1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome back to 5 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: the show. My name is Nomal. Our good friend writer 6 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: die colleague Matt Frederick is on adventures but will be 7 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: returning soon. They call me Ben. We are joined as 8 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: always with our super producer. Today it is Seth Nicholas Johnson, 9 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: So give him an audible hello when you get the 10 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: chance in the meantime, and most importantly, you are you. 11 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't 12 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: want you to know. Uh No, I figured we'd start 13 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: off today's episode with an email from one of our listeners. 14 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 1: This comes to us from Claude G. Claude says, hey, guys, 15 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: I just listened to our latest episode about the possible 16 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: inspiration for True Detective. We did that one a while back. 17 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: Uh and this and Claude says, I enjoyed the episode, 18 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,559 Speaker 1: but was wondering if you had heard of another theory 19 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: about the inspiration for the show. I was raised in Jennings, Louisiana. 20 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: I live a few minutes away now but still go 21 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: there multiple times a week. Jennings claimed to fame, unfortunately 22 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: as a multiple murder case titled by the media the 23 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: Jennings Eight. Showtime has recently done a five part series 24 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: on it and mentioned True Detective in one of the episodes. 25 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: My family and I are personally connected to the story. 26 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: Is one of the victims was a cousin of ours. Anyway, 27 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: I was curious to see if you guys have heard 28 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: of the connection to the TV series and our case. 29 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: Thanks for your time, Claude this this is fascinating. Now, 30 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: we did know a little bit about this, but we 31 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: wanted to explore the case today. It's something that many 32 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: people have heard of but or maybe not intimately familiar with. UH, 33 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: And for this sort of episode, we do need to 34 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: have a disclaimer at the top of the show. It's 35 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: true on today's episode dives into some pretty disturbing stuff 36 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: stories of true crime, murder, drugs, and corruption and UH. 37 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 1: The episode contains at times quite graphic descriptions of violence 38 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: and assault, and it might not be suitable for all listeners. 39 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: So to start, what are the Jennings Eight. In order 40 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 1: to answer this question, please travel with us to Jefferson 41 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: Davis Parish, Louisiana. Here are the facts Jefferson Davis Parish. 42 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: It's located in southwest Louisiana and it's a small place. 43 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: You know, a parish is Louisiana's version of a county. 44 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: It has a little more than thirty thousand residents. The 45 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: parish seat is a town called Jennings. It's the largest 46 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: town in the area, but the population is still us 47 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,399 Speaker 1: a little over ten thousand according to the census. It's 48 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: home to some notable individuals. I found one mysterious story 49 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: here a guy named Father Eugene John Herbert. It was 50 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: a Jesuit missionary and he disappeared in Sri Lanka during 51 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: the country's Civil war. He has nothing to do with 52 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 1: this show today, as far as we know. Before the 53 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: events disclosed in today's episode. Jefferson Davis, which was named 54 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: after the former President of the Confederacy. It was one 55 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: of those places you probably wouldn't be too familiar with 56 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: unless you lived in the area. It made the news 57 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: a couple of times for things like corrupt ticketing by 58 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: local law enforcement. You know, we've all heard that thing 59 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: where if you're a stranger to town you're driving by 60 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:52,119 Speaker 1: and you've got plates from outside of the area, big 61 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: old red flag target, and that's happened. You've you've driven 62 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: through some of those areas in your travels, Baby to 63 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: Athens or Agusta. Sure, I mean, you know, I mean 64 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: I would I would imagine there'd be an argument to 65 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: to make that it's some form of profiling, but it's just, 66 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: you know, it's the rules kind of it's it's like 67 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: something you should expect probably, and it's kind of difficult 68 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: to prove too. Like many rural areas, you wouldn't see 69 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: Jennings often in the national news. In fact, you could 70 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: live your entire life here in the United States never 71 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 1: know this place existed. Jefferson Davis isn't particularly large. In 72 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: fact um it's not particularly wealthy either, and like so 73 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: many other places in the United States these days, it 74 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: had a pretty CD underbelly. Um in the absence of prosperity, um, 75 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: economic opportunity jobs. You it is a vacuum that is 76 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 1: typically filled with drugs and crime and other types of 77 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: black market trading, which grew into kind of an open 78 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: secret and Jefferson Davis everyone knew what went down on 79 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: South Main street um, but it wasn't necessarily something that 80 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: was going to get shut down by the cops, you know, 81 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 1: on the regular right. Absolutely, yeah, it was an open secret. 82 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: Especially in South Jennings. Life in this small parish seems 83 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: set to continue as it always had, and even to 84 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:28,359 Speaker 1: continue along a bit of a slow economic decline until 85 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: that is, residents began finding the bodies. We're going to 86 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:38,239 Speaker 1: explore the initial murders, or the discoveries of the bodies 87 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: even before they were termed murders. On May two thousand 88 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: and five, there's a fisherman retired men named Jerry Jackson 89 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: who discovers the first body. It's floating in a canal 90 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: off Highway eleven on the outskirts of Jennings. His body 91 00:05:55,680 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: is identified as one Loretta Lynn uh Kind song Chasa 92 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: On Louis. Louis had been seen alive three days earlier. 93 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: Because of the amount that her body had decomposed, um 94 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: authorities weren't able to conclusively determine her cause of death, 95 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: but they suspected asphyxiation, and as you'll recall from our 96 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: previous episode on the Smiley Face Murder Theory, drowning as 97 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: homicide can can be a pretty tough nut to crack. 98 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: It's very difficult to prove, just like it's hard to 99 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: prove that it cop pulls you over because you had 100 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: out of state place. Yet the court of public opinion 101 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 1: was already in full swing, and there's some pretty nasty 102 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: victim blaming that happens, especially in the media. Because, according 103 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: to the residents in the no Louis was living what 104 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,919 Speaker 1: was often euphemistically described as a quote high risk lifestyle. 105 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: She was addicted to crack cocaine. She was another casualty 106 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: of the drug trade running along that quarter of I ten, 107 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: and she had turned to the sex trade to feed 108 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: her addiction. And at first this was seen as a tragedy, 109 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: and it is, but less than a few months later, 110 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: residents and law enforcement started to recognize that this discovery 111 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: wasn't just a singular tragedy. It was something else, the 112 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,239 Speaker 1: beginning of a pattern. That's right. A group of friends 113 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: hunting bull frogs, which is the thing that you do 114 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: in Jefferson Davis for fun. Uh, they found the corpse 115 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: of a thirty year old Messtine Patterson m A. Stein Patterson. 116 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: A few weeks later, flitting in a different canal um 117 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: this particular victim's cause of death was a bit easier 118 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: to figure out. Her throat had been cut, her body brutalized. 119 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: Two men u a Byron Chad Jones and Lawrence Nixon 120 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: Um are held for a brief amount of time on 121 00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: charges of second degree murder. But these charges were of 122 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: course dropped and they were released. And so we have two. 123 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: We have two discoveries in two thousand and five years pass. 124 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: On March eighteen, two thousand seven, another body is discovered, 125 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: that of twenty one year old Kristen Gary Lopez. She 126 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: is discovered in a canal, and like the Lewis case, 127 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: medical examiners cannot conclusively nail down a cause of death, 128 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: and like in the Patterson case, two people are briefly detained. 129 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: This time it's a guy named Frankie Richard who has 130 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: described alternately as a retired oil rig worker, UH strip 131 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,199 Speaker 1: club owner and a PEMP along with his niece Hannah Connor. 132 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: These two are later released, just like in the Paterson 133 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: case due to lack of evidence. Yeah it's right. And 134 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: over the next year and a half, four more bodies 135 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 1: turned up in and around Jennings, all UH fitting the 136 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: same profile. The same unfortunate kind of forgotten demographic, poor young, 137 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: with a history of drug addiction. Rap sheets a mile long, 138 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: um typically um charges involving the sex trade or other 139 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: criminal activities. We have Whitney du Bois, it was twenty six, 140 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: Laconia Muggie Brown twenty three, who like Patterson, had her 141 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:37,359 Speaker 1: throat slit, as well Crystal Sha Benoir Zeno Brittany Gary seventeen, 142 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: who was the cousin of Kristen Gary Lopez. Most of 143 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: these bodies showed almost no signs of trauma, and the 144 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: medical examiner's ruled asphyxiation is the cause of death. It's 145 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: interesting other than the like case with the slit throat, 146 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: so the law has to respond again. Jefferson Davis Parrish 147 00:09:55,080 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: has a small population. This death rate, this murder rate, 148 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: is insane. So in December of two thousand and eight, 149 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: the Jefferson Davis Parish Sheriff's Department, under the leadership of 150 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:13,439 Speaker 1: one Sheriff Rickey Edwards, announces that they're forming a task 151 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: force to investigate what they're now openly calling murders. His 152 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: task force is referred to as Multi Agency Investigative Team 153 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: or m a i T. They include local officials, state officials, 154 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: and some FEDS. Their results leave much to be desired. 155 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: In August of two thousand and nine, and eighth victim 156 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: is found, Nicole Guillory, twenty six years old. The body 157 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,839 Speaker 1: has discovered off I ten in the adjacent Acadia Parish 158 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: later that fall, Sheriff Edwards notes that these deaths may 159 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: be the work of what they describe as a common offender, 160 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: a single person committing the homicides. In other words, although 161 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: they would hate to use the phrase, I'm sure a 162 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: serial killer, so that's where we're at at that point. 163 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: Between two thousand and five and two thousand and nine, 164 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: eight women have disappeared, only to be found dead Shortly thereafter. 165 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: The task force more than doubles their reward for information 166 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 1: from thirty five thousand dollars to eighty five thousand dollars, 167 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: and the victims become collectively known in the zeitgeist as 168 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: the Jeff Davis eight or later the Jennings eight. But 169 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: this is only the beginning of the story. In January 170 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: of the New York Times reported on the deaths, and 171 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: this article caught the attention of a New Orleans based 172 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: journalist named Ethan Brown. In eleven, Brown went to Jennings 173 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: to do his own digging, his own interviews, his own investigations. 174 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: Brown becomes obsessed with the story and convinced that there's 175 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: more to it than what has already been reported, and 176 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: will explore Brown's investigation after a word from our sponsors. 177 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. So as this journalist Ethan 178 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: Brown pours over public records, as he interviews numerous people 179 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: affiliated with the victims, As he interviews members of the 180 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: task force and even suspects in the crimes, he begins 181 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: to think this was not, in fact the work of 182 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: a serial killer, but of someone else. And it starts 183 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: when he It starts when he begins connecting dots between 184 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: the victims. Because remember, this is a small town, and 185 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: there's a reason we have stereotypes about small towns. One 186 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: of the most common stereotypes about small town is that 187 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: there are no real secrets, that everyone knows everyone somehow, 188 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: and a lot of our fellow listeners tuning in today 189 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: probably have lived in a small town and can attest 190 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: to that you know. And then also there's the argument 191 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: that every town you live and becomes smaller the longer 192 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:05,839 Speaker 1: you live there. So he Brown starts to note that 193 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 1: all these victims are connected. No, you mentioned that they 194 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: had that demographic in common, and they had similar issues 195 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: with addiction and money. But he also finds that in 196 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: addition to that first point, secondly, they had all served 197 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 1: to some degree or another as police informants. What are 198 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: they called see eyes, Yeah, confidential informants. That's right. And 199 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: that's the thing. I mean a lot of times folks 200 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: that are doing this kind of informing they may know 201 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: each other, and they're aware of each other and maybe 202 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: have each other's backs in that respect, because it is 203 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: such a dangerous situation to be in two we're actually related, 204 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: and another two lived together for a time in eight Uh. Fourth, 205 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 1: we've got multiple relatives who told Brown the victims had 206 00:13:54,600 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: appeared unusually anxious or frightened before disappearing. Yeah, And that 207 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: fourth point, to be fair, is a little maybe a 208 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: little more subjective, because these people were living hard, difficult lives, 209 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: you know, when there was there were probably plenty of 210 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: normal reasons to be anxious or frightened. But still it 211 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: fits the pattern. Let's pause here now, I know what 212 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: you're saying. Folks. Didn't you all just have a commercial break? 213 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: Well we do, but we also have an important announcement. 214 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: You see, our our good pal and colleague, Matt Frederick 215 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: has actually returned from his adventure. Matt, I'm materialized. I'm here. 216 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: I didn't know we could all do you that thought 217 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: that was just a ben power. Well, I heard you 218 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: guys talking about Ethan Brown, and I was like, oh man, 219 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: I gotta get in there. That's I mean, it is 220 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: crazy that you showed up, but we're glad you're here. 221 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: It's also a very niche fascination that to have triggered 222 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: your spidy sense. I mean, I have been reading about 223 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: this case, um ever since. I believe it was a 224 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: listener male claud Yeah, send us down this rabbit hole 225 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: and it uh yeah, it's been disturbing me ever since. 226 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: So thanks so much for sending it to us. And 227 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: also no, thank you, but thank you. Yes we uh 228 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: we opened the show with Claude's email, and now we're 229 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: I don't think we need to catch you up on 230 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: any of this, Matt, because you know it pretty well. 231 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: Uh So, now we're at this point where Brown is 232 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: making connections, right, He's already he's connected some stuff about 233 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: He's co operated some statements from relatives. He's noticed that 234 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: there is a web of connection between the victims. He 235 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: also finds another key connection the Boudreau in just off 236 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: of Interstate ten. It connects Houston to New Orleans. Could 237 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit about that one. Yeah, 238 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: so this is like one of the hubs or possibly 239 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: the hub of a whole drug and sex like sex 240 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: traded drugs of what do you call it? Not empires, 241 00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: but just where where drugs are distributed pretty heavily. Uh. 242 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: Police are always there busting people for various things. Generally 243 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: is for the sex rader for drugs, surprise, surprise. And 244 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: several of the victims that have been identified in this 245 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: case or you know that are that are out there 246 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: that he is kind of bringing together here. Um, they've 247 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: received complaints based on their behavior at this location. When 248 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: you say, when we say complaints based on their behavior, um, 249 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: we're talking, you know, generally about sex work. Well, yeah, 250 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: I'm also uh loud hotel parties. Yes, that's occurring here. 251 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: Depending on where you've spent time in the US or broade, 252 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: you've probably seen motels like this before, typically right off 253 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: the inner state. Um, a little beaten down right and Uh. 254 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: They you know, they don't have the best reputation, and 255 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: they've earned that not the best reputation. Well here and 256 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: here's the deal to um, it's a lot of times 257 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: the community of its own uh motel like that. So 258 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: a lot of the the victims here are sharing this 259 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: this um web of of people that they all are 260 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: acquaintances with. And again it's like you know, it's it's 261 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 1: also a small town, right, it's a this whole this 262 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 1: whole place we're talking about is small town. So all 263 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 1: those rules apply, and in this case, within the drug 264 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: trade itself, within the six trade. I mean, it's true 265 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: a lot of those very let's call them affordable hotels, 266 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: I guess for lack of a better term, people stay 267 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 1: there for long periods of time. They rent rooms weekly, 268 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: and often there is a like you said, Matt, kind 269 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: of a hub where it's people kind of go in 270 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: and out, like you know, John's will show up to 271 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: this particular motel to particular room to get um, you know, 272 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 1: sex work services, and same with with drugs, and like 273 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: you said, it becomes almost this community where everyone knows 274 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: each other, everyone is aware of each other's kind of 275 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 1: comings and goings, right, exactly. These are good points because 276 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: the victims also share a head of mutual acquaintances. The 277 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,479 Speaker 1: thing about these small town rules, the stereotype I mentioned 278 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: earlier about everyone knowing everyone, is that this kind of 279 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: rule applies to the criminal side of a small town 280 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 1: as well, and it applies in the drug trade. That's 281 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 1: what leads Ethan Brown to interview a friend of the victims, 282 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: self professed uh the man we mentioned earlier, a strip 283 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 1: club owner named Frankie Richards, and in his interview with 284 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: Brown and with others, Richard paints Jennings in a grizzly light. 285 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: The drugs, the sex work, and the crooked cops, he argues, 286 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: are operating more or less openly and Jennings and have 287 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 1: been for some time before the killings begin. So Brown 288 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: also finds that the rot in Jennings Louisiana does not 289 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: stop at the dirty banks of the canals. In may 290 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: see piece he wrote on medium dot com he we 291 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: have a quote that that that helps walk us through 292 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: his opinion on the law enforcement. Since the early nineteen nineties, 293 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 1: there have been nearly twenty unsolved homicides, including the slain 294 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: eight women in Jefferson Davis parish, a statistic and a 295 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: competent sheriff's department that would be regarded as both a 296 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: ridiculously low clearance rate and an astonishingly high murder rate 297 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: for a small area. Yeah, but Brown does not attribute 298 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: these disturbing statistics to incompetence alone. As a matter of fact, 299 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 1: he explicitly calls out law enforcement in this article. Yes, 300 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: he says, quote, one fact is clear. Local law enforcement 301 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 1: is far too steeped in misconduct and corruption. And this 302 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: extends to the task force, which is dominated by detectives 303 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: and deputies from the sheriff's office to run an investigation 304 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,360 Speaker 1: with the integrity that the murdered women and in their 305 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: families deserve after nearly a decade in which no one 306 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: has been brought to justice. And we'll love love more 307 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 1: on law enforcement plenty more actually in in a moment. 308 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: But let's let's follow Brown a bit further. Let's let's 309 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: learn more about these suspects. So Brown finds that the 310 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: suspects have something similar going on with their web of relationships. 311 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 1: While there are different suspects for different cases or different 312 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: you know, specific murders, the suspects seem increasingly inter related, 313 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: even Frankie Richard was briefly charged in two thousand and 314 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 1: seven for the murder of Lopez, but the charges were 315 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: dropped when the witness statements were conflicting and then when 316 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: a key piece of physical evidence was mishandled and definitely fishing. Yeah, 317 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: and that you have you have some insight on Frankie Richards, correct. Well, 318 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: it comes from a a series titled Murder in the Bayou, 319 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: and there are just quotes there from Frankie Richard that 320 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: just I wonder how much of it makes me feel 321 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: as though he's like doing something morally wrong. And I 322 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: just feel like there's some some semblance of of um 323 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: distrust in him just in general because of that, or 324 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: it's just because of the way he words things. And 325 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: and I don't know how much of that can actually 326 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,360 Speaker 1: be attributed back to you know, the Jennings eight murders, right, 327 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: And I don't think any of it can, because it's 328 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: just a feeling that I'm getting in reading these things. 329 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna read this quote, Um, You'll understand what 330 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: I'm saying, but it's going to be a little bit. Uh, 331 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: I'm gonna use different words for what he's saying. My 332 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: most memorable way of making a living was selling p 333 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: We sold p any and every effing way we could. 334 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 1: I did not pimp them girls. I introduced them to 335 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: older men that wanted to spend some money on a 336 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: young gal. I'm making sure they are getting their money, 337 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 1: making sure they're not getting hurt. Broker in sex is pimping, right, 338 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 1: that's not the quote, that's just a fact. Yeah, I know. Well, 339 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:24,199 Speaker 1: and also just the way again, like maybe it's reading it, 340 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: maybe he's just I'm imagining him saying that, and just that, um, 341 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: the way he's so nonchalantly is talking about it and 342 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,120 Speaker 1: then reflects back on it as in like, oh man, 343 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 1: this was a great time in my life. Well, he's 344 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: also he's he's a free man, but he's he's lived 345 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: a hard life. If you hear any audio with him. Yeah, 346 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: and you know, and I'm not discounting that he's led 347 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: a hard life. It's just I'm just talking specifically about 348 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: personal feeling from and then here's one more quote. Just 349 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 1: when we're talking about Frankie Richards, um he a family 350 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: member of his and niece and daughter named Hannah talked 351 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: about her uncle in this way. And this is a 352 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: quote again from that same series, Uncle Frankie was like 353 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: the guy you didn't mess with, you know, he took 354 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: care of business, which again like it's more of like 355 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: a character witness kind of thing. It has nothing to 356 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: do with whether or not he actually did any of 357 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: these crimes. It's just perhaps is one of the major 358 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: reasons why he was a suspect, along with all the 359 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: other evidence that was involved. But you can just maybe 360 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: there's just this air about him that would make him 361 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: look good for it. Yeah, and he was. He did 362 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: have knowledge, carnal and otherwise of people who would later 363 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: go on to be murdered in in this course of events. 364 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 1: There were other people charged in these cases, as we said, 365 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: the men charged in the Patterson case Byron Chad Jones 366 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: and Lawrence Nixon. Uh, he got off because of what 367 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: it may have been police incompetence, you could call it that. 368 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 1: But it's sort of a glass half empty, glass half 369 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: full situation because our journalists Brown learned that the sheriff's 370 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: office did not test the alleged crime scene until fifteen 371 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: months after Patterson's murder, and they were unable to demonstrate 372 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 1: the presence of blood. Surprise surprise, if you wait more 373 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: than a year, that kind of organic evidence can get 374 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: increasingly more difficult to detect. He also found evidence that 375 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: other street level criminals in Jennings, especially people who were 376 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 1: associated with Frankie Richard, were suspected in some of the 377 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: other murders, but nothing came of it. And this task 378 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: force was conducting exhaustive interviews, nothing came of it. The 379 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: law found no credible suspects. Yeah. And here's the thing, though, 380 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: corruption or incompetence, because what Brown starts calling the jeff 381 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: Davis a didn't just give info the drug trade to 382 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: the police when they were cis. They apparently gave authorities 383 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: information about other women in the trade and the community 384 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 1: who would later turn up dead and be part of 385 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: the Jefferson Davis eight murders. Uh. Laconia Brown, the fifth victim, 386 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 1: was interrogated about the two thousand five killing of Ernestine Patterson. 387 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: Was you know as you will call the second victim, 388 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: Brown said that he had. Brown is not Ethan Brown, 389 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: our journalist, is not related to Laconia Muggy Brown. But 390 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: he found a task force report where one of the 391 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: witnesses claims that Brown spotted the body of Loretta Lewis 392 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 1: the first victim floating in that canal before the fisherman 393 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: found her body there in in May two thousand five. 394 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: And then in two thousand six, detectives who were looking 395 00:25:55,320 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: into that first murder also interrogated Kristen Gary Lopez, who 396 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: later becomes the third victim, and and Brown correctly false 397 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 1: the task force for not immediately noticing this troubling cavalcade 398 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: of red flags. Here's what literally was happening. Women were 399 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: being questioned in murder cases and then shortly thereafter they 400 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: were turning up dead. It's really tough because you never 401 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: want to believe that law enforcement, you know, could possibly 402 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,880 Speaker 1: even just be turning an eye of a blind eye, right, 403 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: You never want to believe that that could be happening. 404 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: And we're certainly not saying that is what's happening. But um, 405 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: just from the reporting of Ethan Brown, it definitely is 406 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: making me personally question a lot of this stuff. And 407 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 1: then you move on to the last victim, Nicole Guillory. Um, 408 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,400 Speaker 1: she's a you know, another person who had a rap 409 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 1: sheet that was pretty extensive with charges that were repeatedly dropped, 410 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: which is something that should pique your interest in what's 411 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 1: called as a nol pros sequi. It's a ruling from 412 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: the District Attorney's office the d A, and it just 413 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 1: means uh, to be unwilling to pursue. Yeah. So we're 414 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: we're prosecutors and we're we're not saying that there's no 415 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 1: sand to the charges. But for one reason or another, 416 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: usually internal, we have decided not to prosecute. Yeah. And 417 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 1: it could be we don't want to put resources into 418 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: this for one reason or another. It could be that 419 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: maybe there's something happening behind the scenes with this person 420 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 1: that's being charged as let's say, a see I or something. Right. 421 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 1: This is often used as a way to uh, It's 422 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: often used his way to trade favors. You tell us 423 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:47,360 Speaker 1: about this other unrelated case off the books, and then 424 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: will make this, you know, this possession charge something small 425 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: time go away. Gilory's mother, Barbara, noted that her daughter 426 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: was increasingly paranoid in the days leading up to her disappearance, 427 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: and one Task Force witness told Ethan Brown that Guillory 428 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 1: Nicole Guillory, had said she knew who killed the other girls, 429 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: the other seven women. To this day, Barbara Guillory believes 430 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: her daughter was murdered not by a serial killer, but 431 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: by someone inside law enforcement because her daughter knew too 432 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,479 Speaker 1: much about the ongoing corruption. We even have a quote 433 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: from Barbara here, which is which is pretty You can 434 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: tell that she has certitude about us. This is not 435 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 1: something she suspects. She used to tell us all the time. 436 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: It was the police killing the girls. Um, this was 437 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: Barbara said. And we would reply, and Nicole a name something, 438 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: writes a letter and leaves it somewhere, let us know 439 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: we can help you. Uh No, Mama, it's too far gone, 440 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: it's too big. I'd rather y'all not know nothing. That way, 441 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: nothing can happen to y'all. She knew, she knew, she knew, 442 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: and that's why they killed her. Brown found other similar 443 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: reports and still at this point, this is all you know. 444 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: Witness testimony, and witness testimony can can be unreliable, right, 445 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: It can trend toward anecdote to memory as a tricky 446 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 1: treacherous thing. But when you find multiple reports corroborating similar accounts, 447 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: it becomes something you cannot ignore. Gayle Brown, for instance, 448 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: a sister of Muggy Brown, said shortly before her sister 449 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: was killed, she told her family she was investigating a 450 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: murder with a cop and this cop was I believe, 451 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: supposed to give her five dollars for information. But Gail 452 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: also believes law enforcement murdered her sister. Is what's going 453 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,479 Speaker 1: on here? Why is a task force composed of local 454 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: and state level and federal authorities, uh, pushing a narrative 455 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: about a serial or when multiple relatives and surviving witnesses 456 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: are saying the same people are some of the same 457 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: people investigating these murders are the same people who committed them? 458 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: Will explore this after a word from our sponsor and 459 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: we're back sort of, yes, we I mean, we've been 460 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: talking about how they are, all these witnesses, and within 461 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: this room one of ours has left. We have gained 462 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: a witness that's me, and we've lost a witness, which 463 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: is Noel Brown. Yeah, I'm starting to wonder what you 464 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: guys are getting up to. Well, you know, it's interesting 465 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: when uh, when you were not here recently and the 466 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: two of us were in the room and we were 467 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: we were talking with everyone who's also gathered here right 468 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 1: now just about you know, your mysterious ways. Uh, you know, 469 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: I don't want to surprise you, Ben, but I think 470 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: we are starting to develop some mysterious ways of our own. 471 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: Perhaps it's a sketchiness by osmosis, right, yes, proximity. And 472 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: you know I noticed this didn't happen until Seth you started, uh, 473 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: you started producing this show. He's a guy on the 474 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: inside and he's he's got this weird kind of malevolent 475 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: smirk on while he's he's knitting. What this is true? Yeah, Seth, 476 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: Seth is knitting. Do you think that's knitting? Dude? I 477 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: don't know, he is. He is stringing together a thought 478 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: tulpas right now, he's making a weapon. I like it. 479 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: I don't know, No, I like it. I like it. Uh, 480 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: you know it reminds me of the Three Fates story. Right, well, 481 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: we'll spin a golden thread in there for us man, 482 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: you know, the fate of heroes something. Uh, so we'll 483 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: pick up. We do not know whether our good compatriot 484 00:31:55,320 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: Knol is related to our journalist here Ethan Brown, but 485 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: hopefully no will be returning soon. And here we arrive 486 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: at the point Brown has to ask himself, is this 487 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: a matter of incompetence or is it a matter of insidiousness? 488 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: You know? Is it just a bunch of people who 489 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: are terrible at their jobs, or is it something more malevolent? Well, 490 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: you know what we're calling in the beginning there it 491 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: definitely or you at least have to give a bit 492 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 1: of the benefit of the doubt and say, okay, this 493 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: is if something is happening, is probably incompetence. And now 494 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: as he's gone further and further and further into this, 495 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 1: he's thinking it's more corruption, right, and along the way 496 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: he is starting to get warning signs, little threats, cryptic hints. 497 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: We should, also, of course, to be completely fair, say 498 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: that it's it's easy for someone on the outside without 499 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: knowledge of law enforcement investigative processes, to say something is 500 00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: incompetent because law enforcement has the labor under a distinct 501 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 1: set of rules. And there's one primary disadvantage that law 502 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: enforcement always has, which is, in theory, law enforcement has 503 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: to play by the rules and the bad guys do not. 504 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: So if if there's something that seems off kilter, if 505 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: there's something that seems like it doesn't add up, just 506 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 1: like any anytime you investigate something like this, you have 507 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: to realize that what can be what can appear to 508 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 1: be conspiracy, can often be explained by incompetence or mistake 509 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: or user error essentially, or just a regulation didn't allow 510 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: for one thing or another to happen right right, or 511 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,959 Speaker 1: because of a technical problem with the chain of command 512 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,479 Speaker 1: for evidence. For instance, Uh, someone that everyone knows as 513 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: a murderer walks free. That happens. That happens because the 514 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: law is not perfect. So Brown does his due diligence, 515 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: and he says, you know what, this could have been incompetence, 516 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: But incompetence does not explain the enormity of what's happening 517 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: here in Louisiana. He says, what appears to be incompetence 518 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,240 Speaker 1: might be out and out corruption. And this is when 519 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,359 Speaker 1: he begins to learn what we should call the oral 520 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: history of the dark side of Jennings, Louisiana. The old 521 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: street heads people have been in and out of the 522 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:34,359 Speaker 1: system for decades. They tell him that corruption in this 523 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,879 Speaker 1: in this little part of Louisiana dates all the way 524 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: back to the nineties seventies, when cops got involved on 525 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: the other side of the drug trade where they were 526 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 1: you know, they were selling the drugs or getting a 527 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 1: big yeah, at least allowing it to to occur with 528 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: with some beneficial thing, right. Um, but then he keeps 529 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: going down the rabbit hole about the local law enforcement. Right, 530 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: And we've got a quote, Yeah, we've got a quote. 531 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: As he's going down the rabbit hole, he learns more 532 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: and more. We we pulled just a few examples that 533 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: were powerful to to show you that if there is 534 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:13,919 Speaker 1: corruption related to the murder of the Jefferson Davis eight, 535 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: then it this corruption itself is part of a larger pattern. 536 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: It didn't happen out of the blue. That's again, if 537 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: law enforcement is responsible for the murders. Here's the quote. 538 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: Brown rights. In March of two local men burglarized the 539 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: sheriff's office, making off with a staggering three hundred pounds 540 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:40,280 Speaker 1: of marijuana. When investigators interviewed one of the burglars, according 541 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: to court documents, he named a surprising pair of accomplices, 542 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: Frankie Richard and a man named Ted Gary. Ted Gary 543 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: is interesting because he was the chief deputy sheriff at 544 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,399 Speaker 1: the time. Brown notes that there were no charges ever 545 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: brought against Richard and Gary. And uh, let's just keep 546 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: going here because there's another quote. Quote. Three years later, 547 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: Sheriff Dallas Cormier pleaded guilty and federal court to one 548 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: count of obstruction of justice after he was charged with 549 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: crimes ranging from improper dealings with inmates to using public 550 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:23,840 Speaker 1: funds to buy trucks, tires, and guns for himself. And 551 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: then in October of two thousand and three, eight female 552 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: cops on the Jennings force filed a civil rights lawsuit 553 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: against the Jennings Police Chief, Donald Lucky Deluche Uh and 554 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: then a bunch of other male cops and the city 555 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,920 Speaker 1: of Jennings itself, and they said there were widespread acts 556 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: of sexual violence and harassment. Amongst the allegations and the complaint, 557 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: there were things like a captain who would shake his 558 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: genitals at female officers and say things like, you know, 559 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: I like to lick as you said, Matt Pte, I 560 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 1: can numb it all night. Uh, people forced oral sex 561 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,719 Speaker 1: on female officers, a lieutenant who waved a knife at 562 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,359 Speaker 1: a female officer saying that, you know, he was going 563 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: to cut her up. And then in January, just think 564 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: about this. This goes back from these specific examples to 565 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 1: a former police chief, Johnny Lasseter, gets hit with a 566 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 1: ton of charges after Louisiana State Police find forty dollars 567 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 1: in cash, eighteen hundred pills, more than three eighty grahams 568 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 1: of cocaine, and pounds of marijuana missing from the department's 569 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:45,399 Speaker 1: evidence room. Wow, the evidence room, by the way, is 570 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: a sieve. Yeah, it's exactly well. And and who knows 571 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 1: how many officers were actually involved in the you know, 572 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: movement of all those materials that were found missing, right, 573 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 1: I mean the sheriff is blamed there that case because 574 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,920 Speaker 1: this is your evidence room. And I think it's so 575 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: intellectually lazy and tempting. Will we hear these stories to say, well, 576 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: all cops are bad? Are all all these people everybody 577 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 1: who works at this department from bottom up, they're all 578 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: they're all rotten. It's jerks all the way up and 579 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 1: jerks all the way down. That's not true in this case. 580 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: There's a there's a former sergeant named Jesse Ewing. In 581 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, he hears that two female inmates 582 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: at the city jail want to talk because they say 583 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:40,760 Speaker 1: they have knowledge about the murders and that higher ranking 584 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:45,359 Speaker 1: officers were directly involved at least in the cover up 585 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: of the murders. At this time, again in two thousand seven, 586 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 1: if we remember our timeline. There are four victims, and 587 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 1: this has really got you Ing. You know, he's got it. 588 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 1: It's got his mind really stirred up because he's already 589 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 1: had a lot of suspicions about stuff that's been going on. 590 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: Are things that he's felt were possible going on. Um, 591 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: he was concerned that the recording of you know, the interviews, 592 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: the tapes of these two particular inmates, might you know, 593 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: disappear in the same way that all this stuff like 594 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: the drugs, the cash, all those things in the evidence 595 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: locker and evidence room, all that stuff have been disappearing. 596 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 1: He was thinking, somebody's just going to erase this from 597 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 1: the from the records. So he ends up giving the 598 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 1: tapes to a private investigator named Kirkmannard and then he 599 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 1: in turn sent them onto the Federal Bureau of Investigation 600 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 1: office in Lake Charles. This plan backfires. It turns out 601 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 1: that Ewing is right not to trust his fellow officers 602 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: and his colleagues because the tapes end back up with 603 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: the Task Force m a I T. And Sergeant Dooing 604 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 1: has is concerned that there will be reprisals if he 605 00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:58,800 Speaker 1: if he goes through the regular channels. That's why I 606 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: went through a p I to the FBI. It turns 607 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 1: out he was right, because as soon as those tapes 608 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: end up at m a I T the Jefferson Davis 609 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:11,800 Speaker 1: District Attorney Office charges this sergeant with malfeasance in office 610 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,760 Speaker 1: as well as a trumped up charge of sexual misconduct. 611 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 1: The one of the female inmates who's on the audio 612 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 1: tapes says that he touches her inappropriately while they are recording. 613 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: These charges are later dismissed. The tapes contained specific information 614 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 1: about the murders of du Bois and Lopez, including allegations 615 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,919 Speaker 1: that law enforcement helped cover up the role of one 616 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:48,279 Speaker 1: Frankie Richard in at least one of the murders. So 617 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,640 Speaker 1: we get to a bit of secondhand information here. But 618 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 1: but it's interesting walk with us on this. So one 619 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 1: of the people on the tapes, who remains publicly unidentified today, 620 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,920 Speaker 1: says that she heard from a different person working in 621 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:08,240 Speaker 1: the sex trade uh that Richard and his niece Hannah 622 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:12,480 Speaker 1: Connor are the ones who killed Whitney Dubois. And Furthermore, 623 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:17,239 Speaker 1: this sex worker, Tracy, says that she was there the 624 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,359 Speaker 1: night it happened. She saw it occurring. She says they'd 625 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 1: all been getting high and when Dubois refused richards sexual advances, 626 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 1: he got aggressive. He started fighting with her, and when 627 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,279 Speaker 1: she started fighting back, he got on top of her 628 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:34,360 Speaker 1: and began punching her. According to this inmate, uh that 629 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 1: that's when the niece held held Dubois head back and 630 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: drowned her. Ordinarily, you could see why this should be 631 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:51,240 Speaker 1: treated with skepticism, right, Like, I'm an inmate in a jail. 632 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: I'm telling you that something. I'm telling you something someone 633 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:59,480 Speaker 1: else said to me and I wasn't there. There's just 634 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 1: another person that I know from the streets. It's probably 635 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: gonna be in jail later. Well, yeah, and if you 636 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:11,080 Speaker 1: think about the uh cost benefit thing there, right, are 637 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,440 Speaker 1: you gonna get? What are you getting in return for 638 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 1: giving information like that? Right? And if it comes back 639 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,399 Speaker 1: that oh wait, this person says that they didn't say that, 640 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: well then I mean all you have to say is, well, 641 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,080 Speaker 1: they must be mistaken because that's what they said to me, right, 642 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,360 Speaker 1: And what's the Yeah, it's here saying what's the motive? 643 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,040 Speaker 1: You know? Maybe they just have some kind of vindetta 644 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,440 Speaker 1: against the other person in the community and they want 645 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,200 Speaker 1: to get him jammed up. The problem is this tracks 646 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 1: with a confession that that same person who said she 647 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 1: was in the room made earlier that same year. The 648 00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:48,640 Speaker 1: two inmates claimed there was a conspiracy afoot that Frankie 649 00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,920 Speaker 1: Richard and a high ranking member of the Sheriff's office 650 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:57,520 Speaker 1: named Warren Gary worked together to destroy the evidence of 651 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 1: Lopez's murders. If that was true, they were probably working 652 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,239 Speaker 1: together in some other capacity, or at least there was 653 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:09,920 Speaker 1: a payoff, There was some benefit to to Warren Gary, 654 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:14,600 Speaker 1: if that is true, and Gary himself was never actually charged. 655 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,400 Speaker 1: In fact, he ended up getting promoted to run the 656 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:22,839 Speaker 1: evidence room. Yes, yeah, it's true, Like like think about that. 657 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:28,080 Speaker 1: It's again, it's it's not confirmed, all of this stuff, 658 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 1: but like just the perfect placement, if it were true, 659 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: to be to be placed there in charge of the 660 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,759 Speaker 1: evidence room. He ended up leaving the Sheriff's office some 661 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:41,880 Speaker 1: sometimes around two thousand twelve. Yes, and he's just there 662 00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:46,879 Speaker 1: are multiple other suspects. Brown found a multitude of allegations 663 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:53,640 Speaker 1: regarding the case. In These allegations were in various parts 664 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 1: of the task force reports, but they were not made 665 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,560 Speaker 1: public until his research brought them to life. And Mr Brown, 666 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,080 Speaker 1: if you were listening, thank you for your courage and 667 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 1: your diligent efforts. Here enter a fellow named Danny Barry. 668 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:13,400 Speaker 1: Before dying in at the age of sixty three. Danny 669 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 1: Barry worked for the Sheriff's office for twelve years. Three 670 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,040 Speaker 1: separate witnesses named him as a suspect in murders during 671 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:25,360 Speaker 1: interviews in two thousand and eight. They claimed first that 672 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,360 Speaker 1: Barry and his wife would drive around, pick up women 673 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:33,200 Speaker 1: off the street and then drug them, specifically spiked their drinks. 674 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:35,880 Speaker 1: Some of these women also said that Barry had a 675 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: room in his trailer cordoned off from the rest of 676 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,240 Speaker 1: the domicile, that there were chains hanging from the ceiling. 677 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,360 Speaker 1: This was a room people could quote not see in 678 00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:49,040 Speaker 1: or out of. Barry was interviewed by the task Force 679 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:53,480 Speaker 1: on February two thousand and nine. He was not asked 680 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:58,480 Speaker 1: about any of these allegations. Yeah, of course not. But 681 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,879 Speaker 1: then is oh gosh, it's so tough. It's so tough 682 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,680 Speaker 1: with these kinds of things because it just it's a 683 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,839 Speaker 1: cumulative effect, right, I mean, but that's the same thing 684 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:13,480 Speaker 1: that happened to Ethan Brown here too. With that's happening 685 00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,520 Speaker 1: to me, I think maybe to you listening to this, 686 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,000 Speaker 1: to to to Ben and all of us just it's 687 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:22,640 Speaker 1: a cumulative effect of feeling like something is fully rotten 688 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,560 Speaker 1: in in. I was gonna say, Denmark put in Jennings 689 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,680 Speaker 1: and you know, for this guy to be what what 690 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,359 Speaker 1: do we what was that quote there? We said he 691 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:37,359 Speaker 1: was not a suspect in three murders. He was brought up, 692 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,160 Speaker 1: was it? Um? They named him? He was named by 693 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:45,320 Speaker 1: somebody as a suspect in three of the Jennings eight murders. Uh, 694 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,920 Speaker 1: that's pretty weird. But then there's a whole other twist 695 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:53,440 Speaker 1: that you Ben, you found here, um something about one 696 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:57,360 Speaker 1: of the victims was present during a police shooting. So yes, 697 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:03,840 Speaker 1: So it turns out that there's another connection. So we 698 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,480 Speaker 1: have the hotel, the location through which they're often connected. 699 00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:13,280 Speaker 1: We have their acquaintances male female colleagues, fellow drug users 700 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,920 Speaker 1: and so on. And then we have an incident. In 701 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,759 Speaker 1: two thousand and five, police fatally shot a local drug 702 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:26,000 Speaker 1: dealer named Leonard Crochet. A grand jury investigated this shooting 703 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,040 Speaker 1: and determined that there was no probable cause for a 704 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,600 Speaker 1: charge of negligent homicide on the officers part or against 705 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,560 Speaker 1: the police at all in the case, even though the 706 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:39,840 Speaker 1: dealer was provably unarmed when he was murdered. Witnesses told 707 00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:45,640 Speaker 1: investigators multiple times that they believed police were killing victims 708 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,200 Speaker 1: who knew about how this shooting went down. At least 709 00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,440 Speaker 1: one of the Jennings eight was in the room when 710 00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,879 Speaker 1: when this when this fatal shooting occurred. And you can 711 00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,400 Speaker 1: read some read some pretty harrowing in depth that counts 712 00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:04,080 Speaker 1: of that. But if that is true, then it seems 713 00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:09,239 Speaker 1: that these victims were being murdered to cover up a 714 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:13,960 Speaker 1: dirty shooting, right, Uh? And then how dirty is the shooting? Well, 715 00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:17,759 Speaker 1: that depends on how dirty the law enforcement personnel were 716 00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:22,680 Speaker 1: we're working there. Well, yeah, well, here's we've kind of 717 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:24,920 Speaker 1: you know, if you were to believe some of the 718 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,600 Speaker 1: picture that's been painted here through this reporting, then you 719 00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:32,080 Speaker 1: may think, wow, I guess if you know they were 720 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:35,520 Speaker 1: gonna they if the police officers who were involved with 721 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,680 Speaker 1: some of this stuff did end up needing to take 722 00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:43,279 Speaker 1: somebody out with whom they were involved, um, then yeah, 723 00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:46,439 Speaker 1: you can just imagine how dirty the dealings actually were. 724 00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:50,960 Speaker 1: And there's this other thing here. A warden named Terry 725 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:55,360 Speaker 1: Guillory was trafficking some of the inmates, the female inmates, 726 00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:59,600 Speaker 1: for sex or you know, maybe it's like Richard said, 727 00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:03,160 Speaker 1: maybe he was just introducing them to men who wanted 728 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:09,000 Speaker 1: to exchange money. Old man who wanted money. Yeah, unclean. 729 00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,480 Speaker 1: And here's this other thing, um, Warren Gary who we 730 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,480 Speaker 1: were talking about up top there, he purchased a truck 731 00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:21,160 Speaker 1: on the cheap from a friend of Richard, the Richard 732 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,960 Speaker 1: Frankie Richard that we were talking about there, And this 733 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,759 Speaker 1: truck may have been used in a murder and then 734 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,560 Speaker 1: later sold. Just this is a thing. This is like 735 00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,200 Speaker 1: a let's just put that out there. I'm just saying 736 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:42,120 Speaker 1: kind of thing. Right. Also, Guillory is a cousin of 737 00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:48,239 Speaker 1: that last victim, Nicole Guillory. Um. Yeah. And again a 738 00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,759 Speaker 1: lot of this goes into things that we would have 739 00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,040 Speaker 1: to be we would have to call hearsay. Yeah, oh, 740 00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,080 Speaker 1: a ton of us is. There are very sketchy timelines, 741 00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:06,680 Speaker 1: strange relationships. But right now, despite these troubling things, there 742 00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:11,000 Speaker 1: are no convicted murderers in these in any of these cases, 743 00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,640 Speaker 1: and given the increasingly shady activities of law enforcement in 744 00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:19,160 Speaker 1: the investigation, it's no surprise that the then Sheriff Edwards 745 00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,280 Speaker 1: required all Task Force members to get swapped for DNA, 746 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,359 Speaker 1: if for nothing more than to put the public at ease. 747 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,880 Speaker 1: Tut tut, though, because it turns out that the results 748 00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,240 Speaker 1: of those DNA tests were never disclosed to the public 749 00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,760 Speaker 1: and have not been at the time of this recording. 750 00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,120 Speaker 1: This is where you come in. Public knowledge of the 751 00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:42,000 Speaker 1: story may help with the case. You know, It's been 752 00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:45,880 Speaker 1: covered pretty well in several different venues, most recently in 753 00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:49,360 Speaker 1: the two thousand five part documentary Murder in the Bio, 754 00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,960 Speaker 1: which you had mentioned earlier, Matt. But these these murders 755 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:57,360 Speaker 1: remain unsolved. Their numerous people pointing their fingers at folks 756 00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,520 Speaker 1: in the sex trade, folks in the drug trade, some 757 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,880 Speaker 1: people still pushing the serial killer narrative, and of course 758 00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:08,759 Speaker 1: people pointing their fingers at former members of law enforcement. 759 00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,400 Speaker 1: This is where we want to hear from you now, Claude, 760 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,680 Speaker 1: to answer the question you would asked us earlier, is 761 00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:19,760 Speaker 1: the Jennings h or the Jefferson Davis eight an inspiration 762 00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:27,080 Speaker 1: for True Detective Season one? There are some uh notable differences, 763 00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:30,920 Speaker 1: of course, because True Detective Season one is clearly a 764 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:35,600 Speaker 1: work of fiction, but the creator of the show, Nick Pizolatto, 765 00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:40,280 Speaker 1: says that he was not aware of the Jennings case 766 00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:45,880 Speaker 1: until after True Detective was coming out, and uh he 767 00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:50,640 Speaker 1: in fact tweeted about this approvingly inten when Ethan Brown 768 00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:54,359 Speaker 1: and his medium article UH noted that this felt like 769 00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:58,960 Speaker 1: a True Detective story, So we don't. We have not 770 00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:02,239 Speaker 1: found any statement, at least from the creator of the 771 00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:06,000 Speaker 1: show that he was inspired by this. However, we will 772 00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:10,560 Speaker 1: point out that during the run of True Detective season one, UH, 773 00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:18,200 Speaker 1: the creator came under some fairly serious criticism, including plagiarism 774 00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,480 Speaker 1: right for some of I think it was specifically some 775 00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:25,359 Speaker 1: of the dialogue Rust Cole speaks, right, And I can't 776 00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,160 Speaker 1: remember the writer from whom it was believed he was borrowing, 777 00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:32,600 Speaker 1: but it was that it's the weird fiction. H Thomas Ligotti. 778 00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:38,319 Speaker 1: That's it. That's it. Yeah. Um, you know there are 779 00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:43,000 Speaker 1: similarities here, for sure, but this whole the corruption within 780 00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,920 Speaker 1: the police department thing feels a little different to me. 781 00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,560 Speaker 1: I'm having a hard time fully recalling True Detective season one. 782 00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,480 Speaker 1: I think I need to rewatch it. It's fantastic. It's 783 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,680 Speaker 1: fantastic work, uh, and I'm glad that it's fiction. The 784 00:51:56,760 --> 00:52:00,240 Speaker 1: problem here, and I don't know not the not the problem. 785 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:06,240 Speaker 1: The complication here is that fiction has has a complicated 786 00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:11,120 Speaker 1: relationship with the truth. We have cases where real life 787 00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:14,680 Speaker 1: events become embellished and works of fiction, But then we 788 00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:19,120 Speaker 1: also have cases where works of fiction create real life 789 00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:23,160 Speaker 1: tragedies and crimes, such as the infamous slender Man stabbings. 790 00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:27,640 Speaker 1: Slender Man was, you know, is acknowledged to be an 791 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,839 Speaker 1: urban legend created on the Internet. The people who made 792 00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:34,080 Speaker 1: slender Man say that they made it and didn't quote 793 00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:38,960 Speaker 1: unquote discover it. Yes, um, but you know, in this case, 794 00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,160 Speaker 1: it's all it is that too. It's a lot of 795 00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,440 Speaker 1: people saying a lot of things without a ton of 796 00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,040 Speaker 1: evidence to back any of it up. And that's why 797 00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:50,360 Speaker 1: we're very much interested in what you think. To my money, 798 00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:54,080 Speaker 1: it feels like a combination of things that we've discussed here, 799 00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:58,200 Speaker 1: of people that may or you know, maybe implicated you know, 800 00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:02,120 Speaker 1: in very all very minor ways, and then others in 801 00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:05,120 Speaker 1: pretty major ways. And I still feel like that Frankie 802 00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:08,600 Speaker 1: Richards guy, yeah, he gives me just a bad feeling. 803 00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:15,719 Speaker 1: Frankie Richard, yeah, yeah, he Uh. Here's the thing. At 804 00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:21,840 Speaker 1: least eight people are dead, and the one of the 805 00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,200 Speaker 1: big questions is did they all know each other because 806 00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:26,400 Speaker 1: they just happened to run in the same circles, happened 807 00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:30,960 Speaker 1: to live in the same relatively small town or relatively 808 00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:37,319 Speaker 1: sparsely populated area. Uh, Were they all targeted? Right? We 809 00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:41,480 Speaker 1: know that this murder rate is incredibly high for the 810 00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:46,080 Speaker 1: population and it's abnormal. There's no way around it, no 811 00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:49,160 Speaker 1: matter who you think is responsible, there's no way around that. 812 00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:54,360 Speaker 1: I am going to voice my opinion. I believe that 813 00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:58,920 Speaker 1: police corruption is heavily involved if you look at the 814 00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:01,520 Speaker 1: track record and again, and this is no ding on 815 00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:05,279 Speaker 1: the people UH currently working in law enforcement, but if 816 00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,160 Speaker 1: you look at the track record of things that had 817 00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:13,240 Speaker 1: happened over the course of the decades leading to these murders, 818 00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:15,840 Speaker 1: and if you look at how the murders were handled, 819 00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:19,200 Speaker 1: then it seems to me fairly obvious that there was 820 00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:23,840 Speaker 1: at least some corruption and cover up at play. And 821 00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:27,160 Speaker 1: you know, it's tempting to say, well was this um 822 00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:31,560 Speaker 1: Were they killed by members of the drug trade? Where 823 00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:34,200 Speaker 1: they killed by members of law enforcement? When you can 824 00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:39,320 Speaker 1: get past a certain threshold of corruption, the drug trade 825 00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,480 Speaker 1: and law enforcement are very close to being the same 826 00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:45,279 Speaker 1: thing their fingers on a hand. Now, I'm not saying 827 00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:47,640 Speaker 1: there's a case like that, because you know, I've never 828 00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:51,200 Speaker 1: sold weight on the Interstate ten corridor. I've never had 829 00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:56,920 Speaker 1: to pay off a Louisiana member of law enforcement like specific, 830 00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:05,759 Speaker 1: giving it such specifics there, those are the specifics. Your 831 00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:11,680 Speaker 1: statement is just so specific. Oh do you think I've 832 00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:14,120 Speaker 1: got to say I seventy five that's a different story. No, No, 833 00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:17,000 Speaker 1: I just know, I'm just I'm just choking. I was 834 00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,759 Speaker 1: just hoping you would say I've never sold weight. I've 835 00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:28,319 Speaker 1: never I've never sold weight on the ITUN corridor, and 836 00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,600 Speaker 1: I've never made a deal with the good folks in 837 00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:35,560 Speaker 1: Jetting's Well. You know, sorry, I'm making light of it, 838 00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,160 Speaker 1: just because it is uncomfortable talking about the deaths of 839 00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:41,600 Speaker 1: individuals like this, where corruption, like you said, has a 840 00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:45,799 Speaker 1: track record, and it seems it seems that it at 841 00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:49,560 Speaker 1: least had some handed and Brown was onto something. Brown 842 00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,799 Speaker 1: is onto something. He was threatened. He did have to 843 00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:56,120 Speaker 1: stay out of the area for several months. It can 844 00:55:56,160 --> 00:56:01,040 Speaker 1: be it can be enormously dispiriting to admit that this 845 00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:04,400 Speaker 1: is a situation where the law has failed. Has the 846 00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:08,120 Speaker 1: law failed because it is imperfect or has the law 847 00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:11,640 Speaker 1: purposefully been made to fail? Here the fact that that 848 00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:14,759 Speaker 1: I I would argue that the fact that this these 849 00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:20,759 Speaker 1: crimes remain unsolved, presents us and presents you listening, an 850 00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:25,759 Speaker 1: opportunity to be part of the solution. Yes, so, uh, 851 00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,200 Speaker 1: contact us in whatever way you choose, or whatever way 852 00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:31,719 Speaker 1: you prefer the most. You can find us on Facebook 853 00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:35,000 Speaker 1: and Twitter and Instagram. We're conspiracy stuff on some of 854 00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:38,120 Speaker 1: those conspiracy stuff show on Instagram. If you don't want 855 00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:41,759 Speaker 1: to contact us that way, you can you can join 856 00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,600 Speaker 1: our Facebook group. That's a really great way to have discussions. 857 00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,239 Speaker 1: It's called Here's where it gets crazy. A lot of 858 00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:50,760 Speaker 1: fine people in that group. Um, even finer people running 859 00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:54,879 Speaker 1: it right there we go. Um. And if you don't 860 00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:56,640 Speaker 1: want to do that stuff, you can give us a call. 861 00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:01,080 Speaker 1: Our number is one eight three three T D W 862 00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:04,879 Speaker 1: Y T K and I leave us a message, tell 863 00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,920 Speaker 1: us your story. If you want to protect your identity, 864 00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:11,200 Speaker 1: call from a burner phone or a Google Voice number 865 00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,400 Speaker 1: or something like that, because I do see your numbers 866 00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:17,560 Speaker 1: when you call in. Just a word of warning. UM. 867 00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:19,400 Speaker 1: And if you don't want to do that, you can 868 00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:22,760 Speaker 1: send us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy 869 00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:44,480 Speaker 1: at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you 870 00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:47,160 Speaker 1: to know. Is a production of I heart Radio. For 871 00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:49,600 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart 872 00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,480 Speaker 1: radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 873 00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:53,160 Speaker 1: favorite shows.