaker 2: by some of the older protesters who have been taking

1817
01:52:50,479 --> 01:52:54,439
Speaker 2: part in aspects of this occupation, is that the student

1818
01:52:54,520 --> 01:52:57,040
Speaker 2: protesters who are organizing and leading this, who are of

1819
01:52:57,040 --> 01:52:59,360
Speaker 2: course younger and we're too young to have generally been

1820
01:52:59,439 --> 01:53:03,560
Speaker 2: involved twenty twenty stuff. Are really open minded, you know,

1821
01:53:03,720 --> 01:53:07,320
Speaker 2: despite kind of political disagreements that may exist between people,

1822
01:53:07,360 --> 01:53:10,519
Speaker 2: there's this understanding that like folks are a lot less

1823
01:53:10,600 --> 01:53:14,760
Speaker 2: ossified and their beliefs about what constitutes valid action and

1824
01:53:14,840 --> 01:53:18,160
Speaker 2: what constitutes, you know, how people should proceed with things

1825
01:53:19,000 --> 01:53:20,920
Speaker 2: like generally, that has been impressed upon me by some

1826
01:53:21,000 --> 01:53:24,480
Speaker 2: of the older activists is that these younger student organizers

1827
01:53:24,520 --> 01:53:28,840
Speaker 2: seem much more open minded and optimistic about accomplishing things

1828
01:53:28,960 --> 01:53:32,360
Speaker 2: and trying new things. And this is definitely a different

1829
01:53:32,479 --> 01:53:35,479
Speaker 2: kind of occupation Portland has seen. I noticed some of

1830
01:53:35,560 --> 01:53:37,360
Speaker 2: that on the first night earlier in their courting. I

1831
01:53:37,439 --> 01:53:40,360
Speaker 2: made that comment about how I noticed that people were

1832
01:53:40,400 --> 01:53:43,880
Speaker 2: out kind of taking petitions and whatnot for different bills,

1833
01:53:44,400 --> 01:53:46,120
Speaker 2: taking advantage of the fact that there was a crowd

1834
01:53:46,160 --> 01:53:47,880
Speaker 2: who had gathered for the protest, and that in the

1835
01:53:48,000 --> 01:53:51,720
Speaker 2: past I had seen folks like that have issue with

1836
01:53:52,160 --> 01:53:54,400
Speaker 2: members of the crowd, and I didn't really notice that

1837
01:53:54,520 --> 01:53:57,120
Speaker 2: this time. And I guess maybe that comes down to

1838
01:53:57,600 --> 01:53:59,720
Speaker 2: some of what some of these older activists have told me,

1839
01:53:59,720 --> 01:54:02,400
Speaker 2: which is that a lot of the student organizers here

1840
01:54:02,520 --> 01:54:03,120
Speaker 2: are kind.

1841
01:54:02,960 --> 01:54:06,240
Speaker 11: Of less set in some of their ways.

1842
01:54:06,600 --> 01:54:06,800
Speaker 12: You know.

1843
01:54:07,320 --> 01:54:10,200
Speaker 2: We we'll see as this all continues to develop. There's

1844
01:54:10,200 --> 01:54:11,760
Speaker 2: a very good chance that by the time you hear

1845
01:54:11,800 --> 01:54:16,200
Speaker 2: this episode by Thursday morning, the police will have raided.

1846
01:54:16,520 --> 01:54:18,960
Speaker 2: That's definitely been happening all around the country. You know,

1847
01:54:19,200 --> 01:54:22,280
Speaker 2: as we have researched and recorded these episodes, there have

1848
01:54:22,320 --> 01:54:27,240
Speaker 2: been police crackdowns at Columbia University, at UC San Diego,

1849
01:54:27,360 --> 01:54:30,719
Speaker 2: at UCLA. We've seen, you know, a lot of pretty

1850
01:54:30,760 --> 01:54:34,760
Speaker 2: hideous things on the news in regards to these student occupations.

1851
01:54:34,800 --> 01:54:37,640
Speaker 2: And there's a very good chance that Portland will have

1852
01:54:37,760 --> 01:54:40,840
Speaker 2: joined that parade of ugly videos by the time this

1853
01:54:41,000 --> 01:54:43,760
Speaker 2: comes up. But as I record this, there's a barbecue

1854
01:54:43,840 --> 01:54:46,440
Speaker 2: going on, and I hope that will be the case

1855
01:54:46,560 --> 01:54:47,320
Speaker 2: tomorrow as well.

1856
01:54:48,080 --> 01:55:02,640
Speaker 15: Bye, this is it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis,

1857
01:55:03,160 --> 01:55:06,120
Speaker 15: And once again, it does continue to be happening here

1858
01:55:06,400 --> 01:55:09,000
Speaker 15: as a massive wave of police repression is levied against

1859
01:55:09,040 --> 01:55:13,560
Speaker 15: students protesting the ongoing Palestinian genocide. Since it's been so

1860
01:55:13,880 --> 01:55:16,680
Speaker 15: busy and hectic, I thought to end this week on

1861
01:55:16,800 --> 01:55:19,760
Speaker 15: a bit of a lighter note. Last week I did

1862
01:55:19,800 --> 01:55:23,040
Speaker 15: an episode on a new movie titled The People's Joker,

1863
01:55:23,560 --> 01:55:26,760
Speaker 15: an unauthorized Batman parody through the lens of a surprisingly

1864
01:55:26,840 --> 01:55:30,800
Speaker 15: genuine queer coming of age story by transgender filmmaker Vera Drew.

1865
01:55:31,400 --> 01:55:33,400
Speaker 15: If you want to hear me geek out about that

1866
01:55:33,600 --> 01:55:36,160
Speaker 15: movie in gay Batman Stuff, you can listen to that

1867
01:55:36,200 --> 01:55:39,080
Speaker 15: episode from last week. But this episode is going to

1868
01:55:39,160 --> 01:55:42,680
Speaker 15: delve more into the diy nature of this movie, some

1869
01:55:42,880 --> 01:55:45,760
Speaker 15: behind the scenes and how you go from an idea

1870
01:55:46,160 --> 01:55:48,680
Speaker 15: to a piece of wacky queer art playing in a

1871
01:55:48,840 --> 01:55:52,840
Speaker 15: movie theater or a TV show on your local cable

1872
01:55:52,920 --> 01:55:56,920
Speaker 15: access TV station. So I talked to two trans women

1873
01:55:56,920 --> 01:56:01,120
Speaker 15: who are currently making independent queer media, mentioned Vera Drew

1874
01:56:01,560 --> 01:56:04,440
Speaker 15: as well as Ella Yeerman, host of the late night

1875
01:56:04,520 --> 01:56:09,360
Speaker 15: comedy show Late Stage Live, transgender and a comedian, the

1876
01:56:09,440 --> 01:56:14,160
Speaker 15: two most persecuted classes. So I've been keeping up with

1877
01:56:14,480 --> 01:56:18,320
Speaker 15: Ella's indie transgender gen Z comedy project since it first

1878
01:56:18,360 --> 01:56:21,080
Speaker 15: got announced earlier this year. I have kind of a

1879
01:56:21,680 --> 01:56:25,839
Speaker 15: love hate relationship with the late night comedy news format,

1880
01:56:26,320 --> 01:56:29,200
Speaker 15: and I myself have thrown around the idea of playing

1881
01:56:29,280 --> 01:56:32,520
Speaker 15: with that format. So when I first heard about Ella's

1882
01:56:32,560 --> 01:56:36,360
Speaker 15: new show, Late Stage Live, my first thought was damn it,

1883
01:56:36,480 --> 01:56:39,080
Speaker 15: That's such a good title for a show, and now

1884
01:56:39,160 --> 01:56:42,400
Speaker 15: I can't use it. Just this immense sense of jealousy

1885
01:56:42,600 --> 01:56:45,280
Speaker 15: washed over me, and I've had to watch everything she's

1886
01:56:45,360 --> 01:56:46,200
Speaker 15: put out since then.

1887
01:56:47,120 --> 01:56:47,240
Speaker 12: Hi.

1888
01:56:47,440 --> 01:56:51,480
Speaker 8: I'm Ella Yeerman. My pronouns are she Her. I am

1889
01:56:51,560 --> 01:56:56,240
Speaker 8: a comedian, journalist, writer living in Brooklyn. I host Late

1890
01:56:56,320 --> 01:56:59,840
Speaker 8: Stage Live, which is a queer gen Z public access

1891
01:57:00,200 --> 01:57:03,840
Speaker 8: night show on Brooklyn Public Access and YouTube. And I

1892
01:57:03,920 --> 01:57:07,440
Speaker 8: also host T for T Comedy, which is Brooklyn's premiere

1893
01:57:07,640 --> 01:57:10,480
Speaker 8: all trans stand up comedy show. We film in a

1894
01:57:10,760 --> 01:57:14,720
Speaker 8: Brooklyn Public Access studio called brick Bric in front of

1895
01:57:14,760 --> 01:57:20,080
Speaker 8: a live studio audience. And the vaguest pitch I give

1896
01:57:20,200 --> 01:57:21,720
Speaker 8: to people who have no idea what the show is

1897
01:57:21,840 --> 01:57:23,680
Speaker 8: is that it's what if The Daily Show was hosted

1898
01:57:23,720 --> 01:57:26,440
Speaker 8: by a transgender woman. And we draw a lot of

1899
01:57:26,480 --> 01:57:28,640
Speaker 8: comparisons to the Daily Show by virtue of sort of

1900
01:57:29,040 --> 01:57:32,800
Speaker 8: similar formats, But myself and my writers are really interested

1901
01:57:32,880 --> 01:57:36,080
Speaker 8: in sort of, for lack of a better term, queering

1902
01:57:36,240 --> 01:57:39,960
Speaker 8: the late night format and sort of exploring what late

1903
01:57:40,080 --> 01:57:44,760
Speaker 8: night can do for a younger, more radical political audience.

1904
01:57:45,320 --> 01:57:48,600
Speaker 8: The Daily Show was like a really big radicalizing force

1905
01:57:48,680 --> 01:57:51,320
Speaker 8: I think for a certain generation people really John Stewart

1906
01:57:51,400 --> 01:57:54,600
Speaker 8: took that show and turned it into a really powerful

1907
01:57:54,680 --> 01:57:57,520
Speaker 8: tool for getting people engaged and aware of things that

1908
01:57:57,600 --> 01:58:00,240
Speaker 8: they might not have otherwise been aware of. But the

1909
01:58:00,280 --> 01:58:03,440
Speaker 8: culture has really shifted in terms of politics, in terms

1910
01:58:03,440 --> 01:58:06,560
Speaker 8: of media consumption since John started the Daily Show in

1911
01:58:06,800 --> 01:58:10,440
Speaker 8: the nineties. We have shows like Last Week Tonight with

1912
01:58:10,520 --> 01:58:14,800
Speaker 8: John Oliver, we have shows like My Coworkers and Bosses

1913
01:58:14,880 --> 01:58:17,440
Speaker 8: at Some More News and when we have like all

1914
01:58:17,520 --> 01:58:21,200
Speaker 8: of the alternative media sphere, ranging from like Tucker Carlson

1915
01:58:21,240 --> 01:58:24,160
Speaker 8: and Alex Jones to the Young Turks to everybody and

1916
01:58:24,240 --> 01:58:25,320
Speaker 8: their mom on YouTube.

1917
01:58:25,960 --> 01:58:30,280
Speaker 15: Now, kids these days don't really watch the news. I

1918
01:58:30,360 --> 01:58:34,120
Speaker 15: don't know anyone my age who's tuning into MSNBC. A

1919
01:58:34,240 --> 01:58:37,920
Speaker 15: twenty twenty two statistica survey of gen Z reported sixty

1920
01:58:38,000 --> 01:58:42,320
Speaker 15: percent of respondents never go to local or national papers

1921
01:58:42,760 --> 01:58:46,280
Speaker 15: for news, and only a respect of five percent checked

1922
01:58:46,320 --> 01:58:49,520
Speaker 15: their local or national papers for news daily, weekly, or

1923
01:58:49,680 --> 01:58:53,520
Speaker 15: once a month. But fifty percent of gen Z check

1924
01:58:53,600 --> 01:58:57,400
Speaker 15: social media daily for news, with seventy five percent reporting

1925
01:58:57,480 --> 01:59:01,800
Speaker 15: they check at least once a week. TikTok reigns supreme

1926
01:59:01,960 --> 01:59:05,600
Speaker 15: for information dissemination. Over one third of adults under the

1927
01:59:05,640 --> 01:59:09,040
Speaker 15: age of thirty regularly scroll the app for news, often

1928
01:59:09,120 --> 01:59:12,000
Speaker 15: treating it like a search engine, with the rest of

1929
01:59:12,040 --> 01:59:14,880
Speaker 15: the youths and young adults going to YouTube as well

1930
01:59:14,920 --> 01:59:18,720
Speaker 15: as other social media apps to fill in the information gaps,

1931
01:59:19,160 --> 01:59:20,920
Speaker 15: as well as podcasts such as this.

1932
01:59:21,640 --> 01:59:23,560
Speaker 16: My writers and I especially read Pope.

1933
01:59:23,640 --> 01:59:25,640
Speaker 8: My head writer and I talk a lot about just

1934
01:59:25,760 --> 01:59:29,040
Speaker 8: like where our generation is getting its information from and

1935
01:59:29,200 --> 01:59:33,800
Speaker 8: where it's consuming media, and how ideas and political ideas

1936
01:59:33,800 --> 01:59:37,120
Speaker 8: are being disseminated, especially in the age of short form

1937
01:59:37,240 --> 01:59:42,200
Speaker 8: content with TikTok and the democratization of information. We did

1938
01:59:42,240 --> 01:59:45,640
Speaker 8: a whole episode about sort of misinformation and the democratization

1939
01:59:45,720 --> 01:59:48,800
Speaker 8: of information a few months ago, where there's like, obviously

1940
01:59:48,840 --> 01:59:52,240
Speaker 8: all of these benefits to the lack of centralization of

1941
01:59:52,400 --> 01:59:54,600
Speaker 8: media consumption. We're seeing a lot of that with the

1942
01:59:54,640 --> 01:59:57,200
Speaker 8: Palatine stuff right now. People don't have to rely on

1943
01:59:57,200 --> 01:59:58,800
Speaker 8: the New York Times, people don't have to rely on

1944
01:59:58,880 --> 02:00:03,440
Speaker 8: these big media insitutions with their obvious biases to get information.

1945
02:00:04,280 --> 02:00:07,200
Speaker 8: But it also sort of engenders this I think, this

1946
02:00:07,480 --> 02:00:12,000
Speaker 8: very specific attitude towards intellectually.

1947
02:00:11,520 --> 02:00:12,480
Speaker 16: Engaging with information.

1948
02:00:12,960 --> 02:00:16,720
Speaker 8: The platforms and the systems that we use really encourage

1949
02:00:17,160 --> 02:00:20,280
Speaker 8: very quick opinions and fast reactions and picking up your

1950
02:00:20,320 --> 02:00:24,879
Speaker 8: phone and talking immediately about something as quickly as possible,

1951
02:00:25,240 --> 02:00:29,000
Speaker 8: hot take political environments, and we were really interested in

1952
02:00:29,120 --> 02:00:31,720
Speaker 8: looking at a format that has historically been more about

1953
02:00:32,680 --> 02:00:35,440
Speaker 8: a team of people with multiple perspectives coming together to

1954
02:00:35,520 --> 02:00:39,840
Speaker 8: create one piece of analysis and taking longer to look

1955
02:00:39,840 --> 02:00:43,320
Speaker 8: at those pieces of analysis and being able to really

1956
02:00:43,560 --> 02:00:47,400
Speaker 8: dig into data, and then what putting that into a

1957
02:00:47,480 --> 02:00:50,640
Speaker 8: late night format means. We have a live audience, which

1958
02:00:50,680 --> 02:00:53,240
Speaker 8: a lot of stuff on YouTube doesn't have, and we

1959
02:00:53,680 --> 02:00:56,760
Speaker 8: have a lot of the trappings of like og late night.

1960
02:00:56,960 --> 02:01:00,440
Speaker 8: We have like sketches, and we have correspondence, and we

1961
02:01:00,520 --> 02:01:02,560
Speaker 8: have a theme song, and a lot of that has

1962
02:01:02,600 --> 02:01:04,640
Speaker 8: sort of gone away as we've moved more into like

1963
02:01:04,680 --> 02:01:08,000
Speaker 8: a YouTube media sphere. So it's been exciting to both

1964
02:01:08,400 --> 02:01:10,720
Speaker 8: bring that back for like esthetic and nostalgia's sake, and

1965
02:01:10,760 --> 02:01:13,800
Speaker 8: then also to sort of see what and I think

1966
02:01:13,880 --> 02:01:16,320
Speaker 8: the show's in early stages, so I am excited to

1967
02:01:16,600 --> 02:01:19,040
Speaker 8: keep playing with this but finding out like what exactly

1968
02:01:19,560 --> 02:01:23,000
Speaker 8: the package does for the content. We talk a lot

1969
02:01:23,000 --> 02:01:26,800
Speaker 8: about like form follows function and vice versa. But I

1970
02:01:26,920 --> 02:01:30,120
Speaker 8: think there's like intentionality behind presenting it as a late

1971
02:01:30,200 --> 02:01:32,400
Speaker 8: night show. It's not just like for aesthetic value.

1972
02:01:33,040 --> 02:01:37,760
Speaker 15: Speaking of late night televised comedy, The People's Joker follows

1973
02:01:37,840 --> 02:01:41,760
Speaker 15: an aspiring comedian who goes by Joker the Harlequin as

1974
02:01:41,800 --> 02:01:44,640
Speaker 15: she attempts to host a Lauren Michael's TV show, legally

1975
02:01:44,680 --> 02:01:48,080
Speaker 15: distinct from snl Oh, and on her way, she transits

1976
02:01:48,080 --> 02:01:51,320
Speaker 15: her gender and fights Batman. The project started a few

1977
02:01:51,360 --> 02:01:54,400
Speaker 15: years ago because a friend of filmmaker Vera Drew jokingly

1978
02:01:54,480 --> 02:01:57,320
Speaker 15: commissioned her for twelve dollars to make a re edit

1979
02:01:57,480 --> 02:02:01,080
Speaker 15: of Todd Phillips's Joker movie. Phillips had been in the

1980
02:02:01,120 --> 02:02:05,440
Speaker 15: news cycle complaining that quote unquote woke culture was making

1981
02:02:05,480 --> 02:02:08,720
Speaker 15: it too hard to make comedy, which is interesting coming

1982
02:02:08,800 --> 02:02:11,240
Speaker 15: from a guy who's continually made some of the most

1983
02:02:11,280 --> 02:02:14,440
Speaker 15: successful comedies in the past twenty years. But I digress.

1984
02:02:15,240 --> 02:02:19,120
Speaker 15: Here's Vera Drew talking about how The People's Joker ballooned

1985
02:02:19,200 --> 02:02:22,040
Speaker 15: from an ironic re edit of the in Cell Joker

1986
02:02:22,120 --> 02:02:24,839
Speaker 15: movie into a whole new piece of queer cinema.

1987
02:02:25,320 --> 02:02:28,520
Speaker 9: Yeah, I started doing it like in earnest I started

1988
02:02:28,560 --> 02:02:33,600
Speaker 9: like actually re editing the movie, and I had worked

1989
02:02:33,640 --> 02:02:37,040
Speaker 9: at Absolutely Productions for years as an editor and had

1990
02:02:37,120 --> 02:02:39,720
Speaker 9: kind of come up as an alternative comedy editor, so

1991
02:02:40,800 --> 02:02:42,600
Speaker 9: you know, at that point it was probably just going

1992
02:02:42,680 --> 02:02:45,440
Speaker 9: to be like a lot of art sound effects and

1993
02:02:45,480 --> 02:02:51,320
Speaker 9: woosh noises and slips and slide whistles. But as I

1994
02:02:51,400 --> 02:02:53,880
Speaker 9: was working on it and kind of just making this

1995
02:02:54,040 --> 02:02:58,080
Speaker 9: like big piece of like bound footage video art, like

1996
02:02:58,160 --> 02:03:00,320
Speaker 9: a narrative kind of just like fell into play and

1997
02:03:02,280 --> 02:03:03,960
Speaker 9: it kind of just came in an instant and I

1998
02:03:04,120 --> 02:03:07,240
Speaker 9: was just like, oh, Okay, I think I actually want

1999
02:03:07,280 --> 02:03:10,200
Speaker 9: to make like a coming of age film, but I

2000
02:03:10,240 --> 02:03:13,440
Speaker 9: want to make like a parody of The Joker, like

2001
02:03:13,600 --> 02:03:17,200
Speaker 9: in that process and kind of just like tell like

2002
02:03:17,320 --> 02:03:22,080
Speaker 9: a really earnest and super personal autobiographical story about my

2003
02:03:22,240 --> 02:03:25,200
Speaker 9: life and growing up in the Midwest and coming out

2004
02:03:26,040 --> 02:03:29,280
Speaker 9: as trans and comedy and you know, my relationship with

2005
02:03:29,400 --> 02:03:32,040
Speaker 9: my mom and toxic relationship I was in and stuff,

2006
02:03:32,360 --> 02:03:38,160
Speaker 9: but kind of process and mythologize all of that through

2007
02:03:38,240 --> 02:03:43,080
Speaker 9: Batman characters. So that's kind of the origin of the movie.

2008
02:03:43,640 --> 02:03:44,080
Speaker 4: I guess.

2009
02:03:45,480 --> 02:03:48,200
Speaker 9: I had also kind of been kicking around an idea

2010
02:03:48,400 --> 02:03:51,680
Speaker 9: for like a body horror, like a trans Body horror

2011
02:03:51,760 --> 02:03:57,200
Speaker 9: movie before that that was basically like about a drag

2012
02:03:57,320 --> 02:04:01,080
Speaker 9: queen who was physically addicted to irony and like couldn't

2013
02:04:01,400 --> 02:04:03,800
Speaker 9: like survive without it. But it was also like destroying

2014
02:04:03,840 --> 02:04:07,600
Speaker 9: her from the inside out, and the two ideas kind

2015
02:04:07,600 --> 02:04:11,160
Speaker 9: of like merged together into this sort of I guess,

2016
02:04:12,000 --> 02:04:15,160
Speaker 9: like ver Drew, I watched a lot of Batman growing up,

2017
02:04:15,920 --> 02:04:19,400
Speaker 9: but from a weirdly young age, I was also always

2018
02:04:19,600 --> 02:04:24,120
Speaker 9: weirdly fascinated by late night TV. My parents never watched

2019
02:04:24,200 --> 02:04:26,800
Speaker 9: the news, but they watched late night. They got their

2020
02:04:26,880 --> 02:04:29,200
Speaker 9: news from Stephen Colbert. They got their news from, at

2021
02:04:29,240 --> 02:04:31,680
Speaker 9: least at a certain point, Jimmy Fallon, although that fell

2022
02:04:31,720 --> 02:04:36,040
Speaker 9: off quite quickly. But I've just always been incredibly fascinated

2023
02:04:36,120 --> 02:04:39,440
Speaker 9: by the whole late night format as a cultural source

2024
02:04:39,520 --> 02:04:43,400
Speaker 9: for news. At a certain point, around twenty seventeen, YouTube

2025
02:04:43,440 --> 02:04:46,640
Speaker 9: started pushing late night clips into everyone's feeds, and everyone

2026
02:04:46,760 --> 02:04:50,160
Speaker 9: just got so inundated with this style of political comedy.

2027
02:04:50,720 --> 02:04:53,240
Speaker 16: I also grew up on The Daily Show and Colbert.

2028
02:04:53,440 --> 02:04:56,680
Speaker 8: My parents are both journalists, so I probably am a

2029
02:04:56,680 --> 02:04:59,000
Speaker 8: little biased towards being someone who did read the paper

2030
02:04:59,040 --> 02:05:02,840
Speaker 8: growing up, who did like watch CNN growing up, but

2031
02:05:03,000 --> 02:05:07,280
Speaker 8: I recognized there's this huge chunk of America who gets

2032
02:05:07,320 --> 02:05:10,680
Speaker 8: their news from yeah, Colbert's monologue, from Letterman's monologue, from

2033
02:05:11,840 --> 02:05:14,760
Speaker 8: the Colbert Report, which is such a crazy.

2034
02:05:14,640 --> 02:05:15,600
Speaker 10: Very very scary.

2035
02:05:17,160 --> 02:05:20,000
Speaker 15: I had so many like conservative family members who did

2036
02:05:20,080 --> 02:05:24,080
Speaker 15: not realize the Colbert Rapport was satire, took it as

2037
02:05:24,120 --> 02:05:25,360
Speaker 15: a legitimate news source.

2038
02:05:26,360 --> 02:05:28,480
Speaker 8: Well, I mean when Trevor Noah took over The Daily Show,

2039
02:05:28,560 --> 02:05:31,160
Speaker 8: they tried to do like their version of the Colbert

2040
02:05:31,200 --> 02:05:34,440
Speaker 8: Report with Jordan Klepper's The Opposition, And I think there

2041
02:05:34,520 --> 02:05:36,360
Speaker 8: are a number of reasons that didn't work out, but

2042
02:05:36,480 --> 02:05:39,480
Speaker 8: one of them being that the like the Colbert Rapport

2043
02:05:39,600 --> 02:05:43,440
Speaker 8: was partying the other Fox News guy. Yeah, I was

2044
02:05:43,480 --> 02:05:47,080
Speaker 8: parting that whole realm of people, and the Opposition was

2045
02:05:47,120 --> 02:05:51,240
Speaker 8: partying info Wars, which is almost an unparitable thing. So

2046
02:05:51,400 --> 02:05:55,320
Speaker 8: like the like the right wing media ecosystem has shifted

2047
02:05:55,400 --> 02:05:57,240
Speaker 8: so far that that you can't really get a Colbert

2048
02:05:57,280 --> 02:06:00,200
Speaker 8: Report now, it just doesn't work. But yeah, like there's

2049
02:06:00,200 --> 02:06:02,160
Speaker 8: so many people who get their information directly from that.

2050
02:06:02,560 --> 02:06:05,960
Speaker 8: And I think a lot about like the creator responsibility,

2051
02:06:06,160 --> 02:06:07,480
Speaker 8: like which is a word that gets start or a

2052
02:06:07,480 --> 02:06:10,680
Speaker 8: lot around in social media spaces. But it's interesting to

2053
02:06:10,800 --> 02:06:15,320
Speaker 8: think that Colbert now and Stuart and even like Seth

2054
02:06:15,400 --> 02:06:18,839
Speaker 8: Meyers have this responsibility as like informants to their audience,

2055
02:06:19,320 --> 02:06:21,360
Speaker 8: in some sorts of the sole source of news for

2056
02:06:21,440 --> 02:06:23,840
Speaker 8: those people. When we were writing our misinformation piece, we

2057
02:06:23,880 --> 02:06:25,440
Speaker 8: did talk about how in twenty fifteen, there was a

2058
02:06:25,480 --> 02:06:28,080
Speaker 8: poll that came out that said that like the majority

2059
02:06:28,080 --> 02:06:30,360
Speaker 8: of liberals, like the highest percentage of rules got their

2060
02:06:30,400 --> 02:06:32,880
Speaker 8: news from The Daily Show with John Stewart. And I

2061
02:06:32,920 --> 02:06:35,160
Speaker 8: think a lot about the excuse John used to give

2062
02:06:35,240 --> 02:06:38,560
Speaker 8: to conservatives at the time who would criticize him for

2063
02:06:38,960 --> 02:06:41,840
Speaker 8: not doing his due diligence on any given subject. He

2064
02:06:41,880 --> 02:06:44,440
Speaker 8: would often say, well, we're a comedy show. The show

2065
02:06:44,480 --> 02:06:47,840
Speaker 8: that comes on after us is puppets making prank phone calls.

2066
02:06:47,920 --> 02:06:51,640
Speaker 8: And he would sort of like deflect that responsibility by saying,

2067
02:06:51,680 --> 02:06:54,120
Speaker 8: I'm an entertainer first. And I think that one of

2068
02:06:54,160 --> 02:06:57,120
Speaker 8: the big things that has changed in the last twenty

2069
02:06:57,200 --> 02:06:59,920
Speaker 8: years or however long, is that the line between enter

2070
02:07:00,000 --> 02:07:03,640
Speaker 8: retainer and journalist has totally blurred. With like the rise

2071
02:07:03,720 --> 02:07:07,200
Speaker 8: of like video essays on YouTube, and just like again

2072
02:07:07,400 --> 02:07:12,000
Speaker 8: like the democratization of information and content creation, everyone is

2073
02:07:12,080 --> 02:07:14,160
Speaker 8: sort of an entertainer. Everyone is sort of a journalist.

2074
02:07:14,600 --> 02:07:17,800
Speaker 8: There is like a responsibility that comes with having a platform,

2075
02:07:18,520 --> 02:07:21,720
Speaker 8: and so obviously, like our show, takes a great deal

2076
02:07:21,760 --> 02:07:23,640
Speaker 8: of care to make sure that the information we're presenting

2077
02:07:23,760 --> 02:07:26,840
Speaker 8: is it's accurate and correct, and that the analysis we're

2078
02:07:26,840 --> 02:07:29,560
Speaker 8: doing is as empathetic and thoughtful as we can.

2079
02:07:30,320 --> 02:07:32,800
Speaker 15: I do think there is real value in going after

2080
02:07:32,920 --> 02:07:37,000
Speaker 15: late night as a specific culturally impactful mode that isn't

2081
02:07:37,160 --> 02:07:39,920
Speaker 15: just comedy, isn'to just to the news, and in its

2082
02:07:40,000 --> 02:07:42,080
Speaker 15: quest to be a little bit of both, it becomes

2083
02:07:42,200 --> 02:07:45,600
Speaker 15: its own thing. I've always been interested to see what

2084
02:07:45,720 --> 02:07:48,440
Speaker 15: a late night show with my politics would look like,

2085
02:07:49,000 --> 02:07:50,400
Speaker 15: and I think to some degree, you can look at

2086
02:07:50,480 --> 02:07:52,920
Speaker 15: John Stewart in the two thousands, and I've been watching

2087
02:07:53,240 --> 02:07:56,440
Speaker 15: Stuart's new stuff on The Daily Show every Monday, mostly

2088
02:07:56,600 --> 02:07:58,720
Speaker 15: just to see how he's going to handle this landscape,

2089
02:07:58,760 --> 02:08:02,320
Speaker 15: which is very different from one he left in twenty fifteen. Nowadays,

2090
02:08:02,320 --> 02:08:04,640
Speaker 15: I think you can look to John Oliver as being

2091
02:08:04,880 --> 02:08:09,680
Speaker 15: probably slightly more radical, but even still there's a decent gap.

2092
02:08:10,320 --> 02:08:13,120
Speaker 15: Certainly some YouTube shows try to fill in that gap,

2093
02:08:13,560 --> 02:08:16,440
Speaker 15: but I've really enjoyed watching the Late Stage team apply

2094
02:08:16,680 --> 02:08:20,280
Speaker 15: classic late night stylings to a more radical queer form

2095
02:08:20,320 --> 02:08:25,080
Speaker 15: of politics, including like Ella mentioned correspondence segments as well

2096
02:08:25,120 --> 02:08:28,960
Speaker 15: as actual reporting. Late Stage Live did a recent piece

2097
02:08:29,080 --> 02:08:32,040
Speaker 15: on the effects of Libs of TikTok. It was a

2098
02:08:32,120 --> 02:08:35,080
Speaker 15: really good look at something that I oddly hadn't seen

2099
02:08:35,200 --> 02:08:39,520
Speaker 15: anyone else really interrogate before, actually looking at the people

2100
02:08:39,640 --> 02:08:42,840
Speaker 15: that Libs of TikTok has targeted and how that has

2101
02:08:43,000 --> 02:08:44,480
Speaker 15: literally affected their lives.

2102
02:08:45,120 --> 02:08:47,680
Speaker 8: Obviously, we are still like growing and trying new things.

2103
02:08:47,760 --> 02:08:49,840
Speaker 8: I was really proud of the Libs of TikTok piece.

2104
02:08:49,880 --> 02:08:52,320
Speaker 8: It was the first time we'd done like firsthand reporting

2105
02:08:52,440 --> 02:08:54,000
Speaker 8: on the show, and it's stuff like the thing I

2106
02:08:54,040 --> 02:08:56,320
Speaker 8: want to keep exploring. One of my favorite parts of

2107
02:08:56,400 --> 02:08:59,920
Speaker 8: the Daily Show is the more serious, like field pieces

2108
02:09:00,080 --> 02:09:02,560
Speaker 8: they end up doing that obviously also have comedic games

2109
02:09:02,640 --> 02:09:05,840
Speaker 8: applied to them, but also are like real journalism that

2110
02:09:06,040 --> 02:09:10,160
Speaker 8: maybe mainstream news institutions don't cover, and that's really exciting

2111
02:09:10,200 --> 02:09:13,240
Speaker 8: and obviously coming from like a specifically queer perspective. There's

2112
02:09:13,280 --> 02:09:16,920
Speaker 8: not a ton of specifically queer news. There's a few magazines,

2113
02:09:17,000 --> 02:09:18,360
Speaker 8: but there's nothing huge.

2114
02:09:19,360 --> 02:09:32,800
Speaker 15: It could happen here will return after these messages we

2115
02:09:32,960 --> 02:09:36,520
Speaker 15: now returned to it could happen here. Something I noticed

2116
02:09:36,560 --> 02:09:39,280
Speaker 15: about both Late Stage Lives and The People's Joker is

2117
02:09:39,320 --> 02:09:42,720
Speaker 15: that they're not just made by queer people, but the

2118
02:09:42,920 --> 02:09:47,440
Speaker 15: work itself feels queer. I think part of the reason

2119
02:09:47,480 --> 02:09:51,760
Speaker 15: why is that both carry this spirit of patchwork and collaboration,

2120
02:09:52,280 --> 02:09:56,200
Speaker 15: proudly featuring a sense of punkish outside noess that's uninterested

2121
02:09:56,280 --> 02:10:00,240
Speaker 15: in being tamed for a sis straight audience. The end

2122
02:10:00,280 --> 02:10:03,320
Speaker 15: result is one holy reflective of the community that has

2123
02:10:03,360 --> 02:10:07,200
Speaker 15: fostered the arts creation. To extrapolate on this, let's return

2124
02:10:07,280 --> 02:10:09,840
Speaker 15: to my interview with Vera Drew. I know, for for

2125
02:10:09,960 --> 02:10:13,080
Speaker 15: a while you were getting people to send in to

2126
02:10:13,320 --> 02:10:15,960
Speaker 15: like send in stuff to get put in the film.

2127
02:10:16,280 --> 02:10:17,920
Speaker 15: There was kind of it was like a very collaborative

2128
02:10:18,480 --> 02:10:20,800
Speaker 15: start to this project, and I am I am interested

2129
02:10:20,960 --> 02:10:23,840
Speaker 15: in that aspect of like how this is like both

2130
02:10:23,960 --> 02:10:27,040
Speaker 15: like a collage multimedia piece, but also it's not like

2131
02:10:27,160 --> 02:10:29,680
Speaker 15: the work of like one singular artist. It's like a

2132
02:10:29,840 --> 02:10:33,760
Speaker 15: very like queer community made thing. And it definitely feels

2133
02:10:33,800 --> 02:10:35,880
Speaker 15: that way, especially with all of like all like the sets,

2134
02:10:35,920 --> 02:10:38,280
Speaker 15: all of like the art. It's so many different styles

2135
02:10:38,360 --> 02:10:41,920
Speaker 15: mashed together. Into like this beautiful mosaic, and I'm interested

2136
02:10:41,960 --> 02:10:44,400
Speaker 15: in like your decision to have it be that collaborative

2137
02:10:44,440 --> 02:10:45,840
Speaker 15: thing and how that kind of came together.

2138
02:10:46,560 --> 02:10:48,680
Speaker 9: Thank you for asking, because yeah, I don't I don't

2139
02:10:48,720 --> 02:10:51,240
Speaker 9: really get to talk about that that much. And it's

2140
02:10:51,360 --> 02:10:53,280
Speaker 9: it's definitely like a part of this that really, I

2141
02:10:53,400 --> 02:10:58,040
Speaker 9: think is why the movie just feels inherently queer. You know,

2142
02:10:58,160 --> 02:11:02,240
Speaker 9: we had just this incredible team of people working on

2143
02:11:02,400 --> 02:11:04,360
Speaker 9: it because you know, like I said, like I did

2144
02:11:04,480 --> 02:11:07,040
Speaker 9: cash in like every favor I had, you know, to

2145
02:11:07,160 --> 02:11:09,960
Speaker 9: cash in. But you know, the movie started as this

2146
02:11:10,200 --> 02:11:15,000
Speaker 9: like video remix thing, and then I think as we

2147
02:11:15,120 --> 02:11:18,120
Speaker 9: were writing the script and it became more narrative driven.

2148
02:11:18,240 --> 02:11:20,120
Speaker 9: It was just like we were always writing this script

2149
02:11:20,160 --> 02:11:23,880
Speaker 9: that was very impossible to film, uh you know, just

2150
02:11:23,960 --> 02:11:26,800
Speaker 9: a very like there's Batmobile and like yeah, you know,

2151
02:11:27,280 --> 02:11:29,400
Speaker 9: fuck are you gonna do that? But we weren't really

2152
02:11:29,520 --> 02:11:31,440
Speaker 9: thinking about that as much. We were just like, let's

2153
02:11:31,480 --> 02:11:33,440
Speaker 9: just write this movie, and let's just write it as

2154
02:11:33,520 --> 02:11:35,760
Speaker 9: like a comic book movie, like let's have the tropes

2155
02:11:35,800 --> 02:11:37,520
Speaker 9: of a comic book movie and a queer coming of

2156
02:11:37,560 --> 02:11:41,960
Speaker 9: age film and and just fully execute those and you know,

2157
02:11:42,200 --> 02:11:45,320
Speaker 9: I think the idea of it becoming sort of this

2158
02:11:45,520 --> 02:11:48,600
Speaker 9: mixed media piece was was very gradual. I think like

2159
02:11:48,680 --> 02:11:50,720
Speaker 9: it was one of the many things about this This

2160
02:11:50,880 --> 02:11:54,440
Speaker 9: movie was made very intuitively, like I never had a budget. Really,

2161
02:11:55,200 --> 02:11:57,160
Speaker 9: I never make a movie like this again. It was

2162
02:11:57,280 --> 02:11:59,840
Speaker 9: it was very like kind of figuring it out as

2163
02:11:59,880 --> 02:12:02,280
Speaker 9: you go in a lot of ways, especially just on

2164
02:12:02,400 --> 02:12:04,080
Speaker 9: the like business side of things.

2165
02:12:04,400 --> 02:12:07,800
Speaker 15: Yeah, it has that kind of Inland Empire uncanniness a

2166
02:12:07,840 --> 02:12:08,960
Speaker 15: little bit totally.

2167
02:12:09,600 --> 02:12:14,680
Speaker 9: There's definitely that. It's definitely I'm working backwards this. This

2168
02:12:14,840 --> 02:12:17,960
Speaker 9: is my Inland Empire, and you know, like twenty years

2169
02:12:18,040 --> 02:12:22,720
Speaker 9: I'll have my eraser Head finally. Yes, yes, But it

2170
02:12:22,840 --> 02:12:25,880
Speaker 9: really just kind of followed that like sort of intuitive path,

2171
02:12:26,000 --> 02:12:29,120
Speaker 9: and I kind of announced what I was doing and

2172
02:12:29,600 --> 02:12:31,120
Speaker 9: I said, you know, my friend and I are making

2173
02:12:31,200 --> 02:12:36,720
Speaker 9: this Queer Joker parody, and anybody who wants to help us, like,

2174
02:12:37,200 --> 02:12:39,080
Speaker 9: you know, right here, and I kind of at that

2175
02:12:39,200 --> 02:12:41,080
Speaker 9: point it still was in this kind of like loose

2176
02:12:41,160 --> 02:12:43,800
Speaker 9: space of what is this really? But just so many

2177
02:12:43,960 --> 02:12:48,640
Speaker 9: artists came forward, and most of them artists who had

2178
02:12:48,720 --> 02:12:53,080
Speaker 9: never worked on film or TV before. So it was

2179
02:12:53,120 --> 02:12:55,280
Speaker 9: a lot of just like fine, artists and painters and

2180
02:12:55,400 --> 02:12:57,880
Speaker 9: illustrators and visual artists, and then like a lot of

2181
02:12:58,040 --> 02:13:01,440
Speaker 9: people too, just that I had seen for years on

2182
02:13:01,640 --> 02:13:05,560
Speaker 9: trans Twitter or like like featured in like very like

2183
02:13:05,760 --> 02:13:09,160
Speaker 9: fringe like zines and shit like that. So it's just like,

2184
02:13:09,520 --> 02:13:12,360
Speaker 9: holy shit, like we could really make this movie that

2185
02:13:12,480 --> 02:13:16,160
Speaker 9: looks like nothing you've ever seen before, and we can

2186
02:13:16,280 --> 02:13:18,400
Speaker 9: do it too in a way that like we're creating

2187
02:13:18,600 --> 02:13:21,720
Speaker 9: original art. You know, like all the art in it

2188
02:13:21,880 --> 02:13:24,600
Speaker 9: is original. I mean like we recreate a lot of

2189
02:13:24,720 --> 02:13:28,200
Speaker 9: sets and stuff from famous comic book movies, but like

2190
02:13:28,840 --> 02:13:32,480
Speaker 9: it was painstakingly created and every character had its own

2191
02:13:32,600 --> 02:13:36,839
Speaker 9: character design, you know, original character design. Like we couldn't

2192
02:13:37,000 --> 02:13:39,920
Speaker 9: just take mister mixuplick and put them in the movie,

2193
02:13:40,040 --> 02:13:42,000
Speaker 9: Like we had to go, okay, like how can we

2194
02:13:42,200 --> 02:13:44,240
Speaker 9: clear mister mix OLEPLI, Like, Okay, We'll make a mix

2195
02:13:44,320 --> 02:13:48,920
Speaker 9: mixy and they'll be like a weird like floating like

2196
02:13:49,080 --> 02:13:53,080
Speaker 9: Hanna barbera cartoon type. It's kind of more hr puff

2197
02:13:53,120 --> 02:13:56,120
Speaker 9: and stuff. Was the vibe we went for there, very

2198
02:13:56,240 --> 02:13:57,200
Speaker 9: sit in Marty Kroft.

2199
02:13:57,800 --> 02:14:00,720
Speaker 15: Even with a community of queer artists, how does one

2200
02:14:00,840 --> 02:14:04,400
Speaker 15: go from the idea stage of say, hey, let's make

2201
02:14:04,440 --> 02:14:07,280
Speaker 15: a more queer and radically oriented late night comedy show

2202
02:14:07,800 --> 02:14:11,720
Speaker 15: to having it actually be filmed and then broadcast. So

2203
02:14:11,960 --> 02:14:14,520
Speaker 15: I asked Ella what allowed her to get this project

2204
02:14:14,640 --> 02:14:17,160
Speaker 15: off the ground and what her process was like going

2205
02:14:17,200 --> 02:14:19,640
Speaker 15: from an idea to something that's now on air.

2206
02:14:20,160 --> 02:14:21,440
Speaker 8: So, like I said, I've been writing for some More

2207
02:14:21,520 --> 02:14:23,640
Speaker 8: News for three years and I love that job and

2208
02:14:23,720 --> 02:14:26,600
Speaker 8: I love my coworkers there, but they are doing one thing,

2209
02:14:26,720 --> 02:14:29,840
Speaker 8: and I, over the last year or so sort of

2210
02:14:29,880 --> 02:14:31,480
Speaker 8: started to realize that I also wanted to be doing

2211
02:14:31,520 --> 02:14:33,400
Speaker 8: this other thing. I wanted the live studio audience. I

2212
02:14:33,480 --> 02:14:36,440
Speaker 8: wanted a very queer focused show. I wanted an in

2213
02:14:36,560 --> 02:14:38,920
Speaker 8: person writer's room ultimately or like a local writer's room,

2214
02:14:38,920 --> 02:14:40,840
Speaker 8: because everyone else at some more News is LA based

2215
02:14:40,840 --> 02:14:42,560
Speaker 8: as far as I'm aware, and I'm the only East

2216
02:14:42,600 --> 02:14:45,760
Speaker 8: Coaster out here, and I just wanted the whole bunch

2217
02:14:45,760 --> 02:14:48,640
Speaker 8: of things that Somewere News wasn't doing. So I was like, Okay,

2218
02:14:48,760 --> 02:14:50,320
Speaker 8: I guess I have to do that myself because there's

2219
02:14:50,320 --> 02:14:52,400
Speaker 8: no one else doing it that will hire me. But

2220
02:14:52,520 --> 02:14:54,680
Speaker 8: I'm grateful that I had my experience with some More

2221
02:14:54,720 --> 02:14:56,680
Speaker 8: News and continue to have my experience with them. Because

2222
02:14:57,320 --> 02:15:00,120
Speaker 8: I structure our writer's room very similarly to them, and

2223
02:15:00,240 --> 02:15:02,839
Speaker 8: I took a lot of inspiration from their early stages

2224
02:15:03,000 --> 02:15:06,480
Speaker 8: in terms of like the creative side of things, and

2225
02:15:06,600 --> 02:15:09,720
Speaker 8: then in terms of like finding people and making it happen.

2226
02:15:11,040 --> 02:15:13,600
Speaker 8: Something I've learned my whole life as a creative is

2227
02:15:13,640 --> 02:15:15,120
Speaker 8: that you just sort of have to fucking do it.

2228
02:15:15,920 --> 02:15:17,600
Speaker 8: I've been like self producing work.

2229
02:15:17,480 --> 02:15:21,240
Speaker 16: Since I was eighteen. When I was eighteen, my community.

2230
02:15:20,840 --> 02:15:23,560
Speaker 8: Theater in my hometown had a big all hands meeting

2231
02:15:23,600 --> 02:15:25,080
Speaker 8: where they were like, Hey, we're out of money.

2232
02:15:25,120 --> 02:15:25,520
Speaker 7: What do we do?

2233
02:15:25,720 --> 02:15:27,520
Speaker 8: And I said, you should do a Shakespeare play because

2234
02:15:27,520 --> 02:15:28,880
Speaker 8: you don't have to pay for the royalties for that.

2235
02:15:29,400 --> 02:15:30,920
Speaker 8: And they were like, well, we don't have anyone who

2236
02:15:30,920 --> 02:15:32,840
Speaker 8: wants to direct a Shakespeare play. And I said, okay,

2237
02:15:32,960 --> 02:15:35,200
Speaker 8: then I'll do it. And they were like, okay, then

2238
02:15:35,240 --> 02:15:36,920
Speaker 8: you do it. And I sort of had to just

2239
02:15:37,480 --> 02:15:39,400
Speaker 8: do it. And I did it and it was messy

2240
02:15:39,480 --> 02:15:41,840
Speaker 8: and pretty amateurish, and then I did it again the

2241
02:15:41,840 --> 02:15:43,000
Speaker 8: next year, and I got better, and I did it

2242
02:15:43,040 --> 02:15:45,280
Speaker 8: again the next year. It got better after that, and

2243
02:15:45,320 --> 02:15:47,800
Speaker 8: then after I graduated college, I started doing stand up again.

2244
02:15:47,920 --> 02:15:49,680
Speaker 8: I just stand up a little bit pre transition and

2245
02:15:49,800 --> 02:15:52,120
Speaker 8: it was terrible, and so I stopped to become a

2246
02:15:52,200 --> 02:15:54,200
Speaker 8: girl and I started doing stand up again, and I

2247
02:15:54,240 --> 02:15:56,400
Speaker 8: realized there wasn't a ton of spaces in the stand

2248
02:15:56,480 --> 02:15:58,960
Speaker 8: up scene for trans people, and I said.

2249
02:16:00,160 --> 02:16:02,000
Speaker 10: Okay, so let's host a trans show.

2250
02:16:02,240 --> 02:16:04,440
Speaker 8: And I found a bar and I got in touch

2251
02:16:04,480 --> 02:16:06,960
Speaker 8: with the bar, and then I just started dming comics

2252
02:16:07,000 --> 02:16:08,480
Speaker 8: and I said, hey, I don't really know any of

2253
02:16:08,520 --> 02:16:10,720
Speaker 8: you because I'm not really integrated into this comedy scene,

2254
02:16:11,320 --> 02:16:14,280
Speaker 8: but please, and the show solely grew and I started

2255
02:16:14,320 --> 02:16:16,880
Speaker 8: to meet more people, and then by the time I

2256
02:16:17,080 --> 02:16:19,000
Speaker 8: had the idea to do late stage, I had been

2257
02:16:19,320 --> 02:16:20,800
Speaker 8: doing my show for about a year and a half

2258
02:16:21,000 --> 02:16:24,320
Speaker 8: and I was pretty integrated into the comedy scene, so

2259
02:16:24,480 --> 02:16:28,280
Speaker 8: I was never worried about finding writers in terms of quantity.

2260
02:16:28,760 --> 02:16:32,240
Speaker 8: I reached out to my headwriter, Read Pope last April

2261
02:16:33,400 --> 02:16:37,320
Speaker 8: after seeing a similarly live show by my friend Kay

2262
02:16:37,360 --> 02:16:39,800
Speaker 8: Loggins called Knight Live that she does every so often,

2263
02:16:40,080 --> 02:16:41,720
Speaker 8: and I helped her with the production day on that

2264
02:16:41,760 --> 02:16:44,280
Speaker 8: and it was a thirteen hour production day, and I

2265
02:16:44,440 --> 02:16:47,039
Speaker 8: just remember having so much fun realizing that you could

2266
02:16:47,680 --> 02:16:50,400
Speaker 8: find people in the artistic community like enough, people who

2267
02:16:50,440 --> 02:16:51,160
Speaker 8: were willing to do it.

2268
02:16:51,959 --> 02:16:52,280
Speaker 12: So Yeah.

2269
02:16:52,320 --> 02:16:54,160
Speaker 8: I reached out to Read in April and I said, hey,

2270
02:16:54,240 --> 02:16:57,400
Speaker 8: I have this idea, and they said, cool, here's a

2271
02:16:57,480 --> 02:17:00,320
Speaker 8: list of people I think would be fun to work with.

2272
02:17:00,480 --> 02:17:02,360
Speaker 8: And we reached out to a small handful of writers

2273
02:17:02,400 --> 02:17:03,520
Speaker 8: and some of them got back to us and some

2274
02:17:03,600 --> 02:17:05,760
Speaker 8: of them didn't, and we slowly found our team of

2275
02:17:05,760 --> 02:17:08,240
Speaker 8: people who were able to commit to at first monthly

2276
02:17:08,280 --> 02:17:09,440
Speaker 8: and now weekly writers meeting.

2277
02:17:10,080 --> 02:17:12,240
Speaker 15: After the writing team was assembled, they still needed to

2278
02:17:12,280 --> 02:17:14,960
Speaker 15: find a place to record the show. The director and

2279
02:17:15,120 --> 02:17:19,080
Speaker 15: executive producer Octavia helped find the public access station in

2280
02:17:19,120 --> 02:17:22,160
Speaker 15: Brooklyn that Late Stage now shoots at, which is open

2281
02:17:22,200 --> 02:17:22,760
Speaker 15: to the public.

2282
02:17:23,200 --> 02:17:25,200
Speaker 8: Do you have to take a five week course there

2283
02:17:25,200 --> 02:17:27,480
Speaker 8: where you get certified in all of the equipment and

2284
02:17:27,560 --> 02:17:29,880
Speaker 8: then you just get to sort of reserve their space

2285
02:17:30,040 --> 02:17:30,840
Speaker 8: and do whatever.

2286
02:17:30,680 --> 02:17:31,119
Speaker 16: You want there.

2287
02:17:31,920 --> 02:17:34,320
Speaker 8: And over the course of those five weeks, Read, Octavia

2288
02:17:34,320 --> 02:17:37,280
Speaker 8: and I would take this like bi weekly class and

2289
02:17:37,320 --> 02:17:39,520
Speaker 8: afterwards we've got and get food and we would just

2290
02:17:39,879 --> 02:17:41,600
Speaker 8: talk about what the show needed and where it was.

2291
02:17:41,959 --> 02:17:43,880
Speaker 8: Every time a roll popped up in discussion that we

2292
02:17:43,920 --> 02:17:45,920
Speaker 8: didn't have yet, Octavia or Read or I would say, oh,

2293
02:17:45,959 --> 02:17:47,280
Speaker 8: I know someone and we'd pick up the phone and

2294
02:17:47,320 --> 02:17:50,359
Speaker 8: call them immediately. And so it was a very organic

2295
02:17:50,520 --> 02:17:53,560
Speaker 8: growth in terms of production team at first. And that

2296
02:17:53,760 --> 02:17:55,920
Speaker 8: just comes from like working within your own community and

2297
02:17:56,000 --> 02:17:57,960
Speaker 8: like finding an artistic community. I don't think I could

2298
02:17:57,959 --> 02:18:00,760
Speaker 8: be doing this two years ago, Like I'm really grateful

2299
02:18:00,760 --> 02:18:02,560
Speaker 8: for having hosted a stand up show for many years

2300
02:18:02,640 --> 02:18:05,240
Speaker 8: first to integrate myself into that community and knowing a

2301
02:18:05,320 --> 02:18:08,119
Speaker 8: lot of like hardworking, multifaceted artists.

2302
02:18:09,040 --> 02:18:12,160
Speaker 15: Once again, the ability to make friends, both in your

2303
02:18:12,240 --> 02:18:15,560
Speaker 15: local community and even online remains one of the best

2304
02:18:15,640 --> 02:18:19,680
Speaker 15: ways to get shit done. The collaborative multi media collage

2305
02:18:19,800 --> 02:18:22,560
Speaker 15: aspect not only impuse a project with a sense of

2306
02:18:22,800 --> 02:18:26,880
Speaker 15: DIY queerness, it also makes tackling a project as gargantuan

2307
02:18:26,920 --> 02:18:29,320
Speaker 15: as The People's Joker a bit more feasible.

2308
02:18:29,920 --> 02:18:33,080
Speaker 9: We'd have these like artists with like you know, like

2309
02:18:33,200 --> 02:18:36,800
Speaker 9: Maddy Forrest makes beautiful puppets and just beautiful art, so

2310
02:18:36,840 --> 02:18:39,240
Speaker 9: it's like, okay, like obviously we're an ad Maddie asked

2311
02:18:39,280 --> 02:18:41,920
Speaker 9: Maddie to make the mixele Plick puppet, and like it'll

2312
02:18:41,959 --> 02:18:44,400
Speaker 9: be like a Sid Mardi Kroft puppet, and like one

2313
02:18:44,440 --> 02:18:47,600
Speaker 9: of the other artists that came through was Salem Hughes,

2314
02:18:47,800 --> 02:18:52,240
Speaker 9: who makes these like three D like low poly three

2315
02:18:52,360 --> 02:18:55,640
Speaker 9: D models, and at that point it was like, okay, well,

2316
02:18:55,680 --> 02:18:57,800
Speaker 9: that obviously has to be like our bat cave, like

2317
02:18:57,879 --> 02:19:00,080
Speaker 9: we'll make it look like a like a Doom like

2318
02:19:00,240 --> 02:19:03,520
Speaker 9: N sixty four video game or something, and the batmobile too.

2319
02:19:04,240 --> 02:19:06,320
Speaker 9: So it's just kind of like figure like breaking up

2320
02:19:06,640 --> 02:19:10,240
Speaker 9: everybody's role into these individual pieces and like kind of

2321
02:19:10,320 --> 02:19:15,040
Speaker 9: going by like both physical locations, like reserving one artist

2322
02:19:15,200 --> 02:19:18,560
Speaker 9: for each physical location that we'd see pop up and things,

2323
02:19:19,240 --> 02:19:21,920
Speaker 9: you know, like Paul McBride did all of the Joker

2324
02:19:22,240 --> 02:19:26,320
Speaker 9: apartment shots and we recreated Woking Phoenix's Joker apartment, but

2325
02:19:26,440 --> 02:19:28,560
Speaker 9: you know, change the color and the wallpaper and blah

2326
02:19:28,560 --> 02:19:31,960
Speaker 9: blah blah. And Paul again like another person who just

2327
02:19:32,640 --> 02:19:35,279
Speaker 9: like Paul just makes three D models just to like relax,

2328
02:19:35,480 --> 02:19:39,360
Speaker 9: I guess, like he just makes these beautiful interiors. And

2329
02:19:39,400 --> 02:19:41,240
Speaker 9: it was like, okay, cool, we'll make like a beautiful,

2330
02:19:41,360 --> 02:19:47,720
Speaker 9: like hyper realistic interior. I never really forced my aesthetic

2331
02:19:47,840 --> 02:19:50,360
Speaker 9: on anybody. I really just allowed people to just kind

2332
02:19:50,400 --> 02:19:54,080
Speaker 9: of like lean into their aesthetic and just do what

2333
02:19:54,240 --> 02:19:57,320
Speaker 9: they wanted and kind of like just run wild and

2334
02:19:57,440 --> 02:20:00,280
Speaker 9: be like okay, so you make low polyart, like we'll

2335
02:20:00,320 --> 02:20:03,680
Speaker 9: do just do that in this case. And our amusement

2336
02:20:03,720 --> 02:20:05,880
Speaker 9: park set was made by this artist at GRAT and

2337
02:20:06,120 --> 02:20:10,200
Speaker 9: he just makes beautiful DMT like psychedelic imagery. So it

2338
02:20:10,280 --> 02:20:13,880
Speaker 9: was like we got this you know, hyper crazy, like

2339
02:20:14,240 --> 02:20:17,240
Speaker 9: weird perspective amusement park from him, and we turned that

2340
02:20:17,440 --> 02:20:20,160
Speaker 9: into a three D model, you know, rather than going

2341
02:20:20,240 --> 02:20:21,760
Speaker 9: like how are we going to make this work? You know,

2342
02:20:21,959 --> 02:20:24,360
Speaker 9: like this is a this is a flat painting, you know,

2343
02:20:24,520 --> 02:20:26,840
Speaker 9: like it's a location we keep seeing in the movie,

2344
02:20:27,920 --> 02:20:29,200
Speaker 9: like how are we going to make it work? But

2345
02:20:29,280 --> 02:20:31,440
Speaker 9: it was just like just kind of saying yes and

2346
02:20:31,840 --> 02:20:35,280
Speaker 9: to everything and really allowing everybody to just play to

2347
02:20:35,360 --> 02:20:38,480
Speaker 9: their best strengths. And I knew that, like my voice

2348
02:20:38,520 --> 02:20:40,320
Speaker 9: and my vision were always going to be there, like

2349
02:20:40,400 --> 02:20:42,039
Speaker 9: my face was going to be on screen for most

2350
02:20:42,080 --> 02:20:44,880
Speaker 9: of the movie, and like it's my story, Like I

2351
02:20:45,000 --> 02:20:48,520
Speaker 9: was never really worried about losing myself or disappearing in

2352
02:20:48,600 --> 02:20:51,840
Speaker 9: the art at all, and instinctually I just kind of

2353
02:20:51,920 --> 02:20:56,160
Speaker 9: knew it would make the movie feel very clear. And

2354
02:20:57,080 --> 02:20:58,640
Speaker 9: that's really just what it was.

2355
02:20:58,760 --> 02:20:58,800
Speaker 13: Like.

2356
02:20:58,920 --> 02:21:02,560
Speaker 9: It was really just this big kind of DIY community

2357
02:21:02,760 --> 02:21:06,400
Speaker 9: art project, and it was a big task for me

2358
02:21:06,520 --> 02:21:09,760
Speaker 9: to kind of like find the unified aesthetic. But thankfully,

2359
02:21:09,879 --> 02:21:11,800
Speaker 9: you know, like I've done VFX, I had a lot

2360
02:21:11,840 --> 02:21:15,040
Speaker 9: of other VFX artists helping me work on the film,

2361
02:21:15,120 --> 02:21:17,400
Speaker 9: and we were able to kind of find a through

2362
02:21:17,480 --> 02:21:20,200
Speaker 9: line in the way like all filmmakers have to. You know,

2363
02:21:20,320 --> 02:21:22,320
Speaker 9: you just stick to a color scheme, you stick to

2364
02:21:22,400 --> 02:21:25,080
Speaker 9: a very certain type of pacing, and you know, and

2365
02:21:25,240 --> 02:21:28,440
Speaker 9: musically too, like I think we really like were able

2366
02:21:28,520 --> 02:21:30,680
Speaker 9: to like bridge a lot of the things together just

2367
02:21:30,760 --> 02:21:34,000
Speaker 9: by like having constant music playing. And you know, I

2368
02:21:34,040 --> 02:21:36,920
Speaker 9: think I was really influenced by Natural Born Killers and

2369
02:21:37,080 --> 02:21:39,720
Speaker 9: Pink Floyd's of the Wall and also Headwig in The

2370
02:21:39,760 --> 02:21:42,040
Speaker 9: Angry Inch. I think we're like kind of the Big Three,

2371
02:21:42,240 --> 02:21:44,320
Speaker 9: and also returned to Oz those are the Big four,

2372
02:21:45,000 --> 02:21:47,440
Speaker 9: and just to round it out to five, then Batman

2373
02:21:47,520 --> 02:21:51,520
Speaker 9: Forever of course. But I think like a movie's never

2374
02:21:51,720 --> 02:21:54,480
Speaker 9: really been made. I think plenty of movies are made

2375
02:21:54,560 --> 02:21:56,240
Speaker 9: like this all the time, like where these like little

2376
02:21:56,280 --> 02:21:59,640
Speaker 9: communities of people get together, but like this was like

2377
02:22:00,160 --> 02:22:04,600
Speaker 9: an intercontinental kind of community project, and it was beautiful,

2378
02:22:04,680 --> 02:22:06,400
Speaker 9: Like I'm so glad we did it, and it was

2379
02:22:06,600 --> 02:22:10,200
Speaker 9: it was an opportunity to really hopefully, like get a

2380
02:22:10,280 --> 02:22:14,560
Speaker 9: lot of artists visibility in spaces that they normally wouldn't

2381
02:22:14,640 --> 02:22:18,200
Speaker 9: be visible, and an opportunity too to like work with

2382
02:22:18,280 --> 02:22:20,640
Speaker 9: a lot of really talented people and allow them and

2383
02:22:20,720 --> 02:22:21,920
Speaker 9: make them feel valued.

2384
02:22:22,000 --> 02:22:22,160
Speaker 12: You know.

2385
02:22:22,280 --> 02:22:24,040
Speaker 9: I just worked on so many things where it's like

2386
02:22:24,480 --> 02:22:26,560
Speaker 9: you get art back from somebody and then you're like,

2387
02:22:27,160 --> 02:22:29,160
Speaker 9: we got to send this back or you're fired or

2388
02:22:29,240 --> 02:22:31,680
Speaker 9: you know whatever, and this is like I never wanted

2389
02:22:31,760 --> 02:22:33,320
Speaker 9: to be that. It was very much like this is

2390
02:22:33,400 --> 02:22:35,600
Speaker 9: kind of all of our movie in a way. And

2391
02:22:35,680 --> 02:22:37,600
Speaker 9: now that the movie's out there too, I really think

2392
02:22:37,640 --> 02:22:40,119
Speaker 9: of it. It's like it's just it's got its own life,

2393
02:22:40,280 --> 02:22:42,600
Speaker 9: Like it's kind of no longer mine, and it kind

2394
02:22:42,640 --> 02:22:45,040
Speaker 9: of never really was. It was always like ours. It

2395
02:22:45,160 --> 02:22:48,080
Speaker 9: was always mine and my friends and you know, all

2396
02:22:48,120 --> 02:22:50,200
Speaker 9: the people that worked on it with me. And I

2397
02:22:50,280 --> 02:22:53,600
Speaker 9: think that is just really cool, and thanks for giving

2398
02:22:53,600 --> 02:22:55,240
Speaker 9: me the opportunity to talk about it, because I think

2399
02:22:55,280 --> 02:22:57,640
Speaker 9: it's one of the things that kind of gets lost

2400
02:22:57,640 --> 02:22:59,879
Speaker 9: about this project a lot, just because of how personal

2401
02:23:00,200 --> 02:23:02,080
Speaker 9: is and because of like our legal stuff. But like

2402
02:23:02,879 --> 02:23:04,440
Speaker 9: I would have never been able to make this. If

2403
02:23:04,480 --> 02:23:06,960
Speaker 9: it wasn't for the team, we will return to, it

2404
02:23:07,040 --> 02:23:22,160
Speaker 9: could happen here. After these messages we now return to.

2405
02:23:22,320 --> 02:23:23,200
Speaker 9: It could happen here.

2406
02:23:24,520 --> 02:23:27,279
Speaker 15: What I find most inspiring about projects like The People's

2407
02:23:27,360 --> 02:23:30,480
Speaker 15: Joker and some of the other indie no budget transfilms

2408
02:23:30,720 --> 02:23:34,720
Speaker 15: by filmmakers like Alice Mayo, Mackay and Mia Moore, as

2409
02:23:34,760 --> 02:23:37,760
Speaker 15: well as projects like Late Stage Live, is that they

2410
02:23:37,800 --> 02:23:40,720
Speaker 15: demonstrate that we don't need to rely on big studios

2411
02:23:40,840 --> 02:23:43,000
Speaker 15: or big production companies to green light things in order

2412
02:23:43,080 --> 02:23:44,160
Speaker 15: to make our own stuff.

2413
02:23:44,680 --> 02:23:45,920
Speaker 10: You can just make it.

2414
02:23:46,320 --> 02:23:48,400
Speaker 15: Which is not to say that it's easy, but the

2415
02:23:48,440 --> 02:23:51,960
Speaker 15: biggest drive to getting something done is literally just getting

2416
02:23:52,000 --> 02:23:52,360
Speaker 15: it done.

2417
02:23:52,520 --> 02:23:53,200
Speaker 10: Is just doing it.

2418
02:23:53,840 --> 02:23:57,480
Speaker 15: And if people see you doing a cool thing, oddly enough,

2419
02:23:57,760 --> 02:23:59,280
Speaker 15: some of them will want to help you, which is

2420
02:23:59,360 --> 02:24:02,400
Speaker 15: kind of a bizarre, but it does end up being true.

2421
02:24:02,840 --> 02:24:07,640
Speaker 8: The core thing I've learned about producing work over the

2422
02:24:07,760 --> 02:24:11,879
Speaker 8: last many years is people are willing to do stuff

2423
02:24:12,040 --> 02:24:15,040
Speaker 8: if you do it first. If you prove to them

2424
02:24:15,080 --> 02:24:17,520
Speaker 8: that you're committed to something and have a cool idea,

2425
02:24:18,000 --> 02:24:20,879
Speaker 8: people will jump on board. Yeah, And I think that's

2426
02:24:20,920 --> 02:24:22,800
Speaker 8: been proven by how excited our audience has been for

2427
02:24:22,840 --> 02:24:25,920
Speaker 8: the show. How willing people have been to jump on,

2428
02:24:26,280 --> 02:24:29,480
Speaker 8: and our entire crew and writing stuff is volunteer. Right now,

2429
02:24:29,640 --> 02:24:31,240
Speaker 8: We're making a little bit of money on Patreon, but

2430
02:24:31,280 --> 02:24:34,840
Speaker 8: certainly not enough to pay the twenty plus person team

2431
02:24:34,920 --> 02:24:37,080
Speaker 8: that ends up working with us every month, although that

2432
02:24:37,200 --> 02:24:39,520
Speaker 8: is the goal down the line. But yeah, people are

2433
02:24:39,560 --> 02:24:41,560
Speaker 8: willing to do a cool thing and volunteer their time.

2434
02:24:41,720 --> 02:24:44,040
Speaker 8: Artists want to be making stuff, and so it's just

2435
02:24:44,120 --> 02:24:47,800
Speaker 8: about doing it and then just doing it again. When

2436
02:24:47,840 --> 02:24:49,880
Speaker 8: I first started hosting my stay up show, we did

2437
02:24:49,879 --> 02:24:51,480
Speaker 8: it the first time, and I spent months like thinking

2438
02:24:51,480 --> 02:24:54,480
Speaker 8: about it, and after the first month, I was like,

2439
02:24:54,560 --> 02:24:56,280
Speaker 8: oh my god, that was so hard. How am I

2440
02:24:56,280 --> 02:24:58,000
Speaker 8: going to find enough transcomics to you at a second time?

2441
02:24:58,000 --> 02:24:59,120
Speaker 8: How am I going to have the energy to do

2442
02:24:59,120 --> 02:25:01,199
Speaker 8: a second time? And my boyfriend at the time said,

2443
02:25:02,160 --> 02:25:03,400
Speaker 8: if you want it to be a monthly show, you

2444
02:25:03,480 --> 02:25:05,280
Speaker 8: just have to do it every month for a while,

2445
02:25:05,560 --> 02:25:08,280
Speaker 8: even if it sucks, and then eventually it will suck less.

2446
02:25:08,560 --> 02:25:11,600
Speaker 16: And he's right. He's still right, and I'm still doing

2447
02:25:11,680 --> 02:25:12,560
Speaker 16: that show two years later.

2448
02:25:12,879 --> 02:25:15,240
Speaker 8: And we did late stage the first time, and it

2449
02:25:15,360 --> 02:25:18,120
Speaker 8: was several months push to get the first script out

2450
02:25:18,160 --> 02:25:19,600
Speaker 8: and we got the first episode out and we were like,

2451
02:25:19,600 --> 02:25:22,120
Speaker 8: oh my god, Okay, let's do this again in one month,

2452
02:25:22,200 --> 02:25:24,000
Speaker 8: can we do it? And we did it a second

2453
02:25:24,040 --> 02:25:27,640
Speaker 8: time and it was also fun and good, and then

2454
02:25:27,720 --> 02:25:29,199
Speaker 8: you just like figure out how to make it easier

2455
02:25:29,400 --> 02:25:31,960
Speaker 8: each time. And I will not deny that it is

2456
02:25:32,400 --> 02:25:36,000
Speaker 8: hard work. We are all slowly killing ourselves to make

2457
02:25:36,040 --> 02:25:39,480
Speaker 8: this show. I work a forty hour food service day

2458
02:25:39,600 --> 02:25:42,320
Speaker 8: job that I came directly from to do this interview.

2459
02:25:43,040 --> 02:25:46,120
Speaker 8: Everyone else on my show is either working full time

2460
02:25:46,160 --> 02:25:48,800
Speaker 8: on top of the show, or unemployed and slowly losing

2461
02:25:48,879 --> 02:25:52,199
Speaker 8: money at various stages. People would like to fire queer people.

2462
02:25:52,320 --> 02:25:55,720
Speaker 8: So every few weeks someone comes into a writer's meeting

2463
02:25:55,800 --> 02:25:56,960
Speaker 8: is like, guys, I lost my job.

2464
02:25:57,080 --> 02:25:57,360
Speaker 9: Haha.

2465
02:25:58,320 --> 02:26:00,240
Speaker 8: So I will not deny that it's hard, and I

2466
02:26:00,480 --> 02:26:02,600
Speaker 8: don't want to. I don't ever want someone to think

2467
02:26:02,600 --> 02:26:04,480
Speaker 8: of me saying just do it. Is like it's easy

2468
02:26:04,560 --> 02:26:06,840
Speaker 8: because it's a lot of work, and all of my

2469
02:26:07,760 --> 02:26:10,320
Speaker 8: team is like incredibly talented and has years of experience

2470
02:26:10,640 --> 02:26:14,600
Speaker 8: doing things. Everyone in the comedy scene in Brooklyn talks

2471
02:26:14,600 --> 02:26:16,800
Speaker 8: about like wanting to get staffed on a late night show,

2472
02:26:17,360 --> 02:26:19,320
Speaker 8: which is awesome, And I would love to get staffed

2473
02:26:19,320 --> 02:26:21,400
Speaker 8: on a late age like that's the coveted job at

2474
02:26:21,440 --> 02:26:23,879
Speaker 8: the end of the line for the stand up community,

2475
02:26:24,600 --> 02:26:26,040
Speaker 8: but like, you don't have to wait for that. You

2476
02:26:26,160 --> 02:26:27,760
Speaker 8: can just make the work you're doing. And I've had

2477
02:26:27,800 --> 02:26:29,520
Speaker 8: conversations with my writers where they've all been like, this

2478
02:26:29,560 --> 02:26:31,280
Speaker 8: has been a really cool opportunity because at the very

2479
02:26:31,400 --> 02:26:34,039
Speaker 8: least I've sort of found out if I would actually

2480
02:26:34,080 --> 02:26:36,440
Speaker 8: want to write on a late night show. We talk

2481
02:26:36,480 --> 02:26:38,400
Speaker 8: about that as a coveted job, but maybe I don't

2482
02:26:38,400 --> 02:26:40,560
Speaker 8: want to do that. It's a very different skill than

2483
02:26:40,800 --> 02:26:42,440
Speaker 8: stand up and that's been a fun learning curve as

2484
02:26:42,480 --> 02:26:44,640
Speaker 8: well as hiring a bunch of stand ups. To write

2485
02:26:44,680 --> 02:26:47,720
Speaker 8: long form political analysis, you sort of have to herd

2486
02:26:47,840 --> 02:26:48,879
Speaker 8: cats to some degree.

2487
02:26:49,560 --> 02:26:53,039
Speaker 15: Even with a supportive community, the work can be really grueling,

2488
02:26:53,480 --> 02:26:55,880
Speaker 15: and the road from a finished movie to being on

2489
02:26:55,959 --> 02:26:59,840
Speaker 15: the big screen can be a monumental challenge. The People's

2490
02:27:00,360 --> 02:27:02,879
Speaker 15: is slightly unique in this way because of its peculiar

2491
02:27:03,040 --> 02:27:06,880
Speaker 15: copyright status of being a fair use superhero parody using

2492
02:27:06,920 --> 02:27:09,720
Speaker 15: some of our culture's most recognizable iconography to tell a

2493
02:27:09,840 --> 02:27:12,880
Speaker 15: very personal story. Right before the movie was set to

2494
02:27:12,920 --> 02:27:15,600
Speaker 15: premiere at tiff the Toronto International Film Festival back in

2495
02:27:15,680 --> 02:27:19,360
Speaker 15: twenty twenty two, Warner Brothers sent a vaguely worded but

2496
02:27:19,520 --> 02:27:22,600
Speaker 15: threatening letter which resulted in the People's Joker of being

2497
02:27:22,640 --> 02:27:25,800
Speaker 15: pulled from the festival save for one late night screening.

2498
02:27:26,480 --> 02:27:29,800
Speaker 15: Yet throughout the legal chaos, Vera Drew remained to steadfast

2499
02:27:29,959 --> 02:27:32,480
Speaker 15: to ensure the movie would be released the right way

2500
02:27:32,920 --> 02:27:36,080
Speaker 15: on the big screen where it belongs. This film has

2501
02:27:36,320 --> 02:27:39,600
Speaker 15: had like a I guess, a troubled history, some some

2502
02:27:39,840 --> 02:27:42,400
Speaker 15: might say, and how are you able to like stick

2503
02:27:42,440 --> 02:27:45,720
Speaker 15: with this project after encountering like hurdles and problems, like

2504
02:27:45,879 --> 02:27:48,480
Speaker 15: because like a certain point, it's like, is this like

2505
02:27:48,520 --> 02:27:51,360
Speaker 15: a some cost fallacy or something like how did you

2506
02:27:51,480 --> 02:27:54,160
Speaker 15: decide to like actually stick with this and like really

2507
02:27:54,240 --> 02:27:55,960
Speaker 15: fight for this as a as a piece of like

2508
02:27:56,040 --> 02:27:56,720
Speaker 15: expressive art.

2509
02:27:58,040 --> 02:28:00,200
Speaker 9: Gosh, you know, I mean I think I feel like

2510
02:28:00,720 --> 02:28:03,040
Speaker 9: I just didn't have like a choice, really, like I

2511
02:28:03,120 --> 02:28:08,880
Speaker 9: think with the movie done and with how well just

2512
02:28:09,000 --> 02:28:12,760
Speaker 9: our first screening at TIFF went like it was just

2513
02:28:13,000 --> 02:28:15,760
Speaker 9: like I was kind of at a point where I

2514
02:28:15,959 --> 02:28:19,760
Speaker 9: could shelve it, like cause that was really the other option,

2515
02:28:20,800 --> 02:28:24,720
Speaker 9: you know, put it just away for a few years

2516
02:28:24,840 --> 02:28:28,560
Speaker 9: and come back and maybe like you know, when public

2517
02:28:28,680 --> 02:28:32,039
Speaker 9: domain is a little bit more, you know, it falls

2518
02:28:32,120 --> 02:28:35,280
Speaker 9: under public domain because it will and like I mean,

2519
02:28:35,320 --> 02:28:38,320
Speaker 9: at least U Joker and Batman will be in public

2520
02:28:38,360 --> 02:28:41,400
Speaker 9: domain in ten or fifteen years. So like that was

2521
02:28:41,480 --> 02:28:43,720
Speaker 9: like an idea. I guess that was floated to me

2522
02:28:43,760 --> 02:28:45,600
Speaker 9: a few times. Bro, It's just like I don't I

2523
02:28:45,640 --> 02:28:47,600
Speaker 9: didn't want to wait that long, and I had just

2524
02:28:47,920 --> 02:28:50,240
Speaker 9: I really put all I had into this movie, you know,

2525
02:28:50,400 --> 02:28:53,840
Speaker 9: like I cashed in every favor I had ever accumulated

2526
02:28:54,400 --> 02:28:57,959
Speaker 9: in Hollywood financially, Like I took out a huge loan

2527
02:28:58,120 --> 02:29:02,920
Speaker 9: to finish it, and it was just this big, deeply

2528
02:29:03,080 --> 02:29:05,960
Speaker 9: personal thing that I had made that originally really was

2529
02:29:06,200 --> 02:29:07,960
Speaker 9: just for me and my friends. Like it was just

2530
02:29:08,080 --> 02:29:11,040
Speaker 9: kind of a thing that I had just made. You know,

2531
02:29:11,320 --> 02:29:13,480
Speaker 9: maybe I would have shown it to like my Patreon

2532
02:29:13,680 --> 02:29:17,320
Speaker 9: or something, but like after a certain point, like it,

2533
02:29:17,680 --> 02:29:19,920
Speaker 9: you know, once we had that like premiere, it was

2534
02:29:20,040 --> 02:29:22,480
Speaker 9: just like like I can't just post this to YouTube.

2535
02:29:22,520 --> 02:29:26,039
Speaker 9: I can't like just dump it somewhere or like shelve

2536
02:29:26,160 --> 02:29:28,160
Speaker 9: it all my agents and stuff. I have way too

2537
02:29:28,200 --> 02:29:31,560
Speaker 9: many agents now, and they all were like telling me

2538
02:29:31,680 --> 02:29:35,440
Speaker 9: to that basically, like it's it's it's okay that it's

2539
02:29:35,520 --> 02:29:37,480
Speaker 9: not coming out. We can basically just use this to

2540
02:29:37,560 --> 02:29:40,240
Speaker 9: get the next project going. But I mean I quickly

2541
02:29:40,320 --> 02:29:43,400
Speaker 9: realized in that process, like this movie is like a

2542
02:29:43,520 --> 02:29:46,640
Speaker 9: fucking like you don't show this movie to a studio

2543
02:29:46,720 --> 02:29:51,000
Speaker 9: executive and then they immediately are like, yeah, let's let's

2544
02:29:51,080 --> 02:29:54,039
Speaker 9: hire this person. They just want to like have lunch

2545
02:29:54,160 --> 02:29:57,320
Speaker 9: with this crazy bitch who made the Joker movie, you know.

2546
02:29:57,480 --> 02:29:59,960
Speaker 9: Like so it was like it just quickly became clear

2547
02:30:00,320 --> 02:30:04,200
Speaker 9: like where like kind of just the people around me

2548
02:30:04,280 --> 02:30:06,560
Speaker 9: who had the best interest of the movie at heart,

2549
02:30:06,680 --> 02:30:10,560
Speaker 9: and also like just what felt bad and what felt

2550
02:30:10,640 --> 02:30:13,760
Speaker 9: right and what felt right. Really was like taking the

2551
02:30:13,800 --> 02:30:16,520
Speaker 9: movie out just to festivals and kind of doing like

2552
02:30:16,560 --> 02:30:18,760
Speaker 9: a secret screening tour, which is what we did, and

2553
02:30:19,600 --> 02:30:21,959
Speaker 9: that was really exciting and kind of like a jokerfied

2554
02:30:22,320 --> 02:30:24,920
Speaker 9: way of sort of getting this movie out there. And

2555
02:30:25,920 --> 02:30:28,840
Speaker 9: that was really just on an emotional and like personal level,

2556
02:30:28,959 --> 02:30:32,120
Speaker 9: really what carried me through. I was lucky enough to

2557
02:30:32,200 --> 02:30:35,160
Speaker 9: be in attendance at one of the secret festival screenings

2558
02:30:35,160 --> 02:30:37,720
Speaker 9: a few years back, and I was delighted to hear

2559
02:30:37,840 --> 02:30:40,199
Speaker 9: that nearly two years after it initially premiered at Tiff

2560
02:30:40,520 --> 02:30:43,000
Speaker 9: The People's Joker was able to secure a distribution partner

2561
02:30:43,080 --> 02:30:46,480
Speaker 9: to put the movie in theaters nationwide, So once again

2562
02:30:46,560 --> 02:30:49,280
Speaker 9: I was fortunate enough to rewatch a piece of queer

2563
02:30:49,400 --> 02:30:52,480
Speaker 9: Batman art that otherwise would have never been made under

2564
02:30:52,600 --> 02:30:55,400
Speaker 9: Warner Brothers Thumb, and I think this is also the

2565
02:30:55,520 --> 02:30:57,720
Speaker 9: case with Late Stage Live and many of these new

2566
02:30:57,800 --> 02:31:01,720
Speaker 9: independent queer projects. They most likely would not be produced

2567
02:31:01,760 --> 02:31:05,200
Speaker 9: by one of the massive media conglomerates that controls almost everything.

2568
02:31:05,240 --> 02:31:05,640
Speaker 9: You see.

2569
02:31:06,560 --> 02:31:09,760
Speaker 15: The small, independent nature of these productions actually gives them

2570
02:31:09,800 --> 02:31:13,520
Speaker 15: an opportunity to be much more queer and politically radical

2571
02:31:13,800 --> 02:31:16,840
Speaker 15: than what would be allowed under Disney, Universal, Sony, Paramount,

2572
02:31:16,840 --> 02:31:18,120
Speaker 15: Warner Media Incorporated.

2573
02:31:18,600 --> 02:31:21,120
Speaker 8: We're like obviously far more radical politically than any other

2574
02:31:21,600 --> 02:31:23,800
Speaker 8: late night show on the air right now. And it's

2575
02:31:23,840 --> 02:31:25,560
Speaker 8: something we've been thinking about as we attempt to scale

2576
02:31:25,640 --> 02:31:28,280
Speaker 8: and try to find people who are going to fund us,

2577
02:31:28,760 --> 02:31:30,959
Speaker 8: is that there are certainly people who could give us

2578
02:31:31,000 --> 02:31:32,960
Speaker 8: a lot of money who would also then really want

2579
02:31:33,000 --> 02:31:35,760
Speaker 8: to like limit the kind of speech we can make

2580
02:31:35,920 --> 02:31:38,320
Speaker 8: and the kind of opinions we can have. And so

2581
02:31:38,400 --> 02:31:41,880
Speaker 8: there's obviously a balance as we look for funding and

2582
02:31:42,400 --> 02:31:47,040
Speaker 8: growth opportunities. But Brick the Public Access network is their

2583
02:31:47,120 --> 02:31:50,000
Speaker 8: whole thing is free speech, and so part of working

2584
02:31:50,040 --> 02:31:53,840
Speaker 8: with them is their commitment to free speech and radical programming.

2585
02:31:54,480 --> 02:31:58,280
Speaker 15: I'm really interested in the choice to have it also

2586
02:31:58,400 --> 02:32:02,120
Speaker 15: be on cable access. I find that to be oddly

2587
02:32:02,240 --> 02:32:06,160
Speaker 15: compelling in an interesting way, and I wonder, like, what

2588
02:32:06,400 --> 02:32:07,320
Speaker 15: led you to that decision.

2589
02:32:07,760 --> 02:32:10,240
Speaker 8: So part of that is like rules and regulations at

2590
02:32:10,320 --> 02:32:13,039
Speaker 8: Brick the studio. So you take one hundred dollars five

2591
02:32:13,040 --> 02:32:15,119
Speaker 8: week class with them to learn how to use their stuff,

2592
02:32:15,280 --> 02:32:16,720
Speaker 8: and they offer a lot of other classes too. You

2593
02:32:16,800 --> 02:32:19,240
Speaker 8: can take a podcasting class to use their podcasting studio,

2594
02:32:19,440 --> 02:32:21,560
Speaker 8: or a field class to be able to rent out

2595
02:32:21,560 --> 02:32:23,200
Speaker 8: equipment and go do stuff in the field. A lot

2596
02:32:23,240 --> 02:32:25,320
Speaker 8: of people make documentaries with their equipment. It's a very

2597
02:32:25,320 --> 02:32:27,720
Speaker 8: cool team. If you're in Brooklyn, you should go work

2598
02:32:27,720 --> 02:32:28,040
Speaker 8: with Brick.

2599
02:32:28,120 --> 02:32:28,600
Speaker 16: They're awesome.

2600
02:32:29,040 --> 02:32:31,520
Speaker 8: But on one of the contingencies of working in their

2601
02:32:31,600 --> 02:32:34,960
Speaker 8: space is that when you film something with them, you

2602
02:32:35,040 --> 02:32:37,640
Speaker 8: do eventually owe them a product that they air on

2603
02:32:37,720 --> 02:32:40,000
Speaker 8: their network, and that for us is the show. We're

2604
02:32:40,040 --> 02:32:42,400
Speaker 8: not doing a ton of other stuff right now, although

2605
02:32:42,520 --> 02:32:44,440
Speaker 8: you know, with infinite money and time, we would love

2606
02:32:44,480 --> 02:32:47,320
Speaker 8: to be doing many other things, but Brick is awesome

2607
02:32:47,440 --> 02:32:50,600
Speaker 8: and really values like free speech and creator freedom, and

2608
02:32:50,760 --> 02:32:52,720
Speaker 8: so even though we owe them a product, we get

2609
02:32:52,760 --> 02:32:55,880
Speaker 8: retain full ownership of our stuff. And so the way

2610
02:32:55,920 --> 02:32:59,640
Speaker 8: it is in this zany Internet landscape is that YouTube

2611
02:32:59,680 --> 02:33:01,560
Speaker 8: is the pls to get eyes on a project. Like

2612
02:33:01,640 --> 02:33:04,760
Speaker 8: if I thought that public access TV was going to

2613
02:33:04,800 --> 02:33:08,760
Speaker 8: be the place to to like blow up, I maybe

2614
02:33:08,840 --> 02:33:12,120
Speaker 8: would be like focusing much harder on promoting that end

2615
02:33:12,200 --> 02:33:15,480
Speaker 8: of distribution. But I think for what we're making and

2616
02:33:15,600 --> 02:33:19,280
Speaker 8: what we're doing, YouTube and the Internet is like how

2617
02:33:19,360 --> 02:33:22,280
Speaker 8: to build an audience. But it's it's it does lend

2618
02:33:22,360 --> 02:33:25,119
Speaker 8: it like an interesting credibility to be on public access

2619
02:33:25,360 --> 02:33:27,400
Speaker 8: and esthetically we really like leaning into sort of like

2620
02:33:27,440 --> 02:33:30,200
Speaker 8: the nineties public access vibes. Part of that is the

2621
02:33:30,240 --> 02:33:32,680
Speaker 8: equipment we're using. Our cameras are not the most modern,

2622
02:33:32,959 --> 02:33:34,959
Speaker 8: so you get a slightly grainy vibe.

2623
02:33:35,000 --> 02:33:35,240
Speaker 4: You get.

2624
02:33:35,320 --> 02:33:39,000
Speaker 8: The backdrop is like string and papers frum together. We're

2625
02:33:39,040 --> 02:33:42,880
Speaker 8: filming in four to three, which is a really strong decision. Well,

2626
02:33:42,879 --> 02:33:44,640
Speaker 8: actually we film in sixty nine, we expert in four

2627
02:33:44,680 --> 02:33:48,360
Speaker 8: three whatever, but it gives us a very distinct visual look.

2628
02:33:48,440 --> 02:33:51,680
Speaker 15: I think next episode we'll talk more about how so

2629
02:33:51,879 --> 02:33:54,680
Speaker 15: much queer video art feels like it's forced to be

2630
02:33:54,760 --> 02:33:57,160
Speaker 15: on YouTube and attempts to break out of that bubble.

2631
02:33:57,800 --> 02:34:00,200
Speaker 15: When The People's Joker was stuck in legal limbo, there

2632
02:34:00,280 --> 02:34:01,879
Speaker 15: was a lot of pressure just to put the film

2633
02:34:02,000 --> 02:34:05,600
Speaker 15: up online for free, and as much as Patients is painful,

2634
02:34:06,040 --> 02:34:08,600
Speaker 15: resisting that urge and waiting for the right distribution partner

2635
02:34:08,720 --> 02:34:11,360
Speaker 15: to come along really paid off in the long run.

2636
02:34:11,840 --> 02:34:14,959
Speaker 9: I was just surrounded by other filmmakers in the genre community,

2637
02:34:15,080 --> 02:34:17,880
Speaker 9: and you know who would see the movie at this

2638
02:34:17,959 --> 02:34:20,440
Speaker 9: festival and be like, you need to just wait, Like

2639
02:34:20,600 --> 02:34:22,280
Speaker 9: the person who's going to help you is gonna come.

2640
02:34:22,600 --> 02:34:25,000
Speaker 9: And if that doesn't happen, like you can self distribute,

2641
02:34:25,000 --> 02:34:26,600
Speaker 9: which I did not want to do. Like at a

2642
02:34:26,640 --> 02:34:28,920
Speaker 9: certain point it was just like I had spent so

2643
02:34:29,040 --> 02:34:32,040
Speaker 9: much money finishing it. I just I would have ruined

2644
02:34:32,360 --> 02:34:35,000
Speaker 9: my life. I think if I self distributed it, like

2645
02:34:35,240 --> 02:34:37,320
Speaker 9: I just couldn't. I didn't have the bandwidth. And I

2646
02:34:37,400 --> 02:34:39,560
Speaker 9: want to make films, I don't want to distribute them

2647
02:34:39,640 --> 02:34:42,680
Speaker 9: at this point, like maybe someday, but like right now,

2648
02:34:42,800 --> 02:34:45,480
Speaker 9: I just like want to tell as many stories as

2649
02:34:45,520 --> 02:34:47,840
Speaker 9: I can I had a lot of support around me,

2650
02:34:48,120 --> 02:34:51,120
Speaker 9: and there was just so much enthusiasm from you know,

2651
02:34:51,240 --> 02:34:53,920
Speaker 9: people like you who saw it at festivals last year,

2652
02:34:54,160 --> 02:34:59,320
Speaker 9: who like were basically like holy shit, and just all

2653
02:34:59,400 --> 02:35:01,880
Speaker 9: the kind of responses we're seeing now to it. Like

2654
02:35:01,959 --> 02:35:04,920
Speaker 9: it was, I got little like micronoses of that last year,

2655
02:35:05,840 --> 02:35:09,720
Speaker 9: which literally was I mean, I it's probably fucking tacky

2656
02:35:09,760 --> 02:35:11,240
Speaker 9: to say, but it was just the darkest year of

2657
02:35:11,280 --> 02:35:15,360
Speaker 9: my life. I was really just an anxious mess the

2658
02:35:15,560 --> 02:35:18,960
Speaker 9: entire time. But I really did make this movie to

2659
02:35:19,120 --> 02:35:23,840
Speaker 9: like not only understand myself and sort of mythologize my

2660
02:35:23,959 --> 02:35:26,440
Speaker 9: life and my friends' lives and stuff like that, but

2661
02:35:26,560 --> 02:35:28,560
Speaker 9: like I made it to like get better, Like I

2662
02:35:28,680 --> 02:35:31,680
Speaker 9: made it to kind of heal not only my relationship

2663
02:35:31,760 --> 02:35:35,480
Speaker 9: with like my gender, but my family and my art

2664
02:35:35,600 --> 02:35:38,560
Speaker 9: and like how I want to make stuff. And I think,

2665
02:35:38,640 --> 02:35:41,680
Speaker 9: what's really beautiful what happened in that like dark period

2666
02:35:41,840 --> 02:35:44,560
Speaker 9: and up up until now and even right now, this

2667
02:35:44,760 --> 02:35:48,119
Speaker 9: movie does really require me to take care of myself

2668
02:35:48,520 --> 02:35:52,959
Speaker 9: emotionally and mentally in ways that are what I've always needed.

2669
02:35:53,240 --> 02:35:56,160
Speaker 9: So it's it's been it's been a cool kind of

2670
02:35:56,320 --> 02:36:00,480
Speaker 9: just like really expensive therapy. Ultimately, even though a lot

2671
02:36:00,520 --> 02:36:01,959
Speaker 9: of it's been really grueling.

2672
02:36:02,600 --> 02:36:04,760
Speaker 15: That does it for this week at It Could Happen Here.

2673
02:36:05,160 --> 02:36:07,800
Speaker 15: In the next episode after the weekend, I'll conclude my

2674
02:36:07,879 --> 02:36:11,040
Speaker 15: conversation with Vera Drew and Ella Yerman talking about the

2675
02:36:11,240 --> 02:36:15,240
Speaker 15: pitfalls of representation, moving beyond the YouTube bubble, and the

2676
02:36:15,360 --> 02:36:19,000
Speaker 15: future of queer filmmaking. You can go to the Peoplesjoker

2677
02:36:19,040 --> 02:36:22,080
Speaker 15: dot com for information on tickets and showtimes, and you

2678
02:36:22,120 --> 02:36:25,280
Speaker 15: can find Late Stage Live by that name on all platforms,

2679
02:36:25,480 --> 02:36:27,280
Speaker 15: and to support the show, you can get behind the

2680
02:36:27,360 --> 02:36:32,360
Speaker 15: scenes content on Patreon at Latestage Live. Solidarity to everyone

2681
02:36:32,400 --> 02:36:34,760
Speaker 15: out there this week, see you on the other side.

2682
02:36:36,680 --> 02:36:39,840
Speaker 2: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

2683
02:36:39,920 --> 02:36:41,800
Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the Universe.

2684
02:36:42,440 --> 02:36:44,760
Speaker 10: It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.

2685
02:36:45,040 --> 02:36:47,680
Speaker 5: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

2686
02:36:47,720 --> 02:36:50,840
Speaker 5: coolzonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

2687
02:36:50,840 --> 02:36:54,040
Speaker 5: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

2688
02:36:54,080 --> 02:36:56,760
Speaker 5: find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at

2689
02:36:56,800 --> 02:36:59,920
Speaker 5: coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening,