Speaker 1: The Dream Team Tapes Season two. Kobe Lebron and the
Speaker 1: Redeem Team is a production of Diversion Podcasts in association
Speaker 1: with I Heart Radio Diversion Podcasts. The players selected for
Speaker 1: the honor of representing the United States in the two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight Beijing Olympic Games are Kobe Bryant. We
Speaker 1: look forward to this for a while, you know, to
Speaker 1: be in this position now here we don't represent our
Speaker 1: country Venice, especially special Lebron James. We look for an
Speaker 1: opportunity of the weekend on a flam and being the
Speaker 1: best in the world. I guess the Redeem Team is
Speaker 1: because it is right. We're the best team in the world.
Speaker 1: We're the best team in the world. Where we put
Speaker 1: basketball America, basketball wheels beat. Which is that time? All,
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Kobe Lebron and the Redeemed Team.
Speaker 1: When at last we reached the Chinese capital city of Beijing,
Speaker 1: one of the oldest cities in the world, with a
Speaker 1: history that dates back at least three thousand years and
Speaker 1: was once known still known in some quarters as pe King.
Speaker 1: But we are not here co host j A Dande
Speaker 1: to speak of a delicious crispy duck entree. We are
Speaker 1: here to speak of the two thousand and eight team
Speaker 1: that entered the Olympic Games as well. I suppose the favorite,
Speaker 1: but not the overwhelming favorite, So how's that possible? And
Speaker 1: just give a brief update before we talk about the
Speaker 1: Olympics on how things were looking as they headed in
Speaker 1: the world had clearly clawed up to the United States
Speaker 1: and there were several US losses that we've chronicled here.
Speaker 1: So this was a stronger U S team certainly, but
Speaker 1: some people are calling this the strongest Olympic field that
Speaker 1: we've ever seen, the deepest Olympic field that we've ever seen.
Speaker 1: And Spain certainly was deep yed Palkasov Rudy Fernandez. It
Speaker 1: was a caldron Argentina led by Manucan Nobli Andres Noconi.
Speaker 1: So those are the two main threats. Lithuania still an
Speaker 1: old threat from back in the days, Russia still couldn't
Speaker 1: completely be counted out, and China was playing at home.
Speaker 1: So even though they didn't have a tremendous amount of
Speaker 1: NBA talent, they had had a couple of players, most
Speaker 1: ob Yao Ming play in the NBA in recent years,
Speaker 1: and they had a tremendous home court advantage. So those
Speaker 1: are all the obstacles that in the path the team USA.
Speaker 1: They were still the wonderful favorite. You would have had
Speaker 1: a bet four hundred dollars to win one hundred dollars,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't a dominant and and there was some
Speaker 1: good value beds out there that we're worth a shot.
Speaker 1: I don't think he wanted to bet against the Dream team.
Speaker 1: You had a chance to make some money betting against
Speaker 1: the redeem team. This is the pre Fandel's uh you know,
Speaker 1: bet anyone line. It sounds like you know something about
Speaker 1: this stuff. Man, I'm not a gambler, but I know
Speaker 1: just enough to know about that. It's funny. Chris Sheridan
Speaker 1: was covering international basketball for ESPN and and he had
Speaker 1: somewhat of a gambling disposition, we could say. So. So
Speaker 1: when you go back and you read his stuff previewing
Speaker 1: those Olympics, you're gonna see a touch of that, more
Speaker 1: than a touch. I just remember that movie that I
Speaker 1: might have been called The Gambler. James Cohn is in
Speaker 1: his bathtub in the beginning of the movie and he bets.
Speaker 1: I think he bet on the Lakers and they lost
Speaker 1: like by a basket at the buzzer. He almost throws
Speaker 1: the radio into the bathtub to electric cute himself. You know,
Speaker 1: since then I was not going to get it on gambling.
Speaker 1: And the thing is, Jack on this team, you had
Speaker 1: the guys with the memory of losing, which wasn't something
Speaker 1: that we've seen before if you think about it, Uh,
Speaker 1: you didn't have that predisposition. Maybe had it with with
Speaker 1: David Robinson who was on the Olympic team and then
Speaker 1: he was on the Dream Team in the team, but
Speaker 1: you had more guys including Lebron and Dwayne Wade and
Speaker 1: Carmelo Anthony who had been on that two thousand four team,
Speaker 1: and then you had guys like Chris Bosh who his
Speaker 1: last experience in a team you say uniform was losing
Speaker 1: to Greece in the semifinals in two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: and he didn't play in two thousand seven he was injured.
Speaker 1: So the last time he really played in international competition
Speaker 1: he had that loss and it stuck with him for
Speaker 1: two years. And he told us how that that changed
Speaker 1: his mindset heading into these games. And I think when
Speaker 1: you when you're humbled by losing, it kind of helps
Speaker 1: it out a little bit. You know, everybody is much
Speaker 1: more willing I think, Um, you know, I forgot the saying.
Speaker 1: But yeah, once you're successful, it's it's it becomes different.
Speaker 1: But at that time, you know, we were in a
Speaker 1: position of of sacrifice. We had to do more sacrifice
Speaker 1: than what was done before in order to win because
Speaker 1: we knew the world is better at basketball. We can't
Speaker 1: just put a team together once for ten days and
Speaker 1: just go out and whoop ass. And you know, we've
Speaker 1: got to play some damn defense, you know. So it
Speaker 1: was always a spirited effort from everybody to make sure
Speaker 1: um that they were bringing what they needed to bring. Regardless.
Speaker 1: Now tonight's episode eight, we're calling for reasons that will
Speaker 1: become clear. No excuses and j A, So much happens
Speaker 1: in this episode. There are no excuses for it not
Speaker 1: being good. We have a memorable tour that the team
Speaker 1: took in New York City. Um, we have a first
Speaker 1: class Phil Jackson invitation. Unfortunately we won't be able to
Speaker 1: see it, but we can hear about it. A party
Speaker 1: in Macau when one of the teams, Superstar Ours gets
Speaker 1: left behind and then they had to decide whether to
Speaker 1: return for him or not if a mass of Chinese
Speaker 1: welcome for Kobe Bryant, a game one of the Olympics
Speaker 1: that drew a billion eyes literally and a memorable opening
Speaker 1: jump shot by uh someone we're gonna talk about, as
Speaker 1: well as an in game nap by a famous American.
Speaker 1: But first, j A set up the meeting that sets
Speaker 1: up the title no excuses. Well, we talked a lot
Speaker 1: about meetings in this because there's some dramatic moments in meetings,
Speaker 1: and it would be really easy to just say that
Speaker 1: it all happened the first time they ever got together,
Speaker 1: and they made it sound like that at times, like
Speaker 1: there was this one super duper meeting and all these
Speaker 1: things got said, and it really set the tone for
Speaker 1: how this redeemed team story was gonna play out. But
Speaker 1: Sean Ford and Craig Miller from USA Basketball were both
Speaker 1: nice enough to break down what happened when and which
Speaker 1: meeting some of these things took place. So in two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight, they're opening meeting for what's going to
Speaker 1: be the run through the Olympics. They they had their
Speaker 1: usual get together and this time it was Lebron James
Speaker 1: who spoke out and Mike Shazowski told us about that.
Speaker 1: The last guy was Lebron, and he talked, he was eloquent,
Speaker 1: he said no excuses, and that became our first standard
Speaker 1: and they really kind of embraced that. And it was
Speaker 1: our guy, Craig Miller, the longtime PR director for USA Basketball,
Speaker 1: who filled us in really on what Lebron had to say.
Speaker 1: And I remember Lebron saying there's no excuses, and and
Speaker 1: then he elaborated. He said, you know, in the NBA,
Speaker 1: I can kind of write off not winning an NBA
Speaker 1: championship by saying, I wish I had Kobe, I wish
Speaker 1: I had Chris Paul is my point guard. I wish
Speaker 1: I had Carmelo out there. I wish I had d
Speaker 1: Wade running with me because we're all here, we're all
Speaker 1: together because we've got no excuses now, right, there's no
Speaker 1: there's no town excuse. There's no not working hard if
Speaker 1: there's no And to me, that was that was a
Speaker 1: really strong openings statement by Lebron to the team. You know,
Speaker 1: it's funny, Jay help people everybody we talked to remember
Speaker 1: those meetings and when teams are together for a long time,
Speaker 1: like over the season meetings, become a problem. Chuck Daily
Speaker 1: used to have this great soliloquy he would go on.
Speaker 1: I asked him one time why once in a while
Speaker 1: during a time out, Chuck would just sit there with
Speaker 1: his arms folded, and Chuck went, well, there's too many meetings.
Speaker 1: Time out. That's a meeting, half time, that's a meeting.
Speaker 1: After the game, that's a meeting. Next day at practice,
Speaker 1: that's a meeting. Pregame meeting, meeting, meeting, meeting. That's all
Speaker 1: we did. You get sick of them. But when these
Speaker 1: teams are together for a short amount of time and
Speaker 1: they have a great collection of players together. I remember
Speaker 1: it was the same thing with the Dream Team, um
Speaker 1: that they the meetings do not become just another thing.
Speaker 1: They become sort of a real important part of what happened. Now,
Speaker 1: these guys were a really almost perfect mixture of being
Speaker 1: a young and an old team. You had the young
Speaker 1: bucks Lebron d Wade, Chris Bosh, Carmelo. Then you had
Speaker 1: the grizzled veteran Jay Kidd. I don't know what you
Speaker 1: call Kobe in the apex of his career, maybe or
Speaker 1: just yeah, he's he's twenty eight years old and into
Speaker 1: that summer. So he's right in the heart of his
Speaker 1: career and he just he's he's coming off the m
Speaker 1: v P, his first and only m v P award. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you had a really great mixture, guys. But the
Speaker 1: important thing is what we're gonna talk about is they
Speaker 1: were young enough and enthusiastic enough that you'd get him
Speaker 1: to do things. You know, And I don't think you
Speaker 1: if you would have said to Michael Jordan's before the
Speaker 1: ninety two Dream Team crusade to Barcelona, you know, Mike,
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a little goodwill tour of the United States.
Speaker 1: You know, we want you to pack a bunch of
Speaker 1: clothes and we're, uh, we're gonna take off and promote
Speaker 1: the team. And no, that was not gonna happen. But
Speaker 1: I know you remember this sort of pre Olympic tour
Speaker 1: that the the Redeemed Team did and it produced some
Speaker 1: pretty pretty cool moments. Yeah, they went to New York
Speaker 1: and the reason it stands out is they packed so
Speaker 1: much into that trip. There. They were going on the
Speaker 1: morning shows like Good Morning America. They were showing up
Speaker 1: at Rucker Park and and doing stuff on the playgrounds
Speaker 1: with the kids. They were all over the place. Uh.
Speaker 1: They even took a boat trip out through uh, you know,
Speaker 1: Harbor with Statue of Liberty in the background. All this
Speaker 1: stuff was going on. And one of the moments that
Speaker 1: that was captured on the mini cameras that were around
Speaker 1: to chronicle this whole thing was this this interplay between
Speaker 1: Kobe and Lebron, And to me, it was really indicative
Speaker 1: of how Lebron was able to break through the I
Speaker 1: wouldn't even call a facade Jack the fortress, this impenetrable
Speaker 1: fortress that Kobe and Kobe. That was Kobe. And so
Speaker 1: there's this this interplay and it's joking around and in
Speaker 1: it Lebron actually has the audacity to imitate Kobe Bryant
Speaker 1: the way he wore his his warmups and and everything
Speaker 1: else and just the way he operated. And Mike Sizevsky
Speaker 1: told us about it. It really stuck out in his
Speaker 1: mind and he's got fond memories of that. Both those
Speaker 1: guys have great, a great sense of humor, you know, like, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, Lebron really likes to joke a lot and
Speaker 1: goof around a lot. And I can remember we're doing
Speaker 1: a photo shoot. We did all these iconic things with
Speaker 1: each team so that they would get a field. So
Speaker 1: we're on a boat, a ferry boat in New York,
Speaker 1: going out to the statue a Liberty where we're going
Speaker 1: to use that as a backdrop. And there Lebron. We're
Speaker 1: in our warm ups. Then they also had suits, and
Speaker 1: Lebron put his warm up pants up to his chest
Speaker 1: and his pants were high then and he was in
Speaker 1: Kobe and then he filled with Kobe's coach and uh,
Speaker 1: say triangle triangle. He put up one finger, Yeah, waiting
Speaker 1: a game. You know that. That was Felst triangle. And uh,
Speaker 1: Kobe's rolling around on the floor. And so they used
Speaker 1: that sense of humor a lot. So Kobe's more serious
Speaker 1: than yet he's he's cracking up at Lebron. Lebron was
Speaker 1: definitely the jokester. Some people thought Lebron didn't take things
Speaker 1: quite seriously enough. We've seen obviously he's serious enough to
Speaker 1: be a four time NBA champion. Uh, but at this point,
Speaker 1: I think it was something that Kobe needed, Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: somebody who he respected enough to allow him to pope
Speaker 1: fund at him and uh, someone who was playful enough
Speaker 1: to bring out that playful side of Kobe. Shack was
Speaker 1: a big, playful guy. But Kobe at that time was
Speaker 1: trying to establish himself when he first came into League
Speaker 1: and was a little bit resentful of the big brother
Speaker 1: label that had tried to be a fixation act. Kobe
Speaker 1: was tired of being the little brother. He grew up
Speaker 1: with two older sisters. He wanted to be his own man.
Speaker 1: But now he and Lebron were there somewhat as peers,
Speaker 1: and for whatever reason, and I think for that reason,
Speaker 1: the relationship worked better. You know, we don't say enough
Speaker 1: about this, but you know, Lebron is really good at
Speaker 1: that stuff. Like Lebron's an actor. I mean, you you know,
Speaker 1: he cast in that like, Okay, he's not playing Hamlet
Speaker 1: next to Amy Schumer, but he's damned good in that movie.
Speaker 1: And we always looked at Michael Jordan's as the ultimate,
Speaker 1: you know, crossover guy kind of, but Michael really was
Speaker 1: sort of wooden and I'm probably gonna get in trouble
Speaker 1: with that, but you know, he had he had a
Speaker 1: certain range for for to to act interact with Spike
Speaker 1: and you know, hayneses underwear. Lebron is like, you know,
Speaker 1: he's an old guy in a barber shop. I mean,
Speaker 1: he he is a true actor and I would have
Speaker 1: I wish I could have. I would have paid some
Speaker 1: money to watch his uh invitation of Phil Jackson. That
Speaker 1: would have been pretty cool. Well, it was mostly Kobe.
Speaker 1: He did a little bit of Phil calling in the
Speaker 1: plays from the side, but the fact that he was
Speaker 1: able to imitate Kobe to Kobe's face is not something
Speaker 1: that many people could have gotten away with. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: that wasn't all they were doing. That. The reason they
Speaker 1: were on the boat in the first place was Jerry
Speaker 1: Colangelo wanted to get the shot, a shot with the
Speaker 1: members of the Deemed Team in their Team USA outfits
Speaker 1: with the Statue of Liberty in the background, And so
Speaker 1: Craig Miller described for as how they pulled that photo off.
Speaker 1: We have a really cool iconic photo of the team
Speaker 1: with the Statue of Liberty in the background around the
Speaker 1: front of the boat and they turned the boat and um,
Speaker 1: it's an amazing photo. Was a beautiful blue day. It
Speaker 1: was done before we started training camp. Um, we carved
Speaker 1: out like I think two or three days in New
Speaker 1: York where we did all these things, and uh, I
Speaker 1: think it really just set the tone for the bonding,
Speaker 1: the importance of representing your country, and then the committment
Speaker 1: that was going to be needed by all the players. Nobody,
Speaker 1: nobody skipped the event, nobody lepped out of the media. Um.
Speaker 1: Everybody did what was asked a woman and it was
Speaker 1: a huge, huge success, Jack. That doesn't mean that everyone
Speaker 1: was all gung ho about this and USA ra RA,
Speaker 1: And if you think about it, Ski and Jerry Colangelo
Speaker 1: were very big on Statue Liberty and the entry point
Speaker 1: in Ellis Island and all time because that's probably the
Speaker 1: way that their answers came to the country. If you
Speaker 1: think about the makeup of the players on the team,
Speaker 1: I'm guessing their origin story in their arrival in the
Speaker 1: United States isn't quite the old Las Island saga, if
Speaker 1: you if you know what I mean, Jack, So not
Speaker 1: at all. They didn't They didn't necessarily have the same
Speaker 1: sentiment and and the motions that had seen the statue
Speaker 1: and this eagerness to have their picture taken in front
Speaker 1: of the Statue of Liberty, and but they went along
Speaker 1: with it, and I think they got what was going on,
Speaker 1: and I think they understood that this was part of
Speaker 1: what being on this team meant, and Jason Kidd described
Speaker 1: to us his memories of that day on the boat
Speaker 1: and the stature of Liberty. Yes, Um, when you look
Speaker 1: at the photo on the boat, um statue of Liberty, right, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't think there was a lot of people excited
Speaker 1: about going on the boat and try and take a
Speaker 1: picture and have to you know, be perfect and everybody
Speaker 1: be still. But again I think you just nailed it.
Speaker 1: Like they were young enough like, hey, guys, let's just
Speaker 1: get on our place. So as sooner we do this
Speaker 1: as soon as the boat can head in, right, and
Speaker 1: they get it and so but they were like, why
Speaker 1: are we you know, taking up a picture on the boat,
Speaker 1: you know, like like so you know, there was probably
Speaker 1: a look, you know, complaining. But at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, as long as you told them we can
Speaker 1: get to the finish line, as sooner you do it,
Speaker 1: the sooner we're going back in. So um that's how
Speaker 1: that worked. And I remember being on that boat because
Speaker 1: they weren't very happy about the boat picture, but it
Speaker 1: all worked out. Yeah. I kind of came more from
Speaker 1: because of age and the color of my skin, I
Speaker 1: can and came more from the Colangelo Mike Shaski. Uh,
Speaker 1: my my wife's grandmother landed at Ellis Island. Her plaque
Speaker 1: from Italy, you know, is up there, and it meant
Speaker 1: something to me. And I took that music cruise one time.
Speaker 1: I remember my wife and I walking through, uh, towards
Speaker 1: the harbor boat with a cooler and people shouting tourists, tourists,
Speaker 1: you know. But we got on the boat and got
Speaker 1: that shot of the Statue of Liberty behind us, and
Speaker 1: we both went, you know, all right, it was embarrassing
Speaker 1: walking up there, but uh, but this is pretty cool.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Kobe Lebron and the redeem Team. Jay
Speaker 1: and I will be back in a minute, you know,
Speaker 1: before we go any further, Jay, these these things. He's
Speaker 1: even going out to dinner with a team, a famous team.
Speaker 1: When you have Kobe Lebron, you know, it's not a
Speaker 1: simple thing. And one guy, before we go any further,
Speaker 1: I think we should mention and he's kind of been
Speaker 1: with us on this tour all the way through. And
Speaker 1: that's Sean Ford, now called the director of Basketball Operations,
Speaker 1: and uh, every I think just about every person mentioned
Speaker 1: Sean Ford, through whom most of the arrangements were made
Speaker 1: and uh, here's Mike Saski talking about Sean Ford, the
Speaker 1: guy who never get the at A for being like
Speaker 1: m v P of Shawn Ford. Shaun Ford and I
Speaker 1: lived with each other, so to speak. He would know everything.
Speaker 1: These guys we're planning to do and we gotta gotta
Speaker 1: take care of this this and there are a lot
Speaker 1: of moving parts. Once they're off the court, So the
Speaker 1: tour is over, they come back to Las Vegas. They
Speaker 1: demolished Canada in one exhibition game, and then they packed
Speaker 1: their bags for two games in Macau, two games in
Speaker 1: Shanghai before reaching the Olympics. Well, one of the things
Speaker 1: that struck me ja was these just weren't any teams
Speaker 1: they were playing. I was a little surprised. I don't
Speaker 1: remember these games, to be honest, But they played Turkey, Lithuania, Russia,
Speaker 1: and Australia. They won all of the games. First of all,
Speaker 1: you're surprised they played that kind of exhibition schedule or
Speaker 1: is that sort of what you do? I mean, a
Speaker 1: dream team didn't play any exhibitions, you know, they just
Speaker 1: went to the Olympics. Yeah, they just they did the
Speaker 1: Turn of the America's and they won those handily. I
Speaker 1: mean I think they were prep Remember they played that
Speaker 1: college Select team. They had guys like Penny Hardaway, grand Hill,
Speaker 1: and Chris Webber. And remember that was the only team
Speaker 1: that beat the Dream Team in the scrimmage in right,
Speaker 1: that was like the second or third day of practice,
Speaker 1: just kind of get it ready. But you know, the
Speaker 1: idea playing these good A teams, I don't know. It
Speaker 1: just surprised me a little bit. But anyway, not everything
Speaker 1: went uh smoothly, including on the social front. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: they're still bonding, still hanging out. And one of the
Speaker 1: reasons I think they went to matt Macau is that
Speaker 1: it's the Las Vegas of China, basically, right, A lot
Speaker 1: of the same hotel properties that you see in Vegas
Speaker 1: are there in Macau, and so it was a good
Speaker 1: socializing opportunity for some of the guys in this group
Speaker 1: is coming together and believe it or not, there even
Speaker 1: inviting Kobe Bryant. Now, Jack, I was trying to think
Speaker 1: in Kobe's Laker years, I do on'tly remember him going
Speaker 1: out and seeing him out at a post championship party
Speaker 1: and that two thousand, two thousand to three run Shack
Speaker 1: had a party one year and and Kobe showed up
Speaker 1: at that, but noticeably, Kobe was back in the VIP
Speaker 1: area and Shack was out in the main area. And
Speaker 1: I'm not even sure how much they interacted throughout the night.
Speaker 1: I was going back and forth, but Kobe stayed back
Speaker 1: in there and Shack stayed out in the main area.
Speaker 1: But guys like Rick Fox and Derek Fisher would have
Speaker 1: parties and you wouldn't see Kobe at those. I don't
Speaker 1: recall seeing him at some of the hotel parties on
Speaker 1: the road when they were they won the championship in Philly,
Speaker 1: or they won the championship in New Jersey, and their
Speaker 1: partying back at the hotels, you wouldn't see Kobe there. Uh.
Speaker 1: I didn't see Kobe at the party the Lakers had
Speaker 1: had at the Playboy Mansion when they won in two
Speaker 1: thousand and So he's not someone you see out and
Speaker 1: about partying at that stage in his career. One thing
Speaker 1: we're learning here, by the way, is you went to
Speaker 1: a hell of a lot more parties than I did.
Speaker 1: By the way, that was life come from the Lakers, Jack.
Speaker 1: I mean, I see that's the problem. That's the one
Speaker 1: drawback sports illustrated. Right that the series ends, the finals
Speaker 1: are over, and you gotta be up in your room
Speaker 1: all night writing man. I had a ten thirty Pacific
Speaker 1: time deadline, and once that thing was in, it was
Speaker 1: time to go hang out. But by this time, this age,
Speaker 1: and with this group most significantly, I think Kobe is
Speaker 1: becoming somewhat of a socialite, and that leads to this
Speaker 1: little misadventure that they have when they're going out for
Speaker 1: a night on the town of Maccau. You know, we
Speaker 1: were going, um, leaving the hotel to go to a party,
Speaker 1: and uh we were waiting, and unfortunately he wasn't on time,
Speaker 1: so we left and and Lebron was like, hey, you said,
Speaker 1: you know, we be on time. If you're not all
Speaker 1: the time, we leave. So we we left, and uh
Speaker 1: we got a call that we had to turn around
Speaker 1: and go kick him up. Um. Lebron wasn't too happy
Speaker 1: about that. Where was it that, Uh, this was in
Speaker 1: Macau and so um we were going from the Hotel
Speaker 1: Macau to the win um to see the win and
Speaker 1: so when we left, um, alright, Lebron was like, you
Speaker 1: said on time, we gotta go. So we left and
Speaker 1: mid way through the drive, we get a call that
Speaker 1: we have to turn around and go get Kobe, and
Speaker 1: Lebron was not happy about it, but um to Lebron's
Speaker 1: you know, give Lebron credit. We did turn around and
Speaker 1: we went back to pick up Kobe, and we let
Speaker 1: Kobe know that you know that you can't you have
Speaker 1: to be on time or we're leaving. But we can't
Speaker 1: leave any man behind. So we came back to get
Speaker 1: you this one time. And that was Jason Kidd, who
Speaker 1: in a minute or two is going to tell us
Speaker 1: about another sort of Kobe thing that happened when they
Speaker 1: moved on to Shanghai. But and it's about shot selection
Speaker 1: and the shots that Kobe took before we do that. Ja,
Speaker 1: It's always interesting to me shot selection for a superstar player,
Speaker 1: for a score, a dry dead guy that you're gonna
Speaker 1: ride his points to the championship or wherever it's gonna
Speaker 1: take you. Shot selection something you can always talk about.
Speaker 1: But to me, it's not that important. I mean, people
Speaker 1: used to bitch about some of the shots Kobe took. Well,
Speaker 1: let me tell you something, Larry Bird. You know, Mr
Speaker 1: Fundamental took some of the for one of a better
Speaker 1: word shittiest shots you could ever take Jordan's did. It's
Speaker 1: part of kind of the deal, isn't it with being
Speaker 1: a scorer, like this is what this is what you do?
Speaker 1: You know once in a while, somewhat Kobe took it
Speaker 1: to an extreme and Kobe seemed to relish in the
Speaker 1: degree of difficulty. Uh. That did lead to this maybe
Speaker 1: someone dubious title, but I think he was the best
Speaker 1: bad shot maker of all time, and that he could
Speaker 1: get himself in a position where it was a bad shot,
Speaker 1: but he could make it, and he was comfortable taking
Speaker 1: and making those shots. It's one of the reasons I
Speaker 1: always say, if I had a second left for the
Speaker 1: last shot, I'm going to Kobe. If I've got eight
Speaker 1: seconds and there's enough time to create a good shot,
Speaker 1: then I'm putting the ball in Michael Jordan's hands. If
Speaker 1: I've only got a second or a few fractions of
Speaker 1: a second left to take a shot and that means
Speaker 1: I can't get a good shot, I'm going to Kobe Bryant,
Speaker 1: who is the best bad shot maker of all time.
Speaker 1: I ran that by Phil Jackson one time, who coach
Speaker 1: both Michael and Kobe, and he agreed with me. So,
Speaker 1: so that's that's one notion. Jack. Another thing with this
Speaker 1: is that the fact that these players and his coaching
Speaker 1: staff had to encounter that and had to figure out
Speaker 1: a way to get Kobe to take less of those
Speaker 1: and to trust his teammates a little more. In some ways,
Speaker 1: the entire Kobe experience that we heard Phil Jackson describe
Speaker 1: in in the second episode of this podcast series, it
Speaker 1: was condensed into these couple of summers with the Olympic
Speaker 1: basketball team, and so they experienced the whole run of
Speaker 1: Kobe and and all the pluses and the minuses that
Speaker 1: come with Kobe having on your team, the experience in
Speaker 1: a very short period of time. But I'd say the
Speaker 1: outcome was ultimately the same that Kobe looked, learned to
Speaker 1: work within the system, and the team was successful because
Speaker 1: of it. But it doesn't always come easily, Jack, No,
Speaker 1: you know, this just occurred to me. The mega Outlander shot,
Speaker 1: which is the Steph Curry Damian Lillard a little bit
Speaker 1: hard and thirty footer. I wonder which came about, you know,
Speaker 1: the three point shots. Now a decade we've been talking
Speaker 1: about it, but those bombs is a new thing, a
Speaker 1: little bit new four or five years, and I wonder
Speaker 1: if Kobe would have got it, would have got into
Speaker 1: the thirty ft thirty two ft jump shot type of thing.
Speaker 1: You know, he would have done it against the double team.
Speaker 1: Though these guys are doing it. They're they're they're finding
Speaker 1: some space. If you leave them open from thirty, they're
Speaker 1: gonna pull up. If you double team Kobe from thirty.
Speaker 1: In this era of the NBA, he's suiting it against
Speaker 1: the double team. That's the difference. And and you know,
Speaker 1: it's funny. Right around this time I was when I
Speaker 1: did you know, I did this book on the Sons
Speaker 1: oh five six. They spent three quarters of their time
Speaker 1: for the first round playoff talking about how to defense
Speaker 1: Kobe and mark I VRONI would lose hours of sleep
Speaker 1: trying to figure out do we let him shoot and
Speaker 1: guard everybody else or do we really shut down on
Speaker 1: Kobe and feel that they can't, you know, sort of
Speaker 1: the elemental question when you're playing against a great player.
Speaker 1: And he said, well, if he goes this way, will
Speaker 1: double him this way and all this, and d'An Tony
Speaker 1: says to him, well, what happens when there's four goddamn
Speaker 1: guys around him, and he just gets the ball and
Speaker 1: shoots and goes does what he does the rise up
Speaker 1: he called it. Ronny goes, well, there's nothing we can
Speaker 1: do about that. That's just that's what's gonna happen. But anyway,
Speaker 1: so Jason Kidd and then Carmelo is going to follow him,
Speaker 1: both talk about this inclination of Kobe, no surprise, but
Speaker 1: now they're seeing it firsthand there on his team, this
Speaker 1: inclination to take really uh wild shots, crazy shots even
Speaker 1: for somebody as skillful as Kobe. And here's Jason Kidd
Speaker 1: and then Mellow talking about it. Kobe would take some
Speaker 1: crazy shots. You know. There was a point in practice
Speaker 1: where I asked him could he catch and shoot? And
Speaker 1: he looked at me like I was speaking a different language,
Speaker 1: and so, um, I just said, do you always have
Speaker 1: to dribble the ball? You know, to to shoot? You know?
Speaker 1: And uh, I think he took offense to it at first,
Speaker 1: but I think I was really actually just trying to
Speaker 1: help him make the game easier. Um, and I my
Speaker 1: whole thing was to say, hey, if you just can
Speaker 1: catch and shoot, that sets up the whole dribble, That
Speaker 1: sets up everything that you are extremely good at and
Speaker 1: I and I thought, you know, I was trying to
Speaker 1: help him, but I think he was. He was looking
Speaker 1: at me like, no, no, that's how I get my rhythm,
Speaker 1: that's how I play. And I was like, okay, all right,
Speaker 1: we'll figure out something else. But he he took some
Speaker 1: some crazy shots. Um, but I understand why, because you know,
Speaker 1: you just never know, and at the time I didn't know.
Speaker 1: But understanding who Kobe is now, um, he was always
Speaker 1: going to be prepared for a situation that he had
Speaker 1: to make a shot, a tough shot, someone would call
Speaker 1: it a crazy shot, but he would always have the
Speaker 1: answer that I've worked on this. And most people would
Speaker 1: not believe that. The pre notion that everybody had about
Speaker 1: Kobe him coming on the team, everybody expected that him
Speaker 1: to bring what he was doing with the Lakers, and
Speaker 1: you know, everybody just thought that's what he was gonna
Speaker 1: do coming on that team. And that was as leaders
Speaker 1: on the team that was approached before that. You know,
Speaker 1: it was sit down with Code like listen, bro, like,
Speaker 1: we don't need the Laker Kobe, Like you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like we we need like, we we need
Speaker 1: you to be who you are, but you're playing with
Speaker 1: you know, you're playing with the best. Now you're playing
Speaker 1: the best of the best. So I think at first
Speaker 1: it took him a little while for for him to
Speaker 1: adjust to that. So these guys are learning the delicate
Speaker 1: dance not always so delicate at times that that comes
Speaker 1: with playing alongside Kobe Bryant. And it sort of comes
Speaker 1: to ahead right before the Olympics in the last these
Speaker 1: exhibition games. Jack you question why they did it. Apparently
Speaker 1: they needed it to to work out some of the
Speaker 1: kinks that they had going on this team. So they're
Speaker 1: they're playing Australia in Shanghai and it's their last of
Speaker 1: these exhibitions tour games. But before they get to Beijing
Speaker 1: and play and it gets a little out of hands
Speaker 1: with some of these shots that that Kobe is taking,
Speaker 1: and it leads to a showdown, a meeting that Showski
Speaker 1: felt he had to take and schedule with Kobe Bryant,
Speaker 1: and he did so with great trepidation. And so coach
Speaker 1: k describes that that whole build up and how that
Speaker 1: meeting went down. We're gonna win, and in the first half,
Speaker 1: Kobe start taking Kobe Waker shots, which they had not
Speaker 1: been doing and you could see the whole team and
Speaker 1: Lebron is, you know, like you're sitting and the team's
Speaker 1: suiting the free throw or something, and you know how
Speaker 1: Lebron can look at you, and he looks at me.
Speaker 1: I know we got a real problem. And I said,
Speaker 1: I will take care of this. Trust me, and he
Speaker 1: looked again. I said, please trust me, let's not and
Speaker 1: I don't want this whole thing blowing up right now,
Speaker 1: and and uh he did so. But then we were
Speaker 1: going to Beijing. So we were up all night as
Speaker 1: the staff literally all night trying to figure out how
Speaker 1: to handle this. And I said, give me his shots
Speaker 1: with a you know, a computer. I'll have an individual
Speaker 1: meeting with Kobe. So I'm scared, really apprehensive. Let's put
Speaker 1: it this one meeting. But I said, I gotta do it.
Speaker 1: I have to do it. I said, I'll take care
Speaker 1: of it. So I brought him in. I said, look,
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about shots selection. I said,
Speaker 1: let's take a look at these shots. I said, they're
Speaker 1: bullshit shots. You know you can't do that when you
Speaker 1: have Carmelo Lebron and it e rodes what we're what
Speaker 1: we're doing and so I don't know what I'm gonna get,
Speaker 1: but what I get was like a gift from God.
Speaker 1: He just said, you're right, I won't do that because
Speaker 1: what else to myself? I said, funk, that's that math,
Speaker 1: you know. But I said, all right, yes, but it was,
Speaker 1: you know, And so there weren't like too many of
Speaker 1: those moments. I didn't I didn't think, and but that
Speaker 1: was one of them. You're listening to Kobe Lebron and
Speaker 1: of a deem team. We'll be back after this. Like
Speaker 1: you said, it probably was, you know, in retrospect. I mean,
Speaker 1: coach k didn't want to make it sound like it
Speaker 1: was the whole shooting match, but it was right before
Speaker 1: the Olympics. And uh again back to the Dream team.
Speaker 1: You know, they had this legendary scrimmage in uh in Monico,
Speaker 1: in Monte Carlo, just because they had a really crappy
Speaker 1: practice right before they were gone to the Olympics. And
Speaker 1: that's kind of not the note that you want to set.
Speaker 1: So this happened presumably there's air clearing of some kind
Speaker 1: on they go to Beijing, and one of the first
Speaker 1: things everybody noticed over there, and it even took some
Speaker 1: people by surprise, and I think I think me too,
Speaker 1: little bit um and that was how big Kobe Bryant
Speaker 1: was in that particular era of of Asia, of of China.
Speaker 1: Did you get a sense of that back in l
Speaker 1: A during by that time? Was he that he was
Speaker 1: that kind of a global star? I'm not sure I
Speaker 1: got it at that moment, but I certainly was quickly
Speaker 1: made aware of it. And so one year, one of
Speaker 1: the All Star Games in l A. And and they've
Speaker 1: had so many recently, but I think it was the
Speaker 1: twenty eleven maybe maybe yeah, I'm I'm thinking twenty eleven
Speaker 1: All Star weekend in l A. And we're sitting in
Speaker 1: there in the workroom, which also is adjacent to the
Speaker 1: press conference room, and all of a sudden, they bring
Speaker 1: in Kobe, but only for Chinese media, so the American
Speaker 1: media was not allowed to go sit in there or
Speaker 1: ask any questions he's doing there. It's an appearance for
Speaker 1: Sprite and Jack. I'm trying to imagine how much money
Speaker 1: they had to pay him to take time the day
Speaker 1: of the All Star Game to come in and do
Speaker 1: this press conference. But they debut this new commercial that
Speaker 1: he'd done with this Chinese pop star and then they
Speaker 1: had him take questions from the Chinese media and packed
Speaker 1: ton of ton of reporters. They're all from China, all
Speaker 1: eager to hear what Kobe had to say, and in
Speaker 1: this pairing with this this pop superstar, and I thought, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is something I wasn't aware of prior to this,
Speaker 1: but it was obvious that there was so much interest
Speaker 1: in Kobe Bryant and that this was such a big deal,
Speaker 1: and that there was so much money for him to
Speaker 1: make over there. And you did see at this point,
Speaker 1: player after player going over to China and making these trips,
Speaker 1: usually sponsored by their shoe companies, and you did see
Speaker 1: the popularity. And I would hear stories from Kobe security
Speaker 1: people about just how crazy it was when he went
Speaker 1: over there, and we heard similar tales from the likes
Speaker 1: of Jerry Colangelo as we heard him in the preview
Speaker 1: for this episode, and also Sean Ford telling us about
Speaker 1: the insane popularity for Kobe Bryant the game's leading up
Speaker 1: to the Olympics. You know, two o'clock in the morning
Speaker 1: and ten thousand people are on the streets lined up
Speaker 1: waiting for yelling Kobe, Kobe, Kobe, I mean he was.
Speaker 1: He had invested a lot of time over in China
Speaker 1: in Japan and had built quite a business for himself
Speaker 1: and follow him, and he was larger than life for
Speaker 1: for those people. That was kind of a revelation for me,
Speaker 1: just how big he had become and how big the
Speaker 1: market was over there for NBA players. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but it was amazing, you know, the players when we
Speaker 1: would go and if we were gonna go somewhere where
Speaker 1: the crowd was gonna kind of like her, they would
Speaker 1: always make Kobe go first, right is then they would
Speaker 1: go crazy about him, and then the other guys could
Speaker 1: just like walk around and like not be noticed. But
Speaker 1: it was amazing to me everywhere he went, when we
Speaker 1: pulled in and out of the hotel and in the
Speaker 1: game and there were crowds there and stuff. They it
Speaker 1: was always they were yelling Kobe. They were always yelling Kobe.
Speaker 1: But now there was one name. I guess you could
Speaker 1: say as big, big in a different big in a
Speaker 1: different way. I suspect if you gave the Chinese people
Speaker 1: a choice between hanging out with Kobe for a while
Speaker 1: or hanging out with Yao Ming, I will say this,
Speaker 1: Jack that remember Tracy McGrady sold more jerseys in China
Speaker 1: than Yao Ming for a while, and they were both
Speaker 1: playing on the rockets. So I don't think it's too
Speaker 1: far fetched to think that Kobe Bryant could have been
Speaker 1: more popular than Yaoming in China. We're gonna go with that.
Speaker 1: But the first game, and I don't I don't know
Speaker 1: whether they arranged the draw in the Olympics to have,
Speaker 1: but you know, Game one, at any way, at any rate,
Speaker 1: is the United States versus China, and I you know,
Speaker 1: it's hard to imagine anything that big. You know, the
Speaker 1: home country. They built this, They built this Olympics up
Speaker 1: like nobody had ever done a more efficient job of
Speaker 1: constructing a whole Olympics than the Chinese people did. The
Speaker 1: first game is gonna be, uh, your guy, do you
Speaker 1: have anything comparable of a home not in the United States,
Speaker 1: but being somewhere overseas? You had mentioned you saw the
Speaker 1: World Cup in Germany. You know you're watching it there.
Speaker 1: Do you have any experience comparable to what this would be,
Speaker 1: not of being there, I remember just watching on TV
Speaker 1: and Jack, you might have been there for this opening ceremonies.
Speaker 1: But the U the archer that lit the flame in
Speaker 1: Barcelona for the opening ceremony. Oh, I was there, unbelievable.
Speaker 1: And I know it wasn't a hero, you know, it
Speaker 1: wasn't It wasn't like one of their great sports heroes.
Speaker 1: But uh, it just felt like there was that pride
Speaker 1: and and that was a little bit different too, because
Speaker 1: Barcelona you're dealing with like Catalonian pride in addition to
Speaker 1: Spanish pride, and those are two separate things, right, So
Speaker 1: I think it was the pride of the region, the
Speaker 1: pride of the country, and I felt that even through
Speaker 1: the television. Um, just in terms of a hero Jack.
Speaker 1: I went to a promotional event for Alberto Tomba, the
Speaker 1: great Italian skier and the swaggering self styled playboy. So
Speaker 1: they did a promotional event for a credit card company
Speaker 1: in Turin, Italy when the Olympics were there in two
Speaker 1: thousand and six, and it was a Valentine's Day promotion
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, women could win like a
Speaker 1: lunch with Alberto Tomba. Uh, and so you know he's
Speaker 1: he's one of their great Winter Olympic heroes. So I
Speaker 1: did get to see that. I did get to see
Speaker 1: Tombo's popularity in his own country, but I don't think
Speaker 1: it was comparable to Yea Megan China. So I will
Speaker 1: say that I think one of my top five moments
Speaker 1: as a sportswriter was in in Australia in two thousand
Speaker 1: at the Olympics. Fortunately I wasn't even working. I was
Speaker 1: at the track the night that Kathy Freeman took the
Speaker 1: starting line for the fours. And Cathy Freeman and an
Speaker 1: Aboriginal athlete who had been gone through I can't even
Speaker 1: imagine what, you know, what kind of prejudice. But by
Speaker 1: the year two thousand, everybody in Australia realized, okay, well,
Speaker 1: we gotta get together. She is an amazing athlete. She's
Speaker 1: our hero. She was the face of those Olympics. And
Speaker 1: that guy was sitting in the in the track stadium
Speaker 1: that night. I don't know how many were there, but
Speaker 1: every seat is taken always in the Olympics, and that
Speaker 1: gun went off. I never heard anything like it. You
Speaker 1: I was sitting next to somebody from Sports Illustrated. We
Speaker 1: couldn't we were shouting and we couldn't hear each other.
Speaker 1: We were, you know, twelve inches apart. And she went
Speaker 1: around and on and I just uh, I just never
Speaker 1: never forgot that, you know, and I guess this, you know,
Speaker 1: this moment for Yao was something like it. So, uh
Speaker 1: set the seat a little bit. What's happening? Here comes
Speaker 1: Yallo out for the opening tip. Yeah, it felt more ceremonial, Jack,
Speaker 1: maybe than Cathy Freeman winning the gold medal. Remember y'all
Speaker 1: had carried the the Chinese flag into the stadium and
Speaker 1: the opening ceremonies, and it really was. He was the
Speaker 1: face of the Chinese delegation, that this humongous Chinese sporting
Speaker 1: delegation as the host country, and uh, here he is.
Speaker 1: They had to have drawn his play up for him, Jack, right,
Speaker 1: even though it's not exactly his sweet spot. Uh yeah.
Speaker 1: Ming isn't known as a long distance shooter. But here
Speaker 1: they are the first game and from the first play
Speaker 1: China against the ball, and they set up a screening
Speaker 1: roll for yell Ming. Maybe they'd seen the Skuyting report
Speaker 1: that Greece game where Greets killed him on the screen
Speaker 1: and roll in the World Championships. So they run like
Speaker 1: a maybe more of a pick and pop, and yeah,
Speaker 1: Ming gets a three pointer straight away and drains it
Speaker 1: and the place goes crazy and yeah, does this gigantic
Speaker 1: fish pump? And it was a pretty cool moment. Chris
Speaker 1: Boss described it to us. It was a surreal feeling
Speaker 1: kind of pulling up to the stadium seeing I mean,
Speaker 1: it was it's the Olympics, right, Yeah, you see the
Speaker 1: birds nests and then the aquatic center, and you see
Speaker 1: all the people in the streets and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: We had already taken part in the ceremony and now
Speaker 1: it's time to get down to business. But I think
Speaker 1: that was I mean, it was a huge game for
Speaker 1: everybody because you know, um, we had all been to
Speaker 1: China a couple of years before, we had seen the growth.
Speaker 1: So like I said before, this was their moment to
Speaker 1: really kind of just established themselves as a basketball power
Speaker 1: in the world. We knew, I mean, once we got
Speaker 1: the schedule, we knew, Okay, all right, this is gonna
Speaker 1: be crazy China basketball. This is their moment for the
Speaker 1: world to showcase to the world. Um, they had a
Speaker 1: pretty good team as well. Um, and yeah, yeah, it
Speaker 1: comes out and hits the first the first shot and
Speaker 1: it's the three, and I mean it was deafeningly loud.
Speaker 1: I remember asking Chris during our interview with him, he
Speaker 1: was on the you know, he didn't start. Dwight Howard
Speaker 1: started at center, and I said, Chris, were you screaming
Speaker 1: Dwight get out on him. You gotta get out on him,
Speaker 1: you know. But that's not what they were thinking for
Speaker 1: the first play the game, and it was it was beautiful,
Speaker 1: and I wondered, probably the States didn't think this dre
Speaker 1: In the middle of the game, I wondered, Okay, that's great,
Speaker 1: let's get at the hell over with and uh and
Speaker 1: go on. But it wasn't. After y'all hit that shot.
Speaker 1: I think it inspired China a little bit. They played
Speaker 1: a good game, so it wasn't all that easy of
Speaker 1: a game for him, Jay, It wasn't. It took a
Speaker 1: while for them to pull away. But as was the case,
Speaker 1: inevitably and just about every game they played over there,
Speaker 1: they would have this run. Uh. I like to call
Speaker 1: it the can opener, when they would just have this
Speaker 1: moment and it would just you know, pry the lid
Speaker 1: off the game and then forget it. In this game,
Speaker 1: the can open a moment was uh, uh box gets
Speaker 1: a rebound those in the haad the kid and uh
Speaker 1: he throws along pass the Dwayne Wade who throws this
Speaker 1: incredible alley you to Lebron, and Lebron throws it down
Speaker 1: one handed, and that makes it for two and and
Speaker 1: and they're off and here they go, uh and and
Speaker 1: it was just a breathtaking display of the athleticism of
Speaker 1: Lebron and the firepower of Team USA. And so you
Speaker 1: think that all of this going on, all this excitement
Speaker 1: China hosting the Olympics, this redeemed team, and the incredible
Speaker 1: athleticism of the American players, But there was one person
Speaker 1: in the American delegation in the stad ends who wasn't
Speaker 1: all that impressed. Is the guyfather Jerry Colangelo told us
Speaker 1: about the whole experience of playing China in the first game.
Speaker 1: The most watched televised game in the history of televised
Speaker 1: basketball was that game. And obviously being in China playing them, um,
Speaker 1: that's the reason for all of that. But it was
Speaker 1: you know, a funny story is President Bush and his
Speaker 1: father and the whole Bush clan wanted me to sit
Speaker 1: with them. And usually during the game, I'm either playing
Speaker 1: or coaching, and I'm not a very good host, you know,
Speaker 1: in terms of small talk during the game because I'm
Speaker 1: into the game, but I agreed to do that when
Speaker 1: the President requested you do it. So I'm getting to
Speaker 1: my seat with them and the President of China, the
Speaker 1: their top chelon of people who are right there. We're
Speaker 1: all together. But as I'm going to my seat, I
Speaker 1: just kind of noticed somebody sleeping in the midst of
Speaker 1: all of this, and it was Kissinger. Kissinger was sound
Speaker 1: asleep during everything that was going on. In all fairness,
Speaker 1: Jay football was really Kissinger's game. He constantly dropped soccer
Speaker 1: metaphors into his negotiating, and he was supposedly the person
Speaker 1: most responsible for getting uh Pail to play over here
Speaker 1: in the North American Soccer League. So he was probably
Speaker 1: waiting for, you know, Jay Kid to set up Lebron
Speaker 1: with a corner kick or something like that for ahead
Speaker 1: or otherwise. He probably wasn't interested. But the games went
Speaker 1: on and rarely was the United States asleep during that
Speaker 1: rest of the Olympics, although one member of the American
Speaker 1: contingent was. So we have another dozing story j A
Speaker 1: for episode nine, as well as accounts of the games
Speaker 1: the way the team really came together. And here's Chris
Speaker 1: Bosh to close us out. I mean, you know, as
Speaker 1: close you man. I mean, you see how talented guys were,
Speaker 1: And I always tell people that was some of the
Speaker 1: best basketball I've ever seen. I remember just being happy
Speaker 1: of having that luxury just to kind of playoff guys,
Speaker 1: just to see how really how talented guys are, what
Speaker 1: their work ethic is and all these things, and just
Speaker 1: to be able to take part in that and have
Speaker 1: a good summer roader. I'm Jack McCallum. That's all for
Speaker 1: episode eight, and I'm J Donne. Will be back with
Speaker 1: more in episode nine. The Dream Team Tapes Season two,
Speaker 1: Kobe Lebron and the Redeem Team is a production of
Speaker 1: Diversion Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This season
Speaker 1: is written and hosted by me, Jack McCallum and j A. Dande.
Speaker 1: Executive producer Scott Waxman and Mark Francis for Diversion podcast
Speaker 1: and Shawn's High Tone for I Heart Radio. Our editorial
Speaker 1: director is John Tuttle, Supervising producer Brian Murphy, Legal producer
Speaker 1: Freddie Overstegen editing, mixing and sound designed by Mark frances Verna.
Speaker 1: Fields is our technical producer and our Director of Marketing
Speaker 1: and business Development is Jacob Bronstein. Diversion Podcasts