WEBVTT - Love and Re-Action 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:11.400 This is the Anxiety Bites podcast and I am your host, 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:17.320 Jen Kirkman. Welcome to another episode of Anxiety Bites. I 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:20.919 am your host Jen Kirkman. So this week's episode and 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:27.600 next week's will be focused on love, anxiety, love and 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:33.360 anxiety together. The pressures of society to find love, to 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:35.960 keep love, to stay in love when it's not working 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:40.120 for you, everything, the pressures of society to spend time 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:43.360 with yourself, but only if it's a road to eventually 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:46.879 finding love. All of that, and so I thought that 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:49.640 it would be cool to do too Love episodes back 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:54.160 to back around the Valentine's Day season, because even if 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.840 you're single and Valentine's Day doesn't torture you personally, even 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:01.000 though you don't sit at home in February, a team thinking, oh, 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:03.400 I wish I was at an overpriced dinner right now 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:06.920 with a million other people in a packed restaurant during 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:08.880 a pandemic. I mean, that is the height of romance. 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:15.199 Even if you're not actually lamenting that you're not taking 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:20.600 part in this holiday, the pressure exists. And you know, 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:23.200 we talk about how Instagram has been really bad for 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:26.400 the mental health of teenagers because they see perfect images 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:28.520 and it can cause eating disorders, and it can cause 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:34.080 even feelings of um feeling suicidal. For adults, I think 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:38.319 this same thing exists. I mean, obviously it does. We 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:41.000 all have Instagram, and I think it reduces us to, 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:44.200 you know, teenagers when we look at it in the 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:48.800 sense that you may be feeling fine on Valentine's Day 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:52.360 until you look at an Instagram and you see your 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:55.560 friends and they're all at something. You know, oh my 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.320 partner got me this, and oh and so much love. 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:00.720 Then I look at these roses and blah blah, and 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:02.760 even though you might not want that stuff, even if 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:05.800 you were in a relationship, you would issue Valentine's Day 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:09.320 and say, I really don't need the pomp and circumstance 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:12.120 of Valentine's Day. I can celebrate our love any day 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:14.240 of the week. I really truly do not want to 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:18.840 go to an overpriced restaurant. It's it's too much. And 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:20.280 you know what, they're not even gonna let us sit 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:21.840 there and linger because they got to turn over the 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:25.120 tables because there's a reservation list a mile long. And 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:27.120 I really don't even like red roses, and they prick 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:29.720 your fingers anyway, and you know, I don't I don't 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:32.200 even like chocolate. This none of this appeals to me. 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:35.880 But then you see someone you know in an intimate 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:38.200 moment with their partners, showing you only the best of 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:42.720 their relationship, and you get that paying of not jealousy 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:45.600 that you want literally what your friend has, or that 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:48.079 you don't want them to have it, but just what's 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:52.520 wrong with me? And if at all, listening to these 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:56.000 episodes helps to normalize that nothing is wrong with you. 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.720 Everybody is sometimes singles. Sometimes in a relationship, it's it's 0:02:59.880 --> 0:03:03.880 ed as it flows, but sometimes there are actual reasons 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:06.359 why if you are looking for a relationship that you 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:09.760 might find yourself kind of hitting the same wall over 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:12.360 and over. And we'll talk more about that next week 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:14.840 when I talked to a therapist about attachment styles. But 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:17.360 this week with Chelsea, I thought it was fun to 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:22.880 look behind the person that she's been and that she's presented, 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:27.240 you know, over the last decade. And obviously none of 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:30.840 this is an exclusive. She does this herself in all 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.880 of her work and her social media and her comedy. 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:38.000 But I've known Chelsea intimately for at least fifteen years. 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:40.040 She used to be my boss. I wrote for her 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:42.560 on the show Chelsea Lately. I appeared on Chelsea Lately 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:46.000 and after Lately. I've toured with her and she's a 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:50.200 friend of mine, and so what I loved about chatting 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:56.400 with her is how from going to therapy, I can 0:03:56.440 --> 0:04:01.440 see how differently Chelsea handles intimacy. I can guarantee you 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:07.480 if I had done this interview before her years of therapy, well, 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:09.840 I wouldn't have had reason to, because we I've talked 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:12.960 about things she learned in therapy. But hypothetically, if I had, 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:15.360 she would have been kind enough to agree to do it. 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:18.000 She would have had fun in her own way doing it, 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:20.320 but there'd be a lot of turning the focus on me, 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:24.440 I think, and a lot of joking, but kind of 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:28.440 you know, that kind of joking that pushes rather than 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:34.880 pulls someone in. And now she really is very different 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:37.640 than than she used to be. I sense this ability 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:40.920 in her to have this intimacy and connection, and she 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:44.040 doesn't seem afraid of what might be thrown at her, 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:47.600 which probably sounds weird to people that don't know her. 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:51.800 I mean comedically, no, not afraid of anything being thrown 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:54.880 at her, but but as a person I've always thought, 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:57.960 I know you can go deeper. I know you can 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:01.400 go deeper, and and she has. And so I've been 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:05.400 in her life throughout all of her um significant relationships 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:09.680 and as she has with some of mine, and it's 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:14.520 always been interesting to me that sometimes she seemed like 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:20.120 just like just uncomfortable, not into the relationship she was in, 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:25.320 and you could misdiagnose that as, oh, she is intimacy issues, 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:27.880 you know. And I was going through similar things in 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:30.640 my relationships and I was definitely, I think, misdiagnosed a 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:34.080 few times with intimacy issues. And by misdiagnosed, I mean 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:36.960 just that kind of popular wisdom I don't really mean 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:39.880 by a therapist, but that popular wisdom, Oh, you're not 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:42.400 really feeling connected to your partner, who we all love, 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:45.880 we think is great intimacy issues and it's like, sure, 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:48.680 let's take it apart. Maybe there are some intimacy issues, 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:51.039 but it doesn't mean you're with the right partner, and 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.240 if you work on your intimacy issues, things will go 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:57.080 swimmingly with that partner. If someone has intimacy issues, they're 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:02.240 most likely also picking the wrong partner. So that kind 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:07.000 of sloppy in between where we're kind of listening to 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:10.800 just you know, colloquial things people say. I think you 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.240 can keep a lot of us stuff. So I wanted 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.120 to talk to Chelsea from the other side of all 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:19.080 of this growth and find out, you know, as someone 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:21.840 who really never copped dabbing any anxiety, or maybe she 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:24.039 didn't think she did, but there are deep hurts in 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:27.440 her life that she hadn't looked at. And you know, 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:31.240 she was on a mission to become successful and she 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:34.240 wants and it's but at the end of the day, 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:38.080 that doesn't cure those deep wounds that we have to 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:41.359 work on by going internally and doing the work. And 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.159 so I wanted to show a real life example of 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:45.440 that and then also celebrate that she's in love and 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.520 she's telling everyone and I think it's great now. A 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.400 lot of times it can be very annoying when people 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:54.680 do that, and I think it's because when some people 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:58.200 are doing that, they are trying to prove it to themselves. 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:00.520 And just because I've known her for so long, I 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:05.920 honestly know the difference that she's just trying to bring 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:08.360 everyone into it, if that makes sense, you know, if 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:12.560 you want to be inspired that you'll find someone like 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:14.880 she did. You can be inspired if you want to 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:18.160 be inspired by well, it takes this much work to 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:19.760 get to know ourselves so that we can have healthy 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:22.880 relationships with just all people be inspired by that. I 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:24.880 mean one of the things right that people do on 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:28.040 Valentine's Days, Gallantine's stating hang out with their girlfriends. And 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:29.880 I don't know why this is restricted to women, but 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.480 maybe we're the most victimized by this holiday. I don't know, 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:36.960 but uh. Chelsea and I also talked about the intimacy 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:41.840 of friendships and how that actually is as important as 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:45.880 it's It's as important, you know, on the road to 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:50.360 finding out how to do intimacy in relationships romantic relationships. 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:54.480 So anyway, I hope you enjoy my discussion with Chelsea. 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:57.520 She needs no introduction, but I will remind you that 0:07:57.640 --> 0:07:59.560 she is the best selling author of many books. Her 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:02.040 latest is called Life Will Be the Death of Me 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:04.760 and You two, and we do reference a story in 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:07.760 that book about her brother. Chelsea is also on a 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.400 stand up tour right now all over the country, selling out. 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:14.400 It's called the Vaccinated and Horny Tour, and she recently 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:19.880 won a People's Choice award in for Best Comedy Act Award, 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.680 and oh how could I forget? She has her own 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:27.680 podcast here on I Heart Radio. Um, we're all just 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:30.520 one big, happy family here on iHeart Radio. She's got 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:34.600 her own podcast on iHeart Radio called Dear Chelsea, which 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:37.079 you can check out after you listen to this episode, 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:42.120 of course. And here is my conversation with Chelsea Hamlet. 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:48.439 Are you still in therapy? Chelsea? Let me let me 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:50.559 make one more comment about that. I mean, isn't it 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:54.599 ironic that Paul Rod just got crowned with the sexiest 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:58.680 man alive like People magazine cover, while he's also playing 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:02.760 the most unfussable character and the world totally. And I 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:06.120 think I guess that's the that's the sum total of 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:08.839 his sex appeal, is that. I mean, I'm personally not 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:12.400 all up in arms about him, but you know, I 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.640 because people find him sexy. Yeah no, I don't. I 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.000 actually find his character sexier than him in a weird 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.640 way because he's so fu U. I find Will Ferrell sexy. 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:27.520 I love He's just so great that he's fuckable, you 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:30.319 know what I mean. He's such a good guy that 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:34.240 whatever he's he's I love him He's so vulnerable in 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:36.559 that show that it almost hurts to watch. Sometimes. I 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:41.040 feel so sad, and I'm glad that it's I'm glad 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:43.000 that the real story has been settled, and I'm glad 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:46.000 it's not really happening right now in real time. UM So, 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:52.400 speaking of therapy, Chelsea, Handler, you are in therapy? Continued continuant, continuant. 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:55.720 I'm a god fucking no, never mind, definitely not the Chelsea. 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.920 Are you in therapy right now? No? Uh no, I'm 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:02.880 not in therapy right I haven't been for a while now. UM. 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:06.199 I mean, like, if I have something come up and 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:09.880 I think I need help with like a conversation or something, 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:13.760 I'll call him. But I haven't done that in a 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:16.200 long time. And I really think that therapy is something 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:18.319 that you have to do for at least for me. 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:20.920 But I would I would guess it's probably this way 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:24.160 for many people. That you have to sit and absorb 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:26.720 and absorb and absorb, and then you have to go away. 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:28.840 Just like you had to go away from your parents, 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.840 you need to go away from your therapist and absorb 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:35.640 everything that you heard and learned about yourself. It's interesting 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:37.520 because I've known you forever. I used to work for you, 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:39.959 and I just I can't believe I'm sitting or having 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:43.160 a conversation with you about therapy. I mean, you were 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:45.839 sort of in therapy when I worked for you, but no, 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:49.360 I was never in therapy, not for real. Like well, 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:51.280 I remember one day you came into my office with 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:53.640 a cocktail and you were like, what are you doing tonight, Jen, 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:55.439 And I was like, oh, I don't know, and You're like, 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:57.600 I have therapy and I was like, you're having a cocktail. 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:02.120 You know, it was not it was not the same um. 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:05.120 You know, you didn't put your weight behind it like 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.800 you did this time. And I know that we know 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:10.000 this from your great books and from your special but 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:12.920 what made you? I mean, I am in shock. I 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:16.679 just really thought, you know, you're just kind of set 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:19.599 in your path and and you're not gonna go. Not 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:21.000 that I was sitting around thinking you should go, but 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:24.199 I think everyone should go. And for someone who was 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:26.160 so open minded about so many things, I feel like 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:28.760 that did come to you late, like later than other things, 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:32.440 in that sense of like I really want to explore myself. Well, 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:34.240 I think I just had so much success being an 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:36.559 asshole that there was really no reason to explore it, 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:39.880 you know what I mean, right, Like it was everything 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.319 was great, So what what's the problem? You know? And 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:45.400 so you have to like really get to know yourself 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:47.880 and your thoughts and then like you know, asking yourself 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:50.440 more big girl questions. Yeah, I think I'm a late 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:52.959 bloomer too, in terms of that, in terms of falling 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:56.320 in love, in terms of therapy, like things didn't come 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:59.400 to me, even though I'm fast and quick, and i'm 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:03.920 you know, like I'm I'm very like, uh, immature in 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:08.280 many ways or naive even um. So yeah, I'm just 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:10.920 as surprised as you are. I was just like, oh god, 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.920 you know, because and now it's it's just so cliche. 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.880 And I feel like the reason why I advertise and 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:20.480 talk about all of that stuff so much is to 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:25.720 de cliche it, because you know, it's it is. It's true. 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.680 Like that's what happens when you grow up. You start 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:32.319 to have you know, self awareness or the desire for 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:37.200 it and self examination and you know, better late than never. 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:40.640 I think you did it at the perfect time because 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.520 you had the free head space and the free time 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:47.400 and and was there deep pain down there Chelsea or 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:50.079 just pain that you didn't even know was there. Well, 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:52.280 I think the pain of losing my brother and never 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:55.120 being able to discuss that in a grown up way 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:57.880 or in an in a child like way like as 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:00.880 a nine year old girl. As my therapist thing to me, 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:04.000 you don't understand what's happening and you are not able 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:07.200 to digest it. So, yes, there was a deep pain 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:09.920 going on my brother abandoned me. In my brain. You know, 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:14.679 my emotional reaction to my brother dying was that of 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:17.160 a nine year old girl. So to be able to 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.800 kind of revisit that in a serious way, which is 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:25.960 you know, unpleasant, and and go through it, you're like, oh, okay, 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:30.040 at least I'm doing like some really like respectable work here, 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:32.480 or trying to get to the bottom of any of 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:37.559 my shortcomings or abrasiveness or lack of consideration towards things. 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:41.480 You know. It's just it's like, I I what is 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:44.160 that quote. I think it's probably an Oprah quote where 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:46.959 it's like everything works for you until it doesn't. And 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:49.880 I never understood what she was talking about. I'm just like, 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.480 what does that mean? But it's what I'm saying, right. 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:55.640 It's a lot of people um, I have friends in 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:57.800 a they have a similar quote. It's like, you know, 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:00.920 the drinking worked for them until it didn't. It's not 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:05.120 like their years of getting wasted wasn't helping what they 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:07.760 were trying to achieve, which was peace and you know, 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.400 feeling confident or whatever. But yeah, all of your what, 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.600 whether it was avoidance or I don't know whatever, being 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:17.000 snarky or because you said being an asshole, that worked. 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:21.080 It helped keep those feelings away until I mean, you 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:26.800 have everything you ever could want, and there's that pain 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:30.040 that's still there. I imagine that's that's what you're saying. Yeah, 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:32.600 And I had a really ugly breakup. I was dating 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:36.440 this ridiculous person and I we we just like we 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:38.480 we broke up, and I hated the way that I 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:42.520 had behaved in that relationship. I was embarrassed about my behavior, 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:45.600 Like everything I represent I was kind of betraying. And 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:48.320 I was like, wait a second, that's just being in 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:50.720 that relationship alone. You need to talk about You have 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:53.320 to have a conversation about what your patterns are and 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:55.720 what you're willing to tolerate because it was just so 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:58.440 not me. And so that was I think if you 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:02.880 coupled that with the election and just this natural surfacing 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:05.600 of delayed grief. You know it's gonna come. It's gonna 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.560 come when you're in a vulnerable spot in your life, 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:11.360 right and you're in between things. I think I just 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:15.320 left some show and was starting another new thing. So 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.720 I think all of it goes together pretty, you know, 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:21.960 pretty logically well. And and I do want to talk 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:24.520 about I've told you before the show that this relationship, 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:27.200 that this relationship. I told you that this episode will 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:30.600 be about love and relationships. And I find it fascinating that, 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:33.840 you know, I think to us it makes total sense, 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:36.360 and we're both pretty therapized. But I'm just picturing someone 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:40.280 listening who's never been to therapy maybe can relate, thinking, well, 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:42.360 I don't understand what her brother dying has to do 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:45.640 with love relationships, And to me, it's so obvious. When 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:47.920 I was reading your book, Life Will Be the Death 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:50.520 of Me, I actually listened to it. It was making 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.880 me cry. Just my god, the way that your brother 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:58.480 treated you is how everybody should be treated in a relationship. 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:03.000 You know, just that uncon aditional love, the playfulness bringing 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:05.000 out the best of you. And then you know he 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:07.160 says he's going on this hiking trip and you're saying, well, 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:10.560 we don't. Families don't do things alone. What are you doing? 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:12.160 And the fact that it was the first time he 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.280 had ever vacation without you guys, and he's saying, no, 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.760 I'll be back, I promise, and he died and didn't 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.440 come back. And it's like, there's so many things there 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:24.320 that you know, I realized now through therapy would of 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:28.200 course make it hard to attach with people romantically. You know, 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:31.440 my my armchair therapist self right now, and you can 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:34.680 correct me if I'm wrong. Is yes, you're so worried 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:38.040 about being abandoned again that it's not even as simple 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:40.000 as you're afraid to love. But you might as well 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.240 pick people that if they did abandon you, you wouldn't 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:45.640 even give a ship, you know. But then it can 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:48.400 get sticky because even if those types do abandon you, 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:50.680 it's still abandonment and you do give a ship, and 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:55.480 then that's confusing. In are you relating at all? Yeah? Absolutely, 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:57.920 I think it's like I just read that book Attached, 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.040 I think, which talks about being in a void it 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.520 in a secure or an anxious right and an anxious 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:05.640 and an avoidant kind of go together because they feed 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:07.840 off of each other. One doesn't want to get too 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:09.480 close and the other one is like, why can't we 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:13.159 be closer? And then you're secure, and you're like, oh, secure, 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.560 sounds good, like you know when you're you know, I 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.440 recognized so many parts in each of those kinds of 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:23.159 like descript or characterizations in myself. But yeah, it's a 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:27.480 definite pattern of behavior when you've been abandoned, and you 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.560 know it's not a being abandoned, but in your emotional 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.680 intellect it is. And then you know subsequently, then my 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:37.159 father completely just like disappearing from faith the face of 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:39.560 the earth, because you could never recover. After my brother died, 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:41.920 so it was like I lost my two closest men, 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:44.800 and so from then on it's like, of course I 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.280 don't trust men. The two most important men in my 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:51.359 life disappointed me and betrayed me, and of course I 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.800 will never ever let a man have that much power 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:58.280 over me again. Like you said, it's it's the feeling 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:00.040 that you were abandoned. Obviously, your brother didn't do it 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:02.879 on purpose, and your father, of course I didn't do 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:06.200 it on purpose. But so we take our nine year 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:09.520 old selves, and we take that maturity in that area, 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:12.800 which is not much with us into our thirties into 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:16.720 our forties. But you're completely capable in so many other ways. 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.600 You know, you're you're famous, you have a great career, 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:23.680 you have great friendships, and it just seems bizarre that 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.159 there's like almost this little kid trapped inside of you, 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:30.119 and there's a wonderful childlike quality to you. But then 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:32.840 when that child is abandoned, it's like, now the lashing 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:36.200 out happens. You know, every which way I imagine that 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.120 must have happened in I don't know, did it happen 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.840 in romantic relationships when you felt abandoned or did you 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:45.240 just not even give a ship? Yeah? Of course. You know, 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:47.240 if they were all too into me, it was annoying, 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:49.240 And if they weren't into me enough, then I was 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:54.480 desperate for their attention. Um, you know, eventually everybody ended 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:56.800 up annoying me to the point where I was done 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:00.440 and you know, rejected them. But I mean, the last 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:02.720 big relationship I had, I knew I wasn't going to 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:06.000 have another big relationship anytime soon because it was so 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:10.120 demonstrative of how unhealthy of a place I was living 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:12.600 in like, there's just no way that would be exacting. 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:16.320 I would never allow any of my friends to go 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.359 through that, And yet I was sitting there doing it. 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:23.040 Is this the one I knew about? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:25.240 Andre Andrea? Okay, I didn't know. If I didn't know 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:27.119 if we were naming names. Well, I mean, it's not 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:30.040 like it's totally public. So I love the idea of 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.320 like shrouding the true if it's like whatever. I was, 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:35.399 you know, there for that, And it was sort of 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:37.560 this on again, off again thing, very glamorous. You know, 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:39.960 he's landing a helicopter on a roof and whisking you 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:43.920 off and and you know, it seemed perfect for you 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:46.240 at the time because it didn't seem like you wanted to, 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:49.680 you know, settle down anytime soon, and it just seemed like, oh, 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:51.720 she could go on like this forever, you know. And 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:54.719 I had no idea that. Of course I didn't even 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:56.800 know about this stuff yet, but that you know, the 0:19:56.880 --> 0:20:00.000 avoidant and the anxious are you guys are probably switched 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.680 in places sometimes too with anxious right, And it's like 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:06.800 everyone else from the outside, it probably seems so glamorous 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:09.399 and fun. And it was glamorous, you know it was 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:11.959 it was we did do that. We would like fly 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:14.520 for the weekend of Paris or go to Prague. Well no, 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:16.200 I've never been to Prague, so that's not true, but 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:18.680 you know we did like I would, we would like 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:20.960 I have the story about me falling out of a 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.600 helicopter landing in the Hudson at his house in the 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:26.560 Hudson River. We flew in from the helicopter and I 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:30.080 was like, you know, wasted or like leaning out of 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:32.359 the helicopter and fell out of the helicopter into the 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:35.359 Hudson River, and like winter closed in November. It was 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:39.000 Thanksgiving weekend and I remember Chunk, my dog, jumped out 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:41.120 of the helicopter after me, and I was like, oh 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:43.080 my god. First of all, I should be with Chunk. 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:46.840 Fuck this guy, but uh he was. We lived a 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:49.680 lifestyle like that, like it was just ridiculous. And it 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:53.760 was basically like what's that famous couple that that famous 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:58.400 play Virginia. It's Virginia was afraid of Virginia. Yes, it's 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:01.320 like that, just like I take private jets do on 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:03.400 the weekend to see him. But then I get mad 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:06.080 when I landed and I'd reround. I mean it was 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:08.879 so dumb. Well, I can see that there's probably a 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:11.480 certain point where you really can have everything in a 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:14.639 relationship like that except what you really need, and it 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:18.439 must just be so maddening. We're just all of your 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:22.080 primal ship comes out and and you know, sometimes there's 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:25.280 people that they can handle it because they're just as 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:27.240 fucked up in that sense, you know what I mean, Like, 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:29.520 you're not going to scare him if you go hop 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:31.879 on him, right, And it's like, in a weird way, 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:35.000