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Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to the Bucks Exton Show. We have Frank
Speaker 2: Pavone with us now. He is the founder of Priests
Speaker 2: for Life, which do incredibly important work defending unborn or
Speaker 2: preborn babies. Frank, I met you a new us father, Pavone,
Speaker 2: So I wanted to start with this because now you
Speaker 2: are Frank. I guess you were always Frank. But we
Speaker 2: leave off the Roman collar and tell everybody what happened.
Speaker 2: I've never, honestly, I've never even heard of this happening before.
Speaker 1: Well, Buck, you know, usually it happens when priests do
Speaker 1: something very very wrong. But yeah, I've served as a
Speaker 1: Catholic priest for thirty five years, and for thirty of
Speaker 1: those years, the last thirty years, I've been leading this
Speaker 1: Priest for Life ministry full time work to work to
Speaker 1: end abortion. And in doing that, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: we've got to be real about how we end abortion.
Speaker 1: That includes getting involved in the political realm, and so
Speaker 1: I've been very outspoken against the Democrat Party. Some church
Speaker 1: leaders are really in tight with the Democrats, and they
Speaker 1: just didn't want a priest saying the kind of things
Speaker 1: I've been saying over the years. They've actually been trying
Speaker 1: to limit my work for the last twenty years, and
Speaker 1: it's been one excuse after another. You know, you try
Speaker 1: to you try to follow what they're asking you to do,
Speaker 1: and then they're always changing the goalposts. Basically. Then in
Speaker 1: the end of it, at the end of last year,
Speaker 1: some of these church leaders that oppose our were convinced
Speaker 1: Poke Francis. They actually dismissed me from the priesthood, and
Speaker 1: many even cardinals within the church are like outrage at this.
Speaker 1: They're saying, you know, we do this for priests that
Speaker 1: have committed terrible crimes, not for somebody who you know,
Speaker 1: we don't like his message, and nothing in the message
Speaker 1: was contrary to Catholic faith. They just don't like the politics.
Speaker 2: But that's what I was gonna say, is that's what
Speaker 2: I've heard of priests being kicked out for terrible things.
Speaker 2: You said. I've never heard of a priest who was
Speaker 2: was was anything you know, kicked out for effectively politics,
Speaker 2: like partisan politics, was anything that you were espousing publicly
Speaker 2: against church doctrine.
Speaker 1: No, no, not at all. In fact, I repeatedly have
Speaker 1: told them over all these years, if I've said a
Speaker 1: single thing that's contrary to Church teaching, let me know
Speaker 1: and I'll correct it. You know, I'm a believing Catholic.
Speaker 1: I adhere to everything that the Church teaches, and so
Speaker 1: I want to be corrected if I go wrong, you know,
Speaker 1: in terms of that. But no, they haven't been able to.
Speaker 1: You know, they tried one thing after another day. They
Speaker 1: really never complained that it was that it was doctrinally erroneous,
Speaker 1: but you know, they used the usual lines of attack. Oh,
Speaker 1: we got to investigate your finance as well, whether it
Speaker 1: was the audits that we get every year from independent
Speaker 1: auditors or even the Vatican who took a look at
Speaker 1: our finances. They all said everything was in order. So
Speaker 1: they couldn't find anything along those lines. So then they
Speaker 1: kept saying, oh, you're not being obedient, you know, to
Speaker 1: your bishop, and well, you know I have been. And
Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is that, you know, for
Speaker 1: the longest time the bishop I was under said that
Speaker 1: I didn't have any assignment. Now I had my full
Speaker 1: time role with priests for life, like I still do.
Speaker 1: So I had work that I was doing, but he said, oh,
Speaker 1: you don't have an assignment. So you can't have it
Speaker 1: both ways. You can't say, well, you didn't obey your bishop.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, the bishop is not telling you anything
Speaker 1: that you need to do. So the whole thing is ridiculous.
Speaker 1: But the good news is I'm able to continue this
Speaker 1: pro life work and we're making great progress.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you about the pro life work
Speaker 2: and the importance of that momentarily. I just, again, Frank,
Speaker 2: I just need to understand what is it that you
Speaker 2: were doing that other or saying, I should say, you
Speaker 2: didn't do anything. What is it that you were saying
Speaker 2: that upset other priests so much?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: What were the issues that were making them angry?
Speaker 1: Well, one of the things, for example, was President Trump's campaign,
Speaker 1: both in twenty sixteen and twenty twenty invited me to
Speaker 1: be on the Advisory Board for Catholic Issues and then
Speaker 1: the second Advisory Board for Pro life Issues. And I
Speaker 1: gladly said yes. They didn't like that, they didn't like
Speaker 1: me being publicly identified with the Trump campaign. And what
Speaker 1: I explained to them, and you know how these things work,
Speaker 1: I said, listen, I'm a priest on an advisory campaign.
Speaker 1: We're doing prayer calls for election volunteers across the country.
Speaker 1: They get on the phone and they asked me to
Speaker 1: lead them in the rosary. The feast of the Easter
Speaker 1: comes along, and they asked me to gig. We're going
Speaker 1: to get the election volunteers on the phone while Easter
Speaker 1: draws near, draw give us some reflections about Easter and
Speaker 1: that you know how that inspires our work to make
Speaker 1: a better nation. And I would do that. And I said,
Speaker 1: I'm doing priestly thing, I'm leading prayer. What in the
Speaker 1: world is the problem? And the problem really, of course,
Speaker 1: is that they have again it emphasized, this is just
Speaker 1: a handful. This is a minority of church leaders that
Speaker 1: have had a problem with with my work. But that
Speaker 1: was it. They said, oh no, no, you can't be
Speaker 1: associated with the Trump campaign. So, you know, I said
Speaker 1: to the campaign, hey, listen, I you know I want
Speaker 1: to I'm going to continue helping the campaign. I also
Speaker 1: want to be a faithful priest. I can't have an
Speaker 1: official title on this board. And so they were very
Speaker 1: very cooperative, of course, very very gracious and understanding about it.
Speaker 1: And then the Vatican was very very happy, you know
Speaker 1: that I no longer had an official role with the campaign,
Speaker 1: But then they were mad at me again a few
Speaker 1: months later. Why because I continued to speak out in
Speaker 1: favor of President Trump and his policies. So it's like
Speaker 1: I said to them, a why can't you be honest
Speaker 1: from the beginning. It's not about having an official title
Speaker 1: or anything about candid law. You don't like the politics.
Speaker 1: And that's the most sense that I can make out
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 2: Is that I'm going to need you explain something to me.
Speaker 2: And now, since you know you're not in the priest
Speaker 2: that anymore, maybe there's more freedom to just speak on
Speaker 2: the see about this. But I really, you know, I
Speaker 2: was I was rom a baptized Roman Catholic, went to
Speaker 2: Jesuit High school, you know, grew up going to church
Speaker 2: every Sunday until college. I'm not gonna lie I'm not
Speaker 2: the best Catholic as an adult, meaning you know, I
Speaker 2: haven't been at practicing the faith the way I should.
Speaker 2: But put that aside for a second, doesn't matter for
Speaker 2: my question, just just you know, being honest with everybody
Speaker 2: out there. How is it that there seems to be
Speaker 2: an allegiance between the Catholic hierarchy politically and the ideology
Speaker 2: of the Democrat party, which is the party of uh
Speaker 2: celebrating abortion for all nine months of a pregnancy. UH,
Speaker 2: the party of you know, transgender surgery not just for
Speaker 2: adults but for children. The party that is even more
Speaker 2: you know, strongly attached to UH, gay marriage and the
Speaker 2: l g B, t q I A plus issues of
Speaker 2: the day. How is the Catholic Church aligned with all
Speaker 2: of that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that is really the big question because the
Speaker 1: party the way it is now certainly is not the
Speaker 1: party that our grandparents knew, and that that maybe some
Speaker 1: of these bishops knew when they were young or and
Speaker 1: their family said, oh, we're Democrats. But but there's also
Speaker 1: a lot of financial connection. You know, a lot of
Speaker 1: these Democrat politicians, some of it in an effort just
Speaker 1: to politically align themselves with the Catholic vote. Will will
Speaker 1: fund major and good projects that the bishops are trying
Speaker 1: to do in the social services arena. And I think
Speaker 1: that some of the dynamic here is that these bishops
Speaker 1: don't want to offend their friends or alienate their benefactors
Speaker 1: by bringing up, you know, emphasizing too much the abortion issue,
Speaker 1: because you know, that's the arena obviously where I was
Speaker 1: being critical of of them, you know, by name and
Speaker 1: administrations obviously, like the Obama and and and now Biden administrations.
Speaker 1: So I think some of it is that, you know,
Speaker 1: we don't want to have our friend, you'll, maybe they're
Speaker 1: not going to help us with these social programs anymore
Speaker 1: if we if we embarrass them over the abortion issue.
Speaker 1: And you know, aside from that, I mean, I I
Speaker 1: don't know. I can't imagine that these these these bishops
Speaker 1: are completely ignorant of the way that the party has
Speaker 1: aligned itself, uh, not just contrary, but in a direct
Speaker 1: assault on the things we believe in terms of life,
Speaker 1: religious freedom, human sexuality, the family. I mean, these teachings
Speaker 1: are are completely emphathetical.
Speaker 2: All of the all of the deeply anti Christian animus
Speaker 2: in politics and law in this country comes from the
Speaker 2: Democrat Party in the left.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: And yet yep, and yet Catholics, by large measure will
Speaker 2: still vote Democrat in national elections. Put that aside for
Speaker 2: a second. The Catholic hierarchy itself seems to be like
Speaker 2: a bunch of woke Marxists, and I sit around that.
Speaker 2: I'm like, right, I'm like, what are you guys doing?
Speaker 1: Noah, that's exactly right. And this is one of the
Speaker 1: things I've been I've been objecting to. And you know,
Speaker 1: they'll put out their voter guides and they'll say in
Speaker 1: those guides, oh, yes, you know, we have to protect
Speaker 1: the unborn. But then they'll make it look like all
Speaker 1: the other issues are of equal importance, which of course
Speaker 1: they're not, Like no logical standard can can can they
Speaker 1: be of equal importance? I mean, economic issues are important,
Speaker 1: but you know you can't boil down you know, what
Speaker 1: should be the minimum wage, for example, or or what
Speaker 1: trade agreement should we support and put that on the
Speaker 1: same level of should we be able to kill a baby?
Speaker 1: And yet their voter guides leave the voters with the
Speaker 1: impression that it's just an arithmetic calculation. Let me see
Speaker 1: how many issues this this candidate lines up with about
Speaker 1: the Catholic faith and how many or she doesn't. It's
Speaker 1: not arithmetic, it's geometric. In other words, the right to
Speaker 1: life is the foundation of every issue. Why is an
Speaker 1: issue an issue at all if it doesn't impact human
Speaker 1: life and you know we serve the poor? Why because
Speaker 1: they have a right to life. Unemployment is important issue
Speaker 1: because because there's a right to life. Stopping terrorism is important.
Speaker 1: Economic issues are important why because they impact human life,
Speaker 1: so that life is the foundation. You get that wrong
Speaker 1: and the whole structure will collapse.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you about the life issue and
Speaker 2: what your group priests for life. All right, let's just
Speaker 2: for a moment here, take a breather. The Biden administration
Speaker 2: is hell bent on spending money. They don't have you
Speaker 2: see it in this latest attempt to print money to
Speaker 2: pay off college loans without congressional approval. What are the
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Speaker 2: k Okay, Frank, So, I'm sorry, I gotta ask. Also,
Speaker 2: the Pope weighs in on climate change sometimes, like what
Speaker 2: is he doing? We've got we've got social degradation across
Speaker 2: the country, We've got the communist left running amok. Here
Speaker 2: did just with all the degeneracy around sexual issues and
Speaker 2: life and marriage, destroying marriage, telling women to be radical
Speaker 2: feminist blue haired wackos who are gonna be miserable in life,
Speaker 2: and that that they should be men, they can become men.
Speaker 2: And the Pope is talking about climate change.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if the priorities are all off base. You know,
Speaker 1: I worked at the Vatican for a while. It was
Speaker 1: under Pope John Paul the Second back in the late nineties,
Speaker 1: and the place is a big bureaucracy. Uh, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of people doing a lot of things, and it's
Speaker 1: easy to get a lot of bad apples in there.
Speaker 1: But but you know, it's up to the Pope to discern,
Speaker 1: you know, what advice I'm getting is good what is bad?
Speaker 1: And apparently this one's got his own ideas. I get
Speaker 1: complaints every single day about you know, things the Pope
Speaker 1: has said or done, or appointments that he's made, you know,
Speaker 1: to different Vatican offices from people who are pro abortion,
Speaker 1: pro LGBTQ. I mean, it's just it's the good thing
Speaker 1: is this. Look, we know that the faith, whether we're
Speaker 1: talking about the Catholic faith or the Christian faith more broadly,
Speaker 1: is not a matter of secrecy. You know, it has
Speaker 1: been open wide. God has revealed to the whole world
Speaker 1: what his word says. Everybody's got the access to the Bible,
Speaker 1: you know, the Catechism. You're a Catholic. There's no teaching
Speaker 1: that the Pope or the bishops have that the rest
Speaker 1: of us don't have. And it's understandable and it's clear
Speaker 1: so at certain times in history, if somebody's pastor if
Speaker 1: somebody's bishop, or even if a pope starts saying and
Speaker 1: doing things that contradict what the Church has always taught
Speaker 1: that the saving factor here is that the faithful are
Speaker 1: able to discern that difference overall, I mean under certain
Speaker 1: individuals will be confused, of course, especially if they're not
Speaker 1: tied into the church, and that's where the damage gets done.
Speaker 1: But we sometimes have to pick up the slack, the
Speaker 1: people in the pews, the laity, the parents teaching their children,
Speaker 1: folks that are, you know, spreading the word on social
Speaker 1: media or whichever way they can spread it. We've got
Speaker 1: to sometimes pick up the flack, the slack and get
Speaker 1: the true faith out there. And I think we're in
Speaker 1: we're in one of those phases of history right now.
Speaker 2: Do you think a Catholic Church is in trouble in
Speaker 2: America right now?
Speaker 1: Very much so, in trouble for going down in history
Speaker 1: as cowardly. That to me is the biggest issue. You know,
Speaker 1: in the Catholic Church, we honor in Uh we honor
Speaker 1: Saint Maximilian Kolbe, and people usually know the story. He
Speaker 1: was a priest, he was in the death camp, he
Speaker 1: exchanged his life for that of another prisoner who was
Speaker 1: a father of a family. Okay, So, but what people
Speaker 1: miss about that story is why he was in the
Speaker 1: death camp in the first place, and that was because
Speaker 1: as a priest, he was broadcasting and publishing from his
Speaker 1: monastery against the Nazi Party for its anti life, anti
Speaker 1: freedom positions. And now they punish priests wh or doing that. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: they canonize this guy, and it's like we're forgetting a
Speaker 1: big part of the story. And it's a lesson to
Speaker 1: the American church about courage. Are you going to connect
Speaker 1: the dots for people and say to them, Okay, if
Speaker 1: God's word says this, and if this is right and
Speaker 1: this is wrong, are we then going to going to
Speaker 1: apply it to our politics and speak out the way
Speaker 1: that we should.
Speaker 2: It's uh, it's distressing, that's for sure. And I think
Speaker 2: you're pointing out about cowardice. Go ahead, Frank.
Speaker 1: You know what's especially distressing about it that we're also
Speaker 1: living in a time where as you know, from the
Speaker 1: civil arena. You know, this was one of the key
Speaker 1: things President Trump latched onto during his first campaign. Remember
Speaker 1: when he was wondering, why am I getting such you know,
Speaker 1: warm receptions from the pastors and yet they can't endorse me.
Speaker 1: And and when he learned about this Johnson Amendment, he
Speaker 1: said that that that prevents the pastors from explicitly endorsing,
Speaker 1: at least through church channels. He said, oh, this has
Speaker 1: got to go. And you guys have to be able
Speaker 1: to speak your mind. And shortly after he took office,
Speaker 1: he issued in executive order, which by the way, is
Speaker 1: still in effect, it has not been revoked, which says, hey,
Speaker 1: we're not going to enforce this Johnson Amendment. Churches should
Speaker 1: be able to speak the way they want.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: And so the the the irony is, you know, here
Speaker 1: we have the civil government taking that obstacle out of
Speaker 1: the way, and here we are muzzling ourselves because of cowardice.
Speaker 2: Are priests that you know, you spend thirty years as
Speaker 2: a Catholic priest, right, are the priests that you come
Speaker 2: across by and large? Are they unaware that it is
Speaker 2: the political left in this country that honestly seeks to
Speaker 2: not just undermine and infiltrate the Catholic Church and the faith,
Speaker 2: but eventually to just stamp it out entirely. I mean,
Speaker 2: they view it as as anti LGBTQ. They view it
Speaker 2: as hierarchical, as anti female, as misogynistic, and are they
Speaker 2: not aware of this? Because I'll tell you, every time
Speaker 2: I go to church and I'm thinking back the last
Speaker 2: few years, whenever the homily turns even the least bit political,
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh great, I've got another communist and a
Speaker 2: Roman collar up there. Every time, you know, like a
Speaker 2: Nancy support Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden loving priest up at
Speaker 2: the end, I'm like, you mean, you mean the politicians
Speaker 2: who are the massive abortionists, those ones like I don't
Speaker 2: get it, Frank, explain help.
Speaker 1: Now, there's a there's a massive disconnect here. A lot
Speaker 1: of the clergy really are not aware or they they
Speaker 1: they are not aware of the depth of the problem.
Speaker 1: They don't realize how bad it is. And that's why
Speaker 1: I mean, they really need to be listening to you know,
Speaker 1: broadcasters like yourself and so many other commentators who are
Speaker 1: you know, hitting the nail on the head telling people
Speaker 1: how bad it is. They just haven't they haven't heard this.
Speaker 1: And then some who who are more aware of how
Speaker 1: bad it is, here's what will happen. They'll say, well,
Speaker 1: you know, but we have to be and they understand rightly,
Speaker 1: so their role as clergy to be reconcilers, peacemakers. Let's
Speaker 1: try to reach out. Let's Jesus eating, He's sitting down
Speaker 1: to eat with the sinners. Yet it's like, okay, but
Speaker 1: they take that too far in the sense that they
Speaker 1: they they they snuff out their own ability to you know,
Speaker 1: stand up. Also like Jesus the prophet, you know, saying
Speaker 1: repent of of of your sins. So is they go
Speaker 1: too far in the in the conciliatory mode, knowing what
Speaker 1: the problems are, and yet thinking somehow, I think very
Speaker 1: naively that we're in an era now in America where hey,
Speaker 1: you know, if we just kind of you know, reach
Speaker 1: across the aisle. These are really good people. We all
Speaker 1: want the same thing, and and and let's see if
Speaker 1: we can to bring them over to see things our way.
Speaker 1: That's not where we are right now. As you well know,
Speaker 1: as much of our audience knows well, these people are
Speaker 1: not interested. First of all, they're not out for the
Speaker 1: same thing. They're out to destroy America, destroy the church,
Speaker 1: their enemies. They made themselves our enemies, and there's only
Speaker 1: one way. It's a lot of these clergy, they'll say Oh, well,
Speaker 1: you know, we need civility and politics. We need to
Speaker 1: get back to normal. There's too much drama, there's too
Speaker 1: much vitriol, there's too much division. And my message to them,
Speaker 1: and what they don't realize is this, the only way
Speaker 1: back to normalcy in America is victory. To defeat these
Speaker 1: these communists, these Marxists that have taken over the Democrat Party.
Speaker 1: Name the evil and defeat the evil. That's the only
Speaker 1: way back to normal, say, because they're not going to
Speaker 1: let us get back to normal, as you're as you're
Speaker 1: pointing out, they want to destroy the church, they want
Speaker 1: to destroy the dignity of life, they want to destroy
Speaker 1: the family, and they want to destroy America.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're the one that they have a problem
Speaker 2: with being a priest. I don't know. I sit here,
Speaker 2: you know, I try. I talk to family members who
Speaker 2: are still going to church on Sundays, and I'll say
Speaker 2: things like that, you have to wade through all the
Speaker 2: at your Catholic church. You go past all the the
Speaker 2: you know, the the BLM posters and the Pride flags
Speaker 2: and everything else. I'm like, but they're not political over there, right,
Speaker 2: They're not. I mean, it's it's just right. It really.
Speaker 2: You start to say like you know, and they'll oh,
Speaker 2: and you know, Donald Trump is so Awful'm like, I
Speaker 2: mean the guy who appointed the two Supreme Court justices
Speaker 2: that finally got Roe v. Wade overturn that guy. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I want to ask about a priest for life because
Speaker 2: I want to get people something to do here and
Speaker 2: not just you know, this has turned into a bit
Speaker 2: of a therapy session for me. You can't hear confession anymore, Frank,
Speaker 2: but you know, same idea. But we'll come back into
Speaker 2: this in just a second and answer the question what
Speaker 2: can be done about this? And what is priest for
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Speaker 2: All right, Frank, telling me what is Priest for Life
Speaker 2: up to and how can people get involved?
Speaker 1: You know, we played a big role with the Dobbs decision,
Speaker 1: especially educating people about what it actually means, and now
Speaker 1: we've got to do the work. So we're helping out
Speaker 1: in various states where the abortion side of the equation
Speaker 1: are trying to make more abortion available, they're trying to
Speaker 1: make fewer restrictions. Most Americans want more protections for the unborn,
Speaker 1: not less, but these radical abortionists, they want even fewer
Speaker 1: protections for these children. So we're working, for example, right
Speaker 1: now in Ohio, there's a big push to amend their
Speaker 1: constitution to allow unlimited abortion, and so going in there
Speaker 1: educating people what this really means, mobilizing the voters, some
Speaker 1: of the basic election related stuff, get these voters registered,
Speaker 1: but they've get them educated at what this amendment is
Speaker 1: that's going to be on the November ballot. And the
Speaker 1: same effort, the same battle is taking place in many
Speaker 1: other states. So Priests for Life connects the people who
Speaker 1: are interested in this issue. And again, not just priests,
Speaker 1: not just Catholics, anyone across America that wants to protect
Speaker 1: these children and stop this crazy unlimited abortion can connect
Speaker 1: with us. We'll keep them informed, will mobilize them, will
Speaker 1: give them the information they need depending on where they live,
Speaker 1: will inform them about the battles that are taking place
Speaker 1: in their particular state. And we have a whole team
Speaker 1: of people who travel and speak and train these activists
Speaker 1: both on the ground and online. We help the churches,
Speaker 1: will help families, will help pro life groups network with
Speaker 1: each other. Those are some of the things buck that
Speaker 1: we're doing at the moment.
Speaker 2: Where's the website where shoud people go?
Speaker 1: It's End Abortion dot Us dabortion dot Us, and folks
Speaker 1: will find a lot of different branches of our ministry
Speaker 1: what I mentioned, and also a lot of healing after abortion.
Speaker 1: That's a whole other topic, but they'll find find help
Speaker 1: there for people that are experiencing its pain. Dabortion dot Us.
Speaker 2: Frank Pavone, appreciate you, appreciate your work, Thanks for being here.
Speaker 1: God bless you back. Thank you