1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: Hi, this is new due to the virus. I'm recording 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: from home, so you may notice a difference in audio quality. 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 1: On this episode of news World, we are going to 4 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: explore the shocking idea. But the President Nited States Barack Obama, 5 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: and the Vice President United States Joey were directly involved 6 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: in the room in meetings during a process which in 7 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: Lee Smith's new book, The Permanent Coup, how enemies farn 8 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: in domestic targeted the American President become clear. Remember the 9 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: president they're targeting is the brand new, barely elected Donald J. Trump, 10 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: and on the left, there was a desperation to stop 11 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: him from taking office, to impeach him if necessary, to 12 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: cripple his activities. And what Lee Smith has discovered really 13 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: working with a wide range of people, is that this 14 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: goes all the way to the Oval office, with President 15 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: Obama and the Advice President Biden was in the room. 16 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: I think you're going to find this conversation with Lee 17 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: Smith remarkable disturbing. Remember Leah earlier wrote The Plot Against 18 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: the President, which was a runaway bestseller, where he began 19 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: to really lay out this weird relationship between the deep 20 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: state of the Justice Department and the Intelligence community and 21 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: the deep state in the news media, and the way 22 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: they colluded to create totally false reports designed to destroy 23 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: Donald Trump and now for the permanent coup. Smith reaches 24 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: back to the same kind of amazing context access to 25 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: people who have been really working defending America, including Congress 26 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: and Devinnas and the president's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani. And 27 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: I think that when you're done with this particular podcast 28 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: and you think about this conversation with Smith, you're going 29 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: to be very deeply disturbed. And that's why I'm pleased 30 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: to welcome my guest, Lee Smith. I'm delighted to have 31 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,959 Speaker 1: as my guest someone who I think has already made 32 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 1: a remarkable contribution to understanding our time. Lee Smith is 33 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: a great journalist. His works appeared in real clear investigations, 34 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,239 Speaker 1: the Federalist Tablet. I hadn't thought about it, the strong 35 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: horse power of politics in the clash of Arab civilization. 36 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: Maybe that was actually a good background to understand how 37 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: the American system has been decaying. He wrote a book 38 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: which I thought was tremendous, The Plot against the President, 39 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: which I thought, for me, it was the first time 40 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: I really understood the way in which the deep establishment 41 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: and the bureaucracy and the deep establishment of the news 42 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 1: media were so mutually reinforcing, and in this case we're 43 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: clearly out to create a anti constitutional coup against the 44 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: President of States. It's an amazing book, and if you 45 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: haven't read that, go back and look at the plot 46 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: against the president. But also at the same time, I 47 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: have to urge you a brand new book coming out, 48 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: the Permanent Coup, How enemies foreign and domestic targeted the 49 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: American President. I want to start at a very fundamental 50 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: level of league and ask you what gave you the 51 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: intuition to write these two books and to have a 52 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: sense that is so much more complete than almost anybody 53 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: else covering this. Did you wake up one morning and 54 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: just say, wow, this feels wrong or what happened? Well? First, 55 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: mister speaker, thank you very much for your very kind 56 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: words and for inviting me to come on and speak 57 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: with you again. It's always real pleasure. You hit on 58 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: something very important in the introduction, which is my background 59 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: looking at Middle East politics and how things worked there 60 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: prepared me to see what was happening in the United 61 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 1: States of America. The two most important ministries and hard 62 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 1: Arab security regimes are the Ministry of Information, which is 63 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: the media, and the Ministry of the Interior, which covers 64 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: intelligence services. These are how internal operations are typically run 65 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 1: through the spy services and through what passes for the press, 66 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: but it's actually just platforms for information operations. When we 67 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: started to see rushigate on fold, that was precisely what 68 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: we've come to call the deep state was using here, 69 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: running it through formerly prestige press organizations like the New 70 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: York Times, the Washington Post, CNN, NBC, MSNBC, and our 71 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: federal law enforcements to and the FBI. So while this 72 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: shocked me, and while it should shock people to see 73 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: this happen in the United States, this is the typical 74 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: structure of how these things work. So that allowed me 75 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: to see what was going on, and then I think 76 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: just as a concerned American thinking that this was a 77 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: profoundly important thing to get out and to try to explain. 78 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: So that's really what it was. The alarm and then 79 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: the determination to say, no, this is what's happening. This 80 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: is what this Russia collusion narrative is about. This is 81 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: where it comes from, and this is its purpose. So 82 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: when you look at it from that perspective and your 83 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: first book, I can't help but believe that the two 84 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: books are almost back to back in a sense. You 85 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: have enormous credit he's given to Devin Nunas, who was 86 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: the Chair of the House Intelligence Community in the Republican 87 00:05:53,000 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: line and who really persevered against unbelievable smears and attack. Yes, 88 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: do you sense that gradually the tide has turned? In 89 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: that sense? The things that the left could get away 90 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: with in seventeen and even in eighteen are harder and 91 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: harder for them now with Attorney General Bar and the 92 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: different things we're going on. Yes, I think that if 93 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 1: you hear the different things that Attorney General bar has said, 94 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: which both give me confidence not only in his abilities 95 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: as a lawyer, but also his abilities to understand what's happening. 96 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: He has also described it saying this is really astonishing. 97 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:36,239 Speaker 1: I mean we typically see these things and third world regimes. 98 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: The fact that he is on board now is a 99 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 1: huge improvement over four years ago when this began, and 100 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: certainly when Congressman una Has first started to see what 101 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: was going on. Congressman Unaz walked into the fire and 102 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: it was a very lonely walk and by continuing to 103 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: hammer away at this, by continuing to demand documents, by 104 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: continuing to investigated. There were two things that happened. First 105 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: of all, he got the information out, which was very important. 106 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: The second thing was he encouraged his colleagues on the 107 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: Hill to step forward with him and walk through the fire. 108 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: This is one of the things that we saw as 109 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: the Russigate operation turned into impeachment, and we saw the 110 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: different hearings in the Intelligence Committee and then Judiciary as well. 111 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: All of the Republican congressmen at that point knew the score. 112 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: They knew what these operations targeting President Trump looked like. 113 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: And that was because Congressman Nunez had explained it patiently. 114 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: He brought these different things to light. So by the 115 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: time the impeachment came up, everyone knew what the Democrats, 116 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: what the press, what the intelligence agencies were doing to 117 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: go after President Trump. Because Congressman Nunez is very generous 118 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: with his colleagues and is a very tough time. You 119 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: see the way the press beat up on people. You 120 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: see the way they tried to destroy different people, and 121 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: they did destroy different people. They would just swarm them, 122 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: envelop them in noise, vitriol. It was awful. So it's 123 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: understandable why lots of people did not join the Congressman 124 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: at that point. But his perseverance, his determination showed them 125 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: it was okay to step forward and speak the truth. 126 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: So that's where we are now, thanks to the Congressman, 127 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: that people recognize what's going on and they're speaking the truth. 128 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: Has it evolved differently than you thought it would when 129 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: you finished the plot against the president, as you went 130 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: back and began cooling the other this new book, that 131 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: there were surprises there that you didn't expect. Yes, the 132 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: one very big surprise given that James Comey, John Brenn, 133 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: and James Clapper had been appointed by Barack Obama. These 134 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: were Obama's spies, right, I mean, these are the people 135 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: who he had named. I assumed that Barack Obama must 136 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: have been read in at different points, or he must 137 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: have been somewhat aware, even though it was the Hillary 138 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: Clinton campaign that had paid for the dossier to get 139 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: the Russia collusion narrative up and running. So I had 140 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:23,359 Speaker 1: assumed that Barack Obama must somehow know. What's been surprising 141 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: throughout the spring is to see the number of documents 142 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: that have been declassified showing Obama's actual hand. Even more 143 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: surprising than that, in some ways it's logical, has been 144 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: the fact that Obama has raised his hand to say, yes, 145 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: I'm here. I did it when the Department of Justice, 146 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: for instance, filed emotion to dismiss the charges against General Flynt, 147 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: and Obama had arranged a leak of a meeting where 148 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: he said he was very worried about the rule of 149 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: law and he thinks that General Flynn had perjured himself. 150 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: I think this was an astonishing thing, the idea that 151 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: the former president of the United States is leaking this 152 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: information and involving himself in this case against General Flynn. 153 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: And we saw the different documents being declassified where he 154 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: had actually told James Comey to investigate General Flynn. So 155 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: we've been speaking rightly for several years about the deep State, 156 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: about intelligence bureaucrats, about other bureaucrats playing a role in 157 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: targeting President Trump. What has happened over the last several months, 158 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: we've come to understand the deep state was an instrument. Yes, 159 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: it's a living organism, but it doesn't have a mind 160 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: of its own. In this case, the deep state, these 161 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: intelligence operatives the intelligence bureaucrats were directed by the highest 162 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: officeholder in the land, Barack Obama. To see evidence of 163 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: that unfold over the last few months, Yes, I think 164 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: that's astonishing, and I think that many other people who've 165 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: been following this and who've seen that are also astonished 166 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: that Obama nurtured a culture of espionage in his administration. 167 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: This is shocking. I lived through the Watergate. My first 168 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: campaign for Congress was a seventy four isn't this actually 169 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: much bigger than Watergate? Because there you had a president 170 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: trying to cover up a truly stupid act, the attempt 171 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:59,439 Speaker 1: to burglarize the Democratic National Committee at the Watergate building. 172 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: But here you have the president the United States directly 173 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: engaged in espionage against his successor, the duly elected president. 174 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: I can't remember anything. I mean, maybe the hatred between 175 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,079 Speaker 1: Jefferson and Adams, but it just strikes me that it 176 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: is so unprecedented, and nobody has put the dots together 177 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 1: and said, wait a second, this isn't just some political thing. 178 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: This is a deliberate and direct violation of the American 179 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: system by the incumbent president United States. I think you're 180 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: absolutely right. There are a couple of differences which make 181 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: it worse. One is that Obama was using active serving officials, right. 182 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: They were employed by the federal government, using federal government resources. 183 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: The Watergate break in. These were guys who used to 184 00:12:55,520 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: work for the CIA. I'm not saying that Watergate is okay. 185 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: I'm just pointing out the differences here that make it 186 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: even worse. The other key thing here is and this 187 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: underscores the role of the press and brings it back 188 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: to something that I've said since the earlier book the 189 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: plot against the president came out. None of these things 190 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 1: would have been possible without the media. And it's not 191 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: just the media being ignorant or even complicit. The media 192 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: was the essential component of this operation. The Watergate story 193 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: was broken by two reporters at the Washington Post we 194 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: all know famously now Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein put 195 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:48,439 Speaker 1: this story out. No one at the prestige press to organizations. 196 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: It's not just that they haven't covered it. They have 197 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: volunteered their once prestigious brands to serve as platforms for 198 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: this operation. So they're not just covering it up. They 199 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: have worked to advance this operation. What is going to 200 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: make this extremely dangerous is as we see John Durham, 201 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: who's investigating the origins of the anti Trump operation Russia Gate, 202 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: if there are more indictments large parts of this country. 203 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about resistance fanatics or the progressives or 204 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: the lunatics who are taking to the streets to destroy 205 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: American cities. I'm talking about regular Americans. They may be Democrats, 206 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: they may be liberals, they may be Centrists, whatever, but 207 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: they still depend on much of their information from places 208 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: like the Times, like the Post. They are going to 209 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: be absolutely astonished and baffled when they see these indictments 210 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: coming out. What will they make of it? Will they 211 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: then lose faith in the justice system because these appear 212 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: to be coming out of nowhere, because the press has 213 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: not only failed to inform from them, but the presses 214 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: lie to them. The press has betrayed them. As we 215 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: move closer to what resolution of these various operations, we 216 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: are nonetheless moving into extremely dangerous territory once again, where 217 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: the country is likely to be split over this. I'm 218 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: very happy about the recent announcement regarding one of the 219 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: Russigate conspirators, FBI lawyer Kevin Klein Smith. But as we 220 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: see it's likely that more and more names are added 221 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: to this list. We're heading into dangerous ground. One of 222 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: the things I've been intrigued with, if there was any 223 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: sense of justice, wouldn't the Post in the New York 224 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: Times be returning their Pulitzers for their earlier book. I 225 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: contacted someone at the Pulitzer Prize Committee and I said, 226 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: you awarded a Pulitzer to the Times and the Post 227 00:15:54,880 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: that rightly belongs to rogue figures at the FBI. They 228 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: were illegally leaking classified information to further a political operation. 229 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: So looking at it that way, they weren't doing journalism. 230 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: They were furthering a political operation against the press. So unfortunately, 231 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: the pulotz are which used to be an important commemorative 232 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: item noting someone's significant work in journalism, it's no longer 233 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: the case. I mean, there have been flaws with the Peelotzer, 234 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: with the entire prize system for decades. But yes, I 235 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: certainly think that this brings it to a crashing and 236 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: ignoble end. It struck me that if you follow the evidence, 237 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: it is astonishing how bad the reporting was, and it's 238 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: astonishing that they don't confess that they got these prizes 239 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: for printing things, but we're not true that had been 240 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: fed to them by people who were violating the law. 241 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: There's one thing that you're supposed to do as a journalist, 242 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: and that's you are supposed to represent the common sense 243 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: of the American people, saying, you know, that doesn't sound right, 244 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,360 Speaker 1: that sounds phony, or that smells fishy. That's all you're 245 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: supposed to do, and then just follow your hunch figure 246 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: out what happened. And that's just what it is. So 247 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: the fact that these people who have been on the 248 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: Rushi Gate story at the Post and The Times, what 249 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: they're doing has nothing to do with journalism. They are 250 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: pushing an information operation. They have teamed with the American 251 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 1: Intelligence services to push the So, yeah, it's nothing like journalism. 252 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: We do still have real journalism. I know that a 253 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 1: lot of people hate Twitter for many of the right reasons, 254 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: but I've been hugely inspired by the number of citizen 255 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: journalists on there who are just phenomenal researchers. I've learned 256 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 1: so much from them in terms of how to find 257 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: legal documents, how to read legal documents, how to understand 258 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: what's going on. So we have Americans here who not 259 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: only want information, but who are providing information. So I'm 260 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: extremely optimistic about our fellow Americans, about them wanting information 261 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: and providing it. The prestige press organizations though, like the 262 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: Times in the Post, yeah, they will continue to bear 263 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: those names, perhaps for many years to come, but these 264 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 1: are not the organizations that they were even fifteen years ago. 265 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: In addition to the decay of the American news media 266 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: and the corruption of some elements of the deep State, 267 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: we've probably had a more active effort to penetrate from 268 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: foreign countries than any time since the end of the 269 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: Cold War. And how do you measure the impact of 270 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: all of that. In some ways, that's what Washington has 271 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: been set up to do. We are the great world 272 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: power right now, so certainly foreigners would come here to 273 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 1: complete their case and to vie for attention, mostly with 274 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: other factions from their own country. Right. So you see 275 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: different people arguing in Washington, whether it's various Iranian factions, 276 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: various Lebanese factions, various Syrian factions, various Eastern European factions, 277 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: for instance, the Ukrainians. Now we have the Belarusians who 278 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 1: are fighting for the attention of Washington policymakers. That's part 279 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: of the role of being a great power. One of 280 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 1: our problems, though you've written about China extensively in your 281 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: great recent book about China, one of our problems is 282 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: that Americans have changed their priorities. Right, the priorities should 283 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: be to protect and advance American interest. Many people have 284 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: forgotten about this and have seen foreign entities as a 285 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: way to advance their personal interest at the expense of 286 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: the national interest. This is human nature. It's an extremely 287 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: dangerous thing, though, and we should be monitoring this closely, 288 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 1: and when these different things happen, as they've happened with 289 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden, we should speak openly about this to make 290 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: sure these things don't happen, because they do make national 291 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: security vulnerable. The whole thing with Ukraine and with China, 292 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:39,959 Speaker 1: because Hunters been involved in both countries. Whether or not 293 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 1: he actually broke any law and I have no idea, 294 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: but the Chinese side of the story is in a 295 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: way more opaque and potentially bigger, because there apparently he 296 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: was not getting a salary so much as he was 297 00:20:54,800 --> 00:21:00,439 Speaker 1: simply getting the opportunity to have a non investment treated 298 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 1: as an investment, and then ultimately take out potentially millions 299 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: of dollars, and in the Ukrainian case, he's making up 300 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: eighty thousand dollars a month. In a sense, he's just 301 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: old fashioned money. It's not like the guys who are 302 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 1: coming in with cyber capabilities and trying to change the 303 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: message on Twitter or trying to figure out a way 304 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: to break in and steal votes. And we're phrased with 305 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: all these new complexities that I think we're almost totally 306 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: unprepared to really understand how big and how dangerous they're 307 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: going to be. When people are worried about foreign interference, 308 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: the Ukrainians play a large part in it. These Ukrainians 309 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: played a role in the two sixteen elections, and Ukrainian 310 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: officials and Ukrainian activists tried to interfere against Donald Trump. 311 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: The important thing, though, I think, is that it is 312 00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 1: we Americans who brought them in the same way as 313 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: it is we Americans who talked about China in different 314 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: ways or who made cases for China that were naive 315 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:13,199 Speaker 1: and dangerous. So while foreign interference is something to be 316 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: wary of, and there are different people who are trying 317 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,439 Speaker 1: to interfere, not just in our elections of it in 318 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: our political process. Generally, the real danger comes from US 319 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: formers come to Washington to try to get American policy 320 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: makers to back them against their rivals. What we've taken 321 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: to doing, which is extremely dangerous, is we are using 322 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: foreign powers to go after our rivals. That's what happened 323 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen when the Democrats try to turn the 324 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: Ukrainians against the Trump administration. With China, it's awfully similar. 325 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 1: Many American policymakers are using Chinese power to damage their 326 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: American rivals. So again, I bring it back to us. 327 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: That's the real danger with foreign interference. What we're doing, 328 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 1: how we're trying to use foreigners against our own domestic opponents. 329 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: Do you think the Attorney General and others, Department Homeland Security, 330 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: they were much better prepared against cyber manipulation than we 331 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: were in sixteen? Do you believe that? Or do you 332 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 1: think that the forces on the other side are just 333 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 1: that dramatically bigger. One of the first things I thought 334 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: when I heard about Russian cyber intrusions. I mean, I 335 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 1: certainly believe it happened. Russia's a middling power. We're not 336 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: talking about the Soviet Union here and the Russians were 337 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 1: actually going to go after US voting machines, and we're 338 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 1: really going to try to undermine our electoral institutions and 339 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: target a presidential election in a very large way. I 340 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: think they would recognize that's an unwise action. If they 341 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: were to do something that seriously in that larger way, 342 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 1: I think that they would understand the retaliation for such 343 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: an action would be very difficult for them to withstand. 344 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: I don't think that's true with China. I think the 345 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: Chinese are much more actively involved, So I think it 346 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 1: depends on the foreign power involved who's tangling with us. Again, 347 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: the Iranians have a different view of the world as well. 348 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: You've written about this. I think it's become clear that 349 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: the premier threat to American national security is the Chinese 350 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: Communist Party. Well, I think that's right. That any question, 351 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: and they're coming out of some so many different directions, 352 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: But it's sort of amazing. What are you expecting from 353 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: bars entire project of appointing you attorneys in sort of 354 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: unleashing them. What's your sense of it. I'm extremely optimistic. 355 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: I was pleased with the announcement that Kevin Kleinsmith has 356 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: taken a guilty plea because there's indications there saying that 357 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 1: other people had seen the document that he altered before 358 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: it was altered. That may suggest there's a conspiracy, and 359 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: I believe that this is one of the things that 360 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 1: mister Durham has been looking at. There's another attorney who 361 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: was appointed, John Bash, who was appointed to investigate the unmaskings. 362 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,199 Speaker 1: The unmaskings I think are very important. The FISA abuse 363 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: is very important, and that's a large part of what 364 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 1: mister Durham has been looking at. The important thing about 365 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,479 Speaker 1: the unmaskings to keep in mind, and this is what 366 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: Congressmannon has started with in March twenty seventeen. We now 367 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: know the reason that they went after noon has so 368 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: hard and the reason they went nuts, it's because this 369 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: was the Obama administration. It wasn't the FBI. The FBI 370 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: was largely behind the FISA abuse. There are other figures 371 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: involved as well. I believe John Brennan was deeply involved 372 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: in that. There are other figures too, but the unmasking, 373 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: this is what was going on in the Obama administration. 374 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: We saw the list declassified in the spring of the 375 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 1: thirty nine Obama officials who had been unmasking Michael Flynn alone. 376 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: So this is astonishing. It is so astonishing that it's 377 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:43,360 Speaker 1: almost crazy, right, right, Why was Obama's ambassador to Italy 378 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: unmasking General Michael Flynn's name from transcripts of classified intercepts? 379 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 1: What was going on in that administration from the top 380 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 1: on down? I think when you look at it that broadly, 381 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: it was everyone who's involved, including his vice president Joe Biden. 382 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: What was going on at the top. But did Biden 383 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: himself do any unmasking? Yeah, he did one January twelve, 384 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 1: I believe that was the date of the unmasking. But yes, 385 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 1: Joe Biden is on that list. And that's a useful 386 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 1: thing for people to keep in mind. Now, did he 387 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: unmask Flynn Unlin, Yes, Flynn. He may have unmasked others. 388 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: It's important, I think for people to recall that this list, 389 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: while it showed widespread abuse of surveillance capabilities in the 390 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: US government, it's just about Michael Flynn. My understanding, as 391 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 1: I report in this book, they were unmasking everyone. They 392 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: were unmasking everyone in the administration, and Congressman Una has 393 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: again talked about this in March twenty seventeen. I have 394 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: some of the names in there. People will be surprised 395 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 1: by some of the people who were unmasked, people who 396 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: left the administration in not terrific ways. General Maddis, like 397 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,439 Speaker 1: former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson. Even these people's names 398 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: were apparently unmasked from transcripts of classified intercepts. They were 399 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 1: going after everyone. It's really crazy. Yeah, I mean, do 400 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: you have to have a chart of everybody who unmasked everybody? No? 401 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: The only one we have right now is General Flint. 402 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 1: We don't have lists of anything else, and I imagine 403 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 1: people will be reluctant to release those lists because of 404 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 1: the ideas to protect the privacy of American citizens. I 405 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: think there probably is not going to be a comprehensive list. 406 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: I think that that goes directly to the forty fourth 407 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: president of the United States. What was going on over there? 408 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: We know that Samantha Power, Former Congressman Trey Gaudy says 409 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: in his interview, says, she unmasked more people, and the 410 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 1: history of our government. Why were they doing this? What 411 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: was the culture there that it was okay to spy 412 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: on political opponents? It wasn't just the Trump team. I've 413 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: written before right here as well, explaining that they spied 414 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: on opponents of the Irandeal, which included not just Republicans, 415 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: that also included Democrats, people from their own party. That's 416 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: who they were really worried about, who was going to 417 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: oppose the Irandean They were Democrats. It's just mind boggling 418 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: that an administration would be so committed to having its 419 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: opponents under political surveillance. It's a very serious thing. And 420 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: so while the Durham investigation is very very important and 421 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: I'm very optimistic about the way it's going, the Unmasking 422 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: investigation has not been remarked on enough because this is 423 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: also a very important investigation. So let me ask you, 424 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: do you expect some kind of October brus from the 425 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: Biden campaign or the deep state? That's an interesting question. 426 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: We're in the middle right now. Have another one of 427 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: their operations, which is this mail in voting on the 428 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: US Post Office nonsense. I should note, by the way, 429 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: this operation essentially started with Barack Obama on April tenth. 430 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: Obama's Twitter feed it's usually full of anodyne, good cheer, 431 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: birthday wishes, a book recommendation or two on April tenth, 432 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, Obama stuck his hand up and tweeted three 433 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 1: times about mail in voting. This also signaled Obama's central 434 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: role in the Biden campaign. I mean, the way that 435 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: I understand it is that Joe Biden is really an 436 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: avatar for an Obama third term. That's what's actually happening here. 437 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: We know they're trying to come back with the Russia's stuff, right, 438 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: They're using the Russia stuff offensively and defensively. Anyone who 439 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: says anything about Joe and Hunter Biden in Ukraine is 440 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,719 Speaker 1: pushing a Russian disinformation campaign, right. This is what the 441 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: Democrats are saying, what Adam Schiff is saying, what the 442 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: media is messaging on this is one hundred percent untrue. 443 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: The problems with Joe Biden come from what Joe Biden 444 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: himself has said. They come from what was reported in 445 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: the New York Times in twenty fifteen regarding Hunter Biden's 446 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: work for a corrupt energy company called Bizma. This is 447 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: not Russian disinformation. These are real things that happened. So 448 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: I don't know if there's an enormous project that they're 449 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: working on right now, or if they're just going to 450 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,959 Speaker 1: keep rolling operation into operation as they've been doing for 451 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: four years. Yeah, it has been amazing. It's been a 452 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: permanent campaign. Yes, you know, Maybee person as vice president 453 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: against Adams would fit as much as any example, or 454 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: maybe Andrew Jackson from eighteen twenty four to eighteen twenty eight. 455 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: The permanent campaigns are not actually part of the American norm. 456 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: Having been shocked by Trump's victory, it's been an all 457 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: out effort to undo it. Right. The reason that I 458 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: call the book the Permanent Coup, it's partly about the 459 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: serial operations targeting the president as well as the American public. 460 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: There's another reason too, and that is because, as we've 461 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: seen over the last few months, Barack Obama had a 462 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: hand in this. What this tells us is that the coup, 463 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: these plots, there was a real purpose. It wasn't just 464 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: a bunch of intelligence bureaucrats at the FBI he said 465 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: let's jam up Trump, right. There was a real purpose, 466 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: and the purpose was to block Trump's agenda right, so 467 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: that he would not undo Obama's policies. So what we're 468 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 1: seeing here is really a struggle for the way our 469 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: country will look in the future, and We've had a 470 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: vision the last four years of what Barack Obama's America 471 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: looks like. It looks like security services working with the 472 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: press to target the regime's enemies. It looks like the 473 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: ruling faction dispatching militias into the street to destroy American cities. 474 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: So that's why I call it a permanent because it's 475 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: not just targeting the president, it's targeting the president's supporters 476 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: as well as a traditional sense of what America is. 477 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: What America stands for, the promotion and protection of individual liberties, 478 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: the sanctity of human life, the centrality of family and community. 479 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: So there's a real struggle going on here, and I 480 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: don't see this struggle ending in November. No matter what happens, 481 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:08,760 Speaker 1: this will continue. Isn't it also clear that if Trump 482 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:13,800 Speaker 1: does win, which I suspect is likely, that the desperation 483 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 1: on the left will be almost beyond containment. Yes, we 484 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 1: have some hard times ahead. One of the things that 485 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: I do in the book is I describe the different 486 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:28,320 Speaker 1: people who are fighting, and this includes Thomressman. Nunez also 487 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: have a rare interview with General Flynn right at the 488 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,760 Speaker 1: end of the book, has inspiring insights conclude the book, 489 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: we think that things have been bad now, and they 490 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: have been They've been very bad. But they will not 491 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: accept a Trump reelection easily. The American public is in 492 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: for more. Well, let me just say that I'm very 493 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: grateful for your persistence and your great work as an 494 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 1: investigative reporter. I think these two books are among the 495 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: most important descriptions of our time, and I'm thrilled that's 496 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: coming out at a perfect moment. I can't thank you 497 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: enough for your kind words, mister speaker. Thanks again, Thank 498 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 1: you to my guests, Lee Smith. You can read more 499 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,240 Speaker 1: about his new book, The Permanent Coup on our show 500 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: page at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Gingwish 501 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producers Debbie Myers, and 502 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 1: our producer is gardensis Load. The artwork for the show 503 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: was created by Steve Penwy Special thanks to the team 504 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 1: at Gingwich three sixty. Please email me with your questions 505 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:48,240 Speaker 1: at Gingwich three sixty dot com slash questions. I'll answer 506 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: them in future episodes. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I 507 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts and both rate us 508 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: with five stars and give us a review so others 509 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:03,919 Speaker 1: can learn what it's all about. It. On the next 510 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 1: episode of Newts World, Our Shut your Mouth The new 511 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:12,360 Speaker 1: Tetolitarians the Left. Series continues with government officials who have 512 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: been silenced. I'm New Gingwich. This is news World.