Speaker 1: Hey, it's Alec Baldwin here. Before we launch our next
Speaker 1: season of Here's the Thing at iHeartRadio in January, I
Speaker 1: thought I'd play some of my favorite shows from the archives.
Speaker 1: Audra McDonald occupies a unique place in the American theater.
Speaker 1: With six Tony Awards, she has the most of any
Speaker 1: actress in history. She is renowned for her work in
Speaker 1: opera as well as in films and on television. Here
Speaker 1: is my conversation with Audra.
Speaker 2: McDonald svens.
Speaker 3: Hoatchuny.
Speaker 1: Much like the staggering beauty of her singing, Audra McDonald
Speaker 1: is impossible to ignore. The only person to sweep all
Speaker 1: four acting categories at the Tonys, she's one of the
Speaker 1: most decorated Broadway stars of all time. Reviews of her
Speaker 1: award winning performances overflow with accolades. She's spellbinding, radiant, and
Speaker 1: wrenchingly human. This year, the Julliard graduate took on her
Speaker 1: first voice over role, playing Madame Gardrobe in Disney's Beauty
Speaker 1: and the Beast. The performance was so great one critic
Speaker 1: wrote that her name and the credits prompted theatergoers to
Speaker 1: erupt in cheers. I sat down with Audre before her
Speaker 1: debut this summer in London's West End, where she takes
Speaker 1: on Billy Holliday, whose life as a black female performer
Speaker 1: hits close to home.
Speaker 3: Specifically for me, I would say that there was an
Speaker 3: expectation on my part that things would get easier as
Speaker 3: a result of being successful. You know, well, what do
Speaker 3: you mean, they're going to make more money than I am,
Speaker 3: and yet we're doing the same thing, we're playing we're
Speaker 3: basically equal as far as the roles are concerned.
Speaker 4: Or what did you do to address that? If anything?
Speaker 3: I didn't. For I didn't do anything for a while
Speaker 3: I should have, and I didn't. I just went along well.
Speaker 3: And especially you know, when you're an actor, it's like
Speaker 3: you're always being told you should be grateful you've got
Speaker 3: the job, you know.
Speaker 1: So being told that if you if you push too much,
Speaker 1: you're going to get a bad reputation for being Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and I those actors that are infinitely less talented than
Speaker 1: you all the time.
Speaker 3: They're just easy to easier to work with, and they
Speaker 3: don't they don't cause in terms of.
Speaker 4: Being an African American performer, did that change?
Speaker 3: Well, I tell you, I mean, let me give you
Speaker 3: an example. Of how in some ways it changed and
Speaker 3: didn't change. I have to I have to acknowledge the
Speaker 3: fact that I am someone who has had uh an
Speaker 3: incredible opportunity in terms of sort of breaking down barriers
Speaker 3: as far as like color bland casting, being color blind,
Speaker 3: cast as Carrie Pepperridge in Carousel, you know, or the
Speaker 3: fact that I played Mother Abbess and the Sound of
Speaker 3: Music Live, you know, and you know a lot of
Speaker 3: people have issues with that, but you know, I was
Speaker 3: the one that got the opportunity to do that. You know,
Speaker 3: when I was doing Annie for ABC, they did a
Speaker 3: version of that with Kathy Bates and Victor Garber and
Speaker 3: Alan Comming and Kristin Chenowith, and they cast me as
Speaker 3: Grace Ferrell and there was a scene at the end
Speaker 3: where Grace Ferrell and Daddy Warbocks proposes to Grace Ferrell
Speaker 3: at the end, the happy endings happening, you know.
Speaker 4: And Victor was Daddy Warbucks.
Speaker 3: Yes, he was my daddy. I love him too. And
Speaker 3: actually you'll appreciate this. We were sitting around one day
Speaker 3: on the set and you know, in a big, gorgeous
Speaker 3: mansion that Daddy war Books has and we were sitting
Speaker 3: between takes, and I was sitting next to Victor and
Speaker 3: I just got a little emotional. I said, Victor, what
Speaker 3: if this was really our house and we were really
Speaker 3: getting married and we had all this money and this life.
Speaker 3: And he said, in the just true Victor fashion, Darling,
Speaker 3: get a hold of yourself. You can totally hear Victors
Speaker 3: saying that, right. But anyway, so we were film king Barriers. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we're filming. We were filming Annie, and so we shot
Speaker 3: the scene where you know, Daddy Warbucks gives Grace Farrell
Speaker 3: the ring and it's lovely, and then we get word
Speaker 3: that we have to come in on a Saturday to
Speaker 3: do some reshoots. And Rob Marshall was directing, and Neil
Speaker 3: Maren and Craig Zayden, who were wonderful, wonderful producers and
Speaker 3: have been very kind to me over the years and
Speaker 3: give me a lot of work. That cast me in
Speaker 3: Sound of Music as mother Abbess, and they said we
Speaker 3: have to do some reshoots, and then they took me
Speaker 3: aside and said, it turns out that Disney might be
Speaker 3: a little uncomfortable or the powers that be. I don't
Speaker 3: know if it was Disney abcre I don't know. We
Speaker 3: are comfortable. There might be some issues with Daddy Warbucks
Speaker 3: actually marrying Grace. So forty year was this nineteen ninety
Speaker 3: nine nine, So we need to reshoot the scene and
Speaker 3: do it without.
Speaker 4: You're hooking up the Daddy Warbucks.
Speaker 3: Giving Yeah, And I was devastated. I was I was devastated.
Speaker 3: It's one of those things where you know you're starting
Speaker 3: to feel good, You're starting to feel like, oh, there's
Speaker 3: really change coming. Things are happening here. I am playing
Speaker 3: this role and it's it's Annie, but nobody cares.
Speaker 4: And it's what did everybody else feel? Including Victor?
Speaker 3: I think everybody and I think they were all kind
Speaker 3: of horrified, and you know, and.
Speaker 4: Also did they use the product in the film?
Speaker 3: Rob said, Okay, so we're all going to come in
Speaker 3: on a Saturday, and you know how expensive that is
Speaker 3: when you're only shooting Monday through Friday. Come in on
Speaker 3: a Saturday just to reshoot the scene. So everybody comes
Speaker 3: in and we get dressed up in that moment for
Speaker 3: that scene, and Rob does one big master take of
Speaker 3: Daddy Warbucks just sort of going, hey and bait buddy
Speaker 3: a buddy, It's great in this great this happened okay,
Speaker 3: exactly you over there, you person, you and he got
Speaker 3: one shot, one master take one shot. And then Rob said, okay,
Speaker 3: got that, so while we're here, and then he proceeded
Speaker 3: to reshoot other things that he thought he could make
Speaker 3: photos it, so he tanked to it.
Speaker 4: He did tank it so they couldn't use it.
Speaker 3: So they ended up using where so you look in
Speaker 3: the film and Daddy Warbucks proposes to Grace Ferrell in
Speaker 3: that and that's because that's because of Rob, you know,
Speaker 3: and his courage, his courage. Absolutely. And then at the
Speaker 3: end of the year when the film came out, Time
Speaker 3: magazine said something, or maybe it was a newsweek and
Speaker 3: of he said that in Things that Happened this Year,
Speaker 3: Daddy Warbucks Marry is a black Grace Ferrell and nobody cares.
Speaker 3: So I don't know what that's the answer to, but
Speaker 3: it's just an issue of things that you know, you think,
Speaker 3: you get to a certain point where you know things
Speaker 3: are changing, and then boom, you're sort of slammed back
Speaker 3: into that reality.
Speaker 4: What are you in the middle of doing now?
Speaker 3: I can't remember you rehearsing some show. Yes, Yes, I've
Speaker 3: Got a Lady Day was on the West End.
Speaker 4: You're going to go to London.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've never been. No, I've never performed on the
Speaker 3: West End.
Speaker 4: That's what I mean. You've never performed over there.
Speaker 3: Not I performed, but never on the West End. I've
Speaker 3: never I've done like concerts and stuff that I've never
Speaker 3: done a show.
Speaker 4: You never did a legit show over there? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So what of the places outside of New York have
Speaker 1: you performed? That's an interesting thing to think about.
Speaker 3: Well, in terms of like concert work everywhere, but actual shows,
Speaker 3: I've only done, Well, that's not true. I did the
Speaker 3: Secret Garden Tour million years ago. So you do kind
Speaker 3: of a national tour, you go all over the place. No, La, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I did it, but as you know, ensemble member, you know,
Speaker 3: and then I did Masterclass is the only other one
Speaker 3: that I did. We did that in LA and at
Speaker 3: the Kennedy Center. We did the taper at the Kennedy
Speaker 3: Center and plays and players in Philadelphia before we came
Speaker 3: into New York. But that's been the nineties.
Speaker 1: Do you find that you stay in New York and
Speaker 1: try to stay in New York if that's home and
Speaker 1: that's easier for you, and well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it is Broadway.
Speaker 3: It's Broadway, and that's where I want to be. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but especially since you know, since having kids, you know,
Speaker 3: I mean, do you have no Well, I have a
Speaker 3: six month old, and I have a sixteen year old,
Speaker 3: and I have two step sons who are sixteen and thirteen.
Speaker 3: So it's you have a sixteen year old and it's yours,
Speaker 3: that's mine.
Speaker 4: And you have a six month old that's mine, that's yours.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, you know what that's like, having a bit
Speaker 3: of a spread in between.
Speaker 4: You had a kid when you were very young, the
Speaker 4: sixteen year.
Speaker 3: Old, Well, that's very kind of you to say. No,
Speaker 3: I was thirty when I had my first and now
Speaker 3: I'm forty six.
Speaker 4: And you want to have another baby?
Speaker 3: I you know, I or you were drunk on a
Speaker 3: sailboat your husband?
Speaker 4: What happened? Which is it?
Speaker 3: Which is it? It's it's it's somewhere in between. It's
Speaker 3: really that the Broncos won the Super Bowl. Seriously, my god,
Speaker 3: and my husband is a big Broncos fan, and nine
Speaker 3: months later history the rest is Sally James McDonald's wins. Now, yeah,
Speaker 3: what are you gonna dow?
Speaker 4: Was that for you?
Speaker 1: Because I mean, I don't always want to ask. I
Speaker 1: was saying, how I want to do another show, but
Speaker 1: I don't want to be away at dinner time every night. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for four to six months, that's what's that like?
Speaker 4: Do you bring the kids to the theater?
Speaker 3: I did, well, I certainly did with my sixteen year old.
Speaker 3: When she was little, she was at the theater all
Speaker 3: the time with me. That was kind of the only way.
Speaker 3: And I imagine, well, I know for a fact, when
Speaker 3: I'm in London, I'm staying very close to the theater,
Speaker 3: and she'll be at the theater. And and if I
Speaker 3: were to get another Broadway show, I would just bring
Speaker 3: her there because you don't want to You don't want
Speaker 3: to miss anything, and you don't you don't want to
Speaker 3: make them feel like.
Speaker 4: What about the baby?
Speaker 3: Yeah, the baby will come. Absolutely, she has to just
Speaker 3: be with you right up till the half hour. That's
Speaker 3: what I've been doing now this year. You know, since
Speaker 3: i've had her, I've started back concertizing and literally I've
Speaker 3: had her backstage with either my husband when he can
Speaker 3: join me, or my babysitter, and I will sing and
Speaker 3: then run off stage and nurse her and then you know,
Speaker 3: go do your meet and greet or whatever. And actually
Speaker 3: during one concert she was really really fussy, and so
Speaker 3: my husband went on and performed, and I ran off
Speaker 3: stage and nursed her and called her down and ran
Speaker 3: back on stage. Crazy. Crazy.
Speaker 4: Where did you meet him? Your husband?
Speaker 3: We met doing one hundred and ten in the Shade,
Speaker 3: the show on Broadway back in two thousand and seven. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it was a long time ago, really, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: it was a crazy time too. I I met him
Speaker 3: and then my dad was killed in the plane crash
Speaker 3: like a couple of weeks, like about six weeks later.
Speaker 3: Do your dad he was a high school principal that
Speaker 3: you grew up in California? Yeah, but you were born
Speaker 3: in Germany. I was born in Germany.
Speaker 4: What was he doing over there?
Speaker 3: He was in the he was in the army. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and then yeah, I was raised in Fresno, California. My
Speaker 3: dad was a high school principal and then he went
Speaker 3: on to become an associate superintendent of schools there. But
Speaker 3: his passion was flying, and he flew small planes and
Speaker 3: he had his own and he was he had just
Speaker 3: recently retired and he had his own plane that he
Speaker 3: was flying. And yeah, he had where were you that
Speaker 3: I was actually walking. I just finished the matinee of
Speaker 3: one hundred and in the shape. We were still in previews,
Speaker 3: and I was walking with my husband. He wasn't my
Speaker 3: husband at the time, he was just a friend at
Speaker 3: the time. A bunch of us were walking to meet
Speaker 3: the rest of the cast to have you know, a
Speaker 3: post you know, Sunday matinee drink with the entire cast.
Speaker 3: And my stepmom.
Speaker 4: Called and said her dad was remarried.
Speaker 3: Yes, he was remarried. And your mom still yes, my mom,
Speaker 3: she lives next door to me in the city. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: or yeah, in Westchester. When she retired she left town
Speaker 3: breath yes, yes, but yeah. My stepmom called me and said,
Speaker 3: and I was just I was on fifty third Street
Speaker 3: between eighth and ninth Avenues, and it was it was
Speaker 3: It's interesting, you know in those moments, you know, you
Speaker 3: see what happens in film and you think it'll be similar,
Speaker 3: you know, in real life, and it's it seldom is,
Speaker 3: you know, as an act Well, I didn't. I didn't
Speaker 3: compute what she was saying. You know, she said, your dad,
Speaker 3: dad had an accident while he was flying the plane
Speaker 3: and he didn't make it. And I kept saying, oh.
Speaker 3: I said, okay, so where is he now? And she said, Audra,
Speaker 3: he didn't make it. I was like, okay, well where
Speaker 3: is Yeah? But I wasn't. It wasn't computing either, you know,
Speaker 3: and I was just really stunned. And it took it
Speaker 3: took a day for me to really start to cry,
Speaker 3: you know, because it just it ver close to him, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: very close, and it just wasn't making sense, you know.
Speaker 3: So it's interesting. I mean, it's been ten years on
Speaker 3: it'll be ten years actually next week that he's since
Speaker 3: his passing, and but it's just interesting. As an actor,
Speaker 3: this sounds so cold and callous and it's not. It's
Speaker 3: not meant to be. But as an actor, there was
Speaker 3: a part of me that was sort of floating away
Speaker 3: from my body watching the scene, going, I don't think
Speaker 3: you're having the right reaction, right, you know, I don't
Speaker 3: think process. Yeah, yeah, that's not you know, if this
Speaker 3: were a scene you'd fall to the ground and you know,
Speaker 3: break into a million pieces, and you're not doing that.
Speaker 3: You're you're playing the scene. It's so strange. But actually
Speaker 3: I know exactly when I really started to cry about
Speaker 3: my dad's passing and it was I I found out.
Speaker 3: We were getting ready to open one hundred and ten
Speaker 3: in the Shade, and so we're getting ready to go
Speaker 3: into critics Week where critics are coming and they're saying
Speaker 3: I'm saying I have to go, and they're saying, you're
Speaker 3: the star of the show. You can't leave as I
Speaker 3: have to. And so they canceled a couple of shows
Speaker 3: so I could fly home to California.
Speaker 4: This is for their father's funeral. Yeah, they said, you
Speaker 4: can't leave.
Speaker 3: Well know, they were just they were like, how do
Speaker 3: we do this? You know? And actually it was at
Speaker 3: the end of it was like right at Tony, what's
Speaker 3: it called it? When it's the cutoff time? Qualification time?
Speaker 3: So everybody was like, what do we do? So they
Speaker 3: were kind enough to cancel enough shows for me to
Speaker 3: run home for the funeral and trying to work that
Speaker 3: out with my stepmom who was devastated and you know,
Speaker 3: really broken, and trying to keep her together and keep
Speaker 3: the family together and figure it all out. And it
Speaker 3: wasn't until after the funeral you're saying hello to everybody.
Speaker 3: And I just kind of kept it together the whole time.
Speaker 3: And then as soon as I agreed it like the
Speaker 3: thirtieth person or something here, like a thousand people at
Speaker 3: his funeral. He was very, very well known and very
Speaker 3: loved in Fresno, California. And his older sister came and said,
Speaker 3: how you doing.
Speaker 4: And that's when I lost it, when you emptied out.
Speaker 3: I emptied out. But it was you know, But once again,
Speaker 3: that's not how I mean. Maybe maybe a good director,
Speaker 3: but that's not how I just imagine the film.
Speaker 4: It was an actress.
Speaker 1: You're always controlling and managing your feelings. Anyway, there was
Speaker 1: the lovers and knobs and dials inside of us. They
Speaker 1: was in there playing with all the yes.
Speaker 4: Of course that we get paid for. You know.
Speaker 1: So you moved to Fresno when you grew up in
Speaker 1: Fresno beginning at what age?
Speaker 3: I was nine months old?
Speaker 4: To me, here's your little baby. So you're a child.
Speaker 1: And so there's the Order of McDonald who grows up
Speaker 1: in California. Yeah, there's the Order of McDonald, who now
Speaker 1: is one of the princesses of the Broadway Theater. There's
Speaker 1: like a Mount Rushmore. It's you and burned Itad and
Speaker 1: all these chicks. Now, who are these the greatest singers
Speaker 1: in the world, and I want to talk about the
Speaker 1: order in between. So the order in between when you
Speaker 1: first started into the business, when people are hiring you,
Speaker 1: and as you're building your career in New York and singing,
Speaker 1: what were they hiring you for?
Speaker 3: Well, I think it had more to do with if
Speaker 3: I look back on it now, and no one's ever
Speaker 3: asked me this, So kudos to you. Well, I do try,
Speaker 3: You've got the talent, but I think it had more
Speaker 3: to do with I wasn't what people were expecting, you know,
Speaker 3: back in those days. Can I say back in those days, yeah,
Speaker 3: the early nineties. You know, you'd go an audition for
Speaker 3: something and they'd see an African American girl in her
Speaker 3: twenties walk in, and I think they'd expect some big
Speaker 3: gospel voice, or you know, they're like, can you be
Speaker 3: street smart? You know all those code words and whatnot,
Speaker 3: and I would sort of break out with the pseudo
Speaker 3: operatic voice that had Broadway qualities and was a bit goofy,
Speaker 3: and so I think it just intrigued people and anything.
Speaker 3: I think that's even how I got into Juilliard. When
Speaker 3: I auditioned for Juilliard and I wasn't you know, I
Speaker 3: wasn't really wanting to pursue classical music, but I thought,
Speaker 3: I'll audition on the strength of my voice. That's that's
Speaker 3: my strength.
Speaker 4: Was that a goal to go to Juilliard?
Speaker 3: Well, I wanted to go to New York. I wanted
Speaker 3: to live in New York Juilliard. Was it Lincoln Center,
Speaker 3: you know, you know.
Speaker 4: The good beginning.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I thought I'd be able to get like
Speaker 3: my acting classes in nancing class as well. I was there.
Speaker 3: I didn't realize that once you're in a program, once
Speaker 3: you're in department, you know, you shall not stray. You
Speaker 3: stay in that department, and you know, so I just
Speaker 3: went in there an audition, didn't really know what I
Speaker 3: was doing, and kind of riffed at the end of
Speaker 3: a Mozart area. You're not supposed to rift with Mozart,
Speaker 3: and I did. And I said, I was a meto
Speaker 3: soprano and I'm singing subrette, you know, roles for them,
Speaker 3: showing them. I sang a subrette Aria from the note
Speaker 3: to figure out maryagifigure out.
Speaker 4: And so for people who don't know what subrette is,
Speaker 4: what is that? I'm one of those people.
Speaker 3: By the way you, Dorett, Well, Subrette is sort of
Speaker 3: like a really high light soprano, not necessarily coloratura, but
Speaker 3: she's like a young, sweet heroin hype lighter sound, not
Speaker 3: like a full lyric soprano. And so it's a lot
Speaker 3: of people say the ena roles despina, or it's theerlena,
Speaker 3: the little cute roles. So anyway, that's what I sang.
Speaker 3: I sang one of those arias. But then I said
Speaker 3: I'm a mezzo soprano, which I just was just that
Speaker 3: just showed how much I didn't know, how little I do.
Speaker 3: And they laughed at me and they said how old
Speaker 3: are you And I said I'm seventeen and they just
Speaker 3: said okay, And I thought, well, I blew that. And
Speaker 3: then two weeks later they called me and said we
Speaker 3: want you to come to Juilliard. But I don't think
Speaker 3: I think it was just intrigue on their part.
Speaker 4: Are you there for four years? Well, would you start working?
Speaker 3: No? I was there for five years, but.
Speaker 4: You finished there, you graduated from there?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I took a leave of absence because I had
Speaker 3: a suicide attempt actually while I was there, So I
Speaker 3: took a leave of absence there's a lot that happened
Speaker 3: between the Order and Fresnor, California and the Order who's
Speaker 3: on Broadway.
Speaker 4: Now, okay, we're going to cover as much of that
Speaker 4: as you care to time.
Speaker 3: I'm completely open about it.
Speaker 1: So you're in Juilliard, Yeah, what years was that? That
Speaker 1: five years was from when to when?
Speaker 3: It was from nineteen eighty eight to nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 1: Right, So when you're there, was it trouble for you
Speaker 1: fitting in? Did you feel uncomfortable and out of place?
Speaker 2: There?
Speaker 4: Absolutely was that a part of what led you to
Speaker 4: do what you did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I felt out of place artistically. I felt all
Speaker 3: my life growing up in Prest, California, all I ever
Speaker 3: wanted to do was beyond Broadway. And then I thought,
Speaker 3: you know, let me audition for Juilliard. Just didn't think
Speaker 3: it through audition, got in. So everybody back at home
Speaker 3: is like, wow, Udra got into Juilliard in New York.
Speaker 3: She's you know, she's gonna make it. And then I
Speaker 3: get to Juilliard and I'm studying classical music. I'm like,
Speaker 3: this isn't what I want to do. I don't want
Speaker 3: to be an apt for singer. Why surely they're going
Speaker 3: to let me go take some acting classes, surely go
Speaker 3: do some dance lists, and surely didn't go an audition
Speaker 3: for Broadway shows. No, you have to just study, you know.
Speaker 4: You are enjoying it.
Speaker 3: No, And I felt lost. I felt completely lost. I
Speaker 3: felt like I was.
Speaker 4: Offered about that.
Speaker 1: But that alone, I'm assuming, if I'm wrong, didn't lead
Speaker 1: you to do something drastic.
Speaker 4: What else?
Speaker 3: No, I mean, well, you know, to an extent, you
Speaker 3: can say, yeah, well, you know, like I said, I'm
Speaker 3: open about it, because you know, I think I'm a
Speaker 3: case of it. It gets better, you know. But I
Speaker 3: so I was lost in terms of that, and then
Speaker 3: feeling like I couldn't just quit and go back home
Speaker 3: because I would look like a failure back at home
Speaker 3: And you know, I had boy trouble while I was there.
Speaker 3: And so the culmination of being where I wanted to
Speaker 3: be in New York City, thinking I'm finally going to
Speaker 3: realize my dreams, stuck and failing miserably at Juilliard, not
Speaker 3: being able to admit to anybody at home what was
Speaker 3: going on, Not being able to go home because I
Speaker 3: would have looked like a failure living literally on Broadway
Speaker 3: on Broadway my apartment. My address was Broadway twenty five
Speaker 3: oh eight Broadway third. I lived with the residential the
Speaker 3: old Broadway like well, the wild wild West.
Speaker 4: Anything north of Baby sixth Street, forget it.
Speaker 3: You did not in those days.
Speaker 4: You shield and a sword to go to the grocery store.
Speaker 3: Right and crazy to look at it now, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: But what I'm curious about is that the woman, the
Speaker 1: young woman from Fresno, who goes to New York. And again,
Speaker 1: let me put a fine point of this before you answer,
Speaker 1: which is, and you say you have boy troubles? Are
Speaker 1: you dating a different kind of boy now with Juliet No,
Speaker 1: the boys that were hard for you to understand?
Speaker 3: No, I was, you know I was.
Speaker 4: Was that all the same?
Speaker 3: Well? I was just not being treated well by a boy. Yeah,
Speaker 3: boys are the same.
Speaker 4: All boys in the same week. Yeah, Ok, thank you.
Speaker 4: My guest has been Augum McDonald. Everyone, good night, everybody.
Speaker 1: No, but but but but The reason I asked this,
Speaker 1: I want to are you a fish out of water
Speaker 1: in every way?
Speaker 3: Yes? I was a fish out of water in every
Speaker 3: way except for the fact that I was in New York,
Speaker 3: which is what I knew I wanted. I knew that
Speaker 3: much was right, but everything else I kept you grounded, yes,
Speaker 3: but everything else was wrong. And so you know, in
Speaker 3: those days, I was, you know, twenty twenty one. I
Speaker 3: couldn't see past the fact that I had gotten here
Speaker 3: and everything up to up to now had gone swimmingly,
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden it was all falling apart.
Speaker 1: And if you don't mind my asking what what were
Speaker 1: the the ramp up the time and what you were
Speaker 1: thinking and feeling. And the only reason I asked this
Speaker 1: for people who listen to this, who might be young
Speaker 1: people and artists who experience a certain kind of pain
Speaker 1: that you experience in this business that I think is
Speaker 1: very unique, because you exude in your work. You seem
Speaker 1: so confident and so powerful.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's because I'm now, I'm I'm where
Speaker 3: I'm supposed to be. I'm doing what I'm supposed to
Speaker 3: be doing. I'm doing what I think if you want
Speaker 3: to get I don't.
Speaker 4: Know, you're not playing the Eena roles anymore, No.
Speaker 3: No, no, But I mean it's more about I'm artistically fulfilled.
Speaker 3: I think my artistic soul is fulfilled. It's doing what
Speaker 3: it's supposed to do.
Speaker 5: You agree, look cappy to me.
Speaker 1: Not that she doesn't still find challenges coming up. Audra
Speaker 1: McDonald talks about a song that's been rather.
Speaker 4: Hard to sing.
Speaker 1: Audra McDonald isn't the only star who struggled to find
Speaker 1: her voice.
Speaker 6: I mean when I tell people I was extremely shy
Speaker 6: and nobody believes me.
Speaker 4: Now that's the thing that people have to overcome.
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly.
Speaker 6: You know, I've found a lot of comedians to be
Speaker 6: extraordinarily serious and draws withdrawn sometimes, So yeah, I think
Speaker 6: sometimes we overcome things by going after the very thing
Speaker 6: that really eludes us.
Speaker 1: To hear more about Renee Fleming's story, go to Hear's
Speaker 1: Thething dot org. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening
Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing. If ever there was a track
Speaker 1: record that warranted dividom, it is Audra McDonald's. But despite
Speaker 1: her unparalleled fame, the Queen of Broadway is disarmingly humble,
Speaker 1: perhaps the mark of a person who's endured great pain
Speaker 1: in her case. While studying at Juilliard.
Speaker 3: This was my third year and it had been just
Speaker 3: yet another year of floundering and doing poorly in all
Speaker 3: my classes, and teachers just saying you know, you've got
Speaker 3: to give over to your operatic sound, and me not
Speaker 3: wanting to, not knowing what that was. And when I
Speaker 3: would get close to an operatic sound, I'd say, I
Speaker 3: don't want to sound like that. So I felt like
Speaker 3: I was just being pushed and they were doing their
Speaker 3: job rightfully. So this is like, this is your Juilliard
Speaker 3: to study. This is what you're going to do to
Speaker 3: push me into a place that just wasn't me artistically.
Speaker 3: So that coupled with being you know, twenty twenty one
Speaker 3: by yourself in New York and being treated poorly by
Speaker 3: whatever his name was, what's his name, We're that no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: he's he's fine. He's a great guy now. But at
Speaker 3: any rate, So all of that combined with me being
Speaker 3: sort of like the great hope from my hometown too.
Speaker 3: You know, Order's gonna make it. If anybody's gonna make
Speaker 3: it on Broadway, it's going to be Order. I I
Speaker 3: the boy was the catalyst that sort of like sort
Speaker 3: of broke that. It was a star that broke the
Speaker 3: camel's back. But it was three years of I'm in
Speaker 3: the wrong place, doing the wrong thing. I'm failing miserably
Speaker 3: but I'm here in Disneyland, where I'm supposed to be,
Speaker 3: where I said I wanted to be.
Speaker 4: So I sord you do.
Speaker 3: I I slit my wrists one night.
Speaker 4: What happened? And written about this?
Speaker 3: I haven't, I guess I should. I speak about it
Speaker 3: all the time, but maybe one day I'll write about it.
Speaker 3: Found you, I I I slipped my wrists and then
Speaker 3: realized what I had done and called the Sudent affairs
Speaker 3: director who I had become close with, and.
Speaker 4: Said, I helped me, and someone came and helped you.
Speaker 3: And they helped me, and they took me to a
Speaker 3: mental hospital. It's interesting this mental hospital still there, Gracie
Speaker 3: Square Hospital. It's next door to my ob gyn who
Speaker 3: delivered my six month old.
Speaker 4: That's what a circuit that is. So I almost didn't
Speaker 4: make it, and now I made it and I'm in this.
Speaker 3: I had to pass it, you know, every week to
Speaker 3: go to my obgyn appointment, I had to pass Gracie
Speaker 3: Square Hospital. And every time I passed it, there was
Speaker 3: a part of me just, you know, waddling down the
Speaker 3: street pregnant as can be. Some twenty nine years later,
Speaker 3: I would I would. I felt such relief and joy
Speaker 3: and you know, a sense of yes, I get the
Speaker 3: big picture.
Speaker 4: Now, what month in the school year was that that
Speaker 4: that happened.
Speaker 3: It was January or February.
Speaker 4: So it was at the midpoint.
Speaker 1: Let's say, and you take off office and you come
Speaker 1: back when you come back the following fall, you don't.
Speaker 3: I came back the following fall for a little bit,
Speaker 3: and then I got an opportunity to audition for something
Speaker 3: that ended up that I ended up being the secret
Speaker 3: Garden actually, and I asked the you know, administration office
Speaker 3: and my the dean, what I should do, and they said,
Speaker 3: you know, go do that. It's okay, take the time
Speaker 3: off to go do that. It seems like that's where
Speaker 3: you want to be.
Speaker 4: So and they probably didn't want to disappoint.
Speaker 3: You at that point.
Speaker 4: At that point they were like, sure, go go, you
Speaker 4: want to go sing on.
Speaker 3: Go go do it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we don't ever want to get your way.
Speaker 3: You know. The thing is there was actually a lot,
Speaker 3: not a lot, but they had a special arrangement with
Speaker 3: Gracie Square Hospital. There were a couple of other Juilliard
Speaker 3: students there that I had wondered what had happened to
Speaker 3: I was there. I was at the hospital for me,
Speaker 3: but Grace's Square, I thinks private hospital. I was there
Speaker 3: for a month. They evaluated me and said, you you're
Speaker 3: not going anytime soon.
Speaker 4: And did that change you?
Speaker 3: I was so heavily medicated. I was heavily medicated.
Speaker 1: When you say that, it's so compelling to me because
Speaker 1: when I see you, I think of you. I think
Speaker 1: of you like you know, you're so strong your personality
Speaker 1: and performance. I view you as a person that's going
Speaker 1: to go. I'm going back into the burning building to
Speaker 1: save the baby.
Speaker 3: Well that is me now, yeah, but I think maybe
Speaker 3: that experience helped make me that now. I mean, look,
Speaker 3: I'm still a mess. I mean everybody's a mess, always
Speaker 3: a mess, I you know, and I when I understood
Speaker 3: a lot going on, Yeah, and I realized, you know,
Speaker 3: I'm someone who suffers from depression. But I learned in
Speaker 3: the years a how to deal with it. B to
Speaker 3: find you know, find my joy and see to realize that,
Speaker 3: like alcoholism, it's something that you wake up every day
Speaker 3: and you say, yeah, that's still something that I have
Speaker 3: to deal with, as opposed to saying, oh, I'm just
Speaker 3: not depressed anymore. Just but to learn how to cope
Speaker 3: with that, and my art gives me a lot of
Speaker 3: joy and keeps me, keeps me strong.
Speaker 4: So what's the first job you do?
Speaker 1: This is a tired question, but I can't help back
Speaker 1: and ask you, especially with somebody like you, what's the
Speaker 1: first job when you do?
Speaker 4: When you sit there and go, I got this.
Speaker 3: I think I got this, like I'm over the.
Speaker 1: No no meaning you know that the sky is the
Speaker 1: limit for you. You're out there and you're doing it,
Speaker 1: and you're connecting to that material, you know, and you go,
Speaker 1: I think I really really have a shot at my
Speaker 1: dream coming true.
Speaker 2: Here.
Speaker 3: It was Sally Murphy and she was she was Julie Jordan,
Speaker 3: and I played Kerry Pippridge and it was the guy
Speaker 3: Michael Hayden was with Hayden, Yes, yes, yes, Nick Heitner
Speaker 3: at Lincoln Center, which is also crazy for me to
Speaker 3: then open, you know, in Carousel at Lincoln Center, where
Speaker 3: at Vivian Momont Theater where you can look up and
Speaker 3: I can see the school that I, you know, had
Speaker 3: a hard time in and and I remember standing in
Speaker 3: those in those windows at Juilliard looking at Vivian Beaumont,
Speaker 3: seeing Patty Lapone performing there and going why am I
Speaker 3: not doing that? And then how'd you feel like the
Speaker 3: luckiest survivor in the world. I mean, and I felt
Speaker 3: a sense of gratitude, a sense of relief, and a
Speaker 3: sense of Okay, I get it. I now get that
Speaker 3: I was on my path.
Speaker 1: Out the window of one place is your future. Out
Speaker 1: the window of Juilliard where you try to snuff yourself
Speaker 1: is the Vivian Beaumont where you're going to do.
Speaker 4: Carousel across the street. It's always a vista for you
Speaker 4: what might.
Speaker 1: Have been was, which was something not bad and wonderful? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean babies and Tony Awards and all that stuff.
Speaker 3: I think, I think what it realizes there's a bigger picture.
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, it's very easy to, you know,
Speaker 3: just get into tunnel vision, especially when you're young and
Speaker 3: you know it's only you that you're having to think about.
Speaker 3: And not that that's a bad thing, but it's just
Speaker 3: easy to get buried very quickly under emotion and fear
Speaker 3: and disappointment and all that. And I just think that
Speaker 3: I learned to have a bigger picture about life.
Speaker 1: We're taking a break, so stay with us. Once you
Speaker 1: become extraordinarily successful, in the busin You won your first
Speaker 1: Tony Award for what show?
Speaker 4: For Carousel? And you're how old?
Speaker 3: Twenty three?
Speaker 1: Your child and you when you you were fresh out
Speaker 1: of that situation, You weren't far that far removed from
Speaker 1: that situation.
Speaker 3: Was two and a half years away from that situation
Speaker 3: and a.
Speaker 1: Half years later, which is nothing. Yeah, you win a
Speaker 1: Tony Award and you've won six Tony Awards. Yes, you
Speaker 1: won the most Tony Awards of anybody. Are you tied
Speaker 1: with somebody you're tied with?
Speaker 3: No? Not with that.
Speaker 7: No.
Speaker 2: I love.
Speaker 4: I love when people sit there and they go, oh,
Speaker 4: I don't know. I don't keep track of that. I go, you, liar,
Speaker 4: you got all your Tonys lined up?
Speaker 3: They do.
Speaker 4: No, I'm not you. I'm saying, but people in general,
Speaker 4: I doubt you do. To actually, but to embarrass you
Speaker 4: even more than I already have.
Speaker 3: Oh good god.
Speaker 1: You are enormously talented and everything clicks, and you're very,
Speaker 1: very successful, and you're gorgeous woman. Well you're a gorgeous woman.
Speaker 1: And what did that do in terms of your career,
Speaker 1: meaning that you could have gone and made films and
Speaker 1: then a television series. Did you have a lot of
Speaker 1: offers you swept aside.
Speaker 3: No, I've never had those offers. I mean, I did
Speaker 3: one television series once where I played the best friend
Speaker 3: in Private Practice to the main character show Private Practice,
Speaker 3: Kate Walsh played Addison Montgomery and I played her best friend.
Speaker 4: Did you do that?
Speaker 3: I did it for five six years. The show ran
Speaker 3: for seven years, and I did it for five or
Speaker 3: six years. But no, Hollywood has never really banged down
Speaker 3: on my doors. And I think that's because you're very
Speaker 3: kind to say I'm gorgeous, but I don't think I'm
Speaker 3: the typical sort of look. I'm also a big girl,
Speaker 3: and I'm proud of that, and I'm fine with that.
Speaker 3: But you know, it's interesting when you go to Hollywood
Speaker 3: and you see these people on the movie screens your
Speaker 3: entire life, and then you see them in person and
Speaker 3: they're all like one fourth of them a taper airplay.
Speaker 4: What the hell didn't look well?
Speaker 3: Do you want a cheeseburger?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: No, no, no, I mean it's saying look terrible, but it's
Speaker 3: just for me. It's just like I, you know, I
Speaker 3: think size wise that has something to do with it,
Speaker 3: and I and I don't know that that's where I'm
Speaker 3: at my strongest right, you know, And I think.
Speaker 4: We work so hard to develop this perch you're in.
Speaker 1: Now, what's that like for you to have to go
Speaker 1: out and wring yourself out again?
Speaker 4: Process every night?
Speaker 3: Well, the process for me, I go really inside. I
Speaker 3: get really quiet. People around me think that I'm angry
Speaker 3: with them before I do a show because I just
Speaker 3: get very quiet and I go inside and stay still,
Speaker 3: and I'm not. I'm not one to kind of jump
Speaker 3: around and go visit other dressing rooms. I just I
Speaker 3: have to kind of go in and be super super
Speaker 3: super quiet and still because focus. Yeah, because in a minute,
Speaker 3: you're going to have to turn all of your insides out,
Speaker 3: and so if I'm giving all that out beforehand, I
Speaker 3: will have nothing to get.
Speaker 4: One of the hardest ones for you, Lady Day.
Speaker 3: Absolutely that was by myself on stage for an hour
Speaker 3: and forty five minutes, just having to give it and
Speaker 3: especially living that life that she led. I have to
Speaker 3: have to live that on stage every night. That I
Speaker 3: was no fun to be around before the show. After
Speaker 3: the show, I was a ball.
Speaker 4: Because that's very common.
Speaker 3: Yes, because I was thrilled it was over until the
Speaker 3: next you know, it's interesting. I know I can remember who. Oh,
Speaker 3: maybe it was Kathy Bates. I can't remember who said
Speaker 3: this to me, but I said, well, why don't you
Speaker 3: ever come back to Broadway or do a show on Broadway?
Speaker 3: And I think it was Kathy Bage. She said, oh, honey,
Speaker 3: oh that's hard. It's hard, and she's right, you know
Speaker 3: it is, because especially when you think, Okay, I've done it,
Speaker 3: I've given a good performance. I got through that. You know,
Speaker 3: when you're doing a film, you're like, great, it's in
Speaker 3: the can and now I'm off the cub or whatever,
Speaker 3: you know. But Broadway it's like, and now I have
Speaker 3: to do that again tomorrow night, and then the next
Speaker 3: night after that, the next and it's a blessing.
Speaker 4: At the end of every day.
Speaker 1: I gotta go to work exactly, you have that whole
Speaker 1: day and what happens in that in the world. The
Speaker 1: worst thing for me when I was acting was when
Speaker 1: I have a wonderful, fun day and then I had
Speaker 1: to go to work and wring myself out and some
Speaker 1: drive to go do the Scottish play.
Speaker 3: Yes, for me, it was always on Sunday matinee. When
Speaker 3: you're headed to your Sunday matinee. You're walking down ninth
Speaker 3: Abue and you're seeing everybody outside, either out of street
Speaker 3: fair or having wine and runch.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And I can't tell you how many I saw in
Speaker 3: the sun. I can't tell you how many times you're
Speaker 3: walking down ninth Aaber you just want to take your
Speaker 3: aunt and swipe all the food off of those sidewalk tables.
Speaker 3: It's like, that's not fair. No, of course not. I
Speaker 3: mean it's I'm doing what I wanted to do my
Speaker 3: entire life. But there is that.
Speaker 4: People are counting on you. Yes, amazing.
Speaker 1: When I did Street Car, I got really sick and
Speaker 1: I missed the show. I was out for it for
Speaker 1: a weekend, the two Saturdays and the Sunday, and I
Speaker 1: missed the show. But I go downstairs. I lived on
Speaker 1: Central Park West. I go downstairs. I cross over to
Speaker 1: Broadway an eighty sixth and Broadway on the northeast corner.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna cross over to William's Chicken, Yes, and get
Speaker 1: my soup.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: And I'm there and this little woman looks up to me.
Speaker 1: It's like seven o'clock at night. It's a it's a
Speaker 1: Friday night or a Saturday night. Rather and She.
Speaker 4: Looks up to me, this little owlish woman. She goes,
Speaker 4: aren't you supposed to be on Broadway right now? And
Speaker 4: I thought this town, flip and town.
Speaker 3: I have a story like that too. I mean, we
Speaker 3: were it was a New Year's Eve and Ethan Hawk
Speaker 3: had been able to we were doing Henry the Fourth
Speaker 3: at Lincoln Center, and he'd been able to get the
Speaker 3: entire cast invited to the plays and Players Club or
Speaker 3: a what's the club over on lads players Club? Yes,
Speaker 3: for New Year's Eve. So we're all there and we're
Speaker 3: all celebrating, and it's wonderful, but we're, you know, in
Speaker 3: and amongst you know, the actual members of this club.
Speaker 3: And it's New Year's Eve and I'm doing a play.
Speaker 3: And I was still young, and I thought, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: have a cigarette, you know, why not, I'm gonna have
Speaker 3: a cigarette. And I don't smoke as a rule, but
Speaker 3: I just decided it's New Year's Eve, I'm gonna have
Speaker 3: wine and cigarettes and it'll be fun. So I was
Speaker 3: smoking out on the little terrorists they have out there.
Speaker 3: I'm smoking my cigarette. I'm chatting with some of my
Speaker 3: cast members and an older woman who's a member of
Speaker 3: the plays Club. She comes up to me and she said,
Speaker 3: I'd say you're Audra McDonald, but it couldn't possibly be
Speaker 3: her because she wouldn't be smoking, never destroying her instrument.
Speaker 3: She wouldn't be smoking. And then she just sort of march, Now.
Speaker 4: Who are people who in your life? In your career?
Speaker 1: One might assume you've sung the song, sang the songs
Speaker 1: of pretty much everyone you want to sing. Where is
Speaker 1: there one that's gotten by you? Is there some composer
Speaker 1: whose music you want to sing that you haven't sang.
Speaker 3: No, I wouldn't say that. I mean there's always young compo.
Speaker 3: I am always championed the work of new, young musical
Speaker 3: theater composers, so I'm always looking for new work to do.
Speaker 3: There are certain songs that I stay away from because
Speaker 3: I don't feel that I can do them properly. For example,
Speaker 3: one that I have not been able to conquer that
Speaker 3: I have tried a couple of times and never done
Speaker 3: in public because I can't conquer it is Being Alive
Speaker 3: by Sondheim. I cannot. As much as that song moves
Speaker 3: me and as much as it means to me, every
Speaker 3: time I try and sing it, I fail. So I
Speaker 3: have not done it in public, and I won't until
Speaker 3: I figure it out. And that is that strange?
Speaker 1: It is No, No, I mean, I'm sure there's people.
Speaker 1: It's like in plays. I mean, I'm trying to roles.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to think of. Right.
Speaker 3: Do you have writers whose work you steer clear of
Speaker 3: as a performer because you don't you don't get it,
Speaker 3: so you don't know how to bring it to life.
Speaker 3: Not that you don't enjoy watching.
Speaker 1: I might enjoy watching, you know, whatever. I want to
Speaker 1: have in the theater. Life itself is so filled with
Speaker 1: oddities now and surreal crap going on with the government
Speaker 1: and everything. I want to see something which is really
Speaker 1: I want some honesty. No, I need to have a
Speaker 1: like oxygen. I need a big hit of honesty.
Speaker 3: I you know, that's interesting. I was listening to a
Speaker 3: performer on the way down here who i'd absolutely admire,
Speaker 3: whose work I admire, and they were singing a song
Speaker 3: that didn't, in my mind, seem quite right for them.
Speaker 3: Not that they weren't singing it beautifully, but I thought,
Speaker 3: I don't think they believe this. I don't. I think
Speaker 3: they're trying something and they don't believe it, and there's
Speaker 3: a part of me that thought, why am I thinking
Speaker 3: that about them? I do that stuff all the time.
Speaker 3: But I think you're right. There is something going on
Speaker 3: right now in the zeitgeist that's sort of like everybody
Speaker 3: is needing truth and needing needing something to ground them
Speaker 3: and where is reality?
Speaker 4: Any sat tire?
Speaker 1: And my last question for you is, well, first of all,
Speaker 1: describe for me, if you would, as I try to,
Speaker 1: always think about people in your profession and who do
Speaker 1: what you do as well as you do a moment
Speaker 1: when you're on stage and you used to go out
Speaker 1: there at night and you'd sing a song and you
Speaker 1: knew you were going to kill these people, you know,
Speaker 1: the minute that you sang that song, the way you
Speaker 1: said that you could almost feel the people just getting
Speaker 1: destroyed by that song.
Speaker 4: Is that in a Lady Day as well?
Speaker 3: Well? I think in the beginning with Lady Day, because
Speaker 3: I think no one thought that I could find her voice,
Speaker 3: you know, because I'm a soprano. So it's like, what
Speaker 3: are you doing with's the soprano doing Lady Day? You know,
Speaker 3: trying to be Billie Holiday. She doesn't have it in
Speaker 3: her And I didn't think I had it in me.
Speaker 3: And so some nights, you know, the show opens and
Speaker 3: the first thing I do is sing before I even
Speaker 3: start speaking, and so the audience and you can tell
Speaker 3: that the audience is waiting to hear is she going
Speaker 3: to get it? And on nights that I really felt
Speaker 3: that I was really lined up, really lined up with Billy.
Speaker 3: I had I had enough, you know, of her perfume on,
Speaker 3: and I had the makeup right, and I had the
Speaker 3: gin behind my ears so I could smell like what
Speaker 3: she must have smelled like in those days. And I
Speaker 3: would open my mouth and sing the first all I
Speaker 3: know is I'm in love with you, and you'd hear
Speaker 3: sometimes i'd hear the audience gasp, and that's when I'd
Speaker 3: be like, Okay, I got that right now. Sustain it
Speaker 3: for the next hour and forty five minutes, you know,
Speaker 3: and I'd feel that. I'd think, Okay, they're they're taking
Speaker 3: the journey with me. And there were nights where that
Speaker 3: wouldn't happen. I'd think, Okay, I got a drag them
Speaker 3: on this journey too, you know. But every once in
Speaker 3: a while there'd be that moment of and every once
Speaker 3: in a while to hear people go, oh my god,
Speaker 3: ah and know is I'm in low.
Speaker 7: Ye in there you said that we are through. I
Speaker 7: know that that should know a yes, care go I
Speaker 7: wonder where Allah has gone.
Speaker 1: The final line of a review from The Evening Standard
Speaker 1: for her recent West End debut as Billie Holiday doubles
Speaker 1: as a review of Audra herself. Quote, yet still she
Speaker 1: stands broken but indomitable to the last unquote. I'm Alec Baldwin.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing.
Speaker 4: Is brought to you by iHeart Radio.