Speaker 1: I am David Rodgers. I was an editor, director, and
Speaker 1: producer on the Office. Well, hello, there, one and all
Speaker 1: all of you, I'm talking to you there. Welcome to
Speaker 1: this week's episode of The Office Deep Dive. I am
Speaker 1: your host Brian Baumgartner. Today, I am thrilled. I'm I'm
Speaker 1: pleased as punch, as they say, to bring on the
Speaker 1: man who worked well. He worked tirelessly on the Office.
Speaker 1: I don't think he slept at home for ten years. No,
Speaker 1: he worked to keep the show as fresh, authentic, and
Speaker 1: well hilarious is possible. And listen his decisions. They actually
Speaker 1: changed the way that um one viewed the show because
Speaker 1: he was the person who would decide what would stay
Speaker 1: and what would go and how we would see an
Speaker 1: experience it all. He was our ridiculously talented editor and
Speaker 1: later are ridiculously talented producer and director. David Rogers, or
Speaker 1: as I and everyone I know calls him Dave. Now,
Speaker 1: Dave was actually the very first editor brought onto the
Speaker 1: Office team. And listen, he was more than just a
Speaker 1: colleague a co worker. He was actually a true fan
Speaker 1: of the show from day one. He had has and
Speaker 1: had an encyclopedia knowledge of the show. He remembered every
Speaker 1: moment from every episode. I feel like he was the
Speaker 1: reason Dwight loved Battlestar Galactica. He helped Meredith get hit
Speaker 1: by a car, and he even had his own nicknames
Speaker 1: for the cat, like just guess who was called to
Speaker 1: blu roon. No, it wasn't me, uh Dave. Also, he's
Speaker 1: a force in the world of TV. The Office won
Speaker 1: five Emmy's total, two of those went to Dave. He's
Speaker 1: become a trusted collaborator for so many who worked on
Speaker 1: the show. He went on to work with Mindy Kaling
Speaker 1: on The Mendy Project, and Greg Daniels and Steve Carrell
Speaker 1: on Space Force, among many others. You may also recognize
Speaker 1: him for his well distinctive voice. He was the voice
Speaker 1: behind dunder Mifflin's very own documentarian. But before we get
Speaker 1: into the meat of this interview, and before I let
Speaker 1: you relive the show through his words, I wanted to
Speaker 1: let you know that you can also relive the show
Speaker 1: through our our brand new book, Welcome to dunder Mifflin,
Speaker 1: The Ultimate Oral History of the Office, which you can
Speaker 1: pre order on amas on right now. So go ahead,
Speaker 1: do that. Trust me, You're gonna love it. Then come
Speaker 1: back here because the time has come for you to
Speaker 1: be carried away by the incredible wealth of knowledge that
Speaker 1: is Dave Rogers. Bubble and Squeak, I love it. Bubble
Speaker 1: and squeaker, Bubble and squeaker cookie every month left over
Speaker 1: from the night before. Oh my god, oh boy, wow,
Speaker 1: you look exactly the same. Do you want to know what?
Speaker 1: You know? You don't say that. Everyone keeps saying it
Speaker 1: that I look exactly you know. I mean, well, I
Speaker 1: wanted to say it to you first, so you know what,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't say it to me. Good to see you too.
Speaker 1: It's like way too long. I know, you have to
Speaker 1: sit over there. I mean, that's the rule. I saw
Speaker 1: Mr Correll yesterday. Yeah, yes, he seemed good. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: been in he's been in editing a lot. Hey. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't think I realized that he and Greg wrote
Speaker 1: the pilot, created it together. I think Steve had the
Speaker 1: idea and then they kind of hammered out like kind
Speaker 1: of a loose thing, and then Gregg wrote in. Then
Speaker 1: he would give notes and stuff, you know, and then
Speaker 1: I think that was the process. But I think I
Speaker 1: think Steve had the idea and it came to Greg
Speaker 1: and was like, hey, what do you think about that?
Speaker 1: So yeah, let's let's do it. And then they that
Speaker 1: was it. They pitched and you know, how's Malkovich. He's good,
Speaker 1: He's good. It's uh. You know. One of the things
Speaker 1: that we're striving to do is have this kind of
Speaker 1: dual you know, they do a little bit they joust
Speaker 1: like they're friendly and but there's some jousting and things
Speaker 1: like that. We're struggling to create new relationships that are
Speaker 1: different from Michael Scott because he has like one assistant
Speaker 1: and it's like or like his secretary. And he was saying,
Speaker 1: he's you know that he has a line where he goes,
Speaker 1: I really like to get shut up Brad, and it's
Speaker 1: like we even changed it to like thank you, Brad
Speaker 1: because it was too much like shut up Dwight. You know.
Speaker 1: So we're trying cognisant of that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. The
Speaker 1: context or the character might be different, but how it's
Speaker 1: going to be perceived in some small level is going
Speaker 1: to be you're sort of built in expectation. That's fascinating. Um, okay,
Speaker 1: rewinding back, Um two thousand fourish, what are you doing
Speaker 1: prior to working on the show. So I was working
Speaker 1: on the Seinfeld DVDs. You know, I came up, I
Speaker 1: was assistant editor and Seinfeld that I started cutting. I
Speaker 1: cut the clip show for that aired right before the
Speaker 1: series finale, and uh, I would always kind of come
Speaker 1: back and do some Seinfeld things whenever things would pop up.
Speaker 1: So we were working on the DVDs. We were going
Speaker 1: through pulling you know, the bloopers behind the scenes and
Speaker 1: interviewing a bunch of you know, everybody from cast to crew,
Speaker 1: and making these many documentaries inside looks of all the
Speaker 1: episodes and just being really meticulous with things. So I
Speaker 1: was working on that. We we were getting the first
Speaker 1: three seasons out, and uh the line producer from News Radio,
Speaker 1: which was another show I had worked on, Ken Sibornac,
Speaker 1: said Hey, I have a pilot. I think you know
Speaker 1: you'd be good for it. Uh I said okay, and
Speaker 1: then uh I was like, yeah, I'd love to. Let's talk.
Speaker 1: And then I didn't hear back from him, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I understood. I always wanted it just to
Speaker 1: him to say, hey, the directors is going with his editor,
Speaker 1: you know, and be like, okay, that makes sense. But I.
Speaker 1: I didn't hear back, and then uh, I was all right,
Speaker 1: And then I get an email from him like I know,
Speaker 1: I know, I owe you a phone call. We got
Speaker 1: picked up for five episodes. I think you'd be great
Speaker 1: for the series, you know, would you like to come
Speaker 1: in and meet Greg Daniels. I'll send you the the pilot.
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah. So I watched the pilot and
Speaker 1: I loved it and it was so I was like,
Speaker 1: oh God, he's so it's dark, you know, and I
Speaker 1: love that. Uh. I mean for me, it's the moment.
Speaker 1: I'm a huge six million dollar Man fan. So him
Speaker 1: doing an impression of the six million dollar Man, like
Speaker 1: referencing it and doing it. They just went on and on,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I looked at this and I go,
Speaker 1: I'm doing this show. And I came and I met
Speaker 1: with Greg and we just hit it off right away,
Speaker 1: and we were talking about things, and it's funny. I
Speaker 1: I was talking about all the characters and I said,
Speaker 1: I feel like Dwight would like Battlestar Galactica. And this
Speaker 1: was before the new Battlestar Galactica, but I thought like
Speaker 1: Star Trek was too mainstream and cool for him that
Speaker 1: he would like this kind of smaller, more cultish old show,
Speaker 1: and uh, I said, I could just I could just
Speaker 1: see him having like a viper on his desk, you know,
Speaker 1: like an old model of a of a viper. And
Speaker 1: so it was funny that when the new show came
Speaker 1: up and that we they did work that in that
Speaker 1: he became a Battlestar Galactica fan. But I'm one of
Speaker 1: my birthdays just as a side note, like Greg bought
Speaker 1: me a huge model of a Cylon base ship like
Speaker 1: from the original series. And and in the penultimate episode,
Speaker 1: I got to direct Dwight hangs a Galactica in his
Speaker 1: office and they were like, do you want the new
Speaker 1: one or the old one. I'm like, oh, I want
Speaker 1: the original series one, you know totally, and I have that.
Speaker 1: I have the model and Rain signed it for me,
Speaker 1: you know. But I love He's got he's got a
Speaker 1: line with his you know, his son, who's he just
Speaker 1: he looks at the Galactica the same way I look
Speaker 1: at the Galactica. So it was just kind of it
Speaker 1: was just kind of funny how that all came together.
Speaker 1: But uh, yeah, I just met with Greg. We just
Speaker 1: hit it off, and that was it, and then I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, I'm hired and I'm starting on Diversity
Speaker 1: Day was the first episode, and so you were the
Speaker 1: only editor hired at that point. I was the only
Speaker 1: editor hired. And I'll say this the deep the Seinfeld DVDs,
Speaker 1: Jerry and Larry came in to watch one of the
Speaker 1: documentaries that like how the show began, and Jerry saw
Speaker 1: it and was like, well, this needs to be on TV.
Speaker 1: And so then I'm working. Then we're making the Seinfeld story.
Speaker 1: So now I'm I'm I'm editing to get this thing
Speaker 1: on TV and we're starting on the office. And I said, Greg,
Speaker 1: I said, there's gonna be a little bit of overlap.
Speaker 1: There are days where I'll be editing with Jerry Seinfeld,
Speaker 1: so I'll have to go there and and do that.
Speaker 1: I said, I'm finishing up, but there's gonna be some
Speaker 1: So there were a couple of days where he's like,
Speaker 1: when are you completely done? And I'm like, I'm almost done.
Speaker 1: I'm almost done, but I was there was a little overlap,
Speaker 1: but um, yeah, so I I sorry, go ahead. I
Speaker 1: started on a Diversity Day. Yeah, but that first season,
Speaker 1: then you're working on your finishing up the Seinfeld project
Speaker 1: and you're the only editor on the show. I was
Speaker 1: the only editor at first, And then we weren't sure
Speaker 1: when we were going to air. Originally was going to
Speaker 1: be March, and then they said there's a chance it
Speaker 1: might be you know earlier, and Greg said, I'm not
Speaker 1: going on the air in February. I don't want to
Speaker 1: be up against everybody's huge stunt episodes. So that meant
Speaker 1: we would be on the air in January. And because
Speaker 1: of that, then there was pressure to get the episodes done.
Speaker 1: So Stu Bass, who's a veteran editor, he came in
Speaker 1: and so we were we were tag team on a
Speaker 1: few episodes. So like, I think there were somewhere I cut,
Speaker 1: there was a couple where he cut, there was somewhere
Speaker 1: he'd finished, you know. He like I would do the
Speaker 1: assembly and he would work with the director and vice versa.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you got the aesthetic of the
Speaker 1: show right away? How much was Greg directing you in
Speaker 1: terms of how he wanted the show to look or feel. Um,
Speaker 1: I think I got it right away. I mean I
Speaker 1: just was like, oh, this is funny, and I mean
Speaker 1: there's definitely a little difference with finding uh, just the
Speaker 1: style of the mockumentary and having these kind of cameras
Speaker 1: moving around. Um, we played around a lot definitely that
Speaker 1: first season. We spent a lot of time. You know.
Speaker 1: One of the things that was cool was that they
Speaker 1: shot you guys, I think, in two different outfits, Like
Speaker 1: we could take general views of you of just like
Speaker 1: you guys sitting in the office. And even if we
Speaker 1: shot of for episode one, it also worked for episode
Speaker 1: three and episode five and then two and four you
Speaker 1: might have had similar clothes or something like that. You know,
Speaker 1: there was something where we had general views that we
Speaker 1: could kind of steal from one episode and put into another. Um.
Speaker 1: The one thing that was knew about this kind of
Speaker 1: show than anything I had done before was usually, you know,
Speaker 1: when you're editing comedy, it's like fast, fast, fast, and
Speaker 1: you're pacing it up. And here it was like, no,
Speaker 1: we need these moments of of breath and it's holding
Speaker 1: on reactions, and you know, it's a little different than
Speaker 1: anything I had done before. But once you get into
Speaker 1: and you're like, Okay, now I know what's what we're
Speaker 1: looking for. Well, we just explored things and and tried
Speaker 1: and you know, especially even with the theme song and
Speaker 1: the main title, different things. Oh my god, we had
Speaker 1: he sent out like to the cast, he maybe sent
Speaker 1: to you, like, hey, give me five songs that you
Speaker 1: guys look. So I was building different main titles, you know,
Speaker 1: twenty we did like twenty five different songs. Here was
Speaker 1: a song here, there was a song here. John Krasinski
Speaker 1: had a song from Sloan that was like this is great,
Speaker 1: um and uh. And I'd have to cut the picture
Speaker 1: though too. And it wasn't just like all right, I'll
Speaker 1: just lay the song in. So I was like cutting
Speaker 1: multiple versions of picture. But ultimately we went with you know,
Speaker 1: I think Jay Ferguson was the composer and we just
Speaker 1: his version. That was the one we used from the beginning.
Speaker 1: Were you planning on using the footage that John Krasinski shot?
Speaker 1: There was no plan, Like stuff came in and it
Speaker 1: was like, okay, I'll use this and use that, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, we just there were all kinds of things.
Speaker 1: So it was like circling stuff the water cooler. You know.
Speaker 1: We were just just trying things like to make a
Speaker 1: main title and things that would hit, and you know,
Speaker 1: it was hit with the music. So when the song
Speaker 1: when the rhythm of the song was different, it had
Speaker 1: to be totally recut. When we had different songs, and
Speaker 1: and and you know, there were different versions of the
Speaker 1: main title. There's a longer version. I think for the
Speaker 1: super Bowl episode we did a longer version of the song.
Speaker 1: We did shorter versions, you know, towards the end we
Speaker 1: would get you know, do really short versions because we
Speaker 1: needed more time for show. There's also a version and
Speaker 1: maybe it was the Super Bowl where there was just
Speaker 1: more of the cast, and then towards the after Steve left,
Speaker 1: also it was we have okay, here's a shot of
Speaker 1: Phillis and Stanley, here's a shot of Kevin and Angela
Speaker 1: and Oscar. You know, so we would we would get
Speaker 1: more more people into the main title. Randall talked about
Speaker 1: there were rules that they had was sort of dictated,
Speaker 1: you know, by Ken's original vision and by Greg that
Speaker 1: they would not shoot a shot that was imposed posible
Speaker 1: to get as a documentary. Like if we came up
Speaker 1: to a house and they knocked on the door, there
Speaker 1: would not be a camera inside the house shooting out
Speaker 1: because the crew wouldn't have if we've just arrived there,
Speaker 1: there would be no camera from inside, right. But more
Speaker 1: than that, if Michael is standing at his office door
Speaker 1: and we are shooting Michael, we can't play a camera
Speaker 1: directly behind Michael because we would then shoot that cameraman
Speaker 1: in reality. Right. So we were bound by the traditional
Speaker 1: rules of documentary that everything was happening in the exact moment.
Speaker 1: And I remember Randall and Matt fighting directors who were
Speaker 1: wanting the cameras to be placed you on a second
Speaker 1: pass or whatever, and them saying, no, we can't be
Speaker 1: there because we would have just filmed ourselves, right. And
Speaker 1: that's and that's the thing. And it's like you have
Speaker 1: to give time, at least even in editing, you have
Speaker 1: to give time to be like, well, this camera could
Speaker 1: have moved now and then been here, you know. I
Speaker 1: remember we're arguing with Claire Scanlon, who was another editor
Speaker 1: once because she was doing something. She's like DONNAA and
Speaker 1: and Greg's like, no, you can't, and there are not
Speaker 1: seven cameras in the room, so you have to choose
Speaker 1: your angles and limbs. You know. They were just I
Speaker 1: can't even remember what the exact situation was, but they
Speaker 1: were like, yeah, no, and she was like, Dave, do
Speaker 1: you do this, I said, yeah, yeah, this is what
Speaker 1: I follow wed. You know, you have to kind of
Speaker 1: do this thing. But we yeah, I mean when you
Speaker 1: watch the cameras and you watch the editing, you'll see,
Speaker 1: for the most part, we do follow these these rules.
Speaker 1: And there aren't you know, these shots in typical coverage
Speaker 1: that you would see on another show. Right. Do you
Speaker 1: did you work with the DP or camera guys at
Speaker 1: all about this or was this just sort of like understood,
Speaker 1: like everything just kind of works because you both got it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we got it. I mean we would see what they
Speaker 1: would do and be like, okay, this is you know,
Speaker 1: and there will be some communication like they would ask, hey,
Speaker 1: how's this working or how's this and you know the
Speaker 1: push in when we would you know, someone would say
Speaker 1: something and you know, we started doing like these slight
Speaker 1: pushings and it got fun. But sometimes I felt like
Speaker 1: the show it would go a little too much like this,
Speaker 1: and I said, oh, we're we're pushing in. We're missing
Speaker 1: I think there was something once with you where you
Speaker 1: were saying something and Angela was next to you, and
Speaker 1: Angela had a this sour look. The camera pushed in
Speaker 1: so much on you, and in a few of the
Speaker 1: takes you couldn't see her, like she got framed out,
Speaker 1: and it was like you have to kind of you know,
Speaker 1: I said, let's let's be aware and and so easy
Speaker 1: on that. But for the most part, no, I mean
Speaker 1: the camera, the DP and the camera work Matt Randall Sarah,
Speaker 1: I mean, they were amazing what they would get and
Speaker 1: the footage that we would we would get in there,
Speaker 1: and you know, sometimes it was just a lot of
Speaker 1: footage and it was like, all right, how do we
Speaker 1: you know, mind through this and putting the puzzle together?
Speaker 1: How do we get from this coverage to this coverage
Speaker 1: and back? And you know, when you are shooting multiple takes,
Speaker 1: obviously you know, having characters match and what they're doing
Speaker 1: and so it was always fun, but sometimes it was hard.
Speaker 1: It's interesting. So Claire came from reality. Claire came from
Speaker 1: reality and documentaries, documentaries and I think she may have
Speaker 1: done I mean, don't I think she had done some scripted.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how much comedy. And she came Actually
Speaker 1: it was like season it was into season four she
Speaker 1: came in. Uh, Dean Holland was leaving. So I so
Speaker 1: after after season one we got picked up for six
Speaker 1: episodes of season two, so it was just me doing that,
Speaker 1: and I said, if we get picked up for more,
Speaker 1: we need to get a second editor, and so we
Speaker 1: brought in Dean Holland, who was someone who I had
Speaker 1: worked with before, so it was me and him doing
Speaker 1: the episodes after that, and then he was leaving with
Speaker 1: Mike Sure to go do Parks and Wreck, at which
Speaker 1: point I said, Okay, we need to bring in some editors,
Speaker 1: and so we brought in Stu Bass again and Claire
Speaker 1: Scanlin and Claire just I mean, she hit it out
Speaker 1: of the park right away. I mean she just got
Speaker 1: it great, great sensibility. And then season the next season
Speaker 1: was just me and Claire, like we were, we were
Speaker 1: editing together and alternating and stuff, and uh yeah, she
Speaker 1: was great. She just got it. A team player too.
Speaker 1: I'd help her out with stuff, She'd helped me out.
Speaker 1: I mean just just yeah, just great. Were there things
Speaker 1: that you felt like, either with you or Dean or
Speaker 1: you and Claire you can decide or maybe it was
Speaker 1: the same or different. Were there specific strengths that you
Speaker 1: had that you felt like, maybe you would take over
Speaker 1: this moment of an episode, even if it was hers
Speaker 1: or vice versa. Do you remember anything like that? No,
Speaker 1: I mean I will tell you something funny about the finale,
Speaker 1: but no, there was never anything like that. I mean
Speaker 1: we would just look at each other stuff like she
Speaker 1: would show me her that I'd give her some feedback
Speaker 1: or notes. I'd be like, try this, and she would
Speaker 1: look at mine and say, hey, maybe if you do this,
Speaker 1: Like it was pretty open. It was great having Claire.
Speaker 1: She did bring like a sensibility and I think just
Speaker 1: being a female, like there were things that just as
Speaker 1: a male, like oh, I'm I'm missing you know, this
Speaker 1: kind of component, especially with some of the relationship stuff
Speaker 1: that she had, I think a more sensitive a sense about.
Speaker 1: But I'll say with the finale was interesting because I
Speaker 1: think I edited, or maybe Claire edited the first half
Speaker 1: of the show and I edited the second half, and
Speaker 1: the first half was like more I think, more comedy stuff.
Speaker 1: In the second half was like more poignant stuff. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to remember how we did. And and at some
Speaker 1: point Greg watched the cut and we thought it was great.
Speaker 1: It was long and it was great, and then he's like,
Speaker 1: all right, I want you guys to switch and now
Speaker 1: I want Claire to do this half and you do
Speaker 1: this in and we were like, that's insane, that's he
Speaker 1: was brilliant. I mean it made sense, like suddenly now
Speaker 1: I was reworking some of her scenes, she was reworking
Speaker 1: some of mine. If you remember, at the end, we
Speaker 1: had this whole thing with the plant with planty, you know, yes,
Speaker 1: Claire brought up planty. Yeah, and it was the whole
Speaker 1: thing with planting. You know, she had cut it out
Speaker 1: and Greg said, no, no, you can't. You can't lose Planty.
Speaker 1: We lost planning. I mean ultimately Greg was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: like it's got to go. And that's you know, and
Speaker 1: Greg and I mean, what a brilliant script. Though. The
Speaker 1: finale was so great, so satisfying, I think as a
Speaker 1: series ender, you know, just just everything, all the things
Speaker 1: that were hit in there. You know, everybody had their
Speaker 1: their moments. It was definitely one of those things where
Speaker 1: where he had a switch. I'd have to I'm trying
Speaker 1: to remember who did who did what, But I remember
Speaker 1: like at the end, I was instrumental with the end
Speaker 1: to some degree. I ended up shooting the building, the
Speaker 1: last shot you see of the dunder Mifflin building. I
Speaker 1: went out with my little cannon point and shoot, and
Speaker 1: I shot the building and because then we said, oh,
Speaker 1: we'll do this with Pam, she takes the painting away.
Speaker 1: But at the end we go into the painting because
Speaker 1: we needed like this just nice poignant ending. I go,
Speaker 1: I got it. I got it, and we go into
Speaker 1: the painting and it dissolves into the building and that's
Speaker 1: the last shot, you see. And so I shot this building.
Speaker 1: And then even Matt so own r d P said
Speaker 1: I'll shoot it also with our cameras we'll see you know,
Speaker 1: and he shot it and it looked nice too. But
Speaker 1: for some reason, like I got this lighting and or
Speaker 1: Greg just he gets used to what he sees and
Speaker 1: he's like, no, I like this one. And that was it.
Speaker 1: That was the last shot. It dissolves from the painting
Speaker 1: into this into the building. So how much after we
Speaker 1: shot the finale did you do that? It was probably
Speaker 1: a month and a half. Listen. We didn't finish the
Speaker 1: show until the morning of I mean we were at
Speaker 1: the mix till one in the morning, and at midnight,
Speaker 1: I go, hey, Greg, I just realized the end titles
Speaker 1: are going to run over the most poignant moments of
Speaker 1: the show. And he goes fuck. Howard had a call NBC.
Speaker 1: It was midnight and we had a figure and you know,
Speaker 1: ultimately like they ran a promo or something, you know,
Speaker 1: because the week before I directed the one, the week
Speaker 1: before the ARM, the penultimate one, the titles ran underneath
Speaker 1: We had a promo for the finale, I think that
Speaker 1: came after ARM and so the credits just ran underneath
Speaker 1: that promo. But here we are. It was like what
Speaker 1: do we you know, what do we do? Because Greg
Speaker 1: is like, we can't make it. You know, there's no
Speaker 1: tag for the first run, and we didn't think about,
Speaker 1: like we just it's just not something that would come
Speaker 1: up in your head because normally we would run it
Speaker 1: under you know, a tag or something. But in this,
Speaker 1: the end of this, it just ends. And so we
Speaker 1: got clearance to get a promo or something fifteen seconds,
Speaker 1: twenty seconds and ran the credits under that. And then
Speaker 1: in the re airs we pulled out Michael and Dwight
Speaker 1: dancing to Rosalita at the wedding and that became the tag.
Speaker 1: So it runs under that when you see it in syndication,
Speaker 1: that's where the end of credits now run. That moved
Speaker 1: to the end. Interesting I was the last guy there,
Speaker 1: so I have video footage of It's sad when they
Speaker 1: were tearing down the sets, like I was the only
Speaker 1: when they're editing, like everybody else was gone, Like Greg
Speaker 1: wasn't even there, Like I'm editing. I was doing whatever,
Speaker 1: like the syndication cuts or you know, for season nine
Speaker 1: and the DVD stuff for that, and and then I
Speaker 1: went through I I filmed, I did a walk through
Speaker 1: of the sets. It's kind of sad, but I have
Speaker 1: this foot has no one seen it. At some point
Speaker 1: if we do another collective you know, DVD or retrospective
Speaker 1: or something, I have this footage to offer. Wow. So, well,
Speaker 1: you've worked in multi camp shows and you know, the
Speaker 1: office not having any sort of laugh track or music
Speaker 1: underneath underscoring stuff. Did that make your job harder? I
Speaker 1: had done single camera also, I did I kud a
Speaker 1: show called Andy Richter Controls the Universe. Was their music
Speaker 1: under that there was? And I did another show called
Speaker 1: The O'Keefe. Yeah, I mean everything had had music, um,
Speaker 1: but it made it easier not to have to or
Speaker 1: things to not have to, you know, because especially I've
Speaker 1: worked on show since like the Mindy Project and even
Speaker 1: now on on a space force, you know, where like
Speaker 1: we have to you spend a lot of time hunting
Speaker 1: for like temp cues and things like that before the
Speaker 1: composer comes in and does their thing. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean the office just never needed it, like we didn't,
Speaker 1: you know. And there were a couple of times where
Speaker 1: we slip things in because they it felt like, okay,
Speaker 1: the documentarian, Like at the end of Dinner Party, we
Speaker 1: play Hunter's song, and uh, it's because the document you
Speaker 1: can logically say the documentarian would have taken it and
Speaker 1: played it like it's their choice. Dinner Party is one
Speaker 1: that I wanted to talk to you about. You cut that, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and that was certainly one of probably the top two
Speaker 1: episodes that utilized the cringe comedy factor more than anything else.
Speaker 1: Did you respond to that kind of episode? I yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it was a different episode, and just that
Speaker 1: they're at this house and you're seeing Michael acting, you know,
Speaker 1: in a different way than he acts so much, you know,
Speaker 1: more like just an elevated way of him acting than
Speaker 1: at work. He's so happy to have everybody there, but
Speaker 1: it's also so uncomfortable, you know. Um, and I love
Speaker 1: the way he liked it, doesn't he like trick Jim
Speaker 1: and Pam to come yes and uh yeah, I love
Speaker 1: the comedy. I had one I pitched one joke that
Speaker 1: made it in where Michael goes and looks at his
Speaker 1: TV and it's you know, it's really small and it's
Speaker 1: hanging on the wall and we were sitting I was
Speaker 1: sitting in Video Village with Gene and Lee the writers,
Speaker 1: and I go he should say, uh, man, I love this.
Speaker 1: I could just stand here and watch TV all day.
Speaker 1: And Jean like yes, and he ran out and he
Speaker 1: told Paul some people's favorite. Yeah. So I was like,
Speaker 1: and I think it made it in. Like I was
Speaker 1: so happy he made it, like in one of it
Speaker 1: was like Jeff's or something or one of those quotes,
Speaker 1: but that was my my quote because it was like,
Speaker 1: I he just stood there, and I was like, that's
Speaker 1: what's funny. He's like that, not that he would be
Speaker 1: sitting down relaxing, that he could be I could just
Speaker 1: stand here. It's funny because brought up that moment as
Speaker 1: one of the times he could not laugh and specifically
Speaker 1: Steve saying something like, oh and it can tilt and
Speaker 1: it moves just and just kind of bangs the walls
Speaker 1: just the slightest amount were wires hanging down. I mean
Speaker 1: that scene. We have tons of bloopers, like they could
Speaker 1: not keep it together that episode. They could not keep
Speaker 1: it together. But that that scene with the TV and
Speaker 1: you can just see the wires and John be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I see the you know, and you're gonna get the
Speaker 1: wires or no, you know, like whatever. He was just
Speaker 1: talking because it was like it just looks so unprofessionally
Speaker 1: set up, you know, Oh my god. And I think
Speaker 1: we were on strike. The writers were on strike when
Speaker 1: that episode started. Yeah, the timeline to refresh your memory
Speaker 1: is Dinner Party was the episode that was completed before
Speaker 1: the strike, before the stri that was written and we
Speaker 1: could have shot it. And we showed up for work
Speaker 1: on that first day of shooting and I believe they
Speaker 1: got a couple of talking heads in and Steve said
Speaker 1: I'm not coming in and that was and that was it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what do you remember about that time? I just was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is that's what we do. Listen. I'm a union guy.
Speaker 1: I'm in the most Picture Editors Guild in the d
Speaker 1: g A. So I if the writers, you know, if
Speaker 1: there's a strike. You know, I support my my brothers
Speaker 1: and sisters and the other unions. I think I marched
Speaker 1: a couple of days more and more just to see people,
Speaker 1: you know, because it was like three or four months.
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I was hanging out with Mindy
Speaker 1: and uh you know, Brent and Paul and you know,
Speaker 1: just just marching. What was funny too, was like I
Speaker 1: was going to direct that season. This was season uh four,
Speaker 1: So I was going to direct that season. And I
Speaker 1: remember when we came back, Kent said, I don't know,
Speaker 1: you know, what promises were made, and I said it's okay.
Speaker 1: Let's just because they didn't know how many episodes would
Speaker 1: be left, and you know, and I was like, it's okay,
Speaker 1: we just want to get back to work. I'll direct.
Speaker 1: I'll get my first one at some point. I'm not worried.
Speaker 1: And I got mine, you know. I season five. Early
Speaker 1: on in season five was when I got my my
Speaker 1: first episode to direct. And was that your first directing?
Speaker 1: That was my first directing was employee transfer of any television,
Speaker 1: of any television. Yeah, and I had you know, I
Speaker 1: had a huge Halloween. You know, we had the Halloween opening.
Speaker 1: You were Batman, you were the joker. Yeah, there were
Speaker 1: three jokers. So I had this nice, you know, this
Speaker 1: great fun thing with the costumes, and then uh, and
Speaker 1: then I had three stories. I had Jim and Pam,
Speaker 1: Pam meeting Jim's brothers for the first time. I had
Speaker 1: Dwight coming in wearing Cornell paraphernalia and pissing off Andy.
Speaker 1: And then I had Michael Holly and Darryl draw iving
Speaker 1: and you know, breaking up soode and it was funny.
Speaker 1: I showed up was my first day of filming, I
Speaker 1: think was that and I was so I mean, I
Speaker 1: had so much anxiety that night before. And I show
Speaker 1: up and I go to Crew Parking and I'm on
Speaker 1: the bus with the extras. You know, we're sitting, everyone's talking,
Speaker 1: they're excited, and they're like oh no, no no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no, and then like and they're like, oh, You'm
Speaker 1: like I'm the director, and like the extras like, you know,
Speaker 1: their faces just kind of dropped. But I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: you know, I'm because I'm a regular guy. I just
Speaker 1: I don't know. They tell me. And then I get there, like,
Speaker 1: oh no, you can park here. You don't have to
Speaker 1: be at base camp. You could be here as I
Speaker 1: don't know, I get the call sheet. This was it.
Speaker 1: No one specifically told me where to park, and but
Speaker 1: it was so great. I mean, everybody was so supportive,
Speaker 1: the cast, the crew. I have. You know, I have
Speaker 1: a script Kim Ferry from Harry I think got everybody
Speaker 1: to sign a script for me. So it's got cast
Speaker 1: and crew and it it really means a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well what did that mean for you to be given
Speaker 1: that opportunity by Greg? Oh? I mean him at the
Speaker 1: world to be trusted. Uh listen. In season one, I
Speaker 1: had started kind of helping out Season one. He did
Speaker 1: the basketball episode was the first thing he had directed,
Speaker 1: and he's like, I want you on set with me.
Speaker 1: So I would be there and sometimes he'd be back
Speaker 1: with video village and he's like, you yell cut when
Speaker 1: we got it, and you know, I'm nervous, but I
Speaker 1: would yell cut sometimes. And I designed a couple of
Speaker 1: the shots just discussing stuff with him, or was like, hey,
Speaker 1: I think if we do that. You know, we needed
Speaker 1: like just more comedy bits, single things to cut two
Speaker 1: and then cut more back to the story. And and
Speaker 1: I remember the one bit that I did was where
Speaker 1: Michael's like, Jim, Jim, Jim, give me the ball, give
Speaker 1: me the ball, and he looks away and Jim throws
Speaker 1: it and it's like, you know, rockets past him and
Speaker 1: Jim my bad. You know that that that kind of
Speaker 1: thing Um and I had. Also one of the things
Speaker 1: I had done was sometimes, you know, if we were
Speaker 1: missing a shot or something, I might say, oh, we
Speaker 1: can just do you know in editing, we we would
Speaker 1: and that's a different things like rewriting and saying, hey,
Speaker 1: if we just get a talking head here, we can
Speaker 1: cut all of this out time wise and just come
Speaker 1: in here. Claire talked about, Yeah, one of the things
Speaker 1: I did was the episode fun Run where Um, Michael
Speaker 1: drives in and he hits so the first time, you know,
Speaker 1: when we got the footage originally he came in and
Speaker 1: he stopped short, and we panned to the right, you know,
Speaker 1: off him, like a quick whip pant and you would
Speaker 1: just see Meredith laying there in the street and it
Speaker 1: would win back and I said, Greg, you have to
Speaker 1: come see this. Like I said, it doesn't look like
Speaker 1: he hit her. It looks like he stopped short and
Speaker 1: found her just lying like as if she's passed out.
Speaker 1: And so we're talking about reshoots and stuff, and I said,
Speaker 1: I think I think we could do something where we
Speaker 1: wouldn't even need Steve, like I can use his footage.
Speaker 1: And so I have a version with our line producer
Speaker 1: Ken Sipborneck where I said, we do this and Dan Beals,
Speaker 1: who was a p A. He was, he sat there
Speaker 1: on the steering wheel, he had his sleeve. We did
Speaker 1: a whip I had kent. We kind of threw him
Speaker 1: against the windshield and then he would he bounced off
Speaker 1: and rolled off, and then we whipped back and I
Speaker 1: edited this. So I had a version with with Michael
Speaker 1: driving whipped off. You saw ken't hit the windshield. He
Speaker 1: came off, whipped back to Michael and Michael like looking,
Speaker 1: you know, shocked, and I'm like, all right, let's do it.
Speaker 1: So then I was there, you know with the I
Speaker 1: guess second unit with UH with Kate Flannery, and I
Speaker 1: would kind of slam her, you know, slam her onto
Speaker 1: the windshield, so she would kind of fall hit the
Speaker 1: windshield and she would fall off and land on pads.
Speaker 1: And uh, she says, because I got on the Tonight
Speaker 1: Show or one of these talks because of that, she
Speaker 1: got more popular because she got hit by Michael's car.
Speaker 1: You know, it was one of one of those things.
Speaker 1: So so you know, it was great to finally be
Speaker 1: given the opportunity to say, Hey, I really want to direct,
Speaker 1: give me a shot. And I was happy. Like everybody,
Speaker 1: the response to employee transfer was was really positive. So
Speaker 1: that was really rewarding to yah, Um, what do you
Speaker 1: think it is about you and Greg's relationship that makes
Speaker 1: it work so well and that you've continued to work
Speaker 1: on other things with him after I think, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's definitely a trust like he I think he you know,
Speaker 1: he likes what I do. He likes the speed that
Speaker 1: I'm able to do it. He knows. I'm talking to Mindy.
Speaker 1: I got dinner. Mindy and my girlfriend and I had
Speaker 1: dinner recently and Mindy said something she goes. Greg said
Speaker 1: this about Dave. She goes, Dave's never political when it
Speaker 1: comes to editing and making a show. Like, I'm not
Speaker 1: sitting there. I never even occurred to me to be like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: this writer wrote this joke, I'm gonna put this in,
Speaker 1: or this one did this. I mean to me, I
Speaker 1: just was doing what I thought, Hey, this is what
Speaker 1: I think is funnier. This is what I think is
Speaker 1: the best. So I think Greg appreciates that that. I'm
Speaker 1: just like, Dave is just gonna do what's funniest. If
Speaker 1: it's an actor ad lib that's funnier than the scripted line,
Speaker 1: that's what's gonna Dave's gonna put in, and in Greg's.
Speaker 1: In fairness to Greg, Greg will go with that as well. Listen,
Speaker 1: I've unlocked shows. We had a show Lice Claire finished
Speaker 1: it with Greg and they cut out the last scene
Speaker 1: like they ended it with Meredith saying, hey, let's go
Speaker 1: get a drink. And I said, you cut out the
Speaker 1: scene of them in the bar and the and Greg's
Speaker 1: like yeah, he goes, did you miss it? I go yeah,
Speaker 1: And this is like mixed, it's ready to be delivered,
Speaker 1: you know. And uh, Greg goes, all right, we'll do
Speaker 1: a version of what you want and let me look
Speaker 1: at it, you know, but trying don't have don't have
Speaker 1: this stuff because I didn't like this in that conversation.
Speaker 1: At the end, I'm like, yeah, no problem, I'll take
Speaker 1: out that stuff and I'll find some trims. It's not
Speaker 1: too disruptive. In the rest of the show. It's like, okay,
Speaker 1: and that was it, and I re so I changed
Speaker 1: the episode. We remixed. I mean, it was just it was,
Speaker 1: you know, we just had to do a fix. We
Speaker 1: had a picture fix in this and I remember Kate
Speaker 1: came up, was really happy. She came to the edic
Speaker 1: She's like, oh my god, like and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I missed that scene. I didn't think. I think we
Speaker 1: need that scene. It's really nice. And the writer, the
Speaker 1: writer was home sick and she gets a DVD delivered
Speaker 1: and she's like, what's this The show already locked, Like
Speaker 1: what is it? Like? She didn't know that I had
Speaker 1: unlocked and relocked it. So she was so excited because
Speaker 1: this was the scene that she wanted. Also, you know,
Speaker 1: it was a staff writer and she was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god. But I think that all goes to you know,
Speaker 1: with Greg knows like I will always fight for what's best.
Speaker 1: I will work crazy hours, and you know he will
Speaker 1: always get my honest and best opinion. I'm never at
Speaker 1: a point where I'm like I don't care like that,
Speaker 1: never had. I ate once in a while say that,
Speaker 1: But the truth is it's not It's not true. And
Speaker 1: I'll think about it, and I'll think about edits and
Speaker 1: I will, you know, get up early in the morning
Speaker 1: to oh, I want to tweak this and fix this
Speaker 1: and how can I make this better? And you know,
Speaker 1: there are times where I've argued with him on stuff.
Speaker 1: I go, we can why would we do this? Da
Speaker 1: da da da, And he'll make a point. I'll be like, okay,
Speaker 1: I that makes sense, Like sometimes I just need that
Speaker 1: or I need to know why. And there were other
Speaker 1: moments where we had some long stuff. I remember being
Speaker 1: with Jen Salada and there was a scene where Roy
Speaker 1: is being nice to Pam and he gets her out
Speaker 1: of a meeting and he helps her with her car
Speaker 1: or something, and they're walking in the parking lot and
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, we get it. And Jen wanted longer
Speaker 1: and longer and longer. And I remember being in the
Speaker 1: bag like a little shit there, you know, with Greg
Speaker 1: and I go like this, I'm sitting there in front
Speaker 1: of my monitor and I hold up my hand like this.
Speaker 1: He goes, what are you doing? I go, this is
Speaker 1: me at home changing the channel, and he goes, all right,
Speaker 1: make it ten seconds. And then you know, so like
Speaker 1: we got it. We go short because it wasn't like
Speaker 1: this is just them walking. It's like we I want
Speaker 1: to get back now to the other stuff. Like we
Speaker 1: get it, they're walking. There's enough of a moment of them.
Speaker 1: It's not like it was short. But I didn't need
Speaker 1: twenty seconds of that, you know, things like that. So there,
Speaker 1: you know he channel. Yeah, but I think Greg appreciates it,
Speaker 1: you know, because I'm like, I'm honest, why did people
Speaker 1: respond to the Jim Pam story so much? Oh? I mean,
Speaker 1: she's adorable. I mean that's your perspective, that's the that's
Speaker 1: my perspective. He's I mean, he is a super sweet
Speaker 1: guy and he's sensitive and he's funny, and you know,
Speaker 1: he's good looking. But she's adorable and and she's being
Speaker 1: treated terribly by Roy and it's like you want something
Speaker 1: better for her. And that's it. That's what it all
Speaker 1: comes down to. I think that's it. You know that,
Speaker 1: and here's this guy that would be perfect for her
Speaker 1: and they would be happy, and you just want to
Speaker 1: see that. Yeah. I think that a lot of it
Speaker 1: has to do also with the editing work that you
Speaker 1: guys did and the way the writers wrote the story, right,
Speaker 1: you couldn't get tired of them because there would be
Speaker 1: whole episodes where nothing would happen between them, So it
Speaker 1: just naturally happened slow. Um. I felt like that gave
Speaker 1: it room to breathe and ultimately brought people into that
Speaker 1: story because not only were they dying for them to
Speaker 1: get together, they were they were dying to see more
Speaker 1: of them, and they were intentionally withheld from that. Do
Speaker 1: you think that's true. Oh yeah, yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: think definitely that it's It was the center of the show,
Speaker 1: but off center. Do you know what I mean? It
Speaker 1: wasn't it would come in and and then go, you know,
Speaker 1: back off a bit. It was I mean, that's not
Speaker 1: The show has many components, so it was like like
Speaker 1: an ensemble. It was like here's one element of the show.
Speaker 1: Here's another element, here's another element, here's another element. So
Speaker 1: it wasn't like, hey, here's just a show about you know,
Speaker 1: two people. I mean, look, they didn't. We We played it.
Speaker 1: We timed everything nice too. I think that there was
Speaker 1: a certain pacing to their relationship. I don't know if
Speaker 1: anybody talks you about Casino Night, Yes, there was a
Speaker 1: huge discussion. They talked about the huge discussion. Yes, that's
Speaker 1: one of the things that I wanted to get into
Speaker 1: with you because I was in the room where the
Speaker 1: huge discussions. Yes, let's have let's talk about the huge discussion. Now,
Speaker 1: which scene in Casino Night is this when Jim Jim
Speaker 1: professes his love or the kiss when he professes his
Speaker 1: love is? Uh? Originally, like, the concept was we would
Speaker 1: just see the aftermath of it, and there was a
Speaker 1: huge discussion about no, no, no, we should see you know,
Speaker 1: and and it was Greg and Ken the actors were
Speaker 1: there and stuff, and it was like, yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: cool to do something as a documentary to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're just capturing the moment after. But there's something unsatisfying,
Speaker 1: I think for an audience member to not see a
Speaker 1: piece of this. And uh, I think we made the
Speaker 1: right choice in letting them have a conversation. And you
Speaker 1: think it's and you think that's it, Like, you know,
Speaker 1: he says I'm in love with you and she's like
Speaker 1: I can't, and then you think that's you know, he's like,
Speaker 1: I just don't want to be friends, you know, and
Speaker 1: that's it, and you think, okay, we're done. And then
Speaker 1: at the end, what a what an ending? I mean
Speaker 1: you talk about a cliffhang or what a what an
Speaker 1: ending that he comes in and what a great kiss too,
Speaker 1: And I mean kudos to the actors because it's you know,
Speaker 1: even in our small world on the set, like there
Speaker 1: just was a sense of pressure of like like here's
Speaker 1: a big moment that we're dealing with, and they just
Speaker 1: they just fucking awesome, you know, and it's such a
Speaker 1: great kiss and what he does and what she does,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's just and then that we stop
Speaker 1: and again it's a timing thing of them. It's after
Speaker 1: and they look at each other and then boom we
Speaker 1: go to black. You know I can see, yeah, like
Speaker 1: the timing of it, yeah, because it's that moment of
Speaker 1: like where they look at each other after like what now,
Speaker 1: and then we go to black. And then the next season,
Speaker 1: Greg he had that opening. Man, everything gets slowly revere.
Speaker 1: You see this aspect, this aspect, and you see Pam
Speaker 1: doesn't have a ring, Jim is in the now a
Speaker 1: different location and it's like, well, what happened? And then
Speaker 1: we find out, right, Um, did you shoot two versions
Speaker 1: of Casino Night or what did the discussion in that
Speaker 1: scenario happened beforehand? Did you cut that multiple ways? No?
Speaker 1: We just we shot it the way that ended up air,
Speaker 1: and we just did version. I mean you could have
Speaker 1: edited I guess a certain way and and seen it
Speaker 1: like the aftermath. But that point the decision was, yeah
Speaker 1: it was and you saw it and you were like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: we want to see this well I and we had
Speaker 1: other discussions like that on other episodes. The proposal, I
Speaker 1: don't know if Greg this this was I was moving
Speaker 1: right into you. No, no, literally right now. I mean,
Speaker 1: um so what I was told and reminded about was yes,
Speaker 1: the proposal the great h sound or no? Sound great
Speaker 1: it because it was written in a way, you know,
Speaker 1: the production aspects of that where we built this on
Speaker 1: a huge parking lot and we had trucks team we
Speaker 1: oil just doing figure eights to make it look like
Speaker 1: they're passing, you know, so they have enough room like
Speaker 1: cars passing driving by, and uh, Jim and Pam, you know,
Speaker 1: the original concept was like that we couldn't hear them.
Speaker 1: We would just see it, and then we had a
Speaker 1: version where you would hear it, and ultimately, uh, Greg
Speaker 1: went with the version where you can't hear them and
Speaker 1: then he changed his mind that morning that we were wearing.
Speaker 1: He's like, no, I've slept on it, and I want
Speaker 1: to put the one where they can hear them the
Speaker 1: morning that we're airing. Yeah, So then it was like
Speaker 1: I think I think it was like that morning he's like, okay,
Speaker 1: so we we did the one where there you can
Speaker 1: hear them, and I think, listen, I think both of
Speaker 1: them were great versions, but I think it's probably better
Speaker 1: to to hear. I mean, we waited so long for
Speaker 1: this moment, it was probably better to better to hear
Speaker 1: it and not just see it, because you didn't want
Speaker 1: any kind of confusion of like what happened? You know.
Speaker 1: I think that ultimately we made the right choice. But
Speaker 1: it I'll tell you this is they didn't destroy the
Speaker 1: one with the no sound, and when it was time
Speaker 1: to make the DVDs, they almost screwed up and had
Speaker 1: that one and and Jake Aust was our a P
Speaker 1: at the time, and he was like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: you know, like that almost got burned onto DVDs. They
Speaker 1: were doing QC and uh. He's like, I mean, some
Speaker 1: some heads rolled because it was like this needs to
Speaker 1: be labeled and not you know, either not here anywhere
Speaker 1: where it would get mixed in. You know. You know,
Speaker 1: I've had a number of people talk to me about
Speaker 1: that moment, and I will say to you, I remember
Speaker 1: very very specifically the way that looked. I remember him
Speaker 1: going down, I remember the rain, I remember the eighteen
Speaker 1: wheelers going by, right, and that's such a spy shot.
Speaker 1: I don't remember what he said. Yeah, I know what
Speaker 1: I mean, like how it was. It's almost irrelevant which choice,
Speaker 1: because like she's like, what are you doing? He says,
Speaker 1: I can't wait anymore. And it's not I mean, it's
Speaker 1: not about like the dialogue being like that sharp, but
Speaker 1: it is having that help of that audio que and
Speaker 1: and again there's plenty of other sound going on. It's
Speaker 1: not like, hey, this is as clear as day, but
Speaker 1: it was just at least you could could. But I
Speaker 1: understand what you're saying. Yeah, um, talk to me a
Speaker 1: little bit while we're on the subject of sound about
Speaker 1: Company Picnic and the decision to cut the sound when
Speaker 1: you find out that Pam is pregnant. Okay, Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that was That was the episode where I made my
Speaker 1: office acting ray bands guy um um, I believe it's
Speaker 1: guy wearing bands. Yeah. Uh, And it's funny. I have
Speaker 1: friends and put anytime it shows up. And I have
Speaker 1: friends now whose kids watch the show and they're like,
Speaker 1: that's Dave. You know they see me on there with
Speaker 1: my one line that you're acting was my acting debut
Speaker 1: on across any platform. That was your acting debut. Oh no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I have acted before, I have shown up. It's funny.
Speaker 1: I mean a Gilmore Girls episode and uh, I have
Speaker 1: one line. I go, sure, but it was such that
Speaker 1: sounds like a word, not a line. That's a line
Speaker 1: of work. A matter of fact, as when I edited
Speaker 1: that for my own acting reel, it was so short.
Speaker 1: I had to add like to still frames at the
Speaker 1: end because I'm on, you know, it's a gilmord Girls.
Speaker 1: They cut it so tight, and I'm like, but uh,
Speaker 1: but I remember. It was such an all star day
Speaker 1: for me, like just being on the set as an
Speaker 1: actor because I was an assistant editor. I had taken
Speaker 1: acting classes to become better as a director. So and
Speaker 1: then I was going out. I did I did voice work.
Speaker 1: I'm on a cartoon. I did like thirty four episodes
Speaker 1: of an animation show called Shinzo, which is a Japanese
Speaker 1: anime show and speak Japanese. I didn't speak Japanese. This
Speaker 1: was like the English American version. You're really good American versions. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so uh but uh but I would say this, So
Speaker 1: the Gilder girls, like Melissa McCarthy was there. Lauren Graham
Speaker 1: is in the scene, and I think she was dating
Speaker 1: Matthew Perry at the time, so he was there. It
Speaker 1: was on the Warner Brothers lot and he was there
Speaker 1: like just joking around. He did the slate a couple
Speaker 1: of times. So it was like really an really a
Speaker 1: fun day. But I have one one word. I go, sure, sure,
Speaker 1: why did they not hire me? Alright? So sorry company
Speaker 1: Picnic Company Picnic. The decision to not use sound there
Speaker 1: when she you find out she's pregnant, Yeah, you have
Speaker 1: to have sound. I don't think you really know what
Speaker 1: happens if there's no mention in Paul. I think it
Speaker 1: was like, no, I don't think you needed at all.
Speaker 1: There was one version where it wasn't in and I
Speaker 1: was like, if we don't have that, like no one
Speaker 1: pays attention to it, but it's in the back of
Speaker 1: your like we need to have some little crumb. But uh,
Speaker 1: I think they're acting just played it like you knew
Speaker 1: right away from their acting what what had happened. And
Speaker 1: they never go back. You know, it's such a sweet moment.
Speaker 1: Pam is like nodding and Jim is like, you know,
Speaker 1: oh my god. He gives her a big hug and uh,
Speaker 1: and I think it's this joyous surprise for the audience.
Speaker 1: And they never go back to the game. They never
Speaker 1: go back to the volleyball game or anything. Do you
Speaker 1: have a favorite episode? Um, I have a few favorites,
Speaker 1: and there's something that I haven't cut. I love Employee
Speaker 1: Transfer because it was my first. I love ARM because
Speaker 1: it was my last, and I had so many great
Speaker 1: things to do in there. I had. I have Darryl
Speaker 1: dancing with everybody. Jim plays this video for Pam and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it was so sweet. I'm the voice of
Speaker 1: the documentary, you know, things like that, and uh, Dwight
Speaker 1: gets to propose to Angela and he cuts her off,
Speaker 1: and and you know, there's all this stuff with the
Speaker 1: with the kids. So I mean, I love I love
Speaker 1: that episode, but uh, I love the finale. The finale
Speaker 1: is one of my favorites. I love the negotiation. I
Speaker 1: just think like that, you know, is an episode. Mike
Speaker 1: Schure wrote that one, and that to me is like
Speaker 1: an like you could show that in a screenwriting class
Speaker 1: and be like, look at this, Like it starts out
Speaker 1: here and then there's a twist, and it goes here,
Speaker 1: and then there's a twist and again, you know, and
Speaker 1: it's just so funny, like he and it's just the
Speaker 1: basic premises Michael wears he buys a woman's suit and
Speaker 1: doesn't realize it and where that ends up going. You know. Um,
Speaker 1: I love Booze Cruise and I didn't edit Booze Cruise.
Speaker 1: I I love Michael dancing that he does a motivation dance,
Speaker 1: and I love that as we call it, like the
Speaker 1: seconds of silence, seconds of silence outside with Jim and Pam.
Speaker 1: Well even talking before about the specific moment of the
Speaker 1: end of Casino Night, I think my overwhelming memory of
Speaker 1: you is you're an incredible artist and really know your job,
Speaker 1: but you are also so excited. I mean to say
Speaker 1: that you were a fan. I mean I call myself
Speaker 1: a fan of the show right like I was. I
Speaker 1: thought The Office was an excellent show. I'm a fan
Speaker 1: of that show regardless of the fact I worked on it,
Speaker 1: and I felt like for you, you were the same way,
Speaker 1: Like you were excited by a great moment that the
Speaker 1: actors gave, like you were excited about something the cameras
Speaker 1: did that looked cool that you were able to put together,
Speaker 1: and yeah, that that spirit was pretty awesome. Well, it's
Speaker 1: funny we had a we had this environment and post
Speaker 1: because we would see things. We had a whole different
Speaker 1: you know, like people quote the show, right, but we
Speaker 1: would quote stuff and you guys, by the time we
Speaker 1: would to set, like three days later, I'd be like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is so funny. You guys don't
Speaker 1: even know what we're talking about, because at that point
Speaker 1: you've had like seven other pages of dialogue to memorize
Speaker 1: and things like that, you know. So it was like
Speaker 1: I'd be like, going, oh my god, what Steve. And
Speaker 1: I find myself like there are mannerisms that I do,
Speaker 1: Like there are things that people will say to Michael
Speaker 1: Scott and I'll be like, well, and you know, like
Speaker 1: and and I say that I do that. Even yesterday
Speaker 1: I said something to Greg and I'm like, I'm doing
Speaker 1: Steve Carrell. Like there was something where I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, like like doing these things. But I remember
Speaker 1: I used to call everybody by their character name, or
Speaker 1: at least like the writers, like Mindy. I'm sure you
Speaker 1: know people call you Kevin because they, you know, just
Speaker 1: out of like Kevin. But I used to like deliberately,
Speaker 1: like I got into this mindset where I had nicknames
Speaker 1: for Paul, Like I would call him tob larone, like
Speaker 1: things that Michael Scott didn't even call him. I would
Speaker 1: call make up nicknames for Toby, and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I was just a huge fan of all
Speaker 1: you guys. I mean just to I just I yeah,
Speaker 1: I love the show, and I was so glad to
Speaker 1: be working on stuff from season one, just these dark endings.
Speaker 1: Like people some people, you know, they say, oh they
Speaker 1: didn't like season one, or they like it later once
Speaker 1: they see where season two and three are, they can
Speaker 1: go back and they appreciate it more. I loved it
Speaker 1: out of the gate. I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this like it's a sitcom that doesn't end on it
Speaker 1: It's not tied up in a bow at the end
Speaker 1: of the episode, and like they all hate Michael at
Speaker 1: the end of the Healthcare I mean, Greg's favorite moment
Speaker 1: you know was I still have my vagina. Remember, you
Speaker 1: know a vagina is different from a uterus. I still
Speaker 1: have my vagina. I mean I remember, I remember for
Speaker 1: the rap party the hundred. Yeah we have, but we
Speaker 1: had the rap party, and so you know, we would
Speaker 1: make the gag rail and we show you know, we
Speaker 1: would put bloopers and we would show the crew. And
Speaker 1: then I did something different. I said, oh, I'm going
Speaker 1: to do a highlights of a hundred, and I did,
Speaker 1: and we did account from like episode one here just
Speaker 1: a quick line, just a quick thing to identify, and
Speaker 1: we got all the casts, like everybody had a had
Speaker 1: a moment. But it was like finding what is this
Speaker 1: kind of you know, something that just says, here's a
Speaker 1: line from here, Here's a line from here, Here's a
Speaker 1: moment from here, here's you know, Michael hitting Meredith with
Speaker 1: the car, here's you know, I mean, just these little things.
Speaker 1: And it was it's so and it's on the DVD.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just great to see like just this thing.
Speaker 1: And I remember everybody like just getting excited and lighting up,
Speaker 1: but like just at this kind of thing and what
Speaker 1: we had done, you know. Yeah, so it's crazy. So
Speaker 1: you won two Emmys. Won two Emmys on the Office
Speaker 1: for the job and for the finale. Yeah, I co
Speaker 1: won those with Dean Holland and I for the job
Speaker 1: in Claire Scanlon for the finale, Yeah, and to ace
Speaker 1: American Cinema Editor Awards as well. Um, you were the
Speaker 1: most honored department on the show. Ye, right, No actress one,
Speaker 1: two writers one. You know, the show one once. It's
Speaker 1: just interesting to me, you know, Well, surely what was
Speaker 1: really rewarding was the finale to be reward you know,
Speaker 1: because we had we were not the fresh new show
Speaker 1: at that point, so it was really rewarding to to
Speaker 1: win the finale. And like I said, we won the
Speaker 1: Emmy and the American Cinema Editor Award in case Eddie
Speaker 1: for that. Um. But but especially you know with the Emmy,
Speaker 1: I just think it was our peers. You know, you know,
Speaker 1: you have editors and so it's editors voting on editors.
Speaker 1: So I think there's they recognized what you were doing.
Speaker 1: I think they recognized it. And I think, listen, there's
Speaker 1: so much of it is like, oh what what is
Speaker 1: kind of hot and popular? You could be the best
Speaker 1: editor in the world if you're not working on you know,
Speaker 1: a show that has all these pieces that isn't in
Speaker 1: the zeitgeist to show you know, you're not going to
Speaker 1: get that recognition, you know. And so with with The Office, though,
Speaker 1: here was something that we were doing that was fresh
Speaker 1: and new and such a great script. And look, we
Speaker 1: lied to everybody too about Steve, and I remember Greg
Speaker 1: felt really bad about lying to people because he was
Speaker 1: lying to family and friends. And I was like, I
Speaker 1: remember writing something. I said, Greg, I said, listen, in
Speaker 1: today's day and age, everything gets spoiled. It's not like
Speaker 1: it used to be that you could have this surprise.
Speaker 1: I said, So this is what we're doing, is we're
Speaker 1: giving people something. Because we even had hit the footage
Speaker 1: of Steve transferred. We didn't have it done at Universal.
Speaker 1: We had it done secretly somewhere else. Did you know
Speaker 1: he was showing up to set that day? I knew
Speaker 1: that he was showing up, I think a day or
Speaker 1: two before somebody spilled the beans to me. But I've
Speaker 1: talked to a number of people who didn't know until
Speaker 1: the assistant director said Steve's in the makeup trailer. There
Speaker 1: were some people who did not know until until then.
Speaker 1: I'm so curious as to who from the cast didn't
Speaker 1: know that day because I knew, I mean because I
Speaker 1: came to set that day because I knew, Hey, he's
Speaker 1: coming at this time. So Claire and I went to set.
Speaker 1: So Steve agrees to come. It's a big secret. It's
Speaker 1: kept from the network. And so even after he shot
Speaker 1: his scenes, you took it somewhere else, so we get
Speaker 1: the footage transferred, like we get the video is transferred,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's it's basically it's taken on digitally
Speaker 1: and then it's put into the Aviot's It's like in
Speaker 1: files that are put into the Abbots. And normally we
Speaker 1: do all our stuff at Universal. On the Universal lot
Speaker 1: was where we would transfer and that's where we would mix.
Speaker 1: We did not. We took his scenes and we got
Speaker 1: them transferred somewhere else. And what you made them sign
Speaker 1: like non disclosure or they were friends or something or yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah little Timmy's basement, Like what do you mean you
Speaker 1: actually it was Eric Culjyn, who was our ap. His
Speaker 1: father worked at another level. It was level three. I mean,
Speaker 1: they do big shows and stuff like that. So we
Speaker 1: took it there and we had a transferred there like
Speaker 1: in a room where it was like, Okay, this is
Speaker 1: where it's gonna be. Transfer Like, we just didn't want
Speaker 1: We didn't want NBC execs to have access to the dailies,
Speaker 1: because they can there's a way, I think where they
Speaker 1: can access you know, the footage. They can look at
Speaker 1: dadlies and things like that. We didn't want that because
Speaker 1: we didn't want them ultimately to promo Steve Carrell returns
Speaker 1: because Steve didn't want that. And there was also as
Speaker 1: a surprise. It's like there's just enough footage of him
Speaker 1: as a surprise that you're like blown away. My mom
Speaker 1: cringes it at Michael Scott like she you know, so
Speaker 1: much of the time, like she would cringe, but man,
Speaker 1: she watched that finale moment. She would rewind and watch
Speaker 1: him showing up you know that reveal fifty times. She's like, David,
Speaker 1: I can't stop watching it, you know. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: just such a great moment with the reveal. It's like
Speaker 1: I can't be your best man, but you know. And
Speaker 1: and so we were secretive about it, and and Greg.
Speaker 1: I remember Gregg felt bad about lying and I was
Speaker 1: explaining to him about spoilers. I'm like this is not
Speaker 1: harming anyone. And it's like a surprise party if someone asked, like,
Speaker 1: are you throwing me a surprise party and you say no,
Speaker 1: and the two hours later surprise Like that's what this is.
Speaker 1: And Greg, I remember he said he felt better, he
Speaker 1: felt better about that, you know about it. It It was like,
Speaker 1: I know it's hard, but that's what it is. Like
Speaker 1: we're we're you know, we have to keep it a secret.
Speaker 1: And if everybody keeps it a secret, it's a secret.
Speaker 1: Like that's we're all in it together. Because even you know,
Speaker 1: I remember, you know Ken Koppas like the day before
Speaker 1: was like, no, Steve's not in it. He you know,
Speaker 1: he decided that he ended, he had his exit and
Speaker 1: all this and it's like, yeah, we're just flying. It's
Speaker 1: a white, little white lie like that's it and it
Speaker 1: and it all comes out right. Um, how how did
Speaker 1: you working on the Office change your life? God? Well,
Speaker 1: it just was like being you know, like I said,
Speaker 1: I had worked on Seinfeld, but I was a small
Speaker 1: part of that show, and it was it was very late.
Speaker 1: I joined late. I was not instrumental in making that
Speaker 1: show anything. I just I was lucky to be a
Speaker 1: part of it. But being part of the office was
Speaker 1: like you know, coming in right after the pilot and
Speaker 1: getting to you know, tweaked the pilot a little bit,
Speaker 1: but you know, just just coming in though from diversity
Speaker 1: day and and being instrumental in like helping shape the show.
Speaker 1: Really being part of the creative process. I didn't write,
Speaker 1: you know, scripts or anything like that, but Greg would
Speaker 1: always listen, like if you have pitches, if you have
Speaker 1: any ideas, and sometimes you know, hey, this would get in.
Speaker 1: That would that would get in, you know, and sometimes
Speaker 1: like I said, I'd rewrite a joke in the edit
Speaker 1: bay and we would Okay, we'll go shoot it. Or
Speaker 1: I would write even the bones, and then I said,
Speaker 1: have the writers, you know, have them just make it better,
Speaker 1: like right right, a Sharper joke and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Um and yeah. So I mean it changed my life,
Speaker 1: like just being a part of that show. And and
Speaker 1: obviously I mean it's nice like to be on something
Speaker 1: that's popular and people like, oh you work on the Office,
Speaker 1: like you know, like it's still to this day, people
Speaker 1: are always you know, surprised and through I mean, I
Speaker 1: went I was wearing a jacket under Mifflin Saver one
Speaker 1: of the season. You know, jackets wrap jackets and I
Speaker 1: was getting coffee and uh, the rist was like, I
Speaker 1: love your jack What you gonna say? I worked on
Speaker 1: the show. Oh my god, I love this show. Please
Speaker 1: tell every you know. I mean like still to this day, people, Uh,
Speaker 1: people are you know? More and more? Actually I should
Speaker 1: say you know as do you feel too? Because like
Speaker 1: I said, there's another there's a whole generation of of
Speaker 1: people with their kids. I get Facebook messages all the
Speaker 1: times where they're like, just one of my kids are
Speaker 1: watching the show. They love it. They've binged it three times.
Speaker 1: You know. Even my godson I got him. He wanted
Speaker 1: for Christmas a dunder Mifflin hoodie. I had to buy
Speaker 1: one from NBC dot com. Do I have anything anymore?
Speaker 1: I'm like, I all my swag and autograph stuff. You know,
Speaker 1: he's watched the episodes. He sees me. He hears my
Speaker 1: voice as the documentary and he sees my name in
Speaker 1: the credits. Uh. And we talked stuff and people are
Speaker 1: always asking me about trivia and I'm pretty good my
Speaker 1: memories that like I said, I'm I slip a little
Speaker 1: bit with with people's names. And I don't know if
Speaker 1: that's just age or if like the hard drive is
Speaker 1: full and overloaded. I've got one. I've got I've got
Speaker 1: one for you. This is fun, so people they'll come up.
Speaker 1: You are pretty good with trivia. In fact, we all
Speaker 1: call you the Encyclopedia. I have one question. This is
Speaker 1: my one, all right, all right. I was told a
Speaker 1: while ago it is a name one though, so you
Speaker 1: got to be careful. This was like the finals of
Speaker 1: some trivia thing someone won. They told me the question.
Speaker 1: I've just decided I'm adopting this question. When someone says
Speaker 1: they know trivia and I asked him this question, Okay,
Speaker 1: you ready, this is for one billion dollars. What is
Speaker 1: Gabe Lewis's middle name? Beverley? That was like, this the
Speaker 1: right spirit you? Now? I think the Leslie David Baker.
Speaker 1: I've had a lot of people say Leslie. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to think. Is Susan Susan Susan Gabriel Susan Lewis. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's good. There you go have you. But thank you
Speaker 1: for playing. Was really really entertaining. Um, dude, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for coming in. Yeah, you're you're the encyclopedia
Speaker 1: and your knowledge and your passion for the show. You know,
Speaker 1: I think the show in a lot of ways, what
Speaker 1: made it special was how much people cared. It wasn't
Speaker 1: about ego. It was truly about making the best show
Speaker 1: that we could. Yeah, what can you say? I mean? Yeah,
Speaker 1: the show has changed my life in so many ways,
Speaker 1: and it's just you know, I love being a part
Speaker 1: of it. I still love being a part of it.
Speaker 1: And uh, I just love that we we have this
Speaker 1: this bond because of it. Yeah, all right, thank you, Dave.
Speaker 1: What can I say? I could just stand here and
Speaker 1: listen to you on a podcast all day. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for coming by. It was so great to
Speaker 1: see you and to well to hear from you, and
Speaker 1: to all of you out there, thank you for listening
Speaker 1: to another episode of the Office Deep Dive. I hope
Speaker 1: you have the best week possible And to cap off
Speaker 1: that amazing week, you can come back next Tuesday to
Speaker 1: hear part two of my conversation with our wonderful writer
Speaker 1: Jen Salata. The Office Deep Dive is hosted and executive
Speaker 1: produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Lang Lee.
Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer. Our producers are Diego
Speaker 1: Tapia and Liz Hayes. My main man in the booth
Speaker 1: is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak performed
Speaker 1: by my great friend Cree Bratton, and the episode was
Speaker 1: mixed by seth olandskip A