1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Cable news is ripping us apart, dividing the nation, making 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: it impossible to function as a society and to know 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: what is true and what is false. The good news 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: is that they're failing and they know it. That is 5 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: why we're building something new. Be part of creating a new, better, healthier, 6 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: and more trustworthy mainstream by becoming a Breaking Points Premium 7 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: member today at breakingpoints dot com. Your hard earned money 8 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: is going to help us build for the midterms and 9 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: the upcoming presidential election so we can provide unparalleled coverage 10 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: of what is sure to be one of the most 11 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: pivotal moments in American history. So what are you waiting for? 12 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: Go to Breakingpoints dot com to help us out. Good morning, everybody, 13 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: Happy Monday. We have an amazing show for everybody today. 14 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: What do we have personal? We do lots of big 15 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,040 Speaker 1: stories that I'm very excited to talk about, namely the 16 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: Amazon first warehouse voting to join a union, historic moment. 17 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: I have about a million things I want to say 18 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,199 Speaker 1: about this, So we'll dig into everything we've learned about 19 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: how exactly they were able to pull this off, and 20 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 1: a little bit of the media reaction, which is always 21 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: an interesting part of three. Also some terrible breaking news 22 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: in Ukraine about the situation there on the ground, and 23 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 1: we'll get into that. We'll also talk about the economic 24 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: situation as best we can tell in Russia. News signs 25 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:30,279 Speaker 1: that sadly, as we predicted, these sanctions that we have levied, 26 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: the economic warfare that we are conducting against Russia is 27 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: completely backfiring. I mean, that's just pretty much may not 28 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: be as people thought, It may not be working as 29 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,199 Speaker 1: well as people thought, and it seems to be having 30 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: the effect of bolstering Russian public opinion in favor of 31 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: Putin and in favor of this war, so exactly the 32 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: opposite of the outcome that you would actually want. But 33 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: we'll dig into those details. Also, a new study that's 34 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: kind of good and bad. It reveals that cable news 35 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: sadly really does impact the way that people think about 36 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: the world and think about politics. The good side of 37 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: that is that it also indicates that people's minds can 38 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: be changed. So that's hopeful because if you change their 39 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: information diet, you can create a better political landscape. So 40 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: we'll talk about that. Also, it looks like Jen Saki 41 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: has a new job coming up here Lo and behold, 42 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 1: she's going to MSNBC saga. Yes, and it is pretty 43 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,959 Speaker 1: extraordinary for someone who is still the White House Press 44 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:29,399 Speaker 1: Secretary to be conducting these type of negotiations. It's so extraordinary, 45 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: actually that even the White House Press Corps was repeatedly 46 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: pressing on her on it, including one of the people 47 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: at NBC, Kristen Welker, who would be her colleague. If 48 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: these reports are indeed true, we have on here Christian 49 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: Smalls might be joining us. Not one hundred percent sure 50 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: about that, so we had a tenet of confirmation. He's 51 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: a basically been extraordinarily busy, so we'll see if we'll 52 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: get him. If not, We've got another piece of the 53 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: Amazon story that we want to tell you about, another 54 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: media reaction from one of his appearances on MSMB. But 55 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: let us start with the news out of Staten Island 56 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: and Amazon. As you all probably already know, a warehouse 57 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: on Staten Island it's called JFK eight has now officially 58 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: become the very first Amazon warehouse to vote to unionize. 59 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: It was not particularly close. This was extraordinary and historic 60 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: in all kinds of ways, not only because it's the first, 61 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: but also because Amazon is such a behemoth, because they 62 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: really set the conditions for labor across the country, because 63 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: they spent millions of dollars to keep this from happening anywhere, 64 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: and also because these workers decided to go a completely 65 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: different path. They didn't join up with an existing union. 66 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: Christian Smalls and his colleagues and Derek Palmer, his best 67 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,119 Speaker 1: friend who's the vice president there, who still works at Amazon, 68 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: they decided that they were going to start a brand 69 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: new worker led union called the Amazon Labor Union, and 70 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: that they were going to start from scratch and organize 71 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: this warehouse and hold that effort. And that strategy has 72 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: succeeded where no one else has been able to. Let's 73 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: take a listen to a little bit of the man 74 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: himself upon his victory damn two years ago. My life 75 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: changed forever. And you know, all you wanted to do 76 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: the right thing and speak up for the workers behind me. 77 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: Jason is one of whom, Derek, Jordan Gerald, everybody and JFK. 78 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 1: You know, when COVID nineteen came to play, Amazon failed us. 79 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: They dropped the ball. They lied to the public saying 80 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: they're doing all these things. None of that was the 81 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: reality of our situation. So I let them walk out 82 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 1: after they quarantine, just me and nobody else, and that 83 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: walk out led to my firing. Then a week after that, 84 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks after maybe a week or two, 85 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: that memo that came out calling me not smart or articulate. Ironically, 86 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: they also said to make me the face. It a 87 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: whole unionizing efforts, which I had no intention at the time. Now, 88 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: you guys probably all know the story that he's referring 89 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: to there, But we've been interviewing Christian since he was 90 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: fired from Amazon on and off for two years, yes, 91 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: for almost exactly two years ago. Was our first interview 92 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: with him, and he said in that interview, I may 93 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: have started a revolution, which is kind of incredible clearly 94 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: if that was exactly what was going on. But so, 95 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: he was very distressed over the lack of COVID safety procedures. 96 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 1: He was witnessing his colleagues getting sick, they weren't getting 97 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: any information, they didn't have adequate ppe within the warehouse, 98 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: and so he led what was actually very small walk 99 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: down at the time. I think we may have even 100 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: covered it here. Amazon retaliates against him, fires him, and 101 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: then as if that wasn't bad enough. One of their 102 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: top executives, and a memo that went out to all 103 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: of the leadership up to and including Jeff Bezos says, hey, 104 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: you know what we should do. We should make this guy, 105 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: Christian Smalls the face of the Amazon union movement because 106 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: he's quote not smart or articulate. That lights the fire 107 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: under Christian and ultimately we see what the results are today. 108 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: We're learning more and more about exactly how they pulled 109 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: off this extraordinary victory. There have been a number of 110 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: good pieces that have looked at the tactics they've used, 111 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: the people that were involved, why this effort succeeded when 112 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 1: others failed, and also some of the backlash to Amazon's aggressive, 113 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: over the top tactics was really did backfire. Let's go 114 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: ahead and put this Jacobin piece up on the screen. 115 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: This is an interview with one of the worker organizers, 116 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: a woman named Angelica Maldonado, and a few things that 117 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: jumped down at me here. And this, by the way, 118 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: is from our friend Eric Blanc, who we've interviewed as well, 119 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: who's a great labor reporter. So a couple of things 120 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: that jumped out at me here is she talked a 121 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: lot about how they went about bridging generational divides, racial divides, 122 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,239 Speaker 1: ethnic divides, length which divides. You have a very diverse 123 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 1: workforce that they had to be able to communicate with 124 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: and be able to win over people's trust. She talks 125 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: about the fact that the younger workers were easier to 126 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: sway than the older workers, and you know, that makes 127 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: a lot of sense in terms of if you look 128 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: at our political landscape, younger voters tend to be more 129 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: in favor of unions, more on the left politically, older 130 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: voters tend to be, you know, more sort of on 131 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: the right and have more traditional economic views, So that 132 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: made sense. But she also talked about how they organized 133 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: across racial lines. She said that was another thing, reaching 134 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: out to the diverse races. At JFK eight, for instance, 135 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: a lot of our coworkers are African. During the campaign, 136 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: I had an idea which ended up turning out great. 137 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: My neighbor she's also African, and she caters. So I said, 138 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: we've getten out so much food, why don't we give 139 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: out food that targets the culture of the workers at Amazon. 140 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: So one day I asked my neighbor to make us 141 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: some African fried rice, and that really attracted a whole 142 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: bunch of African workers towards us, and we gained a 143 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: couple of new organizers off that. I would say having 144 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: organizers of the same race was also crucial. I'm Hispanic 145 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: half Hispanic myself, but I don't speak Spanish, so it 146 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: was easier for one of our organizers who speak Spanish 147 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: to speak to those Hispanic workers who had questions. Another 148 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: thing she talks about, and this really jumped down at me, 149 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: is you know, part of what Amazon has used successfully 150 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: in the past saga is this climate of fear yes 151 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: or people feel like, ah, I can't stand out up 152 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: to these people, I can't possibly join a union, I'm 153 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: going to get fired. My life is going to be ruined. 154 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: And so they took what they described as intentional, calculated 155 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: risks to demonstrate that they could stand up for themselves, 156 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: that they shouldn't be afraid of Amazon. What she says 157 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: is they would go into these union busting captive audience 158 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: meetings knowing they were going to get kicked out because 159 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: they weren't invited. And she said, though we did get 160 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: kicked down eventually, action like that showed them that there 161 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: are certain rights and certain laws that protect us and 162 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: that we should not be scared of Amazon, And of 163 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: course Sagar Christian Smalls is the perfect example of that, 164 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: because they did the absolute worst they possibly could to 165 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: that guy, and here he is, still unafraid, still fighting, 166 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: and still pushing for it. It was an ultimate smear 167 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: campaign that backfired obviously tremendously, and I think that that's 168 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 1: what we saw at the heart of this at the beginning, 169 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: when they said he's not smart, he's not very articulate. 170 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: It ended up resulting in the resignation of a top 171 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: Amazon executive at the time, and ultimately, you know, they 172 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: awoke a sleeping giant. It's funny because watching the New 173 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: York Times and the traditional media kind of catch up 174 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,199 Speaker 1: to a story which we've been doing for so long 175 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: kind of is interesting to see how exactly they interpret 176 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: the lens. Let's put this up there on the screen. 177 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: The New York Times profiled Christian and they talk about 178 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: there how two best friends beat Amazon, specifically talking about 179 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: the original firing, about how Christian decided in order to 180 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: start a union from scratch rather than start with a 181 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: another established union, and how really, I mean, what he's 182 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: accomplished is one of the most extraordinary feats in the 183 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: history of the modern labor movement. I don't really think 184 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: there is another way to describe it. We watched what 185 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: happened in Bessemer, Alabama. We watched also the Teamsters unions. 186 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: Many of told Christian he was making a huge mistake. 187 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: I remember, I think we interviewed him or what six 188 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: months ago exactly on this, and he's like, well, a 189 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: lot of people didn't want us to do this, but 190 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: we decided to start it from scratch because we wanted 191 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: to be our own and of course everybody said that 192 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: wasn't going to work. Lack of institutional connection and what 193 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: they point to on the most significant part is his 194 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: low budget and then just focusing relentlessly on traditional and 195 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: important organizing tactics like you point to in the Jacobin 196 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: Peace culminates then in the actual victory that we see 197 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,719 Speaker 1: for him himself. And I think that that's what's fascinating 198 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: is that now with the media attention on him, they 199 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: are now unable Amazon is in order to paint him 200 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: as you know, not smart or articulate, and they are 201 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: going to throw everything at the wall in order to 202 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: make sure that this union never sticks, that they have 203 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: no bargaining power, and I'm really curious to see how 204 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: they begin targeting Christian himself. Yes, because that is going 205 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: to happen. But you know, the fact of the matter 206 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: is the way they they targeted him this far, it 207 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: only played into his hands because this is a man 208 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: who worked at this warehouse, who had relationships there, and 209 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: so when they fired him, when they smeared him as 210 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: not smarter articulate, when they had him arrested for bringing 211 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: food into the warehouse to serve these workers, and by 212 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: the way, they had gotten an order from the NLRB, 213 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: And this was really critical saying that organizers could you know, 214 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: talk about unions and organize on within the Amazon warehouses. 215 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 1: That mattered a lot. There's a few other things from 216 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: this New York Times piece that are really interesting, which 217 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: lays on not just the smart strategy of Christian and 218 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: Derek Palmer and the other worker organizers, but also some 219 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,199 Speaker 1: of the big missteps that Amazon made because, as Jodi 220 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: Kanter put it, the reporter on that story, while Amazon 221 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: deployed an incident commander, the workers deployed bake CD. So 222 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: they were there, they were organizing at a bus stop 223 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: that all the workers came to that, you know, funneling 224 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: into and out of work. They were serving food. They 225 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: were hyper local, hyper like, culturally competent with all the 226 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: different diverse constituencies in this warehouse. And so when Amazon 227 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: would say, oh, he's not smarter, articulate, or get people arrested, 228 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: this just made them look extremely heavy handed and ultimately 229 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: really backfired. Think about the odds here. Christian said that 230 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: they spent about one hundred and twenty thousand dollars overall 231 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 1: in this effort. Let me tell you that is peanuts 232 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: compared to what normally goes into these things. He says, 233 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: we started this with nothing, with two tables, two chairs 234 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: in a tent. Amazon spent more than four point three 235 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: million just on anti union consultants nationwide last year, just 236 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: last year. And that's just scratching the surface of how 237 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 1: much they spent to try to destroy this. There was 238 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: one other incident they say here that was a big 239 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: Amazon mistake. Reportedly one of their anti union consultants called 240 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: the labor organizers who are most black thugs, and that 241 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: also backfired and you know, made the and this has 242 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 1: been reported to the NLRB too, made the workers feel 243 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: like they were discriminatory against these organizers. All of this 244 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 1: led to a situation where they quote a worker there, 245 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: a woman named Kathleen Lejews who's forty one, who said 246 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:20,959 Speaker 1: she's not a big union fan, but she voted through 247 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: the union to send a message to the company because 248 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: she said, quote, the humanity at Amazon is gone. I 249 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: think that says it all there, that they were able 250 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: to win over even people who were skeptical because they 251 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: were so relentlessly hyper local and culturally competent and you know, friendly, 252 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: warm faces, extremely hopeful while Amazon is coming over the 253 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: top with a gigantic hammer. There's one other thing I 254 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: want to mention from this New York Times article, which 255 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: is they mentioned in passing Sager that there were some 256 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 1: labor sympathizers who went to work at the warehouse just 257 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: to try to help with this effort. And they quote 258 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: one woman in particular, Medina, And it turns out she 259 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 1: was the president of the Queen's DSA chapter. So I 260 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 1: want to know more about that, about how many DSA 261 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 1: members went and took jobs at this warehouse and other 262 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: places to try to be helpful in the organizing effort. 263 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: Because even though the numbers I'm sure are relatively small, 264 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: just having a few more people who you know, can 265 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: do the communication and organize on breaks and all of that, 266 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: that really makes a difference. Yeah, that's an interesting point. 267 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: I do want to know more about that too, because 268 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: now was the real question, Well, we have upcoming? How 269 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: many votes do we have upcoming in Amazon? In terms 270 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: of the New York area, we have one more warehouse 271 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: that is scheduled to vote. I think that voting starts 272 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: April twenty third, so that is coming right now. So 273 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: the point here is how much of this was one 274 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: off and how much of it can be scaled? And 275 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: that's actually, I mean, that's the ultimate question when it 276 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: comes to all of these things, which is that at 277 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: this point it was a victory. Can it then be 278 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: transported kind of a unionization effort in a box and 279 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: then export into different ways, our houses and sweep the country. Now, 280 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: we saw that happen with Starbucks, and we know that 281 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: it's happening quite well. Starbucks, though, has a very very 282 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: different workforce. We've talked about here a lot. Starbucks is 283 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: a much more educated workforce. These are people who are 284 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: disportionately younger, probably also disproportionately a lot more liberal, and 285 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: I don't mean that in terms of a disparaging way, 286 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: just much more likely probably have been actively involved in 287 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: like a Bernie Sanders type campaign, where an Amazon worker 288 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: is really going to run the gamut in terms of 289 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: both political beliefs, socioeconomic and possibly just politically disconnected, most 290 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: likely to fall into a non voter category. So how 291 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: do you get and talks about because when you're working 292 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: at Amazon, they just take over your whole damn life. 293 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: Of course, I mean, what are you supposed to do? 294 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: We talk about this all the time. The people feel 295 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: shame whenever they're like, I don't you know, they kind 296 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: of say it under their breath. You know, I know 297 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: I'm supposed to care, but I don't care about politics. 298 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: It's like, listen, you're trying to pay your bills. You're 299 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: working paycheck to paycheck. Gas is four fifty a gallen, 300 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: your rent is out of control, heating bills, and you're 301 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: worried about your kids, you know, medical expense or they 302 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 1: got pulled out of school. Who can blame you? We 303 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: have way bigger problems. So union is unionizing that workforce 304 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: and in a scalable way is going to be the 305 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: single biggest obstacle. And also, I mean this is probably 306 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: a good segue to the next part of this, but 307 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: it's not like Amazon is going to just let this happen. 308 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: They are throwing everything at this. Absolutely we have no 309 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: idea what they're about to throw at us. Let's put 310 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: this last piece for part one up on the screen. 311 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: A four. This is a great profile actually before the vote. 312 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: I want to give credit to the city for interviewing 313 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: Christian Smalls and Derek Palmer before the vote happened here, 314 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: and this piece gets into a lot of the generational 315 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: approach here. You know, Derek and Chris are both thirty 316 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: three years old, so they are young. I think that 317 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: makes the young millennials not gen Z right, and then yeah, 318 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: for sure. And then they're also organizing a lot of 319 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: zoomers using TikTok and you know, just being sort of 320 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: like of that generation and really comfortable and so that 321 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: was a big part of the appeal. So there was 322 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: a lot going on here. I mean think if you 323 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: added all together, they had a really smart approach. They 324 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: went down to Bessemer and what they took away was 325 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: that the organizers who had come in felt like outsiders, 326 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: and they said, you know, we're going to do this 327 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: a different way. We're going to be hyper local. We're 328 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 1: going to be hyper you know, engaged with the Amazon 329 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 1: work and really understand what their day to day is like. 330 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 1: That clearly was a smart strategy. You had Amazon overreach 331 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 1: and you know, frankly, I don't know if Amazon took 332 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: them that seriously because a lot of the country, the 333 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: media is certainly in political class, didn't take them seriously 334 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 1: at all. So you know, you have a national landscape 335 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: also that is wildly different than it was just a 336 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: short time ago, where there are lots of jobs, but 337 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: the question is are they good jobs? And so workers 338 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: feel a little bit more empowered to take this kind 339 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: of risk. And then it's no accident that the Starbucks 340 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: movement and the Amazon movement starts in New York. New 341 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 1: York is the state that has the largest union density, 342 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: so you have a culture of unionization. Christian's mom and Angelica, 343 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 1: Angelica the other organizer I mentioned, both of their moms 344 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: were members of SEIU eleven ninety nine, so they have, 345 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: you know, union membership in their blood. They understand what 346 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: it's all about intuitively, you have that culture around you, 347 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 1: and then you have you know, helpful members from DSA 348 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: also that's part of the culture there in that area, 349 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: all of that coming together in kind of a perfect 350 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: storm and pulling up off what we all thought may 351 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: well have been impossible. So it's an extraordinary story. Obviously, 352 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 1: I'm extremely excited about it. I think it's fascinating to 353 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: dig into all these facets. And before we move on 354 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: to the next part, the other thing I want to 355 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: say is they do have another vote coming up this month, 356 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: and so if you guys are able to contribute to 357 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: their solidarity fund. You know they did this with peanuts, 358 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: but they're going to need some resources. Train going Link's 359 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: going to be down there in description. Make sure you 360 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: guys can help. Yeah, all right, So let's transition to 361 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: then what is coming up, because we know Amazon is 362 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: going to pull out every dirty trick in the book 363 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,239 Speaker 1: to try to reverse these results, to try to make 364 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 1: sure that these workers never actually win a contract, to 365 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 1: make sure that this is the one and only warehouse 366 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: that ever unionizes in the entire country. So let's put 367 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: up Amazon's little response here. They're kind of going full 368 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 1: stop the steel Sager. This is the commentary. They say, 369 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 1: Amazon getting about as close as it can to claiming 370 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: the union election was rigged. Let's put their statement up 371 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: on the screen here. They say, I'm gonna read this 372 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: in full, guys, so I'll leave this up for a minute. 373 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 1: They say, we're disappointed with the outcome of the election 374 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: in Staten Island. I'm sure you are, because we believe 375 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 1: having a direct relationship with the company is best for 376 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: our employees. We're evaluating our options, including filing objections based 377 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: on the and this is the key part, based on 378 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 1: the quote inappropriate and undue influence by the NLRB that 379 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: we and others, including the National Retail Federation and US 380 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: Chamber of Commerce witness in this election. First of all, 381 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: those are two groups that are consultants for Amazon, So 382 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: these aren't like separate, independent entities, and they're also extremely 383 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: anti union. But when you're talking about when you're alleging 384 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: that the NLRB basically rigged this process, that's the governing 385 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 1: body that oversees these elections. So that's setting up a 386 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: potential court challenge and possibly signaling that they are going 387 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: to go to the mat to try to ultimately reverse 388 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: these results. So this is pretty wild that this is 389 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: what they're putting out in their statement. It's very characteristic 390 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: of Amazon. I mean, I've read a lot about Amazon, 391 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: the history of Amazon. Something that Bezos baked into the 392 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: DNA was taking on regulatory any regulatory capture or industry 393 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: relentlessly in terms of using Amazon's lawyers. So at the 394 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: previous times in the nineteen nineties up until the early 395 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: two thousands, Bezos would use his entire legal infrastructure to 396 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 1: challenge on sales tax. They do not want to collect 397 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: online sales tax. All of that. They went so far 398 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,479 Speaker 1: as to set up separate entities in states where they 399 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: did collect and require online sales tax and did not 400 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 1: allow them to use Amazon dot com emails and any 401 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: other other stuff. I'm just trying to show people that 402 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: within the DNA of Amazon dot Com is the complete 403 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: declaration of war against any regulatory impetus. On top of it, 404 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: and when you're a scrappy little startup selling books in 405 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,719 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight, I get it. Whenever you're the second 406 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: largest company on planet Earth in terms of especially in 407 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: terms of employment in America, I mean, that's a little 408 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: bit of a different story, and I think that that 409 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 1: is why they're going to do this. I've noticed this 410 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: with Bezos period. What he does is he uses the 411 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: court system and his political connections in order to try 412 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: and rig the game in his favor. He's doing that 413 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 1: right now with Blue Origin in his spaceship. Don't worry 414 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: that is actually still alive. And unfortunately, that's very likely 415 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: to be the tactic here because one of the things 416 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: that we've pointed to is that sure the NLRB in 417 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: this case is going to be a lot more friendly 418 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: to Amazon, but they can mire this thing in legal 419 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: fees and in the courts for years to come, leaving 420 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: things up in the air, demoralizing the current effort at 421 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: the unions, and also showing the workforce so like, yeah, 422 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: you can vote, doesn't matter. We will destroy yes, and 423 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: we have. There is high turnover at these warehouses point, 424 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: by the way, partly by design by Amazon. I mean 425 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: they chew these workers up and they spit them out 426 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: as fast as they possibly can. There's a couple of 427 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: things that are in the workers favor because one thing 428 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: that we talked about on the show or is winning 429 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: the vote is just the first step in battle. They 430 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: have a long road ahead of them before they actually 431 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,719 Speaker 1: get a contract. Amazon laboring to put on a statement 432 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: demanding that Amazon, you know, negotiate with them and start 433 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: collective bargaining in early May. You know, I wouldn't hold 434 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: your breath on that one. And in fact, what we 435 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,919 Speaker 1: often see is that corporations they don't have any legal 436 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: requirement to really negotiate in good faith, so they drag 437 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: their feet, They pretend like they're negotiating, but they continually 438 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 1: put poison pills into the contract so that you can 439 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: never actually reach a contract agreement. So that's the next 440 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: big fight for these workers that we're going to have 441 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 1: to pay really close attention to. That and any sort 442 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: of legal challenges that Amazon fi files about. You know 443 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: how this election ultimately unfolded a couple things that are 444 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: going in their favor. Number One, we did learn that 445 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: according to Amazon Labor Union, I think it was S. 446 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: Derek Palmer who put this out, there are eighteen other 447 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: Amazon facilities across the country that have reached out to 448 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: them that want to organize it. So very much sounds 449 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,959 Speaker 1: like you know what happened with Starbucks, where Buffalo just 450 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: lit a fire across the country and then you had 451 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 1: all these workers seeing that example and saying, oh my god, 452 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 1: like if they can do it, we can do it too. 453 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: We could pull this off. Let's go guys. So that 454 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 1: I think is really important because I think the key 455 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: strategy here has to be to strike while the iron 456 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: is hot and to try to organize as many of 457 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: these places as quickly as possible. The other tactic that 458 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 1: companies often will use is they will close shut of 459 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 1: the shop. So we saw this. I think it was 460 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,959 Speaker 1: Dollar General in Missouri. A lot of companies will do this, 461 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,159 Speaker 1: and this is why workers are afraid to unionize, is 462 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 1: the company will just say, all right, fine, we're just 463 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: going to close this place down, so it's not profitable anymore, 464 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: even though it's been profitable for twenty five years. Exactly. Well, Amazon, 465 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,959 Speaker 1: they don't really have that luxury of doing that in 466 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 1: New York City. If anything, they need more workers and 467 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: they need more infrastructure in this region. You don't really 468 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 1: have the you know, wiggle room to just close down. 469 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: This is a gigantic facility, eight thousand workers and a 470 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: key part of their distributions network in New York City 471 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: and the surrounding areas. So that makes it a lot 472 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: harder for them to just say, forget it, we're going 473 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: to write this one off and we're going to go 474 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,679 Speaker 1: somewhere else. Yeah, So at least that gives, you know, 475 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: the workers a little bit of leverage here. I think 476 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: that's right. And it's also just the irony of Amazon 477 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: accusing the NLRB of rigging the election when the NLRB 478 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 1: found that Amazon actually exerted undue influence on the Bestsemmer 479 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: Alabama election, resulting in a new election having to be held. 480 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: That's really what this is all about. But it also 481 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: goes to show you about the immense power of the 482 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: National Retail the Yeah, the NRF and then also the 483 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: US Chamber of Commerce, both of those organizations here in Washington. 484 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: They have two of the nicest buildings in the city. 485 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 1: I'll put it that way. I think number one and 486 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,199 Speaker 1: number two in terms of telling yeah oh yeah. In 487 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: terms of the lobbying power that these people is immense, 488 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: and they are going to have to exert their influence 489 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 1: both on the NLRB to try and rig some of 490 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: the future findings about how this is gonna happen. They're 491 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: going to try and miire it within red tape and 492 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: really what you're seeing is that they are just showing 493 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: you that they will declare all out legal warfare on 494 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,199 Speaker 1: all of these elections in the future to discourage it. 495 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: But the counter to that is that with the success 496 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,919 Speaker 1: of the smallest effort and if you can get especially 497 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: if we get one more store, because that's kind of 498 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: how Starbucks started. Once they got two, it was like, okay, 499 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: this is a thing, because they do became six and 500 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 1: then six became like eighteen. I think that that is 501 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: very likely if they can get the second one in 502 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 1: order to unionize, then it will spread. But of course 503 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 1: you know the real test too. It failed in Bessemer 504 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: for a reason. You know, in New York, as you 505 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: were saying high union density, you have people there with 506 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,640 Speaker 1: a lot more familiar They don't have as much. It's 507 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: more of a sticky thing in terms of the warehouse. 508 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: They know that Amacon can't just pull the plug on JFK, Like, 509 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: what are you going to do? Not deliver to Amazon, 510 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: I mean to New York City? Like you're going to 511 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 1: do it? So here's the question. Can it work in 512 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: Kansas City? Can it work in Nebraska? Coming it work 513 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 1: in Ohio? Can it work in Texas. I mean, these 514 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: are all areas where that's going to be the true test. 515 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: That's the big question, because in Starbucks the answer was yes. 516 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: I mean, now we've had Starbucks kind of across the 517 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: country that have voted to unionize, including places like Tennessee 518 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 1: and you know, places that don't have that strong union culture. 519 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 1: But Starbucks is obviously very different. I mean, we're talking 520 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,360 Speaker 1: about very small workforces versus thousands of workers. I do 521 00:26:54,440 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: think the new Redo election results in Bessemer are actually 522 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: cause for encouragement because right now where things stand, the 523 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: union is roughly one hundred votes down in the new 524 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: count First of all, that is way better than they 525 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: did the first time around, when they lost something like 526 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: two thirds to one third. Shows you that Number one, 527 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 1: the union just had more time to organize. The last 528 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: one was done really in a rush and really in 529 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: a hurry, so they probably had more time to build 530 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: those local ties and have local worker organizers who had 531 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: those relationships and were able to be more effective. Number two, 532 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,959 Speaker 1: which shows you the national landscape is very, very different. 533 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,679 Speaker 1: And by the way, there's over four hundred ballots that 534 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 1: have been challenged in that Bessemer election, so that one 535 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: is not over yet. Even though the union is down 536 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: in the count right now, there still is a glimmer 537 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 1: of hope that once all of the challenges have been 538 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: sorted through and resolved, that they could potentially I think 539 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: it's still long shot, but could potentially end up on top. 540 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: The very fact that it shifted so significantly that it 541 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: could even be close this time around shows you what 542 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: an extraordinarily different landscape this is now and how workers 543 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: are feeling a lot older about, you know, about taking 544 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: matters into their own hands. Yeah, that's really well said. 545 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 1: And on top of this also is the media. What 546 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: is going on exactly with the media. So we've got 547 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,120 Speaker 1: to look over to our friends over on the CNBC network, 548 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: Jim Kramer, the mind of business and the voice of 549 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: Wall Street. What is his reaction to all of these 550 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: union efforts. Let's take a listen. L Well, we know 551 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: that the union work rules are what everything is about. 552 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: It is the same case with Starbucks too. If you 553 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 1: can't tell your employees when they work, then you're really 554 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: not able to have much of an ability to be 555 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: able to move product or move coffee. And I think 556 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: that people the unions will be in charge of time 557 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: that you need to work, and that would be dreadful, 558 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: for very dreadful Fanny Jazz. And that's just a US picture, right, Yeah, 559 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: they got Europe to think about as well. You know, look, 560 00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: one of the problems was, you know, Starbucks does indeed 561 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: have unionized places in the ones the franchise. But if 562 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: you can't control the work rules, no one wants to 563 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,719 Speaker 1: work certain shifts. So you can just say, listen, I'm 564 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: not going to work that shift, and Amazon would not 565 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: be able to say, yes, you must work it. So 566 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: that's what it's stakes with union is time that you 567 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: have to work. Our Thanks to d we're going to 568 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: watch developments in New York World in Alabama, I imaginate, well, 569 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: because she's doing amazing work. This is a very important 570 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: story because the reason why one of the reasons why 571 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: Amazon works so well is because people work when Amazon 572 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: says you must work. Yeah, how's the game there, isn't he? Yeah, 573 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: of course it is. And look, you know this is 574 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: a guy who doesn't here's accusing people of wanting to 575 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: have probably exactly what he has. Nobody tells him when 576 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: to work. He gets to choose his own hours, probably 577 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: only works a couple of hours a day in terms 578 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: of whever he's on the television, and then the rest 579 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: is like comfy research in an office. I just find 580 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: this maddening in terms of the way that they're reacting 581 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: to this. The imagine that your boss does not one 582 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: hundred percent rule your life. Is that really the objection 583 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: that we're having here. Also, it's not like people also 584 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: Starbucks can incentivize people wanting to work terrible shifts by 585 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: paying them more money. You actually easily could do that. 586 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: You can incentivize your workers. And it's also not like 587 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: these people are demanding not to work. They're demanding to 588 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: have some say over the conditions of their work. Everybody. 589 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: These people are such hard workers. I mean, anybody go 590 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: and watch a video of what it's actually like to 591 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: work in an Amazon warehouse. Most white collar folks, you 592 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: would not last a single day in terms of the 593 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: amount of weight they have to carry, the steps that 594 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: they have to take, the health effects that come from 595 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: lifting and putting things down. I mean, the sciatica and 596 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: stuff that these people have to work through is unbelievable. 597 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: And all they're asking for is, hey, maybe I want 598 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: a ten to fifteen instead of a ten minute break 599 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: I want fifteen because actually it takes me seven minutes 600 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: to walk to the breakroom, which means that after the 601 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: time I'm gone to the bathroom, I have like two 602 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: minutes before I actually have to get up and go 603 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,719 Speaker 1: back to work. Could I have ten minutes? Maybe radical idea. 604 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: I know this is the point, which is that they 605 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: deserve a say within that. And look, the history of 606 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: the unionization does not see us, especially at this nacent level, 607 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: not in the bloated stuff of the nineteen seventies and 608 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties. I'm talking about in the real history 609 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 1: of the unionization, whenever there's zero power and then zero 610 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: power and one hundred percent power on half of the bosses. 611 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 1: It made it so that capitalism was much more sustainable, 612 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,959 Speaker 1: and we've had an industrial middle class in the nineteen fifties. 613 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: I think that's a very good way of framing it, 614 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: because obviously we know our audience is ideologically diverse, and 615 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: what unions represent is just a counterweight, right that doesn't 616 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: require a bunch of you know, government bureaucracy. Yes, you 617 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: need the NLRB to be strong and enforce the rules, 618 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: but this is a counterweight, a way to sort of 619 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: make capitalism work for not a big capitalist, but make 620 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: it work for the middle class, be able to have 621 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: people bought in to the prosper of America. It's no 622 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: accident that this is happening right now when you've had 623 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: workers watch for two years as Jeff Bezos had plenty 624 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: of money to like fly to into space and right 625 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: exactly and add billions to his net worth, and they're like, really, 626 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: I can't get like a twenty minute break? Are you serious? 627 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: Why Kramer's comments are so revealing here is because he 628 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: is telling you that this isn't really about profit margins. 629 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: It is on the margins. This isn't that they can't 630 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: afford to pay the workers more or give them better 631 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: benefits or let them have breaks. It's that they want 632 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: to have total and complete control, and anything that is 633 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: going to take away that control even a little bit, 634 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: they consider to be completely unacceptable. I mean, he says, 635 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,719 Speaker 1: if you can't control the workforce, then this is you know, 636 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: this is basically going to be terrible for Amazon. Look, 637 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: the reality is what we have seen with the Starbucks 638 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: that have unized, at least someone's in the Buffalo, their 639 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: sales actually went up. People were so excited that you 640 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: had these workers who were in the news who were 641 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: taking power in their own hands, and you know, they'd 642 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 1: sort of like ingested the rhetoric about essential workers and 643 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: wanted to show their support. It was actually good for business. 644 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: Amazon is facing a problem right now because they had 645 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: turned through so many workers so quickly. They're having trouble 646 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,959 Speaker 1: being able to add enough workforce to be able to 647 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: meet their you know, burgeoning, wildly large business. So you know, 648 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing for their business 649 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: if their workers were actually bought in and felt like 650 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: they had some say over their day to day lives. 651 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: Study after study shows that one of the key determinants 652 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: of happiness is you know, you need enough money to 653 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: be able to do okay and meet your basic needs, 654 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: But the big determinant is actually that you feel like 655 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: you have control over your day to day and that 656 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: is exactly the thing that Amazon will fight tooth and 657 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: nail to make sure that you don't have. We've talked 658 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: here before many times about the way they track your 659 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: every movement, every single thing you do, from the time 660 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: that you enter that facility until the time that you leave. 661 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: Your whole day, your whole life. Everything is governed by Amazon. 662 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: And what these workers are saying, they have some specific 663 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 1: demands in terms of wages and benefits they want to see. 664 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: But what they're really saying here is we deserve to 665 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: have some democracy within our workplace. We deserve to have 666 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,360 Speaker 1: a say in what is going on here. And you 667 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: can't call us essential and then treat us like we're garbage. Yeah, 668 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: I mean, look, Amazon, just what this is. March ninth, 669 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: so less than one month ago, announced a twenty to 670 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: one stock split and bought back ten billion dollars of 671 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: its own stock. Just rejuice the price and make all 672 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: of its executives very wealthy along with its shareholders. Bezos 673 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: himself could give up all of the wealth that he 674 00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 1: just earned in the last two years. Look, I'm not 675 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: proposing something radical. He went from one hundred billion to 676 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 1: like two hundred billion, and I'm not saying give up 677 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: as in the government force him to. If he just 678 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 1: did it voluntarily, does he really need that extra fifty billion? 679 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: Could have given everybody at the company, including the workforce, 680 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: a massive rays healthcare benefits. And ask yourself this too. 681 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: In terms of the market cap of Amazon, bad Press 682 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: and all that wouldn't that be the immense show of 683 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,800 Speaker 1: faith that would stop the unionization efforts in his tracks. Yes, 684 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 1: But here's the truth. They care so much about that 685 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: extra fifty billion on top of the one hundred billion 686 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: and the extra billions to the executives or millions to 687 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: the people in the C suites that they are willing 688 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: to fight this tooth and nail just so that they 689 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: can enrich themselves and the shareholder class. Well, this is 690 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 1: the absolute truth. Like it's right there. In terms of 691 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 1: buying back their own stock while fighting the union effort 692 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,359 Speaker 1: hand and foot, they tried to increase they did. They 693 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: upped their wages, and they up some benefits in response 694 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 1: to increasing work or dissatisfaction. And some of these union 695 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:03,799 Speaker 1: drives at work because ultimately, there is no workplace in 696 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:10,319 Speaker 1: America where you are more controlled, more surveiled than as 697 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: an Amazon worker. They are at the bleeding edge of 698 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,240 Speaker 1: all of this wearable tech so that they know exactly 699 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 1: where you are, exactly how many seconds it took for 700 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,399 Speaker 1: you to pack that box or pick that item. And 701 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 1: so even though yes, they you know, up some of 702 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 1: their wages, up some of their benefits, workers, what they 703 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: what this is really a fight over ultimately is control. 704 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: One last note year on the media response, so we 705 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 1: highlighted for you New York Times I thought had a 706 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 1: very good and interesting write up, you know, of what 707 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,840 Speaker 1: ultimately went down here. Some of the other sort of 708 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: mainstream like news outlets of that ILK had similar pieces. 709 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 1: I went and tried to look through cable news to 710 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 1: see what they were doing, and the answer was like, 711 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,840 Speaker 1: basically nothing as far as I can tell. Foxing is 712 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,839 Speaker 1: the only aspect of this that they covered was like 713 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,839 Speaker 1: me fighting with AOC cool which I'm going to talk 714 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 1: about in my monologue too, and sort of like a 715 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: response to them. But they's such disingenuous hacks, like they're 716 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: so anti union, but they posture like their pro worker 717 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: just because it's a way for them to own AOC. 718 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: It's a stupid They're stupid in the way that they 719 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: did it. But anyway, we'll get into that. CNN, I 720 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,799 Speaker 1: can't find that they said a word about this. They 721 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,520 Speaker 1: have one little article on their website and when you 722 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 1: go to it, they you know, they normally embed like 723 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 1: a segment, a relevant segment. Yes, there's no relevant segment 724 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,840 Speaker 1: about this, So I don't think they mentioned it at all. 725 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: And again, guys, whatever you think about it, this is 726 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 1: a historic moment, like the biggest win for labor since 727 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,799 Speaker 1: like the nineteen thirties. Amazon is a holy grail of 728 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: labor organizing. So for you to just be like it's 729 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 1: not that important is pretty extraordinary. And the SIME see 730 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 1: the segment I could find from them, We may show 731 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 1: you later in the show, but they actually interview Christian 732 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 1: Smalls and it gets uncomfortable because they ask him like, oh, 733 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 1: what about this thing with AOC and she says she's 734 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: trying to be helpful, and Christian's like, I have no 735 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 1: idea what you're talking about because we certainly didn't see 736 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,360 Speaker 1: any of that help. So they quickly end the segment 737 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: after that, I'm sure they cut real quick. That'll probably 738 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:19,799 Speaker 1: be the last you hear about the as you'll ever 739 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: hear it there. So cable news not exactly all over it. 740 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:28,719 Speaker 1: And I also final note on this, You know, the 741 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 1: bottom line is the mainstream press is not that good 742 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 1: at their job because we've been covering this for years 743 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: and it's just you and me and the small team 744 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 1: and it's not that hard and we saw you know, Yeah, 745 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: it's a long shot. But this is really significant shorter, 746 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,720 Speaker 1: what they're trying to do. The story of Christian himself 747 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: is extremely compelling, and this is you know, a really 748 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 1: dynamic and courageous leader. And so you know, they just 749 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,359 Speaker 1: totally missed the boat on something that is extremely impactful 750 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 1: and profoundly interesting and really relevant to their audience, and 751 00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 1: they're just no. I actually remember how that came up. 752 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 1: We did the segment about Christian getting fired. He saw it, 753 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:04,959 Speaker 1: tweeted about it, DMed him, and booked it for the show. 754 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,879 Speaker 1: It was literally that simple. So you know, guys, it's 755 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,360 Speaker 1: not that hard. Cable news bookers they spend they have 756 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 1: a much, much, much bigger budget. Their budget for booking 757 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,919 Speaker 1: is bigger than the budget of this entire show, and yeah, 758 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 1: the magnitude, and they are still unable to bring you 759 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: the most important stories. Look, that's just really the name 760 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: of the game, and that's why we do what we 761 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:30,319 Speaker 1: do here, and we of course think the people will 762 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 1: support us to enable that type of journal. Let's move 763 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: on now to Ukraine. Obviously, actually been nice to not 764 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 1: have to open the show with Ukraine to actually bring 765 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 1: some people some good news. But let's get to how 766 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,440 Speaker 1: exactly things are faring on the battlefield and any of 767 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,800 Speaker 1: the bigger diplomatic updates. So our friend at Simtak continued 768 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: to have some of the best maps in the game 769 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: here and let's put this up there on the screen. 770 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,279 Speaker 1: So in terms of what's happening with kid, that's where 771 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 1: we're going to focus the bulk of our attention. There's 772 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: been a lot made. Are they withdrawing and is this 773 00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: strategic and did they plan it all along or not? 774 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,920 Speaker 1: So the Ukrainian military has managed to secure some of 775 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: these territories northwest of Kiev, up near the Belarussian border, 776 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:11,400 Speaker 1: and Ukrainian forces continue to clear individual localities behind the 777 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,360 Speaker 1: withdrawing Russian forces. You can see for those who are 778 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 1: watching just on the screen those red arrows up into 779 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: Belarussia and into Russian territory now at the same time, though, 780 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,719 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that there isn't an offensive all the 781 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 1: way in the eastern part of the country, predominantly around 782 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 1: the Dunboss region, which is where a lot of the 783 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 1: trouble has started. Now, before we get to the specifics 784 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 1: of that, Michael Kaufman, the analysts that we both deeply respect, 785 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: had two long threads on what context of where the 786 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 1: war is that I think are really worth parsing and 787 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: going through for everybody for trying to understand what's happening. 788 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,239 Speaker 1: Let's put this up there on the screen, please, which 789 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 1: is that what Michael points to is that in terms 790 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,800 Speaker 1: of the map and the progress of forces, he says 791 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 1: that this kind of splits the difference here, which is 792 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 1: that it seems certain that the Russians death definitely did 793 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 1: want to take Kiev, but that that doesn't mean that 794 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,879 Speaker 1: they have not still the ability in order to fight 795 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,480 Speaker 1: to some sort of stalemate or in order even possibly 796 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 1: offensively in the Dunbass region. Really, what he points to 797 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: is that Putin has put himself into a real bind. 798 00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: And the reason why is that the bind has been 799 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,719 Speaker 1: made by Putin calling this a special operation, and by 800 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 1: calling it a special operation, he's only been able to 801 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,280 Speaker 1: bring some of his ultimate force to bear. The problem 802 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,880 Speaker 1: is is think of it this way. Russia is fighting 803 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: this war with fifteen to twenty percent of its operational capacity. However, 804 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 1: the Ukrainians are fighting this with one hundred percent of 805 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: their operational capacity, both in terms of war also in 806 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: terms of civilian buy in. Put the next threat up 807 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,839 Speaker 1: there please on the screen, and we'll have links down 808 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 1: there just so everybody can go and watch it. What 809 00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,120 Speaker 1: I find is the most important thing here that Michael 810 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 1: points to is that for Putin, in order to quote 811 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,759 Speaker 1: unquote scale up operations, here's what he has to do. 812 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,880 Speaker 1: Russia can get more battalions, but without a national mobilization, 813 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,760 Speaker 1: its ability to pursue the war beyond the Dunboss looks 814 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:17,280 Speaker 1: very circumstect and it can't get more units quickly. Right now. 815 00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,920 Speaker 1: The Russian military has to fight largely with what it 816 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,319 Speaker 1: has managed to put together. That's a problem for when 817 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 1: you want to conduct a national scale military operation on 818 00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,720 Speaker 1: the entire country of Ukraine, which is the largest country 819 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,080 Speaker 1: in Europe, A lot of people forget that. So what 820 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,440 Speaker 1: it means is that the limited war aims could be 821 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,400 Speaker 1: and again this is a big could could be, such 822 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,480 Speaker 1: that what the Russians want to do is retreat slash, 823 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,280 Speaker 1: focus all of their efforts on securing the Dunboss region 824 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,920 Speaker 1: in the eastern part of the country in order to 825 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 1: then get concessions from Zelenski in terms of a neutrality declaration. Yes, 826 00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,400 Speaker 1: we're gonna give you don Yatskin. They may not say it, 827 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,480 Speaker 1: but they're not going to fight over it. Yes, we 828 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,640 Speaker 1: will officially recognize crimea kind of with a stalemate that 829 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: we actually were in, and then maybe we can just 830 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,279 Speaker 1: see some sort of ceasefire come about. But I found 831 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:14,080 Speaker 1: those two threads very revealing. In number one that the Russians, 832 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,640 Speaker 1: because they've hamstrung themselves by not declaring this war, declaring 833 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,440 Speaker 1: it a special operation, they really are not able to 834 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 1: bring the full force of military power to bear. And 835 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 1: number two that politically it's dicey in terms of whether 836 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,920 Speaker 1: Putin could pull off the full scale national mobilization. It 837 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,280 Speaker 1: reminds me a lot of past Russian campaigns Afghanistan, Finland 838 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,399 Speaker 1: and Moore sold to the public in much the same way. 839 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,880 Speaker 1: Unless you have total buy in, it's not really capable 840 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 1: of fighting it fully to the extent that you need to, 841 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:42,640 Speaker 1: which is why they were able to do that when 842 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,320 Speaker 1: Hitler invaded. Yeah, so you have a couple of things 843 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,080 Speaker 1: going on. First of all, it's very clear, you know, 844 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,680 Speaker 1: have a refocusing of the fight in the eastern region 845 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 1: of Ukraine. There was a sort of countertake that we 846 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:57,080 Speaker 1: brought you last week of perhaps it was always intentional 847 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,640 Speaker 1: that the you know, threat to take Key was kind 848 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,359 Speaker 1: of like, you know, a fake out move right. I'm 849 00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 1: not sure if I buy that, but that is an 850 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,759 Speaker 1: alternative interpretation. Year, Yeah, it's worth it's worth putting out 851 00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,440 Speaker 1: there that that's an alternative interpretation. Most analysts, though, are 852 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,720 Speaker 1: saying that basically, look, they haven't been able to achieve 853 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:20,120 Speaker 1: their maximalist political aims here, so now they're focusing on 854 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:24,440 Speaker 1: their sort of core strategic objectives and that you know, 855 00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,319 Speaker 1: the Ukrainian forces they have fought extraordinarily well, and they've 856 00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:32,160 Speaker 1: been supplied with you know, incredible amounts of weapons by 857 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,680 Speaker 1: US and by the West, but they've you know, they've 858 00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 1: sustained losses as well, and so now the fight moves 859 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,719 Speaker 1: to eastern and southern Ukraine and we'll see what this 860 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,160 Speaker 1: next phase of the war ultimately looks like. You have 861 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,960 Speaker 1: a very difficult political bind for Putin, as you laid out, 862 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,880 Speaker 1: because he hasn't been honest at all with his public 863 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,319 Speaker 1: about what this is and so makes it very hard 864 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,520 Speaker 1: to go to them and say we've got to mobilize 865 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:57,200 Speaker 1: for a war effort when they're like, what war is, right, Like, 866 00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,799 Speaker 1: what are you talking about? There's no war? So that's 867 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,279 Speaker 1: bind and then Zelensky has his own bind which is that, 868 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,080 Speaker 1: you know, Ukrainians really feel like they're able to out 869 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,560 Speaker 1: and out win this, which makes it very difficult to 870 00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:13,480 Speaker 1: sell any sort of negotiated agreement and settlement to the public. 871 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,319 Speaker 1: So that's why sometimes when you hear him talk, he's 872 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,200 Speaker 1: kind of all over the place. Sometimes it's very conciliatory. 873 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,799 Speaker 1: It really depends on the audience. Very conciliatory. Listen, we're 874 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,680 Speaker 1: willing to let's talk about neutral status. Listen, we know 875 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,719 Speaker 1: that we're not going to we aren't going to use 876 00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,640 Speaker 1: arms to try to take back the regions like Crimea 877 00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 1: and Dunetzk that you've occupied. And sometimes you hear the language, 878 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,120 Speaker 1: which you did this weekend on the Sunday shows, of 879 00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 1: this is a genocide and we've got to be all 880 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:41,919 Speaker 1: in and we're not going to give up an inch 881 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:46,280 Speaker 1: of territory. So that's the balancing act that he's having 882 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,160 Speaker 1: to deal with here. And so right now we're just 883 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,560 Speaker 1: waiting to see, you know, how this all shakes down 884 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 1: and what it looks like once they refocus on the 885 00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,000 Speaker 1: eastern part of the count. There's just no way to know. 886 00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,000 Speaker 1: And on top of all of this, is the real issue. 887 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,360 Speaker 1: Let's move on to this next part. Let's put this 888 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,160 Speaker 1: next on the screen, which is that there has been 889 00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:09,360 Speaker 1: some pretty dramatic accusations of war crimes by the Russian military. 890 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,320 Speaker 1: Now we're not going to show you the photos because 891 00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,800 Speaker 1: it's very difficult a in order to verify that it's happening. 892 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,040 Speaker 1: B in terms of who these people are and others, 893 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,799 Speaker 1: and there's a ton of propaganda going around. I think 894 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,200 Speaker 1: what can be said is this, which is that on 895 00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,960 Speaker 1: the internet over the last couple of days were have 896 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,440 Speaker 1: been traded accusations of war crimes by the Russian forces, 897 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,280 Speaker 1: which has spawned a lot of calls by the media 898 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,600 Speaker 1: in order for more intervention. And also the Russian telegram 899 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:40,440 Speaker 1: channels are alike with all of these videos purporting to 900 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,239 Speaker 1: show Ukrainian forces also not treating Russian soldiers. Well, I'm 901 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,359 Speaker 1: going to air on the side of frankly believing both 902 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 1: of them, which is not going to please a lot 903 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:50,200 Speaker 1: of people. And the reason why it is war as hell. 904 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,640 Speaker 1: It brings out the absolute brutality and the worst in people, 905 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,359 Speaker 1: and sometimes strategy has nothing to do with it, and 906 00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:01,160 Speaker 1: the immense anger that some junior level forces feel in 907 00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,719 Speaker 1: the heat of this type of conflict can actually lead 908 00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,279 Speaker 1: to some of the worst things that happen, as we 909 00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:10,000 Speaker 1: have seen throughout the history of warfare. But that obviously 910 00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,000 Speaker 1: is a complicated story. The problem, though, is it has 911 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:17,000 Speaker 1: spawned some of the craziest calls yet that we have 912 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:22,120 Speaker 1: seen from the mainstream media for direct intervention into the 913 00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,920 Speaker 1: conflict with Ukraine by the United States. Chief among them 914 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,840 Speaker 1: really has been ali velshi Over at MSNBC. Here was 915 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,920 Speaker 1: his dispatch after some of the war crime photos appeared 916 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,600 Speaker 1: to be a public let's take a listen. The global 917 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:39,360 Speaker 1: world order and potentially democracy's survival hang in the balance. 918 00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,960 Speaker 1: If this isn't the kind of moment that the United 919 00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:45,520 Speaker 1: Nations and NATO and the UN and G twenty and 920 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,080 Speaker 1: the Council of Europe and the G seven were made for, 921 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,120 Speaker 1: what is the point of these alliances if not to 922 00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:56,040 Speaker 1: stop this? The world cannot sit by as Vladimir Putin 923 00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,680 Speaker 1: continues this reign of terror. Oh my gosh, Crystal, this 924 00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,120 Speaker 1: is This is the other problem, which is you can't 925 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,919 Speaker 1: let emotion clouds your judgment this way when you say, 926 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,000 Speaker 1: if this is not what to do, then what you're 927 00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,520 Speaker 1: talking once again about a nuclear exchange also. And look, 928 00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:13,840 Speaker 1: I know this sounds heartless, and I do not diminish 929 00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:15,960 Speaker 1: what's happened to the Ukrainian people and to many of 930 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,319 Speaker 1: the civilians and others who have suffered here. But the 931 00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:22,040 Speaker 1: point of an alliance is about defense. It's not actually 932 00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:26,439 Speaker 1: about acting on the humanitarian force in order to bring 933 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,920 Speaker 1: military force to bear. It's about protecting national interest. This 934 00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,520 Speaker 1: can sound callous, but at the very core level, that 935 00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,759 Speaker 1: is what the NATO alliance is actually about. It's not 936 00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:39,160 Speaker 1: about this entire doctrine which he's espousing here, which is 937 00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:42,239 Speaker 1: called R two P. The responsibility to protect This is 938 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,440 Speaker 1: something that's emerged in the decadence of the nineteen nineties. 939 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,319 Speaker 1: If you were to go back and talk to any 940 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,680 Speaker 1: statesman in history, this would be a completely foreign concept. 941 00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:54,240 Speaker 1: But it has completely taken over all of the brains 942 00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,120 Speaker 1: of the people in media here. And they almost are 943 00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:59,680 Speaker 1: using emotional blackmail, which is saying, oh, are you saying 944 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:01,920 Speaker 1: that you don't care about the war crime? Of course not, 945 00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,040 Speaker 1: it's horrible what is happening. Does that mean that we 946 00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,960 Speaker 1: should risk a nuclear exchange? No? I mean that's a 947 00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:11,880 Speaker 1: very simple calculus to me. I don't understand why they 948 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:16,080 Speaker 1: why they are discarding these outright risks. It may come 949 00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:19,120 Speaker 1: from chauvinism hubris of the West. They may just want 950 00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,680 Speaker 1: to call Putin's buff they maybe they're fine with it. 951 00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,759 Speaker 1: I really don't know the answer, but that's incredibly irresponsible 952 00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:27,959 Speaker 1: to broadcast to millions of people. Yeah, and by the way, 953 00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,720 Speaker 1: just in case he wasn't clear enough in that clip 954 00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,800 Speaker 1: that we just showed on Twitter, he said something very similar. 955 00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:35,400 Speaker 1: He said, the turning point for the West and NATO 956 00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:37,760 Speaker 1: will come when the sun rises over Kiev on Sunday 957 00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,640 Speaker 1: and the war crimes against civilian non combatants become visible 958 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,600 Speaker 1: to all. There is no more time for prevarication. If 959 00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:46,680 Speaker 1: never again means anything, then this is the time to act. 960 00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:51,560 Speaker 1: Aaron Monte replied to that and said, Okay, what specifically 961 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:57,120 Speaker 1: are you advocating for, and ali Velshi replies, direct military involvement. 962 00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:01,360 Speaker 1: So he's I mean, you know, he's not even trying 963 00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,239 Speaker 1: to couch it or hide it or whatever, which I 964 00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:06,239 Speaker 1: mean I kind of appreciate, yeah, honesty, because that's what 965 00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:09,040 Speaker 1: a lot of these people ultimately want but won't actually 966 00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,239 Speaker 1: come out and say. But no, he came right out 967 00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:15,879 Speaker 1: and said what I want is direct military involvement. And 968 00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,839 Speaker 1: this is why I've been very leery of the overwhelming 969 00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:22,640 Speaker 1: This is going to sound terrible, but this is the reality. 970 00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:26,279 Speaker 1: The overwhelming focus on just the humanitarian aspect of this, 971 00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:31,680 Speaker 1: which is important, deserves coverage, deserves endless compassion, but without 972 00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:36,280 Speaker 1: corresponding hard nos conversation about what each of these options 973 00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:40,560 Speaker 1: ultimately mean. What did it mean when we launched all 974 00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:44,000 Speaker 1: economic warfare on Russia? And how is that likely ultimately 975 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:45,319 Speaker 1: to go? And we're going to get to that in 976 00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:48,200 Speaker 1: a moment. It hasn't gone well. In fact, it's really backfired. 977 00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,680 Speaker 1: It's made it less likely to create the outcomes that 978 00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:53,920 Speaker 1: we ultimately like. It's sort of strengthened the hand of 979 00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,279 Speaker 1: Putin in a lot of regards in terms of his 980 00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:00,799 Speaker 1: hold on power within Russia. What does it mean if 981 00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,960 Speaker 1: you're going to have fighter jets in Ukraine? If you're 982 00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:05,960 Speaker 1: going to send fighter jets in what does it mean 983 00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:09,200 Speaker 1: if you enforce no FLI zone. The lack of that 984 00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,239 Speaker 1: kind of discussion of how this could escalate and what 985 00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:16,520 Speaker 1: each of our choices ultimately risks, that's how you end 986 00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:19,480 Speaker 1: up with people who I'm sure think of themselves as 987 00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:24,520 Speaker 1: very liberal like Ali Velshi and potentially progressive advocating for worse. 988 00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,480 Speaker 1: It's the same exact playbook that we saw with regards 989 00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,839 Speaker 1: to Afghanistan, where people who see themselves as you know, 990 00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,640 Speaker 1: like really do good bleeding heart liberals, and I don't 991 00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:38,880 Speaker 1: say that in a disparaging way, being manipulated into thinking 992 00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:42,879 Speaker 1: that the right like just humanitarian thing is for us 993 00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,839 Speaker 1: to stay in Afghanistan. Forepp Yeah, okay, let's let's roll 994 00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:48,600 Speaker 1: the tape here. What happened the last time that NATO 995 00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:54,400 Speaker 1: acted out of humanitarian intervention. We know it's twenty eleven Libya. 996 00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,520 Speaker 1: The French and the Ya Germans say we want to 997 00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,880 Speaker 1: have a humanitarian NATO mission in order to take out 998 00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,440 Speaker 1: Gaddafi's air force to stop him from you know, inflicting 999 00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:09,320 Speaker 1: pain on the civilian population amid the Libyan revolution. Sounds noble, Okay, 1000 00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,200 Speaker 1: so we do that. What ends up happening, Well, these 1001 00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:16,000 Speaker 1: rebels win the civil war, sodomized Gadafi on live television. 1002 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,600 Speaker 1: I have no sympatheva Gadafi, by the way, but that's 1003 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:21,160 Speaker 1: what happens. So we have a cheer. We think this 1004 00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:23,920 Speaker 1: is all going to work out. Well, Okay, what happens, 1005 00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:27,920 Speaker 1: Libya collapses into a massive civil war, hundreds of thousands 1006 00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,919 Speaker 1: are dead, many of those weapons from Gaddafi and find 1007 00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:33,880 Speaker 1: the other way into Syria. By the way, our ambassador 1008 00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:37,800 Speaker 1: Christopher Stevens gets attacked by radical Islamic terrorists on September 1009 00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:41,000 Speaker 1: eleventh and ends up dying. Then what happens is that 1010 00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:44,480 Speaker 1: modern day slave markets begin to pop up in Libya. 1011 00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:47,920 Speaker 1: And now it's twenty twenty two. The city of Benghazi, 1012 00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,760 Speaker 1: which at the time we were trying to protect, fell 1013 00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,120 Speaker 1: to isis requiring us to bombit to smithereens in order 1014 00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,480 Speaker 1: to take them out. And eleven years later, after all 1015 00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,640 Speaker 1: of this has happened, are the Libyan people better off 1016 00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,279 Speaker 1: for us having done that? At the time, some of 1017 00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:06,680 Speaker 1: them might argue yes. Maybe. I think a lot of 1018 00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:10,040 Speaker 1: them would say that what has resulted as all of 1019 00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:13,279 Speaker 1: this has been utter chaos, the destruction of wealth, the 1020 00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:16,640 Speaker 1: destruction of the entire Libyan middle class, and has also sparked, 1021 00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,520 Speaker 1: by the way, the refugee crisis in terms of what's 1022 00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,279 Speaker 1: happening in Europe. So you put that all together, we 1023 00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,399 Speaker 1: know what happens. I don't understand how we can't look 1024 00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:27,760 Speaker 1: at that story and then say, you know what, let's 1025 00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,840 Speaker 1: up the ante and do that again in Europe except 1026 00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:34,680 Speaker 1: against somebody who has nuclear weapons. This is the point. 1027 00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:39,200 Speaker 1: You can't let just sheer emotion guide your security decisions. 1028 00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,600 Speaker 1: And when you have calls like this without airing really, 1029 00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:46,000 Speaker 1: what the really, what the consequences are? It's dangerous. You know. 1030 00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:49,520 Speaker 1: I saw over the weekend there's a Ukrainian politician he 1031 00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,360 Speaker 1: tweeted out some of these photos, these terrible photos of 1032 00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:55,080 Speaker 1: civilians who were killed. Again, Mahark goes out. Of these 1033 00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,239 Speaker 1: people seriously, he says, this is the Ukrainian city after 1034 00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:02,040 Speaker 1: being deoccupied. Dead bodies of civilians with hands tied and 1035 00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,080 Speaker 1: bullet holes in their heads from behind. This is twenty 1036 00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:08,040 Speaker 1: twenty two? Is it fascism? Hergenacide? What's this? Europe? USA? 1037 00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:12,799 Speaker 1: How did we let this happen? Now? Once again you 1038 00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,880 Speaker 1: are presuming that it is all within our control. It 1039 00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:19,000 Speaker 1: is the chief you know, the egotism, to think that 1040 00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:22,520 Speaker 1: you have a direct influence on the affairs of the 1041 00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:26,080 Speaker 1: entire world is crazy. But what's even worse is that 1042 00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,719 Speaker 1: that was quote tweeted and reiterated by some of the 1043 00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:32,520 Speaker 1: top people in all of media. Margaret Brennan at CBS 1044 00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:34,760 Speaker 1: News Face in the Nation chief among them. She literally 1045 00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,640 Speaker 1: just quote tweeted it and said Europe, USA, how did 1046 00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,520 Speaker 1: we let this happen? And a very quick perusal of 1047 00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:45,240 Speaker 1: her feed is just constant retweeting calls for NATO saying 1048 00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:49,279 Speaker 1: that this questions the entire NATO alliance about you know, 1049 00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:52,960 Speaker 1: all of these calls for a straight news That's what 1050 00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:56,640 Speaker 1: I'm sayingst That's what I'm saying. That's why it's crazy. 1051 00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:00,879 Speaker 1: And we see this in terms of her coverage as well. Look, 1052 00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,480 Speaker 1: I think Zelensky is a hero of his own people 1053 00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,960 Speaker 1: and he's doing a great job for Ukraine. Does that 1054 00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:08,840 Speaker 1: mean that we have to take everything the man says 1055 00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:12,120 Speaker 1: entirely is fact. No, we have to fact check these things. 1056 00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:14,759 Speaker 1: And yet look at how she conducts herself whenever she 1057 00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:18,040 Speaker 1: has him on television. Let's take a listen, mister president, 1058 00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:22,879 Speaker 1: your team shared with us a video images that your 1059 00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,480 Speaker 1: government has gathered of what has been left behind outside 1060 00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:28,239 Speaker 1: of Kiev that I do want to share with our 1061 00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:32,560 Speaker 1: viewers and I want to ask you about it. So again, 1062 00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:37,759 Speaker 1: we're airing images obtained direct from the Ukrainian government. Do 1063 00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:41,800 Speaker 1: I think that they're wrong, No, are they perhaps selectively edited? 1064 00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:44,799 Speaker 1: Should we then maybe do our due diligence? Last time 1065 00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,759 Speaker 1: I checked, there are war photographers in Ukraine. You can 1066 00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:51,520 Speaker 1: also use open source photos from what's happening. This is 1067 00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,560 Speaker 1: a dangerous precedent that we're setting here. You know what 1068 00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:58,960 Speaker 1: we learned from Iraq WMD. Don't trust anything that governments 1069 00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:01,279 Speaker 1: are going to tell you straight up. You should or 1070 00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:04,759 Speaker 1: find trust would verify at the very least. And I 1071 00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:08,319 Speaker 1: hate trying. I hate sounding as if I'm diminishing the 1072 00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:10,799 Speaker 1: Ukrainian cause. I think it's a just cause. What I'm 1073 00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:14,880 Speaker 1: pointing to instead is that how we conduct ourselves should 1074 00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:19,799 Speaker 1: should at the very least be the chief consideration of 1075 00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:23,560 Speaker 1: what do we have at stake, What are the consequences 1076 00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:27,480 Speaker 1: of escalation, How would that impact the American people, the 1077 00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:31,640 Speaker 1: global economy, the lives of our everyday citizens. All of 1078 00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:34,279 Speaker 1: that is being pushed aside by our current mainstream meing. 1079 00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:36,279 Speaker 1: And I do think that Biden really gave up the 1080 00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:39,840 Speaker 1: game when he admitted that what their real goal was 1081 00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:43,160 Speaker 1: was removing Putin from power, not through I don't think 1082 00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,080 Speaker 1: that there are you know, many people within the administration 1083 00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:48,719 Speaker 1: who are pushing for like a direct war on Russia. 1084 00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,799 Speaker 1: But they are foolishly deluding themselves into thinking that they 1085 00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:54,880 Speaker 1: can bring enough pressure to bear internally within the country 1086 00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:57,799 Speaker 1: that his regime will fall. And again we're about to 1087 00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,239 Speaker 1: tell you why that whole approach has complete backfired, when 1088 00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:05,080 Speaker 1: in fact, what we should be relentlessly focused on, if 1089 00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:09,360 Speaker 1: you do care about the lives of the Ukrainian people 1090 00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:12,719 Speaker 1: and about their cause, which is just how do we 1091 00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:16,160 Speaker 1: create conditions for peace? How do we put pressure on 1092 00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:20,360 Speaker 1: both sides to create conditions for peace? And that is 1093 00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:24,920 Speaker 1: not a conversation that you see anywhere unfolding in our media. 1094 00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:28,400 Speaker 1: I mean to the Margaret running thing. Listen, the Ukrainians 1095 00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:30,640 Speaker 1: are in a fight for their lives. They're in an 1096 00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:35,600 Speaker 1: absolutely existential struggle, and as part of that they are 1097 00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:40,440 Speaker 1: using every single channel of resistance that is available to them. 1098 00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,880 Speaker 1: And part of that resistance is information. Yeah, Zelensky has 1099 00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:48,480 Speaker 1: been you know, mostly very effective in that sphere, and 1100 00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:51,680 Speaker 1: we've already seen some just you know, blatant propaganda that 1101 00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:53,880 Speaker 1: came from them that was just not true. There was 1102 00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:56,720 Speaker 1: the what is he called the Ghost Fighter or whatever, 1103 00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:00,439 Speaker 1: ghost pilot. There was the Snake Island. I mean, we've 1104 00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:03,800 Speaker 1: had these inceases already which were debunked, which was propaganda 1105 00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:08,160 Speaker 1: came out from the Ukrainian government. And I'm not justifying it, 1106 00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:10,960 Speaker 1: but no one should be surprised that a nation in 1107 00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,520 Speaker 1: an existential battle for survival is going to use all 1108 00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:16,240 Speaker 1: of the tools at their disposal. So then for you 1109 00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:19,840 Speaker 1: to just effectively uncritically, yes, they put a little label 1110 00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:22,280 Speaker 1: on it that said Ukrainian government footage, but that's as 1111 00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:26,080 Speaker 1: far as they went, and you just uncritically share the 1112 00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:30,680 Speaker 1: propaganda reeal that they've prepared for you. That is really, 1113 00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:35,120 Speaker 1: really something I mean talk about just complete lack of 1114 00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:41,560 Speaker 1: any sort of journalistic integrity. It's extraordinary and clearly, you know, 1115 00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,680 Speaker 1: Margaret Brannan has become very activists on this issue. And 1116 00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:46,560 Speaker 1: this is another thing that really frustrates me with the 1117 00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:50,760 Speaker 1: mainstream press. I don't mind journalists having a worldview and 1118 00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,280 Speaker 1: having a lens and having an opinion, but what I 1119 00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:58,480 Speaker 1: despise is people holding themselves out as neutral arbiters and 1120 00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:02,560 Speaker 1: then actually be some of the most ideological actors that 1121 00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:05,080 Speaker 1: exist in American paper. Yes, they need to just admit 1122 00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:06,880 Speaker 1: the truth. She's like, look, this is really tugging on 1123 00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,120 Speaker 1: my heartstrings. This is a very difficult story for me 1124 00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:11,080 Speaker 1: to tell on the other side. But at the same time, 1125 00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:12,640 Speaker 1: I don't even really accept that because I think that 1126 00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:14,560 Speaker 1: whenever you hold that position. Look, there are all kinds 1127 00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:15,960 Speaker 1: of things. I believe. We have people on here all 1128 00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:17,720 Speaker 1: the time who I disagree with, and that's fine. You know, 1129 00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:19,480 Speaker 1: that's the whole point, which is that it's not about me, 1130 00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:21,600 Speaker 1: it's about everybody up here. I'll tell you what I think. 1131 00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:23,800 Speaker 1: You know, everybody knows that. But that doesn't mean this 1132 00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:26,480 Speaker 1: should be the only thing that people can hear. And 1133 00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:29,800 Speaker 1: unfortunately that just is the complete disposition right now of 1134 00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:32,640 Speaker 1: our media. And look, the conditions have probably never been 1135 00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:35,240 Speaker 1: better than right now for peace. The Ukrainians have actually 1136 00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:38,600 Speaker 1: fought this tremendously well. Now we see a Russian withdrawal 1137 00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:42,040 Speaker 1: strategic whatever you want to call it, to the Dunboss region. 1138 00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:44,480 Speaker 1: Let's get in the let's get in these conference rooms, 1139 00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:46,720 Speaker 1: and let's hammer something else so we can end this 1140 00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:49,160 Speaker 1: war and there can be no more war crimes, so 1141 00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:51,760 Speaker 1: that people don't die. Let's not use it as an 1142 00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:54,640 Speaker 1: excuse in order to launch World War three, in which 1143 00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:57,840 Speaker 1: things could hop off and really kill hundreds of millions 1144 00:59:57,880 --> 00:59:59,920 Speaker 1: of people in such a shriperod, how are you going 1145 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,280 Speaker 1: I'm going to offer to roll back sanctions on Russian now, 1146 01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:05,120 Speaker 1: now when you've said you want regime change, and he's 1147 01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:07,480 Speaker 1: a war criminal, and he's a butcher, and when you're 1148 01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:10,920 Speaker 1: playing videos like this, I mean, we didn't put in 1149 01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:12,760 Speaker 1: the show, but I mean Hillary Clinton was out there 1150 01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:14,480 Speaker 1: on the Sunday shows too, saying the same thing. We 1151 01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:16,680 Speaker 1: can never welcome Russia back into the community of Nations 1152 01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:19,960 Speaker 1: as long as Putin is in power effectively, So how 1153 01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:22,919 Speaker 1: are you what are you coming to the negotiating table 1154 01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:26,160 Speaker 1: with then? If your stance is like not sanctions forever, 1155 01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:30,440 Speaker 1: actually that's not creating conditions for peace, That is creating 1156 01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:34,160 Speaker 1: increasing escalation at the risk and using basically Ukrainian lives 1157 01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:37,560 Speaker 1: as cannon fodder. Yeah. My alternative thesis we never let 1158 01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:41,520 Speaker 1: Hillary back in the community of media. Yeah, I'm sorry 1159 01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:48,600 Speaker 1: that was forced. This is an important one about the 1160 01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:52,440 Speaker 1: Russian ruble. All eyes are on the Russian economy. Now, 1161 01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:56,360 Speaker 1: even in our analysis, I'll admit everything that I had 1162 01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,959 Speaker 1: read told me we just dropped a financial thermonuclear bomb 1163 01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:04,000 Speaker 1: on Russia. Very possible that that could still be the case. However, 1164 01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:07,480 Speaker 1: in the short term things are not going exactly as 1165 01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:09,920 Speaker 1: predicted and as planned. Let's put this up there on 1166 01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:14,280 Speaker 1: the screen, which is that despite Western sanctions, Russia's ruble 1167 01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:17,880 Speaker 1: and banks are recovering. So look at that chart which 1168 01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:20,000 Speaker 1: is there on the right side of the screen. Now 1169 01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:22,840 Speaker 1: for those who are just listening, the official ruble exchange 1170 01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:26,520 Speaker 1: for the dollar was seventy five before the war began. 1171 01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:32,040 Speaker 1: It plunged to one hundred and twenty. Obviously, then though 1172 01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:35,880 Speaker 1: in the period of the next month it has climbed 1173 01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:39,560 Speaker 1: from one point twenty back up to eighty four. So 1174 01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:43,040 Speaker 1: down to be sure, certainly in terms of where it 1175 01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:46,800 Speaker 1: was previously. But Crystal, I don't think that that was 1176 01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:49,600 Speaker 1: the picture that was painted for the American people and 1177 01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:52,480 Speaker 1: for the world in terms of the long term impact 1178 01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:56,720 Speaker 1: of the actual economy, and on all sides, we are 1179 01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,960 Speaker 1: beginning to see some strength on the part of the Russia. 1180 01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:03,080 Speaker 1: Let's put this up there on the screen. Russia's gas 1181 01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:07,600 Speaker 1: Prom has actually exited German business amid the crisis in 1182 01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,360 Speaker 1: energy ties. Now it's not the other way around. It's 1183 01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:11,919 Speaker 1: not the Germans who were pulling out of the deal. 1184 01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,840 Speaker 1: It's gas Prom saying it is quitting its business in Germany, 1185 01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:19,040 Speaker 1: and the reason why is very clearly some of these 1186 01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,360 Speaker 1: sanctions and is a move by the Russian government in 1187 01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:23,520 Speaker 1: order to put the squeeze on the Germans, who have 1188 01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:27,360 Speaker 1: left themselves tremendously vulnerable in terms of natural gas. There's 1189 01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:29,840 Speaker 1: another piece they mentioned here as well, though, which is 1190 01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:35,320 Speaker 1: that a German business daily had just reported on Thursday 1191 01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:40,480 Speaker 1: that the German Economy Ministry was considering nationalizing both got 1192 01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:44,360 Speaker 1: Gazprom and Rosneft units in the country amid concerns about 1193 01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:48,320 Speaker 1: the security of energy supplies. So Germany was considering taking 1194 01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:54,080 Speaker 1: their assets, basically nationalizing it. Russia obviously took this opportunity 1195 01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:56,360 Speaker 1: to say we're gonna take this back before you can 1196 01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:58,720 Speaker 1: do this. Another thing that goes to show you in 1197 01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:00,760 Speaker 1: terms of the power of the Russian government is that 1198 01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:04,240 Speaker 1: they are now requiring those payments in rubles, which what 1199 01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,080 Speaker 1: does that do. It's a backstop to the actual currency, 1200 01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:09,840 Speaker 1: very similar to some of the petro dollar discourse. By 1201 01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:13,240 Speaker 1: requiring that, they are actually inflating the price there of 1202 01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:17,040 Speaker 1: the ruble and keting keeping something to an inelastic product, 1203 01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:20,160 Speaker 1: which is gas and oil, which of course is very 1204 01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:23,439 Speaker 1: expensive right now. Even at the discounted Russian rates, they're 1205 01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:26,200 Speaker 1: still making a killing over there. So what it goes 1206 01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:28,960 Speaker 1: to show you in terms of all of this is 1207 01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:33,120 Speaker 1: that the exports are backing the Russian ruble, and that 1208 01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:35,640 Speaker 1: as much as you can try to cut off Russian 1209 01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:39,320 Speaker 1: exports and that from the global economy, it's really not possible, 1210 01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:43,280 Speaker 1: especially whenever we're talking about petroleum, and especially whenever you 1211 01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:45,880 Speaker 1: don't have China and India on board, two of the 1212 01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:49,280 Speaker 1: largest consumers of petroleum products on the global stage. So 1213 01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:51,880 Speaker 1: I talked to our friend Igor, Yeah, what does he think. 1214 01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:54,240 Speaker 1: He thinks that the picture they're painting here is too 1215 01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:57,720 Speaker 1: rosy and that Russia is taking a bigger hit than 1216 01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:02,920 Speaker 1: than this article is ultimately projecting, or as reflected in 1217 01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:06,080 Speaker 1: the exchange rate of the ruble at this point. And 1218 01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:09,320 Speaker 1: basically what he was pointing to, and this makes some 1219 01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:13,280 Speaker 1: sense to me, is that Russians follow the strength of 1220 01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:15,360 Speaker 1: the ruble very closely. So this would be a metric 1221 01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:17,840 Speaker 1: that everybody would kind of be paying attention to. And 1222 01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:20,960 Speaker 1: so Putin has engaged in sort of extraordinary lengths to 1223 01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:24,200 Speaker 1: prop up the value of the ruble. One of the 1224 01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:27,600 Speaker 1: things that the Washington Post mentions is that the central 1225 01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:31,320 Speaker 1: Bank in late February began requiring exporting companies to exchange 1226 01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:34,840 Speaker 1: eighty percent of their hard currency revenue for rubles. That 1227 01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:38,040 Speaker 1: create a new demand for Russia's currency, as you said, 1228 01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:41,720 Speaker 1: also demanding payments in rubles. So he's using these sort 1229 01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:46,440 Speaker 1: of extraordinary measures to help artificially prop up the value 1230 01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:49,200 Speaker 1: of the ruble, and that helps to hide some of 1231 01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:52,760 Speaker 1: the economic calamity. I think it likely still is not 1232 01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:57,280 Speaker 1: as extreme as what was projected. And then this is 1233 01:04:57,360 --> 01:05:00,400 Speaker 1: the other important piece of this, which is that not 1234 01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:04,600 Speaker 1: only has the economic fallout not been what was ultimately 1235 01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:09,160 Speaker 1: anticipated or projected, but the sanctions we have levied are 1236 01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:12,920 Speaker 1: really backfiring. They're doing exactly what you know they have 1237 01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:16,080 Speaker 1: done in Iran, North Korea and Cuba and Venezuela and 1238 01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:17,680 Speaker 1: all these other places that we tried to do this, 1239 01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:22,680 Speaker 1: which is it's actually strengthening the hand of the regime. Yeah, 1240 01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:25,640 Speaker 1: it's terrible for the people. It's very hard on the people, 1241 01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:28,880 Speaker 1: but ultimately the regime stays in power. Let's go ahead 1242 01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:31,840 Speaker 1: and put Rostouth out here had a good piece on this. 1243 01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:34,040 Speaker 1: This is as bold as you could be. In the 1244 01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:37,120 Speaker 1: New York Times, in proclaiming effectively that our sanctions have 1245 01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:39,600 Speaker 1: been foolish and have backfired. He writes, Putin is losing 1246 01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:44,120 Speaker 1: in Ukraine, but he is winning in Russia. He said, yes. 1247 01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:49,120 Speaker 1: Failed wars sometimes bring down authoritarian regimes, like in Argentina 1248 01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:52,280 Speaker 1: after its misadventure in the Falkland Islands, but externally imposed 1249 01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:56,120 Speaker 1: sanctions economic warfare often end up strengthening the internal power 1250 01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:59,240 Speaker 1: of the targeted regime. In the short run, they supply 1251 01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:02,200 Speaker 1: an external sik gapegoat, an obvious enemy to blame for 1252 01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:04,800 Speaker 1: hardship instead of your own leaders. In the long run, 1253 01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:09,080 Speaker 1: the academic literature suggests they make states more repressive and 1254 01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:13,720 Speaker 1: less likely to democratize. He closes by saying, no, if 1255 01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:16,960 Speaker 1: we intend to make economic war on Russia for a generation, 1256 01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:19,680 Speaker 1: we should be clear eyed about the calculus. In the 1257 01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:22,880 Speaker 1: hopes of making a dangerous great power as weak as possible, 1258 01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:26,400 Speaker 1: we will make it more likely that Putinism rules for 1259 01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:29,920 Speaker 1: decades and that Russia remains our deadly enemy for as 1260 01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:33,720 Speaker 1: long as anyone can reasonably foresee. Is that the outcome 1261 01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:35,680 Speaker 1: that you were sold, and is that the outcome that 1262 01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:39,480 Speaker 1: you ultimately want? Because that is what these indiscriminate sanctions 1263 01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:42,400 Speaker 1: that hit the entire population. That's the reality they're creating. 1264 01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:44,160 Speaker 1: Another thing that Ross points to, and I think is 1265 01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:47,800 Speaker 1: really important, is that in the previous era, Putin was 1266 01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:50,080 Speaker 1: not the only game in town. And you saw this 1267 01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:54,840 Speaker 1: Bika oligarchs gallivanting all around Europe, having business in London. 1268 01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:57,080 Speaker 1: I mean, they even made jokes in London and they're like, oh, 1269 01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:00,560 Speaker 1: this is little Moscow, you know, in those insight risks 1270 01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:03,400 Speaker 1: all over Europe. Anytime you travel, some of the richest 1271 01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:05,040 Speaker 1: people that you'll find, even New York. I mean, a 1272 01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:08,640 Speaker 1: lot of these people are Russian and they're using their capital, 1273 01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:13,960 Speaker 1: usually illgotten, and washing it through legitimate for Western financial institutions. Well, 1274 01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:17,560 Speaker 1: what Ross points to is that with the total declaration 1275 01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:20,520 Speaker 1: of economic war on Russia, he has actually united the 1276 01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:23,280 Speaker 1: Russian elite in a way that has not existed, hinder 1277 01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:26,920 Speaker 1: his entire tenure in office, because now Russians understand the 1278 01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:30,600 Speaker 1: only way to survive is Putin. We have to support 1279 01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:34,400 Speaker 1: Putin because we have no other options available to us 1280 01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:38,280 Speaker 1: in the global economy. For every one oligarch that might 1281 01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:41,360 Speaker 1: say one thing, the rest of them are one percent 1282 01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:44,400 Speaker 1: behind him. They have no other ability in order to 1283 01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:48,040 Speaker 1: maintain wealth crystal. So when you consider that you've united 1284 01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:50,640 Speaker 1: the Russian elite, the history of Russian revolutions, both the 1285 01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:54,320 Speaker 1: Czar and the Bolshevik Revolution, also the Soviet Union, is 1286 01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:59,200 Speaker 1: when the Russian elite abandoned the political project unfortunately in Russia. 1287 01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:01,160 Speaker 1: The history of Russia to us that what the peasant 1288 01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:03,080 Speaker 1: class or that you know, the normal worker wants there 1289 01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:05,920 Speaker 1: really doesn't matter all that much. Yeah, and so in 1290 01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:08,400 Speaker 1: an Igor, you know, told us, He's like, yeah, that 1291 01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:10,240 Speaker 1: people want the war to end, but it doesn't really matter, 1292 01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:13,920 Speaker 1: does it matters? Not relevant? Right, And so we'd actually 1293 01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:18,320 Speaker 1: united the entire Russian elite against us and towards Putin, 1294 01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:20,880 Speaker 1: and he could die tomorrow and I think some form 1295 01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:23,920 Speaker 1: of his regime would still endure for decades. It's essentially 1296 01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:26,719 Speaker 1: one even worse. I mean, that's the kind of conditions 1297 01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:29,200 Speaker 1: we're creating right now. I think that's really important. I 1298 01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:31,800 Speaker 1: also think there's been a lot of kind of triumphalous 1299 01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:36,639 Speaker 1: conversation about the brain drain as educated elites flea Russia, 1300 01:08:36,680 --> 01:08:39,160 Speaker 1: which I think is a real phenomenon that's happening. That's 1301 01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:41,519 Speaker 1: not necessarily bad for Putin, guys. I mean some of 1302 01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:44,920 Speaker 1: these folks were like the liberal opposition within the country, 1303 01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:48,679 Speaker 1: so for him to push them ount of the state again, 1304 01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:53,800 Speaker 1: that sort of strengthens his hand internally and domestically. We 1305 01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:56,280 Speaker 1: covered the guy who was like the highest level Kremlin 1306 01:08:56,320 --> 01:09:00,000 Speaker 1: advisor to resign. He'd been the liking on his name 1307 01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:01,880 Speaker 1: because I'm terrible at remembering names, but he was like 1308 01:09:01,960 --> 01:09:07,040 Speaker 1: the architect of the nineties era neoliberal reforms. He essentially 1309 01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:09,920 Speaker 1: like architect at the oligarchic system in Russia is very 1310 01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:12,120 Speaker 1: well known and it kind of been kept in a 1311 01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:15,599 Speaker 1: place in a high level as more like a figurehead 1312 01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:18,559 Speaker 1: and a token and a symbol than having any actual power. 1313 01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,439 Speaker 1: But you know, that guy left, and that's emblematic of 1314 01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:26,519 Speaker 1: how the sort of more liberal opposition wing is the 1315 01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:28,960 Speaker 1: ones who aren't down for it, they're leaving, and that 1316 01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:31,080 Speaker 1: what that leaves in place is the ones who are 1317 01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:34,040 Speaker 1: sort of like hardliners and down for the cause or 1318 01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:36,000 Speaker 1: have decided they have to be down for the cause 1319 01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:37,880 Speaker 1: because their wealth depends on it. Yeah, that's just an 1320 01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:40,720 Speaker 1: honest conversation about how things are actually going there. Yep, 1321 01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:43,880 Speaker 1: and once again one that you're very unlikely to hear 1322 01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:47,720 Speaker 1: in mainstream press, even though, we really need to understand, 1323 01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:51,840 Speaker 1: because we rushed into all of this, what the consequences 1324 01:09:52,040 --> 01:09:55,600 Speaker 1: of our actions ultimately are, and have a clear understanding 1325 01:09:55,760 --> 01:09:58,760 Speaker 1: of what are our policy goals. I mean, we don't 1326 01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:02,679 Speaker 1: even have like honest talk from the Biden administration about 1327 01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:05,479 Speaker 1: what our real goals here ultimately are. So that's why 1328 01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:08,280 Speaker 1: this matters. All right. This is an interesting study that 1329 01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:10,720 Speaker 1: Mattaglesias is writing about that kind of caught our eye 1330 01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:12,880 Speaker 1: about the impact that cable news has, which I guess 1331 01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:14,960 Speaker 1: was a good segue that I just provided there for us. 1332 01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:18,240 Speaker 1: Let's go and throw this piece from Bloomberg up on 1333 01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:20,960 Speaker 1: the screen there says what if Fox News viewers watch 1334 01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:24,080 Speaker 1: CNN instead. Previous studies have shown that partisan media affect 1335 01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:27,280 Speaker 1: how people vote. A new study shows they also affect 1336 01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:30,080 Speaker 1: how people think. So I'm going to give you some 1337 01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:34,960 Speaker 1: of the details. But the TLDR is that cable news matters. 1338 01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:38,599 Speaker 1: It really does shape public opinion and how people vote. 1339 01:10:39,040 --> 01:10:42,479 Speaker 1: But the good thing about that is that also means that, hey, 1340 01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:45,600 Speaker 1: people's minds can actually be changed if you have a 1341 01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:49,320 Speaker 1: better information ecosystem, and to me, that's a very positive thing. 1342 01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:52,880 Speaker 1: So here's the details of this study. What They basically 1343 01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:56,479 Speaker 1: did is they took people who were religious Fox News viewers, 1344 01:10:56,880 --> 01:10:59,720 Speaker 1: and they paid them to watch only CNN, and they 1345 01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:02,040 Speaker 1: liked an enforcement mechanism to make sure they weren't like 1346 01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:04,720 Speaker 1: sneaking in their Hannity on the side. And what they 1347 01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:07,920 Speaker 1: found is CNN and Fox covered different things during this 1348 01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:12,599 Speaker 1: happened in September twenty twenty, but the audience of committed 1349 01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:17,000 Speaker 1: Fox viewers, which started the month with conservative predispositions, they 1350 01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:20,680 Speaker 1: actually changed their minds on many issues. Switchers were five 1351 01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:23,160 Speaker 1: percentage points more likely to believe that people suffer from 1352 01:11:23,200 --> 01:11:25,880 Speaker 1: long COVID and six points more likely to believe many 1353 01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:27,840 Speaker 1: foreign countries did a better job than the US of 1354 01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:30,320 Speaker 1: controlling the virus. There were seven points more likely to 1355 01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:32,800 Speaker 1: support voting by mail. They were ten points less likely 1356 01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:35,200 Speaker 1: to believe that supporters of then candidate Joe Biden were 1357 01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:37,800 Speaker 1: happy when police officers got shot. There were eleven points 1358 01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:39,800 Speaker 1: less likely to say it's more important for the president 1359 01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:42,680 Speaker 1: to focus on containing violent protesters than on the coronavirus, 1360 01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:44,960 Speaker 1: and they are thirteen points less likely to agree that 1361 01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:47,240 Speaker 1: if Biden were elected, will see many more police get 1362 01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:50,200 Speaker 1: shot by Black lives matters and there were a couple 1363 01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:53,160 Speaker 1: of stories that broke during that time that basically Fox 1364 01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:55,080 Speaker 1: News sort of like memory Holden didn't talk about and 1365 01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:57,679 Speaker 1: CNN did, so they also showed awareness of those stories 1366 01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:00,479 Speaker 1: where the Fox News viewers didn't. One of the things 1367 01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:03,479 Speaker 1: that he says switchers changed their mind about was Fox 1368 01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:06,720 Speaker 1: News itself. They became more skeptical that Fox would cover 1369 01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:09,760 Speaker 1: a story that reflected poorly on Trump, even if it 1370 01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:12,400 Speaker 1: were true. I think that's actually really important because it 1371 01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:14,799 Speaker 1: reveals their eyes. I'm sure they still didn't love CNN 1372 01:12:14,920 --> 01:12:17,519 Speaker 1: like they saw CNN for the fraud it was, yeah, 1373 01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:20,000 Speaker 1: but it also opened their eyes to, oh, I'm being 1374 01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:26,759 Speaker 1: sold propaganda over here as well. Iglecius concludes by talking 1375 01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:31,519 Speaker 1: about how you know, Republican members of Congress and Republican elites, 1376 01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:34,799 Speaker 1: they will go on any platform to sell their message 1377 01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:38,800 Speaker 1: to the American people. And Iglecius, who's you know, center left. 1378 01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:41,040 Speaker 1: He basically makes the case we got to stop with 1379 01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:44,320 Speaker 1: this whole like, I can't believe that you're like validating 1380 01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:47,400 Speaker 1: or platforming by going on Tucker carlser and going wherever. 1381 01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:51,040 Speaker 1: Now you need to compete in all of the information 1382 01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:55,120 Speaker 1: ecosystem because in fact, people's minds can be changed, and 1383 01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:57,960 Speaker 1: they do actually take in the information that is being 1384 01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:00,720 Speaker 1: reported to them. So how do you feel about the 1385 01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:03,800 Speaker 1: various issues? And certainly we are not CNN or Fox 1386 01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:06,400 Speaker 1: News fans here, but I think the important part of 1387 01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:10,360 Speaker 1: this study is how much the media diet ultimately matters, 1388 01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:13,120 Speaker 1: and that the image that's been portrayed of the American 1389 01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:16,559 Speaker 1: public as just these like mindless robots who are totally 1390 01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:20,880 Speaker 1: partisan and never ever change their minds is also completely untrue. Yeah, 1391 01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:23,120 Speaker 1: it's fascinating. There's so much to say about this. Yeah, 1392 01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:25,200 Speaker 1: I think what it is is that number one is 1393 01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:28,160 Speaker 1: this is a bleak one. Cable news matters, and that's 1394 01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:31,599 Speaker 1: why he's saying why you should go on or talk 1395 01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:34,759 Speaker 1: to people. I was talking with some people over the weekend, 1396 01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:37,320 Speaker 1: and one of the most important things is that we 1397 01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:41,559 Speaker 1: have to understand is that old people predominantly watch cable 1398 01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:44,280 Speaker 1: and they derive an immense amount of their political belief 1399 01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:46,960 Speaker 1: from that. That's a flat fact. It is not changing 1400 01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:51,400 Speaker 1: anytime soon. And also old people vote. This is why cable. 1401 01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:54,479 Speaker 1: This is why if you're younger like me, you feel 1402 01:13:54,479 --> 01:13:56,680 Speaker 1: like you're living in a bizarre, oclown world because You're like, 1403 01:13:56,840 --> 01:14:00,000 Speaker 1: how can only ten million people watch cable news, and yeah, 1404 01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:03,560 Speaker 1: it rules our entire discourse. Well, the law of disproportionality 1405 01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:05,680 Speaker 1: is what impacts. If those people are the ones who 1406 01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:08,120 Speaker 1: are most likely to vote, especially in a party primary, 1407 01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:10,880 Speaker 1: then you can actually have ten million people who rule 1408 01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:13,160 Speaker 1: the entire country of three hundred and thirty five million. 1409 01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:16,400 Speaker 1: That's essentially the story. But also it goes to show 1410 01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:19,719 Speaker 1: that when candidates are running, and this is where Bernie 1411 01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:22,439 Speaker 1: Sanders took an immense amount of pushback for doing that 1412 01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:25,280 Speaker 1: Fox News town hall. If I recall, three million people 1413 01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:27,880 Speaker 1: watched it, an immense amount of people watched it, and 1414 01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:30,880 Speaker 1: Chris Wallace, you know, didn't pulling punches whenever he was 1415 01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:32,639 Speaker 1: doing it, and a lot of people got something out 1416 01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:35,040 Speaker 1: of it. Pete blutag Edge actually did the same thing. 1417 01:14:35,280 --> 01:14:37,679 Speaker 1: He would go on Fox News very often. I would 1418 01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:40,040 Speaker 1: say that Biden's problem is that he probably doesn't do 1419 01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:43,160 Speaker 1: enough of this. He should do many more interviews. Well, 1420 01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:44,920 Speaker 1: I don't know, for his own sake, maybe that's not true. 1421 01:14:44,960 --> 01:14:48,920 Speaker 1: But let's say Obama. Okay, Obama very famously declared war 1422 01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:50,840 Speaker 1: on Fox News in two thousand and nine. They said, 1423 01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:53,120 Speaker 1: this is not a legitimate news organization. They tried to 1424 01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:54,880 Speaker 1: push them out of the White House Press Corps, they 1425 01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:57,000 Speaker 1: tried to make it so that they weren't giving interviews, 1426 01:14:57,320 --> 01:14:59,559 Speaker 1: and ultimately they had to cave and do an interview 1427 01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:02,400 Speaker 1: with Bill during the Super Bowl. And the reason why 1428 01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:05,080 Speaker 1: was because they had to understand that even at that time, 1429 01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:08,240 Speaker 1: I mean, millions and millions and millions of people, especially 1430 01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:11,040 Speaker 1: those who are most politically engaged, watched it. So on 1431 01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:14,120 Speaker 1: the one hand, it's an important lesson for politicians, but 1432 01:15:14,280 --> 01:15:16,360 Speaker 1: on the other it just shows us a very pathetic 1433 01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:19,439 Speaker 1: reality that so many millions of people just derive not 1434 01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:22,560 Speaker 1: their just political opinions, but their entire worldview from the 1435 01:15:22,680 --> 01:15:26,439 Speaker 1: programming decisions of these three networks. Have you think of 1436 01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:29,599 Speaker 1: a more destructive oligopoly in the history of the United States? 1437 01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:34,840 Speaker 1: At least in the past we had decentralized news. Yes, 1438 01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,600 Speaker 1: the Hearst papers and all of that, and I'm not 1439 01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:40,760 Speaker 1: saying they didn't cause damage, but you were exposed to 1440 01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:44,200 Speaker 1: such a wide array of opinion in the yellow journalism 1441 01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:46,920 Speaker 1: era with all these different papers and opinions and all 1442 01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:49,880 Speaker 1: this stuff going on. Right now, it is controlled by 1443 01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:53,080 Speaker 1: three news organizations who are all based in New York 1444 01:15:53,160 --> 01:15:56,040 Speaker 1: City and who a lot of them work together or 1445 01:15:56,479 --> 01:15:59,559 Speaker 1: work in their own controlled ecosystem. That's not a good 1446 01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:02,799 Speaker 1: place for this country. I am. I'm kind of hopeful 1447 01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:04,400 Speaker 1: right now, though, I have to be honest with you, 1448 01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:07,760 Speaker 1: because what this shows is you have to have a 1449 01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:11,240 Speaker 1: new mainstream. You have to have a different media ecosystem 1450 01:16:11,320 --> 01:16:14,479 Speaker 1: that has different incentives, because the incentive like cable news, 1451 01:16:14,600 --> 01:16:16,320 Speaker 1: is never going to be better than it is. It's 1452 01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:21,160 Speaker 1: a profit making venture driven by advertising dollars with a 1453 01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:25,080 Speaker 1: bunch of people, or completely captured by DC bubble culture, 1454 01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:29,080 Speaker 1: either of the liberal variety or of the conservative variety. 1455 01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:33,280 Speaker 1: That ain't changing. But what is changing is the amount 1456 01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:38,280 Speaker 1: of options that you have that are wildly superior to 1457 01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:42,800 Speaker 1: what these people are ultimately doing. And while yes, it 1458 01:16:43,080 --> 01:16:48,639 Speaker 1: is a definite fact that you have older generations which 1459 01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:51,559 Speaker 1: disproportionally watch cable news, their average consumer is really old, 1460 01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:53,639 Speaker 1: and sometimes you make fun of that, but that gives 1461 01:16:53,680 --> 01:16:58,120 Speaker 1: them disproportion of political power. On the other hand, rising 1462 01:16:58,200 --> 01:17:02,240 Speaker 1: generations watching this crap, They're not watching it at all. 1463 01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:05,479 Speaker 1: Those Amazon workers who just voted to union ed, they 1464 01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:08,360 Speaker 1: were watching this crap. They were watching TikTok from the 1465 01:17:08,439 --> 01:17:11,040 Speaker 1: Amazon Labor Union. I know Christian mentioned to me a 1466 01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:14,120 Speaker 1: lot of them watched Rogan, which is interesting for those 1467 01:17:14,160 --> 01:17:16,400 Speaker 1: of you who you know, think that Rogan is like 1468 01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:19,680 Speaker 1: ushering in an era of total right wing government or 1469 01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:22,920 Speaker 1: whatever you think it is that he's doing. So, you know, 1470 01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:27,599 Speaker 1: there is an opportunity here to create a much better 1471 01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:32,120 Speaker 1: media ecosystem and information ecosystem. And what this study shows 1472 01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:34,519 Speaker 1: is that if you do that, there is hope because 1473 01:17:34,560 --> 01:17:36,720 Speaker 1: people change their minds, they change their views. We've seen 1474 01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:39,800 Speaker 1: it here. You know, I think our union coverage to 1475 01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:42,160 Speaker 1: sort of like tootor our own horn, I think it 1476 01:17:42,200 --> 01:17:44,400 Speaker 1: has changed a lot of minds, and it's because we 1477 01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:46,360 Speaker 1: aren't just preaching to the choir, because we do have 1478 01:17:46,439 --> 01:17:50,560 Speaker 1: an ideologically diverse audience that you know, listens to what 1479 01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:54,160 Speaker 1: we have to say and considers whether they might agree 1480 01:17:54,200 --> 01:17:55,960 Speaker 1: with some of the things that we're bringing to the table. 1481 01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:58,000 Speaker 1: And so we've seen the way that the response to 1482 01:17:58,120 --> 01:18:02,800 Speaker 1: our union segments and segments has grown and interest has increased. 1483 01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:06,439 Speaker 1: So it just again demonstrates the fact that you know, 1484 01:18:06,680 --> 01:18:10,760 Speaker 1: people are open minded, they do think things through, they 1485 01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:13,360 Speaker 1: can have their minds changed, but you have to actually 1486 01:18:13,479 --> 01:18:16,479 Speaker 1: have the information in front of them, and so the 1487 01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:19,120 Speaker 1: union movement is a perfect case in point. There was 1488 01:18:19,240 --> 01:18:22,200 Speaker 1: some coverage extraordinarily, which is very rare of some of 1489 01:18:22,280 --> 01:18:25,400 Speaker 1: the strikes that unfolded this year, but like this Amazon 1490 01:18:25,479 --> 01:18:29,559 Speaker 1: effort on cable news, completely invisible, completely buried. Even though 1491 01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:34,000 Speaker 1: this is the most extraordinary labor victory that we've had 1492 01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:36,639 Speaker 1: since the thirties. The Starbucks workers, they've gotten a little 1493 01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:39,120 Speaker 1: bit of coverage, but again, this is an incredibly like 1494 01:18:39,720 --> 01:18:43,240 Speaker 1: turning point for the labor movement, and if you're watching CNN, 1495 01:18:43,400 --> 01:18:47,320 Speaker 1: Fox or MSNBC, you barely even know that it's happening whatsoever. Well, 1496 01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:49,679 Speaker 1: there's a class element to this in terms of Christian 1497 01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:52,360 Speaker 1: Let's just be honest. I think a lot of people 1498 01:18:52,560 --> 01:18:56,240 Speaker 1: who discriminate against him, both cable news bookers, AOC and others, 1499 01:18:56,320 --> 01:19:00,240 Speaker 1: simply because he's not a polished union organizer boss from 1500 01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:02,920 Speaker 1: big labor. I think that's true. I also think it's 1501 01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:05,280 Speaker 1: true in terms of the new form of media. I mean, 1502 01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:07,920 Speaker 1: the number one way they like to denigrate somebody quoted 1503 01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:09,639 Speaker 1: me in The Atlantic over the weekend, and of course 1504 01:19:09,680 --> 01:19:14,240 Speaker 1: every single time podcaster Sager and Jetty Okay, I mean sure, 1505 01:19:14,560 --> 01:19:18,360 Speaker 1: that's true, but they use this terminology and I've come 1506 01:19:18,400 --> 01:19:20,960 Speaker 1: to embrace it of you know, they try to denigrate you. 1507 01:19:21,040 --> 01:19:23,400 Speaker 1: Would they refer to Margaret Brandon or somebody who has 1508 01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:26,680 Speaker 1: a similar size audience in that way. No, not at all. 1509 01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:28,560 Speaker 1: They refer to them as a news host over some 1510 01:19:28,720 --> 01:19:31,760 Speaker 1: sort of more neutral language. That's fine, but it just 1511 01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:35,160 Speaker 1: goes to show you again that there is a denigration 1512 01:19:35,400 --> 01:19:37,040 Speaker 1: of the form of media that you and I are 1513 01:19:37,160 --> 01:19:39,800 Speaker 1: participating in right now. I mean, one of the ways 1514 01:19:39,840 --> 01:19:42,880 Speaker 1: they've come after us in the past. YouTubers Crystal Ball 1515 01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:46,640 Speaker 1: and soccer podcast is like one notch above. YouTuber is 1516 01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:52,360 Speaker 1: even more like right, totally irrelevant, exactly like oh YouTube, YouTube, 1517 01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:55,479 Speaker 1: and it's like, well, no, actually millions of people watch YouTube, 1518 01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:58,000 Speaker 1: And is there a real substance of difference between somebody's 1519 01:19:58,000 --> 01:20:00,519 Speaker 1: watching YouTube and cable. The answer is yes, the YouTube 1520 01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:03,679 Speaker 1: viewer is actually ten times more engaged than something crypts 1521 01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:06,400 Speaker 1: of crap that's on in the background. But that's a 1522 01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:09,519 Speaker 1: deeper conversation. More, what I'm talking about is that the 1523 01:20:09,640 --> 01:20:12,320 Speaker 1: form of media that we all consume in rogan as 1524 01:20:12,360 --> 01:20:16,320 Speaker 1: well for entertainment, you know, even this or even comedy 1525 01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:20,439 Speaker 1: on YouTube news on YouTube, even on Instagram, TikTok or whatever. 1526 01:20:20,760 --> 01:20:24,000 Speaker 1: They're meant to denigrate it as not a legitimate source 1527 01:20:24,280 --> 01:20:26,680 Speaker 1: of information. Instagram. There's another one, right, which is that 1528 01:20:27,080 --> 01:20:29,680 Speaker 1: you can find and I've done this, the amount of 1529 01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:32,400 Speaker 1: health information that I find on Instagram. You gotta be 1530 01:20:32,439 --> 01:20:35,519 Speaker 1: careful in terms of what you wait into and what 1531 01:20:35,600 --> 01:20:37,920 Speaker 1: you don't. But you know, I've lost like twelve pounds 1532 01:20:37,960 --> 01:20:40,360 Speaker 1: so far this year. It's because of Instagram and YouTube 1533 01:20:40,439 --> 01:20:44,280 Speaker 1: and Reddit. I mean, that's honest, but that doesn't sound legitimate. 1534 01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:47,040 Speaker 1: It sounds cringe even whenever I talk about it. That's 1535 01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:50,000 Speaker 1: the point, which is that even though vast majorities of 1536 01:20:50,040 --> 01:20:53,400 Speaker 1: people consume information and get information this way, the mainstream 1537 01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:56,360 Speaker 1: has this elite cachet which we're slowly trying to change 1538 01:20:56,400 --> 01:20:59,320 Speaker 1: and destroy here by the work that we do. And 1539 01:20:59,479 --> 01:21:02,160 Speaker 1: that is where where breaking through that and creating the 1540 01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:04,719 Speaker 1: new mainstream is probably the single most important political project 1541 01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:07,599 Speaker 1: of our lifetime that I think is really really key. 1542 01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:10,719 Speaker 1: And look, the bottom line is because of the incidence structure, 1543 01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:13,040 Speaker 1: because of the way that system is set up, they're 1544 01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:14,960 Speaker 1: just not very good at their jobs. They miss things 1545 01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:17,519 Speaker 1: that are really important. They have tremendous blind spots. They 1546 01:21:17,600 --> 01:21:20,960 Speaker 1: all obviously have complete ideological blind spots and capture, and 1547 01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:24,120 Speaker 1: that means that they are not actually informing you in 1548 01:21:24,200 --> 01:21:26,799 Speaker 1: the way that you need to be informed to conduct 1549 01:21:26,840 --> 01:21:30,320 Speaker 1: yourself as a citizen in this country and really understand 1550 01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:32,640 Speaker 1: what is going on around you. So that is a 1551 01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:34,360 Speaker 1: fight that you will continue to hear more about. And 1552 01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:37,679 Speaker 1: it is also a perfect segue to the newest cable 1553 01:21:37,720 --> 01:21:41,839 Speaker 1: news star who is upcoming, and that would be Jensaki. 1554 01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:44,960 Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and put Sarah Fisher's report from Axios there. 1555 01:21:45,160 --> 01:21:48,360 Speaker 1: So she says that Jensaki will host a show for 1556 01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:54,000 Speaker 1: MSNBC on nbc universal streaming platform Peacock. She will also 1557 01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:57,760 Speaker 1: be part of live programming on MSNBC's cable network as 1558 01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:00,320 Speaker 1: a voice on different shows, but she will not be 1559 01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:03,479 Speaker 1: hosting the nine pm hour, replacing Rachel Mattow, which has 1560 01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:07,439 Speaker 1: been speculated also, I thought this is kind of interesting. 1561 01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:10,439 Speaker 1: In the report, it mentions that NBC News in particular, 1562 01:22:10,479 --> 01:22:13,280 Speaker 1: are several outlets for talent looking to host there on programs. 1563 01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:16,760 Speaker 1: In addition to Peacock, it also has a twenty four 1564 01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:19,840 Speaker 1: to seven news streaming network called NBC News Now, which 1565 01:22:19,880 --> 01:22:21,960 Speaker 1: I've literally never heard of it. Yeah, it's one of 1566 01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:25,120 Speaker 1: those projects like on YouTube where they go twenty four hours. 1567 01:22:25,160 --> 01:22:28,120 Speaker 1: I think ABC News does this as well. Look, all 1568 01:22:28,200 --> 01:22:31,240 Speaker 1: of these guys are pivoting to streaming and doing this. 1569 01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:34,400 Speaker 1: I just think this is remarkable, which is that Jensaki, 1570 01:22:34,520 --> 01:22:37,240 Speaker 1: while she's the sitting White House Press Secretary, is having 1571 01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:40,080 Speaker 1: advanced negotiations in order to take a job and get 1572 01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:43,200 Speaker 1: paid really good money, probably much more money than she's 1573 01:22:43,200 --> 01:22:45,759 Speaker 1: getting paid at the White House, and while she continues 1574 01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:48,519 Speaker 1: to be the chief spokesperson for the president of the 1575 01:22:48,640 --> 01:22:51,360 Speaker 1: United States. I think that's corrupt. You assume me if 1576 01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:53,280 Speaker 1: you want to. I also thought it was corrupt and 1577 01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:56,800 Speaker 1: bad when Sarah Huckabee Sanders and Kaylee Mcanenni immediately signed 1578 01:22:56,840 --> 01:22:59,160 Speaker 1: with Fox News the day after or whatever that they 1579 01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:02,439 Speaker 1: leave the White House. Same with Ari Fleischer, Dana Perino, 1580 01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:07,320 Speaker 1: all this other madness. George Stephanopvlis Sanders also who in 1581 01:23:07,479 --> 01:23:10,839 Speaker 1: media doesn't formerly work as a spokesperson for the government. 1582 01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:13,640 Speaker 1: That's a problem. I think it's a big problem in 1583 01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:17,080 Speaker 1: terms of your ability to be objective. And this though, 1584 01:23:17,640 --> 01:23:20,360 Speaker 1: is such across the line, as in not even waiting 1585 01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:23,280 Speaker 1: until you leave in order to negotiate that. Even the 1586 01:23:23,400 --> 01:23:27,719 Speaker 1: paid mouthpieces in the press corps, including the Kristen Welker 1587 01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:30,720 Speaker 1: at NBC, We're like, come on now, how can you 1588 01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:34,320 Speaker 1: be negotiating deals while you are the spokesperson for the 1589 01:23:34,439 --> 01:23:37,040 Speaker 1: President of the United States. Let's take a listen to 1590 01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:39,880 Speaker 1: this little mashup we put together. Is it ethical for 1591 01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:47,920 Speaker 1: you to continue conducting this job while negotiating with the media. Well, 1592 01:23:48,640 --> 01:23:52,040 Speaker 1: I have always gone over and above the stringent ethical 1593 01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:55,280 Speaker 1: and legal requirements of the Biden administration, and I take 1594 01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:59,400 Speaker 1: that very seriously and as a standard for every employee 1595 01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:02,120 Speaker 1: of the White House. I have received rigorous ethics counseling, 1596 01:24:02,479 --> 01:24:07,879 Speaker 1: including as it relates to any future employment. Given the reports, 1597 01:24:08,040 --> 01:24:10,760 Speaker 1: which have now been confirmed by multiple media outlets, How 1598 01:24:10,840 --> 01:24:13,920 Speaker 1: can you continue to be an effective Rea if you do, 1599 01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:18,000 Speaker 1: with fact have plans to join a media outlet. Well, 1600 01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:21,560 Speaker 1: I have nothing again to announce about any conversations or 1601 01:24:21,680 --> 01:24:25,280 Speaker 1: any future plans, And at whatever time I leave the 1602 01:24:25,320 --> 01:24:27,479 Speaker 1: White House, I can promise you the first thing I'm 1603 01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:29,840 Speaker 1: going to do is sleep and spend time with my 1604 01:24:29,960 --> 01:24:32,599 Speaker 1: three and six year old. Who are what you're saying? 1605 01:24:32,680 --> 01:24:35,200 Speaker 1: But I guess the question is how is it ethical 1606 01:24:35,479 --> 01:24:38,839 Speaker 1: to have these conversations with media outlets while you continue 1607 01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:41,760 Speaker 1: to have a job standing behind that video? Well, there 1608 01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:45,040 Speaker 1: are a range of stringent ethical and legal requirements that 1609 01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:49,160 Speaker 1: are imposed on everybody in this administration and many administrations past, 1610 01:24:49,240 --> 01:24:53,560 Speaker 1: about any conversations you're having with future employers. That is 1611 01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:56,560 Speaker 1: at the policy of this White House to allow staffers 1612 01:24:56,600 --> 01:25:01,200 Speaker 1: to have discussions, even if indirectly, with institutions that impact 1613 01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:04,600 Speaker 1: and affect their jobs. And your job here, well, it 1614 01:25:04,760 --> 01:25:06,560 Speaker 1: is the policy of this White House to ensure that 1615 01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:10,640 Speaker 1: anyone who is having conversations about future employment does so 1616 01:25:10,920 --> 01:25:14,960 Speaker 1: through consultation with the White House Counsel's Office and ensuring 1617 01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:18,680 Speaker 1: they abide by any ethics and legal requirements. And those 1618 01:25:18,720 --> 01:25:22,719 Speaker 1: are conversations that I have taken very seriously and abided 1619 01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:25,240 Speaker 1: by every component of so as you can see, even 1620 01:25:25,320 --> 01:25:27,360 Speaker 1: the lapdogs in the press corps we're like, hey, this 1621 01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:29,240 Speaker 1: is a little screwed up here. I don't know if 1622 01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:32,360 Speaker 1: I can get behind it. I think it's extraordinarily corrupt 1623 01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:34,920 Speaker 1: in order to have this revolving door with the media. 1624 01:25:35,080 --> 01:25:38,439 Speaker 1: It's outrageous, especially because she plans on staying the White 1625 01:25:38,439 --> 01:25:41,120 Speaker 1: House Press Secretary for a good month or so and 1626 01:25:41,240 --> 01:25:44,719 Speaker 1: has a guaranteed salary. It's not even legal for people 1627 01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:46,840 Speaker 1: to do this whenever it comes to lobbying. I think 1628 01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:50,400 Speaker 1: it's insane that it is allowed to on the media side. 1629 01:25:50,439 --> 01:25:52,280 Speaker 1: But at the same time, look, this is why the 1630 01:25:52,360 --> 01:25:54,280 Speaker 1: incentives are the way they are. They're never going to 1631 01:25:54,320 --> 01:25:56,640 Speaker 1: actually give it to the press whenever they want to 1632 01:25:56,680 --> 01:25:58,880 Speaker 1: go and work in the press. In the absence, it's 1633 01:25:58,960 --> 01:26:00,800 Speaker 1: just a total fusion. And if you want to know 1634 01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:03,160 Speaker 1: what state TV looks like, it looks like this, it 1635 01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:05,680 Speaker 1: looks like Fox, it looks like CNN. That's it, and 1636 01:26:05,880 --> 01:26:08,120 Speaker 1: they see it. Listen. I'm glad they pushed back on her, 1637 01:26:08,200 --> 01:26:10,160 Speaker 1: but you know, if this was coming out of the 1638 01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:14,640 Speaker 1: Trump White House, it'd be hair on fire. You know, 1639 01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:18,120 Speaker 1: we totally melted down and be leading cable news broadcast 1640 01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:21,280 Speaker 1: every night. So it's a very selective sort of outrage 1641 01:26:21,280 --> 01:26:23,840 Speaker 1: around these things. And ultimately you can understand why Jen 1642 01:26:24,040 --> 01:26:27,440 Speaker 1: Saki did this, because, yeah, she'll take a few uncomfortable 1643 01:26:27,640 --> 01:26:30,320 Speaker 1: questions here in the cross briefing, and then she'll go 1644 01:26:30,479 --> 01:26:33,880 Speaker 1: on to make her millions watching you know, hosting a 1645 01:26:33,920 --> 01:26:36,680 Speaker 1: streaming show that literally no one watches. Yeah, look, but 1646 01:26:37,320 --> 01:26:40,240 Speaker 1: we will capitalism correct, will the free market be at work? 1647 01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:42,519 Speaker 1: They'll never actually tell us what the real numbers are, 1648 01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:45,559 Speaker 1: but never Also, the idea for the show is circle back. 1649 01:26:45,960 --> 01:26:48,280 Speaker 1: That's what That's what I've It's not real, but I'm 1650 01:26:48,320 --> 01:26:51,080 Speaker 1: saying that's the meme online. Everyone's like, everyone should call 1651 01:26:51,120 --> 01:26:53,759 Speaker 1: it circle back with Jensake because she never actually answers 1652 01:26:53,760 --> 01:26:55,640 Speaker 1: the question. They really might do that. They actually might 1653 01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:57,960 Speaker 1: do it, that's right. I mean, they're cringe enough that 1654 01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:03,719 Speaker 1: they could make the meme a reality. All right, Sager, 1655 01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:05,240 Speaker 1: what are you looking at as a war going on 1656 01:27:05,400 --> 01:27:07,880 Speaker 1: right now? Journalists have been killed in Ukraine. My own 1657 01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:10,400 Speaker 1: friend from my White House Press days, Trey Yangston Fox News, 1658 01:27:10,640 --> 01:27:14,120 Speaker 1: literally had his colleague killed during shelling in Kiev. Heroes 1659 01:27:14,160 --> 01:27:16,200 Speaker 1: are being detained in Russia for standing up to their 1660 01:27:16,240 --> 01:27:19,080 Speaker 1: government and for telling the truth. Burmese journalists, of course, 1661 01:27:19,080 --> 01:27:21,560 Speaker 1: are in prison. You probably have barely even heard of 1662 01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:24,320 Speaker 1: many of these instances, or of actual journalists who are 1663 01:27:24,360 --> 01:27:26,560 Speaker 1: risking their lives in war zones. But what do you 1664 01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:29,280 Speaker 1: think the story in the US media is. It's not 1665 01:27:29,439 --> 01:27:33,320 Speaker 1: these heroes. Instead, Meet the Press, the flagship political program 1666 01:27:33,439 --> 01:27:37,400 Speaker 1: of NBC News a household name identified with politics chose 1667 01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:42,040 Speaker 1: instead to focus its time on quote online harassment that 1668 01:27:42,200 --> 01:27:45,160 Speaker 1: some journalists face. One of those people who was spotlighted 1669 01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:47,719 Speaker 1: is the Washington Post and formerly the New York Times, 1670 01:27:47,800 --> 01:27:51,120 Speaker 1: is Taylor Lorenz. Let's watch the segment that's right. Check 1671 01:27:51,160 --> 01:27:53,520 Speaker 1: and you know, before this was all sort of anecdotal, 1672 01:27:53,560 --> 01:27:55,800 Speaker 1: but now we have hard data. I mean, this is 1673 01:27:55,840 --> 01:27:58,680 Speaker 1: one of the biggest issues facing female journalists right now, 1674 01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:01,920 Speaker 1: and an unprecedented is giving us a closer look at 1675 01:28:02,120 --> 01:28:05,280 Speaker 1: just how some of those online attacks against female journalists 1676 01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:07,960 Speaker 1: are actually getting started and what it looks like for 1677 01:28:08,080 --> 01:28:10,360 Speaker 1: those who are on the receiving end. But a warning 1678 01:28:10,400 --> 01:28:12,280 Speaker 1: to our viewers, some of the language you hear in 1679 01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:17,160 Speaker 1: this report, it may be disturbing. Female reporters are often 1680 01:28:17,280 --> 01:28:19,679 Speaker 1: at the center of the bulls eye wels. Taylor Lorenz 1681 01:28:19,800 --> 01:28:22,599 Speaker 1: is a columnist for the Washington Post and was targeted 1682 01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:25,120 Speaker 1: nearly one year ago in a segment on Fox News. 1683 01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:28,920 Speaker 1: She's at the very top of journalism's repulsive little food chain, 1684 01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:32,240 Speaker 1: host Tucker Carlson mocking her after she called for an 1685 01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:35,960 Speaker 1: end to online harassment. Now she's at the center of 1686 01:28:36,040 --> 01:28:39,479 Speaker 1: a new study by NYU researchers among the first to 1687 01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:44,600 Speaker 1: actually quantify online hate against female journalists. This is the 1688 01:28:44,760 --> 01:28:47,800 Speaker 1: moment that Carlson aired that segment. Yes, we see this 1689 01:28:47,920 --> 01:28:52,240 Speaker 1: really dramatic rise. Using large scale data to measure online language, 1690 01:28:52,479 --> 01:28:55,719 Speaker 1: they tracked violent and threatening tweets directed at two female 1691 01:28:55,800 --> 01:29:00,760 Speaker 1: journalists after being targeted by two male media figures. Researchers 1692 01:29:00,840 --> 01:29:03,280 Speaker 1: found that attacks against Lorenz went up as much as 1693 01:29:03,320 --> 01:29:06,599 Speaker 1: one hundred and forty four percent after just one Twitter 1694 01:29:06,680 --> 01:29:10,120 Speaker 1: thread for another journalist, they went up sixty five percent 1695 01:29:10,720 --> 01:29:14,680 Speaker 1: every single social tie. I had severe PTSD from this. 1696 01:29:15,120 --> 01:29:18,640 Speaker 1: I contemplated suicide. It got really bad. You feel like 1697 01:29:18,800 --> 01:29:22,560 Speaker 1: any little piece of information that gets out on you 1698 01:29:22,680 --> 01:29:24,960 Speaker 1: will be used by the worst people on the internet 1699 01:29:25,080 --> 01:29:30,800 Speaker 1: to destroy your life. And it's so isolating and terrifying. 1700 01:29:31,479 --> 01:29:35,120 Speaker 1: It's horrifying. All right, there's a lot to say about this. 1701 01:29:35,439 --> 01:29:38,200 Speaker 1: At the top of the most obvious, I genuinely feel 1702 01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:40,280 Speaker 1: very bad for both of them. It sucks to be 1703 01:29:40,360 --> 01:29:43,160 Speaker 1: tarted online. It's clear that she suffered mental distress over that, 1704 01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:46,280 Speaker 1: and that's really awful. Now that being said, let's discuss 1705 01:29:46,320 --> 01:29:48,560 Speaker 1: the tone and the actual allegations of the segment. That 1706 01:29:48,720 --> 01:29:51,160 Speaker 1: means that things said online are somehow the fault of 1707 01:29:51,240 --> 01:29:55,479 Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson for literally saying Lorenz's full name on the air, 1708 01:29:55,920 --> 01:29:59,160 Speaker 1: and it's on Glenn Greenwald for tweeting criticism of her work, 1709 01:29:59,520 --> 01:30:02,080 Speaker 1: which means means that what NBC News is saying and 1710 01:30:02,160 --> 01:30:04,880 Speaker 1: what Taylor Lorenz are saying, what the segment really means 1711 01:30:05,160 --> 01:30:08,040 Speaker 1: is they are not allowed to be criticized in any way. 1712 01:30:08,560 --> 01:30:11,880 Speaker 1: That is why this segment is emotional blackmail and manipulative. 1713 01:30:12,280 --> 01:30:14,920 Speaker 1: I feel bad for all women online who have suffered 1714 01:30:14,960 --> 01:30:18,160 Speaker 1: harsh criticism, but the clear point of this report is 1715 01:30:18,200 --> 01:30:21,320 Speaker 1: simply to say that criticizing them is out of bounds 1716 01:30:21,439 --> 01:30:24,439 Speaker 1: forever and for people who are reporters and to interact 1717 01:30:24,479 --> 01:30:28,320 Speaker 1: with the public square, that is an obviously ludicrous standard. 1718 01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:30,760 Speaker 1: As friend of the show Glenn Greenweald responded in his 1719 01:30:30,800 --> 01:30:34,479 Speaker 1: substat quote, your top priority is the emotional comfort of 1720 01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:39,439 Speaker 1: the most powerful elites, which you fulfill by never criticizing them. 1721 01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:43,080 Speaker 1: He adds, corporate journalists have license to use their huge 1722 01:30:43,160 --> 01:30:47,519 Speaker 1: platforms to malign, expose, and destroy anyone their want. Your 1723 01:30:47,680 --> 01:30:51,120 Speaker 1: moral duty is to sit in respectful silence and never object. 1724 01:30:51,600 --> 01:30:54,759 Speaker 1: That's the point by the Taylor Lorentz standard, you're directing 1725 01:30:54,800 --> 01:30:57,280 Speaker 1: harassment towards her if you say her name on the air. 1726 01:30:57,560 --> 01:30:59,840 Speaker 1: And the sad part for Taylor is this you have 1727 01:31:00,200 --> 01:31:03,280 Speaker 1: nobody but yourself to blame. A maxim I have learned 1728 01:31:03,360 --> 01:31:05,960 Speaker 1: making a career on the Internet is this you get 1729 01:31:06,040 --> 01:31:08,679 Speaker 1: back what you put out into the world. If you try, 1730 01:31:08,800 --> 01:31:11,120 Speaker 1: as we do, to put out as much content as possible, 1731 01:31:11,360 --> 01:31:13,800 Speaker 1: focused on a mission of making people hate each other less, 1732 01:31:13,960 --> 01:31:15,680 Speaker 1: then most of what you're going to get back is 1733 01:31:15,760 --> 01:31:18,519 Speaker 1: going to be positive, which it is overwhelmingly. But if 1734 01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:21,760 Speaker 1: you try and cancel people, ruin their lives, spread false 1735 01:31:21,880 --> 01:31:25,200 Speaker 1: rumors and lies, paint yourself as a victim every chance 1736 01:31:25,280 --> 01:31:28,439 Speaker 1: you get, I'm sorry to say, you are reaping' exactly 1737 01:31:28,520 --> 01:31:32,600 Speaker 1: what you sew. Let's review Lorenzo's record, shall we. This 1738 01:31:32,760 --> 01:31:35,760 Speaker 1: is the person who falsely acued venture capitalist Mark Andresen 1739 01:31:35,880 --> 01:31:38,320 Speaker 1: of saying the R word on Clubhouse. She then refused 1740 01:31:38,360 --> 01:31:40,840 Speaker 1: to acknowledge her slander until forty eight hours later, when 1741 01:31:40,840 --> 01:31:43,280 Speaker 1: her bosses forced her to apologize. This is a person 1742 01:31:43,360 --> 01:31:46,080 Speaker 1: who literally ruined the life of a young female influencer 1743 01:31:46,200 --> 01:31:49,599 Speaker 1: girl with no job because her mother, yes her mother, 1744 01:31:50,080 --> 01:31:53,280 Speaker 1: not her was a prominent anti Muslim activist. This is 1745 01:31:53,320 --> 01:31:57,160 Speaker 1: a person who attempted to destroy mister Beast years ago 1746 01:31:57,520 --> 01:32:00,280 Speaker 1: because he said a bad word when he was a 1747 01:32:00,439 --> 01:32:04,920 Speaker 1: freaking teenager. She cheers cancelation attempts. She was part of 1748 01:32:04,960 --> 01:32:06,840 Speaker 1: the New York Times staff who claimed that black New 1749 01:32:06,920 --> 01:32:09,160 Speaker 1: York Times staffers were put in danger because of a 1750 01:32:09,240 --> 01:32:12,439 Speaker 1: Tom Cotton aped during the BLM protest. This is a 1751 01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:16,000 Speaker 1: person who, even after her own outlet stuck up for her, 1752 01:32:16,400 --> 01:32:19,240 Speaker 1: trashed The New York Times on her way out because 1753 01:32:19,280 --> 01:32:22,720 Speaker 1: senior staffers within the paper had the audacity to tell 1754 01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:26,519 Speaker 1: her she was acting unprofessionally, tarnishing the brand and needed 1755 01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:29,400 Speaker 1: to grow up. This is a person. Just to show 1756 01:32:29,400 --> 01:32:33,680 Speaker 1: you how pathologically sociopathic she is, went after Meet the 1757 01:32:33,760 --> 01:32:38,120 Speaker 1: Press even after that segment aired, despite their little sob story, 1758 01:32:38,560 --> 01:32:42,680 Speaker 1: for having the audacity to reach out to Glenn Greenwald 1759 01:32:42,920 --> 01:32:45,760 Speaker 1: to ask him to respond to the allegation that he 1760 01:32:45,960 --> 01:32:48,519 Speaker 1: was responsible for harassment against her. That is the most 1761 01:32:48,600 --> 01:32:52,880 Speaker 1: basic of all basic journalistic practices. She demands you air 1762 01:32:53,000 --> 01:32:57,639 Speaker 1: her propaganda free from any perspective except her own. That's 1763 01:32:57,680 --> 01:33:00,640 Speaker 1: the problem. And just so you know, here's a Greenwald 1764 01:33:00,680 --> 01:33:04,720 Speaker 1: wrote to Everyday employees of large media corporations such as 1765 01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:08,160 Speaker 1: NBC insult post insults and attacks which target me in 1766 01:33:08,240 --> 01:33:11,280 Speaker 1: my journalism and me personally, often resulting in vile and 1767 01:33:11,320 --> 01:33:15,479 Speaker 1: bigoted attacks against me based in homophobia, anti Semitism, and 1768 01:33:15,560 --> 01:33:18,040 Speaker 1: the nature of my interracial marriage in my family. But 1769 01:33:18,120 --> 01:33:20,280 Speaker 1: I don't whine about it or try to claim that 1770 01:33:20,439 --> 01:33:24,080 Speaker 1: nobody can criticize my work, because I understand that those 1771 01:33:24,120 --> 01:33:27,799 Speaker 1: who seek out large and influential journalistic platform that affect 1772 01:33:27,880 --> 01:33:32,799 Speaker 1: people's lives are fair game for criticism. He continues, perhaps 1773 01:33:32,960 --> 01:33:36,919 Speaker 1: influential employees of the largest media outlets, such as Taylor Lorenz, 1774 01:33:37,160 --> 01:33:40,000 Speaker 1: will one day come to a similar realization that being 1775 01:33:40,080 --> 01:33:42,759 Speaker 1: a front page reporter for the largest and most influential 1776 01:33:42,840 --> 01:33:46,280 Speaker 1: news outlets makes you fair game for critique. He ends 1777 01:33:46,360 --> 01:33:50,040 Speaker 1: it this way, as a member of various marginalized groups, 1778 01:33:50,400 --> 01:33:54,200 Speaker 1: I don't want or accept some special immunity shield against 1779 01:33:54,240 --> 01:33:58,840 Speaker 1: being criticized. No journalists with any dignity or worth should 1780 01:33:58,880 --> 01:34:01,600 Speaker 1: want that. Either. The man has away with words, doesn't he? 1781 01:34:02,120 --> 01:34:04,080 Speaker 1: All of this matters for the battle of the future. 1782 01:34:04,240 --> 01:34:06,760 Speaker 1: As CNN plus fades from memory in its first week, 1783 01:34:06,960 --> 01:34:09,600 Speaker 1: the people like Lorenz and the sociopaths who staff the 1784 01:34:09,640 --> 01:34:12,040 Speaker 1: biggest newsrooms will make it so that those of us 1785 01:34:12,120 --> 01:34:16,560 Speaker 1: on the outside of the power structure are to be condemned, canceled, destroyed, 1786 01:34:16,840 --> 01:34:21,479 Speaker 1: targeted for having the audacity of pointing out their faults. 1787 01:34:22,080 --> 01:34:24,120 Speaker 1: All of this is a part of a broader power 1788 01:34:24,160 --> 01:34:26,840 Speaker 1: struggle to set the terms of debate, to make her 1789 01:34:26,960 --> 01:34:30,080 Speaker 1: and her ilk immune from criticism, and to imbue them 1790 01:34:30,439 --> 01:34:33,280 Speaker 1: with the eternal power to take us out. And we 1791 01:34:33,439 --> 01:34:36,559 Speaker 1: can't say a word, don't be fooled. As much as 1792 01:34:36,600 --> 01:34:39,320 Speaker 1: she was widely mocked and ridiculed over the last several years, 1793 01:34:39,560 --> 01:34:42,360 Speaker 1: the overwhelming majority of those in media sphere are either 1794 01:34:42,439 --> 01:34:44,400 Speaker 1: on her side or they are too cowardly to say 1795 01:34:44,400 --> 01:34:47,200 Speaker 1: the truth that she behaves like a lunatic. And in 1796 01:34:47,320 --> 01:34:51,639 Speaker 1: that environment, she has emotionally blackmailed enough people to operate 1797 01:34:51,800 --> 01:34:55,240 Speaker 1: with impunity at the highest levels of the media business. 1798 01:34:55,640 --> 01:34:58,679 Speaker 1: The only thing that we have here is our voice 1799 01:34:58,880 --> 01:35:01,519 Speaker 1: to expose this their of vinality, and it's what we 1800 01:35:01,600 --> 01:35:04,000 Speaker 1: are going to continue to do here every single day 1801 01:35:04,200 --> 01:35:06,479 Speaker 1: as long as we're able. And that's the point, which 1802 01:35:06,520 --> 01:35:10,280 Speaker 1: is that this is all about making sure and if 1803 01:35:10,320 --> 01:35:13,120 Speaker 1: you want to hear my reaction to Sager's monologue become 1804 01:35:13,160 --> 01:35:19,360 Speaker 1: a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot Com. Crystal, what 1805 01:35:19,439 --> 01:35:21,280 Speaker 1: do you take a look at? Well, by now you 1806 01:35:21,400 --> 01:35:23,080 Speaker 1: probably I'll know about my little back and forth with 1807 01:35:23,160 --> 01:35:25,439 Speaker 1: AOC over her lack of support for the Amazon Labor 1808 01:35:25,560 --> 01:35:29,320 Speaker 1: Union when it really counted. Basically, according to union president 1809 01:35:29,439 --> 01:35:31,600 Speaker 1: Christian Small's, she pledged to show at one of their 1810 01:35:31,680 --> 01:35:33,960 Speaker 1: rallies and then she backed out and she goes to them. 1811 01:35:34,120 --> 01:35:36,599 Speaker 1: She didn't even offer so much as a Twitter mentioned 1812 01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:40,479 Speaker 1: as ballots were being cast. Now, this exchange led to 1813 01:35:40,640 --> 01:35:44,439 Speaker 1: a real conundrum for Fox News. Naturally, they can't resist 1814 01:35:44,520 --> 01:35:48,080 Speaker 1: any opportunity to own AOC, but how could they pull 1815 01:35:48,160 --> 01:35:51,880 Speaker 1: it off without accidentally signaling support for unions. Here is 1816 01:35:51,960 --> 01:35:55,799 Speaker 1: how Fox and Friends handled this delicate dance. Alexandria Acasio 1817 01:35:55,880 --> 01:35:58,519 Speaker 1: Cortez has been called out by a journalist for you know, 1818 01:35:58,680 --> 01:36:01,479 Speaker 1: she went to the met Gala, but she skipped an 1819 01:36:01,560 --> 01:36:05,400 Speaker 1: Amazon Union rally after she stopped by an Amazon factory 1820 01:36:05,760 --> 01:36:09,000 Speaker 1: from being well, you know, she stopped that from being built, biggest, 1821 01:36:09,080 --> 01:36:11,800 Speaker 1: bigger headquarters, twenty five thousand jobs here in the New 1822 01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:15,840 Speaker 1: York City area. Yes, I don't think Alexandria Ocasio Cortez 1823 01:36:15,960 --> 01:36:20,120 Speaker 1: is a great sort of partner for America's working families 1824 01:36:20,520 --> 01:36:23,879 Speaker 1: because she doesn't really represent them, she represents the interests 1825 01:36:23,920 --> 01:36:27,719 Speaker 1: which are against them in many ways. It is America 1826 01:36:27,840 --> 01:36:31,320 Speaker 1: is creating this inflation and it's hurting working families, and 1827 01:36:31,479 --> 01:36:34,160 Speaker 1: AOC doesn't realize it's just so funny. She just says 1828 01:36:34,880 --> 01:36:37,160 Speaker 1: the it's not Biden administration has let a lot of 1829 01:36:37,280 --> 01:36:40,360 Speaker 1: young people down, and they should really correct things before 1830 01:36:40,400 --> 01:36:43,439 Speaker 1: it's too late. Yeah, good luck at that. We're not 1831 01:36:43,560 --> 01:36:45,839 Speaker 1: going in the right now. The dollars exponge from everyone's 1832 01:36:45,920 --> 01:36:48,679 Speaker 1: student loans. Yes, I heard that. Yes, it's not going well. 1833 01:36:49,880 --> 01:36:53,120 Speaker 1: What a bunch of slimy hacks. AOC failed to show up. 1834 01:36:53,320 --> 01:36:56,080 Speaker 1: But these people, they would destroy every union in the 1835 01:36:56,160 --> 01:36:59,280 Speaker 1: nation if they had the chance. Stuart Varney is a 1836 01:36:59,439 --> 01:37:02,439 Speaker 1: classic Wall Street lutocrat. He is not a man of 1837 01:37:02,479 --> 01:37:05,800 Speaker 1: the people. In fact, he routinely trashes unions. He used 1838 01:37:05,840 --> 01:37:07,479 Speaker 1: to do a regular segment on his show. I don't 1839 01:37:07,479 --> 01:37:10,120 Speaker 1: think he does it anymore, called Union Watch, which only 1840 01:37:10,240 --> 01:37:13,840 Speaker 1: existed to serve exactly that union busting purpose. For this 1841 01:37:14,040 --> 01:37:16,719 Speaker 1: dude to posture like he's some friend of the working 1842 01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:20,439 Speaker 1: class is extraordinarily rich, and you notice how they immediately 1843 01:37:20,520 --> 01:37:23,080 Speaker 1: pivot to a host of more comfortable grievances like inflation 1844 01:37:23,280 --> 01:37:27,080 Speaker 1: and Biden and randomly reducing student loan debt. None offer 1845 01:37:27,240 --> 01:37:30,760 Speaker 1: even vague support for labor unions. Of course, now this 1846 01:37:30,920 --> 01:37:32,800 Speaker 1: all got me thinking about how many fake friends of 1847 01:37:32,880 --> 01:37:35,080 Speaker 1: workers are out there in our political and media class. 1848 01:37:35,120 --> 01:37:37,360 Speaker 1: And it also got me thinking about what an absolutely 1849 01:37:37,479 --> 01:37:41,160 Speaker 1: existential threat this budding movement really is to all of 1850 01:37:41,240 --> 01:37:44,320 Speaker 1: those fake friends in the establishments of both parties. You 1851 01:37:44,400 --> 01:37:46,920 Speaker 1: got the lefties like AOC and CO, who are supposed 1852 01:37:46,960 --> 01:37:49,559 Speaker 1: to be allies but for whatever reason, deemed this fight 1853 01:37:49,640 --> 01:37:52,320 Speaker 1: with Amazon the most critical labor fight in the entire 1854 01:37:52,400 --> 01:37:55,479 Speaker 1: country as not being worth their time and attention. But 1855 01:37:55,600 --> 01:37:57,720 Speaker 1: at least now that they see this as a winnable fight, 1856 01:37:58,040 --> 01:38:00,000 Speaker 1: maybe they'll show up next time. You've got to stay 1857 01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:02,439 Speaker 1: pablishment Democrats. At this point, most of them fall in 1858 01:38:02,520 --> 01:38:06,360 Speaker 1: the category of completely useless rather than actively oppositional. They're 1859 01:38:06,400 --> 01:38:09,479 Speaker 1: willing to generally say they support unions but do little 1860 01:38:09,520 --> 01:38:12,800 Speaker 1: to change a status quo which is overwhelmingly anti union. 1861 01:38:13,320 --> 01:38:15,560 Speaker 1: Then you got the Republicans, more on them in just 1862 01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:18,200 Speaker 1: a moment, so more perfect Union has compiled a helpful 1863 01:38:18,280 --> 01:38:20,559 Speaker 1: tracker of which members of Congress have bothered to say 1864 01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:24,719 Speaker 1: a single word about this historic, monumental victory for workers. 1865 01:38:25,200 --> 01:38:28,040 Speaker 1: Makes the score here pretty clear. In the House, when 1866 01:38:28,080 --> 01:38:31,160 Speaker 1: I checked this yesterday, thirty four out of two hundred 1867 01:38:31,160 --> 01:38:35,040 Speaker 1: and twenty one Democrats have congratulated the workers on their victory. 1868 01:38:35,280 --> 01:38:39,280 Speaker 1: Thirty four. That is a paltry fifteen percent of the caucus. 1869 01:38:39,680 --> 01:38:42,480 Speaker 1: This list is dominated by squad members and by progressives. 1870 01:38:42,840 --> 01:38:46,200 Speaker 1: In the Senate, ten out of fifty Democrats have spoken up. 1871 01:38:46,479 --> 01:38:48,719 Speaker 1: It's a mix of progressives, people like Bernie and Ward 1872 01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:51,360 Speaker 1: and Shared Brown, and then the New York Democrats Schumer 1873 01:38:51,400 --> 01:38:54,920 Speaker 1: and Jillibrand. That is also pathetic, but it is a 1874 01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:58,360 Speaker 1: damn sight better than the Republicans over in the GOP Caucus, 1875 01:38:58,560 --> 01:39:03,280 Speaker 1: exactly zero members have said a single word about what 1876 01:39:03,439 --> 01:39:06,160 Speaker 1: is the most significant and truly earth shattering victory for 1877 01:39:06,240 --> 01:39:10,400 Speaker 1: workers since the nineteen thirties. Obviously, this comes as no surprise, 1878 01:39:10,920 --> 01:39:13,720 Speaker 1: but as worth taking note of. Nonetheless, Republicans spent the 1879 01:39:13,720 --> 01:39:16,519 Speaker 1: Trump years using the language of the working class. Putting 1880 01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:18,920 Speaker 1: workers on stage at the RNC is a political ploy, 1881 01:39:19,200 --> 01:39:22,320 Speaker 1: but not moving their actual policy a single itch. It's 1882 01:39:22,360 --> 01:39:25,599 Speaker 1: a damn shame because in previous eras, labor unions did 1883 01:39:25,720 --> 01:39:29,120 Speaker 1: receive bipartisan support, and it was better for everyone when 1884 01:39:29,200 --> 01:39:31,640 Speaker 1: both parties felt like they had to compete to win 1885 01:39:31,800 --> 01:39:36,000 Speaker 1: union votes and organizational backing. The supposed populace in Washington 1886 01:39:36,080 --> 01:39:39,360 Speaker 1: now are just completely obsessed with culture war outrage. The 1887 01:39:39,520 --> 01:39:42,639 Speaker 1: furthest they have gone on unions is Marco Ruviu, who 1888 01:39:42,720 --> 01:39:45,960 Speaker 1: wrote an op ed offering lukewarm support for the effort 1889 01:39:46,000 --> 01:39:49,320 Speaker 1: to unionize an Amazon warehouse in Bessemer, but only because 1890 01:39:49,320 --> 01:39:52,559 Speaker 1: of Amazon's woke HR department. He made sure to note 1891 01:39:52,560 --> 01:39:56,759 Speaker 1: in the piece that quote adversarial labor relations are generally harmful, 1892 01:39:57,000 --> 01:39:59,920 Speaker 1: so to everyone was perfectly clear that his squishy support 1893 01:40:00,200 --> 01:40:02,560 Speaker 1: was just a one off, not an actual embrace of 1894 01:40:02,680 --> 01:40:06,200 Speaker 1: working class politics. The only real legislation offered by the 1895 01:40:06,200 --> 01:40:09,120 Speaker 1: swing of the party was similarly token, provisional and sneakly 1896 01:40:09,200 --> 01:40:12,200 Speaker 1: anti union, pushing for the creation of so called employee 1897 01:40:12,240 --> 01:40:16,640 Speaker 1: involvement organizations or EIOs. According to the advocates of this legislation, 1898 01:40:16,880 --> 01:40:21,880 Speaker 1: quote EIOs would not collectively bargain like unions, but would 1899 01:40:21,920 --> 01:40:27,200 Speaker 1: instead facilitate voluntary cooperation on critical issues like working conditions, benefits, 1900 01:40:27,240 --> 01:40:30,840 Speaker 1: and productivity in larger companies. In eio's members would be 1901 01:40:30,840 --> 01:40:34,160 Speaker 1: able to elect a non voting representative to the board 1902 01:40:34,200 --> 01:40:37,160 Speaker 1: of directors. In other words, workers get a non voting 1903 01:40:37,240 --> 01:40:41,479 Speaker 1: rep with zero actual power. It is classic token identity politics. 1904 01:40:41,560 --> 01:40:44,960 Speaker 1: A diversity and inclusion program just for workers. This is 1905 01:40:45,040 --> 01:40:48,479 Speaker 1: a perfect encapsulation of the GOP stance towards the working class. 1906 01:40:48,800 --> 01:40:52,519 Speaker 1: It's all rhetorical pro worker virtue signaling and hollow gestures, 1907 01:40:52,760 --> 01:40:55,560 Speaker 1: the equivalent of Nancy Pelosi kneeling and Kent cloth, but 1908 01:40:55,680 --> 01:40:58,880 Speaker 1: for workers. And that's before we even talk about Donald Trump. 1909 01:40:59,080 --> 01:41:01,120 Speaker 1: He'll put on a hard or I'll jump behind the 1910 01:41:01,120 --> 01:41:03,160 Speaker 1: wheel of a semi for a photo op. But his 1911 01:41:03,320 --> 01:41:06,479 Speaker 1: only real accomplishment in office was handing out tax cuts 1912 01:41:06,520 --> 01:41:09,040 Speaker 1: to the rich. And even worse, he staffed up his 1913 01:41:09,160 --> 01:41:11,960 Speaker 1: National Labor Relations Board with a bunch of union busting 1914 01:41:12,040 --> 01:41:14,519 Speaker 1: lawyers and handed the top job at the Labor Department 1915 01:41:15,040 --> 01:41:19,120 Speaker 1: to the disgusting epstein enabler Alex Acosta. A cost to 1916 01:41:19,120 --> 01:41:21,479 Speaker 1: spend his time in the post trying to undercut union 1917 01:41:21,520 --> 01:41:25,880 Speaker 1: apprenticeship programs, and I kid you, not pushing to slash 1918 01:41:25,960 --> 01:41:31,040 Speaker 1: the budget of the department that fights child sex trafficking. Now, listen, Biden. 1919 01:41:31,439 --> 01:41:33,600 Speaker 1: He has fallen far short of his promise to be 1920 01:41:33,640 --> 01:41:36,479 Speaker 1: the most pro union president in history, but his union 1921 01:41:36,520 --> 01:41:39,880 Speaker 1: friendly ed l RB handed Amazon and Starbucks workers key 1922 01:41:40,000 --> 01:41:42,599 Speaker 1: decisions in their favor that gave their drives the chance 1923 01:41:42,640 --> 01:41:45,000 Speaker 1: to succeed. And the reason I was hard on AOC 1924 01:41:45,120 --> 01:41:47,120 Speaker 1: is because it is vital that we are crystal clear 1925 01:41:47,200 --> 01:41:49,200 Speaker 1: about where all of our elites stand on all of 1926 01:41:49,280 --> 01:41:52,400 Speaker 1: these issues, what they've said, what they've done. As we 1927 01:41:52,520 --> 01:41:55,280 Speaker 1: head into what could be a transformational new era of 1928 01:41:55,360 --> 01:41:58,360 Speaker 1: labor politics, I've got some real hope the lefties will 1929 01:41:58,400 --> 01:42:00,439 Speaker 1: do better because they're the only ones with any track 1930 01:42:00,479 --> 01:42:02,680 Speaker 1: record of showing up for labor and standing up to 1931 01:42:02,720 --> 01:42:06,000 Speaker 1: corporate power vitally. They're the only group in Congress that 1932 01:42:06,120 --> 01:42:09,320 Speaker 1: rejects corporate cash. Just screwed this one up. Do better, 1933 01:42:09,520 --> 01:42:12,880 Speaker 1: that's all for all the rest. Make no mistake, this 1934 01:42:13,080 --> 01:42:17,080 Speaker 1: new era represents an absolutely existential threat to the power 1935 01:42:17,200 --> 01:42:21,439 Speaker 1: of both establishments. That's why they're all afraid to even 1936 01:42:21,520 --> 01:42:24,720 Speaker 1: say a word about it. Don't take my word for it, though. 1937 01:42:24,880 --> 01:42:27,519 Speaker 1: Here is Christian Small's president of AIL. You on what 1938 01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:34,640 Speaker 1: their victory shows. We got the jugglart. We went for 1939 01:42:34,720 --> 01:42:37,800 Speaker 1: the jugglart, and we went for the top dog because 1940 01:42:37,840 --> 01:42:41,200 Speaker 1: we want every other industry, every other business to know 1941 01:42:41,360 --> 01:42:45,320 Speaker 1: that gangs have changed. We were gonna unionize. I'm not 1942 01:42:45,360 --> 01:42:48,960 Speaker 1: gonna quit our jobs anymore. And uh, you know, this 1943 01:42:49,080 --> 01:42:52,880 Speaker 1: is a prime example of what the power that people 1944 01:42:53,000 --> 01:42:56,960 Speaker 1: have when they come together. Unions are the only way 1945 01:42:57,000 --> 01:42:59,240 Speaker 1: the multi racial working class will have power. They were 1946 01:42:59,240 --> 01:43:01,160 Speaker 1: the backbone of the New Deal era. As much as 1947 01:43:01,240 --> 01:43:03,719 Speaker 1: we talk about FDR, it was labor struggle that forced 1948 01:43:03,760 --> 01:43:06,080 Speaker 1: politicians to cut the working class in on the deal 1949 01:43:06,120 --> 01:43:11,040 Speaker 1: of American prosperity. Organized workers means organized political power. It 1950 01:43:11,160 --> 01:43:14,760 Speaker 1: means real fights over real issues, and real accountability, not 1951 01:43:14,880 --> 01:43:18,439 Speaker 1: just bullshit kabuki theater culture war. But the vanguard of 1952 01:43:18,479 --> 01:43:22,040 Speaker 1: this movement is young young millennials gen Z. Many are 1953 01:43:22,200 --> 01:43:25,800 Speaker 1: likely non voters, a latent and powerful force taking its 1954 01:43:25,920 --> 01:43:30,360 Speaker 1: first steps towards mass political power. These workers were radicalized. 1955 01:43:30,400 --> 01:43:33,439 Speaker 1: They're radicalized by COVID, by being treated as disposable by 1956 01:43:33,479 --> 01:43:36,040 Speaker 1: their corporate bosses and by their political leaders. Whether you 1957 01:43:36,120 --> 01:43:38,439 Speaker 1: have a D or an R, they see right through 1958 01:43:38,560 --> 01:43:42,200 Speaker 1: your token gestures and will accept nothing less than actual 1959 01:43:42,400 --> 01:43:46,439 Speaker 1: say power and control in their workplaces and in society 1960 01:43:46,439 --> 01:43:49,519 Speaker 1: at large. In other words, this win is a step 1961 01:43:49,600 --> 01:43:53,760 Speaker 1: towards real democracy, a massive tectonic shift away from the 1962 01:43:53,840 --> 01:43:57,040 Speaker 1: slide towards police state and technocratic rule by elites. And 1963 01:43:57,280 --> 01:44:02,200 Speaker 1: now all the fake friends have just been thoroughly exposed. Onward, 1964 01:44:03,439 --> 01:44:06,599 Speaker 1: very interesting, sager to see what anyone has to say 1965 01:44:06,920 --> 01:44:09,640 Speaker 1: about and if you want to hear my reaction to 1966 01:44:09,800 --> 01:44:13,639 Speaker 1: Crystal's monologue, become a premium subscriber today at breakingpoints dot com. 1967 01:44:16,840 --> 01:44:19,160 Speaker 1: All right, guys, we were not sure that he would 1968 01:44:19,200 --> 01:44:21,639 Speaker 1: have time this morning for us, but he has managed 1969 01:44:21,680 --> 01:44:24,160 Speaker 1: to squeeze in a few minutes to talk to Breaking Points. 1970 01:44:24,200 --> 01:44:28,400 Speaker 1: The man himself, Christian Small's president of the victorious Amazon 1971 01:44:28,680 --> 01:44:31,880 Speaker 1: Labor Union. And it is so great to see you. Congratulations, 1972 01:44:32,840 --> 01:44:35,559 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you for having me appreciate it, of course, 1973 01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:38,080 Speaker 1: So let's start with the personal. Just how are you feeling? 1974 01:44:38,160 --> 01:44:42,559 Speaker 1: What has this been like? It's been a whirlwind, obviously 1975 01:44:42,640 --> 01:44:46,560 Speaker 1: the last this weekend, it's been crazy for us on 1976 01:44:46,720 --> 01:44:50,519 Speaker 1: our end. We're being bombarded by you workers from all 1977 01:44:50,560 --> 01:44:54,080 Speaker 1: over the country, you know, media, So it's it's been 1978 01:44:54,120 --> 01:44:57,920 Speaker 1: a whirlwind, but great to see, I'm happy to share 1979 01:44:57,960 --> 01:45:01,280 Speaker 1: this experience with the nation and the world. Yeah, I 1980 01:45:01,320 --> 01:45:03,200 Speaker 1: mean it's sunny. It's also cool for us. You know, 1981 01:45:03,280 --> 01:45:05,439 Speaker 1: we've gotten to interview now over the time for the 1982 01:45:05,520 --> 01:45:08,559 Speaker 1: last two years on and off and watched your progress. 1983 01:45:08,640 --> 01:45:10,840 Speaker 1: It's just amazing to watch, Chris. We don't want to 1984 01:45:10,840 --> 01:45:12,880 Speaker 1: spend too much time in the past. Let's talk about 1985 01:45:12,880 --> 01:45:14,559 Speaker 1: the future. What have you got the votes that are 1986 01:45:14,600 --> 01:45:16,920 Speaker 1: coming up? What are you specifically going to be focused on. 1987 01:45:17,000 --> 01:45:19,560 Speaker 1: So you've got JFK eight, what's the next warehouse? And 1988 01:45:19,640 --> 01:45:21,320 Speaker 1: then what are the ones after that? I'm sure your 1989 01:45:21,320 --> 01:45:25,360 Speaker 1: phone is ran off the hook. Yeah. LDJ five is 1990 01:45:25,439 --> 01:45:28,160 Speaker 1: up next in three weeks, so we're preparing for that. 1991 01:45:28,360 --> 01:45:30,639 Speaker 1: You know, I was right back at the bus stop yesterday. 1992 01:45:30,800 --> 01:45:33,320 Speaker 1: I'm planning on going back out there connecting with workers. 1993 01:45:33,960 --> 01:45:36,479 Speaker 1: We had several meetings yesterday, so we're right back on 1994 01:45:36,560 --> 01:45:39,880 Speaker 1: the ground, right back on the campaign trail. We obviously 1995 01:45:39,920 --> 01:45:42,559 Speaker 1: want to be two for two the habit for filming 1996 01:45:42,640 --> 01:45:45,080 Speaker 1: center and assortation center, and it's a different type of 1997 01:45:45,120 --> 01:45:48,360 Speaker 1: building that definitely is going to just show the strength 1998 01:45:48,439 --> 01:45:51,760 Speaker 1: of the union. And we're you know, once again, we're 1999 01:45:51,800 --> 01:45:56,519 Speaker 1: hoping to be successful. Chris, you mentioned you've got workers 2000 01:45:56,640 --> 01:46:00,160 Speaker 1: across the country reaching out to you. How many other 2001 01:46:00,439 --> 01:46:03,760 Speaker 1: Amazon facilities across the country right now are interested in 2002 01:46:04,000 --> 01:46:09,320 Speaker 1: unionizing with Amazon Labor Union. Oh well, I can tell 2003 01:46:09,320 --> 01:46:12,439 Speaker 1: you before the election, I had a list of about 2004 01:46:12,840 --> 01:46:16,519 Speaker 1: maybe about twelve to eighteen buildings in different states, But 2005 01:46:16,720 --> 01:46:20,479 Speaker 1: now that's probably four times the amount. You know, we 2006 01:46:20,600 --> 01:46:24,639 Speaker 1: had workers from. I don't even know all different types 2007 01:46:24,640 --> 01:46:28,040 Speaker 1: of all different parts of the country, even as far 2008 01:46:28,120 --> 01:46:34,280 Speaker 1: as South Africa, India, other countries. Warehouses that you know 2009 01:46:34,439 --> 01:46:38,320 Speaker 1: want to former ALU chapter for Amazon. So it's been 2010 01:46:38,439 --> 01:46:41,120 Speaker 1: it's been beautiful to see, be honest with you. So 2011 01:46:41,400 --> 01:46:44,439 Speaker 1: it's fascinating to me, Chris kind of thinking about why 2012 01:46:44,520 --> 01:46:46,960 Speaker 1: the entire world counted you out. I mean, you were 2013 01:46:47,080 --> 01:46:48,719 Speaker 1: the person who was at the center of the story. 2014 01:46:48,920 --> 01:46:50,720 Speaker 1: Why do you think so at the end of the day, 2015 01:46:50,920 --> 01:46:54,080 Speaker 1: Bessemer got a ton of media attention in the lead 2016 01:46:54,120 --> 01:46:56,080 Speaker 1: up to that you were counted out from the beginning. 2017 01:46:56,360 --> 01:46:59,080 Speaker 1: You were written off both by Amazon leadership by the media. 2018 01:46:59,360 --> 01:47:03,320 Speaker 1: We've talked obviously about how AOC canceled her appearance with you, 2019 01:47:03,479 --> 01:47:05,360 Speaker 1: but a lot of people had time to go down 2020 01:47:05,680 --> 01:47:08,400 Speaker 1: to best in Alabama. Why did everybody count you out 2021 01:47:08,520 --> 01:47:11,640 Speaker 1: in this fight, the most victorious, the biggest victory in 2022 01:47:11,680 --> 01:47:17,360 Speaker 1: the modern American labor movement. Yeah, I can't fathom that. 2023 01:47:17,439 --> 01:47:20,680 Speaker 1: I don't know why. I just believed that it was 2024 01:47:20,760 --> 01:47:23,960 Speaker 1: just a lot of misinformation about me as a leader, 2025 01:47:24,640 --> 01:47:26,720 Speaker 1: you know, about what we're doing with this union. From 2026 01:47:26,760 --> 01:47:29,160 Speaker 1: the beginning, a lot of people didn't believe in us. 2027 01:47:29,280 --> 01:47:32,040 Speaker 1: They didn't believe that we were even going to make 2028 01:47:32,080 --> 01:47:34,479 Speaker 1: it to an election. Then they didn't believe that we 2029 01:47:34,600 --> 01:47:37,720 Speaker 1: were going to recover from the withdrawal. So a lot 2030 01:47:37,760 --> 01:47:40,720 Speaker 1: of people just abandoned us. And it doesn't make any 2031 01:47:40,800 --> 01:47:43,280 Speaker 1: sense that we all claim that we standing in solidarity 2032 01:47:43,320 --> 01:47:46,360 Speaker 1: with one another. We needed a lot of support in 2033 01:47:46,439 --> 01:47:50,280 Speaker 1: the beginning, and we got zero. And you know, once 2034 01:47:50,360 --> 01:47:55,719 Speaker 1: I realized that we were victorious without back, I realized 2035 01:47:55,760 --> 01:47:58,800 Speaker 1: that there's nothing that we can't achieve. And you know, 2036 01:47:58,880 --> 01:48:02,040 Speaker 1: once again, I'm just happy that I've been able to, 2037 01:48:02,479 --> 01:48:05,200 Speaker 1: you know, lead us to this victory because I know 2038 01:48:06,040 --> 01:48:09,640 Speaker 1: what I sacrifice, the people around me know what I sacrifice, 2039 01:48:10,280 --> 01:48:13,240 Speaker 1: and I know that we love one another, We take 2040 01:48:13,240 --> 01:48:16,599 Speaker 1: care of one another, and the way we got here 2041 01:48:16,800 --> 01:48:18,920 Speaker 1: is the way we're going to continue to move forward. 2042 01:48:19,800 --> 01:48:22,559 Speaker 1: I want to say something about that too, because every 2043 01:48:22,640 --> 01:48:25,559 Speaker 1: single union drive in this country, because of the way 2044 01:48:25,800 --> 01:48:28,200 Speaker 1: that the laws are rigged and because of the power 2045 01:48:28,320 --> 01:48:31,680 Speaker 1: that these corporate behemoths hold, every single union drive in 2046 01:48:31,800 --> 01:48:36,120 Speaker 1: this country is a long shot, uphill battle. That doesn't 2047 01:48:36,200 --> 01:48:38,800 Speaker 1: mean you don't show up for it. That doesn't mean 2048 01:48:39,160 --> 01:48:41,439 Speaker 1: that you know, you calculate al is this one gonna win? 2049 01:48:41,600 --> 01:48:43,800 Speaker 1: Let me see, I'm not sure I'll show up after 2050 01:48:43,920 --> 01:48:46,120 Speaker 1: the fact. You got to be there from the start 2051 01:48:46,479 --> 01:48:48,439 Speaker 1: because if even the people who are supposed to be 2052 01:48:48,560 --> 01:48:51,200 Speaker 1: allies don't have your back, well, then that creates a 2053 01:48:51,240 --> 01:48:55,160 Speaker 1: self fulfilling prophecy. Now, luckily, you were obviously able to 2054 01:48:55,280 --> 01:48:59,719 Speaker 1: overcome those odds in stunning fashion. You know, have workers 2055 01:48:59,760 --> 01:49:03,200 Speaker 1: from across the country and around the globe reaching out 2056 01:49:03,240 --> 01:49:07,280 Speaker 1: to you about forming ALU chapters. How are you going 2057 01:49:07,360 --> 01:49:10,519 Speaker 1: to replicate the success you had here? Because from what 2058 01:49:10,680 --> 01:49:12,719 Speaker 1: I read and from what I've been talking to you about, 2059 01:49:13,120 --> 01:49:17,519 Speaker 1: you all had such an intensely like hyper local focus. Obviously, 2060 01:49:17,640 --> 01:49:20,160 Speaker 1: you were a leader within Amazon before they fired you, 2061 01:49:20,320 --> 01:49:23,240 Speaker 1: people knew you. You had a lot of connections, You 2062 01:49:23,360 --> 01:49:25,200 Speaker 1: had a lot of ability to talk to people at 2063 01:49:25,240 --> 01:49:28,320 Speaker 1: the bus stop and make food that was culturally relevant 2064 01:49:28,400 --> 01:49:31,800 Speaker 1: and across all kinds of age and racial and ethnic divides. 2065 01:49:32,360 --> 01:49:35,360 Speaker 1: Is that something that's possible to replicate in warehouses across 2066 01:49:35,479 --> 01:49:40,040 Speaker 1: the country. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, of course, New York 2067 01:49:40,160 --> 01:49:43,280 Speaker 1: is obviously a union town. It's a little different here. 2068 01:49:43,880 --> 01:49:46,680 Speaker 1: Our culture is a little different here. We had to 2069 01:49:46,760 --> 01:49:49,479 Speaker 1: adapt to that. You know, I brought in people from Miami, 2070 01:49:49,640 --> 01:49:53,519 Speaker 1: from Arizona, California. They obviously don't know the culture here 2071 01:49:53,560 --> 01:49:55,720 Speaker 1: in New York. They never stepped foot over here in 2072 01:49:55,760 --> 01:49:59,360 Speaker 1: Staten Island, and so they got connected with me. You 2073 01:49:59,479 --> 01:50:02,280 Speaker 1: have to to whoever region you are in a country, 2074 01:50:02,640 --> 01:50:05,120 Speaker 1: and that's fine. It's easy to do that if you're 2075 01:50:05,160 --> 01:50:08,720 Speaker 1: from that community, you represent the people, you represent, your coworkers. 2076 01:50:09,800 --> 01:50:13,599 Speaker 1: You can absolutely take some some things from our campaign 2077 01:50:13,720 --> 01:50:16,640 Speaker 1: and using your own campaign, and we encourage you to. 2078 01:50:16,840 --> 01:50:19,960 Speaker 1: We encourage you to reach out and we will help 2079 01:50:20,040 --> 01:50:22,760 Speaker 1: you get started. You know, we always been that way. 2080 01:50:23,280 --> 01:50:26,599 Speaker 1: I myself, I've been on the picket lines for several 2081 01:50:26,680 --> 01:50:29,160 Speaker 1: different movements people seeing that, you know, for the last 2082 01:50:29,200 --> 01:50:31,880 Speaker 1: two years. It doesn't matter what the cause is about. 2083 01:50:31,960 --> 01:50:34,400 Speaker 1: If you call me and I have the availability, I 2084 01:50:34,479 --> 01:50:37,160 Speaker 1: make myself available. Like you mentioned, I show up when 2085 01:50:37,200 --> 01:50:39,800 Speaker 1: it needs to be, you know, when it's time for action. 2086 01:50:40,000 --> 01:50:43,880 Speaker 1: Everybody knows that, and that's what it's going to take. 2087 01:50:43,920 --> 01:50:46,760 Speaker 1: You know, you have to realize that this is twenty 2088 01:50:46,800 --> 01:50:49,679 Speaker 1: first century, this is this is not the nineteen thirties. 2089 01:50:49,760 --> 01:50:54,400 Speaker 1: You can't beat these major corporations with traditional style unionizing. 2090 01:50:55,040 --> 01:50:57,719 Speaker 1: That's why for the last twenty eight years, no established 2091 01:50:57,800 --> 01:51:02,360 Speaker 1: union was able to achieve what we were able to do. Chris, 2092 01:51:02,479 --> 01:51:05,040 Speaker 1: What is Amazon going to throw at you now? We 2093 01:51:05,200 --> 01:51:08,360 Speaker 1: put up on the screen earlier in the show. Their response. 2094 01:51:08,560 --> 01:51:11,400 Speaker 1: They're basically like sort of claiming that the election was 2095 01:51:11,520 --> 01:51:16,240 Speaker 1: rigged and that NLRB acted inappropriately. I have no idea 2096 01:51:16,360 --> 01:51:18,240 Speaker 1: what they're going to try to throw at you. They've 2097 01:51:18,280 --> 01:51:20,880 Speaker 1: already tried to smearry you once and it backfire tremendously. 2098 01:51:20,960 --> 01:51:22,360 Speaker 1: So if I were them, i'd be a little bit 2099 01:51:22,439 --> 01:51:24,560 Speaker 1: leary of trying to do that again. What do you 2100 01:51:24,600 --> 01:51:28,400 Speaker 1: think that they're going to come with now? I just 2101 01:51:28,439 --> 01:51:30,439 Speaker 1: think they're going to continue the union bus and us 2102 01:51:30,560 --> 01:51:33,799 Speaker 1: pour millions of dollars into stopping us with their lawyers 2103 01:51:33,880 --> 01:51:37,360 Speaker 1: and their union bussers that they're hiring. You know, shoot, 2104 01:51:37,360 --> 01:51:39,920 Speaker 1: they already arrested me, so I don't know what else 2105 01:51:39,920 --> 01:51:43,240 Speaker 1: they want to do after that. You know, not only 2106 01:51:43,280 --> 01:51:46,360 Speaker 1: that arrested me, they arrested my organizer who's actually a 2107 01:51:46,439 --> 01:51:50,640 Speaker 1: worker twice. And I don't know. You know, we are 2108 01:51:50,720 --> 01:51:53,760 Speaker 1: prepared for whatever they throw at us, you know, I mean, 2109 01:51:53,920 --> 01:51:57,120 Speaker 1: I know, once again, we're taking on a trillion dollar 2110 01:51:57,200 --> 01:51:58,920 Speaker 1: company and people are like, you know, we're going to 2111 01:51:58,960 --> 01:52:01,840 Speaker 1: need help. But we have some cavalry that's starting to 2112 01:52:01,880 --> 01:52:04,880 Speaker 1: show up now and now that the world is paying attention, 2113 01:52:06,120 --> 01:52:08,600 Speaker 1: excuse me, We're going to have some help. We're going 2114 01:52:08,640 --> 01:52:10,640 Speaker 1: to have some legal representation coming in. We're going to 2115 01:52:10,680 --> 01:52:13,880 Speaker 1: have you know, some more negotiators coming in to help 2116 01:52:13,960 --> 01:52:16,960 Speaker 1: us with the contract. We're going to get everything we need. 2117 01:52:17,000 --> 01:52:19,000 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna make sure that, you know, everybody knows 2118 01:52:19,040 --> 01:52:21,120 Speaker 1: that I'm a fighter and I'm a fight into the 2119 01:52:21,240 --> 01:52:23,360 Speaker 1: very end to make sure not only that we just 2120 01:52:23,400 --> 01:52:26,519 Speaker 1: winning elections, but we deliber our contract. Yeah, and I 2121 01:52:26,600 --> 01:52:30,080 Speaker 1: think that's really important. And you know, to call out 2122 01:52:30,080 --> 01:52:32,160 Speaker 1: the people who weren't there from the beginning. It's not 2123 01:52:32,240 --> 01:52:34,719 Speaker 1: too late to show up, guys. You got another vote 2124 01:52:34,880 --> 01:52:38,600 Speaker 1: that is happening, right, you know, nearby. What is it 2125 01:52:38,640 --> 01:52:42,080 Speaker 1: April twenty third that voting starts. You all still need, 2126 01:52:42,439 --> 01:52:44,080 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of support and a lot of 2127 01:52:44,120 --> 01:52:47,000 Speaker 1: help here, Chris. Just tell people who are watching how 2128 01:52:47,080 --> 01:52:52,680 Speaker 1: they can support the movement. Yes, please support us, help 2129 01:52:52,800 --> 01:52:56,720 Speaker 1: us volunteer, phone banking, whatever. We share our links to 2130 01:52:56,800 --> 01:52:59,000 Speaker 1: have volunteers sign up the phone bakerby in the New 2131 01:52:59,080 --> 01:53:01,360 Speaker 1: York area and if you're not you can do it remotely. 2132 01:53:02,360 --> 01:53:05,400 Speaker 1: Please donate. If you can't help us volunteering on the ground, 2133 01:53:06,080 --> 01:53:07,840 Speaker 1: please donate to our goal fumd me. It's on our 2134 01:53:07,880 --> 01:53:11,439 Speaker 1: website at Amazon Labor Union dot org on our social 2135 01:53:11,520 --> 01:53:16,800 Speaker 1: media as well. Follow us, support us, and just pay 2136 01:53:16,840 --> 01:53:20,120 Speaker 1: attention to what we're doing. Because it's only day one 2137 01:53:20,200 --> 01:53:22,559 Speaker 1: for the ail you and we're hoping that we're going 2138 01:53:22,640 --> 01:53:25,840 Speaker 1: to continue to spread like wildfire. We're excited to see 2139 01:53:25,880 --> 01:53:27,880 Speaker 1: your progress, Chris. We encourage everybody to go and donate. 2140 01:53:27,920 --> 01:53:30,040 Speaker 1: We're going to link down there in description. Been behind 2141 01:53:30,080 --> 01:53:32,439 Speaker 1: you from the very beginning and can't wait to see 2142 01:53:32,439 --> 01:53:34,800 Speaker 1: what you do next. Yeah, you're back. Absolutely. It is 2143 01:53:35,360 --> 01:53:38,200 Speaker 1: truly incredible, and I just want to say, guys, there 2144 01:53:38,280 --> 01:53:41,840 Speaker 1: is no more worthy cause out there. If you truly 2145 01:53:41,920 --> 01:53:45,759 Speaker 1: care about working people. This isn't just even about Amazon 2146 01:53:45,840 --> 01:53:49,600 Speaker 1: workers across the country. Amazon sets the labor standards for 2147 01:53:49,760 --> 01:53:53,120 Speaker 1: workers in every industry in this nation. If we can 2148 01:53:53,200 --> 01:53:55,799 Speaker 1: change the game at Amazon, then literally anything as possible. 2149 01:53:55,880 --> 01:53:58,920 Speaker 1: So Christian's been out there with his coworkers doing this 2150 01:53:59,160 --> 01:54:01,880 Speaker 1: on his own, boots dropping it. Now's the time to 2151 01:54:01,960 --> 01:54:04,599 Speaker 1: flood the zone with resources and make this a nationwide movement. 2152 01:54:05,080 --> 01:54:08,200 Speaker 1: Thank you, congratulations, wonderful to see you see man. Absolutely, 2153 01:54:08,280 --> 01:54:12,599 Speaker 1: thank you, take care. Thank you guys so much for watching. 2154 01:54:12,800 --> 01:54:14,720 Speaker 1: Thank you for supporting our work. You support us so 2155 01:54:14,840 --> 01:54:17,840 Speaker 1: that we can bring to light cases like Christian Smalls. 2156 01:54:17,840 --> 01:54:19,360 Speaker 1: We'll be doing this for two years straight. One of 2157 01:54:19,400 --> 01:54:22,040 Speaker 1: the only people who ever took him seriously covered them 2158 01:54:22,040 --> 01:54:24,200 Speaker 1: from the beginning. When AOC and them turn their back 2159 01:54:24,280 --> 01:54:26,800 Speaker 1: on him, it didn't matter, continue to bring you the story. 2160 01:54:27,080 --> 01:54:29,439 Speaker 1: That's the type of journalism you're supporting here. We've been 2161 01:54:29,439 --> 01:54:31,760 Speaker 1: thinking a lot here about our mission and it really 2162 01:54:31,920 --> 01:54:35,800 Speaker 1: is becoming a new mainstream, creating a new environment which 2163 01:54:35,840 --> 01:54:38,840 Speaker 1: can flourish and replace the existing and kind of dead order. 2164 01:54:38,920 --> 01:54:42,560 Speaker 1: And it looks exactly like elevating voices like his, covering 2165 01:54:42,600 --> 01:54:45,200 Speaker 1: that story and giving legitimate coverage to what should be 2166 01:54:45,240 --> 01:54:46,800 Speaker 1: one of the biggest stories in the entire country. That 2167 01:54:46,960 --> 01:54:50,120 Speaker 1: is one hundred percent the case. I went back and 2168 01:54:50,200 --> 01:54:53,960 Speaker 1: I was looking through our coverage at Rising even before 2169 01:54:54,040 --> 01:54:57,120 Speaker 1: we came here, and the number of segments that we 2170 01:54:57,280 --> 01:55:00,200 Speaker 1: did about what was going on with Christian and the 2171 01:55:00,240 --> 01:55:02,880 Speaker 1: conditions at the warehouse, and the conditions for drivers, and 2172 01:55:02,960 --> 01:55:05,800 Speaker 1: the conditions for now they want people to assemble furniture 2173 01:55:05,840 --> 01:55:08,680 Speaker 1: in like five seconds and get paid nothing extra for it. 2174 01:55:09,960 --> 01:55:14,240 Speaker 1: We really have laser focused on this issue among others, 2175 01:55:14,440 --> 01:55:18,720 Speaker 1: because Amazon is so impactful across like every sector of 2176 01:55:19,000 --> 01:55:23,120 Speaker 1: American society, and any media that's worth assault would be 2177 01:55:23,240 --> 01:55:25,160 Speaker 1: doing the same because these are the sorts of things 2178 01:55:25,200 --> 01:55:28,120 Speaker 1: that really impact your day to day life, whether you 2179 01:55:28,240 --> 01:55:31,680 Speaker 1: are an Amazon worker or not. So extremely grateful to 2180 01:55:31,760 --> 01:55:34,920 Speaker 1: you guys for enabling us to continue that work. Obviously, 2181 01:55:34,960 --> 01:55:37,520 Speaker 1: extremely grateful to Christian for taking time out this morning 2182 01:55:37,520 --> 01:55:40,640 Speaker 1: when he is extremely, extremely busy, and listen, guys, we're 2183 01:55:40,640 --> 01:55:42,560 Speaker 1: hopeful and we're excited about the future. So thanks for 2184 01:55:42,640 --> 01:55:44,280 Speaker 1: being part of it, and we will see you tomorrow.