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Speaker 1: This was exactly the thing that My So Called Life

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Speaker 1: was trying to counter, but instead of lasting one season,

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Speaker 1: lasted many seasons, and one of the critics actually said

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Speaker 1: it was arguably one of the worst long running.

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Speaker 2: Shows on television.

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Speaker 3: I'm Jessica Bennett and I'm Susie Bannacarum.

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Speaker 4: And this is in retrospect, where each week we revisit

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Speaker 4: a cultural moment from the past that shaped us.

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Speaker 2: And that we just can't stop thinking about.

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Speaker 4: Today, we're delving into some of the great ideas that you,

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Speaker 4: our listeners, have sent in. We've been asking for your suggestions,

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Speaker 4: and these are some of the moments that you can't.

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Speaker 3: Stop thinking about.

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Speaker 1: Jess people sent in so many good ideas, and some

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Speaker 1: of them were things we had thought of, but some

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Speaker 1: of them weren't. And this first one we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about was something I didn't even know existed, which

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Speaker 1: is a suggestion that we talk about Generation Catillano, which

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Speaker 1: is based on a character in My So Called Life,

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Speaker 1: a show you and I were both obsessed with.

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Speaker 2: Will you tell us about it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: So, Generation Catialana is based on Jordan Catalano. Snaps to Lisa,

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Speaker 4: who sent this in, because I am still in love

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Speaker 4: with Jordan Catalano.

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Speaker 2: Yes, me too, the fact that we come here, let's

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Speaker 2: keep it like our secret.

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Speaker 4: He was played by Jared Letter, And to be clear,

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Speaker 4: I'm not saying this about Jordan Letter.

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Speaker 3: I'm saying it about the character.

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Speaker 4: But my so called life was this show that ran

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Speaker 4: for one season, tragically only one ragide and it was

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Speaker 4: a high school drama.

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Speaker 3: It made Claire Dance famous.

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Speaker 4: She played the lead character who was also the narrator,

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Speaker 4: Angela Chase, and Angela's love interest was Jordan Catalano.

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Speaker 5: The thought that I might be seeing Jordan Catalano in

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Speaker 5: a few hours was like impossible to comprehend.

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Speaker 4: There was also her two best friends, Ricky and ray Yanne.

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Speaker 4: This was a high school drama that didn't have the

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Speaker 4: kind of sack grend earnestness or like after school special

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Speaker 4: sense vibes that like Thousands Creek did. It was for

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Speaker 4: emo types who wore flannel and docs and were like

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Speaker 4: really in their feelings.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I wore flannel and docs, but I would

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Speaker 1: never have described myself as emo. But when you say that,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I should confess that I wrote really dark,

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Speaker 1: lame poetry at this time of my life, so maybe

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Speaker 1: I did qualify as EMO. But this concept that Lisa

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Speaker 1: sent in, this concept of generation cattleano, I had not

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Speaker 1: heard about this before.

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Speaker 2: What does it mean?

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Speaker 4: It basically describes where you and I meet, which is

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Speaker 4: this generation between gen X and millennials. Like I'm a millennial,

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Speaker 4: you are gen X, but we have this focal point,

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Speaker 4: this reference between us.

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Speaker 1: Yes, because I never really felt quite gen X. So

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Speaker 1: I love that there's this other mic, the other way.

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Speaker 3: Of saying cusp right, yeah, Like it's more fun.

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Speaker 4: And actually I feel like we should note that I

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Speaker 4: mentioned the tragedy my circle.

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Speaker 3: Life only ran for one season.

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Speaker 4: And that was despite the best efforts of our producer, Lauren,

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Speaker 4: who when she was a teenager wrote many letters to

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Speaker 4: the creators.

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Speaker 3: Of that show to try to get it to continue.

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Speaker 4: And I remember that big like such a thing, like

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Speaker 4: we were devastated, devastated.

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Speaker 1: I was devastated when it was canceled. It was kind

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Speaker 1: of like Freaks and Geeks. Although I did not watch

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Speaker 1: Freaks and Geeks when it was actually on the air,

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Speaker 1: I watched it many years later, so I did not feel.

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Speaker 2: That tragedy when it was canceled after one year.

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Speaker 1: Right, But I remember being so upset when my Socles

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Speaker 1: life was canceled.

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Speaker 4: I rewatched My Circled Life a fe years ago and

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Speaker 4: it does hold up, like I cried.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it really brought me back.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: It was a high school drama. It was like love interests, friends, parents.

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Speaker 4: There was a coming out story with Ricky, but it

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Speaker 4: just had so much raw emotion behind it, and it

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Speaker 4: really brought me back to that age.

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Speaker 2: Oh God, I really should rewatch it too.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like this is a good time for

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Speaker 1: me to tell you about my proudest fashion moment of

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Speaker 1: all time, which is that when I was at ABC News,

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Speaker 1: I interviewed Claire Danes for.

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Speaker 2: Something Oh you did.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I was wearing like a cool black suit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I was wearing these baby blue sneakers with it,

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Speaker 1: which wasn't like so common at that time, and she

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Speaker 1: was like, I really like your sneakers.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's cool. Was this wait? This was later? This

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Speaker 3: was like Homeland era.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this was Homeland air.

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Speaker 1: This was like when I was working in news, so

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Speaker 1: I must have already been in my thirties.

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Speaker 4: I feel like we should also note that in the

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Speaker 4: show she had this like dark red hair kind of

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Speaker 4: like long Bob, and I spent so long trying to

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Speaker 4: get that hair color it would never really work. And

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Speaker 4: my hair because I have dark brown hair, like everyone

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Speaker 4: wanted that hair.

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Speaker 2: Yes, who is a battlefield for your heart?

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Speaker 7: So when brand Graft told me my hair was only

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Speaker 7: the deck, I had to listen.

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Speaker 1: Well, she just was very cool, even though she wasn't.

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Speaker 1: The character she was playing wasn't supposed to be popular

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Speaker 1: or cool in the way the traditional.

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Speaker 2: Teen shows set that up.

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Speaker 1: So that's I think the other reason it felt very

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Speaker 1: relatable because she was a cool person, but she wasn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily cool in high school, which is not the same

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Speaker 1: thing people.

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Speaker 8: Always say, how you should be yourself, Like yourself is

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Speaker 8: this definite thing like a toaster or something.

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Speaker 4: She was saying the uncool thing. Yeah, that you were

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Speaker 4: thinking on the inside, which is like why won't this

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Speaker 4: guy acknowledge me? Like there's something here, we feel something.

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Speaker 3: And there was so.

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Speaker 4: Many just like tense, so rare, like longing stairs through

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Speaker 4: the hallway, Oh my god. But then he'd like ignore

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Speaker 4: her later, which anyone who's been in high school and

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Speaker 4: had love interests remembers, Yes, but particularly maybe in this

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Speaker 4: time and but she like says it out loud, Like

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Speaker 4: there's a scene where she's like, why are you like this?

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Speaker 2: Why are you like this?

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Speaker 3: Like what like how you are?

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Speaker 1: I do want to say that Lisa is not the

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Speaker 1: only person who suggested My So Called Life. Actually, my

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Speaker 1: friend Lauren's husband has become addicted to the show. She

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Speaker 1: said she got him addicted to it. And Lauren is

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Speaker 1: an old friend of mine from ABC, and she sent

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Speaker 1: me a text saying he thought we should do My

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Speaker 1: So Called Life or Working Girl because we've mentioned that

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Speaker 1: movie a few times and I think that's a really

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Speaker 1: good idea. He also wanted to give us a little

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Speaker 1: intel on something we talked about in the Amy Fisher episode,

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Speaker 1: which is that Joey Betafuco was really into arm wrestling,

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Speaker 1: and he wanted to let us know that there was

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Speaker 1: an effort in the eighties to make Heies Digg's arm

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Speaker 1: wrestling a thing on Long Island.

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Speaker 2: So he just wanted to give a little pizza.

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Speaker 1: Yes, wanted to update on that a little piece of

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Speaker 1: Long Island history.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure my Long Island relatives so ill appreciate that.

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Speaker 4: Let's get to our next suggestion. This one came from

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Speaker 4: again a number of people, Betsy Watson, Jamie Kramer, and

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Speaker 4: Shannon Paris, thank you all for writing in. And this

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Speaker 4: is that moment between Nancy Kerrigan and Tanya Harding.

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Speaker 2: The infamous clubbing heard around the world.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, Kerrigan was hit several times on the leg around

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Speaker 7: the knee by what's being described as.

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Speaker 2: A club of some sort. So I definitely remember this.

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Speaker 1: This was a story I was very into and for

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Speaker 1: people who haven't seen it, Eitania is.

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Speaker 2: Such a good movie about this.

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Speaker 1: But the background here is basically that in nineteen ninety four,

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Speaker 1: Harding and Kerrigan were two of the best ice skaters

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Speaker 1: in the world. Tanya Harding has delivered her challenge.

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Speaker 3: Will it be enough for the national title?

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Speaker 2: You'll find out when.

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Speaker 5: We come back, as Nancy Carragrin looks on.

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Speaker 1: And they had always been pitted against each other because

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Speaker 1: Nancy Kerrigan was this kind of like sweet girl next

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Speaker 1: door and Kanye Harding had this kind of like trashy,

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Speaker 1: cheap vibe that people often commented on, which feels really

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Speaker 1: nasty in retrospect.

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Speaker 3: Tanya has a more complicated life than a lot of

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Speaker 3: these other women competing here.

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Speaker 4: I mean, she was poor, she didn't come from money.

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Speaker 4: She had a hard upbringing. She couldn't afford the fancy

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Speaker 4: literally uniforms, whereas Nancy Krigan was like this beautiful kind

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Speaker 4: of upper crust type, doesn't she look all?

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Speaker 2: She looks angel Well.

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Speaker 1: That's actually one of the interesting things about the stories.

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Speaker 1: It turns out they actually were raised in similar economic conditions.

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Speaker 1: Like Nancy wasn't from that well off of family, but

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Speaker 1: Nancy had a loving family who supported her, and Tanya's

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Speaker 1: mother was by all accounts pretty abusive to Tanya.

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Speaker 2: Her upbringing was really unstable.

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Speaker 1: But the controversy itself was that they are about to

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Speaker 1: compete against each other in the Olympics and Tanya Harding's

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Speaker 1: husband at the time orchestrates an attack on Nancy Kerrigan.

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Speaker 3: In which somebody hits her leg with a crowbar.

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Speaker 1: Correct I don't know if it was with a crowbar,

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Speaker 1: but basically she's coming off the ice where she's practicing.

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Speaker 1: There are cameras all around, and this sky comes out

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Speaker 1: of nowhere and hits her knee, trying to make it

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Speaker 1: so that she can't compete some hard art black nick.

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Speaker 1: And in the end she does compete, and she does

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Speaker 1: really well and Tanya Harding does really badly.

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Speaker 3: Nancy Kerrigan skated the performance of her life.

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Speaker 8: Gathery Devitt wound up seventh, Tanya Harding eighth.

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Speaker 1: But the intention here was to derail her career, and

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Speaker 1: because there were all these cameras around, it was captured

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Speaker 1: and so it was this really huge national story. And

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Speaker 1: then over time it came out that actually it was

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Speaker 1: Tanya Harding's husband who orchestrated this. There was some question

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Speaker 1: about whether or not on You herself had been involved

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Speaker 1: in the attack, and eventually she did plead guilty to

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Speaker 1: conspiracy to hinder prosecution for trying to cover up for him.

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Speaker 4: But to be clear, this happened in real side, Like

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Speaker 4: do you remember watching as I may?

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Speaker 3: I remember I was like so excited. I love the

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Speaker 3: ice skating in the Olympics.

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Speaker 4: I remember being with my parents and the scene of

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Speaker 4: Nancy Kerrigan in all white on the ground holding her legs,

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Speaker 4: crying and saying like my leg or.

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Speaker 3: My life is something?

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Speaker 4: Why that was played on repeat, on repeat and repeater.

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Speaker 3: It was like the cover of every sory.

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Speaker 4: I so distinctly remembered watching that and it being everywhere.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and also just the unfolding of was Tanya involved,

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Speaker 1: wasn't she like that whole kind of mystery, and then

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Speaker 1: the unpeeling of it, I think just really captured the

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Speaker 1: imagination for a long time and it became a classic

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Speaker 1: comedian narrative which as you and I know, people love,

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Speaker 1: which is it was really framed as good versus evil. Right,

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Speaker 1: Nancy was good, Tanya Harding was evil, and you know,

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Speaker 1: this effectively ended Tanya Harding's career. But then it got

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Speaker 1: a revisiting with this movie E Tanya, and it really

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Speaker 1: added more nuance to the picture. So that has changed

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Speaker 1: the way a lot of people thought about it. At

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Speaker 1: the time.

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Speaker 2: There was not a lot of nuance.

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Speaker 3: When that revisitation occurred.

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Speaker 4: One of those layers that was peeled back, like you mentioned,

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Speaker 4: is that turned out she was in this very abusive

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Speaker 4: relationship with the ex husband, Jeff Glouley, who was then

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Speaker 4: later found to have committed the crime or orchestrated the crime.

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Speaker 4: And so that too was just a complexity that was

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Speaker 4: not there in this sort of good evil narrative.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of feuds women who have been pitted against each other,

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Speaker 1: I think the next one is a suggestion that we

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Speaker 1: talk about Brandy versus Monica and The Boy's Mind. This

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Speaker 1: came in via Ayisha Johnson and also Jenna McCollum.

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Speaker 4: Okay, so I remember this so much because I loved

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Speaker 4: this song. This was like the jam of the of

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Speaker 4: nineteen ninety eight. It was a song called the Boy

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Speaker 4: Is Mine by Brandy and Monica. It was a duet

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Speaker 4: and at the time Brandy and Monica were both pretty

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Speaker 4: popular and well respected singers in their own right. They

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Speaker 4: were also notably teenagers. And yet, as often happens when

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Speaker 4: there are two women doing somewhat similar things, and like

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Speaker 4: you can't possibly have two of them, and so all

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Speaker 4: these rumors started sprouting up that they were in this feud,

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Speaker 4: and so then I just learned this.

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Speaker 3: In doing additional research.

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Speaker 4: I thought that the feud began with the song because

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Speaker 4: in the song, they're basically fighting over a boy.

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Speaker 2: Right, It's like that boy is mine.

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Speaker 4: No, he's mine, Yeah, he's mine. I'm sorry, you seem

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Speaker 4: to be confused. He belongs to me. The boy is mine,

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Speaker 4: you know, and on and on. But actually I read

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Speaker 4: that in fact, the rumors of the feud had gotten

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Speaker 4: started earlier, and so this song was originally written as

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Speaker 4: a solo song. For Brandy, but she brought in Monica

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Speaker 4: to do it a duet so they could.

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Speaker 3: Like squash their beef or their entry beef or whatever

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Speaker 3: it was.

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Speaker 1: Weren't there rumors that the feud was kind of manufactured

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Speaker 1: to get them both attention, But then eventually it became

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Speaker 1: so real that there was like an incident at the Grammys.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there was an incident took the Grammys, where like

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Speaker 4: maybe they got into a fight of some kind, And

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Speaker 4: so there was always this sense around this that was

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Speaker 4: this real? Was this manufactured by the producers? And certainly

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Speaker 4: like the tabloids who at that time were running the

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Speaker 4: world didn't seem to care.

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Speaker 3: So the feud was everywhere.

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Speaker 1: The feud was everywhere. But one of the things I

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Speaker 1: read in preparing for this was that it's kind of

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Speaker 1: an enduring mystery, right, like they've never really addressed what

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Speaker 1: caused the actual break between them, because then they really

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Speaker 1: weren't friends for a really long time. And recently they

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Speaker 1: did this versus battle in twenty twenty. They did it,

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I remember, yeah, And they said during that

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Speaker 1: that they hadn't spoken in eight years.

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Speaker 2: Believe it or not, is our first time in the

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Speaker 2: same room for hell long eight I think eight or nine.

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Speaker 2: That's long done. That's too long. It really did become

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Speaker 2: a real thing, but we still don't really know why.

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Speaker 4: So actually this is a random side but Jessica Bennett,

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Speaker 4: one of my doppelgangers, who was a writer for Vibe,

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Speaker 4: I frequently get her Google alerts, and recently one of

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Speaker 4: her Google alerts was an interview with Monica Wow, and

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Speaker 4: I was like, oh my god, thank you.

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Speaker 3: This is so useful. Anyway, funny, small world.

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Speaker 4: But in this interview with her, Monica said, I wish

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Speaker 4: people would stop putting the two of us against each

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Speaker 4: other and stop attempting to compare who sings better, who

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Speaker 4: looks better? Who I did the other one, because I

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Speaker 4: never came into the space with the spirit of competition anyway.

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Speaker 4: And I think that what we now kind of understand

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Speaker 4: is that, yeah, like they were two really different people.

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Speaker 4: Maybe they didn't totally get along, but like who cares.

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Speaker 4: Artists don't have to get along. But the fact that

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Speaker 4: they were these two young teenage black women who were

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Speaker 4: operating in the same space created this storm and probably

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Speaker 4: ultimately made that song do better.

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Speaker 3: Like that song was everywhere.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an iconic every word me too, and I

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Speaker 1: can never recite the words to songs. Like an ongoing

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Speaker 1: joke about me with my friends is that I get

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Speaker 1: every word wrong in a song, but I know all

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Speaker 1: the words so the boys.

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Speaker 4: To be clear, we had, in fact, thought about doing

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Speaker 4: a whole episode on this, but it's too expensive to license.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I will say that there's obviously still a

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Speaker 1: lot of interest in this because that Versus Battle I

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Speaker 1: mentioned six million people tuned in it.

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Speaker 4: Liah Kamala Harris, Oh my god, yes, she was on it.

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Speaker 1: She appeared on the live stream with Monica and Brandy.

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Speaker 2: I thought that was hilarious.

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Speaker 1: And I just wanted to thank you ladies, just you,

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Speaker 1: plans you stars you.

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Speaker 3: And did she like was she just a fan or

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Speaker 3: did ye?

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Speaker 1: She was encouraging people to vote, so it was a

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Speaker 1: way to get out the vote, but I think also

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Speaker 1: she is a fan.

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Speaker 3: I love that.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So there's another show that I want to talk

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Speaker 4: about that Claudia Juliana sent in and I just remember

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Speaker 4: occasionally this show would be on TV. It must have

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Speaker 4: not been on cable because we didn't have cable, and

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Speaker 4: so like when there was nothing else on, I would

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Speaker 4: watch this show and I always hated it so much.

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Speaker 4: And that show is Seventh Heaven.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Seventh Heaven, which was objectively speaking, a pretty terrible show.

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Speaker 1: When Claudia Juliana sent this in, she said that we

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Speaker 1: should talk about how nineties TV was very into life,

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Speaker 1: lesson messaging, and very Christian forward, and I think that's true.

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Speaker 1: It was really the era of after school specials and

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Speaker 1: this show, which I never watched, Touch by an Angel

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Speaker 1: was very popular. But I did watch Seventh Heaven, and

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Speaker 1: looking back on it is absolutely wild. It was about

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Speaker 1: a minister and his wife raising seven children, so it

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Speaker 1: was kind of Chris. Yeah, it was overtly Christian. There

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Speaker 1: was so much like saccharine morality. Every episode was like

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Speaker 1: someone had a secret or had done something wrong, and

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Speaker 1: then eventually it was like discovered and solved, and then

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Speaker 1: they each would get like a speech from either their

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Speaker 1: minister father or his angelic blonde wife about how to.

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Speaker 2: Do the right thing.

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Speaker 3: And this is the show that gave us Jessica Bielle.

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Speaker 1: Correct, it is the show that gave us Jessica bille

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Speaker 1: And also, unfortunately, it is the show that gave us

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Speaker 1: Stephen Collins, who played the minister Dad and turned out

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Speaker 1: to be a pedophile.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 4: Yes.

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Speaker 1: In twenty fourteen, he confessed to sexually abusing underage girls,

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Speaker 1: one of whom was ten, after audio of him talking

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Speaker 1: about it in a marriage counseling session leaked.

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Speaker 2: So he didn't even deny it.

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Speaker 1: He actually said he had sexually abused three underage girls,

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Speaker 1: but denied being a pedophile.

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Speaker 2: So not a lot of people watch the show anymore.

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Speaker 2: I think at that time it got pulled from rerams.

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Speaker 1: But I will say that seventh heeven was one of

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Speaker 1: the first major hits for the w B, which people

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Speaker 1: may not remember, but it was a teen channel that

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Speaker 1: went from nineteen ninety five to two thousand and six

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Speaker 1: when it became Dawson's Creek.

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Speaker 2: The c W. Yes, it gave us Dawson's Creek.

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Speaker 3: And probably so many other shows, right, so many other shows.

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Speaker 1: This was really like the teen cable channel, and then

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Speaker 1: it merged with another channel to become the CW and

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Speaker 1: then that became the teen channel.

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Speaker 4: Okay, And actually it's funny that you say this because

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Speaker 4: this is sort of like where we started this conversation

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Speaker 4: on my so called life, which was the kind of

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Speaker 4: anti After School teen special.

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Speaker 1: Yes, this was exactly the thing that my so called

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Speaker 1: life was trying to counter, but instead of lasting one season,

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Speaker 1: lasted many seasons, and one of the critics actually said

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Speaker 1: it was arguably one of the worst long running.

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Speaker 2: Shows on television.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because it was just like Christian propaganda essentially.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow. I should also mention here that.

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Speaker 1: There's this guy who's been watching Seventh Even and doing

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Speaker 1: recaps on TikTok that.

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Speaker 2: Are always going viral amazing and they're very funny.

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Speaker 3: Wait, do you know his name?

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Speaker 2: His name is Heartthrop So check out his tiktoks.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god. Okay, it's like heart Throb Heart, but

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Speaker 3: heart Robert.

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Speaker 6: I'm rewatching Seventh Heaven. Please just listen to the plot

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Speaker 6: this episode I just finished, where a white guy is

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Speaker 6: a victim of racism. Simon finds a homeless girl on

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Speaker 6: the street and he brings her home to keep her

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Speaker 6: is a pet. This episode with a drunk ant is

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Speaker 6: so good. Simon's friend has an older sister. Her name

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Speaker 6: is Karen, and she isn't a gang white Christian problems

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Speaker 6: of the nineties, So, you know, like.

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Speaker 1: All good things, TikTok has found a way to make

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00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,399
Speaker 1: Seventh Heaven funny. It's never intentionally funny, but it is

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Speaker 1: very funny to look back on.

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Speaker 3: I wonder has TikTok discovered my so called life yet?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but I feel like a lot of

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Speaker 1: these TikTok recaps are for shows that are ridiculous, and

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Speaker 1: I hope that they are not making fun of my

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Speaker 1: so called life.

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Speaker 3: That's true.

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Speaker 4: Although do you remember I guess I forgot like ten

410
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 4: years ago on Tumblr the clar Dance cry face was

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Speaker 4: a big meme.

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Speaker 2: Oh really, I didn't.

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Speaker 1: Know about the clar Dance cry face. I remember the

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Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian cry Yeah.

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Speaker 4: No, before Kim Kardashian to kryface, there's a very distinct

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Speaker 4: clear Dance cry face. And I think that during the

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Speaker 4: Homeland era this is going around, but it really started

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Speaker 4: with Angela Chase. Oh you're feeling interested Google that there

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00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:16,840
Speaker 4: were so many good things that people sent in. We

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Speaker 4: will probably do another episode devoted to them, but there

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Speaker 4: were a few that we felt like needed honorable mention. Yes,

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Speaker 4: so I'll start with the first one. This is from

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Speaker 4: Tara Eleene and she this was cracking me up. She

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Speaker 4: writes about the time that Tom Cruise jumped on the

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Speaker 4: couch during his interview with Oprah about how in love

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Speaker 4: he was with Katie Holmes.

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Speaker 3: I know you remember this.

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Speaker 8: I remember this, and I was watching it live, okay,

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Speaker 8: and then this idea that he kind of like paraded

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Speaker 8: her around and on People magazine and that party is

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Speaker 8: like she was aprized, this is this is words.

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Speaker 1: Well, there was also very obviously some tie to Scientology,

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Speaker 1: like yes, exactly gotten divorced from Nicole Kidman, and the

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Speaker 1: rumor was that he had essentially had Scientology audition girlfriends

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Speaker 1: for him.

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Speaker 2: So he went on.

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Speaker 1: Oprah to convince people that his love for Katie Holmes

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Speaker 1: was true. But he really overdid it and literally stood

439
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Speaker 1: up on her couch and started jumping up.

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Speaker 4: Because I was working in a newsroom then, and I

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Speaker 4: don't think I watched it live, but it was played

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Speaker 4: on repeat over and over. I mean that momentage like

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Speaker 4: Freeze screaming him.

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Speaker 3: He was so out of control, he seemed unhinged.

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Speaker 1: So it really didn't do what he was hoping, which

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Speaker 1: is quell rumors that it wasn't a real relationship. Another

447
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 1: honorable mention we have here is from someone named Clerby.

448
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,879
Speaker 1: She was listening to our hig Yales episode and it

449
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 1: made her think of the color red, the Lady in Red.

450
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,679
Speaker 1: She was curious when this color became the sexy color

451
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 1: for women, and I think that's actually a really interesting topic.

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00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 4: Also, I'm thinking of that song Red Red Wine.

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00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess there's a lot of red in

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00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:52,439
Speaker 3: a lot of places.

455
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I love Lady in Red.

456
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 3: Anyway, but yeah.

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00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:02,360
Speaker 4: Clarby notes that color theory, especially between men and women,

458
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,120
Speaker 4: could be a good topic for us, and I totally agree.

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00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: Rebecca Carroll, who's a friend of the podcast, also messaged

460
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 1: me to ask if we'd considered Blue Lagoon.

461
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:11,879
Speaker 2: And I've never seen Blue Lagoon?

462
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,399
Speaker 4: Have you? I swear that I have seen Blue Lagoon,

463
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 4: but now I can't. I'm like conflating it with all

464
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 4: of those other type of movies.

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00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 3: Hold on, can we google it?

466
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, it's I think it's vaguely pornographic.

467
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 4: Maybe it was like that Sexy water movie.

468
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 1: Sexy Water Movie is a great way to put it.

469
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 1: I think it's about two very young teenagers, like stranded

470
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 1: on an island, but there's a lot of like nudity

471
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 1: in sect.

472
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,920
Speaker 2: Imagine a boy who didn't know he had become a man.

473
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 4: My heart's beating so fast.

474
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 2: Mine too.

475
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 3: It's okay, yes's rick.

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00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's definitely a topic we should probably explore.

477
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 3: It someh Okay, this is coming back to me now.

478
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 4: And I think Brookshields has since talked about this because

479
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 4: she was so young and probably didn't have a lot

480
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,479
Speaker 4: of agency and how she was portrayed her.

481
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,880
Speaker 1: Actually, if you haven't watched the Brickshields documentary, which I

482
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 1: saw I went to the premiere of, that is a

483
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 1: great look back on her career from her perspective, and

484
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: just like how she could never win.

485
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 2: She was either always accused of.

486
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: Being too sexual or not sexual enough, and that is

487
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,640
Speaker 1: just like a wild thing where people would openly ask

488
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,199
Speaker 1: about her virginity when she would do interviews when she

489
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 1: was still a teenager. It just feels crazy to look

490
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 1: back on. So that's a recommendation if you haven't watched that.

491
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 3: And then maybe this is a good one to end on.

492
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 4: But this is our friend Rachel Sklar, who is Greece obsessed,

493
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 4: and I think we actually probably have to come back

494
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 4: to this and like do more on and maybe she

495
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 4: needs to make a guest appearance. But she talks about

496
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 4: Stephanie on the step ladder in Greece too specifically.

497
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 2: So funny.

498
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 1: I don't really remember Greece too that well. I've definitely

499
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: seen it, but I do remember Greece. I was obsessed

500
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 1: with Greece. I wasn't allowed to see it when it

501
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,679
Speaker 1: first came out because it was considered too racy for me,

502
00:23:58,440 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: so of course I just made me want to see it,

503
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:01,640
Speaker 1: and I just love this movie.

504
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 2: There's so much to mine in it.

505
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: There's like Rizzo, who is just like one of the

506
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: best characters ever, and that song she sings that there

507
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 1: are worse things she could do than go with a

508
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 1: boy or two, Oh my God. And then of course

509
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: there's the Sandra d transformation that she goes from being

510
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 1: like sort of the sweet innocent girl next door to being.

511
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:20,360
Speaker 2: Like bubba ba boom.

512
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 1: So I really feel like Greece has so many themes

513
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: we could mind.

514
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 4: I've now clicked on a link to Grease latter scene

515
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 4: on TikTok and there's like hundreds of videos with women

516
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 4: reenacting Steve Flatters stop Latters, so clearly we need to

517
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 4: refresh our memories of what this scene actually is.

518
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 1: Hilarious so I think that's enough for today, but we're

519
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: going to do more of these. We really appreciate you

520
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 1: guys sending them in. We love hearing from you. So

521
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 1: keep telling us about the moments that you think about

522
00:24:55,280 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: and that impacted you, and we'll keep sharing them.

523
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 3: Susie, I'm really excited for our next episode. Can you

524
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 3: tell us what's in store?

525
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: Yes, it's an interview with one of my personal heroes

526
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: and amazing editor, Jane Pratt, who was founder of the

527
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 1: iconic teen magazine Sassey.

528
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 5: People now talk a lot about that Kurt Cobain and

529
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 5: Courtney love cover. Yes, I remember going into my meeting

530
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 5: with the publisher and having to pitch Kurt Kobain as

531
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 5: basically I've painted him to be like one of new

532
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 5: kids on the block or Backstreet boys.

533
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 2: This is in retrospect. Thanks for listening.

534
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: Is there a pop culture moment you can't stop thinking

535
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 1: about and want us to explore in a future episode.

536
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: Email us at in retropod at gmail dot com or

537
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: find us on Instagram at in retropod.

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00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,479
Speaker 7: If you love this podcast, please rate and review us

539
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 7: on Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen. If you

540
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 7: hate it, you can post nasty comments on our Instagram,

541
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 7: which we may or may not delete.

542
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 1: You can also find us on Instagram at Jessica Bennett

543
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: and at Susie b NYC. Also check out Jessica's books

544
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: Feminist Fight Club and This Is Eighteen.

545
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 7: In Retrospect is a production of iHeart Podcasts and The Media.

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00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 7: Lauren Hanson is our supervising producer. Derek Clements is our

547
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 7: engineer and sound designer. Emily Meronoff is our producer. Sharan

548
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 7: Atia is our researcher and associate producer.

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00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: Our executive producer from the media is Cindy Levy. Our

550
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: executive producers from iHeart are Anna Stemp and Katrina Norbel.

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00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: Our artwork is from Pentagram. Our mixing engineer is Amanda

552
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: Rose Smith. Additional editing help from Mary Do. We are

553
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: your hosts Susie Bannaccarum and Jessica Bennett.

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00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 7: We're also executive producers. For even more, check out in

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00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 7: retropod dot com.

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00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 3: See you next week.