Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. To remember
Speaker 1: yesterday we were talking. You actually highlighted this uh and
Speaker 1: put it on all of our radar earlier in the morning.
Speaker 1: It was a Bloomberg Big take, and it was a
Speaker 1: story that really talked about COVID. And we're not just
Speaker 1: talking about long COVID. We're talking about three quarters of
Speaker 1: survivors of critical COVID illness developing post intensive care syndrome.
Speaker 1: It's a constellation of brain, lung and other physical problems
Speaker 1: within three months of discharge. And this was from a
Speaker 1: study that was put out in May. UH it rendered
Speaker 1: some seven fifty thousand post i c U patients worldwide
Speaker 1: at risk of cognitive dysfunction in the pandemics first year alone.
Speaker 1: It's the result of some of the treatment that people
Speaker 1: got when they went into the hospital. Uh. There are
Speaker 1: some for some long term repercussion. We're not talking mild
Speaker 1: COVID here. We're talking intubations. People who have been in
Speaker 1: the su and the like. Yeah, and it's a tough
Speaker 1: way of living for some individuals. It also puts more
Speaker 1: strain and stresses on the health care system and economy.
Speaker 1: And someone who's very aware of the stresses that are
Speaker 1: out there already when it comes to healthcare and nurses
Speaker 1: in particular is Dr Iman Abuse. She's CEO and co
Speaker 1: founder at Incredible Health. We always remind you that her
Speaker 1: company is all about connecting hospitals with nurses and other
Speaker 1: healthcare workers. She really has her finger when it comes
Speaker 1: to the health care community and nurses in particular. Dr
Speaker 1: is great to have you back with us. It's been
Speaker 1: sometime since we last connected. We always love to ask
Speaker 1: you about what you're seeing on the platform right now,
Speaker 1: what you're seeing when it comes to the nurses that
Speaker 1: you connect with hospitals around the country, because it has
Speaker 1: been a tough three years for them. Is it getting
Speaker 1: any better? Thank you so much for having me. Uh So,
Speaker 1: there's some aspects that are getting better and some that
Speaker 1: are not so. As we're going into three we're expecting
Speaker 1: continuing wage inflation among permanent nurse workers. Uh you know,
Speaker 1: and that's been you know, the wage increases have been
Speaker 1: going on for multiple years now. That's a good thing.
Speaker 1: Is that a good thing? Like playing catch up with
Speaker 1: what many would argue, Um, you know, healthcare workers, nurses
Speaker 1: in particular, being underpaid. It's it's honestly a result of
Speaker 1: just supply and demand and balances. When there's big labor shortages,
Speaker 1: then then employers have to pay more for the labor
Speaker 1: um And the other thing we're seeing as we're going
Speaker 1: into next year is just higher high vacancy rates. The
Speaker 1: US healthcare system has the highest vacancy rates in nursing
Speaker 1: than in the history of the US healthcare system. Uh
Speaker 1: and uh increasingly that we're seeing the highest turnovers ever
Speaker 1: as well. So at is the annual turnover right now,
Speaker 1: which is the highest it's ever been because of how
Speaker 1: hard the job is. Is it because they should be
Speaker 1: getting paid more? I mean, how much are they getting paid?
Speaker 1: Why are we having such a problem here? Yeah, So
Speaker 1: the big challenge is as a result of the pandemic,
Speaker 1: there aren't enough Even prior to the pandemic, there weren't
Speaker 1: enough nurses. The pandemic made that challenge even even worse.
Speaker 1: And so we're seeing very high levels of burnout and
Speaker 1: nurses leaving the profession, either choosing to retire early or
Speaker 1: leaving the profession permanent, or and there's also not enough
Speaker 1: nurses being trained either, so it's a multifaceted problem for
Speaker 1: why the turnover is so high. They are being overworked though,
Speaker 1: dr abuzaid. You know, one of the things I think
Speaker 1: about when it comes to immigration policy because I've often
Speaker 1: been in hospitals where a lot of the nursing community
Speaker 1: are immigrants, folks who have come from other countries, and
Speaker 1: I do wonder as we look at what could potentially be,
Speaker 1: you know, really life threatening shortages if we don't have
Speaker 1: the nursing community there in our health care system. You know,
Speaker 1: do we need to think about on a national level,
Speaker 1: federal level when it comes to immigration policy of allowing
Speaker 1: more in to potentially help the gaps that you are
Speaker 1: facing in your community is facing absolutely, I mean, the
Speaker 1: nursing shortage is the biggest labor shortage in the country,
Speaker 1: and of course other countries are having their own shortages
Speaker 1: as well, so it's not a full proof solution to
Speaker 1: just bring them from from outside. However, you know, we've
Speaker 1: seen record low levels of immigration into the U s
Speaker 1: since two thousand sixteen, and we certainly don't have and
Speaker 1: it's not keeping up with the demand the health care system.
Speaker 1: So what's the what are the policy choices that need
Speaker 1: that you know, policymakers need to make in order to
Speaker 1: fix this. So it's this is not a new conversation
Speaker 1: that we're having by any means, And it's like, hello,
Speaker 1: we're just not getting the message here, right, So it's
Speaker 1: gonna take multiple parties to address this. Government health care
Speaker 1: systems are educational systems, so on. So one thing I
Speaker 1: know for sure for health care systems in particular is
Speaker 1: that they are investing more and more in nurse career
Speaker 1: advancement UH and more flexible scheduling because those those two
Speaker 1: taxics in particular do encourage nurses to stay UH. And
Speaker 1: the number one reason why nurses are looking acuity job
Speaker 1: is they're looking for more career advancement. And then the
Speaker 1: second most common reason is they're looking for more work
Speaker 1: life balance and and and a more flexible schedule. So
Speaker 1: the health systems that are adapting to that are are
Speaker 1: having a stronger retention. I also do wonder about in society.
Speaker 1: I have a sister who is a nurse. I mean
Speaker 1: we're talking, you know, decades ago, who also went out
Speaker 1: to becoming an engineer. But she also then went back
Speaker 1: to nursing and got a master's. But what I'm wondering
Speaker 1: is do people not want to be nurses anymore? And
Speaker 1: how do you maybe change that? Sure? So, actually there's
Speaker 1: record levels of applicants to nursing schools, so there are
Speaker 1: there is a lot of demand from Americans who want
Speaker 1: to become nurses. Unfortunately we don't are nursing schools can't
Speaker 1: handle more capacity to train even more. Uh, they don't
Speaker 1: have enough faculty too, because the faculties, uh you know,
Speaker 1: they're losing them as well. And then there's another ball
Speaker 1: in that happening after nursing school there aren't enough training
Speaker 1: programs at hospitals and health systems across the country to
Speaker 1: train large, large and larger cohorts of nursing um. And
Speaker 1: then we also have the retirement challenge. This is an
Speaker 1: at the average age of the US nursing workforce right
Speaker 1: now is fifty two years old. Fortunately, we don't have
Speaker 1: an aging population here in the United States that will
Speaker 1: need long term care right And I'm obviously the infacetious
Speaker 1: here alert So listen, I think I have I'm hopeful
Speaker 1: for the future. I think market forces are really going
Speaker 1: to force them. Are are already forcing change and UH
Speaker 1: and and enforcing many many parties that talk to talk
Speaker 1: about that a little of forces. So we're seeing hospitals
Speaker 1: and health systems invest more in nursing career advancement, both
Speaker 1: leadership training programs, cross training programs, specialization programs. We're also
Speaker 1: seeing um more and more flexibility on their schedules in
Speaker 1: addition to adding more part time roles, more we can
Speaker 1: shift options. Just to make you know, nursing a more
Speaker 1: sustainable profession with a with a very with a very
Speaker 1: busy life and the very and the various strains of
Speaker 1: the of the job. What do nurses get paid? Uh,
Speaker 1: it varies by depending on the state, depending on the specialty.
Speaker 1: I'm in California right now, so they have the average
Speaker 1: nursing salary in California is a hundred and twenty dollars.
Speaker 1: Nationally the average is about eighty thou dollars. We're talking
Speaker 1: hard work here, though, I mean long days. UH, some
Speaker 1: flexibility when it comes to your schedule, right, but this
Speaker 1: is really tough work and that's why we see so
Speaker 1: much turnover. Absolutely, and then also you know, the pandemic
Speaker 1: didn't help with that, with the with the strain and
Speaker 1: anxiety that comes with a job too. What are you
Speaker 1: seeing are you hearing from the nursing community a kind
Speaker 1: of what's going on in hospitals? I guess what I'm
Speaker 1: asking you is we talked a lot about COVID and
Speaker 1: the impact. Um what we're seeing. Are they seeing any
Speaker 1: kind of upticks or anything new that makes you a
Speaker 1: little bit worried about what's to come? Yeah, so we
Speaker 1: are still seeing very high levels of stress and burnout. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then the other thing we're seeing those is you know,
Speaker 1: we we we have six hundred thousand nurses on our platforms.
Speaker 1: Over ten percent of the U S nursing workforce uses
Speaker 1: incredible health And we often ask why why are you
Speaker 1: leaving your job or why are you considering a new job?
Speaker 1: The number one reason why far as you're looking for
Speaker 1: career advancement. The number two is that are looking more
Speaker 1: for more flexible scheduling. Number three is are trying to
Speaker 1: relocate or reduce their communite time. And then number four
Speaker 1: is more pay. And it's in that order. And so
Speaker 1: the hospitals and health systems that are putting together strategies, tactics,
Speaker 1: programs that address those reasons are the ones that are
Speaker 1: having the most success with hiring entertaining the talent. What
Speaker 1: do they end up going and doing when nurses leave
Speaker 1: the industry. I actually don't have much, to be honest,
Speaker 1: I don't have a whole lot of data on that.
Speaker 1: I just know that in the next twelve months of
Speaker 1: nurses are considering leading the depression permanently. This just came
Speaker 1: to mind. But I've and this is just anecdotal, but
Speaker 1: I've spoken to a couple of people who are in
Speaker 1: healthcare recently. One is an acupuncturist and others a physical therapist,
Speaker 1: and both of them have told me that throughout the pandemic,
Speaker 1: what they found is they don't necessarily have the tool
Speaker 1: kits that are required to deal with what people want
Speaker 1: right now. They end up feeling like they're therapists in
Speaker 1: many cases when they're spending time with patients. Are you
Speaker 1: hearing that from nurses, UM, we are. We're also seeing
Speaker 1: nurses going to completely other industries to including technology, you know,
Speaker 1: including other types of healthcare professions. I guess what I'm
Speaker 1: saying is, like, what their training didn't set them up
Speaker 1: for the way that patients are interacting with them. UM,
Speaker 1: there's definitely more room for improvement in nurse training that
Speaker 1: that that's for sure. But that's a forever thing. That's
Speaker 1: you know, you can always get better. All Right, We're
Speaker 1: gonna leave it on that note. Listen, take care of
Speaker 1: a good holiday season and stay safe. Always fun to
Speaker 1: check in with you, Dr Iman Abuse not only fun
Speaker 1: but really informative. She's co founder in chief executive officer
Speaker 1: of Incredible Health, joining us via zoom from Austin, Texas.
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting truly. My sister, you know, years
Speaker 1: ago she had gone to college and wanted to be
Speaker 1: a nurse, and she went to a nursing like a
Speaker 1: two year nursing school program that was straight through. And
Speaker 1: it's interesting the school has it was top in the country,
Speaker 1: but it has been recently torn down as part of
Speaker 1: it as part of a hospital system. So it's interesting
Speaker 1: what she has to say about that the training facilities
Speaker 1: are not necessarily there. And then you need, you know,
Speaker 1: part of the learning experience. A big part of it
Speaker 1: was you she would work in the hospital that was
Speaker 1: connected to it, and you were working with patients and
Speaker 1: learning in real time. And if you don't have those
Speaker 1: hospital affiliations, it's just not the same thing. So who
Speaker 1: takes care of us if we can't find the nurses. Gosh,
Speaker 1: we're gonna go back to multigenerations. We're gonna need living
Speaker 1: together so that we can take care of one another.
Speaker 1: I look at you. You are so good luck finding
Speaker 1: room in my apartment.