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Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Damn

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Speaker 1: here with Chuck Carpenter. He is the National Wild Turkey

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Speaker 1: Federation District biologist for New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, and Idaho.

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Speaker 1: A funny story about Chuck before I let him talk

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Speaker 1: is our relationship started out with him harrassing me at

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Speaker 1: the Western Hunt Expo. I didn't know him at the time,

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Speaker 1: and I don't take any offense. I didn't remember you

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Speaker 1: harrassing me, but he would always swing by the booth

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Speaker 1: and ask us why we didn't bring any turkey calls?

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Speaker 1: And I back then and it was turkey season about

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Speaker 1: that time, right before, and so I took some lumps

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Speaker 1: from him. But now fast forward to eight years and

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Speaker 1: we're hunting here in the Pacific Northwest, and yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: been fun. Welcome to the show, Chuck.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Jason, And yeah, I was the guy that

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Speaker 2: harassed you. Did you bring any turkey calls? No? And

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Speaker 2: onto helping out ELK customers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, it's now we do bring turkey calls

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Speaker 1: to the Northwest Hunt Expo in case here or not,

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Speaker 1: the Northwest the Western Hunt Expo. But yeah, we're currently

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Speaker 1: here in the Pacific Northwest on a turkey hunt. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're kind of hunting the way that we like to

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Speaker 1: do it. You know, there's there's and there's no wrong

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Speaker 1: way to turkey hunt. You know. Some people prefer pattern birds,

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Speaker 1: they prefer ag land, they prefer pasture birds, they prefer

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Speaker 1: whatever it is. We're doing it in the mountains, getting

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Speaker 1: a little exercise in chasing, you know, sometimes a loon gobble.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean whatever floats your boat.

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Speaker 1: Ye.

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Speaker 2: Some guys are teach their own. They can hunt however

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Speaker 2: they want. I don't know if we're hunting how each

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Speaker 2: of us wants to hunt. But we are putting on

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Speaker 2: the miles and we're going after public land birds and

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Speaker 2: hard birds. We're not chasing the easy birds.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, even within our camp. Right, we got team well,

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Speaker 1: they dubbed themselves Team Maverick. I think really they they're

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Speaker 1: hunting a different way. They're having success as well, right,

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Speaker 1: And yeah, we've you know, the day not a spoiler,

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Speaker 1: the day you killed your bird? Wed what did sixteen miles? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: killed your bird. So, like you say, there's lots of

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Speaker 1: ways do it. I enjoy turkey hunting, you know, all

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Speaker 1: the different ways, but this is the way I prefer

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Speaker 1: to do it. It's like you're in the mountains, there's terrain,

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Speaker 1: there's you know, and and you're chasing public land birds

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Speaker 1: and it's it's it's a lot of fun. I do

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Speaker 1: if I could change one thing about turkeys as they

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Speaker 1: would rut during not the faulks, I'll getting away a

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Speaker 1: big game, but like not when the days are so

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Speaker 1: dang long. This camp, I think we've got very little

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Speaker 1: sleep and a lot of you know, ey eyes open time,

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Speaker 1: and it's starting to wear on me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we were talking this morning and one thing that

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Speaker 2: I appreciate about this camp is most camps, like we're

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Speaker 2: in day four and as you go along, it's like

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Speaker 2: every day people are a little slower to get out

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Speaker 2: of bed. You know, those alarms, the snoozes get hit.

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Speaker 2: And this camp, every day we've gotten up earlier and earlier.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think this that's us becoming better hunters because

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Speaker 1: we've screwed up the roost a couple of those days.

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Speaker 1: We're learning and we're like, if we're gonna go that

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Speaker 1: far or if we're driving that far, and we got

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Speaker 1: to be in this area. Yeah, so yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: by necessity if we wanted to try to kill some

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Speaker 1: more birds.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean, and there's some birds just hanging out.

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Speaker 2: You might hear them gobble here. They're hanging out in

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Speaker 2: a field right next to our little lodging that we're at,

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Speaker 2: and nobody's h even thought about going after them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they just And that's I mean, we've talked about

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Speaker 1: this a lot. I wish we could have recorded all

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Speaker 1: our conversations if we're walking around the woods, sitting there

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Speaker 1: or bs. And but like, is a guy that is

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Speaker 1: out there trying to kill a turkey, I'm also the

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Speaker 1: same guy that's rooting for the turkeys, right, And so

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Speaker 1: it's like, I kill not one in the field that's

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Speaker 1: been there every morning, every night we've been here. It's

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Speaker 1: just it's not not what we're after now. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: if somebody wanted to do it that way and they

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Speaker 1: had access to it, then by all means.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, and then we're all pretty experienced turkey hunters here.

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Speaker 2: You know, Like if there's somebody new, absolutely that it

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Speaker 2: would probably be in play. But I think everybody here

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Speaker 2: wants to have interactions with birds. I know, Uh, you've

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Speaker 2: been making them gobble like crazy. We've heard lots and

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Speaker 2: lots of gobbles, and those birds for us right now

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Speaker 2: just aren't gonna yep yep.

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Speaker 1: And uh yeah, we're we're recording midday. I think we've

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Speaker 1: we've put on five or six miles and came out

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Speaker 1: of a pretty deep canyon and uh we were on

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Speaker 1: we were on pace to really put on a big

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Speaker 1: loop today. But I pretend to hear gobble back up

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Speaker 1: the hills we had the reverse direction?

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Speaker 2: Is that happy?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, So no, anybody that's listened, you know,

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Speaker 1: to this podcast knows that I'm you know, I like

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Speaker 1: this technical tactical stuff like I if I feel that

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Speaker 1: like talking to a biologist, understanding why the birds do

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Speaker 1: what they do and the data that's behind that. You know, yourself, Chamberlain,

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Speaker 1: you know some of the people that are out there

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Speaker 1: doing the boots on the ground work so that we

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Speaker 1: understand these things better, we understand everything about them. I

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Speaker 1: like to try to bridge and then a lot of

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Speaker 1: guys are bridging it. But I like to talk about,

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Speaker 1: you know, almost a little bit selfishly, like, well, how

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Speaker 1: can I use some of the information you guys know

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Speaker 1: way better than I do. I'm just a hunter, But

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Speaker 1: how can I use that when I'm out there hunting

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Speaker 1: to maybe maybe you know, up my odds of success.

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Speaker 1: And so yeah, I'm ready to jump into it. One

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Speaker 1: thing we're gonna we're gonna walk through is we are

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Speaker 1: here in the Pacific Northwest. You know, me being from Washington,

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Speaker 1: I hunt Washington a lot. You know, Idaho, Oregon, kind

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Speaker 1: of those Pacific Northwest states. You know you're in Utah.

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Speaker 1: We may be at our high point right and I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I'm I'm not getting factual, but like we're

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Speaker 1: close to the high point.

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Speaker 2: We're on that trajectory. Yeah, for sure, we're.

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Speaker 1: We're there, lots of birds, healthy populations, but I think

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Speaker 1: we need to be careful. Once again, We've talked about

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Speaker 1: this throughout the week, like do I want to just

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Speaker 1: have an amazing experience or do I want to be

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Speaker 1: able to kill three for a couple of years? And

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Speaker 1: that experience starts like slowly dwindle.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's a lot to unpack there. We've seen

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Speaker 2: that everyone in the Turkey world kind of knows. Hopefully

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Speaker 2: you do. If not, we'll kind of give you some history.

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Speaker 2: But in back east we are seeing some Turkey declines,

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Speaker 2: kind of the southeast and they're slowly moving their way west.

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Speaker 2: And what's kind of been noted and documented is we've

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Speaker 2: seen the high point in Turkey numbers about thirty years

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Speaker 2: after reintroduction win some really heavy translocations were happening. If

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Speaker 2: you don't know, Turkey's at one point were around two

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Speaker 2: hundred thousand turkeys in North America and right now we're

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Speaker 2: sitting at six point five million. So even with declines,

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Speaker 2: this is one of the greatest success stories in hunting period.

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Speaker 2: Maybe whitetail deer is another good example of that. But

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Speaker 2: so these declines we're seeing, like thirty years after interduction

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Speaker 2: pole production, they're not having as many offspring and it's

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Speaker 2: concerning and we want to understand why this is happening,

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Speaker 2: and it's slowly moving less And so here we are

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Speaker 2: in the Pacific Northwest, and like Jason alluded to, it

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Speaker 2: really is kind of the good old days for us

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Speaker 2: right now. And so are we just going to take

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Speaker 2: advantage of that and just blindly be happy or should

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Speaker 2: we kind of start evaluating do we need to look

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Speaker 2: at this and start planning ahead for the future, Like

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Speaker 2: and that's a big thing right now, and this has

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Speaker 2: it's multifaceted. What's going on with that and how we

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Speaker 2: get to that? We don't know if if honestly some

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Speaker 2: of these populations that we're just hitting a carrying capacity.

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Speaker 1: Well, and that was a question I had for you

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Speaker 1: if you know or maybe you don't know this answer,

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Speaker 1: but like let's say Missouri for instance, like you know,

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Speaker 1: the huge upswing and then the big downturn is the

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Speaker 1: goal can't be to always grow, but the goal is

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Speaker 1: to get to that high point and then maintain or

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Speaker 1: or did they shoot past their carrying capacity because it

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Speaker 1: was that introduction and they you know, they need to

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Speaker 1: kind of like fall back into a plateau like that

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Speaker 1: would be the goal, right, is to just maintain that. Now,

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Speaker 1: maybe not always that it's all time high, but somewhere

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Speaker 1: close to that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, So when you have let's say, any animal,

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Speaker 2: when you look at the population when it's introduced into

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Speaker 2: a new area and it actually takes off, it's going

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Speaker 2: to have almost exponential growth until it hits the carrying

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Speaker 2: capacity and it's going to overshoot that carrying capacity and

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Speaker 2: then it's going to go down and it's going to

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Speaker 2: oscillate back and forth around that carrying capacity. But a

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Speaker 2: big thing that I think doesn't get thought about enough

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Speaker 2: and probably should be, especially in the Pacific Northwest and

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Speaker 2: me being over Idaho, Idaho, it really needs to be considered.

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Speaker 2: Is that carrying capacity. It's it's a moving metric. It's

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Speaker 2: not just stagnant. Idaho is the fastest growing state in

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Speaker 2: the nation. So that in and of itself you have

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Speaker 2: people moving in converting habitat to homes and now that

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Speaker 2: carrying capacity that is reduced, and so you're probably gonna

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Speaker 2: overshoot it, and it's gonna undershoot then afterwards and oscillate

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Speaker 2: around this and maybe some significant swings because there's other

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Speaker 2: metrics even beside the population dynamics and habitat.

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Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about a little bit. Well

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Speaker 1: we'll just jump in now that's a good segue. So

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Speaker 1: we're talking about carrying capacities. You mentioned habitat already. You know,

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Speaker 1: is it gives or take You know, where we're hunting

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Speaker 1: is industrial timberlands, right, for lack of a better word,

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Speaker 1: private ground that is open to the public. We've been

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Speaker 1: looking as we go like it almost in itself, just

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Speaker 1: the process of that, whether you're anti logging, prologging whatever,

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Speaker 1: it creates great fringe habitat, it creates great nesting habitat,

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Speaker 1: it creates great food source, creates great nest you know,

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Speaker 1: a roosting. So you got that habitat. So are you

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Speaker 1: thinking or saying within like just developed areas, like just

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Speaker 1: putting a house out in the country, does that ultimately

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Speaker 1: affect it? Like because me as the hunter, I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: when I go find a house and if they got

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Speaker 1: some livestock or they got some chickens, like that place

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Speaker 1: is loaded with turkeys, you know, So it's like, in

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Speaker 1: my mind, well, that created but in reality it probably

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Speaker 1: did take some habitat away.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it definitely takes some away. And honestly, your rural

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Speaker 2: house is probably creating more than it is taking away.

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Speaker 2: But really what it boils down to is public opinion

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Speaker 2: and and nuisance birds are sometimes the limiting factor, especially

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Speaker 2: with agencies they don't they don't like to get calls

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Speaker 2: on nuisance birds. And that social acceptance factor might be

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Speaker 2: more of a carrying capacity cap than habitat in some

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Speaker 2: of those areas.

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Speaker 1: So in that thirty years where you got introduction to

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Speaker 1: somewhere around the peak, we'll talk about this a little

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Speaker 1: bit you think Idaho, Washington organ are probably gonna take

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Speaker 1: a little bit longer than thirty just because of some reasons.

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Speaker 1: But in that thirty years, is that do we feel

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Speaker 1: like predators are becoming better at catching? Like is there

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Speaker 1: is there some thought there or is it like is

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Speaker 1: it truly just maximizing capacity and then is there you know,

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Speaker 1: some of that predator issues or is that always happening

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Speaker 1: from the day of introduction until.

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Speaker 2: That's gonna happen from day introduction? Like it's the classic

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Speaker 2: case is the hair and the links. I think the

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Speaker 2: hair and the links and how they how those populations

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Speaker 2: feed off of each other. You know, if if you

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Speaker 2: really do have some popular some predators that are fundamentally

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Speaker 2: just eating turkeys, they're going to raise in population in

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Speaker 2: direct relationship with turkeys increasing.

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Speaker 1: So I know, we've talked about some colored animals that

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Speaker 1: were like specific turkey killers, like cougars, bobcats that were like,

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Speaker 1: you know, skilled and specifically feasting on turkeys versus you know,

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Speaker 1: other ones that eat deer and elk, and but yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's probably the anomaly. They're not not every cougar

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Speaker 1: out there's chasing turkeys around.

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Speaker 2: They got no, No, it is the anomaly. But there are

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Speaker 2: there's been cougar through history that specialized in bighorn sheep

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Speaker 2: and other big game animals, and sometimes in wintering flocks.

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Speaker 2: There are cougars that specialize in turkeys and they decimate them.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying that cougars anyway, shape or form number

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Speaker 2: one PREDATORI of turkeys, but it's just an individual instances. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they can, they can be a factor.

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Speaker 1: Okay, nobody. The one nobody wants to talk about as

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Speaker 1: much that's affecting this this number or this population is

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Speaker 1: youth seasons. Right. Nobody wants to tell you know, young

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Speaker 1: Johnny who's twelve years old, like your your youth seasons

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Speaker 1: may be going away. But you know, Chamberlain's got some research.

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Speaker 1: We talk about it like the process of quote unquote

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Speaker 1: turkey breeding is too long, where it should be done

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Speaker 1: in what you sixty days is now one hundred and

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Speaker 1: twenty day because we you know, we start hunting them

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Speaker 1: early in April, sometimes even in March, you know, in

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Speaker 1: the march on these youth seasons. In your opinion or

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Speaker 1: not in your opinion, that's that don't ever tell a

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Speaker 1: biologists in your opinion that does the data support that

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Speaker 1: youth seasons are having detrimental effects on some of these populations.

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Speaker 2: So this is a tricky one because yeah, no, no

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Speaker 2: one like, yeah, we're all for youth hunting, and it's

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Speaker 2: not about youth seasons, And honestly, I'm not gonna say

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Speaker 2: I haven't seen Mike's data, but it's more about when

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Speaker 2: those youth seasons are, so you could switch those youth

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Speaker 2: hunters out with any other hunter. But it's the fact

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Speaker 2: that generally youth seasons are one of the earlier seasons,

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Speaker 2: so that means they're hunting these birds pre hens incubation

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Speaker 2: and so, and we definitely see when hunting occurs before

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Speaker 2: incubation there is an effect on breeding, and definitely breeding

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Speaker 2: timeline gotcha.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so so youth season, youth get the bad rap,

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Speaker 1: but it's really just that season's too early. So if

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Speaker 1: we gave them the first week of our general season

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Speaker 1: April fifteenth to the twenty second, then that would be

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Speaker 1: in a lot better place. They would still have a

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Speaker 1: head start and maybe, as much as I don't want to,

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Speaker 1: you know, you'd maybe give up if we want the

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Speaker 1: youth to have the opportunity another really controversial thing. I

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Speaker 1: don't know we should bring up, but it's just a conversation, right,

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Speaker 1: We've talked about like youth season for a lot of

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Speaker 1: people is turning into you know, a guy getting to

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Speaker 1: spend time out on the field, Like you know, is

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Speaker 1: the kids still get to but the kids still a hunter,

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Speaker 1: Like should they just go out and join us on

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Speaker 1: the on the opener and and get a shot before

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Speaker 1: their dad? You know?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's that's probably something above my pay grade

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Speaker 2: that I'm not going to dive into. Yeah, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: and definitely in Turkey, youth season I think is let's

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Speaker 2: say it's it's heavily used because the adults get to

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Speaker 2: take the kids out and they get a scout for themselves.

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Speaker 2: You know, there are some states that now allow the

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Speaker 2: person that's hunting with the used to hunt as well,

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Speaker 2: which is that's not for me to decide. Somebody else

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Speaker 2: can debate that, but yeah, like a lot of guys

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Speaker 2: do use you season as scouting for their own hunt,

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Speaker 2: you know, which is deah fair enough.

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Speaker 1: And it is, but you know, like I say, you're

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Speaker 1: rooting for the Turkey a little bit, Like it's great

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Speaker 1: to get youth out there. I'm not saying they shouldn't,

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Speaker 1: but I think there's a lot more youth hitting the

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Speaker 1: field to check a box for the adult that's with

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Speaker 1: them than it is maybe for the youth like being

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Speaker 1: stoked to go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that might be more we're looking at maybe

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Speaker 2: what what intent was, you know, like any state would

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Speaker 2: have to evaluate that on their own, like if the

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Speaker 2: intent is actually being performed yep.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so we're talking a little bit about population management,

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Speaker 1: you know, carrying capacities. It seems like it would be

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Speaker 1: a more difficult task for turkeys than maybe dear elk,

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Speaker 1: maybe because they're such a fickle lifespan, right, it's a

305
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Speaker 1: four year lifespan. You can't necessarily control you're to your

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Speaker 1: hatches based on weather, predation, all of that. So like

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Speaker 1: what are how what's the approach the managing turkeys? Like

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Speaker 1: you can't control the weather, you can't control these things,

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Speaker 1: but like how are you how do you manage such

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Speaker 1: a fickle timeline? That's it's real tricky.

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Speaker 2: So really with managing turkeys because like you said, they're

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Speaker 2: not a short lived species. They're not a long lived

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Speaker 2: species by some of our metrics, like with big game,

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Speaker 2: and they have. Their reproductive potential is way higher than

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Speaker 2: big game, right, so they can swing. You know, they're

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Speaker 2: having decent clutches when nesting is great and brood bearing

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Speaker 2: habit has great. You know, we see big fluctuations in

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Speaker 2: the population, but then they can also crash as well,

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Speaker 2: but they can come back a little bit faster. So

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Speaker 2: really it's about looking at trends, Like you can't just

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Speaker 2: look at like one years worth of data. You need

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Speaker 2: to look at three to five to see what's going on.

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Speaker 2: And a lot of it with turkey success in breeding

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Speaker 2: is due to precipitation. Those polts need a lot of bugs.

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Speaker 2: The first couple of weeks, that's the that's like the

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Speaker 2: scariest time to be a pole is the first twelve

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Speaker 2: to fourteen days when they're on the ground and not

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Speaker 2: roosting in a tree. They need to get as much

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Speaker 2: protein as they can so they can fly up and

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Speaker 2: roost in a tree, and then we see their survival

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Speaker 2: rate go way up. So really, I know, a professor

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Speaker 2: of mine used to say, kind of the old adage

333
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Speaker 2: of April showers bring mayflowers, and mayflowers make june bugs,

334
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Speaker 2: and june bugs make birds. Yeah, and that's really how

335
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Speaker 2: it is. Maybe a little bit a little bit quicker

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Speaker 2: on the Turkey end, but yeah, I think that's really

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Speaker 2: what we got to look at, and we're going to

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Speaker 2: see probably this year some decreases in production and some

339
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Speaker 2: the lower states in Arizona and New Mexico because of

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Speaker 2: the drought going on.

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Speaker 1: Gotcha, So you've you've got this, Let's say you're you're

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00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:14,040
Speaker 1: managing it perfectly to maintain that. How are the fish

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Speaker 1: and wildlife agencies maintaining that balance? You know, how many

344
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Speaker 1: toms can be killed in order to like maintain that

345
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Speaker 1: that population to where you need.

346
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Speaker 2: So the kind of number that everyone uses is you

347
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,480
Speaker 2: don't really want to see harvest rates of over thirty

348
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Speaker 2: percent of toms of breeding birds. A lot of people

349
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Speaker 2: think that jakes do breeding. They really don't. Maybe towards

350
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Speaker 2: the very end there's a couple, but jakes really don't

351
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,320
Speaker 2: do anything as far as breeding goes. So thirty percent,

352
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Speaker 2: if you're shooting over thirty percent, generally you're having some

353
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Speaker 2: kind of negative population effects due to hunting pressure and

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Speaker 2: really with management in the West, because we don't have

355
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Speaker 2: a great way of counting birds because we have topography

356
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,320
Speaker 2: back East, they do a lot of male carrier surveys,

357
00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 2: so like postman, they drive routes and then they'll mark

358
00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:13,880
Speaker 2: down when they see broods and hens. But out west

359
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,440
Speaker 2: we just don't have that, and so really they go

360
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,720
Speaker 2: off of management is really based off of like hunters success.

361
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Speaker 2: So like they're looking at those numbers and that they

362
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Speaker 2: see it's some kind of dramatic decline, they're probably going

363
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Speaker 2: to it's going to trigger some kind of management activity

364
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Speaker 2: to happen.

365
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Speaker 1: Gotcha, And so let me ask you a dumb question,

366
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Speaker 1: not a biologist. So the toms alone will dictate the

367
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Speaker 1: population based on breeding? Or how do the hens play

368
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Speaker 1: into the like could those can all the hens be

369
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,200
Speaker 1: bred by less toms and your population or is it?

370
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Speaker 1: Is it? Am I not thinking about that correctly? That

371
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Speaker 1: made any sense? It did?

372
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Speaker 2: So the thirty percent really is what you're saying is

373
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Speaker 2: if you are left with seventy percent of the toms,

374
00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,919
Speaker 2: those seventy percent can still will breathe the hens that

375
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:05,520
Speaker 2: want to be bred so they can service the entire population.

376
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Speaker 1: But if you drop below thirty, then you might start

377
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Speaker 1: having some hens that don't have aren't being bred.

378
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,080
Speaker 2: No, if you increase harvest above thirty, then you're probably

379
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,560
Speaker 2: going to be left over with some hens that weren't bred.

380
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:15,919
Speaker 1: Yep ye.

381
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Speaker 2: But even when you hit that thirty percent, really what

382
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:23,359
Speaker 2: you're you're also talking about is you are harvesting so

383
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,920
Speaker 2: many toms that maybe you are harvesting the fittest individuals

384
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,600
Speaker 2: and the ones that are getting bred maybe weren't the

385
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Speaker 2: best ones. They weren't the ones that you wanted to breathe.

386
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So I look at turkey as a spring hunt.

387
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,439
Speaker 1: We've been talking a little bit about fall and the

388
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,720
Speaker 1: take there is that thirty percent of the toms on

389
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,720
Speaker 1: all hunts starting you know, like on a calendar year.

390
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,280
Speaker 1: And then how does the fall seasons the ability to

391
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,959
Speaker 1: start to take hens effect. And you've talked about it

392
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,679
Speaker 1: like the nuisance really kind of controls what has to

393
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,239
Speaker 1: be managed. How does the fall season affect like the

394
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,280
Speaker 1: overall take of turkeys and that overall popular.

395
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that thirty percent number is kind of just the

396
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 2: spring is what's what's out there to service hens in

397
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 2: the spring to make sure everybody was bred and fall seasons.

398
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 2: So fall seasons are definitely contentious. It like it or not.

399
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,439
Speaker 2: It was a traditional way to turkey hunt. There's a

400
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 2: lot of old timers you'll read old literature, and those

401
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,119
Speaker 2: guys didn't like spring hunting. You know. It kind of

402
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,880
Speaker 2: goes back and forth, we all have. But fall hunting

403
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 2: out here really is used as a tool for fishing

404
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:37,159
Speaker 2: game agencies to reduce populations that our nuisance birds are

405
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 2: getting complaints, so it just allows them instead of trapping

406
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,640
Speaker 2: and translocating them. And a lot of times though, you know,

407
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,119
Speaker 2: like there's risk involved in that, and there's time and money,

408
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,360
Speaker 2: it's just easier to allow hunting to occur. Then you're

409
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 2: also harassing the remainder of the birds and hopefully they'll

410
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,400
Speaker 2: leave the premises and you've solved the problem easily and

411
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 2: you allowed some opportunity at the same time.

412
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,200
Speaker 1: Yep, yep. And we had a conversation about like how

413
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,159
Speaker 1: to manage that. Should they you know, should somebody go

414
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 1: out and kill three toms with their fall tags or

415
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,119
Speaker 1: should it be like two hens and then you know

416
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 1: one any you know, either sex, because the toms are

417
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 1: getting hammered in the spring. Then if you're just truly

418
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,199
Speaker 1: trying to accomplish population control, like do you really need

419
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 1: to go take the three fifty bowls out of the herd,

420
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 1: you know, like that is that really helping the population

421
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 1: or would you be doing better to take hens? And

422
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 1: how do how are the the game departments kind of

423
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,239
Speaker 1: adjusting to that? Are they? Are they making changes to

424
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: what you can shoot in the fall versus? You know? Three?

425
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 1: Any any sex tags? Yeah?

426
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 2: Some of them are. They They've kind of very by state.

427
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,679
Speaker 2: Some are either sex, some of them are a couple

428
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 2: or beardless only, and like one tag could be bearded,

429
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 2: others are Every tag is either sex. But you're right,

430
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 2: it is a contentious thing of like what's nuisance versus

431
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 2: or did you harvest this because of a nuisance issue

432
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 2: or did you harvest it because of the trophy potential?

433
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 2: Like you said, sometimes it is would you allow who

434
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,920
Speaker 2: knows farmer Joe to shoot every giant bull that comes

435
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 2: down on this property and claim that they were the

436
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:11,880
Speaker 2: ones eating the hayst down?

437
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,439
Speaker 1: I'm almost confident if it did happen that way, there

438
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 1: would be everybody be up in arms and pictures. Yeah,

439
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: there'd be somebody be throwing a fit, and legislators and

440
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: politicians would be contacted. It wouldn't be good. I know

441
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,640
Speaker 1: you had mentioned thirty percent. But I thought you had

442
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 1: some data that you were a little I don't know

443
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: if you're nervous about, but you're like, oh, Idaho, weren't

444
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 1: they at forty by the data showed that like forty

445
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 1: five percent of the toms were killed last year.

446
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, so in Idaho specifically, And I actually have to

447
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 2: give them a hand because they are trying to to

448
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,160
Speaker 2: the they're doing some research to try to understand the

449
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 2: all the nesting and the actual production sidees not just

450
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:07,479
Speaker 2: the harvest side, but look at an actual production data

451
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 2: instead of just harvest, and they did. We put a

452
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 2: bunch of units GPS transmitters on some birds. We put

453
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 2: a bunch on hens. We put thirty transmitters on hens,

454
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 2: and they did great on their nesting attempts, like well

455
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 2: above average Idaho, like and that's the things like Idaho, Washington, Oregon.

456
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 2: Really their poltz per hen is kind of through the roof.

457
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,479
Speaker 2: It's it's incredible the production that's happening right now in

458
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 2: this area. But we also put a bunch of units

459
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 2: on on male birds. We put out let me see,

460
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 2: I'm actually looking at the data right now, so I

461
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 2: get it right. We got sixty seven males that were

462
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 2: banded and had units. Oh no, actually these males just

463
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 2: were banded. We put bands on thirty one toms and

464
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 2: thirty six jakes, and last year, forty five percent of

465
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 2: those toms and six percent of the jakes got harvested.

466
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 2: So that I mean that it's definitely concerning, and it's

467
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 2: great to like finally have this data and it's like

468
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 2: the first year of it, and we're gonna put out

469
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 2: more this year to try to get, like I said,

470
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 2: to get that trend to see what's going on because

471
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 2: forty five percent of jake's or forty five percent of

472
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 2: toms is high.

473
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. And me always being a skeptic, I'm like, but

474
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: were those let down like ad country like easy to

475
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 1: get to? Are those the ones that like climb to

476
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 1: the tip top of a mountain and like escape everybody,

477
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: even us?

478
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they were definitely easier to get to.

479
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, So maybe it's a little bit of it's still data.

480
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 1: It's it's good, it's a good data point, but you

481
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: always wonder, like, are those birds climb to the tip

482
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 1: tops these mountains that we're chasing around, are they maybe

483
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: you know easy more? You know more heavily pressured, more

484
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: heavily hunted. You just wonder, like I say.

485
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it also shows you some preference in harvest

486
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 2: for those toms versus a jake.

487
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: Yep.

488
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 2: It wasn't just about a nuisance bird or opportunity. It

489
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 2: really was at that point a little bit about the

490
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,679
Speaker 2: trophy potential. And I mean, I can't blame the folks

491
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 2: like big Tom versus a little sitting there.

492
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: We've had the spoder out multiple times looking at spurs. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

493
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: is that a good bird? Or you know, we we're

494
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 1: pretty excited about a couple of birds we've we've been

495
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: chasing around this week that you know, just a little

496
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: bit better than your We're assuming it's a little bit

497
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: better than our typical two year olds. But uh yeah,

498
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: just just those birds that you pick a fight with

499
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: or they win a couple of times and you want

500
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: to try to even the score with them. But uh yeah,

501
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: it's funny. You know, people talk about trophy turkey and

502
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 1: it's just like finding the one that that gets you

503
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: going and you know, gets you out under the tree

504
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: at four o'clock in the morning.

505
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's generally, I think for most of us

506
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 2: here it's the ones that, uh, the kind of juke

507
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 2: you and and make you come back for more. It's

508
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 2: not the easy birds.

509
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,919
Speaker 1: For yep, yep. And you gave kudos to Idaho already.

510
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,479
Speaker 1: They started doing a brood survey last year, right, they

511
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 1: got their first dat and they're they're finishing up their data.

512
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: For July of this year, they'll have the second round

513
00:26:58,200 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 1: or the second year of data.

514
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. So so Idaho specifically is asking people that it's

515
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 2: citizen science, so they want people to go out. You

516
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 2: just have to look on Idaho's website. It's just the

517
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 2: brood Survey and it's a survey one two three app.

518
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 2: You get on there, you say, there's a button that

519
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 2: says like you not a member, you don't have to

520
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 2: have an account to do it, and then you just

521
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 2: report how many hens you saw, how many poults you saw,

522
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 2: And really they're looking for that data in July and August,

523
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 2: and that kind of coincides with a lot of the

524
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 2: other brood data with other states. And honestly, it's it's

525
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 2: kind of set in July and August as well, because

526
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 2: in June a lot of times this polts are tiny

527
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 2: and people aren't going to see him. So but yeah,

528
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 2: we had great success. I think we had over fourteen

529
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 2: hundred observations on the first year. That was huge. And honestly,

530
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,199
Speaker 2: there's a piece of that that like when people go

531
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 2: out and they look and they're looking for these broods,

532
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 2: they kind of they have some ownership over them, and

533
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 2: then they they like, Turkey's more because it's then they're

534
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 2: there turkeys.

535
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: Yep, yep. And and you had mentioned the four point

536
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: nine was highest in the nation.

537
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 2: Is that correct or I'm not sure if the high,

538
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,479
Speaker 2: but that is getting up there. So if you're looking

539
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 2: for like the metric of production in a turkey population,

540
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 2: it really is. We kind of look at the polts

541
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 2: per hen how many polts we see per each each

542
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 2: hen and right now kind of the the number that's

543
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 2: out there as a population that's not growing or decreasing

544
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 2: is two polts per hen. It's probably a little lower

545
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 2: one point eight, but that's what's what's considered like a

546
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 2: stable population. And so for Idaho to be four point nine,

547
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 2: like there's other states that, I mean, everybody there, all

548
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 2: the fishing game agencies, i mean, jaws hit the floor

549
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 2: like it's pretty incredible.

550
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, And once again knowing that there's diverse. Yeah, turkeys

551
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: can live in a bunch of diverse terrain and habitat

552
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: are people? Can you guys tell like geographically, like where

553
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: the data was taken, like is it up in the

554
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: mountains or is it down in the in the passion

555
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: like is it a good sample set or is it

556
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: mainly confined to where people are most of the time?

557
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 2: So that one I can get on the app, but

558
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,959
Speaker 2: that one will just ask for counting, gotcha? Okay, So

559
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 2: we definitely see and I'm sure all the listeners as

560
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: well as myself knows, like it is weird sometimes when

561
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 2: people ask you for like a GPS location data because

562
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 2: nobody likes to give up their spots, so it's easy

563
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 2: if it's a county wide kind of location.

564
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: Okay, now the and uh, like I say this, I'm

565
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: gonna ask for your opinion if you want to. If

566
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: you don't want to, you don't have to. So sitting

567
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: here in Washington wanting to make sure that the Turkeyhunton

568
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: is always as good as it or we're sitting in Idahoe,

569
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: but being a Washington resident, like seeing how good the

570
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: Turkey Canton in my opinion is right now, how do

571
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: we prevent the downturn that these others Like we've talked

572
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: about all of this stuff, but in your opinion, like,

573
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: do we need to just monitor and as long as

574
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: the population doesn't turn down, we're okay with how many tags,

575
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: We're okay with the seasons where they're at, or like,

576
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: how do we just make sure we're head of this

577
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: because I'm sure all these other agencies thought that they

578
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 1: could sustain two three tags, you know, one tricky a week,

579
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: whatever it was, for as long as they needed to,

580
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,479
Speaker 1: and then they kind of got whipped by some issues

581
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: that were out of their control or whatever it was,

582
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: the carrying capacity, and now they're in these positions where

583
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: they're like, man, you should have seen how good this

584
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: was twenty years You know, everybody knows. We go back

585
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: to Kansas on our good buddy Randy's place, and it's

586
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: really good when we're there. But he's like, man, you

587
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: should have seen it twenty years ago. And that's all

588
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: you ever hear in your opinion out here in the

589
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest. Why we're kind of riding this high, Like

590
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: how do you maintain it?

591
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that you should have been here yesterday thing.

592
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 2: I mean, we all hear it, We've all heard the stories.

593
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 2: That's a super tough question. I think the biggest thing

594
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 2: is is a lot of these state ergencies are finally

595
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 2: kind of looking at it, because you do have to

596
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 2: look at turkeys a little bit. Let's just say in

597
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 2: these three states and in Idaho, Washington, and Oregon, they're

598
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,719
Speaker 2: non native, so they're brought here as an opportunity. So

599
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 2: it's really about maximizing. Uh well, it's a balance of

600
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 2: opportunity and stainability, sustainability. So how do we sustain what

601
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 2: we are right now? I don't know if we can

602
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 2: because I don't know if the production will sustain, and

603
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 2: it will it will be Really the biggest thing I

604
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 2: think with the to prevent a fall off is making

605
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 2: sure that we respond to a fall off quickly and

606
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 2: the best way for that because we all know in

607
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 2: the West, I'm a Western guy. You know, Antler's and

608
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,479
Speaker 2: Horn's rule, and they rule the money and they kind

609
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 2: of rule the agencies and a little bit if people

610
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 2: are concerned about it as you are, Jason, it's kind

611
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 2: of like the squeaky wheel gets the grease, Like engage

612
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 2: with your commissions with your state agency and tell them

613
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 2: like you have concerns and be an active participant in

614
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 2: game management.

615
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's tough because you know, our good buddy

616
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: Eric Broughton's at camp this week, you know, he he,

617
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: you know John is here at camp this week. Those

618
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: guys live for turkey hunting, and you know, they buy

619
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: their three tags and they go out and do their thing.

620
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: And so it's like I always have to kind of

621
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: put myself in check and be like, man, these guys

622
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: love this and like nobody wants to raise their hand

623
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: and be like, you know what, I would take one

624
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: less tag or I would take two less tags. And

625
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: so it's it's a tough deal because you're I'm always

626
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: really careful. You don't want to create division with it,

627
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: and there's so much infighting and you know, it's like

628
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: all we need to do is argue over how many

629
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: turkey tags. But like you said, as long as they

630
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: react more quickly, more nimble, you know, and they can

631
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: they can make adjustments. I would just hate to be

632
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: like they depend on that revenue to a point where

633
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: they're like we're just gonna keep three tags and let

634
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: it ride, you know, because it is a quick, you know, like, oh,

635
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: we'll bounce back, these things grow back quick, you know,

636
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: and and it just doesn't.

637
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and some of that, like I said, might be

638
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 2: like environmental factors too, like oh if we don't you know,

639
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 2: if we have a drought, like we need to look

640
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 2: at this and and kind of hold back. No, and

641
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 2: it is hard. How do you balance the opportunity with sustainability,

642
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 2: because yeah, I want to hunt turkeys just as much

643
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: as everybody else. Like we're we're having a great time.

644
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 2: And honestly, like when you do have a state with

645
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 2: multiple multiple tags, though a lot of those guys they're

646
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 2: not filling that third tag. So a lot of times

647
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 2: like that third tag doesn't matter that much, and I

648
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 2: think people forget about that.

649
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: Yep, yep. No, that's like I say, I just trying to,

650
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: you know, look out for the birds, like you say,

651
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: you want them to win as well. You want to

652
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: have absolutely because without them there is no opportunity or

653
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: or the opportunities not as good as is now. You

654
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: wouldn't have near as much fun. You know, we're hunting

655
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: areas with fairly low densies now, and you're like, man,

656
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: I wish this canyon had ten birds in it instead

657
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: of two. You know, it's just the more birds, the

658
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: better the hunt, the better experience. And when you look

659
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: back to like those epic turkey days, they don't line

660
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: up to off them, but it's like, man, we got

661
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: into them. You know, twenty five birds roosted around us,

662
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: and you know it was just those days where it's like,

663
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: guess what, you need lots of birds to be able

664
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,879
Speaker 1: to do that or an awesome piece of price, which

665
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: is the other downside. But it's like, if you're doing

666
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,399
Speaker 1: it up on this public ground where we're at, we're

667
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: hunting one or two birds per I don't know, I'm

668
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 1: throwing dad out there, which a biologist probably hates, but

669
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,399
Speaker 1: it's like maybe one or two gobblers perb square mile.

670
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just saying basically on where we're driving

671
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: in roosting kind of what we're hearing.

672
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, well and right now too. You got to know

673
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 2: that the hunt's been going on for a few weeks

674
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 2: and a lot of these birds are kind of changing

675
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 2: up their strategy. A lot of them are not gobbling

676
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 2: as much. Like there's some hidden ones and Jason has

677
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 2: definitely found a bunch hidden in deep dark corners with

678
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 2: with woodpecker and owl screeches, Like we've definitely like, oh

679
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 2: that one we didn't know was there and now we

680
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 2: know there's one there, but can we get them to

681
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 2: do anything? So yeah, So it's hard because honestly, like

682
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 2: I think what we're doing the grind this week has

683
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,280
Speaker 2: been pretty epic and that's something in and of itself.

684
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, And we're going to get into the hunting

685
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: side here in a little bit. Like we've tried, Like

686
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 1: we looked at each other, so we just shock an awe,

687
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 1: Like they'll answer a shock call, but they won't answer

688
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: a tricky call, So like we're just gonna get them

689
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: to sound off and go go on them. But it's

690
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: like we've talked about it multiple times, and this may

691
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: be a good segue into the hunting side. There's lots

692
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: of different ways to do it. There may be way

693
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,439
Speaker 1: better ways to actually kill birds than the way we're

694
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,959
Speaker 1: doing it. Right, Yeah, we've talked about like as much

695
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say this and I found it and run

696
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: a call company, Like we've talked about it, and I

697
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: recognize it. Like we may have killed more birds if

698
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: we never touched a call and You're like, why would

699
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: I say that, I'm like, because it puts them on alert.

700
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: They've been called to these Republic birds. Potentially we've tried

701
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: to hike far enough to get away, but I'm sure

702
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 1: they've heard call. And we're out there once again for

703
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 1: a specific we want a run and gun, we want

704
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 1: to set up on a gobbling bird. We want to

705
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: call them back to us. Well, the reality is it's

706
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: not working very well this week. It's but if we

707
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: were just we as we walked down the road, you know,

708
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 1: the biologist and Chuck, he's looking for tracks, looking for

709
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: this just you know, like all good hunters do. We're

710
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: looking at what's on the ground. If we would just

711
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: set up in some of these heavily trafficked areas and

712
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 1: just sat instead of wanting to get up every forty

713
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: five minutes after we don't hear a gobble, we would

714
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 1: kill a lot more birds.

715
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've definitely been on the aggressive side, and that's

716
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 2: because we're kind of looking for the last of the

717
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 2: aggressive birds out there. And to be frank, we're also

718
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 2: looking for an older class bird. We're going after like

719
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 2: the bigger gobbles, or at least you know, sometimes they

720
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 2: feel you. But we're going after what we think is

721
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 2: the big birds and a lot of times those are

722
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 2: the smart ones that aren't aggressive. They're going to come

723
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 2: in quiet, and so we might be I might be

724
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 2: kicking the can a little bit on that way. But

725
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 2: what we're just doing, we're kind of sticking to her

726
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 2: gun and just doing what it is. And I can't

727
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 2: sell like I mean, we've heard a lot of gobbles

728
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 2: and we've got a lot of action and interaction with birds,

729
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 2: and that's I think really what it's about is that interaction.

730
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're always we're learning from every every situation.

731
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: And then sometimes it would be we talked about this,

732
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: it would be no fun if every morning you went

733
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: and set up by the roofs tree and you made

734
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: a couple of soft tree helps. He pitched out and

735
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: landing your decoys. Now every once in a while, that's nice.

736
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: But it's nice to be humbled and and like you

737
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: know what they want to get, like all right, we

738
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: you know, you take your lists, but then it makes

739
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 1: it so much nicer when you do run your system.

740
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: You running gun and sit down and it works for

741
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: for that all all you know happen there.

742
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and at the end of the day, I'm rooting

743
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 2: for the birds more than myself because, yeah, because I

744
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 2: want it to be difficult, because it wouldn't be cool

745
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 2: if it wasn't.

746
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, you alluded to something there, and I'm gonna

747
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: I'm actually gonna change back. You talked about us chasing

748
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: the bigger, smarter birds. We had a little conversation. I

749
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: think it was today. Heck, they've all ran together. But

750
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: is there any data or science and you may not

751
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: have it of like us shooting the more callable more

752
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: you know, like, is there a genetic thing where like

753
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: hunters are killing all the birds that will gobble will

754
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: come to a call more so than like, No, I'm

755
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 1: gonna be the stubborn old bird that just gobbles and

756
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: then doesn't show up to me. The hell with you,

757
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: I'm not coming to you ever.

758
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a there's a lot of research on that.

759
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 2: Mike's done a lot of research on that. And honestly,

760
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 2: if you guys, Mike Chamberlain phenomenal researcher. He works with

761
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 2: us at n WTF. He's an endowed professor with us,

762
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 2: definitely one of the leaders. There's there's a few guys

763
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 2: out there, But you mentioned Mike, and Mike has a

764
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 2: website called let me Think It's Wild Turkey lab dot com,

765
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 2: and you guys can look at a lot of this

766
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 2: research and he does a great job like synthesizing like

767
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 2: what the actual paper was, because I'm not gonna lie

768
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 2: Eisen academia. It is not fun to read an academic article. Yeah,

769
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,720
Speaker 2: like you know, and it's nice when you have somebody

770
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 2: like Mike that is really kind of like tearing it

771
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 2: apart and kind of giving you what. But yeah, like

772
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 2: if you go in I mean most birds, like there's

773
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 2: a lot of studies like seventy five percent of your

774
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 2: harvest is the first two weeks of any season with turkeys,

775
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 2: and really like you are shooting those birds that do

776
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 2: respond well to calls that are a little bit more aggressive,

777
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 2: and a lot of times you are shooting those two

778
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 2: year old birds and some of those older ones. There's

779
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: not as many online skip you're shooting more two year

780
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 2: olds because they're more two year olds. Yeah, but a

781
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 2: lot of those birds that they do different, they have

782
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 2: different strategies. As soon as at hunting pressures on and

783
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:48,240
Speaker 2: we all know that like as soon as the hunting

784
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 2: season starts, like gobbling activity goes down. Hunting pressure is

785
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 2: one of the biggest factors in decrease and gobbling activity.

786
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,839
Speaker 2: Like we've seen it over and over and over, and

787
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 2: it's hard because as hunters, the biggest tie with satisfaction

788
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 2: is hearing godless. So so that's a catch twenty two.

789
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, like and a lot of turkeys that there

790
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 2: been units on different toms, and some of them wants

791
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 2: hunting pressure gets in an area, they go to a

792
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 2: deep dark corner and hide. A lot of them actually

793
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 2: reduce their range, and some of them increase and just

794
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 2: get out of town.

795
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah, And Mike Chamberlain has some data. I don't

796
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: we I was looking for it, but he had like

797
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 1: four charts on like gobbling activity in a unit. It

798
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 1: doesn't ever get hunted gobbling activity in the unit after

799
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: the hunters get there. And it was basically like on

800
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: a on a March fifteenth, like a end of April

801
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: type scale, and it really showed you, like, all right,

802
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:53,439
Speaker 1: hunting pressure truly does shut these birds up to some degree. Yeah,

803
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: and I think we're we're there well on this hunt. Yeah.

804
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 2: Well, and then I mean there's multiple factors of play

805
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 2: because when once you are taking toms out of the population,

806
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 2: competition for hens decreases, like all of a sudden, the

807
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 2: tom doesn't have to gobble and attract these hens because

808
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 2: there's less toms out there for each hen.

809
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we're we're kind of in that lockdown phase

810
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: now where all of the there's a lot of hens

811
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: on the ground. Still we always forget the word. We

812
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 1: haven't seen a whole lot of the hens nesting all

813
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: day the old scat of a of a nesting all

814
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 1: day hen. There's only a clocker clock that I need

815
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 1: to remember that word, yeah, longer like six times, but like, yeah,

816
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: you're we're always just looking for sign and like very

817
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: few of those which starts and we're in you know,

818
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,240
Speaker 1: some of the some of the better stuff with turkeys

819
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: in it. And so it's like there's not a lot

820
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: of hens that are nesting full full time, and we're

821
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: not getting that nine the two like normally at the

822
00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 1: right time nine to two this time of May. Maybe

823
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: just maybe we're just a few days early, maybe a

824
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: week early. You'll get that big nine the noon or

825
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: nine the one o'clock push. And these birds are just

826
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: staying real quiet for the most part.

827
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think of I think there are some

828
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 2: hens that are definitely we're watching them. They're going to lay,

829
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 2: but I hope a bunch of them are incubating. But

830
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 2: you're right, there's not the whole kind of group of

831
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 2: hens definitely isn't out there incubating right now. We've been

832
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 2: definitely juked because of a few hens leading toms away

833
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 2: from us the other day. Yeah, or if you want

834
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 2: to go into what's happened hunting wise, yeah, we.

835
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: Could, Yeah, definitely share. Like the last story, we just

836
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 1: uh the last story, the last hunt, we were just

837
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: on you know, road locating. It's just it's a it's

838
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: a way to do it around here. When you got

839
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:51,240
Speaker 1: when you got some vertical advantage, got a bird to answer,

840
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: We figure out how to get in there, bump a

841
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: hen and I can't even make this up anymore. That's

842
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 1: how this week is kind of went. We've killed some.

843
00:42:58,400 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 2: Birds, but it's turkey hunting.

844
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 1: We bump ahn. She takes off flying all right, the

845
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: tom's the other way. She literally we think this is

846
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: the best that we can put together. She lands by

847
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: the tom and runs him out of the country.

848
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 2: The tom was strutting.

849
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, and gobbling it every Yeah, we saw the shutting. Yeah,

850
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: and so yeah we can we can talk about all

851
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: of our hunts and and kind of what's transpired and and.

852
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 2: Well, I think I think I was alluding to one

853
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 2: of the hottest birds that we had. Was just gorgeous

854
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 2: and he was a monster bird. He's one that like

855
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 2: you should devote a few days too. He came down.

856
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 2: We called him back actually off of some private that

857
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 2: seems to be a common theme too, called him off

858
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 2: some private. He was coming in and he was just

859
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 2: spitting and drumming for I don't know, it seemed like

860
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,439
Speaker 2: we could hear him forever. And and I didn't see

861
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 2: the Hen. Jason saw the hen. But yeah, hen kept

862
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 2: him right on the top and he didn't I think

863
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 2: what he maxed out at sixty five yards And.

864
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: That was one of those tough things where I honestly

865
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: believe and maybe he was following her the whole time,

866
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: but the way in my head it put together like

867
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: he was answering every single peep we made right like

868
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 1: very you know, double gobbles, like very rash. And he

869
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: started heading towards us, and I don't know if he

870
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 1: just intersected that hen or what because once he found her,

871
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 1: he only gobbled two more. Well he gobbled going away,

872
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 1: but like during that call and he didn't care about

873
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: us anymore. He found the real thing, and it was

874
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: just like, gosh, dang it, Like if you should have

875
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: stayed put her win a different direction, Like I felt

876
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: like it would have changed that whole the whole scenario of.

877
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, he kind of walked on the ridge and then

878
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 2: called back to us like, hey, come on, we're going

879
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 2: come on, you know. But once that hen kind of

880
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 2: led him over the next ridge, it was ye, game

881
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 2: over for us.

882
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know last night you took me on a

883
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 1: boondoggled to start tonight. I think he just wanted to

884
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: get my legs warmed up. So we climb up a

885
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: mountain and that wasn't too bad, six seven hundred feet

886
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 1: maybe from the truck. It was a good looking spot.

887
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:10,320
Speaker 1: Climb up there, and everybody, without saying it, is always

888
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 1: on the same page. I'm like, man, I ain't seen

889
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 1: a whole lot of Turkey sign And you get up

890
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: there and you're like, well, this is the road I

891
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: wanted to go on. I ain't seen any Turkey sign. Like,

892
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: let's just go back. So we get bebopping down there,

893
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: and I let a woodpecker call out right before the truck,

894
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: and I thought I heard a gobble. But I hate

895
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: being that guy that like, truck's got a pretty good

896
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: set of ears on him, and not not physically. I think, oh, yeah, yeah,

897
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: they're they're they're they're the right size. But he's got

898
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: a good good hearing. I'm half deaf this week. I

899
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: still got some issue. But so I've been relying a

900
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 1: lot on these guys because I've made some some pretty

901
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: bad calls. And I swear I heard a gobble and

902
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 1: he didn't say anything. I'm like, well, I'm just going

903
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 1: to keep this one to myself. And uh, we were

904
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: we got to the truck and you were going down

905
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 1: to the creek to do something, and uh, I was

906
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: sitting there dinking around, and I think I switched it

907
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 1: to the hawk scream and a hawk scream and you're like,

908
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 1: there's a gobble. I'm not. I didn't hear that one,

909
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 1: but I had heard the one before. I'm like, hey,

910
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: now I can tell you I thought I heard one

911
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 1: up there. And we we dink around and go down

912
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 1: to the rock pile and get them to look at.

913
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,840
Speaker 1: I mean, they're right there yards and this is what

914
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: three o'clock thirty like prime time usually when we get

915
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: a bird to gobble, then like, all right, we're in

916
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: the we're in the we're in the beans. You know

917
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 1: the berries. We're in the berries. We go grab all

918
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 1: of our stuff, reallyoad the gun. Blah blah blah. Go

919
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: down there, sneak in real quietly, get set up, do

920
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: a couple of little series of yelps, nothing more, seriously, yelps. Nothing.

921
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: We get up, we see that you know, some toms

922
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: had or a tom had crossed the creek there, and

923
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: we're like, man, it's hot, and maybe they're in that

924
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 1: shade line. So we we kind of work that way,

925
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: stay out of sight, call some more nothing so long

926
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: story shorts. We kind of worked this whole little pine

927
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: flat ye all the way down. I'm beautiful. It opens

928
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: up along the creek, you know clover that was three

929
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: inches deep, like just perfect, all kinds of turkey sign

930
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 1: in there. We push it maybe even farther than we think, like, man,

931
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: we had to have passed them by now unless this

932
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: thing was just on the on the move, man, you know,

933
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: you just lose those birds. You know what they call it,

934
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: the vanishing toll. Yeah, the vanishing Tommy, do you need us?

935
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 1: And so we're like, gosh, you know, you lick your

936
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 1: wounds and you walk back to the truck where we

937
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 1: we were able to get advantage. We got in the

938
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 1: truck and we were going to continue running this road

939
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 1: system and looking for good stuff. And we get there

940
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 1: and we were like, maybe we'll just locate one more

941
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: time off of this corner, and uh, chuck spotted a

942
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 1: turkey down in the clear cut and then lo and

943
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: behold him and a hen were down there, not more

944
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:45,720
Speaker 1: than one hundred yards from wore. We stopped our little

945
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: hike about trying to get.

946
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 2: Him a little roughly.

947
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,839
Speaker 1: And so that is like maddening as a hunter when

948
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: they're in this quote. I call it the lockdown, their

949
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 1: hind up, whatever you want to call it. You know,

950
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 1: I still the lockdown from the white tail world. But

951
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 1: it's like to be like we said, there's not not

952
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: saying we're walking forever for turkey. And we put some

953
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 1: sixteen mile days in fifteen mile days, and it's maddening

954
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: to know that you were that close to a turkey

955
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 1: and little hone yelps, little locator calls whatever, and they're

956
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,280
Speaker 1: not going to talk. So it's like, how many birds

957
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: have we passed or we drove by or we've walked

958
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: by that just will not answer because they're so hinned

959
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:24,319
Speaker 1: up right now.

960
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that one was wild too, because we looked

961
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 2: at that bird and you know, I had my binos,

962
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 2: I grabbed my binos out and he spotted us. We

963
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 2: are probably seven hundred and fifty yards away and he

964
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 2: spotted us, and he started ducking and jiving and going

965
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 2: through and then looking back at us. And he was

966
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 2: a beautiful specimen. I mean he was He's an old

967
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 2: bird and he just kind of knew the game.

968
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: Yep, No, it was that was a tough one. We

969
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 1: we may we may give him our evening after after

970
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: this podcast.

971
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's probably worth it.

972
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: So as relating biology to to becoming a better turkey hunter,

973
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 1: what are I don't want to just put you on

974
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 1: the spot and say what what would you know? What

975
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 1: do we need to be thinking about? But like let's

976
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 1: just start through a normal day, like you roostered a bird, Like,

977
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: what's going on in that turkey? Said? Does that that

978
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 1: Tom knows? Does that Tom remember after sleeping that night

979
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 1: that there were hens at roosted next to him.

980
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, so a lot of times it changes up. Tom's

981
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 2: a lot of times don't nest with hens, like real

982
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 2: close to hens. There are. I mean sometimes in the

983
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 2: winter flocks they are close. But even in the winter times,

984
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 2: a lot of times h Tom's kind of segregate themselves

985
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 2: and they'll they'll sleep in different trees. But right now,

986
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 2: let's just say, like a tom, you know, most of

987
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 2: them hens are starting to go off, hens are starting

988
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 2: to go lay. You're gonna start running into hens that

989
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 2: are roosting by themselves. And here some to some turkeys

990
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 2: have high sight fidelity to their roosts. They will go

991
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,320
Speaker 2: back night after night. You know a lot of rio's

992
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 2: especially places where there's not many roosting options, but here

993
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 2: they're they're roosting options, yeah, unlimited. And so we're having

994
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 2: like we kind of their general area. They're going back

995
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 2: to the general area at least some of the toms.

996
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 2: Some of them are just gone, like they're just went

997
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 2: somewhere else. They're traveling. But so these toms, you know,

998
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 2: like they're they're up there and like this one this morning,

999
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 2: let's just go with him. He's up there by himself

1000
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 2: and he's, yeah, looking for a hen. And a lot

1001
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,359
Speaker 2: of times I think, like with calling people, they don't

1002
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 2: know what to do. Uh should we tree help to him?

1003
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 2: You know, in the in the wee hours, Like he's

1004
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 2: up there, he finally starts gobbling. Some people say, like,

1005
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 2: you know, give him a little tree up, let him

1006
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 2: know you're there. But a lot of times, especially in

1007
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 2: this like big topography, Uh, the toms are like, Okay,

1008
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 2: the hen's there. Like even if he thinks you're a

1009
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 2: hen in a tree, that's fine. He kind of he

1010
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,799
Speaker 2: knows you're there. I mean, they can here phenomenal. I'm

1011
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 2: one of the guys that's like they like I think

1012
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 2: a turkey can hear somebody sneeze two miles away and

1013
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 2: see a tick under a a leaf at three hundred yards.

1014
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 2: I'm like one of those type of hunters. But so

1015
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 2: they know you're there. But really, like this Tom this morning,

1016
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:22,720
Speaker 2: he bombed out of his tree, just set his wings

1017
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 2: and went four hundred yards down kind of canyon. And

1018
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 2: so really a lot of times it's not even beneficial

1019
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:31,879
Speaker 2: to call until they're on the ground because really then

1020
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 2: it's like oh, I think those hens are also on

1021
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,240
Speaker 2: the ground, and that's like kind of they're they're loafing.

1022
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 2: That's that's like where they're gonna assemble for the morning.

1023
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 2: So if you don't call until that time, then they're

1024
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 2: gonna come looking for you instead of like, I'm not

1025
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:49,919
Speaker 2: gonna go back to her tree because she's not there.

1026
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 2: She flew somewhere else.

1027
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 1: Yep. So when when the other so let's say there

1028
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 1: were hens around us. We didn't hear him this morning,

1029
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 1: call it all. We gave one little off trio. He

1030
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: I don't feel like you recognized it, but he definitely

1031
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 1: heard it. Like he didn't say, you know, he didn't

1032
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: gobble right on top. He obviously heard. It was a

1033
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:10,320
Speaker 1: quiet morning. He was only a couple one hundred and

1034
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: twenty yards away, maybe from somewhere one hundred and fifty.

1035
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 1: If another hen starts the ope, are you competing? Are

1036
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:18,359
Speaker 1: you doing what she's doing now or are you trying

1037
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: to compete? Or does it now? Do you start to

1038
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 1: call more if she's involved, or you still just want

1039
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 1: to be the hen on the ground.

1040
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, if that hen starts calling back, really at this point,

1041
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 2: like you said, but some of these birds are hend up.

1042
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:31,919
Speaker 2: They're not in these I guess quote unquote like hend

1043
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 2: up as in big groups of hens, but they are

1044
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,799
Speaker 2: like glued to a couple hens or one hen, and

1045
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 2: really like a good thing to do right now is

1046
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 2: to make that other hen mad because because some of

1047
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 2: these hens too as well, or they're going off to

1048
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 2: lay and they don't want other hens following them, so

1049
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 2: they don't even really want that other hen in their vicinity.

1050
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 2: So they're gonna go kind of bump you out of there.

1051
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,479
Speaker 2: And you hope if you if you kind of tick

1052
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 2: this hen off and a lot of people, you know

1053
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 2: that you just mimic them a little louder. Cut her off,

1054
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:02,959
Speaker 2: like when she starts helping, you just cut her off.

1055
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 2: You know, you kind of walk all over her, and

1056
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:08,280
Speaker 2: you hope that you make her mad and she brings

1057
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 2: the tom in toe yep.

1058
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 1: So that kind of that kind of goes through my

1059
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 1: questions in the morning. So Tom pitches off, and then

1060
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:17,879
Speaker 1: if he doesn't gobble and he hits the ground, it's

1061
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 1: almost an indication right away that he's got a hen already,

1062
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: right because he's not he's no longer making noise. He's

1063
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 1: got what he wants.

1064
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's pretty occupied.

1065
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 1: So that bird this morning never gobbled again. He wants

1066
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 1: to hit the ground. So he obviously either knew where

1067
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:33,719
Speaker 1: those hens were and or where they've met up for

1068
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:35,720
Speaker 1: the last couple of days, or like in your mind,

1069
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 1: like do they have that routine? Could because he hit

1070
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 1: the ground, never gobbled, and then later on we figured

1071
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,800
Speaker 1: out that there were two hens down in that general vicinity.

1072
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 1: He pitched down joins them. And so as a hunter,

1073
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 1: if you are sitting hunting the roost and it doesn't

1074
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 1: go your way and that bird no longer gobbles, you

1075
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 1: should assume that he's with hens. Yeah, Now that does

1076
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 1: that mean? It's just information? Right? You may be the hunter.

1077
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 1: It's like, man, I don't want to that bird. I

1078
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,439
Speaker 1: want to hear the gobble. Then go chase the one

1079
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 1: across the canyon that's on the ground, or you know,

1080
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 1: a different direction that's still gobbling, because that bird's obviously

1081
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:10,400
Speaker 1: still looking for a hand or more hens. Yeah, and

1082
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: is more susceptive to quote unquote being called in or

1083
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 1: playing the game.

1084
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, the safe play would be wait till he starts gobbling,

1085
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:20,879
Speaker 2: because he because at that point he's probably gobbling at you.

1086
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 2: To like, hey, I'm down here, come to me.

1087
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you can work your play, get some

1088
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 1: vegetation or whatever you need. So we've told you what

1089
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 1: our play was. We go and try to hunt the

1090
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:36,760
Speaker 1: bird that's not gobbling like he sounded big, he sounded healthy.

1091
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 1: We didn't want the one across the canyon that was

1092
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 1: still gobbling when he hit the ground. We wanted the

1093
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,760
Speaker 1: one that and so it's just tough, like we've already

1094
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: mentioned it, Like if if you told me that, like

1095
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 1: my life depended on it, or you know, there's a

1096
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:53,320
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars cash prize you can to kill out turkey.

1097
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 1: I probably would not have pulled a call out just

1098
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,399
Speaker 1: the way he was acting today. Unless it was just

1099
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 1: a locator and alcohol, an alice scream, a woodpecker, we

1100
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: would have just been better off to go sit on

1101
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,439
Speaker 1: that old road that obviously it was a pretty brushy area,

1102
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 1: but he had a couple of clean pass and just

1103
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 1: sat like a bird that's that wise probably been hunted,

1104
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 1: has hisns. You're just gonna have to wait for something

1105
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:16,760
Speaker 1: to happen. You know, we're throwing decoys out, we're calling

1106
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,320
Speaker 1: The reality is, if you really want to kill that bird.

1107
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 1: Prbaight back up, get a really good spot, get comfortable,

1108
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 1: and just wait for that thing to walk by.

1109
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably the best play, if I mean armchair armchair

1110
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 2: quarterback this thing, would be to wait till he gobbles,

1111
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 2: maybe give him two gobbles, and try to see what

1112
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:39,240
Speaker 2: kind of direction he's going on, you know, like what's

1113
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 2: his vector, like his rate of direction as well, and

1114
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 2: then probably run down the ridge and get in front

1115
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 2: of him, yep.

1116
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:51,799
Speaker 1: In which we did until he got what within one

1117
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 1: hundred yards, and and this bird was gobbling every twenty minutes.

1118
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 1: We were trying not to call. We would do a

1119
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 1: little yelp series and then shut up for twenty minutes

1120
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: and almost to the clock on our watch.

1121
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, nineteen minutes, and like forty five, nineteen minutes and

1122
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 2: a half.

1123
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 1: He would gobble same thing the second week, so we

1124
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 1: yelp after he gobbles a little bit, let him know

1125
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 1: where we're at. Nineteen minutes. And then unfortunately we were

1126
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 1: about where the ridge runs out, and you should run

1127
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: into this grassy road like everything you're you know, you

1128
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 1: couldn't have drawn it up any better. And he decides

1129
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 1: to go back up the stinking mountain. That was his Yeah,

1130
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 1: I mean, and in reality, he was trying to get

1131
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 1: us to go to him. He was one hundred. He

1132
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 1: came in my mind, I'm taking that turkey. He's like, dude,

1133
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 1: or hey lady, I came all the way down here

1134
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 1: and got this close deal out. Now you need to

1135
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 1: come up here in this timber and go the rest

1136
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 1: of the way.

1137
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:41,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't want to be like Arrior. We're

1138
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 2: hunting the biggest, oldest, most awesome turkey ever because we

1139
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 2: never saw him, but this guy had a gobble on

1140
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:52,839
Speaker 2: him like you wouldn't believe. And honestly, I think he'd

1141
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 2: probably played the game and he's one of those birds

1142
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 2: that you need to come to him and he will

1143
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 2: never come to you. And he was staying in some

1144
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 2: thicker stuff and so he knew what was coming at

1145
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:06,400
Speaker 2: him and he wasn't going to be surprised because he's

1146
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:08,680
Speaker 2: he's had the game played on him.

1147
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 1: Yep, gotcha. So we got birds like that that are

1148
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: just they're they're tough. So normally in a day like

1149
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 1: that low day, we we tend to wait and maybe

1150
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 1: we're giving out too much information here. We we tend

1151
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 1: to wait until nine or ten o'clock. You know, some

1152
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 1: guys will get discouraged to go back to the truck

1153
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 1: if you know there's a bird around there. Ideally you

1154
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 1: should probably wait until that nine and ten to see

1155
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 1: if they come back alive, right, or when I say

1156
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 1: come back alive, they're gobbling again. They're huntable for a

1157
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 1: short time, you know, tend to one. It's been really

1158
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 1: really hot here this week, so after about one to

1159
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: five they truly do shut down. We have I don't

1160
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 1: think we've heard more than a couple goble just.

1161
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 2: One yet those yeah yesterday.

1162
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we've and I've always just felt and I

1163
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 1: think you know, most hunters that have hunted this way,

1164
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 1: you get that bird to gobble midday usually have a

1165
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 1: pretty good chance because he's most likely gobbling because he

1166
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 1: doesn't have hisns at that time. Again, yep, yeah, so

1167
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 1: that's typically our approach. And I was telling you guys there,

1168
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 1: they're like one of the most satisfying things of Turkey

1169
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 1: canting for me is not anybody can go here gobbles

1170
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 1: on the roost. It's when you're putting in boot miles

1171
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 1: and you're cranking a box call into these canyons, or

1172
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 1: you're blowing and you finally strike up a bird after

1173
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 1: three or four miles or nothing, and and that's like,

1174
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 1: that's what is probably if you could pull one thing

1175
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 1: out of this. It's like even if we don't kill him,

1176
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 1: Like it's like every time you swipe that paddle, you're like, well,

1177
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:37,600
Speaker 1: high hopes, and then it's no, you know, but when

1178
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: it finally cranks over and and that bird cranks up,

1179
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 1: and you you feel like you got a good chance,

1180
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: and you're you know, you're coming up with your plan.

1181
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 1: Like that's that's the fun of it for me. And

1182
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 1: then these birds have been getting active again around six o'clock,

1183
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: so we we try to get into a what looks

1184
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 1: like good turkey habitat typically is what you think of

1185
00:58:57,880 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: turkey would like. Yeah, and so we've been trying to

1186
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 1: just getting to the good stuff five by fifteen, and

1187
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 1: you know, strike one up and then it's kind of

1188
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 1: it's a race to the roost, right the hens are

1189
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 1: kind of back on the ground or they're back with

1190
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 1: the toms, but there's a chance to call them in

1191
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 1: that what lasts two and a half hours.

1192
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think a lot of times we probably

1193
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 2: had it would have a little bit more timeframe there,

1194
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 2: but it has been really hot for two days and

1195
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 2: so it was like we're putting in the sweat equity

1196
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 2: big time. And honestly, that six o'clock time, I don't

1197
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 2: think it was so much about the timeline is fine.

1198
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 2: It was finally cool, and so birds would start moving around.

1199
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:43,920
Speaker 2: Like one awesome thing about that bird that was was

1200
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 2: spitting and drumming down to us the other day. It

1201
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 2: was so amazing watching him because it was kind of

1202
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 2: mid afternoon time and it was amazing watching him use

1203
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:56,959
Speaker 2: the shadows of the trees. He would go under them

1204
00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 2: and he would sit and spit and drum and display,

1205
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 2: and then he would move to the next shadow and

1206
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 2: then he would and he would perform the same thing there,

1207
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 2: and it was it was like neat to watch him

1208
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 2: like kind of use the shadow for for some thermal regulation.

1209
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 2: It was it was super neat.

1210
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 1: To Yeah, we couldn't get him out of the shadows

1211
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 1: for you didn't want to be on the camera. And

1212
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 1: then we crossed over through the sun. It was real quick. Yeah,

1213
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 1: didn't give us a very good look. Yeah, it's it's

1214
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 1: been it's been tough, but there's there's a lot of birds,

1215
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:32,800
Speaker 1: you know, in and around, and then one thing we

1216
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 1: we always do, and I don't do it so much

1217
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 1: for Easterns because they're what used a fancy word for,

1218
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 1: like they like to use the same roof trees like

1219
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:44,520
Speaker 1: rios site fidelity, yeah, site. So we're calling these marios though,

1220
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 1: right A lot of them are, and they seem to

1221
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 1: be I don't think. I mean, they've been in the

1222
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,360
Speaker 1: general same vicinity, but they're always kind of moving roosts

1223
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 1: within a quarter mile or eight, you know, these birds

1224
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 1: are always kind of kind of moving. So we always

1225
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 1: like to go out and roosts because it just whether

1226
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 1: it's the best chance of success or not. Like we

1227
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: just love that morning, you know, listen to the woods,

1228
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 1: and so we go out and roost. You know, we've

1229
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 1: been using what Kyle howls woodpecker. We just kind of, yeah,

1230
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:14,000
Speaker 1: throw the gam at it. The only we've talked about

1231
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 1: this before the only time in the entire Turkey call

1232
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 1: woods I use is a night roost because I don't

1233
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 1: want that bird thinking there's a kyo on the landscape anywhere,

1234
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 1: no matter how close or far I am. I don't

1235
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 1: want them nervous. Is there any I've I've left. We've

1236
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 1: had hours of conversation. Is there anything like that where

1237
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 1: the biology or anything that you've done or research that

1238
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 1: like can can translate to to becoming a better turkey hunter.

1239
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 1: I'm sure you could. Like we don't got ten hours

1240
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:42,560
Speaker 1: to talk about this, but like we're just talking about

1241
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:44,240
Speaker 1: like the real general nuts and bolts, you know, the

1242
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 1: nesting times when when the toms should be susceptible. You

1243
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 1: know what you should be thinking about, what that that

1244
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 1: tom is thinking about.

1245
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:54,920
Speaker 2: I don't know if I can link anything real like

1246
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 2: directly back to research, but like you said, we like

1247
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:00,480
Speaker 2: to be out there first thing in the morning just

1248
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 2: because it's fun to see the woods come alive. Everybody

1249
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 2: loves that, you know. We don't love like waking up

1250
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 2: so much at three twenty in the morning, but we

1251
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:13,439
Speaker 2: love that. But honestly, if you had to, let's just say,

1252
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 2: what would you say, I don't know, put a gun

1253
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 2: in your head or give you some kind of cash

1254
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 2: prize for killing a bird. Honestly, that that nine to

1255
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:23,080
Speaker 2: one window, I would maybe even say ten to one

1256
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:27,480
Speaker 2: or ten to two. That's the time when birds are killable,

1257
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 2: they're workable, and so it's a lot like stay out

1258
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 2: in the woods. And we've been putting in a lot

1259
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 2: of just dark to dark, which has been awesome. I

1260
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 2: think we all appreciate the grind here and so that's

1261
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 2: been super fun to do. And the old adage of

1262
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 2: like you can't kill him from the couch. Yeah, you know,

1263
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 2: like just go out and enjoy it.

1264
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:49,520
Speaker 1: Yep. And one thing we've talked about a lot is

1265
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 1: you know, we talked about putting the calls away, but

1266
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 1: I honestly think you can still run the calls, like

1267
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 1: let things you know, you're there. It needs to be subtle,

1268
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:01,600
Speaker 1: you know. Natural hen isn't out there just yeah, yeah

1269
01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 1: the whole time she's you know, you know, to be

1270
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:10,800
Speaker 1: a natural caller, don't overdo it, do it sparingly, always

1271
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:14,680
Speaker 1: kind of be ready. But patience as aggressive as we

1272
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 1: are at times, the patience on the other like if

1273
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 1: you can figure out when and how to be patient

1274
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 1: and then when to be aggressive. We've talked about this

1275
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:24,360
Speaker 1: a lot. I think we would we would have killed

1276
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 1: more birds or filled more tags. I mean we filled

1277
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:29,920
Speaker 1: you know, filled some tags, but I think being patient,

1278
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 1: like and there's some data that supports like if that

1279
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 1: tom answers you and acknowledges that you're there as a hen,

1280
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 1: he will come I don't remember the number, like above,

1281
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 1: fifty percent of the time he will come back to

1282
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 1: that spot to check on you three hours within three hours.

1283
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're exactly right.

1284
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 1: Something that I don't I'm not quoting it exactly, but

1285
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: it's close to those numbers. Yeah, And so with that

1286
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:54,440
Speaker 1: in mind, like now, if you're out there for a

1287
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 1: different reason and you only want to chase gobbles and

1288
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 1: you're only going to kill a bird that you chase

1289
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:00,640
Speaker 1: down and call in and then by all means don't,

1290
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 1: but yeah, be patients working patients into heavily traveled areas

1291
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:08,520
Speaker 1: where the bird acknowledges you, it's probably a better way

1292
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:09,520
Speaker 1: to notch tags.

1293
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it's worth noting there's different strategies

1294
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:17,479
Speaker 2: based off of your area. Like if I only had

1295
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:20,400
Speaker 2: let's just say, a small tiny chunk of public or

1296
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:24,479
Speaker 2: even a small tiny chunk of private, and I did

1297
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 2: have ample time to hunt, I wouldn't run in there

1298
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 2: and start chasing everything around and being crazy aggressive because

1299
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 2: in one day you can kind of screw that whole

1300
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:37,920
Speaker 2: area up and you're done. So patience is one hundred

1301
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 2: percent your game. It's really your only option. But here

1302
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:44,040
Speaker 2: we have a lot of public land and we're just

1303
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:47,520
Speaker 2: kind of going around. Honestly, we're seeing new land. Like

1304
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 2: it's about kind of seeing trophy country as well as

1305
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 2: playing with these birds. So it's like if we run

1306
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:55,760
Speaker 2: and gun and we mess some stuff up, like one

1307
01:04:55,840 --> 01:04:58,480
Speaker 2: hundred percent, we acknowledge we messed some birds up, we

1308
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 2: just move on to the next area. We have that

1309
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 2: ability to go to the next area. Yeah, and so

1310
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:07,320
Speaker 2: and but like you said, patients, it's been written about

1311
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 2: patience kills more turkeys than anything else, period, full stop.

1312
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:15,440
Speaker 1: And we talked about it this morning. Of course we

1313
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:17,760
Speaker 1: only got four days. We're on a you know, to hunt.

1314
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:20,240
Speaker 1: We're on a quick trip and you know we're killing birds.

1315
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:23,120
Speaker 1: But like this morning, the bird pitched out of the

1316
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 1: roost the wrong way, Like we could have killed him

1317
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:26,720
Speaker 1: on the roofs not educated him obviously because he'd have

1318
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 1: been dead. But like this morning, he turns pitches down.

1319
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 1: So if we go, if we would have just picked

1320
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:33,240
Speaker 1: up the dcoy walked back to the truck and went

1321
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:35,439
Speaker 1: and frond a different bird, we now know where he's

1322
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 1: trying to go in the morning. Now tomorrow we make

1323
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 1: a change. We get down there before perform, you know,

1324
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:42,520
Speaker 1: set up the decoy where he wants to be if

1325
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 1: he's in that general area, knowing that's where he's gonna go.

1326
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 1: So like we don't have the necessarily the the advantage

1327
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 1: or the luxury of like semi patterning slash scouting these

1328
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:56,600
Speaker 1: birds making adjustments to our plan. We're like, well, we

1329
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 1: you know, last morning or it's you know, only got

1330
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 1: two days left, we can go find some other birds,

1331
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 1: Like let's just go pressure them.

1332
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:05,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like, I mean, everybody kind of has their

1333
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 2: own strategy. I like playing that chess game of like

1334
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:10,840
Speaker 2: I just kind of work one bird for multiple days.

1335
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 2: And here we're kind of splitting up into two different groups.

1336
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 2: I guess the one group, Like he says, Team Maverick.

1337
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 2: I don't know what that makes us, Like, are we iceman?

1338
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:21,720
Speaker 1: I think you tried to last night he had we're

1339
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 1: the B team. I thought was disrespectful, but yeah, no, yeah,

1340
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:32,960
Speaker 1: and everybody's like the why they're the B team? I'm

1341
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:36,960
Speaker 1: changing anything absolutely, but Team Maverick is. I think they

1342
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:39,439
Speaker 1: the entire week have hiked as much as we did

1343
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:42,040
Speaker 1: in a typical morning so it's like different ways to

1344
01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:45,680
Speaker 1: do it different but uh yeah, like we're we're just

1345
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:48,960
Speaker 1: out there covering, like you said, trophy country, you know,

1346
01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:51,760
Speaker 1: the birds, the bonus where we're getting the se cool stuff,

1347
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:54,360
Speaker 1: you know, and trying to hunt them the way we

1348
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:56,840
Speaker 1: want to. But it's you know, getting whipped a little bit.

1349
01:06:56,840 --> 01:06:57,479
Speaker 1: We've killed some.

1350
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:01,920
Speaker 2: We we ran into a pack of wolves. Yeah, that

1351
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 2: was awesome. That probably screwed up a bunch of birds,

1352
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:09,400
Speaker 2: but that was pretty sweet. Ran into a nice big bear, yeah,

1353
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 2: big black bear. We've seen some lots of lots of deer.

1354
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:13,920
Speaker 2: It's just it's been it's been a good trip.

1355
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:17,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I appreciate, you know, getting the link up,

1356
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:20,320
Speaker 1: and I'm sure sure at some point we'll we'll share

1357
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 1: share the Turkey Woods again together. How do you you

1358
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:24,760
Speaker 1: know what, how do we close this out? How people

1359
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 1: find out more? But if you don't want people to

1360
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:28,000
Speaker 1: know more about you than biomeans share, how do they

1361
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 1: find out more about NWTF or ways that they can

1362
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 1: just be involved in these conversations, you know, around management

1363
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:37,080
Speaker 1: or around like stand up to date on on this

1364
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:38,000
Speaker 1: newest information.

1365
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 2: Okay, let's do I guess the bigger, more important one first, yeah,

1366
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 2: please look up the National Wild Turkey Federation. We definitely

1367
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:49,720
Speaker 2: were one hundred percent turkeys and hunting heritage. Our mission

1368
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:52,800
Speaker 2: is the conservation of the wild turkey and the preservation

1369
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:56,560
Speaker 2: of our hunting heritage, and we do a lot of projects.

1370
01:07:56,640 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 2: We have a state chapter in every I think every state,

1371
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:03,960
Speaker 2: even Hawaii, and I believe we have one in Alaska too,

1372
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:08,240
Speaker 2: but there's no tur turkeys, but definitely in these states

1373
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:11,080
Speaker 2: up here in the Pacific Northwest, and you can kind

1374
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:13,760
Speaker 2: of engage with what's going on in the turkey woods

1375
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:16,679
Speaker 2: and also what we do on the ground habitat wise.

1376
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:20,920
Speaker 2: We do tons of landscape scale projects and we're also

1377
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:27,040
Speaker 2: very active in looking at legislation kind of getting that

1378
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:30,680
Speaker 2: information out to all of our members, you know, for

1379
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:33,360
Speaker 2: the hunting heritage side, and that's also like what we

1380
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:37,680
Speaker 2: work with. We advise. We don't do any of the

1381
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:42,000
Speaker 2: actual management. We just help state agencies and we advise

1382
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:45,920
Speaker 2: them on it. We also do a lot of turkey research.

1383
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 2: We put over a million dollars I share in turkey research.

1384
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:51,519
Speaker 2: So we're definitely the leaders in that world. And yeah,

1385
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 2: please look us up and uh yeah, I become a

1386
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:57,759
Speaker 2: member and just become just be involved. Like turkey hunters

1387
01:08:57,800 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 2: are super passionate, and honestly, there's not a lot of

1388
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:03,400
Speaker 2: them that are kind of engaged in the West. We

1389
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:05,280
Speaker 2: have a lot of members back East, but in the

1390
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 2: West we're kind of lacking, and so i'd been great

1391
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:10,440
Speaker 2: to see a bump in it. And as far as myself,

1392
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 2: you can look me up on social media. I'm on

1393
01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:18,920
Speaker 2: Chuck Carpenter, I I I and that's my Instagram handle. Stuff.

1394
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:19,639
Speaker 2: Just look me up.

1395
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 1: Is your big giant buck on there? That it is?

1396
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:27,240
Speaker 1: That it is? He drew one of the probably the

1397
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 1: single best meal deer take in the world.

1398
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:32,120
Speaker 2: That's another podcast.

1399
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:33,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's another podcast.

1400
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:34,759
Speaker 2: We'll two podcasts.

1401
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:36,479
Speaker 1: You go to your own research and figure out what

1402
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:38,080
Speaker 1: it was and then how big of a bucket? Gil,

1403
01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:40,879
Speaker 1: But it's a it's a dandy. No. I really appreciate

1404
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 1: having you on Chuck. It's been a blast this week.

1405
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:46,360
Speaker 1: And now that we we've sat through this and and

1406
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:48,720
Speaker 1: got the work out of the way, let's go out

1407
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:49,720
Speaker 1: and see if we can't find a bird.

1408
01:09:49,840 --> 01:10:01,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's time. Thank you, Jason, thank you