Speaker 1: This is the Anxiety Bites podcast and I am your host,
Speaker 1: Jen Kirkman. Welcome to another episode of Anxiety Bites. I
Speaker 1: am your host Jen Kirkman. So this week's episode and
Speaker 1: next week's will be focused on love, anxiety, love and
Speaker 1: anxiety together. The pressures of society to find love, to
Speaker 1: keep love, to stay in love when it's not working
Speaker 1: for you, everything, the pressures of society to spend time
Speaker 1: with yourself, but only if it's a road to eventually
Speaker 1: finding love. All of that, and so I thought that
Speaker 1: it would be cool to do too Love episodes back
Speaker 1: to back around the Valentine's Day season, because even if
Speaker 1: you're single and Valentine's Day doesn't torture you personally, even
Speaker 1: though you don't sit at home in February, a team thinking, oh,
Speaker 1: I wish I was at an overpriced dinner right now
Speaker 1: with a million other people in a packed restaurant during
Speaker 1: a pandemic. I mean, that is the height of romance.
Speaker 1: Even if you're not actually lamenting that you're not taking
Speaker 1: part in this holiday, the pressure exists. And you know,
Speaker 1: we talk about how Instagram has been really bad for
Speaker 1: the mental health of teenagers because they see perfect images
Speaker 1: and it can cause eating disorders, and it can cause
Speaker 1: even feelings of um feeling suicidal. For adults, I think
Speaker 1: this same thing exists. I mean, obviously it does. We
Speaker 1: all have Instagram, and I think it reduces us to,
Speaker 1: you know, teenagers when we look at it in the
Speaker 1: sense that you may be feeling fine on Valentine's Day
Speaker 1: until you look at an Instagram and you see your
Speaker 1: friends and they're all at something. You know, oh my
Speaker 1: partner got me this, and oh and so much love.
Speaker 1: Then I look at these roses and blah blah, and
Speaker 1: even though you might not want that stuff, even if
Speaker 1: you were in a relationship, you would issue Valentine's Day
Speaker 1: and say, I really don't need the pomp and circumstance
Speaker 1: of Valentine's Day. I can celebrate our love any day
Speaker 1: of the week. I really truly do not want to
Speaker 1: go to an overpriced restaurant. It's it's too much. And
Speaker 1: you know what, they're not even gonna let us sit
Speaker 1: there and linger because they got to turn over the
Speaker 1: tables because there's a reservation list a mile long. And
Speaker 1: I really don't even like red roses, and they prick
Speaker 1: your fingers anyway, and you know, I don't I don't
Speaker 1: even like chocolate. This none of this appeals to me.
Speaker 1: But then you see someone you know in an intimate
Speaker 1: moment with their partners, showing you only the best of
Speaker 1: their relationship, and you get that paying of not jealousy
Speaker 1: that you want literally what your friend has, or that
Speaker 1: you don't want them to have it, but just what's
Speaker 1: wrong with me? And if at all, listening to these
Speaker 1: episodes helps to normalize that nothing is wrong with you.
Speaker 1: Everybody is sometimes singles. Sometimes in a relationship, it's it's
Speaker 1: ed as it flows, but sometimes there are actual reasons
Speaker 1: why if you are looking for a relationship that you
Speaker 1: might find yourself kind of hitting the same wall over
Speaker 1: and over. And we'll talk more about that next week
Speaker 1: when I talked to a therapist about attachment styles. But
Speaker 1: this week with Chelsea, I thought it was fun to
Speaker 1: look behind the person that she's been and that she's presented,
Speaker 1: you know, over the last decade. And obviously none of
Speaker 1: this is an exclusive. She does this herself in all
Speaker 1: of her work and her social media and her comedy.
Speaker 1: But I've known Chelsea intimately for at least fifteen years.
Speaker 1: She used to be my boss. I wrote for her
Speaker 1: on the show Chelsea Lately. I appeared on Chelsea Lately
Speaker 1: and after Lately. I've toured with her and she's a
Speaker 1: friend of mine, and so what I loved about chatting
Speaker 1: with her is how from going to therapy, I can
Speaker 1: see how differently Chelsea handles intimacy. I can guarantee you
Speaker 1: if I had done this interview before her years of therapy, well,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have had reason to, because we I've talked
Speaker 1: about things she learned in therapy. But hypothetically, if I had,
Speaker 1: she would have been kind enough to agree to do it.
Speaker 1: She would have had fun in her own way doing it,
Speaker 1: but there'd be a lot of turning the focus on me,
Speaker 1: I think, and a lot of joking, but kind of
Speaker 1: you know, that kind of joking that pushes rather than
Speaker 1: pulls someone in. And now she really is very different
Speaker 1: than than she used to be. I sense this ability
Speaker 1: in her to have this intimacy and connection, and she
Speaker 1: doesn't seem afraid of what might be thrown at her,
Speaker 1: which probably sounds weird to people that don't know her.
Speaker 1: I mean comedically, no, not afraid of anything being thrown
Speaker 1: at her, but but as a person I've always thought,
Speaker 1: I know you can go deeper. I know you can
Speaker 1: go deeper, and and she has. And so I've been
Speaker 1: in her life throughout all of her um significant relationships
Speaker 1: and as she has with some of mine, and it's
Speaker 1: always been interesting to me that sometimes she seemed like
Speaker 1: just like just uncomfortable, not into the relationship she was in,
Speaker 1: and you could misdiagnose that as, oh, she is intimacy issues,
Speaker 1: you know. And I was going through similar things in
Speaker 1: my relationships and I was definitely, I think, misdiagnosed a
Speaker 1: few times with intimacy issues. And by misdiagnosed, I mean
Speaker 1: just that kind of popular wisdom I don't really mean
Speaker 1: by a therapist, but that popular wisdom, Oh, you're not
Speaker 1: really feeling connected to your partner, who we all love,
Speaker 1: we think is great intimacy issues and it's like, sure,
Speaker 1: let's take it apart. Maybe there are some intimacy issues,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean you're with the right partner, and
Speaker 1: if you work on your intimacy issues, things will go
Speaker 1: swimmingly with that partner. If someone has intimacy issues, they're
Speaker 1: most likely also picking the wrong partner. So that kind
Speaker 1: of sloppy in between where we're kind of listening to
Speaker 1: just you know, colloquial things people say. I think you
Speaker 1: can keep a lot of us stuff. So I wanted
Speaker 1: to talk to Chelsea from the other side of all
Speaker 1: of this growth and find out, you know, as someone
Speaker 1: who really never copped dabbing any anxiety, or maybe she
Speaker 1: didn't think she did, but there are deep hurts in
Speaker 1: her life that she hadn't looked at. And you know,
Speaker 1: she was on a mission to become successful and she
Speaker 1: wants and it's but at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: that doesn't cure those deep wounds that we have to
Speaker 1: work on by going internally and doing the work. And
Speaker 1: so I wanted to show a real life example of
Speaker 1: that and then also celebrate that she's in love and
Speaker 1: she's telling everyone and I think it's great now. A
Speaker 1: lot of times it can be very annoying when people
Speaker 1: do that, and I think it's because when some people
Speaker 1: are doing that, they are trying to prove it to themselves.
Speaker 1: And just because I've known her for so long, I
Speaker 1: honestly know the difference that she's just trying to bring
Speaker 1: everyone into it, if that makes sense, you know, if
Speaker 1: you want to be inspired that you'll find someone like
Speaker 1: she did. You can be inspired if you want to
Speaker 1: be inspired by well, it takes this much work to
Speaker 1: get to know ourselves so that we can have healthy
Speaker 1: relationships with just all people be inspired by that. I
Speaker 1: mean one of the things right that people do on
Speaker 1: Valentine's Days, Gallantine's stating hang out with their girlfriends. And
Speaker 1: I don't know why this is restricted to women, but
Speaker 1: maybe we're the most victimized by this holiday. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but uh. Chelsea and I also talked about the intimacy
Speaker 1: of friendships and how that actually is as important as
Speaker 1: it's It's as important, you know, on the road to
Speaker 1: finding out how to do intimacy in relationships romantic relationships.
Speaker 1: So anyway, I hope you enjoy my discussion with Chelsea.
Speaker 1: She needs no introduction, but I will remind you that
Speaker 1: she is the best selling author of many books. Her
Speaker 1: latest is called Life Will Be the Death of Me
Speaker 1: and You two, and we do reference a story in
Speaker 1: that book about her brother. Chelsea is also on a
Speaker 1: stand up tour right now all over the country, selling out.
Speaker 1: It's called the Vaccinated and Horny Tour, and she recently
Speaker 1: won a People's Choice award in for Best Comedy Act Award,
Speaker 1: and oh how could I forget? She has her own
Speaker 1: podcast here on I Heart Radio. Um, we're all just
Speaker 1: one big, happy family here on iHeart Radio. She's got
Speaker 1: her own podcast on iHeart Radio called Dear Chelsea, which
Speaker 1: you can check out after you listen to this episode,
Speaker 1: of course. And here is my conversation with Chelsea Hamlet.
Speaker 1: Are you still in therapy? Chelsea? Let me let me
Speaker 1: make one more comment about that. I mean, isn't it
Speaker 1: ironic that Paul Rod just got crowned with the sexiest
Speaker 1: man alive like People magazine cover, while he's also playing
Speaker 1: the most unfussable character and the world totally. And I
Speaker 1: think I guess that's the that's the sum total of
Speaker 1: his sex appeal, is that. I mean, I'm personally not
Speaker 1: all up in arms about him, but you know, I
Speaker 1: because people find him sexy. Yeah no, I don't. I
Speaker 1: actually find his character sexier than him in a weird
Speaker 1: way because he's so fu U. I find Will Ferrell sexy.
Speaker 1: I love He's just so great that he's fuckable, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. He's such a good guy that
Speaker 1: whatever he's he's I love him He's so vulnerable in
Speaker 1: that show that it almost hurts to watch. Sometimes. I
Speaker 1: feel so sad, and I'm glad that it's I'm glad
Speaker 1: that the real story has been settled, and I'm glad
Speaker 1: it's not really happening right now in real time. UM So,
Speaker 1: speaking of therapy, Chelsea, Handler, you are in therapy? Continued continuant, continuant.
Speaker 1: I'm a god fucking no, never mind, definitely not the Chelsea.
Speaker 1: Are you in therapy right now? No? Uh no, I'm
Speaker 1: not in therapy right I haven't been for a while now. UM.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, if I have something come up and
Speaker 1: I think I need help with like a conversation or something,
Speaker 1: I'll call him. But I haven't done that in a
Speaker 1: long time. And I really think that therapy is something
Speaker 1: that you have to do for at least for me.
Speaker 1: But I would I would guess it's probably this way
Speaker 1: for many people. That you have to sit and absorb
Speaker 1: and absorb and absorb, and then you have to go away.
Speaker 1: Just like you had to go away from your parents,
Speaker 1: you need to go away from your therapist and absorb
Speaker 1: everything that you heard and learned about yourself. It's interesting
Speaker 1: because I've known you forever. I used to work for you,
Speaker 1: and I just I can't believe I'm sitting or having
Speaker 1: a conversation with you about therapy. I mean, you were
Speaker 1: sort of in therapy when I worked for you, but no,
Speaker 1: I was never in therapy, not for real. Like well,
Speaker 1: I remember one day you came into my office with
Speaker 1: a cocktail and you were like, what are you doing tonight, Jen,
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, I don't know, and You're like,
Speaker 1: I have therapy and I was like, you're having a cocktail.
Speaker 1: You know, it was not it was not the same um.
Speaker 1: You know, you didn't put your weight behind it like
Speaker 1: you did this time. And I know that we know
Speaker 1: this from your great books and from your special but
Speaker 1: what made you? I mean, I am in shock. I
Speaker 1: just really thought, you know, you're just kind of set
Speaker 1: in your path and and you're not gonna go. Not
Speaker 1: that I was sitting around thinking you should go, but
Speaker 1: I think everyone should go. And for someone who was
Speaker 1: so open minded about so many things, I feel like
Speaker 1: that did come to you late, like later than other things,
Speaker 1: in that sense of like I really want to explore myself. Well,
Speaker 1: I think I just had so much success being an
Speaker 1: asshole that there was really no reason to explore it,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, right, Like it was everything
Speaker 1: was great, So what what's the problem? You know? And
Speaker 1: so you have to like really get to know yourself
Speaker 1: and your thoughts and then like you know, asking yourself
Speaker 1: more big girl questions. Yeah, I think I'm a late
Speaker 1: bloomer too, in terms of that, in terms of falling
Speaker 1: in love, in terms of therapy, like things didn't come
Speaker 1: to me, even though I'm fast and quick, and i'm
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm I'm very like, uh, immature in
Speaker 1: many ways or naive even um. So yeah, I'm just
Speaker 1: as surprised as you are. I was just like, oh god,
Speaker 1: you know, because and now it's it's just so cliche.
Speaker 1: And I feel like the reason why I advertise and
Speaker 1: talk about all of that stuff so much is to
Speaker 1: de cliche it, because you know, it's it is. It's true.
Speaker 1: Like that's what happens when you grow up. You start
Speaker 1: to have you know, self awareness or the desire for
Speaker 1: it and self examination and you know, better late than never.
Speaker 1: I think you did it at the perfect time because
Speaker 1: you had the free head space and the free time
Speaker 1: and and was there deep pain down there Chelsea or
Speaker 1: just pain that you didn't even know was there. Well,
Speaker 1: I think the pain of losing my brother and never
Speaker 1: being able to discuss that in a grown up way
Speaker 1: or in an in a child like way like as
Speaker 1: a nine year old girl. As my therapist thing to me,
Speaker 1: you don't understand what's happening and you are not able
Speaker 1: to digest it. So, yes, there was a deep pain
Speaker 1: going on my brother abandoned me. In my brain. You know,
Speaker 1: my emotional reaction to my brother dying was that of
Speaker 1: a nine year old girl. So to be able to
Speaker 1: kind of revisit that in a serious way, which is
Speaker 1: you know, unpleasant, and and go through it, you're like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: at least I'm doing like some really like respectable work here,
Speaker 1: or trying to get to the bottom of any of
Speaker 1: my shortcomings or abrasiveness or lack of consideration towards things.
Speaker 1: You know. It's just it's like, I I what is
Speaker 1: that quote. I think it's probably an Oprah quote where
Speaker 1: it's like everything works for you until it doesn't. And
Speaker 1: I never understood what she was talking about. I'm just like,
Speaker 1: what does that mean? But it's what I'm saying, right.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of people um, I have friends in
Speaker 1: a they have a similar quote. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: the drinking worked for them until it didn't. It's not
Speaker 1: like their years of getting wasted wasn't helping what they
Speaker 1: were trying to achieve, which was peace and you know,
Speaker 1: feeling confident or whatever. But yeah, all of your what,
Speaker 1: whether it was avoidance or I don't know whatever, being
Speaker 1: snarky or because you said being an asshole, that worked.
Speaker 1: It helped keep those feelings away until I mean, you
Speaker 1: have everything you ever could want, and there's that pain
Speaker 1: that's still there. I imagine that's that's what you're saying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I had a really ugly breakup. I was dating
Speaker 1: this ridiculous person and I we we just like we
Speaker 1: we broke up, and I hated the way that I
Speaker 1: had behaved in that relationship. I was embarrassed about my behavior,
Speaker 1: Like everything I represent I was kind of betraying. And
Speaker 1: I was like, wait a second, that's just being in
Speaker 1: that relationship alone. You need to talk about You have
Speaker 1: to have a conversation about what your patterns are and
Speaker 1: what you're willing to tolerate because it was just so
Speaker 1: not me. And so that was I think if you
Speaker 1: coupled that with the election and just this natural surfacing
Speaker 1: of delayed grief. You know it's gonna come. It's gonna
Speaker 1: come when you're in a vulnerable spot in your life,
Speaker 1: right and you're in between things. I think I just
Speaker 1: left some show and was starting another new thing. So
Speaker 1: I think all of it goes together pretty, you know,
Speaker 1: pretty logically well. And and I do want to talk
Speaker 1: about I've told you before the show that this relationship,
Speaker 1: that this relationship. I told you that this episode will
Speaker 1: be about love and relationships. And I find it fascinating that,
Speaker 1: you know, I think to us it makes total sense,
Speaker 1: and we're both pretty therapized. But I'm just picturing someone
Speaker 1: listening who's never been to therapy maybe can relate, thinking, well,
Speaker 1: I don't understand what her brother dying has to do
Speaker 1: with love relationships, And to me, it's so obvious. When
Speaker 1: I was reading your book, Life Will Be the Death
Speaker 1: of Me, I actually listened to it. It was making
Speaker 1: me cry. Just my god, the way that your brother
Speaker 1: treated you is how everybody should be treated in a relationship.
Speaker 1: You know, just that uncon aditional love, the playfulness bringing
Speaker 1: out the best of you. And then you know he
Speaker 1: says he's going on this hiking trip and you're saying, well,
Speaker 1: we don't. Families don't do things alone. What are you doing?
Speaker 1: And the fact that it was the first time he
Speaker 1: had ever vacation without you guys, and he's saying, no,
Speaker 1: I'll be back, I promise, and he died and didn't
Speaker 1: come back. And it's like, there's so many things there
Speaker 1: that you know, I realized now through therapy would of
Speaker 1: course make it hard to attach with people romantically. You know,
Speaker 1: my my armchair therapist self right now, and you can
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong. Is yes, you're so worried
Speaker 1: about being abandoned again that it's not even as simple
Speaker 1: as you're afraid to love. But you might as well
Speaker 1: pick people that if they did abandon you, you wouldn't
Speaker 1: even give a ship, you know. But then it can
Speaker 1: get sticky because even if those types do abandon you,
Speaker 1: it's still abandonment and you do give a ship, and
Speaker 1: then that's confusing. In are you relating at all? Yeah? Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I think it's like I just read that book Attached,
Speaker 1: I think, which talks about being in a void it
Speaker 1: in a secure or an anxious right and an anxious
Speaker 1: and an avoidant kind of go together because they feed
Speaker 1: off of each other. One doesn't want to get too
Speaker 1: close and the other one is like, why can't we
Speaker 1: be closer? And then you're secure, and you're like, oh, secure,
Speaker 1: sounds good, like you know when you're you know, I
Speaker 1: recognized so many parts in each of those kinds of
Speaker 1: like descript or characterizations in myself. But yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: definite pattern of behavior when you've been abandoned, and you
Speaker 1: know it's not a being abandoned, but in your emotional
Speaker 1: intellect it is. And then you know subsequently, then my
Speaker 1: father completely just like disappearing from faith the face of
Speaker 1: the earth, because you could never recover. After my brother died,
Speaker 1: so it was like I lost my two closest men,
Speaker 1: and so from then on it's like, of course I
Speaker 1: don't trust men. The two most important men in my
Speaker 1: life disappointed me and betrayed me, and of course I
Speaker 1: will never ever let a man have that much power
Speaker 1: over me again. Like you said, it's it's the feeling
Speaker 1: that you were abandoned. Obviously, your brother didn't do it
Speaker 1: on purpose, and your father, of course I didn't do
Speaker 1: it on purpose. But so we take our nine year
Speaker 1: old selves, and we take that maturity in that area,
Speaker 1: which is not much with us into our thirties into
Speaker 1: our forties. But you're completely capable in so many other ways.
Speaker 1: You know, you're you're famous, you have a great career,
Speaker 1: you have great friendships, and it just seems bizarre that
Speaker 1: there's like almost this little kid trapped inside of you,
Speaker 1: and there's a wonderful childlike quality to you. But then
Speaker 1: when that child is abandoned, it's like, now the lashing
Speaker 1: out happens. You know, every which way I imagine that
Speaker 1: must have happened in I don't know, did it happen
Speaker 1: in romantic relationships when you felt abandoned or did you
Speaker 1: just not even give a ship? Yeah? Of course. You know,
Speaker 1: if they were all too into me, it was annoying,
Speaker 1: And if they weren't into me enough, then I was
Speaker 1: desperate for their attention. Um, you know, eventually everybody ended
Speaker 1: up annoying me to the point where I was done
Speaker 1: and you know, rejected them. But I mean, the last
Speaker 1: big relationship I had, I knew I wasn't going to
Speaker 1: have another big relationship anytime soon because it was so
Speaker 1: demonstrative of how unhealthy of a place I was living
Speaker 1: in like, there's just no way that would be exacting.
Speaker 1: I would never allow any of my friends to go
Speaker 1: through that, And yet I was sitting there doing it.
Speaker 1: Is this the one I knew about? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Andre Andrea? Okay, I didn't know. If I didn't know
Speaker 1: if we were naming names. Well, I mean, it's not
Speaker 1: like it's totally public. So I love the idea of
Speaker 1: like shrouding the true if it's like whatever. I was,
Speaker 1: you know, there for that, And it was sort of
Speaker 1: this on again, off again thing, very glamorous. You know,
Speaker 1: he's landing a helicopter on a roof and whisking you
Speaker 1: off and and you know, it seemed perfect for you
Speaker 1: at the time because it didn't seem like you wanted to,
Speaker 1: you know, settle down anytime soon, and it just seemed like, oh,
Speaker 1: she could go on like this forever, you know. And
Speaker 1: I had no idea that. Of course I didn't even
Speaker 1: know about this stuff yet, but that you know, the
Speaker 1: avoidant and the anxious are you guys are probably switched
Speaker 1: in places sometimes too with anxious right, And it's like
Speaker 1: everyone else from the outside, it probably seems so glamorous
Speaker 1: and fun. And it was glamorous, you know it was
Speaker 1: it was we did do that. We would like fly
Speaker 1: for the weekend of Paris or go to Prague. Well no,
Speaker 1: I've never been to Prague, so that's not true, but
Speaker 1: you know we did like I would, we would like
Speaker 1: I have the story about me falling out of a
Speaker 1: helicopter landing in the Hudson at his house in the
Speaker 1: Hudson River. We flew in from the helicopter and I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, wasted or like leaning out of
Speaker 1: the helicopter and fell out of the helicopter into the
Speaker 1: Hudson River, and like winter closed in November. It was
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving weekend and I remember Chunk, my dog, jumped out
Speaker 1: of the helicopter after me, and I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god. First of all, I should be with Chunk.
Speaker 1: Fuck this guy, but uh he was. We lived a
Speaker 1: lifestyle like that, like it was just ridiculous. And it
Speaker 1: was basically like what's that famous couple that that famous
Speaker 1: play Virginia. It's Virginia was afraid of Virginia. Yes, it's
Speaker 1: like that, just like I take private jets do on
Speaker 1: the weekend to see him. But then I get mad
Speaker 1: when I landed and I'd reround. I mean it was
Speaker 1: so dumb. Well, I can see that there's probably a
Speaker 1: certain point where you really can have everything in a
Speaker 1: relationship like that except what you really need, and it
Speaker 1: must just be so maddening. We're just all of your
Speaker 1: primal ship comes out and and you know, sometimes there's
Speaker 1: people that they can handle it because they're just as
Speaker 1: fucked up in that sense, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: you're not going to scare him if you go hop
Speaker 1: on him, right, And it's like, in a weird way,
Speaker 1: almost want someone that would be scared of. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: in a weird way. It's like what you said earlier
Speaker 1: about you know, my brother had all these amazing qualities.
Speaker 1: It's funny because clearly that's those are the qualities I
Speaker 1: was looking for, right and in everybody that I wanted,
Speaker 1: like do you can you be that? Can you make
Speaker 1: me feel this kind of comfort? And and Joe has
Speaker 1: all He reminds me so much of my brother. It's
Speaker 1: you know, it comes up all the time, like he
Speaker 1: does these gestures that are almost maternal at all, like
Speaker 1: somebody who just is so careful about you and wants
Speaker 1: to make sure you're okay, and you're comfortable and care
Speaker 1: so much for you, like only a mother is like that,
Speaker 1: you know, And that's the way my brother was. I'm
Speaker 1: just thinking that, you know, we don't want to put
Speaker 1: the blame on the person who hasn't found the right
Speaker 1: person yet, But in a way, it's we always have
Speaker 1: to look at ourselves. Am I doing anything too? I
Speaker 1: don't mean to block the right person coming? And I'm
Speaker 1: not trying to talk like the secret, but am I
Speaker 1: doing anything to not see? Like with you and Joe,
Speaker 1: I'm not seeing what's right in front of me, and
Speaker 1: and it wasn't the right time yet. But there is
Speaker 1: also something too, you know, sometimes we just don't find
Speaker 1: the right people at the right time. But I do
Speaker 1: think there's something to be said for on one hand,
Speaker 1: you want all these qualities that that your brother had,
Speaker 1: but on the other you're really not willing to have
Speaker 1: them yet. I really believe that, you know, Um, it's
Speaker 1: like someone who wants to quit smoking, but they're really
Speaker 1: not willing yet, and so they're going to keep smoking
Speaker 1: and keep complaining about it. I gotta quit, I gotta quick.
Speaker 1: I really feel like it's that way in love, when
Speaker 1: we we know what's the right thing, but we we
Speaker 1: have no tools to go find it or to even
Speaker 1: actually like to even feel attracted to it, Like was
Speaker 1: there a time? And I'm going all over the place.
Speaker 1: But we'll get back to original questions. But when you
Speaker 1: first were falling in love with Joe, did it feel
Speaker 1: different than other relationships that that you had pre therapy
Speaker 1: where you were stuck in these other attachment styles of
Speaker 1: anxious avoidance. Did it feel like, am I not even
Speaker 1: into this guy? I mean, am I attracted to him
Speaker 1: at all? I mean we hung out for a long
Speaker 1: time and I was not. I never even thought that
Speaker 1: way about him. I just thought, Oh, he's such a
Speaker 1: nice Joe's such a nice guy, right, Like he's just
Speaker 1: he's happiness. He's like fortune, He's like the male version
Speaker 1: of fortune. Yeah, he just brings joy. So I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: of course I want that around me, you know, he's
Speaker 1: and and yeah, I kind of figured he had a
Speaker 1: crush on me. But I didn't really think too much
Speaker 1: about it. I just I don't know, I just didn't.
Speaker 1: And then over time, you know, it definitely felt from
Speaker 1: because by the time I came around to the idea
Speaker 1: I had never ever fallen for somebody in that way
Speaker 1: by hanging out with them or spending time with them
Speaker 1: and like literally falling in love with a person before
Speaker 1: who they represent or what they're bringing, you know, like
Speaker 1: the the allure. So it's it was the first time
Speaker 1: I had fallen in love with a friend, so yeah,
Speaker 1: and it was my first relationship post therapy, you know,
Speaker 1: like a like serious relationship. We'll continue the interview on
Speaker 1: the flip side of a quick message from our sponsors.
Speaker 1: So now I'm going to take you back to pre Joe.
Speaker 1: So would you say that you have ever had anxiety
Speaker 1: in a in a kind of disordered way or do
Speaker 1: you have it now? I mean I've had I have
Speaker 1: incremental anxiety when I have things. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: think I could compare myself to you and your anxiety
Speaker 1: and don't think it's it's it's in no way ever
Speaker 1: really inhibited me. I mean I fight against it a lot,
Speaker 1: so I kind of like tune it out if I
Speaker 1: feel it, I feel like, oh I have to go
Speaker 1: do that or you know. But I also take my
Speaker 1: time to get to what I'm doing. So I definitely
Speaker 1: have a lot of deliberation, which can be I think
Speaker 1: characterized as anxiety, like before I pulled the trigger on
Speaker 1: something and then I also have anxiety. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think with COVID and socializing, I definitely feel a little
Speaker 1: bit more self conscious about conversations and like the idea
Speaker 1: of having to be like the center of attention on
Speaker 1: anything other than be me being on tour and doing that.
Speaker 1: I have that is fine, I can nail that. But
Speaker 1: anything separate of that, I'm not really available. And I
Speaker 1: find that to be lame about myself, you know, like
Speaker 1: I used to be so much fun, and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're not fun anymore. Oh my god, I feel the
Speaker 1: opposite about you. Oh god, really, yeah, I think you're
Speaker 1: so much fun because you're very present and you're just
Speaker 1: as funny as you ever were, but there's more of
Speaker 1: a presence there and you're not I don't know. I
Speaker 1: I think you're really fun because you're just you're all there.
Speaker 1: You know. It's not spreading yourself too thin, right, It's
Speaker 1: like you can see a few people at a time.
Speaker 1: It's not everything has to be a giant party that
Speaker 1: you're throwing at your house. You don't really get to
Speaker 1: spend any time with you like you have more of
Speaker 1: an intimacy, and I think for me that's really fun.
Speaker 1: And I think that even translates probably to romantic relationships
Speaker 1: where it's like what maybe you thought might be boring
Speaker 1: before that you now have with Joe is probably really
Speaker 1: exciting because of the intimacy. Yeah. Yeah, that's actually a
Speaker 1: great way to look at it. I'm glad you said
Speaker 1: that because that is true. I definitely am way more
Speaker 1: present and I have more one on one interactions. I
Speaker 1: guess I feel there's a part of me that goes, oh,
Speaker 1: you used to be like the life of the party,
Speaker 1: and now I'm like, I don't, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: do that anymore. I like I do have you were
Speaker 1: people around, I don't have to go to those, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not like that, But there is there's a definite
Speaker 1: surplus of intimacy because of that with everybody. I remember
Speaker 1: after yeah, please put Chelsea's applying lipstick, and I'm so
Speaker 1: glad because women just want to times no, you do,
Speaker 1: you look great? But I remember, you know, after the
Speaker 1: Chelsea Lately Show is over, and you know, whenever I
Speaker 1: was doing any kind of like press for something, everyone's going,
Speaker 1: are you still friends of Chelsea? And I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but we're not like ever going out one on one,
Speaker 1: like to dinner. But she's my friend and she'll invite
Speaker 1: me to a party or something. And it's just so
Speaker 1: funny that we had this lovely one on one dinner.
Speaker 1: I mean, who else could have gone when I was
Speaker 1: on the road with you and up state New York.
Speaker 1: But I think, um, it was very special and it
Speaker 1: and it had a really lovely intimacy. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't think we really did this kind of stuff
Speaker 1: before because I think you were more focused on You
Speaker 1: just had more people to entertain, I guess, and you
Speaker 1: probably just wanted to be surrounded by a lot of people,
Speaker 1: the life of the party. And also it was pre COVID,
Speaker 1: But I do think there's something psychologically different there too,
Speaker 1: and it it's just so funny that it coincides with
Speaker 1: you being in this really deep relationship. Now, Oh well,
Speaker 1: I love that, thank you, and the deep relationship I
Speaker 1: mean is you and me obviously, But she's what she's
Speaker 1: not saying about that dinner is I'll leave out all
Speaker 1: the romantic details. You do have some experiences with anxiety,
Speaker 1: but you're talking about the attachment styles did you talk
Speaker 1: to a therapist about that? Do you know what your
Speaker 1: attachment style was and has it changed, because I've heard
Speaker 1: that they can be fluid. Oh, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: haven't spoken to a therapist. I just read that book
Speaker 1: about it. It's all attached um and no. I kind
Speaker 1: of saw myself and all of it. Avoidant, definitely anxious sometimes.
Speaker 1: Like anxious is like, oh, if if something goes wry, right,
Speaker 1: you immediately go to the worst possible case scenario, which
Speaker 1: is what I would do with my brother. And that's
Speaker 1: a very embedded thing, you know, Like, uh so anytime
Speaker 1: Joe and I, like, even if we have a disagreement,
Speaker 1: like you know, in my head, I in my like emotions,
Speaker 1: I'll be like, oh, what if we're breaking up? But
Speaker 1: in my head, I'm like, you're not. You're having a disagreement,
Speaker 1: so you can feel it in your body kind of yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I just know my reaction is my little girl
Speaker 1: reaction and not my like adult reaction. So I'm always
Speaker 1: And that's pretty much I would say the answer to
Speaker 1: to what I mean, what to do with almost every
Speaker 1: reaction you have is like give it a minute. Like
Speaker 1: my big problem was being so reactive and as long
Speaker 1: as you sit and go, okay, is this something you know,
Speaker 1: like am I being jealous right now? Am I being insecure? What?
Speaker 1: What is the issue here? And then identifying it and
Speaker 1: then not acting on it, going oh, that's that's not
Speaker 1: that's not what's happening. I think that's what's so interesting
Speaker 1: about the word anxiety is I think people think it
Speaker 1: means well, I'm no evens you know, when you're biting
Speaker 1: your nails, But you know it's for me, I realized that, well, okay,
Speaker 1: I don't really have my fear flying anymore, and I
Speaker 1: don't mind being alone, and I do a lot of things.
Speaker 1: I don't really know what I'm anxious about, but I'm reactive.
Speaker 1: I was reactive, and you know that is a form
Speaker 1: of anxiety. And so if we just blanket everything is anxiety,
Speaker 1: you know, it's important to talk about the deeper things.
Speaker 1: Like you mentioned the word deliberation, that's a form of anxiety.
Speaker 1: But reactivity is huge, and I think it's what tanks
Speaker 1: a lot of relationships because I think you know, for me,
Speaker 1: I was never taught that you can't just react however
Speaker 1: you want without taking a minute, and that the other person,
Speaker 1: it may chip away at their love for you. I
Speaker 1: really didn't know that. I thought you could just act, however,
Speaker 1: and people had to love you unconditionally. You know, well
Speaker 1: that would be ideal, right, you could just and that way,
Speaker 1: we wouldn't have the annoyances we have when we're dealing
Speaker 1: with people who don't seem exactly the same way or
Speaker 1: operating the way we would. You know, if everyone could
Speaker 1: just react and not take it personally right, But in
Speaker 1: a way, I'm glad that they do because it shows
Speaker 1: that they have some self esteem and healthy now injuries,
Speaker 1: you know, there's that that grace period between feeling the
Speaker 1: reaction and it feels so intense. You feel like you're
Speaker 1: nine years old being abandoned, and your brain is saying,
Speaker 1: wait a minute. And it just takes practice and now
Speaker 1: I'm I'm great at it. So many people have no
Speaker 1: idea I've been reactive around them because my brain is saying,
Speaker 1: calm down, we'll we'll do something about this later if
Speaker 1: you're still feeling a certain way, but you never are, which,
Speaker 1: by the way, like when people said, oh, write an
Speaker 1: email and then wait twenty four hours, you know, when
Speaker 1: you're angry, I'd be like, wait, I already sent it,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? And then you know I've
Speaker 1: sent it from my account and from someone else's account,
Speaker 1: And then when you actually put it into practice for
Speaker 1: the first time, you're like, wait, what was I upset about?
Speaker 1: And you realize, oh, this is another fucking thing that
Speaker 1: is so true. That is, you know, almost seems trite
Speaker 1: when people say it, but it's it's totally true. Like
Speaker 1: if you give anything twenty four hours you do not care.
Speaker 1: It's so true. And it is always the trite sounding
Speaker 1: things that work, because this stuff, although it's deep and
Speaker 1: it's serious and it's complex, it's the solutions are always
Speaker 1: pretty simple. And when I have done that, written an
Speaker 1: email and just sent it to myself, when I look
Speaker 1: at it twenty four hours later, I don't recognize that person.
Speaker 1: And and the great news is is there's never clean up.
Speaker 1: If I don't create drama, they don't have to clean
Speaker 1: up any drama. And oh my god, it's just so
Speaker 1: it just feels so freeing, and and I'm I don't
Speaker 1: even know, I can't even relate to people that never
Speaker 1: had this problem. They're just totally normal. It's so strange
Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, like they're totally even keeled. You're like, really,
Speaker 1: you just came out even keeled, so onto your love life.
Speaker 1: So okay, so here we are, we're Chelsea Handler. You
Speaker 1: know what's so funny is you write this book, you know,
Speaker 1: your first book, um My Horizontal, My Horizonal Life, my
Speaker 1: saying my yeah, yeah yeah. I don't know why it
Speaker 1: sounded wrong in my head. My Horizonal Life number one bestseller,
Speaker 1: really is the thing that launches you. And it's about
Speaker 1: having one night stands and but knowing you real life.
Speaker 1: I feel like the amount of years I worked with
Speaker 1: you like account on my fingers, the amount of people
Speaker 1: that you're with. You know, it's not like you were
Speaker 1: out there looking for men trying to have sacks all
Speaker 1: the time. You mean, you were like the least horny person.
Speaker 1: I knew. It was like men were just sort of
Speaker 1: this afterthought. If it happened, great, but you know it
Speaker 1: wasn't your goal in life. And so I guess that's
Speaker 1: just a comment, not a question. But do you think
Speaker 1: back then you were looking for love or you just
Speaker 1: weren't sure and you would have taken you know, what
Speaker 1: did you want back then? I wanted just to be
Speaker 1: successful and independent, like that was way more of a
Speaker 1: priority to me than love. Love was not on the
Speaker 1: menu like for my twenties or thirties. I mean, I
Speaker 1: met Ted, and I fell in love with Ted, like
Speaker 1: I really believed that I loved him for a good
Speaker 1: you know, two years, and but I outgrew him, just
Speaker 1: like I outgrew everything in my life. I just would
Speaker 1: get bored with something, just like I outgrew the show
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, this is boring to me now,
Speaker 1: Like once it was over, I was just like, I
Speaker 1: can't pretend. So that was the That was the first
Speaker 1: time I was in an adult like love relationship. And
Speaker 1: I think too that, yeah, I remember that when you
Speaker 1: and you were with Ted, who was um at the network.
Speaker 1: And this is during the Chelsea Lately. Let's throw up
Speaker 1: a picture of him. We're gonna throw up and we'll
Speaker 1: link to Ted in the show notes. We'll put his
Speaker 1: phone number in the show notes and his email address
Speaker 1: a Comcast network. I loved Ted. I was so bummed
Speaker 1: when you guys broke up, just because I all the
Speaker 1: time he smails me, like anytime I have good news,
Speaker 1: or like when I won the People's Choice Award, He
Speaker 1: sent me an email the next day, like, couldn't be
Speaker 1: prouder of you. He always sends me emails. It's really sweet.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Yeah, So now we're going to
Speaker 1: get into the portion of where we are now with
Speaker 1: Joan and inspiring people and all that. So okay, so
Speaker 1: you're you're having these relationships. We we went through the
Speaker 1: last two kind of big ones of your life. And
Speaker 1: did you think at one point, you know, independence and
Speaker 1: love they're just they're not they're not compatible. I guess
Speaker 1: I'm not going to have both. Yes, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: I definitely was like, Okay, well this is how it's
Speaker 1: going to be. Like I'm just gonna be with my
Speaker 1: family and uh my friends, and like I have a
Speaker 1: pretty happy life, like not even pretty happy, you know
Speaker 1: happy life. I have everything I could ever want, and
Speaker 1: I have the like sense you know of I could
Speaker 1: easily travel for the rest of my life with my
Speaker 1: friends and be fine. So yeah, I definitely thought that
Speaker 1: and I believed it. I was like, I don't get
Speaker 1: everything in this life. I've gotten too much already. That's
Speaker 1: something I probably am not going to get. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: so here you are with your good friend Joe Koy,
Speaker 1: which is just so funny because you know, again, I
Speaker 1: don't know exactly the demo of my podcast. I think
Speaker 1: it's a lot of people with anxiety. I don't know
Speaker 1: a lot of them if they've watched Chelsea Lately, none
Speaker 1: of that really matters. But what they need to know
Speaker 1: is that Joe Koy and Chelsea Hiller have known each
Speaker 1: other for got almost twenty years, and he was a
Speaker 1: regular on your show, late night show, Chelsea Lately, and
Speaker 1: you just would make fun of him so badly that
Speaker 1: if you asked me, then would they ever end up
Speaker 1: in love? No talking me too, I'm like, wait, if
Speaker 1: someone said in twenty years or well, no it's not
Speaker 1: been twenty years, but in twelve years or whatever it's been,
Speaker 1: you're going to be in love with Joe Coo, I
Speaker 1: would have been like what I wouldn't have been. I
Speaker 1: would have been like, that's a bummer, Like I didn't
Speaker 1: even think about him in that way. So here I
Speaker 1: am and I'm on Instagram. Um, I don't even know
Speaker 1: when over the summer last year, I'm seeing you hang
Speaker 1: out with Joe and I'm like, oh, Chelsea is in
Speaker 1: love with joke. It's so clear and you're just friends.
Speaker 1: And I reached out to when I was like you
Speaker 1: need to you know, you said, are you fucking when
Speaker 1: are you going to start sucking Joe KOI? Or what
Speaker 1: are you I was not that cross. I didn't. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: that must have been Sarah or one of you girls
Speaker 1: was like, when are you going that? Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: Sarah saying, or when are you going to admit your
Speaker 1: fucking Joe koy? And I was like, Sarah, like I've
Speaker 1: ever lied about anything like so if that were happening,
Speaker 1: I would let you know. And that was still at
Speaker 1: a point where I was like no, no, And then
Speaker 1: I remember it was not long after that that I said, Okay,
Speaker 1: I do want to suck him, but I'm not sure
Speaker 1: if he wants to suck me now. But that was
Speaker 1: of course, you know baby brain again right like now
Speaker 1: that I'm like him, does he like me? He's like, yes,
Speaker 1: he likes you. I DMed you and I said, it
Speaker 1: seems like you really like Joe and I think he's
Speaker 1: a great guy. I think it coulould be a great couple. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I thought you were gonna say shut up, blah blah,
Speaker 1: and you said I like him and I said, go
Speaker 1: for it. And then you said, I don't. You said
Speaker 1: something like, I don't know if he likes me, and
Speaker 1: I said, well, I know one thing. If he does,
Speaker 1: there's no way in hell he thinks you like him.
Speaker 1: So you're gonna have to make the move. That's what
Speaker 1: you said. And uh, so take me through. Were there
Speaker 1: any feelings of it doesn't have to be anxiety, but
Speaker 1: were there any I don't know, scared feelings of wanting
Speaker 1: to move in this direction. Was it like, oh, if
Speaker 1: I do this, I know this is forever, and so I, oh,
Speaker 1: here we go. Did you kind of feel that? No, No,
Speaker 1: because I didn't. We were hanging out a lot. He
Speaker 1: was always showing up. He wants, you know, he always
Speaker 1: wanted to hang out, and we'd hang out for like
Speaker 1: six or seven hours. We'd go to Malibu. We'd go
Speaker 1: to the Santa Monica Pier. It was like a scenes
Speaker 1: out of a romantic comedy montage. It was now, you know,
Speaker 1: like but nothing was happening. We would go to lunch,
Speaker 1: have two margarita's, then we'd end up at Starbucks at
Speaker 1: seven pm. Then of course he'd always want to go
Speaker 1: to the Laugh Factor and i'd be like, drop me off.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm like that. I wasn't interested in going
Speaker 1: and doing stand up. He was, and he that's his life.
Speaker 1: So we were hanging out, hanging out, and then it
Speaker 1: wasn't like I was scared. I mean, who knows what's
Speaker 1: going on with my subconscious and all of that. But
Speaker 1: as far as I know, as soon as I felt
Speaker 1: that way, it was an emergency. I was like, well, wait,
Speaker 1: I have to make sure that they can be a relationship.
Speaker 1: Like I have to make sure that his penis is
Speaker 1: the right size for my calapas, Like I had to
Speaker 1: make sure of all of these logistical kind of nuances
Speaker 1: for my own sake of mind, because that was my
Speaker 1: whole narrative in my head. You know now it sounds
Speaker 1: so silly, but like all those things had to click
Speaker 1: before I could be like, we're in a relationship and not,
Speaker 1: well not, I'll let you ask me the next question,
Speaker 1: so I don't jump. You can say it. I don't
Speaker 1: know what you're gonna say. Well, I was gonna say.
Speaker 1: By the time we re established that something was happening,
Speaker 1: I was like, we're going to stand a Barbara forty
Speaker 1: eight hours, like to audition this idea and if at
Speaker 1: the end of it everything's ago, then you know, like
Speaker 1: by the end of that forty eight hours, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're in a relationship now, like you know, whereever. But
Speaker 1: I mean, it's funny because as silly as it sounds,
Speaker 1: what's this panis like, do we have chemistry? It is important.
Speaker 1: You can't just like be in love with someone and
Speaker 1: not of chemistry or else. There's no difference between them
Speaker 1: and your platonic friends. But did you feel that part
Speaker 1: of that thinking was the old brain and then the
Speaker 1: new brain really settled into what was I don't want
Speaker 1: to say more important, but the rest of it. Yes,
Speaker 1: I think all of your old habits are always into
Speaker 1: like living themselves out through you, right, it's just about you.
Speaker 1: Like I mean, yeah, he was standing in front of
Speaker 1: me this whole time, and I couldn't see him, so
Speaker 1: clearly I had issues because everything that I could ever
Speaker 1: want in a person, he has like everything. So for
Speaker 1: me not to be able to see that in front
Speaker 1: of my eyes, I'm like, oh God, what a baby.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I don't I don't rate
Speaker 1: myself like that because I'm like, oh, well, at least
Speaker 1: you fucking woke up to it. Like, thank goodness that
Speaker 1: I was, you know, I got with the program and
Speaker 1: was able to see him for who he is and
Speaker 1: how much he adores me and how much he cares
Speaker 1: for me, and it makes me be able to, you know,
Speaker 1: do the same in return, exceeding any levels of caring
Speaker 1: or loving I have done in my past. And did
Speaker 1: you find it easy to accept how much he cared
Speaker 1: for you? It's not like you were pushing in a
Speaker 1: way or anything like that. I mean, all that work
Speaker 1: you've done, it must have been a little easier than
Speaker 1: it maybe would have been before. I don't know if
Speaker 1: that's something you can really measure, you know, because that's
Speaker 1: a subconscious thing too, Like you're resisting something clearly because
Speaker 1: you don't feel comfortable with it. So there there I am,
Speaker 1: you know, not wanting to be loved in that way,
Speaker 1: and then just kind of almost capitulating to it, like
Speaker 1: seeing so many demonstrations of it that you're like, like,
Speaker 1: you know the marble jar that burn A Brown talks about,
Speaker 1: do you know that? No? Where she talks about friendships
Speaker 1: and family relationships and like love relationships. There when you
Speaker 1: have a relationship up was somebody there are so many
Speaker 1: marbles in the jar after years and acts of kindness
Speaker 1: and showing up at someone's door, and you know, whatever
Speaker 1: a friendship is built out of. And so when that
Speaker 1: person does something that you don't like, you know, depending
Speaker 1: on how full that jar is, you're able to forgive them.
Speaker 1: But if there are a few marbles in the jar,
Speaker 1: it's like, we'll wait a second. Now you're skating on
Speaker 1: thin ice. Right, Like he had put so many marbles
Speaker 1: in the marble jar that I was like, Oh, this
Speaker 1: is my person, Like I'm supposed to be with this person.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't even on a intellectual level. It was
Speaker 1: like I felt it like from my mother and from
Speaker 1: my brother. I'm like a spiritual like, Oh this is
Speaker 1: part of my family. I'm supposed to be with this man.
Speaker 1: And my family wasn't gonna let go until they made
Speaker 1: sure that I saw him. Oh it's so beautiful. Oh
Speaker 1: I know, it's sweet. It makes materior eyed, But that's
Speaker 1: how I felt. I like that you brought up the
Speaker 1: Bernie Brown marble thing because anyone listening, you know, if
Speaker 1: you're going to advise someone about picking the right person
Speaker 1: for them. It's tough. I mean, it's so good that
Speaker 1: you knew him all this time because he loved you
Speaker 1: so fully, and that you know, you wouldn't if you
Speaker 1: knew someone ten minutes. That would be weird, you know
Speaker 1: it when being the love bombing that a narcissist or
Speaker 1: so so does I have this great well wait, let
Speaker 1: me tell you this great little thing. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I told you this already, but Tiffany hotsh We're
Speaker 1: in Vegas one night and Tiffany, did I tell you this? Maybe?
Speaker 1: So we go there perform in Vegas. He's at the Win.
Speaker 1: We go out after to this you know club, and
Speaker 1: Tiffany gets on stage right before she's getting on stage
Speaker 1: because she's singing Tina Turner or something. Um, she goes
Speaker 1: Chelsea like she she just realized we had were together, right,
Speaker 1: it was new. And she goes, Chelsey, I gotta tell
Speaker 1: you something. Nobody well ever love you the way looks
Speaker 1: but you did tell me that yeah, And I was
Speaker 1: like huh, And she goes, he has loved you for
Speaker 1: so many years and he loves you. And I was like,
Speaker 1: I couldn't you know? And she and then she went
Speaker 1: on to tell me stories and I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, this man like it's almost like what you
Speaker 1: dream about when you're a little girl and you're You're like,
Speaker 1: I'm going to find my Prince Charming who's loved me
Speaker 1: this whole time from Afar And I didn't know, and
Speaker 1: he just was seeing me and seeing me It's like
Speaker 1: that happened. Yeah, he sees you. But you do have
Speaker 1: a responsibility, which I'm sure you take very seriously. Right,
Speaker 1: you can't just as I said before, you know, react,
Speaker 1: do whatever you know he'll forgive you. I'm sure that,
Speaker 1: I'm sure that there's a lot of respect that you
Speaker 1: have for him, that you know that that is an
Speaker 1: active amount of respect. Yeah, yeah, I mean, of course,
Speaker 1: now I know what that word means, you know, respecting
Speaker 1: other people, respecting. You know that before it was like
Speaker 1: about gaining respect. I think you know, as a girl,
Speaker 1: you're just always trying to prove that you're worthwhile. So
Speaker 1: in lieu of respecting other people, I was trying to, like,
Speaker 1: you know, incurage on myself. So now I'm in a
Speaker 1: stage where I do respect other people and I get it,
Speaker 1: and I you know, of course I respect him. I
Speaker 1: love everything about him. I mean, we couldn't be more different,
Speaker 1: you know, So it's so easy to be fascinated by him.
Speaker 1: That's fun too, because you kind of can't grow out
Speaker 1: of that. Also, you too remind me unlike other relationships
Speaker 1: you've had, is you'll grow and change together. Like you'll
Speaker 1: probably change, but there's room for you to change and
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter to him. And you guys might change
Speaker 1: together in your own ways. It's like there's three different
Speaker 1: lanes here. He'll change, you'll find that interesting. You'll change,
Speaker 1: he'll find that interesting, And you guys will develop things
Speaker 1: together as you get older. Not a lot of relationships
Speaker 1: have that kind of elasticity. It's like the minute somebody
Speaker 1: jumps out of the I don't know what you call it,
Speaker 1: like routine, that's kind of it. Yeah, now we're I
Speaker 1: think we're going to be growing together for a while.
Speaker 1: Like he's pretty open to whatever I'm open to, and
Speaker 1: you know, I'm pretty open to everything. So he's up
Speaker 1: here skiing with me, for instance, and whistler, Like he's
Speaker 1: been here for three weeks. He was here for my
Speaker 1: family with my family for Christmas. It was like the
Speaker 1: first time that you know, I have an addition instead
Speaker 1: of a subtraction in my love life, Like he like
Speaker 1: my nieces and nephews all just text him now they
Speaker 1: don't even bother with me like that he's cooler, and
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I fucking love this. That is so great.
Speaker 1: And so for anyone listening, I know we talked to
Speaker 1: you were saying, you know, I don't want to you know,
Speaker 1: if you guys ever got married or something like that.
Speaker 1: You're like, I just don't want to have people think
Speaker 1: that I'm saying, this is the ultimate thing. Everyone has
Speaker 1: to have a partner. And I used to be so independent,
Speaker 1: and I don't think people will look at it that
Speaker 1: way because you seem completely yourself. You know, you haven't
Speaker 1: lost anything. You haven't said I'm not complete without him
Speaker 1: and all that kind of thing. So what does it
Speaker 1: feel like to be in a healthy relationship in terms
Speaker 1: of that notion that you had before where well, you
Speaker 1: I guess you can't have independence and love. How does
Speaker 1: it feel now that you're in something healthy where you
Speaker 1: I assume have both. I mean, I do feel strongly
Speaker 1: about setting an example for women, Like I feel very
Speaker 1: strongly that I want women to know that you don't
Speaker 1: ever have to subscribe to any of this bullshit to
Speaker 1: lead a full and happy life, like you can fucking
Speaker 1: make your money, do your thing and not adhere to
Speaker 1: any of this, you know, bullshit and capitalism and weddings
Speaker 1: and lah. At the same time, you know, I'm torn
Speaker 1: because he I know this isn't your question, but I'll
Speaker 1: I love it. I asked two questions that were totally different,
Speaker 1: so you know, I also asked myself two separate questions,
Speaker 1: so I'm answering. And then he said and then he
Speaker 1: and Joe wants to get there, you know, He's like,
Speaker 1: that's the ultimate and I'm like, okay, well, I want
Speaker 1: to give that to you. But I'm also like pretty
Speaker 1: pretty tied to being an example for women. You know,
Speaker 1: I feel like I oh everything to younger women and
Speaker 1: older women and any woman that's listening to me that
Speaker 1: I want to set an example of independence and freedom.
Speaker 1: And I would say, you know, to speak to what
Speaker 1: this podcast is about and encapsulates, which is the idea
Speaker 1: of anxiety freedom. You know, it is the antidote to anxiety,
Speaker 1: like ultimate freedom ultimately being able to say no, I'm
Speaker 1: not going there, I don't want to do that job.
Speaker 1: I don't need that money. I don't like I don't
Speaker 1: have to date that person because I'm forty five and
Speaker 1: it's getting to be a more narrow thing. The freedom
Speaker 1: of independence and liberty. You know, freedom is a tricky
Speaker 1: word to use as a white woman, but I mean
Speaker 1: it in the sense of, you know, emotionally and intellectually
Speaker 1: free of any of those underpinnings. You know, to be
Speaker 1: able to say I'm gonna sit in my house in
Speaker 1: Whistler for six months and read books and tell everyone
Speaker 1: to go funk off is freedom. And that's how I
Speaker 1: feel about out everything, and I want women to know
Speaker 1: that that is like very accessible when you have only
Speaker 1: one focus, which is to be free. Well, that's why
Speaker 1: you don't nauseate me when you talk about Joe, because
Speaker 1: I know you're completely free and this is for fun,
Speaker 1: like I had a therapist day to me once. You know,
Speaker 1: relationships are for fun and for free their extra you know,
Speaker 1: they're not completing anybody, they're not making you know, we
Speaker 1: all still die at the end of the day. You know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't take all the scar eas away, it doesn't
Speaker 1: fix you. It's just a nice added bonus. And and
Speaker 1: you can tell when someone's talking when they feel like
Speaker 1: they're being fixed or they're finally being acceptable to society,
Speaker 1: it's it's uncomfortable. And so you don't give me that vibe.
Speaker 1: But I think that you know, actually give me that vibe,
Speaker 1: jen Oh, I did just sitting here. Now you know,
Speaker 1: the whole interview, even before we go on Anxiety Bites,
Speaker 1: will be right back after a quick little message from
Speaker 1: one of our sponsors. You know this is going to
Speaker 1: air around Valentine's Day, So let's see. Let me say this,
Speaker 1: I want Chelsea's anxiety free love tips in terms of
Speaker 1: looking for a partner, What should people put on their
Speaker 1: list of I will not accept this, and I demand
Speaker 1: this what you don't have to have a whole long list.
Speaker 1: I realize I'm just springing this on you. Well, I
Speaker 1: mean I would say to cross those two things right
Speaker 1: off the list. Like I think any sort of parameters
Speaker 1: when you're talking about love should be thrown out the window. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I just think we all have to be
Speaker 1: a little bit less judgmental and a little bit more
Speaker 1: open minded too, in order to see what's coming your way.
Speaker 1: And I speak from experience. We I wish my eyes
Speaker 1: were wide or open. You know, you can talk about
Speaker 1: timing and whatever, but I you know, I think that
Speaker 1: that is something that I would say to urge everyone
Speaker 1: who's listening to do is to open your eyes a
Speaker 1: little bit more and just stop judging and open like
Speaker 1: yourself to like the possibilities. And I think, you know,
Speaker 1: that will go a long way for so many women
Speaker 1: because we just spend so much time building roadblocks. I
Speaker 1: love that you just threw away those parameters. That that's
Speaker 1: such a cool way to end the episode. If this
Speaker 1: was Oprah, I would just be like pointing to the
Speaker 1: audience and nodding, and they'd be cheering, and I'd be like, Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: she put me in my place on that one. I'm
Speaker 1: actually doing Oprah right after this Super Soul Sunday. Oh,
Speaker 1: even though it's a Wednesday. She's actually on call waiting
Speaker 1: right now. She's like, oh, wait, I should I should
Speaker 1: let you go. Oh my god, wait how she was
Speaker 1: your sister's poem or song about Joe over Christmas? Oh
Speaker 1: my god, it was so cute. I'll have to do it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: My families really, my family is really into Joe KOI.
Speaker 1: So it's like, thank you for getting this relationship because
Speaker 1: it's sort of made up. I mean, my family never
Speaker 1: bothers me about that stuff. But it was almost like, oh,
Speaker 1: what's so happy about you and Joe Koib You just
Speaker 1: don't even understand. I was like, She's like, I mean,
Speaker 1: you're my parents were so funny because you get them
Speaker 1: in person. Yeah, that's right. I can't believe those two
Speaker 1: just go from one gambling mecca to the next three.
Speaker 1: It's crazy. They look fucking awesome, by the way, So
Speaker 1: that means you've got a long way to go. You
Speaker 1: better get ready, girl, Chelsea. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: being with me. Um. I just uh, this is a
Speaker 1: fun episode. I'm hoping a Valentine's episode that doesn't bum
Speaker 1: people out. I think they'll be really inspired and the
Speaker 1: at the very at least the laugh. Yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: this is a good episode. I had a great time
Speaker 1: with you. I'm glad that we did this. Thank you
Speaker 1: for asking me. You send it like a robot at
Speaker 1: the end. There. Well, I'm gonna ask you to come
Speaker 1: on mine too, my podcast too. I will let's just
Speaker 1: you know, go through my people really busy. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: I'll let you go. I'm gonna hang up and go
Speaker 1: eat pizza. Okay, have a great night. Thank you. I
Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed this episode with Chelsea. Again, if you
Speaker 1: want to send an email to the show Anxiety Bites
Speaker 1: Weekly at gmail dot com, and you can tell me
Speaker 1: how this podcast has helped you. You can ask me
Speaker 1: any questions, if you need any advice that maybe I
Speaker 1: could answer, if you wanted to talk about the ways
Speaker 1: that you've had anxiety, your triumphant stories of anxiety and
Speaker 1: panic and what you did to overcome it and how
Speaker 1: it's going now, anything you want. When I do listener
Speaker 1: email episodes, we can hopefully get yours on the air.
Speaker 1: Anxiety Bites Weekly at gmail dot com doesn't have to be,
Speaker 1: you know, an opus, just a paragraph or two or
Speaker 1: half a page, whatever you want. So here's some takeaways
Speaker 1: from Chelsea. For Chelsea, it's important to her to not
Speaker 1: react right away. So if she's feeling an emotion, something,
Speaker 1: a heightened state angry about something, do not whip up
Speaker 1: an email five minutes after you felt that way for
Speaker 1: the first time? Can you wait twenty four hours? And then,
Speaker 1: as Chelsea says, by the next day she doesn't even
Speaker 1: remember feeling that way anymore. So can you move from
Speaker 1: being reactive to taking action when it's necessary. Chelsea read
Speaker 1: a book about relationship styles called Attached that taught her
Speaker 1: a lot about anxious and avoidant and secure attachment styles.
Speaker 1: When Chelsea's brother passed away and she was a young girl,
Speaker 1: her brain in a way almost freezes in time in
Speaker 1: that mode. Where as a nine year old, she intellectually
Speaker 1: interpreted this as being abandoned, and then it creates a
Speaker 1: deep hurt. But you don't necessarily process or feel all
Speaker 1: of that as a child, and if you don't look
Speaker 1: at it later, you can kind of stay in that place.
Speaker 1: And that's what she had to move through. Also for Chelsea,
Speaker 1: therapy is something that you can do and then go
Speaker 1: out into the world and fly and then come back
Speaker 1: if there are ever any more problems that you need
Speaker 1: to work on. Everybody uses therapy in a different way,
Speaker 1: and for people that are afraid that, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm have to go every day for the rest of
Speaker 1: my life, Nope, it also can look like this. And
Speaker 1: I think that was it. I think I did some
Speaker 1: of the takeaways in the beginning when I talked about
Speaker 1: the intimacy of friendships. But let's just add that in
Speaker 1: here that having true intimacy with yourself and friends is
Speaker 1: a great practice point for eventually having it in love relationships.
Speaker 1: And until you find that love relationship if you're looking
Speaker 1: for one, the intimacy you have with yourself and your
Speaker 1: friends is so fulfilling it may take away some of
Speaker 1: the pain and the longing that you have for a relationship. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed this episode. We'll see you next
Speaker 1: week when I am going to be um talking to
Speaker 1: a therapist about the attachment styles that people have in
Speaker 1: love and why it is not a thing to say
Speaker 1: you have a bad picker. There's a whole other scientific
Speaker 1: reason behind not quote picking the right people. So I
Speaker 1: hope you'll stay with me next week on our two
Speaker 1: weeks back to back all Love, all the Time theme,
Speaker 1: you're on anxiety bites and just remember anxiety bites, but
Speaker 1: you're in control. For more podcasts for My Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.