WEBVTT - Capítulo 234: Well Informed Or Trauma Porn

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<v Speaker 1>Lo Morees, I'm Viosa.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm Mala. And today we're talking about the United

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<v Speaker 2>States versus CO. As you guys know, over the years,

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<v Speaker 2>as there have been celebrity cases, whether that be dep heard,

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<v Speaker 2>Megan Thee Stallion and Tory Lanez, we have talked about

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<v Speaker 2>the case, the issue, and the chatter surrounding it, especially

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<v Speaker 2>when we're thinking about issues regarding feminism violence against women

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<v Speaker 2>that have been popping up in these cases in particular.

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<v Speaker 1>And this is obviously such a momentous case because of

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<v Speaker 1>who P Diddy is in the culture. He has permeated

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<v Speaker 1>culture for decades now, beyond music, fashion, reality TV. He

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<v Speaker 1>even had an alcohol brand, so he has really had

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<v Speaker 1>his hands in a lot of things. And we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to be talking about all of that today.

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<v Speaker 2>And we've seen a lot of coverage of us versus

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<v Speaker 2>Combs all over TikTok, especially as it relates to testimony

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<v Speaker 2>by Cassie Ventura, and we're going to talk about Cassie.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to talk about all that TikTok and internet chatter.

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<v Speaker 2>But to begin just to sort of ground us in

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<v Speaker 2>the case in what's going on. This is a federal

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<v Speaker 2>sex trafficking and racketeering case from NBC News. Combs faces

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<v Speaker 2>five criminal counts, one count of racketeering conspiracy, which carries

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<v Speaker 2>a maximum sentence of life in prison, two counts of

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<v Speaker 2>sex trafficking by force, fraud, or coercion, which carries a

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<v Speaker 2>maximum sentence of life in prison and a mandatory minimum

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<v Speaker 2>sentence of fifteen years in prison, and two counts of

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<v Speaker 2>transportation to engage in prostitution, which carries a maximum sentence

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<v Speaker 2>of ten years in prison. So important to note this

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<v Speaker 2>is a federal case. This is the federal government filing

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<v Speaker 2>these charges against one Sean P. Diddy Combs.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I mean and to get to a federal case,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean that means it was years of him being

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<v Speaker 1>investigated secretly until there was enough evidence against him. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And the Feds have a very very very very very

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<v Speaker 2>high conviction rate. I think that they really wait until

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<v Speaker 2>they have everything they could possibly need to file charges

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<v Speaker 2>against somebody like Shaan Comms. And this is a case

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<v Speaker 2>that was taking place all over the country, across state

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<v Speaker 2>lines and also internationally. So for those who maybe have

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<v Speaker 2>been wondering, like why is the case laid out the

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<v Speaker 2>way it is, those are some of the reasons.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, I think. Aside from p Ditty being a media mogul,

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<v Speaker 1>a music mogul, if you will, is the relationship, the

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<v Speaker 1>very public relationship he had with Cassie Ventura, who was

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<v Speaker 1>a favorite of ours growing up. Right. We know Cassie

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<v Speaker 1>Ventura as the musician, as the artist, as the singer,

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<v Speaker 1>and she was in a long term relationship with p

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<v Speaker 1>Diddy and was one of the first people to testify

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<v Speaker 1>against him in court, in addition to a previous settlement

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<v Speaker 1>that she had with him.

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<v Speaker 2>And So for those tuning in right, maybe you were

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<v Speaker 2>fans of Cassie, maybe you're just like finding out about

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<v Speaker 2>who she is now because Cassie hasn't made music in

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<v Speaker 2>a really, really, really long time. You know her as

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<v Speaker 2>a recording artist, as a pop star, but her hit

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<v Speaker 2>single that I think people might label her as a

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<v Speaker 2>one hit wonder, Me and You, which came out in

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<v Speaker 2>two thousand and six, a very long time ago. It's

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<v Speaker 2>almost it's over twenty years at this point.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you remember when ringback tones were a thing where

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<v Speaker 1>you would call someone and you could hear a song playing. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>my ring back tone was Me and You by Cassie.

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<v Speaker 2>She was That's almost very popular. The girlies were living

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<v Speaker 2>for Me and You and she the video was very simple.

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<v Speaker 2>It's her like in a dance studio by herself, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>doing a little light choreography. Gorgeous girl. And at some point,

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<v Speaker 2>not too long after she released Me and You, she

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<v Speaker 2>is spending a lot of time with Ditty and eventually

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<v Speaker 2>it's established that they're in some sort of a relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>And they're photographed together all the time. They're at award shows,

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<v Speaker 2>they're on red carpets, they're at clubs and premieres. She's

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<v Speaker 2>deafinitely on his arm. But no music is coming out, right,

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<v Speaker 2>and the year's pass and the year's pass, and of

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<v Speaker 2>course he's this music mogul. He has at some point

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<v Speaker 2>established himself as being this like eye for talent, this producer.

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<v Speaker 2>He has like making the band these reality TV like

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<v Speaker 2>music competition shows. He is like front running Danity Kane,

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<v Speaker 2>which was a popular girl group. So he has the

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<v Speaker 2>means to launch stars and to make music happen for

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<v Speaker 2>aspiring artists. But Cassie, who's dating him for all these years,

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<v Speaker 2>there's no music. And I think, as the public, we

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<v Speaker 2>were all at one point or another just like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess, well, I guess she just isn't making music anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, there was something more insidious going on in the relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's very important to note that Cassie was very

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<v Speaker 1>young when they first entered into their relationship, So we're

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<v Speaker 1>talking like eighteen nineteen years old and spent almost a

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<v Speaker 1>decade with him, right, And so to consider like maybe

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<v Speaker 1>the manipulation that was going on, the type of grooming

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<v Speaker 1>that was going on is also really important to contextualize

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<v Speaker 1>their type of relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't think that I've really heard that term

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<v Speaker 2>grooming with regards to Cassie and Ditty over the course

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<v Speaker 2>of this case. I think people are recognizing the trafficking

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<v Speaker 2>side of things. I think people are recognizing the abuse

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<v Speaker 2>and the assault of it, all the force and the coercion.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think the point you make is really important

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<v Speaker 2>that she was a teenager, she was nineteen, and he

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<v Speaker 2>was definitely like in his thirties when they started dating, right,

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<v Speaker 2>And one of the other witnesses in this federal case

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<v Speaker 2>testified that he at some point had heard Ditty say

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<v Speaker 2>with regards to Cassie, she's young, she's multiple like, she's perfect.

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<v Speaker 2>And Cassie herself, in her testimony over the course of

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<v Speaker 2>this trial, testified to the fact that when she first

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<v Speaker 2>started spending time with Ditty like he taught her about

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<v Speaker 2>oral sex and about matters of sex and sexuality. I

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<v Speaker 2>think that she was rather young and inexperienced, and so

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<v Speaker 2>when we hear about the interpersonal side of things, how

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<v Speaker 2>young she was. The sexual relationship that was beginning to form.

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<v Speaker 2>But then also that she's from Connecticut and she was

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<v Speaker 2>probably out here in LA by herself, and that she

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<v Speaker 2>entered into a record deal with him in bad Way Records,

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<v Speaker 2>so he had a lot of control over her professional live,

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<v Speaker 2>her music career, and then eventually her personal life.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I think that is really important to note

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<v Speaker 1>because there is that power and control and that dynamic

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<v Speaker 1>that exists within that relationship that may not exist in

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<v Speaker 1>every type of relationship, right, And so that I think

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<v Speaker 1>is really important to consider when we're thinking about Cassie

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<v Speaker 1>and her lived experience as his partner and as a person.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, and as others have pointed out, Sean Combs had

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<v Speaker 2>his family like in his home with him, Kim Porter,

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<v Speaker 2>the mother of some of his kids, those children, but

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<v Speaker 2>Cassie wasn't like living in the home. He was like

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<v Speaker 2>paying for Cassie to live in a one bedroom apartment

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<v Speaker 2>somewhere in LA And Cassie testified in court that all

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<v Speaker 2>the year she was with him, like a decade, basically

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<v Speaker 2>that she never met the family, She wasn't around the family,

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<v Speaker 2>She was sort of kept separate from the family. So

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<v Speaker 2>there was also a dynamic there of him sort of

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<v Speaker 2>like having her on hold. And she testified also that

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<v Speaker 2>there were times where like he would just show up

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<v Speaker 2>at her place and let himself in, like it wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>really her place, that she wasn't really allowed to keep

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<v Speaker 2>him out of it, and so he just had all

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<v Speaker 2>this access to her. And it sounds like, per her testimony,

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<v Speaker 2>she spent a lot of time in the studio recording

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<v Speaker 2>music that just never ever ever got released, like he

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<v Speaker 2>was giving her busy work, like keeping her busy, but

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<v Speaker 2>sort of just like at his dispose.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's intense. Yes, that is so intense. And this

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<v Speaker 1>is a case that I have lightly been following, Like

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<v Speaker 1>I've listened to other coverage. I've read other articles, but

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<v Speaker 1>I haven't actually I haven't listened to the actual testimonies.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a lot, it's a lot. And so this is

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<v Speaker 2>also something that has been interesting to witness the way

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<v Speaker 2>that the coverage has unfolded a over broadcast television. There

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<v Speaker 2>are some news stations like ABC News They've had near

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<v Speaker 2>constant coverage of the Ditty trial. There's a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>podcasts out there covering the Ditty trial from different angles.

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<v Speaker 2>And then you have like journalists who are covering the case,

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<v Speaker 2>following the case and reporting back on TikTok on the

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<v Speaker 2>personal accounts like Tore. Tore famously did one of those

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<v Speaker 2>explosive interviews with R. Kelly back in the day. He's

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<v Speaker 2>still reporting, but Tore is reporting and commenting on his

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<v Speaker 2>own personal TikTok account. Then you have TikTok in influencers

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<v Speaker 2>like Stephanie Sue and others who are like somehow in

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<v Speaker 2>the courtroom.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, they have like a press badge, like a

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<v Speaker 1>journalist's badge.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, And so they're going back and reporting what they're

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<v Speaker 2>witnessing and observing, like Stephanie Sue on her podcast Rotten

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<v Speaker 2>Mango and then also on TikTok. And then there are

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<v Speaker 2>TikTok influencers who are giving like constant updates on the

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<v Speaker 2>trial on TikTok. But it's unclear where they're getting their

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<v Speaker 2>information from. If they're in the courtroom, if they know

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<v Speaker 2>someone in the courtroom, if they're reading transcripts every day,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's a a lot of testimony, it's like a

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<v Speaker 2>lot to comb through. It makes me wonder like people

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<v Speaker 2>who are not career journalists, who are not like outright

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<v Speaker 2>getting paid to do journalism work, Like is their coverage

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<v Speaker 2>getting them? Like are they gaining a lot of engagement?

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<v Speaker 2>And like TikTok dollars?

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<v Speaker 1>I would assume it's the coverage, right. I can imagine

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<v Speaker 1>that's an incentive for some of these folks on TikTok

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<v Speaker 1>to kind of go in and do that coverage for

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<v Speaker 1>their own channels or platforms.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that leads into like our kind of big picture

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<v Speaker 2>conversation for today, is these types of court cases as

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<v Speaker 2>journalism or as entertainment I should say m hm, so

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<v Speaker 2>that if we're not getting it through like the more

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<v Speaker 2>traditional news channels, those updates by like you know, TV

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<v Speaker 2>anchors on Channel four.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, there is a type of training that goes

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<v Speaker 1>into being a court reporter and like reporting on a case,

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<v Speaker 1>especially of this nature where maybe people are not trauma

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<v Speaker 1>informed and are also reporting what they're hearing or what

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<v Speaker 1>they're seeing via other social media platforms or news outlets

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<v Speaker 1>as well, and kind of regurgitating the information that they're seeing.

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<v Speaker 1>And I when I hear other people talk about it,

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<v Speaker 1>like just in general, right, not necessarily friends or family,

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<v Speaker 1>but just the chatter right of being online, is that

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<v Speaker 1>this case in some ways is very sensationalized because of

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<v Speaker 1>who it is.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and also like.

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<v Speaker 1>The term we were talking about this yesterday, like the

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<v Speaker 1>term freakof right, and how that's kind of become a

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<v Speaker 1>part of our lexicon when it's actually describing something horrific

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<v Speaker 1>and some type of exploitation, depending on who you were

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<v Speaker 1>in that room. And so I think that that is

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<v Speaker 1>also something really important, where the freak off is kind

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<v Speaker 1>of become in some way like selecious and in some

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<v Speaker 1>ways a joke depending on who's using it and how

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<v Speaker 1>they're saying it, but it's actually a representation of something horrific,

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<v Speaker 1>depending again, like who you were in that room. Don't

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<v Speaker 1>go anywhere, locomotives. We'll be right back.

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<v Speaker 2>And we're back with more of our episode. Notably, Sean

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<v Speaker 2>Combs is not being charged with like a domestic violence charge.

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<v Speaker 2>This is not a matter of Cassie going to the

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<v Speaker 2>local police department and filing a report because he abused

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<v Speaker 2>her in like a domestic violence context. This is the

0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:07.120
<v Speaker 2>federal government filing these sex trafficking charges against him, and

0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:11.000
<v Speaker 2>she's brought in as a key witness to the crime

0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:14.760
<v Speaker 2>of sex trafficking right as a victim of the crime,

0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:17.520
<v Speaker 2>she also was a witness to the crime, and that's

0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:21.079
<v Speaker 2>the role that she's playing on the stand. So every

0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:25.640
<v Speaker 2>time she's testifying about her experiences and the freak offs,

0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:29.560
<v Speaker 2>she's specifically testifying as to every time she was trafficked.

0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:34.200
<v Speaker 2>So every freak off is an instance of trafficking, of assault,

0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.600
<v Speaker 2>of abuse, of coercion, and everything else that was being

0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:41.280
<v Speaker 2>done to her. And it also raises the question, like

0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.240
<v Speaker 2>all the play by plays, all the specifics about the

0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:49.680
<v Speaker 2>baby oil and the male escorts that were being hired,

0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:51.520
<v Speaker 2>and the wigs that she had to wear, and like

0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:55.240
<v Speaker 2>the candle, like all these specifics about the way that

0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:59.480
<v Speaker 2>these trafficking situations were set up, why does the public

0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:01.800
<v Speaker 2>need to know? Oh? Right, do we need to know?

0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:05.160
<v Speaker 2>What difference does it make if we know the specifics

0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:08.520
<v Speaker 2>of how she was trafficked in a federal case like this,

0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:13.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, why does that information need to be communicated?

0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.959
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a good point, because there are certain things

0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:21.720
<v Speaker 1>that are specifically left out for the public to not know,

0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:23.760
<v Speaker 1>and this is one of those things where it feels

0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:26.520
<v Speaker 1>like everything is kind of being shared. Yeah, you know,

0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:30.080
<v Speaker 1>and with each testimonial it seems like it's getting worse

0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:33.160
<v Speaker 1>and worse what's being shared, and it's just available for

0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.440
<v Speaker 1>all of us, Which goes back to the original thesis, right,

0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.880
<v Speaker 1>that like this is part of entertainment for some people.

0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:44.960
<v Speaker 2>Yes, there's like some very it's like true crime entertainment value. Yes,

0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:48.560
<v Speaker 2>where it's horrifying. I can't look away. A woman is

0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:52.800
<v Speaker 2>being horrifically abused, can't look away. We're gonna like comb

0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.720
<v Speaker 2>over every detail of how it happened. This comes up

0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:59.680
<v Speaker 2>every time there's a public trial with a famous woman

0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.200
<v Speaker 2>at the center who has been abused or manipulated in

0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.600
<v Speaker 2>some way. You know, I don't know what the solution

0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.560
<v Speaker 2>is because there's this other piece of like there's the

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:11.560
<v Speaker 2>freedom of the press, of course, and freedom of speech,

0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:15.680
<v Speaker 2>and so it's also not a matter of oh, influencers

0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:20.240
<v Speaker 2>should not be spreading updates. It's more like, why are

0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:23.640
<v Speaker 2>these specific updates so drive so much traffic?

0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:24.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:27.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, and I feel like the folks reporting, No,

0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:30.280
<v Speaker 2>these are the details that people are going to tune

0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:30.680
<v Speaker 2>in for.

0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:35.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's part of that sensationalizing. We're gonna hold onto

0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:37.680
<v Speaker 1>these details that we think are going to get people

0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:40.080
<v Speaker 1>like riled up or going in some way.

0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:44.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and with every new witness it also is just

0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:50.720
<v Speaker 2>so it like reveals how many people were around and

0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:54.440
<v Speaker 2>were witnessing or were even involved, because he was not

0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.840
<v Speaker 2>pulling all this stuff off by himself, right, Like this

0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:02.280
<v Speaker 2>is a very elaborate scheme of his that involves a

0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:05.000
<v Speaker 2>lot of people in a lot of different locations for

0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:09.120
<v Speaker 2>many many years. So he had assistants and staff, and

0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.880
<v Speaker 2>there were like hotel staff everywhere they went, you know,

0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:15.040
<v Speaker 2>there was security guards, there were like other people he

0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:18.120
<v Speaker 2>partied with, other people he victimized. Just the sheer number

0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:22.280
<v Speaker 2>of people who can speak to what they witnessed and

0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:25.320
<v Speaker 2>how much of it is like really wild.

0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.840
<v Speaker 1>That's partly why this case is so big for the public. Right.

0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:31.600
<v Speaker 1>But in addition, like why the federal government is trying

0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.520
<v Speaker 1>Shawn Combs because of the magnitude and the scope of

0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:35.800
<v Speaker 1>people involved.

0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:40.600
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely and like it it goes back to also like

0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:43.400
<v Speaker 2>there have been over the years other times where we've

0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:47.520
<v Speaker 2>heard about Seawan Combs acting out violently towards people, Like

0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.840
<v Speaker 2>when his son was playing football at UCLA and Shawn

0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:55.200
<v Speaker 2>Combs throw a kettlebell at the UCLA football coach because

0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:57.800
<v Speaker 2>he was angry. He had some dispute with him over

0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:00.280
<v Speaker 2>his son and how his son was being played. So

0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:05.520
<v Speaker 2>he's somebody who I think everybody sort of knew for years.

0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.200
<v Speaker 2>But he has a temper that he has violent outbursts

0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:12.080
<v Speaker 2>that like his parties get out of control. Like it

0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.520
<v Speaker 2>seemed like there were a lot of people who were

0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:18.000
<v Speaker 2>in the know and in on his secrets that weren't

0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:19.240
<v Speaker 2>so secret.

0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:20.880
<v Speaker 1>Right I mean, And I think notably one of those

0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:25.160
<v Speaker 1>people was Aubry Oda from Danny Kane, and she has

0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:29.159
<v Speaker 1>been talking about Sean colmbs P ditty for twenty years.

0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.919
<v Speaker 1>Was like sounding the alarm when she was with Danny

0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:36.160
<v Speaker 1>Kane and was removed from the group that she was in,

0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:38.560
<v Speaker 1>and she was part of making of the band as well.

0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:42.399
<v Speaker 1>And so she in an interview with people said she

0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.880
<v Speaker 1>does not feel vindicated because of course this is horrible,

0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:50.119
<v Speaker 1>like what the victim's experience and how they were exploited.

0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.639
<v Speaker 1>But there is like, Okay, people are finally listening to

0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:55.639
<v Speaker 1>something I've been saying for twenty years.

0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:59.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like there's no winning here. No, there's there's

0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:04.000
<v Speaker 2>no way that anybody can feel like victorious, even the

0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:06.960
<v Speaker 2>people who are now coming forward and testifying a because

0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:09.920
<v Speaker 2>they've probably been subpoenad, like they have to write.

0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:12.320
<v Speaker 1>And that's a good thing to note too, is that

0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:14.240
<v Speaker 1>Cassie Ventura was subpoenad.

0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes, they're not like volunteering to go testify. You don't

0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.919
<v Speaker 2>testify in a federal case like this unless the Feds

0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:23.920
<v Speaker 2>knock on your door right until you went to show up,

0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:24.359
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:26.639
<v Speaker 1>And that was something that I saw online too, And

0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:28.639
<v Speaker 1>this is not the dominant narrative that I've seen, but

0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.159
<v Speaker 1>I have seen a couple of these people kind of

0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:34.720
<v Speaker 1>posing this question, like if you're wondering why Cassie is

0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.560
<v Speaker 1>speaking out now even though she received a settlement, kind

0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:40.240
<v Speaker 1>of like that, oh, that's not enough for you type

0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:42.840
<v Speaker 1>of sentiment, right, And the answer back to that is like, well,

0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:45.600
<v Speaker 1>she's being subpoenad because this is a federal case. This

0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.000
<v Speaker 1>is not a dB case. This is not Cassie versus

0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.199
<v Speaker 1>p Diddy. No, this is a federal case. She's a subpoenad.

0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:54.520
<v Speaker 2>It's the United States, right, it's all of us versus

0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:55.159
<v Speaker 2>shawan Combe.

0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:57.720
<v Speaker 1>When you put it that way, it's the people. It

0:18:57.760 --> 0:18:58.200
<v Speaker 1>is the people.

0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.600
<v Speaker 2>It's the people versus shawan Combe. These were crimes against

0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:05.320
<v Speaker 2>not just one person, but a slew a whole group

0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:08.800
<v Speaker 2>of people, And I don't think that we really know

0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:14.240
<v Speaker 2>all of the victims, no wrapped up in all of this.

0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:17.760
<v Speaker 2>We know some of the big names. We know Cassie.

0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:22.160
<v Speaker 2>There's a Mia now like a former personal assistant who

0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:26.160
<v Speaker 2>has been testifying under a different name Mia, who also

0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:30.760
<v Speaker 2>has testified to like horrible working conditions of violent outbursts

0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:34.200
<v Speaker 2>that she endured from Combs, assaults that she endured from Combs.

0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:36.480
<v Speaker 2>So I think that this is just the tip of

0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:38.280
<v Speaker 2>the iceberg in a lot of ways.

0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:40.120
<v Speaker 1>Don't go anywhere, lokamotives.

0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:46.159
<v Speaker 2>We'll be right back, and we're back with more of

0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:46.920
<v Speaker 2>our episode.

0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:49.680
<v Speaker 1>Prior to the trial, there was a journalist who also

0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:52.159
<v Speaker 1>went on record and talked about how when she was

0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:56.800
<v Speaker 1>working at Vibe and was profiling Sean Combs, like how

0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:59.760
<v Speaker 1>violent he was and how her computer was stolen because

0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:02.439
<v Speaker 1>he didn't want the profile she was writing to be

0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:07.240
<v Speaker 1>published and so like it goes back yeah, decades.

0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:10.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he has retaliated against a lot of people and

0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:14.399
<v Speaker 2>people have been afraid of him. Kid Cutty testified talked

0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:17.600
<v Speaker 2>about his relationship with Cassie and how Shawn Combs didn't

0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:21.560
<v Speaker 2>like it when he found out and Kid Cutty suspects

0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.760
<v Speaker 2>that Shawn Combs broke into his house, opened up a

0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:27.080
<v Speaker 2>bunch of Christmas presents, locked his dog in a room,

0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:29.040
<v Speaker 2>and then later tried to set his car on fire

0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:33.800
<v Speaker 2>with a Molotov cocktail. Like, people have been really targeted

0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:36.560
<v Speaker 2>by this person if they've done things that he doesn't like,

0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:40.879
<v Speaker 2>which explains a lot of why there was such a

0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:44.320
<v Speaker 2>bystander effect with his team, with his assistance in his

0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:47.959
<v Speaker 2>security guards and people who testified to like witnessing him

0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.720
<v Speaker 2>physically assault Cassie and other people, but they never said anything,

0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:55.840
<v Speaker 2>or at least didn't say anything to Puff Daddy, like

0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:58.560
<v Speaker 2>to Shawn Combs, right because they were afraid. They were

0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:00.879
<v Speaker 2>afraid that they would get home or the people that

0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:03.159
<v Speaker 2>they loved would get harmed. And this is how this

0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.879
<v Speaker 2>cycle of abuse and violence continues, right, Especially a person

0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:10.399
<v Speaker 2>in a position of power who pays everybody's salary, you know,

0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:13.440
<v Speaker 2>who like has control over their their careers and they're

0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:17.439
<v Speaker 2>under contract with him, and he maybe showers them with

0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:20.439
<v Speaker 2>gifts and with perks and with niceties and things that

0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:22.359
<v Speaker 2>make it so cool to work with him or to

0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:25.480
<v Speaker 2>date him, and then the violent outburst happens, and it

0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:28.520
<v Speaker 2>is that cycle, that cycle, and then there's threats and coercion. Well,

0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:30.639
<v Speaker 2>if you leave, you're never gonna you're never gonna work

0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:32.800
<v Speaker 2>in this town again. If you leave, I'm gonna release

0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:34.920
<v Speaker 2>all of these tapes that I took in our freak

0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:37.360
<v Speaker 2>offs or or at this party or whatever I made

0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:39.399
<v Speaker 2>you do. And then the night and then the gifts

0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:42.720
<v Speaker 2>come back, and you know, you're honeymooning again, and Okay,

0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:45.000
<v Speaker 2>maybe it's better now, and he feels sorry, but it

0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:47.800
<v Speaker 2>just continues on and on and on. So I'm sure

0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:50.360
<v Speaker 2>Cassie wasn't the only one caught in that cycle with him.

0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:53.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure even staff were caught in that cycle with him.

0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:56.399
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Absolutely, And I think that you bring up the

0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:58.800
<v Speaker 1>good point of like the power and control and the

0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:02.280
<v Speaker 1>intimidation and the base under effect, because there were also

0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:07.080
<v Speaker 1>instances during Cassie's statement that she there were times where

0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:10.080
<v Speaker 1>she did consent to these quote freak offs, right, And

0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:13.400
<v Speaker 1>I think that that's an important thing to note that

0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:16.000
<v Speaker 1>consent can be withdrawn at any time. You know, just

0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:18.320
<v Speaker 1>because you agreed to something one day does not mean

0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:20.200
<v Speaker 1>you agree the next day or even that same night.

0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:23.760
<v Speaker 1>That same day, and so that is something I feel

0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:27.359
<v Speaker 1>like nobody's the perfect victim does not exist, right, and

0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:31.360
<v Speaker 1>so to I think maybe question the validity of her

0:22:31.400 --> 0:22:35.000
<v Speaker 1>experience based on maybe consenting one day and not consenting

0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:37.800
<v Speaker 1>another is not appropriate, right.

0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:40.959
<v Speaker 2>And it's also we have to complicate our understanding of

0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:45.159
<v Speaker 2>consent because if it's consent only because you think something

0:22:45.240 --> 0:22:48.480
<v Speaker 2>bad is going to happen, then that is a type

0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:51.639
<v Speaker 2>of coercive environment, absolutely right, And I think one of

0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:54.520
<v Speaker 2>the nuances And I'm glad that you brought up, you know,

0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:58.040
<v Speaker 2>the idea of consent in this situation, because the defense,

0:22:58.400 --> 0:23:01.840
<v Speaker 2>because there's so much evidence photo video and witness evidence,

0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:06.560
<v Speaker 2>video evidence of his violence towards her and his coercion

0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:10.880
<v Speaker 2>and his retaliation. So the defense for Shan Combs, all

0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:14.080
<v Speaker 2>they can really do is establish that she consented to

0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:17.080
<v Speaker 2>everything and she wanted to participate in everything. So what

0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:19.560
<v Speaker 2>they're doing is looking at some of the text messages

0:23:19.640 --> 0:23:23.880
<v Speaker 2>that have been entered into discovery and saying in these instances,

0:23:24.000 --> 0:23:28.520
<v Speaker 2>Cassie wrote, I'm always down for freak offs. I love

0:23:28.560 --> 0:23:30.760
<v Speaker 2>our freak COFs. I love our fos when we both

0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:34.200
<v Speaker 2>want them, and there have been I guess over the years,

0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:37.040
<v Speaker 2>moments where she wrote things like that. But then there's

0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:41.919
<v Speaker 2>also entered into discovery emails that she wrote right basically

0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:45.080
<v Speaker 2>pleading for him, like to love her. And she wrote

0:23:45.080 --> 0:23:48.720
<v Speaker 2>emails to her mother, you know, like basically asking for help.

0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:52.119
<v Speaker 2>And so it's not like you're saying it's not enough

0:23:52.160 --> 0:23:56.119
<v Speaker 2>to say yes one time, especially if there's all these

0:23:56.160 --> 0:23:58.800
<v Speaker 2>other things going on. Absolutely, you know, like did she

0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:02.239
<v Speaker 2>really have a choice to say yes or no in

0:24:02.280 --> 0:24:04.240
<v Speaker 2>her specific circumstance, I.

0:24:04.160 --> 0:24:07.000
<v Speaker 1>Mean, and even thinking about like your own personal life,

0:24:07.080 --> 0:24:10.960
<v Speaker 1>like there are instances where we have or I have

0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:14.320
<v Speaker 1>said yes when I haven't wanted to, but I know

0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:16.600
<v Speaker 1>that this is important to my partners, so I'm gonna

0:24:16.640 --> 0:24:20.600
<v Speaker 1>say yes, you know. And so these are like the

0:24:20.600 --> 0:24:25.639
<v Speaker 1>the small moments that happen in relationships where you know,

0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:28.879
<v Speaker 1>it's really challenged, like you said, really complicating what consent means.

0:24:29.440 --> 0:24:32.080
<v Speaker 1>Those that power control dynamic may not be involved in

0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:35.439
<v Speaker 1>your relationship, but imagine if they are. And then the

0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:37.879
<v Speaker 1>reasons that you're saying yes when you want to say no.

0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:41.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And per Cassie's testimony, the freak off started when

0:24:41.480 --> 0:24:44.080
<v Speaker 2>she was very young. They started dating at nineteen by

0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:47.280
<v Speaker 2>twenty one, twenty two. He has her engaging in these

0:24:47.320 --> 0:24:50.000
<v Speaker 2>freak Offs and the way that Cassie talks about them,

0:24:50.280 --> 0:24:52.639
<v Speaker 2>which is why I think they are qualifying as a

0:24:52.680 --> 0:24:55.480
<v Speaker 2>type of trafficking. She talks about them like they were

0:24:55.520 --> 0:24:59.280
<v Speaker 2>a job, Like at some point she was full time

0:25:00.280 --> 0:25:03.520
<v Speaker 2>with the freak Offs, like multiple times a week every week.

0:25:03.760 --> 0:25:07.320
<v Speaker 2>They're like benders. They're lasting two, three, four days, so

0:25:07.440 --> 0:25:09.800
<v Speaker 2>she's spending her week engaging in the freak Off and

0:25:09.840 --> 0:25:13.240
<v Speaker 2>then recovering from the freak Off. She's testifying to having

0:25:13.359 --> 0:25:17.240
<v Speaker 2>like non stop UTIs basically for almost ten years, that

0:25:17.400 --> 0:25:20.000
<v Speaker 2>like even the medication stopped working for her because it

0:25:20.040 --> 0:25:24.479
<v Speaker 2>was so chronic. And she's testifying to like basically having

0:25:25.560 --> 0:25:28.960
<v Speaker 2>a roster of male escorts that they were calling so

0:25:29.080 --> 0:25:31.960
<v Speaker 2>often she like knew them by name right, And she

0:25:32.080 --> 0:25:36.000
<v Speaker 2>describes the freak Offs being like almost like plays that

0:25:36.080 --> 0:25:38.600
<v Speaker 2>Diddy was directing, and there's acts and there's scenes and

0:25:38.640 --> 0:25:41.720
<v Speaker 2>their sessions, and she talks about it like a straight

0:25:41.800 --> 0:25:45.840
<v Speaker 2>up job, and that she was basically a sex worker

0:25:45.880 --> 0:25:48.760
<v Speaker 2>for him after a while. And if you think about

0:25:48.760 --> 0:25:51.000
<v Speaker 2>when it started, how she was so young and then

0:25:51.119 --> 0:25:54.359
<v Speaker 2>it kept going for all of her twenties. Basically, you know,

0:25:54.600 --> 0:25:58.119
<v Speaker 2>there's no way that like that was her dream for

0:25:58.160 --> 0:26:01.080
<v Speaker 2>herself and that's what she wanted for herself absolutely, you know.

0:26:01.440 --> 0:26:05.560
<v Speaker 2>But she's under this ten album contract with Ditty and

0:26:05.600 --> 0:26:10.000
<v Speaker 2>she wants to make her music. And the place that

0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:13.439
<v Speaker 2>she lives is also like he's paying for it. You know,

0:26:13.600 --> 0:26:16.439
<v Speaker 2>her family is across the country. It seemed like she

0:26:16.560 --> 0:26:18.399
<v Speaker 2>was genuinely afraid to say no.

0:26:18.800 --> 0:26:23.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I mean that really hits all the points of

0:26:23.160 --> 0:26:27.880
<v Speaker 1>the power and control, right, the intimidation, the isolation, the

0:26:27.920 --> 0:26:29.840
<v Speaker 1>economic abuse, all of it.

0:26:30.160 --> 0:26:32.879
<v Speaker 2>I think something to note too is there's different types

0:26:32.920 --> 0:26:36.800
<v Speaker 2>of like human traffickers and pimps. Like I think people

0:26:36.840 --> 0:26:39.000
<v Speaker 2>think of trafficking and they maybe think, I don't know,

0:26:39.119 --> 0:26:42.520
<v Speaker 2>like narcos or like women who are like working on

0:26:42.560 --> 0:26:45.680
<v Speaker 2>the street, right, But there's a lot of different ways

0:26:45.760 --> 0:26:48.880
<v Speaker 2>that women become trafficked. And so a few years ago

0:26:49.040 --> 0:26:53.280
<v Speaker 2>I participated in this like human trafficking training by this

0:26:53.600 --> 0:26:57.520
<v Speaker 2>anti trafficking organization called the Polaris Project, and they did

0:26:57.640 --> 0:27:02.159
<v Speaker 2>a big study about second trafficking between Mexico and the

0:27:02.240 --> 0:27:05.440
<v Speaker 2>United States. And something that I learned in that sex

0:27:05.480 --> 0:27:09.000
<v Speaker 2>trafficking training is that one of the types of traffickers

0:27:09.080 --> 0:27:12.399
<v Speaker 2>is called like a boyfriend trafficker, and the way that

0:27:12.480 --> 0:27:16.040
<v Speaker 2>you get involved with the boyfriend trafficker is through like

0:27:16.320 --> 0:27:19.399
<v Speaker 2>dating and love and romance, and they romance you and

0:27:19.400 --> 0:27:23.439
<v Speaker 2>it's the honeymoon phase and their person and they are

0:27:23.480 --> 0:27:25.560
<v Speaker 2>your boyfriend and you are dating and it is romantic.

0:27:25.760 --> 0:27:29.720
<v Speaker 2>Eventually that boyfriend says, well, if you love me, then

0:27:29.720 --> 0:27:32.399
<v Speaker 2>you'll do this for me. You know, you'll take this

0:27:32.920 --> 0:27:36.160
<v Speaker 2>package for me and you'll like transport it through the airport,

0:27:36.320 --> 0:27:38.600
<v Speaker 2>or you're going to do this little task for me,

0:27:38.960 --> 0:27:40.840
<v Speaker 2>or you're going to sleep with this person for money,

0:27:40.880 --> 0:27:44.760
<v Speaker 2>and it escalates until before you know it, you're in

0:27:44.760 --> 0:27:47.600
<v Speaker 2>a full on trafficking situation. And it sounds like this

0:27:47.680 --> 0:27:50.280
<v Speaker 2>is what happened with Cassie because she talks about being

0:27:50.320 --> 0:27:53.200
<v Speaker 2>in love with him and loving him and them being

0:27:53.280 --> 0:27:58.320
<v Speaker 2>like an item. So it sounds like he like boyfriended her,

0:27:58.640 --> 0:28:01.320
<v Speaker 2>exploited her into sexual exploitation.

0:28:01.680 --> 0:28:04.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a lot.

0:28:04.840 --> 0:28:07.600
<v Speaker 2>It is a lot. It's fucked up, and our hearts

0:28:07.640 --> 0:28:11.200
<v Speaker 2>go out to Cassie, who is very pregnant also by

0:28:11.240 --> 0:28:13.360
<v Speaker 2>the way, while she's testifying.

0:28:12.840 --> 0:28:15.480
<v Speaker 1>With her third child with her third child.

0:28:15.240 --> 0:28:19.800
<v Speaker 2>By her husband, Alex Fine, formerly personal trainer to both

0:28:19.840 --> 0:28:20.960
<v Speaker 2>her and Shawn Combs.

0:28:21.040 --> 0:28:22.800
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I don't think I knew that Shawn.

0:28:22.520 --> 0:28:28.359
<v Speaker 2>Combs hired Alex Fine to train them and is shortly thereafter,

0:28:29.000 --> 0:28:33.159
<v Speaker 2>you know, Cassie and Alex Fine start to develop feelings

0:28:33.160 --> 0:28:36.720
<v Speaker 2>for one another. She ends her thing with Diddy somehow,

0:28:37.000 --> 0:28:39.160
<v Speaker 2>she like is able to get out of it. Yeah,

0:28:39.720 --> 0:28:43.160
<v Speaker 2>not unscathed. Right, there were assaults and abuse and all

0:28:43.280 --> 0:28:45.840
<v Speaker 2>kinds of stalking going on. But now she's married and

0:28:45.840 --> 0:28:48.800
<v Speaker 2>she has her third baby on the way with her husband.

0:28:49.080 --> 0:28:52.160
<v Speaker 2>This has also been interesting because as she's been testifying,

0:28:52.200 --> 0:28:55.080
<v Speaker 2>her husband has been in the courtroom. Yes, so of course,

0:28:55.080 --> 0:28:57.880
<v Speaker 2>what's the commentary about her.

0:28:57.200 --> 0:29:01.200
<v Speaker 1>Husband she has to listen to, Well, what she quote did,

0:29:01.360 --> 0:29:03.600
<v Speaker 1>what she did, not what she was put through, not

0:29:03.640 --> 0:29:07.000
<v Speaker 1>how she was exploited, but her poor husband.

0:29:07.680 --> 0:29:09.920
<v Speaker 2>Her poor husband, and what do we think about that?

0:29:10.000 --> 0:29:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Because it's like it's like this is so classic.

0:29:12.960 --> 0:29:16.720
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, right, I mean one patriarchy, one oh one

0:29:17.160 --> 0:29:21.440
<v Speaker 1>rape culture, Like you know, it's it's horrible, and but

0:29:21.480 --> 0:29:24.520
<v Speaker 1>it's also not surprising, right to hear that type of

0:29:24.560 --> 0:29:27.720
<v Speaker 1>commentary like, oh, her, it's still centering the man of

0:29:27.840 --> 0:29:31.360
<v Speaker 1>the poor husband, not poor Cassie, and she has to relive,

0:29:31.920 --> 0:29:36.320
<v Speaker 1>be re traumatized and recount these details of a decade.

0:29:36.880 --> 0:29:41.040
<v Speaker 1>But her poor husband, let's deflect, Yeah, and he has

0:29:41.120 --> 0:29:41.640
<v Speaker 1>to hear this.

0:29:42.080 --> 0:29:45.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And so depending on who you are, then it's

0:29:45.440 --> 0:29:48.960
<v Speaker 2>because there are still Ditty supporters for sure. Not everybody

0:29:49.360 --> 0:29:53.440
<v Speaker 2>is like is not not everybody is denouncing him and

0:29:53.520 --> 0:29:54.760
<v Speaker 2>his actions, I mean, and.

0:29:55.080 --> 0:30:00.600
<v Speaker 1>That is is I think the history of any male

0:30:01.280 --> 0:30:05.520
<v Speaker 1>celeb or someone of his caliber, right, even R Kelly

0:30:05.680 --> 0:30:08.280
<v Speaker 1>like still has supporters. Oh yeah, right, Bill Cosby still

0:30:08.280 --> 0:30:10.560
<v Speaker 1>has supporters. Notably, these are three black men, right, and

0:30:10.640 --> 0:30:14.400
<v Speaker 1>so the racial dynamic is obviously very important when talking

0:30:14.440 --> 0:30:18.800
<v Speaker 1>about this Johnny Depp, Johnny Depp has a lot of supporters,

0:30:18.880 --> 0:30:23.000
<v Speaker 1>Kit Scott supporters, and poor amberhard was villainized so much.

0:30:23.120 --> 0:30:25.920
<v Speaker 1>We also have an episode on that because that case,

0:30:25.960 --> 0:30:28.040
<v Speaker 1>I feel to me that was one of the first

0:30:28.080 --> 0:30:31.600
<v Speaker 1>examples of like a TikTok case. Yes, was Amber heard

0:30:31.680 --> 0:30:35.160
<v Speaker 1>versus Johnny Depp? Yeah, which it wasn't even versus them.

0:30:35.200 --> 0:30:37.880
<v Speaker 1>It was a libel case, right, but it was positioned

0:30:37.920 --> 0:30:40.560
<v Speaker 1>on social media as like Amber versus Johnny.

0:30:40.960 --> 0:30:43.680
<v Speaker 2>It was positioned that way. And in both of these

0:30:43.760 --> 0:30:47.600
<v Speaker 2>cases it's so easy for the for a viewer who

0:30:47.680 --> 0:30:50.800
<v Speaker 2>hasn't like looked into it because of the rape culture,

0:30:50.840 --> 0:30:54.640
<v Speaker 2>because of the misogyny. Immediately, it's oh, Amber and Cassie

0:30:54.680 --> 0:30:56.840
<v Speaker 2>like trying to destroy these men and bring them down,

0:30:56.880 --> 0:30:59.520
<v Speaker 2>and why are they speaking up now? Johnny Depp filed

0:30:59.520 --> 0:31:03.880
<v Speaker 2>a lawsuit against Amber heard Relibel because of an essay

0:31:03.920 --> 0:31:06.360
<v Speaker 2>that she wrote that did not name him no, and

0:31:06.400 --> 0:31:09.240
<v Speaker 2>then with this one it's the federal government bringing them

0:31:09.240 --> 0:31:12.120
<v Speaker 2>to court. But in both instances, it's like this woman

0:31:12.160 --> 0:31:16.400
<v Speaker 2>at the center, who has been horribly brutalized, is like

0:31:17.240 --> 0:31:20.680
<v Speaker 2>at fault for something always, always.

0:31:20.240 --> 0:31:22.440
<v Speaker 1>Always, I mean, And it goes to show that like

0:31:22.600 --> 0:31:25.840
<v Speaker 1>there hasn't been a reckoning, a me too reckoning for

0:31:26.000 --> 0:31:30.080
<v Speaker 1>all communities or subsets of the culture. Right. We saw

0:31:30.080 --> 0:31:33.120
<v Speaker 1>it with the film industry in some capacity. We haven't

0:31:33.160 --> 0:31:36.640
<v Speaker 1>necessarily seen it with hip hop and arts hip hop

0:31:36.640 --> 0:31:37.440
<v Speaker 1>and music.

0:31:37.160 --> 0:31:39.240
<v Speaker 2>In the music industry, right, And so.

0:31:39.840 --> 0:31:42.200
<v Speaker 1>It's that that I don't know if it's a ripple effect,

0:31:42.280 --> 0:31:45.920
<v Speaker 1>but it's like, not everyone has had their like their

0:31:45.960 --> 0:31:48.840
<v Speaker 1>me too reckoning, Not each industry has had it yet.

0:31:49.200 --> 0:31:52.600
<v Speaker 1>And in some ways this is a type of reckoning

0:31:52.720 --> 0:31:57.400
<v Speaker 1>because of how big Shawn Combs is and how influential

0:31:57.480 --> 0:32:00.760
<v Speaker 1>he's been in the culture for decades. But this is

0:32:00.800 --> 0:32:03.280
<v Speaker 1>like just the tip of the iceberg, and it's gonna

0:32:03.280 --> 0:32:07.040
<v Speaker 1>take like other people in the industry to actually like

0:32:07.400 --> 0:32:11.400
<v Speaker 1>not just be the bystanders and be like active in

0:32:11.520 --> 0:32:14.560
<v Speaker 1>calling this out exactly before it gets to this point

0:32:14.840 --> 0:32:16.120
<v Speaker 1>exactly exactly.

0:32:16.320 --> 0:32:21.560
<v Speaker 2>And you know this hunger to like make it by

0:32:21.600 --> 0:32:26.520
<v Speaker 2>any means necessary, to like get on and to be successful.

0:32:26.720 --> 0:32:30.720
<v Speaker 2>I also think that that insane hunger to like get

0:32:30.760 --> 0:32:36.080
<v Speaker 2>ahead in the industry drives so much of this this

0:32:36.240 --> 0:32:41.160
<v Speaker 2>issue because whether we're talking about the staff right that

0:32:41.280 --> 0:32:45.000
<v Speaker 2>maybe is like experiencing some like bystander effect and not

0:32:45.120 --> 0:32:48.000
<v Speaker 2>acting because of all the reasons we've talked about, Like

0:32:48.560 --> 0:32:52.560
<v Speaker 2>they're nervous, they have their own careers, they fear retaliation,

0:32:52.960 --> 0:32:55.720
<v Speaker 2>they want to be successful in what they're doing, that

0:32:55.880 --> 0:32:58.400
<v Speaker 2>maybe this has been a big break for them, right.

0:32:58.600 --> 0:33:01.040
<v Speaker 2>And then there's the talent at the center of it,

0:33:01.080 --> 0:33:05.520
<v Speaker 2>and like young talent, impressionable talent you know, from all

0:33:05.560 --> 0:33:08.800
<v Speaker 2>over the place, from different places coming out here in

0:33:08.920 --> 0:33:14.080
<v Speaker 2>these instances to la like chasing a dream and then yeah,

0:33:14.120 --> 0:33:16.160
<v Speaker 2>you think you got your big break, this huge mogul

0:33:16.480 --> 0:33:19.560
<v Speaker 2>has taken a liking to you, but now you're like

0:33:19.720 --> 0:33:22.520
<v Speaker 2>in their clutches and p did he also having been

0:33:22.560 --> 0:33:29.720
<v Speaker 2>linked to some dubious like behavior with Usher, a young

0:33:29.840 --> 0:33:33.520
<v Speaker 2>Usher right when Usher was like sent to like Puffy's

0:33:33.520 --> 0:33:36.920
<v Speaker 2>flavor camp, to like live with puff Daddy when Usher

0:33:36.960 --> 0:33:41.240
<v Speaker 2>was a child. And also Justin Bieber also being linked

0:33:41.320 --> 0:33:44.600
<v Speaker 2>to like nefarious shit with puff Daddy when he was

0:33:44.640 --> 0:33:45.120
<v Speaker 2>a child.

0:33:45.280 --> 0:33:48.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it really does put going back to these like

0:33:49.040 --> 0:33:52.360
<v Speaker 1>crashouts in our previous episode. It really does put maybe

0:33:52.360 --> 0:33:55.680
<v Speaker 1>a Justin Bieber into a different context in light you know,

0:33:55.760 --> 0:33:58.880
<v Speaker 1>he was a child star and what type of exploitation

0:33:59.040 --> 0:34:01.440
<v Speaker 1>did he experience in the industry.

0:34:01.760 --> 0:34:04.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it's one thing for adults even to be

0:34:04.800 --> 0:34:07.720
<v Speaker 2>in these like wild ditty parties, but I feel like

0:34:07.840 --> 0:34:11.920
<v Speaker 2>these kids were there too, you know. And so this

0:34:12.120 --> 0:34:17.360
<v Speaker 2>is like this person has caused like multi generational harm

0:34:17.600 --> 0:34:20.280
<v Speaker 2>when we think about the age range of these different

0:34:20.280 --> 0:34:23.080
<v Speaker 2>people who have been in his who have been in

0:34:23.120 --> 0:34:26.480
<v Speaker 2>his reach. So it really is a wild time decades

0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:29.400
<v Speaker 2>in the making. Yeah, decades in the making. And it

0:34:29.520 --> 0:34:32.279
<v Speaker 2>kind of seems like unfortunately in cases like this, one

0:34:32.360 --> 0:34:35.960
<v Speaker 2>victim is like never enough. Yeah, it's almost like there

0:34:36.000 --> 0:34:36.920
<v Speaker 2>has to be.

0:34:37.160 --> 0:34:40.040
<v Speaker 1>There's definitely pile up absolutely.

0:34:39.719 --> 0:34:42.560
<v Speaker 2>Before action is taken. Thank you all for listening. This

0:34:42.640 --> 0:34:47.120
<v Speaker 2>has been a particularly heavy episode. This case United States

0:34:47.200 --> 0:34:51.440
<v Speaker 2>versus Combs is still all over the news and social media,

0:34:51.680 --> 0:34:54.360
<v Speaker 2>and I anticipate that it will be for some time,

0:34:54.560 --> 0:34:57.880
<v Speaker 2>even after the trial ends. So please give yourself a

0:34:57.920 --> 0:35:02.520
<v Speaker 2>break from scrolling, from taking in this information, and if

0:35:02.520 --> 0:35:06.800
<v Speaker 2>you need resources, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline

0:35:07.280 --> 0:35:10.800
<v Speaker 2>one eight hundred seven nine nine Safe one eight hundred

0:35:10.920 --> 0:35:15.879
<v Speaker 2>seven nine nine Safe and the National Human Trafficking Hotline

0:35:16.440 --> 0:35:19.879
<v Speaker 2>which is at one eight eight eight three seven three

0:35:20.200 --> 0:35:21.680
<v Speaker 2>seven eight eight eight.

0:35:22.360 --> 0:35:24.839
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for listening to another episode of lok at

0:35:24.840 --> 0:35:27.920
<v Speaker 1>Dora Radio. I want to reiterate what Mala said. Please

0:35:28.000 --> 0:35:30.960
<v Speaker 1>take care of yourselves, take a scrolling break, check in

0:35:31.000 --> 0:35:34.640
<v Speaker 1>with your friends, check in with yourself, with your body, hydrate,

0:35:35.280 --> 0:35:36.600
<v Speaker 1>and we will catch you next time.

0:35:37.200 --> 0:35:38.200
<v Speaker 2>Thanks you, Thos.

0:35:38.600 --> 0:35:42.920
<v Speaker 1>Lokata Radio is executive produced by Yosa Fem and Mala Munjos.

0:35:43.120 --> 0:35:45.560
<v Speaker 2>Stephanie Franco is our producer.

0:35:45.440 --> 0:35:48.440
<v Speaker 1>Story editing by Medosa.

0:35:47.840 --> 0:35:49.560
<v Speaker 2>Creative direction by me Mala.

0:35:49.760 --> 0:35:52.360
<v Speaker 1>Look at Dora Radio is a part of iHeartRadio's Michael

0:35:52.440 --> 0:35:53.720
<v Speaker 1>Dura podcast Network.

0:35:53.920 --> 0:35:56.759
<v Speaker 2>You can listen to Lokata Radio on the iHeartRadio app

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<v Speaker 2>or wherever you get your podcasts.

0:35:58.760 --> 0:36:01.000
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0:36:01.040 --> 0:36:01.920
<v Speaker 1>share with your homegirl.

0:36:02.080 --> 0:36:04.600
<v Speaker 2>And thank you to our local moorees, to our listeners

0:36:04.600 --> 0:36:06.160
<v Speaker 2>for tuning in each and every week.

0:36:06.280 --> 0:36:07.160
<v Speaker 1>Besitos