1
00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,000
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production

2
00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:12,639
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, and welcome

3
00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:15,680
Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

4
00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:18,280
Speaker 1: So this is part two of a two parter, and

5
00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:20,799
Speaker 1: in part one we looked at the early roots of

6
00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,919
Speaker 1: commercial aviation and how airplanes went from being the latest

7
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,000
Speaker 1: invention to starting to morph into a very real industry

8
00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,080
Speaker 1: at least until World War Two kind of put a

9
00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,239
Speaker 1: damper on commercial aviation for a little while. And in

10
00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,600
Speaker 1: this episode, we're gonna go from the international agreement that

11
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:38,440
Speaker 1: took place near the end of World War Two that

12
00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,600
Speaker 1: prepared for a global airline industry all the way up

13
00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,080
Speaker 1: to the de regulation of the U S commercial aviation

14
00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,640
Speaker 1: industry in the late nineties seventies. And then there's like

15
00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:49,760
Speaker 1: a special bonus at the end. This is kind of

16
00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:53,639
Speaker 1: a double episode because we have a special guest, John Hodgeman,

17
00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,160
Speaker 1: came by the studio for a visit recently and talked

18
00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:01,320
Speaker 1: about his relationship with today's airline industry. Uh, and it

19
00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,840
Speaker 1: is very fun and silly chat. So we're going to

20
00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,119
Speaker 1: hop right into talking about how various world powers were

21
00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:09,920
Speaker 1: thinking about how to make air travel work after the

22
00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:14,560
Speaker 1: war was over. In late nineteen the Convention on International

23
00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,840
Speaker 1: Civil Aviation took place in Chicago. You'll see it referred

24
00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:22,600
Speaker 1: to colloquially as just the Chicago Convention. This convention established

25
00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,480
Speaker 1: the International Civil Aviation Organization the i c a O,

26
00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,840
Speaker 1: which is a u N branch to regulate air travel

27
00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,240
Speaker 1: at the international level. And during the Convention, the so

28
00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,080
Speaker 1: called five Freedoms of the air were developed. Per the terms,

29
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,480
Speaker 1: each of the participating nations would grant all other participating

30
00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,280
Speaker 1: nations these five freedoms. There was some exclusionary language about

31
00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,800
Speaker 1: if they had had a previous conflict before this, that

32
00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,480
Speaker 1: there could be some wiggle room in these. But these

33
00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,040
Speaker 1: are the five freedoms. To fly across its territory without landing,

34
00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:58,320
Speaker 1: to land for non traffic purposes, to put down passengers,

35
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,280
Speaker 1: mail and cargo taken on in the territory of the

36
00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:06,400
Speaker 1: country whose nationality the aircraft possesses, to take on passengers, mail,

37
00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,360
Speaker 1: and cargo destined for the territory of the country whose

38
00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:13,440
Speaker 1: nationality the aircraft possesses, to take on passengers, mail, and

39
00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,400
Speaker 1: cargo destined for the territory of another agreeing nation. And

40
00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,920
Speaker 1: to put down passengers, mail, and cargo coming from any

41
00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,840
Speaker 1: such territory. In short, it's all, hey, we're all going

42
00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:25,680
Speaker 1: to be cool with each other, flying in each other's

43
00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,840
Speaker 1: airspace and landing in each other's countries. The purpose of

44
00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,079
Speaker 1: the i c a O was also defined during the convention,

45
00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,200
Speaker 1: and it was stated as follows quote. Whereas the future

46
00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:39,080
Speaker 1: development of international civil aviation can greatly help to create

47
00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,519
Speaker 1: and preserve friendship and understanding among the nations and people's

48
00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,600
Speaker 1: of the world, yet its abuse can become a threat

49
00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,040
Speaker 1: to the general security. And whereas it is desirable to

50
00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,840
Speaker 1: avoid friction and to promote that cooperation between nations and

51
00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:56,760
Speaker 1: people's upon which the peace of the world depends. Therefore,

52
00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:01,519
Speaker 1: the undersigned Government's, having agreed on certain principles and arrangements

53
00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,320
Speaker 1: in order that international civil aviation may be developed in

54
00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,679
Speaker 1: a safe and orderly manner, and that the international air

55
00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,320
Speaker 1: transport services may be established on the basis of equality

56
00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:17,320
Speaker 1: of opportunity and operated sadly and economically, have accordingly concluded

57
00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,640
Speaker 1: this Convention to that end. It was signed on December seventh, NINO,

58
00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:23,880
Speaker 1: but the i c a OH acted as a provisional

59
00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,440
Speaker 1: agency until twenty six of the fifty two shining countries

60
00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,640
Speaker 1: had ratified it locally, and that happened on March fifth,

61
00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,560
Speaker 1: ninety seven. In the late nineteen forties and early nineteen fifties,

62
00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,440
Speaker 1: the British Overseas Airways Corporation built and introduced the world's

63
00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:43,480
Speaker 1: first commercial jet airliner that have Land commit. These jets

64
00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:47,400
Speaker 1: were beautiful and stylish, and ultimately they were disastrous. In

65
00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,360
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three and nineteen fifty four there were three

66
00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,000
Speaker 1: terrible fatal accidents when the have a land Comments broke

67
00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,800
Speaker 1: apart during their flights. All the passengers and crew died.

68
00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,560
Speaker 1: And each of these disasters there's and after the third one,

69
00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,080
Speaker 1: the comment was taken out of production and a formal

70
00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:08,640
Speaker 1: investigation was launched into the matter. You can absolutely find

71
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,279
Speaker 1: accounts of pilots and other people in the industry who

72
00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,800
Speaker 1: have remained very angry for a very long time about

73
00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,680
Speaker 1: the fact that it was not those measures were not

74
00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,279
Speaker 1: taken after the first accident, But the investigation found that

75
00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,680
Speaker 1: in each of these three cases there had been cracks

76
00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,800
Speaker 1: in the fuselage of the failed planes that was caused

77
00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,320
Speaker 1: by the pressurization cycle and a riveting system that wasn't

78
00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,040
Speaker 1: able to manage the stretching forces that were in play

79
00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,719
Speaker 1: the skins of these planes. It was just too thin

80
00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,880
Speaker 1: and the squared off corners the windows cracked when that

81
00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:46,000
Speaker 1: skin was stressed by takeoff and landing. The comets flew

82
00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,200
Speaker 1: beautifully when they initially went into active use, although there

83
00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,920
Speaker 1: are accounts from pilots who flew the comets that suggested

84
00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,320
Speaker 1: that there were a number of control problems with them

85
00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:59,159
Speaker 1: that were also a concern, at least within the pilot community.

86
00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,279
Speaker 1: But there can struction and their materials were simply not

87
00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,400
Speaker 1: adequate for ongoing use, and they were ultimately blamed for

88
00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:10,440
Speaker 1: the failures. These incidents were obviously tragic, but they also

89
00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:15,719
Speaker 1: led to significant improvements, and aircraft manufacturer companies around the world,

90
00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,000
Speaker 1: including Boeing and Douglas, made use of the findings to

91
00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:23,080
Speaker 1: improve their own designs and to safeguard against similar failures.

92
00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,680
Speaker 1: If you've ever wondered why planes all have those curved,

93
00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,880
Speaker 1: rounded edged windows, it's because of the findings that were

94
00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,720
Speaker 1: made during this investigation. Another tragedy took place in nineteen

95
00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,000
Speaker 1: fifty six that had a significant impact on commercial aviation

96
00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,479
Speaker 1: in the United States. On the morning of June, a

97
00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,240
Speaker 1: trans world Airlines flight bound for Kansas City, Missouri, left

98
00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,880
Speaker 1: Los Angeles at nine o one am after a thirty

99
00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,960
Speaker 1: one minute maintenance delay. Three minutes later, a United Airlines

100
00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:55,440
Speaker 1: flight headed to Chicago also left Los Angeles due to turbulence.

101
00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:57,920
Speaker 1: The t w A flight was granted permission to go

102
00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,680
Speaker 1: up to a higher altitude that put it at the

103
00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,920
Speaker 1: same altitude as the United flight. The United pilot wasn't

104
00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,160
Speaker 1: notified of the other plane that was near it, and

105
00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,080
Speaker 1: technology was very different at the time. Pilots had to

106
00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,480
Speaker 1: rely a lot more on visual surveillance in these circumstances,

107
00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,080
Speaker 1: and the cloud covernment that did not have nearly as

108
00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:20,760
Speaker 1: much visibility. At one am, the planes collided over the

109
00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,440
Speaker 1: Grand Canyon and all the passengers on both flights died.

110
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,680
Speaker 1: This was not the first midair collision like this. In

111
00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,520
Speaker 1: the years leading up to it, there had been more

112
00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,080
Speaker 1: than five dozen others, but this one was a lot

113
00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,200
Speaker 1: larger than any of these others. It made it painfully

114
00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,680
Speaker 1: clear that safety procedures and regulations had not kept up

115
00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,760
Speaker 1: with the rapid growth of the airline industry after World

116
00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,080
Speaker 1: War Two. Yeah and the course of just a little

117
00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,400
Speaker 1: over a decade, it had ex fitted way more than doubled,

118
00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:49,840
Speaker 1: and there were just a lot more planes in the

119
00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,440
Speaker 1: sky to be managed. And in a moment, we're going

120
00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,159
Speaker 1: to talk about the legislation that came about in response

121
00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,640
Speaker 1: to this incident and this bigger problem that it it

122
00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,359
Speaker 1: really brought into focus. But first we're gonna cause and

123
00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:10,720
Speaker 1: have a word from one of our sponsors. In nineteen

124
00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:14,920
Speaker 1: fifty eight, Oklahoma Senator A. S. Mike Monroney introduced a

125
00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,680
Speaker 1: bill that would create a Federal Aviation Agency. On August

126
00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,640
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty eight, President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed the Federal

127
00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,640
Speaker 1: Aviation Act, which created the new agency, established its purpose

128
00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,360
Speaker 1: as providing for safe and efficient airspace use, and transferred

129
00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,000
Speaker 1: the work of the Civil Aeronautics Authority over to it.

130
00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,200
Speaker 1: On November one, ninety eight, the first Federal Aviation Agency

131
00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:41,000
Speaker 1: Administrator was appointed. That was retired Air Force General Elwood

132
00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,760
Speaker 1: Pete Cassada, who took the helm of the organization as

133
00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,120
Speaker 1: outlined in the Act. The agency began its operations sixty

134
00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:52,560
Speaker 1: days after his appointment on December thirty nine. For the

135
00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,800
Speaker 1: agency's first several years, it actually had no official office

136
00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,000
Speaker 1: space set aside for it, so until it moved into

137
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,559
Speaker 1: the newly built Fed Role Office building at eight hundred

138
00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:05,640
Speaker 1: Independence Avenue in nineteen sixty three. Its staff was scattered

139
00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,640
Speaker 1: around the Washington, d c. Area, sort of piecemeal, wherever

140
00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,160
Speaker 1: they could find desk space. On May one, nineteen sixty one,

141
00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,920
Speaker 1: the first US airliner was hijacked. The National Airline flight

142
00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,520
Speaker 1: was forced to divert from its Miami It's a key

143
00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,600
Speaker 1: West route into land in Cuba. This was the first

144
00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,440
Speaker 1: of four flights diverted to Cuba over the course of

145
00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,760
Speaker 1: three months. That prompted President Kennedy to hold a press

146
00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:33,400
Speaker 1: conference announcing new air travel security measures. In his statement,

147
00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,760
Speaker 1: he said, quote, now, let me say that we have

148
00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,680
Speaker 1: ordered today on a number of our planes a border

149
00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,520
Speaker 1: patrol man who will ride on a number of our flights.

150
00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,040
Speaker 1: We're also going to insist that every airplane lock its door,

151
00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,320
Speaker 1: and that the door be strong enough to prevent entrants

152
00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,160
Speaker 1: by force, and that possession of the key be held

153
00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,920
Speaker 1: by those inside the cabins so that pressure cannot be

154
00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,520
Speaker 1: put on the members of the crew outside to have

155
00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,600
Speaker 1: the door opened. The following year, the first air marshals

156
00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,080
Speaker 1: were sworn and into service. I think there's an episode

157
00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,600
Speaker 1: of the podcast Criminal that kind of talks about this

158
00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:10,600
Speaker 1: era of airline hijackings and how there were a lot

159
00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:14,640
Speaker 1: of them. Yes, and to be clear, this was not

160
00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,040
Speaker 1: the first time that an airline was hijacked that had

161
00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,400
Speaker 1: I think the first one is in the nineteen thirties. Um,

162
00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,240
Speaker 1: but this is the first time that a US commercial

163
00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:29,160
Speaker 1: plane was hijacked, and so and several started happening very quickly.

164
00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:33,560
Speaker 1: It really did make for some fairly significant concerns. Thus

165
00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,400
Speaker 1: this determination by the president, but shifting gears. In nineteen

166
00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,160
Speaker 1: sixty six, the US Congress authorized the creation of the

167
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,680
Speaker 1: Department of Transportation, which started operations in spring of the

168
00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,880
Speaker 1: following year, and as part of this new organization, the

169
00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,880
Speaker 1: Federal Aviation Agency was rolled up under it and it

170
00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,480
Speaker 1: was renamed the Federal Aviation Administration, becoming the f a

171
00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:57,160
Speaker 1: A we know today In night The Professional Air Traffic

172
00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:01,040
Speaker 1: Controllers Organization was formed initially by New York air traffic

173
00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,719
Speaker 1: controllers who wanted to ensure that their members were represented

174
00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,640
Speaker 1: in negotiations with the f a A A. The relationship between

175
00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,040
Speaker 1: pat CO and the f a A had plenty of

176
00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,680
Speaker 1: difficulties over the years. In nineteen seventy, the union held

177
00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,439
Speaker 1: a sick out of three thousand workers, which resulted in

178
00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:21,080
Speaker 1: an increase in worker benefits, although things remained pretty strained.

179
00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,760
Speaker 1: And then, more than a decade later, in nineteen eighty one,

180
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,480
Speaker 1: after a long series of contract negotiations resulted in a standoff,

181
00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,319
Speaker 1: more than twelve thousand PATCO members went on strike, grounding

182
00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,960
Speaker 1: approximately one third of u S commercial flights. After an

183
00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,080
Speaker 1: ultimatum from President Romald Reagan to return to work, I

184
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,000
Speaker 1: think they had forty eight hours to do it, the

185
00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,280
Speaker 1: strikers refused and they were dismissed from their jobs permanently

186
00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,240
Speaker 1: by the f a A. A small fraction of those

187
00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,400
Speaker 1: people were eventually reinstated, but the drop in workforce was

188
00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,240
Speaker 1: a huge strain on air traffic control, and the f

189
00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:56,199
Speaker 1: a A and the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization folded.

190
00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,400
Speaker 1: There was no union for air traffic controllers until the

191
00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:03,040
Speaker 1: National Air Traffic Controllers Association stepped into that role in

192
00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,439
Speaker 1: seven And this, of course, is a very quick version

193
00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,439
Speaker 1: of a protracted and much more involved story that as

194
00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,080
Speaker 1: we said at the top of episode one of this

195
00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,559
Speaker 1: two parter, there are a lot of pieces in this

196
00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,440
Speaker 1: brief history that could be their own episodes and even

197
00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,560
Speaker 1: multiple episodes. This is one of them because it's a

198
00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,880
Speaker 1: fairly significant moment. Yeah, and I mean I had a

199
00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:22,800
Speaker 1: lot of effects, not just in the world of air

200
00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,960
Speaker 1: travel and air traffic control, but also in labor rights

201
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,760
Speaker 1: in general, like huge. In nineteen seventy three, the Paris

202
00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,560
Speaker 1: Air Show featured two different supersonic planes, and each of

203
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,360
Speaker 1: them vibe to become the leader in what they thought

204
00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,880
Speaker 1: was going to be the next stage of commercial aviation.

205
00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:43,679
Speaker 1: The Soviet designed Tupolev T four had already made a

206
00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,600
Speaker 1: name for itself. It had first flown on the last

207
00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,200
Speaker 1: day of nineteen sixty eight, and it had achieved the

208
00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:51,960
Speaker 1: goal of supersonic flight half a year later in the

209
00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,640
Speaker 1: summer of nineteen sixty nine. The Concorde, on the other hand,

210
00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,640
Speaker 1: had its first flight in early nineteen sixty nine. That

211
00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,920
Speaker 1: was two months after the Tu one four. Though it

212
00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,600
Speaker 1: had been showcased at an event in to Lose, France

213
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,320
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty seven, it just didn't leave the hangar

214
00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:08,800
Speaker 1: during that event. It was kind of like, look at

215
00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,360
Speaker 1: this plane. We're not flying it, but it's cool. It

216
00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,679
Speaker 1: had been developed in a partnership between British Aircraft Corporation

217
00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,680
Speaker 1: and the French firm Aerospacil. After an initial agreement to

218
00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:20,880
Speaker 1: the co development had been struck by the British and

219
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,520
Speaker 1: French governments in nineteen sixty two. Boeing had been working

220
00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,600
Speaker 1: on a supersonic plane, but it's funding was canceled by

221
00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,240
Speaker 1: the US Congress in nineteen seventy one and it never

222
00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,240
Speaker 1: made it past the design phase. At the Paris Air Show,

223
00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,679
Speaker 1: both the TU one four and the Concorde were on hand.

224
00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,680
Speaker 1: Both the planes and the rivalry between them drummed up

225
00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,800
Speaker 1: a lot of excitement at the prospect of supersonic travel,

226
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,200
Speaker 1: and so at the nineteen seventy three show the two

227
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,560
Speaker 1: competitors were once again on hand. The Concords demonstration flight

228
00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,360
Speaker 1: was solid and uneventful. It went perfectly, but the t

229
00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,640
Speaker 1: U one forty four, which had a much more grandiose

230
00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,480
Speaker 1: and ambitious show featuring flight tricks, broke apart in mid

231
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,200
Speaker 1: air and it crashed into a nearby village, killing eight

232
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,360
Speaker 1: people on the ground as well as six crew. While

233
00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,520
Speaker 1: the Soviet craft did continue development, the tragedy at the

234
00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:11,840
Speaker 1: Paris Air Show really set it back too far to

235
00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,559
Speaker 1: compete with the Concorde. Three years Later, in ninety six,

236
00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,679
Speaker 1: the Concorde began carrying passengers on supersonic flights. They ran

237
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,400
Speaker 1: at an altitude of sixty thou feet and could make

238
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,320
Speaker 1: the Atlantic crossing in three hours. You could also apparently

239
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,160
Speaker 1: see the curvature of the Earth when you looked out

240
00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,680
Speaker 1: the window. While the Concorde was a massive step forward

241
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,800
Speaker 1: technologically in the field of air travel, you'll notice they

242
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:38,840
Speaker 1: are not running today. There aren't really any supersonic passenger jets.

243
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,280
Speaker 1: Concerns about the noise limited the Concords flight patterns. The

244
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,760
Speaker 1: mid seventies oil crisis also caused most of the orders

245
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,679
Speaker 1: for jets to be canceled. They ran exclusively as parts

246
00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,480
Speaker 1: of British Airways and Air France fleets. The tickets were

247
00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,600
Speaker 1: also expensive, and then in July of two thousand and

248
00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,800
Speaker 1: Air France Concorde flight had a catast offic failure just

249
00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,160
Speaker 1: after takeoff when a blown tire caused the fuel tank

250
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,640
Speaker 1: to rupture and the plane was consumed by fire. The

251
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,760
Speaker 1: hundred and thirteen people died. All the remaining Concord jets

252
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,440
Speaker 1: were refitted with new fuel tanks, but in two thousand three,

253
00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:18,120
Speaker 1: the last Concord flight took off from JFK International Airport

254
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,200
Speaker 1: in New York and landed in London. There is another

255
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,800
Speaker 1: company developing a supersonic jet right now called Boom, which

256
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,760
Speaker 1: is apparently on track, but I don't know how they

257
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,280
Speaker 1: will manage things like price point Um. Yeah, Concorde was

258
00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:36,440
Speaker 1: definitely the airline of the Richard. Yeah. I also imagine, like,

259
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,480
Speaker 1: given how much discussion there has been, especially recently about

260
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,440
Speaker 1: how much of a contributor to UH like global warming,

261
00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,400
Speaker 1: air travel industry in general is. I imagine it would

262
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,760
Speaker 1: be really hard to get funding for something that would

263
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:55,640
Speaker 1: allow more flights to happen more often, faster, Because if

264
00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:57,880
Speaker 1: you can make that trans atlantic flight in three hours,

265
00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:59,880
Speaker 1: probably the airline is not going to be like, okay,

266
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,760
Speaker 1: will take the next four hours off, Like they're probably

267
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:04,640
Speaker 1: gonna want to load it up with people again and

268
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,400
Speaker 1: fly it more. I don't know, because I don't know

269
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 1: if there will be enough people that can afford to

270
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,280
Speaker 1: be doing that. That's also a point. It's a I

271
00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,800
Speaker 1: don't I would not feign to have a firm grasp

272
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,400
Speaker 1: of their business plan, but there has been in development.

273
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,760
Speaker 1: We'll see if it um succeeds where Concord I mean

274
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,920
Speaker 1: Concord ran for a while, but ultimately, for all those

275
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,920
Speaker 1: reasons we mentioned, uh, it just could not sustain itself.

276
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,120
Speaker 1: But as the nineteen seventies stretched on, air travel in

277
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,239
Speaker 1: the US was governed by what had become an inflexible

278
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:38,440
Speaker 1: system that had a lot of problems. Air travel remained costly.

279
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:40,560
Speaker 1: It was something out of reach of the average person

280
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:42,800
Speaker 1: for a lot of people that still is. This was

281
00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,920
Speaker 1: also a very costly time in the United States in

282
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,640
Speaker 1: the wake of the oil crisis, so even the existing

283
00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,360
Speaker 1: passenger base, like the people that could afford air travel,

284
00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:53,600
Speaker 1: that they shrank because money got a lot tighter for

285
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,160
Speaker 1: a lot of people. The various regulations that have been

286
00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,880
Speaker 1: put in place by the federal government could sometimes be

287
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,480
Speaker 1: at odds with the efficiency of the airlines, and those

288
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,880
Speaker 1: costly fares that we mentioned were regulated by the government,

289
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,320
Speaker 1: so airlines had to compete for their customers based on

290
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,800
Speaker 1: service alone, but they were thus guaranteed a certain return

291
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,960
Speaker 1: on every flight. There was also this huge burden on

292
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,880
Speaker 1: the government on keeping the Civil Aeronautics Board in charge

293
00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,640
Speaker 1: of regulating the air roots and fares in the industry,

294
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,080
Speaker 1: and that agency had grown really inefficient at managing all

295
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,240
Speaker 1: of it as the industry had grown. There are a

296
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,960
Speaker 1: lot of um reports that you'll read of airlines submitting

297
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,440
Speaker 1: proposed roots, like saying, hey, we want to run from uh,

298
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,320
Speaker 1: you know, Chicago to San Diego, and here's the route

299
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,600
Speaker 1: that we propose, and then it would sit somewhere in

300
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,920
Speaker 1: the system, uh for like six years, and then the

301
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,240
Speaker 1: government come back and be like, oh, this is kind

302
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,360
Speaker 1: of a stale idea. Now we don't you need to resubmit,

303
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:55,600
Speaker 1: and like those problems we're happening a lot. As Congress

304
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,560
Speaker 1: started to examine this issue, economist Alfred E. Kahn, who

305
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,640
Speaker 1: also served as the chairman of the Civil Aeronautics Board,

306
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,600
Speaker 1: championed deregulation as the solution to the problem. Cohn promoted

307
00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,560
Speaker 1: the idea of flexible pricing and air travel as something

308
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:14,280
Speaker 1: that would benefit both the consumer and the airlines, and

309
00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:18,080
Speaker 1: thanks to CON's work to promote deregulation, the Airline Deregulation

310
00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,680
Speaker 1: Act was introduced by Nevada Senator Howard Cannon on February six.

311
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 1: It was signed into law by President Jimmy Carter on

312
00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,280
Speaker 1: October twenty of that year. It's full title was an

313
00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,600
Speaker 1: Act to amend the Federal Aviation Act of nine to encourage,

314
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,040
Speaker 1: develop and attain an air transportation system which relies on

315
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:41,240
Speaker 1: competitive market forces to determine the quality, variety, and price

316
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:45,560
Speaker 1: of air services and for other purposes. As for the airlines,

317
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,200
Speaker 1: this was not a welcome event. A lot of them

318
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,320
Speaker 1: had lobbied against the Act while it was under consideration

319
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,520
Speaker 1: and the hopes that it would not be made into law.

320
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:58,199
Speaker 1: There were very real concerns that deregulation would destabilize the

321
00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:00,960
Speaker 1: entire industry and put some company needs out of business,

322
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:06,360
Speaker 1: and that did happen. Airlines including PanAm Eastern and brandof International,

323
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,520
Speaker 1: among others, went under after this. Yeah, it's such a

324
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:11,440
Speaker 1: huge shift, and there were a lot there are a

325
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,040
Speaker 1: lot of articles at the time talking about how airlines

326
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,919
Speaker 1: had to completely shift their business model because, as we mentioned,

327
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,680
Speaker 1: they were up to that point competing on the basis

328
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,840
Speaker 1: of service and so suddenly to have to shift from

329
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,679
Speaker 1: we offer you everything too, we offer you cheaper fares

330
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,600
Speaker 1: a very difficult thing to do. And on on the

331
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,520
Speaker 1: internal end, like that's a big budget shift to make

332
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,880
Speaker 1: in how you run everything, going from like oh, we're

333
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,199
Speaker 1: going to serve you beautiful meals on fine China, and

334
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,840
Speaker 1: that will be what sets us apart too. No more

335
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,359
Speaker 1: fine China. We can't afford that. But people still wanted

336
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,520
Speaker 1: to fly those airlines and get what they thought were

337
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,359
Speaker 1: those airline experiences, so it was a real problem. In

338
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,760
Speaker 1: the years after the de Regulation Act, a number of

339
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,320
Speaker 1: aspects of the commercial aviation industry solidified. So the hub

340
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,639
Speaker 1: and spoken at work that probably most of us are

341
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,320
Speaker 1: familiar with became the standard, with airlines concentrating on certain

342
00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,640
Speaker 1: cities as their main basis of operations. The hubs with

343
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,720
Speaker 1: airports that flights are routed through, and then the spokes

344
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:14,879
Speaker 1: are the routes that run out of that airport to

345
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,639
Speaker 1: smaller airports, and this idea became the standard business model

346
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,440
Speaker 1: for a lot of airlines. By the nineteen nineties, low

347
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,640
Speaker 1: cost carriers also emerged in the market, offering paired down

348
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,639
Speaker 1: services for much lower fees. And the big consequence of

349
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,239
Speaker 1: all of this is that more people started flying and

350
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,119
Speaker 1: more often. It really speaks to that statistic you mentioned

351
00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:38,800
Speaker 1: earlier that proportionally more people in the US fly regularly

352
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 1: than in other places. While deregulation of the airline industry

353
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,000
Speaker 1: continues to have its merits and its issues debated by

354
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:51,880
Speaker 1: industry insiders and economists, and also travel writers. Con defended

355
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 1: deregulation for decades. In an article that he wrote in

356
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,359
Speaker 1: the nineties, he said, quote, the United States Airline Deregulation

357
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,080
Speaker 1: Act of nineteen eight was the raumatic event in the

358
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,040
Speaker 1: history of economic policy. It was the first thorough dismantling

359
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,480
Speaker 1: of a comprehensive system of government control since the Supreme

360
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:13,399
Speaker 1: Court declared the National Recovery Act unconstitutional in n It

361
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,439
Speaker 1: also was part of a broader movement that, with varying

362
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:21,760
Speaker 1: degrees of thoroughness, transformed such industries as trucking, railroads, buses,

363
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 1: cable television, stock exchange, brokerage, oil and gas, telecommunications, financial markets,

364
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,439
Speaker 1: and even local electric and gas utilities. You could have

365
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 1: a million conversations going on for years about the pros

366
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,920
Speaker 1: and cons of deregulations of all those things that I

367
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 1: just read. Yes, And to be clear, a lot of

368
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 1: what led to deregulation was they had essentially just watched

369
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:50,639
Speaker 1: the railroad industry really really kind of fall apart in

370
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,760
Speaker 1: some ways because of regulations, and that's why they were like,

371
00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 1: we don't want the same thing to happen to the

372
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,200
Speaker 1: airline industry. So that was another another factor that led

373
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,240
Speaker 1: Congress down this path. But this leads us to our

374
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,440
Speaker 1: special guest for this episode, John Hodgeman. Uh. John's new book,

375
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 1: Medallion Status, is about, among other things, his relationship with

376
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,159
Speaker 1: airline loyalty programs, and that is something that arose in

377
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 1: the immediate wake of deregulation, as airlines all trying to

378
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,680
Speaker 1: find new ways to compete. We also have a weird,

379
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 1: a weird tradition almost in our workplace of if I

380
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 1: am on vacation, John Hodgeman, John Hodgman shows up. Uh.

381
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 1: This is less of a hard history segment than we

382
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 1: would normally have, but John is a delight Even though

383
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 1: I'm never in the office when he is, I can

384
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 1: attest to this fact and to keep it at least

385
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,399
Speaker 1: history oriented. In the beginning, Holly made John answer some

386
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 1: trivia questions about the history of airline loyalty programs. Yes. So, uh,

387
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 1: But before we get to my chat with John, We're

388
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 1: going to take a quick sponsor break, and then when

389
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 1: we come back, we will have the delightful and charming

390
00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:08,679
Speaker 1: John Hodgeman. So now that I'm thinking about the airline

391
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,360
Speaker 1: industry's history, particularly as it pertains to loyalty programs. We

392
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 1: have a guest who is the absolute perfect person at

393
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,640
Speaker 1: this time, John Hodgeman, who has a new book out

394
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,400
Speaker 1: called Medallion Status. Yeah, Medallion Status is my new book

395
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: of stories, uh, following Vacation Land, which was a lot

396
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: of stories about vacation. This is a book about work.

397
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,919
Speaker 1: All the weird, oddball jobs but I've had in my

398
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 1: life since I was thirteen, the traffic counting, the cheesemonging,

399
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 1: literary agent ing, and probably the oddest of all and

400
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 1: most inexplicable, is the period of time I spent on

401
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 1: camera as a famous minor television personality. And it's a

402
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 1: book about losing that job, losing all my TV jobs,

403
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 1: and feeling very panicky about my status as white men

404
00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:00,959
Speaker 1: often do, shooting, and just chasing a new kind of

405
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 1: status which was specifically to make up for the loss

406
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 1: of my TV fame, specifically chasing diamond medallion status on

407
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 1: Delta's Frequent Flyer program. Although you do not name Delta

408
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: in the no, my book is not an advertisement for Delta,

409
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 1: so I refer to it as my beloved Airlines. So

410
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 1: although anybody who flies Delta would recognize all the terminology

411
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 1: used immediately. It's all part of the sick video game,

412
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: sick addictive video game, which is the sky Miles program.

413
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 1: Is I understand. I play that game regularly, So it

414
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: seems like a good point to kind of use you

415
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 1: as a jumping board to talk about some of the

416
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: history of this, some of your history specifically with loyalty programs,

417
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: because it's quite funny. So first, I'm going to ask you.

418
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 1: And there are no prizes, neither are their penalty, So

419
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: why am I doing it? If any of these are

420
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 1: stuff I'm not gonna If I'm not going to upgrade

421
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: my status, You're gonna learn at the end of it.

422
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 1: I'll give you like a gold Star of Learning. Yeah, okay,

423
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 1: that's that's good. First only child, That's all I want

424
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 1: is validation that I did the work. Uh, John Hodgman,

425
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 1: what year was the Airline Deregulation Act passed? I'm gonna

426
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: give you choices A nineteen sixty nine, B ninety five,

427
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: C ninety eight or D night. I think that it is.

428
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: You are two years too late. Yeah, because they were

429
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 1: trying to address the fact that more global I got

430
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 1: it wrong. I have to leave no medallion status going

431
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 1: to revoke it. They're going to bump you down to silver. Yeah,

432
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 1: and so it's no surprise that after deregulation is immediately

433
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: when these airline rewards programs started popping up, literally a

434
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: year later. A small carrier, Texas International Airline started offering

435
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: a miles program in ninety nine, and then right on

436
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 1: its heels, there were larger airlines that, of course, we're like, yes,

437
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: we need to stay competitive, so they started offering their

438
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,679
Speaker 1: own loyalty programs. Which of these three large airlines offered

439
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 1: the first loyalty program? Was it American United or Delta?

440
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: You know, I'm a Delta person. I know you are,

441
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: but I don't think they started this, And I have

442
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 1: a feeling was America. You are correct, it's American. It's

443
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 1: their advantage. I was gonna say, I never know if

444
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: I could should call it a advantage or advantage, but

445
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: that is the oldest airline loyalty program still running. Really yeah,

446
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: because they started there's an eighty one. I was Platinum

447
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 1: Elite Plus there for a brief time. Ye fancy fancy Unicorn. Again,

448
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: as with all of these things, mostly it's just like

449
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 1: a card you have or a logo on your app

450
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 1: and you don't know if it's any difference at all

451
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: except you got it and someone else that doesn't have it. Yeah,

452
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 1: Next and last question of little importance, although historically interesting

453
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 1: and people love the trivia around this particular airline. Okay,

454
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 1: what was the name of Panama's loyalty program? Was it

455
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 1: a air pass? Be sky pass or see world Pass.

456
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say world Pass. You're correct, see two out

457
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: of three? You're fine. If you if you were a

458
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 1: baseball player, you'd be miraculous that average. It would be

459
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: a miracle of play baseball. Uh. And then of course

460
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: when they folded, And there's many moving parts to what

461
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: happened with the end of Panama, but their um, their program,

462
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: people that were holding those miles went into built this program.

463
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: Oh interesting, So they didn't they didn't lose them all.

464
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 1: I knew that it had to be PanAm because I

465
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: knew you were talking about PanAm When you talked about

466
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: people were interested because people are fetishistic about the history

467
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: of Panama. There's there's Pam's design, history of Panama. It's

468
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: a lot there. We um. My husband's parents lived next

469
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 1: to someone that used to work in the travel industry,

470
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 1: and so we have a bunch of vintage PanAm posters.

471
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 1: And you would think that we are magical and cool

472
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 1: with these hanging in our lounge, but really we just

473
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 1: kind of inherited them. We're not, as I feel guilty

474
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: and cool PanAm people that would probably like really love

475
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 1: to have them. And one day I'll find one of

476
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: those people and have a magnanimous gesture. But or you

477
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 1: can just sell them, fleece them, Fleece those nerds a

478
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: world nerds' not a fleecers. See. I knew that Panama's

479
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 1: PanAm first of all, I knew in its history emphasized

480
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: its international travel, and of course at John F. Kennedy,

481
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: PanAm opened the world Port, which is their super fancy

482
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: jet age jetson's looking home terminal that featured it looked

483
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: like a giant mushroom. And it's because the central the

484
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 1: central terminal was was a McCall. It a cylinder and

485
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 1: on top of this big overhang so that jets could

486
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 1: pull up to the terminal and you could walk out

487
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 1: to the jet without getting wet. But then almost immediately

488
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: after they created this, they started using larger jets. They

489
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: couldn't go up to the terminal, of course, And I

490
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: only knew about it because I became a Delta terminal

491
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: and I flew out of the World Port about a

492
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: year before it was finally demolished. And is it because

493
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: you had been mayor? They said, that's it. We're just

494
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: waiting for Hodgmen to go through. Then we can start

495
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: taking this thing apart, brick by brick, And it had

496
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: fallen into profound disrepair because they had no interest in

497
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: repairing it. And it's historically, i mean architecturally beautiful and

498
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: of its time, but in impractical as a terminal. And

499
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: by the time this was I must have been because

500
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: they only recently got rid of it. And you know

501
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: at the same time that they're lovingly renovating the t

502
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: w A terminal over by Jet Blue, the euro Sarin

503
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: and E t w A terminal which is now an hotel. Uh.

504
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: They were just letting this piece of pop art crumble.

505
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: And there were birds, colonies of birds living inside and

506
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,719
Speaker 1: water dripping everywhere. It's like you were walking through an

507
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: abandoned tropical temple. It was like a Disneyland set, frankly,

508
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: and they had big, huge, like orange translucent garbage bags

509
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: to collect leak water with these valves and plastic pipes

510
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: siphoning the water away. It was like a set from

511
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: the movie Brazil that is a little post apocalyptic. Yea,

512
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: it was very It was really intense, and it was

513
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: the final The once glorious Joel and the PanAm Crown

514
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: had now been totally tarnished and crushed and crumbled, and

515
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: it was sad to be a part of World Pass. Uh.

516
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: So you've already told us some of your travel history,

517
00:29:54,920 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: but you named your book after you're medallion status. I

518
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: used two words redallion and status go together. Will you

519
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: just give us a little bit of your history as

520
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: it relates to like your personal history of flying in

521
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: particularly becoming And I say this with absolutely no shame

522
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: an addict to this kind of system, because we all

523
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: get in it. It's design. I mean, it's designed. It's

524
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: it's it's gamifying consumer completely, and I mean obviously it

525
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: goes back hall all the way to a time before

526
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: there were video games. Honestly, do you know what I mean?

527
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: So it's the it's the original, it's the original in

528
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: f purchase kind of like commercial mind control. So you know,

529
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: I I my name is John Hodgman. I'm a writer, comedian, actor.

530
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: I used to be on the Daily Show with John Stewart.

531
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: When John Stewart was on the show. What was that

532
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: The Daily Show was a daily comedy show, and that

533
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: opened the door to a very impractic, as I say,

534
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: implausible career on camera. And I got to do some

535
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: acting work. And I still do still do a little bit,

536
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: but but less than ever before. But there was a

537
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: period between twenty and twenty uh sixteen or so when

538
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: I was traveling a lot by air, partly as a

539
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: touring comedian and storyteller and partly as a being flown

540
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: across the country back and forth all the time for

541
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: a small role on an f X cable comedy show

542
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: called Marriage That Doesn't Exist Anymore. And I was on

543
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: this show. I was I was the third best friend

544
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: of the leading friend. I wasn't like even the vice

545
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: best friend. I was like the president pro tempore his friend. Yeah,

546
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: in case the in case the other two best friends disappeared,

547
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: I would I would get to be this guy's best friend.

548
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: And by contract as a guest star, they had to

549
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: pay for my flights, and they had and they were

550
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: contractedly opplicated to fly me first class, and I was

551
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: going back and forth on Delta. Arbitrarily. I had not.

552
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: I had never wandered. I had been in a in

553
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: a program, and I had been an advantage account. I

554
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: still do advantage, but I had never chosen any of

555
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: these walled gardens to get trapped in. But it just

556
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: happened to be Delta, and it just happened to be

557
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: that I was lying back and forth so fast that

558
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: I was racking up all these regular miles and also

559
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: all these medallion qualifying miles. And this is where the

560
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: gaming really gets hot, because you can earn miles. Now,

561
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: you earn miles on anything, credit card purchases, whatever it is.

562
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: These so called miles, these reward points that you can

563
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: then trade in for like a thousand miles to a dollar. Right,

564
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: you can buy half of a one way flight to

565
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: Toledo with miles, or you can trade all your miles

566
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: in instead and buy a single French fry delivered to

567
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: your door on seamless or grubbub or whatever. Like. It's

568
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: not an efficient way to buy things, you know I did.

569
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: I'll tell you one thing, though, I racked up so

570
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: many it's a different loyalty program, but so many Amex

571
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: Rewards points that I was able to buy my son

572
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: the Stranger Things Lego Set, which is an incredible Lego

573
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful set, and I am not surprised that

574
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: you you're a bit of a Lego head. Your go ahead,

575
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: you know what I'm talking about. And I don't know

576
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: what they were charging for it when it was released,

577
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: but it very quickly became highly sought after and hard

578
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: to get. So it was at Lego Set and I

579
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: was like, I can't pay three fifty dollars for a

580
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: Lego set, even though it would be so fun to

581
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: work on this with my son. But then I realized

582
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: I could cash in all of my Amex Rewards points

583
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: and there were a lot of them. Do you know

584
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: what I mean. That's a lot of points because I

585
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: have an Amex Delta, So I understand I'm double gamed

586
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: in Delta Reserve. I'm just a regular. Oh no, no, no, no,

587
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: you gotta upgrade, upgrade the Delta Reserve. I don't have to. Well,

588
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: I don't even know who I'm talking to you right now,

589
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: because I have Delta Reserve, right that's and we'll go

590
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: that come back when you get some fancy fants lady.

591
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: So I didn't care about any of this stuff, but

592
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: that's for me, a nice use of using points like

593
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: something you would never want to pay cash for it

594
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,959
Speaker 1: a splurge item that you can Then I was also

595
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,879
Speaker 1: getting these medallion qualifying miles m q m s, as

596
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: they say in the game. And these are the miles

597
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,359
Speaker 1: that you accrue there are portioned differently, not just two

598
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,879
Speaker 1: miles travel, because it's not a one to one, because

599
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: if you're uh, if you're traveling first class, you will

600
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: earn more medallion qualifying miles on the same flight than

601
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: if you're flying coach or you know, whatever they call

602
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: premium economy or whatever. And these are the ones that

603
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: determine what your status is as a flyer. And you

604
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 1: start at zero, you earn a certain number of m

605
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: q m s, and you lock in silver medallion, then

606
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: gold medallion, than platinum medallion, and then well, i'll tell

607
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: you about the next thing. I pretty quickly made it

608
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: to gold without even noticing, just because I was flying

609
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: so much. The only way I found out was that

610
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 1: I was going on a flight home and the person

611
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: as I was checking in, the woman at the gate

612
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: who scanned my bar coach. She's looked and she said,

613
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: thank you Mr Hodgman for being gold. And it was

614
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: the greatest thing that ever happened in my life, like

615
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: a magical dopamine hit. It was so so I mean,

616
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's one thing, you know, for someone

617
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: from an airline to treat you like a human being

618
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: and simply say thank you, and then for them to

619
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: know your name, now you feel famous, and then to

620
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: say thank you for being gold. I mean, if you're

621
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: an only child as I am, and totally reliant upon

622
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: praise and acknowledgement as if it were oxygen, do you

623
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like being were thanked for being

624
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: gold was a very powerful bad feedback for me. It's like,

625
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: and you know, everyone think, you know, it's like one

626
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: of the things I talked about in my book is

627
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 1: I'm not recognized that much anymore, and yet when I am,

628
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: it's still wonderful. Because even even if it is, as

629
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: in the beginning of the book, this young couple that

630
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: approach me in our you know, in our town that

631
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: we that we spend part of the year and in

632
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: coastal Maine, and they're like, hey, it's John Hodgeman, and

633
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: I'm having a fight with my wife because we're both

634
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: freaking out over the fact that our our jeep dropped

635
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: its heater core and that and the passenger footwell is

636
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: filling up with engine coolant but we don't know what

637
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: engine coolant is, and it just looks like our cheapest

638
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: bleeding to death. And all of a sudden, these nice

639
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,800
Speaker 1: people come and they go, hey, it's John Hodgman, and

640
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is the worst time. I'm sorry that

641
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,280
Speaker 1: you just saw me yelling at my wife, But okay,

642
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get it together and be nice because it's

643
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 1: a gift. It's a gift to be seen. It's a

644
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: gift to be recognized. Most people on Earth aren't seen

645
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,959
Speaker 1: or recognized even by their members of their own family. Really,

646
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: do you know, Like for someone to express interest in you,

647
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 1: it's wonderful and it's not something you expect when you're

648
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 1: boarding a plane to Minneapolis or to go home to

649
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 1: brooke it or whatever. So to be seen, say thank you,

650
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: John Hodgment for being gold even though it's this arbitrary,

651
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: dumb tattoo that this company has put on you. It

652
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: feels like people feel like, you know, everyone goes through life,

653
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: so like I think I'm gold. I think I'm gold,

654
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 1: but no one sees that I'm gold. Actually, I'm not

655
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: sure that I'm gold. I'm worried I'm not gold. I'm

656
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: worried that I've been tricking myself into being you know,

657
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,879
Speaker 1: into gold, gold imposter. I'm worried. I'm worried that I've

658
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 1: I've been tricking everyone into thinking that I have value.

659
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: But I'm not sure that I have value. But all

660
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: of a sudden, there's a stranger in a in a

661
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 1: patterned vest saying thank you for being gold. It was

662
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,439
Speaker 1: a really powerful feeling. And all of this, I mean,

663
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: I think that what started for airlines as a simple

664
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: like they needed a way to retain customers because suddenly

665
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: it was much more competitive in the marketplace. It was

666
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: a loyalty rewards program literally. But but I think for

667
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 1: people that I've talked to who get deep into the

668
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: into the medallion status game, it's really hard not to

669
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: take it personally. It's really hard not to take it personally,

670
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: like to have it feel like there is some special

671
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: validation to being Platinum medallion, for example, is a step

672
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 1: above gold, yeah, which I really, um am eager to

673
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: get too soon for an aesthetic, weird reason, which is

674
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: what when you're gold status, your boarding pass on your

675
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 1: phone has the ugliest background color of all and I'm

676
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 1: only like two flights away from getting rid of that.

677
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 1: You're going to hit platinum. Yes, it's very exciting. There's

678
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: a little ceremony. I don't want to spoil it for you.

679
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 1: I'm just ready to not look at that particular shade

680
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: of like rust brown anymore. Well, because it's reminding you

681
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: you're not platinum. I didn't mind when I was just

682
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,479
Speaker 1: silver because it was that pretty gray with a little

683
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: sheen to it. It's the color, it's really it's aesthetic

684
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: for me over as a garbage medallion. And I don't

685
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:07,240
Speaker 1: want to talk about it anymore. And then after traveling

686
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: for a while, my TV show was canceled, and that

687
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 1: was good news ultimately, because this travel was really the

688
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 1: amount of travel I was doing was really hurting my family.

689
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: My my children had grown to an age without my watching,

690
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: without my noticing, they had grown up to an age

691
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 1: where they actually cared about me. Mostly they like, they're

692
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: always fond of me, and I have them. Do you

693
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: know what I mean, but I had been traveling and

694
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: touring and you know, taking chunks of time to be

695
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: away from my family for all of their growing up.

696
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: And when they're when kids are young, they're resilient to that.

697
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: But my son had grown up to a point early,

698
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: you know, preteens. My daughter was the very early teens,

699
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: and they were noticing I was gone, and it was hard.

700
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: It was hard for me too, because I was starting

701
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: to appreciate they were going to disappear for real, not actually,

702
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: but to grow up and go away soon. Right. So,

703
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: even though it was hard for that job to end,

704
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: and it was the first time that I had no

705
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: jobs on television and that was scary, I was glad

706
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 1: to be home. And then I got an email from

707
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: Delta saying, you have been traveling lately. We just want

708
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: to remind you you're only seven thousand m q ms

709
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: away from making Diamond. I'm like, wh whoa diamond medallion?

710
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 1: But not like such a dealer move. I'm like, I

711
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 1: can't I have to get to Diamond, Like what does

712
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: it offer? What advantages? Does it offer? Very minimal, very

713
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,919
Speaker 1: few perks? I mean, I guess you'd get to board

714
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: the plane first and sit in the pilot's lap. I

715
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: don't know, something like that. He feeds you candy and

716
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 1: it doesn't do anything. They hug you into your nap.

717
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: None of that. None of that. I mean you. You

718
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: are ostensibly on a on a priority list for complimentary upgrades,

719
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: but those never seemed to happen to me any way.

720
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,720
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I don't know why. Very rarely,

721
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: and then you get some other little perks, but mostly

722
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: it was there is an imaginary medallion that someone has

723
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 1: that I don't, and I want it, and this is

724
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: my last chance to get it too, because my show

725
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: has been canceled, and if I don't make the way

726
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: these things work, and this is why it's so insidious,

727
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: is you log up your m q ms per year

728
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: and that locks in your medallion status for the for

729
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 1: the following year. So I knew that I was locked

730
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:33,240
Speaker 1: in for platinum for next year. But if I didn't

731
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: make Diamond now at the end of the year, all

732
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 1: my mp ms would zero out. I had to start

733
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: building them up again. I would stay platinum, but gradually,

734
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: because I wouldn't be traveling as much, even though it's

735
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 1: better for my family. I would be home with my children,

736
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: and my children would be watching me as I dwindled

737
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:55,399
Speaker 1: from platinum to gold, to silver and to nothing more.

738
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: Children to see that forward in group main three exactly,

739
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: and you know what happens. What I learned over the

740
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 1: course of this experience with fame, which is a very

741
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: weird kind of status. It's very specific, but it's also

742
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 1: a pretty a pretty good indicator of what all status is,

743
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 1: what all privileges like. It's often just arbitrary, right, I mean,

744
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: when you get famous for something, all of a sudden

745
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: people want to give you stuff for free, and you

746
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 1: get invited gifted gifting lounges at the Emmys, and you

747
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 1: get free jeans and free shoes, and John Lithogo is

748
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: there and wearing free jeans and free jeans and free shoes,

749
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: and he says it's John Hodgman. I mean, it's a

750
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: very specific memory from my life. But when you get

751
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 1: stuff for free, whether it's because by free I mean

752
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: without payment, or maybe just more easily without others, more

753
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: easily than others, do do you know what I mean? So,

754
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: whether you get stuff for free because you've been on

755
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: TV or you're born in America as a as a

756
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: straight white male, right, you know, as John Scalzy would say,

757
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: playing life on the easy on the easy mode. You

758
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: know what, when you don't have to be afraid, statistically speaking,

759
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 1: you don't think that you might be under threat every

760
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: time you walk into a room because of how you

761
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: look or who you are. Uh, you you can't, Hey,

762
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 1: you don't. You don't you stop noticing that you're getting

763
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: this stuff for free, stopping thankful for it and because

764
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: it's just happening to you, because right you have to

765
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,840
Speaker 1: convince yourself that you've earned it, you know, and sitting

766
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: in first class the first time you ever get bumped

767
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 1: up to first class. It's almost always accidental, you know,

768
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: like you get bumped up or there is a mistake

769
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: or someone is paying for you and you get to

770
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 1: be in first class. You didn't buy that ticket necessarily,

771
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: very rarely, and you sit there in first class and

772
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: you're like, this is the most insanely happy thing to

773
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: ever happen to me. Look at this. I get a

774
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: sleep mask. Look I they're treating me like a human being.

775
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: I get this jar of brazil nuts that's been warmed

776
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 1: in a microwave for free. Like I'm so lucky in

777
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 1: the world, and then by the time you're landing, you're like, well,

778
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,320
Speaker 1: of course I'm sitting up here. I'm I'm this smartest

779
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 1: and most successful person in the world. They actually are

780
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 1: gassing the first class cabin to keep everybody happy. When

781
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 1: you when you get status, when you get privilege. There

782
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 1: are legitimate things that you earn in this life, but

783
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 1: there are also things that you get just because that's

784
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 1: the way the law works, or that's the way the

785
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: market works, or whatever. And when you get stuff for free,

786
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 1: your mind quickly convinces itself you deserve it. It's a

787
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: self layer of self protection. Right, and then when the

788
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 1: status is taken away for whatever reason historical change, or

789
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,959
Speaker 1: your TV show is canceled or whatever else, your mind

790
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: goes into a weird panic mode. Maybe not everybody's, no,

791
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 1: I think you're tapping into something very human. Right. If

792
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: you look at conflict throughout history, it is like you said,

793
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: it's a self protection Like you would feel guilty if

794
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: you didn't feel like you earned it, So you convince

795
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: yourself you earned it, and then when you lose it,

796
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,879
Speaker 1: you feel shame over it. Right, You feel shame. That's

797
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: exactly right, because you've lost this thing the motivator for

798
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:03,359
Speaker 1: so much poor behavior. Your historically of humans well, I mean,

799
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, every everything from chasing diamond medallion status

800
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 1: to voting for a particular presidential candidate because you feel

801
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: that your historical privilege is being taken away and you

802
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: feel you feel your status slipping, and people do irrational things,

803
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: you know, and parents too. One of the interviewers who

804
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:23,919
Speaker 1: talked to me about the book for Publishers Weekly whose

805
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: name has escaped me for a moment, but you can

806
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: look it up. She's a wonderful writer. I apologize she

807
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: made a connection that I didn't even make my own

808
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: bookcause a lot of my book is talking about parenting

809
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: and and my kids. And it's like when you're when

810
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 1: you're a parent of young kids, you are extremely famous.

811
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 1: You are the most famous person to walk into that room.

812
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 1: It's extremely gratifying. Like it's extremely gratifying to walk into

813
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 1: a room where someone goes, it's John Hodgman, you know

814
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like presuming your John Hodgman, and whether

815
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: that's John, it's always so weird, stand what's happening. But okay,

816
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna wrote. You know, you are a total

817
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 1: celebrity to your kids, you know what I mean. And

818
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: then they get older and you lose that status, like

819
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 1: they start to see you for your flaws and you're

820
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: no longer than they have start to have their own

821
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 1: thoughts and feelings and lives and so forth. And we

822
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: all deal with parents who are also aging out of

823
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:18,359
Speaker 1: their careers. They're losing their their jobs, they're losing their

824
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 1: influence over their worlds, and it's a you know, it's

825
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 1: their inflection points in life where status just drops and

826
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: people deal with it very poorly most of the time,

827
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. That's what midlife crisis is

828
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: for defer guys for sure, you know. So anyway, this

829
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 1: is all to say, I get this note saying I'm

830
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 1: seven thousand mqms away from Diamond, and I'm like I

831
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 1: need to have this, and I'm like that, how am

832
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 1: I going to do it? Now? There is I'm not

833
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 1: sure if there still was a secret website you could

834
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: go to just pay them a bunch of money to

835
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: jump up to Diamond. It's a black market of status. Yeah,

836
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: it's it's a secret website. I think it's Delta dot

837
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 1: com slash Elevate your status is that actually, but I

838
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 1: didn't know about that at the time. I thought I

839
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: had to go, so it doesn't sound very black. I

840
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 1: thought I had to earn it. So I'm I'm up

841
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,479
Speaker 1: at two am now pricing flights, trying to figure out.

842
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:13,879
Speaker 1: You know, here we are coming up. It's December, where

843
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: the holidays are coming up. I don't have time to

844
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 1: be away of commitments everywhere. The only way I can

845
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: make diamond medallion is if I fly first class to

846
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: get those extra m q m s from JFK to

847
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 1: l A X and then fly back immediately, just get

848
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: a cocktail and l A X and whipped around and

849
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 1: and it was gonna cost thousands of dollars, never mind

850
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: the amount of you know, carbon footprint that I was

851
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: adding to my life. It was unnecessary, total waste. And

852
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 1: then I thought about how I could possibly explain this

853
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: to my son as I got up, and you know,

854
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: he's been traumatized because I've been flying away so long,

855
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:52,839
Speaker 1: but he's always a good sport. I would say, I'm sorry,

856
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 1: I have to fly today and go. You're going to work,

857
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 1: I understand. I'm like, well, not really for work, not

858
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 1: really for anything. I just have to go and get

859
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: an imaginary medallion, just whispering in his in his ear

860
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 1: and whispered diamond. Yes, I just have to There's an

861
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 1: imaginary diamond medallion in Los Angeles, and I have to

862
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: go get it because and you'll understand this, son, you're

863
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 1: a gamer, right, you got you gotta power up, you

864
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 1: gotta This is a magic dot that if I eat it,

865
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 1: I will turn big. And then I can turn around

866
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 1: and all those ghosts that have been chasing me through

867
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: this maze of insecurity and it's self loathing, They're gonna

868
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 1: turn scared and I can eat them for once, and

869
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 1: finally I'll be loved by a major corporation for a

870
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: whole year. So it's worth it. I won't tell you

871
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: whether or not I book the flight. Okay, you have

872
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 1: to read the book. That's fair. I think it's a nice,

873
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: you know, micro cosmic example of how we trade ourselves

874
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 1: for validation. Yeah, which is again a historical problem you

875
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: see in so many conflicts. If you break it down

876
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: to the component parts and the decision makers, it's a

877
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,240
Speaker 1: very similar thing. They don't know that that's what they're chasing.

878
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 1: They're not cognizant. But it's diamond medallion status, but it

879
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 1: almost always is. And you know that there is one

880
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 1: thing that Donald Trump really really craves, and that's validation.

881
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: And he's he's wanted it his whole life, and he

882
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 1: lives in consistent insecurity, even even though he is the

883
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 1: president of the United States. He is consistently afraid of

884
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: losing status and acts acts like certain people who are

885
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 1: afraid of losing status act, which is rashly say. I'll

886
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 1: say that so polite. Your book is at October, is correct? Yes,

887
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,439
Speaker 1: I just remembered that I didn't even have it written down.

888
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: And if this isn't if I don't know when this right.

889
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: Attention time travelers, if you have landed in this timeline

890
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: before October, you may preorder my book by going to

891
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 1: bit dot lee. That's b I, T dot l Y

892
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,479
Speaker 1: slash medallion status all one more at all capital letters,

893
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 1: but Doutley slash medallions. That's a U r L, which

894
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 1: is the the That is an address to a website,

895
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:09,320
Speaker 1: a form of information we use during this time. It

896
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 1: may be antique to you or maybe the far future

897
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 1: to you. I don't know, time travelers, but if you

898
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:17,319
Speaker 1: land after October, you can go to that website and

899
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: buy it. You can go to a bookstore and buy

900
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,959
Speaker 1: it audiobook, e book, hardcover, or you can come see

901
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:27,359
Speaker 1: me on my book tour, which goes through November. John

902
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 1: Hodgman dot com slash tour. That's another U r L

903
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 1: for a website. I bet you could buy it at

904
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 1: airports too, I hope. So. I think that's fabulous. I

905
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 1: really want to do some off the cuff readings at

906
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:43,800
Speaker 1: the sky Club. Um. There's a fun story that you

907
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:45,399
Speaker 1: tell in your book about the first time you get

908
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 1: into first class by kind of just inviting yourself in there. Um.

909
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,399
Speaker 1: And there's a line in that segment that I really loved,

910
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 1: which is when you get away with something brash and

911
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:57,399
Speaker 1: ridiculous and unfair, it is natural for you to feel

912
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: that is perfectly natural. Um. I don't know brash applies,

913
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 1: but it feels ridiculous and unfair that I got to

914
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: spend this time just chatting with you, because what it's

915
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,479
Speaker 1: like for me to me, it feels perfectly natural. Yeah,

916
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,720
Speaker 1: thank you so much, Thank you so much. What a pleasure.

917
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:15,399
Speaker 1: Good luck with history. We'll fix it still, they're still

918
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 1: making more of it. So you should have you should

919
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: have a podcast for a long time ago, we hope.

920
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, we are categorizing John Hodgman as our listener

921
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: mail today because this is a long episode. But thank

922
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: you so much John for hanging out and talking to me.

923
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: The part you won't here in that is uh John

924
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 1: and I talking about Disney Parks for a shocking amount

925
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: of time before we ever got to airline discut. Yeah,

926
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I missed you, John. I was in the

927
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 1: Internetlas Hills of the border between New York and Pennsylvania.

928
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 1: You know, everybody's gotta have some time away, you gotta unplug.

929
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 1: If you are still plugged in and would like to

930
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 1: reach out to us, you can do so at History

931
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: Podcast at house stofworks dot com. You can also find

932
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: us anywhere on social media as Missed in History and

933
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:01,280
Speaker 1: Missed in History dot Com is our website. We would

934
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:03,439
Speaker 1: love it if you would subscribe to the show. That's

935
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 1: kind of like our listener loyalty program subscription right um.

936
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 1: If you do that, you could do that at Apple Podcasts,

937
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:11,840
Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, or wherever it is

938
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:19,320
Speaker 1: that you listen. Stuff you Missed in History Class is

939
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radios. How Stuff Works for

940
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 1: more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the i heart

941
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

942
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 1: favorite shows.