WEBVTT - Micron Gives Strong Forecast in Sign That Demand Is Rebounding 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:05.720 This is Bloomberg business Week Inside from the reporters and 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.440 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.680 global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:18.640 Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:24.079 Those do the ones in today, Those do the world 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:25.959 and be lost on away because. 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:29.040 It joins bring back on the memories and the memories, 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:33.040 Bring back Memories, Bring back You is a terminate of 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:33.839 a member. 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:36.960 Well, It's Bloomberg Business Week, Tim Stenebeck and Bailey Lipswolt's 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.479 live in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers Studio. Shares of Micron 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:44.040 Technologies up by wow, about three point six percent as 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:46.800 we speak right now. The shares of rallied more than 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:50.159 sixty percent so far this year. Worth repeating some of 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:52.959 the news. The company maintained its quarterly diven end at 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:55.600 eleven and a half cents per share. The company is 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:59.480 seeing second quarter earnings per share from thirty five cents 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:03.360 to twenty one sense. The consensus was sixty two cents 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:07.000 per share. Let's get an instant reaction from Dan Morgan. 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:11.000 He joins us this afternoon on Skype. Dan good to 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:13.440 have you back with us. He's senior portfolio manager of 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:15.840 course at Sunova's trust company. Love it when you join 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:20.320 us whenever we have the chip company's report, Micron Technology, 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.040 you've had five minutes to look at the company's results 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.040 as shares higher in the after hours before that call 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:26.680 takes place. 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:30.080 What are your immediate reactions. 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:32.679 Well, Tim, I think overall, obviously it has to be 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:35.240 construed as a very strong beat. I mean, the numbers 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:37.920 were kind of moving around on the first quarter. We 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:40.280 know they originally came in on sales at four point 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:44.000 four billion with a plus or minus two hundred million. 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:46.959 Then they raised their guidance to about four point seven 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:49.640 and then they beat that number at four point seven 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:51.760 to three billion. That was up sixteen percent on the 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:55.880 first quarter. They also guided, as you probably mentioned, going 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:58.760 into the second quarter five point one to five point 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:01.600 five billion in revenues. Street was looking for four point 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:03.800 nine to nine. And then on the bottom line, it 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:06.520 was a beat across the board in terms of they 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:08.799 didn't lose as much money as everybody expected. Right in 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:11.440 the first quarter they only lost ninety five cents, and 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:13.320 then going in the second quarter, they're looking for a 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.040 range of a loss of twenty one to thirty five. 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:18.360 The street was looking for a loss of sixty two. So, 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:21.880 you know, just a preliminary look at these numbers, Tim 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:25.200 and Bailey, they look very very strong, and it reiterated 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:29.240 to give further evidence that the rebound that began in 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:33.200 the really the February of twenty twenty three in the 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:37.040 chip industry is definitely gaining momentum. We're starting to see 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:38.040 that in the memory space. 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:40.120 And with that momentum, what's going to be key in 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:42.959 twenty twenty four just looking at the results AI obviously 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:45.320 and the spending around that as it relates to data 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:48.400 centers is helping, is that what's going to carry Micron 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:52.799 in some of those chip making peers, I mean, AI. 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.200 Is important for them, probably not going to see that 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:58.160 come to fruition until sometime in the second half of 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:02.600 next year. They have two products that they currently are 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:05.320 working on. One is called double Data Rate DDR. The 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:08.519 other one is called high Bandwidth Memory. Those are chips 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:12.680 that go into some of these high end AI data 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.280 servers that you would see let's say with an Nvidia 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:17.320 chip going in there, that would be the memory that 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:22.960 got would go in to that server. With the Nvidia products, 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:25.720 so that's definitely a big demand cycle for them. The 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:27.840 other thing you know we're seeing, guys, is we're seeing 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:32.680 a rebound in PCs and we're seeing a rebound in 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:35.480 regards to smartphones, which is about thirty one percent of 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:38.720 the total chip market. So those were two areas that 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.600 were really hurting. We had auto and industrial that were 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.920 previously strong, but we're seeing a nice bounce back after 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.440 we had that big blip on the upside after COVID. 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:51.920 Hey I'm looking at FAGO on the Bloomberg terminal and 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:57.600 it's got a great breakdown of where Micron's revenue actually 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:02.480 comes from. So in the physical twenty three, about half 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:06.000 came from the US, half internationally, and then when you 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:08.800 break down dan international, this is the point Scarlett was making. 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:12.320 You had seventeen point four percent of revenue coming from 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:16.640 Taiwan and you had fourteen percent of that revenue or 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:19.719 fourteen percent of the forty nine percent of revenue international 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:23.120 revenue coming from mainland China excluding Hong Kong. What do 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:29.159 investors need to understand when it comes to the China 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:30.320 story and Micron. 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:34.600 We know what's interesting is that Micron doesn't have a 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:37.520 huge amount of exposure to China. I know that everyone's 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:40.159 talking about the restrictions and that was a seven issue. 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:43.720 That's been seventeen and a half percent. Is it nothing? Well, 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:46.239 I know, but compared to fourteen percent, I should say. 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:49.440 Yeah, Qualcom has almost sixty percent. That's what I meant 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:52.800 when we compare with the shift companies. But yeah, I 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:55.120 mean that's going to be the real uh, you know, 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.960 gorilla in the room as we get into this conference 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:00.840 call coming up with the man as a team, I'm 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:02.480 sure the analysts are going to really kind of want 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.400 to zero in on, you know, how much of impact 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:07.440 is that going to have in their ability to kind 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:10.400 of continue to replicate some of the success they had 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:13.960 in this first quarter in terms of recovery. And you know, 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:17.040 you're right. I mean, you take out a certain chunk 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:20.360 of that revenue that's huge, and that's part of that 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.560 recovery story. I guess what I was trying to relate 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:25.560 it to is when you look at Micron compared to 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:30.400 a lot of the other big chip makers, especially Qualcomm, 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:35.000 they have a pretty low exposure of China, but you're right, 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.640 it's still a pretty high amount of their business. When 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:40.040 you're looking at you know, fifteen percent plus. 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.440 So is it should should investors be worried about regulatory 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:45.240 risk about you know, in the US cracking down on 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:46.280 those sales. 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:50.159 Well, I mean it seems like there's regulatory risk now 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:54.320 guys in all of these chip companies, right and even Apple, 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:58.880 So that's always a risk that's out there. So far, 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:02.320 it hasn't really a dramatic impact, Like, for example, Nvidia 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:05.400 has a couple of their chips that have been banned 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:07.160 and they've been trying to work around it with some 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:12.960 chips that meet the specifications. In terms of these concerns 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:15.520 that China has raised, they're able to sell in those spaces. 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:19.880 So far, I haven't seen dramatic impacts in terms of, 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.440 you know, bringing down sales and earning vestments because of 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.360 the China exposure with the chip players. But it is 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.160 definitely something that could become a problem down the road, 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:32.120 and it could be something that would kind of throw, 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:34.599 you know, a stick in the spoke of the wheel 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:36.560 here of this great recovery that we're getting in the 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:37.159 chip space. 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:39.560 And Dan, I'm just looking at the release and some 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:42.719 of the comments from management basically talking about business fundamentals 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:46.880 improving throughout twenty twenty four, but already talking about record 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:49.520 industry tam for twenty twenty five. Is that an all 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:52.279 a concern or surprised to hear and see companies already 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:54.600 looking to twenty five when we haven't even flipped the 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:55.560 calendar to twenty four. 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.640 Well, I think everyone's looking forward to this recovery coming 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:03.680 to fruition. And you know, as you start to move 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:05.920 out of the hole that we had in the probably 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:08.960 about the first quarter of twenty three. You know, how 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:12.120 long is the typical chip cycle. Typically they don't last 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:14.920 that long. So I think you're seeing already people kind 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.120 of building in that will continue to see the recovery 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:21.560 through this year as it continues to work into some 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:25.560 of these other spaces I mentioned before, like industrial and auto, 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:28.000 And then the question is when does this peak out 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:30.720 and we start to go the other way, and you know, 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.160 how can we forecast that and how much carry through 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:37.320 will we have and will China be a catalyst that 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:41.280 leads up to this this turn again in the cycle. 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.760 So again everyone kind of looking ahead, right, Everybody trades 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:47.160 these stocks on what's going to happen six months to 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:48.720 twelve months down the road. 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:50.400 As if we could know what's going to happen six 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:52.280 to twelve months down the road, right, I guess. 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:54.320 That's what Tim knows. He's not going to tell us 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:54.760 what's that? 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:56.640 I said, Tim knows, but. 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:58.080 He's just yeah, exactly, that's what. 0:07:58.360 --> 0:07:59.840 That's why I'm doing this because I can see the 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.960 BacT like, hey, hey, Dan, you know to that end 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:08.320 talking about the AI impact here. It's something that the 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:11.160 company CEO calls out quite a bit in the press 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:14.720 release this afternoon, and I'm wondering where you think we 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:18.119 are in terms of value capture from the AI rush, 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:20.840 specifically for Micron, Like how much more room is there 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:22.000 to run when it comes to AI. 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:25.880 I think that's a great opportunity for them going forward. 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.160 I mean, there's been a lot of studies out that 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:30.520 have kind of thrown some numbers around. For example, in 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:34.960 twenty three they expect total d RAM revenues from AI 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:38.720 to be about sixteen percent, and then by twenty twenty 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:41.640 seven to expand to fifty six percent, and then along 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:44.800 the way, obviously you're creeping up in terms of overall 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:48.640 revenues being generated from AI. But to me, that's probably 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.800 the biggest opportunity I talked about earlier in the conversation 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:54.320 about how these chips are paired up with a lot 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:59.240 of these Nvidia AI chips, and you know, Nvidia continues 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.000 to do extremely well. AMD's got some new AI products 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:04.400 coming out, So I think that's going to be the 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:07.640 greatest opportunity going forward, just because you guys know that 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:12.400 the memory market is extremely cyclical. It's a very commoditized industry. 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.320 They have to compete against Samsung and at Mail and 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:17.719 all these other players in the space, so it's it's 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:20.800 a tough, tough sled. So how do you carve out 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:23.560 an opportunity for growth for yourself, and that is to 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:26.880 align yourself with some of these AI chip makers and 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:31.840 continue to garner a larger share of that overall AI 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:33.960 memory space. And it's obviously going to be a huge 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:39.080 growth component within memory, which is huge, right, takes away 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.640 some of the cyclicality that we typically have in PCs 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.400 and servers and smartphones and the other things that are 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:48.000 out there that obviously create this this up and down 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:49.200 cycle in memory. 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:51.520 Yeah, and we only have about thirty seconds left, but 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:53.959 looking at the charts in Nvidia, more than two hundred percent, 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:57.360 AMD one to ten. Broadcom had doubled so far here 0:09:57.400 --> 0:09:59.600 today before pulling back a bit. What stocks do you 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:01.320 like with in the semispace. 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:04.040 Well, you mentioned a lot of them. I mean, obviously 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:07.120 in Vidio is a holding of ours. Qualcomm they have 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:09.679 the A one hundred chip that should go into smartphones. 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:13.160 We like Broadcom. They reported a couple of weeks ago 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:15.920 they had a pretty good report. They mentioned some of 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.800 the strengths of getting in their Jericho three, which is 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:22.880 their AI offering in terms of growth. So those would 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:24.840 be some of the names you know that We've been 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:28.240 kind of focusing on TIS in there too, but they've 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:31.960 been a little bit underwater with the auto industrial space 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:34.440 being so weak. But though would be some top names 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:37.880 that you just mentioned that we're currently on our buy list. 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:40.200 Dan, We love it when you join us. 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.040 Usually it's on days when chip companies report earnings, and 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:44.400 that's been quite a bit recently. 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:45.120 Really appreciate it. 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:48.120 Dan Morgan, senior portfolio manager at so Novus Trust Company, 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:49.760 joining us on the phone from Atlanta. 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:51.000 This is Bloomberg Business Week. 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:57.000 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:10:57.040 --> 0:11:00.960 live weekday afternoons from three to six Easterns on Bloomberg 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:04.480 dot Com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:06.440 or watch us Live on YouTube. 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:08.800 Well, you saw the alercs last night. 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:11.960 Donald Trump ineligible to serve as US president because of 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.480 his actions inciting the January sixth, twenty twenty one attack 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:19.760 on the US Capitol. That's Colorada's highest court's finding. This 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:23.120 is an unprecedented ruling that's headed for the US Supreme Court, 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:23.600 no doubt. 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:24.600 Here's what happened. 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:27.600 Colorada Supreme Court issued this ruling late Tuesday, which barred 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:31.120 Trump from the states March fifth primary ballot, but stayed 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:33.880 the decision to allow the former president to appeal, which 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:36.240 his campaign said he plans to do. He has until 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:38.880 January fourth, By the way, under the state's court ruling. 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.960 It's a legal story, but it's also a political story 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:46.760 with wide ranging implications for both politics and legal stuff. 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:49.240 For the legal side, we turned to June Grosso. She's 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:51.960 Bloomberg News, a legal analyst and host of Bloomberg Law 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:55.160 weeknights at ten pm Wall Street Time on Bloomberg Radio. 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:56.320 To find out all the legal stuff. 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:58.439 You just listened to June for the political side, we 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:01.280 turned to Jody Schneider, political news director at Bloomberg Television 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:05.040 and Radio. She joins us from our Washington, DC bureau. Jody, 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:06.680 I want to start with you to get the politics 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:09.160 side of this. What did we you know, what's the 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.680 sort of day two here with the other Republicans and 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:14.960 with what Trump is saying about this ruling. 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:21.360 Yeah, it's not a terrible surprise from the former president 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:25.480 is basically saying that this is something that has been 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:28.040 concocted to try to keep him out of the race 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:32.559 and blames Democrats. What's more interesting to me is that 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.079 the other candidates in the race, people who are running 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:40.199 against him for the Republican nomination, they're singing that same tune, 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.680 and they're saying they would rather win at the ballot 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:48.800 box than via the courts. So the Republicans, including Republicans 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:52.040 in the House, have really been standing with Trump in this. 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:54.880 And Jody, I'm just looking through Bloomberg News Morning Console 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:57.200 poll from last week had Trump leading Biden by five 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.199 percentage points among registered voters and had to head match 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:04.640 across seven swing states. Colorado had voted for Hillary Clinton 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:06.840 and Joe Biden the last two elections. But when you 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.199 look at this decision, what can it mean for the 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:11.480 presidential election given those polls. 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:16.800 Well, the polls are it's still early, and a lot 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:20.880 of people are focused on the polls about the primaries. 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:25.880 The general is still eleven months away. So there's two 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:30.040 ways to look at this. If Trump wins, and he 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:34.400 may well at the Supreme Court, he nominated and got 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.439 several of those people on the Supreme Court who are 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:44.880 now serving, that he will get some credence with Republican voters. 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.719 But where he really needs to win is in those 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:51.800 seven swing states, and it will be hard for him 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:56.280 to win with just the Republican base. And how does 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:58.760 this look to some of those independent voters. 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.559 Grosso come on in here, legal analyst for Bloomberg and 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:04.679 he's host to Bloomberg Law weeknights at ten pm Wall 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.760 Street Time on Bloomberg Radio. What did the Colorado Supreme 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:08.360 Court decide? 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:08.600 Here? 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.360 So, the Colorado Supreme Court decided that and this has 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:16.440 been sort of a legal debate that was started by 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:21.120 some conservative scholars actually whether or not under Section three 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:24.760 of the Fourteenth Amendment, which was passed around after the 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:29.800 Confederacy to prevent Confederates from getting into taking office. Whether 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:33.840 the language in it, there's a couple of problems, always 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.880 a couple of problems. First of all, it doesn't talk 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:40.120 about what an insurrection is. It doesn't say what it 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:43.800 means to engage in an insurrection, so that's a question 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:47.040 that's open. And also what it says the language is 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:50.680 that officers of the United States who'd take an oath 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:54.680 to support the constitution. It mentioned some officers. It doesn't 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:58.240 mention the president, so that's another question. Does it apply 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:00.680 to the president. So in this case, the lower court 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:05.000 found that, yes, there was an insurrection, Yes Donald Trump 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:08.920 incided that insurrection, but found that Donald Trump was not 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:12.800 that the presidency was not one of the offices that 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:15.920 you could that take place, or that one of the 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:20.440 officers that section three of the Fourteenth Amendment applies to. 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:24.479 The Colorado Supreme Court said, yes, there was an insurrection, 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:29.280 Yes Donald Trump incited it. But the Fourteenth Amendment, Section 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.960 three does apply to presidents, and if you look at 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:35.160 the history, it makes sense that it would apply to presidents. 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:37.920 Because someone said to me, well, you know, Jefferson Davis, 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:40.280 does that mean that he could have run for president? 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.120 Because the Fourteenth Amendment didn't apply to him, so it 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:44.920 sort of makes sense historically. 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:48.640 So what's the legal route that President Trump could take 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:50.960 now in order to get back on the ballot. 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.440 The Supreme Court is the only route. I mean, this 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:55.800 can't appeal. 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:57.600 The Colorado Supreme Court decision. Well, he could appeal it 0:15:57.680 --> 0:15:58.640 the colorad of Supreme Court. 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:01.000 No, that's that's the high court in Colorado. 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:02.800 So the next it's not like New York where we 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.080 have the Supreme Court is the middle court. 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:09.040 So he has to go to the Supreme Court. 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:12.440 And you know, the justices here on the Colorado Supreme 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.640 Court knew what was going to happen because they gave 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:18.440 him enough time to appeal to the Supreme Court. And 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:21.280 also the language in this more than two hundred page 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:25.240 opinion was full of terms about how they know how 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:29.120 significant this is. They know it's unprecedented, and you know 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:31.360 it's going to be in the Supreme Court's hands whether 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:33.880 or not to take the case, which most people I've 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:37.520 spoken to say, there's really almost no choice. The Supreme 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:40.640 Court has to take the case because you know otherwise 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:42.920 what will happen in different states across the country are 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.720 going to have some states like Minnesota. The Supreme Court 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:49.960 there said, no, this doesn't apply any any party member. 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:52.680 Any party can put whoever they want on the primary ballot. 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:54.760 So what's going to happen with the primary is what's 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:59.680 going to happen with the election itself. So I think 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:02.600 that all bets are the Screenport will take the case. 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:06.720 And Jody, you mentioned this about the GOP and candidates 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:09.680 that Trump is running against standing with him. Is there 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:11.919 a route that this would play into his hands in 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:12.359 any way? 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.720 Well, I think certainly. The former president is very good 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:21.000 at taking things that happen outside the political arena, for 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:24.440 instance in the courts and with his indictments and charges, 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:27.840 and turning it into part of his narrative. And the 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:32.000 narrative is the Democrats are afraid of him, and they 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:36.320 don't want him to be the candidate, and some in 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:38.080 his own party don't want it to be the candidate 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:40.880 because he could win and they know that that is 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:44.199 and he will certainly make this case or try to 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:49.239 make this case with this as well, again, because this 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:52.639 is the narrative that they are against me, they're victimizing me, 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.600 they are using the judicial system where they control it 0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:59.920 to try to get at me, and in this case, 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:04.200 he will probably you know, he has working with him 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:06.560 in terms of trying to make that argument. The fact 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:09.639 that all of the members of the Colorado Supreme Court 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:15.639 were appointed by democratic governors, So he will make it 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:19.040 political even if it is not entirely political. He will 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:24.120 not make it about January sixth entirely. And that is something, interestingly, 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.160 we haven't heard a lot from and those supporting him 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:30.200 on this, the Republicans who were supporting him saying this 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:34.760 is about not using the courts to decide who gets 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:36.919 on the ballot. They haven't said a whole lot about 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:38.720 the insurrectionist claims. 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.400 And just to follow following up on that point, yes, 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:48.160 he will say that it's all political, and yes, the 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:51.120 justices were all democratic appointed, but it was a four 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:54.359 to three decision. So three of those justices, including the 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:59.640 chief Justice of the Colorado Supreme Court, voted against using 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:00.760 the fourteenth Amendment. 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:03.960 And jine, we only have about forty seconds here, stakehourts 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:06.159 correct me if I'm wrong. Minnesota and Michigan ruled against 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.560 similar lawsuits. What could this mean for other lawsuits from 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:12.520 different states wanting to remove Trump from the ballot? 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:15.960 So they would each go their own way, but the 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:19.919 Supreme Court will decide whether the Fourteenth Amendment applies. But 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:22.600 this is under Colorado law, So that's sort of a 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.160 question of law that I cannot answer in forty seconds. 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:28.480 All right, Well, we appreciate you trying. Thank you so much. 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:31.360 A big thank you to June Grasso. She is Bloomberg 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:33.800 News Legal analyst and host of Bloomberg Law weeknights at 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:36.400 ten pm Wall Street Time on Bloomberg Radio. And also 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:38.919 huge thank you to Jody Schneider, Political News director at 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:41.920 Bloomberg Television and Radio. She's now based in our Washington, 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.320 DC bureau, where she joined us. From this afternoon. 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:49.040 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast. Catch us 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:53.080 live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.560 the Bloomberg Business App, and YouTube. You can also listen 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:59.760 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:04.840 Jo Say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty and tim. 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:08.080 As worries around the pandemic faded, consumers took to the skies, 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:11.320 with airline traffic more than doubling its COVID era bottom 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:15.240 as the travel industry for business storms back while the 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:18.479 Jump and travel to see Taylor Swift or Beyonce dominated headlines. 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:19.960 I don't know if you made a trip out we 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:22.520 see some of those cities, but those cities benefited vastly 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:26.239 from those concerts. Calendar for conferences, though, and conventions are 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:28.920 now packed. Next month we have cees in Las Vegas, 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:32.480 JP Morgan Healthcare Conference at San Francisco. Flick ahead to March, 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:36.080 you have south By Southwest taking over Austin. As meetings 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:38.960 and exhibitions bring in millions for host cities, better diversity 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:42.000 and equality at these events is something that's critical for them. 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:44.959 That's why we're talking with Jason Dunn. He's the CEO 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:48.639 at the AT National Coalition for Black National Coalition of 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:53.119 Black Meeting Professionals. Joining us now on zoom from Cincinnati. Jason, 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:55.840 your organization is an advocacy group that promotes the positive 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:59.440