Speaker 1: I think at this point, having hung out with you
Speaker 1: for a while, that I could do word associations and
Speaker 1: be like desk lamp, and you'd be like Steelhead, Honda Accord, Steelhead.
Speaker 1: Everything reminds you of Steelhead. I wouldn't feel quite comfortable
Speaker 1: like Steelhead. Fishing somewhere where there isn't graffiti. I'm your
Speaker 1: bridges and stuff are shopping cards in the river. I'm
Speaker 1: Joe sur Melly. I caught a snakehead. It was ten pounds.
Speaker 1: Why doesn't everybody like snakeheads? It's like toys for tots,
Speaker 1: only it's scrap led for Bob the garbage man and
Speaker 1: maybe Kenny the Benny if he gets out of the
Speaker 1: rehabs to him. Good morning to generate anglers and welcome
Speaker 1: to Ben the fishing podcast that believes that Thanksgiving is
Speaker 1: just deployed by big Turkey Farma to offload more of
Speaker 1: their dry, disgusting godzilla birds, which anglers will eat while
Speaker 1: scoffing at farm ray salmon. I'm Joe Surmelli. I'm hating sama.
Speaker 1: Is that a turkey farming joke? It could be. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know anyway, So you know, on
Speaker 1: this week's show here, we're gonna we're gonna have a
Speaker 1: little We're gonna have a little fun with some some
Speaker 1: questionable choices in waiting. Right, we're gonna talk Thanksgiving Eve,
Speaker 1: watering holes, um, and shady black Friday gear deals. But first, Hayden,
Speaker 1: what sir did you do for Thanksgiving? Well? I was
Speaker 1: hoping to head back east, as you know. In fact,
Speaker 1: you and I were talking about linking up and doing
Speaker 1: a little fishing, but I ended up just kicking around Bozeman. Yeah,
Speaker 1: i'd say you did, because you're not here, you're not working.
Speaker 1: We did a wild game friends giving out here and
Speaker 1: then went out and did some fishing. Yep, and it
Speaker 1: was a good time was had by all. There You
Speaker 1: go into anything good? Uh Nope, Nope, not at all.
Speaker 1: We we hosted, We hosted, which is fine, right, But
Speaker 1: between hosting and now, you know, I have little kids
Speaker 1: the days of some kind of like dawn patrol mission,
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving more and long over, or at least I should
Speaker 1: say they're on hiatus for a while. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: I can't just like bail and walk into a hot
Speaker 1: meal like I used to. It just doesn't work anymore.
Speaker 1: I actually I get more excited about getting outside, um
Speaker 1: the following days right after Thanksgiving, but the actual day
Speaker 1: is it's a it's a bit mellow for me, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's just my parents were over, which is nice,
Speaker 1: but it's not like a big extravaganza capped off like
Speaker 1: in the old days by your mom and aunts all
Speaker 1: like running to Kmart at midnight for the Black Friday sale,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Um, speaking of which, speaking
Speaker 1: of Black Friday, you're perpetually broke as shit, so i'd
Speaker 1: imagine you're probably gonna seize the opportunity to knock out
Speaker 1: some you know, discount Black Friday holiday shopping. Yes, maybe
Speaker 1: am broke a ship, Joe, that's I know. I had
Speaker 1: no idea Boson was going to cause him basically the
Speaker 1: same as New York City. I mean a little surprise. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean mostly it's because I'm like terribly responsible and
Speaker 1: by all sorts of gear. But that's not really here
Speaker 1: North there. I do intend to take advantage of some
Speaker 1: Black Friday sales though these days, you know, at least
Speaker 1: per tv uh, they start in September and you never
Speaker 1: actually have to go to a store. That's true. You
Speaker 1: start hearing about Black Friday in September. Yeah, exactly exactly,
Speaker 1: which reminds me that Meat Eaters Black Friday sale just
Speaker 1: kicked off a few days ago. So if anybody listening
Speaker 1: is looking to save a little on first light year
Speaker 1: meat Eater gear f HF and so on and so forth,
Speaker 1: head on over to the meat eater dot com and
Speaker 1: check that out. Yeah, you absolutely should do that. And
Speaker 1: in other shopping news. Um, while it's it's not marked
Speaker 1: down for Black Friday, I'm afraid I am pretty pumped
Speaker 1: to announce that you can now purchase select rods and
Speaker 1: reels from our sponsors thirteen Fishing directly on the Meat
Speaker 1: Eater website, which is pretty cool. Um. And many of
Speaker 1: those selections were picked by me. Um, and there are
Speaker 1: there are a lot of the rods and reels that
Speaker 1: you've seen me used in the last two seasons of
Speaker 1: B Side Fishing. Um. Now, if you if you're crazy
Speaker 1: broke like Hayden broke, like Mega broke, right I did?
Speaker 1: I do also have a recommendation for a less reputable
Speaker 1: dealer of fishing. Weares um you're okay with buying secondhand
Speaker 1: man like you got issue with that? I don't think so,
Speaker 1: but it depends on what it is. But I mean
Speaker 1: it's yeah, okay, well what about an item that perhaps
Speaker 1: fell off one truck and ended up on another. Uh what,
Speaker 1: never mind, never mind, forget I said that. Uh anyhow, Look,
Speaker 1: we recently got a message. It's it is sketchy, isn't it.
Speaker 1: We recently got a message from our dear friend and
Speaker 1: striper chunking expert, Bob the garbage Man Britona out a
Speaker 1: newski and I assumed it would be a fishing report
Speaker 1: because it's still peaked striper season out here. Um, but
Speaker 1: I think this was actually intended for you, man, Like
Speaker 1: he specifically left me a note that said, like even
Speaker 1: you could afford this ship, and he might even be
Speaker 1: willing to extend you some further discounts. It's bad when
Speaker 1: even like Bob the garbage Man is taking pity on you. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: it is. Anyway, getting into the holiday spirit, I figured
Speaker 1: i'd i'd pay, asked the deals and savings onto our listeners.
Speaker 1: Bob seems to be uh we'll say, he's he's quite
Speaker 1: the rush right to unload this stuff, so you guys
Speaker 1: might might want to act fast. Uh, And he's selling
Speaker 1: a bunch of well just listen, just take a listen.
Speaker 1: This is above the garbage man Bartana no a Newski,
Speaker 1: president of Bob's Discount Tackle Emporium or whatever, which is
Speaker 1: located in the rented ride of moving truck park behind
Speaker 1: Lucky Wayne's mother's row home. Anyway, he's need to buy
Speaker 1: ship for the sorry excuse for a stripe of fisherman
Speaker 1: in your life. And let me tell you everything. I
Speaker 1: got his price to move, but one day only by
Speaker 1: any NASCAR commemorative plate, get too free. Drill a hole
Speaker 1: in him, attach a big travel hook, and your mouke
Speaker 1: husband won't know. They ain't the same bunk of spoons.
Speaker 1: Every lazy sack of shit troller he idolizes on the
Speaker 1: internets is pulling around the harbor. Use heard of the
Speaker 1: tickle me Elmo? We got the tickle a momo. It's
Speaker 1: just a piece of broom handle with two google eyes
Speaker 1: super lute on it. Stick it in a glass case.
Speaker 1: Tell your boyfriend it's a limit edition plug from some
Speaker 1: Rhode Island tool shed. He'll think you spend more than
Speaker 1: the two dollars I'm asking. And everybody's happy, especially him,
Speaker 1: because he don't actually fish anyway. Well, so if you
Speaker 1: need something for the mini mooks in your life, I
Speaker 1: got a float of official Disney ball caps. They got
Speaker 1: Tom and Jerry on them as some ship. I take
Speaker 1: twenty bucks apiece just to get rid of them. Finally,
Speaker 1: remember another, says Mary Christmers. Look scrap lead undo the
Speaker 1: Hanuka bush. So if you got any, bring it down
Speaker 1: when you stop by the store. It's like toys for tots,
Speaker 1: only it's scraped lead for Bob the garbage man and
Speaker 1: maybe Kenny the Benny if he gets out of the
Speaker 1: rehab soon. For every pound we receive, I'll probably donate
Speaker 1: at least fifty of that to a near show underwater environment.
Speaker 1: So come on down and climb into our rented truck
Speaker 1: late at night. If we ain't here, come back later.
Speaker 1: But do not do not knock on the door because
Speaker 1: Wayne's mother is sick. It sleeps like twenty two hours
Speaker 1: a day. Jesus man, I actually kind of regret sharing that. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, if you if you ever to like take
Speaker 1: him up on some of those like really exciting deals there,
Speaker 1: make sure you bring a buddy and let at least
Speaker 1: a couple of people know exactly where you are and
Speaker 1: what time to call the cops if you're not back
Speaker 1: you know anyhow, Um, speaking of deals, right, I thought
Speaker 1: I thought an honor of Black Friday and uh and shopping,
Speaker 1: we could play a little game. What's that all right?
Speaker 1: Well everyone knows, right. I think you can really get
Speaker 1: some really good deals out of infomercials if you if
Speaker 1: you call like while they're playing, right, good deals scams
Speaker 1: six and one half exactly, sham wow, sham not wow. Whatever. Well,
Speaker 1: this idea came to me. So I was half asleep
Speaker 1: on the couch not long ago, trying to get over
Speaker 1: that cold I had when I sounded like assid on
Speaker 1: this show. Um, and you know when you're sick, and
Speaker 1: I passed it on the couch, Yeah yeah, yeah whatever,
Speaker 1: ZINGI zon me, zing me anyway, you know when you're
Speaker 1: just sick and you're like pass that on the couch
Speaker 1: and like you're kind of in and out of it.
Speaker 1: I passed that and like woke up and there was
Speaker 1: some infomercial on. Now in between, like drifting off to dreamland,
Speaker 1: I would just catch little snippets of them describing what
Speaker 1: they were selling. And I got to thinking, right, there
Speaker 1: are so many well known cult classic infomercials for fishing gear,
Speaker 1: like every angler knows them and and makes fun of them. Right,
Speaker 1: so would you be able? I thought to recognize them
Speaker 1: by just a quick SoundBite. I think I see where
Speaker 1: you're going with this, Yes you do. So here we go,
Speaker 1: right and honor Black Friday. I created a little game
Speaker 1: for you to play. Okay, we're gonna test your metal.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna see you up a couple of clips. Well
Speaker 1: we'll pepper something throughout the show here, and you're gonna
Speaker 1: guess is it fishing gear or exercise equipment that they're
Speaker 1: trying to sell you based just on this one clip?
Speaker 1: All right, they're all one or the other. Nice, I
Speaker 1: like it all right? Here here comes clip number one
Speaker 1: three of this random directional action. It goes out down
Speaker 1: sideways all over the place. We think, man, what's being
Speaker 1: sold there? Fishy stuff or exercise equipment. It's either like
Speaker 1: one of those like Darta round soft plastics, or it's
Speaker 1: like some sort of like core stability thing. I'm gonna,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna, I'm gonna get I'm gonna guess that's fishing
Speaker 1: it is? And yeah, you were you were right. You
Speaker 1: got that one, My friend that right, there's the classic
Speaker 1: banjo minnow right, exactly what I thought it was. There,
Speaker 1: You go, banjo man, Try and find a good deal
Speaker 1: over Thanksgiving weekend on that one, my friend. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, it could be a hard one. Well,
Speaker 1: speaking of Thanksgiving, you know what Thanksgiving always reminds me of?
Speaker 1: What is that? Steelhead? I think at this point, having
Speaker 1: hung out with you for a while, that I could
Speaker 1: do word associations and be like desk Lamp and you'd
Speaker 1: be like steel Head, be like Honda Accord, steel Head. Everything,
Speaker 1: everything reminds you of Steelhead. I actually do have a
Speaker 1: steel that story about a Honda record. Hey man, look,
Speaker 1: I should never give you ship for talking about snakeheads.
Speaker 1: Oh I'm Ji surmey. I caught a snake head. It
Speaker 1: was ten pounds. Why doesn't everybody like snakeheads? I can't
Speaker 1: help what I'm into. Okay, okay, okay, I'm just busting
Speaker 1: your chops anyway, Steelhead, what about them? Tell us something? No,
Speaker 1: you're you're You're right? I do. I do talk about
Speaker 1: steel it all the time. Also, snakeheads are coolest shit.
Speaker 1: In fact, I went back and I watched rewatched season
Speaker 1: two episode two of b side and I really want
Speaker 1: to get a snakehead now. Um, it will make it
Speaker 1: happen this year. This year it's winter two. Sorry, I
Speaker 1: don't know what year it is anymore. Yeah, either way,
Speaker 1: sucks getting old man. Anyhow, Before you derailed me, I
Speaker 1: was going to, oh so smoothly segue into your we're
Speaker 1: guest Joe Uh Steelhead Guide Pat Keim, Oh got you?
Speaker 1: Got you? Fair enough? My bad, Pat Steelhead Pat Yes
Speaker 1: in this week's edition of Smooth Moves. Why joining us
Speaker 1: today for Smooth Moves on old buddy of mine from Milwaukee,
Speaker 1: one of my favorite cities. By the way, Pat Keam
Speaker 1: of Pat keem Guide Services here, Pat how Art, thou
Speaker 1: my friend, I'm pretty good man. How are you guys? Good?
Speaker 1: We are good? And um, I'm actually glad you and
Speaker 1: Hayden our meeting because you're kindred spirits in the Great
Speaker 1: Lakes steel scene. And I gotta say this is no joke.
Speaker 1: So we fished together a few years ago, um, and
Speaker 1: I was blown away by the steelhead fishing basically in
Speaker 1: Milwaukee proper. It's like it's like urban steel. And even
Speaker 1: then it was like the fishing was kind of slow.
Speaker 1: You know, like, you know, we did great, but by
Speaker 1: your standards, it was slow. I know that. Yeah it
Speaker 1: was like four or five fish, five or six fish,
Speaker 1: but we had just the one day to do it.
Speaker 1: But like good, I mean, yeah, four or five fish
Speaker 1: these days obviously is like okay, that was a great day.
Speaker 1: But like we're still seeing like ten to like twelve
Speaker 1: fish days and then some some instances in the spring
Speaker 1: we'll see fifteen plus sometimes out of the same wall.
Speaker 1: Well what I what I thought was so cool about
Speaker 1: it being that close to downtown was you know a
Speaker 1: lot of these still had places across the Great Lakes.
Speaker 1: It's like you have these these little sort of one
Speaker 1: horse kind of towns with this bar in this restaurant
Speaker 1: and they have their own vibe going. But to be
Speaker 1: able to do that and then hang out in Milwaukee
Speaker 1: that just has so much great like food and bars
Speaker 1: and culture and other cool stuff to see and hang out,
Speaker 1: it's a very different setting. I loved it. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I I wouldn't feel quite comfortable like steel
Speaker 1: head fishing somewhere where there isn't graffiti on your bridges
Speaker 1: or shopping carts in in the in the river. And
Speaker 1: now the new thing in the river is all the
Speaker 1: weird scooters that we have around. There's electronic ones where
Speaker 1: you can just like kind of take them on the app. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's got to be some razor scooters I have. I
Speaker 1: know a few rivers oddly where it's like they're full
Speaker 1: of razor scooters. Yeah, I've seen razor scooters, but these
Speaker 1: are like ones you can like use an app on
Speaker 1: your phone, like kind of like Bubbler bikes, but it's
Speaker 1: it's an electric scooter and all over the rivers. It's funny,
Speaker 1: and they're called birds, so it's like it was a
Speaker 1: bird in the rivers. No way. Well it's so what's
Speaker 1: cool is when I met you, you were just like,
Speaker 1: you know, man around town like we You were just
Speaker 1: a local dude that fished. And since then you have
Speaker 1: kicked off officially your own guide service, which I think
Speaker 1: is very cool and unique, and because you know Milwaukee
Speaker 1: so well, like I think you should expand that beyond
Speaker 1: foot guiding, like you could just do like General General
Speaker 1: General Milwaukee Tours, so like Steelhead And then I'm going
Speaker 1: to show you the Bronze fond I'm gonna take you
Speaker 1: for the Bloody all with the half of chicken in
Speaker 1: it and then like you make more money that way.
Speaker 1: It's actually I mean, I'm kind of glad that you
Speaker 1: said that. So new idea. So you've only how many
Speaker 1: Remind me how long you've officially been a guide for hire.
Speaker 1: Hasn't been that many seasons? Right this this season two? Okay,
Speaker 1: so season two, this is very new. Um, and you
Speaker 1: you it's all on foot. You don't you don't do
Speaker 1: any boat guiding, so you are just taking people to
Speaker 1: all the fisheries. What how far outside the city do
Speaker 1: you go? You stay pretty close right, Um? Yeah, we
Speaker 1: really don't leave. Um, it's still considered the city. It's uh,
Speaker 1: it's a small the village of Glendale, which is still Milwaukee.
Speaker 1: Anywhere anywhere further north of that, I'm the Milwaukee River.
Speaker 1: There's not any sort of number of opportunities on fish whatsoever.
Speaker 1: It might be one, if you're lucky, you should brand
Speaker 1: these as Milwauking waiting tours Milwauking. That's good. Anyway, let's
Speaker 1: get down to it. Man, So you've only been gotten
Speaker 1: for two seasons. But we talked a little bit about this. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, great legs steel foot guiding in the city.
Speaker 1: I knew you would have something. So the floor is
Speaker 1: yours for smooth moves man hit us all right, Um,
Speaker 1: let's see. So I've been thinking this already a few times.
Speaker 1: I wanted to start by saying that these two specific
Speaker 1: customers of mine were incredible customers and great dudes to
Speaker 1: fish with and great juds to hang out with. Good start.
Speaker 1: I'm not so much roasted him, but I just because
Speaker 1: I know that they'll probably hear it, and they'll know
Speaker 1: that it's then when they hear it. But this is
Speaker 1: during chinook this year. Um, it was mid September, getting
Speaker 1: towards the end, but we had already been seeing some
Speaker 1: some chinook ground. It was still super slow, um, but
Speaker 1: we were catching fish and it was very hard because
Speaker 1: it was so hot outside and the water was so
Speaker 1: hot that these fish would only eat right at sunner
Speaker 1: eyes and they wouldn't even need it at at sundown.
Speaker 1: It was like just when they feel the water real
Speaker 1: small window. Yeah. So when when we first got there,
Speaker 1: like I wanted to get them a big fish, and
Speaker 1: they're standing there, we're like talking whatever, and I say, hey, listen,
Speaker 1: do not take your your eye off of that bobber
Speaker 1: for any reason. Don't look away from it, because if
Speaker 1: the second, the half a second that you do, it's
Speaker 1: going under and you're gonna miss it. Um. Not thirty
Speaker 1: seconds later, I'm staring over um the one guy's shoulder,
Speaker 1: and um, the other guy cracked a joke and he
Speaker 1: looks over at him to respond to that, and over
Speaker 1: his shoulder, that float just goes down and I screamed too,
Speaker 1: I'm just like bober bober, and he like almost falls over,
Speaker 1: like going to get his other hand in the rod
Speaker 1: and he it happened so fast that he didn't even
Speaker 1: get to see the bobber come back up. I did,
Speaker 1: but he it just went down right back up and
Speaker 1: that quick of a hit. Yeah. Yeah, So right after
Speaker 1: that happened the same dude. Um, he looked down at
Speaker 1: his feet to shovel up, shovel over to the next
Speaker 1: rock like boulder. Whatever happened again happened a second time,
Speaker 1: and he missed the fish. Um. He never got to
Speaker 1: see the bobber go under or come back up again.
Speaker 1: This all happened within sixty seconds, and it maybe it
Speaker 1: just didn't quite take me as seriously as he thought.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm like, dude, this is gonna because it
Speaker 1: happens to us all the time, Like we'll look away
Speaker 1: for a split second, bobbers under set the hook because
Speaker 1: you know, we were there quick enough. Or sometimes it'll
Speaker 1: it'll take the bober under while you're not looking, and
Speaker 1: it'll take it so hard it will load the rod. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that didn't happen, unfortunately, but I wish it did, but
Speaker 1: that um it did not, unfortunately. So and then we
Speaker 1: fished the rest of that day, which is day one,
Speaker 1: for another six hours. They never even got so much
Speaker 1: as another nibble. So I'm like, don't look away from
Speaker 1: the bobber ever, but they too. We hopped in the
Speaker 1: river as like, please be on time. It's the same deal.
Speaker 1: We're only going to have this window in the morning
Speaker 1: to get you know, one or two bober downs right away,
Speaker 1: maybe four or five before lucky we get in the river.
Speaker 1: They didn't look away from their bobbers this time. They
Speaker 1: got hooked up to catch a fish. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: Sun comes up and that whole we were in just
Speaker 1: got it, just got blanketed in sunlight. It was like
Speaker 1: out of all the holes in the stretcher of fishing,
Speaker 1: that was the first one to get it, and I
Speaker 1: was like, come on, So the in the spot that
Speaker 1: we're fishing at is um as far as waiting goes
Speaker 1: to get upstream or really like to get downstream anywhere
Speaker 1: for that matter, it's uh, you got you have to
Speaker 1: get up on the bank. And the bank is covered
Speaker 1: and broken concrete from old like you know, old ship
Speaker 1: because it's an old shipping channel. So all those old
Speaker 1: concrete shipping docks are there, but they're busted up and
Speaker 1: turned into you know, bank rip wrap and laying around
Speaker 1: couple of scooters and like I mentioned, those uh, those
Speaker 1: old concrete you know docks um up in this spot.
Speaker 1: There are still flat pieces of it that are embedded
Speaker 1: in the bank that you can stand on, you know,
Speaker 1: it's nice to level. Some of them are on an angle.
Speaker 1: So this one specific one that he's standing on is
Speaker 1: it's on a just a slight pitch and the bottom
Speaker 1: corner of it is submerged in the water. So he's
Speaker 1: standing there fishing and I look over and I see
Speaker 1: that his feet, both of his feet, he's pretty much
Speaker 1: standing like you know, feet together, and he's hanging ten
Speaker 1: right off the end of this And so I turned
Speaker 1: and I see that, and I look at him and like, hey, buddy, uh,
Speaker 1: make sure that you know where your feet are right now?
Speaker 1: And he's like looking at me and he's kind of
Speaker 1: telling a story. I was like, make sure you know
Speaker 1: where your feet are. Not not more than maybe two
Speaker 1: minutes later, I was like looking upstream at the other guys,
Speaker 1: see what he was doing. I just hear this crash
Speaker 1: and a splash. He's in. He's in. Yeah, he went
Speaker 1: down and um he didn't go like all the way
Speaker 1: in and and unfortunately it happened so fast I didn't
Speaker 1: actually get to turn my head quick enough to see it,
Speaker 1: like how like how much he fell in? But he
Speaker 1: was just like almost looking at me immediately, like for like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, how pissed Izzy? Or so you aren't
Speaker 1: watching your clients the way you wanted them to watch
Speaker 1: their floats, is what you're saying. He was watching sports clients.
Speaker 1: I was trying to watch. And that's funny you say that,
Speaker 1: because like by fish personally, I don't fish too bobbers too,
Speaker 1: because that's the exact reason why. Because one's gonna go under,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be looking at the other one. So this
Speaker 1: guy went under because I was looking at the other one.
Speaker 1: I told him, you know so, but he's like clown
Speaker 1: his way back up real quick, and and I was like,
Speaker 1: are you okay. He's like, yeah, I'm fine, I'm fine.
Speaker 1: I'm fine, I'm okay. And I was like, I just
Speaker 1: told everybody whoever falls in is always fine, because he, honestly,
Speaker 1: God had that expression on his face, so like I
Speaker 1: meant to do that. I totally meant to do that,
Speaker 1: but no, I just kind of shook my head and
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I just don't want anybody
Speaker 1: get hurt. Safety is my first priority because I think
Speaker 1: of safety, think of bat Key. That team is number
Speaker 1: one safety guy. This is a story about a bunch
Speaker 1: of people missing, a bunch of things happening. Man. But
Speaker 1: you know what's funny myself, they're not looking, You're not looking,
Speaker 1: but nobody's looking. But you know what, though, man like
Speaker 1: you caught him fish that day, and I any any
Speaker 1: guy I've ever talked to, it's like some really bad
Speaker 1: ship can happen to your clients as long as they
Speaker 1: got their picture and they hooked up. That same guy
Speaker 1: would sue you had he not caught fish that day.
Speaker 1: He totally would have, and I had to mention that
Speaker 1: this is why I haven't. Pat's my dude, Man. I
Speaker 1: love Pat. He's like he's like the quintessential Great Lakes
Speaker 1: steel guide, you know what I mean? Yeah, that dude,
Speaker 1: And I don't mean this in like a bad way.
Speaker 1: He has that certain type of crazy all Great Lakes
Speaker 1: steelhead guys. Yes, it's a vibe that we're not going
Speaker 1: to do anything illegal or shady, but we're gonna do
Speaker 1: a couple of things that might feel that way. Yeah, dude,
Speaker 1: that's very well said. It's it's totally a thing in
Speaker 1: those fisheries, you always feel like you're about to be
Speaker 1: on the wrong end of an ass kicking, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. Like, there's actually I almost like hate
Speaker 1: to bring it up, but there's a pretty famous video
Speaker 1: from the Salmon River a couple of seasons ago where
Speaker 1: a certain person was convinced someone else was somehow fishing
Speaker 1: on his or her property. I won't even say that
Speaker 1: the gender. Yeah, I know exactly what video you're talking about,
Speaker 1: and we should definitely stop right there because it's just brutal.
Speaker 1: It's just brutal. Um. But anyway, speaking of being on
Speaker 1: the wrong side of and ass kicking. Um, I think
Speaker 1: that's exactly where you might find yourself from this installment
Speaker 1: of fish News. But first right challenge. Ahead of the challenge,
Speaker 1: tell me, Hayden, is this clip from a fishing gear
Speaker 1: or exercise equipment infomercial? But we don't have that kind
Speaker 1: of time, so we need a device that gives us
Speaker 1: maximum payoff with minimum input. Well, they're appealing to being lazy,
Speaker 1: which uh speaks to a certain subset of Angler. But
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. It definitely speaks to folks buying
Speaker 1: workout equipment off the off the television. So I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say that's work out two for two. Man. That's the
Speaker 1: health Rider, which I've never heard of. The health Rider. Dude,
Speaker 1: you need to look it up. Do you have a
Speaker 1: health rider tattoo? Like? Yeah? Um, yeah, dude. So in
Speaker 1: doing this, I found this randomly and it's like a
Speaker 1: country western It's like a very western dude in a
Speaker 1: very western Montana setting selling this thing. And I don't
Speaker 1: know who the target market was, but obviously didn't work
Speaker 1: out because um, we've never heard of it. So there
Speaker 1: you go. But two for two good for you? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Well you know, uh, We've actually messed this up a little. Uh.
Speaker 1: We didn't give Phil his in for fish news. Yes,
Speaker 1: we kind of threw off the rhythm there. Sorry, you
Speaker 1: are indeed right, Phil, it's time for fish news. Fish news.
Speaker 1: That escalated quickly. Hey, I bet I know what you're
Speaker 1: not doing on Black Friday, sitting down to watch the
Speaker 1: final episode of b Side Fishing season two. But that's okay, Okay,
Speaker 1: you'll you'll get to it later. I'm not mad at you,
Speaker 1: but that does, of course drop today at one pm
Speaker 1: Eastern eleven Mountain on The Meat Eater's YouTube channel. Um,
Speaker 1: and we're closing and out back in Virginia, this time
Speaker 1: on the James River. Kind of chasing a mixed bag,
Speaker 1: but the main focus is those famed James River Blue Cats,
Speaker 1: which I love a lot. I love the James I love. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I'm joined by a friend of the show and
Speaker 1: good personal friend of me me personally, Oliver and I
Speaker 1: uh and you know, if you know anything about Oliver,
Speaker 1: big bash dreams, Um, you know, big baits for big
Speaker 1: fish kind of dude, that's what he does so well.
Speaker 1: Uh and I'll let you know he flexes that a
Speaker 1: little bit in here in a surprising way, even though
Speaker 1: this is a primarily a catfish deal. But for the
Speaker 1: most part, Oliver put down his swim bait rods and
Speaker 1: um soaked some bloody chunks and we had a smashing
Speaker 1: good time, minus some very relatable angling hiccups, which you
Speaker 1: will see, so very relatable angling hiccups. Man. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: if there's one thing that speaks to me, it's it's
Speaker 1: giant cats. Man. I just love the hell out of that.
Speaker 1: And you know, some people don't really get it. And
Speaker 1: I think that this particular episode of B Side shows
Speaker 1: kind of all the highs and lows of giant catfish
Speaker 1: of many things, especially because people think giant catfishing is uh,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like a Simpleton way of fishing, Like
Speaker 1: you just huck some bait out there and and there's
Speaker 1: a lot more to it than that. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: did I know. I know you've told me you have
Speaker 1: a thing for big cats, and that's something you haven't
Speaker 1: really done. I know you chase a lot of channels,
Speaker 1: but um, at some point down the road, man, but
Speaker 1: I gotta take you somewhere with like monsters. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I have done plenty of cat fishing, and
Speaker 1: I guess what I would consider a big cat fish.
Speaker 1: I mean, right, it's all like species specific. But I've
Speaker 1: tagged with my share of like twenty plus pound channel cats.
Speaker 1: And you know, if you now, if you're like using
Speaker 1: using what I drew up using plus, that's twenty plus,
Speaker 1: that's a giant ass channel Cat's huge channel cat. And
Speaker 1: I have I have caught channel cats that I thought
Speaker 1: were legitimately in like record contention at least like the
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania state record. In fact, one time I was gonna
Speaker 1: keep and I was going to submit it for a record,
Speaker 1: and I asked my buddy. I was like, hey, man,
Speaker 1: look up real quick, what's the catfish record in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1: And he goes, uh, I said, what's a channel cat
Speaker 1: record in Pennsylvania. He goes, oh, it's like fifty pounds
Speaker 1: or something like that. He literally looked it up on
Speaker 1: the show. It's the wrong catfish. Yeah, yeah, he looked
Speaker 1: up flatheads. Ye. I have a picture of that of fish.
Speaker 1: I'll send it to you the but yeah, man, um,
Speaker 1: I was super excited to see, uh the cat fishing
Speaker 1: And man, I think you guys just I don't know
Speaker 1: to me, that's what it's kind of all about the
Speaker 1: way you guys portrayed. Yeah, I mean, truth be told.
Speaker 1: Man like I can get just as excited about chunking
Speaker 1: monster cats as I can like chasing stripers or pike
Speaker 1: catfish don't get enough love in my opinion. Um you know,
Speaker 1: I know, so they got they got a little more
Speaker 1: love out of me and v side. Anyway, let's get
Speaker 1: to it. Grab a turkey sandwich, leftover turkey sandwich settled
Speaker 1: in and remember this is a competition. Hayden and I
Speaker 1: do not know which story the other guys bringing to
Speaker 1: the table. And at the end, our stovetop loving audio
Speaker 1: engineer Phil will judge us and Declara winner. You're laughing.
Speaker 1: Do you eat stovetop, Hayden? Or is that like you
Speaker 1: can't be sure? The sage Top Mountain Sage Phills just
Speaker 1: got to do something with all that left over white bread. Okay,
Speaker 1: there you go like that anyway, it is actually my
Speaker 1: lead this week. So here we go. Let's do some news.
Speaker 1: Shout out to Bent listener Joe it is I'm gonna
Speaker 1: butcher it. It's either Steinder Stein Winder. Is it Winder
Speaker 1: or Winder? Joe Stein winder for this one and winder
Speaker 1: sidewinder Stein Winder. Um good guy. I like him. Maybe
Speaker 1: maybe I'd have found this on my own, maybe not.
Speaker 1: But he presented it on a silver platter via the
Speaker 1: Bent email inbox, and I thank him for that because
Speaker 1: it's a dandy. Okay, Now this actually comes from Yahoo
Speaker 1: Finance headline A sport fishing boat pollutes as much as
Speaker 1: one under sixty two school buses will boat businesses survive regulation?
Speaker 1: So this is happening in California. Compelling compelling journalism. So
Speaker 1: this is happening in California, and the sport fishing boats
Speaker 1: being referred to, um, you know here are predominantly large
Speaker 1: party boat style boats and long range style fishing boats
Speaker 1: that can accommodate a bunch of anglers. Of course, this
Speaker 1: style of boat is not unique California. They exist pretty
Speaker 1: much everywhere that you find saltwater, and um, what's happening
Speaker 1: is not only affecting these fishing boats, but also the
Speaker 1: whale watching fleets of the same size, typically same kind
Speaker 1: of boats. In some places, they're fishing one day, whale
Speaker 1: watching the next. Very common. Right. So, according to the story,
Speaker 1: California air Pollution regulators have already clamped down on emissions
Speaker 1: from big rig trucks, buses, and cargo ships. They have
Speaker 1: now set their sites on the sport fishing and whale
Speaker 1: watching industry because they say they're aging boats with ag
Speaker 1: diesel powered engines are responsible for what officials say is
Speaker 1: an outsize amount of dangerous pollution that lingers over the States,
Speaker 1: marinas and bays. The California Air Resources Board is meeting
Speaker 1: to consider a measure that will require sport fishing, whale
Speaker 1: watching and other excursion boat owners to install the newest
Speaker 1: and cleanest diesel engines and potentially also a filter to
Speaker 1: resust exhaust pipe emissions. Now, before I go on here,
Speaker 1: I can attest that that wherever you find party boats
Speaker 1: and whale watching boats, the fleet is often made up
Speaker 1: of very old vessels. Right. These are fifty two on
Speaker 1: foot boats. Most were custom built at some point or
Speaker 1: or bought used by the current operators. And yeah, a
Speaker 1: lot of the party boats you you fish on were
Speaker 1: built in the seventies or eighties, maybe even earlier in
Speaker 1: some places. These were boats that were meant to last
Speaker 1: a long time. You don't kind of like get a
Speaker 1: new one every couple of seasons, right, um, and it's
Speaker 1: fair to say that that when a lot of these
Speaker 1: boats were built or per just it was a much
Speaker 1: more booming time for the party boat industry than it
Speaker 1: is now in many parts of the country. And many
Speaker 1: of these party boat businesses were started decades ago, and
Speaker 1: the operation stays within one family, which leads to the
Speaker 1: obvious issue here. This is right from the story. The
Speaker 1: boat owners are mostly mom and pop businesses that cater
Speaker 1: to blue collar anglers and families. They say that they
Speaker 1: don't have the finances, unlike other big businesses, to meet
Speaker 1: the proposed regulations, and that many may be forced to
Speaker 1: close up shop. Right. It's super interesting, man, Like this
Speaker 1: is one industry where it's half a lot of it
Speaker 1: like is lifestyle and passion. Right. You know, a lot
Speaker 1: of these folks grew up this way doing this thing.
Speaker 1: You know, their their daddies were commercial fishermen or charter captains,
Speaker 1: and like, this is what they've committed to doing. The
Speaker 1: overhead is so crazy high. Oh yeah, I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: into that because that's that's the big that's a big
Speaker 1: part of Sorry no no, no, no, no no no,
Speaker 1: but no, that's that's what no, no, no. So so
Speaker 1: here's a quote. Right, I'm terrified I'm supposed to learn
Speaker 1: a new trade now, said Jeff Jessup, forty six, part
Speaker 1: owner of three fishing boats uh and a landing in
Speaker 1: San Pedro, who has been in the business like you
Speaker 1: were just saying, since he was a teenager working as
Speaker 1: a deckhand. He says, I thought this was my future
Speaker 1: and my retirement. So I'm not gonna get super detailed
Speaker 1: on the fight happening here, but basically you have quote
Speaker 1: business experts arguing that environmental regulations have had very little
Speaker 1: to do with cutting the overall number of jobs in
Speaker 1: the economy. Instead, they say that regulations often shift jobs
Speaker 1: from one industry to another, like, as an example, away
Speaker 1: from petroleum industries towards clean energy businesses. Right, And that's
Speaker 1: all well and good, but you can't apply that to
Speaker 1: every single industry that regulations like this will affect, Right, so,
Speaker 1: it says, is purther story. In the case of mom
Speaker 1: and pop businesses such as boat operators, environmental regulations often
Speaker 1: force the industry to consolidate to a smaller number of
Speaker 1: better funded companies willing to pay for the environmental upgrades.
Speaker 1: The thing is right. This is such a small niche
Speaker 1: business already that in many instances it's very hard to
Speaker 1: envision that consolidation. Right. Um. Yeah, The story says that
Speaker 1: many of the wood and fiberglass boat in California's fleet
Speaker 1: they couldn't even accommodate the new cleaner diesel engines if
Speaker 1: they wanted to, nor the diesel filters like those boats
Speaker 1: are just they're not going to fit those engines. So
Speaker 1: how do you fix that? Right? You're only option in
Speaker 1: many cases is to upgrade to a newer metal boat
Speaker 1: that's gonna cost two to five million dollars. Right, And
Speaker 1: the representatives from the Air Resource boorder telling captains, well,
Speaker 1: if you just jack your prices by forty bucks, you'll
Speaker 1: cover it. Jack your prices forty dollars, and our math
Speaker 1: says you'll be fine. Um, you'll be able to get
Speaker 1: a new boat with cleaner engines. So the Air Resources
Speaker 1: Board Yeah, yeah, I mean, but but that's the disconnect,
Speaker 1: and I'll get into that in a second. Yeah. The
Speaker 1: Air Resources Board also estimates that in San Pedro area alone,
Speaker 1: sport fishing and whale watching boats generate one of all emissions,
Speaker 1: and say the proposed regulation is estimated to avoid and
Speaker 1: how they get these numbers so specific? I don't know,
Speaker 1: But five and thirty one premature deaths, one hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty one hospital admissions, and two hundred and thirty six
Speaker 1: hospital visits over the next decade or so. How do
Speaker 1: you figure that out? I don't know, man, I feel
Speaker 1: like there are like five one premature death it's a
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty one hospital admissions and every five minutes.
Speaker 1: I think just as a result of people going fishing.
Speaker 1: That's you probably right. Now, here's the final twist to this, right,
Speaker 1: quoting the story again. The state agency is considering considering
Speaker 1: similar emissions regulations for commercial fishing operations which operate more
Speaker 1: than one thousand boats in the state. If it passes,
Speaker 1: though that program won't take effect until twenty thirty five.
Speaker 1: The Air Resources Board plans to give commercial fishing boat
Speaker 1: owners extra time to comply because agency officials say the
Speaker 1: businesses don't have the same ability to pass on the
Speaker 1: cost of new engines and boats to their customers. That
Speaker 1: seems like the opposite of what you would think, now,
Speaker 1: I will it does, I will say, though, I'm assuming
Speaker 1: that they're talking about mom and pop commercial operations like
Speaker 1: the big corporation, you know, yeah, exactly, but still but
Speaker 1: still so, if these regulations pass, it will require all
Speaker 1: the boats in the fishing fleet to be up to
Speaker 1: code in three but boat owners who have financial difficulties
Speaker 1: meeting the deadline may request postponing compliance until as late
Speaker 1: as four And guess what, I'm betting the vast majority
Speaker 1: of will ask for the tension right, Hey, hey man,
Speaker 1: now here's the thing, dude. Two years is a pretty
Speaker 1: unreasonable amount of time to buy a new two to
Speaker 1: five million dollar boat. Now ten years, ten years, I
Speaker 1: think that everybody can afford a new two to five
Speaker 1: million dollar boate. I think that's plenty of time to save.
Speaker 1: That Does that include from now? Can I get a
Speaker 1: five million dollars seventy two ft Viking? I mean, I
Speaker 1: think it's economically. It's another shout out for you, by
Speaker 1: the way, Viking, if you're listening, I just keep I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna keep dropping you until you give me the
Speaker 1: damn boat. Oh my god. Anyway, So, look, so this
Speaker 1: is a really shitty situation, and and I'm not saying
Speaker 1: there aren't two sides. I'm all for cleaner air and
Speaker 1: better tomorrow, as are you right? There's no argument there,
Speaker 1: But I also feel like you don't have any yet, right.
Speaker 1: But I also feel like I have a better understanding
Speaker 1: of how the party boat business works than a lot
Speaker 1: of these quote experts and researchers, and I'm certain the
Speaker 1: boat owners feel the same way. Like you have to
Speaker 1: consider how my prices have already been hiked just to
Speaker 1: accommodate rising fuel costs just that alone, Like when I
Speaker 1: was a kid, it costs like forty bucks a person
Speaker 1: to go fluke fishing on a party boat. Now I
Speaker 1: think it's closer to a hundred. And then now you
Speaker 1: factor in, you know, regulation changes within certain fisheries. To
Speaker 1: use fluke as an example, again, they have to be
Speaker 1: so big to keep anymore, like a keeper fluke. Now,
Speaker 1: if I caught it when I was eight years old,
Speaker 1: the whole dock would have been like, holy sh it,
Speaker 1: did you see that fluke that kid Joey caught over
Speaker 1: on sea dock? Like it's a massive fluke, right, And
Speaker 1: it's very difficult to catch keepers and your limit of them,
Speaker 1: So for a lot of people, it doesn't pay to
Speaker 1: go on a party boat to catch them anymore, you know,
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like I was just out last week
Speaker 1: and our TALG season just open here there were ten
Speaker 1: party boats out with very few people on any of them,
Speaker 1: and years ago they had have been packed. But for
Speaker 1: many people, I think that a party boat is no
Speaker 1: longer like the ch option. I mean, for a lot
Speaker 1: of people, a hundred hundred fifty bucks, like that's that's
Speaker 1: not cheap anymore. Um. And frankly, I question how many
Speaker 1: even stay in business already. I question how they make
Speaker 1: even enough to keep the boats running, let alone turn
Speaker 1: a significant profit. So for these boats in California, So
Speaker 1: it's a pretty crushing blow man, you know. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I couldn't imagine kind of just having that like that
Speaker 1: burden just sort of like thrust upon you. Um, even
Speaker 1: even if it's for these like objectively good reasons. The
Speaker 1: problem that I like, I often that's the problem, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Like it's not a bad reason. The core reason yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: the core reason is good. That the thing is is like,
Speaker 1: as folks, we see problems, and because the problem exists,
Speaker 1: we also assume a perfect solution exists. And I feel
Speaker 1: like that's where a lot of folks get hung up
Speaker 1: is like in looking for these perfect solutions that don't exist. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't really know what to do with the information
Speaker 1: that you just gave me about this, like, because it
Speaker 1: seems the number one thing that we have to do
Speaker 1: as folks is work to better our environment because you know,
Speaker 1: you get one on the flip side of that, it's like,
Speaker 1: can you justify all this like collateral damage? Um, you know,
Speaker 1: to make up for how we like Stubb since the
Speaker 1: Industrial Revolution? You know, and I mean you're you're going deep,
Speaker 1: but even on just a lesser level, it just pains me.
Speaker 1: Even though I don't know the full story on the
Speaker 1: commercial ops, it just seems like another way to kick
Speaker 1: Mom and Pop in the ass, Like why them first?
Speaker 1: I mean, like these businesses are struggling so hard already,
Speaker 1: and like you said, it's an entertainment industry. They're not
Speaker 1: a party. But it's not a necessity. You know. Let
Speaker 1: me ask you this though, like how how in this
Speaker 1: particular scenario, how don't you kick like a Mom and
Speaker 1: Pop in the ass. It's very difficult, you know. It's
Speaker 1: it's it's like with like long you know, own an
Speaker 1: operator truck drivers. You know, it's like, how don't you
Speaker 1: kick them in the ass. Is it like a grant situation? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we're not going to figure that out right now.
Speaker 1: But it also it's just another way listeners, this podcast
Speaker 1: is going to go on until Joe and are stopping.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go make another charming sandwich. We'll be here
Speaker 1: for a while. Yeah, right on. So, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: sad story. It's it's just another blow to fishing. You know,
Speaker 1: we already deal with so much of that with regulations
Speaker 1: that get thrust upon us that aren't thrust upon commercial guys,
Speaker 1: and back and forth. I hope this figures its way out,
Speaker 1: and uh, at least they buy ten years to figure
Speaker 1: it out, not have to have it done by twenty three.
Speaker 1: So hey, Joe man, let's let's let's let's move on here.
Speaker 1: Let's move into a way that recreational fishing and commercial
Speaker 1: fishing might be helping save the environment. That transition. I like,
Speaker 1: it's good alright. So um, I know I've been on
Speaker 1: the international beat for the last couple to three weeks here,
Speaker 1: but now I'm bringing it back to I guess Montana terms,
Speaker 1: you know, right down the right down the road from
Speaker 1: where I am. Unlike a lot of stories I've been
Speaker 1: bringing to the table. This is sort of like a
Speaker 1: the story that requires a little bit of context and unpacking,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to break this ship down into like
Speaker 1: a where what when kind of organizations say yeah, do it.
Speaker 1: I also wanted to say that down the road in
Speaker 1: Montana could be like three hours away, right, it's differ
Speaker 1: is It's about that? So, speaking of let's start with where. Um. Okay,
Speaker 1: So this story comes from Lena Beck writing for The
Speaker 1: Counter and I apologize if I mispronounced your first name. There. Um. So,
Speaker 1: there's this big gass lake out here called Flathead Lake,
Speaker 1: and it's like two hundred square miles or something. I
Speaker 1: think it's the biggest lake in the state. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: to contextualize, bigger than the Lake Tahoe. Um. Now, Flathead
Speaker 1: Lake straddles an important boundary, the boundary between the state
Speaker 1: of Montana and the Flathead Reservation, home of the Confederate
Speaker 1: Sailish and Kotney tribes. This is important and we're gonna
Speaker 1: get to why later on. Anyhow, Flathead Lake basically forever
Speaker 1: has been a stronghold for what I think of is
Speaker 1: one of the defining species of the American West and
Speaker 1: that's the bull trout So that's our what if you're
Speaker 1: not journalism class, throw it back. If if you're not familiar,
Speaker 1: bull troutter basically like a giant I mean, I know
Speaker 1: you are familiar. Job is for listeners, bultrotter basically a
Speaker 1: giant badass char And incidentally they actually look a little
Speaker 1: bit like lakers Um. They're super cool and they're also
Speaker 1: super protected. In fact, there are only a handful of
Speaker 1: fishery is outside of Canada where you can legally target them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I mean all the places I've been, I've yet
Speaker 1: to go on a on a bully trip like a
Speaker 1: legit you're allowed to fish for them. Here, Bully trip
Speaker 1: still on my bucket list. Yeah. So we got our where,
Speaker 1: we got our what Now let's talk about when? And
Speaker 1: there are actually like three winds in this story. You
Speaker 1: got nineteen o five, one and a couple of dates
Speaker 1: more or less more or less in the last two decades,
Speaker 1: which I'm gonna lump together here mostly for sentence structure.
Speaker 1: Let's start from the beginning. In nineteen o five, Montana
Speaker 1: officials made the dumbass decision to put non native fish
Speaker 1: into Flathead Lake among them the lake trout. The lake
Speaker 1: trout took to their new environment the best out of
Speaker 1: all these non native species that were introduced, And for
Speaker 1: a long time it wasn't a big deal. And in fact,
Speaker 1: it was like pretty rare that you caught one. But
Speaker 1: they were just kind of this omnipresent. Uh. Folks reference
Speaker 1: them or reference them, refer to them as macinal. So
Speaker 1: I'm going to use that word in here a couple
Speaker 1: of times, and it is half the battle, okay. So,
Speaker 1: and then in so it's it's been fine for like
Speaker 1: seventy five years. Then in mices shrimp were introduced into
Speaker 1: the lake. Um. The idea was that they'd be a
Speaker 1: great food resource for the cocon ey salmon, another non
Speaker 1: native fish that inhabited the Flathead Right. Well, this backfired spectacularly. Uh.
Speaker 1: Cocon Ey salmon almost exclusively eat zoo plankton and weren't
Speaker 1: super interested in the shrimp at all. Um Mices shrimp
Speaker 1: also eat zooplankton, and eventually the shrimp population grew to
Speaker 1: such numbers that they out competed the cocony By uh,
Speaker 1: there were no more cocon e in Flathead Lake, which,
Speaker 1: in the context of this story, like is kind of unimportant.
Speaker 1: The important thing is that there are were a lot
Speaker 1: of shrimp kicking around. Uh So the cocony weren't about them,
Speaker 1: but you know who did love to eat them? Who's
Speaker 1: that the lake trout, specifically juvenile lake trout. And because
Speaker 1: the shrimp were so abundant, the lake trout population exploded.
Speaker 1: But these little shrimp can only sustain a laker for
Speaker 1: so long. Eventually the lakers had to eat other bigger things.
Speaker 1: Do you see where this is going, Joe, I see
Speaker 1: where this is going because this this happens all over
Speaker 1: the country. Lakers are a great idea until they're not
Speaker 1: and they start eating all the native fish and things
Speaker 1: like that. Yep, they started eating all the native fish
Speaker 1: and things like that, and particularly uh trout. They were
Speaker 1: estimated to be about a thousand left in Flathead Lake.
Speaker 1: M hmm brittle, Yeah, pretty much extirpated. Anyhow, So back
Speaker 1: to the fact that Flathead is on both res Land
Speaker 1: and Montana state Land, it became obvious to both sides
Speaker 1: that this ship was a major problem. So around two
Speaker 1: thousand they came together and decided that they needed to
Speaker 1: tackle this situation. From what I could tell, the Confederated
Speaker 1: SAILORSH and Kutiney tribes. From here out, I'm going to
Speaker 1: refer to them as c s KT and the state.
Speaker 1: That's an acronym. Bro Okay that that started out on
Speaker 1: the same foot. Opting for an angular centric solution to
Speaker 1: the problem, the c s KAT started a program called
Speaker 1: mac Days mack and short from Mackinaw and at the
Speaker 1: inaugural events, like nine hundred mcinal were caught. Now the
Speaker 1: number is close to sixty thousand caught annually at these events.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker 1: Despite this call, the c s KT noticed that the
Speaker 1: population was only expanding to the point that by the
Speaker 1: mid two thousand's they realized that an angler approach wasn't
Speaker 1: going to be sufficient. The state disagreed and continued to
Speaker 1: push for an angler based approach to management um. But
Speaker 1: long story short, eventually the state came around and saw
Speaker 1: what the c s k T had seen all along,
Speaker 1: that a different approach was absolutely necessary. Well, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: and this sort of thing has happened in a lot
Speaker 1: of places with lakers. Dare I bring up snakeheads? After
Speaker 1: being berated about my snakehead obsession earlier in this podcast,
Speaker 1: But I mean, same deal. It's like, hey, no limit,
Speaker 1: catch all you want, catch all you don't do, But
Speaker 1: that often doesn't work to fix the problem. Like you
Speaker 1: can open the limits. You could say, you know, kill
Speaker 1: all you want. Um. Sometimes, you know, the hunter Angler
Speaker 1: sort of approached conservation. It isn't always the be all
Speaker 1: end all. It's not always the answer. It's just it's
Speaker 1: gonna happen that way. It could be part of it,
Speaker 1: It could always be part of it in most circumstances,
Speaker 1: but sometimes it's just too big of a problem. So
Speaker 1: what the c s k T did was developed a
Speaker 1: commercial fishing program. See kids, commercial fishing isn't always the devil,
Speaker 1: and it can in fact help of fishery. Anyhow, They
Speaker 1: basically net a ship ton of these things and sell
Speaker 1: them to restaurants, grocery stores, and private buyers. It's about
Speaker 1: five and a half times more effective than the MAC
Speaker 1: days alone. The MAC days alone represent about four thousand
Speaker 1: pounds of fish removed annually, where the commercial fishery represents
Speaker 1: closer to pounds. Right, So, I mean, are they pretty
Speaker 1: confident do they do? They think this is really going
Speaker 1: to solve um? The problem you get rid of the
Speaker 1: lakers and flathead once and for all. They confident in
Speaker 1: that sort of Um, they think that this is going
Speaker 1: to Their goal is in to get rid of them altogether,
Speaker 1: because you know, short of like poisoning a body of water,
Speaker 1: it's basically impossible. Um. They do think that this is
Speaker 1: going to reduce the population of lakers by like se, which,
Speaker 1: based upon their projections, will get the bull shop popular
Speaker 1: lation to bounce back to around, which is an infinitely
Speaker 1: more tenable situation and would constitute like a huge conservation
Speaker 1: success story. Anyhow, that's pretty much my fish news story.
Speaker 1: It's not exactly like a current event, but it highlights
Speaker 1: how complex our fisheries can be and how much impact
Speaker 1: our own meddling has in the survival of our native fish.
Speaker 1: You know, whether it's to increase sport fisheries or you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of times to see fish introduced to grass
Speaker 1: carp you know, aid some sort of perceived problem. Um.
Speaker 1: It also demonstrates like the importance of including native folks
Speaker 1: in the management of their own land. You know a
Speaker 1: lot of times, you know, we like to come in
Speaker 1: and decide what needs to be done, but ultimately we
Speaker 1: we can learn a lot by deferring uh a certain
Speaker 1: amount of our opinion to maybe the people that it
Speaker 1: impacts the most. And I think we can learn a
Speaker 1: lot from that great example of a lot of things
Speaker 1: that sort of get bad rap and have a lot
Speaker 1: of infighting working um together here and I certainly hope
Speaker 1: this is the solution, even though it's it's sort of harsh.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a quicker, more harsh way to get
Speaker 1: rid of all these fish. The bullstrot are more important.
Speaker 1: And I think in a case where you're not fighting
Speaker 1: about um and I'm not knocking it, but we've done
Speaker 1: stories here about like chubs and minnows that were native
Speaker 1: that went away and then there were there were fights
Speaker 1: to bring those back. Bullstrots are pretty special fish. I mean,
Speaker 1: by my own admission, it's something I have not gone
Speaker 1: to chase yet. UM. So I hope to see that works.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, we'll we'll defer to Phil to
Speaker 1: see what worked in our favor this week. Phil, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I have to put down the bulls. The
Speaker 1: turkey on white bread and the bull stoked up for
Speaker 1: a second and then after that, I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: it's uh. I think I think you and I deserve
Speaker 1: to go have a drink in honor of Thanksgiving weekend.
Speaker 1: Are we going to a bar? We are Hey's Holes.
Speaker 1: Despite the big divorce parents energy coming from my mom
Speaker 1: and dad in the late nineties. It may shock you
Speaker 1: to learn that I have never had stovetop stuffing. I
Speaker 1: had my fair share of the journo's pizza and Hamburger helper,
Speaker 1: but I don't think I've had a loaf of white
Speaker 1: bread in my house. Since those events are unrelated. That's
Speaker 1: just kind of how the timing worked out. I don't
Speaker 1: know what to tell you anyway. The winner this week
Speaker 1: is the Lake Trout. Congrats, I'm winning the big Fishy lottery,
Speaker 1: and I hope you had a lovely Thanksgiving. So, Hayden,
Speaker 1: before we scurry the show along, keep moving forward here,
Speaker 1: how about another clip? All right? Let's do it all right? Great?
Speaker 1: Round three? Is this a clip from a phishing infomercial
Speaker 1: or exercise infomercial? But it failed at first, but then
Speaker 1: it began to work. Once at work, I knew I
Speaker 1: was onto something. I put my job. Well, um, somebody
Speaker 1: talking about how they quit their job for this immediately
Speaker 1: makes me think it was fishing related. Uh, it's a
Speaker 1: tough one that I've tried to make him increasingly more difficult.
Speaker 1: The VHS like static. It makes you think it was
Speaker 1: low budget to begin with. So this dude quit his
Speaker 1: job to pursue this. It didn't have a lot of
Speaker 1: money making his infomercial I'm gonna go fishing again. Oh man, good,
Speaker 1: I'm proud of you. Three for three, that's the flying
Speaker 1: Man that is flying Laura in Ventnor Alex Langer talking
Speaker 1: about what he did to get the Flying Lawer off
Speaker 1: the ground. But it's not flying that high today, to
Speaker 1: be honest with you. So you know, I always thought
Speaker 1: it was a great lure. I still have some great lords.
Speaker 1: The tube that it falls backwards like you throw it
Speaker 1: against the dock and it falls backwards under the dock.
Speaker 1: I actually had, actually had Hank actually had Hank Parker
Speaker 1: himself once tell me that the Flying Lore is real good,
Speaker 1: and I believe him. Anyway, Those were fun So all right, Uh,
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of time to bring the show home here,
Speaker 1: and I think there's there's nothing that says home for
Speaker 1: the holiday is quite like getting wasted with your dumbass
Speaker 1: high school friends at the local bar you've been sneaking
Speaker 1: into since you were sitting through a pecalc. You sat
Speaker 1: through a pcalc. Right, you are grossly overestimating how good
Speaker 1: of a student I was, Man, I was. I was
Speaker 1: protelling what it came to math, I was terrible, all right,
Speaker 1: all right, that look that may be the case, but
Speaker 1: let's go have a drink and we can talk about
Speaker 1: where it all went wrong. Um, it's time for one
Speaker 1: of my favorite segments, and this week we have a
Speaker 1: great one coming to us from the Silver State. It's
Speaker 1: time for it. That's my bar best god damn bartender
Speaker 1: from kim Buck to to Portland, Maine, a port and
Speaker 1: argument for that matter. Now, I've always associated Thanksgiving weekend.
Speaker 1: Uh it's kind of a drinking weekend, right, but I
Speaker 1: will admit that. Um yeah, back in the day, I
Speaker 1: never really did the Thanksgiving Eve bar crawl because I
Speaker 1: was usually fishing Thanksgiving morning and I didn't want to
Speaker 1: get all banged up. Um what about you? You like
Speaker 1: there's that a party night or or get some sleep night? Uh,
Speaker 1: we'll see. Here's the thing, man, I hate everybody that
Speaker 1: I went to high school with, so all right, like
Speaker 1: I's not trying to run into him bar. That is
Speaker 1: that is very fair. I can sort of identify with that. Yes,
Speaker 1: for sure, that's that's a good call. Um, Okay, there
Speaker 1: you go. Anyway, it's also a big travel weekend of course. Um.
Speaker 1: And maybe you have family three hours northeast of Las Vegas.
Speaker 1: They'll probably not because I think only five or six
Speaker 1: families live there. Yeah, you know, so the odds are unlikely.
Speaker 1: But regardless, about three hours northeast of Vegas, you will
Speaker 1: find the town of posh Nevada, which is the closest
Speaker 1: town to the bar we're featuring, which is the Eagle
Speaker 1: Valley Resort. And this nomination comes to us from listener
Speaker 1: Ben Parks. And here's what he says. Eagle Valley Resort
Speaker 1: might as well have a sign out front that says
Speaker 1: degenerate anglers welcome. I've never actually looked for a definition
Speaker 1: of the word resort, but I'm pretty sure this ain't it.
Speaker 1: The bar dog will greet you, the locals will scallet you,
Speaker 1: and the mixture of cigarette smoke and the smell of
Speaker 1: stale beer will transport you back to the nineteen seventies
Speaker 1: when your dad lets you Sometimes tag along with him
Speaker 1: to the bar, located about three hours north northeast of
Speaker 1: Las Vegas and just a few miles from the Nevada
Speaker 1: Utah border, is the best fishing bar I've ever found
Speaker 1: in Nevada. While there must be at least three more
Speaker 1: fishing bars in Nevada, I haven't found them yet. With
Speaker 1: Eagle Valley Reservoir a few miles upstream and Echo Canyon
Speaker 1: Reservoir eight miles downstream, you have too to all caps
Speaker 1: fishing options around here. And in parentheses, he says, us
Speaker 1: Nevada's get excited about fishing options, not many, Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: so they might not have a ton of fishing options
Speaker 1: out there in the desert, although Pyramid Lakes in Nevada,
Speaker 1: right it is. And I gotta tell you, man, like
Speaker 1: I've never really, I've only desert fished a little bit.
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to fish around Vegas or film something there.
Speaker 1: But um, he's right, like, there's not a there's not
Speaker 1: a ton of options. I don't spend that much time
Speaker 1: in the desert. And even with the options that there are,
Speaker 1: Ben doesn't exactly sell us on those. Uh No, Now
Speaker 1: it continues after you've spent a day soaking power bait
Speaker 1: for stocker rainbows or throwing lures for the unimpressive large
Speaker 1: mouths and crappy or drowning meal worms on the very
Speaker 1: short ice season, so one could imagine you can head
Speaker 1: to the resort for a cold one part general store
Speaker 1: for the necessities. Fourth of July colored power bait with
Speaker 1: sparkles is crushing them today. It's the best part right there,
Speaker 1: part bar in part casino with video poker and slot machines, parenthesy,
Speaker 1: what else would you expect from a tiny bar and
Speaker 1: nowhere Nevada. A few crusty trout and bass bounce on
Speaker 1: the walls, along with various dilapidated mounted critters. It all
Speaker 1: really sets them beyond meter. To my sister in law
Speaker 1: is an aspiring I'm reading this for the first time.
Speaker 1: My sister in law is an aspiring rustic interior decorator. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I gotta say right, it was such a nice
Speaker 1: touch on the fourth of July covered power bait that
Speaker 1: like really sets the vibe of the area. Okay. Also,
Speaker 1: I've used that before, truth and it works. Um, I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure the glitter it's infused with is biodegradable at
Speaker 1: least I think. Um. Anyway, it's probably not no anyway
Speaker 1: moving along, the more remote the place is, the more
Speaker 1: needs it has to fulfill. R V spots, yep, rented cabin,
Speaker 1: yup fishing supplies, beer, butter, milk, eggs, replacement mantles for
Speaker 1: your ancient Coleman landard, yep, Cell service, Nope. Your kids
Speaker 1: can slam billiard balls around on the table until one
Speaker 1: of them smashes a finger. You can work your way
Speaker 1: to the bathrooms through the undulations that you know means
Speaker 1: there were at least three phases of construction in parentheses
Speaker 1: brother in law's aspiring rustic architect. Or you can drink
Speaker 1: your beer in silence as you stare at the sign
Speaker 1: behind the bar that says we don't call nine one
Speaker 1: one with a barrel end view of a three fifty
Speaker 1: seven no ship. Your phone isn't gonna work here anyway.
Speaker 1: This dude must be young, because I we got to
Speaker 1: remind him that there are such thing as landlines, and
Speaker 1: I bet you this relic of a bar might have one, right,
Speaker 1: I still have one. The only people that call our
Speaker 1: spam and my my mother, well, you don't know why
Speaker 1: we keep it landline or not. Man, you know that
Speaker 1: the lone sheriff of that county is already in there anyhow,
Speaker 1: and he has probably more inclined to help hide the
Speaker 1: bodies rather than do yes. It reminds me of the
Speaker 1: scene in The Vacation when the sheriff is the mechanic
Speaker 1: that rips Clark griswold Off on bald tires um. Anyway, well,
Speaker 1: I can't say I think that we're gonna rush out
Speaker 1: to fish there after that exciting overview of the angling opportunities.
Speaker 1: This does sound like an absolutely killer bar. I would
Speaker 1: drink there with bells on. Ben. Thank you for sending
Speaker 1: that one along. And if you've got a fishy dive
Speaker 1: you want shouted out, send your nomination and description to
Speaker 1: us at bent at the meat Eater dot com. So
Speaker 1: that's it for this week. And let's be honest, most
Speaker 1: of you are probably out doing fun things on Black Friday.
Speaker 1: You had a day off, so if you caught up
Speaker 1: after the holiday, I guess I could say probably happy
Speaker 1: Cyber Monday to most of you at this point. We
Speaker 1: hope everybody had a wonderful Thanksgiving and that you're getting
Speaker 1: on the water or in the field. This weekend with
Speaker 1: family or just the good people you choose to surround
Speaker 1: yourself with. And you should tell all those people about
Speaker 1: the Bent podcast. Maybe ask them to send a bar
Speaker 1: nomination or an awkward photo or elban item to Bent
Speaker 1: at the meat Eater dot com. You should definitely ask that,
Speaker 1: and you should also definitely keep using those Bent podcast
Speaker 1: and Degenerate Angler hashtags on Instagram. And speaking of Instagram,
Speaker 1: let's close out with a final infomercial clip just for you,
Speaker 1: the listeners. Okay, we're gonna we're gonna close out with one.
Speaker 1: Feel free to comment on my Friday Bent post on
Speaker 1: Instagram and let me know if you think this is
Speaker 1: a hokey fishing product or terrible exercise equipment being pushed.
Speaker 1: Either way, no matter which one it is, Bonus points
Speaker 1: if you can name the product. If it just doesn't
Speaker 1: work for you, we've got a six month money back guarantee.
Speaker 1: That's right. You can try this thing out for six months,
Speaker 1: and if you don't like it at any point, you
Speaker 1: can send it back to us and we'll give you
Speaker 1: a refunds Desta