1 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing, 2 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: My chance to talk with artists, policymakers, and performers, to 3 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: hear their stories, what inspired their creations, what decisions changed 4 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: their careers, what relationships influenced their work. Ira Glass caused 5 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: a revolution in public radio, and he is now its 6 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: primary kingmaker. Glass wasn't the first to share well crafted 7 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: stories about so called ordinary people, but his show This 8 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: American Life connected with a younger generation of public radio listeners, 9 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:47,279 Speaker 1: and they became fiercely loyal. Ira Glass has become so 10 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: popular that the winner of this year's Halloween contest in 11 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: Fort Green, Brooklyn was a dog, the small, white, fluffy type, 12 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: dressed as Ira. This is a level of fame. I 13 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: didn't quite know existing. Is this what you bargain for? No? 14 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: Has this happened to you. I've never won the Ford 15 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: Queen Pupster Halloween custom event. You've got me there? I mean, 16 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm a little jealous. Yeah, yeah, I'm not 17 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: sure jealousy is exactly the right word, but it's something. 18 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: It's a weird thing to have happened. Um, how do 19 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 1: you feel about? I mean, I listened to Fred Armis 20 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: and do the episode with you where he's doing you, 21 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: and I try to do you all the time because 22 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: you fit into a category all those yours works, Yours is. 23 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 1: Yours is of a style of announcer, host, journalists, broadcaster, 24 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: or whatever you want to call it. I mean, I 25 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: hear so many people now on the radio who are 26 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: the opposite of what I grew up with. And I 27 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: think it comes down to, like, what do you think 28 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: authority comes from? And back when we were kids, authority 29 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: came from enunciation, precision, delivery, and a kind of gravitas 30 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: that you are bringing to the character you're playing. And 31 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: I think that you know, not just me, but a 32 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: whole generation of people feel like, well, that character is 33 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: obviously a phony pretending to be this like cartoon, sort 34 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: of like the newscaster on The Simpsons with a deep voice, 35 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: having gravitas. And so I think a lot of us 36 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: just when in the other direction. And for me, I 37 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,119 Speaker 1: felt like, you know, any story hits you harder if 38 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 1: the person delivering it doesn't sound like some news robot, 39 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: but in fact sounds like a real person having the 40 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: reactions a real person would have, and be surprised and 41 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,519 Speaker 1: amazed and amused. The very thing I'm talking about you 42 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: were aware of when you were doing your show and 43 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: conscious of, you know. And I mean I started off 44 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: at MPR when I was nineteen, at MPRE on Washington 45 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: doing what First it was an intern, and then I 46 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: worked on a documentary series where I learned a lot 47 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: of things. By the time I was I was I 48 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: was a production assistant. And all things considered, does that 49 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: mean I've been tween college? Basically, go to Quebec. I 50 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: went to Northwestern for two years and then switched to Brown. 51 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: Graduated from Brown in semiotics, which is a field of 52 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: sort of pretentious literary theory, but actually is all about 53 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: how to structure a narrative. So it's an enormous practical training. 54 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: And there are things that I learned in school that 55 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 1: I use every day to this day. But anyway, then 56 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 1: we go back and forth between college and working at NPR. 57 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: And at first when I tried to be on the radio, 58 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: like most people like, I tried to be the official thing, 59 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: and then at some point I trained myself out of 60 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: it because I thought it's not as effective untrained yourself 61 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: out of it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And NPR obviously has 62 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:23,959 Speaker 1: like a tradition of people going back to the seventies 63 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 1: who talked not like normal announcers, but like people. Susan 64 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: Stanberg was the host of All Things Considered, which I 65 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: think people today might not even remember this lady who 66 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: really set a tone where she She's just seemed like 67 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: some Upper West Side New York lady, like leaning into 68 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: the microphone mentally talking to you over the radio. You 69 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: just say, mentually the adver mentally, you don't get you 70 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: don't get it. That doesn't get that's a that's that's 71 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: an advert that that's only on the But I got 72 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: she was mentally leading into the microphone, yes, and talking 73 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: like a person. So there were other people doing it. 74 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: I heard people doing it. I was just like, that's 75 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: the direction I gotta go in. I mean, when I 76 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: think about your show, I wonder what it's like for 77 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: you editorially in terms of do you sit there and 78 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: you consciously try to take out of any political point 79 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: of view. I mean the kinds of stories we're doing, 80 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: I think, you know, when we take on something that's 81 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: in the news, you know what we're looking for is 82 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: a story with characters and scenes and emotion and and 83 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: looking for a way to to show something new that 84 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: people don't know. So, for example, when we did an 85 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: hour in Guantanamo, like we didn't go into it advocating 86 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: Guantanamo should be shut down or it shouldn't be shut down, 87 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: you know, like we we don't, we don't have an 88 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: agenda that way. Like when we did an hour on it, 89 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: we did an hour because it had been a couple 90 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: of years into Guantanamo existing, and we read that I 91 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: can't remember the number of people, a number of detainees, 92 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: like a couple of hundred detainees had been released. We 93 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: had discovered, like you know, the US did determined like 94 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 1: you guys aren't enemy combatants. You guys, you know, go 95 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: back to Pakistan or wherever. And we had noticed that 96 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: nobody in America interviewed them just to ask like the 97 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: normal things you know that like you don't want to know, 98 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: like how were you treated? Do you want to kill us? 99 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 1: All on that and then so like you go into that, 100 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: like you the question of like what our stand politically 101 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: on Guantanamo is it doesn't know. I appreciate that, but 102 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: I'm warning, do people sometimes view you as being liberal? 103 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: Of course they do because because of public radio, which 104 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: is seen as liberal. Though though when you look at 105 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: the studies of like what actually gets covered on the 106 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 1: news programs in the way it's covered, I feel like 107 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: the numbers bear out the fact that it is not 108 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 1: more liberal than other news sources. That said, there's a 109 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: tone in the way certain things are covered that conservatives here, 110 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: and from talking to conservatives, like, I know like that, 111 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: I think that's a real thing. Um. I think at 112 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: one point, there was a show that we did on 113 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: one of the elections, and it was about how people 114 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:43,919 Speaker 1: voted and why they voted the way they voted, And 115 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: I had a long series of discussions with these people 116 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: who are like swing voters because I was fascinated with it. Like, Alec, 117 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: you just think about like an election of like Carry 118 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: versus Bush, and you're coming down to like the last 119 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: three weeks before the election. Who are the people who 120 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: haven't decided? Like how can you like like whatever you say, 121 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: like those are two very different the unknowns. Yeah, Like 122 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: what do you have to know? Like you know them 123 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: both really well, Like what exactly? Especially people who are 124 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: following the news, like like what is there to wonder 125 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: about at that point, and I think in that show 126 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: I came out and said, look, I'm a Democrat, just 127 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 1: said to the audience, because I felt there was a 128 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: point in the discussion. In my interviews people were identifying 129 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: as Republican or Democrats, and I felt like, why pretend 130 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: anything but this like usually about democratic That said, like 131 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: many Democrats, I find them to be the most annoying 132 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: party and so not representing what I believe on so 133 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: many issues, and so lacking in so many ways, and 134 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 1: so not doing what I would have them do. So 135 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: even saying that I usually about Democrat, I feel like 136 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 1: it doesn't even get near what my actual politics are. 137 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: But if I have to pick choice reluctantly, it's the 138 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 1: same thing as like we've done so many stories about God. 139 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: At some point I went on the air and said like, look, 140 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 1: I don't believe in God. Like I'm just gonna put 141 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: that out in front. So take everything you're about to 142 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: hear with the grain of salt that you should. Right, 143 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: it's just truth and packaging. And I think that it's 144 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: different for me as somebody who's on once a week, 145 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: you know, doing a documentary show that's coming like a 146 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: bunch of different stuff. It's different for me than it 147 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: is for like the hosts of All Things Considered or 148 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: Brian Williams or you know what I mean. Like it's 149 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: just my role is different, and so I think I 150 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,679 Speaker 1: have that freedom. When did you realize you do believe 151 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: in God? How old were you a teenager? Did you 152 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: grow up in a religious household? I grew up. It's weird. 153 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: My parents we were Jews in the suburbs. So I 154 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: went to I went to Hebrew School and then went 155 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: to like the high school version of that. Like, I 156 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: continued past my environments and at some point I realized 157 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: I didn't. It just didn't add up from me, like 158 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: you know, you're in love or you're not in love. 159 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: Like it's just like there's another explanation for everything around me, 160 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: which makes more sense. Then there's a big dad who 161 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: created this all you know, and just you know, universe 162 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: has been here. There was like some sort of something 163 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: that happened, Yeah, something like climbed up on the shores 164 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: of Yeah. Actually when I was thirteen and fourteen, Like 165 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: one of the things that was a huge influence on 166 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: me was you remember that you remember these books. Eric 167 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: van Danikin was the author Chariots of the Gods. Oh 168 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: my God, I love this. And I remember being in 169 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: Hebrew College, bottom of Hebrew College and arguing with the 170 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: teachers there are these old rabbis about like, but this 171 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: passage in like Exodus or Genesis, wouldn't this be better 172 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: explained by these paintings on the ground, you know, like 173 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: that we were actually visited by the whole theory of it. 174 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: For people who don't know what this is, it was 175 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: like this series of books, and there was TV specials 176 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: and stuff that if you actually looked at it, it 177 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: seems like what they're trying to tell us is people 178 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: visited us from outer space and that's that's what they witnessed. 179 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: Scientology really is closer to what we've been exactly. Scientology 180 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: has a good point on it. I remember arguing that 181 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: in Hebrew College with my professors there, and they were 182 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 1: not They did not buy it, and you probably got slapped, 183 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: like young Woody Allen in radio days, dare you mentioned this? 184 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: Aliens from space? The universe is expanding? What what? What? 185 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: What do you what difference does it make? Are you 186 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: an atheist? No? I believe, I don't know what I 187 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: believe in terms of the specific. I had a Catholic 188 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: priest once say to me, listen, I believe in a 189 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: piece of many religions. The Jews have something to say, 190 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: and the Muslims have something to say, and the Buddhists 191 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: have something to say. The Hindus have something to say. 192 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: He said, sometimes I think I'm a Catholic because they 193 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: just own the nicest real estate and have the nicest 194 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: places to hang out in. And I mean, this is 195 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: a priest that said that to me. He says, you know, 196 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: and I believe in a god I believe in. I mean, 197 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: I believe something had to be responsible for this. And 198 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: I also believe, oddly enough, as a result of some 199 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: stories I've heard on your show. You know, you know, 200 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: life itself and stories that come to me make me 201 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 1: believe there must be some God behind This is my belief, 202 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: not a fact. Obviously, my atheist message is not coming 203 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: through the subliminal. You fail failing the one thing you 204 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: failed that but you fail. Are there some shows? But 205 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: having said that, I have to say, like we do 206 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: a lot of shows and religion, We do a lot 207 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: of shows on faith because I think it's it's not 208 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: covered very well. Like if it's it's a sort of 209 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: an area of opportunity if you're if you're a reporter 210 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: or a documentary producer, like in America, it's one thing 211 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: that's actually the media do is a terrible job with 212 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: and it's gotten better over the last fifteen years, but 213 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: still like not so great of covering people of faith 214 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: and covering them in terms that are that actually document 215 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: people's relationship with their faith, like generally in the media. 216 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: Like there's a whole phase of our show where where 217 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: where this was like a big thing we were doing 218 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: a lot of because my feeling like looking at the 219 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: way people who were religious were covered, they would be 220 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: these cartoon characters right like the you know, you see 221 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: them like these right wing, inflexible like doctrinaire and their beliefs. 222 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: And when I compared that to the actual Christians who 223 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: were in my life, they were super thoughtful and way 224 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 1: more compassionate and way more just just the way they 225 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: lived their religion was so radically different. Even though they 226 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: were very devout, radically different from what I was seeing. 227 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: I was like, we need to document this because this 228 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: is a whole territory of stuff. And so we did 229 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: a whole set of stuff where I went out with 230 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 1: kids on their mission trip and we did this thing 231 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: about this ministerry named Carlton Pearson, and just we did 232 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff because it seemed like an uncovered 233 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: territory and obviously like doing that without and he I 234 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: wasn't trying to bring anybody over to my side. That 235 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: would be boring. I wasn't interested. And I had a 236 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: friend of mine who was an actor who I worked 237 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: with once. He was very devout, very observant jew me 238 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,079 Speaker 1: and his wife. And I once said to him, what 239 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: does it mean to you? And like, what what is 240 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: Judaism to you? And he said to me, it's the 241 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: study of how we as human beings distinguished ourselves from 242 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: the animals. And when he said that, it has leveled me. 243 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: I'll take that. I take all these little pieces and 244 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: I say to myself, my dad died and I just 245 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: had this such an incredible emotional connection to my father. 246 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: The President of the United States were shot in nineteen 247 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: sixty three. Their energy was such a force in my 248 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: life and them in the world at large. Where did 249 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: they go? Does that energy, that is the human soul 250 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: and the human essence just dissipate and is it, you know, 251 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: like the light switch, like when you think, when you die, 252 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: it just over, It's over. And I do think that 253 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: though I'm all is given pause by this a Billy 254 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: Collins poem called the Afterlife, where the thesis of the 255 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: poem is that each one of us goes to the 256 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: afterlife that he believes in. And I'm always scared of like, 257 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: oh no, if I believe that that's what I'm going 258 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: to get. It's funny I thought the same thing. Someone 259 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: said to me, what do you think is the afterlife? 260 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: And do you believe in that idea? Maybe they based 261 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 1: it off this poem. They said that when you die, 262 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: it's a soul in your imagination, and they said, what 263 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: do you think happens in the afterlife? I said, mine's 264 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: pretty mundane, mine's pretty sad. He said why. I said, 265 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: when you go into a room and it's a screening 266 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: room and God is there. We sit down and it 267 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: gets you some iced tea and you have a sandwich, 268 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: and he's like, so what do you want to know? 269 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: And you look at me, you know where he knows 270 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: he's God, and you're like, you know, He's like okay. 271 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: Larry Roll the film and they showed me what really 272 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: happened in Kennedy's assassination. I want them to start to 273 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: tell me the truth. Can you also in that version 274 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: of it, be like, Okay, So on this date in 275 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: the year, my wife and I got into an argument. 276 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: I swear she said this, and then I said this, 277 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: and then she said this. She swears mine is very cinematic, 278 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 1: and I say, they say, okay, show me the movie. 279 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 1: Who was the girl that really loved me the most? Roland? See, 280 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: you get your answers, You finally get your answers. You 281 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: want your answers, You want your answers. What a shame 282 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: you don't get to do anything with that information, you know, 283 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: like as a film. Like if this were to be 284 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 1: a film, the thing you're describing it needs a third act. 285 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: Observing that my Afterlife of Fantasy requires a third act 286 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: comes instinctively to Ira. He can't help but think about 287 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: a conversation as if he's the editor, marking the structural 288 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: strengths and weaknesses of each anecdote. More of my conversation 289 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: with Ira Glass coming up next time on Here's the Thing. 290 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 1: We sit down with actress Julianne Moore. She shares her 291 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: special technique for getting ready to play a scene. I'm 292 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: very chatty. I'd like to talk all the way up 293 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: to action. I do, I do, And if you can't 294 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: talk to me, I'm really disappointed. Then I get lonely. 295 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,319 Speaker 1: Want to be lonely. When I'm wanting I want to 296 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: do with my buddy. I'm gonna talk to me. You 297 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: talk to me, friend. Let's be buddies talking to you. 298 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: What did you do this morning? What did you have 299 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: for dinner last night? What are you doing later today? 300 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: Are you cold? Do you like that sweater? Did you 301 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: like my sweater? What are you doing? Action acting? I 302 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 1: love it. That's my favorite part. Then you get this 303 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: great connection with another human being, and then the scenes 304 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: like Comes Alive, that's Julianne Moore. Next time on Here's 305 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: the Thing. This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to 306 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: Here's the Thing. In January of two thousand twelve, This 307 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: American Life Friend excerpts of performer Mike daisy solo show 308 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: The Agony and the Ecstasy of Steve Jobs. The episode 309 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: featured segments from Daisy's Peace, in which he visited a 310 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: factory in China that made iPhones. Two months after Daisy's 311 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: Peace aired, a reporter discovered discrepancies in his story. Mike 312 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: Daisy had made things up. This American Life retracted the story, 313 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: and Ira and his team had to ask themselves, how 314 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: did this happen? We were pretty good fact checkers, I 315 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: thought before mcdaisy and and uh, you know, I worked 316 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: at MPR News and we were at the level that 317 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: we were at an MPR News like we looked into 318 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: it as well as we could. We talked to over 319 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: a dozen people who had either been in those factories 320 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: or human rights groups that monitored those factories, and you know, 321 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: people confirmed everything that he said in the story as 322 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: things that really happened in these plants, with one exception. 323 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: He said that he met a fifteen year old going 324 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: into work at a factory making apple products, and all 325 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: the human rights workers everybody we talked to said like, 326 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: actually apples like super great about that, and like would 327 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: be very hard for a subcontractor to have underage workers. 328 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: And has been a leader in this so if that happened, 329 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: it was a fluke. And in the original show we 330 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: did with him, I confronted with that and he's like, 331 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: oh yeah, I don't want to tell you anyone I know, 332 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: show me a picture of the person, which isn't really telling, 333 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: but he said, you know they you know, they give 334 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: me proof, and we sort of put it all of 335 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: that out there. Did that make you angry? Well, then 336 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: we found out, like, the one thing that we didn't 337 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: do is we didn't talk to his translator. And he said, look, 338 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: I got this phone number, but when I call it, 339 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: it doesn't you know, it's some lady in China I 340 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: met at the hotel and like, and so we you know, 341 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: we we we gave up, you know, we didn't do that, 342 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: which at that point we should not have put the 343 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: thing on the radio. After we broadcast, another reporter found 344 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: that translator and she said, basically, she was with him 345 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: his whole time and all these things that he says 346 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: happened did not happen. And so did that make you angry? 347 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: People trust you, they admire you, and no one, no 348 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: one falls you for that obviously, And I don't know 349 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: you're not gonna say this. This is me say this. 350 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: Mike Daisy may be gifted, but he's full of ship. 351 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: But the thing is, when that happened, did that piss 352 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: you off? Did that make you angry? I wish him, 353 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: I mean maybe at some level, Like honestly, like my 354 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: first reaction was not being mad at him. Um then 355 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: an atheist thing. No, yeah, we've just given up on 356 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 1: life Ale no um, I mean I mean, honestly, like 357 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: the main thing I thought is like I just wondered 358 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 1: if we were all going to keep our jobs, you 359 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like I really wondered, like is 360 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 1: this it is the radio show over? Like that was 361 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: the main thing I thought. I don't know, I just 362 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: I just it was a mix of things. Mad was 363 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: in there somewhere about definitely was not the biggest part. 364 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: Other people in my staff were definitely way madder at him, 365 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: and we're mad. But I had worked with him so 366 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 1: closely and adapting the thing for the radio. I felt 367 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: very close to him actually, and I just felt like 368 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: like like your friend did something, I mean, what we 369 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:40,959 Speaker 1: you know, I just made him doing had a bit 370 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 1: of a relationship with relationship when I said like, oh no, 371 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: like what have you done? And that was a way 372 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 1: bigger part of it. But but you were asking has 373 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: they have things changed around the radio show since then? 374 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 1: And the answer is is yes, And now in addition 375 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: to doing like all the stuff we did back when 376 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 1: I worked on Morning Edition and all things considered to 377 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: like see the stories are true. We have professional fact checkers, 378 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: like in the New York or something, and so every 379 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: script has gone through by fact checkers who we hire, 380 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: and they go back to all the sources in the 381 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 1: story and they go back to everything, and it's just 382 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: like it's it's a lot of work, but I have 383 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:11,959 Speaker 1: to say it's been a glove way. It's been awesome. 384 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: No approtose, but no appropos that when you know setting aside, 385 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: I should say the fact checking thing in the whole 386 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: Daisy thing and how he played that out. Some of 387 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: your shows I listened to you, and these are among 388 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: my favorite shows. I mean, like the Adrian Schoolcraft thing. 389 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: I mean, my my hair was standing up on my 390 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: arms when the cops are in his house in the end, 391 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 1: they're gonna take them away to quote unquote to the hospital. 392 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: You know what I mean. Do you ever fear any 393 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 1: blowback from shows like that the Carmen Cigar one that 394 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,719 Speaker 1: was on recently, You over fear that, you know, the 395 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: cops are come and get you, come and get somebody 396 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: in your building, or you really pulled the covers on 397 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people on that piece. When the Schoolcrafted, 398 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: I should Schoolcraft died and we had all been published 399 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: in the in the Village Voice, so I felt like 400 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: we were just doing kind of a cover version of 401 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 1: what they had done in the Village Voice. So no, 402 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: I definitely did not I think have a much bigger 403 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 1: audience in the Village Voice. Yeah yeah, yeah, but the 404 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: only people who New York cops are care about is 405 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: people in New York, and so like to the Village 406 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: Voice reached everybody who they would care about, Like, No, 407 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: I didn't worry about that, and I didn't worry like 408 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 1: when we did a show about the FED that like 409 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: the Fed was going to somehow like shut down my 410 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: bank account or something like. No, I would imagine that 411 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: for you. Because you seem like such a level headed guy, smart, mature, 412 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: all all these good things. It must be impossible for 413 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: your very difficult for you to fire someone. Have you 414 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 1: ever had to fire someone from the from the company. Yeah, 415 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 1: and I've had to fire a few people, yeah yeah, 416 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: And did you do the firing yes? Yeah, yeah, I 417 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: mean because the Readers Show has been on their since then, 418 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 1: I work for you. I work for you, and you're 419 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: gonna fire me? Go what do you say? I say, Um, well, 420 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: I mean it's all particular to the circumstances that person, 421 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: isn't it. Um you as it like Donald Trump? Alex, 422 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: you fired like you're fired. That's good, You're fined. Alex. 423 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: You said you do an imitation of me? How would 424 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 1: you do it? As? No, I can't do it now 425 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: that I'm with you, I can't. You know, you strike me. 426 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: You're really one of the most dense thinker speakers I've 427 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 1: ever heard in my life. And what you say is 428 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: very lucid and illuminating and smart only on the radio 429 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: real life when you're doing it now and you're so 430 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: you're so seamless, and and the velocity is just breathtaking. 431 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 1: But what I'm wondering is I also have an image 432 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: of you like a prize fighter, so that when they're 433 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: getting ready for the big fight and they're you know, 434 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:27,959 Speaker 1: they don't have sex with their wife, they don't drink alcohol, 435 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: they don't need any salt for their blood pressure. They 436 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: lay there in a bathrobe and watch game shows all day. 437 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: They rest, They rest. What does Ira Glass do in 438 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: his private time. I mean when you're not working, when 439 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: you have downtime, When I have downtime, honestly, like I 440 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: don't have a huge amount of downtime, like usually on 441 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: the sliver of it you have. Um, I walk my dog, 442 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,239 Speaker 1: try to spend a little time with my wife. What 443 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: does she do She helps run a website for teenage 444 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 1: girls with Tommy Givenson. Now I think she just turned 445 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: eighteen year old girl who's starting on Broadway, but has 446 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: this website called Rookie mag dot com. And basically Tavy 447 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: decided that there should when she was fifteen years old 448 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: and in high school, she thought, as a teenage girl, 449 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: there was all this culture being marketed to her, and 450 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: none of it accurately sort of described the world that 451 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: she saw it or seemed to capture the things that 452 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 1: were most interesting to her. And so she decided she 453 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: would make that herself and organized kind of an army 454 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: of young women to do it. It's three posts a day. 455 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: It's really funny writing and just like it's it's wonderful, 456 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: and so my wife helps her, helps her out. I 457 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: find it incredible that even with the slightest prompting, you 458 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: can give me the bio or the story you can 459 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: tell everyone's story about your own. You can tell everyone 460 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: you you only gave us the dog walking and you said, 461 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: and I love that was very I try to spend 462 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: time with my wife. What other what do you watch news? 463 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: Do you watch TV to like films? Music? I mean, honestly, like, 464 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: I have seen so little of anything in the last 465 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: probably a year, just because um, we have the radio 466 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: show we started the second show. I've been touring with 467 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: a dance show all over the country and so on 468 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: the weekends and either going and making a speech to 469 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: earn enough money to live in New York City because 470 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,199 Speaker 1: I still work at a public radio salary and live 471 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: in New York City, or I go out with this 472 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: dance show where I tour with this professional dance troupe 473 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: where I tell stories and they dance in this way. 474 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: Whose idea was that? That was me and the choreographer. 475 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 1: It was the choreographer the dance company. We were trying 476 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: to figure out a way to work together. She's like, well, 477 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: let's do a thing where we combine our things, and 478 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: I was like, yes' the speaking yes, you must be 479 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: dancing very fast sometimes sometimes yeah, mus be flying through 480 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: the air. As a matter of fact. Yes, when you 481 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: say trying to make a living on a public radio salary, 482 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 1: I mean you you could pay yourself. I'm not saying 483 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: this to embarrass you, but you could pay yourself X 484 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: and you don't you fold it all back into the show, correct, Yes, 485 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: I mean you decided to do that because I go 486 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: on the radio and ask people for money, and I 487 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: thought that it's unseemly to be making a crazy amount 488 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: of money if a portion of it is money that 489 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: comes down the amount of money I mean, I feel 490 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: like I don't know, I don't know. I feel like 491 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 1: I make enough money and then to live in New York, 492 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: you know, like my wife and I were living like 493 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 1: a you know, like a two room apartment because it's 494 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 1: Manhattan and where it's in Manhattan. Because I want to 495 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: be able to be I don't want to have to 496 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: commute for four an hour and a half a day 497 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: on a train because I because I want to have 498 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 1: time that isn't either I don't want to waste how 499 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: I have a day on a train, especially if I'm 500 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: walking a dog for an hour a day. And so 501 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: so we pay a lot of money for a place 502 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: and to afford it. Basically, I was like, I don't 503 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: want to. I don't want to be charging public radio 504 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: listeners for that. What I'll do is I'll go out 505 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: and give speeches to make that money. And so that's 506 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: my system. If you had more time, what would you do? 507 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: I think I would just consume more culture. I would 508 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: I would go to more movies and read more. Like 509 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: I still have never seen you know, half the TV 510 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 1: shows that I hear about and I know that I'll like, 511 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,440 Speaker 1: but I haven't seen like in a few months ago. 512 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: I watched all of Game of Thrones at some point, 513 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 1: you know, a year ago. Yeah. I liked it a lot. Yeah, 514 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: And are you saying that in the tone of like, 515 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: no you did not like it? No, no, no, no, no, 516 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 1: I never cast any judgment or what people like it entertainment. 517 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: Yeah no. And I watched all of Louis, you know, 518 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 1: like I hadn't caught up on the like I can 519 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: watch old episodes of the match game on the Game 520 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: show Network. I mean, that's that's my comfort zone when 521 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: I was a kid growing up. Love it. But anyway, 522 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: so so no, I do no watching of anything like 523 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: basically I'm working. I'll see a friend, maybe for food, 524 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: see my wife walk the dog, and then that's that's it. 525 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: It's midnight, and then I'll go to the gym. It's 526 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: not so super glam. And then if I had more time, 527 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: I would just basically you're working, consume more culture. I 528 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 1: feel like, if anything, it's it's a problem the way 529 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: I'm doing this because I'm not consuming enough. Do you 530 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: think it's gonna last forever? I don't know. I don't 531 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,719 Speaker 1: have another plan besides this like this. I like this 532 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: so like I like making stuff. I like editing, I 533 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: like writing. People. Yeah, like like people love show and 534 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: and it's secure, like it just feels like, oh my god, 535 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: it's it's there's enough people who like it that it's 536 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: a totally solid business. And then also it does well 537 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: enough that we can experiment. I put on a movie 538 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 1: with Mike Brebigulia, you know, a couple of years ago, 539 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: and we can um, you know, and we do these 540 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: events where we do them on stage and beam them 541 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: into movie theaters around the country. And we did a 542 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 1: show at BAM where we had, you know, somebody wrote 543 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: a musical for it and opera and all this stuff 544 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: built out of real stories about journalism. Turned into like 545 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: a Broadway musical with real Broadway you know, performers, you know, 546 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: and so like it's big enough that we can kind 547 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: of do anything we want with that, and that's just 548 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:37,919 Speaker 1: you know, it's just lovely, Like I don't know what 549 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: else the person could want. Do people when when you 550 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: do the show, do people only the people in the 551 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: house they pitched the ideas or do people outside pitch 552 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: you ideas? Oh my goodness. Yeah. I mean there was 553 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 1: a period where I mean people right into our website 554 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: and there's a place, you know, where you can pitch 555 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: a story, and then there's a person or two on 556 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: staff who go through that looking for the stories that 557 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: might work. And there are phases where there's something on 558 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 1: the show every week or every other week from that list. 559 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,400 Speaker 1: Like it's not unusual that people will pitch us and 560 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,120 Speaker 1: those stories will end up on the show. So yeah, 561 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:09,439 Speaker 1: I mean the opening of the show that we did 562 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: at BAM was the story of this girl woman who 563 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: accidentally locked herself into a closet. She was an opera singer, 564 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,199 Speaker 1: but she makes her living partly reading books on tape, 565 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 1: and she was in a hotel room and she's like 566 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: I got to record this book on tape on a deadline. 567 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: So she goes into the closet and puts you know, 568 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: like pillows all around to like cushion the sound. And 569 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: her computer is sitting in the hotel room and she 570 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: pulls the microphone because the computer out a worrying sound, 571 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: and she pulls the microphone into the closet, closes the door. 572 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 1: She starts to record, and then she was I messed 573 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: that up, and she's gonna go out and started over again. 574 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: I started a new file, and she goes to open 575 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 1: the door and the doors locked, like there's something wrong 576 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: with the mechanics. You can't get out of the closet, 577 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: But the thing is still recording. You hear her all 578 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 1: the steps she goes through and trying to get out 579 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: of this closet, including yelling to people down the hall. 580 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: Some German tourists go by, and so that was just 581 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 1: somebody she wrote us, you know, like that that's the 582 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: opening of the show. That that she told us that story, 583 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 1: And at some point in the interview was like, okay, 584 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 1: so if you you're an opera singer, if you were 585 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 1: to stage this as an opera, what would it be? 586 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: And she's like I think it would be a minimalist opera, like, 587 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 1: you know, just this repetitive music. And I was just 588 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: saying help, help, help, over and over, and I was like, 589 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: you know, I have the hook up for that. My 590 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 1: cousin is Philip Glass, so we had him. Right. We 591 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: commissioned that as an opera that we performed on stage 592 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 1: at the Brooklyn Academy of Music. Alright, Golfrey. Ira Glass 593 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: has a natural talent for creating compelling radio. I wanted 594 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: to follow up with him and find out why is 595 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: his show so successful? We have him? You have me? Hello? 596 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: I have you? Send it way more romantic than I 597 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,640 Speaker 1: met it? Did you have me? Hi? This is Ira 598 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 1: Glass Glass. They're life. I can't do I can't do it. 599 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: I can't do it because I can't do it when 600 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 1: you try, because to do it, it's like it's like 601 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 1: a state of mind. You know, it's like a state 602 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 1: of plane. But you But you know what's funny is 603 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,680 Speaker 1: you are someone when I made that comment to you 604 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 1: about the announcer thing and people who are a different 605 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: type of radio broadcaster, but you are someone who does 606 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: not have uh you know, you've got a good delivery 607 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: and you're a great radio broadcaster, and everything and the 608 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: speed of it and the velocity of it is obviously 609 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: a signature of yours. But what kills me is your 610 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: mastery of what you say, Like do you go back 611 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: sometimes I have to recorded again and again, or do 612 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: you just zip through that thing like you're just shooting 613 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: down a loose ride. I wish I could. I wish 614 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: I could do that. When we record my parts of 615 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: the show, I'll do more than one take, for sure, 616 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: but not a lot of takes. No too, can I say? 617 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: It took me a long time to go and how 618 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: to perform on the radio, like I was so bad 619 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: at the beginning. I was awful, Like sometimes I play 620 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: for students, how I sounded not in my first year, 621 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: in my second year, but in year seven. And I 622 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: could play for you on your podcast if you want 623 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: to in your show like like I'm awful, Like I 624 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: had not mastered it. I had to consciously said it 625 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: as a project for myself, I'm going to try to 626 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: perform on the air of the way I talk. We 627 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: would you so you wanted to stop doing what I 628 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: sounded like somebody imitating an MPR reporter but failing. If 629 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: you give me one minute. I could walk into the 630 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: room and get a clip, and I could we have 631 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: to pay it back. You do that too bad? This 632 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: is in television, because I'll show you clips of me 633 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: on the soap opera I was on back. You don't 634 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: know what dad is? Do you see that? Hold on 635 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: this canna take me a second to bring it up 636 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: on the board. We stand by. Are you sure you 637 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: want us to hear this? Now? My job is secure? 638 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: I'm fine? Hold on? I mean, just do you find 639 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: that in terms of an editorial ear? Do you always 640 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: have that on over dinner at a family reunion wherever 641 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: you are? Is there an editorial filter toever? Or do 642 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: you ever just not? No, no, because that would be 643 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: like a crazy person. That's like saying, are you ever 644 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: not acting like? No? Of course you turn it off. 645 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: You do turn it off, of course, of course, of course, 646 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: because I'm not insane. But if somebody a medical doctor, 647 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: if somebody's just tell a story, it's a good story, obviously, 648 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: Like I you know, I'm in the market for stories, 649 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: and do you know I think, like, hey, maybe that 650 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: would be for the show. But that's pretty rare to 651 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: happen in hold on here, we go here. So again, 652 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: this is not your one year, two year, three year, 653 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: four year, five year, six This is years since you 654 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: last weekend. Yeah, exactly as last weekend. Right, It's not 655 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: such a long way from the local grocery store to 656 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,959 Speaker 1: the international debate for whether sorghum and meat production are 657 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: causing corn to decline in Latin America. Okay, first of all, 658 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: that makes no sense, but let's keep going. There's a 659 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: general air of prosperity here, partly thanks to Mexican imports 660 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: of US grains, which helped boost our farm economy. I 661 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: just want to say, if you're going to be an announcement, 662 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: just don't emphasize every other word. But what kills me 663 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,959 Speaker 1: is you're doing exactly what like you know, of all 664 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: the NPR radio host do is hitting that. You know, 665 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: one of the things we realize about the downturn in 666 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: the stock market today is the revel of the data, 667 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: and they're doing exactly what you're doing. It's before I 668 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: understood that to sound okay on the radio, you should 669 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: just talk like a person talks like a human being, 670 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: talks like you're playing a character, and the character as 671 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: a human being Mexico is now one of our biggest 672 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: grain customers, ruying a half bill into a billion dollars 673 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: worth every year, including corn defeat its people and sorghum 674 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: defeat its livestock. This helps cut our own trade deficit 675 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: and benefits everyone in the US economy. But in Mexico 676 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: this policy has led to fewer tortillas for the poor 677 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: and on appetizing tortillas for everyone else. I would just 678 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: know also that that this makes no sense at all. 679 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: Like the writing is awful, it's not just that the 680 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: performance is awful, like literally, like you can't tell what 681 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: the story is. It's a style. I mean that was 682 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: you you were working it out. I mean, it is 683 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: funny you do make Kairasdhl sound like Lenny Bruce. But 684 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: it's incredible. I mean, I think there must be an 685 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: acting version of this, because I think when people become reporters, 686 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: they want to sound like the real deal, you know 687 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: what I mean, And so you want to sound I 688 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: wanted to sound like a reporter, and so this is 689 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: what I thought the equivalent in in in the businesses. 690 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: I was did a TV show years ago, and in 691 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: the show there was a woman who was the matriarch 692 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: of a town and I had the scene with her 693 00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: where I'm kind of shaming her, like well, you know, 694 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: how could you do this and turn your back? And 695 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: we did take one and I was like, you know, 696 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 1: how could you do this? And like the tears are 697 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: rolling down my face? Take two and finally like take through. 698 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: The director goes, what are you doing? And I'm sorry? 699 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: He goes, what do you what? Why are you charging 700 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: it with so much emotion? Like you're playing the whole 701 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: episode in the Swan scene, You're putting every beat of 702 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: the entire He's like, well, you don't gotta calm down. 703 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: We're going to get there. When you're a young actor, 704 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: you emote and you kind of imbue things with that 705 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: unnecessarily and inappropriately just to do it. You think that's 706 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: that you do too much. I interviewed Billy Collins, who 707 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 1: is the Pope Lariat is writing I really love and 708 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: so idiosyncratic, like he so sounds like himself, And I 709 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: asked him like, did you always write like this? He's 710 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: like no, At first I wrote like I thought it 711 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: was a beat poet, you know, like, and I tried 712 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: to write like that. I think it's common that people 713 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: try to do like the official deal that they think 714 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: it is before they realized, like, no, I'm gonna do 715 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: a version of me in this How do you think 716 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: your life would be different if you had a child? 717 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 1: I mean I would work less, do work less, you know, yeah, 718 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: I would just I would work less. And I'm sure 719 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 1: there's a whole world of things that one gets out 720 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: of having children. Made know, there are that that I'm 721 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,399 Speaker 1: not getting in my life. There's a kind of love 722 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 1: that people have for their kids, and an experience you 723 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,760 Speaker 1: have raising a person from a baby to an adult 724 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: that's profound, that has many parts of it that like 725 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,959 Speaker 1: I am never going to have, like and I feel 726 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: a little out of touch with with a really common 727 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: experience that lots of people have. But but I'm okay 728 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: with this choice. In what way is the show reflective 729 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 1: of who you are? I mean, this show reflects my taste, 730 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: but also I have to say the taste of my coworkers, 731 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,359 Speaker 1: you know, like it's not just mine at this point, 732 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 1: Like it's something that we all share. And I happen 733 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: to be the front man, which in that way it's 734 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 1: different than than it was from the beginning, Like I 735 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: am the frontman for this thing that we make together, 736 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: like somebody who's in a band that's been playing for 737 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 1: a long time. So my last question for you, I 738 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: know we're gonna lose you, is, um, what tips do 739 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: you have for people that are interviewers? Oh? Wow, Um, 740 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 1: what tips do you have from me? Quite frankly, I think, 741 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I've I've heard tons of your shows, and 742 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: I really like your show. I think you're a very 743 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: skilled interviewer. Um. And one of the things that you 744 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,959 Speaker 1: do an interview as a party, and you're the host 745 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 1: of the party, and the interviewee will do what you do. 746 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 1: What you model is what they do too. Like it's 747 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: just human nature. And so if you tell a lot 748 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,439 Speaker 1: of funny stories, they will tell you funny stories back. 749 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,799 Speaker 1: And if you tell personal stories, they'll tell personal stories back. 750 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: And I feel there was a phase in your show where, 751 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, you had on a series of people 752 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: and it was like her Balbert and uh, I don't 753 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: can adict to have it was like this, but her 754 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,320 Speaker 1: Baber was definitely like this, where people who went through 755 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 1: their lives and we're hugely successful and then had their 756 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: hearts broken or had failed and then had to call 757 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: their way back where in those interviews you talked to 758 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,760 Speaker 1: about yourself in this way that made them talk about 759 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: themselves more. It's not exactly an interviewing trick, but in interviews, 760 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 1: you know, I will talk about myself with the interviewees 761 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,799 Speaker 1: because I know that if I talk about myself in 762 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: a way that's real. First of all, they feel safer 763 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: because I'm also talking about myself and will open up more, 764 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,920 Speaker 1: and then they talk about themselves, and so it's like 765 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 1: a fair swath. And the other thing I try to 766 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 1: do is like with Outpert is a perfect example of 767 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: the first question I asked myself as what are they 768 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 1: used to Herb Albert and his partner Jerry Moss sold 769 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 1: A and M records for like hundreds and hundreds of 770 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 1: millions of dollars back then. And this is a guy 771 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:38,839 Speaker 1: that had artistic success as a musician. He was very 772 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,839 Speaker 1: admired as an instrumentalist. He had as many hits as 773 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 1: like the Beatles, and then and then he has his 774 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,320 Speaker 1: career as a record producer with all these legendary acts. 775 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,439 Speaker 1: And then they walk in the room and so many 776 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: people in the room might go, I don't know who 777 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,359 Speaker 1: that is, but you have to sit there and go, 778 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: this person was big time once and they were big, 779 00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,239 Speaker 1: you know, and you got to treat them like they're big. Oh, 780 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: that's so inter one time. You have to treat them 781 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,840 Speaker 1: with the respect that they once commanded. The phrase I 782 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 1: always uses, what are they used to? And I give 783 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 1: it is so interesting. See, I never interview anybody that famous, 784 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,880 Speaker 1: Like I don't interview anybody who's big. I sort of 785 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 1: took myself out of that game because it made me 786 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,760 Speaker 1: so nervous, and also I think that that's a different 787 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 1: kind of interview then I'm especially good at. Like I 788 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: feel like interviewing somebody who's famous, you're constantly battling against 789 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: the fact that they've been interviewed so many times and 790 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 1: had to tell their stories so many times, and so 791 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: you constantly are having to struggle for an angle in 792 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 1: on them that will seem alive to them and and 793 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,480 Speaker 1: no knock against them, Like it's hard to be interviewed 794 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,840 Speaker 1: over and over and over about your own life and 795 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 1: how many stories do any of us have, and how 796 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,400 Speaker 1: many anecdotes do we have? They're even worth telling other people, 797 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 1: especially a group of strangers. And then the thing that 798 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: I think Terry Gross does really beautifully. And the thing 799 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,759 Speaker 1: that I hear you do is like it's almost like 800 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 1: an empathetic act of like like what is the world 801 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 1: to them? And how am I going to angle something 802 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,800 Speaker 1: in that will get them to say something. I remember 803 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 1: one of my favorite questions I ever heard Terry Gross 804 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 1: ask she she she was interviewing Ricky Jay. You know 805 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 1: that's right, the magician and um and sort of scholar 806 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 1: of magic but also an incredible card magician and I'm 807 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: super smart man Jesus. Anyway, So so she's interviewing and yeah, 808 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: she says to him. At some point in the interview 809 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 1: this thing which requires like so going inside his head. 810 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: She says to him, Um, sometimes are there ever any 811 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: magic tricks that you do where the thing that we 812 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,919 Speaker 1: don't see, that you know is happening, is actually more 813 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 1: interesting than the thing that we see. And he totally 814 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: got excited. He's like, yes, yes, absolutely, And she says, well, 815 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 1: can you tell me about that? And he's like, oh, no, 816 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: of course you child. Yeah, but for even get to 817 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: that question means so imagining her way into his life. 818 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 1: And I feel like when interviewing goes well, like somebody's 819 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,799 Speaker 1: just has good taste about doing that. You know, you 820 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:56,839 Speaker 1: know what I realized you are. Now I'm gonna end 821 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:58,359 Speaker 1: with this. You know what I realize you are. Now? 822 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: You're like the Allen add You're like the Shane of 823 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: radio hosts. I don't even know who this. You don't 824 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 1: know who Shane is? I know that that's in the 825 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 1: movie Kid and Alan Lad played Shane and he kills 826 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: Wilson the bad guy at the end. I'm doing you 827 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,919 Speaker 1: a favorite here because no percent of your audience doesn't 828 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 1: know who Shane is. Okay, of course they do. My 829 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,879 Speaker 1: audience is Lena Dunham's audience. I'm fifty six years old. 830 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: Of course, my audience, I'll have you know I hosted 831 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: Turner Classic movies. Of course my audience knows who Shane is. 832 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 1: An Alan Lad? What year did that movie about eight Cares? 833 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 1: What year it came out? How dare you question my 834 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,399 Speaker 1: prove Let's bring along the young people and the young 835 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,920 Speaker 1: people here? Dare you derail me paying you the highest compliment, 836 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: which you have the quickness of the of the most 837 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: lethal gunfighter, even when you're talking extemporaneously, like now, you 838 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,360 Speaker 1: are so goddamn quick it's scary. You have some condition. 839 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: You're like rain Man condition, like that, what's the one 840 00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Brush played with the piano player and of the one? Yea, 841 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 1: I remember thee I see, I remember Shane and we 842 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: don't remember the movie Shine Shine, which you're like, you 843 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,320 Speaker 1: are so damn fast. It's just Shane or am I shine? 844 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: That's going to be my new Twitter hand? You remember Shane? End? 845 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,439 Speaker 1: How does it end? Exactly? Shane and shin you see 846 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: there you are again trumping me god in the end 847 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,520 Speaker 1: that the boy Brandon Dewill Yills come back. Shane see 848 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 1: like the greatest shooter in the Westerns. That makes you 849 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 1: sound lame gunfighter. He's a gunfighter. You're a gunfighter, right? 850 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,360 Speaker 1: Is what we use for a video games, a shooter 851 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,560 Speaker 1: as a shooter first person? How old are you again? 852 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: You're kidding? Will you live in a young man's world? 853 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,280 Speaker 1: You're listening to here's the thing, this is Alec Baldwin. 854 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,439 Speaker 1: Let me just say, for this follow up call, thank 855 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,959 Speaker 1: you Shane for bring us a moment to the double 856 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:17,799 Speaker 1: back come back. I don't have to go back all right? Goodbye, 857 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 1: h