WEBVTT - Evolution with Andrew 0:00:05.720 --> 0:00:10.640 Welcome to it could happen on the Internet the only podcast. 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:15.320 I'm Robert evans Um and today we've got St. Andrew 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:19.080 back in the studio. We don't actually have a studio. 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:21.200 That was a lie. That was a lie that I 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:24.000 do think I was cooler, St. Andrew. How are you 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.120 doing today? I am good, I'm good. Andrew dropped the saint. 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:31.320 Oh shit, I'm sorry. You're right, you're right, you're right. 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:34.960 We should probably. I'm sorry. That's good because I'm no 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:39.919 longer a scene. You got to sainted. So okay, if 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:44.440 I understand Catholicism, right, that means you undid someone else's 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:51.319 three miracles. I know nothing about Catholicism. Okay, well, pretty sure. 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:56.480 We have the Protestants Protestant ground. My knowledge of Catholicism 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:57.640 is that to be a saint, you have to do 0:00:57.720 --> 0:00:59.800 a couple of miracles, but the last one is always 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:02.520 something to do with being dead, Like they just decide 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:04.319 that whatever you do when you're a corpse, it's like, oh, 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:11.240 it's a miracle. Oh Catholicism, Andrew, what are we talking 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:15.039 about today? Um? Today we're gonna be talking about something 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:19.240 that I would see more traditional Catholics we have some 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:23.240 disagreements with Christians. We have some disagreements with them. That is, 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:27.479 I mean, that is our entire audience, is that this 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:32.160 this podcast is completely listened to by the Pope's Swiss 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:37.399 guards Vaticans. Yeah, we we have deep penetration in the Vatican. 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:42.160 That's an interesting choice of woods considering the end of 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:49.000 Pride month. But yeah, alright, so, um yeah, what are 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:54.320 we talking about. We'll be talking about human evolution, particularly 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:59.000 favorite kind of seems to human corporation. Okay, the origins 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:02.280 of human corporation. O. Yeah, I love this ship. I 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:04.919 think that, you know, people tend to emphasize human competition 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:10.079 a lot um because capitalism wants us to believe that 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:14.400 we have these competitive you know, dog eat dog. I 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:16.400 don't know where that term came from, By the way, 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:19.120 I've always been curious about that. Um. As far as 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:23.560 I know, dogs don't eat each other. Um. But it's 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:27.919 interesting phase and I think it's kind of apt here. Um. 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:31.760 This is this idea that that that we're just competing 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:34.440 all the time, that we're fighting is it's a survival 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:37.320 of the fittest, and only the strong survive. You know, 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:42.120 when people talk, you know, casually about prehistoric times. Is 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:47.480 this very it represents the stories that we've been told 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:50.000 about it, and as a result, it tends to be 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:56.200 very you know, competitive, highly patriarchal, highly violent, just constant 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:58.600 into put some violence. I mean that was the justification 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:03.360 used to you know, reinforce the state rights like or 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:07.720 the state of nature's everybody against themselves. And so as 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:10.320 a result, you know, a state had to be introduced. 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:13.400 We treated some of our freedoms for the safety that 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:17.079 the state is supposed to provide. But as far back 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:21.480 as Brudon and really even further, because let's be real, 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:25.360 it's a very European concept. That's something that can be 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:29.560 protected towards all human societies and all human philosophies. UM. 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:32.040 But Prudon was one of the first white guys, I guess, 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:37.160 in his time period and in his fields, really challenge 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:40.840 that notion with you know, mutually a fact of evolution. 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:44.760 Of course, the studies and stuff that he would have done, um, 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:47.480 the knowledge that he would have shared upon you know, 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:50.760 known unstudied by people before him, but he was one 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:52.920 of the first really bring all that knowledge together into 0:03:53.000 --> 0:04:00.840 one place. UM. Years later, UM an anthropologist and armatologists 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:03.520 was born. I mean, she wasn't born that, but she 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:06.920 became that later in life. In ninety six, that would 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:10.040 be Sarah Blaff for Hordy. And so she made many 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:16.960 major contributions revolutionary psychology and sociology biology, especially pioneering our 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:21.880 modern understanding of the evolutionary basis of female behavior in 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:26.039 both non human and human primates. In two thousand two, 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:28.760 she was recognized as one of the fifth most Important 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:33.800 Women in Science, and in fourteen, Mothers and Others, together 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:38.120 with her earlier work, earned plready the National Academies Award 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:42.000 for Scientific Reviewing in honor of her insightful and visionary 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:44.960 synthesis of a broad range of data and concepts from 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:49.000 across the social and biological sciences to illuminate the importance 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:53.040 of biosocial processes among mothers, in funds, and other social 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:58.120 actors informing the evolutionary crucival of human societies. In essence, 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:01.680 she got an award because she recognized the fact that 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:04.799 the relationship between mother and child and you know how 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:12.400 humans raise their children, Um, it's vital in our evolution 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:18.000 and becoming human. Yeah, I mean that's um, yeah, that's fascinating. 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.120 I didn't know any of that. Yeah, I mean humans, 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:24.480 they we we do recognize now I'm starting to recognize 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:29.600 more and more parati parmatologists at least that um humans, 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.799 I let other great apes rather, they do care, they shay, 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:38.159 and they empathize a lot more than we may have 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:44.760 originally thought. But humans still when at you know, the 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.720 caring competition, I think we because of even something like 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:52.840 all official anatomy um and how we structure society use 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:56.240 is probably one of the more pro social of you know, 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.799 the other great apes. Yeah, it's interesting whenever I because 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:02.719 I've I've read stuff about like empathy and apes, but 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:05.719 it's always in the context of the ones that we 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:08.360 taught sign language to. The one I'm remember in particularly 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:11.359 is and I'm I'm spacing on the name that the 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:14.440 scientists gave her, but one of the apes, yeah, Cocoa, 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:18.479 when her reaction to like nine eleven um because it 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:21.040 was apparently like on the TV or some ship wouldn't happened, 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:25.600 but like I never here emphasized the same degree um 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:28.360 or you know, maybe I just have not sought it out, 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:32.360 but it's certainly kind of less uh less discussed as 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:36.960 like evidence of empathy within um within like the societies 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:38.839 that they built, I guess like would be the term 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.039 for them, the little their communities, I don't know, whatever 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:45.320 you wanna call them. Yeah, yeah, I was interesting as well, 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:49.359 I mean, was a guerrilla and regarding her sign language 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:53.800 is actually interesting video sc talking about how you know 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:57.359 about sign language. Then we assume, but Couco is a 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:01.120 gorilla and humans are well closely related to two groups 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:06.920 who was being bunobos and chimpanzees, And we tend to 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:10.080 look at chimpanzees, which tends to be more you know, violent, 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:14.120 and people use them as an example for this how 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.400 humans naturally are despite the fact that you know, we 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:20.320 have millions of years evolution diverging from chimpanzees. You know, 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:23.720 the last common ancestor was like six or seven million 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:27.280 years ago. Yeah that that's a bit just like yeah, 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:31.840 like I got five or six years and I consider 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:37.280 us pretty like pretty far apart. Yeah yeah, I mean, 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:40.360 and the on top of that, like there was enough 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:44.720 time for some serious dip regences. It's not happening, you know, 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:50.680 like the fact that humans, you know, walk up right 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:54.480 and chimpanzee is they still have you know that four 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:59.920 legged Gate. It's actually something that I learned recently, if 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.280 all them two separate occasions, that being that particular kind 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:07.960 of knuckle walk. Um. Yeah, I just want that kind 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:12.720 of fascinating kind of besides the point. Um, but yeah, 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:14.800 I mean, we we tend to look at chimpanzee as 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:18.920 our closest example, but nobles which are a lot more social, 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:22.800 I would say, a lot more cooperative and less violent, 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:26.600 and chimpanzees actually share a lot of you know, similarities 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.240 in terms of you all behavior, and they're also one 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:32.400 of the few animal species that have been you know, 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:36.920 recognized as having sex for pleasure and not just procreation. 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:42.080 So good for them. When we talk about evolution, a 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:44.600 lot of it has been shaped by Darwin, even though 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:50.120 science is not about figures and big figures and their 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:54.560 big ideas, it's about the ideas themselves. Um. But still, 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:58.320 seeing as Darwin was the one who really introduced, no, 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:02.640 the idea of competition, the idea of of all that 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:08.000 in evolution, those sorts of notions which came really out 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:13.440 of his time and industrializing competitive wood. Um, it really 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:16.840 overstates the rule of competition as of driving force and evolution, 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:25.959 when in reality cooperation was far more potent force when 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.960 it comes to like pro social human tendencies, UM, you know, 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.559 doing things to benefit others. That's what pro social is. 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:37.960 Dr Hardie really comes down on the cooperation side of 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:40.839 things in her book Mothers and Others especially, brings together 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:45.280 all this evidence that we are basically descendants of a 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:49.480 place to see in species of cooperative breeders. Corporative breeding 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:55.040 is a practice amongst some animal species. UM. Other mammals 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.000 do it, but I think we are one of the few. 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:00.440 We were were the only create a to do it. 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:03.600 And there are other primates to do it, or the 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:07.319 monkeys to do it, but none closely related to us. 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:14.040 Cooperative breeding is basically practice or the reproductive strategy UM 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:21.160 where alla parental care is provided to the offspring of 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:25.280 you know, the children of sitting parents in the group. 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:31.920 All parental care is basically the practice of UM. It's 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:38.520 basically non direct parents care care provided by individuals other 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:44.400 than the parents. And so by having that networking place, 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:48.080 by having the process of our parenting in place, that's 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:50.000 how we were able to be so successful as a 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:55.440 species and distribution you know, um, you know, establishing ourselves 0:10:55.480 --> 0:11:00.440 in all these different environments because humans spread barely rapidly 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:03.360 around the globe and we used to. We've established ourselves 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:08.760 and created cultures and all sorts of unique environments, and honestly, 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:12.920 we are the most successful out of the primates, not 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:16.000 regard so kudus to us um. And that is because 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:23.200 of corporative breeding. Did you just woo Probert? Yeah, of course, yes, 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:27.319 like we have to, we have to racial the rest 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.400 of the primates, you know, very very based a us. 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:37.680 We literally reassoed them. Literally, we're re feeling everything on 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:42.520 this goddamn planet except for chickens. And no, except for chickens. 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:48.360 Corn is definitely ratioed us. Yeah, for sure. For sure 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:52.040 cows too. Man, Oh, yeah, that's true. That's true. How 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:59.440 is chickens? And there's there's one for sure. We have 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:01.559 a lot of that. Yeah. But I mean there's many 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:03.920 different species of goods and there's only one species a 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:08.440 few months. Yeah, you know. I mean, what's the population 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:12.400 of dogs? Oh? It's actually every time I look, it's 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:19.000 less than you'd expect. What nine million? Yes, that's ridiculous, 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:22.240 less than I have expected. I want more. Give me 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:26.480 more dogs millions like rookie numbers. Like I was going 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:28.680 to expect like at least a couple of billion just 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:31.600 based on but no, just nine. Yeah. Every time I 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:33.960 look it up, I recall being like, oh, there's not 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:36.080 as many dogs as I thought there were. I guess 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:41.760 they would in corporative Fredasu're not and only four dred 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:45.360 million cats. Those are rookie numbers. Cats. Come on, cats, 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:50.800 But it's actually probably I mean, party for the best. 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:54.959 I do a lot of damage, my dad always says. 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:57.440 My dad always says that we need more dogs in 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:01.000 the world to fix the fun up humans. Yeah, I 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.000 mean I feel a lot of pressure to put on dogs. 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:09.600 That's completely fair. I feel like that's really our job 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:12.920 to fix fucked up humans. Yeah, no, no, no, well, 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:17.400 I mean dogs for that. I mean cats and dogs 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:18.920 are pulling a lot of weights as it is. You 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:22.720 know they are. What are ferrets doing? Yeah? Fish doing? 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:30.240 What are ferrets? Question? Andrew ferrets? Fucking ferrets? Yeah, and 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:32.880 like fucking goldfish right, what are you guys? What do 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:34.720 you what a goldfish? What have they been doing lately? 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:38.200 Motherfucker's like, get off your asses and stop us from 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:41.440 killing people. Goldfish, stop the war in Ukraine? Goldfish, Come on, 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:43.960 I mean to get to cut gold fish some slack. 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.600 They're busy dying because people would want to take care 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:51.280 of them. Yeah, yeah, they're like all of the people 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.440 treat them like house plants. I didn't think we would 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.440 have Andrew being a goldfish to apologist on this podcast, 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:01.640 but correctly if I'm wrong, But I don't think cool 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:05.880 Bishop committed any like wool crimes or anything in my 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:10.319 rights to defend them. They haven't stopped any war crimes either. Plus, 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:11.959 I mean, this is my police snell kill talk, and 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:15.760 I've I've you know, I've I've neglected my fair shaff Yeah, 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:29.000 you know, speaking of cross species cooperation. When I was 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:31.920 younger and living in Texas, there was this one day 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:34.200 where like we're out on this in our like fucking 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:37.360 backyard area and we see walking through the alley behind 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:41.560 our houses this massive turtle probably three pounds like like 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:45.840 easily like three or four feet uh in in circumference 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.400 on his shelf, just like an enormous animal, just like 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:52.000 strolling around the neighborhood, not a species that you that 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:55.320 you see in Texas wild. So we like kind of 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:57.760 try to corral him. We can't lift him, he's massive, 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.280 but we like corral him into the into our yard 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:03.000 area and given some cucumbers, and eventually his person comes 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:06.000 around and the guy explains that like, yeah, when teenage 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:07.960 mut ninja turtles came out, a lot of people bought 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.040 a bunch of different kinds of turtles, thinking they were 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:12.520 good pets. But they didn't realize that there's a lot 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.080 of the turtles that get sold like never stopped growing, 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:17.360 Like if you keep them alive, they just keep getting bigger, 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:22.120 and so he like and they smell about only if 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:25.720 they're time. He had adopted this turtle and it lived 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:28.680 in his yard and he said like, yeah, he's really strong, 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:30.800 Like I have a good fence, but every two or 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:33.240 three years he'll just walk through it. Like most of 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:34.880 the time he chooses to stay in the yard, but 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:37.360 every couple of years he was, I'm just gonna go 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:39.000 on a walk and and he's like yeah, he just 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.040 like breaks through the fence. It takes him about a second, 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.040 like if he wants to do it. That's like, I 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.920 don't know if you've seen Baki, have you seen Backy? No? 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:51.600 Is this is this me um and no, this is 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:53.760 not my my web coming out story. I have not 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.400 read if you would much um in that recod, but 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:00.480 I started backy recently and the foost at apisode, they 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:04.520 established that all these people are coming to Tokyo, right, 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:08.360 but like since kind of fighting competition, and the way 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.400 that they established those people as are dangerous is that 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:14.080 these are all like criminals and like death through and 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.920 so like the in the process of being put to death, 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:21.440 like one person is, you know, being injected, only one 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:24.880 persons being electrocutes, psons being hung, and they all managed 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:29.280 to break free after they die and like break off 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.520 the prison easily. This one guy, he was imprisoned underwater. 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:37.720 He breaks out of the underwater prison and swims several 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.280 miles up to the surface and then swims all the 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:44.760 way to Tokyo. And it's like for some reason, not 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:47.520 too it will break it out of his inclusion or 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:51.600 whenever he chooses. Just reminded me of like they're trying 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:54.920 to establish his power levels. You No, he's he's too 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:59.280 powerful to be contained, um, And he's probably still alive 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:03.200 because they live forever um, which is again why they're 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:06.959 bad pets. Yeah, because what did you do about slavery? 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:09.919 Yeah yeah, yeah, well that he may not have been 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:12.679 around for slavery. But what did you do? What are 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:14.639 you going to do the next time there's slavery turtle? 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:16.480 You know, are you going to stop it? I don't 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.760 think so. You're a turtle, may mean next time? Is 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.880 this something you should be telling me? What is attention 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:27.680 to the Supreme Court? It's not. Well in the future, 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:34.159 that's sure, that's sure. What leave the turtles out of this? Well, 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:37.080 if they stop the Supreme Court, I will stop shooting 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:39.160 on the turtle. Is you're just doing that meme from 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:43.360 where people were like I gave up my plastic straws 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:47.720 for the turtles. Where are they now? That was a thing? Yeah, 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:53.800 it was bad. I don't remember that. It's like, come on, well, 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.680 I will see that. I mean, at least what corporative 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:03.200 bredos and I think our our tendency of propertive breeding 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.280 tendency probably has something to do with the fact that 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:10.359 we adopt other species as pets and as members of 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:15.280 our family, because you don't really see other animals doing that. No, 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:18.280 you know, um, I think there's there's some kind of 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:23.439 like fish or crustation or something that that keeps another species, 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:29.720 like as live stock. Yeah, there's a couple of species 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.399 to do versions of that for sure, right, But I 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:37.800 mean we love our dogs and our cats, our ferrets 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:44.720 and our snakes and our tarantulas and our ferrets question moods. Yeah, 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:48.960 people are trying to like domesticate foxes. We could love 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:52.160 them too. You know. It's the people. There are people 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:56.520 who who keep big cats that people who keep like ms, 0:18:57.240 --> 0:19:00.240 people who keep all kinds. We just you know, it's 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:01.879 like we've got to catch them all, you know, like 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:03.639 we just want to take all these creatures and we 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:07.359 wanted to love them. I don't know that says about 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:12.680 us other than the fact that our cooperative nature extends 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:16.600 beyond the boundaries of you know, us as a species. 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:22.080 We hrated very high levels of mutual tolerance of perspective 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:25.919 taken and other pro social impulses from ancestors who use 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:30.720 our parental care and provision of the young two survive. 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:36.040 I mean, we didn't invent complex corporation. Our pre human 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:44.400 ancestors did, but we elaborated upon it. Yeah, it's um. 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:46.280 It's always interesting to me to think about that. I 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:48.879 think back up to when of the first time I 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:51.040 ever went to a war zone was Ukraine and it 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:52.560 was this we were in this little town called of 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.119 Dificult that was getting shelled by the Russians, and there 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:57.480 was this big the way they do the heating over there, 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:00.879 they have these events going underneath, the tubes going underneath 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:03.320 all the houses to supply them with like gas and stuff. 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:06.600 And there's this this big was this big central like 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:09.800 kind of box thing and one there's a few of 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:11.720 them in the town and stuff that like is the 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:17.000 I don't know, I guess it's like the like nexus 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:21.000 of a bunch of different houses all whatever heating systems, 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:24.000 so it's warm, and the people they're like when the 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:26.120 war started, a bunch of people fled and they left 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:28.760 pets behind, you know, sometimes they didn't really have a 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:31.560 choice because it's war. Um. So there were all these 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.320 cats and dogs, and soon all these breeding cats and dogs, 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:37.000 all these kittens and puppies, and people who lived there 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:39.840 had like turned that little junction box for the heating 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:43.720 system into this like massive kind of open air cat 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:47.040 and dog sanctuary. So like there were all of these 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:49.280 like dozens and dozens of puppies and kittens just like 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:53.240 living together in this big heating box. Um in the 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:55.199 middle of this like being taken care of by all 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:57.840 these local ladies who would scrounge up food every morning 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:01.359 and make sure that they were all taken care of. UM. 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:03.040 And it was interesting because you could see all these 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:05.600 like cats and dogs living together and all of these 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:09.520 people coming together to take care of animals they didn't know. UM. 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:11.840 At the same time, like all of the people were 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:14.480 doing their level best to murder the folks like a 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:18.240 mile and a half away and vice versa. UM. So 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:23.159 we contain multitudes of human beings, definitely, I mean that 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:25.560 that's possible too. Rite like the fact that we are 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:30.639 soon eager to like share another emotional states, you know, 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:36.600 to empathize and do weither we assume eager to involve 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:39.840 ourselves and and give and share with those who are 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:43.480 unrelated to us. I mean, there are a lot of 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:47.520 species that do not realise the young at all, um. 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:49.960 And then there was the do and try to kill 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:53.560 other people's young, and then there was that tjest to 0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:58.359 care of their own young. But you know, we even 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:01.800 in this like super individual realistic capitalists will we still 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:05.920 find ways to look out for each other. And I 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:10.040 think that's beautiful. Yeah, of course, you know, cooperative reading 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:13.960 doesn't mean that there's like constant like part either dynast 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:19.680 or like cooperation and yeah, all the time it's still 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:24.960 can't be competition, which you know all these different things. Yeah, 0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:33.600 but behaviorally, anatomically, and emotionally modern humans cooperative breeders. And 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:37.760 the crazy part is those you know, three um traits 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:40.400 you know, behavior and not to be in an emotion, 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:47.000 those illustrats not evolved simultaneously. So for example, or physical 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:49.480 features like our eyes and the fact that our eyes 0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:52.439 are are able to you know, we can see the 0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:56.200 whites and our eyes and that way we can put 0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:58.720 ourselves in the people's perspectives and that kind of thing. 0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:01.520 We could see the emotions clearly, you know, the fact 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:05.720 that we are we were prone to sharing our smiles, 0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:11.280 and the fact that, um, you know, our vocal courts 0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:13.680 have such range, would be able to communicate to many 0:23:13.680 --> 0:23:19.680 different things. Um. While these are hallmarks of the fact 0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:26.800 that you know, even before our super big brains developed, 0:23:27.760 --> 0:23:29.960 we were ready getting these treats that would have helped 0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:34.880 us in cooperation. But I wanted a lot of time though, 0:23:35.119 --> 0:23:36.639 because you know a lot of the shapes we developed 0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:40.919 before language. Um, it's like what was the first word 0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:44.439 of humanity. You know, what was the first sentence, what 0:23:44.480 --> 0:23:48.080 was the first thing like we said, and how did 0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:52.640 other people react when the person said it. I can 0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:57.879 imagine that, you know, like agriculture, something that's developed independently, UM, 0:23:57.920 --> 0:24:03.639 on multiple different occasions in different places. But I still wonder, 0:24:03.960 --> 0:24:09.120 like what those Foost conversations might have been A vote, Yeah, 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:10.960 I mean I think a lot of them probably would 0:24:10.960 --> 0:24:13.399 have been arguments with other people who didn't want us 0:24:13.440 --> 0:24:19.000 to do words, UM, who were ultimately right, you know, 0:24:19.640 --> 0:24:25.680 if if only yeah, yeah, I don't know, it's interesting, 0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:28.800 like I think it probably like we we just did 0:24:28.880 --> 0:24:32.480 a couple of episodes about the history of of of 0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:35.840 gynecology UM, and one of the things that we talked 0:24:35.880 --> 0:24:38.880 about at the start was like the prehistory of medicine, 0:24:38.960 --> 0:24:42.880 which which likely began in an organized way UM by 0:24:43.040 --> 0:24:45.600 like likely the first people practicing medicine in any way. 0:24:45.640 --> 0:24:48.560 We're pregnant women and women who had been pregnant trying 0:24:48.560 --> 0:24:52.040 to help each other survive pregnancy, right, UM. And I 0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:54.879 wouldn't be surprised if that, I mean, food gathering is 0:24:54.920 --> 0:24:56.959 obviously the other one, but I wouldn't be surprised if 0:24:57.000 --> 0:25:00.359 like language started as a way to try and like 0:25:00.560 --> 0:25:07.040 communicate and better survive making babies because it's it's like 0:25:07.200 --> 0:25:12.040 super dangerous and also entirely necessary, um and and something 0:25:12.080 --> 0:25:15.760 that kind of particularly benefits from communication. So I don't know, 0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:17.720 I wouldn't be shocked if that was like the first 0:25:17.720 --> 0:25:22.080 thing we talked about, so to speak. Mm hm, that 0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:25.040 makes sense. But I'm also thinking as well, and it 0:25:25.280 --> 0:25:29.280 just occurred to me it's pretty possible that like that 0:25:29.359 --> 0:25:33.119 the first language was not spoken language. I feel like 0:25:33.760 --> 0:25:35.800 it may have been like a form of sign language, 0:25:37.000 --> 0:25:39.439 you know, because you know, we have these hands, and 0:25:39.920 --> 0:25:43.320 people tend to talk with their hands, so yeah, oh yes, 0:25:43.400 --> 0:25:46.040 I think the hypothesis is that, you know, we use 0:25:46.160 --> 0:25:50.959 the hands to communicate things before we started speaking. I mean, 0:25:51.000 --> 0:25:53.800