1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 2 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 2: This is a breaking news update from Bloomberg instant reaction 3 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,959 Speaker 2: and analysis from our three thousand journalists and analysts around 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 2: the world. 5 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 3: Paul, we have some breaking news. 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 4: The Supreme Court, of course publishing its opinions today. It 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 4: has expanded the president's power to firetop officials. It refuses 8 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 4: us to let the President immediately oust Lisa Cook, however, 9 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 4: and Lisa Cook is now currently allowed to stay in 10 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 4: the job for now. 11 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 5: All right, let's bring in June Grasso, Bloomberg's legal annalys here. 12 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 2: She joins us here in studio. 13 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 5: Let's start with Lisa Cook decision here, June, can you 14 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 5: summarize what's going on here? 15 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 6: So, Lisa Cook, as you know, Federal Reserve governor and 16 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 6: Donald Trump tried to fire her on the basis of 17 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 6: allegations of mortgage fraud. So there was no any kind 18 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 6: of procedure at all before he said that. So during 19 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 6: the oral arguments, it was pretty clear that the Supreme 20 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 6: Court justices were going to vote with Lisa Cook and 21 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 6: not allow Trump to do that because of. 22 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 3: The status of the Federal Reserve. 23 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 6: And during the oral arguments there are a lot of 24 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 6: questions by the Conservatives as well about you know, why 25 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 6: was there no process here? 26 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 3: She had absolutely no process. 27 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 6: What would it take for you to have some kind 28 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 6: of hearing at least before this happened, So there was 29 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 6: concern on their part, and Justice Brett Kavanaugh had said 30 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 6: prior to that that the FED is different, so that 31 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:42,559 Speaker 6: was expected. Now as far as the Slaughter case, where 32 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 6: she's on the FTC, they say that that's different, and 33 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 6: because it's not the FED. But what this does is 34 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 6: this really expands presidential power. It means that the president 35 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 6: has the authority to fire people at the top of. 36 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 3: What like twenty agencies or so. 37 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 6: And what they've done here is they've done away with 38 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 6: Humphrey's executor, which was a decision which is standing for 39 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 6: about seventy eighty years. I think about the ability of 40 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 6: presidents to fire people, which was that there was no 41 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 6: ability for them to fire people at the head of agencies. 42 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 6: And they've been cutting back on that bit by bit 43 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 6: by bit, and now they appear to have gotten rid 44 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 6: of it since they I haven't read the opinion yet obviously, 45 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 6: since they're allowing the Slaughter to be fired. And one 46 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 6: more thing too, if you notice this week what's happening 47 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 6: and last week what's been happening is that they're releasing 48 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 6: opinions at the same time that have to do with 49 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:42,959 Speaker 6: the similar issue. 50 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 3: And what I think is happening. 51 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 6: Too, is it used to be that all the big 52 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 6: decisions were loaded to the very end the last day, 53 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 6: but now we're seeing big decisions this week and last week, 54 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 6: and I think the Chief is trying to mix it 55 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 6: up so we don't have a day on the last 56 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 6: day of the opinion and there were five sixty you know, 57 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 6: there were five six to three decisions and they were 58 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 6: all in these big cases. So I think that that's 59 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 6: what's happening here. 60 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 3: So let me just make sure I understand. 61 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 4: The Supreme Court ruled that Lisa Cook, a Federal Reserve governor, 62 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 4: can stay in her job for now. That's a that's 63 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,639 Speaker 4: a good question, but it's while litigation continues, right right, right. 64 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 6: So yeah, because they've had no litigation at all. He 65 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 6: just said, you're you know, hello, she's getting due priors. 66 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 4: In other words, well, I assume that we have to 67 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 4: see what what the what the president does? 68 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 7: Now? 69 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 3: Are they going to go forward with this? 70 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 6: Are they going to bother to go forward with this 71 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 6: and have it litigated, probably, And she's got one of 72 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 6: the best Supreme Court litigators around, the former former Solicitor 73 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 6: General Paul Clement, who is just really his record at 74 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 6: the Supreme Court is phenomenal, and I think he is 75 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 6: the one who has argued the most cases at the Court. 76 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 6: And you can see the deference the Justice is paid. 77 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 3: To him when when he's arguing. 78 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 6: So, I mean that will go on, her litigation will 79 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 6: go on to you know, to stop this, but you know, 80 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 6: by the time, who knows, by the time it gets done, 81 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 6: Trump could be. 82 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 3: Out of office. I mean, the way these things drag on. 83 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 4: So the president's efforts to push her out of the 84 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 4: Central Banks. 85 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 3: Board, that is not that failed. 86 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 4: That failed, But and you were saying that his ability 87 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 4: to oust other government agency leaders. 88 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, this has been expanded. 89 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 7: Right. 90 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 6: This is all part of the theory called the unitary 91 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 6: executive theory. I don't know if you've heard about it, 92 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 6: but it's like that this people who believe that the 93 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 6: power of the executive branch should be in the president. 94 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 6: So all these agencies are executive branch agency, so the 95 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 6: president should have the ability to fire the people who 96 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 6: are in charge of the executive branch agencies. 97 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 3: But I mean, you know, the FED is different, The 98 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 3: FED is different. 99 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 6: But I mean, so with with the normal president or 100 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 6: the prior presidents, you wouldn't worry about what was going 101 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 6: to happen because there wouldn't. 102 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 3: Be a wholesale you're fired. 103 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 6: But you know, this opens the door and people have 104 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 6: been worried about them doing away with that Humphrey's executive opinion. 105 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:05,239 Speaker 2: And so the risk there. 106 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 5: Is that these agencies perhaps lose some of their independence. 107 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, yeah, because you know, if if the president 108 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 6: doesn't like what you're doing, you're fired, you know. 109 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,359 Speaker 3: But I mean in reality, he is controlling. 110 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 6: He has put most people in those agency heads right 111 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 6: talking about the FCC and things like that. So I 112 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 6: don't know that they we'll see anything happening right away. 113 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 3: But it's a huge win. 114 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 6: And this court, as you know, has been expanding presidential 115 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 6: power over and over again. I mean, you had those 116 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 6: decisions where you know, nothing the president does in office 117 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 6: in his duties, can he be prosecuted for or so. 118 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 6: I mean, this court just believes in presidential power. 119 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 3: And one has to. 120 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 6: Wonder when the next president comes in if they're not Republican, 121 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 6: what whether they'll start cutting. 122 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 3: Back on presidential power. 123 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 4: I mean, I think it's worth noting here that stocks 124 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:03,559 Speaker 4: fell to session low, are maybe not fall they paired 125 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 4: their gains, and we're at session lows right around the 126 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 4: time that this opinion was published. They've since come back 127 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,359 Speaker 4: a little bit and we're looking at modest gains in 128 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 4: the SMP down Nasdaq. The Russell two thousand is lower 129 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 4: by one point one percent. So among the headlines that 130 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 4: we got is the Supreme Court letting Lisa Cook, a 131 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 4: Federal Reserve governor, stay in her job. This is a 132 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 4: case that really tested the central banks independence from the 133 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 4: White House. So this is a defeat for the president's 134 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 4: efforts to ouster over these mortgage fraud allegations. At the 135 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 4: same time, we also heard that the Supreme Court has 136 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 4: basically said that the mail in ballots can arrive. 137 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 3: After election date. 138 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 4: That's another defeat for the president, and certainly this is 139 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 4: relevant given that we're at a midyear, midterm election year. 140 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 4: On the other hand, and June, this is where it 141 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 4: gets a little complicated. The other government agencies are not 142 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 4: seen as independent really because the president can and let 143 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 4: go of whoever he wants to. 144 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 6: Yeah, and I you know, I'm trying to pull up 145 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 6: the opinion just to see what they're you know, how 146 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 6: they how they parsed out these two these two cases. 147 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 6: But I'm not getting it. I'm not getting it. I 148 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 6: guess that's fresh refresh. 149 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 2: How about this mailet? 150 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 5: This ballot case just gives your thoughts on. 151 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 6: That that was That was a surprise, actually the ballot case, 152 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 6: because that's about Mississippi has a law, as do more 153 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 6: than twenty other states, that as long as the ballot 154 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,239 Speaker 6: is postmarked by election day, it can come in five 155 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 6: days up to five days after and it'll still be counted. 156 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 6: So the Republicans were against this. Obviously, President Trump is 157 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 6: against this and any kind of mail in ballots, and 158 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 6: during the oral arguments, a lot of the Conservatives seemed 159 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 6: to be in favorite, although the Chief Justice and Justice 160 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 6: Barrett were wondering, well would this effect what about states that. 161 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 3: Have all mail in ballots? If we say that? 162 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 6: So, the argument is in the Constitution says election day 163 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 6: is this day, so you shouldn't be extending it any further. Well, 164 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 6: if you can't extend it further, then can you go 165 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 6: you know, can you also say, well, they can come 166 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 6: in ahead of time. So I think that was part 167 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 6: of the reasoning. And Justice Barrett wrote the opinion. But 168 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 6: so that's a huge surprise. And it was five to four, 169 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 6: and so the most conservative in the in the no column. 170 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 3: And so that's big because that could have affected the. 171 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 6: Elections the midterms coming up in so many states, more 172 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 6: than twenty. So that's actually a big decision and it 173 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 6: is a surprise. 174 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,599 Speaker 5: Okay, very good, Drian, thank you so much, appreciate it. 175 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 5: June Grosso was a legal analyst for Bloomberg News. We'll 176 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 5: let her go back and do that lawyer thing like 177 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 5: actually read the cave this. 178 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 4: We would put her in an unfair position because she 179 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 4: was working without the texts. 180 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 2: I just want the AI like cliff notes. 181 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 3: Oh, thanks a lot. 182 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 2: I'll be leaving on one pager. Dard, thanks so much. 183 00:08:58,200 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 2: We appreciate that. As always. 184 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 5: It's good lah Stein litigation analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence. All 185 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 5: I want to go to the Lisa Cook caste for me. 186 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: For now. 187 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 5: What is for now means that she can stay in 188 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 5: her job for now? 189 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. 190 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 8: Well, this whole appeal was based on a preliminary ruling 191 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 8: by the trial court earlier in the case saying that 192 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 8: she could stay in her position while the rest of 193 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 8: the case would continue. And so that's really the issue 194 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 8: that the Supreme Court was looking at, and they said, yes, 195 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 8: she can stay in her position. But the real important 196 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 8: part of the ruling is that they said the four 197 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 8: cause removal restriction requires that she have some sort of 198 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 8: notice and opportunity to be heard, which the President and 199 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 8: the administration did not offer her. 200 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: So that's sort of the crux of the ruling. 201 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 4: Okay, so her litigation can continue, or the White Houses litigation. 202 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 3: Can continue as well. Who hears this case? 203 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: So this will go back to the lower courts. 204 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 8: And I said preface this by saying, I haven't read 205 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 8: before vicasion. I've read the brief summary you reference, you 206 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 8: know you want, but the Supreme Court sort of gives 207 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 8: you a brief summary at the beginning of the opinion, 208 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 8: which I skimmed. But I think the way it's going 209 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 8: to proceed is that it will be sent back down 210 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 8: to the trial court for them to issue a final ruling. 211 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 8: But the administration, presumably if they want, will have to 212 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 8: offer her some sort of notice an opportunity to be heard. 213 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 8: If they want to be able to continue to try 214 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 8: to fire her. 215 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: Otherwise the trial court is going to ruin her favor. 216 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 5: So to the extend the administration one to extend litigation, 217 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 5: would it shud been known to do in the past. 218 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 5: What's a timeline for a case like this, because I'm 219 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 5: wondering if does she have to worry about you know, 220 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 5: is this something that could take dragon for years, in 221 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 5: which case the ministry Trump administration will you know end 222 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 5: or how does that be? 223 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean it's a little unclear exactly how it's 224 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 8: going to proceed. Presumably, if the Trump administration continues to 225 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 8: want to remove her from the FED based on these 226 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 8: accusations of mortgage fraud, they'll have to have some sort 227 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 8: of proceeding, not a full trial, but some sort of 228 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 8: like administrative proceeding where she can present her defenses. If 229 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 8: the administration doesn't want to do that, the case is 230 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 8: essentially over. The trial court will rule in her favor 231 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 8: and say there was no notice an opportunity to be 232 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 8: heard pursue into what the Supreme Court said this morning. 233 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 4: Okay, so is the Supreme Court role in Lisa Cook 234 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 4: done for now? 235 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: For now? 236 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 8: It could always come back later, because I don't know 237 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:43,199 Speaker 8: if we have real resolution on substantively what cause requires. Right, 238 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 8: we sort of know now procedurally what it requires. I'm 239 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 8: not sure that the Supreme Court, I haven't read the 240 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 8: full opinion. Again, I'm not sure they got into the 241 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 8: actual definition. 242 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 1: Of what foroe cause requires substantively. 243 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 4: Okay, what does this say about how the Supreme Court 244 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 4: views the federers are versus other government agencies. 245 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 8: Yeah, this is a very good point because the other opinion, 246 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 8: one of the other opinions that they issued but simultaneously 247 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 8: with the Cook decision, was the Rebecca Slaughter opinion. She 248 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 8: was an FTC commissioner, as you would call. President Trump 249 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 8: fired multiple commissioners from independent agencies who were appointed by Democrats. 250 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: For the most part, she challenged that, as. 251 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,719 Speaker 8: Did many other commissioners, and the Supreme Court early on 252 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 8: sort of hinted that the president would be able to 253 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 8: fire these other commissioners of independent agencies. But the Federal 254 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 8: Reserve is different, and we saw that very clearly today 255 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 8: because the Supreme Court said that the President could indeed 256 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 8: fire Rebecca Slaughter and other independent commissioners. I haven't read 257 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 8: that opinion either, but presumably they overruled the Humphrey's Executor 258 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 8: decision from ninety years ago, which established that the four 259 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 8: cause removal restriction was constitutional for independent agents. He's I 260 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,599 Speaker 8: suspect now they're going to say it's unconstitutional. 261 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 5: I feel like this today was a win. I think 262 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 5: that that Slaughter case is huge. 263 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 8: The slaughtercase is a big deal. It's absolutely yeah. But 264 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 8: that's not just a win for Trump. That's a win 265 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 8: for the executive branch, because your next president who comes 266 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 8: in can fire any commissioner of an independent agency appointed 267 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 8: by a Republican the better. 268 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 2: Way to president. It's a win for the executive Yeah. 269 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 8: And he's going to be very upset about the Lisa 270 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 8: Cook decision. And also he in an earlier order it 271 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 8: sounded like he lost his cert petition on the mail 272 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 8: in ballot and on the mail in ballots and the 273 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 8: Jane Carol right exactly going on, so that he's probably 274 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 8: going to be hited this afternoon. 275 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 2: A branch though I'm not sure that. 276 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:47,079 Speaker 1: I mean so. 277 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 5: Now, the question for a lot of just scholars, constitutional scholars, 278 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 5: is isn't it aren't these agencies their ability to be independent? 279 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 2: Isn't that a good thing? And I guess that's the 280 00:13:58,080 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 2: debate run. 281 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 8: So you have to balance that on the one hand 282 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 8: versus this theory called the unitary executive theory, that the 283 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:09,439 Speaker 8: president should be able to hire and fire anyone he 284 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 8: wants and the executive brands, and that he oversees the 285 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 8: entire executive brands. And if you have these independent commissioneries 286 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 8: that the president can fire, you almost have this fourth 287 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 8: branch of government. 288 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: That's the counter argument. Interesting. 289 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 4: Okay, we have some comments from Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts. 290 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 4: She is commenting on the Lisa Cook Supreme Court decision, 291 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 4: says we'll keep fighting back against attacks on the Fed. 292 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 4: She also talks about Bill Poulti and how he can't 293 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 4: be trusted should be removed, but that's separate from again 294 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 4: her comments on Lisa Cook and how, according to Senator Warren, 295 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 4: she or her party will keep fighting back against these 296 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 4: attacks on the Federal Reserve. What are the White House's 297 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 4: options now? How does it move forward with Lisa Cook specifically? 298 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 8: Well, I think if they want to continue to go 299 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 8: after her for these accusations of mortgage fraud, they can, 300 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 8: but they'll have to have some sort of proceeding where 301 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 8: she's allowed to present her defenses. I think that's basically it. 302 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 8: It's unclear exactly what that looks like. The Supreme Court, 303 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 8: in the summary that I was able to read before 304 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 8: coming on, said it doesn't have to be a full 305 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 8: blown trial, but they have to give her some opportunity 306 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 8: to be heard and present her defenses. 307 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 4: And just to put some context on Senator Warren's comments 308 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 4: about Bill POULTI Bill Poulty was the one who brought 309 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 4: up the fact that Lisa Cook perhaps had these misrepresented 310 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 4: her mortgage application, right because he was the head of 311 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 4: the FHFA, and he brought it to the President's attention, 312 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 4: and that kind of got everything started, Paul with this 313 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 4: allegation of mortgage fraud. 314 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 5: So if I'm an agency head appointed by anybody other 315 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 5: than Donald Trump, am I nervous about my job today? 316 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: Probably? But I think he's already fired most of the 317 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: ones he wants to fire. 318 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 8: I mean, I'm serious. Look at the CFTC. You have 319 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 8: one chairman and that's it. No other commissioneris and so 320 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 8: you know the effect of that is you don't have 321 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 8: You're probably not going to change the votes because you're 322 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 8: always going to It was always tradition that the chair 323 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 8: would resign and let the incoming president appoint someone from 324 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 8: his own party. But you're not going to have the 325 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 8: scenting voices now to push back on the majority in 326 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 8: these agencies. And I think that's really the big effect. 327 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 4: Is how much of this is a surprise. What surprises 328 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 4: you about this string of decisions? 329 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: Nothing. 330 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 8: This was exactly as we anticipated that Humphrey's executor would 331 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 8: be overruled. The president would be able to fire commissioners 332 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 8: of independent agencies under the unitary executive theory. But the 333 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 8: Supreme Court gave us hints as far back as last 334 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 8: year that the Federal Reserve is different just based on 335 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 8: it said that it has a unique structure or a 336 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 8: unique history. 337 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: It's not really. 338 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 8: It's sort of this quasi private entity because it has 339 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 8: a mix of being a government entity and also private 340 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 8: sector members who or at least private sector members who 341 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 8: vote in some of the regional bank. So it didn't 342 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 8: come as a surprise. We thought the fair would be 343 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 8: treated differently. 344 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 3: Millon Bellot, was that a surprise. 345 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: That's a little bit of a surprise. I don't follow 346 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 1: that case. 347 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 8: It doesn't have a huge doesn't have a business impact fair, 348 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 8: But yes, I would say it's a little bit of 349 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 8: a surprise, and I think June priorly touched on that earlier. 350 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 5: All Right, good elliot Stein, great stuff as always Eliot Stein, 351 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 5: Bloomberg intelligence litigation analyst. 352 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 2: See that law school paid. 353 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 5: Off totally and he started strong Stanford and then he 354 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 5: took a long term film the law school. 355 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 4: I mean he did that all without the benefit of 356 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 4: reading the full time. So thank you Elliott for doing 357 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 4: that exactly. 358 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 5: Thomack Kendall joins us here. She is outside of the 359 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 5: Supreme Court. She's a Bloomberg News Washington correspondent, Tyler. What's 360 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 5: the feeling do you think within what do you think 361 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 5: the takeaway will be from this president from this administration 362 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 5: about this busy, busy day of Supreme Court rulings. 363 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 3: Well, by and. 364 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 7: Large, Paul, the administration got a win when it comes 365 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 7: to the Trumpet Slaughter case, essentially expanding the president's authority 366 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 7: to remove independent heads of independent agencies. Rebecca Slaughter was 367 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 7: the last Democratic commissioner on the Federal Trade Commission, so 368 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 7: that is considered to be a win for the Trump administration. 369 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 7: Not necessarily a surprising decision. The justices had been a 370 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 7: little bit wary of the idea that the president wouldn't 371 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 7: be able to remove officials that are accountable to the 372 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 7: executive branch. But the Lisa Cook decision means that she 373 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 7: can stay in her job, at least for now, which 374 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 7: means that that legal fight does continue. The justices did 375 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 7: not weigh in on whether or not they believed that 376 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 7: the Trump administration's accusations rise to the level that Lisa 377 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 7: Cook should be fired, which means this is still a 378 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 7: stay tuned situation. But by and large, that part of 379 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 7: the decisions today does mark at least partially a setback for. 380 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 3: This White House. 381 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 4: So when it comes to Lisa Cook, I guess a 382 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 4: lot of people are wondering what that means for j. Powell, 383 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 4: because the former FED chair had said that he would 384 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 4: stay on the Federal Reserve Board until legal issues are resolved, 385 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 4: and maybe Lisa Cook. 386 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 1: Was one of them. 387 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 4: But I guess the FED renovation and the DOJ's action 388 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 4: against the FED and JAPAU specifically, it's still out there, 389 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 4: isn't it. 390 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 7: Yeah, And it could come back up. There were a 391 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 7: few different threads that we were watching in this case, Scarlett. 392 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 7: One is the idea of equities. Basically that the justices 393 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 7: were looking into what the broad range impacts would be 394 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 7: when it comes to the Federal Reserve and what would 395 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,640 Speaker 7: happen to the US economy if a governor was removed. 396 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 7: And I bring that up because we heard this be 397 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 7: one of the main arguments from one of the conservative justices, 398 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 7: Brett Kavanaugh. His line of questioning back when this case 399 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 7: was heard in January very much focused on this. I'm 400 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 7: trying to find the quote at the time he said 401 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 7: that if Lisa Cook was removed, it would quote weaken, 402 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,679 Speaker 7: if not shatter, the independence of the FED. And today 403 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 7: the decision was five to four, and that included Brett 404 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 7: Kavanaugh siding with the liberal justices on this court in 405 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 7: favor of Lisa Cook being able to keep her job 406 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 7: for now. 407 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,640 Speaker 3: So that's probably a thread that would make. 408 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 7: Its way through if a case against Powell ultimately came up. 409 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 7: And the second is the idea that Lisa Cook wasn't 410 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 7: given essentially due process in responding to the allegations against 411 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 7: her before she was fired. You remember when all of 412 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 7: this was happening, and essentially she was fired via a 413 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 7: tweet from President Trump without much chance to respond to 414 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 7: the allegations that were posted on social media. So there 415 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 7: are a lot of different factors in this case, but 416 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 7: by and large, it is taken to mean that the 417 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 7: Supreme Court bolstered the independence of the Central Bank. 418 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: Tyler. 419 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 5: We also had a ruling Supreme Court earlier today left 420 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 5: intact a jury's finding that Donald Trump sexually abused and 421 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 5: defamed the writer e Gen Carol, putting her in line 422 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 5: to collect a five lane. 423 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 2: Dollar award from the president. What is the president tom 424 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 2: in on this particular case, So we. 425 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 7: Haven't heard from him yet today, and the justices didn't 426 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 7: really provide much of an explanation for this decision. But 427 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 7: this probably isn't going to be something that President Trump 428 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 7: is too happy with. This does deal essentially a final 429 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 7: blow to President Trump's efforts to thought and one of 430 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 7: the most significant legal cases against him. It was another 431 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 7: one that we were tracking closely, but it wasn't heard 432 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 7: in the standard term of this Supreme Court, so we 433 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 7: came out earlier this morning instead of with this ruling. Instead, 434 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 7: we just got this Supreme Court decision, which means that 435 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 7: President Trump is going to have to pay that five 436 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 7: million dollar. 437 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 4: Judgment all in all, Tyler, what do you expect in 438 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 4: terms of the presidents of giving some kind of response. 439 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 4: How does he usually respond to these kinds of decisions. 440 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 4: Will it be on truth social? Do you think do 441 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 4: we expect to him to hold a news conference, for instance? 442 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 3: What will you be looking for. 443 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 7: I would expect that we'll probably we'll probably get a 444 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 7: posed out on truth social today. President Trump actually doesn't 445 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 7: have any public events on his schedule. That doesn't mean 446 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 7: that some of the closed door events couldn't open up. 447 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 7: He does have a few different policy meetings that we're 448 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 7: tracking closely today, but this case was one where President 449 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 7: Trump was heavily involved in. We're also waiting, likely later 450 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 7: this week to get a decision on the other really 451 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 7: console consequential case that we're watching for, which is birthright citizenship. 452 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 7: And I was actually here at the court back in 453 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 7: April when President Trump came here too. He very clearly 454 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 7: wanted to make his opinion known when it comes to 455 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 7: the justices trying to figure out the legality of his 456 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 7: executive order that deals with ending automatic birthright citizenship. I 457 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 7: would expect him to be very vocal when we get 458 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 7: that decision, likely later this week. We could maybe see 459 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 7: it early next week if the Supreme Court adds a 460 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 7: date in early July, but we're really expecting that to 461 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 7: be later the speak. So it could potentially be two 462 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 7: blows to the Trump administration's agenda when it comes to 463 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 7: the Lisa Cook case and what appears to be a 464 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 7: weariness around the Trump administration's argument related to birthright citizenship. 465 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 4: Oh, thank you for spinning a forward for us, Tyler. 466 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 4: Tyler Kendall's our chief Washington correspondent, of course, giving us 467 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 4: the latest with regards to the Supreme Court letting Lisa Cook, 468 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 4: a Federal Reserve governor, stay in her job for now. 469 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 4: We're going to get into what all this means and 470 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 4: what this means in terms of what the Fed looks 471 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 4: like now that the Supreme Court has made this ruling. 472 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 4: Gotham Makonda is lecturer at the Yale School of Management 473 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 4: and a Bloomberg Opinion contributor. He writes regularly on issues 474 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 4: of management, the intersection of policy and business. Got them 475 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 4: your initial thoughts on this headline The ruling from the 476 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 4: Supreme Court that it has allowed Lisa Cook to stay 477 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 4: in her job for now, and it has pretty much 478 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 4: signaled that the Federal Reserve is different than other government agencies. 479 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 9: Yeah, it's not a surprising ruling, because the Court has 480 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 9: already signaled that it so that Federal Reserve is different. 481 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 9: I think the striking thing about it is the extent 482 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 9: to which the Court has basically just abandoned jurisprudence and 483 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 9: as saying, we like the Federal Reserve, we think it's 484 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 9: really important, so we're going to treat it as a 485 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 9: special case, whereas every other government agency. And they also 486 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 9: announced it right that this was another one of the 487 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 9: rulings today that the president does have the power to 488 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 9: fire FTC commissioners. Every other government agency gets treated like 489 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 9: upon the president. But somehow, for mystical reasons, we will 490 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 9: not really specify the Federal Reserve is special. 491 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 10: Okay, I guess it is. 492 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 5: We were informed by you know, a couple of our 493 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 5: guests legal backgrounds, that there's some theory out there that says, hey, 494 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 5: you know, the universal kind of thing. I'm not sure 495 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 5: what it's called, but basically says, the president should be 496 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 5: able to do all this stuff. It's his or her administration, 497 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 5: and so the president should be able to appoint who 498 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 5: they want in these agencies. 499 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 9: And so the theory is the unitary executive that's what 500 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 9: they're referring to. It's the idea that every single person 501 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 9: in the executive branch is kind of like the fingers 502 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 9: of the hand of the president. The unitary executive theory 503 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 9: is something that was invented quite recently, really in the 504 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 9: nineteen seventies. If you'd taken it to one of the founders, 505 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 9: they would have just been baffled. But just to demonstrate 506 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 9: how it breaks down so completely, inspector general Inspectors general, 507 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 9: the people whose job it is to identify fraud and 508 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 9: you know, tell us that, you know, the president or 509 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 9: his or his appointees is stealing from the American public, 510 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 9: are also members of the executive branch. So if the 511 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 9: unitary executive theory was true, then it would be a 512 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,120 Speaker 9: power of the president to order inspector generals to cover 513 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 9: up for his own crimes. 514 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 10: If that makes sense to you, then you believe in 515 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 10: the unitary executive. 516 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 4: Wow, Okay, I had to think about that one for 517 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 4: a little bit. But that is saying something. So this 518 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 4: idea that the Federal Reserve is different. Can the Trump 519 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 4: administration do anything else in its you know, quest to 520 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 4: remake the FED or is this something where they kind 521 00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 4: of just have to call it an l and step 522 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 4: How are you thinking this through? 523 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 9: Well, the ruling is a fo now ruling, right, So 524 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 9: what they're presumably going to do is then continue on 525 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 9: with the litigation against Lisa Cook in the hope of 526 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 9: either winning a conviction or just you know, draining her 527 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 9: resources and her resolve to such an extent that she 528 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 9: steps down. I don't think either of those will work, 529 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 9: because the charges against her are on their face quite absurd, 530 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 9: and she doesn't seem like the sort of person who's 531 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 9: going to back down in the face of this kind 532 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 9: of an assault. 533 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 10: But this story is not over. We're just we just 534 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 10: ended one chapter. 535 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 2: President Trumps out with a tweet just now. 536 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 5: Of course, I'm sure you're not surprised, but basically touting 537 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 5: the Slaughter case as a all caps big win here 538 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,919 Speaker 5: and really saying this is, you know, presidents have been 539 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 5: trying to do this since the nineteen thirties. Again, try 540 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 5: and put this into context. It seems like a win 541 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 5: for not just Donald Trump, but for the executive branch. 542 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 5: But again, and maybe it's a it's a real loss 543 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 5: for independence. 544 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 2: It's tough. I'm not sure how you weigh those two things. 545 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:02,159 Speaker 1: That's right. 546 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 9: So it is clearly the Supreme Court and Chief Justice 547 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 9: Roberts in particular, and you know, has a long history 548 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 9: of just saying that he wants to concentrate power in 549 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 9: the hands of the executive branch and in the hands 550 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 9: of the Court. And we should note, right, it's not 551 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,160 Speaker 9: just the executive branch, it's the Court, because the Court 552 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 9: has arrogated it two itself, the ability to say that 553 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 9: we you know, we can at any time make up 554 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 9: rules that say that, hey, the executive branch doesn't. 555 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 10: Have this power. 556 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 9: But okay, so they've done that, and they've contracted these 557 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 9: powers into the Court, into the Court and of the 558 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 9: executive branch. 559 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 10: That is a big win. But there's some There are 560 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 10: two sets of questions here. 561 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 9: One is, are these powers that this Court is going 562 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 9: to allocate to all presidents or is it just going 563 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 9: to be presidents that it seems to like. And I 564 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 9: don't think we know the answer to that yet. And 565 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 9: second is, you know, a different president who had a 566 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 9: much more ambitious view of what they wanted to do 567 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 9: in policy. And I can tell you the Democrats are 568 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 9: already talking about how they can use the powers that 569 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 9: the Court has given the executive when they take office, 570 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 9: is going to use this in a very very different 571 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 9: ways ways that I suspect Chief Office Roberts is not 572 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 9: going to lif