1 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: severely bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening. Don't 3 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 1: eat podcast. You can't predict anything presented by first Light. 4 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: Go farther, stay longer, All right, Becky Humphries, UM, thanks 5 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: for coming on and talking to us, my pleasure. Can 6 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: you can you in a in a super quick fashion 7 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: or take as long as you want explain to people 8 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: what the National Wild Turkey Federation is? UM? And also 9 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: you know you can also throw in there how you are. 10 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: Is it still fair to say new? I hope? So yeah, 11 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: less than a year or so. I mean I started 12 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: in April at you. Yeah, so I talked about the 13 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: I talked about the n WTF people all the time. UM, 14 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: and people listen to the show. I've heard about it 15 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: a fair bit. But just yeah, give give what sort 16 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: of like your standard breakdown? Okay? Well, the National Wild 17 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:16,919 Speaker 1: Turkey Federation was formed back in nine. It was formed 18 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 1: to restore the wild Turkey and has grown to conserve 19 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:25,199 Speaker 1: our hunting heritage. So we are a nationwide nonprofit conservation 20 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: organization with volunteers and chapters in every state. UM, and 21 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: we we worked real hard on making sure there's really 22 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: good active habitat management across the country, and also that 23 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: we are bringing in the next generation a hunter, that 24 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: we're maintaining that continuity in our hunting public and and 25 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: growing the hunting sport. So for this last ten years, 26 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: well the last five years, on a ten year initiative, 27 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: we've been working on save the Habitat, Save the Hunt. 28 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: We're we put together some pretty lofty goals of restoring 29 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: and conserving four million acres a habitat, creating a million 30 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: and a half hunters, and opening up a half million 31 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: acres the hunting access, opening up a half million acres 32 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: tony access. So there's not public access now would become 33 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: public access according to the goal. Yep, that's correct. I 34 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: want to get into that. UM. But first back, like, 35 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: are you from Michigan. I am from Michigan, Okay, where well, 36 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: I lived all over the Lower Peninsula UM, spent a 37 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 1: lot of time in the up also, but might still 38 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: have a home north the Grand Rapids. Yeah. Yeah, I 39 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: was born in Moskeeton County, YEP, so it's just a 40 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: little further north. I went to regular college in in 41 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 1: in in Grand Valley, but lived in Grand Rapids for 42 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: a while yeah, well it's not very far. My home 43 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: is north of Lowell, Michigan, on the Flat River, and 44 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: I still have a home there, and I get back 45 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: there on a regular basis, and I have some of 46 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: my kids that still lived there. And you were, I 47 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: think in the years that I was trapesing around Michigan, 48 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,679 Speaker 1: you were involved in Michigan's Department of Natural Resources or 49 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: the the Michigan Fishing Game equivalent, right, I was. I was. 50 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: I had a thirty two year career there. I started 51 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: off as a field biologist, worked my way up was 52 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: Wildlife Division chief and and retired as the director of 53 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: both the d n R and um d e Q, 54 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: the environmental regulation as well as the Natural Resources Agency. 55 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: They were coming journey. It was like, when you started 56 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: out as a field biologist, what was the first thing 57 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: you were doing. I was managing waterfall areas. I managed 58 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: hiawassee um Maple River and grassh at Sagna in the 59 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: center part of the state. So I was very much 60 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: about active management on those managed wetland areas and grass 61 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: at Saginaw was the headwaters um you know, to the 62 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: Saginaw River and also Downlooking Glass into the Grand River 63 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: and So it was um doing grouse management, timber management 64 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: on those lands, writing management plans, working with private landowners, 65 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: setting hunting regulations and UM. I like challenge. So I 66 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: worked at a Grand Rapid size the district supervisor including 67 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: Muski and County for ten years. I had no idea 68 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: how what you were influencing my life? Yeah, there you go. 69 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: And so I was out of Grand Rapids off and 70 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: on for ten years. It kept pulling me into Lansing, 71 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: trying to get me to run statewide programs. And I 72 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: kept pushing back out and going out in the field 73 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: because I really liked the connection with the landowners and 74 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: in the sporting public out there. UM. And then what 75 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: was the biggest challenge about all that? I mean about 76 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,239 Speaker 1: about working at the you know, the state level, because 77 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: we're joking about this last night that you know, you 78 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: hear some you hear somebody like ill informed criticisms all 79 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 1: the time of of state agencies. In fact, it's like 80 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: like growing up in Michigan, the only thing you would 81 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: hear about then was like crazy theories and criticism. Oh yeah, 82 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: when I get a NonStop right, oh yeah, the conspiracy theory. 83 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: I mean we had when I started I remember hearing 84 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: people swear they saw green bands unloading coyotes in southern Michigan. 85 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: I mean they would swear up and down we would 86 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: drive in at night and unload kaya. That's the kind 87 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 1: of resemble and you'd be like, no, you guys, you 88 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: know it's it's these animals are adaptable and they're moving 89 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: back in, just like we're seeing changes and having black Bear, 90 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: you know, moved down into southern Michigan and more bobcat 91 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: down there. It's related to habitat change and animals are adaptable. 92 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 1: They moved back in. But people don't want to hear it, 93 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: you know, they if they haven't seen it, um, they 94 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: suspect that we have helped create it. Sometimes we have. 95 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: I mean the wild turkey is a great example. I 96 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: worked on live trapping wild turkey. And were you dumping 97 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: them out of green vans? No, we weren't jumping them 98 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: out a green vance. Know, they were cardboard boxes. They 99 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: had National Wild Turkey Federation on the side, and we 100 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,559 Speaker 1: did them. Went press, you know, we invited the press 101 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: out there, and we invited the public. No. No, in fact, 102 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: we tried real hard not to have it be secret. Um. 103 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: So you know, but you had that, you had everything 104 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: from that to over abundance issues. You know, at the 105 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 1: time when I was Wildlife Division getting criticism about overabundance, 106 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: where we had again we had deer, you know, throughout 107 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: Diego County. You know, that area tremendous pine plantation, but 108 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: there's not a you know, there's not anything for deer 109 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: to eat, and a lot of that that red pine 110 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: plantation that used to be in Oego County and a 111 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: deer had to pack a lunch and bring it with them. 112 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 1: But with real high deer numbers and with the prevalence 113 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: of baiting that was going on there, people could have 114 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: a little ten acre track and a red pine plantation 115 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,359 Speaker 1: and throughout some sugar beets and carrots and and have 116 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: a reasonable chance of seeing some deer. And as we 117 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: had more and more car deer accidents, it was costing 118 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 1: insurance companies and people with insurance a lot more money. 119 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: We started have disease issues with bovine tuberculosis and the 120 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: deer herd um. We started to bring that population down 121 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: to what we thought was sustainable on the landscape, and 122 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 1: that was tough for folks, tough that had gotten used 123 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: to really high deer numbers when uh, I don't want 124 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: to I don't want to indulge it, but I just 125 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:05,799 Speaker 1: want to know. Now obviously brought it up. I'm curious 126 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: about it. People like when people feel that, Okay, someone 127 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: is dumping like predators out, did you ever get like, 128 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: what what what the idea is that they're after? Um? Like? 129 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: What the what? Like? What the perceived motivation for it was? No? UM, 130 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: I think I think they just thought was government, you know, 131 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: trying to mess with their life to Yeah, and inconvenience. 132 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: They didn't. They clearly didn't like those predators on the 133 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: landscape and they had to blame somebody for it, and 134 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: not just that they would just drift in on their own. Yeah. 135 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: So when you were like when you were with Michigan UM, 136 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: with the Department Natural Resources of Michigan, you were probably 137 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: aware of National Wild Turkey federations because you would have 138 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: been through all the turkey. Oh yeah, yeah, I I 139 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: mean I remember Dr James Earl Kinnemer came to Michigan 140 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: to talk to us about UM bringing in wild stock 141 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: from other states. We populations at that time down an 142 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: elegant up in Baldwin, A few birds up in Um 143 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: the Alpina area that came from Pennsylvania game farm stock, 144 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: and they were they were a little focused populations. They 145 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: weren't growing. We haunted them, but they you know, they 146 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: weren't doing much, to be honest with you. Those are 147 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: the ones that the Baldwin ones are the ones that 148 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: I remember. And it was that you know, you could 149 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: apply for tags. Remember one of my brother like drew 150 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: one of those tags and went up with his body 151 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: and they kind of messed around and never got a 152 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: bird brown trou But then all of a sudden, it 153 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: was just like I left the state and and moved 154 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: out west. Then all of a sudden was just like 155 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: someone through the light switch man and my dad was 156 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: hunting turkeys a mile from our house. And that ever year, 157 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: it seemed to happen just like overnight, it did. It 158 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: happened very quickly. Um. We brought in birds from Iowa 159 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: and UM a few other states. We released those in 160 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: some areas that we thought had really good turkey habitat 161 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: in it. They took off. They just went gang busters. 162 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: And then we would go in and trap some of 163 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: those birds after they were established and relocate them to 164 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: other areas and then continue to do that across um 165 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: historical turkey range in Michigan and then started opening it 166 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: up to turkey hunting. And then we continue to do 167 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: trap and transfer as we opened it up to hunting, 168 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: to get people used to the concept that you don't 169 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: you know, you can hunt, especially you can hunt in 170 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: the spring where you're hunting those males and um, and 171 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: still restore that population into remaining habitat simultaneous. How do 172 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: you get like, when you say identified turkey habitat, how 173 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: do you guys define turkey habitat? Well, you know, in 174 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: the early days, I remember, UM, we thought you needed 175 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: to have much more extensive blocks of wooded habitat because 176 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: in Michigan, a lot of the presettlement observations, you know, 177 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: when as early settlers came in and talked about the 178 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: abundant turkey populations, it was in the big woods. And 179 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: I think that really those observations came because in that 180 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: mixed agricultural land of southern Michigan, people had hunted him out, 181 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: you know, UM or poached him out or whatever was 182 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: going on at the time. They weren't regulated and so 183 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: because of that, people thought they probably took much more 184 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: extensive wooded habitat than they than they do take. And 185 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: so when we first started on it, we asked that 186 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: same question to Dr James Earl Kennemer, and his comment was, 187 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: you know, this looks like habitat where we find birds 188 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: in the southern United States. Put them out here and 189 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: try it. And we found that they were highly adaptable. 190 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: But they did better in some of those areas where 191 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: you had open glades and you had not real thick 192 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 1: um young forests. They would use some of the habitat 193 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: at times, but where we could open it up, and 194 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: southern Michigan used to have what we call a lot 195 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: of oaks savannah. It's much like pine savannah that you 196 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: find in the South, where it was a low stocking 197 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: of oaks and then a lot of grasses and forbes 198 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: on the forest floor. Now on a lot of like 199 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: early successional shrubs and heavy cover where a bird can't 200 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: see but or it gets enough daylight, get a lot 201 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: of insect life, You get a lot of variety in there. 202 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: You get those early forbes that come up in the springtime. 203 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: They love that. And so as we got birds and 204 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: learn more about what they were using, we actually went 205 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: into some of the game areas that were really heavily 206 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: stocked forest management areas and heavily um real dense forests. 207 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: So by stock I mean just a stocking of trees 208 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: UM and we opened some of those up, we thinned 209 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: them out. We put fire on that landscape where in 210 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: the spring, usually during the beginning of the growing season, 211 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,959 Speaker 1: we'd run cool fires, low fires through that forest floor, 212 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: so it would take out a lot of the old 213 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: you know, the snags and the dead vegetation, put nutrients 214 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: back in the soil, and really increase that grassy forb 215 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: cover that was on the forest floor. And they loved it. 216 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: I mean they just took off. Some of those areas 217 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: are just prime hunting at this point. Yeah, everything loves it, right, Yeah, 218 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: I mean deer did really well in it, Turkeys have 219 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 1: done well in it. I mean it just is um 220 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: and even their insects. I mean, we have um some 221 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: of the corner blue and Mitchell saeder butterflies that are 222 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: really heavily dependent on loop and nectar sources, and that 223 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: loop and seed bank was out there. It was just 224 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: being um because we were not providing enough daylight and 225 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: running fire through the system. We really had not re 226 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 1: established what had been native vegetation there, So it's kind 227 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: of what's good for the bird scenario. Yeah, and to me, 228 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 1: there's no more beautiful landscape out there than those savannahs. 229 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:47,319 Speaker 1: You know, I love like big cottonwood savannas and uh 230 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: you have those big oak savannahs where you can see 231 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,559 Speaker 1: away and see him. It's going to say, that's a 232 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: nice part of it. You can really get some visibility, 233 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 1: you can see, they're they're very aesthetic and we've lost 234 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: a lot of those. So it's been nice that not 235 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 1: only in Michigan, but you know throughout the South we're 236 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: restoring a lot of the pine savannah's down there and 237 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: getting those historical long leaf you know, um savannah's out 238 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: on the landscape and running fire through them and they're 239 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: very um, they're very special places. Yeah, you might be 240 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: familiar with the Crotan in North Carolina. My in laws 241 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: living not far from there, so we go when we're there, 242 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: we go for walks and borgeous area, just gorgeous. Do 243 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: you understand the history, I'm sure you do of how 244 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: early on when people are trying to re establish turkeys 245 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: they would use domestic birds, not domestic birds but they'd 246 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: use like, uh, you know, wild birds raised in captivity, 247 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: but it wouldn't it wasn't very effective. No, you breed 248 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't take very long in a breeding 249 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: program that you breed out a lot of the characteristics 250 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 1: that make wild birds successful um meaning paranoia, paranoia and 251 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 1: flightiness and the pens birds that that tend to do 252 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: well and activity, um and and have the genetic makeup 253 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: there calm and behavior and the rest of it, they 254 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: just don't do that well in the wild. I mean 255 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 1: there what would be the things that would happen when 256 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,439 Speaker 1: you cut them loose? They just wouldn't reproduce the population. 257 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: They you'd have young, but you just didn't get above 258 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: that critical threshold where the population was filling the capacity 259 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: of the landscape. So they you know, they'd be there 260 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: and you'd have them, but they just didn't ever get 261 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: the kind of brood size you wanted. They didn't know 262 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: the survival and they didn't ever expand their range. So 263 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: initially they yeah, I guess I wouldn't call it lazy. 264 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: They just were not competitive against other species that were 265 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: out there, um And so as a result of that, 266 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: they got picked off by a number of predators. They 267 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: just didn't have the survival capability bread in them to 268 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: really do really well. So what like, how did the 269 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: breakthrough play out where people realize if you go and 270 00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: just capture wild birds and then very quickly move them 271 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: to a location, that those birds do good. Well, there's 272 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: a there was technology that made that available and the 273 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: pure wild birds. If you try and live trap birds 274 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: wild birds using a drop net or some of the 275 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: other early methods of trapping, you're unsuccessful. I mean, your 276 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: ability to catch those birds as they are so weary 277 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: trying to walk, have them walk under a net is impossible. 278 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: You know, it's just really really Oh yeah, yeah, there's 279 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: just like no way. And so they recognize. So as 280 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: we we got to the point where we started using 281 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: some rocket net techniques early on to capture um. Actually 282 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: they were first developed to do some of the waterfall trapping, 283 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: and when we brought that on land, concealed the net, 284 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: used rocket nets propellants to shoot a net over top 285 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: of those birds. That's when we were able to start 286 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: going and really capturing some of those pure wild stock 287 00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: that we're still found in remnant populations throughout this southeastern 288 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: and central part of the United States, and so that 289 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: technology allowed us then to go in and capture those 290 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: birds and begin that relocation program. Before that, I mean, 291 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: you couldn't get enough birds captured to really jump start 292 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: those populations and then move them around. So that's what 293 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: really kicked it in the high gear bringing the turkey back, 294 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: that's right. And so, and we had to train all 295 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: of our folks, you know, on how to use those 296 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: explosive devices. We had to get you know, certified, we 297 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: had to have placards. In the early days, we were 298 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: doing it all, you know, unregulated. There really weren't regulations 299 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: again for wildlife biologists use explosives and the rest of it, um, 300 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: like anything in society. After you do it for a while, 301 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: we have more and more regulations. So now how we 302 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: store those explosives, how we carry them on placard vehicles, 303 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: getting people certified, all the rest of it as part 304 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: of the daily life of a wildlife biologists, those kind 305 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: of the wild West. At first, that's well, yeah, it 306 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: wasn't it for the good old days. The good old days, 307 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: I mean it wasn't. Um, you're pretty careful with it. 308 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 1: I mean, when you're dealing with explosives like that. Um, 309 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: you've got to be pretty careful, and you want to 310 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: work with people that were also careful so that as 311 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 1: you're setting up those nets, that you're not inadvertently in 312 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: front of that net, because you those nets have weights 313 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: on the front of them, and that's what they shoot, 314 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: that weight out and you can, I mean, you can 315 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: hurt somebody pretty badly or kill them if they're out 316 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: front of it. And you don't want to be around 317 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: anybody had an itchy trigger finger, because you get a 318 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 1: few birds in under the net, you're waiting for the 319 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: rest of the flock to come in. If you set 320 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: it off too soon or too late, you're going to 321 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: have an empty net or one or two birds underneath 322 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 1: of it. So is they're like pretty high mortality on 323 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: the birds and you're shooting the rocket nets. Um. Not 324 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: if you do it right. I mean occasionally you'll have 325 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: some mortality, um. But but typically it's when a bird 326 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: picks up and tries to fly and it get in 327 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: the net the front of it, the weight catches it. 328 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: But most of the time, if you if you can 329 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 1: time it right and those birds are in there and 330 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,199 Speaker 1: you've baited long enough, I mean, typically we do the 331 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 1: trapping in the winter months, when those birds are pretty stressed, 332 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 1: we put out bait. We get them to the point 333 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 1: where they're comfortable coming in debate and they start to 334 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 1: relax a little bit, and then go ahead and trap them. 335 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: But if you get itchy or you know, a little 336 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: trigger itchy or a little um hurried in the whole proposition, 337 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: you're most likely going to be unsuccessful or not as 338 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: successful as you would have liked. So when they when 339 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 1: you fire that thing, what's a good catch? Like? How? 340 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 1: What like? What's it like? It depends on how many 341 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 1: birds do you have in there? UM, You know there 342 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: there are times that you might just get four or 343 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: five birds. There are other times you might get um, fifteen, 344 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: sixteen birds in there. UM. Rarely do you get more 345 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: than two dozen birds in there, but you know a 346 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:49,239 Speaker 1: dozen or or less UM is more typical. And so 347 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: it's about where those birds are they typically UM And 348 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: depends on parts of the country too. In some areas 349 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 1: birds really flock up bigger, bigger groups. In other places 350 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: you don't get big fly in the winter months. Really, 351 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: when you you can like tailor this to two experiences 352 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 1: you had in Michigan or wherever else. That makes sense 353 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: that you kind of know the timeline. But if you 354 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 1: go into an area that has no turkey. So so 355 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: when when the Nationale Turkey Federation was involved in in 356 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: UM in bringing birds into new locations where there were 357 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: no turkeys on the ground at all, and you bring 358 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: in a population and establish a population, what's the timeline 359 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,199 Speaker 1: before you can start tapping that population to expand in 360 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: other directions. We usually by the second year we were 361 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 1: in there, we're trapping a few birds out of it, 362 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,199 Speaker 1: and some of those areas depending on how UM in 363 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: the early years, I'm trying to remember how many years 364 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: it was before we opened up hunting, but really it 365 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: was within the first five years UM that you could 366 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 1: be hunting within five years, Yeah, it was pretty amazing, 367 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: but we had pretty extensive trapping going on to relocate, 368 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: trying and fill all the available habitat. We continue to 369 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: bring in some additional birds from out of state, so 370 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: we were doing pretty extensive management with that, and right 371 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 1: alongside it at that time, UM, we grew the sport 372 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: of turkey hunting too. I mean there were always a 373 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: few folks that went because we had turkeys to Michigan. 374 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 1: They would go hunting, but we didn't have anywhere near 375 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: the number of turkey hunters at that point in time 376 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: as we do today. It's the turkey hunting is one 377 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 1: of the entry points for hunters um in many parts 378 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: of the country, including Michigan, deer in Turkey, or the 379 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: two entry points where it used to be small game. 380 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: You know, through the forties, fifties, and sixties, it was 381 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: usually pheasant hunting, squirrel and rabbit. Now it's moved over 382 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 1: to deer in Turkey or the points of entry. Yeah, 383 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like the Turkey even though 384 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 1: it's a spring activity, I feel like it's siphoned off 385 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: a lot of small game interests somehow, like traditional small game, 386 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: you know. I mean like I feel like, like growing 387 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: up pretty Turkey, there's so much like squirrel and rabbit hunting. 388 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: But then the deer hunting just got better and better 389 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: and better better, and so all these like big things 390 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 1: like turkeys around everywhere. Deer hunting got really good. I 391 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 1: think I think it was also the demographic changes and 392 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: the you know, we're now three generations off the farm 393 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: or ranch, and I think people that lived on the 394 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 1: farm did small game hunting on a more regular activity. 395 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: They go out back to the woodlot and kill a 396 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: few squirrel and and have use it for food. They 397 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,479 Speaker 1: go rabbit hunting through the winter months and use it 398 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: for food. And now people have to make it. Most 399 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 1: people do not live on the land where they hunt, 400 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: and so you have to be pretty directed and also 401 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: with their time involved with it. They tend to go 402 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 1: out for the big seasons and shorter windows of time 403 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: and with it, I think there has been a decline 404 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,199 Speaker 1: in small game hunting, which is too bad because I 405 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: think it still is a wonderful way. I think turkey 406 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: hunting is a wonderful way to start hunting, but I 407 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: also think small game hunting is awesome way to start. Yeah, 408 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: I found that turkey hunting is a great way to 409 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: introduce people. Oh yeah, it's because it's just like fun. 410 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: Well it's fun and you can you know, you can 411 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: sit right behind him or right near them. Um, it's 412 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't require them trying to wing shoot a bird, 413 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: you know, while they're walking through cover and the rest 414 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 1: of it. So trying to get that coordination together and 415 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 1: some of the skill sets as early shooters do is 416 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: nice for it. Um, there's an anticipation, which I think 417 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: is absolutely awesome. I mean, we've all we've all been 418 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: there where you're calling a bird and you can hear 419 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: it coming in, and you're waiting and waiting, and by 420 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 1: the time that bird comes in, your heart's pounding between 421 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: your ears and you're so excited, you know, to have 422 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: it come in. And I think that hooks people. Yeah, 423 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: being out, it's all warm, it's one. Yeah, that's not 424 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: the fun part of it. But I got two questions. 425 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: One I just want to lay out because I don't 426 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,360 Speaker 1: want to forget it, and the other one was gonna 427 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,199 Speaker 1: take a little of time. But so I'm saying both 428 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 1: knocks and before I'm gonna forget it, I'll remember that one. Um. 429 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: Someone once told me, I want to check if you 430 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: if this is true to your to your understanding. Someone 431 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,959 Speaker 1: once told me that they're talking about just like the 432 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: attrition of turkeys, right, and they're saying that that if 433 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: a turkey lays eggs on the ground, right, the eggs 434 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: bill the eggs that hit the ground roughly seventy percent 435 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: never hatch of the eggs that hit the ground. Are 436 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: they talking about all their predation and everything, predation and 437 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: everything else and they're kind of like and then they 438 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: extended out and they said, of the ones that hatch, 439 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: this is a Turkey biologist told me this, of the 440 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 1: ones that hatch, about seventy s won't make it to 441 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: their first year. Well, that second figure is definitely true. 442 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: The first figure. You know, we do have a lot 443 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 1: of nest mortality and the rest of it, and you 444 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: have young birds that are they're not putting their nests, 445 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: and then the best locations sometimes and your marginal habitat. 446 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: I'd have to look at the overall figures. That's probably 447 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: a little high, but not too far off. But they'll 448 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: drop multiple rounds of eggs though if they will, if 449 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: they're unsuccessful, they'll go back in and renst And so 450 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: here's no question get on the more of the sort 451 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 1: of sort of the work to found dation does. But 452 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 1: but when you if you that female only lays one 453 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: egg a day, correct, so she goes does she need 454 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: to does she need to breed for every egg? No, 455 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 1: she can hold she can hold some of that breeding in. Okay, 456 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 1: so she can be inseminated by one male, but then 457 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: lay a dozen eggs twelve days in a row. That's right, 458 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 1: But she's gonna probably breed within that time period of 459 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: I see, okay, so she'll can like she'll continue to 460 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: go out and court a male, but then keep laying 461 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,439 Speaker 1: these eggs and then if this is I think this 462 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: is right, she'll get the whole nest down and she 463 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: doesn't incubate until all the eggs are down because she 464 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: wants to synchronize when they have and those eggs remain viable, 465 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: just like they do for chickens anybody that raises chickens 466 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: and stuff. The first egg that hits the ground is 467 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: sitting there potentially ten eleven days. That's right before she starts, 468 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: and it can be dropping down below freezing at night. Yeah, 469 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: I mean she'll but still it remains viable most of 470 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: the times at that point it's not below freezing, and 471 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: those eggs are covered and they usually have insulation underneath them. Um, 472 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: but they are vulnerable because she's out there doing breeding 473 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: and feeding and all the rest of it. She's not 474 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: on that nest really incubating those eggs, so there's higher risk. 475 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: That's why you're seeing that loss. At one time was 476 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: calling a turkey and had a black bear sneak up 477 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: right behind me to why I could hear exhale, and 478 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: I'm convinced that that bear hunts bird nests could have Yeah, 479 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: like everything has to eat the eggs, they're tasty, everything 480 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: from snakes on. Uh. Yeah, it's it's not a kind life, 481 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: is not a kind life. I'm having a hard time 482 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: kind of reading Becky's demeanor right now, like when she's 483 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: when you brought up the black bear, kind of kind 484 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: of changed a little bit, like weird animals show up 485 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: when you're calling turkeys. Oh yeah, oh yeah, I've called 486 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 1: him bears, bobcats, and coyotes. Yeah. This past season, I 487 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: was out with my grandson and we called into coyotes 488 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: and I thought he was going to he was just 489 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: so excited. I could see him just kind of start 490 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 1: to quiver, you know, because those those coyotes snuck up 491 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: on the decoy and we're sure that it was a turkey, 492 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: and one of them pounced right by it, and then 493 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 1: you could see the reaction like, oh, my goodness, isn't 494 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: that really a turkey? And the coyote jumped up and 495 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: then went down and then kicked up this young buck 496 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: that was bedded down further, and it was just one 497 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: of these you know, it was just kind of a mess. 498 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: It was a circus out there, and I started laughing 499 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: because it was you know, you couldn't help but laugh 500 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: at all this activity going on with these animals that 501 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: were just being spooked and and um and tricked, I 502 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: guess the best way to describe it. So it's fun though, 503 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: But when you I did change my behavior when you 504 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:06,239 Speaker 1: said you could feel the bare exhale, that's when I 505 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,479 Speaker 1: was like, okay, I've been there where you have an 506 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: animal like right behind you, like if you turn around, 507 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 1: you could practically hit it. And it's like, you know, 508 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 1: sometimes it's amazing to me when you're out hunting, how 509 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: something's just crashed through the woods and then they vanish. 510 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: You know, we always had property in northern Michigan, and 511 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: elk were one of those species where there were times 512 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: when it sounded like a flight freight train coming through 513 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: the woods and then the next thing you know that 514 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: animals gone and you never heard it go. You didn't 515 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,679 Speaker 1: see it go, and it's like, oh my good, did 516 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,239 Speaker 1: they turn it on? And yeah, well they want to go. 517 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: They can make more noise than you'd ever be able 518 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: to make, and then they can be quieter than that's right, 519 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,439 Speaker 1: that's right. When you can check my facts on this too, 520 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 1: But I think this is correct that it's time of 521 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 1: European contact. There were turkeys and maybe thirty nine states, 522 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 1: it's about right, and that shrunk like a lot of 523 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: states lost them out right, they did so when when 524 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: groups so so state agencies just focused on their own state. 525 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: But eventually the National wal Turkey Federation, National Turkey Foundation 526 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,400 Speaker 1: comes in and they're gonna kind of oversee and implement 527 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 1: these reintroduction efforts. Yeah, we coordinated it, and it is federation, 528 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: not foundation, so that's all right. So and that's why 529 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 1: we have these chapters in all the states. But we 530 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: really coordinated that the states were one they needed. Um. 531 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 1: We stepped in and helped broker deals so that states 532 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: would would give up their birds to start populations and 533 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: other states. And then it came with the expectation. For instance, 534 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: in Michigan, we took birds from Missouri and Iowa and 535 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: other states and then when we restored our populations, we 536 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: live trapped birds and moved them to other states. So 537 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: we helped broker those deals. And under the Lacy Act, 538 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: you cannot um, you can not pay money for wildlife, 539 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: for live wildlife between the states, so all kinds of 540 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: deals were brokeren. Was that why it's done like that? 541 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: Why the barter of barter system came about. Yeah, we 542 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: we wanted to stay within the federal law system and 543 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: yet provide that equity so that states could help barter 544 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: various wildlife species. So I mean in my tenure, we 545 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: we wound up trading otters, we wound up trading elk 546 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: at times, um rough grouse that we trapped for some 547 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: of the other states, turkeys, pheasants we had such one 548 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: pheasants we brought over from China. We trapped those. So 549 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: the Turkey Federation helped also become the bartering agent between 550 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: the states where we would help allow that that trade 551 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: system to go on and make sure that we stay 552 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: sting at themselves in trouble with federal law. In terms, 553 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: can you explain that comes up a lot when it 554 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: comes to wildlife because it winds up being the tool 555 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: you often use to really go after hardcore poets and 556 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: wildlife traffickers. The Lacey Act was really the act that 557 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: was put in place that shut down market hunting up 558 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: until that time. States wound up passing individual state laws 559 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: that precluded market hunting. But what would happen is they 560 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: would move that product right across the state lines and 561 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: then they'd um, they'd sneak it out, and then because 562 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: of that, they couldn't catch them in another state. So, 563 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: for instance, to use Michigan again as an example, UM 564 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: at one time that you know, they'd take um saddles 565 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: of venison during the lumbering era. They'd go out and 566 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: they shoot deer and and take those saddles of venison 567 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: down the saddle and they'd and they'd move it across 568 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: and take it down to Chicago to feed people in 569 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: the restaurants down there. And it would you know, they 570 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: might be taking more than the limit, they might be 571 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: taking them out of season. Whatever the market hunters were 572 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: doing that particular area. Maybe it was just they were 573 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: it was closed all together. They would ship them out 574 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: and once they got across that state line, there's nothing 575 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: that could be done about it. So the Lacey Act 576 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: was a federal a that made it illegal to move 577 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: that if it was against the law in that state, 578 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: and made it illegal if you moved across state lines also, 579 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: so it really interconnected the state authorities through federal authorities, 580 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: federal enforcement. But it's funny when like the motivation of 581 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: that right is to curtail the eradication of American wildlife, 582 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: but then to later have it be a hindrance to 583 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: wildlife recovery by prohibiting someone from buying turkeys from someone 584 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: who had more than they needed. Well, you know, it 585 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: really goes to the North American model wildlife conservation. Um. 586 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: In our country, wildlife belonged to the people. So um, 587 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: it's about a premise that those those species are not 588 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: private commodity that you can move and breed. Now we 589 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: have some private wildlife and some of some of its 590 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: native wildlife, but it's still pretty contentious. It's about keeping 591 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: that pure wild stock so that it belongs to the 592 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: people and it's treated as belonging to the people, and 593 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: that we are not putting a praise on it and 594 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: selling it between states or then could move into private ownership, 595 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: that it stays a wildlife resource. So that's why the 596 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: Bowder system was put in place. And like I say, 597 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: you know, it's about playing by the rules. Also, Yeah, 598 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: and it's not like I'm sure that anyone who ever 599 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: wanted to get turkeys probably found a way to get turkeys. 600 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:33,959 Speaker 1: They probably did. I mean, that was one of our 601 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: biggest problems when we were restoring the wild turkey in Michigan. 602 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: Is um people want to even sporting clubs really want 603 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: to jump on the bandwagon and help out. And they 604 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: go out and buy, you know, broad bronze, broad breasted 605 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: turkeys that looked much like the eastern wild turkey. They'd 606 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 1: raise them and they put them out there, and they'd 607 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: be like, no, no, no, no, We're going to all 608 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: this effort to bring in wild stock. We want great 609 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: genetic variability with these animals. We want animals are truly wild. 610 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: Do not to loose the jenet pool by throwing out 611 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: domesticated birds that look like wild birds that will interbreed 612 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: with wild birds, and it's gonna it's gonna reduce the 613 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: genet viability of that wild stock out there. I gotta 614 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: ask you way far afield question you don't need to answer. 615 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: Maybe you can tell me how I find the answer. 616 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: Since you now have state and asked it's not I'll 617 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: ask so, since you now have deer like white tailed 618 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: deer that are privately owned, how was the initial moment 619 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: of someone taking possession of one of those deer. However 620 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: it began, how is the initial moment of that legal? 621 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: Some states actually sold dear to private individuals. So that's 622 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: how some of that because I was look back like 623 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: to the day one Eden moment, someone had to have 624 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: taken a wild deer and made it, but there used 625 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: to be a mechanism in place for that to happen. Yeah, 626 00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: and and um my state, unfortunately, Michigan was one of 627 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: those states that did that. We used to individuals that 628 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 1: want to defense our property to have a captive herd, 629 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,399 Speaker 1: which was still legal in Michigan. We would require them 630 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: to try and drive those deer off the property, but 631 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 1: if they were unsuccessful and they still had deer on 632 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: the property, we would have them write a check for 633 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 1: those remaining deer that they were fencing it. And the 634 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 1: intent was we didn't want we didn't want them fencing 635 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: the state's deer with no um, no restitution to the 636 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,399 Speaker 1: hunters of the state, of the public of the state 637 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: for those animals. So I mean it was the best 638 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: of intentions, but it essentially took pure wild stock and 639 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: made it under private ownership. And I mean the captive 640 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: industry has grown considerably and um, they're considered livestock under 641 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 1: federal authority and many state authorities. Now, uh, do you 642 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: remember what a deer was worse? I don't. I I 643 00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: do know, Um, after we had done it for a while. 644 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 1: They're about thousand dollars apiece. But you know, we tried 645 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: to make it comparable to what um restitution would be 646 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: for somebody took a deer out of state or out 647 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 1: of season. Now back up to the like the gradual 648 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: recovery of the bird once it got to be that 649 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: like for instance, now earlier I said, like, so you 650 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 1: agree that it sounds a reasonable number that there are 651 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: wild turkeys, maybe about thirty nine states. Um. The ones 652 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 1: that didn't would be like the sort of the north 653 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,759 Speaker 1: the states in the northwest quadrant of the country, primarily 654 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: in the western part of the United States, but the 655 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: Southwest had birds, they had some birds. Um. Really the 656 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: holdout for a lot of the populations, though we're in 657 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: really remote areas. So in the eastern United States you 658 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 1: wound up having places, um, you know, in Tennessee, Kentucky 659 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 1: and some of those really you know on Appellachians, some 660 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: of those hilly areas, um, where you had some really 661 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,319 Speaker 1: good remnant populations where those birds held out and those 662 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: really became um the breeding stock that moved out in 663 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 1: for Eastern the Eastern birds throughout the same thing is 664 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: true if some of the western populations and some of 665 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,879 Speaker 1: those really remote areas you wound up having birds where 666 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: you had pretty isolated populations because there was vast areas 667 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 1: of um, not good habitat and and really just no birds. UM, 668 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 1: So they kept pretty isolated. So what was like, like, 669 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: how did the thinking go to be that that reintroduction 670 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:40,720 Speaker 1: of turkeys would would would phase into introduction the turkeys 671 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,400 Speaker 1: would be brought into states where they had not historically 672 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:50,360 Speaker 1: historically had no turkeys. So Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, 673 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,760 Speaker 1: all these places now have like thriving turkey populations. That 674 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: that one that had to have been a very different conversation. 675 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,240 Speaker 1: Um it was and what then what rein production was? Yeah, 676 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 1: but don't forget along with this. There was quite a 677 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: bit of research done to look at what had happened 678 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 1: just just because we didn't see it in early documentation. 679 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:14,280 Speaker 1: If you look back through in some of the Aboriginal populations, 680 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: the native populations that were there, we found turkeys in 681 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 1: many areas that folks didn't didn't find it when European 682 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: settlers were here, But they were there prior to that, 683 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,360 Speaker 1: whether you know, whether they were extirpated for um, because 684 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: of humans or whether it was habitat change or whatever 685 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,400 Speaker 1: it was, there were birds and most of those areas 686 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 1: at one time. Okay, So so there's like like faunel 687 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: remains in middens and whatever archaeological sites are just in 688 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 1: general that didn't match up necessarily to where people documented 689 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:52,799 Speaker 1: seeing that birds. That's right. Ask just what is um 690 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: the ability for a wild you know, a wild turkey 691 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: to travel and establish a new group. Well, I mean 692 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,880 Speaker 1: it depends on the habitat, To be honest with you, 693 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: it varies greatly, um so bird in terms of birds 694 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 1: movements and all the rest of it. You know, it 695 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: might just be um depending on how much that flock 696 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: is expanding. If it's an expansion for relocation, those birds 697 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,279 Speaker 1: might just move a few miles. In other areas they 698 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: might move, um, you know, eight or ten miles. And 699 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 1: do they disperse because of pecking order situation or primarily 700 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: breeding habitat, nesting habitat of those hens um To really 701 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:37,440 Speaker 1: get really good nesting habitat and having nesting territory and 702 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: a breeding territory there just about all your wildlife will 703 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 1: will set up some territories and that really goes to expansion. 704 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,240 Speaker 1: And a lot of times it's the younger hens that 705 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:52,959 Speaker 1: put their territory immediately adjoining where there their hen, their 706 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 1: mom's territory was. And you see the same thing with deer. 707 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,479 Speaker 1: So with that you see this expansion that goes out. 708 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,279 Speaker 1: Um with the female part of the population expanding out 709 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,359 Speaker 1: through that breeding, the males will travel further because they 710 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,359 Speaker 1: want to breed where there are females and they're much 711 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 1: more mobile. What's the furnest you've ever seen a female 712 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 1: and or a male turkey travel from from from where? 713 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 1: You know? What's like home range was? Well, you know, 714 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 1: at the time we are doing a lot of trap 715 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,240 Speaker 1: and transfer. We were not doing a lot of transmitter work. Um, 716 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 1: it just was not one of those studies that we 717 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: we were investing our time and efforts and trying and 718 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,359 Speaker 1: re establish and get those populations. So I can't give 719 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 1: you good information like I can some of the other 720 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: species on the maximum amount of travel. Now we have 721 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: colored birds down on our facility down in Edgefield, South 722 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: Carolina or headquarters facility, and we've done movement patterns and 723 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 1: we know daily travels or you know, um several miles 724 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,319 Speaker 1: as far as how those birds move. We've actually put 725 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: transmitters and birds and we've it transmitters on hunters and 726 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 1: then we've watched those the dance as we call it, 727 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,839 Speaker 1: and it's it's pretty amazing. You know, where hunters will 728 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 1: go into a piece of property and they either don't 729 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,759 Speaker 1: think there are turkeys there or they don't see turkeys, 730 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:17,239 Speaker 1: and there's actually pretty good turkey populations and those those 731 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,680 Speaker 1: birds are masters and avoiding human detection. And you can 732 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 1: you can see it in real time with as the 733 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 1: hunter comes in and most hunters um hunt fairly close 734 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,560 Speaker 1: to the roads. That's the other part of it is 735 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,759 Speaker 1: a is you get a chance to look at transmitter 736 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 1: activity of hunters. You realize that sometimes some of us 737 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 1: were that get back in are the anomaly. A lot 738 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:42,920 Speaker 1: of folks are within a couple hundred yards of a 739 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: roadway and they never get back in very far. And 740 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: those birds just moved back into more remote areas and 741 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 1: they dance as the hunter moves in the bird moves 742 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,239 Speaker 1: for their back in and as they come back out, 743 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:59,320 Speaker 1: it comes back out. Avoidance technique that is so person 744 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 1: knowing it's going. That's right. They might hear a bird 745 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,279 Speaker 1: and stuff, but they don't see a bird. Yeah, have 746 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 1: you identified any other tactics that they use, is like 747 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,880 Speaker 1: sort to avoid that you're you know, create that space 748 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,880 Speaker 1: other than just sort of being helped us kill them. Becky, 749 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,239 Speaker 1: I think we've all seen this. I mean, birds will 750 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,600 Speaker 1: go quiet if there's a lot of activity. I mean, 751 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 1: we've all been there in the towards the end of 752 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,319 Speaker 1: the season where birds um are getting pushed pretty hard 753 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:29,359 Speaker 1: in areas and um, they just aren't calling. They'll come in. 754 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,319 Speaker 1: You might get a gobble off the roost. You might 755 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 1: you know, if if a bird gets kicked up, you 756 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:39,200 Speaker 1: might have um, you know, a hand that pulls back in. Um. 757 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,279 Speaker 1: After they've nested, you'll hear some activity, but they'll go 758 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,839 Speaker 1: silent on you. And there are times when you wonder 759 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:47,759 Speaker 1: if they're really turkeys in the woods. And then the 760 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:49,719 Speaker 1: next thing you know, you you know, you kick up 761 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 1: a bird when you're walking back out to the vehicle 762 00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 1: and it's like, oh my god. You know, I sat 763 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,440 Speaker 1: there all morning and Um, I just wasn't able to 764 00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,239 Speaker 1: pull anything in. If they're moving around, I didn't see it. 765 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:04,560 Speaker 1: So there. I mean that they have incredible vision and 766 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,359 Speaker 1: they detect us and they know what's going on. They 767 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,840 Speaker 1: live in that territory and they know what's what's happening. 768 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:12,760 Speaker 1: I feel that people give them a lot of credit. 769 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 1: Uh kind of like too much credit. Not enough credit 770 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,480 Speaker 1: for just how paranoid they are, but too much credit 771 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,920 Speaker 1: for that. They sort of build up a database of 772 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: like experiences that they're drawing on. Oh, I think that's true. 773 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:31,799 Speaker 1: I think um birds have UM, well, their feathered reptiles, 774 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:36,360 Speaker 1: you know, they're they're not um highly advanced. UM So 775 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,759 Speaker 1: I agree with you. There's not the reasoning, but they 776 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,239 Speaker 1: have really strong instincts and you can see it in 777 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:45,799 Speaker 1: some of their behavior and um you know it's when 778 00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 1: they key on on a on a bird that's fanning. 779 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,239 Speaker 1: You know, when a male displaying and another male comes in, 780 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 1: it's an emotional response, UM that that bird is really 781 00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,000 Speaker 1: keyed in on, and even if there's danger in that area, 782 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,319 Speaker 1: they're going to key in on that. And the same 783 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,400 Speaker 1: is true of other instincts that they as animals have. 784 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,040 Speaker 1: Those birds have so I agree. It's not a reasoning process, 785 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:14,440 Speaker 1: it's it's instinctual. Yeah. And the ones that are uh, 786 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,800 Speaker 1: most wary are the ones that as they get older, 787 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,080 Speaker 1: there's like fewer and fewer, and you're dealing with You're 788 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,319 Speaker 1: like trying to call in the one is presumably like 789 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 1: the least gullible or the most wary, because the ones 790 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 1: that didn't have that, that that constant sense of you know, 791 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:37,600 Speaker 1: impending doom, they get killed off. That's true. You don't 792 00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,799 Speaker 1: agree with that, No, I agree, I agree, I think, 793 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,799 Speaker 1: And you'll see that both throughout the season. But you'll 794 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:47,280 Speaker 1: also see it in terms of populations, hounted populations versus 795 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:51,720 Speaker 1: non hunted populations, in terms of weariness. What what happens? 796 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:56,560 Speaker 1: Um like, like, how do you view view it? Sort 797 00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,280 Speaker 1: of culturally when you wind up with these like problem 798 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:03,960 Speaker 1: Turkey Pope relations in in in in suburban and urban areas, 799 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,680 Speaker 1: do you do do you guys look at that, Do 800 00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,600 Speaker 1: you guys look at that as being like something that 801 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,319 Speaker 1: you need to be involved in or does that wind 802 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:15,920 Speaker 1: up being just like a municipal issue, it usually belongs 803 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:19,799 Speaker 1: to the state and the municipality um to deal with. 804 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:24,480 Speaker 1: You wind up having um, Turkey Federation doesn't step in 805 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,040 Speaker 1: and try and help some of those problems situations. We 806 00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,600 Speaker 1: really do not have the authority to handle live birds 807 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,360 Speaker 1: that belongs to the state agency. So we'll we'll assist 808 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,319 Speaker 1: where we can. But when you get into nuisance situations, 809 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,160 Speaker 1: you usually have human behaviors going on there that are 810 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,600 Speaker 1: prompting it. One, you might have domestic birds that are 811 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,000 Speaker 1: out running around and people think they're wild birds and 812 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,279 Speaker 1: they're not. They're well, that happens, Oh, that happens. Yeah, 813 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,960 Speaker 1: you'll have that. Um. The other thing is you might 814 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 1: have birds that just get very hubituated. People wind up 815 00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,160 Speaker 1: having um, you know, food out at their bird feeders, 816 00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 1: and they wind up living in a subdivision feeding off 817 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,920 Speaker 1: that or even a more urban environment. They get territorial 818 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,080 Speaker 1: at certain times and cause problems with it. Um. They'll 819 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:13,040 Speaker 1: roost over people's vehicles. I mean there it's a situation 820 00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,120 Speaker 1: usually of over abundance of those problem birds and in 821 00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,120 Speaker 1: areas where they're not hunting, so you're not like you're 822 00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:24,120 Speaker 1: not actively out there trying to sort of um, sort 823 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,600 Speaker 1: of help smooth those relationships or kind of mitigate that. 824 00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:29,800 Speaker 1: It's not something that we typically do in the National 825 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,880 Speaker 1: Wild Turkey Federation. Now we it seems like you hear 826 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,279 Speaker 1: more and more stories about places like that. Yeah. Well, 827 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 1: I think with social media we see some of those 828 00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,759 Speaker 1: more frequently because they get picked up, they've been there. 829 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,320 Speaker 1: Um And whenever the public's attention is on wild turkeys, 830 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,000 Speaker 1: then you'll tend to hear more of those stories where 831 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:52,040 Speaker 1: there are problems with it. Also got fun example, my 832 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:57,120 Speaker 1: buddy Zack, another Michigander. UM, he's on the list for 833 00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:01,879 Speaker 1: depredation tags in Idaho and got a call just three 834 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:06,759 Speaker 1: weeks ago, Um, go up to Challis, Idaho, which that 835 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,200 Speaker 1: unit is actually a draw unit if you want to 836 00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:16,040 Speaker 1: hunt turkeys and uh for a turkey and the depredation 837 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:20,600 Speaker 1: turkey hun depredation turkey hunt and um, I can't remember 838 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,960 Speaker 1: who what the title of is of the person that 839 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,800 Speaker 1: called him. UM, but I want to be real clear 840 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,279 Speaker 1: with you. You're gonna show up to this lady's house 841 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,640 Speaker 1: and you're gonna be shooting a turkey underneath her swings. 842 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,240 Speaker 1: It was legit wild turkey though he's just like taking 843 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:42,719 Speaker 1: up like took up residents in her yard. Yes, is 844 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,040 Speaker 1: it a fall hunt there? I don't even know if 845 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,120 Speaker 1: Idaho has a fall Yes, Idaho does have fall hunts. 846 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:53,800 Speaker 1: This was a basically like a nuisance birth. Yeah, okay, 847 00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:59,000 Speaker 1: so yes, and every state treats it a little differently. UM. 848 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:00,799 Speaker 1: Up in you know, my home state, we had a 849 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,000 Speaker 1: fall hunt. In areas where we had some of those 850 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:07,560 Speaker 1: deprivation deprevation problems or over abundance issues, we would have 851 00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,600 Speaker 1: a fall hunt. You can take either sex UM. The 852 00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,400 Speaker 1: spring hunt was mail only and it was a limited 853 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:17,040 Speaker 1: entry system, so you can talk Can you talk about 854 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:21,400 Speaker 1: what is the UM because growing up in Montana you 855 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:26,600 Speaker 1: could you could kill hands in the fall with rifles. Yes, Now, 856 00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:32,040 Speaker 1: how does that affect your population? Well, usually it's done 857 00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,399 Speaker 1: to reduce the population. So your fall hunts are put 858 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,080 Speaker 1: in places they're usually just in areas where you want 859 00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,880 Speaker 1: to maintain a population level that you think is a 860 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,640 Speaker 1: growing population. You want to contain that population, so you 861 00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:48,440 Speaker 1: put in an either sex hunt and UM to do 862 00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,080 Speaker 1: just that. So it just usually falls in geographic areas 863 00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,560 Speaker 1: where you tend to have increasing populations, where you really 864 00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,040 Speaker 1: don't feel like you have any more room or social 865 00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:01,120 Speaker 1: tolerance to increase the population even higher. So that's a 866 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:05,759 Speaker 1: lowering device. Because spring hunts for males only probably doesn't 867 00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,000 Speaker 1: have any real I mean, you're kind of mechanically removing 868 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,240 Speaker 1: some birds, but it probably doesn't have a real sale impact. 869 00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,920 Speaker 1: That's why we could have hunting seasons, spring hunting seasons 870 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,040 Speaker 1: as we are trapping and moving birds and and growing 871 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,399 Speaker 1: that population, because all those females are still gonna live, 872 00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,759 Speaker 1: and they're still gonna get fertilized, and that's right, they're 873 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:29,480 Speaker 1: gonna get bread. And that's usually not the limitation. I'd 874 00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:35,960 Speaker 1: like to talk about the the big six habitats. So 875 00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:41,040 Speaker 1: this is something that yeah, you do a better job explained, 876 00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,480 Speaker 1: You do a better job explained. But this is a creation. 877 00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,880 Speaker 1: This is the n w t F notion right, and 878 00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,040 Speaker 1: it is it is. Although it was done in concert 879 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,879 Speaker 1: with our partners and state and federal agency partners UM. 880 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,400 Speaker 1: We we realized we really in order to be effective 881 00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,680 Speaker 1: on the landscape, we needed to really focus are our 882 00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:05,040 Speaker 1: habitat work and our conservation work on those habitats that 883 00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,240 Speaker 1: were going to make the biggest difference to the wild 884 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:11,279 Speaker 1: turkey across the country. So we sat down with our 885 00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,640 Speaker 1: state and federal agency partners and we mapped out where 886 00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,440 Speaker 1: we thought those most important habitats were in each of 887 00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:22,720 Speaker 1: the states, and then we we built those into focal 888 00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:27,359 Speaker 1: landscapes and we combined them under America's Big Six. And 889 00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,839 Speaker 1: America's Big Six is really just a combination of those 890 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:35,359 Speaker 1: focal landscapes over six broad areas of the country where 891 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,480 Speaker 1: we thought they had commonality, commonality and and some of 892 00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:43,080 Speaker 1: the issues that we're facing those landscapes. Um it might 893 00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,799 Speaker 1: be it might be a lack of forest management. It 894 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:49,480 Speaker 1: might be riperian zones where you have invasive species salt 895 00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,320 Speaker 1: seat there they're moving in in the southwestern United States. 896 00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,640 Speaker 1: It might be a lack of early successional habitat up 897 00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,880 Speaker 1: in the northeastern part of the country. But we grouped 898 00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,719 Speaker 1: those as America's Big Six, which I feel like it's 899 00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:07,040 Speaker 1: confusing because people know the African Big Five. That's true, 900 00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,080 Speaker 1: that's true, although quite off we're not dealing with the 901 00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,279 Speaker 1: same hunter out there. But we did name it America's 902 00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:15,799 Speaker 1: Big Six. But because we really wanted to try and 903 00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,360 Speaker 1: tie people to that landscape and some of the issues 904 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,439 Speaker 1: that we were seeing on that landscape, so that as 905 00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,440 Speaker 1: we bring in our donors and our members to raise 906 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:30,640 Speaker 1: money around helping us fond really good restoration and active 907 00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,880 Speaker 1: management landscape. They would know why we were doing it. 908 00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,560 Speaker 1: So for instance, UM, can you walk us through the 909 00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:42,240 Speaker 1: six I can we have? We have America's Colonial Forest 910 00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:46,000 Speaker 1: that is up in the northeastern United States, UM in 911 00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:50,160 Speaker 1: the Great Lakes region and upper Midwest. We have UM 912 00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:55,920 Speaker 1: America's Crossroads. We have America's Mid South Rebirth, which are 913 00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,720 Speaker 1: really down in Appalachia and kind of the that oak 914 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:04,120 Speaker 1: that Southern Appalachian oak habitat that gets into it. We 915 00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:09,120 Speaker 1: have UM Americans piney Woods, Southern piney Woods, which really 916 00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,440 Speaker 1: goes on the historic long leaf that went along the 917 00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:14,640 Speaker 1: coastal zones and all the rest of it. UM how 918 00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:21,879 Speaker 1: many is that? For? UM? We have America's Bigger Great 919 00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:24,480 Speaker 1: Open Spaces. We played with these names so much for 920 00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,040 Speaker 1: great open Spaces that goes to the big the bread 921 00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:33,640 Speaker 1: basket the United States. And then America's Western frontier, so 922 00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:36,680 Speaker 1: we that really is a large one that will probably 923 00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:39,200 Speaker 1: break down. It's over much of the western United States. 924 00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:43,440 Speaker 1: But UM, so those were the focal landscapes, and we 925 00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:48,480 Speaker 1: try to tie in some of the UM cultural parts 926 00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,000 Speaker 1: of those parts of the country also into the name, 927 00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,000 Speaker 1: so that that people really resonated so when you talk 928 00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:58,080 Speaker 1: about America's colonial forests, they really think about that forest 929 00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:01,320 Speaker 1: land that was found up in the upper New England States. 930 00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,719 Speaker 1: It was there during colonial times. You know, we have 931 00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:09,200 Speaker 1: at one time we support a huge um lumber era 932 00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,760 Speaker 1: up in the in that area, and we went through 933 00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,680 Speaker 1: having tremendous pulp mills and lumbering that took place in 934 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,040 Speaker 1: real active forest management. We've lost a lot of that 935 00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:21,720 Speaker 1: in that part of the country these days, so lost 936 00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,520 Speaker 1: to what um it's well, we've lost it in the 937 00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,480 Speaker 1: fact that we don't have the mills up there to 938 00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:28,879 Speaker 1: cut the timber anymore. So we don't have as much 939 00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:33,279 Speaker 1: open management UM or an active management and really are 940 00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,840 Speaker 1: our real critical feature young forest. A lot of that 941 00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:40,080 Speaker 1: area were used to have tremendous gross and woodcock populations 942 00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,840 Speaker 1: has really declined and it and it hurts areas where 943 00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,880 Speaker 1: turkeys would go into those early successional areas. You know, 944 00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,680 Speaker 1: those are great areas for broodcover to go in and 945 00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:53,680 Speaker 1: feed and we just don't have much of that right now. 946 00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:55,759 Speaker 1: So in a case like that, I think that's hard 947 00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:59,080 Speaker 1: for people to to understand. People who look at this 948 00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:02,960 Speaker 1: whole thing from the outside would be the idea that 949 00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:07,680 Speaker 1: that forest management or you know which and sometimes serves 950 00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:11,319 Speaker 1: as a euphemism for logging. The logging was in those 951 00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,360 Speaker 1: areas beneficial to wildlife. It was, I mean, it created 952 00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:18,280 Speaker 1: tremendous early successional habitat across a lot of that area, 953 00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:20,880 Speaker 1: and a lot of the species that we like to 954 00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:24,800 Speaker 1: hunt live in those earliest successional forests, those young forest 955 00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:29,520 Speaker 1: um and we're just really create recreating through logging what 956 00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,920 Speaker 1: had occurred through natural You know, you had wind throw 957 00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,560 Speaker 1: in the Great Lakes. We have wind shear and wind 958 00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,200 Speaker 1: throw that comes in and where the wind races across 959 00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:40,840 Speaker 1: the Great Lakes, and you can actually see it on 960 00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:44,799 Speaker 1: satellite imagery where it will blow down big swaths of 961 00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,279 Speaker 1: timber up in the Upper Peninsula, in the northern part 962 00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:51,080 Speaker 1: of Lower Peninsula along the shoreline. Well, that wind throw, 963 00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:54,120 Speaker 1: you know, exposes root mass and all the rest of it. 964 00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,040 Speaker 1: And you have and where you have aspen or other species, 965 00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:59,680 Speaker 1: that's where you'll get sunlight coming into the forest floor, 966 00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:02,799 Speaker 1: you'll disruption of that soil type and that will create 967 00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,440 Speaker 1: that young forest coming back in. And then you also 968 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,920 Speaker 1: had the issue that we've largely kind of gotten rid 969 00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:10,279 Speaker 1: of in a lot of parts of the countries. You 970 00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:13,680 Speaker 1: had wildfire. That's right, you had wildfire that moved in 971 00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:17,280 Speaker 1: and and would um, you know, it would it would 972 00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:21,200 Speaker 1: kill off trees. It wasn't they weren't cool um fires 973 00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:23,920 Speaker 1: that ran to just a forest floor. They would actually 974 00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:27,720 Speaker 1: top out, crown out, and those fires would race across 975 00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:32,120 Speaker 1: parts of the state. Um. And so with that you 976 00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:35,239 Speaker 1: wind up having that forest set back and start as 977 00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:38,680 Speaker 1: a young forest again and grow up older and older 978 00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,279 Speaker 1: and older until you had another disturbance in place. So 979 00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,880 Speaker 1: to give you a mixed habitat. Yeah, and you'd find that, 980 00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,680 Speaker 1: I mean, we'd also see it with beaver ponds along 981 00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:50,279 Speaker 1: river systems where they would you know, they'll go in 982 00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:55,319 Speaker 1: and and cut down aspen um damn the stream kill 983 00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,240 Speaker 1: off that timber maybe back through an upper valley area 984 00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:01,640 Speaker 1: from that damned water, and then is that damn winds 985 00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:03,880 Speaker 1: up blowing out. You know, then you're going to have 986 00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,120 Speaker 1: that dead timber that has a lot of forests a 987 00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,839 Speaker 1: lot of light down to what becomes the forest floor. Again, 988 00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:13,680 Speaker 1: it'll create a new young forest there. So let's say 989 00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:16,839 Speaker 1: you take the colonial forests there and you look at 990 00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:21,280 Speaker 1: a system that that that once existed of yet presuming 991 00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,479 Speaker 1: like a wildfire system and other things that would allow 992 00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:27,840 Speaker 1: you to have like a mixed habitat. And then logging. Um, 993 00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:30,359 Speaker 1: you know we we we began like fire suppression for 994 00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:34,160 Speaker 1: human safety reasons or whatever, but logging still drove that. 995 00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:38,120 Speaker 1: Now you can't be proposing like I don't imagine the 996 00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,200 Speaker 1: solution is that we would somehow get the logging industry 997 00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:43,839 Speaker 1: back up and running like like how like what would 998 00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,839 Speaker 1: be a plausible solution. Well, in some of those areas, um, 999 00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:51,800 Speaker 1: we still do have remnant populations of of a logging 1000 00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:55,279 Speaker 1: industry in those areas, um, but they're not as it's 1001 00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:57,120 Speaker 1: not as easy to get the timber cut as it 1002 00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:01,520 Speaker 1: once was. We are actually the Turkey Federation is actually 1003 00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:03,799 Speaker 1: the largest partner of the U. S. Forest Service to 1004 00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:07,320 Speaker 1: come in and do stewardship contracting, which is a tool 1005 00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:11,160 Speaker 1: where we can come in. We can actually buy out 1006 00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:14,000 Speaker 1: a timber sale that they can't seem to market or 1007 00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:17,120 Speaker 1: sell otherwise, use the proceeds of that sale then to 1008 00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:19,760 Speaker 1: resolve whatever issue needs to be done on the land 1009 00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,400 Speaker 1: for the Forest Service. So for instance, maybe there's an 1010 00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,960 Speaker 1: invasive species there, We'll cut the timber that needs to 1011 00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:29,400 Speaker 1: be cut as far as the forest management plan, and 1012 00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,160 Speaker 1: the Forest Service still does all the forest planning, all 1013 00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:37,400 Speaker 1: the NIPA, the environmental compliance review. Then we'll come in 1014 00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:39,680 Speaker 1: and we'll cut that, do that forest treatment as far 1015 00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:42,960 Speaker 1: as the cutting, will apply the proceeds to remove the 1016 00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:46,960 Speaker 1: invasive species, um close off the road, see them down, 1017 00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,920 Speaker 1: make them walking trails so that people can access it, 1018 00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:52,240 Speaker 1: but not have it be all torn up that causes 1019 00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:57,759 Speaker 1: soil erosion, and then move into another forest stewardship contractual arrangement. 1020 00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:01,160 Speaker 1: And because of that, I mean, Turkey Federation is a 1021 00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:03,960 Speaker 1: pretty big nonprofit. But to give you an idea, we 1022 00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:06,279 Speaker 1: do so much work. We're usually when the top ten 1023 00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:09,400 Speaker 1: timber buyers in the country for the US force there. Yeah, 1024 00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:11,920 Speaker 1: so I'll tell you how much we really do across 1025 00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:14,560 Speaker 1: the landscape with that, and then we partner with a 1026 00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:17,000 Speaker 1: lot of state agencies also to make sure that we 1027 00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:21,400 Speaker 1: have help them get really good active forest management as 1028 00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,280 Speaker 1: well as other habitat management on the landscape that they 1029 00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:28,480 Speaker 1: need to get done. So over years, the model of 1030 00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:32,600 Speaker 1: conservation work being done strictly by agencies has broadened out, 1031 00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:35,440 Speaker 1: and we've been able to bring in hunters and through 1032 00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:39,240 Speaker 1: their membership dollars and their fundraising efforts and donor dollars. 1033 00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:43,240 Speaker 1: We can use that money and make agency money go 1034 00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:45,680 Speaker 1: much further in order to get some of that habitat 1035 00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:49,480 Speaker 1: management on the ground. Walk us through another one of 1036 00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:52,720 Speaker 1: the six habitat types. So like like a challenge and 1037 00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:56,640 Speaker 1: solution situation another one. Well, I'll do to um. You 1038 00:57:56,680 --> 00:58:02,680 Speaker 1: know I talked about UM the Midwest. We're seeing tremendous 1039 00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:05,640 Speaker 1: um stress on oak. I mean we've we've had a 1040 00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:08,560 Speaker 1: lot of mass producing trees, and we know, mass producing 1041 00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:13,320 Speaker 1: trees our prime wildlife food. I mean eggcorns or hickory 1042 00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:16,760 Speaker 1: nuts or chestnuts. When we had those, you know, they 1043 00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:19,360 Speaker 1: provide a lot of food energy to a wealth of 1044 00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:24,520 Speaker 1: wildlife species out there. And we lost our chestnuts UM, 1045 00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:29,120 Speaker 1: and we have lost to disease. And now we're seeing 1046 00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:32,600 Speaker 1: some real problems with oak UM with oak wilt disease 1047 00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:35,479 Speaker 1: and a number of other diseases, and also our oak 1048 00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:39,240 Speaker 1: populations UM. Because of the way we cleared our forest 1049 00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:42,640 Speaker 1: during the logging era and then the the hardwood regeneration 1050 00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,600 Speaker 1: came up, we are not seeing the kind of oak 1051 00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:50,040 Speaker 1: regeneration that we had seen fifty years ago. So our 1052 00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:54,600 Speaker 1: our forests are converting over to you know, um more beech, 1053 00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:58,520 Speaker 1: maple and some other forest types that are more mature, 1054 00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,400 Speaker 1: but not as a and as far as mass crop. 1055 00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,680 Speaker 1: So in those areas we are going in and working 1056 00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:07,520 Speaker 1: with um land managers to make sure that we have 1057 00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:10,760 Speaker 1: really good regeneration of some of those mass crop species 1058 00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:14,280 Speaker 1: that are so important to the midwestern part of the country. 1059 00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:17,760 Speaker 1: Another area would be down in Oklahoma and parts of 1060 00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:21,760 Speaker 1: Texas where we have river systems, riverine systems where salt 1061 00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:27,040 Speaker 1: cedar has moved in and grown up along those river corridors. 1062 00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:30,200 Speaker 1: It sucks up the moisture, it draws down the water table, 1063 00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:33,840 Speaker 1: but it you know, it's really really thick, it's not 1064 00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:36,479 Speaker 1: used by a lot of native wildlife, and it really 1065 00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:40,280 Speaker 1: changes the hydrology of that system. So in those situations, 1066 00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:44,280 Speaker 1: we're going in and manually and and using mechanical equipment 1067 00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:47,439 Speaker 1: removing that salt cedar, getting it cleared out of there 1068 00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:49,400 Speaker 1: so that we can get cotton woods and some of 1069 00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:52,400 Speaker 1: the trees that are much more well, they're native to 1070 00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:56,080 Speaker 1: that area, but they don't have the negative impacts on hydrology, 1071 00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:59,440 Speaker 1: and they're really also important for roost trees for wild turkeys, 1072 00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,080 Speaker 1: and those have a tat types. But I'm sure you 1073 01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:04,160 Speaker 1: can always go and tie all those turkeys, but it 1074 01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:07,560 Speaker 1: winds up going way beyond turkeys, way beyond, way beyond. 1075 01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:11,760 Speaker 1: It's a whole system out there, and and we we 1076 01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:14,160 Speaker 1: try and focus on the habitats that we think are 1077 01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:17,200 Speaker 1: the most important for turkeys. But it has huge benefits 1078 01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:19,200 Speaker 1: when you look at some of the other species. So 1079 01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:22,400 Speaker 1: in the East United States, the golden wing warbler as 1080 01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:26,120 Speaker 1: a species that is uses those young forests. As we 1081 01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:28,880 Speaker 1: do a lot of work on young forests to benefit turkeys, 1082 01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:31,400 Speaker 1: the golden wing warbler has been the real recipient of 1083 01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:35,240 Speaker 1: a lot of that benefit. Um in the southern piney woods, 1084 01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:39,080 Speaker 1: you know, the gopher, tortoise and indigo snakes and and 1085 01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,440 Speaker 1: you know the woodpeckers that thrive in those environments are 1086 01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:46,320 Speaker 1: other beneficiaries that might be there. In the Midwest, you 1087 01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:49,600 Speaker 1: might have deer populations that are really beneficial and bear 1088 01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:53,200 Speaker 1: populations on those masterrees where they use it as a 1089 01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:57,560 Speaker 1: tremendous food source and really thrive in those types of environments. 1090 01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:00,920 Speaker 1: So you know it does it benefits a lot more 1091 01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:02,760 Speaker 1: in the wild turkey. So how do you how do 1092 01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:06,080 Speaker 1: you want of explaining that to people, because I think 1093 01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:08,200 Speaker 1: they look at the name of the organization, they look 1094 01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:10,400 Speaker 1: at the work, right, and I think they probably not 1095 01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:14,000 Speaker 1: really understand sort of the broader magnitude of the kind 1096 01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:16,480 Speaker 1: of habitat work you're engaged in. Well. I think it's 1097 01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,760 Speaker 1: a constant um challenge for us to make sure people 1098 01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:23,320 Speaker 1: realize how much great work we really do and all 1099 01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:26,160 Speaker 1: the benefits of it. We came together and formed over 1100 01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:29,600 Speaker 1: the restoration of the wild turkey, but today it's about 1101 01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:33,080 Speaker 1: save the habitat, save the hunt, and it's about making 1102 01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:35,600 Speaker 1: sure that we're not only conserving the wild turkey and 1103 01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:38,560 Speaker 1: the host of other species that live in those those 1104 01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:43,000 Speaker 1: habitat types, but also that we're passing on the hunting 1105 01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:45,920 Speaker 1: heritage to the next generation so that we have folks 1106 01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:48,880 Speaker 1: that go out and use and recreate and enjoy, but 1107 01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:52,160 Speaker 1: also value that resource and really know it and understand 1108 01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:55,520 Speaker 1: it takes change in these habitat systems. You can't let 1109 01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:59,640 Speaker 1: them just grow up continuously and get overaged. That that 1110 01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:03,200 Speaker 1: change is good and that we need to actively manage 1111 01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:06,000 Speaker 1: those to have a good habitat for people and good 1112 01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:10,200 Speaker 1: habitat for wildlife. When we were emailed with some of 1113 01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:15,440 Speaker 1: your team. A figure that came o way was that 1114 01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:20,960 Speaker 1: that in this country, we're losing about six thousand acres 1115 01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:25,920 Speaker 1: of habitat a day to what to any number of things. 1116 01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:28,760 Speaker 1: It can be. Um, it can be to urban sprawl 1117 01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,720 Speaker 1: and suburban sprawl. It could be to golf courses. UM. 1118 01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:35,200 Speaker 1: In some cases, it can be to to industrialized farming, 1119 01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:37,880 Speaker 1: you know where we're clearing out farm fence rows. The 1120 01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:41,600 Speaker 1: agricultural community is usually a great partner with us, but 1121 01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:46,360 Speaker 1: agriculture today is far more intensive, um and extensive in 1122 01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:49,560 Speaker 1: some parts of the country than it once was. UM. 1123 01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:51,920 Speaker 1: So it's a whole range of things we and all 1124 01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:54,280 Speaker 1: I gotta do is go to space and look at 1125 01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:56,960 Speaker 1: pictures at night time to see how it has changed 1126 01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,800 Speaker 1: across this country. And I think that probably is is 1127 01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:02,760 Speaker 1: one of the most visual ways to really think about 1128 01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:06,120 Speaker 1: how much more landscape that we as people are tying up, 1129 01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:09,840 Speaker 1: you know in in um parking lots and strip malls 1130 01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:13,840 Speaker 1: and um, the things that we use every day. Yeah, 1131 01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:17,240 Speaker 1: I understand, like economic growth, and I understand all that. 1132 01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:19,120 Speaker 1: I thought when I do when I see someone making 1133 01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:22,920 Speaker 1: a parking lot, I offered to think like that'll that 1134 01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:26,479 Speaker 1: will never again be habitat. That's tough. It really is tough. 1135 01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:28,840 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a painful world to live in. Well 1136 01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:31,560 Speaker 1: it is. I mean, I'm Michigan. I've had that house 1137 01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:35,880 Speaker 1: now for twenty five years. And you you'll drive by someplace. 1138 01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:37,720 Speaker 1: I'll hear my daughter say, that's where I shot my 1139 01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:40,600 Speaker 1: first pheasant. And you know, it was heartbreaking to her 1140 01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,080 Speaker 1: when she saw the house that was built there. Now 1141 01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:46,440 Speaker 1: there's a subdivision there, and it's like, oh my goodness, 1142 01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:49,880 Speaker 1: you know, and and um, she's in her mid twenties now, 1143 01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:55,080 Speaker 1: but it's pretty quickly that it's happening. It's just tremendous 1144 01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:58,360 Speaker 1: growth that we're gobbling up landscape. And I think that's 1145 01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:01,320 Speaker 1: why we need to get people to recognize that we 1146 01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:05,480 Speaker 1: can still have really good habitat and good wildlife populations 1147 01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:09,320 Speaker 1: for a lot of species in those those suburban environments. 1148 01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:12,400 Speaker 1: It's about recognizing that we have to have working landscapes. 1149 01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:18,800 Speaker 1: Though define that I've for me personally, I view it 1150 01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:22,040 Speaker 1: as a working landscape is one where we we make 1151 01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:25,440 Speaker 1: room for wildlife within the area that's there. So in 1152 01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:28,600 Speaker 1: other words, we think about ways that we treat our 1153 01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:32,160 Speaker 1: watersheds and a lot of our urban environments we've put 1154 01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:36,200 Speaker 1: hardscaping in along riversides, you know, where we have retained cement, 1155 01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:40,880 Speaker 1: retaining walls. We don't have the saut shorelines where we um. 1156 01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:43,680 Speaker 1: A lot of our sewer systems in Michigan are underground 1157 01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:46,560 Speaker 1: pipe and drain system systems as opposed to putting it 1158 01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:49,600 Speaker 1: up on the surface and and having it filtrated through 1159 01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:53,240 Speaker 1: and using it as an actual wetland with um surrounding 1160 01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:57,360 Speaker 1: areas for grassy cover and trees. And so it's about 1161 01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:02,160 Speaker 1: thinking about ways that we that we can incorporate natural 1162 01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:06,120 Speaker 1: features into our landscape to still clean our waste water, 1163 01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,480 Speaker 1: to filtrate that water, to handle our waste, and to 1164 01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:13,680 Speaker 1: make sure that as we put in parking lots and 1165 01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:19,919 Speaker 1: facilities that were not unnecessarily um limiting all the cover 1166 01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:23,240 Speaker 1: around it. The turkey wise up being a good emblem 1167 01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:26,640 Speaker 1: for that. I feel like because the birds do so 1168 01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:30,760 Speaker 1: well along sort of the human wild interface. They do 1169 01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:33,760 Speaker 1: I mean in some areas they really do really well. 1170 01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:35,480 Speaker 1: And the other part of it is it is a 1171 01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:38,080 Speaker 1: it's a bird that people can get out and hunt 1172 01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:43,080 Speaker 1: in some of those suburban urban um wild interfaces UM 1173 01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:46,000 Speaker 1: and and that is remarkable that you can go out 1174 01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:49,280 Speaker 1: there and have a tremendous hunt, you know, right with 1175 01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:52,320 Speaker 1: people's homes that very far away. If we haven't I 1176 01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:55,760 Speaker 1: know how to put it figure to it. But when 1177 01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:00,400 Speaker 1: the National Wallle Turkey Federation was founded, is maybe a 1178 01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:04,040 Speaker 1: million and a half turkeys? Yeah, what we're early figures 1179 01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:09,200 Speaker 1: one million, one three millions, somewhere around seven million. Now, yeah, 1180 01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:13,920 Speaker 1: do you feel that we're like, do you feel that 1181 01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:17,600 Speaker 1: we could have a false sense of security about the 1182 01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:19,880 Speaker 1: well being of the bird right now? Oh? I think so. 1183 01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:21,960 Speaker 1: You know, we've had a lot of talks about that 1184 01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:26,560 Speaker 1: within the National Wild Turkey Federation. In fact, the organization 1185 01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:29,919 Speaker 1: went through some periods where when we fulfilled our last 1186 01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:32,920 Speaker 1: trap in transfer. I mean, we still do some work 1187 01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:35,800 Speaker 1: with some states in terms of restoring populations and do 1188 01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:40,360 Speaker 1: some trapping, but the question was what comes next? And 1189 01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:43,160 Speaker 1: um then we started to see some decline in bird 1190 01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:46,400 Speaker 1: numbers and some parts of the country, and we we 1191 01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:49,360 Speaker 1: invested in research to better understand that, and then we 1192 01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:51,880 Speaker 1: started looking at some of the habitat changes that were 1193 01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:56,160 Speaker 1: going on and recognized now, because we restored the birds, 1194 01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:58,840 Speaker 1: we can't just rest on our laurels. We need to 1195 01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:02,160 Speaker 1: make sure that we maintain in those really good habitats 1196 01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:04,760 Speaker 1: that we can out on the landscape and make sure 1197 01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:08,520 Speaker 1: it's there so that we have birds known in the future. Yeah, 1198 01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:11,480 Speaker 1: So you don't let taking for grantedy, that's right, we can't. 1199 01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:14,280 Speaker 1: We absolutely have to make sure that we have great 1200 01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:18,480 Speaker 1: habitat when you uh, you do work a lot of 1201 01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:23,080 Speaker 1: work with government now, like like with government agencies, trying 1202 01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:29,640 Speaker 1: to move legislation, influence legislation in a way to be 1203 01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:34,360 Speaker 1: beneficial the habitat. That's right. Um, give me an example, right, well, Um, 1204 01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:38,680 Speaker 1: the Resilient Forest Act that's been trying to move through Congress. Now, Um, 1205 01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:41,640 Speaker 1: that's one that really is trying to tackle how we 1206 01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:45,320 Speaker 1: do active forest management in our national forest lands, so 1207 01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:49,440 Speaker 1: national forest lands across the country. We have gotten to 1208 01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:53,920 Speaker 1: the point where with with the regulation the processes in place, 1209 01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:55,840 Speaker 1: that we were spending the majority of our time and 1210 01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:59,320 Speaker 1: effort doing the planning process. But then we'd have these 1211 01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:01,720 Speaker 1: big forest fires and we'd borrow all the money from 1212 01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:05,240 Speaker 1: management in order to fight the fires. You'd never get 1213 01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:08,880 Speaker 1: the active management and as a result, then we're cutting less, 1214 01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:11,919 Speaker 1: we're having fuel loads build up and then we're having 1215 01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:15,280 Speaker 1: even more massive fires. So we've been working real hard 1216 01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:19,519 Speaker 1: with Congress to try and do some forest reform so 1217 01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:22,800 Speaker 1: that we can do more active management and use that 1218 01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:27,479 Speaker 1: product that fibers supply off the forest and UM and 1219 01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:31,080 Speaker 1: then also UM address the forest fire funding issue, because 1220 01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:33,680 Speaker 1: right now the Forest Service gets past a budget and 1221 01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:36,439 Speaker 1: they have to do both components of it, and they've 1222 01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:40,400 Speaker 1: had because of the increasing fires, they are staffing up, 1223 01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:44,120 Speaker 1: having to staff up and fire suppression staff and reduce 1224 01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:47,559 Speaker 1: their staff for foresters. They're doing active management on the ground, 1225 01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:51,240 Speaker 1: which is compounding the problem. So it's it's a really 1226 01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:54,880 Speaker 1: complex problem. And UM and with it, there have been 1227 01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:57,920 Speaker 1: some other components of it, putting in some pilot projects 1228 01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:01,160 Speaker 1: so that we look at UM ways to do arbitration 1229 01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:05,479 Speaker 1: and partnerships rather than gaining the legal battles for you know, 1230 01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:08,320 Speaker 1: their individuals and groups out there who really don't like 1231 01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:12,080 Speaker 1: timber cutting and they think it's ruining the forest, and 1232 01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:15,240 Speaker 1: and every citizen this country has the right to challenge 1233 01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:18,240 Speaker 1: some of those decisions and then actually challenge it in 1234 01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:21,800 Speaker 1: through the court system, and and we through the Equal 1235 01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:25,000 Speaker 1: Opportunity Justice to act, then wind up paying through government 1236 01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:29,639 Speaker 1: funds if they're successful in some of their their court challenges. Well, 1237 01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:33,639 Speaker 1: when you do that, sometimes we are we're spending more 1238 01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:36,320 Speaker 1: money net than it was really necessary to get good 1239 01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:38,920 Speaker 1: decision making on what we want on the ground. We 1240 01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:45,040 Speaker 1: strongly support really good comprehensive planning and developing good environmental 1241 01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:48,360 Speaker 1: assessments of those plans. But once the decision is made 1242 01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:50,840 Speaker 1: to cut, then let's go in and cut and get 1243 01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:53,360 Speaker 1: the treatment done. Let's not spend all of our money 1244 01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:56,479 Speaker 1: bickering about it in court. Let's let's make sure that 1245 01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:59,600 Speaker 1: we're using the funding that's intended to have to have 1246 01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:03,920 Speaker 1: health the forest. Do you find yourself making painful compromises 1247 01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:06,080 Speaker 1: down then where you just you realize you pushed something 1248 01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:08,560 Speaker 1: as far as you can get it, and uh, and 1249 01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:10,880 Speaker 1: you just gotta move on. Yeah, I mean that's part 1250 01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:13,439 Speaker 1: of the game with any sort of policy work. Public 1251 01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:16,800 Speaker 1: policy work is, Um, we live in a democracy, and 1252 01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:20,120 Speaker 1: there are people with different views and and members of 1253 01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:24,120 Speaker 1: Congress have to represent their constituents and have their respective 1254 01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:27,400 Speaker 1: opinions on it. So while we might want to see something, 1255 01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:30,160 Speaker 1: maybe we can only get a baby step to get there. 1256 01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:34,400 Speaker 1: This year, you take the baby step, you participate in 1257 01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:36,559 Speaker 1: the pilot projects that are out there, you'd be the 1258 01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:39,679 Speaker 1: good partner to the agencies, and then you come back 1259 01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:41,839 Speaker 1: down the road and try and make the additional changes 1260 01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:44,360 Speaker 1: that you need to get done in the future. So 1261 01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:46,800 Speaker 1: I imagine you probably found a way because you spent 1262 01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:50,160 Speaker 1: like coming up, you spent so much time in state 1263 01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:52,479 Speaker 1: government and probably dealt with federal government long time. You 1264 01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:57,680 Speaker 1: probably you must develop sort of way to not sabotage relationships. 1265 01:10:58,080 --> 01:10:59,680 Speaker 1: We'll still try to get a little bit of what 1266 01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:03,040 Speaker 1: you want out of the well. Yeah, I think it's um. 1267 01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:06,320 Speaker 1: I think first of all, it's a philosophy coming into it. 1268 01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:09,800 Speaker 1: I think most of our and if not all, our 1269 01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:12,640 Speaker 1: lawmakers run for office because they really want to make 1270 01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:15,880 Speaker 1: a difference in this country. And so it's about sharing 1271 01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:18,800 Speaker 1: your experience and your your insights on what can be 1272 01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:21,479 Speaker 1: done to make that difference out there and why we 1273 01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:23,920 Speaker 1: think there are changes that need to be done, And 1274 01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:26,479 Speaker 1: it's about showing them. You know. Sometimes I found that 1275 01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:29,759 Speaker 1: you can sit in someone's office and try and explain 1276 01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:31,559 Speaker 1: something they don't get it. But if you go out 1277 01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:33,240 Speaker 1: on the ground and you point to it and you 1278 01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:36,799 Speaker 1: kick the dirt, and then they can see what's really happening. 1279 01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:39,719 Speaker 1: It's about getting out on the ground sometimes and showing 1280 01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:42,200 Speaker 1: them what we're seeing as we go out and do 1281 01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:45,080 Speaker 1: our work, and that the light bulb goes on and 1282 01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:48,920 Speaker 1: the how moment occurs and they go, Okay, I don't 1283 01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:50,920 Speaker 1: agree with the solution, but I think we can come 1284 01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:53,760 Speaker 1: up with another solution that will still achieve this. And 1285 01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:56,160 Speaker 1: then that's where you get compromised and you get the 1286 01:11:56,200 --> 01:11:59,000 Speaker 1: ability to talk through what are ways that we can 1287 01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:02,320 Speaker 1: make policy change just will be effective in this country? 1288 01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:09,200 Speaker 1: What are what has been the impact of hunters and 1289 01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:16,840 Speaker 1: hunter dollars on all the habitat work that has gone on, 1290 01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:20,120 Speaker 1: and that that that your organization is involved in others 1291 01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:23,120 Speaker 1: like like how how impactful has that been compared to 1292 01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:26,960 Speaker 1: other sources of revenue that would be allocated state and 1293 01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:29,839 Speaker 1: federal level to do in similar habitat work. Well, I'd 1294 01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:32,959 Speaker 1: have to say that um hunters dollars and the excise 1295 01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:35,960 Speaker 1: tax that it matches is really the lions share of 1296 01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:39,600 Speaker 1: the money for all the state agencies. And you know 1297 01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:42,880 Speaker 1: there there are federal agencies to do fine habitat work 1298 01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:46,360 Speaker 1: on our national forests and our wildlife refuges and and 1299 01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:48,719 Speaker 1: BLM lands and the rest of it. But the lions 1300 01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:52,920 Speaker 1: share of the state efforts and they are the agency 1301 01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:56,040 Speaker 1: that's responsible for all the native wildlife in their state, 1302 01:12:56,800 --> 01:13:00,439 Speaker 1: UM except for those at full under Migratory Bird Redact 1303 01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:04,799 Speaker 1: and Threatened and Endangered Species Act those UM those efforts 1304 01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:08,360 Speaker 1: are all funded through hunter dollars and through licensed money 1305 01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:11,400 Speaker 1: and the matching excise tax. Can you um when you 1306 01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:16,280 Speaker 1: say excise to actually talking like LWCF or Pittman Robertson, 1307 01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:19,799 Speaker 1: Dingle Johns, I'm talking about Pittman Robertson, Dingle Johnson wallet 1308 01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:25,080 Speaker 1: row dollars primarily. Now there there are there's some other 1309 01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:27,880 Speaker 1: funding sources out there also, but the majority of that 1310 01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:30,880 Speaker 1: comes back to the states in a formula that's based 1311 01:13:30,920 --> 01:13:33,400 Speaker 1: on the land base of that state and the number 1312 01:13:33,439 --> 01:13:37,719 Speaker 1: of licensed hunters individual hunters in that state. So, for instance, 1313 01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:42,000 Speaker 1: in Michigan, we wound up taking federal Pittman Robertson dollars 1314 01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:45,680 Speaker 1: and Dingle Johnson from fishing UM. Pittman Robertson is a 1315 01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:49,280 Speaker 1: wildlife restoration component of it. So that's for wildlife and 1316 01:13:49,360 --> 01:13:53,080 Speaker 1: the and the fishy. We've explained the listeners of handful 1317 01:13:53,120 --> 01:13:54,960 Speaker 1: times just in case one hasn't caught. What we're talking 1318 01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:58,519 Speaker 1: about is that like Pittman Robertson money. When people talk 1319 01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:01,040 Speaker 1: about Pittman Robertson funds, there's an excise tax on guns 1320 01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:04,640 Speaker 1: and ammunition. So when you go down to buy a firearm, 1321 01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:08,759 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if if it's someone buying a handgun 1322 01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:10,880 Speaker 1: to carry around in their purse for self defense, like 1323 01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:15,400 Speaker 1: anything like that winds up being rolled into Pittman Robertson fund. 1324 01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:19,160 Speaker 1: There's a thirteen or fourteen exercise tax on that item. 1325 01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:23,559 Speaker 1: So that's what funds the the Pittman Robertson Fund, which 1326 01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:27,400 Speaker 1: is established the Wildlife Restoration Act back in the thirties, 1327 01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:30,800 Speaker 1: and then Dingle Johnson came afterwards, and it's a little 1328 01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:34,000 Speaker 1: bit more far reaching in the in the items that includes, 1329 01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:42,040 Speaker 1: because Pitto Robertson is very specific to archery, to like bows, guns, ammunition, guns, ammunition, unfishing, 1330 01:14:42,120 --> 01:14:46,000 Speaker 1: Dingle Johnson even like like boat gas, so like fuel 1331 01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:49,680 Speaker 1: sold at Marina's. It's a little bit more reaches a 1332 01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:52,880 Speaker 1: little bit broader to try to establish its funds, but 1333 01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:55,160 Speaker 1: those all going to federal funds that are then moved 1334 01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:58,040 Speaker 1: along to states to do wildlife working habits at work. 1335 01:14:58,240 --> 01:15:00,960 Speaker 1: That's correct, and that form the backbone and most of 1336 01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:04,640 Speaker 1: the funding for the state agencies. So everything from wildlife 1337 01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:09,719 Speaker 1: research to trap and transfer efforts, to habitat management um 1338 01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:14,280 Speaker 1: to funding their biologists or conservation officers. There's some money 1339 01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:17,519 Speaker 1: that goes into hunter um, safety of course work and 1340 01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:20,400 Speaker 1: ranges out there. So all of that is funded through 1341 01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:24,400 Speaker 1: those funding sources. There is very little general funder tax 1342 01:15:24,479 --> 01:15:27,360 Speaker 1: payer support in most states. Now there are a few 1343 01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:31,040 Speaker 1: states they have earmark funding. Missouri, Arkansas are a few 1344 01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:34,080 Speaker 1: of those. Minnesota has that, but the majority of other 1345 01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:36,920 Speaker 1: states really do not have tax pay or dollars that 1346 01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:41,240 Speaker 1: support their conservation efforts. Do you find like in your 1347 01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:46,040 Speaker 1: dealings with government officials, do you find that people who 1348 01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:50,200 Speaker 1: that there are people who are coming into government through 1349 01:15:50,240 --> 01:15:52,760 Speaker 1: elected politics who don't have haven't had a lot of 1350 01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:57,680 Speaker 1: exposure to issues around wildlife inhabitant wildlife management who are 1351 01:15:57,720 --> 01:16:01,440 Speaker 1: just like who are kind of unaware of the funding structure. Absolutely, 1352 01:16:01,479 --> 01:16:03,920 Speaker 1: and we used to see this Michigan hand term limits 1353 01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:06,759 Speaker 1: manut much of the country doesn't does at this point, 1354 01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:10,000 Speaker 1: but we're seeing more and more local elected officials that 1355 01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:13,280 Speaker 1: are moving up to being state officials. And that money 1356 01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:16,760 Speaker 1: isn't UM isn't part of the funding mix, you know, 1357 01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:20,040 Speaker 1: cities and townships and county level, So it isn't until 1358 01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:22,719 Speaker 1: they get at the state level they really realize where 1359 01:16:22,720 --> 01:16:25,840 Speaker 1: the funding is coming from. And and there has eye 1360 01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:27,800 Speaker 1: opening form in a way that would be like really 1361 01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:31,519 Speaker 1: like satisfying for me. It's like for them to see 1362 01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:35,200 Speaker 1: how this happens. It is UM. The hard part of 1363 01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:38,280 Speaker 1: it is sometimes they don't recognize some of the protections 1364 01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:42,040 Speaker 1: are in place. Every state that it gets wildlife Restoration 1365 01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:44,479 Speaker 1: funds or pr dollars has to have what they call 1366 01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:48,640 Speaker 1: assent legislation passed in their state, and that says that 1367 01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:50,959 Speaker 1: that funding source is going to stay with the agency 1368 01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:53,599 Speaker 1: that's charged with managing that wildlife, and it can't go 1369 01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:57,320 Speaker 1: to building bridges or highways, it can't go to pay 1370 01:16:57,360 --> 01:17:00,760 Speaker 1: the general funds shortfall. So you get elected officials that 1371 01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:03,120 Speaker 1: will come in and they'll see, you know, a couple 1372 01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:06,960 Speaker 1: of million bucks are going into conservation work and times 1373 01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:08,720 Speaker 1: are tight, We're just gonna take that money and we're 1374 01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:12,000 Speaker 1: gonna use it somewhere else. Well, they put all their 1375 01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:16,000 Speaker 1: federal dollars at risk when they do that, and so 1376 01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:20,880 Speaker 1: it's always an interesting opportunity to educate new legislators on it. 1377 01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:26,280 Speaker 1: And we're really fortunate because the Congressional Sportsmen's Caucus is 1378 01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:31,000 Speaker 1: a large caucus. They're forming sportsmen's caucuses at the state 1379 01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:33,840 Speaker 1: level around the country, and as we do that, we're 1380 01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:37,400 Speaker 1: finding more and more legislators are becoming informed earlier in 1381 01:17:37,439 --> 01:17:41,680 Speaker 1: their careers and and really valuing that and building those partnerships. 1382 01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:45,840 Speaker 1: And they're bipartisan, bicameral, so you have you know, in 1383 01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:48,080 Speaker 1: those caucuses, you'll have both people from the House and 1384 01:17:48,120 --> 01:17:51,880 Speaker 1: the Senate the state level, both Republicans and Democrats. And 1385 01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:55,960 Speaker 1: that's that's pretty good, is it. I think it probably 1386 01:17:56,040 --> 01:18:02,720 Speaker 1: is fair to say that the majority of people in 1387 01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:06,639 Speaker 1: this country who enjoy turkey hunting, the majority of them 1388 01:18:06,680 --> 01:18:10,360 Speaker 1: are not n WTF members. That is true. That is true. 1389 01:18:10,360 --> 01:18:12,040 Speaker 1: And then would you like to say to those people, 1390 01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:14,760 Speaker 1: I'd like to say, step it up, step it up, 1391 01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:17,320 Speaker 1: come join us. Um. Yeah, It's like, if you'd like 1392 01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:20,240 Speaker 1: turkey hunting, you already gott to buy a license anyway, 1393 01:18:20,280 --> 01:18:22,639 Speaker 1: like you gotta buy a license, you gotta buy gear, 1394 01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:25,160 Speaker 1: You're gonna buy a shotgun. It's like, just add into 1395 01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:26,920 Speaker 1: the list of stuff you need to buy, you need 1396 01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:30,439 Speaker 1: to get a membership, that's right, and we'd love to 1397 01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:32,519 Speaker 1: have them come join us because we're doing so much 1398 01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:35,640 Speaker 1: great work and and it. You know, the thing is 1399 01:18:35,720 --> 01:18:39,120 Speaker 1: that it's relatively inexpensive. Our membership is thirty five dollars, 1400 01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:41,960 Speaker 1: but so many of our members give, you know, countless 1401 01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:45,200 Speaker 1: hours of their time, and they'll take new hunters and 1402 01:18:45,280 --> 01:18:49,000 Speaker 1: mentored hunts. They'll wind up doing all kinds of events 1403 01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:52,160 Speaker 1: for you know, individuals who wouldn't normally get a chance 1404 01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:54,240 Speaker 1: to go out and go turkey hunting or learn their 1405 01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:58,639 Speaker 1: hunter safety courses. They'll they'll put that funding towards great 1406 01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:02,360 Speaker 1: habitat projects and working with federal and state agencies to 1407 01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:06,120 Speaker 1: have good habitat out there. It's about piloting new projects 1408 01:19:06,120 --> 01:19:09,600 Speaker 1: to try new things for both habitat and hunting heritage 1409 01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:13,479 Speaker 1: and and quite frankly, it's a great group of people. 1410 01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:16,839 Speaker 1: And so quite often we say that people come because 1411 01:19:16,840 --> 01:19:19,559 Speaker 1: of the mission, but they stay because of the people, 1412 01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:24,479 Speaker 1: because you form tremendous relationships, and that that social network 1413 01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:27,519 Speaker 1: of other people that share your values the enjoy going 1414 01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:29,720 Speaker 1: out and doing the same things you do. Is a 1415 01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:31,920 Speaker 1: fun group of people to hang with too. Is that 1416 01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:34,800 Speaker 1: the normal pathway for for a hunter who's finding his 1417 01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:36,639 Speaker 1: way into the n w TF is just like getting 1418 01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:39,320 Speaker 1: a membership and then kind of staying up to speed 1419 01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:41,960 Speaker 1: on things. Yeah, it could be. I mean, we're finding 1420 01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:45,160 Speaker 1: we're with our our three efforts and our three stands 1421 01:19:45,200 --> 01:19:48,920 Speaker 1: for recruitment, retention, and reactivation of hunters, we're trying to 1422 01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:52,519 Speaker 1: branch out and and go after segments the population that 1423 01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:56,320 Speaker 1: might not have exposure to hunting otherwise. Traditionally, a lot 1424 01:19:56,360 --> 01:19:59,479 Speaker 1: of those what we would call one and done UM 1425 01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:02,120 Speaker 1: program in the past, where we take youth out hunting 1426 01:20:02,120 --> 01:20:04,479 Speaker 1: and we'd have a hunting day and and the rest 1427 01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:06,519 Speaker 1: of it. We're finding that it really takes more than 1428 01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:09,880 Speaker 1: that one touch in order for someone to go through 1429 01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:12,320 Speaker 1: the stages and learn how to be an accomplished hunter 1430 01:20:12,520 --> 01:20:14,960 Speaker 1: and and be comfortable to go out and do it 1431 01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:19,479 Speaker 1: on their own. UM, they need to have several opportunities 1432 01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:22,720 Speaker 1: to be with other hunters, to learn the skills and techniques, 1433 01:20:22,840 --> 01:20:25,960 Speaker 1: to build the confidence up, and eventually we want them 1434 01:20:25,960 --> 01:20:29,400 Speaker 1: to be mentors to new hunters, other new hunters out there. 1435 01:20:29,880 --> 01:20:32,400 Speaker 1: And so as we've we've reached into that, we've tried 1436 01:20:32,439 --> 01:20:36,080 Speaker 1: to reach into markets where we might not have been before. 1437 01:20:36,280 --> 01:20:38,679 Speaker 1: People who who might buy their food in a food 1438 01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:41,719 Speaker 1: co op and be really really interested in and going 1439 01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:44,439 Speaker 1: out and harvesting their own food with a low carbon 1440 01:20:44,479 --> 01:20:47,800 Speaker 1: footprint close to home. No, it's raised, you know, in 1441 01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:50,799 Speaker 1: a in a natural environment, and they want to try hunting, 1442 01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:52,800 Speaker 1: but they didn't grow up in a family that hunted. 1443 01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:55,559 Speaker 1: They don't have any friends that hunts hunt, and so 1444 01:20:55,760 --> 01:20:59,120 Speaker 1: it's about getting those people to come in and be comfortable, 1445 01:20:59,400 --> 01:21:04,400 Speaker 1: um where they don't have that social network around them. Yeah, 1446 01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:08,479 Speaker 1: those are the and I find because we talked to 1447 01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:10,679 Speaker 1: a lot of those people, I find that they feel 1448 01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:14,559 Speaker 1: that the barriers to entry are very high. And also 1449 01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:17,800 Speaker 1: it's the place to go because I feel like if 1450 01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:19,439 Speaker 1: you could take any one of those people and give 1451 01:21:19,479 --> 01:21:21,920 Speaker 1: them a three d acre farm and have exclusive access 1452 01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:24,080 Speaker 1: they hunt all the time. Well, that's it. I mean, 1453 01:21:24,160 --> 01:21:27,439 Speaker 1: it's about learning how to get access to that land, 1454 01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:32,600 Speaker 1: learning where there is public land already available for you, um, 1455 01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:35,840 Speaker 1: finding someone that helps teach them the basic skills to 1456 01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:38,320 Speaker 1: get out there, and then doing it so they feel 1457 01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:40,599 Speaker 1: comfortable and confident that they can do it and they 1458 01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:42,280 Speaker 1: can do it on their own. That's where I feel 1459 01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:46,920 Speaker 1: that that, uh, your organization's access work is extremely important. 1460 01:21:47,760 --> 01:21:51,439 Speaker 1: I think that that, like just from my own you know, 1461 01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:54,880 Speaker 1: findings and and uh communications, I feel it's just like 1462 01:21:54,920 --> 01:21:58,559 Speaker 1: that access part of it one be education about how 1463 01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:02,479 Speaker 1: to learn about what's already available, but also increasing the 1464 01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:07,599 Speaker 1: availability places for people to go is it's I don't 1465 01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:10,160 Speaker 1: think you can. I don't think you can really overstay 1466 01:22:10,200 --> 01:22:12,600 Speaker 1: the importance of that. Well, it's interesting with some of 1467 01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:14,760 Speaker 1: our Learned to Hunt programs, more and more we're doing 1468 01:22:14,800 --> 01:22:16,920 Speaker 1: a lot of those on public lands and having them 1469 01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:19,439 Speaker 1: camp on public lands. So that's stuff that they can 1470 01:22:19,439 --> 01:22:21,840 Speaker 1: go out and do the next weekend on their own. 1471 01:22:21,880 --> 01:22:24,920 Speaker 1: They can get access to the very same lands they 1472 01:22:24,960 --> 01:22:27,360 Speaker 1: can they can go to that campground and do it. 1473 01:22:27,360 --> 01:22:29,800 Speaker 1: It's one of those situations where they don't need to 1474 01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:33,679 Speaker 1: go and um go into private lands and the least 1475 01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:36,760 Speaker 1: situation with a guide. It's one of those situations where 1476 01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:39,760 Speaker 1: it's about taking them out learning about what resources are 1477 01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:43,120 Speaker 1: available to them, actually available that's right that they can 1478 01:22:43,160 --> 01:22:45,400 Speaker 1: go out and recreate and do. That's that's that's a 1479 01:22:45,439 --> 01:22:47,080 Speaker 1: good way looking at it. Yeah, I never thought about 1480 01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:49,840 Speaker 1: that because my brother in law works in Tennessee with 1481 01:22:49,880 --> 01:22:53,160 Speaker 1: the Tennessee Wildlife Federation and they all their most there. 1482 01:22:53,160 --> 01:22:55,000 Speaker 1: I think learn to hunt programs with the kids. They're 1483 01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:58,080 Speaker 1: going to private ranches. They're not ranches, but you know, 1484 01:22:58,320 --> 01:23:01,639 Speaker 1: farms and whatnot. And so yeah, because once you added 1485 01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:03,559 Speaker 1: that program, right, you don't have that acces. That's right, 1486 01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:07,080 Speaker 1: you don't have it. And we're creating unrealistic expectations that 1487 01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:11,040 Speaker 1: they can't go and recreate it you know later on. Um. 1488 01:23:11,160 --> 01:23:12,840 Speaker 1: The other thing we're doing is trying to do more 1489 01:23:12,880 --> 01:23:16,240 Speaker 1: family based activities. You know, with two income families on 1490 01:23:16,479 --> 01:23:18,519 Speaker 1: time off on their weekends and the rest of it, 1491 01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:20,639 Speaker 1: a lot times they want to do things as a family. 1492 01:23:21,240 --> 01:23:24,320 Speaker 1: Where we once might have our widow program or women 1493 01:23:24,320 --> 01:23:28,040 Speaker 1: in the outdoors that were as all women that got together. Um, 1494 01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:31,920 Speaker 1: now we're doing it where it's women and their children. Um. 1495 01:23:32,040 --> 01:23:34,840 Speaker 1: Same thing with father and son or father and daughter. 1496 01:23:35,160 --> 01:23:38,000 Speaker 1: But families that can come out and we're finding where 1497 01:23:38,080 --> 01:23:39,960 Speaker 1: kids want to get out and hunt and the parents 1498 01:23:40,040 --> 01:23:43,240 Speaker 1: don't hunt want to hunt. It's about making sure that 1499 01:23:43,280 --> 01:23:47,679 Speaker 1: the parents enjoy it also and and know enough about 1500 01:23:47,720 --> 01:23:49,559 Speaker 1: it that they're comfortable that they can do it as 1501 01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:53,960 Speaker 1: a family activity. So it's it's changing in terms of 1502 01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:56,679 Speaker 1: because we've lost a couple of generations and getting involved 1503 01:23:56,680 --> 01:24:00,519 Speaker 1: in the outdoors and UM, we're gonna be sccessful. We're 1504 01:24:00,520 --> 01:24:02,439 Speaker 1: going to have to reach beyond folks that are just 1505 01:24:02,560 --> 01:24:06,240 Speaker 1: in our family and social circles. Yeah, people who are 1506 01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:10,080 Speaker 1: in just like the natural lineup of the class that 1507 01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:13,640 Speaker 1: like father to son progression of and we and we 1508 01:24:13,800 --> 01:24:17,240 Speaker 1: found by doing following back on some of our past programming, 1509 01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:19,519 Speaker 1: a lot of our youth programs were really all of 1510 01:24:19,560 --> 01:24:22,720 Speaker 1: our youth. UM. There were folks, they were kids that 1511 01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:26,120 Speaker 1: would have gotten involved in hunting otherwise some exposure. So 1512 01:24:26,240 --> 01:24:28,479 Speaker 1: we're taking far more care to get out there and 1513 01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:34,720 Speaker 1: expose UM youth and young adults who haven't been exposed before. UM. 1514 01:24:34,960 --> 01:24:37,640 Speaker 1: We have a program we have several universities down at 1515 01:24:37,680 --> 01:24:40,560 Speaker 1: our headquarters facility. We have Learned to Hunt curriculum with 1516 01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:45,439 Speaker 1: actually UM programs that we work with students, for instance 1517 01:24:45,479 --> 01:24:48,840 Speaker 1: from Clemson University where you'll have students some of them 1518 01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:52,599 Speaker 1: are even in wildlife profession UM that have never hunted, 1519 01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:55,320 Speaker 1: that really want to learn how to hunt, but they 1520 01:24:55,360 --> 01:24:57,599 Speaker 1: don't know how to get started in it. So we'll 1521 01:24:57,760 --> 01:24:59,960 Speaker 1: bring them down We'll give them hunter safety. We'll teach 1522 01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:01,960 Speaker 1: him that the fundamentals will get them out of a 1523 01:25:02,080 --> 01:25:04,760 Speaker 1: dove hunt. Then we'll go out and do a turkey hunt. 1524 01:25:04,880 --> 01:25:07,120 Speaker 1: We might do a deer hunt in the fall. Will 1525 01:25:07,200 --> 01:25:09,599 Speaker 1: partner with ducks Unlimited, try and get them out hunting 1526 01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:12,439 Speaker 1: with those folks or with pheasant quail forever and get 1527 01:25:12,439 --> 01:25:14,960 Speaker 1: out one of their hunts. But it takes those multiple 1528 01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:18,360 Speaker 1: touches and to make them feel comfortable that they know 1529 01:25:18,479 --> 01:25:20,920 Speaker 1: what they're doing and they can partake in hunting down 1530 01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:24,680 Speaker 1: the road. Uh, do you have any final things you 1531 01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:26,559 Speaker 1: want to add that we haven't that I haven't asked 1532 01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:31,080 Speaker 1: you about that you're dying to. No. We have our 1533 01:25:31,160 --> 01:25:36,120 Speaker 1: national convention coming up here in mid February in Nashville, Tennessee, 1534 01:25:37,000 --> 01:25:40,920 Speaker 1: and it is it is. Yeah, it's a great time. 1535 01:25:41,160 --> 01:25:43,439 Speaker 1: It's a great time for us to UM bring in 1536 01:25:43,479 --> 01:25:47,479 Speaker 1: a lot of our volunteers and success, celebrate their success 1537 01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:50,080 Speaker 1: and what all they do for the organization and for 1538 01:25:50,280 --> 01:25:53,560 Speaker 1: turkeys and conservation around the country. We bring in a 1539 01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:57,000 Speaker 1: lot of our agency partners UM. We usually have about 1540 01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:00,320 Speaker 1: thirty people from the U. S. Forest Service. There, people 1541 01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:04,840 Speaker 1: from BLM laws agencies, have people and the Turkey Federation 1542 01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:09,280 Speaker 1: formed a technical advisory committee long before even before Dr 1543 01:26:09,400 --> 01:26:12,519 Speaker 1: James Earl Kinnemer was the head conservation as the Turkey Federation, 1544 01:26:13,040 --> 01:26:15,920 Speaker 1: where those folks that where the technical experts amongst all 1545 01:26:15,960 --> 01:26:18,320 Speaker 1: the states come together and sit around a table and 1546 01:26:18,360 --> 01:26:21,080 Speaker 1: they share the latest and greatest and Turkey research and 1547 01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:25,640 Speaker 1: and talk about the concerns and problems are having in 1548 01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:29,320 Speaker 1: the opportunities and come together and make recommendations to us 1549 01:26:29,880 --> 01:26:33,200 Speaker 1: as well as helping each other maintain that population and 1550 01:26:33,280 --> 01:26:35,479 Speaker 1: good habitat out there. And the convention is open to 1551 01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:40,839 Speaker 1: the public. It is open the public. It's February fourteen, 1552 01:26:40,880 --> 01:26:46,040 Speaker 1: fifteen sixteen. Through the right and uh in Nashville, Yep, 1553 01:26:46,280 --> 01:26:48,840 Speaker 1: come on in and people can wander in off the streets. 1554 01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:52,680 Speaker 1: That's right. UM, we'll have you, will sell you a membership, 1555 01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:55,400 Speaker 1: will give you entrance to it. There's a great trade 1556 01:26:55,479 --> 01:26:59,280 Speaker 1: show if you are interested in turkey calling, if you're 1557 01:26:59,360 --> 01:27:03,160 Speaker 1: interested and seeing people that make decorative calls, that do 1558 01:27:03,400 --> 01:27:07,240 Speaker 1: calling um demonstrations as well as contest. I mean, there's 1559 01:27:07,360 --> 01:27:09,920 Speaker 1: Texadermy to take a look at. There's all kinds of 1560 01:27:09,960 --> 01:27:14,120 Speaker 1: cool stuff. Turkey calling competitions are pretty interesting. They are there, 1561 01:27:14,680 --> 01:27:16,960 Speaker 1: so it's fun. And then in the evenings we have 1562 01:27:17,080 --> 01:27:19,559 Speaker 1: celebrations just about every night where we get a chance 1563 01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:22,160 Speaker 1: to honor people that donate money to us, that give 1564 01:27:22,200 --> 01:27:25,120 Speaker 1: their time and energy to to raise money, that do 1565 01:27:25,280 --> 01:27:30,000 Speaker 1: partnerships and events, and so it's really really a good time. Yeah, 1566 01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:32,760 Speaker 1: and you got your final comments. What's the easiest way 1567 01:27:32,840 --> 01:27:35,040 Speaker 1: for someone to become a member if they're not going 1568 01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:37,800 Speaker 1: to the just go to the n w TF website. 1569 01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:40,000 Speaker 1: We have the right on the on the website front 1570 01:27:40,040 --> 01:27:41,760 Speaker 1: page you can sign up to be a member. It 1571 01:27:41,800 --> 01:27:45,080 Speaker 1: will take your credit card and issue a member number, 1572 01:27:45,240 --> 01:27:47,519 Speaker 1: and we'd love to have you join us. And then 1573 01:27:47,640 --> 01:27:49,920 Speaker 1: awesome if you on Turkey's Man, you really ought to 1574 01:27:49,960 --> 01:27:52,679 Speaker 1: be doing how you do. And then there's also events 1575 01:27:52,920 --> 01:27:55,479 Speaker 1: um listed there by your area that you can take 1576 01:27:55,520 --> 01:27:57,200 Speaker 1: a look at. If you want to go to a banquet, 1577 01:27:57,360 --> 01:27:59,920 Speaker 1: you can also buy a memberships as your banquet ticket. 1578 01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:01,960 Speaker 1: And Steve and I've talked about a lot of great 1579 01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:04,240 Speaker 1: benefit of being a members. You get to read is 1580 01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:07,040 Speaker 1: a Turkey Country. That's right, We're gonna We're gonta magazine. 1581 01:28:07,600 --> 01:28:10,439 Speaker 1: It's like I really appreciate because there is a lot 1582 01:28:10,479 --> 01:28:13,000 Speaker 1: of science in there, and I like reading the science 1583 01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:15,360 Speaker 1: and stuff that goes on in there. Yeah, we're trying 1584 01:28:15,400 --> 01:28:18,280 Speaker 1: to do a good mix of of UM telling people 1585 01:28:18,320 --> 01:28:20,559 Speaker 1: what they need to know about the latest and greatest 1586 01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:23,760 Speaker 1: UM everything from great products to use to the best 1587 01:28:23,800 --> 01:28:29,440 Speaker 1: science available out there. Yeh, we need a longer podcast 1588 01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:34,360 Speaker 1: on this. I have many many questions for you, Becky, 1589 01:28:34,560 --> 01:28:36,960 Speaker 1: but you're not, like you're not like a super huge 1590 01:28:37,080 --> 01:28:42,160 Speaker 1: turkey hunter. Well, growing up in Montana Turkey yeah yeah, yeah, 1591 01:28:42,400 --> 01:28:46,040 Speaker 1: And now I approach it much much differently. But we've 1592 01:28:46,080 --> 01:28:47,880 Speaker 1: talked about this, like growing up in Montana and we 1593 01:28:47,920 --> 01:28:50,880 Speaker 1: were always like, why are why is every hunting TV 1594 01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:57,040 Speaker 1: show turkeys? What is? What is? It's fun? And we 1595 01:28:57,160 --> 01:29:03,360 Speaker 1: took our cow olke diaphragms and wear and calling turkey 1596 01:29:03,479 --> 01:29:05,439 Speaker 1: and if that didn't work out, we'd run around the 1597 01:29:05,479 --> 01:29:07,760 Speaker 1: hill and shoot him, you know. And it just took 1598 01:29:07,800 --> 01:29:09,880 Speaker 1: a while and then all of a sudden we're like, oh, 1599 01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:15,400 Speaker 1: this is l cunning in the springtime. It is, But yeah, 1600 01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:20,800 Speaker 1: we don't have enough time. But I absolutely agree with you, 1601 01:29:21,040 --> 01:29:23,360 Speaker 1: like we as hunters do a really poor job of 1602 01:29:24,760 --> 01:29:30,280 Speaker 1: uh being honest with ourselves on how intimidating this sport is, 1603 01:29:31,080 --> 01:29:34,920 Speaker 1: and we put up more barriers to entry than then 1604 01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:37,360 Speaker 1: we even think about because we want to feel like 1605 01:29:37,439 --> 01:29:44,479 Speaker 1: we're cool too. Um and yeah, I feel like you're 1606 01:29:44,479 --> 01:29:47,760 Speaker 1: a good egg. And I wish we had more more 1607 01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:52,720 Speaker 1: biologists in your position, a lot more nonprofits because yeah, 1608 01:29:54,040 --> 01:29:57,559 Speaker 1: still a few things I gotta ask you, but um, yeah, 1609 01:29:57,800 --> 01:29:59,840 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed the time. Thank you for letting me 1610 01:29:59,880 --> 01:30:02,320 Speaker 1: be you here and listen. Yeah, well, thank you. All right, 1611 01:30:02,439 --> 01:30:04,599 Speaker 1: it's been fun. And I'm going to the National Wild 1612 01:30:04,640 --> 01:30:07,240 Speaker 1: Turkey Federal I know that's awesome. We'll look for you 1613 01:30:07,360 --> 01:30:10,879 Speaker 1: down there were banquet. I'm going to the National Convention. 1614 01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:15,240 Speaker 1: Already booked my flights. Yeah, really, there you go. So 1615 01:30:15,320 --> 01:30:18,400 Speaker 1: if you go down there, look up, look for Callahan, 1616 01:30:19,160 --> 01:30:21,479 Speaker 1: say hi to him. All right, Becky, thank you very 1617 01:30:21,560 --> 01:30:23,280 Speaker 1: much for joining us. Thank you my pleasure.