WEBVTT - Bonus: Matt Levine Talks Elon 0:00:05.720 --> 0:00:08.039 Hey, this is David Popotoppolis, and boy do we have 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:10.880 a fun bonus for you today. There's a new podcast 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:14.800 in our Bloomberg family called money Stuff. The podcast hosted 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:18.360 by our friends Matt Levine and Katie Greifeld. Every week, 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:21.360 they talk about Wall Street, finance, and all the other 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:25.520 stuff that Matt covers in his wildly popular newsletter money Stuff. 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:28.840 Maybe you've heard of it. Of course, you can't talk 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:34.120 about money stuff without talking about a one mister Elon Musk, 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:37.519 and in their most recent episode, Matt and Katie discussed 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:40.920 Elon in the upcoming shareholder vote on his pay package. 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:43.240 We thought you might get a kick out of their conversation, 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:46.479 so we're sharing an excerpt with you here. If you 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:48.760 want to listen to the whole episode, we'll leave a 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:50.960 link in the show notes, or you can find it 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:54.560 by searching money Stuff the podcast wherever you listen to 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:57.720 your podcasts. The elon In crew will be back in 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:00.320 your feed tomorrow with a brand new episode. 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:04.919 Hello and welcome to the money Stuff podcast, your weekly 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:08.800 podcast where we talk about stuff related to money. Hi'm 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:11.880 Matt Levie. I've read the Money Stuff colin for Bloomberg Opinion. 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:13.280 And I'm Katie Greifeld. 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:15.560 I'm a reporter for Bloomberg News and an anchor for 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:16.560 Bloomberg Television. 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:17.919 It's the best day of our lives. 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:20.600 It is the best day of our lives, which happens 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:21.920 every day on Fridays. 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:23.880 We have a lot to talk about today. We have 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:25.000 to talk about Elon Musk. 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:27.240 Of course, we had a whole week with that Elon Musk. 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:28.839 I think, I know it was weird that we didn't 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:30.320 get to it in the first week. So we'll talk 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:33.440 about Elon Musk in that pay package fifty six billion dollars, 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:35.960 and of course his issues with Delaware. We're also going 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:40.520 to talk about Jane Street versus Millennium. You just published 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:40.840 on this. 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:42.640 By the time you heard this podcast, I will have 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:45.679 published on it roughly twenty four hours ago, recording it 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:47.240 shortly after I published on it. 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:49.640 It's Thursday right now, and Matt published twenty minutes ago. 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:51.960 So this is the one I'm least prepared for, as 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:55.200 we're also going to talk about Hunter Brook, the hedge Fund. 0:01:55.240 --> 0:02:02.520 That's also a newspaper question Mark. Indeed, before we get 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:05.440 into this week's topics, it's our second episode. 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:07.600 It's our second episode. We got a lot of feedback 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:08.800 On the first episode, we got a. 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:09.560 Lot of feedback. 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:12.440 A lot of it was about all of it comment 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:13.880 that I made about. 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:14.880 The doped Olympics. 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:18.160 Surprise, they already exist and they're funded by Peter Thiel. 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:20.200 Well, it don't exist. They're like launching. 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:23.880 Yeah, the idea is out there, the enhanced Games that 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:27.160 would have no drug testing. So if you didn't want 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:29.480 to do it performance enhancing drugs, you could still enter. 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:31.320 You would just lose, yes, or you could do the 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:33.200 regular Olympics, which you'll still have drug testing. 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:34.959 Yeah, and you'll probably still lose. 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.880 I wonder if, like presumably day one, the best athletes 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:39.400 will still do the regular Olympics. 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:39.760 Yeah. 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:41.760 I wonder how long it'll take for the Enhanced Olympics 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:44.880 to have faster times and it jumps. 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:46.440 It's a great question because if you're. 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:47.919 Like the tenth best track athlete and you do a 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:49.359 lot of drugs better than the. 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:53.720 Best, probably there's only one way to find out. 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:55.280 So is going to do it? 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:56.480 These games need to happen. 0:02:56.680 --> 0:03:00.919 The event roster includes individual sports such as athletics meaning 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:05.639 track and field, aquatics, gymnastics, strength and combat. I would 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:06.520 watch these. 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:10.440 But what we don't have on that list. 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:12.480 Is drissage. 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:19.359 Trissage Yeah, for the uninitiated, dressage is horse dancing effectively, 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:22.000 just go on YouTube look it up. It's a ridiculous 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:24.720 sport that, for better or worse, I've partake in. I'm 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.480 not sure if when I enter the enhanced games, which 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:30.240 I will, whether I take the drugs, the horse takes 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:32.920 the drugs. Do we both take the drugs the drugs? 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.640 Have you or your horse ever been like offered drugs? 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.600 Has ever been like a controversy at your dressage? 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:41.760 We're not that good maybe in higher levels of the sport, 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:45.240 but what we're doing, it's very loosely dressage. 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:51.680 Let's talk about the time, moving gracefully along. Elon Musk. 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:54.320 The big news this week is that Tesla came out 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:57.920 with their proxy statement. Two items of interest. They're going 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:01.040 to have shareholders to vote again on that twenty eighteen 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:04.120 pay package of fifty six billion dollars that was voided 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:07.400 by a Delaware judge, and related to that, they're going 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.400 to vote on whether to move Tesla's state of incorporation 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:12.680 from Delaware to Texas. 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:13.520 What do you want to start with? 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:17.719 They're interrelated, Yes, right, he got paid a giant snack 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:20.400 of options in about twenty eighteen. Everyone says they're worth 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:23.839 fifty six billion dollars. Whatever they're worth, like forty billion dollars, 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:26.440 fifty billion dollars, just like a conventional number that people 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:28.080 attached to it because you know, go up and down 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:29.599 with the stock. But right now they're with forty billion 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:33.000 dollars and judge took them away in January. I said 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:35.200 that was too much to pay him and it wasn't 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:37.560 properly approved by the shareholders. And so they're going back 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:40.560 to the shareholders to one get it properly approved and 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:43.039 two never has to deal with the Delaware judge again 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:44.400 because they're going to move to Texas. 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:47.320 Like you said, these are two intimately related issues. But 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:49.800 sticking with the pay package, which everyone is saying is 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:52.599 fifty six billion dollars, maybe it's forty billion dollars, but 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:55.599 the vote is in June. Yeah, are they going to 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:57.320 approve it again these shareholders? 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.000 I think so. The proxy quits a lot of letters 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.760 from individual shareholders saying how much they love Elon Musk 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:05.000 and how they're going to approve it. And also, by 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:08.280 the way, letters from like trope price right big shareholders too. 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:10.240 It's interesting if you were a S. Sherelder in like 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:12.760 twenty twenty one, or even like December of last year, 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:14.840 I think you would say this pay package was worth it. 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:16.520 In twenty eighteen, they said we're going to pay youl 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:19.359 On Musk fifty six billion dollars if he takes the 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:21.760 market cap of Tesla from like sixty billion dollars, like 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:24.280 six hundred and fifty billion dollars, And at the time 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:27.440 that seemed like a real stretch goal. And then he 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:32.120 did it really quickly, and so all the shareholders got rich, 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:34.120 like they made a lot of money on Tesla, and 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:36.839 I think they felt a real sense of gratitude, and 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.279 so I think very few shoholders were complaining about his 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:42.000 pay package, but one did ensued. Right, Yes, I think 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:44.560 the shareholders were happy with it. But now if you 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:47.479 go back to them and say you want to reprove 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:49.880 it again, they could be like, we already got whatever 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:51.640 he did. He did the stuff that made it a 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:55.000 six hundred and fifty billion dollar company, So if we 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:57.400 can get those passed efforts for free, why shouldn't they 0:05:57.400 --> 0:05:59.080 get it for free. They feel grateful, but did they 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.520 feel fifty six billion dollars grateful? But that' said if 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:03.800 you're a Tesla scherolder at this point, you're playing a 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:07.480 longer game, and rightly or wrongly, I think Tesla sherolders 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:12.640 assume that Elon Musk and his continued affection are essential 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:15.000 to the value of Tesla stock. And so if they 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:18.320 vote down this paypackage, like, will he quit in a huff? 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.040 Maybe he's got a lot going on, right, He's got 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:23.599 a lot of distractions, so he could quit in a huff. 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:28.680 And although his mercurial stewardship has not been great for 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:30.160 the stock price in the last couple of years, he 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:31.880 quits in a huff, that's going to take the stock. 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:34.599 Think, Yeah, I mean the stock's already down forty percent 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:35.080 year to day. 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:37.680 Yeah, Like it's been a rough ride. But still I 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:39.919 think they want him there. It's not like if they 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:41.800 vote this dan, he'll come back and be like, Okay, fine, 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:43.760 can you be like two billion dollars? Like I think, like, 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:45.680 if they vote this down, he's going to be really mad, 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:46.600 really mad. 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.279 I guess I have two kind of related points to that, 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:51.920 to what you're saying, what is the key man risk 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:55.320 to Tesla, Like how much does Tesla need Elon Musk 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:58.000 at this point is something I think about all the time. 0:06:58.240 --> 0:06:59.960 This is an established company at this point. 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:01.919 No, I agree with that it's an established company. They 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:03.680 could probably operate on its own. It's not like the 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:06.040 stock has been continuing to go out from strength to strength. 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:08.039 It's been a rough time. I do think that there's 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:10.440 probably still a valuation premium for Elon Musk, And I 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:14.120 think like it's a somewhat retail have you stocked the 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:16.040 a lot of people who like Elon Musk and the stock, 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:18.320 And I think if he were to leave, that would 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:20.640 be bad. But I'm not sure of that in the 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:22.400 way that I might have been in like twenty twenty one. 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:22.840 Yeah. 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:24.560 I also think, by the way, whatever your sort of 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.160 economic calculation, I do think that some of the sheolders 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:29.040 at least are like, we agreed to pay him to 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:33.240 these options. We voted on it a court in a 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:38.160 weird technical opinion strike that down, and we don't think 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.440 that's fair. We think it's like bad for corporate democracy 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:43.920 and also bad for like fairness to Elon Musk, And 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:46.040 so we're going to give him that fifty six billion 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:48.760 dollars back anyway. I think there's probably some of that 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:51.720 going on among some of the shell including some of 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:52.880 the institutional shoolders. 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:57.600 Even if this is approved, we'll just get avoided again. 0:07:57.640 --> 0:07:59.800 Like how does this work if they approve it again. 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.400 It's a fascinating question, I think, and Tesla thinks the 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:05.600 answer is that if they approve it again, this time 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.280 it will stick, right, because what happened last time is 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:10.840 they approved it and the judge found that the shaholders 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:13.280 were not fully informed of all the conflicts of interest 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:17.880 involved in setting his pay package. Now they're fully informed, 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:20.640 in part because, like Tesla went back and gave disclosures, 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:22.840 but also they just detached the judge's opinion to the 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:25.240 proxy statement to be like anything that the judge found 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:28.240 bad here, you can read it right. So I think 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:30.520 they have to be fully informed. There's no problem with 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:35.200 the vote, but the law and this is not super clear, 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.360 and they say in the proxy statement, we're not totally 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:40.319 sure what the effect of this will be. I think 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:43.560 there's some argument that the disgruntled shaholder can sue again 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:47.680 and the judge again gets to decide if the pay 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:50.080 package is fair, and we kind of know she thinks 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:52.640 it isn't so it might get struckt. But the other 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:53.760 thing I want to say is that I don't know 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:55.880 what the disgruntled cherold. There's a guy named Richard turnouta. 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:56.960 I don't know what he thinks. I don't know if 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:58.400 he wants to do this again. But you know who 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:02.800 cares his lawyers who when they won in the Delaware 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:05.640 court and they strike down this fifty six billion dollar 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:07.520 pay package. They went to the court and they said, 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:09.960 we want five point six billion dollars worth of Tesla 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:13.480 stock as a fee for this win. Right, And their 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:16.600 theory is, we saved shareholders all this money by clawing 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:18.840 back the fifty six billion dollars from Elon Musk. If 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:20.720 the shareholders give you On Musk the fifty six billion 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:22.520 dollars back, they haven't gotten the fee yet, right, it's 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:24.959 still in court. Yeah, if they give the money back, 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.960 what is their argument that they save the shareholders any money? Like, Yeah, 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:31.160 They've got a lot of money riding on the argument 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.360 that Musk's compensation actually got clawed back, so they care. 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:38.079 Yeah, let's talk about the second part of what happened Texas. 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:40.320 Are they going to run into this problem again in 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:42.040 Texas moving to Texas. 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:43.920 What does that do for Tesla? 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:47.280 They say that moving to Texas makes sense because they're 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.280 big factories in Texas, their headquarters in Texas. Elon lives 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:52.840 in Texas, and so they have to meet their incorporation 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:55.320 to Texas because that just makes sense. No other company 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:56.880 thinks that, right, Like, that's not really a thing, Like 0:09:56.920 --> 0:09:59.600 every company is incorporated in Delaware and very few are 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:03.160 located in Delaware. But it's what they say. The answer is, 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:05.360 nobody knows. There's a lot of Delaware corporate law and 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.760 there's not a lot of corporate law anywhere else because 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:11.560 most big companies that have big lawsuits are incorporated in Delaware, 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:13.560 and so that's where all the cases are, Tesla says, 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:16.960 And it's proxy that they think the law in Texas 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:19.319 is mostly the same as the law in Delaware. I 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:24.560 think it's probably true. But everyone kind of assumes that 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:29.440 if this had all happened in Texas, and if a 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:32.160 shareholder had sued Elon Musk in Texas to get back 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:35.040 the fifty six billion dollars, a Texas judge would have 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:38.400 been like, nah, Elon Musk can keep that money. There's 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:42.120 no basis for assuming that nobody knows. It seems that way, 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:44.800 and clearly Elon Musk assumes it because as soon as 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:47.200 the Delaware opinion came out, he's like, we're moving to Texas. 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:50.120 By the way, that happened, the opinion came out and 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:51.800 he was like, we're moving to Texas right away. He 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:53.880 was saying it on Twitter. But Tesla now and it's 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:56.520 proxy statement has to explain why it's moving to Texas, 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:00.440 and it describes this very thorough process that did to 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.640 evaluate moving to Texas. So it formed a special committee 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:06.600 of independent directors. There's one person on the committee, was 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.320 this name Elon Musk. No, no, it's a truly independent director. 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.240 Her name is Kathleen Wilson Thompson. The special committee met 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:15.320 sixteen times for more than twenty six hours, says the Proxy, 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.679 which is like a fun thing to imagine, Like I 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:21.640 first imagined it as like I met four hours today 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:23.760 with the money stuff Committee. Like I was like typing 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:25.360 on my computer. I was like, oh, there's a meeting. 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:27.559 But in fact she met with like her lawyers, so 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:29.319 she did. There were real meetings, but just she was 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:33.119 the only director at the meetings, but they the committee 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:36.319 evaluated all fifty states to decide. It's like throwing darts, 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:38.280 being like, which state should we move to, and like 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:40.559 it just so happens that the best state turned out 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:44.240 to be Texas. Coincidentally, the same thing that Elon Musk 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:46.360 was treating about like two months ago. It's beautiful, So 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:47.400 it worked out nicely. 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:49.240 Yeah, it's good that it turned out that way. 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:50.839 By the way, you asked her, if the laws move 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:53.600 with them. I wrote this before there's some small chance 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:57.559 of a Delaware judge saying, no, you're not allowed to 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.400 move to Texas because you're only moving to Texas to 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:01.200 pay Elon. 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:03.640 Musk more and which seems to reasonable. 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:06.360 That is like a violation of your pretty shadds to 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:09.320 your Delaware shareholders, so we're gonna stop you. I wrote 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:11.160 that in like January. I thought that was like some 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:14.200 extremely funny theoretical chance of that happening. Since then, there's 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.520 been like a Delaware court decision that makes it less likely. 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:19.760 So I don't think that's gonna happen, but it would 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:20.600 be really funny. 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:22.400 So I have one point, and I also have a question. 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:24.880 I guess I'll start with the point and that is 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:28.480 that there is like a human psychology component to this, 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:32.520 because I remember when this happened in January that it 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:36.280 was voided this pay package. My suggestion to Elon Musk 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.959 would be, why don't you just have Tesla do a dividends. 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:41.800 Mark Zuckerberg did that with Meta. Now he's going to 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:44.679 make like seven hundred million dollars a year. Mark Zuckerberg 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.440 obviously owns a lot more Meta share, so it makes 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.320 more sense there. But you made the point to me 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.960 that Elon Musk isn't trying to make normal extremely wealthy 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:58.800 man money. He has like insane aspirations that he needs all. 0:12:58.679 --> 0:12:59.240 This money for. 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:01.520 He owns it. My aloraity of Tesla, he's a controlling herl. 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:03.200 Everybody owns like twenty percent of the stock, so a 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.360 dividend would go mostly to other people, and like they're 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:07.160 not so rolling in cash, they could pay at like 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:09.679 tens of billions of dollars or dividends. Mark Zuckerwood gets 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:12.480 a dividend because he likes to go water skiing or 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:14.480 whatever it is that he does, right, hoverboarding, He. 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:16.920 Has cows, right house, Yeah, archery. 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.320 I don't know all sorts of normal things hobbies. Yeah, 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:22.520 like moderately expensive hobbies some of them. But Elon Musk's 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:27.360 hobbies are like brain implants, going to Mars, buying Twitter. 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:31.040 I'm forgetting a few, but like, he's not like looking 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.080 to spend money on a nice vacation. He's looking to 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:36.520 have tens of billions of dollars to fund going to Mars, 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.960 and so he needs these giant pay packages every now 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:41.520 and then to pursue his next ambition. 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:43.679 You're not going to get that from your dividend checks. 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:46.120 And then my question for you is, what do you 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:49.280 think is the most interesting way that this proxy. 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:49.800 Vote could turn out? 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:53.280 What would be the most interesting chain of events for you? 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.199 Look, I love the idea of a Delaware court preventing 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:58.640 Musk from leaving for Texas. I think that would be 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:02.439 extremely funny. But I actually think the simpler answer is funnier, 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:05.360 which is if the shareholders vote this down, that's wild. 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.080 Like he'll quit in a huff on Twitter like that day. Yeah, 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:12.040 it'll be an amazing thread of tweets and it will 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:17.040 be an amazing corporate debacle. Whatever time he's devoting to Tesla, 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:19.440 he'll go and devote to some other wild thing and 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:22.840 that'll be wild, and Tesla will like find its way, 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.320 as you know, it'll get back that fifty million dollars 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:27.200 and find its way as a company not controlled by 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:30.560 a wild, wild sequence of events. 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:33.080 Now, in my mind, would be the most interesting scenario 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:34.880 as well, and then we could truly find out what 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:36.200 the Elon Musk premium is. 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:38.440 The thing about Elon Musk companies is that if you're 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:41.160 an investor in Elon Musk companies, like you like Elon Musk, 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:43.280 like that's just how it goes, right, Like you're not 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:45.920 there because you like the assets but think they're mismanaged, 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:47.960 Like you're there because you like Elon Musk. It would 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:51.360 be really shocking for the investors in an Elon Musk 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:54.280 company to vote against them in such a striking way. 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.480 Do you want to talk about Elon Musk for like 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:58.440 twenty five more minutes or do you think we should 0:14:58.480 --> 0:14:58.720 move on? 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.360 I saw your look of like I have wrapped this 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.840 up so nicely, and then Matt comes in with more stuff. 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:07.920 I have some more stuff, but if're gonna wrap it up, never. 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.120 Mind, Stay tuned, Stay tuned. 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:11.280 There's always more lock. 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:21.520 If you want to listen to the whole episode. We'll 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:23.680 leave a link in the show notes, or you can 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:27.280 find it by searching money Stuff the podcast wherever you 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.400 listen to your podcasts. The elon Ink crew will be 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:34.640 back in your feed tomorrow with a brand new episode.