WEBVTT - Are Pigeons Smarter Than They Look? 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:06.240 Welcome to Part Time Genius, the production of I Heart Radio. 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:13.440 I guess what will? What's that mango? Did you hear 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:15.880 about that pigeon that's sold at auction for over a 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:18.439 million bucks? You know, I know you may find this surprising, 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:20.720 but I actually don't keep up with the world of 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:24.439 pigeon auctions. But seriously, that did somebody actually pay a 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.440 million dollars for a pigeon? It's actually slightly better than that. 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:30.640 Somebody paid one point four million dollars for a pigeon, 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:33.200 and they did it on this site. It's an auction 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:37.360 site called PIPPA, which is short for Pigeon Paradise, which 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:39.640 almost makes all of this better. But to be fair, 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:44.120 this was no ordinary bird. This high priced Belgian pigeon 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:48.200 is actually an esteemed champion racer and his name is Armando. 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:52.400 He's five years old. He's widely considered the best of 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.320 the best long distance pigeons in the world. So for 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:57.760 the buyer, having a champion bird as young as Armando 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:00.000 means plenty of chances to breed him and to hopefully 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.320 pass on his traits to future flyers. You know, I 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:05.039 actually don't think I realized that investing in pigeons could 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:07.319 be this lucrative. I know you should have got into 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.800 it years ago. Kid. Uh, most of us don't give 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:12.840 pigeons nearly as much credit as they deserve. I mean, 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:14.600 I mean, the ones we're used to seeing can look 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:17.800 drab or dirty. But the truth is, pigeons are exceptionally 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:20.440 smart animals and they've been using that brain power for 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:23.679 the good of mankind for thousands of years. So in 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:25.640 light of that, I thought we could use today's episode 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:28.760 to give pigeons their due finally, from their roles and 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:32.280 scientific breakthroughs to all the times they delivered mail for us. 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:47.400 So there's a lot to cover. Let's dive in. Y 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.120 Hey their podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:01.560 Will Pearson and always I'm joined by my good friend 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:04.360 Mangesh Ticketer And on the other side of that soundproof 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:08.480 glass showing off his dance skills by doing the Kuku pigeon. 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:11.600 That's our friends and producer Tristan McNeil. And I have 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:14.320 to say Burt may have invented this dance and may 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.079 have made it famous on Sesame Street back in the seventies. 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:19.920 I think it was, but Tristan I don't know about you, Maga. 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:22.520 I feel like he's perfected it. He really has, you know, 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:24.880 gave actually sent me some research on this on doing 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:27.280 the pigeon And apparently in the original opening, Burt is 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.400 just hanging out watching home movies of pigeons projected on 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:32.960 his wall, and then a few seconds into the footage, 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:35.800 he tells the viewer, I love pigeons more than anything 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.880 else in the world besides oatmeal. And then he busts 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:42.040 out doing this whole choreograph, dancing and routine and and 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:45.320 I just remember any of that, but it sounds so good. Well, 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:48.080 I can't speak to his oatmeal obsession, but Bert's right 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:51.000 about pigeons. I mean, they are much cooler than we think. 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:53.440 Just as an example, I was reading this week that 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:59.320 pigeons are actually capable of understanding abstract concepts including space 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:01.680 and time. Are you with me on this? And it's 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.359 pretty interesting, So it's definitely not something that you'd guessed 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:06.760 just by looking at them. But a couple of years back, 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:08.920 there was this team of scientists at the University of 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.880 Iowa that showed just how smart pigeons really are. So 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:15.360 the team tested a group of pigeons by placing them 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:18.080 in front of computer screens, and then they would show 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.280 them one of two lines, either this six centimeter line 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:24.720 or a centimeter line, and each of the lines was 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:28.000 paired with its own symbol, So anytime the pigeons saw 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:30.520 a line, they were supposed to pick the symbol that 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:33.960 corresponded with the correct length. So whenever the birds got 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:36.040 it right, the scientists fed them this treat is a 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.160 way to reinforce that they had chosen, you know, the 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:41.200 correct answer on this, which shows that pigeons can tell 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.040 the difference between different line lens. But you said pigeons 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:46.520 perceived time as well, right, Yeah, So this is actually 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:49.640 where things get really interesting, because the scientists tested the 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.360 pigeons not only on the length of the lines, but 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:55.440 also on how long they were displayed for, so either 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.760 two seconds or eight seconds, and the results showed that 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:02.080 pigeons connect the incepts of space and time in this 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:05.400 really interesting way. So whenever the birds saw a short 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.840 line displayed for eight seconds, they would pick the symbol miant. 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:12.000 For a long line, because the line had been displayed 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.640 for a longer period of time, the pigeons actually judged 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:17.800 it to be longer in length. Than it really was. 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:20.120 And this way of thinking also persisted when the birds 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:22.960 were tested on long lines being displayed. So anytime the 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:26.280 pigeons saw a long line displayed for just two seconds, 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:29.680 they would pack the symbol mint for an eight second duration. 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:32.640 Because the line was longer in length, the pigeons thought 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.440 it existed for a greater amount of time. So that 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:38.640 would mean pigeons actually perceived time in relation to space, right, 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:40.960 which is what humans do, like using the number of 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.440 people in the line to gauge how long a weight 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:46.479 might be, for instance. Yeah, that's exactly right, and studies 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:49.120 have shown that elephants and a few other primates tend 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:52.080 to connect these concepts as well. The only thing weird 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:54.400 here is that pigeons actually lacked the part of the 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:58.159 brain that processes space and time that other animals have. 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:01.960 So pigeons are making these same abstract connections that we are, 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.440 but they're doing so through some other method that we 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:07.279 actually haven't figured out yet, which is pretty amazing. It 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:09.120 actually reminds me of this study I read about a 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:14.040 while back where this Japanese psychologist who's named Shigeru Watanabe, 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:17.200 he trained a bunch of pigeons to distinguish between paintings 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:20.320 done by Picasso and one's done by Monet, and the 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.159 birds got so good at recognizing the two different styles 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:25.919 that they could even sort out works of Cubism and 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:28.960 Impressionism done by other artists. I mean, it kind of 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:31.359 makes you wonder if they preferred one style over the 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:34.279 other when they were looking. I mean, it's funny because 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.600 the same researcher later conducted a different pigeon experiment where 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:39.599 he trained a group of them to judge the artwork 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.720 of elementary students. And apparently he showed the birds two 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.599 dozen paintings made by students in Tokyo, and he taught 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.040 the pigeons which of the paintings could be considered good 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:50.640 and which one should be labeled bad. I mean he 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:53.160 did this by by taking the grades assigned by the 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:55.880 school's teachers and a panel of other adults. And anyway, 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.000 once the pigeons had a grasp on what made a 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:00.800 good painting or a bad painting, they were presented ten 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:04.120 new paintings, and amazingly, the pigeons were able to correctly 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:07.520 identify which these paintings would get low marks by the panel. 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:10.599 And what's interesting is that the findings suggests that pigeons 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:14.640 can naturally categorize things based on shape, color, and even texture, 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:17.120 which is impressive because you know, not a lot of 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:19.320 other species have that trade. Yeah, that's true. I guess 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:22.080 it's one more unexpected thing we have in common with them, Right, 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:25.400 and this list keeps getting longer. Apparently there's one more thing. 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:28.800 Pigeons are the only non primates we know with ability 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:31.600 to recognize letters. So in a two thousand and sixteen 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:34.120 study this comes out of New Zealand, a team successfully 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:38.200 trained four pigeons to recognize dozens of English words, including 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.640 whether or not they were spelled correctly, and the smartest 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:44.239 pision in the group learned to staggering fifty eight words, 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:47.160 which it was able to distinguish from roughly a thousand 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.840 made up words. In contrast, the dullest pigeon, or maybe 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:53.360 the least motivated of these birds, still managed to build 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:56.360 an impressive twenty six word vocabulary during its time in 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:58.880 the lab. All right, so these birds weren't actually reading 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:01.120 the words right like they They didn't learn what the 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:03.960 words meant or anything. They just memorized what the words 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:06.400 look like. Is that right? Yeah, that's right? So they 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:08.760 didn't have the meanings of its just spellings. But you know, 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.120 while wild pigeons are smart enough that they can learn 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:13.800 all these neat tricks, it's not like they're ever really 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:15.840 called upon to be art critics in the wild. And 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:17.760 at the end of the day, it does sort of 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:20.640 seem like pigeons have all these powers of perception, but 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:23.239 maybe aren't living up to their potential in the wild. 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:25.200 I mean, but there's got to be a reason that 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:27.840 they're capability skills, wouldn't you think? Yeah, I mean it's 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:30.640 true biologically, but in all the experiments we mentioned, the 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.440 pigeons were kind of making distinctions based on things that 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:37.200 humans taught them, like impressionist art has all these features, 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:40.440 or the word banana looks and a spell like this. Yeah, 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:42.640 I mean, I can imagine there are cases where recognizing 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:45.720 visual patterns might help with pigeon, you know, forage for 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:49.280 food or a vata predator, Like maybe one notices their 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:51.360 nest isn't the way they left it and that tips 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:53.880 them off that something dangerous is in the area or 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:56.480 something like that. But going back to what you said 0:07:56.520 --> 0:08:01.000 about humans guiding and rewarding pigeons behavior, what's funny is 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:04.920 that you know something we unconsciously do, like including outside 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:08.280 the laboratory setting. For instance, back in two thousand eleven, 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:11.120 there were these two researchers in Paris, and they discovered 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:15.040 that pigeons can remember the appearance and behavior of specific people. 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:18.680 So here's how it went. Over the course of multiple sessions, 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:21.480 these two researchers went to a local park and they 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:24.680 fed the same flock of pigeons. So the first time 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:27.000 they go out, one researcher fed the birds and then 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.680 just stood there while they ate this food, I mean, 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.120 while the other researcher put some food down and then 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:35.280 immediately turned hostile and chase the pigeons away. I'm sure 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:38.240 everybody else in the park was enjoying this. But the 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:42.640 researchers then repeated the experiment again and again, except during 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:46.040 the subsequent visits, neither of them chased away the pigeons. 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:49.960 And here's the thing. The pigeons actually remembered which researcher 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.120 had been nice to them and which one had showed 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:56.040 them away, And so whenever the researchers returned, the pigeons 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:59.280 continuously avoided that researcher who had shunned them. In the 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:02.240 first place, even though he hadn't done anything like that 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.760 on any other occasion. That's pretty interesting. So what kind 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.240 of like visual cues were the pigeons picking up, Like 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:12.360 was the hostile researcher bigger or more intimidating or facial 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:14.880 hair that, like, what what was the distinction? Yeah, when 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:16.920 I was reading about this that that was what I 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:19.240 had assumed as well, is that maybe one researcher just 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:22.480 look less threatening or was wearing more attractive color or 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:25.679 something like that. But they actually accounted for all of this. 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:30.040 In the experiment. The researchers were the same sex, age, build, 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:33.960 skin color, they dressed similarly. It's true that each wore 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:37.280 a different colored lab coat, but you know, I mean, 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:40.000 they also switched lab coats on different visits, and the 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:44.000 pigeons could still always tell which researcher had been hostile 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:47.760 on that first encounter. So the most likely explanation for this, 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:51.840 according to experts, is that pigeons recognize the researchers by 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:55.600 their faces. So not only does that show how pigeons 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:58.880 might use their perceptive powers in the wild, it also 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:02.319 shows that pigeons are really smart about which visual information 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:04.960 to keep track of like you know, take the different 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:08.000 colored lab codes for instance. It seems like the obvious 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:10.400 feature to remember, like since the lab code would have 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:14.360 you know, covered like of their body. But it's like 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.760 our version of feathers, you would think at least. And 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:21.520 yet the pigeons zeroed in on the researchers facial traits, 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:24.720 which is something that couldn't easily be changed day to day. 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:28.320 And so according to these researchers, that distinction is likely 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.040 something pigeons have picked up on, you know, over their 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:34.160 years of living in cities and around other humans, which 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:36.240 makes a ton of sense. And I'm actually glad you're 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:38.559 bringing up that city connection. We we've talked a lot 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:40.679 so far about the science of pigeons, So what do 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:42.640 you say we change gears in and talk a little 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:44.480 pigeon history and how they came to cities in the 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:46.600 first place. That sounds good, But before we get into that, 0:10:46.640 --> 0:11:02.760 let's take a quick break. You're listening to Part Time 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:05.080 Genius and we're talking about all the amazing things you 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:08.440 never knew about the humble pigeon. And speaking of which, 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:10.800 one thing I was surprised to learn this week is 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:13.880 just how far back our relationship with pigeons actually go. 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:18.760 For instance, archaeologists have uncovered figurines, mosaics, and other works 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:21.319 of art depicting pigeons at dig sites in modern day 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:23.839 i Rock, and those artifacts are thought to date as 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:28.960 far back as b C. There's also evidence that pigeons 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:30.960 were a staple food in the Middle East and Europe 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:33.120 for thousands of years, and when you take all of 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:36.160 that together, it's likely that the common rock pigeon, which 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.520 is the species you find in most cities, may have 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:42.120 been the very first bird that humans domesticated. And if 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:44.800 I remember, did that happen mainly because pigeons were an 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.360 easy way to like source meat or something, well, I 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:50.320 think that was certainly their main appeal at first. Wild 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.680 game was often seen hard to come by in Mesopotamia, 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.200 so these protein rich rock pigeons would have been a 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:58.720 godsend in all likelihood, though some hungry ancient farmer probably 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:01.160 noticed the birds milling around his crops and decided it 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:03.079 would be better if he let the birds roost on 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.199 his farm rather than drive him away. But one of 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:07.240 the side effects from spending so much time in close 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.040 quarters was that humans started to take liking to the birds, 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:13.720 and not just the way they tasted. Against all odds, 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.480 humans started seeing reflections of their own humanity and pigeons, 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.480 for instance, Unlike other animals, the pigeons were monogamous and 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:24.040 couples working together to raise their offspring. They were seen 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:28.559 as intelligent and fiercely protective when necessary, but also peaceful 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:31.320 and calm when left to their own devices. And all 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:34.120 these cultures kind of adapted the pigeon as a religious 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.480 symbol or a deity as a result. For example, um, 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:41.679 there are three different goddesses that were symbolized by the pigeons, ishtar, Aphrodite, 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:46.120 and Venus, which spans Babylonia and Greece and and Roman culture. 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:50.320 And in Christian iconography, which I know a ton about, 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.560 the pision is used to represent the Holy Spirit, or 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:56.000 at least that's what I read now. I know we 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:58.240 probably have a lot of listeners thinking here that you're 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:01.480 getting your birds mixed up, because didn't those religions use 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:05.840 doves as symbols, not pigeons. So prepared to have your 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:10.400 mind blown, because scientifically speaking, the words dove and pigeon 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.560 refer to the same animal. Uh, they're actually one of 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:18.440 three eight different bird species in the Columbida family. All Right, 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:20.880 so you're telling me that the pure white dove, a 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.920 universal symbol of peace, is really just another kind of pigeon, 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.439 and vice versa. The gray rock pigeon you saw in 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:29.439 the park the other day is also known as a 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:32.560 rock dove. Al Right, So what about the birds themselves? Like, 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:36.319 how did every city in America wind up overrun by pigeons? Yeah, 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:38.080 I mean overrun is actually a good word for it. 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:42.000 Rock pigeons are actually an invasive species. They were originally 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:45.079 native only to Eurasia and northern Africa, but that changed 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:48.560 in the early sixteen hundreds when European settlers like the French, 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.440 introduced the birds to North America for the very first time, 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.320 and the domesticated birds have been brought along as a 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:56.440 source of food or in some cases, just to be 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.640 raised as a hobby. But somewhere along the way, many 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:01.960 of them escaped to cities and made new homes from 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.920 themselves on the ledges of buildings, which probably reminded them 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.160 of the cliffs back home that they nest in the 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.360 wild on. And from that point on, pigeons became a 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.680 fixture in American towns and cities really thriving in parts 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:17.559 because pigeons aren't picky eaters. They don't have special diets 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.920 like many other birds. So whatever trash or leftovers they 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:23.400 found on city streets that kind of suited their taste 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:25.480 just fine. Which I don't know why I always think 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:27.600 about this quote, but there was that thirty Rock line 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:30.520 where Tracy Jordan's sees a pigeon eating trash and he 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.840 just goes stop eating people's old French fries. Pigeon have 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:38.560 some self respect, don't you know? You can fly, which 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.640 is so good. But that lack of self respect has 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:45.520 benefited them over the years. Uh. The world pigeon population 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:49.600 is estimated at four million, with seven million pigeons living 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:52.040 in New York City alone. That's almost a bird for 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:55.040 every New Yorker minus the bronx. I was gonna say 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:57.680 the population in the areas about that, that's pretty crazy. 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.080 And all those birds in the US are descended on 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:03.720 that initial crop of European runaways. Yeah, they're they're all imported, 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:06.840 But to be fair, that wasn't always the case. So 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.480 when rock pigeons were first brought to American shores in 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:13.119 the seventeenth century, the content actually had its own thriving 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:17.680 indigenous pigeon species, and that's the passenger pigeon. And according 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:20.680 to Mental Flass, as many as five billion passenger pigeons 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:23.720 lived here during the colonial era, accounting for somewhere between 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:27.560 twenty five of all birds in the entire country. However, 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.640 as you probably know, that's not the case anymore. Over. 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:34.000 Hunting and habitat loss, all of that kind of brought 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.800 an end to the passenger pigeon in the early twentieth century, 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:41.000 with the last of their kind, this domesticated female named Martha, 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.480 passing away In all right, this is probably the strangest 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:46.720 transition that I'm going to make today, but you queued 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:50.520 it up so nicely for me. So, speaking of dead pigeons, 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.320 one thing I've always wondered is, if New York is 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:55.880 so chock full of them, then how are there not 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.400 dead ones everywhere you look like? At least, not that 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:00.720 I'm complaining about this, but if you're thought about that, 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:02.800 you know I I haven't thought about it. But but 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:04.640 now I'm curious what you learned, Like, did you get 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:07.000 an answer for this? Well, it turns out that pigeon 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.560 corpses really are something of a rarity in American cities, 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.160 and the biggest reason for this is that the sheer 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.200 number of predators that pigeons are up against in urban 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.480 areas is greater than you would think. Like, as someone 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:23.920 at the Smithsonian Ones put it, rats, cats, raccoons, foxes, possums, 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.000 they all love them. Some pigeon is what they said. 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:32.160 That is Sacha Smithsonian thing, so Smithsonian. So you're saying 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.000 most pigeons get eaten up by predators, But what about 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:36.840 like the old timers. I mean, there have to be 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.240 some pigeons that make it to old age. So where 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:41.720 did those guys end up? Well, you're definitely talking about 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:44.480 the minority here. I mean, most wild pigeons survive for 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:47.640 five or six years on average, and it's compared to 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:51.280 fifteen years or even longer in captivity. So the ones 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:53.520 that aren't eaten, like the lucky ones, who have a 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.480 lot more control over their debts, they tend to choose 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:59.440 these peaceful nooks and crannies for their final resting places. 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:01.800 So maybe the air ducts of a building or the 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.000 corner ledge of a skyscraper some whether it's you know, 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.880 not quite as visible. So I guess it really does 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:08.920 depend on where you look. Yeah, I mean, you've got 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:11.440 to really want to find a dead pigeon. I guess 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.280 it's a heck of a scavenger hunt. But you know, 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:18.240 the whole time we've been talking about this, I I 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:21.119 keep thinking of that story about Nixon's inaugurations. Do you 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:23.560 remember this one? I don't think I do remember this 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:26.359 Affairly had a tough go at his first inauguration in 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:29.320 nineteen six nine, like the Vietnam War was in full swing, 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:33.600 and Nixon's motorcade wound up being pelted with tomatoes and rocks. 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.400 So when his second inauguration came around in seventy three, 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:39.320 Nixon remembered how messy things had gotten the last time, 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:43.080 and he wanted to take every possible precaution to avoid 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.400 another embarrassment. And this is how far he went. Right. 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:49.080 He had his people paint the branches of trees along 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:53.280 the parade route with this special chemical called roost no more. 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:56.639 It was this gooey chemical that was supposed to make 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.840 a pigeon's feet so itchy that it one't want to 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.400 above the motor kid, I guess. And yeah, and obviously 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:06.240 he was trying to avoid um droppings falling on the car. 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:08.240 But as you can probably tell about the fact that 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.200 I'm telling you this story, things did not go as planned. 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.760 So for starters, the pigeons didn't mind their itchiness of 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:17.119 roost no more, I guess. And what's worse, they didn't 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:19.680 mind the taste of it either. So so many pigeons 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:23.320 ate this highly toxic paste that the day of the parade, 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.960 the entire route was like littered with dozens of dead 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:30.640 and dying pigeons, which is so much worse than dirty windshields, 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:32.800 No kidding. Can you imagine being there? That would have 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:36.000 been weird? All right. Well, now that we've seen the 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.480 time when pigeons and humans didn't get along so well, 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:39.919 I feel like we should take a look at a 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:42.680 few examples of the opposite, you know, the times when 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:46.159 pigeons and people lived in perfect harmony. Yeah, let's do that, 0:18:46.160 --> 0:19:03.080 But first another break. Welcome back to part time genius Samango. 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:04.920 I know it can be dicey to try and pin 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:08.480 down the etymology of a phrase. Any idiom you think 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:11.560 of can probably have a half dozen or so false 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:14.359 origin stories, But there is one that I came across 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.960 this week that was just too interesting not to talk 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:20.280 about it. So you've heard the term stool pigeon before, right, 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:23.399 like an informer or rat or whatever. That's right. And 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:25.960 it's kind of a strange phrase when you think about it, 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:28.680 because number one, how does the stool fit into any 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:32.640 of this? And number two, pigeons aren't that talkative, and 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:34.840 you know, as far as birds go, they're actually pretty quiet. 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:37.560 So I hadn't thought about this before, but I'm pretty 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:39.720 curious where does the term actually come from. Well, the 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:42.560 working theory is that the phrases this throwback to an 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:46.320 old sixteenth century hunting practice where pigeons were used as 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:50.280 decoys to lure in larger birds. As for the stool part, 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:52.919 there are a couple of options here. One is that 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:56.439 these decoy pigeons were tied to actual stools, like the 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:59.320 idea of being that the live pigeon would flutter in 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:02.840 place catch the eye of these other animals. And then 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:06.200 the other option is that stool is really a corruption 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.520 of this word stole, which is an old word for 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.679 tree stump. It's spelled s t o a l e. 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:15.399 And in either case, though, the stool was whatever you 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:18.600 tie the decoy pigeon too. And then sometime in the 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:21.399 mid eighteen hundreds of Americans started applying the term to 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:24.520 a different type of decoy. Those would be these police 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:28.119 informers who hung around the criminal world or the criminal underworld. 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:30.800 Really and I'm not sure who first made that connection 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:32.800 or why, but that does seem to be where it 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:35.520 might have come from. Well, pigeons may not be very 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:38.560 talkative themselves, but they are pretty amazing when it comes 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:41.840 to delivering other people's messages. And that's thanks to their 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:44.800 innate sense of direction. You know, pigeons can find their 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:48.000 way back home from pretty much anywhere, even if scientists 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:50.080 still haven't figured out how they do it. Yeah. I 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:53.359 actually remember we covered some of these theories way back 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:56.919