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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace hell Picks pictures straight from Hell.

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Speaker 1: Horrific photos from inside the brutal Idaho murders of four

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Speaker 1: beautiful young University Idaho students. Why were those photos leaked

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Speaker 1: on the Idaho State Police website and then quickly scrubbed away? Hello,

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Speaker 1: everybody saw it. This after Brian Coberger slaughters innocent students.

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Speaker 1: The parents sue, do you blame them? I'm Nancy Grece.

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Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us inside the Brian Coburger murder scene. The

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Speaker 1: truth of what happened that night when four beautiful University

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Speaker 1: Idaho students were slaughtered in their own beds.

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Speaker 2: This would have been a blood bask where they were killed.

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Speaker 1: Now, the family that's still dealing with the brutal murder

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Speaker 1: of their children are having to take on a fight,

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Speaker 1: so these vile photos are not released. What in the

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Speaker 1: hay haven't the victim's families been through enough? I cannot

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Speaker 1: imagine last night, under immense pressure for our program to

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Speaker 1: show the photos. I looked at them. I had to

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Speaker 1: get on the phone with our investigative reporter, Dave Mack,

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Speaker 1: and actually broke down and cried looking at these photos,

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Speaker 1: and there is no way in h double l that

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Speaker 1: we're going to go along with leaked photos that just

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Speaker 1: destroy the families. I saw only one probative photo off

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Speaker 1: what was leaked. The rest was just gore. One probative

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Speaker 1: photo that actually meant something, that proved something, and that

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Speaker 1: was the location of the life Sheath. Joining me right

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Speaker 1: now to very special guests, the parents of the beautiful

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Speaker 1: Keilly Gonsolvis. Thank you to both of you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. It means so much that at this moment,

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Speaker 1: when you are under siege again again, that you take

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Speaker 1: time to be with us tonight. So thank you. I've

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Speaker 1: got so much to talk to you about. Of course,

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Speaker 1: Brian Coberger's sister does a New York Times article whining

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Speaker 1: about how hurt she is and the paint her family's

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Speaker 1: going through. Really, but before I get to her, what

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Speaker 1: about these photos? When did you now? This is what

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Speaker 1: we're learning, Christy, We are learning that the Idho State

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Speaker 1: Police put these on their website and then quickly row

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Speaker 1: and scrub the whole thing. They were linked onto the website.

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Speaker 1: What did what happened when you first learned these pictures

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Speaker 1: from Hell Hell had been released.

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Speaker 3: Well, actually, one of the Idaho State Police detectives called

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Speaker 3: Olivia and I told her that the photos were coming

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Speaker 3: out and they were a different entity as the other

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Speaker 3: ones were that were underneath the order that the laramies

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Speaker 3: and the chapins one.

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Speaker 4: Being able to not show bodies.

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Speaker 3: Or blood, and these were going to be a little different.

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Speaker 3: The bodies were going to be redacted, but the crime

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Speaker 3: scene was going to be pretty evident.

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Speaker 4: So this entity called Olivia.

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Speaker 3: By the time she got off the phone, she was

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Speaker 3: calling me in a panic and telling me that they

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Speaker 3: were coming out. They were coming out, and they were out.

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Speaker 3: They were already on the website. Olivia is pretty adamant about,

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Speaker 3: you know, viewing things and wants to know what's out there.

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Speaker 3: She doesn't just want to come problem something and be surprised.

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Speaker 3: So somewhere along the line, it was very apparent that

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Speaker 3: there were three pictures that showed the victims that did

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Speaker 3: not get redacted, and it came down. It came down

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Speaker 3: because there were three, but whoever had downloaded those in

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Speaker 3: that time frame before, I don't know how long it was.

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Speaker 4: Up have those pictures of actual victims.

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Speaker 5: So it's very sad this whole thing has turned into

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Speaker 5: a profit making enterprise. The day before they told us

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Speaker 5: that because somebody complained, they did foia requests that the

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Speaker 5: families were getting the photos. At the same time, we

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Speaker 5: no longer get the photos. We never get We don't

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Speaker 5: get any of the discovery from these images or anything

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Speaker 5: that's been a foyer request. They get it first, and

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Speaker 5: then we can we can get it after them.

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Speaker 1: Did you see a photo with the students. I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to choose my words carefully, but I don't have another

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Speaker 1: way to say it. Did you see photos crime scene photos? Horrific,

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Speaker 1: bloody crime scene photos with the victims' bodies in the photos.

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Speaker 1: Did you see that? Unfortunately, yes, I don't understand why

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Speaker 1: they can't ever do the right thing. Steve. They did

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Speaker 1: not take this case to trial. They did not find

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Speaker 1: out the truth. This was a death penalty case. If

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Speaker 1: we're going to have the death penalty, this is it.

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Speaker 1: They took a week, plea, we never learned the whole truth.

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Speaker 1: They wouldn't do the right thing, and now this they

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Speaker 1: are buckling under to a four year request, but they

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Speaker 1: don't even have the courtesy to give it to you first.

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Speaker 1: When did they pick and choose when to follow the law.

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Speaker 5: Well, yeah, just to the other family that ever goes

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Speaker 5: through a case like this, just know they're going to

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Speaker 5: lie to you. They're going to tell you, in your

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Speaker 5: weakest moment that if you just wanted to make it

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Speaker 5: go away, just go along with the pleague, just go along,

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Speaker 5: and all the stuff will go away. And I had

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Speaker 5: legal counsel and they were like, that's not going to

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Speaker 5: go away. See, they're just lying to these families, trying

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Speaker 5: to divide them so that they can get at least

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Speaker 5: somebody to agree with what they're doing, and then that's

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Speaker 5: all they need. Even though there's four victims and you

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Speaker 5: can get a death penalty for one, they wanted to

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Speaker 5: break us apart to help their narrative. And we're still

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Speaker 5: dealing with it. You know, we're still dealing with right now.

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Speaker 1: Well, I've got to tell you something, mister and missus Consolvis.

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Speaker 1: After my fiancee was murdered, of course, I was a

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Speaker 1: witness at the trial, and I remember coming down off

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Speaker 1: the witness stand. I had never been in a courtroom.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know anything about the justice system at all.

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Speaker 1: When I came off the witness stand, it was way

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Speaker 1: high up by the judge's head came down. Then there

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Speaker 1: was a landing, then there were more steps to come down,

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Speaker 1: and I walked out and I looked over it and

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Speaker 1: I saw a kid's bloody shirt. And I was just

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Speaker 1: a young girl. But I will never forget that moment.

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Speaker 1: I had not seen it. I didn't know about it.

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Speaker 1: I knew what he was wearing that morning when he left.

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Speaker 1: It was a denim shirt to go to his job

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Speaker 1: at a construction site. But I had not seen did

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Speaker 1: not see any of the evidence until I saw that

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Speaker 1: his bloody clothes lying on the council table, And that

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Speaker 1: one moment has crystallized in my mind after all these years.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know how you can even close your

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Speaker 1: eyes and go to sleep at night after you've seen

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Speaker 1: the crime scene photos that were leaped and then scrubbed

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Speaker 1: on the police site. What did that do to you? Christy?

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Speaker 3: So so you know, I chose to.

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Speaker 4: Look very quickly.

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Speaker 3: Unfortunately sometimes it just gets me other times, I know,

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Speaker 3: but I was like, I got, you know, and it

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Speaker 3: was I did not look a lot. I did not look,

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Speaker 3: you know, for long. I pretty much was out of there,

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Speaker 3: like quickly. But it's hard to unsee and I knew that,

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Speaker 3: I knew that.

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Speaker 1: I knew it would happen.

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Speaker 5: What about it, Steve, I haven't seen very many on

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Speaker 5: The ones that I've seen are just ones that my

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Speaker 5: family wanted me to comment on if if if it

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Speaker 5: was as bad as you know, basically show me seeing

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Speaker 5: the victims in embody bags, things that are they're not entertainment.

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Speaker 5: I mean, they're they're for investigations. They're there, and if

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Speaker 5: you're not going to have a child, you really don't

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Speaker 5: have the same investigation at that point. It's not a

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Speaker 5: need to know, it's not the community and you're not

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Speaker 5: having a jury. So it's it's kind of frustrating that

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Speaker 5: we're still still doing.

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Speaker 3: And you know, we get a lot of heat over

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Speaker 3: this because people say, you guys are no different. It

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Speaker 3: is very common for crime scene photos to come out.

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Speaker 4: I get that. I understand that.

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Speaker 3: I feel bad for those families that their loved ones

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Speaker 3: are out there.

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Speaker 4: And this has happened.

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Speaker 3: But I just feel like times are changing and what

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Speaker 3: people do with those photos nowadays is what the real

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Speaker 3: problem is. You know, blow them up on social media

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Speaker 3: and analyze them and talk to talk about them, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's not true crime anymore. It's troll crime, you know.

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Speaker 3: And that's where things are changing, and it has been

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Speaker 3: for quite a while.

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Speaker 5: They're making a profit off your your did loved ones

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Speaker 5: and that was good, yeah, and that was to a

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Speaker 5: lesser extent before. But like your organization isn't showing them,

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Speaker 5: You're not going to get that same kind of professionalism

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Speaker 5: in some of these smaller true crimes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, crime stories with Nancy Grace. I remember years ago

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Speaker 1: on what was it was my very first book. It

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Speaker 1: was called Objection, and I wrote a chapter on called

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Speaker 1: blood Money, and I was so stunned that people got

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Speaker 1: a hold of Nicole Brown's autopsy photos and were selling them.

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Speaker 1: After I wrote that chapter blood Money, I had this

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Speaker 1: cheap little it was like a two hundred dollars laptop.

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Speaker 1: It's like this big that I wrote the book on.

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Speaker 1: When I finished that chapter, I had to look up

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Speaker 1: so many ghoulish examples of what we're talking about right now.

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Speaker 1: I swear I thought the computer had to be hanked

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Speaker 1: and I destroyed it because I had to write about

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Speaker 1: people buying crime scene photos and scraps from a crime

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Speaker 1: scene that were bloody and autopsy photos it's just ghoulish.

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Speaker 1: After you saw that, after you saw that, to both

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Speaker 1: of you, how did that affect you? Because I still

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Speaker 1: think back on that moment, I just saw a bloody shirt.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm not sure if I've really been able

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Speaker 3: to wrap my mind around it. Honestly, I showed I

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Speaker 3: don't believe you've actually looked at him on your own.

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Speaker 3: I showed Steve one and it was one of the

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Speaker 3: less graphic ones, and he was like, yeah. So unfortunately

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Speaker 3: I went there and I deeply regretted.

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Speaker 1: I knew I would. I I've got to tell you

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Speaker 1: something I learned, you know, the hard way. I'm very

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Speaker 1: curious by nature, but when it comes to my fiance's murder,

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Speaker 1: I've learned to control that my curiosity because I don't

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Speaker 1: want any more nightmares or any more night terrors or

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Speaker 1: sleepwalking or crying jags than I've already had. So I

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Speaker 1: just please know you are in our thoughts and our

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Speaker 1: prayers throughout this whole ordeal, and to put it up

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Speaker 1: and then scrub it shows a certain degree of knowledge

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Speaker 1: that you did the wrong thing. I want to talk

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Speaker 1: to you now about another coburger related incident. Listen now,

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Speaker 1: Coburger's sister.

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Speaker 6: Her name she goes by Mel, spoke to The New

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Speaker 6: York Times. This piece was published on Wednesday, January seventh.

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Speaker 6: The headline her brother murdered for students. Now she's ready

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Speaker 6: to talk. Well, I'm so happy that she now.

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Speaker 1: Feels ready to tell her story. The readout in the.

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Speaker 6: Online version says that Mel is going to talk about

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Speaker 6: the Coburger families, their pain, their confusion. You know this

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Speaker 6: thing happened the blink of an ie ago and when

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Speaker 6: you so this this piece is such a piece of

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Speaker 6: journalistic malpractice. The interviewer, the guy's name is Mike Baker.

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Speaker 6: He either does not know nor does he care to

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Speaker 6: read in to the details of this case. But instead

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Speaker 6: we've got crap like this in The New York Times.

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Speaker 1: Feel sorry for me.

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Speaker 6: My brother is a homicidal maniac who snuffed out four

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Speaker 6: young lives and seemed to enjoy doing it. And it

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Speaker 6: looks like my mom was an accessory after the fact.

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Speaker 1: Just my opinion.

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Speaker 6: But hey, we just want we just want to re

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Speaker 6: enter polite society.

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Speaker 1: Please, won't you help us? In The New York Times

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Speaker 1: says sure, why not? That is our friend Maureen Callahan

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Speaker 1: from her podcast The Nerve and Boy, she hit the

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Speaker 1: nail on the head. Really, Mail is whining to the

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Speaker 1: New York Times, and they're printing their puff pace about

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Speaker 1: her pain, her pain and her family's pain. Okay, that's

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Speaker 1: the time to keep your pie holes shut right there.

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Speaker 1: I would like your response to Coburger's family whining about

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Speaker 1: their pain.

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Speaker 3: You know, I think it's it's just odd that they would.

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Speaker 3: That's their first time they've chosen to speak out.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 3: Apparently they stand behind him, whether they believe the truth

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Speaker 3: or not. But they've they've never spoken out for his innocent.

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Speaker 3: They've never gone out there and said, you know, my

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Speaker 3: brother's innocent, he didn't do this.

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Speaker 4: He would never do such a thing.

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Speaker 3: But they come out and, you know, say, you know,

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Speaker 3: we're in this terrible situation.

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Speaker 4: Our family is hurting and whatnot.

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Speaker 3: And I don't doubt that their family is how some

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Speaker 3: sort of confusion pain.

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Speaker 4: I don't.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure that they aren't even compared. But it does

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Speaker 3: not compare at all. They could still talk to him,

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Speaker 3: they could write to him, they could go visit him.

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Speaker 5: He's my kids would be if one of my kids

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Speaker 5: did something like this, they would be did to our family,

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Speaker 5: we would not be supporting them that. We would not

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Speaker 5: be I tell all my kids, if you do something

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Speaker 5: that atrocious, even even like rape, it's something like that

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Speaker 5: where you overly go over somebody else as well, you're

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Speaker 5: done this family, We're not. We would never, we would

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Speaker 5: never put up with that. And this is we're talking

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Speaker 5: about nam. It's got like thirty thousand dollars. So you've

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Speaker 5: got to got to stand up and say the person's

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Speaker 5: wrong and then remove your support. Otherwise you're condoning what

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Speaker 5: he did and you're embracing it, and you're rewarding him

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Speaker 5: for that behavior. And that's why society has people like this,

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Speaker 5: and we will continue to have people like this because

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Speaker 5: we haven't just cut the rope and said you're done.

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Speaker 5: You did even though your life you're dead. To us.

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Speaker 3: It's hard to put ourselves in their shoes, because a

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Speaker 3: lot of people think they could put theirselves in our

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Speaker 3: shoes and speak on behalf of how they would act,

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Speaker 3: or they wouldn't have done what we did, or they

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Speaker 3: would have done this and that and this and that,

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Speaker 3: and until you're in these shoes, it's hard to really

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Speaker 3: say what you're going to do.

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Speaker 4: We think we know.

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Speaker 3: What we would do if the tables were reversed, so

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Speaker 3: it is hard to actually no, for sure. That's just

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Speaker 3: our opinion of how we feel.

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Speaker 1: Out the fac guys go on services. You're sitting down,

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Speaker 1: you may need to lay down. Quotes from Melissa Coburger

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Speaker 1: from The New York Times, brace yourself. I've always been

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Speaker 1: a person who has spoken up for what was right. Okay,

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Speaker 1: just right there, screeching, screeching stop. If I ever had

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Speaker 1: a reason to believe my brother did anything, I would

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Speaker 1: have turned them in. Okay. It's confusing, it's painful. It's

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Speaker 1: like being victimized but not really being a victim. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you're not a victim. You're not a victim, Melissa Coburger.

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Speaker 1: The idea is making me so emotional. I can barely

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Speaker 1: speak to you about it. It's human nature to be

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Speaker 1: curious about darker things. That's how we keep ourselves safe.

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Speaker 1: I think we should try to come together for a

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Speaker 1: true crime culture. What come together for a true crime culture? Now? Wait? Wait,

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Speaker 1: we're all so proud of him because he had overcome

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Speaker 1: so much. It was a heart surrounded by vibrant colors

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Speaker 1: that I had drawn from Brian, even if I cannot

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Speaker 1: be there in person, Okay, I stand up for what

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Speaker 1: is right. She actually said that, Christy, she said that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, I find it very hard to believe that

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Speaker 3: she doesn't know the truth, unless in that situation that

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Speaker 3: they're in, they just have a mental block that will

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Speaker 3: not allow them to accept what he did.

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Speaker 5: She said, in her own words, Brian, you're out at

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Speaker 5: like one, two, three in the morning.

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Speaker 4: Be careful running.

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Speaker 5: So if you know your brother's out, he has the

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Speaker 5: same car. You've got to share a family Amazon account.

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Speaker 5: You're seeing he has the weapon. So now he has

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Speaker 5: the weapon, the car, and he's out around that time,

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Speaker 5: and he lives close. Yeah, he's less than ten miles away.

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Speaker 5: Don't tell me you didn't know, or you didn't think

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Speaker 5: that he was assessment or why did you tell him

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Speaker 5: to quit journey.

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Speaker 1: According to her, the family knew nothing.

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Speaker 8: Listen covered your sister, Mel, saying her family had no

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Speaker 8: idea her brother was a killer and reached out to

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Speaker 8: warn him to be careful after the murders. Finally speaking out,

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Speaker 8: she wants to talk about growing up with the killer.

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Speaker 1: No one wants to hear about growing up with Brian Coburger.

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Speaker 1: But this does not bode well for her mental health

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Speaker 1: care career. If she lived with a psycho killer her

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Speaker 1: whole life and didn't notice anything was wrong, Okay, joining

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Speaker 1: me right now, Doctor Bethany Marshall. She's renound psychologist out

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Speaker 1: of the LA jurisdiction all of deal Breakers. You can

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Speaker 1: see her on peacock and you can find her at

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Speaker 1: doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall, I asked that

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Speaker 1: you tread very lightly while the Gonsoalvest family is with us,

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Speaker 1: but what is with this person? It's my understanding, and

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Speaker 1: you investigated reporters Susan a day, jump in if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 1: But she has a career in mental health care and

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Speaker 1: she lived with a psycho killer her whole life and

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Speaker 1: didn't notice a thing, that does not bode well.

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Speaker 9: No, there are so many reports about Brian Coburger that

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00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,399
Speaker 9: exposed the fact that he stalked, that the staff at

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Speaker 9: the university had meetings about him, there were complaints about him.

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Speaker 9: I'm sure he exhibited that same behavior at home. There's

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Speaker 9: a term the mask of sanity when it comes to psychopaths,

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Speaker 9: meaning that they wear the mask of sanity. They pretend

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Speaker 9: that they are more sane than they really are. But

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Speaker 9: Brian Coberger did not pretend, and he was saying it

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Speaker 9: was apparent to everybody around him. Why not mel And

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Speaker 9: the thing about Melissa, you know, in order to be

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Speaker 9: a therapist, you have to have profound empathy for others.

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Speaker 9: In her interview, she expresses no worthy for the families

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Speaker 9: of the victims.

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Speaker 1: Well, even giving the interview about her pain and her

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Speaker 1: family's pain. Okay, one thing before the Gonsolvests leave us,

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Speaker 1: I want to speak to them about what this woman

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Speaker 1: just said. Coburger's sister. The family had no idea, but

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Speaker 1: let me lay something out for you and then I

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Speaker 1: will explore it more in depth with the rest of

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Speaker 1: our panel. The phone records tell a very different story,

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Speaker 1: mister and missus Gonsolves, And I'm sure you already know this,

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Speaker 1: but for those that don't. For the phone records, the

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Speaker 1: murders of four beautiful students, including hell Egal Solves, occur

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Speaker 1: between four oh five and four to twenty am. Am

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Speaker 1: Coburger turns his phone off between two thirty and four

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Speaker 1: thirty eight m. He turns the phone back on on

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Speaker 1: his way from the crime scene back to his apartment

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Speaker 1: in Pullman, four forty five to five am. He immediately

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Speaker 1: starts calling his mother around six am, now he's just

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Speaker 1: turned his phone back on. Starts calling his mother over

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Speaker 1: and over and over and over obsessively. She doesn't pick up.

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Speaker 1: Maybe she's sleeping. Then, in a fit of anger, he

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Speaker 1: calls his father and says, why won't she picked up

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Speaker 1: the phone. Well, she picks up the phone quickly after that,

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Speaker 1: six seventeen. Calls mom on a phone call that lasts

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Speaker 1: thirty six minutes. Eight oh three. He is now driving

357
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Speaker 1: back to the crime scene to view his handywork. This

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Speaker 1: is very common amongst criminals. They returned to the crime scene.

359
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 1: Don't know why. Why does a dog make a circle

360
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Speaker 1: three times before it sits down? Don't know, but they do.

361
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Speaker 1: He calls Mommy speaks nearly an hour driving around the

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Speaker 1: crime scene. Did mom tell him to go back and

363
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Speaker 1: get that knife sheath? Did she advise him to confess

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Speaker 1: or not to speak? This is just one hundred and

365
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Speaker 1: twenty minutes after the murders and he's on the phone

366
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Speaker 1: with mommy. Nine am. He's back on the phone. What

367
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Speaker 1: were they talking about? Five phone calls over three hours

368
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Speaker 1: at the time, immediately after the murders to Steve and

369
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Speaker 1: Christi Consalvez. You want me to believe she knew nothing

370
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Speaker 1: and is sister is saved to the New York Times.

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Speaker 1: We had no idea, Really, what were they talking about?

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Speaker 1: Have you thought about this?

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Speaker 7: Ya?

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Speaker 5: We know more than just that. We know from some

375
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Speaker 5: of the stuff they pulled from his phone. She sent

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Speaker 5: him links to the story.

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Speaker 4: So not that same day, but shortly after.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, shortly after so yeah, yeah, and we know about

379
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Speaker 5: they gave the bowl out out on the car, and

380
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Speaker 5: then just within a day or two they start booking

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Speaker 5: a flight to go get him. And then he wasn't

382
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Speaker 5: coming back with that car. That whole trip to Pennsylvania

383
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 5: was to get rid of evidence his car and help

384
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Speaker 5: him clean it. As soon as he pulled up to

385
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Speaker 5: the house, Dad jumped out of the car, moved his

386
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Speaker 5: car out, and put his in the garage. So yeah,

387
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 5: there's more to that too, But there's only so much

388
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Speaker 5: we can focus on and so much we can work on.

389
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Speaker 5: But we're not fools.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean, and we do know that he

391
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Speaker 3: was wearing gloves inside the house almost the whole time.

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Speaker 3: Matter of fact, when they went in to arrest them,

393
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Speaker 3: he was indeed sitting at the kitchen table wearing gloves

394
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Speaker 3: sorting trash. Now, whether he was doing that, why the

395
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 3: family was all sleeping. I find it hard to believe

396
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Speaker 3: that they didn't notice that he was going around wearing gloves.

397
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 3: Maybe he was shorting trash only right, they were asleep

398
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 3: and they didn't notice that. But why are you just

399
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Speaker 3: walking around the house wearing gloves?

400
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Speaker 4: Why are you out there obsessively right?

401
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: Are there? Christy? You know this morning, as my daughter

402
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: was walking out, I went, hold on, you got a

403
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: white fuzzy attached to your leg and I went over

404
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: and got it off, and she walked out the door.

405
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Speaker 1: I noticed that they didn't notice he was wearing gloves

406
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Speaker 1: in the house.

407
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 4: They didn't want to notice.

408
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 5: It is what it is, sorting his garbage.

409
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Speaker 1: Those phone calls to me are damning. They're damning, And

410
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,640
Speaker 1: I wonder if the mother was ever questioned about what

411
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: the content of those phone calls, over and over and over,

412
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Speaker 1: going to the crime scene, going around and around and

413
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: around like vulture the crime is saying what were they

414
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 1: talking about? What's she questioned to the Gonsolvist family I

415
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: beg you not to look at the photos any further.

416
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 1: I beg you because it's going to be up here

417
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: the rest of your life. What is your message tonight,

418
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: mister missus gonsolve.

419
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Speaker 3: You know, it really is just, you know, with society

420
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 3: changing the way it is and people so many people

421
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 3: having access to it via the Internet and being able

422
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Speaker 3: to get these pictures, they fall in the wrong hands and.

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Speaker 5: It's just everybody's a news network, but they don't have

424
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Speaker 5: the education to be.

425
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Speaker 4: I'm an eighteen year old TikToker, you know, getting them.

426
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 5: Out there and just to the right at eighteen either.

427
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Speaker 5: So it's just our leaders have to be better than.

428
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Speaker 3: This, and we are no different than than people in

429
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Speaker 3: the past. I'm not trying to say that we're better,

430
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 3: and but things need to change. It's a time to

431
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Speaker 3: change this.

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Speaker 1: You know what, For the first time ever, mister missus

433
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Speaker 1: Gone's solvice, I completely disagree with you. I think right

434
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: is right and wrong is wrong, and there's no excuse

435
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: for that. There it's no excuse for hurting the victims'

436
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: families for your own monetary gain, for a moment, for

437
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 1: another clique, for a higher rating. That just it's wrong.

438
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: As I tell I've told my children, if it feels wrong,

439
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 1: it is wrong. There's something wrong. When you feel like

440
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: is this right, It's not right. When you feel those

441
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: tingles or you feel hot, when you're saying something or

442
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 1: doing something, stop because it's wrong and your conscience is

443
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: telling you that's wrong. So I can't explain it away

444
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: with the times they be a changing that doesn't cut

445
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: it with me. But please note tonight you are in

446
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: our prayers as always, and thank you for joining us.

447
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: Thank you for having us convicted. Quadruple killer Brian Coburg

448
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: Erlad guilty to slaughtering four people that he thought he

449
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 1: would find a sleep in their beds, four beautiful University

450
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: Idaho students, these.

451
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 2: Final moments that they have just screaming for life, screaming

452
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 2: for air.

453
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 1: I can't stress enough the brutality of the crime scene

454
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: photos and to revictimize these victims and their families.

455
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 8: Family of Coburger's victims shocked by graphic crime scene photos

456
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 8: released to the public with little warning. They were made

457
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 8: aware of the release just hours before. The photos show

458
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 8: the bedrooms where the murders took place, clearly showing blood

459
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 8: spatter on the walls, blood dripping on the beds, and

460
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 8: blood smears on the floor where a battle of life

461
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 8: and death took place. Photo showed the knife sheath Coburger

462
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,239
Speaker 8: left behind him Mattie's bed, the piece of evvige ins

463
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 8: that put Coberger in the room when the murders took place.

464
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 8: Photos show the floor and walls with blood smeared, sheets

465
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 8: drenched with blood, the spatter, smears and dripping, showing the

466
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 8: brutality of the horrific murders and the battle that took place.

467
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: Joining me in All Star Panelty makes sense of what

468
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: we were learning tonight. First the photos. The only photo

469
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 1: that I saw of any probitive value wait for and

470
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 1: I'm not going to it yet, is the knife she

471
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: found under a victim's body. To Dave Mack joining me

472
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: Crime Stori's investigative reporter. We went through the photos one

473
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:43,239
Speaker 1: by one last night and it was heartbreaking. Describe what

474
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: you saw, Nancy.

475
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 8: I am so thankful of the decision you've made to

476
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 8: not show the photos. What I saw was worse than

477
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 8: anything I imagined throughout all of our coverage of this

478
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 8: and all I could when I saw the blood in

479
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 8: the bedrooms and I mean, we're talking on the floor,

480
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 8: on the beds, on the walls. We're not talking about

481
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 8: a car accident. We are talking about girls being borifically

482
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 8: murdered by coburger and what we're looking at. There was

483
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 8: one of the photos, Nancy, They shows one of the

484
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 8: girl's hair in the blood, and all I could think

485
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 8: of was my own daughters. And all I could think

486
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 8: of was the families being subjected to this for what

487
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 8: fury and interest. The blood is worse than we were told.

488
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: Oh, it's much worse than what we thought we were

489
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: going to see. Justin Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensicks,

490
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University with an incredible criminal procedure program, author

491
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet, star of Body Bags. With

492
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, we're going to hit podcast. Joe Scott, how

493
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: many times was Kelly stabbed in the face the gun

494
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: solve us as a daughter to the point her tea

495
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: or stab out of her mouth?

496
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's in excess of twenty. And here's the problem.

497
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 2: You can't actually count them accurately because there's cross communication

498
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 2: between the injuries, Nancy, that kind of overlap. That's how

499
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 2: much damage was done, and the level of brutality, you know,

500
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 2: is something that you know is going to ring in

501
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 2: our ears forever and ever because we've all heard this before,

502
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 2: but now because of a decision that has been made

503
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 2: relative to this imagery, it it refocuses in a very

504
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 2: ghoulish way against the wishes of the family. And Nancy,

505
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 2: I got to tell you something you know here, Jack State,

506
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 2: I work with current and former practitioners. That means that

507
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 2: we're all instigaters, current forensic scientists, and you know, Nancy,

508
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 2: to a person when I pull them, I ask them,

509
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 2: have do you, guys, to the best of your recollection,

510
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 2: recall homicide that you have worked that has been adjudicated

511
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 2: and the subject is in an institution somewhere, and then

512
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 2: after this, all of the crime scene images are released

513
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,239
Speaker 2: by your organization or the DA or whoever it is.

514
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 2: To a person that couldn't recall a single instance, Nancy,

515
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 2: I worked in New Orleans and Atlanta, and from an

516
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 2: official standpoint, I don't ever recall. Now that doesn't mean

517
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 2: that there haven't been leaked things over the years, but

518
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 2: this goes so far beyond the pale that this can

519
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 2: be linked back to these people out there that seem

520
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 2: to have a complete disconnect with reality.

521
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: I don't understand what is wrong with these people. Dr

522
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: Bethanie Marshall. Why why the release and then quickly scrub

523
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: it off the screen knowing they did a bad thing,

524
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: not telling the parents in advance. They have to find out.

525
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: And then the people that are enjoying looking at them,

526
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: the Gonsoltists pointed out, I'm gonna double check with Susan Hendrix.

527
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: The gonsolviist is pointed out, this is no longer an investigation.

528
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: It's over. So why now what is there to prove

529
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: or disprove? Probatively it's over? And when Dave and I

530
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: were looking at the crime scene photos last night, Bethany,

531
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,479
Speaker 1: a lot of them are just the blood smeared on

532
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: the wall, on the floor where you can see there

533
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: was a struggle, a horrific struggle in blood and the

534
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: parents are gonna have to go. That's Killy's blood, that's

535
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: Maddie's blood, that's Ethan's blood. Just done with these people.

536
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 9: You know what's wrong, Nancy is there is profound just

537
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 9: regard for the families. In Mel's interviews in the police department,

538
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 9: whoever released those photos these are law enforcement, the people

539
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 9: who release the photos. They should know that there are

540
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 9: people out there with ghoulish interests in gore in crime,

541
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 9: and that these photos will be used in an exploitive

542
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 9: kind of way, you know, Nancy. In the DSM, the

543
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 9: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, it describes that

544
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 9: it's more traumatic to see a loved one hurt than

545
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 9: to be hurt yourself, all right, to see a loved

546
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 9: one stabbed in a car accident, and pain a loved

547
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 9: one with cancer, Because we human beings, we are wired

548
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 9: to connect. So how could the law enforcement not have

549
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 9: known that one little slip putting these photos out there,

550
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 9: and that they would spread like wildfire all over the internet.

551
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 9: And you know, these people who are in charge of

552
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 9: these ghoulish pictures, who are using them, exploiting them, they

553
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 9: have profound disregard for the family too.

554
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: It's just it's so sad. Joining me is Susan Hendricks,

555
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: investigative journalist, author of Down the Hill, My Descent into

556
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: the double murders in Delphi. Susan, how did this happen?

557
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: It wasn't just a standard sop release of crime scene

558
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 1: photos because it was placed up on the Idaho State

559
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,280
Speaker 1: Police website and then quickly scrubbed off what happened.

560
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 10: Nancy, that's the question. How did they get out? Were

561
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 10: they leaked, were they released? And quote unquote redacted if

562
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 10: you will. I mean, as we just heard, you could

563
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 10: see one of the victim's hair. It's unbelievable that the

564
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 10: families have to be re victimized again.

565
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: Well, you know to Chris mcdunne and joining US director

566
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:52,760
Speaker 1: Cole Case Foundation. Former homicide detective worked over three hundred

567
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: homicides over twenty five years and he's the star of

568
00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 1: a YouTube channel where I found him the interview room. Chris,

569
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. You and I have

570
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: walked the crime scene and been intimately involved with the

571
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: logistics of the murders. Chris, there's not a lot probative

572
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: that prove anything about many of these photos. They're ghoulish.

573
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 1: The one photo that I saw that proved anything to

574
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: me was the knife sheath. Let's see that, we've seen it,

575
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 1: We've heard about it. This shot there you see the

576
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: knife on the bed. The sheets are splattered with blood

577
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: and jo Scott Morgan can explain what those blood droplets mean.

578
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: This will be the only photos that we show of

579
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: these pictures from hell, Chris, This knife sheath changed, the trajectory,

580
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: changed the course of this investigation. Is it typical for

581
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 1: crime victims' families to have to look at the crime

582
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,879
Speaker 1: scene photos? I always tried to shield them, Chris.

583
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 7: Well, absolutely not, Nancy. It is not typical, and the

584
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 7: family has every right to feel outraged and shocked. I mean,

585
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 7: this is beyond the pale. What that knife sheet, though,

586
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,760
Speaker 7: it does tell us is that Hailey stalled this crime

587
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 7: by her fighting by her and we see that in

588
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 7: the blood evidence with doctor Morgan. We'll talk about here

589
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 7: in a minute, but what we see there is the

590
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 7: fact that he lost control because she gained control, and

591
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 7: that's the brutality that he had to deliver as a

592
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 7: result of that, and that's why that was night sheef.

593
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: Is there, Joscott Morgan? What do we see? What do

594
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,280
Speaker 1: those blood droplets on the bed? I think that's Matty

595
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 1: Morgan's bed where the knife is found. The knife sheet,

596
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: what do those droplets tell you?

597
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 2: Well, they're immediately adjacent to the sheet, which by the way,

598
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: is face down. The USMC is not visible on the sheath,

599
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 2: which we've heard a lot about. This is a k

600
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 2: bar sheath. The size of these droplets, Nancy, indicate to

601
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 2: me that there is some level of velocity or speed

602
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 2: in their deposition. So this is something that you're going

603
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 2: to see either in an action move. It's not like

604
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 2: passively dripping where you get the big drops. This is

605
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 2: coming off of the action of actually stabbing or casting

606
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 2: at that point in time. So they don't they don't

607
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 2: all have little tails on them, but you can see

608
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 2: that there is some level of velosity because the size

609
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 2: of these things, they're concentrated, they're very tiny.

610
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:47,439
Speaker 1: Tell me exactly what's going on one of our one

611
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: of the roommates who's.

612
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 11: Passed out and she's drung glass and it's not like

613
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 11: the up.

614
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: Oh and they saw some man in their house as night.

615
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 12: Yeah, in the patient.

616
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 8: Okay, need someone to keep the phone, stop passing it around.

617
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,479
Speaker 9: Can I just tell you what happened? Pretty much?

618
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 11: What is going on currently as someone passed out right now?

619
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 12: I don't really know what pretty much for him?

620
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 7: Okay, well, I need to know what's going on right now.

621
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 9: If someone has passed out, can you find that out? Yeah,

622
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 9: I'll come come on with them.

623
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 8: Check.

624
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: But we have to Brian Coberger pled guilty to four murders.

625
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,240
Speaker 1: They were worse than murders, they were slaughters. The nature

626
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: of the murders was more akin to a butchering a slaughtering.

627
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: Does it never end for the victims' families, but now

628
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 1: they have another fight on their hands trying to stop

629
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: vile images of their children in depth being released, and

630
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 1: tonight the parents sue Washington State University. Listen, that's really interesting.

631
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: If he had been thrown out, he wouldn't even been

632
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: there exactly.

633
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 5: Yep. He should have been thrown out before he ever

634
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 5: killed these kids. That's the truth. If they should have

635
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 5: set a standard and said, look, we don't put up

636
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 5: with this in our university. You crossed the line.

637
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 1: You're done.

638
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 5: It's not even our decision, it's just your behavior. We're

639
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 5: holding you accountable. You should behave like this. That's the

640
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 5: expectations in Washington State University. And you either do it

641
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 5: or you don't.

642
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 1: There were so many red flags, Listen, he.

643
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 3: Had thirteen in the first semester. The first one came

644
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 3: in August, that's the first month that you come to school,

645
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 3: and then twelve twelve after and November had a huge

646
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 3: Thanksgiving break and then he didn't even go the whole

647
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 3: month of December. He took off like December ninth or tenth.

648
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 3: And there's thirteen formal complaints.

649
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, what was wrong with w S Washington

650
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: State University? At least thirteen complaints by women by students.

651
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: It got so bad even a professor was complaining. I

652
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: think they thought they were going to get sued if

653
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: they fired Coburger. Well they're getting sued now because they

654
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: did nothing.

655
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 9: They had their eye on the wrong thing, Nancy. Even

656
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 9: one professor came forward and said, do not give this

657
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 9: guy a PhD. Because if you do, you will see

658
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 9: him in the news years from now he will have raped, murdered,

659
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,399
Speaker 9: killed somebody. So there were multiple people coming forward, and

660
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,720
Speaker 9: I do think the university was paralyzed at the thought

661
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 9: that Brian Coberger would sue them, and in fact, they

662
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 9: saw themselves as a potential victim, rather than thinking about

663
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 9: all the victims in the classroom. Nancy. University students, especially

664
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 9: women between the ages of eighteen and twenty two, are

665
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 9: notoriously targeted for rapes and crimes. We know this about

666
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 9: college campuses. So the fact that they did not even

667
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 9: use their own internal risk assessment procedure to protect these

668
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 9: victim is just shocking.

669
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,760
Speaker 8: The lawsuit aledges almost immediately upon arrival to Pullman, Moscow.

670
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 8: Coburger developed a reputation for harassing and stalking, instilling fear

671
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 8: among female students and fellow WSU employees. Record show at

672
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 8: least thirteen complaints were filed against Coburger by other students

673
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 8: in the criminology program.

674
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 13: Classmates and professors found Coberger sexist and creepy. Female students

675
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 13: avoided being left alone with him. In One faculty member

676
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 13: warned he had the potential to become a future rapist.

677
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 13: Of faculty member said Coberger's quote smart enough that in

678
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 13: four years we will have to give him a PhD.

679
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 13: But mark my word, I work with predators. If we

680
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 13: give him a PhD, that's the guy. In many years,

681
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 13: when he is a professor, we will hear he's harassing, stalking,

682
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 13: and sexually abusing his students at wherever University.

683
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 1: My stars and to Howard Blum, renowned author he wrote

684
00:41:55,880 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: When the Night Comes Falling Requiem for the Idaho Students Murder.

685
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: He has an article out this weekend in air mail

686
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 1: titled did BK have an accomplice? I make the case,

687
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: Howard Blum, It goes on and on. It was so

688
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: bad that there was a system set up for female

689
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: students to text or email when they needed an escort

690
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: to their car because they were afraid of coburger. I mean,

691
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: you have been on this case from the beginning. Why

692
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: didn't they act? I agree with the Consolvis family.

693
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 11: I agree with them too, and I think it's really

694
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 11: interesting that for once, all four families are uniting to

695
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 11: make a point. And I think their point is not

696
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 11: specifically against WSU Washington State University, but they want to

697
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 11: establish once and for all that students when they go,

698
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 11: when your parents send students off to a university or

699
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 11: a college, that they are protected. The university has a

700
00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 11: responsibility to make sure that the students are safe. And

701
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 11: Washington State University ignored this. And it can't be done

702
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,399
Speaker 11: at Washington State University, it can't be done at other

703
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 11: universities around the country. And that's the real purpose of

704
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 11: this lawsuit, and it's a good one.

705
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Eric Fattus joining me, high

706
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: profile lawyer founder of the law offices of Eric Fattus,

707
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: former fellowy prosecutor Eric. What can Washington State University say

708
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: in their defense because it's all documented this or not?

709
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 1: Just he said this and she said that they documented it,

710
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 1: and then a day late and a dollar short, they

711
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: decide to have an intervention, way way too late.

712
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 12: Yeah. I mean, it seems like there was some clearly

713
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 12: documented failures errors, I know, missions on behalf of Washington

714
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 12: State University. I think what they're going to argue, Nancy

715
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 12: is they're going to argue causation because the plaintiffs have

716
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 12: to essentially show that Washington States University's failures caused damages

717
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 12: and in some of the claims, caused or substantially contributed

718
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 12: to the deaths. I think Washington State's going to say, hey,

719
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 12: this was a mad man, this was a psychopathic killer.

720
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 12: We couldn't have done anything to stop this. He would

721
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 12: have done this anyway. And so I think that that

722
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 12: is the horse they're likely going to rune.

723
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 8: The suit alleges the college did not take action in

724
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 8: part because they feared firing Coburger might open WSU up

725
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 8: to a lawsuit. After the murders, Coberger's supervising instructor and

726
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 8: fellow graduate students immediately thought Coberger committed the murders, but

727
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,280
Speaker 8: did not contact law enforcement. The plaintiffs named in the suit,

728
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 8: Kayleigan Zava's dad, Matty Mogan's mom, Xana Kernodle's dad, and

729
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 8: Ethan Chapin's mom argue WSU was obligated to control Coberger

730
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 8: as a teaching assistant and employee and resident of campus housing.

731
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 1: They hired him. Doctor Benthony Marshall doesn't anybody check social

732
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,760
Speaker 1: media anymore. He talked about his heroin addiction. He talked

733
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 1: about the white noise he hears all the time, remember

734
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: that the right when you see snow on your TV.

735
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 1: Did they not see any of that?

736
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 9: And that he felt like a piece of meat. He

737
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 9: had no emotions when he hugged his family members. He

738
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 9: didn't feel anything. Nancy, this is actually a profound refusal

739
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 9: to put their thoughts together about what was happening at

740
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 9: their university. They did not They looked at all the evidence.

741
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:46,359
Speaker 9: They talked about it, they had meetings, Everything was documented,

742
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 9: but there was a profound lack of a willingness to think,

743
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:55,839
Speaker 9: to think about the students, to protect the students, their

744
00:45:55,960 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 9: fear of being sued was so so serving. I mean,

745
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 9: they prioritize that over women who are potentially raped. They're

746
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 9: worried about themselves, Like Melissa Coburger, She's worried about her family.

747
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 9: She's not talking about the victims' families. Like all these

748
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 9: photos that are being released online. These boulish people who

749
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 9: are going to exploit the photos are thinking about themselves.

750
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 9: They're not thinking about the family. There is a profound disconnect, Nancy.

751
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:36,760
Speaker 9: People are dissociating from the reality of what really happened

752
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 9: during that crime.

753
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 1: And I'm sure you heard earlier that immediately after the murders,

754
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: people at WSU, fellow grad students and a supervising instructor knew.

755
00:46:50,640 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 1: They immediately knew Coburger quote did it, and they did nothing.

756
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: She's not waking up.

757
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 9: Okay, one moment.

758
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 12: I'm going to help her.

759
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 8: It that way.

760
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 1: Circling back to Howard Bloom, author of the definitive book

761
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: regarding the Idaho murders. When the night comes falling, Howard,

762
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 1: what about that sister and her green wig? Not judging

763
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 1: She's claiming that she's gotten so famous to avoid being recognized,

764
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 1: she has to wear heavy makeup in a wig, a

765
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: green wig or pink wig wherever she goes. Okay, but

766
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 1: the point is whining to The New York Times about

767
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: her pain in her family's pain.

768
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 11: Well, I am sympathetic to the sister. I think she's

769
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 11: a victim, but I also thinks she's not being totally candid.

770
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 11: We just heard that at Washington State University everyone thought

771
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 11: he was a suspect, or so many people thought he

772
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,720
Speaker 11: was a suspect, and yet his family had no idea.

773
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,959
Speaker 11: I don't buy that. I don't buy that at all.

774
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 11: I don't believe that the father, while he was sitting

775
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 11: in a white Hondai Elantra while they were going across

776
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 11: the country that the police were looking, he knew we're

777
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 11: looking for a white Handai Elantra, didn't have any idea

778
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 11: that this was his son was involved in these murders.

779
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 11: I think they're trying to make the best case possible,

780
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 11: but I don't think they're being totally candid.

781
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,839
Speaker 1: Well, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig, isn't it,

782
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: Howard Bloom not being totally candid. Okay, when I saw

783
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: that article, nothing about the pain the victims are going through,

784
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 1: nothing at all, all about me. Me me, me, me, me, me, me,

785
00:48:54,280 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 1: me me. That's bizarre. I smell a book in the work.

786
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, somebody in the Coburger camp is going

787
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:07,240
Speaker 1: to write a book about all their pain. Susan Hendrick's

788
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: back to the lawsuit. The egos officers are not speaking

789
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 1: about it, Susan. Is it true that women had an

790
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 1: email or a text that they could use because they

791
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 1: were afraid of Coburger to even walk to their cars?

792
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,479
Speaker 10: Absolutely, and the email would say nine to one one.

793
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 10: I mean they had a plan. They were petrified of

794
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 10: this guy to even where they had to make a

795
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 10: code to say I'm in trouble here or leave the

796
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 10: door open.

797
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just.

798
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 10: The red flags are everywhere in this lawsuit, everywhere, and

799
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 10: they were all ignored.

800
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: Chris McDonough joining US Cold Case Foundation and star of

801
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 1: the Interview Room. Chris in so many cases that I

802
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: prosecuted by the time I got them. Of course, they

803
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: were felonies that started with pervy behavior like peeping Tom's, voyeurism,

804
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 1: upskirt photos and and suddenly somebody's raped and somebody somebody's dead. Okay,

805
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 1: are you surprised at all that it all started with

806
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: his trail of intimidating women at WSU who did nothing

807
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: about it.

808
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 7: No, not at all, Nancy, and you have been connecting

809
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 7: these thoughts from day one. And let's take it one

810
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 7: step further. After the murders. Right, we have all of

811
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 7: this free incident behavior that are just huge red flags.

812
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 7: But what about when the cops find the white Alantra

813
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 7: and they do what? Oh, they just said, Oh, we

814
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 7: made a mistake, a mistake. Are you kidding me? Do

815
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 7: you imagine all that evidence that was lost just within

816
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 7: a week after the hologice. This was in confidence at

817
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 7: its finest hour.

818
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: To Eric Fattus joining us high profile lawyer or founder

819
00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,839
Speaker 1: of law offices of Eric Fattus. Eric, I have some advice. Now,

820
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 1: not a civil lawyer like you have become, but if

821
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: I was counseling wsussay, don't say anything. Issue an apology,

822
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 1: a written apology, so nobody can throw questions at you

823
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 1: that you don't have the backbone or the wherewithal to answer.

824
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,760
Speaker 1: Don't say anything, You'll make it worse, and just settle,

825
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 1: settle with the families and go away. Lesson learned, do

826
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 1: not fight the families on this lawsuit. There is a

827
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:36,800
Speaker 1: trail a mile wide, just edged with red flags about

828
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: Brian Coberger and they did nothing.

829
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 12: And Nansie, I think that's sound advice, in part because

830
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 12: as the lawsuit proceeds, there's gonna be a discovery process

831
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:50,320
Speaker 12: whereby Washington State University officials are going to be deposed.

832
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 12: They're gonna be asked questions under oath peppard with inquiries

833
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:56,239
Speaker 12: from the plaintiff site. They're gonna have to answer questions

834
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 12: under oath and writing. They're gonna have to provide materials,

835
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 12: and we're gonna learn a lot more about these alleged

836
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 12: failures on behalf of the university.

837
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 4: And I think Steve.

838
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 12: Cansolvus earlier in the program said it best, you know,

839
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 12: he said, our leaders need to be better, and that

840
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 12: seems like the theme of this lawsuit.

841
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 1: Well, the thing is this, not only are they going

842
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 1: to have to answer questions, they're going to have to

843
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: depose the victims' families. You know what, you can ride

844
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: that deposition straight to hell, putting the families through that too.

845
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Gray signing off, goodbye friend,