WEBVTT - We Just Don't Sleep 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:06.360 I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg News, 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:10.400 and this is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg I Heard podcast. 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:25.200 It's Friday, August twelve. Bloomberg Crypto Senior editor is Dave 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:27.880 Litka and Anna Arera joined me this week for another 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:31.280 edition of what we're calling Friday in the Editor's Room. 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:33.040 That's when you'll hear from me and a couple of 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:35.640 our other crypto editors on the highs and lows of 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:38.239 this week. We'll talk about the biggest stories that we're 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:46.879 covering and what's driving markets right now. Anna, Dave, thank 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:50.560 you both for being here. Anna, you are in Italy 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:54.480 at the moment. I am We're fully embracing that distributed 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:59.080 crypto lifestyle. We are. I am a crypto nomad sort 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:02.960 of for for the for the month, a cryptote for 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:04.800 the month. Um. Stay tuned for more reporting on that 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:08.080 to our listeners. But Dave, one of the stories that 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:10.720 we've been really paying attention to, obviously for a long time, 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:14.840 but especially this week is coin bases most recent earnings results. 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.960 Can you just talk through a little bit about what 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:20.280 that was, why people have been paying attention and like 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.119 what the market reaction has been, like sure coin base 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:26.160 for those who do know or do know, it's the 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:30.880 biggest US publicly traded exchange and also probably one of 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:34.399 the biggest and most influential players in crypto right now. 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:38.039 There's over a hundred million people who are signed out 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:40.040 for this on it, they are as good as brahmbers 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:42.200 and that you're gonna see. And everybody knew was a 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:45.679 bad quarter on it, but they actually had a more 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:49.280 than one billion dollars swing in revenue. So a year ago, 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:52.200 when everybody was all excited about a crypto, they made 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:55.080 over two billion dollars in revenue. This year they were 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:58.000 less than a billion on it, which in any industry 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:00.680 you never see swings like that, right, So it was 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:04.320 really indicative of what's going on. And of course with 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:07.200 all these calls, people want to know what's going on, 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.440 what's going to happen next on it, and they did 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:12.360 flick that it's crypto winner. We're not gonna make any 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:15.680 predictions in terms of when it's over, but we think 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:19.520 it's going to be slow going forward. So as you say, 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:24.240 a billion dollars is a fairly dramatic move by any 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:28.600 conceivable metric. What contributed to that weakness specifically, were they 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:31.399 making less money on a particular part of the business. Well, 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:33.400 they make their money through fees on it, and I 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:35.600 mean that's why Wall Street loves them. There's a model 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:41.000 there on it. But when everybody who got into crypto 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.360 decides not the trade anymore and sits on their hands 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:47.400 and then become hobblers as they call um, rather than 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:52.000 traders or speculators or the fomo fear tapers out, then 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:55.480 they don't generate feast. That was the biggest impact. So 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:59.120 their biggest problem is people were like, I'm just gonna 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:03.040 wait and see and not not making any transactions at all. 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:05.480 And they need they need that transaction volume to make money, 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:08.200 transactions to how they make their business. And the big 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:13.080 question is with all these exchanges is when does retail 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:16.640 come back? What did they say about their n f 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:20.600 T business Because they recently launched a platform for non 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:22.640 fungible tokens and they were like, we're going to compete 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:24.120 with the biggest players and we're going to do it 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:26.560 through user experience. Like, how's that been going? It was 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:29.359 probably one of the worst time launches ever in terms 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:32.240 of a product as the market was collapsing. But they 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:34.040 did say in the call, Hey, we're in for the 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:36.600 long haul on this. What else would you expect them 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:39.760 to say on it? They're not gonna punt on what 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:41.880 a lot of people think is kind of the future 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:44.240 of this sector. They're holding the course as that we're 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:45.720 on their n f T s. They're not pulling back 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:48.440 correct and I'm gonna I'm gonna switch to you for 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:50.680 a slightly different element of the market. You know, people 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:53.600 have been really paying attention to coin base, as you know, 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.640 to use one of Dave's words, a baromenta of the biggest, 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.840 most important, most liquid parts of crypto to really under 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:04.320 and retail trader sentiment. But then there's like, shall we 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:08.280 describe it as a more esoteric part of crypto markets, 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:12.000 that universe of what are called mixers, which you know, 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:17.159 services protocols that people use to obscure the origins and 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:21.120 the destinations of, you know, certain types of crypto transactions. 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:24.560 What's been going on in mixer land. So there was 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:27.920 a big week for mixer lands. The US Treasury Department 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:31.960 sanctioned a big mixer called Tornado Cash, which, as you said, 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:35.240 is a service lets you hide your transaction, so if 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:39.119 you tack someone's bitcoin, no one can follow and see 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:42.040 where you're sending them. It's been used to London funds, 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.320 Tornado cash, have you heard of it. I would put 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:46.080 this sort of in the category of the most important 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.360 crypto related sanctions that ever came out of the U. S. 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.520 Treasury Department. So obviously it's a big deal if a 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:54.320 crypto service gets sanctioned and blocked, because the idea of 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:58.839 crypto is that it's permissionless and you know, on censorship resistance. 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:00.880 So so it kind of showed if you want to, 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:03.760 then you can censor crypto. This is the first step, right, 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:06.200 because a way that you could go after a crypto 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:09.800 services by sort of targeting the providers of the underlying 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:12.960 technology and infrastructure, right, which might be companies in the 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:15.239 US or companies that do have an incentive to follow 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:17.479 US rules. So that was the first step. And then 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:20.880 this became somewhat interesting was that the way crypto reacted 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:24.760 to the to this was well, you can't censor everything, 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:28.040 even providers of technology. So what we'll do is we'll 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:29.840 show you that there's only so far as you can go. 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:33.680 Some anonymous users in Crypto started using Tornado cash to 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:37.200 send tokens to known wallet addresses. So some of some 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:40.760 celebrities and the idea they're being we're showing you that 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.800 then these celebrities could have potentially been implicated in the 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:48.600 sanctuaries or weren't following the US Treasuries advice or ad punishments. Right. 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:50.960 It kind of became this giant question and tension in 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:55.800 crypto of you know, is it really censorship resistance or not? 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:58.880 You know, do users have a right to privacy don't they? 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:00.760 So it became so much more than just you know, 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:05.360 the sanctions to one mixer. So it sounds like there's 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:07.520 a couple of issues all tied up in there at 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:09.320 once that I want to unpack with you a little bit. 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:12.520 I want to start with the privacy question, because you know, 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:16.120 in when the Treasury came out and said, hey, you're 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.920 in trouble, We're going to sanction you. As you say, 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:20.960 the very first thing that people said was like, you 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:23.800 can't sanction software, and the Treasure was like, watch us, 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:28.160 We're totally going to sanction software. But immediately after that 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:33.160 was this question of how does that work in practice? 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:36.080 And so one of the things that we saw is 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:41.400 that Tornado cash is a website, email um, their access 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.880 to a platform called get hub, which is what you know, 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:47.480 developers and people who build software used to share and 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.479 store their code. They lost access to all of those things. 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:53.320 So it looks like the way that you sanction software 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:58.120 in crypto is by going to companies that are in 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:02.040 like web two world um, and you kind of undermine 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:06.800 that decentralization. But the other element of this privacy question is, Okay, 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:09.520 if they can go after something that's used Yes, it's 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:11.640 used by North Korean hackers, but it's also just used 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:16.360 by ordinary people, what does that mean for your ability 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:20.560 in crypto to actually maintain some degree of anonymity? And 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:26.320 what I'm hearing from you is it's very confusing right now. Yes, 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:28.600 And also and also while you might think, well, we 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:31.960 do want a society where, you know, some people might 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.640 want this want of society where people where governments can 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:38.040 go after you know, criminals, you know, we could also 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:40.760 think about the reverse idea, right where you know, maybe 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:42.480 I want to send money to Ukraine, or someone in 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:44.280 Russia wants to send money to Ukraine and they don't 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.720 want their government to censor that right, there's a legitimate 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.280 reason why you don't want people to see your transactions. 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:51.920 And it's especially important if we think about crypto maybe 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:54.560 growing beyond just crypto, right, if we think about digital 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:58.320 assets and government backset central currencies, if crypto does become 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:01.680 more of a form of payment, these questions are important 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:04.400 because then we're talking about anti money landering at a 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:08.320 much bigger scale, right, not just involving you know, transactions 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:12.600 that from from hacking of crypto services, right, it becomes everything. 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:14.880 It becomes like I bought a sandwich for lunch and 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:17.920 now the government knows about it, exactly. I appreciate the 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.800 analogy that you're using there about you know, because people 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:24.080 have wanted to send money to Ukraine, and if you 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:26.880 are a person in Russia, that's definitely not something that 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:30.520 you necessarily want the Secret Service knocking on your door about. 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:35.520 But like more prosaically, it's very similar to the conversations 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:39.319 and technology around like encrypted messaging, and you know, various 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:41.679 government officials will say, well, you can use encrypted messaging 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:43.640 for terrorism. I'm like, yeah, but you could also just 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:45.560 use encrypted messaging because you want to talk to your 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:48.360 friends and you don't want anybody advertising at you. So 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:50.840 these this is I think a good example of like 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:53.880 issues that affect many parts of tech and many parts 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.280 of the world really playing out in crypto. But there's 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:00.240 something else that you said around, you know, the day 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:05.680 of people using Tornado cash to send crypto two people 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:09.079 with known public accounts and like the legal gray area 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:11.960 there can you can you just elaborate on that a 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:14.240 little bit more so? The the idea is that if 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:16.680 the sanctions are to be applied, then you're not supposed 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:19.480 to receive any funds from tornado cash, right, So if 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.360 someone sending me, even if I don't want it, sending 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:25.560 me funds through Tornado Cash, then potentially am I implicated? 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:28.160 Am I violating a U S sanction? I mean, just 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:31.079 the absurdity of that is you know interesting. Is it's 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:34.840 worth contemplating, right because it just shows that there's a 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:37.640 level of thinking that goes into how we regulate this 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:39.840 in the future and how we think about money laundering 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:42.040 in a sort of Web point three world. That is 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:44.400 kind of something that we really need to think about 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:46.520 now before it gets to the stage where we haven't 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:48.760 thought about the rules to govern a world like this, 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:53.160 and that is possible because of you know, the idea 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:55.440 of a public wallet, right, So like one of the 0:09:55.520 --> 0:10:00.000 people who had ether in this case sent to him 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.200 through Tornado Cash was Brian Armstrong, see you of coin 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:06.000 based that we just talked about. And that's possible because 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:08.240 his his wallet address, which is like your bank account 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:10.319 for crypto, is just like available on the internet. You're like, 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:13.600 that's Brian Armstrong's wallet address or one of them. Most 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:16.280 people in other parts of their lives, like aren't walking 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:19.520 around and advertising their bank accounts. So it's very hard 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:22.200 to imagine a scenario in which you know, a person 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:26.200 in Iran or Cuba or you know, North Korea could 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:29.880 just like send you money or send you something with 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:32.560 no ability, with no consent or your ability to even 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:35.240 know that that's happening. And there's you know, I think 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.079 as you say, and like the important thing is there 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:40.840 some of these nuances in crypto that will really be 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:44.400 forcing regulators to have to think differently and especially lawyers 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:47.959 to have to think differently about these things. One thing 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:51.280 I want to note is if it is the case, 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.280 like if for some reason one of the people who 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:59.720 did receive that you know, anonymously sent crypto via Tornado 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:03.360 cat were held to be in breach of sanctions. Right, 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:06.240 So take a theoretical example, the Treasury is like, ha ha, 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.640 you person have been interacting with something on the sanctions list. 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:13.080 The consequences for them would be not at all fun 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:18.000 because what could happen is that wallet could get frozen, 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:21.120 So any you know, not just the amount that they received, 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:23.080 but any of their crypto in that while it could 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:27.480 get frozen, they could get kicked off of any exchanges 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:30.640 or even you know, non exchanges or like banks that 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:32.880 they might be a part of. You know, being a 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:35.960 sanctioned individual, being a person on a sanctions list is 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:40.199 a pretty stiff and severe penalty. Um, So we will 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:42.760 definitely be keeping an eye on if anybody gets pulled 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:45.920 into this dragnet unawares. Yeah, it's interesting because it was 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:49.880 basically crypto trolling sort of the the U. S. Government, 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:52.720 but in a way creating some lines to think about 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.840 that go beyond the actual events of what happened. We'll 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:58.240 be right back with a look at some of the 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:00.960 crypto trends were watching this week. You'll keep hearing from 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:23.800 Bloomberg editors Dave Lika and Anna Arera Well. Dave I 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:25.000 want to go back to you on that point of 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.160 who's making money right now. One of those things we 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:29.040 saw this week in crypto was kind of like a 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:33.240 run up in ether prices. And we've talked on this 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:36.400 podcast about, you know, the dynamics of ether and that 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.719 folks are thinking about what's called the merge, but as 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:42.320 it seems to actually be happening now, can you just 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:45.320 give us a recap on what we're seeing and why sure? 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:47.680 I mean, all you're here probably the next month is 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:50.679 going to be the merge. The merge on it. You 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:56.600 have the software upgrade where the Ethereum network goes from 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:02.640 very energy intensive processed to validate transactions to where they'll 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:07.599 go to something called validators on its and everybody is 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:11.160 season on this right now. You mentioned Brian Armstrong. He 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:14.920 actually mentioned um a product that they're offering. It's called 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:19.599 staking on coin Base on it, and staking is basically 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:21.800 how you make money off this as a as a 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:26.080 validator on it, you allow your Ethereum to be used 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:28.920 in the process to complete the transaction on it. And 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.920 it's in this environment it's actually kind of the perfect 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:34.960 thing in the sense that it's like passive income on it, 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:37.839 especially with a we're in a bad market like this, 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:41.440 so this is almost like clipping coupons in the old 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:44.800 days of the bond market on it instead of everybody 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:47.600 just looking for a huge appreciation in the in the 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:51.480 price of a various token on it. So you could 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:53.760 be hearing more and more of it, and the risk 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:58.400 is it happens, it goes smooth, and then it's okay, 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:03.000 what next, Well, what is next that is to be 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.720 seen on it? I guess the big question really beyond 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:10.200 that is to see if more people do gravitate towards ethereum. 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:14.160 Ethereum was kind of introduced as probably the second most 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:18.559 prominent crypto after Bitcoin. I'm on it and it was 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:22.400 basically labeled as bitcoin two point oh. You can actually 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:26.920 do a lot more with it, complete transactions over it 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:30.560 that include embedded contracts, that type of thing on it. 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:35.320 Bitcoin has basically been left as really a store value 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:39.320 of these days and hasn't really worked obviously as a currency. 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:43.440 But this is being promoted as a utility and whether 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:45.920 people will actually start to use it for more things 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:50.880 is to be seen. When we talk about the utility 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:54.960 of things like ethereum. The Ethereum the blockchain ether the token. 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:57.440 One of the use cases that comes up a lot 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:01.280 is like smart contracts and f ts. You know, it's 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.480 it's you know. One one thing we've said here is 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:06.600 that like if somebody has heard of crypto, they've probably 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:08.240 heard of either bitcoin or in a n f T, 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:13.080 and there are there's a lot of reporting and evidence 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:14.800 that for some people, like n f T s were 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:20.120 their gateway into into crypto. If this merge happens, what's 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:21.840 going to happen to n f T holders, Like is 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.280 it clear whether your n f T will continue to 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:27.200 be accessible if you know, kind of have two different 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:29.520 sorts of blockchains, or though some of the questions that 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:33.120 people are working through, well, it seems to be. We've 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:36.320 actually had a lot of news come out recently from 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:40.400 people who are basically things like stable coins, which serve 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.080 as kind of the lifeblood of the industry, saying we're 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:47.800 going to work with Ethereum on the upgrade on it 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:50.320 will continue to do our transactions there, so you should 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:52.680 be fine. Now there's a minority of people who say, 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:55.360 we like how things are being done, we're going to 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:59.600 break off from a theoreum and um. Then it becomes 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.160 a question, and Okay, if if you're on that chain, 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:04.680 are you going to be able to interact with other folks? 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:08.480 It just rises a whole raises a whole level of complication, right. 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:11.440 It's so it's almost like you'll have kind of what 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:14.240 happened with Tera and Luna, right this idea, and actually 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:18.920 with Ethereum before we there's already an existing chain of 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:23.040 Ethereum called Ethereum Classic. So now we'll have Ethereum Classic, 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:28.200 Ethereum Classic too, and then Ethereum. Now there's bitcoin, there's 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:32.480 bitcoin cash, there's Bitcoin Classic, There's been various Bitcoin Gold 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:35.200 has been other ones talked about over the years. It's 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:40.160 it's a little bit like a divorce and I'm one programmers. 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:44.040 After the disagreement, um, some succeed and live on, other 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.320 ones die out. Well, this this is definitely something that 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:49.720 is driving the markets and we will continue to be 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:52.160 paying attention to so stay tuned for more on that. 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:55.160 Um Anna, Dave, I know we have to get back 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:57.520 to work, so we're gonna we're gonna wrap it up. 0:16:57.520 --> 0:16:59.800 But thank you both for taking the time today, No problem, 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:03.560 I thank you. You can find all of our work 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:06.959 on the Bloomberg terminal on Bloomberg dot com and on Twitter, 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:11.520 you'll find Anna at at anna Arera that's I R 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:15.920 R e r A, and Dave is at d Litka 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:21.280 that's d l i E d t k A. On 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:24.280 the next episode of Bloomberg Crypto. In late spring of 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:29.760 after China banned all bitcoin mining, many Chinese miners headed 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.240 to the sunny state of Texas. With a unique power grid, 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:38.119 relatively attractive energy prices, and a relaxed approach to regulation, 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:41.560 Texas seemed like it was the place to be in 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:45.720 things are looking a little bit different. A combination of 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:50.640 power outages, extreme temperatures, and declining bitcoin prices are making 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:54.280 it harder and harder for crypto minors to maintain their profitability. 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:56.800 To better understand what all of this means, I'll be 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.760 joined by Bloomberg Reports of David Pan and by Ethan Vera, 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:07.800 who's the CEO and co founder of Luxer Technology. This 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.879 is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg and I 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:14.240 Heart Radio. For more shows from I heart Radio, visit 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:17.240 the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:21.320 get your podcasts. Send us your comments, questions, or suggestions 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:24.399 for the show. To Crypto at Bloomberg dot net or 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:29.639 find us on Twitter. We're at Crypto. The supervising producer 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:33.280 of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky ver Galina. Our senior producer 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:38.840 is Janet Babin. Our producer is Sharon Burriro. Associate producer 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:43.400 is Thy Butler. Desta wonder At is our engineer. Original 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:48.280 music by Leo Sidrin. I'm Stacy, Marie Ishmael. Have a 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:48.879 great weekend.