1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:24,276 Speaker 1: Pushkin. So I'm calling you because I'm doing a little 2 00:00:24,316 --> 00:00:29,676 Speaker 1: thing on how I don't like my birthday. Yes, and 3 00:00:29,756 --> 00:00:31,516 Speaker 1: I have questions for you. 4 00:00:33,196 --> 00:00:38,356 Speaker 2: Yes, I'm eagerly waiting to hear of this because I 5 00:00:38,516 --> 00:00:41,076 Speaker 2: have spaid a lot of time one ding what it's 6 00:00:41,116 --> 00:00:41,636 Speaker 2: all about. 7 00:00:42,676 --> 00:00:47,116 Speaker 1: That's my mom, Joyce. She's very short, speaks very softly. 8 00:00:47,716 --> 00:00:51,476 Speaker 1: You would like her. Do you remember ever having a 9 00:00:51,516 --> 00:00:53,516 Speaker 1: birthday party for me when I was a child. 10 00:00:54,116 --> 00:00:59,036 Speaker 2: I think we did. We didn't do exotic things. I 11 00:00:59,076 --> 00:01:03,756 Speaker 2: think you had people sleep over, or you had some 12 00:01:03,956 --> 00:01:07,956 Speaker 2: people to tea, a few friends from school. 13 00:01:08,596 --> 00:01:13,756 Speaker 1: I remember there was once a big party, and really 14 00:01:13,956 --> 00:01:18,076 Speaker 1: and I and I said, and afterwards I said, that's enough. 15 00:01:18,836 --> 00:01:24,116 Speaker 2: Oh okay, now, well you're going to exclaine what you were? 16 00:01:24,476 --> 00:01:25,356 Speaker 3: What was enough? 17 00:01:28,236 --> 00:01:32,956 Speaker 1: In case you're wondering, my mom is a therapist. I 18 00:01:33,036 --> 00:01:35,196 Speaker 1: just thought it was a I thought it was a 19 00:01:35,236 --> 00:01:38,516 Speaker 1: needless production to have all these people over. 20 00:01:39,076 --> 00:01:40,876 Speaker 2: What should it have been instead? 21 00:01:41,676 --> 00:01:45,356 Speaker 1: Well, what would I do now? Is perfect? Which is nothing? 22 00:01:46,236 --> 00:01:51,916 Speaker 2: Oh, so you didn't enjoy any part of having friends 23 00:01:51,956 --> 00:01:53,596 Speaker 2: to eat with you? 24 00:01:53,636 --> 00:01:59,396 Speaker 1: No, I haven't had a birthday party since. It's worse 25 00:01:59,436 --> 00:02:02,956 Speaker 1: than that. I don't remember anyone's birthday. I know my 26 00:02:03,076 --> 00:02:05,956 Speaker 1: mother's but not my father's, one of my brothers, but 27 00:02:05,996 --> 00:02:08,196 Speaker 1: not the other. One of my daughters was born in 28 00:02:08,236 --> 00:02:10,756 Speaker 1: July and the other in August, but I'm not sure 29 00:02:10,796 --> 00:02:13,756 Speaker 1: which is which. If I were to name my five 30 00:02:13,836 --> 00:02:16,436 Speaker 1: closest friends, I think I know the birthday of one 31 00:02:16,436 --> 00:02:19,436 Speaker 1: of them. And that's because it's January first. And I 32 00:02:19,516 --> 00:02:21,996 Speaker 1: just saw him on January first, and he said to me, 33 00:02:22,516 --> 00:02:26,276 Speaker 1: with tones of great injury and reproach, today is my birthday. 34 00:02:26,876 --> 00:02:28,996 Speaker 1: But I am sure I'll forget that fact really soon 35 00:02:29,836 --> 00:02:33,236 Speaker 1: on this particular subject. The overloaded lifeboat that is my 36 00:02:33,356 --> 00:02:37,396 Speaker 1: memory is refusing all further passengers. And by the way, 37 00:02:37,516 --> 00:02:40,156 Speaker 1: my mother reminded me, it's not just birthdays that I 38 00:02:40,196 --> 00:02:43,516 Speaker 1: have a problem with, it's any kind of arbitrary celebration. 39 00:02:45,036 --> 00:02:46,356 Speaker 4: So you were. 40 00:02:48,356 --> 00:02:49,796 Speaker 5: A very thoughtful child. 41 00:02:50,276 --> 00:02:53,316 Speaker 2: The fact, for example, was that you child is your teacher, 42 00:02:53,716 --> 00:02:54,396 Speaker 2: Miss Brown. 43 00:02:55,236 --> 00:02:57,916 Speaker 1: Missus Brown was my first grade teacher. I was very 44 00:02:57,956 --> 00:03:01,276 Speaker 1: fond of Missus Brown. But one day at school she 45 00:03:01,356 --> 00:03:03,836 Speaker 1: brought up Christmas and Santa Claus. 46 00:03:04,396 --> 00:03:06,596 Speaker 2: You put your hand up and said, there is no 47 00:03:06,796 --> 00:03:12,516 Speaker 2: center flower. This was when she had the fair problem, 48 00:03:12,596 --> 00:03:16,036 Speaker 2: because here she was speaking to a group of small 49 00:03:16,196 --> 00:03:18,476 Speaker 2: children who wanted to believe. 50 00:03:19,556 --> 00:03:23,916 Speaker 1: Yes, it's they're linked by the way my disdain for 51 00:03:23,996 --> 00:03:27,636 Speaker 1: Santa Claus and my disdain for my birthday. Is this 52 00:03:27,836 --> 00:03:28,996 Speaker 1: part of the same impulse? 53 00:03:30,116 --> 00:03:33,156 Speaker 5: Yes, of course, Yes, of. 54 00:03:33,156 --> 00:03:38,276 Speaker 1: Course, says mom the therapist. Why am I telling you 55 00:03:38,356 --> 00:03:43,116 Speaker 1: all this because last year, twenty twenty five was the 56 00:03:43,156 --> 00:03:47,476 Speaker 1: tenth anniversary of when we started making Revisionist History, and 57 00:03:47,516 --> 00:03:51,676 Speaker 1: I forgot all about it, totally skip my mind until 58 00:03:51,676 --> 00:03:54,476 Speaker 1: I was randomly on the Revision's history dot Com website 59 00:03:54,596 --> 00:03:57,476 Speaker 1: looking up some forgotten fact from an episode from season 60 00:03:57,516 --> 00:04:00,876 Speaker 1: one one of my favorite food Fight, and I noticed 61 00:04:00,876 --> 00:04:05,676 Speaker 1: the release date July fourteenth, twenty sixteen, and I realized, 62 00:04:05,796 --> 00:04:10,316 Speaker 1: holy mackerel, we've been around for ten years. The Internet 63 00:04:10,436 --> 00:04:13,956 Speaker 1: tells me that this is the ten or Aluminum anniversary, 64 00:04:14,156 --> 00:04:16,356 Speaker 1: which I have to say, kind of proves my point. 65 00:04:16,756 --> 00:04:18,756 Speaker 1: What are you supposed to do in your tenth anniversary? 66 00:04:19,076 --> 00:04:19,236 Speaker 3: Right? 67 00:04:19,316 --> 00:04:21,996 Speaker 1: I love you in magic marker on a sheet of tinfoil. 68 00:04:23,116 --> 00:04:25,796 Speaker 1: This was back in the summer. So what did I do. 69 00:04:26,116 --> 00:04:29,236 Speaker 1: I didn't say anything, kept it to myself. It's better 70 00:04:29,276 --> 00:04:31,636 Speaker 1: this way, I thought, But then I remember to date. 71 00:04:31,676 --> 00:04:33,676 Speaker 1: I went on many years ago with a girl who 72 00:04:33,716 --> 00:04:36,036 Speaker 1: told me that she turned her birthday every year into 73 00:04:36,036 --> 00:04:39,236 Speaker 1: a seven day marathon. She called it, wait for it, 74 00:04:39,876 --> 00:04:44,556 Speaker 1: Princess Week. Picture me in the darkened bar making sense 75 00:04:44,556 --> 00:04:50,316 Speaker 1: of that revelation. Good lord, But if someone wants Princess Week, 76 00:04:50,636 --> 00:04:54,076 Speaker 1: shouldn't we just give them Princess Week. So, all of 77 00:04:54,076 --> 00:04:58,356 Speaker 1: you insufferably sentimental people out there in listener land, this 78 00:04:58,556 --> 00:05:04,116 Speaker 1: is for you, a little revisionist history tenth anniversary celebration. 79 00:05:12,716 --> 00:05:16,116 Speaker 1: To get started, I did little homework, sent out a tweet, 80 00:05:16,556 --> 00:05:20,556 Speaker 1: asked listeners for feedback, scoured some Reddit threads, talk with 81 00:05:20,596 --> 00:05:22,716 Speaker 1: people who've been involved in the show over the years, 82 00:05:23,156 --> 00:05:25,916 Speaker 1: trying to generate a highlight reel for the big birthday party. 83 00:05:26,476 --> 00:05:29,916 Speaker 1: What was her favorite moment memory? First thing I got 84 00:05:29,916 --> 00:05:32,796 Speaker 1: back was from my colleague Bend daph Haffrey, who talked 85 00:05:32,796 --> 00:05:36,076 Speaker 1: to my old producer Elowise Linton about a reporting trip 86 00:05:36,156 --> 00:05:38,636 Speaker 1: we took back in twenty twenty one for the episode 87 00:05:39,076 --> 00:05:40,356 Speaker 1: The Dog Will See You Now. 88 00:05:41,796 --> 00:05:46,076 Speaker 3: Okay, So Malcolm wanted to do an episode on these 89 00:05:46,556 --> 00:05:52,636 Speaker 3: dogs who were trained to small COVID and we found 90 00:05:52,796 --> 00:05:59,476 Speaker 3: this center in Alabama that trained these specialized dogs and 91 00:06:00,276 --> 00:06:03,436 Speaker 3: we all decided to go on a road trip and 92 00:06:03,476 --> 00:06:07,356 Speaker 3: it was me, Malcolm and Jacob Smith, so Malcolm and 93 00:06:07,476 --> 00:06:12,036 Speaker 3: two producers. And part of the thing that was fun 94 00:06:12,116 --> 00:06:14,036 Speaker 3: but also kind of crazy about it was that we 95 00:06:14,036 --> 00:06:16,036 Speaker 3: were just sort of coming out of COVID, so we 96 00:06:16,076 --> 00:06:18,116 Speaker 3: hadn't It was fun to take a trip in a 97 00:06:18,156 --> 00:06:21,076 Speaker 3: moment when there wasn't a lot of socializing or traveling 98 00:06:21,116 --> 00:06:21,476 Speaker 3: going on. 99 00:06:23,076 --> 00:06:24,756 Speaker 1: Let me just butt in here and say that no 100 00:06:24,796 --> 00:06:28,476 Speaker 1: one loves doing Alabama stories more than me. Back in 101 00:06:28,516 --> 00:06:32,716 Speaker 1: season two, we did The foot Soldier of Birmingham. Season eight, 102 00:06:32,796 --> 00:06:36,356 Speaker 1: we did an episode called Footnote Remember for our gun 103 00:06:36,516 --> 00:06:39,716 Speaker 1: series about a guy living on an old plantation outside 104 00:06:39,756 --> 00:06:43,836 Speaker 1: of Tuskegee. Season ten, we went to Scottsboro, Alabama for 105 00:06:43,916 --> 00:06:46,756 Speaker 1: an episode of our nineteen thirty six Olympic series. And 106 00:06:46,796 --> 00:06:49,796 Speaker 1: we just did The Alabama Murders, a seven part series 107 00:06:49,796 --> 00:06:53,596 Speaker 1: about crime and punishment and redemption set in a little 108 00:06:53,636 --> 00:06:57,276 Speaker 1: town in northwestern Alabama. Bet and I went twice. Ben 109 00:06:57,356 --> 00:07:00,756 Speaker 1: went a third time on his own. No one loves 110 00:07:00,796 --> 00:07:05,036 Speaker 1: Alabama more than I love Alabama. So in the middle 111 00:07:05,076 --> 00:07:06,876 Speaker 1: of COVID, I want to do a story about how 112 00:07:06,916 --> 00:07:10,076 Speaker 1: dogs are much better detecting COVID, then even the most 113 00:07:10,156 --> 00:07:13,676 Speaker 1: sophisticated molecular bio essay, and I find out that one 114 00:07:13,676 --> 00:07:16,876 Speaker 1: of the biggest COVID canine training centers is an hour's 115 00:07:16,956 --> 00:07:22,556 Speaker 1: drive from Birmingham, way up in the hills, Alabama. Cute puppies, 116 00:07:23,196 --> 00:07:26,916 Speaker 1: viral epidemics. My feeling was that this might be the 117 00:07:27,196 --> 00:07:29,156 Speaker 1: perfect revision's history story. 118 00:07:30,196 --> 00:07:32,676 Speaker 3: One fun thing that I learned about Malcolm on this 119 00:07:32,796 --> 00:07:36,556 Speaker 3: trip is that he doesn't believe in using maps, which 120 00:07:36,676 --> 00:07:40,716 Speaker 3: caused you know, nah, he doesn't want He doesn't mean 121 00:07:40,756 --> 00:07:43,196 Speaker 3: you can ask him his philosophy on it. I'm sure 122 00:07:43,236 --> 00:07:47,036 Speaker 3: he has some great answer, but he would not use 123 00:07:47,076 --> 00:07:48,876 Speaker 3: an app. So it was kind of me and Jacob 124 00:07:48,956 --> 00:07:52,236 Speaker 3: secretly checking our you know, Google maps and sort of 125 00:07:52,916 --> 00:07:56,756 Speaker 3: suggesting that he takes certain turns, picking your fingers, sticking 126 00:07:56,756 --> 00:08:01,276 Speaker 3: it to the wind and being yeah, exactly, yeah, this 127 00:08:01,436 --> 00:08:01,956 Speaker 3: is true. 128 00:08:02,116 --> 00:08:04,796 Speaker 1: Since we're talking about my parents, one of my fondest 129 00:08:04,836 --> 00:08:07,556 Speaker 1: memories of being a kid is driving with my family 130 00:08:07,636 --> 00:08:12,036 Speaker 1: somewhere and clearly getting hopelessly lost and my father announcing 131 00:08:12,116 --> 00:08:16,036 Speaker 1: gleefully from the front seat, I'm following my nose. I 132 00:08:16,076 --> 00:08:19,116 Speaker 1: felt that my young producers deserved a similar experience. 133 00:08:21,636 --> 00:08:24,596 Speaker 3: And on this long drive road trip, we had to 134 00:08:24,596 --> 00:08:28,276 Speaker 3: stop for gas, and we stopped at a very desolate 135 00:08:28,436 --> 00:08:31,836 Speaker 3: gas station, kind of in the middle of nowhere, very 136 00:08:31,836 --> 00:08:37,556 Speaker 3: in the middle of nowhere, and Malcolm and Jacob both 137 00:08:37,636 --> 00:08:40,396 Speaker 3: went in to grab something, and I went to the 138 00:08:40,396 --> 00:08:43,236 Speaker 3: bathroom and I came back out and they were gone, 139 00:08:43,596 --> 00:08:48,956 Speaker 3: and I left my cellphone in the car, and I 140 00:08:49,036 --> 00:08:53,436 Speaker 3: just kind of remember calculating what my options were in 141 00:08:53,556 --> 00:08:56,236 Speaker 3: terms of what I could do. So I remember I 142 00:08:56,316 --> 00:08:59,796 Speaker 3: went into the I went into the sort of gas 143 00:08:59,876 --> 00:09:06,196 Speaker 3: station and was concentplating calling my family, calling my roommate 144 00:09:06,316 --> 00:09:16,476 Speaker 3: and saying, listen, my boss left me at a gas. 145 00:09:13,316 --> 00:09:15,916 Speaker 1: In fairness to me and Jacob, Elowis had been sitting 146 00:09:15,956 --> 00:09:18,036 Speaker 1: in the back seat, and she is by nature quite 147 00:09:18,116 --> 00:09:20,356 Speaker 1: as a church mess, so it makes sense that we 148 00:09:20,476 --> 00:09:22,956 Speaker 1: might assume that she was back there all the time, 149 00:09:23,316 --> 00:09:25,676 Speaker 1: reading a book or something. And it did not take 150 00:09:25,716 --> 00:09:28,476 Speaker 1: that long for us to realize our mistake, maybe ten 151 00:09:28,516 --> 00:09:32,076 Speaker 1: miles max and the frantic drive back, both Jacob and 152 00:09:32,076 --> 00:09:37,276 Speaker 1: I felt really, really guilty. Anyway, why am I telling 153 00:09:37,316 --> 00:09:39,756 Speaker 1: you this story because when I meet listeners, I think 154 00:09:39,756 --> 00:09:42,036 Speaker 1: they have the impression that this show is some big, 155 00:09:42,236 --> 00:09:46,436 Speaker 1: well oiled corporate machine, and clearly it's not. 156 00:09:47,476 --> 00:09:49,636 Speaker 3: I was like, did you try calling me? Like what? 157 00:09:50,076 --> 00:09:50,236 Speaker 5: One? 158 00:09:50,636 --> 00:09:53,436 Speaker 3: I don't think we really talked about it, because we're. 159 00:09:53,236 --> 00:09:57,916 Speaker 1: Also read all right. Speaking of Ben, here's a note 160 00:09:57,916 --> 00:10:01,476 Speaker 1: from my Twitter call out from a listener named Rob Gilfillian. 161 00:10:02,116 --> 00:10:05,876 Speaker 1: Here's my question. Malcolm pronounces his colleague's name as Ben 162 00:10:05,996 --> 00:10:09,556 Speaker 1: Nadaph Haffrey, while Ben calls himself Ben a de Haffrey. 163 00:10:10,196 --> 00:10:13,636 Speaker 1: It's similar to the difference in pronouncing pecan or pecan, 164 00:10:14,116 --> 00:10:18,156 Speaker 1: or Caribbean or Caribbean. These two obviously spend a lot 165 00:10:18,156 --> 00:10:22,756 Speaker 1: of time together. Seems odd. This is so true. It's 166 00:10:22,756 --> 00:10:24,956 Speaker 1: because I just love a double barreled last name. I 167 00:10:24,996 --> 00:10:27,436 Speaker 1: wish I had one. My mother's maiden name was Nation. 168 00:10:28,036 --> 00:10:30,956 Speaker 1: Can you imagine if I were known as Malcolm Nation Gladwell, 169 00:10:31,116 --> 00:10:35,076 Speaker 1: I would be unstoppable. So I'm deeply appreciative of that 170 00:10:35,236 --> 00:10:38,156 Speaker 1: nadaph in the middle of Ben's name. I want to 171 00:10:38,196 --> 00:10:40,316 Speaker 1: give it the kind of relish I believe it deserves. 172 00:10:40,636 --> 00:10:45,316 Speaker 1: Nadafha is like pickles on a sandwich. It's transformative. The 173 00:10:45,356 --> 00:10:48,236 Speaker 1: other reason, while I'm on this subject is that this 174 00:10:48,356 --> 00:10:50,156 Speaker 1: is the price I pay for being the child of 175 00:10:50,156 --> 00:10:53,356 Speaker 1: a Jamaican and an Englishman who was raised in Canada 176 00:10:53,596 --> 00:10:56,196 Speaker 1: and then moved to the United States. I have four 177 00:10:56,396 --> 00:11:01,036 Speaker 1: different pronunciation and accent models bouncing around my head at 178 00:11:01,036 --> 00:11:05,236 Speaker 1: all times. Everything is up for grabs. The person who 179 00:11:05,236 --> 00:11:08,796 Speaker 1: knows this better than anyone is my producer, Nina Lawrence. 180 00:11:09,876 --> 00:11:13,836 Speaker 3: Yeah, you have a real problem with with ambulances. 181 00:11:14,676 --> 00:11:18,556 Speaker 1: And what do you say? But when the ambulance arrived 182 00:11:18,636 --> 00:11:20,236 Speaker 1: a few minutes later? What do I say? 183 00:11:20,476 --> 00:11:21,556 Speaker 6: When the ambulance? 184 00:11:22,676 --> 00:11:30,276 Speaker 1: And that's the that's what it says, ambulance. What where 185 00:11:30,276 --> 00:11:36,196 Speaker 1: were we? One more memory. We're celebrating our tenth anniversary, 186 00:11:36,876 --> 00:11:40,556 Speaker 1: and you were You were the principal figure in the 187 00:11:40,556 --> 00:11:42,156 Speaker 1: founding of revisionist history. 188 00:11:42,716 --> 00:11:44,756 Speaker 6: It's crazy, I guess. 189 00:11:44,956 --> 00:11:46,076 Speaker 7: I mean, yeah, I was there. 190 00:11:46,196 --> 00:11:47,836 Speaker 1: I was there from the very very start. 191 00:11:47,876 --> 00:11:50,916 Speaker 7: I remember our very first meeting Bell. 192 00:11:51,076 --> 00:11:53,436 Speaker 1: The person who taught me everything there is to know 193 00:11:53,476 --> 00:11:58,916 Speaker 1: about podcasting. I want you to go back. So we 194 00:11:58,916 --> 00:12:02,436 Speaker 1: we were interviewing people and you waltzed in. 195 00:12:05,236 --> 00:12:06,716 Speaker 5: Is that? How is that how it felt that? 196 00:12:06,796 --> 00:12:09,836 Speaker 1: I want that I waltzed in. I know who you were. 197 00:12:10,676 --> 00:12:14,156 Speaker 1: I did not I did not read your resume in advance. 198 00:12:14,516 --> 00:12:19,356 Speaker 1: I never do the wait, but I want to know 199 00:12:20,076 --> 00:12:21,596 Speaker 1: what were you? We had never met. 200 00:12:21,476 --> 00:12:23,236 Speaker 7: Before, we had never met before. 201 00:12:23,276 --> 00:12:26,916 Speaker 1: What were your impressions there? I was skinny, Malcolm, what 202 00:12:27,436 --> 00:12:28,076 Speaker 1: you say? 203 00:12:28,356 --> 00:12:30,316 Speaker 7: Well, I knew your work coming in, and I had 204 00:12:30,356 --> 00:12:33,036 Speaker 7: read the outline of your I'd. 205 00:12:32,876 --> 00:12:36,116 Speaker 1: Given you an outline of some suggested ideas I had 206 00:12:36,156 --> 00:12:37,396 Speaker 1: for the first season. 207 00:12:37,796 --> 00:12:39,956 Speaker 7: Yes, yes, and there were some great you know, there 208 00:12:39,996 --> 00:12:42,356 Speaker 7: was some great stuff in there, but I also saw 209 00:12:42,396 --> 00:12:46,436 Speaker 7: a lot of sports and cars, and all the sources 210 00:12:46,476 --> 00:12:49,396 Speaker 7: that you referenced were dudes. And I was just like, Okay, 211 00:12:49,476 --> 00:12:49,996 Speaker 7: here we go. 212 00:12:51,916 --> 00:12:54,956 Speaker 1: And so I'm not a mean person, but. 213 00:12:54,916 --> 00:13:00,316 Speaker 7: I needed to speak my truth, my truth, which was 214 00:13:00,796 --> 00:13:03,036 Speaker 7: there's some great stuff here, but no woman is ever 215 00:13:03,076 --> 00:13:04,236 Speaker 7: going to listen to this podcast. 216 00:13:06,036 --> 00:13:10,116 Speaker 1: So I remember. I remember that perfectly. I I the 217 00:13:10,196 --> 00:13:12,436 Speaker 1: minute I heard that I fell in love with you. 218 00:13:12,716 --> 00:13:16,556 Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, so, so, I so 219 00:13:16,756 --> 00:13:19,996 Speaker 1: want to work with this woman. This is fantastic. It 220 00:13:20,036 --> 00:13:23,556 Speaker 1: was a show called Revisionist History. The tagline was because 221 00:13:23,596 --> 00:13:26,996 Speaker 1: sometimes the past deserves a second chance. The premise of 222 00:13:27,036 --> 00:13:28,916 Speaker 1: the show was that you needed to go back over 223 00:13:28,996 --> 00:13:31,916 Speaker 1: things that had happened, because chances are you got them wrong. 224 00:13:31,956 --> 00:13:35,196 Speaker 1: The first time, and Mia walks in, looks at the 225 00:13:35,196 --> 00:13:39,156 Speaker 1: proposed lineup of episodes and says, you need to go 226 00:13:39,276 --> 00:13:41,636 Speaker 1: back over them. You got them wrong the first time. 227 00:13:42,036 --> 00:13:47,876 Speaker 1: Under the circumstances, who could say no? After talking to Mia, 228 00:13:48,276 --> 00:13:50,196 Speaker 1: I thought of one of my all time favorite songs, 229 00:13:51,116 --> 00:13:53,716 Speaker 1: David allen Coe's you Never Even Called Me by my Name, 230 00:13:53,916 --> 00:13:58,596 Speaker 1: which begins with the perfect country opening line, Well. 231 00:13:58,476 --> 00:13:59,316 Speaker 8: It was all. 232 00:14:00,996 --> 00:14:03,156 Speaker 5: I could do. 233 00:14:03,156 --> 00:14:04,796 Speaker 9: You keep from crying. 234 00:14:06,476 --> 00:14:08,636 Speaker 1: If you've never heard of David allen Coe, By the way, 235 00:14:09,116 --> 00:14:11,236 Speaker 1: he just read you, a line taken at random from 236 00:14:11,316 --> 00:14:15,596 Speaker 1: his Wikipedia page. After concluding another prison term in nineteen 237 00:14:15,636 --> 00:14:18,956 Speaker 1: sixty seven, Co embarked on a music career in Nashville, 238 00:14:19,436 --> 00:14:21,716 Speaker 1: living in a hearse which he parked in front of 239 00:14:21,716 --> 00:14:25,516 Speaker 1: the Rymann Auditorium while he performed on the street. How 240 00:14:25,516 --> 00:14:28,556 Speaker 1: can you not love David allen Coe anyway? Halfway through 241 00:14:28,676 --> 00:14:31,116 Speaker 1: you never even called me by my name? Coe just 242 00:14:31,196 --> 00:14:33,596 Speaker 1: stops and says, well. 243 00:14:33,636 --> 00:14:36,116 Speaker 9: A friend of mine named Steve Goodman wrote that song, 244 00:14:37,076 --> 00:14:39,236 Speaker 9: and he told me it was the perfect Countrey and 245 00:14:39,276 --> 00:14:42,876 Speaker 9: Western song. I wrote him back a letter and I 246 00:14:42,916 --> 00:14:45,356 Speaker 9: told him it was not the perfect Conkrey and Western 247 00:14:45,436 --> 00:14:49,396 Speaker 9: song because he hadn't said anything at all about mama 248 00:14:50,116 --> 00:14:55,356 Speaker 9: or trained, or trucked, or prison. 249 00:14:56,436 --> 00:14:57,396 Speaker 10: Or getting drunk. 250 00:14:58,316 --> 00:15:01,116 Speaker 1: So then Goodman writes a new verse, sends it to 251 00:15:01,156 --> 00:15:04,716 Speaker 1: co and Coe says, Okay, now this really is the 252 00:15:04,756 --> 00:15:06,156 Speaker 1: perfect country and Western song. 253 00:15:07,236 --> 00:15:09,316 Speaker 9: The last verse goes like this here. 254 00:15:10,956 --> 00:15:16,076 Speaker 8: And I was drawn to d My mom got out 255 00:15:16,076 --> 00:15:23,476 Speaker 8: of prison, and I with the picker up. 256 00:15:24,996 --> 00:15:30,716 Speaker 3: In the right, but before. 257 00:15:31,956 --> 00:15:37,076 Speaker 8: I could get to the station, now the picker throw 258 00:15:40,076 --> 00:15:43,996 Speaker 8: she got rid over by a damn the train. 259 00:15:47,876 --> 00:15:49,556 Speaker 1: I think you can see where I'm going with this. 260 00:15:50,236 --> 00:15:53,196 Speaker 1: A singer insists on going back over a song, a 261 00:15:53,276 --> 00:15:56,236 Speaker 1: song that has already been written, because he thinks the 262 00:15:56,276 --> 00:15:59,796 Speaker 1: songwriter got it wrong the first time. And what's the fix? 263 00:16:00,636 --> 00:16:04,716 Speaker 1: Nothing elaborate, the most prosaic of things, the bare essentials 264 00:16:04,756 --> 00:16:09,876 Speaker 1: for a country singer, Mama, trains, trucks, prisons, and getting 265 00:16:10,436 --> 00:16:12,436 Speaker 1: That's what I think we've learned over the first ten 266 00:16:12,516 --> 00:16:16,556 Speaker 1: years of the show that getting something right doesn't require heroics, 267 00:16:17,196 --> 00:16:20,796 Speaker 1: is just following your nose and turning around when you 268 00:16:20,876 --> 00:16:37,996 Speaker 1: mistakenly left someone behind. After the break, the celebration continues, Okay, 269 00:16:38,196 --> 00:16:40,476 Speaker 1: I have some thoughts about the first ten years of 270 00:16:40,516 --> 00:16:44,196 Speaker 1: Revision's history why it has been so much fun, Because 271 00:16:44,556 --> 00:16:47,436 Speaker 1: it's been way way more fun than I ever imagined 272 00:16:48,156 --> 00:16:51,236 Speaker 1: for me. It starts with the difference between reading a 273 00:16:51,316 --> 00:16:55,636 Speaker 1: story and hearing a story. In reading, the writer is 274 00:16:55,676 --> 00:16:58,316 Speaker 1: in charge of what appears on the page. If you 275 00:16:58,356 --> 00:17:00,276 Speaker 1: read one of my books and you liked it, you're 276 00:17:00,276 --> 00:17:03,396 Speaker 1: giving me a direct compliment. You're saying, I like what 277 00:17:03,516 --> 00:17:06,996 Speaker 1: you made. But when you listen to a story made 278 00:17:07,036 --> 00:17:10,036 Speaker 1: up of interviews with all sorts of people, archival tape 279 00:17:10,076 --> 00:17:13,036 Speaker 1: sitch together with bits of narrative here and there, you 280 00:17:13,076 --> 00:17:16,276 Speaker 1: aren't saying I like what you made. You're saying I 281 00:17:16,436 --> 00:17:19,396 Speaker 1: like what you found. And that's a very different thing. 282 00:17:21,116 --> 00:17:24,276 Speaker 1: One episode listeners ranked as a favorite on my Twitter poll, 283 00:17:24,276 --> 00:17:27,636 Speaker 1: for example, is My Little one hundred Million from season one, 284 00:17:28,196 --> 00:17:32,076 Speaker 1: an episode all about the strange phenomenon of wealthy people 285 00:17:32,116 --> 00:17:34,996 Speaker 1: giving millions of dollars to colleges that already have millions 286 00:17:35,036 --> 00:17:38,396 Speaker 1: of dollars as opposed to schools that don't have millions 287 00:17:38,396 --> 00:17:41,396 Speaker 1: of dollars. There's a moment in the episode where I 288 00:17:41,396 --> 00:17:44,156 Speaker 1: call up John Hennessy, who was the president of Stanford 289 00:17:44,236 --> 00:17:47,556 Speaker 1: University at the time. Stanford is a tiny fraction of 290 00:17:47,596 --> 00:17:50,756 Speaker 1: the size of its neighbors in the University of California System. 291 00:17:50,876 --> 00:17:54,876 Speaker 1: And yet in twenty sixteen, Stamford's endowment was twenty two billion. 292 00:17:55,716 --> 00:18:00,116 Speaker 1: The UC systems endowment much much smaller, by about eight 293 00:18:00,156 --> 00:18:04,676 Speaker 1: and a half billion dollars. So I asked Hennessy, do 294 00:18:04,716 --> 00:18:08,436 Speaker 1: you ever imagine that a president of Stanford might go 295 00:18:09,316 --> 00:18:12,036 Speaker 1: to a funder and say, at this point in our history, 296 00:18:12,076 --> 00:18:13,676 Speaker 1: the best use of your money is to give to 297 00:18:13,756 --> 00:18:17,156 Speaker 1: the UC system, not to Stanford. Well, that would be 298 00:18:17,236 --> 00:18:19,316 Speaker 1: a hard thing to do, obviously, to. 299 00:18:21,316 --> 00:18:23,476 Speaker 5: Turn them turn them away. 300 00:18:23,836 --> 00:18:27,356 Speaker 6: And I think the other question we'd be asked is 301 00:18:28,236 --> 00:18:28,836 Speaker 6: how can I. 302 00:18:28,836 --> 00:18:30,756 Speaker 1: Have confidence that they'll use my money? 303 00:18:30,796 --> 00:18:34,116 Speaker 8: Well, which we're obviously the president of Stanford is not 304 00:18:34,196 --> 00:18:36,276 Speaker 8: in a position to vouch for. I think. 305 00:18:37,596 --> 00:18:41,076 Speaker 1: It's an amazing answer. And what's amazing is that he 306 00:18:41,156 --> 00:18:44,676 Speaker 1: had every reason to duck that question, or brush it aside, 307 00:18:45,116 --> 00:18:48,396 Speaker 1: or tell a lie, but he doesn't. He decides to 308 00:18:48,436 --> 00:18:51,636 Speaker 1: be completely honest. He owns up to the fact that 309 00:18:51,716 --> 00:18:54,676 Speaker 1: even though he is an educator, he is not primarily 310 00:18:54,756 --> 00:18:58,836 Speaker 1: in the education business. He's in the Stanford business. And 311 00:18:58,876 --> 00:19:01,036 Speaker 1: I suspect that one of the reasons so many people 312 00:19:01,076 --> 00:19:03,596 Speaker 1: listed my Little one hundred million, as one of their 313 00:19:03,636 --> 00:19:06,756 Speaker 1: favorites is because of that little bit of tape from Hennessy. 314 00:19:07,476 --> 00:19:10,996 Speaker 1: I didn't make that moment. I didn't anticipate it. I 315 00:19:10,996 --> 00:19:14,836 Speaker 1: didn't manipulate Hennessy into saying it. I stumbled into it. 316 00:19:15,676 --> 00:19:18,276 Speaker 1: And the wonderful thing about audio is that it allows 317 00:19:18,316 --> 00:19:21,956 Speaker 1: you to capture those found moments exactly as they're happening. 318 00:19:24,716 --> 00:19:27,596 Speaker 1: There's an even better example of this. It's from another 319 00:19:27,636 --> 00:19:33,276 Speaker 1: episode on the List from Listeners, Elvis Analysis Parapraxis season three. 320 00:19:33,796 --> 00:19:36,396 Speaker 1: If you haven't heard it, the premise is pretty simple. 321 00:19:36,756 --> 00:19:40,316 Speaker 1: One of Elvis's trademark songs was are You Lonesome Tonight? 322 00:19:40,796 --> 00:19:42,676 Speaker 1: And in the middle of the song, there's a bridge, 323 00:19:42,756 --> 00:19:46,676 Speaker 1: a couple of spoken sentences, a little soliloquy, and over 324 00:19:46,676 --> 00:19:49,396 Speaker 1: and over again, whenever Elvis had to say the bridge, 325 00:19:49,876 --> 00:19:52,836 Speaker 1: hit screw it up, get the words wrong, break out 326 00:19:52,876 --> 00:19:54,756 Speaker 1: into totally inappropriate laughter. 327 00:19:56,516 --> 00:19:58,516 Speaker 2: The World's of stags and East must play a part. 328 00:20:11,676 --> 00:20:15,276 Speaker 1: The Freudian term for what Elvis was doing is called parapraxis, 329 00:20:15,796 --> 00:20:18,916 Speaker 1: a slip of the tongue that reveals something about the speaker. 330 00:20:19,596 --> 00:20:22,556 Speaker 1: So the episode was trying to answer, what does Elvis's 331 00:20:22,596 --> 00:20:26,076 Speaker 1: issue with the bridge. Tell us about Elvis. Now, I 332 00:20:26,076 --> 00:20:28,396 Speaker 1: should say I had all kinds of trouble doing this story. 333 00:20:28,756 --> 00:20:31,716 Speaker 1: There was a great essay written about Elvis's parapraxis by 334 00:20:31,716 --> 00:20:35,836 Speaker 1: the psychologist Alan Elms, so I flew to Sacramento to 335 00:20:35,876 --> 00:20:38,836 Speaker 1: meet with Elms, but he wasn't well and couldn't really speak, 336 00:20:38,956 --> 00:20:41,436 Speaker 1: so I kind of gave up put the story aside 337 00:20:41,436 --> 00:20:44,276 Speaker 1: for months until I had the random idea of just 338 00:20:44,356 --> 00:20:47,996 Speaker 1: going to Nashville and having professional musicians sing are You 339 00:20:48,116 --> 00:20:50,676 Speaker 1: Lonesome Tonight and explain to me why the bridge is 340 00:20:50,716 --> 00:20:54,116 Speaker 1: so complicated. I went to see Bobby Braddock, one of 341 00:20:54,116 --> 00:20:57,036 Speaker 1: the legendary Nashville songwriters, and he brought with him a 342 00:20:57,076 --> 00:21:01,196 Speaker 1: good friend, a singer named Casey Bowles. Casey sang are 343 00:21:01,196 --> 00:21:03,956 Speaker 1: You Lonesome Tonight? And then we got on the subject 344 00:21:04,316 --> 00:21:07,796 Speaker 1: of another song, one of her own. Do you find 345 00:21:07,836 --> 00:21:11,516 Speaker 1: yourself making the kind of errors sometimes even subtle ones 346 00:21:11,556 --> 00:21:13,596 Speaker 1: that you know you've been talking about? 347 00:21:13,636 --> 00:21:16,196 Speaker 5: That's so interesting. I wrote a song about my mother 348 00:21:16,356 --> 00:21:21,236 Speaker 5: called Somebody Something, and my mother is adorable. And whenever 349 00:21:21,276 --> 00:21:24,276 Speaker 5: you heard about things going wrong or like some tumultu 350 00:21:24,316 --> 00:21:26,236 Speaker 5: a story, it was my dad, and so I finally 351 00:21:26,356 --> 00:21:27,916 Speaker 5: was like, you know what, wantn't we the only person 352 00:21:27,916 --> 00:21:30,476 Speaker 5: in the family that there's nothing I have it written about? 353 00:21:30,476 --> 00:21:31,636 Speaker 5: So it's trying to dig dirt on. 354 00:21:31,636 --> 00:21:32,676 Speaker 6: Her and there was nothing. 355 00:21:33,156 --> 00:21:35,596 Speaker 5: And so I ended up writing this song about her, 356 00:21:35,796 --> 00:21:39,196 Speaker 5: called Somebody Something, and I cry every time I do it. 357 00:21:39,596 --> 00:21:43,076 Speaker 5: And there is a line that says, you know, she's 358 00:21:43,116 --> 00:21:45,996 Speaker 5: always been somebody something. She's lived every life but her own, 359 00:21:48,556 --> 00:21:51,516 Speaker 5: and it's gone. I can't remember it right now. I 360 00:21:51,556 --> 00:21:53,276 Speaker 5: don't know that feeling. I can't remember it. 361 00:21:54,756 --> 00:21:57,356 Speaker 6: She's always been somebody something. It's been everything but. 362 00:21:57,436 --> 00:22:02,236 Speaker 5: Alone, a daughter, a mother, a lot, a daughter, a lover, 363 00:22:02,716 --> 00:22:06,116 Speaker 5: a wife, and a mother. She's lived every life but 364 00:22:06,276 --> 00:22:10,876 Speaker 5: her own. Yeah, she's always been so it's something. And 365 00:22:10,916 --> 00:22:13,236 Speaker 5: there's a line that says, you know, she she wonders 366 00:22:13,236 --> 00:22:16,436 Speaker 5: what it might be like to be somebody else, and 367 00:22:16,476 --> 00:22:22,276 Speaker 5: she wonders what it feels like to be free, but 368 00:22:22,356 --> 00:22:25,316 Speaker 5: she's always imagined being nobody's nothing, and that's something she 369 00:22:25,476 --> 00:22:30,196 Speaker 5: never want to be. But that line usually is just gone. 370 00:22:30,356 --> 00:22:32,796 Speaker 5: And a lot of times I'll go hold on and 371 00:22:32,916 --> 00:22:35,076 Speaker 5: divert and tell a funny story really quickly. 372 00:22:36,916 --> 00:22:41,716 Speaker 1: Yeah, wait, what's the specific line that's gone is which one? 373 00:22:42,316 --> 00:22:46,276 Speaker 5: Uh? What's going again? She's always been somebody's synth. That's 374 00:22:46,316 --> 00:22:49,556 Speaker 5: been everything but alone, daughter, lover, a daughter, a lover, 375 00:22:49,676 --> 00:22:52,476 Speaker 5: a wife, and a mother. She's been everything. 376 00:22:54,076 --> 00:22:54,636 Speaker 3: But alone. 377 00:22:54,916 --> 00:22:58,956 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, why is it that lone? 378 00:22:58,996 --> 00:23:00,236 Speaker 5: I don't know. I think that. 379 00:23:05,036 --> 00:23:05,436 Speaker 6: I don't know. 380 00:23:05,516 --> 00:23:08,796 Speaker 5: I think when you even she's so when you see 381 00:23:08,836 --> 00:23:11,876 Speaker 5: somebody to give so much of themselves, and that's truly 382 00:23:11,916 --> 00:23:13,796 Speaker 5: the only thing that she will never experience. And I 383 00:23:13,836 --> 00:23:15,476 Speaker 5: think it's what I've experienced the most of. 384 00:23:17,076 --> 00:23:19,636 Speaker 1: I go to Nashville to write a story about parapraxis, 385 00:23:19,996 --> 00:23:23,796 Speaker 1: and what happens I find pair of praxis. It occurs 386 00:23:24,116 --> 00:23:26,556 Speaker 1: before my eyes, and I was lucky enough to have 387 00:23:26,596 --> 00:23:29,276 Speaker 1: the tape recorder running. And the reason I love that 388 00:23:29,316 --> 00:23:31,996 Speaker 1: episode and why so many listeners over the years have 389 00:23:32,036 --> 00:23:35,676 Speaker 1: said it's their favorite, is that you the listener, and 390 00:23:35,676 --> 00:23:39,236 Speaker 1: me the host get to participate in this little golden 391 00:23:39,276 --> 00:23:43,796 Speaker 1: moment of serendipity together we Casey, can you play that 392 00:23:43,836 --> 00:23:45,356 Speaker 1: song for us? Is it gonna be two? 393 00:23:45,556 --> 00:24:01,636 Speaker 6: Let's say, okay, okay, well, I will say if this happens, 394 00:24:07,116 --> 00:24:07,916 Speaker 6: what did I just say? 395 00:24:09,196 --> 00:24:10,356 Speaker 5: I'm thinking about Mama. 396 00:24:11,196 --> 00:24:12,236 Speaker 6: She grew up playing cowgirl. 397 00:24:12,436 --> 00:24:20,396 Speaker 4: She grew up playing cowgirl in a railroad town, dreaming 398 00:24:20,516 --> 00:24:28,196 Speaker 4: she'd see Hollywood someday. She knew some distant Friday night. 399 00:24:29,516 --> 00:24:35,516 Speaker 10: With a cigarette hole just right, Fate would come in 400 00:24:35,676 --> 00:24:43,716 Speaker 10: and carry away. As far as she could see from 401 00:24:43,796 --> 00:24:46,636 Speaker 10: the air, those were just facts. 402 00:24:46,636 --> 00:24:47,636 Speaker 6: So that's all right. 403 00:24:50,436 --> 00:24:54,876 Speaker 1: Hold one second, there it is again. Pair of Praxis. 404 00:24:54,676 --> 00:24:56,236 Speaker 10: Married in December. 405 00:24:56,516 --> 00:25:02,276 Speaker 4: Anywhere you can address her, Mama maid. She looked dog 406 00:25:02,396 --> 00:25:04,556 Speaker 4: grown up standing there like that. 407 00:25:05,676 --> 00:25:08,516 Speaker 1: I've been making things my whole life. What I've learned 408 00:25:08,516 --> 00:25:10,836 Speaker 1: over the last ten years of doing this is that 409 00:25:10,916 --> 00:25:12,556 Speaker 1: I much prefer finding things. 410 00:25:12,716 --> 00:25:14,476 Speaker 10: It's all around. 411 00:25:15,956 --> 00:25:22,156 Speaker 4: May love and the greyhound coming back. As far as 412 00:25:22,156 --> 00:25:25,596 Speaker 4: she could say from there, those were just the facts. 413 00:25:25,796 --> 00:25:27,236 Speaker 1: Lie, We'll be right back. 414 00:25:27,996 --> 00:25:30,796 Speaker 4: You went from somebody's daughter. 415 00:25:32,076 --> 00:25:32,596 Speaker 6: Somebody. 416 00:25:39,516 --> 00:25:42,876 Speaker 1: So I wanted to go over our greatest found moment, 417 00:25:43,636 --> 00:25:45,956 Speaker 1: and I want to see whether you believe this is 418 00:25:45,996 --> 00:25:50,076 Speaker 1: our greatest found moment. I called up Ben Nadaph halfway 419 00:25:50,076 --> 00:25:51,956 Speaker 1: again to talk about at the time we went to 420 00:25:51,996 --> 00:25:55,716 Speaker 1: Los Angeles for our nineteen thirty six Olympics series, and 421 00:25:55,836 --> 00:25:58,356 Speaker 1: we go and see the legendary Milan Tiff who I've 422 00:25:58,396 --> 00:26:00,956 Speaker 1: been obsessed with since I was a kid, and. 423 00:26:00,916 --> 00:26:03,436 Speaker 2: I knew I'd never heard of true form. 424 00:26:03,836 --> 00:26:06,596 Speaker 1: No one almost no one has ever heard of Milan 425 00:26:06,636 --> 00:26:10,036 Speaker 1: Tiff because he was briefly the had a triple jumper 426 00:26:10,076 --> 00:26:12,796 Speaker 1: in the world in some point in the nineteen seventies. 427 00:26:13,276 --> 00:26:15,676 Speaker 1: So you understand, it's a small universe. There's a small 428 00:26:15,756 --> 00:26:18,836 Speaker 1: universe of people who remember track and field in the seventies, 429 00:26:18,836 --> 00:26:20,756 Speaker 1: and an even smaller universe of people who followed the 430 00:26:20,756 --> 00:26:21,596 Speaker 1: triple jump. 431 00:26:21,716 --> 00:26:23,556 Speaker 8: And above that, at the top of the funnel is 432 00:26:23,556 --> 00:26:26,796 Speaker 8: people who know, yeah right, what triple Yeah right? 433 00:26:27,676 --> 00:26:30,876 Speaker 1: But Milan was this kind of spectral brilliant. He was 434 00:26:30,916 --> 00:26:34,476 Speaker 1: an artist. He spoke in these kind of these kind 435 00:26:34,476 --> 00:26:35,716 Speaker 1: of gnomic utterances. 436 00:26:36,316 --> 00:26:38,436 Speaker 2: He was one of the trippiest mornings of my life. 437 00:26:38,516 --> 00:26:41,436 Speaker 1: It was he was he was just a he was drugs. 438 00:26:41,676 --> 00:26:41,956 Speaker 3: It was. 439 00:26:42,756 --> 00:26:46,836 Speaker 1: He's so fascinating and kind of just like I immediately 440 00:26:46,876 --> 00:26:49,076 Speaker 1: knew we were in some magical universe when we went 441 00:26:49,116 --> 00:26:53,356 Speaker 1: to see Milan Tiff. Milan takes us to the UCLA 442 00:26:53,476 --> 00:26:57,156 Speaker 1: track and he wants to show us the secrets to 443 00:26:57,156 --> 00:27:00,716 Speaker 1: the triple jump, and my interest in all of this, 444 00:27:01,476 --> 00:27:03,516 Speaker 1: I'm actually because I'm a huge truck and field fan. 445 00:27:03,996 --> 00:27:06,116 Speaker 1: I am. I'm just so happy to be at the 446 00:27:06,196 --> 00:27:09,556 Speaker 1: UCLA track, and I'm aware of the fact that you don't. 447 00:27:09,996 --> 00:27:12,676 Speaker 1: You're not a track and field fan, and I'm desperate 448 00:27:12,716 --> 00:27:14,676 Speaker 1: to kind of impress upon you why this is the 449 00:27:14,676 --> 00:27:17,116 Speaker 1: greatest sport of all time and I want you to 450 00:27:17,156 --> 00:27:22,036 Speaker 1: appreciate the beauty of running, which to my mind, is 451 00:27:22,076 --> 00:27:24,196 Speaker 1: the reason you watch track and field. And so I 452 00:27:24,236 --> 00:27:26,716 Speaker 1: see out of the corner of my eye a woman 453 00:27:26,836 --> 00:27:30,396 Speaker 1: running two hundred meter intervals on the track, and I 454 00:27:30,476 --> 00:27:31,716 Speaker 1: say to you, Ben. 455 00:27:32,036 --> 00:27:32,636 Speaker 2: I could see it. 456 00:27:32,676 --> 00:27:33,276 Speaker 3: I could see it. 457 00:27:33,276 --> 00:27:34,716 Speaker 1: You could see it. You could see it. And I 458 00:27:34,796 --> 00:27:36,716 Speaker 1: said to you, I actually went back over the tape. 459 00:27:36,876 --> 00:27:38,756 Speaker 1: I said to you, I don't know who that is, 460 00:27:39,436 --> 00:27:42,916 Speaker 1: but that's a great runner. And then she got closer 461 00:27:42,956 --> 00:27:46,436 Speaker 1: and stopped and was chatting with Milan, and we go 462 00:27:46,516 --> 00:27:51,636 Speaker 1: over there and we realize it's Sydney McLoughlin's liberal here. 463 00:27:52,756 --> 00:27:54,836 Speaker 1: It's the greatest. For those who don't know who Sidney 464 00:27:54,876 --> 00:27:59,116 Speaker 1: McLaughlin is, maybe the greatest female runner of the last 465 00:27:59,116 --> 00:28:02,476 Speaker 1: one hundred years. I mean, she's the world record holder, 466 00:28:02,596 --> 00:28:05,596 Speaker 1: a zillion times, double gold medal winner in the Olympics. 467 00:28:06,316 --> 00:28:10,356 Speaker 1: Clearly the greatest American runner of her generation. And it 468 00:28:10,396 --> 00:28:12,756 Speaker 1: was a found moment here I was trying here is 469 00:28:12,796 --> 00:28:15,276 Speaker 1: I went with you to the UCLA track to try 470 00:28:15,316 --> 00:28:18,916 Speaker 1: and prove to you that there was something beautiful and 471 00:28:18,996 --> 00:28:26,396 Speaker 1: transcendent about running. And I point out my example, and 472 00:28:26,516 --> 00:28:28,876 Speaker 1: my example turns out to be the greatest runner of 473 00:28:28,916 --> 00:28:32,316 Speaker 1: her generation. It was like, it was insane serendipity. 474 00:28:32,356 --> 00:28:33,076 Speaker 3: It is incredible. 475 00:28:33,236 --> 00:28:39,916 Speaker 1: Yeah, one more thought about made things versus found things. 476 00:28:40,596 --> 00:28:44,436 Speaker 1: Not long ago, I tweeted out the following a question 477 00:28:44,516 --> 00:28:46,716 Speaker 1: that has haunted me ever since I've been forced to 478 00:28:46,756 --> 00:28:50,196 Speaker 1: read Cinderella a zillion times. Why does the coach turn 479 00:28:50,196 --> 00:28:53,436 Speaker 1: into a pumpkin, the coachman into mice, and the dress 480 00:28:53,476 --> 00:28:56,716 Speaker 1: to rags, but the magical glass slippers are fine? Did 481 00:28:56,756 --> 00:29:00,236 Speaker 1: the fairy godmother have a carve out for shoes? A 482 00:29:00,276 --> 00:29:02,756 Speaker 1: ton of people weighed in with their answers because I 483 00:29:02,756 --> 00:29:05,196 Speaker 1: don't know. It seems like a question that really needs 484 00:29:05,196 --> 00:29:09,076 Speaker 1: an answer. And my favorite was this from med lecture, 485 00:29:09,556 --> 00:29:14,116 Speaker 1: who I think is a neurologist in Switzerland, although who knows, oh, Malcolm, 486 00:29:14,396 --> 00:29:19,116 Speaker 1: Because magic and fairy tales follows symbolism, not physics. The 487 00:29:19,156 --> 00:29:23,636 Speaker 1: coach dress and servants are borrowed transformation. The slippers are 488 00:29:23,716 --> 00:29:28,036 Speaker 1: proof of identity, not escapism. If they vanished, the story 489 00:29:28,076 --> 00:29:33,236 Speaker 1: loses its logic and its justice, which is beautiful right. 490 00:29:34,156 --> 00:29:36,196 Speaker 1: And I didn't come up with that. I put the 491 00:29:36,276 --> 00:29:38,876 Speaker 1: question to all of you out there, to the listeners 492 00:29:38,956 --> 00:29:41,876 Speaker 1: of revisionist history, people who are as interested as we 493 00:29:41,916 --> 00:29:46,916 Speaker 1: are in solving lives enduring and consequential and sometimes not 494 00:29:47,036 --> 00:29:51,796 Speaker 1: so consequential mysteries. One of you, who've never met, gave 495 00:29:51,796 --> 00:29:54,516 Speaker 1: me a little gift which I can in turn share 496 00:29:54,556 --> 00:29:57,836 Speaker 1: with all of you. Forgive me. I'm going to violate 497 00:29:57,876 --> 00:30:01,396 Speaker 1: all my principles here and get sentimental. But the great 498 00:30:01,436 --> 00:30:04,236 Speaker 1: revelation of the last ten years has been how much 499 00:30:04,396 --> 00:30:07,516 Speaker 1: all of us here re visions history, have enjoyed telling 500 00:30:07,556 --> 00:30:12,116 Speaker 1: stories for all of you, you, stories about the unexpected, 501 00:30:12,316 --> 00:30:15,956 Speaker 1: captured in real time, with real voices and real emotion 502 00:30:16,236 --> 00:30:18,876 Speaker 1: and a real sense of awe, about the endless surprises 503 00:30:19,236 --> 00:30:21,956 Speaker 1: the world has in store for us. I run into 504 00:30:21,996 --> 00:30:24,676 Speaker 1: you as I'm walking down the street. We're going through 505 00:30:24,716 --> 00:30:28,156 Speaker 1: an airport, and from emails in my inbox. Let me 506 00:30:28,236 --> 00:30:30,956 Speaker 1: just say it's been one of the great joys of 507 00:30:30,956 --> 00:30:37,876 Speaker 1: my life to meet all of you Happy ten Anniversary 508 00:30:37,916 --> 00:30:49,956 Speaker 1: Revisionist History, Well it was on that. 509 00:30:51,956 --> 00:30:53,236 Speaker 10: Six farm Crime. 510 00:30:53,796 --> 00:30:56,916 Speaker 1: Revision's History is produced by Lucy Sullivan, bend at Aff Haffrey, 511 00:30:57,036 --> 00:31:00,596 Speaker 1: and Nina Bird Lawrence. Our editor is Karen Shakerji. Fact 512 00:31:00,676 --> 00:31:04,476 Speaker 1: checking by Onica Robbins. Our executive producer is Jacob Smith. 513 00:31:04,876 --> 00:31:08,356 Speaker 1: Engineering by Nina Bird Lawrence. Original music by Luis Kara, 514 00:31:08,796 --> 00:31:12,516 Speaker 1: Sound design and mastering by Jake Gorsky. Special thanks to 515 00:31:12,556 --> 00:31:16,356 Speaker 1: my mom and to Jim Sullivan, my producer, Lucy's father 516 00:31:16,796 --> 00:31:19,876 Speaker 1: for recording his very own rendition of you never even 517 00:31:19,956 --> 00:31:22,636 Speaker 1: called me by my name, which Lucy tells me her 518 00:31:22,716 --> 00:31:24,996 Speaker 1: dad sang to her all the time when she was 519 00:31:25,036 --> 00:31:29,076 Speaker 1: growing up. I'm Malcolm Baba. 520 00:31:29,036 --> 00:31:47,196 Speaker 10: And I never minded Arland but never. 521 00:31:54,036 --> 00:31:57,996 Speaker 1: Maybe this is exactly this is exactly what I needed. Oh, 522 00:31:58,156 --> 00:32:03,316 Speaker 1: very good, good, very lovely to be you welcome, Thank you, mommy. 523 00:32:03,356 --> 00:32:04,116 Speaker 1: I'll talk to you soon. 524 00:32:05,036 --> 00:32:09,396 Speaker 2: We'll talk to again, Okay, yeah,