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Speaker 1: It's a Tuesday morning in Brooklyn, and well it's a

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Speaker 1: strange scene. Usually this part of New York City is

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Speaker 1: packed with busy office workers and pedestrians bumping into each

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Speaker 1: other rushing to their daily commutes. Today the streets are

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Speaker 1: nearly empty, and as the threat of the novel coronavirus

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Speaker 1: pandemic continues, many people have stayed home.

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Speaker 2: But not everyone.

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Speaker 1: We wanted to know who was out in the street

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Speaker 1: working when so many others had been asked by the

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Speaker 1: government and even by their own employers to avoid being outside.

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Speaker 3: Who says.

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Speaker 1: Here's our producer Joanna Luna talking to a construction worker

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Speaker 1: as he says the only directions he's gotten so far

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Speaker 1: have been to show up to work.

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Speaker 3: Hi a.

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Speaker 1: Verda, a woman collecting bottles on the sidewalk, says she's

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Speaker 1: leaving her fate in God's handssos quing. And then there's

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Speaker 1: a delivery man who says he's worried he could come

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Speaker 1: into contact with the virus at any time. There's the

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Speaker 1: flower vendor. He says he needs to keep going out

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Speaker 1: because he can't make money by staying home. Those of

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Speaker 1: us who can have probably been obsessively following the headlines

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Speaker 1: about the virus.

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Speaker 2: The Centers for Disease Control says the coronavirus could soon

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Speaker 2: turn into a Pandemicictan.

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Speaker 1: State resident fell ill after returning for Huhan Digital school

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Speaker 1: districts shutting down today now four point nine million schools.

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Speaker 4: It is going to take drastic measures for us to

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Speaker 4: get on top of.

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Speaker 1: It, but not everyone can afford to take the same measures.

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Speaker 1: From futuro media, it's Latino USA. I'm Maria ino Josa.

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Speaker 1: Low income immigrant communities may very well be facing the

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Speaker 1: brunt of the coronavirus threat. They're often employed in labor, retail,

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Speaker 1: and service industry jobs, like the people we met in Brooklyn.

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Speaker 1: Many have to keep working to make ends meet even

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Speaker 1: as the number of people who are sick with COVID

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Speaker 1: nineteen rises exponentially, and this makes them very vulnerable. But

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Speaker 1: when it comes to seeking healthcare. One policy measure put

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Speaker 1: in place by the Trump administration is causing particular concern

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Speaker 1: and confusion for immigrants across the country. It's called the

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Speaker 1: Public Charge Rule. The new regulation and would dramatically expand

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Speaker 1: the definition of public charge, a centuries old term used

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Speaker 1: to classify immigrants who depend on the government for support.

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Speaker 1: Under this rule, if certain immigrants are applying for a

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Speaker 1: green card or a visa, using federal benefit programs like

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Speaker 1: food stamps and Medicare can jeopardize their chances of getting approved.

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Speaker 1: Opponents argue that the rule could be scaring immigrants away

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Speaker 1: from getting the healthcare they need, especially during this health crisis.

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Speaker 1: To better understand the risks low income immigrant communities face

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Speaker 1: during this time and the challenges they have in seeking healthcare,

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Speaker 1: we spoke to Katherine Kim. She's a policy and politics

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Speaker 1: reporter for vox dot com. And just a quick note

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Speaker 1: on the sound quality you're about to hear because of

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Speaker 1: safety measures during this time. Catherine recorded herself from her home.

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Speaker 1: She comes across loud and clear, but the interview was

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Speaker 1: definitely not taped in a studio, and I'm recording from

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Speaker 1: my home studio, So bear with us. Catherine Kim, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to Latin USA.

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Speaker 3: Hi, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: So, I guess I just want to start out and

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Speaker 1: ask you, why is it so important for you as

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Speaker 1: a journalist in a moment of a pandemic like this,

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Speaker 1: a worldwide crisis, that you want to write about low

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Speaker 1: income immigrant communities.

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Speaker 4: I think it's ironic that we place low income immigrants

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Speaker 4: in these low wage jobs because we think that they

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Speaker 4: aren't as important. But during times like this, we realize

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Speaker 4: that grocery store workers and retail workers are so crucial

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Speaker 4: during pandemics and so crucial to our daily lives that

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Speaker 4: they're the one part of society that we can let

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Speaker 4: go like they can't go home. A lot of the

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Speaker 4: discussions we were having were surrounded around the more privileged populations.

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Speaker 4: I guess, people who could afford to social distance and

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Speaker 4: people who could afford to kind of quarantine themselves and

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Speaker 4: leave work work from home. But the reality is that

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Speaker 4: there are so many more people out there who just

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Speaker 4: do not have that luxury, and I just did not

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Speaker 4: think that there is enough coverage of that.

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Speaker 1: So, Catherine, you cited the Economic Policy Institute, and in

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Speaker 1: their research they found that many retail and service industry

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Speaker 1: jobs just don't provide support for sick employees. Only twenty

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Speaker 1: seven percent of people making below the bottom ten percent

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Speaker 1: actually have paid sick leave, and that leaves out a

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Speaker 1: lot of workers. So I'm wondering if you can expand

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Speaker 1: a little bit on the kinds of challenges that low

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Speaker 1: income immigrants are facing when if they don't work, they

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Speaker 1: don't get paid.

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Speaker 4: I think that low income immigrants are particularly vulnerable in

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Speaker 4: situations like this because of the jobs that there are.

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Speaker 4: In a lot of the low paying retail service jobs

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Speaker 4: do not provide sick paid leave, and they do not

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Speaker 4: have a lot of jobs ability, so they don't have

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Speaker 4: the luxury to take time off if they feel sick,

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Speaker 4: and in that case, they are forced to go out

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Speaker 4: to work and they're forced to interact with a lot

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Speaker 4: of people because of the nature of their job. So

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Speaker 4: not only are they unable to take time off when

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Speaker 4: they feel well, but they're also exposed to high risk

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Speaker 4: environments where they are more likely to get coronavirus because

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Speaker 4: the sheer amount of FaceTime that they have with clients

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Speaker 4: are pretty high in the jobs that they have.

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Speaker 1: So we mentioned this earlier. There's this thing called the

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Speaker 1: public Charge rule, and this is something that the Trump

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Speaker 1: administration enacted last month. So what are the origins of

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Speaker 1: this public charge rule and how do you think it

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Speaker 1: might affect immigrants during the pandemic.

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Speaker 4: So the rule was introduced earlier last year, went up

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Speaker 4: to the Supreme Court, and then it was a narrow

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Speaker 4: vote five to four and it was passed, so it

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Speaker 4: went into effect February twenty for and so to clarify,

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Speaker 4: people with green cards will not be affected by the

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Speaker 4: public charge rule. It's for people in the future who

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Speaker 4: want to obtain a green card. For them, it will

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Speaker 4: be harder to be naturalized. So main concern with this

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Speaker 4: is that it would scare people away from seeking the

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Speaker 4: necessary help they need.

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Speaker 3: And it's concerning because we need.

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Speaker 4: To ensure that people get the proper health care that

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Speaker 4: they need so that if they have coronavirus it can

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Speaker 4: be detected right away and isolated right away so that

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Speaker 4: it's not spread within the community.

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Speaker 1: Basically, we're touching on a lot of fear and disinformation

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Speaker 1: when it comes to what immigrants, whether they have green

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Speaker 1: cards or whether they're undocumented, can or can't do. And

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering, in you're reporting this issue of misinformation and

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Speaker 1: playing into fears of immigrants or undocumented immigrants, what did

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Speaker 1: you see and what concerns did this race for you?

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Speaker 4: I think the misinformation is what concerned me. The most

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Speaker 4: communication from the government was so it wasn't transparent, So

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Speaker 4: that's the main concern to me, that especially children are

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Speaker 4: being impacted by this because the government has failed to

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Speaker 4: communicate the public charge role in an effective way with

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Speaker 4: the people that will be most impacted by it. I

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Speaker 4: was talking to the Northwest Immigrant Rights Project. It's based

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Speaker 4: in Seattle. I was talking to the executive director, and

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Speaker 4: he was telling me he's been going around giving talks

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Speaker 4: about the public charge role, making sure that people have

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Speaker 4: the right information. And it was just as coronavirus was

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Speaker 4: starting to pick up in the community and a lot

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Speaker 4: of parents had come up to him sharing their concerns.

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Speaker 4: Children who receive medicaid actually are not impacted by the

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Speaker 4: public charge role, but a lot of parents were actually

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Speaker 4: afraid and did not have the accurate information, and so

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Speaker 4: they pulled their children out of Medicaid, and obviously that

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Speaker 4: leaves these children in super vulnerable positions.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: Usually the Trump administration is saying that any medical treatment

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Speaker 1: related to the coronavirus will be exempt from the public

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Speaker 1: charge rule. Details are up on the US Citizenship and

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Speaker 1: Immigration Services website. That's USCIS, But that's a big piece

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Speaker 1: of news, and frankly, I haven't seen that anywhere else.

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Speaker 1: Has there been an effort by the government to put

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Speaker 1: this out there in a big way that says, if

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Speaker 1: you want to get or need treatment for coronavirus, this

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Speaker 1: won't count against you when you're applying for your visa

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Speaker 1: or your Green card.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, that information hasn't really been circulated, and there's

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Speaker 4: also a lot of concerns surrounding this specific exemption. I

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Speaker 4: think a lot of experts still would prefer a complete

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Speaker 4: halt on the public charge rule for now as the

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Speaker 4: coronavirus still remains within the country, just because when there's

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Speaker 4: an exemption, that means that people will still not get

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Speaker 4: the necessary health to treat for other diseases that can

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Speaker 4: later on impact their immune system and make them more

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Speaker 4: vulnerable to coronavirus.

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Speaker 1: In terms of your reporting, have you been able to

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Speaker 1: tell if uninsured, low income immigrants have stopped seeking healthcare

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Speaker 1: during this outbreak because of what they worry would be

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Speaker 1: the residual impact on their cases.

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Speaker 4: So that's one thing I was trying to find out too.

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Speaker 4: I think the consensus is that it's too early to

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Speaker 4: have the numbers, but anecdotally, enrollment officers from places like

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Speaker 4: the Universal Community Health Center in Los Angeles, which serves

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Speaker 4: a majorly low income immigrant population, the enrollment officer there

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Speaker 4: was telling me that he's seen a huge drop in

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Speaker 4: people coming in asking about medicaid, and so I think

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Speaker 4: once like about a year passes and we have the numbers,

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Speaker 4: we'll definitely see a significant drop and people seeking government

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Speaker 4: aid and healthcare.

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Speaker 1: So what are some of the local efforts that you

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Speaker 1: have seen that are being designed, if at all, to

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Speaker 1: help these particular communities. In your reporting, you found that

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Speaker 1: some states and regional governments are actually trying to be

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Speaker 1: very proactive in terms of curbing the spread of the

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Speaker 1: virus and looking at these communities in particular what's happening.

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Speaker 4: There, especially states that have a high immigrant population. So

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Speaker 4: New York and California have definitely been trying to reduce

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Speaker 4: the cost of testing, trying to ensure sick paid leave.

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Speaker 4: I think Seattle's pretty good at working with immigrant organizations

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Speaker 4: to ensure that the news is being passed on in

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Speaker 4: their native language. News is changing so rapidly that even

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Speaker 4: reporters are having a hard time catching up with it,

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Speaker 4: So I mean, imagine how much harder it must be

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Speaker 4: for people who aren't constantly following the news twenty four

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Speaker 4: to seven, So there definitely has to be a more

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Speaker 4: active effort, a joint effort between community organizations that have

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Speaker 4: close ties with these communities and state governments and spreading

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Speaker 4: the information.

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Speaker 1: Coming up on Latino USA, the price of treatment for

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Speaker 1: COVID nineteen and what this means for the community clinics

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Speaker 1: that serve as the only safety unit for many low

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Speaker 1: income immigrants.

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Speaker 2: Stay with us.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Hey, we're back and we're going to continue our

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Speaker 1: conversation now with Catherine Kim. She's a policy and politics

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Speaker 1: reporter for vox dot com. We're talking about the health

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Speaker 1: risks that many immigrants face as a coronavirus pandemic keeps

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Speaker 1: on growing. Do we have any sense if let's just

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Speaker 1: say this uh migrant was able to get themselves tested

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Speaker 1: and you know, they turned out to be positive. I'm

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Speaker 1: just thinking about the cost of treating I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: a lot of ifs whether or not this you know,

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Speaker 1: undocumented immigrant might even show up at a clinic that

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Speaker 1: was open that happened to have a test. But if

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Speaker 1: all of that happened and they came up positive, what

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Speaker 1: kind of a cost is there to their treatment and

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Speaker 1: is it even affordable?

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Speaker 4: So there's still a lot of uncertainty around the actual

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Speaker 4: price tag on coronavirus treatment just because it seems like

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Speaker 4: a lot of insurance companies haven't been able to settle

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Speaker 4: upon a set price. Yet there's still so much that's

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Speaker 4: unknown about the pricing for your treatment itself.

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Speaker 1: Can you talk about the costs of the tests for

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Speaker 1: clinics and or patients? What do we talking about in

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Speaker 1: terms of costs?

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Speaker 4: So there's a lot of confusion surrounding testing, and a

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Speaker 4: lot is changing very.

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Speaker 3: Rapidly as of now.

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Speaker 4: The kind of the status quo is that a lot

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Speaker 4: of insurance companies have offered to waive testing fees, like

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Speaker 4: atn A, Blue Cross, Blue Shield, and Medicaid also covers

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Speaker 4: it as well. And even before then, states like California

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Speaker 4: New York had already waived fees for people with insurance.

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Speaker 4: The problem is that a lot of immigrants aren't uninsured,

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Speaker 4: especially now with a public charge rule. Twenty three percent

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Speaker 4: of immigrants with legal status and forty five percent of

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Speaker 4: undocumented immigrants do not have insurance, and that's like a

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Speaker 4: huge gap in comparison to citizens where only eight percent do.

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Speaker 3: Not have health care.

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Speaker 4: And so when you do not have insurance, you have

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Speaker 4: to pay a significant amount of money, even in California,

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Speaker 4: where it's kind of estimated to be the lowest cost

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Speaker 4: for uninsured people, you still have to pay like one

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Speaker 4: hundred to two hundred dollars, which for low income people,

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Speaker 4: that's foregoing two weeks worth of groceries. If community health

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Speaker 4: centers have the test, technically they can give out those

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Speaker 4: tests for free, because I mean under law, they cannot

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Speaker 4: turn anyone away even if they do not have money.

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Speaker 4: The problem is that they just do not have enough tests.

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Speaker 1: What happens if these community clinics end up being closed

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Speaker 1: down or being forced to shut down, or not having

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Speaker 1: enough staffing to keep open. How are they run, how

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Speaker 1: are they funded? And are they the first clinics that

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Speaker 1: might go.

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Speaker 4: It's a huge concern. I had reached out to several

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Speaker 4: community health centers all across the nation, and one common

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Speaker 4: thread that everyone was mentioning was just kind of the

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Speaker 4: lack of resources that they had, especially the lack of staffing.

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Speaker 4: These nonprofit health centers are mainly funded by the government,

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Speaker 4: but one of the reasons why they've been lacking in

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Speaker 4: resources is because the House and the Senate filled reauthorized

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Speaker 4: the Community Health Center Fund, which basically provides more than

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Speaker 4: seventy percent of the budget for these medical nonprofits.

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Speaker 3: And so without this fund, they've really been struggling.

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Speaker 4: Congress is trying to help out a bit, so recently

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Speaker 4: they passed an eight point three billion dollar bill kind

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Speaker 4: of like an emergent coronavirus spill out. About one hundred

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Speaker 4: million dollars was dedicated to health centers that cater to

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Speaker 4: underserved communities. As of now, that money hasn't reached health

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Speaker 4: centers yet, and a lot of people do think that

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Speaker 4: it won't be enough.

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Speaker 1: I've been thinking a lot about privilege in this conversation

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Speaker 1: and in the whole pandemic. You know, people with privilege

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Speaker 1: have access to a lot of information and they can

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Speaker 1: buy things. Frankly, they won't lose their jobs if they

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Speaker 1: miss a week of work. So I'm just thinking down

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Speaker 1: the line in terms of, you know, immigrants, low income workers,

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Speaker 1: the uninsured, communities of color that will likely be disproportionately

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Speaker 1: affected by the pandemic. And what have you thought in

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Speaker 1: terms of how people with privilege who want to do better,

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Speaker 1: what we can do in terms of moving forward.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I've definitely been thinking a lot about my own

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Speaker 4: privilege as well. I guess while reporting on this because

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Speaker 4: I have the luxury of calling pe people from my

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Speaker 4: own house, working from home, reporting remotely, while the people

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Speaker 4: I'm actually reporting on have to be serving in restaurants

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Speaker 4: and grocery stores and a lot of these low paying

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Speaker 4: and retail service jobs. A lot of organizations have started

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Speaker 4: setting up funds to support low income immigrants that have

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Speaker 4: been impacted by COVID nineteen because they've been laid off

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Speaker 4: because they can't get enough shifts. So donating to that

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Speaker 4: is one way we can help. Also calling your local

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Speaker 4: representative asking them to repeal the public change rule. Also,

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Speaker 4: be nice to retail service workers. I know it's a

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Speaker 4: stressful time, but I've been hearing so many horror stories.

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Speaker 4: These people are working their best. They don't have the

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Speaker 4: privilege to kind of take a day off even if

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Speaker 4: they feel sick, So just be nice to them.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Catherine. And just one last thing.

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Speaker 1: It reminds me you mentioned before this interview that you

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Speaker 1: were thinking about going to South Korea to be with

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Speaker 1: your family and maybe get tested.

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Speaker 2: So are you still planning on going.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I am so planning on going to South Korea.

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Speaker 4: My parents and I decided that at this point, it's

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Speaker 4: safer to be in South Korea.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, yeah, I was gonna say it's

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Speaker 1: probably safer at this point.

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Speaker 4: Exactly because treatments so much easier, testing is so much easier.

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Speaker 4: I Mean, my biggest fear is getting the virus while

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Speaker 4: I'm in the airport, even if I take like precautionary measures.

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Speaker 4: So I've already like figured out with my parents that

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Speaker 4: I'm going to a drive through testing spot as soon

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Speaker 4: as i get off the plane, and they will text

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Speaker 4: me my results the next day, like in less than

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Speaker 4: twenty four hours.

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Speaker 3: That is just not capable here.

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Speaker 2: Thanks again for all of your reporting.

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Speaker 3: All right, thank you.

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Speaker 1: That was Catherine Kim, policy and politics reporter for vox

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Speaker 1: dot Com. This episode was produced by Alejandra Rassak and

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Speaker 1: edited by Luis Trees and Sophia Parisa kar Additional reporting

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Speaker 1: by Joy Adeluna and Niel Massias. The Latino USA team

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00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:53,159
Speaker 1: includes Antonio Serejidromoca, and Alissa Scarce. Fact checking by Julies Barsa.

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Speaker 1: Our engineers are Stephanie Lebau and Julia Caruso. Additional engineering

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Speaker 1: this week by Leah Shaw. Our production manager is Natalia Fiedelhotz.

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