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Speaker 1: Dear listener. This episode includes some language that might be

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Speaker 1: offensive from Fuduro Media and PRX. It's Latino. Usay, I'm

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Speaker 1: Maria no josa today. Why is Misscle suddenly so popular?

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Speaker 1: And what are the unintended unseen consequences. There's a saying

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Speaker 1: that goes barrato mal mescale barto in dambien, which essentially says,

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Speaker 1: for everything bad, there's mescle, and for everything good, there's

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Speaker 1: miscle as well. Although tequila is the most popular Mexican

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Speaker 1: distilled beverage for a lot of people outside of Mexico,

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Speaker 1: miscal it's much older sibling is proving to be an

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Speaker 1: international popular cultural sensation in ways that tequila never was.

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Speaker 1: The way miss Scle is traditionally made can and put

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Speaker 1: the world's finest wine makers to shame. What you hear

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Speaker 1: in the background is an agave farmer in the central

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Speaker 1: valley of Wahaka. He's chopping the prickly leaves from a

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Speaker 1: n agave plant that will eventually make its way through

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Speaker 1: the vigorous process of distilling in order to create mescal.

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Speaker 1: The drink is seriously mystical. Its origins are disputed, but

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Speaker 1: it is nonetheless considered the elixir of the gods of

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Speaker 1: the sapotech world. Still, due to the commercialization of tequila

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Speaker 1: and bureaucracy and the high cost of authenticating a spirit

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Speaker 1: to governmental standards, mescal was pushed to the shadows and

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Speaker 1: was left to be a drink of the poor. In fact,

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Speaker 1: when I first bought mescal in nineteen eighty one, I

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Speaker 1: got it in a plastic jug because you couldn't get

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Speaker 1: it in the liquor stores. But now mescal is finding

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Speaker 1: its way to Instagram feeds and the trendy barkers across

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Speaker 1: the United States, and producers of miscaler trying to strike

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Speaker 1: a balance between mass commercialization and ethical farming of the

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Speaker 1: crop that makes mescale. Maybe most importantly, they want to

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Speaker 1: make sure those in the business and consumers alike understand

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Speaker 1: and appreciate the culture behind the millinery.

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Speaker 2: Drink.

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Speaker 3: Producers Juan Dio.

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Speaker 1: Ramirez in New York and Aredi Morales in Wajaca are

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Speaker 1: going to tell us more.

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Speaker 4: It's the beginning of the pandemic, and I found myself

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Speaker 4: doom scrolling through Instagram. Then a picture published by the

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Speaker 4: La taco An independent news outlet in La catches my eye.

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Speaker 4: It was from a protest against ICE, the Immigration and

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Speaker 4: Customs Enforcement Agency. The posts depicted people in support of immigrants.

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Speaker 4: They held Mexican flags, and a woman had a sign

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Speaker 4: that read, I.

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Speaker 5: Drink my Orchata warm because fuck eyes.

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Speaker 4: That is Silberto Marquez, bartender and global brand ambassador for

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Speaker 4: Illegal Mescal, a brand with operations in the US and Mexico.

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Speaker 4: Like me, Hilberto was also bored on Instagram, but don'tlike me.

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Speaker 4: He clicked on the comments section and noticed something that

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Speaker 4: I completely missed.

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Speaker 5: Towards the top, someone said that it was not fair

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Speaker 5: to blame ICE because they were just doing their job.

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Speaker 6: So I was like, WHOA, Who's this?

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Speaker 7: He clicked on the profile.

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Speaker 5: And then I just started seeing just all of these

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Speaker 5: racially charged posts or maybe even on a personal level triggering.

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Speaker 4: The person who had made that comment was also in

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Speaker 4: the liquor business. He was a partner at another Mescale brand.

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Speaker 4: This is not the first time he had seen these

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Speaker 4: type of comments online.

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Speaker 5: And so that really hit home for me. I'm like,

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Speaker 5: what is the deal with someone who doesn't appreciate the

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Speaker 5: struggle of the immigrant and the culture in general that

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Speaker 5: wants to consume, sell, and profit from the culture. I

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Speaker 5: didn't understand it. I don't understand it to this day.

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Speaker 4: I've always had a close connection to Mescali, after all,

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Speaker 4: I'm from one the capital of Mescal, but I didn't

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Speaker 4: quite understood why an American with no Mexican roots or

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Speaker 4: connections would be interested in its business. So I reached

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Speaker 4: out to Morales, my friend and freelance journalist living in Wahaka,

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Speaker 4: to help me understand the Mescale business culture and its

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Speaker 4: connection to the American market. Hi, really, Olajuan Diego really?

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Speaker 4: First of all, Okay, many people know about tequila, but

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Speaker 4: what exactly is miss scale?

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Speaker 6: Oh, tequila is miscall, but not all mescal can be

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Speaker 6: considered tequila.

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Speaker 7: Hmm, what do you mean by that?

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Speaker 6: Well, like champagne, which can only be made in the

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Speaker 6: city of Champagne in France, tequila can only be produced

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Speaker 6: with blue agave in the city of Tequila, Northwestern in

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Speaker 6: the state of Hali School. Mescal, on the other hand,

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Speaker 6: can be produced using a variation of agavez in other

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Speaker 6: Mexican states, although most popularly in Wahaka.

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Speaker 7: I see.

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Speaker 6: The main factor is a denomination of origin. The tequila

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Speaker 6: denomination of origin was created in nineteen seventy four. Mescal

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Speaker 6: obtained its own denomination only twenty years later, in nineteen

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Speaker 6: ninety four. You must have it to sell and export

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Speaker 6: your agave based product as authentic mescale. As of today,

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Speaker 6: only nine out of thirty two Mexican states hold the

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Speaker 6: denomination of origin for mescal.

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Speaker 7: What about mescal? Where does that term come from?

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Speaker 6: Well, the term mescal or mescali, as it's known in

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Speaker 6: Naguat the language of the Aztecs, means cocta gave, and

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Speaker 6: it was originally a catch all term for any agave.

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Speaker 4: Based looker speaking a Sawahakan. I know mescal is embedded

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Speaker 4: in our culture and it's as important as corn, beans

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Speaker 4: and squash. And there's evidence that shows that at least

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Speaker 4: one form of mescal has been consumed for over ten

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Speaker 4: thousand years. Wahaka, which is in the southern part of Mexico,

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Speaker 4: produces ninety percent of all mescal made in the country,

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Speaker 4: and it accounts for eighty percent of all exportation.

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Speaker 1: You break it Alan metal central product.

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Speaker 4: It's a real little cha jobs part.

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Speaker 6: Well, I've visited many of distilleries or pilenkas as we

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Speaker 6: call them, and I've spoken to many of my mescalleros

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Speaker 6: who are the masters of the mescale making process. They

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Speaker 6: work on every step of the production, from farming to

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Speaker 6: the harvesting, cooking and fermenting to distilling.

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Speaker 7: Huh, it sounds like mescale is not easy to make.

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Speaker 7: When the plant is.

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Speaker 3: Ready, you go to where it is it can be

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Speaker 3: the fields of the mountains, and then you shave the

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Speaker 3: leaves off of it. And when you shave the leaves

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Speaker 3: off of the plant, you just left with the core

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Speaker 3: of the plant that has the shape of a pineapple.

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Speaker 3: So that's why they call it pina because it looks

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Speaker 3: like a manammal.

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Speaker 4: This is on Mara Alonso, more popularly known as Wahaking,

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Speaker 4: a tour guide and cultural ambassador in Wohacka. I talked

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Speaker 4: to him about the process of making mescale.

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Speaker 7: The cooking process. They call it the because they cover it.

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Speaker 3: So it's usually made in a conic oven has the

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Speaker 3: shape of a cone. It's about three to four meters deep.

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Speaker 3: They throw rocks that they collect.

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Speaker 7: From the mountains or from the rivers.

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Speaker 3: They throw rocks and they at fired to it and

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Speaker 3: they're gonna let it sit for about five to eight hours.

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Speaker 3: They're gonna wait for the rocks to get red hot.

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Speaker 3: Once the rocks are red hot, they use fiber of

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Speaker 3: a gave that has been previously distilled. They put it

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Speaker 3: on top of the rocks and they wet it. They

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Speaker 3: wear it so the rocks don't touch the plants, otherwise

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Speaker 3: it's gonna burn them, so like cushion in between rocks

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Speaker 3: and the plants.

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Speaker 4: They'll then throw the pin as into the pit and

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Speaker 4: add yet another fiber of a gave before covering it

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Speaker 4: with some plastic or dirt, forming some sort of mountain.

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Speaker 3: From the moment you start to clean up the oven

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Speaker 3: until the moment you're ready to cover it takes about

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Speaker 3: fifteen to twenty hours.

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Speaker 4: Then they'll let the agave cook underground for about five

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Speaker 4: to six days before removing the dirt and the plastic

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Speaker 4: to take out the fiber of the agave. After that

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Speaker 4: to cook the pinias and let them pull off for

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Speaker 4: a couple of days or a couple of weeks. Even

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Speaker 4: then comes the process of smashing the cook pina.

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Speaker 3: Some of them use a tona, which is the circular

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Speaker 3: rock that is pulled by a horse or by a

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Speaker 3: donkey and circles and in other regions they do it

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Speaker 3: more traditionally, mashing it by hand.

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Speaker 4: Once that process is complete, they put the fiber and

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Speaker 4: the juices of the agave into the wooden fermentation tanks

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Speaker 4: for approximately five days, and finally they distill it in

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Speaker 4: clay pots or copper steals twice.

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Speaker 3: From the moment the plant starts to grow, and sometimes

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Speaker 3: you have to wait twenty years for a plant to

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Speaker 3: be ready, and then you have to dig it out

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Speaker 3: to take it to the through the whole process to

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Speaker 3: make a mescale. And at the end, out of that

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Speaker 3: plan that took twenty years to grow, you're going to

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Speaker 3: get less than this in mescal, you know. And then

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Speaker 3: when you drink it, it's like eight hours of these

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Speaker 3: guys mashing it hand, you know, seven days in the fermentation,

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Speaker 3: two days in the distillation, you know, and it's like

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Speaker 3: you learn.

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Speaker 7: To appreciate it.

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Speaker 4: Had kind of an idea of the production process, but

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Speaker 4: by the way he described it, it is more difficult

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Speaker 4: than I thought. And I don't think people stop to

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Speaker 4: think about that when they are taking shots of mescale.

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Speaker 6: Yes. Since before I moved to my family's ancestral land

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Speaker 6: this past year, I've been critically researching brands and the

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Speaker 6: sustainable and social impacts of the boomy mescal industry due

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Speaker 6: to all of the work and resources that go into

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Speaker 6: the production process. For example, espadin agave is the most

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Speaker 6: commonly used dgave plant to produce mescale. Espadin only takes

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Speaker 6: about five years to mature, compared with let's say agavezilvestres

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Speaker 6: or wild agavez, which in take up to twenty years

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Speaker 6: to mature. Espadin is just one of the handful of

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Speaker 6: agaves that can be formed, and that's the easiest to

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Speaker 6: make mescale with and eventually export to the US, the

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Speaker 6: world's number one international buyer of mescal. A lot of

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Speaker 6: the rich in distinct flavors and aromas of mescales depends

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Speaker 6: largely on the type of magae agave is used, and

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Speaker 6: we are seeing that the over harvesting and production of

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Speaker 6: agavez silvestres is leading to scarcity and even possible extinction

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Speaker 6: of some variations like agabelda and fukrea matduali. Many of

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Speaker 6: these agavez are harvested off the sides of the mountains

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Speaker 6: where they naturally grow, but very few producers are reforced

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Speaker 6: in the zagavez. Let's listen to Gonzalo Martinez, a fourth

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Speaker 6: generation marom mescalero from Santiago Matatlana, Matatlan, the world capital

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Speaker 6: of mescal.

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Speaker 8: Crouque falta mass mescal qula hinti quin mas in masque

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Speaker 8: burguesilosis pola parte economic gestas in contra tradition.

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Speaker 6: He says that there needs to be more of a

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Speaker 6: mescale culture so people understand more so they are more

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Speaker 6: passionate producing it. Only for the money goes against the culture.

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Speaker 8: Those pocos cain and del mintie vida histe yoia millenaria

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Speaker 8: sono los qilo as in nol medillos campos losquillo producing

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Speaker 8: zinco percento real mintez.

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Speaker 6: For Gonzalo, the few who understand this millinary beverage are

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Speaker 6: those who are in the fields. It's really physically taxing

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Speaker 6: to make mescal, he says, adding that maybe just five

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Speaker 6: or ten percent of all producers are really passionate about

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Speaker 6: this beverage.

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Speaker 8: Gabe to the calo no de todos olimpia man no

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Speaker 8: no metemos pesticidas.

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Speaker 6: He says that they grow agabez the same way that

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Speaker 6: their grandparents did, everything by hand, never with pesticides. Gonzalo

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Speaker 6: also highlights another issue, which is water. He says that

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Speaker 6: ten years ago there were maybe twenty producing distilleries in

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Speaker 6: Santego mat atlant but you can out for more than

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Speaker 6: seventy percent of all Wahaka's total mescale production. But virtually

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Speaker 6: every family in town and many across the Vaya Central

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Speaker 6: where Matatlan is located, live off the production of mescal.

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Speaker 6: Driving along the Ruta Camino the Mescal on International Highway

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Speaker 6: one ninety, you'll spot hundreds of producers and agave farms.

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Speaker 6: So that means that basically everybody is digging to extract

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Speaker 6: water from the same vital.

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Speaker 8: Sourcevida stellas, pilas puss or jenos salios.

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Speaker 6: Gonzalo says that if they don't rain in the mass

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Speaker 6: production of mescal, it will get out of hand if

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Speaker 6: it hasn't already, and he's not exaggerating. Water is scarce

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Speaker 6: in my municipality, where we have running water only twice

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Speaker 6: a week. Rain and water are an everyday conversation here.

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Speaker 6: Santego Matatlan and its water rights work under USO's costumbres,

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Speaker 6: the indigenous system of community governance that still stronghold and

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Speaker 6: many communities in the state. Each community has its different roles, rules,

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Speaker 6: and services. You basically must be born into the community

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Speaker 6: to share the land, rights and privileges.

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Speaker 8: Imprison Scarbanoposos.

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Speaker 6: He says that water is a very big problem with

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Speaker 6: large companies digging deep deposits.

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Speaker 4: And while producing a bottle of mescale consumes all local resources,

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Speaker 4: gains from its sales do not necessarily stay in Wahaka.

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Speaker 4: Very few of the brands with the funds to export

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Speaker 4: to the US are Mexican producers. Many outsourced some, if

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Speaker 4: not all, of their mescale making, from farming to distilling

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Speaker 4: and even bottling and labeling. Some large companies purchase mescale

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Speaker 4: from small producers while they bottle it and label it

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Speaker 4: for the US markets and exporters have an increasing pool

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Speaker 4: to choose from. Mexico's production of mescale double from one

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Speaker 4: million liters in twoenty fourteen to almost two million liters

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Speaker 4: in twenty sixteen, and by twenty nineteen, almost five million

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Speaker 4: liters were being exported. In twenty twenty alone, seventy percent

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Speaker 4: of all mescalic sports went to the US.

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Speaker 6: The farmers I've talked to did not want to go

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Speaker 6: on record to name the brands that they worked for

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Speaker 6: out of pure financial repercussion. Still, many of them say

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Speaker 6: that they believe that these companies that distance themselves from

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Speaker 6: the ancestral earth to bottle process are contributing to the

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Speaker 6: degradation of not only the way of life, but an

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Speaker 6: entire ecosystem. Never mind that the rising cost is already

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Speaker 6: making mescale more expensive for locals to consume.

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Speaker 2: Stilish minup Forarian Nitruterana.

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Speaker 6: Mescale is an inheritance, like the Sapotech language spoken by

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Speaker 6: Maestro Mescalleros and Matatlan two sal. The minimum wage in

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Speaker 6: Guahata is only one hundred and forty one vessels a day,

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Speaker 6: which is a little bit more than six dollars. Although

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Speaker 6: many locals purchase at gradell folk mesguide by the Leader,

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Speaker 6: the price of mescal is becoming inaccessible for locals. Twelve

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Speaker 6: years ago, a bottle of mescale would cost you on

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Speaker 6: average of two hundred and forty one vessels. Today, in

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Speaker 6: twenty twenty one, a bottle of mescale sells for over

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Speaker 6: five hundred vessels.

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Speaker 4: Wow, so that means they have to go to work

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Speaker 4: the whole day to buy a single bottle of mescale.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, now, imagine the costs of preserving are cultural practices

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Speaker 6: where traditions call for everybody, no matter your income, to

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Speaker 6: bring leaders of mescal along with other offerings to celebrations.

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Speaker 6: So a sacred gathering like a funeral easily requires that

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Speaker 6: about one hundred liters of mis guite. Not only is

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Speaker 6: it not sustainable for the land to maintain its current

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Speaker 6: level of production, regular people home economies can't keep up

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Speaker 6: with the prices either. Many small and generational producers do

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Speaker 6: not have the means to regulate and attain the official

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Speaker 6: non normal Ficial Mexicana, the official Mexican standard certification for exportation.

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Speaker 6: The application itself costs over one hundred and sixty four dollars.

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Speaker 6: That doesn't include marketing, bottling, or regulation, opening up mescale

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Speaker 6: makers to sometimes predatory investors. So yeah, Juan Diego, as

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Speaker 6: you see, there's more to mescale than just its unique taste.

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Speaker 4: Okay, realie. So let's go back to where the story started.

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Speaker 4: How can we explain the journey of mescale from Wajaka

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Speaker 4: to New York City, Los Angeles, or via Instagram anywhere

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Speaker 4: in the world for that matter.

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Speaker 6: Well, some people would be surprised to hear that there

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Speaker 6: was a time when mescale was looked down on, seeing

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Speaker 6: as a beverage for the poor, drunk almost exclusively by

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Speaker 6: the indigenous people who never start drinking it. It was

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Speaker 6: relatively recent that mescal began experiencing a popularity boom in

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Speaker 6: Mexico and a cross borders. Mescale bars and Mescale cocktails

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Speaker 6: are found in every city, particularly in the US, thanks

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Speaker 6: in part to social media and its horizon mixology. In

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Speaker 6: the city of Long Beach, California, the line for a

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Speaker 6: mescalero a Mescale bar seemed to have never died down

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Speaker 6: despite the pandemic. Las Perlas Madre Nativo in La are

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Speaker 6: some of the many Mescale bars that pop up in

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Speaker 6: my daily feed. Mescala has even made it to Hollywood

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Speaker 6: due to those padin a mescal brand created by Brian

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Speaker 6: Craston and Aaron Paul, the co stars of AMC's hit

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Speaker 6: TV show Breaking Bad. But of course, the US connection

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Speaker 6: goes far beyond filtered photos on Instagram right.

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Speaker 4: Many mescalletos and farm workers were forced to migrate to

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Speaker 4: the US in the eighties and nineties after NAFTA, the

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Speaker 4: North American Free Trade Agreement, undervalue their agricultural products. This

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Speaker 4: contributed to the growth of the Mexican and documented population,

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Speaker 4: which went from one point three million in the nineteen

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Speaker 4: eighties to five point seven million in nineteen ninety five.

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Speaker 4: It was almost impossible to make a living from the

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Speaker 4: production and selling of mescal in Mexico. So when you

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Speaker 4: take all this into account, it's easy to argue that

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Speaker 4: mescal's popularity in the US is a direct result of

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Speaker 4: the cultural exchange that came with that migration.

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Speaker 2: Yes, of course, my dad grew up in a big family,

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Speaker 2: ten siblings, and he's one of the oldest. You know,

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Speaker 2: back then, there weren't many opportunities like there's opportunities right now,

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Speaker 2: like selling mescal. That mescal wasn't popular. Mescal wasn't like

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Speaker 2: something that you could have just sell and make a

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Speaker 2: living out of it. So he decided that one day

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Speaker 2: he wanted a better future. Right in the eighties, he

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Speaker 2: micro here in the United States.

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Speaker 6: This is a lot for Lopez, who resides in the US.

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Speaker 6: He is the US Director of Operations for Lopereal Miscyle

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Speaker 6: in Santa Monica, California. His father Mario Lopez was a

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Speaker 6: Maestro Mescallero, the expert Mescale maker for Loperreal Mescale until

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Speaker 6: February of this year, when he unfortunately passed away from

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Speaker 6: COVID nineteen. While in the US, the Mario worked in

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Speaker 6: La Kitchens, saving to open what eventually became the palleenke Lopereal.

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Speaker 2: We have our own agabet plantations, We have our own distillery.

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Speaker 2: Everything is within the family. We do not source from

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Speaker 2: all the distilleries. We do not buy from other agavi growers.

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Speaker 2: This is completely family oriented company.

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Speaker 6: In recent years, however, he's seen how businesses have exploded.

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Speaker 2: Ever since Mescal took this booming, a lot of families

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Speaker 2: started to produce for a lot of brands. They're outsiders

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Speaker 2: that go and buy the juice and just battle it

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Speaker 2: with a different name, with a different brand, with a

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Speaker 2: different story. It is good and bad. It's good because

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Speaker 2: you know, it creates jobs and it creates opportunities. But

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Speaker 2: at the same time, it's also a downside because they

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Speaker 2: just work for other brands. They just work for other

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Speaker 2: companies or for several companies.

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Speaker 6: But being truly independent isn't easy.

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Speaker 2: It takes a lot of work and a lot of

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Speaker 2: effort and a lot of time that goes into creating

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Speaker 2: a brand, you know, creating and starting a brand. And

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Speaker 2: even when you have all of that, then what how

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Speaker 2: do you sell it? And I think that's very hard

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Speaker 2: and a lot of people don't have that opportunity. You know,

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Speaker 2: it gets expensive along the way with everything that goes

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Speaker 2: into it.

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Speaker 6: My fear, and I think you share this with me

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Speaker 6: Guan Diego, is that the international appreciate of Mescal's threatening

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Speaker 6: the indigenous sovereignty land in people who resiliently kept mescal

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Speaker 6: living before it was hit. It's impossible for populations experiencing

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Speaker 6: poverty to turn down every opportunity that provides on funding now,

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Speaker 6: regardless of the depletion, pollution, and future repercussions.

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Speaker 7: So I really, what can we do to become better consumers?

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Speaker 6: Well, you have to drink responsibly, educate yourself. Don't be

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Speaker 6: afraid to ask your bartender who produced your miscyle and

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Speaker 6: where it came from. With the bottles label which includes

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Speaker 6: basic information about the mescal that you're about to drink,

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Speaker 6: like the name of the metro Mescale little remember that

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Speaker 6: there's more to Mescale than just the liquid. It's ancestral knowledge.

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Speaker 6: Here's a lottle f again.

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Speaker 2: I think there's so much story, there's so much history,

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Speaker 2: there's so much culture, there's so much tradition. Every time

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Speaker 2: you sip, every time you smell, and every time you taste,

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Speaker 2: mescale has start in itself.

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Speaker 6: So yeah, cheers Salu gishbell that means cheers, and Mattatlan

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Speaker 6: gspel gispel ndeto.

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Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Juan Diego Ramirez and Arelli Morales.

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Speaker 1: It was edited by Andrea Lopez Gruzsado and mixed by

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Speaker 1: Leashan Dmran. The Latino USA team includes Marta Martinez, Mike Sergent,

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Speaker 1: Julieta Martinelli, Victoria Strada, Patricia s Ulbaran Gini montalbo Alejandra

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Speaker 1: salasad Rinaldo, Leanos Junior, and Julia Rocha, with help from

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Speaker 1: Raoul Perez. Our editorial director is Julio Ricardo Barella. Our

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Speaker 1: supervising senior engineer is Stephanie l Bo. Our assistant senior

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Speaker 1: engineer is Julia Caruso, with help from gabriel A Byez.

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Speaker 1: Our digital editor is Luis Luna. Our New York Women's

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Speaker 1: Foundation IGNA fellow is mari es Kinka. Our theme music

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Speaker 1: was composed by Signor Rubinos. If you like the music

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Speaker 1: you heard on this episode, stop by Latinousa dot org

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Speaker 1: and check out our weekly Spotify playlist. I'm your host

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Speaker 1: and executive producer Marino Hossa. Join us again on our

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Speaker 1: next episode and in the meantime find us on all

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Speaker 1: of your social media by Loosbo Pastela Proxima Ciao.

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Speaker 9: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Ford Foundation,

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Speaker 9: working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide,

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Speaker 9: the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation and the

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Speaker 9: wind Coat Foundation.

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Speaker 1: Is Salute everyone, gishbeo. I'm Marieo Hossa. Next time on

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Speaker 1: Latino USA, our award winning series from twenty twenty when

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Speaker 1: I traveled to the US Mexico border, starting in Lpaso

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Speaker 1: and then Sea partist for part one of the Moving.

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Speaker 5: Border VI Presive Alias Persona.

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Speaker 3: Nos gamos and the Lumero lisen mil patrocentos bentio jo.

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Speaker 1: That's next time on that in the USA.

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Speaker 6: Mm hmm.