1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from my Heart Radio. Hey, then, 2 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm 3 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,639 Speaker 1: an executive producer with I Heart Radio and how the 4 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: Tech Area. It's time for a tech Stuff classic episode. 5 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: This episode originally published on August third, two thou fifteen. 6 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 1: It is titled tech in the post Apocalyptic World, Part One, 7 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: and Joe McCormick of Stuff to Blow Your Mind Fame 8 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: joined me for this episode where we talk about what 9 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: tech will look like. Should you know the apocalypse actually happened? 10 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: This was before the pandemic, y'all. We didn't really have 11 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: an idea of what an apocalypse was gonna be. And 12 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: now we all know it mostly involves watching a lot 13 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: of Netflix and trying to, you know, stay home and 14 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: wear masks whenever we have to go out. But back 15 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: then we didn't have any idea. So let's listen in. 16 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: Thank you for having me on to day, Jonathan, especially 17 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: to talk about this really exciting topic, Clayton Utter breakdown 18 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: of society. Yeah. Okay, So first, Joe, before I get 19 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: into the listener request that prompted this entire episode, I 20 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: should let you know that the previous episodes that went 21 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: up and we're just recorded were with Ben Bolin about 22 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: the Manhattan Project, so it tells nicely into this one. Um. 23 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: So the this discussion actually comes to us because a listener, 24 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: Benjamin G. McCall on Twitter's wrote to us and said, 25 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: after watching Mad Max, I'm wondering what tech would be 26 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: viable in a post apocalyptic world, what which tech would 27 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: be jerry rigged? So really, this is such a huge topic. 28 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: We could end up having discussions about all sorts of 29 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: different doomsday scenarios. Yeah, I know. One of the options 30 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: we talked about for this episode was just coming up 31 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: with a list of like the maybe I don't know, 32 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: weird tech hacks you could make, yeah, in a post 33 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: apocalyptic scenario. But then we realized, like, uh, you know, 34 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,119 Speaker 1: we're not the inventors of the waste land, right, Yeah. 35 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: There there are so many different science fiction stories out 36 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: there that cover this sort of material that two to 37 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: kind of. I mean, we could have, I guess gone 38 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: through each one and graded it on a plausibility scale, 39 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: but that would have taken forever to sure. But we 40 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: figured maybe a better approach would be to say, Okay, 41 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: let's imagine there's a scenario that has represented a technological apocalypse. 42 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: Suddenly all of the technology that sustains our lives that 43 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: usually just runs in the background and keeps us happy 44 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: without us even noticing what it does for us. What 45 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 1: if all that went away? Yeah, so we're not so 46 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: much focusing on specific scenarios. We will some of them 47 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: will come into play because they factor into, uh, the 48 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: contingencies we might we might use in the case of 49 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: a catastrophic failure of technology, Like there could be somewhere 50 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 1: you say, hey, what if we use blah blah blah. 51 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: So well, if the reason for the catastrophe he was 52 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: this blah blah blah, would not work. We'll get into that. 53 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: But but just some general catastrophes that that could be 54 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: the ones that lead into this nuclear war would be 55 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: a big one. Right, so that people always want to say, 56 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: zombie attack, zombie attack. Okay, so some sort of pandemic 57 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: would be a possibility, right, The more realistic version of 58 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: and pandemics could end up being something that is directly 59 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 1: affecting people, or could be indirectly affecting by killing off 60 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: let's say, crops or livestock, anything like that that could 61 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: lead to famine obviously, could also capitulate into technological failures 62 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: sure like is imagined in the movie Interstellar, where they 63 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: talk about the idea that there's like crop blight getting 64 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: all of their food supply. Yea, So in that case, 65 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: you could end up having a vast reduction of the 66 00:03:55,000 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: population on Earth, which in turn would cause technological issues. Uh, 67 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: there are a lot of other ones to super Volcanic 68 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: eruption could potentially at least for leading to catastrophic climate change. 69 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: Really anything that leads to catastrophic climate change, So really 70 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: just waiting around right. Sadly, I wish that weren't the case, 71 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: but uh so, there are a lot of different scenarios 72 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: that could lead to this, and and we've got a 73 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: whole bunch of different variations of that in literature. And 74 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: at the end of this episode, Joe and I are 75 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: going to talk about our favorite post apocalyptic stories and scenarios. Uh. 76 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: The reason why I'm putting it at the end is 77 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: so that we have something wonderful to look forward to 78 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: on our journey through terror. But honestly, my favorite ones 79 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: are kind of depressing, so so are mine. It's fine, 80 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 1: but I mean it's kind of hard to have an 81 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 1: upbeat post apocalyptic scenario. I promise you, folks, you're at 82 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: least gonna hear us talk about Zardas. Yes, Czar does. 83 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: But okay, what's the first thing that we need to 84 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: talk about? The big tune in the basket, as I 85 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: might say from I think I said that recently. I'm 86 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 1: pretty sure that was a forward thinking but I'm not 87 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: entirely certain. But out of the basket, it's power. Yeah, 88 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: the power grid. Yeah, the power grid where our energy 89 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: comes from, because almost everything that sustains their life depends 90 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: on it. Yeah, and on some form or another, If 91 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: not directly, then indirectly. Correct. So, yeah, the power grid 92 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: is the big one. Let's say that whatever the catastrophe 93 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: is has hit the power grid, and we're largely going 94 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 1: to be focusing on the United States because that's where 95 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 1: Joe and I live. But power grids across the world 96 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: have varying degrees of vulnerability. Many of them are very old. 97 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 1: There are elements of the United States power grid that 98 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: date back to the late nineteenth century. Yeah. In fact, 99 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: our current power grid is not there. Oh man, I 100 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: hate it when that happens. Our press temporary power grid 101 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 1: is not necessarily in the best of shape. No, this 102 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: could come as a rude awakening to some people. Yeah, 103 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,559 Speaker 1: So here's here's the deal. First of all, the power 104 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: grid is incredibly complex. We talk about it as if 105 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: it's this big, united thing, but really it's a collection 106 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: of lots of smaller things. So, in most basic terms, 107 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: how does it work? All? Right, most basic terms, if 108 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 1: you want to look at kind of the microcosm, the 109 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: individual element that makes up the power grid, you're looking 110 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: at a power plant, uh, something that is generating electricity 111 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 1: through some means. There are a lot of different versions 112 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: of this. There are coal fired power plants that use 113 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: coal to generate heat, turns water into steam. Steam turns 114 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 1: a turbine that's what generates the electricity. Uh. Have a 115 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: hydro electric plant hydro electric that's using the power of 116 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 1: water moving turbines in a similar fashion, there are wind 117 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 1: turbines that use wind to do that. Solar generation where 118 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: you're you're you're really just converting solar power into electricity. 119 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: That's one of the few that doesn't require steam or 120 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: or turbine. Yeah. You've got, of course, nuclear power, which 121 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: is really like coal fired on steroids, except it's using 122 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: obviously nuclear fuel, not burning coal. No smoke, No smoke, 123 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: there's lots of steam. Uh. Yeah, if you're if you 124 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: are have designed it properly, it's perfectly safe. At least 125 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: the operation is the nuclear fuel and the waste generated 126 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: is something else that is an issue, but we're not 127 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: going to go into that because it's just it's it's 128 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: a side issue to what we're talking about today. Though, 129 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: if you are interested in that, we did a couple 130 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: of episodes before thinking about that some time last year. Yeah, 131 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: those were a lot of fun, So definitely recommend us. 132 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: One might be a word to describe how we h, well, 133 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: it was fun nuclear ways fun in the sense of 134 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: really trying to wrap your brain around something that's truly complicated, 135 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: not just the technology but the political and cultural side 136 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: of it. Uh. Then you also have things like, um not, 137 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: there's there's natural gas uh. And there's also oil power 138 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: power plants, power plants that rely on oil belthough that's 139 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: a very small percentage of the ones that are used 140 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: here in the United States. So you've got these power plants. 141 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: They generate the electricity a the the electricity is sent 142 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: through a transformer which steps up the voltage The reason 143 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: for this is that the higher voltages will transmit over 144 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: a greater distance with less loss of energy. Right, so 145 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: this's going to be alternating current going out through all 146 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: of the wires of the grid to the neighborhood. Direct 147 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: current will not work in a transformer. You have to 148 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: use alternating current. So yeah, it steps up the power 149 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: you have. You have different types of lines. There's a 150 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: distribution power line that is pretty heavy duty. That's what 151 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: carries the super high voltage that gets stepped down by 152 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: a different type of transformer for the power lines that 153 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: you typically see in the neighborhood. So like the telephone 154 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: polls that have the power lines um uh dangling from them, 155 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: particularly on a hot George today. Uh, those are those 156 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: have been stepped down from the major transmission lines. There's 157 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: another transformer that will step that power down again for 158 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: it goes into a building or a home or whatever 159 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 1: to be the proper voltage for us here. Uh. So 160 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: that's your basic setup, right. That's and the power grid 161 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: is made up of lots of these. By the way, 162 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: these power plants are run by different organizations, different entities, 163 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: so it's not all a unified thing here in the 164 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: United states, and not just like the government or something 165 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: privately owned power generation company. It's not like the monopoly 166 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: board where you just you land on the utility and 167 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: you own it and that's all of it. It's not 168 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 1: the way it works. So it's the real monopoly. You 169 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: should be able to win monopoly as soon as you 170 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: buy electric, right like exactly like, hey, do you want 171 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: power in your hotel? Guess at buddy, I am it. 172 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: So as it turns out, that's you know, that's not 173 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: the case. There are all these different entities across the 174 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: power grid that and that generate power, and they're doing 175 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: it with different types of hardware and software, which makes 176 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 1: it even more complicated. And we'll talk about that a 177 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: little bit when we get into cybersecurity. So um. Because 178 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: of this complexity, there are lots of potential points of failure. Uh. 179 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: And the complexity both cushions the power grid from failure 180 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: and also is vulnerable to to further failure. It all 181 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,559 Speaker 1: depends upon the actual conditions that exist at any given time, right. 182 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: I guess in the best case scenarios, all of the 183 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: interconnectedness of it would mean in some cases you have 184 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 1: some degree of redundancy. Yeah, It's kind of like if 185 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: you think about the Internet, how if a a single 186 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:40,559 Speaker 1: computer goes down, traffic can route around it. The power 187 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,559 Speaker 1: grids kind of like that. But depending upon where you are, 188 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: you may, you know, if a power plant goes offline 189 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,079 Speaker 1: for whatever reasons, if it is quote unquote tripped, which 190 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: means that it turns off essentially for any amount of time, 191 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: you may be without power until it's returned to service. Uh. 192 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: Other area as might be able to receive power through 193 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: rerouting or whatever. But the goal, of course, is to 194 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: create a smart grid that can respond to those issues 195 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: in real time. But the reality is we do not 196 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 1: have a truly smart grid throughout the United States. It's 197 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,319 Speaker 1: not a unified system like that. Here's an interesting fact 198 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: I'm seeing in the notes that I wasn't aware of before. 199 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: So we've got three interconnected grids in the United States. 200 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: That's correct. I didn't know about this. Yeah, the Eastern Interconnection, 201 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: which you would think at first, Oh, that's gonna be 202 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 1: the East coast, right, Well, yes, it's the East coast 203 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: all the way out to the Rocky Mountains. Uh. Yeah, 204 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: that's the Eastern Interconnection. It's a large part of the 205 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: nation and then you've got the Western Interconnection, which is 206 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: the Rocky Mountains to the Pacific. And then you've got 207 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: the Texas Interconnected System which covers Texas. Big shock there. 208 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: So uh, I don't mean that in that electricity sense either, 209 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: So I didn't mean to, but yes, you've got these 210 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: three larger interconnected grids that collectively make the power grid 211 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: of the United States. We'll be back with more of 212 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: this classic episode of tech stuff after this quick break. 213 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: There are two related concepts when it comes to power 214 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: grids that we want to talk about. There's reliability and 215 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: there's resiliency. So reliability is how consistent is that power grid, 216 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: How frequently are there any interruptions in power? The fewer, 217 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: the more reliable, obviously, so if you're having frequent brown outs, 218 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: that's not reliable. No, it's not reliable. It would be 219 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: rough to uh, and obviously we have had periods of 220 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: that in the history of the United States and in 221 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: different regions. Then there's resiliency, which refers to the power 222 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: grid's ability to withstand adverse effects like solar flare activity 223 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: or severe weather or you know, an apocalyptic scenario like 224 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: if an e MP went off. By the way, if 225 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: any MP goes off electromne atic pulse, that's what that 226 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,719 Speaker 1: stands for. Uh, there's not I don't think there's a 227 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: power grid on the world that is resilient enough to 228 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: withstand a truly powerful electromagnetic pulse. UM. Also, the interesting 229 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: thing with those is that you know, you hear about these, 230 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: like especially in movies. You'll see uh like Oceans eleven 231 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: uses an e MP at one point to knock out 232 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 1: the security system of casino because if you're gonna do it, 233 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: this will go a whole long Um. Then they get 234 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: back outside somehow. Yeah. Yeah, at any well, you know, hey, 235 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: it's a movie. But at any way, the the e 236 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: m p s, depending upon how powerful they are, they 237 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: and how close you are to the pulse. Uh, that 238 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: can affect all sorts of levels of electronics. Although generally speaking, 239 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: the larger the system, the more vulnerable it is, because 240 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: the more more likely it will have current running through 241 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: it as a result of this electromagnetic pulse. It's the 242 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: same principle that's affecting the transformers. It's just imagine that 243 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: it's this enormous pulse that isn't a controlled element of 244 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: the power grid. So uh, most e MPs would probably 245 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: affect large systems like the power grid, but leave smaller 246 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 1: stuff like the The less complicated and smaller it is, 247 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: the less likely it's going to be directly affected by 248 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: the e mph So your battery operated stuff might work 249 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: for a while, at least until the batteries run out, 250 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: even in the face of an MP unless you happen 251 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: to be really close to where the pulse goes off. Alright, 252 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: So resiliency and reliability to very important concepts. I read 253 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: a report and boy was this report card? It was 254 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: a report card. Yeah, The American Society of Civil Engineers 255 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: released a report card that graded the United States on 256 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: various elements of its infrastructure. And this came out in 257 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen. The whole thing is available online. It's 258 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: a very interactive site that will depress you if you 259 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: live in the United States because overall US got a 260 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: D plus and that was for everything. That included things 261 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: like not just electricity and energy, but drinking water bridges, 262 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: Damn's hazardous waste handling, and aviation were also in there. Um, 263 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: none of the grades were great. So what's are like 264 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: GYM class grade that's waiting it up? Oh? Right, Um, yeah, 265 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: some of them are a little better than others. Actually, 266 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: D plus being the average the g p A. That's 267 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: also what we got for energy. So it's still a 268 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: failing grade, but it's one of the higher ones. I mean, like, 269 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: it's not a D, like are I think? I think 270 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: Bridges got a D. So like, so what you're telling 271 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: me is I really need to charge my cell phone 272 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: before the zombies attack, and you really need to make 273 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: sure your your your commute home doesn't go over Bridges. Um. Yeah, 274 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: they also, by the way, grade at individual states. Not 275 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: every state got a grade, but Georgia did. We gotta ce. 276 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: Oh so that's better than average, Yeah, we we it's 277 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: better than the average score for the United States. By 278 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: the way, in case you are unfamiliar with this grading score, 279 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: the scale of grading. Uh, the school's not used that anymore, 280 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: not not not universally, and we have listeners from all 281 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: over the world. So this would be a grade system 282 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: that typically goes A, B and C would be the 283 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: passing grades. See being average, B being good, and A 284 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: being superior. Then you have D, which is technically a 285 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: failing grade, and you've got plus and minus as well. 286 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: So on the high side. D plus would be oh, 287 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: you almost passed, but you didn't. Uh. I don't know 288 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: if anyone who has ever used E, but F means fail. 289 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: I thought a D was just a shameful passing grade. 290 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: I always thought of C as well. Maybe, but I 291 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: always thought C was passing, like C minus was the 292 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: for me, the threshold of passing. Essentially, that was the 293 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: equivalent if you looked at it percentiles A seventy. Folks 294 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: right in and let us know what you think about 295 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: D S. Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure it's a failing grade, 296 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: but I could be wrong. F is outright fail. D 297 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 1: is like on the cusp um. So maybe I guess 298 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: if you're a glass half full kind of guy, you 299 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: might say that D is a passing grade D plus 300 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: for energy. Energy, by the way, was not just the 301 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: power grid. It was all the elements of energy in 302 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 1: the United States, but they did focus quite a bit 303 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: on the power grid. They reported the aging infrastructure of 304 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: the power grid as a huge problem, some of it 305 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 1: again dating all the way back to the late eighteen hundreds, 306 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: so it's pretty old. Um. And they also said that 307 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: they these older facilities in particular are uh, they're prone 308 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: for failure for things like just the fact that it's 309 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: such an aging infrastructure. Uh, they're not very good at handling, uh, 310 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: adverse conditions like weather events or solar flares, that sort 311 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: of stuff. And they said that, uh, the significant power 312 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 1: outages in general are on the rise. They said there 313 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: were seventy six recorded significant power outages. They didn't define 314 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 1: what significant means in the stuff I was reading, so 315 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 1: I'm not sure exactly what that refers to. But seventy 316 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: six of them in two thousand seven and three hundred 317 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: seven of them in two thousand eleven. So it's a 318 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 1: problem that is getting worse. So that's that's an issue. 319 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: But they also had some less awful news in it. 320 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: So they said that the United States is having a 321 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: very slow growth in population in general. The rate of 322 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: increases is fairly low when it comes to the need 323 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 1: for electricity. So in other words, our population isn't growing 324 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: so quickly that our need for electricity is outpacing our 325 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 1: ability to generate electricity. And in fact, there probably won't 326 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: be a significant issue until around And that's that's saying 327 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: that we don't we haven't invested in our ability to 328 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: generate electricity. They of course very strongly advocate that we 329 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: should be investing in that, both in the the power 330 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: generation or the electricity generation and the transmission of electricity. 331 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: All right, well, let's look at one particular type of 332 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: threat to our energy infrastructure. How about a cyber attack. Yeah, 333 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: we've talked about this on tech stuff quite a few times. Uh, 334 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: I mean, could foreign hackers just shut down the United 335 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 1: States with some with some smart malicious computer people, Probably 336 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 1: not the United States, but certainly elements within the United 337 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: States very targeted ones. Yes, because this is not a 338 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: surprise we have discovered we being people in the United States, 339 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: not myself in particular, UM, that there are elements of code, 340 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: malicious code within several different facilities throughout the United States, 341 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: within our our power grid infrastructure. UM a lot a 342 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 1: lot of them originating from China, some from Russia. But 343 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: there are elements of code that clear really have been 344 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: planted there, possibly as a way to weed out vulnerabilities 345 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, in the effort to exploit them 346 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: in some potential future. So it's not necessarily the case 347 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: that these are all going to shut off on the 348 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: same day. In fact, that's probably not going to happen. 349 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 1: And it's largely because of what I talked about earlier, 350 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 1: the fact that the power grid is actually made up 351 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: of all this diverse you know, hardware and software run 352 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 1: by different organizations. It means that there's not a unified 353 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: means of shutting everything down, so any attacks would probably 354 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: be very specific, and people know to look out for 355 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 1: this stuff now, So there's there's there might be individual 356 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: utilities that are lagging behind because they're not paying enough 357 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: attention to this problem. But it's not a universal issue. 358 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: So in other words, it's kind of patchwork, right. You 359 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: You may be that the target you've selected is really vulnerable, 360 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: but also means that the effects are going to be 361 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: localized to that area. You can't you can't say like, oh, 362 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: he has a big red switch and when we push 363 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: it that lights go out. It's not gonna be like that. Also, 364 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,640 Speaker 1: I don't know why I would, Well, they're actually Austrian, 365 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: but it is just because that's where I go for 366 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: the my mad scientist. It is the best mad scientist 367 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: accent to our German or Austrian listeners, no or to 368 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: our Russian ones who who really agree that the Russian 369 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: mad scientists is the best one. I mean, there's they 370 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: all have their charms, is what I'm getting at. Well, 371 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: you know, one possibility that strikes me is you're saying 372 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 1: that a cyber attack could potentially target a localized facility 373 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: or small subsection of infrastructure, though there's always the possibility 374 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 1: that by doing so they could trigger chains of larger events. Yes, 375 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: and this is where you have to start taking into 376 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: consideration the specific conditions around that localized area. So is 377 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: this the scenario people have actually imagined, like a sort 378 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: of a cascading series of problems that get bigger and 379 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 1: bigger with infrastructure failure. It absolutely is. Yeah. There have 380 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 1: been studies that have looked at specific UH systems that 381 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: have centralized critical nodes, which would be very much similar 382 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: to the United States power grid UH. And if you 383 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: were to target one of those important critical nodes and 384 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 1: take it down, there's the potential to have this cascading 385 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 1: domino effect where it would the the the loss of 386 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: that part of the power grid would put such a 387 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: burden on the surrounding ones that they too could fail, 388 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 1: which could potentially cause others to fail as well. It 389 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: might not be a nationwide outage, but it might be 390 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 1: much more significant than that one utility going down. Um, 391 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: for that to happen, generally speaking, you have to have 392 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: other elements that are at play. It's it's generally understood 393 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: or believe that if it's an average day that probably 394 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 1: it would just be the localized utility that was affected. 395 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: But if other issues, like if it was at a 396 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:21,199 Speaker 1: peak demand when other neighboring utilities were working overtime to 397 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: supply power, because just because the way that particular day 398 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: is unfolding, then you might have a different situation on 399 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: your hands. I have to imagine somebody has tried to 400 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: simulate this. There's been a lot of interesting simulations that 401 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: I looked into, most of which we're saying, hey, it's 402 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: not as bad as we think unless and it's always 403 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: that lesson like you're like, I guess, I guess if 404 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: if things are aligned just right or just really really wrong, 405 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: then it could be really bad. In fact, in August 406 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen, there was an article in Nature of 407 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 1: Physics where scientists from the United States and Israel asserted 408 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: that a cascading failure in the system it ends on 409 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: those few critical elements, but they pretty much guarantee that 410 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 1: at some point it will happen. And this, by the way, 411 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily mean that there was an attack. I mean, 412 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: an attack could be the precipitating event that causes us. 413 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: But it could just be a failure. It could be 414 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 1: a particular power plant in a grid fails and it 415 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: and conditions just happen to be right for other facilities 416 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,199 Speaker 1: to fail as a result of that, and then you 417 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 1: have a rolling blackout that could be pretty huge. Um 418 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: or it could be a failure due to some other event, 419 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: like a solar flare, which causes a similar event to 420 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 1: an e MP going off. It's not good. Well, maybe 421 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: we should get back into the possibility of an MP 422 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: solar flare, you know, any one of these high energy 423 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: events that can sort of fry the components of our 424 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 1: electricity infrastructure. Yeah, this is super bad news. Like, this 425 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: is stuff where it's not just that it shuts down 426 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: the power, it does damage to the infrast structure. Uh. 427 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: And again, one of the other issues about this complexity 428 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: we were talking about is you don't always necessarily know 429 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: where the problem is ultimately or which elements of your 430 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: infrastructure are the ones that were damaged by this activity. 431 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: Stay tuned for the exciting conclusion of this text stuff 432 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: classic episode right after we take this break. So, if 433 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: it's a significant solar flare that shuts down power in 434 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: an area, you may have to do some really extensive 435 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 1: testing to figure out which elements need to be repaired 436 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: or replaced. In the meantime, you've got people who are 437 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: without power. Not only are they without power, that a 438 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 1: lot of them are going to be without any means 439 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: of receiving communication to hear what the status is. And 440 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: the longer that goes, the worst things are going to get. 441 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 1: Right Like like people, some people will react, all right, 442 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: you they might hunker down or whatever. Some people might panic. Uh. 443 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 1: You also have other elements at play that are going 444 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: to continue whether you've been able to communicate or not, 445 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 1: things like hospitals having to treat patients. I mean, there 446 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: are some major issues that have to be addressed. And 447 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: meanwhile you're scrambling to try and fix a broken system 448 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: and you don't necessarily know where the problem is. That's 449 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: the real danger with these these uh events that would 450 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:32,199 Speaker 1: overload a power of grid by putting a huge amount 451 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: of electricity through a system that wasn't prepared to handle it. 452 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: Um and there's not a whole lot you can do 453 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: to prevent that. I mean, like the these are events 454 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: that are outside of our control. The best you can 455 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 1: do is is make your system as robust as possible 456 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: so that it can resist electromagnetic interference, but actually involved 457 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean really mostly in all of 458 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:05,479 Speaker 1: separating UH elements out into micro grids, that's right. One 459 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: of the things we could do is instead of having 460 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:12,479 Speaker 1: these giant interconnected power grids UH, concentrate and create an 461 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: infrastructure that has more micro grids that are only serving 462 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: a small region. They can be interconnected with other systems still, 463 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 1: but they're not dependent upon them. They're not as interconnected 464 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 1: as the current systems are. That way, if a local 465 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: event knocks out a few systems, they are not going 466 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: to pull down surrounding neighboring systems. In this cascading effect, 467 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: it isolates the problem, which means that you can devote 468 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: more attention to solving a localized issue than you would 469 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: if it were a general nationwide problem. A nationwide blackout 470 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: would be catastrophic. Like you want to talk about post apocalyptic. Sure, 471 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,439 Speaker 1: you might argue that it's not an apocalypse, but a 472 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: nationwide blackout would cause enormous problems. Well, yeah, we can 473 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: I guess talk more about the projected consequences of that 474 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,679 Speaker 1: in a bit. But yeah, how about the zombie attack scenario? 475 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,679 Speaker 1: People always want to know about this. I have to 476 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: kind of remind people sometimes that like, that's not gonna 477 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: happen because zombies are sort of physically impossible. But you 478 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: could have something like a zombie sort of problem. You 479 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 1: could just basically have a pandemic, really really bad uh 480 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: infection that spreads throughout the population. So in this case, 481 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: we're looking at a scenario where it's not necessarily physical 482 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: damage to the infrastructure, right, It's it's a it's a 483 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: dramatic reduction and human population where you just don't have 484 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: the people to run the systems anymore. Right. So, so 485 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: let's say that you've got um really terrible conditions where 486 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: the people who would be running the power plants and 487 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: the various utilities mostly have been wiped out, so there 488 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: are very few of them left, um, along with giant 489 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: swaths of the population in general. So how long would 490 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: you have electricity? You are one of the lucky survivors 491 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:11,239 Speaker 1: zombie apocalypse. Yeah, Rick Grimes has not made it over 492 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: to your house yet, so you're still on your own. 493 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: How long could you expect to continue to have electricity? Well, 494 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: this largely depends upon what style of power plant is 495 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: providing electricity to your home and whether or not your 496 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: home is on the grid. Now I'm assuming your home 497 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: is on the grid. If you have managed to create 498 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: an off the grid power scenario, you are in way 499 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: better shape as far as how long your electricity is 500 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: gonna last, but at least for the short term. But 501 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: let's say that you are connected to the grid. Well, 502 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: if you are getting your electricity from a coal fired 503 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: power plant, which by the way, makes up the vast 504 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: majority of power plants in the United States, more than 505 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: sixty percent, I believe our coal fired power plants, Uh, 506 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: you would probably have electricity for the event has happened 507 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: people have been wiped out. For maybe well to eighteen 508 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: hours after that event, you would have electricity. That's That's 509 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: about how long the coal firing power plants would probably 510 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: operate at their best before tripping before shutting down. Automatically. Uh, 511 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: that's no, and that's because there's no there are no 512 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: humans there to keep the operation moving. Because even with automation, 513 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: there are things that require human attention. An alarm will 514 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: go off and you'll look, and it may not be 515 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: that it's like a catastrophic failure. It could be something 516 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: like you need to vent some ash out of the system, 517 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: and if you don't do it, then ah, it'll trip. 518 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: It'll say all right, well this will get to unsafe levels, 519 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: so we're shutting down. Um, and it's one of those 520 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 1: I need an adult. Yeah, and all it would take 521 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: is to vent it. It's not a it's not otherwise 522 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: a huge deal. It's not like it's leading to a 523 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: catastrophic failure. But it's one of those systems that's put 524 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: in place for safety that if it's not monitored and 525 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: acted upon, the plant will shut off. We need get 526 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: some robots in those plans. Yeah, and well, there's actually 527 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: been some people who have suggested that if this were 528 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: an event where it was more gradual, like it's not 529 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: a sudden thing where humanity disappears. If it were more gradual, 530 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: then you might be able to alter the system so 531 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: that some alerts don't trigger an automatic shutdown anymore. Because 532 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: you prioritize what what is the most important of the alerts, 533 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: and which ones can we absolutely not ignore and we 534 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: have to respond to anything else. The power plant just 535 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: keeps on going until it can't go anymore. Okay, so 536 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: is natural gas is going to be pretty much along 537 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: the same lines as coal kind of um so, Cole, 538 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: here's the other issue with coal. You only have a 539 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: certain amount of coal stored ray to go, and once 540 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: that's gone, if you don't have people pushing bulldozers to 541 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: push more coal into the system, you're out of fuel. 542 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 1: So even if somehow magically the coal power plant works perfectly, 543 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: you burn out of coal within a day. Natural gas 544 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: is a little better. UH. You will essentially continue to 545 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: get natural gas to feed into the power plant as 546 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: long as the pressure inside the pipelines remains constant. But 547 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: that's a big if. I mean, any any problem that 548 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: would trigger one of those UH systems to go into 549 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: shut down mode would stop a natural gas power plant 550 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: from operating. So you might go a couple of days 551 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: maybe if if everything went well, like if there were 552 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: no nothing was messing with the lines and no errors happened. Well, 553 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that Part one. Next week we 554 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: will continue with part two, and clearly at the very 555 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: beginning of this episode, I was joking about the pandemic 556 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: being close to an apocalypse. It was bad, don't get 557 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: me wrong, but I don't think we can go so 558 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: far as to call it a true apocalypse. UM thankfully, 559 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: but you know, keep staying safe out there, be healthy, 560 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 1: be well. If you have suggestions for topics I should 561 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 1: cover in future episodes of tech Stuff, reach out to 562 00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: me on Twitter. The handle for the show is tech 563 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: Stuff H s W and I'll talk to you again. 564 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: Release it Yeah. Text Stuff is an I Heart Radio production. 565 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the i 566 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 567 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: your favorite shows,