1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Thank you all for your 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: love and support, and I just want to say, I 3 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: want my baby back in my arms. The desperate cries 4 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 1: of a mother and for this one moment, as painful 5 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: as it is, let yourself go there the mother of 6 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: a six year old autistic boy. They need your help 7 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: and prayers. Tipline seven oh four eight six nine one 8 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 1: zero seven five. There is a ten thousand dollar reward 9 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: seven oh four eight six nine one zero seven five. 10 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: Of course, I'm talking about a beautiful, beautiful little boy 11 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: that goes missing in North Carolina in the woods along 12 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: with his father. The fact that he is non verbal 13 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: and autistic is making is even more difficult for law 14 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: enforcement and FBI that have now been called to the scene. 15 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: In fact, police have gone to the measure of playing 16 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: out recordings of his mother and father calling out his 17 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: name Maddox, Maddox, hoping to lure the boy out of 18 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: the woods, the very dense woods. The search has been 19 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: going on. Joining me right now, Crime Stories, Alan Duke, Alan, 20 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,199 Speaker 1: what happened? This little boy was walking in the park 21 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: with his dad. It's something that Ian Rich, the father, says, 22 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: they do all the time. They were walking around the 23 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: lake in this two hundred and sixty acre park when 24 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: the boy ran ahead, which is not unusual, but he 25 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: kept running, and despite the father calling for him, he 26 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: kept running until he was out of sight. The father then, 27 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: of course, as you could understand, panicked, and the search began. 28 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: Alan listen. I know it may sound far fetched to 29 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: a lot of people, but I've taken David and Lucy 30 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: on hikes and they do run ahead of me, and 31 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: they do circle to being and I get so nervous 32 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: and anxious. I start running and I catch up with him, 33 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: and I hate to say, don't run, don't have fun, 34 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 1: slow down. I hate to be that mom, so I 35 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: try to just keep up with him and keep them 36 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: in sight. The father is eaten up with guilt. Right now. 37 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: Take a listen to the dad. Just this morning with 38 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: our friends at g m A W him got so 39 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: far away from me. I could see him until at 40 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: a certain point he got out of my my view. 41 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: And that's whenever I never seen him again. Everybody looks 42 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: at you as a monster, and I've dreaded that. Since 43 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: the moment it's happened, it's been hard asleep. I feel, 44 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: I feel guilty because I can go into a house 45 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: laid down on a bed and my little boy why 46 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: be out there in the woods. And the FBI has 47 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: clearly said stop posting things all on line that are 48 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 1: detouring their investigation, comparing this to the Chris Watt's case, 49 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: the father that we know murdered his wife. They're saying, 50 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: please stop that that is only detracting from their search. 51 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: And I find that very persuasive coming from the FBI. 52 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: You don't hear that every day from the FBI. Now, 53 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: I want you to brace yourself, take a listen to mommy. 54 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: I just want to thank each and every person who 55 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: has reached out to me about Maddox wanting to help 56 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: find him. I would appreciate it if you were at 57 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: the park Saturday and saw Maddox. So please urgently, please 58 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: call the tip line. Please continue praying for him, because 59 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: I just want my baby home. Please, whatever you can do. 60 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: Maddox is my whole world and my reason from living. 61 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: He's Mama's boy. Maddox loves the park, He loves bouncy balls, 62 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: and he loves his teddy beer. His smile so contagious 63 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 1: and his laughter is so precious. If you think that 64 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: you have seen Maddox, please reach out to police. Thank 65 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 1: you all for your love and support. And I just 66 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: want to say, I want my baby back in my arms. 67 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: You know, Alan, you're a father and I'm a mother, 68 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: and hearing that mother Maddox his mom speaking is I 69 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: can hardly stand to even hear it because I'm thinking 70 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 1: my own children if one of them were lost. For 71 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: those of you just joining us, we're talking about a 72 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: beautiful six year old boy who was non verbal and autistic, 73 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 1: who went running ahead of his dad in a North 74 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: Carolina in a part the ranking lake park like they 75 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: always do, and the dad was calling slow down, slow down, 76 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: hold on, hold on. The boy kept running and then 77 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 1: when the dad got around the band, he didn't see 78 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: the boy and kept looking and looking and looking for 79 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: him and started panicking. And now how long has it been, 80 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: Alan since Mannox disappeared. It was from this weekend and 81 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: the search is huge, sixty acre park. They've expanded it 82 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 1: beyond that. By the way, this is what they're really 83 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: looking for. In particular, if you were at that park 84 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: that day, they saw a professional photographer that they want 85 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: to talk to. Plus they saw a jogger that they've 86 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: not reached. If you know who that might be, called 87 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: the police, and we do have a tipline. Please please 88 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: help us find this boy. You heard his mother and 89 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: father tipline seven zero four eight six nine one zero 90 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: seven five. Go to crime online dot com see Maddox's 91 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: picture find out more about the case. We're doing everything 92 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: and anything we can do to bring the boy home. Allen, 93 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 1: thank you for reporting, but I've got to tell you, 94 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: just hearing the story and thinking about it is literally 95 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: breaking my heart. For those of you that may know anything, 96 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: please call the tip line seven oh four eight, And 97 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: for the rest of us, let's pray that Maddox will 98 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 1: soon be back in his mother's arms, alive and well. 99 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: A beautiful teen girl, a Mississippi cheerleader the apple of 100 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: her appearance, I burned alive. Jessica Chambers spotted by a 101 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: motorist walking limping down the side of the street, totally 102 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: and completely burned. Only the souls of her feet were unscathed. 103 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: In fact, I recall it like it was yesterday. It 104 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: was called death by lighter fluid at first, because the 105 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: inside of her mouth, at her throat going down into 106 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: her lungs was burned black, covered with soot, like someone 107 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: had forced lighter fluid down her mouth into her throat 108 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: and set her on fire, even on the inside. What 109 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: a horrific way for for someone to die, which less 110 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: a teen girl. I Nancy Grace. This is crime stories 111 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: and you better know it. I want justice. Take a 112 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: listen to this. While the murder trial for nineteen year 113 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: old Jessica Chambers was approaching and nearly one year ago, 114 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: the confusion for nearly everyone involved was also quickly coming 115 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: to a boiling point. He might remember back in the 116 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: Chambers was found burned alive on a back road in 117 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: Penola County, Mississippi, and Quentin Talas was charged and her 118 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: dadly thereafter nearly three years had passed and tell us 119 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: to trial in Batesville, Mississippi, But by the end of 120 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:11,679 Speaker 1: the actual trial a mistrial had been declared. This after 121 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: the jury failed to reach a unanimous verdict. You might 122 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: remember inside the courthouse last October, we told you jurors 123 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: on the case initially returned to the courtroom on judgment 124 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: day to announce a verdict, but when asked if all 125 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: jurors were in agreement, the jury foreman told the judge no, 126 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 1: and that's when they were sent back to continue deliberations. 127 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: About twenty minutes later, the jury came back a second 128 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: time and said a verdict had been reached. It was 129 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,719 Speaker 1: initially announced that couldn't tell us was found not guilty, 130 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: but the jurors did not agree on that verdict when 131 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: individually asked by the judge. Then, after the judge sent 132 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: the jury back two more times to deliberate, they finally 133 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: returned before the end of the day. When they were 134 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: in the judge that a unanimous decision regarding Quinn tells 135 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: his charges could not be made, resulting in a mistrial. 136 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: That's my friends at Fox. Scott maddis joining me right now, 137 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 1: our investigative reporters, Shane Dieter. Shane, let's start at the beginning. 138 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: Cops were called to the scene after a motorist spots 139 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: this teen girl limping along the side of the road 140 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 1: against all odds. I mean, the reality is she should 141 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: have been dead in that car because the car was 142 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: burned to a crisp. What do we know, Shane, Let's 143 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: go back to the first moment when first responders arrived 144 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: that they responded out there, they found Jessica severely burned, 145 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: barely alive. Some first responders went to render aid. There. 146 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: There was testimony in the first trial that she whisper 147 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 1: whispered someone name, and that has been the one of 148 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: the biggest contentions in this trial from the beginning. Or 149 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: in this case, UM the d a John Champion saying 150 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: that she whispered Eric. Others are saying that she whispered 151 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: a different name, and uh, I don't hold on right there? 152 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: How to Dr Jeanne gorniatt joined me. Fulton County Medical Examiner. 153 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,959 Speaker 1: Dr Gornia, thank you so much for being with us. 154 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: The man that we believe is responsible for the murder 155 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: of Jessica Chambers is a man named Quentin tell Us. 156 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: How do they know with her throat burned and covered 157 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: in soot, her mouth black on the inside, she died. 158 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: She could hardly speak, She was hardly alive. How do 159 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: we know she wasn't trying to say tell Us not Eric. 160 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: I mean, she couldn't even speak. Dr Gordiat, you're absolutely 161 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: right to um. When someone has that severe of thermal 162 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: injuries within their airway, breathing, get alone speaking. I can 163 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: only imagine how difficult that would that would be um. 164 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 1: But I have had a case a few years ago 165 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: where kind of similar lady was set on fire and 166 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: she was able to tell the person who found her 167 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: and say, say a name. So as unbelievable as it is, 168 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: I really truly believe that people's will to live um 169 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: and to tell their story. UM. We try to say, 170 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: as frendic pepalg is that we give a voice to 171 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: the voice list, but sometimes they tell their stories, unfortunately 172 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: before they die. But like you're saying, we don't know 173 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: what they said, we're only um speculating or that's what 174 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: we heard, But do we really know that's what she said? 175 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: You know? With me? In addition to Dr Jane Gorni 176 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: att Holton County Medical Examer's Office, it's psychologists out of 177 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: New York. Lauren Howard, Jeven, I'll judge and lawyer, founder 178 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: of child crime watch dot com. Ashley Wilcot, renowned death investigator, 179 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, the professor forensics at Jacksonville State University, 180 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet and reporting today on 181 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: Jessica Chambers is Shane die Diert. You know Joseph's got Morgan. 182 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: I know we all remember when oh J. Simpson, Oriental 183 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: James Simpson got in front of the dream. This was 184 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: the state's fault totally. And I don't like throwing a 185 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: stone of the state. But you never ever ever perform 186 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: a demonstration that you have not practiced. And the main 187 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: thing you don't do is hand your evidence over to 188 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: the one person most likely to manipulate it, the defendant. 189 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: Do you remember Joe's got Morgan when O. J. Simpson 190 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: held up the glove and pretended it didn't fit. Remember that? 191 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,959 Speaker 1: And then all the focus took was off, all the 192 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 1: blood evidence, the circumstantial evidence, the direct evidence was off 193 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,559 Speaker 1: that his suicide attempt, that running from police, who was 194 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: from police? If I didn't do it, none of that mattered, 195 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: because if it didn't fit, they wouldn't quit. And in 196 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: this case, there is a mountain of evidence, including cell records, 197 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: that could tell us with her right up until the 198 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: time she's killed. And everybody's focused on did she say 199 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: eric or tell us it's killing? Redirect? Redirect, redirect, And 200 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 1: in in this particular case, there is a mountain, a 201 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: mountain of physical evidence that leads back to this person. Uh, 202 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,719 Speaker 1: and it's it's it's an it should you know, a 203 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: first appearance. It shouldn't be a two difficult hill for 204 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: the prosecution to claim. I mean to climb, but you 205 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: know you're talking about you're talking about did she or 206 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: did she not whisper this name Eric? And in the 207 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: state that the doctor had mentioned just a moment ago, 208 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: where this superheated air had traveled into her lungs and 209 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 1: nasal passages? How she even able to effectively communicate? Who 210 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: can really say of Jessica actually did say? Well, I 211 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: want you to hear what Jessica's father, Ben Chambers tells me. 212 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: Do you remember the moment when you heard your daughter 213 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: was a fire victim? Oh, yes, ma'am, real man, it's 214 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: just like it was yesterday, you know it was. I 215 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: just didn't want to believe it at first when they 216 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: called me, you know, I thought maybe, uh, you know, 217 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: she was just just a little bit, you know, didn't 218 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: uh didn't. I couldn't imagine the scale it was, you know. 219 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: And I asked Barry, was she okay? And you know, 220 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: and he got real solid and uh he said, no, man, 221 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: she she was not. And asked when my whole world 222 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: feel you know, where were you, Mr Chambers when you 223 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: learned I would just come home from MEMPHISO. We had 224 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: been Christmas shopping or whatever that day. We hadn't been 225 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: home maybe ten minutes more when he called. And what 226 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: did you do him? Uh? He uh told me he 227 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: wouldn't tell me he's actually where it was at. Do 228 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: you want me to stay there at the house and 229 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: to share and him come to my house? In about 230 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: five minutes they was at the house and uh, he 231 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: told me, you know how bad she was burnt. And 232 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: they was flying her to Memphis. And a matter of fact, 233 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: when we were standing out in the yard, to helicopter 234 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: come over to pick her up, and so I took 235 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: off to Memphis. We beat the helicopter to Memphis, which 236 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: is only about fifty some miles from my house. We 237 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: beat We beat the helicopter there, you know. And let 238 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:38,359 Speaker 1: me ask you something. I just went through that flying 239 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: driving as fast as I could to get to my 240 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: father before he passed away. What do you remember about 241 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: that drive to try to get to your daughter. Uh? 242 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: It was just, you know, I was just steady, free 243 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: in the Lord it should be okay, you know. Uh, 244 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: and what you know, just begging her, you know, just 245 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: not tak her you know, because I just I just 246 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: lost my son in a year before she got killed, 247 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: you know, and uh uh just you know, my my 248 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: whole world just shut down, you know, wait on the 249 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: doctors and seemed like it was the attorning to you know. 250 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: Uh and no idea doctor, the doctor come out. He 251 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: shouldn't dot thefore you was bad. You're hearing Ben Chambers 252 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: speaking to me about discovering his daughter had been a 253 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: fire victim. I'm talking about a teen girl, Jessica Chambers, 254 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: and Mississippi cheerleader, who was found wandering by the side 255 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: of the road, totally totally burned. Joining me Lauren Howard, 256 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: Dr Jane Gorniac, Ashley Wilcott just got Morgan and Shane 257 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: and die dirt. Ashley Wilcott. It's just so much for 258 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: me to even take in, you know, not long ago. 259 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 1: And I call it thank goodness. We had insurance is 260 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: seven hundred dollars. Splinter. Lucy had a splinter on her 261 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: foot and she absolutely that I would throw a big 262 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: fit when I tried to get it out with a needle. 263 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: Nothing would do. Okay, She's the same way when we 264 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: try to give her a shot. She was screaming her 265 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,120 Speaker 1: hand off the other day and she got the flu shot. 266 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: I said, Lucy, it's over, the shot has already happened, 267 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: and she was still going. Long story short, I had 268 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: to take her to an e m T. Because I 269 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: couldn't stand to put the needle in her toe for 270 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: thirty seconds to get the splinter out, and of course 271 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: not e m T emergency, you know, doc in a box. 272 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: Excuse me, Dr Jane Gournia. I'm sure that's extremely offensive 273 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: to everyone that's slaved for like eleven years of medical school. Okay, 274 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: So so seven hundred plus dollars, thank you Lord for insurance. Okay, 275 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,719 Speaker 1: but I still use a seven figure to Lucy when 276 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: I catch her walking around without chueser socks on. So 277 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: that's I had that reaction just to trying to get 278 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: a splinter out of her darn toe. And this father 279 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 1: learns his daughter's flesh. She was burned alive, Ashley. So 280 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: not only that, First of all, he had people calling him, 281 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: he says, calling him and saying they lit her on fire. 282 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: They lit her on fire. Second of all, you've got 283 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 1: first responders who said how horrific it was to see 284 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 1: her literally walking towards them completely burned, hair, burned off. 285 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: Can you even imagine? And then there's even a firefighter 286 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 1: who was a first responder who said being a firefighter 287 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: was his lifetong dream and after this he quit. He 288 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 1: said he couldn't do it. It was that horrible. Now 289 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: imagine being that child's father. You should never never lose 290 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: a nineteen year old child, but especially by means at 291 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: somebody's hands, where they do this to a person. The 292 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: father being Chambers, just gribing the desperate, desperate attempt to 293 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: get to the hospital. Take a listen to him speaking 294 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:10,640 Speaker 1: to me on h l M. When you finally run 295 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: in the hospital, you're running up and down the halls, 296 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: you're trying to find her. You get there before the 297 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: airlift brings her there, and you finally see her. What 298 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: did you see? Well? I didn't I didn't get to 299 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: see her right then. You know that it was two 300 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: hours before we uh got to go back there, you know, 301 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: And the doctor come out and hey, tell me, said 302 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: Mr Chambers, she don't want to see your doughor right 303 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 1: to Yes, I do, He said, No, you don't recognizable. 304 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 1: You know, you know you don't recognize uh, you know, 305 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: he said, you've never seen somebody. It's that bad could 306 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: live as long as she did. She had a strong heart. 307 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: I mean ship and no names or nothing, uh where 308 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: they can even for the vs in or nothing. You know, 309 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: Mr Chambers, did you get to speak to her before 310 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 1: she went to happen? No? No, not did you get 311 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: to see her? I know? No, she is if we 312 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: got ready to go into the room or whatever. My 313 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: sister and her mother, Lisa walk in the rooms and 314 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: to see they was in there maybe about thirty seconds 315 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: and she passed away. I can tell you this, Mr Chambers. 316 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 1: I believe with all of my heart that she knew 317 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 1: that you were there. You are hearing Jessica's father, Been Chambers, 318 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: describing what he went through, racing like mad to get 319 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 1: to the hospital to see his daughter after he learns 320 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: that she is burned. She's a fire victim. Me. Here's 321 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: the helicopters overhead, and those are the helicopters airlifting Jessica 322 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: to the hospital. What monster did this to her? You know, 323 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: Lauren Howard, I'm picking up on him talking about the 324 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: helicopter going over him while he's standing in his front yard. 325 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 1: Then putting the pieces together to realize that his daughter 326 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: was in that helicopter being airlifted to try to save 327 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 1: her life. She died. Lauren Howard, you're the therapist, Lauren, 328 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: joining us from Manhattan. Lauren, why is it that little 329 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 1: details like that stick in your mind? I remember a 330 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: lot of small details and they stand out, you know, 331 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: as big as a pyramid when I look back on 332 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: my fiance's murderer, my father passing away. Why is that 333 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 1: when you're in the moment, when it's happening, there is 334 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: a true sense of unreality because it is so UNREALI 335 00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: this is you know, we we go through life managing petitions, 336 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 1: and when things occur that are completely unexpected, we are 337 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: in an out of reality moment. And so when you're 338 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: in the moment, you don't have the experience. It's it's 339 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: your adrenaline is pumping You're literally it's your body is 340 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: is drugging you into surviving the moment. So you the 341 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: necessity to recall in memory what occurred and to go 342 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 1: over every fine detail to see to try to you 343 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: want to feel the feeling that you were not able 344 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: to feel when it was occurring. I mean, this, this 345 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: is such an unreality. There's no way anyone could ever 346 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 1: anticipate the moment where they are searching for their daughter 347 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: who's in a helicopter our head, who someone set on fire. 348 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: I mean, you can't possibly prepare for that moment, you, 349 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: Lauren Howard. I got to interrupt you just a moment 350 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: because as usually I always ask my guests, who are 351 00:22:55,359 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 1: all these experts uh private personal information about myself? So 352 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: can I ask you questions? You know? Very often after 353 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: we do our program, I have to go and get 354 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: in the car and drive to school as fie on 355 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: the children. I know which one is their window from 356 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: the street. I have to go over there and try. 357 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: I try to be um secretive and cloak and daggers 358 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: and they don't see Mommy staring in with a big 359 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: set up an OCRs. I get so nutted up hearing 360 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: all this. I have to go spy on them now, 361 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: you know. They they stay weighed at me on the 362 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: way to the playground because they see me sitting there 363 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,719 Speaker 1: in the parking lot. Because I just get so overwhelmed 364 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: hearing all this. What is that? Well, it's now you've 365 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: been Now, your sense of reality has been You're now 366 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: you're questioning now the idea of a person being set 367 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 1: on fire is no longer an unreality because you have 368 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: you're working on a case, and you see that this occurred. 369 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: Therefore it has the potential for reality. And so we 370 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 1: often say instead of why me, why not me? Why 371 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: couldn't the horrible things that I learned about in the 372 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: course of my work happened to me, to my family, 373 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: to my children. So your need is to to be 374 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: grounded in that this is not occurring in your reality. 375 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: And and you know this is I mean this fireman 376 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: who stopped working as a fireman as a result of this. 377 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 1: This is what happened for anyone in the medical profession, 378 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: in the news profession, anyone who is experiencing or being 379 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 1: exposed to severe trauma. I mean New Yorkers believe that 380 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: planes can fly into buildings. Now, they didn't think that 381 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: before nine eleven. So when they look above them and 382 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: there's a plane flying into La Guardian, it's really low. 383 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: There is that second of a fear about it because 384 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: it's no longer a non reality. So I mean, it's 385 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: you know, I just babysat from my granddaughter this weekend, 386 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: and I was up all night just going in and 387 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 1: looking in her crib to make stunctional breathing. I mean, 388 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: what is that? When it's eight months? Is one of 389 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: those terms for something necessary but boring. Your blinds you 390 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: don't even think about them unless you move or they break. 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Rules and restrictions do apply. 417 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: During last year's first trial, nearly a dozen first responders 418 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: many emotion testifying Chambers told them a man named Eric 419 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 1: or Derek committed the crime before she died. She had 420 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: her arms out, was coming towards me, saying help me, 421 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: help me help. That was a major sticking point for 422 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 1: tell US's defense attorneys, who argued that admission proved authorities 423 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: had the wrong person on trial. Miss Chambers did not 424 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 1: say Quentin set her on fire. She just did not 425 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: say that, and we cannot ignore that. But Nola County 426 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: District Attorney John Champion said at trial he believed tell 427 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: Us suffocated Chambers before setting her car on fire to 428 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: cover up evidence. Champion also argued phone correspondence could tell 429 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: us with Chambers the night were death. When he's confronted 430 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: with the physical evidence, the cell phone data, there was 431 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: no way out for him. You are hearing our friends 432 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: at a local Memphis dot com talking about the first 433 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,919 Speaker 1: trial of the man accused of burning teen cheerleader Jessica 434 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 1: Chambers to death. His name Quentin tell Us. Quentin tell 435 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 1: Us with a very very long rap sheet now wanted 436 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: in connection with the murder of another young girl in Louisiana, 437 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: a graduate student that's on hold as he faces retrial 438 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 1: in the burning death, the so called lighter fluid murder 439 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: of this teen girl, Jessica Chambers. The evidence unfolding in 440 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: a court right now on retrial. It's happening right now 441 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: that tell Us had been badgering this girl for sex, 442 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: and in their text messages it's revealed she goes no, no, no, no, no, 443 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: over and over and over. Cell Phone records place him 444 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: with her on and out off throughout the day leading 445 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: up to the time of her death. At that time, 446 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 1: cell phone records place him going to his home. Surveillance 447 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: video shows his sister's car going to his home where 448 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: we know by his admission he has a shed where 449 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: he keeps a gas can full of gas. Then the 450 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: car leaves his home within two minutes after pulling in 451 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: and heads in the direction of the fire where Jessica 452 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: is murdered. The working theory is that after raping her, 453 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: he strangles her, then decides to destroy the evidence, comes 454 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: back and finds it. She's somewhat still alive. He had 455 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: just strangled her to unconsciousness, and then he gets rid 456 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: of the evidence by burning her alive. That's the state's 457 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: working theory. I want it, and I wanted in a nutshell, 458 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: Shane Deeter, tell me the facts. See the this whole 459 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: thing comes down to the name Eric or Derek in 460 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: his name being quitten. You played the clip with his attorney. 461 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: There were several first responders on the scene who said 462 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: that she whispered, whispered to them Eric, and that to 463 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: be is where the whole thing, uh terms, is the 464 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: defense using this as you've talked about. She was burned 465 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: so bad? Was there really a way for her too, 466 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: you know, say something? Or was she just trying to 467 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: make noise? Uh? The director of the Emergency Operations in 468 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: DeSoto County. Daniel Co testified that he wasn't for sure 469 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: what she said because they were behind the fire truck 470 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: and the scene was so loud and chaotic, But a 471 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: couple of hours after the incident when he wrote his report, 472 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: he didn't put that in it. Then she said, Eric 473 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: set me on fire. I want to talk about the 474 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: phone records in this case, his surveillance video and the 475 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 1: fact that Quentin tell Us changes his story over and 476 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: over and over. Let me go to you, Ashley Wilcott, 477 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: describe your understanding of the phone records combined with his 478 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: changing stories. So let's start with his changing stories. And that, 479 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: to me is one of the most telling things in 480 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: this case, because he waffled in his statements more than once. 481 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: He did things, he gave alibis, all of which, by 482 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: the way, Nancy fell through. Every one of his alibis 483 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: for that night fell through. And so as he changes 484 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: his stories, and he says, for instance, we had sex 485 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: in the car and the backseat passenger seat was all 486 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: the way back, and he said that happened probably two 487 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: weeks before she was burned in a car. Will lo 488 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 1: and behold, guess what the burned car the seat was 489 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: reclined and the same position that he does scribe but 490 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: said it had happened two weeks before, So there are 491 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: too many inconsistencies. Now add that to the phone records. 492 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: There were multiple multiple texts from him to Jessica basically 493 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: wanting to have sex with her, and her response were 494 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: things that would be interpreted by anyone I know as no, 495 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: thank you, and I think one of the responses was 496 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: oh lord. But if you read all the texts, clearly 497 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,239 Speaker 1: she was rejecting him or saying no and didn't want 498 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: to have sex with him. So you add all that 499 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: together and it does not pass the smell tests. Well, 500 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: I don't understand, um, why, as she's been saying no, no, no, no, no, 501 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: suddenly she capitulates that particular evening and ends up dead. 502 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense to me. One thing testimony revealed 503 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: is that Quentin tell Us changed clothes that evening and 504 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: put on a brand new set of clothes when he 505 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: was caught on security camera that evening at Fred's Dollar 506 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: Store in Bates, phil about eight or any um. That's 507 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 1: when he was buying a cash card from a girlfriend 508 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: in Louisiana. I wonder if that's the girl they claim 509 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: he killed. But as it relates to this case, Dr 510 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: Jan Gorney at if you have set somebody on fire 511 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: with gasoline, that smell would be all on your clothes, 512 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: would it not. Nancy, you're correct. We will be able 513 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: to smell an accelerant. You can't actually say it's lighter 514 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 1: fluid or gasoline or anything like that. But we we 515 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: know the smell of gasoline or lighter fluid. But we 516 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: would just describe it as a smell of a possible 517 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: accelerant on the close and then take those clothes and 518 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: preserve them. So um the fire department or the climb 519 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: lab contest to see what accelerant was actually. Take a 520 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: listen to our friend Brad Borders at Local Memphis dot com. 521 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: Clip seven conflicting emotions in Chatons last October very hunjury 522 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: and mistrial in the Jessica Chambers murder case. Now nearly 523 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: a year later, prosecutors get a second chance to convince 524 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: a different jury to convict Chambers accused killer, twenty nine 525 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: year old Quentin tell Us, who maintains his innocence. First 526 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: responders found the nineteen year old Chambers burnt staggering in 527 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: barely aligned near her charred card. December six in Courtland, Mississippi, 528 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: sixty miles south of Memphis, a grand jury indicted tell 529 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: Us in fourteen months after the crime. What was this 530 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: person wearing when I say her? She had nothing on 531 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 1: him with her pats And what did you tell me? 532 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: You did? You? You got a blanket? I got out 533 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: and I got a blanket, and she had her arms out, 534 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 1: was coming towards me saying, help me, help me, help me, Nicole. 535 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: I want you to describe for this jury what type 536 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: of what did she look like? What was the condition 537 00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 1: of Jessica Chambers? Her hair was her hair was fried 538 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 1: out like she's stuck in the light socket, and she 539 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 1: had black all over her face. Her body was severely burned, 540 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: and just all the way down her body was was 541 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 1: it was very badly burned, and proceeded a layer down 542 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 1: on the ground. She reached out for I Am. I 543 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 1: held him into her hand and I talked to her 544 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: and I asked her her name, and she said what 545 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 1: come out like I said all her mouth inside her 546 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: mouth was just charred black. And could not understand her 547 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: very well at all. Were you able to get a 548 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: name when I asked her her name. She said Jessica Chambers, 549 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:29,840 Speaker 1: and like I said, she was not recognizable to me. 550 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,839 Speaker 1: I hope what Jessica Chambers looked like did not look 551 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: like Jessica Chambers at the time. Now, describe her voice 552 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 1: for the jury. How is it coming out when you 553 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 1: were talking to her? It was very gargled and just dry. 554 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I was. I was face to 555 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:59,840 Speaker 1: face with her, and she uh, Like I said, you 556 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: could you could barely understand her. And she she kept 557 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:11,240 Speaker 1: asking for water, and and I knew in my mind 558 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,399 Speaker 1: she didn't need water. I knew that was not the best, 559 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,319 Speaker 1: you know, not to give her water. Held her hand 560 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:26,840 Speaker 1: beside her and aster what happened, and she told me 561 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: she said I would set on fire again. It was 562 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 1: her voice clear, it was not not clear. Like I said, 563 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:44,439 Speaker 1: you know, some words come. You were able to tell 564 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 1: what they were plainly, but it was not clear, if 565 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 1: that makes sense. Did you ask her who did this? Her? 566 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 1: I asked her, I said, who did this? She tried 567 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:04,240 Speaker 1: to say it. I cannot understand that you are hearing 568 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 1: testimony from far Chief Cole Haley testifying at her first 569 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,439 Speaker 1: trial about what he saw and her at the same 570 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: where Jessica Chambers was found burned alive. The major evidence 571 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:23,320 Speaker 1: in this case is going to be cell phone data. Also, 572 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 1: they're going to be looking at the medical examiners report 573 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 1: Dr Jeanne Gorniac with a body burned to the degree 574 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: Jessica's body was burned. Will they be able to get 575 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: DNA to determine if she were raped? Yes, there's a 576 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 1: possibility they can still get that. That that specimen UM 577 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 1: because doing a swab of the mouth actually you said 578 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 1: there could be some slight or fluid or burns to 579 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: the mouth. UM. We do anal swabs, we can do 580 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 1: a vaginal swab, and so as long as she's not 581 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,840 Speaker 1: burned inside, UM, we should still be well too obtained 582 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,760 Speaker 1: some specimens that could um lead to a sexual assault 583 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,239 Speaker 1: or even not, or even injuries we can look at 584 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:13,240 Speaker 1: at injuries UM. Once again that as experts in injury interpretation, 585 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,759 Speaker 1: sometimes it's difficult with burns. But if they're not, if 586 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,800 Speaker 1: she's not charred and it's the first or second, you know, 587 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 1: possibly third degree burns UM in that area, we'll be 588 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: able to determine if there's any other lacerations or tears 589 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: that suggests a sexual assault had occurred. It's our understanding 590 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 1: that the arsenal attacked the burning of Jessica Chambers happened 591 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,520 Speaker 1: in the vicinity of seven thirty to eight thirty. The 592 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 1: last phone call or text at Jessica ever made a 593 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 1: card at six that's about forty minutes before she's attacked. Now, 594 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 1: according to his own statement, Quentin tell Us says they 595 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,880 Speaker 1: were together up until that point in time, nearly seven 596 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 1: o clock, so too, Ashley Wilcott, Am I supposed to believe? Now? 597 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,960 Speaker 1: And then after that, video surveillance shows him going to 598 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,600 Speaker 1: his home and his sister's car, where he keeps a 599 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 1: gas can in the shed. He's only at the home 600 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,719 Speaker 1: less than two minutes, comes right back out of the 601 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,880 Speaker 1: driveway and drives off toward her car, where it was 602 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 1: later found on fire. Okay, we know he keeps gas 603 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 1: and a gas can there. Am I supposed to believe 604 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:33,800 Speaker 1: Ashley that between six and seven thirty some other person 605 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:39,440 Speaker 1: comes and finds her in an obscure spot in the 606 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,400 Speaker 1: woods and sets her on fire. Somebody else did it, 607 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,920 Speaker 1: and then he runs home and changes clothes and we 608 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 1: won't smell like gasoline. No, this is what we know 609 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 1: in court a circumstantial evidence, and when you put all 610 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,320 Speaker 1: the evidence together to prove that between that timeline he 611 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:54,880 Speaker 1: had to have been the one to do it, I 612 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,319 Speaker 1: think the prosecution can successfully argue that. I think it's 613 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,399 Speaker 1: unreasonable and unrealist stick to believe that in that very 614 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,759 Speaker 1: short time frame you've just discovered that six to seven 615 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 1: thirty that no, he he was doing something else, and 616 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,800 Speaker 1: all the facts add up in this case so that 617 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: the circumstantial evidence, I think will prove that he did this. 618 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:18,120 Speaker 1: Back to Shane data reporting on the case, what more 619 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 1: do we know? What do we know about the Louisiana 620 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 1: Martyr and then we know that that is a woman 621 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: that he was having a relationship with. We know that 622 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,960 Speaker 1: he took her bank card and that he used her 623 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:37,360 Speaker 1: bank card. So that case has been put on hold 624 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 1: until this trial here with Jessica Chambers is settled. He 625 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 1: is also in prison for five years in Mississippi on 626 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 1: an unrelated burglary charge. So Quentin has been in quite 627 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,120 Speaker 1: a bit of trouble before. So that's certainly one way 628 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: to put it. Because when I the question to her father, 629 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,799 Speaker 1: I want you to hear what he tells me. We're 630 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:10,360 Speaker 1: talking about Jessica Chambers soaked in fuel like gasoline in 631 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,640 Speaker 1: her car on a rural road, set on fire, and 632 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: left for dead. She stumbled to a roadside ditch before 633 00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:22,279 Speaker 1: she was spotted by a motorist to cause one The 634 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:28,439 Speaker 1: fire that engulfed her ended up being so incredibly hot 635 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:35,080 Speaker 1: it turned her black Kia Rio completely white. It incinerated 636 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:42,760 Speaker 1: her clothes, and it blinded her. Speaking of his record, 637 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,520 Speaker 1: listen to what her dad been, Chambers tells me, on 638 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 1: che do you tell me your reaction when you learned 639 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:56,520 Speaker 1: that a guy had been apprehended. He has been apprehended, 640 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 1: you know, and I'm so glad they called him. You know, 641 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:06,080 Speaker 1: it's admitted swet for what My whole problem is, why 642 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 1: was he down the street? He should have ever been 643 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:12,360 Speaker 1: as the jail, you know, the crabs, he was committed 644 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,320 Speaker 1: in the thing that why he was in through that 645 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,880 Speaker 1: he should have never been out. He only got out 646 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,200 Speaker 1: of prison in October, and he killed my daughter and 647 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,640 Speaker 1: the like. He should have never been on the street. 648 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:28,719 Speaker 1: That's my problem. I don't understand it. I don't understand 649 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,719 Speaker 1: your service in server a year and and uh at 650 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:38,800 Speaker 1: three years before that, you know, Mr Chambers, I don't 651 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,279 Speaker 1: know why. I don't know why he was out, but 652 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,120 Speaker 1: I can promise you this, I'm gonna stay on this 653 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:51,680 Speaker 1: until this trial is done, and God willing, until justice 654 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:56,520 Speaker 1: has served. The retrial of Quentin tell Us going on. Now. 655 00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:03,960 Speaker 1: You have categorically denied it that this happened. Did anything happen. No, 656 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:10,040 Speaker 1: I've never sexually assaulted anyone, not in high school, not ever. 657 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 1: I've always treated women with dignity and respect. Listen to 658 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,680 Speaker 1: the people who have known me best through my whole life. 659 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 1: The woman who have known me since high school, who 660 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:25,560 Speaker 1: overnight signed a letter from high school saying I always 661 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,759 Speaker 1: treated them with dignity and respect. What is real? What 662 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:34,600 Speaker 1: is not real. One of the most significant roles of 663 00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:40,000 Speaker 1: a president, believe it or not, is naming Supreme Court justices, 664 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 1: because those nine judges who are on the bids for life, 665 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 1: for life. It's not a four year and an eight 666 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:54,320 Speaker 1: year term, it's for life, will shape the future of 667 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:59,560 Speaker 1: our jurisprudence. In other words, what those nine people determine 668 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,800 Speaker 1: change our lives forever. You were just hearing the Supreme 669 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:09,600 Speaker 1: Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh categorically denying ever sex assaulted anyone 670 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:13,799 Speaker 1: in high school or college or ever. So where did 671 00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,200 Speaker 1: these women come from? Are they telling the truth? How 672 00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,480 Speaker 1: do they mysteriously appear at the time of the Supreme 673 00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,640 Speaker 1: Court proceedings? Well? Could it be because they never wanted 674 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:27,000 Speaker 1: to speak up before? Or they conjured up by his 675 00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:32,120 Speaker 1: political opponents? What is the truth? Let's start with the facts. 676 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,239 Speaker 1: Joining me syndicated talk to your host, Dave Matt. Dave Matt, 677 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,320 Speaker 1: how did the whole thing start? We heard nothing about 678 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:43,160 Speaker 1: these attacks until Kavanaugh was named by Trump as his 679 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,840 Speaker 1: pick for Supreme Court judge. What do we know what 680 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:51,160 Speaker 1: happened then? Well, we know that the first accuser, Christine Ford, 681 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,400 Speaker 1: actually sent a letter to Diane Feinstein a couple of 682 00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:58,760 Speaker 1: months ago, and that's where the first, the first ground 683 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:03,600 Speaker 1: swell began with her accusation. Um leaving this most recent 684 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,120 Speaker 1: article with Ronan Pharaoh off to the side for just 685 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,959 Speaker 1: a minute. These types of accusations, Nancy, are made after 686 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:12,920 Speaker 1: what thirty five years? And I know that some women 687 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,479 Speaker 1: don't come forward, and I get that I'm the father 688 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,800 Speaker 1: of two daughters. But the reality here is nothing is 689 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,360 Speaker 1: said about this guy until he becomes a Supreme Court nominee. 690 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:28,000 Speaker 1: And in MS Ford's commentary and the witnesses, she says, 691 00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,800 Speaker 1: we're they're they're all saying we weren't there, it didn't happen. 692 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,840 Speaker 1: So the only reason we're even talking about this is 693 00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,360 Speaker 1: because of the media driving this boat and liberals hopping 694 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,640 Speaker 1: on board to damage a guy who apparently has done 695 00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:43,920 Speaker 1: nothing wrong. Hold on just a moment, Dave matt, I 696 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,960 Speaker 1: don't know what program you think you're on. Okay, I 697 00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,560 Speaker 1: don't have an opinion politically on this. I'm not a 698 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,160 Speaker 1: Republican and I'm not a Democrat. But what I am 699 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,560 Speaker 1: as a crime victim that wants the truth, all right, 700 00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:01,120 Speaker 1: So don't jump up with me telling me that to 701 00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,840 Speaker 1: suggest this was all conjured up and we don't know. 702 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,520 Speaker 1: Excuse me, Dave McK but have you heard the testimony? 703 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,880 Speaker 1: Oh wait, it hasn't started yet, But I've read and 704 00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:13,759 Speaker 1: I've listened to the commentary from those you've read. What. 705 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,360 Speaker 1: Let's be clear, I am not a Republican, I'm not 706 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,319 Speaker 1: a Democrat, and actually it's sure sounds like you are. 707 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,960 Speaker 1: You know what does Let's just let's back it up. 708 00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,440 Speaker 1: Let's back it up and talk about what the facts 709 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:30,840 Speaker 1: and we are that we know of Okay two, Wendy Patrick. 710 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:37,120 Speaker 1: We know that Trump nominates Kavanaugh to sit on the 711 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:42,320 Speaker 1: Supreme Court. We know after that, Christine Blasi Ford comes forward. 712 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,080 Speaker 1: We know that she is a mother, she has a job, 713 00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:50,399 Speaker 1: she has a lot, she's a professor. She's never heard 714 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,960 Speaker 1: from her before, and no trouble. Seemingly a happy, normal 715 00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:58,520 Speaker 1: person comes forward and says, what what is her claim? 716 00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,440 Speaker 1: Wendy patcheck, let's to start with that. So she came 717 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,440 Speaker 1: forward and basically claimed that thirty six years ago, she 718 00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,480 Speaker 1: and Kavana were at the same party. She left the 719 00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,640 Speaker 1: main room to walk to the bathroom. Kavanaugh came into 720 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,720 Speaker 1: the room with another of his friend's named Mike Judge. 721 00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,560 Speaker 1: Kavanaugh supposedly pushed her on the bed and was trying 722 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,640 Speaker 1: to remove her clothing while Mike Judge egged him on. 723 00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,000 Speaker 1: But there were more details than that, Nancy. There was 724 00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,680 Speaker 1: details about turning up music in case she's screaming, Kavanaugh 725 00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,959 Speaker 1: putting his hand over her mouth. These are the allegations 726 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:31,000 Speaker 1: she made, and she didn't just make them. Apparently some 727 00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,799 Speaker 1: of this came out during a therapy session years ago, 728 00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,600 Speaker 1: but Kavanaugh's name surfaced recently in connection with the letters 729 00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,360 Speaker 1: she sent to Diane Einstein, the Senator. But Nancy, that 730 00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,800 Speaker 1: is where we start an investigation. What Thursday is for 731 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:50,640 Speaker 1: is to actually test this history and to allow Judge 732 00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:53,400 Speaker 1: Kavanaugh at least some modicum of due process to be 733 00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,520 Speaker 1: able to respond, because he's basically in a position of 734 00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:58,640 Speaker 1: trying to prove a negative, proving he didn't do it, 735 00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:01,040 Speaker 1: whereas you and I know in a criminal court he 736 00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,560 Speaker 1: wouldn't have a burden of proof. But those were the 737 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:07,360 Speaker 1: initial allegations that have really taken us to where we 738 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,080 Speaker 1: are today, to giving both she and Judge Cavanaugh an 739 00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,839 Speaker 1: opportunity to address this in front of the Senate. Well, 740 00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:18,879 Speaker 1: I don't believe her, and I don't believe him. Uh. Conversely, 741 00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,520 Speaker 1: I believe her and I believe him. My mind is 742 00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:26,479 Speaker 1: totally open on this. Now. I'm coming from a point 743 00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:30,200 Speaker 1: of view where I'm a crime victim. I've represented sex 744 00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,640 Speaker 1: assault victims in the past. The fact that she her 745 00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:37,879 Speaker 1: story is rich in detail suggests that it's true. Um, 746 00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,880 Speaker 1: the fact that she's waited all these years to come 747 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:45,440 Speaker 1: forward suggests that it's false. However, I know that victims 748 00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:49,120 Speaker 1: very often never come forward, and they don't say anything 749 00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,200 Speaker 1: until they feel like they have to. Who is Christine 750 00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:56,520 Speaker 1: Margaret Blasi Ford? Okay, She's born nineteen sixty six. She's 751 00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:00,759 Speaker 1: known professionally as Christine Blasi. She is uh ecologist and 752 00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:06,520 Speaker 1: professor of statistics at Palo Alto University. She has published 753 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:10,520 Speaker 1: in her fields. She specializes in designing statistical models for 754 00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:15,279 Speaker 1: research projects. She has worked as a research psychologist for Stanford. 755 00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:20,520 Speaker 1: It goes on and on and on. She's alleging this 756 00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:25,239 Speaker 1: sex assault a card in nineteen two. What more do 757 00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:28,560 Speaker 1: we know about her? We know that she has a 758 00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,719 Speaker 1: stellar professional life. We also know she lives with her 759 00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,719 Speaker 1: husband that she married in two thousand two. She's got 760 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:42,320 Speaker 1: two sons. Um. We know that she is a registered Democrat. 761 00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:48,520 Speaker 1: We know that she has protested Trump. What does that 762 00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:51,920 Speaker 1: mean to me? Does that mean she's telling the truth 763 00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,400 Speaker 1: or has she been plucked out of obscurity to make 764 00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:59,000 Speaker 1: this claim. I'm curious about the the guy that was 765 00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:02,000 Speaker 1: the alleged witness. Back to you, Dave mac who is 766 00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,759 Speaker 1: might judge that she says was in the room. And 767 00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,400 Speaker 1: what does he say? Well, he says that he doesn't 768 00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,840 Speaker 1: recall the party and doesn't recall her. What her claim is? 769 00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,200 Speaker 1: And again we are talking about high school. Now he's 770 00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:16,640 Speaker 1: talking about she was fifteen, the guys were allegedly seventeen, 771 00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,239 Speaker 1: And Judge says, I don't know what she's talking about. 772 00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:23,320 Speaker 1: I remember high school perfectly well and all that's glory 773 00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:28,440 Speaker 1: and pain of going through high school. What can you 774 00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:35,160 Speaker 1: tell me, Dave mac about a another allegation now servicing 775 00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,560 Speaker 1: against Kavanaugh. Okay, there was a recent article published with 776 00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:42,600 Speaker 1: Ronan Pharaoh's byline, and it was in the New Yorker. 777 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:44,920 Speaker 1: This is an article. I gotta point this out, Nancy. 778 00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:48,800 Speaker 1: Several other publications refused to print because they just couldn't 779 00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:53,200 Speaker 1: substantiate the claim. Deborah Ramirez is claiming sexual misconduct on 780 00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:55,759 Speaker 1: the part of Kavanaugh, claiming it happened to her while 781 00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,440 Speaker 1: she was at Yale University and a dormitory party four 782 00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:03,759 Speaker 1: year in that time frame. And she's claiming, um that 783 00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:07,799 Speaker 1: during a drinking game that Kevina exposed himself and god 784 00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:09,799 Speaker 1: even a little bit further than that. But she did 785 00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,239 Speaker 1: name my witnesses people that were allegedly there, and the 786 00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:16,840 Speaker 1: four people that she named have all already said didn't happen, 787 00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,440 Speaker 1: weren't there, never even heard about this. So again, thirty 788 00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,600 Speaker 1: five years ago, there's a claim, and the four people 789 00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:27,480 Speaker 1: that she names all say it didn't happen. We weren't there. 790 00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:31,040 Speaker 1: I know what she's talking about, Okay, I don't really 791 00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:35,239 Speaker 1: know how we would prove a case like this if 792 00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:38,960 Speaker 1: it went to a jury trial. With me Karen Smith, 793 00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:42,920 Speaker 1: forensics expert joining me out of Florida. She and I've 794 00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:49,920 Speaker 1: conducted many, many forensic experiments together. Karen see I look 795 00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,160 Speaker 1: at everything from a world of black and white. Can 796 00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:54,520 Speaker 1: I bring it into evidence? What can you do with 797 00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:59,000 Speaker 1: these climbs forensically nothing, There is no forensics. And that's 798 00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,200 Speaker 1: the problem with these cases. There, he said, she said, 799 00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:06,040 Speaker 1: And Nancy, you know this has become so politicized and 800 00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:09,280 Speaker 1: so spun up on both sides, and in my mind, 801 00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:13,319 Speaker 1: there is only one way to you know, even if 802 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:15,319 Speaker 1: we can get to the bottom of this. It threw 803 00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:19,800 Speaker 1: the FBI. Allow them to do a full, fair and 804 00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:24,839 Speaker 1: unbiased investigation into all of these claims. Interview everyone, get 805 00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,920 Speaker 1: to the bottom of what they know, whether they were 806 00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:31,680 Speaker 1: there or not, get their testimony, get their statements, and 807 00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,200 Speaker 1: then go from there. It is beyond me why we 808 00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:38,920 Speaker 1: have not allowed the FBI to interview these people and 809 00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:41,799 Speaker 1: find out the truth as far as we can after 810 00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,760 Speaker 1: so many years have passed. It's only fair to everybody involved, 811 00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:47,720 Speaker 1: and it's only fair to the American public. Karen, start 812 00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:51,120 Speaker 1: joining me, psychologists joining me out of New York, Karen. 813 00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:58,720 Speaker 1: Very often victims don't ever come forward. I mean, everybody 814 00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:03,200 Speaker 1: on this panel. Has it something happening? You've never told anybody? Okay, 815 00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:07,479 Speaker 1: because it has to me. I don't see any reason 816 00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:14,319 Speaker 1: I should. Well, Karen, why my question is different? Why 817 00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,880 Speaker 1: are we rushing forward? Why can't we find out the 818 00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:22,600 Speaker 1: truth through the FBI before we go forward with anything? Well, well, 819 00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,600 Speaker 1: what what's the problem with that? Well, I think part 820 00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:29,080 Speaker 1: of why it's been rush so agances because he's been 821 00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:35,160 Speaker 1: you know, put up as somebody to be he's current 822 00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:39,040 Speaker 1: to be in this very very important position. And we 823 00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:43,040 Speaker 1: are living the time when everything is so polarized and 824 00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:48,040 Speaker 1: it's democratic or republican. So people come on board and 825 00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:52,000 Speaker 1: forget that this is an issue that is very important. 826 00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,320 Speaker 1: I'm reminded, and I know I'm the only one to 827 00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:57,680 Speaker 1: keep breathing about it now is the need to help. 828 00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:02,320 Speaker 1: Where she was condemned for coming forward after so many years, 829 00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,920 Speaker 1: Yet if you know, you know I know as a 830 00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:11,000 Speaker 1: psychologist that that is absolutely the truth. That's not that 831 00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,440 Speaker 1: person is true. I can't know that, but I do 832 00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:20,040 Speaker 1: know that people do not speak up. It's shameful, it's embarrassing, 833 00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:24,200 Speaker 1: and I would suspect that there was no reason for 834 00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:28,239 Speaker 1: her to share this story accepting therapy as she did. 835 00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:31,480 Speaker 1: Or if she's concerned that someone's going to be in 836 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:36,040 Speaker 1: a very important position making laws about our country and 837 00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:39,279 Speaker 1: then gets concerned that that person is not the right 838 00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:44,160 Speaker 1: person should be in that position. Well, Anita Hill, who 839 00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:48,040 Speaker 1: is now a feminist icon, remember she came forward about 840 00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:52,920 Speaker 1: Clarence Thomas, the current Supreme Court justice from Pinpoint, Georgia, 841 00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,279 Speaker 1: as I recall what stands out in my mind about 842 00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:59,840 Speaker 1: that is his affinity with a porn actor. Lord Dog Silver, 843 00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:03,880 Speaker 1: you know I don't want to make the same mistake twice. 844 00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:06,000 Speaker 1: Why can't we just put the brakes on it and 845 00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:11,040 Speaker 1: find out the truth? Nancy Grace crime story, signing off, 846 00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:12,359 Speaker 1: goodbye friend,