WEBVTT - 061723 The Brooklyn Neighborhood that Polices Itself (Part 1) 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:03.160 Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:05.960 welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher. I am 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:07.200 your host, Ramsey's job. 0:00:07.440 --> 0:00:11.799 He is Jay. He speaks so eloquently, don't you agree? 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:15.880 Do you hear the velvet? And Okay, I'm sorry sometimes 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:17.959 I get a little carried away, but his tone is 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:23.080 just so anyway, he's rams' Jah. I am q Ward 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:26.599 And you are tuned in to sit excitfl Yes, sir, 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:28.560 We're gonna have some fun today. Stick around because we 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:31.800 had a lot to talk about. Per usual, we are. 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:35.360 Going to be spending some time talking about a Brooklyn 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:38.160 neighborhood that policed itself. 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:41.200 Is Brooklyn in the house without a doubt? Okay. 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:46.280 We talk a lot on this show about the defund 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:49.880 the police movement. We've renamed it a couple of times, 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:53.040 but effectually, what we've described it as a reallocation of 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.880 police resources and a rethinking of what policing means. And 0:00:56.920 --> 0:01:00.280 so now we have a little bit more data and 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:02.640 we're going to talk about it. Some has been positive, 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:08.360 some has been challenging. But today we have a positive 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:10.680 case and we'd love to share the details of that 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:13.679 with you. Also, just in time for Father's Day, we're 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:18.520 going to be talking about black fatherhood, specifically the myths 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:24.560 surrounding absent black fathers in this country, which a. 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:27.440 Heck of a story to tell and then perpetuated, isn't it. Yeah? 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:30.160 Yeah, And so you know you may have grown up thinking, well, 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:31.959 black people just need to stay in the homes and 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:33.800 raise their kids. Well was It turns out black people 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:37.240 are better at doing that than everybody else, black men specifically, 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:39.920 and the data supports that. In short, you can check 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:43.640 that out via the CDC or just a quick Google 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:45.280 search and you just find out that black fathers are 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:47.400 doing better than everyone else. But we're going to talk 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:49.320 about it, of course, in more detail on the show, 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:52.320 and of course many many other things that you'd like 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:56.040 to hear about, including the largest deportation in US history, 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:58.560 which affected our Mexican American brothers and sisters. So stay 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:02.760 tuned for that. But first and foremost, like we always 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:07.000 do it, this time, we're gonna discuss some ebony excellence. 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:08.240 How does that sound cute? 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.079 Shall we? We shall? So this is. 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:13.960 My favorite brought to you by Major Threads for the 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:17.200 finest in menswear. Check out Major Threads Dot com This 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:22.360 comes from Double XL magazine. Tupac Shakur, I'll say it, 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:27.160 the best rapper ever, greatest rapper of all time. 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:29.359 You guys can't see me, but I definitely just threw 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:32.680 up the West Side one time for the late great 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:34.800 Tupacamorrow Shakour. 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:36.560 Listen and if you want to debate me, I'm ready. 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:39.800 I stay ready for that one. But Tupac Shakur has 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.080 finally been honored with a star in Hollywood Walk of Fame. 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:46.240 On June seventh, he was posthumously. He posthumously joined the 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:49.160 increasing list of rappers turned actors who've been enshrine on 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:52.079 the world famous Hollywood Walk of Fame. Seems like it 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:53.760 would have already happened by now. 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.200 But no, I would have thought it was overdue, except 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:57.640 I assumed did it already happen? 0:02:57.720 --> 0:02:57.880 Yeah? 0:02:57.919 --> 0:02:59.000 Same anyway. 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:02.720 This ceremony was led by Los Angeles radio legend and 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:06.320 our good friend big Boy. Big Boy, and Tupac's sister 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:08.559 accepted the word. 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:11.519 On his behalf. 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:13.640 It was the two thousand, seven hundred and fifty eight 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:20.200 star and there were speeches from Jamal Joseph and he 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:22.840 was the one who directed Dear Mama Saga Feffini and 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:27.160 Tupac Shakur. And let's see his newly minted star on 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:28.639 the Hollywood Walk of Fame is located. 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:32.040 Just a quick correction, Alan Hughes directed that Oh Dog 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.480 okay as a writer and activist who was also president 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:38.400 and Spring Tupac's brother. Thank you for that. Yeah, I 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:39.160 misread that, okay. 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:41.520 And if you want to check out the star, it's 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:47.120 located at sixty two twelve Hollywood Boulevard in Hollywood, California. 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:51.640 And now he joins other hip hop notables such as 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:55.360 DJ Khaled, Missy Elliott, and the late Nipsey Hustle. And 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:58.960 of course he's got lots of musical work, but film 0:03:58.960 --> 0:03:59.520 work as well. 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:00.680 The star as well deserved. 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:02.840 So shout out to Tupac that is have any excellence 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:05.360 if I ever seen it. 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:08.880 So that made me very happy indeed. 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:20.920 All right, So defunding the police, ma'am a great idea 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:28.080 that was challenged, which I'm not mad at. Great ideas 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:29.960 need to be challenged, right. 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:32.760 It was. 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:37.839 I think we both both Q and I here on 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:42.640 the show, we both have had wished that it had 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:46.000 been marketed better. I just wish they'd had a think tank. 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:50.359 Yeah, you know what I mean, spitball some ideas on 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.680 how should we phrase this, because of course you can't 0:04:54.720 --> 0:05:01.040 explain everything in a catchphrase. But defund the police sounded 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:06.880 so it's alarming. Yeah, it triggered an almost negative response, 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:09.720 even in people that supported the idea, like we've had 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:12.760 rams and I have had opportunities to have that conversation 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:15.240 in long form, and at the end of that conversation 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:17.479 looked at people who were like, oh, yeah, that makes 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:20.200 all the sense in the world. Even those people heard 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:24.920 defund the policemen were like, oh right, if we want 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:28.520 to defund, we don't want to not have policing. 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:34.280 So one of the things that I want to say, 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:42.440 I feel like the people who may have come up 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:45.880 with this idea, maybe they were being intentional about having 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:50.000 something so alarming, because for better or worse, it got 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:55.400 everybody talking, Okay, for better or worse that that that's true, 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:58.280 But remember at that time, we needed to have conversations. 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:00.359 The police were killing people that think I think the 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:04.680 focus group would have helped us to not have It's 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:09.360 such a negative immediate response, even though it started conversations. 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:11.919 Both in a lot of cases, both sides of the 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:14.080 argument were coming to the table feeling the same. That's 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:14.719 not what you want. 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:16.640 Yeah, that's not the type of conversation. But the fact 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:19.359 of the matter is that having it takes center stage 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:25.320 meant that at least some people started to conceptualize what 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:30.719 it means to rethink policing. Some people, I'll say it again, 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:36.520 some people started to conceptualize what it means to rethink policing. 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:42.520 Operation rethink policing probably would have been a better sure, sure. 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:45.920 Sure, but maybe it might not have had the same 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:49.800 gripping effect on the populace. Now this is this is me, 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:53.320 This is me maybe making excuses or maybe trying to 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:56.960 you know, imagine what the folks who came out with 0:06:57.000 --> 0:06:59.200 this idea might have been trying to do. I don't know, 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:01.520 I don't want to profess us to know. But the 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:07.880 fact is that this idea rose up in late twenty 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:12.520 twenty about defunding the police. 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:11.880 And. 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:18.320 That led to a rethinking of what policing means, what 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:23.280 policing should encompass. Remember, police were responding to things that 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.840 didn't necessarily have anything to do with public safety. Still, yeah, 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:34.960 and they were responding to bonafide medical health related emergencies 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:39.560 with weapons. Draw You see what I'm saying, And you 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.760 said this before on the show to the man with 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:47.520 the hammer. Everything is a nail? Is there some sort 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:52.080 of like saying or anecdote or something like that, some 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:55.880 sort of I forget the name of it, but I 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:59.200 think it encompasses kind of the feeling when it comes 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:03.040 to at least enough police to where we can identify 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:06.440 there's a problem. Sure, not every police officer is bang bang, 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:08.480 shoot them up, let me get my gun first. I 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:12.840 recognize and see that immediately. But there is a problem. 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:15.240 And the people that turn the blind eye to this 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:18.160 problem are the people often enough where the problem doesn't 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:19.320 affect them in their communities. 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:21.680 It doesn't show up at their doorsteps, so it's not happened, right, 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:22.640 or it's not important. 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:26.280 So let's say if even if we just take a 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:31.000 small number, one percent of the police is they're out 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:33.640 of pocket, out of line, and ninety nine percent are good. 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:36.480 Sence a high number. 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:38.560 But listen, let's just hit me out because it's simple 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:40.920 for the listeners to follow. One percent of the police 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:45.000 are bad, they're pulling out guns, they're mistreating people, police brutality, 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:47.960 not playing by the rules doing a legal activity, you 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:54.839 name it, right if because the consequences are so dire 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:58.560 for police mistakes, and indeed police end up making up 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:02.120 for it and taxpayers. Because of qualified immunity, police are 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:06.680 never held accountable for mistakes they make or indeed egregious 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:11.120 overstepping of their their boundaries. But let me say this, 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:16.439 because the consequences are so dire, because oftentimes they're life 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:18.679 and death, because they're recorded, because we have to witness it, 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:21.360 and because it doesn't affect certain communities, they're able to 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:23.680 turn the blind eye to it. Now, let's swap it out. 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:31.840 Let's say one percent of pilots are bad apples. Okay, 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:36.480 phrase that. We've heard you sure a lot of your story. Sure, sure, 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:41.600 Now all of a sudden, it's everybody's problem. And you 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:44.080 get this with the with the FAA, I believe it 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:46.360 is right, the Federal Aviation Administration. 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:47.760 I want to say, there's. 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:49.360 No such thing as one percent. There's no such thing 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.560 as bad pilots, period. You can that is not a job. 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.320 Where you're not a pilot anymore. Once' that's it, that 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:57.600 you're a bad one. Then okay, that's it. Right, Do 0:09:57.640 --> 0:09:58.800 this commercially. 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:02.360 More exactly when it comes to like doctors, and you 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:05.280 can lose your medical license, you can be disbarred if 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:07.640 you're a bad lawyer, all of these things. There's all 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:09.880 this sort of oversight. But you know, for police, and 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:13.000 we've given them carte blanche to write their own rules 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:16.760 to insulate themselves from the consequences of their actions. And 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:21.280 oftentimes it's black people, black and brown communities and poor 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:24.920 communities that end up bearing the brunt of police violence. 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:32.240 And we end up incarcerated or getting involved in the 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:36.160 car sool system in this country because of bad actors 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:42.360 or because of a litany of other circumstances, and that 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:45.959 shapes outcomes not just for individuals, but for communities. Let's 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:48.360 add one more thing. I know I'm on my soapbox here, 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:50.400 but follow me. I'm going to add one more thing here. 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:57.680 Oftentimes the recruitment tactics for police are in such a 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:03.360 way that they attract peopeople who have a predisposition toward violence. 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:05.880 If your police recruitment and video shows everybody in a 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:09.079 tank riding through a war zone, jumping out and shooting, 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:11.640 you know, in the practice fields, or are hashtag stop 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:15.480 cop city folks jumping out shooting guns. 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:16.960 It's too late. I think they are already. 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:18.160 No, it's it's never too late. 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:19.320 They already moved forward. 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:21.000 No, it's never too late. I had a conversation with you, 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:24.160 Naja how lone Wolf recently on the Bion Daily podcast, 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.680 and there's still some some movement there. 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.960 So keep the faith everywhere, encouraging story, keep the faith everyone. 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:35.240 But you know, if they're playing this like death metal 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:37.880 music in the background and they have like the Punisher logo, 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:40.680 you know that you might be attracting a violent sort 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:43.920 of person to engage in this. Add to that the 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:52.320 systemic and historical composition of police, which is overwhelmingly white 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:56.480 and overwhelmingly male, and it doesn't it's not an accurate 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:58.560 reflection of the population, and so you end up with 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:04.320 this toxic mix of folks who are deciding what policing is. 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.160 But because that's what we're used to, because this is 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:10.680 what we've seen, then we find it hard to challenge that. 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:15.280 So the one percent of police is too high a number, 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:21.760 and I believe that that's even to you seem like 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:23.120 you might have had some data on that. 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:26.040 It's close to ten thousand officers would be one percent. 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:33.600 You talking about ten thousand potential murderers, drug traffickers in 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:36.800 this bad actors. Let's make it a little bit more generally, 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:40.000 a little bit more palatable. But that's ten thousand though, 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:43.040 that's not a couple hundred. That's not a couple right, 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:47.160 because one bad pilot would be too many. Ten thousand 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:50.280 possible bad actors should be way too many. 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:53.600 Right, And again this is a thought experiment. I suspect 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:57.760 that there are more than one percent. You can just 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:06.480 look at the domestic violence that is reported for police officers. 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:12.400 That's reported, right. It's common knowledge that police officers are 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:17.000 own to domestic violence. Again, these recruitment tactics tend to 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.679 recruit people with a predisposition toward violence. They want to 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:21.120 beat them up, they want to shoot them up, they 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.000 want to do this sort of stuff. So I say 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:28.200 all that to say, rethinking policing was the order of 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:32.440 the day. It still is very much so. And one 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:36.960 of the things that came from that rethink was this 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:39.360 idea of community policing. 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:40.640 Right. 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:44.040 In other words, we don't need to invest billions of 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:49.880 dollars into policing. We can invest into programs that actually 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:54.480 have a direct and proven impact on crime rates things 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:59.439 like daycare. Access to daycare has a direct effect on 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:03.160 crime rate. It has proven, it is well documented. Buying 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:07.040 another tank, hiring more officers and giving them more badges 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:11.000 and guns, better training. It been better training since the fifties. 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:13.560 These things do not work. They do not cause crime 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:17.800 rates to go down. Eight cares do. How about that? Right? 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:21.360 So you start to begin understand how a rethink access 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:24.800 to daycare, access to day sure, access to jobs keep going, 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.880 access to land, access to capital, their housing, food, housing, medicine. 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:33.280 Ye, all the above, all of those healthcare. Listen, increase 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:37.720 the likelihood that your neighborhood safer, not one hundred more 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:39.200 cops patrolling your neighborhood. 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.840 How about this, I will for those listening, think of 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:48.080 the safest neighborhood you know, the safest neighborhood you've ever 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.440 been in. Just think of imagine it the platonic ideal 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.080 in your mind's eye. Is there a police officer on 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:56.280 every corner keeping it safe. 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.880 You might not picture a police squad car out. 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:03.400 So what makes that neighborhood, say, the fact that nobody 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:06.320 needs anything? What is the point of crime? Now, granted 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:08.360 there's going to be greedy people, no matter what. That's 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:12.120 part of the human race. We all have either had 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:15.160 greedy moments or sometimes there's people who are just greedy 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:17.960 they want more than their fair share. We have people 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:21.960 who are they're violent people of the violence rights. 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:25.480 There are officers that are bad based actors or bad acts. 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:26.520 That's a human condition. 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:29.560 Yeah, human beings in general. There are some of us 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.960 who do not have good intentions for other human beings sadly. 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.520 Sure, sure, but that neighborhood, critically, that neighborhood that you 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:41.280 imagine wasn't safe because there's police everywhere. So the idea 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:44.400 that increasing police presence and putting them in bad neighborhoods 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:48.200 is going to somehow affect crime shows that you know 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:52.320 full well listening to us, you know full well that 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.840 that is not an effective strategy. And you could start 0:15:55.880 --> 0:16:00.320 with again the programs that you mentioned with healthcare, with 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:06.560 job opportunities, with access to todaycare, with access to fare, housing, 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:09.400 you know, et cetera, on and on, and once you 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:14.040 start asking, well, who's going to pay for these things, well, 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:18.680 I know a group that is actively harming this community, 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:21.800 that has way more money than they know what to 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.360 do with and you're thinking about it wrong. You're thinking 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:27.160 about public safety wrong. We can take the money from 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.880 these police, put it in a program to where we 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.360 don't need the police, and then have people do jobs 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:34.240 where they don't have to carry a murder weapon. I 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:39.200 got to imagine that at some point an officer has 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:42.320 to come to term with the fact that I'm carrying 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:47.080 a weapon only function is to end the life. This 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:50.080 is not I hope I never have to end the life. 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.280 I I if I lived one hundred years and never 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:53.480 had to end the life, that'll be better. 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:59.440 So here's the problem. I think the normal control officer, yeah, 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:03.200 the normal control No. No, I mean the normal human 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:08.280 thought would be that, right. It's the same with our military. 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:12.240 We are kind of sensitized to the idea that we 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:17.800 ship and fly over to other countries and murder people 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:22.880 because in whatever the given circumstance, they're the bad guy. 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:25.080 It's okay to murder the bad guy. 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:25.640 Yeah. 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:27.800 Our country has done a very good job of giving 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:31.280 our police officers a bad guy, so they are not thinking, 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:33.920 I hope I don't have to know there's a bad 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:36.960 guy that I need to do this too to protect 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:38.160 and serve. 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:41.720 Well, how about this. How about this, So once they've 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:45.000 become super duper indoctrinated and they're police first and not 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.160 people first, right, because we've had that conversation on the show. 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:51.879 That may be true. But what I'm talking about is 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:55.399 human beings who happen to have that occupation and have 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:58.959 not let's say, maybe they have not crossed over fully 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:01.520 into like I'm a cop even when I'm people. 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:04.240 I don't even I don't even mean in extreme cases though, right, 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:06.520 like you said, the type of person that's that's that 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:10.320 gravitates to that job even with the purest intentions of 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:14.600 serving and protecting. That idea has to be from something 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:16.320 protecting us from someone. 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:20.680 So how about this I have and this is this 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:24.399 is perhaps my mistake. I have a global view now 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:29.560 of police, as do you. You. I've been to I 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:33.560 couldn't even tell you how many countries around this planet 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:38.879 of ours, and I have been to all of fifty 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:43.120 of the states US states. So I've seen how that looks, 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:45.200 you know, in the same tactics and are sitting on 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:46.720 the highway of clocking and. 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:47.160 All this sort of stuff. 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:53.280 Right, But elsewhere in the world, recruitment tactics are very different. 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:59.560 You know, gun. The gun part of the job is very, 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:03.520 very very very secondary. The primary part of the job 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:07.920 is helping people, being a presence, and you know you're 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:11.840 on the way to you know, to the personnapping. If 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:15.080 you realize that there's a person, a woman crossing the 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:17.639 street and she needs help because she's in danger, you 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:19.800 might stop and help the women cross the street before 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:25.200 you continue after the personapper. You prioritize things versus over here. 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.639 If the personapper, we need to execute this person apper, 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:30.399 we need to, we need to take them down. We 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:32.760 needn't and this is bringing safety and justice. You know, 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:34.679 it's a different way of thinking about it, right. 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:41.120 I mean you hear Americans talk about nationalism, we talk 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:43.840 about it, and even the way we frame it, it's 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:46.960 false even in that sense, right, And those other countries 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:50.280 they see each other as countrymen. Yeah, okay, so citizen 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:54.639 first countries sure have this idea of actually protecting and 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:57.840 serving each other. We're all countrymen and women matter the 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:00.240 color of your skin, right, their country women and women first, 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.320 and then whatever needs to be. The specific description here 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:09.760 is absolutely different. You're black first, it's called African American. 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:14.679 You're black first. You're not countrymen first, you're not country 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:17.840 women first. And in a lot of cases, being black 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:21.679 means criminal, means bad, means enemy means the person that 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:24.040 I'm protecting everyone else from. So that's what I'm saying. 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:28.320 Even the purest of us has grown up in this 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:30.879 environment with the skin that looks just like Mineed, yours 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:34.280 have grown up in this environment. Yeah, our country has 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:37.840 made us the enemy before you, even before you even 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:40.520 go through the recruiting, before you go to academy, before 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:43.040 you learn what this job means. You know what I mean. 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:45.920 So yeah, and other countries where the ideas we want 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:49.280 these outcomes to not result in death, similar to the 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:52.719 way that other countries react to mass shootings. Okay, too 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:55.800 many of our of our fellow countrymen and women and 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:59.040 or children died on this day. This will never happen 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:01.200 again if we can help it. Let's change it now 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:03.960 everything we can to change it right now, right now. 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:10.040 Well, because again I have that global view. I've seen 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.800 how they how police move in Hong Kong, I've seen 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:14.679 how police move in New Zealand. I've seen out you know, 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:17.760 all different places around the world. One of the things 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:19.480 that I come back to on the show quite frequently. 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:22.479 Is that. I believe it's New Zealand where they have guns. 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:24.760 The officers have guns, but they keep it in the 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:27.480 trunk of their car. And it's not like they had 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:29.440 to keep it in the trunk of the car because 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:32.199 you know, they were out of pocket. And that's a 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:33.879 new strategy, a new compromise. They keep it in the 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:36.280 trunk of the car, same way you keep a jack 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:38.720 and a spare tire. Like it's like, yeah, just in 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:40.080 case you need it, Yeah, isn't it. 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:41.879 I don't. I'm not going to carry it with me. 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:42.320 It's heavy. 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:44.680 I'm not gonna kill anybody kills what you know what 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:46.920 I mean, it's it's just crazy to think that way. 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:51.919 But over here again because we fully bought in because 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:56.840 of copaganda since Dragnet hit the TV shows and collaboration 0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:59.119 with the LAPD and they were able to design the 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:01.000 episodes and the cop are always the good guys and 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:03.199 the bad guys were always doing this blah blah blah, 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:07.320 and really Taylor made Taylor make a narrative for the 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:11.920 viewing public that has us seeing police as the super 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:16.159 duper ultimate heroes and they're like almost these superhuman creatures 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:18.840 that never make mistakes. I know that in the front 0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:21.680 of your mind you can conceive of people making mistakes 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:24.840 as officers. But the fact is is that we've given 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:30.160 them so much freedom that their mistakes we don't even 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:33.360 question it as two free Yeah exactly, but you. 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:38.520 Teased a positive, exactly case study for exactly so. 0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:43.600 Community policing, community policing. This comes from the New York Times. 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:46.439 What happened when a Brooklyn neighborhood policed itself? Okay, this 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:49.080 is one of the ideas that comes from defunding the police. Right, 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:52.919 we can still have officers, but community policing is a 0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:54.320 way to rethink policing. 0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:56.960 So I'll read and a side note. 0:22:56.960 --> 0:23:02.080