WEBVTT - Surprise! Your Cash Is Now Worthless 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.360 The stores were just deserted. Now I knew Delhi. In 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:06.400 all of my visits over the past twenty years, I've 0:00:06.440 --> 0:00:10.399 never seen so many empty stores, jewelry stores, clothing stores, 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:14.320 even sorry emporiums which do brisk business on a regular 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:28.920 business day. Today, on benchmark, it's all about cash, cold, 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:33.559 hard cash. While it seems to be disappearing from people's 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:37.559 daily lives in the developed world where plastic or PayPal 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:41.240 or Venmo, whatever you prefer, all those are ascendant, travel 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:45.000 halfway around the world to India and the opposite is true. 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:48.960 Most Indians get paid in cash. If they want to 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:51.760 save it, many do it the old fashioned way. They 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:55.959 stuff it into boxes or mattresses. Two years ago, some 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:59.680 two hundred and thirty three million Indians that's almost one 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:03.279 fifth of the population didn't have a bank account at all. 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:06.560 That same number, that's almost two thirds of the population 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:09.920 of the United States. I'm scot landman. With me in 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:13.600 our Washington studio is my colleague Show Chandra, who was 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:16.480 born and raised in India and happened to visit the 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:21.039 nation in December. Were also joined remotely by Cornell professor 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:25.520 Eshwar Prasad, who was also a Brookings Institution fellow and 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:29.720 former official at the International Monetary Fund. Eshar thanks so 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:32.040 much for joining us today. Thanks for having me on 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.240 and show. Thanks for being with us in the studio too, 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:38.880 as Scott, thanks for having me to your point, Indiana's 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:42.920 reliance on cash isn't just an inconvenience. It also creates 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:47.240 opportunities for corruption and dodging taxes. That explains why Prime 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:51.000 Minister rain Modi suddenly announced in November that he would 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:56.720 invalidate almost nine of cash and circulation, making it worthless overnight. 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:01.600 Everyone holding five hundred and thousand group bills, which are 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:04.920 what about seven and fifteen dollars each year, would be 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:08.320 required to trade them in for brand new currency. Right, 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.320 and that move sent hundreds of millions of people rushing 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:15.040 to banks and waiting in crazy long lines from what 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:18.320 I've read, to exchange their money. It was a big 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:21.760 mess and the impact is starting to show. Not too 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:25.480 long after India had surpassed China as the world's fastest 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:28.920 growing major economy, it's now in danger of losing that 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.080 title to the Middle Kingdom again. So each Hre, can 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:34.359 you just walk us through why India would take such 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:38.880 a drastic action like this. The objectives were noble ones, 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:42.360 and I think there were multiple objectives. In fact, one 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:45.320 show pointed out was to try to deal with the 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:50.080 corruption problem. A lot of economic activity in India works 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:53.720 through the shadow economy, and on major transactions safe for 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:58.400 housing purchases, a significant part of those transactions are conducted 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:02.320 in cash and order to avoid the tax net. In addition, 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:05.560 there was a big concern about a large number of 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:10.400 counterfeit notes circulating in India. M estimates suggest that a 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:13.680 very significant proportion of the notes actually in circulation might 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:18.920 have been counterfeit. So this was meant as a strike 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:23.520 against the shadow economy, against counterfeit notes, and most importantly 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:28.480 against corruption. The sense was that a lot of ill 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.839 gotten gains were being held in cash, and that this 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:35.240 move would be a strike against corruption, and in particular, 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:40.160 this would be one reform where the rich, who presumably 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:43.000 had slightly larger cash holdings and in some cases much 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:46.320 larger cash holdings, and the poor would be much more 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:50.440 severely affected. Of course, the implementation could have been done 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:52.480 a little better, but then there is a question about 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:55.760 whether in a country like India, there is really an 0:03:55.760 --> 0:04:00.240 effective way to implement such dramatic move that strikes said 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:04.040 the pocket books of the wealthy and the elites, without 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:07.400 doing it in a disruptive way. Um I too was 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:09.960 in India in December, and I got the sense that 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:15.360 while many lower and even middle middle income class people 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:19.520 did not like the implementation, they felt that finally Mr 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:23.000 Mody seemed to be taking a big hammer to corruption. 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:25.400 So they were broadly supportive with the more but certainly 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:29.560 incredibly been implemented better. So has it actually achieved the goals? 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:32.039 Even if whether or not people are in favor of it, 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:33.720 is it is it something that you can judge it 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:37.040 or is it too soon? It's hard to say. Um. 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.760 There was a sense that if a significant proportion of 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:44.240 the currency didn't come back, that would imply that these 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:47.279 had in fact been ill gotten gains that the corrupt 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:49.680 would not want to sort of bring out into the 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:52.839 open um. There was a tax amnesty put in place, 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:56.200 the idea being that if there was money being held 0:04:56.279 --> 0:05:00.760 without taxes having been paid on on the income that 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:04.920 created it, um that you could put the money back 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:07.839 in the bank at new currency notes and pay um 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:12.680 a slightly higher tax than normal, but escape punitive measures 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.719 based on all those indications. I think there is a 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:18.719 sense of the amount of money that was brought back 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:21.839 into the system was not as large as expected, but 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:24.520 certainly it has put the fear of God into those 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:28.000 who may have been using cash for corrupt transactions. Um 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:30.360 and I think it's had a positive effect at least 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:34.080 in terms of giving Mr Modi some credibility if you 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:36.840 were to use it to push forward more economic reforms 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:39.880 and if you were to put in place more measures 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:43.320 to tackle corruption. There's been some movement on that front, 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:45.440 but not as much as I had hoped for. So 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.359 we'll have to wait and see. Each way you talked 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:53.560 about implementation, is there a better way to tackle the 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.960 goal that Prime Minister Modi had in mind? There was 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:01.160 a shock value to it. Understandably it couldn't have been 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:05.039 announced ahead, But is there really something more that could 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:08.640 have been done to captackle corruption, strinth AP, parallel economy 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:12.760 and what else is being done in India right now? So? First, 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:15.920 could there have been a less disruptive way to do this? 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:19.239 That's that would have been difficult, And this is where 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:23.240 the difficulty lies, because it turns out that, as you 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:26.960 pointed out earlier, India is an economy UM that runs 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:31.400 largely on cash, and the value of the currency notes 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.240 taken out of circulation by this move of taking out 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:38.359 the five thousand rupee notes amounted to about eight six 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:42.039 percent of the value of notes and circulation, and in 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:46.480 India there there are some estimates at about two thirds 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:49.400 of all the cash and circulation is actually used for 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:53.719 day to day transactions. So that was a large hit 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:58.279 on the economy. But the significant thing in that number 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:02.400 again is that about one third of the cash that 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.440 was out in circulation was not really circulating. It was 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:08.880 held as well. So that's where the hope was that 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:11.680 there would be a hit in terms of corruption UM. 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:13.520 So I don't think there was a much better way 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:16.120 to implement this, but certainly they could have acted faster 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:20.680 once the Act was put in place, recalibrating the A T. 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:24.680 M machines, getting new notes out into circulation UM, that 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:27.520 perhaps could have been done faster. But my sense again 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:29.800 is that the Reserve Bank of India and the government, 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.600 we're doing all they could to print notes quickly and 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:36.600 get them out into circulation. What one was hoping Mr. 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:39.360 No They would follow by was additional measures to deal 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:44.440 with the corruption issue. In particular bringing uh financing of 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:47.760 political campaigns more into the open. In the budget, there 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:51.120 was a modest measure taken towards this end um, but 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:53.960 I think a lot more needs to be done to 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:58.080 deal with the root problem of corruption, including changing incentives 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:01.480 for public officials to engage in corruption, which in turn 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:05.120 would require reducing the intrusiveness of the government in the 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.440 overall economy. On those fronts, a lot more remains to 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:11.120 be done. So have they have they gotten through all 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:14.560 these implementation issues yet if things returned to normal yet 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:16.280 in the country or they still got a ways to 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:21.720 go so um. Speaking from personal experience, I was in Mumbai, 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:25.040 the largest commercial capital in India, and mid December and 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:27.800 virtually none of the ATMs, even in the commercial area 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:31.280 had any money in them. By the end of December, 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:33.679 which is about forty five days after the move had 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:36.960 been announced, many if not most of the ATMs, at 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:40.240 least around the central area did have money and there 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:44.199 weren't long lines. But the urban areas are not that representative. 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:47.280 In fact, in the rural area, as I understand that, 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:51.240 there was much more disruption because that's a more cash 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:55.840 lity economy. The interesting thing however, is that I, of course, 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:59.160 as an economist, could not resist asking every taxi driver, 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.640 every Uber driver that I encountered how they felt about 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:06.479 the move. And there was broad support for the intentions 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:09.840 behind and behind Mr Modi's move. But as I started 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:13.160 investigating further, certainly they were concerned that there was disruption 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:16.679 in the rural and urban areas caused by this move, 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:19.280 and people wish they had been less disruption. So my 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:21.960 senses that those problems I've been dealt. It was to 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:25.160 a significant extent. But really the issue now is whether 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:28.560 Mr Moudy has followed through in terms of the broader 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:33.480 corruption problem. So what about your experience did you have? 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:35.360 Did you have similar impressions to what you sure I 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:37.280 was talking about when you were there a couple of 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:42.120 months ago, similar and different as well. I visited New 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:44.920 Delhi more than a month after the announcement, so this 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:48.120 was around mid December. Delhi, of course is the capital 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:51.360 of the country. You could see that the shock was over, 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:54.720 but the pain was still rampant, and I felt too. 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:58.040 For one thing, the long lines each were touched on 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:01.079 what was happening at the banks. I personally visited the 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:04.040 bank I had some old notes lying around the line, 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:08.479 stretched out the door around the block. Customers were getting impatient, 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:12.240 the bank officials were harried, and everybody had to just 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:15.720 wait in long lines um to see how much bank 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:19.120 currency would be available. And then the bank officials would 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:21.400 decide how much they were going to give you each day. 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:23.320 If you wanted more, you had to come back the 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:26.559 next day and stand in line all over again. In contrast, 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:29.760 there was another very powerful visual which spoke to what's 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:34.040 happening um the impact on businesses and on the economy. 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:37.440 The stores were just deserted. Now in New Delhi, in 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:40.480 all of my visits over the past twenty years, I've 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:44.440 never seen so many empty stores, jewelry stores, clothing stores, 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:48.400 even sorry emporiums which to brisk business on a regular 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:52.280 business day. They just had people sitting around that The 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.960 staff was, you know, just waiting for customers to walk in. 0:10:56.320 --> 0:11:00.280 Grocery stores the same thing. So business seemed to have 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:04.760 come almost to a standstill, uh because people didn't have 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:09.600 the money to pay and the storekeepers didn't have any 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:13.120 other means of accepting payment. And then finally, apart from 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:17.000 these visuals, there was this feeling of fear of what's 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:20.160 coming next. You'd have fresh rumors every day about what 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.359 was going to happen. People were picking up the newspapers, 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:26.440 listening to the radio and television. The rules were being 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:30.760 made up as things unfolded. And UH, to give the 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:34.640 government it's some credit when they realized things were not 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.960 going the right way, they were trying to adjust things 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:41.360 to to make it easier. But of course there was 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:45.319 a lot of confusion and people felt the pay so 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:49.679 so clearly this was a disruptive event. Uh. The government 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:54.240 just gave its budget presentation a few days ago where 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:57.240 I think they made some projections for the deficit and 0:11:57.280 --> 0:11:59.520 the economy. What would have to be done or what 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.760 kind of facts would have on the economy. Is this 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:07.600 a short term disruption that will depress growth this year, 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:11.080 is sure? Or is this something that that the ripple 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:14.199 effects could be felt for some years to come. There 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:16.520 are two ways of thinking about It's got. One is 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:19.880 that this has created a lot of uncertainty in the 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:23.720 business climate, and as show pointed out, in terms of consumption, 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:27.240 which is some an important driver of growth in India, 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:29.880 and that's not good for growth. On the other hand, 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:33.640 if this is seen as one of many reforms that 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:37.480 have been instituted in upcoming and signals that Mr Modi 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:40.520 is finally getting serious about the big reforms that are 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:44.479 necessary to get growth going, that could stimulate more investment, 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:48.080 that could stimulate more foreign capital inflows and have a 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.920 positive effect on long term growth. And they should be 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:53.040 seen in the context of some things that have been 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:56.400 accomplished over the last year. UM. The implementation of the 0:12:56.440 --> 0:13:00.760 Goods and Services tax is now on track. UM, It's 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:05.480 gotten through parliament, although the implementation is still being delayed 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:09.000 for some technical reasons. There was a bankruptcy law put 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:11.000 in place last year, there have been a few other 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:14.400 reforms so in scene. In that light, it seems that 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:18.319 Mr Modi is finally using his political mandate to start 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:22.520 rolling out some bigger reforms, even while maintaining some discipline 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.720 on the fiscal side. The latest budget that you mentioned 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:29.239 does allow for a little bit of slippage on the 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:33.079 phisical targets, but I think overall it's gone down quite 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:36.840 well in terms of UH, not too many populous measures 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:40.520 and overall a reasonable amount of fiscal discipline. So if 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:44.880 the government can maintain discipline on the fiscal front with 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:50.680 inflation seeming to be under reasonable control um and if 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.679 Mr Mody starts rolling out some big ticket reforms, that 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:57.000 could be enough to solidify confidence at the economies on 0:13:57.040 --> 0:14:00.959 the right track that Mr Mody is serious about economic 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.400 reforms and that could have a positive effect on growth. 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:07.480 But if all this disruption turns out to be for 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:11.960 not in terms of Mr Mody not using the additional 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:15.160 support he has gained right now to push over big 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:19.360 economic reforms, that could be a damper on growth, both 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:22.200 in the short term as well as in the long term. 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:25.240 So what's the bottom line here? Putting aside the questions 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.000 of whether the GDP numbers in India and in China 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:31.360 are credible or not, as as you're very familiar with 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:35.600 US issues, will India continue to grow at a faster 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:39.560 pace than China or is China going to take that back? Well, 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.760 India has all the potential to grow much faster. And 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:45.200 if you think about the relative sizes of the economy, 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:48.280 is China is now an eleven and a half trillion 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:52.920 dollar economy, India has barely to trillion dollars. So India 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:58.080 could certainly grow much much faster given that it has 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:01.920 a much lower base to again with but in India 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.840 growth does remain fragile to some extent because of the 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.760 age old problems making it hard for the manufacturing sector 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:11.920 to gain traction, although it has done somewhat better in 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:16.080 recent months. The services sector again has been doing reasonably well, 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:20.080 although there are concerns about whether it has enough momentum um. 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:23.720 But I think getting beyond the short term issues unless 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:28.040 India can tackle the big long term problems that where 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.120 the list has not changed over time, having to deal 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:34.560 with infrastructure, improving the banking system, getting the labor market fixed. 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.200 Unless those big changes are made, I think India's growth, 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.600 even if it does pick up a little about China's growth, 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.200 is going to remain fragile for a while. Could there 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:49.160 be any consequences in India besides the economic impact of 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.680 this move? There are some important state elections coming up 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:56.000 in the next few weeks or a few months um 0:15:56.200 --> 0:16:00.600 and how Mr Modi's party does in those legs could 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.560 um end up determining whether he starts taking a more 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:09.440 populous turn or rides the wave of some support that 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:12.800 he has received from this reason to move and pushes 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:17.200 forward using the political capitalism he has gained to get 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:21.200 some economic reforms under way and that will have a 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:25.240 big impact on India's growth again, both in the shot 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:28.800 and long terms. All right, well, char thank you so 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:30.800 much for being with us today. This is a really 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:34.040 fascinating conversation. My pleasure, Scott, thanks for having me on 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:36.320 and good talking to you to show and show. Thank 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:40.040 you too. Thanks. Alright, well, Benchmark will be back next 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:41.800 week and until then you can find us on the 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:46.000 Bloomberg terminal and Bloomberg dot Com are newly revamped Bloomberg app, 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:49.400 as well as on iTunes, pocket casts, and Stitcher. While 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:51.360 you're there, take a minute to rate and review the 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:54.040 show so more listeners can find us and let us 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:56.080 know what you thought of the show. You can find 0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:59.920 me on Twitter at at Scott Landman is at at 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.200 E s W A R S P R A s 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:07.040 A D and show is at at show s H 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:11.440 O Chandra c h A N D R A and Eshwar. 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:16.120 Your recent book on China's Redmond B is called Gaining 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:19.359 Curtency that I said that in min B. Benchmark is 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.600 produced by Sarah Patterson. The head of Bloomberg Podcast is 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.400 Alec McCabe. Thanks for listening. See you next time