WEBVTT - At Least Neuralink Is Doing Well 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:08.560 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Let me tell you 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:11.559 we have a new star. A star is born. 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:14.720 Elon comes up on Mars Juson Kennemy. 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:18.520 He is the Thomas Edison plus plus plus of our age. 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.079 Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity. 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:23.239 I feel for the guy. I would say ninety eight 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:25.360 percent really appreciate what he does. 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:28.480 But those two percent that are nasty, they are up 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:29.880 in fourth post. 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:32.360 We are meant for great things in the United States 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:36.440 of America, and Elon reminds us of that we don't 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:46.320 have a fourth branch of governments called Elon Musk. Welcome 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:50.480 to elan Ing, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. It's Tuesday, 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:54.840 April twenty second. I'm your host, David Papadopoulos, now sometimes 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:57.639 lost in the shuffle of all things Elon is one 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:02.280 of his most high tech and potentially consequential companies, Neuralink. 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:04.600 Last year, the company managed to insert a chip in 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:06.880 the brain of a paralyzed man that allows him, to, 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:11.399 among other things, move the pieces of an online chessboard 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:15.520 just by thinking, which is pretty cool. The company has 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:17.520 big Glance for twenty twenty five and is trying to 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.200 move fast in an industry that is quickly heating up. 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:23.639 So I asked Sarah Friar, longtime regular on this show, 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:25.880 to hop on and catch us all up on the 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:31.000 race to control human brain waves. But first, it's Tesla 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:34.520 earnings day. Now, I know, I know it can often 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:38.760 seem like every Tesla earnings call is a do or 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:42.240 die moment for Elon, but this one really does feel big, 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:46.520 with Doze a lightning rod of controversy, Tesla's sales and 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:51.000 stock price sinking, and global protest raging. Even longtime Tesla 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:54.240 bulls are worried, very worried that permanent damage has been 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:56.840 done to the brand. So when Elon takes the mic 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:00.280 this evening, the stakes will be very high to talk 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:03.200 about what to expect from the earnings report and the call, 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:06.800 and what Elon can and cannot achieve on it. I'm 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:10.480 sitting here with our regulars, Max Chafkin and Dana Hull. 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:14.799 Max Elo to you, sir, Hello David, Hey Danna, Hello again, 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:19.480 Hey Danna. So Dana. I will note that as I 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:24.680 was being the good Bloomberg employee, I am working hard 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.840 at night Sunday night, I saw a story with the 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:32.720 headline drop Tesla bull calls Code Red saying Musk needs 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:37.520 to leave Doge, this is our good friend, the bull 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:41.560 of bulls. Dan ives the man who is to Tesla 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:46.520 bulls what Max Chafkin is to mets fandom. Okay, and 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.200 you have him quoted in here from his report, Danna 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:54.240 saying Tesla is Musk, and Musk is Tesla, and anyone 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:57.400 thinks the brand damage Musk has inflicted is not a 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:00.680 real thing, just spend some time speaking to car buyers 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:05.400 in the US, Europe and Asia. Then, Dana, just minutes 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:08.120 before we came up to record this show, you dropped 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:13.079 this piece. Treasurers of eight US states, including California and Illinois, 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:17.399 shot a letter to the Tesla board that essentially says, Hey, 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:22.480 Tesla board, the company is driverless. There are no driverless cars, 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:26.200 but we do have a driver less company. Where's the CEO? 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:30.680 Why aren't you bringing the CEO to heal? So it 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.519 strikes me that on the cusp of this earnings call, 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:36.720 the mood is getting bleaker by the minute. 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:39.640 This is all true, and at the same time, like 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:41.720 I feel like I'm in groundhog Day because I have 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:45.960 been at this very point countless other times, like most 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:50.080 recently when Musk bought Twitter, which is now called X 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.040 And like the board and these pension funds and these 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:55.960 states like all went through the same exercise. So it's like, 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:58.560 I don't want to downplay the severity of the crisis 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.520 that Tesla is in, just want a table set by 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:03.840 saying that I have been here before. And typically what 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.280 happens is things are dire. Investors are upset. There's all 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:10.160 this like scrambling. People are like, why doesn't Tesla have 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:13.200 a COO or a president? What's the succession plan? Why 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:15.920 doesn't Elon ever focus on this company? And then he 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.719 pulls something out of a hat and he gives investors 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:21.719 enough to be excited about, whether it's AI or the 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:25.720 ROBOTAXI or his end to end neural nets or whatever 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:29.279 that like they get like excited again about the rosy future. 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:33.880 And so once again we're coming into an earnings call where, yes, 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:38.000 like sales in the first quarter were terrible, gross margins 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:40.240 are going to be terrible. Free clash flow is something 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:43.080 to look at, but like investors already know that it's 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.080 a terrible quarter. So what's going to be important is 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:49.360 Elon's tone on the call, and Max and I often 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:53.240 like text each other like, oh today we have dire Elon. 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:55.200 Or oh no, he's actually embulent Elon. 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:58.320 And I think the big question is he going to 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:00.920 say in his prepared remarks his time at Doze is 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:02.720 coming to an end? Or are any of the cell 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:06.440 side analysts actually gonna have the balls to ask him 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:08.880 when he's coming back, or or are they going to 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:11.200 avoid it completely like that is the elephant in the room, 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:14.280 Like the brand damage is all because of his work. 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:18.640 With Doje and Max, that is true that there's always 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:21.279 been some sort of rabbit in the hat that Elon 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:23.240 has been able to pull out in these earnings calls 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:26.720 and hey, look over here, don't mind the fundamentals or 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:28.960 this or that. Look at what's coming in three months, 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:31.559 six months, twelve years, thirty years. That's what you should 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:35.760 be excited about. My question is, given what we've seen 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:40.200 in the last few months and the state of affairs 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:45.200 there at Tesla, are those rabbits gonna work Unless the 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.400 rabbit is I. Elon musk Am leaving Doge in the 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:51.440 next twenty four hours and I will start paying it, 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:55.040 really paying attention to Tessel, along with SpaceX and XAI 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:57.960 and neuralink and all these other things. But no, I'm 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:01.040 really doing that. I'm really leaving doge. Okay, that would 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:03.919 be a hell of a rabbit. Do the other rabbits 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:05.400 work Right now, I. 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:09.919 Think it's getting harder to see what he could say, because, 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.760 as Dana is saying, like for years now, he has 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:18.320 been trying to spin the story forward towards driverless cars, 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:24.680 towards humanoid robots, towards giant supercomputers or whatever, and like 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.839 at a certain point there's the like, okay, like show 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:31.120 me the money, show me the driverless car. I mean, 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:34.960 Tesla's shareholders have been very patient with Elon Musk, and 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:36.599 I think, like there's no reason to think that their 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:42.040 patience is gonna instantly zap that Kathy Wood and her Ilk, 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:46.160 who have been basically counting on the Robotaxi to create 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:50.320 this enormous, you know, multi trillion dollar economy that will 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:54.120 essentially like replace the entire auto industry. Like, I don't 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:58.640 think enough has changed to cause them to doubt that thesis. 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:02.960 So I think it is more likely that we're gonna 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:04.800 hear more of the same from Elon Musk, he's going 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:08.800 to talk about the Austin Robotaxi like they are framing 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:11.600 this as an earnings call and a company update. Like 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:15.679 my prediction is that the company update is just it's 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:17.240 kind of the thing we know about. It's that there 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:21.000 there's gonna be some sort of Robotaxi trial in Austin 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:24.679 in June soon. And I think you're absolutely right, David, 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:27.400 that if Elon Musk said now, the way I think 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:28.440 you framed it is not how. 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:28.920 He would do it. 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:31.560 What he would do is he would declare victory. He 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:34.720 would say, you know, we've successfully remade the government. 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:36.480 We brought the bureaucrats down. 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:39.679 Now I feel like it's safe to go back to Tesla. 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:42.960 I don't know that he is ready to do that. 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:46.360 I haven't seen a lot of signs that he is 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:50.360 withdrawing from Trump. It does seem like Trump World is 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:53.120 maybe attempting to put a little bit of distance between 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:56.120 itself and Elon. But I'm not sure Elon is ready 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:57.720 to quit Trump. And at the end of the day, 0:07:57.880 --> 0:07:59.520 I don't know that Trump is ready to quit Elon. 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:01.200 A couple of things I want to mention. You know, 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:05.760 the macro environment is crappy. I mean, treasury yields are rising, 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:09.200 the stock market is tanking, like we're everyone is talking 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:12.800 about a recession. This tariff policy that has everyone super 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:16.040 confused is not good. And Tesla is not immune from tariffs. 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.640 I mean they import a lot of their supply chain, 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:22.400 including their LFP batteries come from China. So that's like 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:24.920 a whole other thing that is weighing on the stock 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:27.720 besides Elan and DOEZ. It's just like the macro environment 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.400 is awful. Interest rates are still really high. People typically 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.120 do not buy cars when interest rates are high and 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:35.040 when people are losing their jobs left and right. So 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.439 that's like a whole other thing is is the tariff implication. 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:42.920 But then there's also just continuing, continuing market confusion about 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:44.959 this idea that Tesla is going to come out with 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:48.200 a cheaper car like Ed Ludlow and I reported a 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:50.880 year ago that there really is no cheaper car. Like 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:54.200 the quote unquote cheaper mass market car is maybe like 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:57.559 a cheaper version of the Model Y and the Model 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:01.680 three that's like lower range decontent, but like there's no 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:05.000 new model. And you know, a couple of quarters ago, 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:07.240 Tesla said, oh, we're going to be making this cheaper 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:09.560 car in the first half of the year. Now, Reuter's 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:11.959 had a history out saying that that has been delayed, 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:14.880 but it's like, of course it's delayed, like it's not 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:18.480 really a new model. So I just think that Tesla 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:21.080 picked very clearly, like a year ago, that like the 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:25.640 future is AI autonomy, robots and not high volumes. 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:28.199 So but that's another thing that people are going to 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:28.760 be looking for. 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:32.640 They've achieved that the volumes are going down fast, and 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:37.760 they're one new rollout, the cyber truck, which you know, 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:39.920 it's funny. We have mentioned on the show that it 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.960 hasn't gotten off to a roaring start, but I guess 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.560 it was only this morning that I saw the actual numbers. 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:48.559 And you guys feel free to yell at me if 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:50.440 you've said these numbers on the show and I just 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:56.880 failed to properly pay attention. But apparently Cox Automotive estimates 0:09:56.920 --> 0:10:01.640 that cyber truck sales dropped f fifty percent first quarter 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.920 versus fourth quarter. Now, I know there's some you know, 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.760 imperfections about doing a quarter on quarter comparison like that, 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:12.880 but still, Jesus Christ, I mean, come on, you should 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:15.240 be they should be ramping up wildly right. 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:17.439 Well, they've had a lot of recalls of the cyber truck, 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:20.520 and the cyber truck is still expensive. And the fourth 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:22.760 quarter is always the big quarter because you know there's 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.199 a big sort of end of the year push. But yeah, no, 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:27.640 the cyber truck is a I mean, cyber truck is 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:28.959 not a big selling you're about to. 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.240 Say disaster that you were going to say disaster. Is 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:33.600 it a disaster, Dana Hall. 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:35.840 But the other thing that I think so funny is 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:38.480 that the cyber truck, of all the cars and Tesla's 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:41.240 line up, is like the epitome of Elon Musk himself. 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:44.480 So that's why you're seeing like dog walkers in Brooklyn 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.880 leaving their like you know, bags on the car of 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.600 the truck where it is the epitome of Elon himself 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:55.160 because he wanted this thing. His other executives wanted, like 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:58.120 you know, to go high volume. Like the cyber truck 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:00.160 is Elon, and Elon is the cyber truck. So as 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:03.679 much as the backlash is impacting the brand, it is 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:06.240 that vehicle that is that is burying the front of it. 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:10.680 It's the new Elon. It's the it's the trolling, social 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:16.840 media addicted you know, hyper partisan Trump supporter version of Elon. 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:19.360 Of course, like the Model three is also Elon. I 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:20.960 mean that, And that is the thing that like is 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:25.080 so weird about what has happened. Like Tesla was able 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.720 to break the mold essentially for an automaker in a 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:30.400 bunch of different ways, and and one of the things 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:32.640 that had going for it was Elon Musk and the 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:36.400 brand that he has like cultivated around himself. And what 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:40.600 we've seen is like taking that asset, that thing that. 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:45.680 Made Tesla special and made it so successful and throwing 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:49.400 it in the wood chipper along with USAID and you know, 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:51.439 and other parts of the federal government. 0:11:56.000 --> 0:12:01.200 Now, one thing we haven't mentioned yet is optimists going 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:03.080 to space or are we going to get a lot 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.960 of optimist talk on this call? Optimist the robot. 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:07.640 Oh yeah, come on sure. 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:10.439 I mean, hey, Musk says that Optimist is going to 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:12.719 go to Mars on starship by like the end of 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:16.040 next year, and he's very excited about Optimists. 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:17.199 I mean that is like. 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:19.360 I think on the last call you talked about optimists 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:21.640 more than the ROBOTAXI. So yeah, I'm sure we'll get 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:22.680 an optimist update. 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:23.400 You know. 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:25.280 The other thing that I think is just so weird 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:27.520 about the earnings calls and Max and I have listened 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:29.640 to like so many of them over the years, is 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:33.480 that they never introduced who the other executives are, so like, 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:35.440 I'm always right, I'm. 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:36.079 Always in ode. 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:38.280 Never they never say and now we're gonna hear from 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.480 you know, like so and so who leads like autopilot software, 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:45.440 like Elon talks and then like some other random executive. 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:49.200 Pipes, you ain't Elon Musk, You're just you're just a sidekick, 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:52.360 an anonymous, faceless sidekick. 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.040 I mean, like multiple chats and everyone's like who's speaking, 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:57.040 And I'm like, you know, this sounds like Lars. Oh no, 0:12:57.120 --> 0:13:00.040 it's not, that's Franz like whatever. You know, so we 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.080 don't bother introducing the other executives. And then even if 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:06.000 the other executives talk, Elon talks over them and interrupts them. 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.520 It's just like it's unlike any other earnings call. 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:10.880 That you've ever listened to. 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:12.960 And it's like, I'm so Max and I are so 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:15.480 used to it because we usually play bingo, But like 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:17.800 if you've never listened to a Tesla earnings call. You 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:20.600 really should. It will give you a lot of insight 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:24.160 into how these things go. And it's also just frankly 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:27.200 like so disappointing. I mean, could I say this on 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.480 a Bloomberg show. Like the Shell side analysts, they're all 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.079 about their trying to perfect their models. They don't actually 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:36.080 ask the hard questions. The best person who really would 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:39.520 try to nail Elon on particulars was Tony Sacandagia Bernstein, 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:41.280 and he retired. 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:45.040 But Van Ives has worked up as he is right now, 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:48.679 goes out and grills Elon with a tough question or two. 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:51.920 He's never He's almost never gets called on to ask 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:52.520 the questions. 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:56.439 Okay, okay, Max, we need to wrap up here on Tesla, 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.320 but let me ask you this before we do. Uh 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:04.560 Test has been saying, this isn't just a quarterly earnings report, 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:08.040 it's a company update. Are they're already starting to spin 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:10.840 us here? We got some big grand reveal. 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:14.719 I mean I think he needs given how poor we're 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:17.440 expecting the earnings to be, given how bad the sales 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.960 have been, I think he's going to be looking for 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:24.160 some way, as we've been talking about, to spin this forward. 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:27.960 And I think that company update it could be as 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:31.080 as Danna said, an update about the way that the 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.800 CEO is spending his time, although again I'm not I 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.920 kind of doubt it that it could be an update 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.920 about Rubotaxi efforts in Austin, and or it could be 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.560 about something further down the pipe. And I think you 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:48.000 asked Anna about optimists. It is certain he will bring 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:52.200 up optimists because what Elon Musk has done always has done, 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:55.360 is has found ways to sort of push the camera 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:58.840 out like the focal point way into the future to 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.880 this like really optim mystic future. And at this point, 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:06.480 like robotaxis are kind of real, and they're also kind 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:11.520 of obviously underwhelming. And so you know, Weimo has been 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:14.600 doing the thing that Elon Musk has has been promising 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:18.200 for years and at last I checked, it hasn't created 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.960 a thirty trillion dollar industry. So like, as we get 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:25.720 closer to the actual rollout of the robotaxi whatever it is, 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:27.840 and I promise you it's not going to be a 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:29.880 coast to coast, it's not going to be like, really 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:32.320 a robotax is going to be like Weimo or something 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:35.520 in one city which has been happening for years and years. 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.640 So Elon's going to have to find some other way 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:41.840 to keep that focal point in the future. And I think, 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:43.960 you know, Humanoi wrote a robots probably what it is? 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:47.720 Well, well, this is now truly the last thought I 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.400 will leave you guys with on this that our good 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.640 friend of the pod, Esha Day, and her piece previewing 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:57.200 the earnings this morning had a quote from somebody saying, 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.600 because the stock, as much as Tesla's stock is, it's 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:04.200 still trades at seventy eight times forward earnings, which for 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:07.320 those who aren't familiar with that metric, it's an incredible 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:10.040 a lot of times for forward earnings. And the quote 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:13.680 from this one investor is of all the stocks and 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:16.600 the Magnificent seven, the tech stocks in Meg seven, it 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:22.040 is Tesla whose valuation is almost entirely about the future. Basically, 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.440 Max the stock is bulled ah. 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:27.560 And that's the thing, like it could be. 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:31.080 I think one of the big sort of like misunderstandings 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:34.960 of Elon Musk's support for Donald Trump is this sense 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:37.600 that like he was coming from a place of strength, 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:39.800 and of course he was, he's the world's richest man. 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:42.400 But in other ways this is a company that. 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:47.480 Has always kind of been teetering, and it's always halfway 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:51.760 between you know, taking over the world and like wildly 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:56.520 underperforming expectations. And that's why Dana people like Dana me 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:59.320 are a little bit like, you know, like why it's 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.840 hard to get ex excited about anyone calls like, oh, 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.119 this is going to be I mean, we are excited 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:06.280 because this is our super Bowl, but you know, we 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:09.040 see this movie every three months, so so like yeah, 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:10.480 like I don't think this is going to be the 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:14.080 thing that does Elon as CEO of Tesla like you know, 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:15.520 but but on the other hand. 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:15.719 I don't know. 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:18.080 We we live in we live in crazy times. 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:20.600 I just want to say one thing, Nothing will compare 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:21.680 as crazy. 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:22.760 As now is with Trump. 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:26.240 Nothing will compare to twenty eighteen, which, lest I remind you, 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:28.919 is the year that Tesla struggled to ramp up the 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.000 model three. Yes, Elon tried to take the company private 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:34.280 through the four to twenty thing. He smoked pot with 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:38.200 Joe Rogan. He called the tie Cave Rescuer a pedo guy. 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:41.720 Executives are quitting left and right, like in real time, 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:45.320 including the chief accounting officer. Like I like that that 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:48.760 would be for me is is twenty eighteen. 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:51.600 Those are all good points to which you know, I 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:55.359 would say so Max, at the time that Dan is describing, 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.480 maybe truly the company was teetering. It was trying to 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.080 scale up and get to to where it is now. 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.800 I don't think the company is teetering so much now. 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:06.800 I think it's not. When you it's not. 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:11.199 Still have a car company, yeah right, What you have 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:16.680 is a stock right that is just incredibly valued even 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:18.359 after a fifty percent drop. 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:21.080 That's the you know, the big question. So when I said, 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:23.240 I should also reframe it. The stock is in bulk, 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.240 but boy, there's a lot of hocus pocus there. Yeah. 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.120 Yeah, the Tesla the business is has a very good 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:34.240 business and drinking. But the stock, yeah yeah, Tesla. The 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:38.840 stock though, as you're saying, as ESA's saying, like it 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:43.159 it is entirely a lot of that value is is 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:46.159 about is about the future and about assumptions that the 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:50.240 market has made and that I'm not totally sure like 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:53.280 why like what like what the what whether there's much 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.359 of a basis in reality for those those assumptions. 0:18:56.560 --> 0:19:05.639 Dana, thank you as always, Thanks thank you. Okay, so 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:09.760 now I'm joined by one of the OG's of the show, 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:14.639 Sarah Friar, big tech team leader here at Bloomberg. Sarah, 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:17.920 great to have you on. Thanks for having me, Okay, Sarah. 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:21.280 So we're going to talk now about one of Elon's 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.639 companies that, well, for us at least, it's kind of 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:28.720 fallen off the radar just because it's been drowned out 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:35.320 by Tesla and Doze and Doze and Doze and SpaceX 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:40.159 and Tesla and Dose do And that's Neuralink, which is 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:44.200 a pretty fascinating company, but that just again just doesn't 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:48.320 make news every second of every day for starters. Remind 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:53.840 our listeners what exactly Neuralink is and where it was 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:57.560 as we last understood it, so that we can get 0:19:57.560 --> 0:19:58.720 into new developments. 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:02.080 Must be nice to be at the Musk company that's 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:05.880 not under the microscope, not super involved with what's going 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.600 on in DC thinking about the future, like that's the 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:09.560 sweet spot right. 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:12.240 Just quietly beavering away doing their work. 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:18.679 So, Neuralink is one of Musk's companies that is in 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:21.960 the business of putting chips in people's brains to help 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:26.120 them do things that their bodies can't do. Right now, 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:30.439 they're focusing on quadriplegics, people who have no ability to 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:34.439 use their arms or legs, and they've only had so 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:39.760 far publicly three patients for this device, which again involves 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:45.440 surgical implantation in the brain, attaching electrodes to your brain 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:51.240 tissue to help you move a cursor on a computer 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:56.680 to help you to make your needs known via your 0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:01.840 actual brain waves. Musk has talked about eventually leading us 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:07.600 to symbiosis with artificial intelligence. That's extremely far away from 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:10.879 the current reality, which is still very exciting, which is 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:14.680 that they have this human trial that started last year 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:21.920 where they are implanting devices into people's brains for real. 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:27.240 They put their first chip in a patient named Nolan Arba. 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:30.560 We talked about that on the podcast in the past. 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:35.000 Since then, they've implanted the device in a few more people, 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:37.159 and they've improved the technique. 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:40.480 For a second, before we talk about that and the 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:44.159 improvement in the technique, tell us about Nolan Arbaugh and 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:46.440 what made him the right candidate for this chip. 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:51.760 Well, Nolan Arba was a quadriphlegic, so he fit the 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:55.280 parameters of what they needed to prove that they could 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:59.399 actually make something that read somebody's thoughts that would allow 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:04.520 him to now, for instance, play video games independently, which 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:09.040 is really remarkable. This is on the road to helping 0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:12.720