1
00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:20,520
Speaker 1: Buddy backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. It were better for

2
00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:27,440
Speaker 1: him that a millstone were hanged about his neck and

3
00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:34,680
Speaker 1: he cast into the sea, than that he should offend

4
00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:41,520
Speaker 1: one of these little ones. That's from the King James

5
00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:49,640
Speaker 1: version Luke seventeen to two. That's a message from Christ

6
00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,680
Speaker 1: referring to I think probably, and I'm no biblical scholar,

7
00:00:54,760 --> 00:01:00,000
Speaker 1: but how you treat those individuals that are God's children,

8
00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:07,280
Speaker 1: that you should offend one of them, that it would

9
00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,080
Speaker 1: be better that you have a millstone tied around your

10
00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,360
Speaker 1: neck and thrown into the sea. Just imagine that for

11
00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,960
Speaker 1: a moment. I don't know if you've ever seen a millstone,

12
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:24,520
Speaker 1: but it's massive, no chance of surviving that. But I

13
00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,919
Speaker 1: do want to talk about someone, a precious little girl

14
00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,760
Speaker 1: that did have a stone tied to her, and she

15
00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:39,640
Speaker 1: wasn't cast into the sea, but interestingly enough, she was

16
00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:48,280
Speaker 1: discarded and placed into the Trinity River. God was watching.

17
00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:56,880
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Backs. Dave mac.

18
00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:02,600
Speaker 1: One of my best memories was taking my kids. We

19
00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,040
Speaker 1: used to live in a town called Dalonaga, Georgia. People

20
00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,440
Speaker 1: sometimes pronounce it Dalla Nago. Of course, that's not the case.

21
00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:14,560
Speaker 1: It's up in the mountains in North Georgia. I taught

22
00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,280
Speaker 1: school up there many years for a decade and we

23
00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,400
Speaker 1: would go over to the town of Helen, Georgia, and

24
00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:26,560
Speaker 1: just outside of Helen there was an old fashioned gristmill

25
00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:31,320
Speaker 1: and it was it's the Saute Mill. I think it's

26
00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,000
Speaker 1: the name of it, I can't remember. And they had

27
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,680
Speaker 1: a big trout pond, well actually an eddy in the

28
00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,760
Speaker 1: Chatthooche River when it comes down out. It's not like

29
00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,399
Speaker 1: the Chatthoochie in Atlanta. It's the headwaters of the Chathoochie

30
00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,239
Speaker 1: and they had all manner of trout. And this thing

31
00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,760
Speaker 1: was these trout were massive in here and people would

32
00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,560
Speaker 1: feed them off the back. But when you go back

33
00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:57,200
Speaker 1: into the mill, and it's an original mill from the

34
00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,880
Speaker 1: eighteen seventies, I think they had millstone in there, you know.

35
00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:04,520
Speaker 1: And I always heard that that quote from the Bible.

36
00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,440
Speaker 1: When I was a kid, I never understood how big

37
00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,560
Speaker 1: a millstone was. And these things are gigantic. I mean

38
00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:18,239
Speaker 1: they're massive. It's shaped like a big stone doughnut essentially,

39
00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:22,280
Speaker 1: with a hole in the middle of it. And I

40
00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,239
Speaker 1: begin to understand, I think the first time I saw

41
00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:30,919
Speaker 1: this thing. How serious, how serious it is for someone

42
00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:36,880
Speaker 1: to do harm to those little ones? I think? And today, boy,

43
00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,800
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, we have got a really tragic

44
00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:40,760
Speaker 1: case on our hands.

45
00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,720
Speaker 2: Whenever we have a story that involves a child being

46
00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:51,960
Speaker 2: abused by an adult, it takes on a different air,

47
00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:56,600
Speaker 2: meaning what have you in intensity? In this case, we

48
00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:03,440
Speaker 2: follow this story from the moment Audrey Cunningham became part

49
00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:07,920
Speaker 2: of an amber alert. She was she left her house

50
00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,240
Speaker 2: to go to the bus stop. And the part about

51
00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,480
Speaker 2: most of these stories, when you have a missing story,

52
00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,400
Speaker 2: investigators they have to know when was the last time

53
00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:22,520
Speaker 2: somebody saw her, and it was a regular day. The

54
00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,640
Speaker 2: man who drove her to the bus stop was somebody

55
00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:29,760
Speaker 2: who did it before. It was a family friend. Don

56
00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:35,240
Speaker 2: Stephen McDougall lives in a camper in the backyard of

57
00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:39,799
Speaker 2: Audrey Cunningham's house in Texas. Audrey is eleven years old.

58
00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,640
Speaker 2: Don Stephen McDougall is a friend of her dad and

59
00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,120
Speaker 2: so him being a part of their family. Having access

60
00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,359
Speaker 2: to the house was an everyday, normal occurrence. Him taking

61
00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,640
Speaker 2: her to the bus stop again a normal thing. But

62
00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,120
Speaker 2: the bottom line always being the bottom line, you look

63
00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,960
Speaker 2: at the last person to be with the individual, and

64
00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,120
Speaker 2: that's Don Stephen McDougall. And we found out later, of

65
00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,760
Speaker 2: course he didn't take her to school, and a couple

66
00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:08,360
Speaker 2: of days later, her body is found in the Trinity River,

67
00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,839
Speaker 2: not far from her home and in a general vicinity

68
00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,159
Speaker 2: of where her backpack had also been found. At eleven

69
00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:20,440
Speaker 2: years old, the body of Audrey Cunningham was found. She

70
00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,880
Speaker 2: was tied to a rock with a rope and put

71
00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,320
Speaker 2: in that river. The rock was there to weigh her

72
00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,680
Speaker 2: down and the current in the river at that spot

73
00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,720
Speaker 2: was so dramatic that they actually had to lower the

74
00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,120
Speaker 2: river in order for divers to be able to get

75
00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,000
Speaker 2: to Audrey. And when they got her out, they did not,

76
00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,640
Speaker 2: I say, bay, the sheriff did not tell us the

77
00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:47,920
Speaker 2: condition of her body when she came out of the river.

78
00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,359
Speaker 2: She could have been Joe, because we don't know. She

79
00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,400
Speaker 2: could have been held somewhere in a cave for several

80
00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,440
Speaker 2: days and then hours before you know, she could have

81
00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:01,240
Speaker 2: been put in the or she could have been in

82
00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,880
Speaker 2: there since the you know, minutes after she went missing.

83
00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,800
Speaker 2: We don't know. That's the information we need to find out.

84
00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,880
Speaker 2: So Audrey Cunningham eleven years old, goes missing with a

85
00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,320
Speaker 2: family friend on the way to the bus stop, and

86
00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,440
Speaker 2: days later her body is found in the river, tied

87
00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:17,000
Speaker 2: to a rock.

88
00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,480
Speaker 1: When I think of the area down near near Houston,

89
00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,920
Speaker 1: that area in South Texas, Southeast Texas, actually I don't

90
00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:33,000
Speaker 1: normally think of rapids and swift swift water. I think about,

91
00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,680
Speaker 1: you know, out in West Texas where it's kind of mountainous,

92
00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:39,000
Speaker 1: you know that sort of thing, and you've got you've

93
00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,039
Speaker 1: got a lot of hills and stones and the river

94
00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,000
Speaker 1: and everything. But the thing about it is trendy river.

95
00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,480
Speaker 1: It gets up and it goes. Man. I was, I

96
00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,279
Speaker 1: was checking a couple of the images that I saw

97
00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:55,120
Speaker 1: on this thing, and there's whitewater out there. I mean,

98
00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:59,359
Speaker 1: it's it's really cruising along, which is fascinating to me

99
00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:05,200
Speaker 1: given the topography in this particular area, and to think that,

100
00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,720
Speaker 1: you you know, you think about areas down in this

101
00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:13,080
Speaker 1: basin as you're headed toward the Gulf of Mexico, and

102
00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,080
Speaker 1: you think about, you know, you think about things like

103
00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,840
Speaker 1: the Mississippi River, and the Mississippi River is powerful, but

104
00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,880
Speaker 1: you don't see whitewater necessarily unless the storm comes up.

105
00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,160
Speaker 1: You think about kind of slow moving, you know, that's

106
00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,680
Speaker 1: where that's not that's not the case here. As a

107
00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,000
Speaker 1: matter of fact, when they begin the search, and this

108
00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,120
Speaker 1: is kind of kind of fascinating, they had to go

109
00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:39,040
Speaker 1: to the authorities to be able to go upstream and

110
00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:43,840
Speaker 1: ask them to reduce the flow of of this river

111
00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,960
Speaker 1: as it's clipping along there, so that they can get

112
00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,800
Speaker 1: into this area and have the divers, you know, get

113
00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,760
Speaker 1: into this area and begin their search. And it's not

114
00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,280
Speaker 1: just a search where you're looking at the water on

115
00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,480
Speaker 1: the surface. They're having to get in there with things

116
00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:02,240
Speaker 1: like handheld sonar and these devices where they can look

117
00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:07,480
Speaker 1: beneath the surface of the water. And because it is

118
00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:12,760
Speaker 1: such rivers are very difficult anyway. It's like unlike any

119
00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,760
Speaker 1: other kind of a body of water in the sense

120
00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:21,480
Speaker 1: when you're looking for people, it'll have shallows, eddies, you

121
00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,720
Speaker 1: can have if you have stones in the river, you

122
00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,520
Speaker 1: can have like almost an entrapment beneath the stones, where

123
00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,640
Speaker 1: bodies will get beneath these stones and they won't come

124
00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:35,760
Speaker 1: out until the body begins to bloat. But in this case,

125
00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,960
Speaker 1: not too far away from you've got a train trestle

126
00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:44,360
Speaker 1: and a regular standard bridge that cross that cross this

127
00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:50,319
Speaker 1: river and you've got this precious little angel that is

128
00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:57,680
Speaker 1: weighted down with the stone beneath the surface, and for

129
00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,040
Speaker 1: these divers to get out there and return her remains,

130
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,760
Speaker 1: it's a herculean task. And sense that not only are

131
00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,240
Speaker 1: they trying to retrieve her and treat this because as

132
00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,960
Speaker 1: rightly they should as a homicide scene, they just got

133
00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:14,800
Speaker 1: to survive this thing and to try to get her

134
00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,120
Speaker 1: out intact as best they can. So you've got all

135
00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,199
Speaker 1: of the stuff going on at one time. Tip of

136
00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:21,840
Speaker 1: the cap to these people that get out there and

137
00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,760
Speaker 1: do this, because I'm not mad enough to do it.

138
00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,199
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it, particularly at this age. I couldn't.

139
00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,680
Speaker 1: I couldn't get out there and go sep surface on

140
00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,360
Speaker 1: the scene and try to retrieve her and try to

141
00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,800
Speaker 1: retrieve her because Dave, I got to tell you this rope,

142
00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,800
Speaker 1: the knots, and that stone, they're key here, man. You know.

143
00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,880
Speaker 2: Backing up to the search with Texas ex Research, our

144
00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,480
Speaker 2: buddy Tim Miller, Yeah, he actually described them out in

145
00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,320
Speaker 2: the boat with the sonar and they were able to

146
00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,400
Speaker 2: locate what they believed. You know, they see an anomaly

147
00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,600
Speaker 2: on the sonar and they believed it to be her,

148
00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,920
Speaker 2: but they couldn't get to her. And that was it

149
00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,080
Speaker 2: was interesting. At the pres conference when they announced finding

150
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,640
Speaker 2: her body, the sheriff was very careful not to say

151
00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,360
Speaker 2: who specifically found Audrey because everybody wants to take credit.

152
00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,160
Speaker 2: But in this case, I say everybody wants to take credit.

153
00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,640
Speaker 2: It's if that's your job to recover and find people,

154
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,679
Speaker 2: then when you recover, when you find somebody, you want

155
00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:24,080
Speaker 2: to say we did this. In this particular case, Audrey's case,

156
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,840
Speaker 2: it was a collective effort. There were several different agencies involved,

157
00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,720
Speaker 2: from again Texas Equi Search where they found this on

158
00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,240
Speaker 2: the image of sonar where they believed her body but

159
00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,679
Speaker 2: they couldn't get to her. And then it was the

160
00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,160
Speaker 2: water authority that actually did shut things down so that

161
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,400
Speaker 2: they could get in, and just a lot of different

162
00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,479
Speaker 2: agencies involved. And it's a I have so many questions

163
00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,560
Speaker 2: about the condition of her body and how long she

164
00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:59,360
Speaker 2: had been in Now we did receive finally the authority

165
00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:04,560
Speaker 2: the actual cause of death, which I don't know how

166
00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:05,360
Speaker 2: much it tells us.

167
00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,280
Speaker 1: Joe, it's wanting at best, because you know and we

168
00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,000
Speaker 1: it's like it's like the announcement you were talking about

169
00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:13,880
Speaker 1: relative to you know, who found her and that sort

170
00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:19,360
Speaker 1: of thing. I think that we ah, we want conclusions

171
00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,719
Speaker 1: to all of this, But you know, my friend, sometimes

172
00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:28,679
Speaker 1: in this world that is full of evil, in this

173
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:35,680
Speaker 1: case is the personification of this. I think sometimes you

174
00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:59,199
Speaker 1: won't have all the answers that you PRESI, Dave, I'm

175
00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,960
Speaker 1: glad you you brought up Tim regarding equisearch. I was

176
00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,679
Speaker 1: actually on air with Tim when he was discussing this

177
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,880
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, this discovery that he had made with

178
00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:15,120
Speaker 1: the sonar, and what a tough job this is. He's

179
00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,800
Speaker 1: been out on countless of these cases over the years.

180
00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:24,720
Speaker 1: But Tim described he couldn't pick up utilizing the sonar

181
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,080
Speaker 1: that they had, He couldn't pick up on a targeted

182
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:33,600
Speaker 1: a targeted image that would say to him, based upon

183
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,800
Speaker 1: what he was seeing that this is definitively a body.

184
00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,240
Speaker 1: What he saw was something that was in fact an

185
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:45,080
Speaker 1: anomaly beneath the surface of the water, and that it

186
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,679
Speaker 1: kind of continued to move about, but it would stay

187
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,040
Speaker 1: in the same place. Does that make sense. It was

188
00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:56,200
Speaker 1: just kind of this weird thing. And I was mentioning

189
00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,880
Speaker 1: how tough, you know, kind of navigating on a river

190
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,679
Speaker 1: is because you don't. It's hard to imagine all of

191
00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:04,480
Speaker 1: the debris that's on the bottom of a river because

192
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,120
Speaker 1: all it takes is one big storm, and you might

193
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,319
Speaker 1: have an oak tree in a location where it wasn't

194
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,240
Speaker 1: prior to the storm because the water will just grab

195
00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:15,840
Speaker 1: it and pull it down. So one of the things

196
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:21,080
Speaker 1: he was looking at was his manifestation on screen, and

197
00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,920
Speaker 1: they're trying to determine what this is that I think

198
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,120
Speaker 1: that at that moment in time, they understood that this

199
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:32,920
Speaker 1: is probably her. But that's when the call went out

200
00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,079
Speaker 1: for them to reduce the flow on this thing. I

201
00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,559
Speaker 1: don't think that on a river like the Trinity River

202
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:42,600
Speaker 1: you can completely shut down the floe because it's so robust,

203
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,120
Speaker 1: but they reduced it to the point where it became

204
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:46,280
Speaker 1: more manageable and.

205
00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,440
Speaker 2: It feeds into Lake Livingston. Correct.

206
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:49,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

207
00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:54,120
Speaker 2: Lake Livingston is what actually provides water to Houston and

208
00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,800
Speaker 2: using community. So you've got to be three thousand acre lake.

209
00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,760
Speaker 2: I think something along I don't know what's like.

210
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,800
Speaker 1: Houston's like, what the fourth or fifth largest city in

211
00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,960
Speaker 1: the United States. It's massive, man, and so that's what

212
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,000
Speaker 1: they're you know, that's what they're looking at, and when

213
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,960
Speaker 1: they get this reduced. The reason he could not and

214
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,040
Speaker 1: we need to get our mind wrapped around this relative

215
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:26,320
Speaker 1: to what happened to to Audrey's body. The reason he

216
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,080
Speaker 1: was not able to get a firm fix on her

217
00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:34,320
Speaker 1: at that point in time. Per TAM's comments was that

218
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,600
Speaker 1: the stone that she was weighted down with that she

219
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,600
Speaker 1: was tied off, was resting on the bottom right, So

220
00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:44,200
Speaker 1: it acts obviously as an anchor, but there's an extended

221
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,800
Speaker 1: rope that comes that attaches from the rope to her body.

222
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,240
Speaker 1: Now they have not specifically stated where that point of

223
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,600
Speaker 1: attachment is, and that's going to play a key role

224
00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,960
Speaker 1: in this, I think. But what was happening was that

225
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,360
Speaker 1: her body was kind of spinning. You'll just imagine like

226
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,920
Speaker 1: a whirlpool and at the base you've got this anchor

227
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,320
Speaker 1: point and she's just kind of spinning in the water

228
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:11,760
Speaker 1: around and around and around. So it gives you an idea.

229
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,480
Speaker 1: Under this amount of force, you know that she's tied

230
00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,560
Speaker 1: tightly because the force of the river is not knocking

231
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,880
Speaker 1: her loose from that point of attachment. So some work

232
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:23,480
Speaker 1: had to go into this. You had to know what

233
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,440
Speaker 1: you were doing. When it comes down to say, for instance,

234
00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,440
Speaker 1: tying knots, which is something we look at in forensic

235
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,080
Speaker 1: science because if you have a certain skill level with

236
00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:39,440
Speaker 1: tying knots, tye knots is it's almost like it's not

237
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:46,600
Speaker 1: exactly like handwriting, but people that are that are good

238
00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,080
Speaker 1: at it tend to do the same thing over and

239
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,160
Speaker 1: over again. It's a skill set that people acquire and

240
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:58,440
Speaker 1: highly complex, highly complicated knots give you an idea to

241
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,160
Speaker 1: skill level and you begin to look for perpetrator. This

242
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,200
Speaker 1: is one thing you're gonna look for in their background.

243
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,240
Speaker 2: Okay, now that makes sense because one of the things

244
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,240
Speaker 2: that was said early on when we found out about

245
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,080
Speaker 2: Rock that she was tied to a rock with this rope.

246
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,800
Speaker 2: And when officers pulled him over because he was a

247
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:19,920
Speaker 2: person of interest and they were trying to find they

248
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:21,720
Speaker 2: were trying to find out what's going on with him.

249
00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,200
Speaker 2: They saw him out with his dark SUV, the Chevy Suburban,

250
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,040
Speaker 2: and they did a quick stop on him and looking

251
00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,360
Speaker 2: in the vehicle, they saw his rope in the back

252
00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,760
Speaker 2: of the vehicle and that came up later on when

253
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,080
Speaker 2: they found rope tied to a rock tied daughtery. But

254
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,760
Speaker 2: let me ask you this, Joe because the cause of

255
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,080
Speaker 2: death and manner of death have been released, and they

256
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,000
Speaker 2: say the cause of death is homicidal violence and the

257
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,520
Speaker 2: manner of death is homicide. You mentioned, it's truly lacking

258
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,520
Speaker 2: in a nice way. That's not what I expect from

259
00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,120
Speaker 2: cause of death and manner of death. I expect more,

260
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:56,760
Speaker 2: And I guess I'm wrong in that.

261
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,480
Speaker 1: No, I don't think that you're wrong. I think the

262
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:03,360
Speaker 1: what what they're saying, let me let me tell you

263
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,479
Speaker 1: what we can say that it's that, it's not We

264
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,360
Speaker 1: can say that it's probably it's probably not a stabbing,

265
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:16,040
Speaker 1: it's probably not a shooting. So you you have to

266
00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:18,919
Speaker 1: what you're left with at that point in tom is

267
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,040
Speaker 1: an asphyxial death. Perhaps. You know, we're not going to

268
00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:26,520
Speaker 1: get down the road of things like poisoning and all

269
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:28,560
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. You have to, you know, you

270
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,720
Speaker 1: have to look at this. You can consider it, and

271
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,920
Speaker 1: they would, they're they're doing toxicology, I tell you that.

272
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,760
Speaker 1: But you know what's the most logical step here. You know,

273
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,720
Speaker 1: somebody that has taken time to tie her body off

274
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,800
Speaker 1: and put her in a location where she will not

275
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:51,280
Speaker 1: be seen, which in and of itself is is ghoulish

276
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,720
Speaker 1: when you think about it, because I don't know what

277
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:56,840
Speaker 1: their intent would have been unless it was just to

278
00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,199
Speaker 1: leave her behind and get away from her body as

279
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,879
Speaker 1: much distance between themselves and the body as possible. But

280
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,639
Speaker 1: you don't have anything to hang your hat on. And

281
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,400
Speaker 1: one of the problems is is that remember that swirling

282
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:15,680
Speaker 1: action I was talking about, Well, her body, there's a

283
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,960
Speaker 1: high probability her body is getting dinged up underneath the

284
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,359
Speaker 1: surface of the water. I mean, any of us that

285
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:26,040
Speaker 1: have you know, been around water, if you've ever jumped

286
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,680
Speaker 1: off of a moving boat, like if you're water skiing

287
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,919
Speaker 1: or doing anything like that, it's a violent it's a

288
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,760
Speaker 1: violent event. I don't even like to water ski anymore

289
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,520
Speaker 1: because it's it's one of those things. I feel like

290
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,640
Speaker 1: I've been in a tumble dryer when when I get

291
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:42,440
Speaker 1: back out of the water, can't move the next day.

292
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,320
Speaker 1: So just imagine that, hour after hour after hour, her

293
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,000
Speaker 1: little body is beneath the surface of the water just

294
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:55,840
Speaker 1: kind of spinning about in this eddy that was being

295
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,439
Speaker 1: created by her placement, and the water is trying to

296
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,440
Speaker 1: move around her and knocking her into or her remains

297
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,359
Speaker 1: any into anything that's there. So they have to be

298
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,399
Speaker 1: they being the medical examiner, which this her body was

299
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,320
Speaker 1: taken to the Harris County Medical Examiner, which is one

300
00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,640
Speaker 1: of the biggest mes offices in the United States. It's

301
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,560
Speaker 1: there in Houston. They actually have a forensic science center there.

302
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,919
Speaker 1: They have to be able to delineate between what is

303
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 1: anti mortem trauma, which is those things that occur before death,

304
00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 1: and then post mortem trauma. And I don't know if

305
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:37,760
Speaker 1: they're having if they were having trouble trying to delineate

306
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:43,000
Speaker 1: between those. Most of the time, if you have pre

307
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,000
Speaker 1: death trauma, say in the neck or whatnot, you're going

308
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,880
Speaker 1: to have focal areas of hemorrhage. If you have insults,

309
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,600
Speaker 1: like you know, a dead body is being banged into things,

310
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,520
Speaker 1: you're not going to have associated hemorrhage. It just makes

311
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,320
Speaker 1: me wonder how traumatized her body was to the point

312
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 1: where all they can say is is homicidal What was it?

313
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:04,480
Speaker 1: You said?

314
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,840
Speaker 2: Homicidal violence, right, and blunt head trauma? That is, they

315
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,920
Speaker 2: said died from blunt head trauma. But they listed cause

316
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,639
Speaker 2: of death homicidal violence, manner of death homicide.

317
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,639
Speaker 1: So if you're talking about blunt head trauma, well, is

318
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,160
Speaker 1: it is it anti mortem or is it post mortem?

319
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,240
Speaker 1: They're saying that she sustained this before death, because that

320
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,399
Speaker 1: is actually the cause of death. And I'm sure that

321
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,760
Speaker 1: they were having a hard time trying to understand how

322
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:36,880
Speaker 1: many of these injuries occur to her body after death

323
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 1: and what was you know, what was what was generated?

324
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 1: You know afterwards? You know what? One of my biggest

325
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 1: fears day with this, and this is so horrific. I

326
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:54,119
Speaker 1: began thinking about this. I had that image of if

327
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:58,480
Speaker 1: you've ever seen that old image of Harry Houdini where

328
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,919
Speaker 1: he is tied on a dock. I think it was

329
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,920
Speaker 1: in New York and he jumped off the pier and

330
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if he was weighted down or not,

331
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 1: but he had to break free. There's that classic black

332
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,480
Speaker 1: and white image of him, you know, and he's bound up.

333
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:18,719
Speaker 1: And my big fear here was that whoever did this

334
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 1: to Audrey, that they were going to use the water

335
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 1: as a means to kill her, that there could have

336
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 1: been a possibility she could have been drowned. And I look,

337
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,240
Speaker 1: in this world, I wouldn't put anything past anybody, and

338
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody can take solace in that,

339
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,440
Speaker 1: but obviously drowning is not what they're looking at here.

340
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 1: They think she was violently.

341
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:44,600
Speaker 2: And violently killed.

342
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 1: With Audrey, we begin to think about what's what's left behind,

343
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 1: what what can happen? And Dave, I'm gonna go down

344
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:20,159
Speaker 1: a really dark road here, so bear with me. I

345
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: have to believe that there is a a sexual component

346
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,679
Speaker 1: to her death. And you know, we have to go

347
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:36,160
Speaker 1: ahead and discuss the elephant in the room here because

348
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 1: this alleged perpetrator, who is thankfully now in custody, he's

349
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 1: this Don Stephen McDougall. He's got a history, doesn't he.

350
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,680
Speaker 2: Boba, He's got a history of He's what you consider

351
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 2: a career criminal. His first criminal encounter with Lesa was

352
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 2: back in two thousand and one. Not going to run

353
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 2: down the entire list, but there is one that really

354
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,400
Speaker 2: stands out, and it's from two thousand and seven, two

355
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 2: thousand and eight, where Don Stephen McDougall was accused of

356
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 2: sneaking into a room with two girls are in a bed.

357
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 2: They're both underage, and he picks one up and removes

358
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 2: her from the room. He then crawls in bed with

359
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 2: the other underage girl who's asleep. He removes her undergarments,

360
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 2: her pant her pajama bottoms, her PJ bottoms, and her

361
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 2: PJ or her underwear. And he actually was accused of this,

362
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 2: he negotiated it down when he was originally charged and

363
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 2: what have you. And the reason I say that is

364
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 2: because a grand jury indicted him, but before it went

365
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 2: to trial, he negotiated and pled down on the charge

366
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 2: to a third degree felony in Texas, he pled guilty

367
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 2: to enticing a child and he did get a two

368
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 2: year sentence. But because he negotiated it down, he did

369
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 2: not have to read on this sex offender list. So

370
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 2: this career criminal dodged that bullet. So he's not on

371
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 2: the list, even though he did something that actually certainly

372
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 2: fits that profile of what you and I might think

373
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 2: of as somebody who is a sex offender, a child

374
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 2: sex predator, what have you. But yeah, that goes into

375
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,120
Speaker 2: this long list. There is a list of his crimes

376
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 2: that goes all the way through up till December of

377
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,919
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. Anyway, the reason I sailed that is

378
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 2: because the long list of crimes were everything I mean,

379
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 2: we are talking. He has been involved in everything from drugs, sex, stealing.

380
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 2: He's your guy, and this is the man. Yeah, assault,

381
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 2: and that's actually you know, there was an instance in

382
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 2: twenty ten. He was working in a garage with a

383
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 2: group of guys there after work drinking atfella's house and

384
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 2: Don Stephen McDougall gets a little drunk and there becomes

385
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 2: a disagreement. They tell him to leave. They kicked Don Stephen.

386
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 2: You got to go, man, you're drunk, you're being stupid,

387
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 2: get out, and he leaves, but he comes back with

388
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 2: a knife and he starts slashing all their tires and

389
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 2: threatens these friends, his coworkers with the knife. One of

390
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 2: the guys actually has to pull a gun, a shotgun

391
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 2: out to threaten him to get him to leave. They

392
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 2: call the police and he actually was charged with that

393
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,360
Speaker 2: assault and spent time in prison over that one. It

394
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 2: was Audrey's father that was friends with Don Stephen McDougall

395
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 2: who allowed Don Stephen McDougall to live in their backyard

396
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 2: in a cab over camper and have access to Audrey. Now,

397
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 2: I want to be very clear on this show. Yeah,

398
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 2: we don't know. Audrey's dad might have looked at this

399
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 2: guy certainly as a whatever, but maybe he didn't. He

400
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 2: knew he's a criminal, but didn't know about any kind

401
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 2: of sexual thing towards a child. You know, maybe he

402
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 2: didn't know any of that. I'm not excusing anybody's behavior

403
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 2: for who they put around their children. I'm just saying

404
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 2: maybe he wasn't aware. Because again, he's not on the

405
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 2: sex savendor list. Unless he tells you what he's been

406
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 2: convicted of, you're not gonna.

407
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: Know, No, you're not. But I can't imagine that you're

408
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 1: that they would not have shared a beer at some

409
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: point in time and had discussions about, you know, woe

410
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 1: is me? What has been done to me? And it's

411
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: put me in this light, and I want to go

412
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 1: back to this idea of enticement, just for a second,

413
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: enticing and what an insult that is to that little

414
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 1: girl and that little girl's family that this had occurred

415
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 1: to before. Because right now, I'll go ahead and tell

416
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: you we're in the middle of lent right now, and

417
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 1: so right now I'm really fighting staying away from sugar

418
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: for forty days, all right, it's my thing. I'm trying

419
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: to stay away from it. If I see something or

420
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 1: somebody offers me something that has that's a sweet That's

421
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,360
Speaker 1: that's an enticement to me. Okay, that means that you're

422
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: offering me something. Do you think that that little girl

423
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: in that bed that night she was so you're you're

424
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: telling me, from a legal perspective, that she was enticing him.

425
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 1: What a horrible thing, What a horrible thing to think

426
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: about this. And now we're in this situation with this

427
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: precious little angel that he's been accused of and she's

428
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: at the bottom of this river being spun around over

429
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: and over and over again violently. I can't you can't

430
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: take the measure of this thing. And look, he's done

431
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: this before. That's that's the plain and simple truth here.

432
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: He's done this before. From an evidentiary standpoint and from

433
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,679
Speaker 1: the perspective of what we're going to look at with

434
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: Audrey's remains, we have to go back and think about

435
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 1: what they're saying here homicide of violence. We established that

436
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: they're talking about blunt force trauma of the head. But

437
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: I think that the big question here is did he

438
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: sexually assault her? Well, you know, according to Tim from Equifax,

439
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: her pants are found up on the up on the

440
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: up on the shore of or up on the bank

441
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: of the River Dave, which is fascinating to me because

442
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: you know, how how do you how do how do

443
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 1: her pants get off of her and are found resting

444
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: on the on the on the shore there. It's you know,

445
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 1: these things don't just spontaneously happen. They're purposed. And what

446
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: he did do by placing her in that water, he's

447
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: compromised our ability to try to find evidence of sexual

448
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: assault in certain ways.

449
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 2: If she went in the water within hours of her

450
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 2: going missing. She was in the water yead for hours

451
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 2: before her family even knew she wasn't it she was missing, yea,

452
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 2: and before they even began search, she was already in

453
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 2: the water. How much damage because you talked about her

454
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 2: being tied to this rock, but I assumed that there

455
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 2: was just tied very there. You know, the rock was

456
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 2: tied to her chest and all bound up. But you're

457
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: saying that here's the rock, there's a length of rope,

458
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 2: and her body is like a kite being slung around.

459
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's kind of oscillating. I guess that's the best

460
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: term that we can think about here with this movement

461
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: going back and forth. And I got to tell you

462
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: that's kind of what I thought as well that and

463
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: we've seen this image in movies. I've never actually seen

464
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: it in reality like cases that I've worked where people

465
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: are they place a rock on their chest and then

466
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: tie their arms. That's not what using a kite analogy,

467
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: that's the that's the best. Wow. And with that dynamic

468
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: that you've got going on with this flowing water, let's

469
00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: just say, for instance, that that the accused did, in

470
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: fact sexually assault her. Well, there are specific areas on

471
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: the body of a sexual assault victim that you look

472
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: to to glean evidence. Okay, in this particular case, you

473
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: would be quite frank with you. You're going to perform

474
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 1: a rape kit, and that consists of examining the sexual

475
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: female anatomy, also her bottom, and also her mouth. Well,

476
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: what are you contending with this point in time? The

477
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: Trinity River is what you're contending with and anything that

478
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: has been and we do know that in cases of rape,

479
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: what happens is that there's a dilation that goes on

480
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: in these specific areas, and when you get dilation opening up,

481
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: it's going to flush out, you know, things of evidentiary value.

482
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: And I think that that's one of the issues that

483
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: they're having to deal with what they would have to

484
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: fall back on. If you can't get if you can't

485
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: get say, ejaculate, if you can't get blood, then the

486
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: only evidence that they're going to have, Dave is is trauma.

487
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: And again we go back to this idea of her,

488
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: you know, oscillating in the water. Well, how do you

489
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: delineate you know, between the oscillation and the water and

490
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: banging off of any objects that may be in there

491
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: or passing by her. Remember you can have branches and

492
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: you know, tree trunks and all that stuff that will

493
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: bump into bodies in a flowing, flowing body of water.

494
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: How much of the trauma that you're seeing is something

495
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: that generated as a result of being in the water

496
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: as opposed to what may have occurred in those last

497
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: moments of Audrey's life. That's going to be really hard

498
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: one saving grace here, I think, And this is kind

499
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: of odd. First off, I'm very curious about those that

500
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: garment that was found on the on the on the

501
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: bank of the river. What kind of analysis was is

502
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: going to be performed there? How wet were they Because

503
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: you're by a river, it's it's going to be wet.

504
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: Can you get any fiber evidence any kind of trace

505
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: evidence off of that that could tie back to your suspect.

506
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: The odds would be tough. But here here's something interesting, Dave.

507
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: If everybody that's listening to my voice right now will

508
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: take a look at your fingernails, look down the long

509
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: axis of your fingers and so that you're looking at

510
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: the edge of your fingernails, your fingernails are they're like

511
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: little shovels. Okay, if if Audrey fought back and she

512
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: scratched him, the hooded nature of of your fingernails, sometimes

513
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: you can get de breathe that's lodged in there. It's

514
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: kind of a long shot, but I would imagine like

515
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: when we do a rape kit in a morgue. Now,

516
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: part of doing the rape kit is not just the

517
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: examination of those uh you know, the sexual organs and

518
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: uh in other areas of the body, but we also

519
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,479
Speaker 1: do nail trimmings and nail scrapings. If something is caught

520
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: beneath there, would it have survived the current? And that's

521
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: that's gonna be a big question, because that that goes

522
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: to let's just say she did scratch him, and she

523
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: has some kind of material that originated from him, and

524
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: they will do a DNA swab on him. I can

525
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: you can take that to the bank. Can they compare

526
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: anything off of off of her remains that they pulled

527
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: out of out of the river. That's going to be

528
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: quite interesting to hear them say. And you know, we're

529
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: not going to know. I can almost it's gonna be

530
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: radio silence at this point in time. You know, They've

531
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: I got to you know, I gotta pat them on

532
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 1: the back that they have actually released something. But from

533
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,320
Speaker 1: here on out, they're gonna put a full court press

534
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: on this thing. They're gonna move forward. This is my

535
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: one hope. This is my one hope in all of this,

536
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: because you know, Dave, I'm chief among sinners when it

537
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: comes to us covering true crime. I really hope that

538
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: for those across the nation that have been following Audra

539
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: Cunningham's case, that they're not gonna forget about her. They're

540
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 1: not gonna forget about the trauma that she was subjected to,

541
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 1: They're not gonna forget about how this could have been

542
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:56,959
Speaker 1: anybody's child. Because there are predators in this world. They're

543
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: looking to grab little kids like this, and she was

544
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: in a very very vulnerable position. I'm asking all of

545
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: you guys right now please remember Altar Cunningham as we

546
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 1: move forward with this case and let's see where it goes.

547
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks