WEBVTT - Doubt [10] 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.360 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:07.400 those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:10.760 and do not necessarily represent those of iHeart Media, How 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:17.080 Stuff Works, or its employees. When Michael Majeau was recovering 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:20.240 in the hospital, there's evidence that he was shown photographs 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:24.239 of several suspects, people who had been identified by police 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:28.400 as potential suspects, but there was no solid evidence against them. 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:31.320 Michael Majau was the sole survivor from the Blue Rock 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.920 Springs attack on July four, nine sixty nine. He was 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:38.440 shown photos of potential suspects the morning after the shooting. 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:42.000 As far as we know, according to those police reports, 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:46.000 he never identified any of those individuals at the time. 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:49.600 Alan wasn't in the photo lineup because he wasn't a suspect. 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:56.279 Decades later, in Michael Magee was shown a set of 0:00:56.280 --> 0:01:01.120 photographs by retired detective George Bauert from the Leo Police Department. 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:04.680 One of the individuals in that photo lineup was Arthur 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:09.200 Lee Allen. When shown this lineup, according to George Bowart, 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:12.959 Michael Joe pointed to Arthur Lee Allen's photograph and said 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.639 that's him that's the man who shot me. And George 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:20.840 Bowart said, are you sure, and he said yes. It 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:24.640 had been more than two decades since the Zodiac attacked Majeaux, 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:28.600 and since that time, Robert Gray Smith's book had popularized 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:31.399 the case against Arthur Lee Allen, which led to Allan's 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:35.120 name and face being widely circulated. It made sense for 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:39.920 Majo to pick Allen in the lineup, but that wasn't 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:44.080 the end of Michael Majoe's statement in It's what happened 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.520 next that changed Michael Butterfield's opinion. And then he pointed 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:51.840 to the photograph of another individual in that lineup and 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:56.000 said he had a face like him, and the Valo 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.960 Police Department did not consider his identification to be valid. 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:04.280 Arthur Lee Allen at the time in ninety nine did 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:08.480 not match the description provided by Michael Michelle. And that's 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:11.440 sort of when I woke up to that phenomenon that 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:14.760 every time you're hearing about the Zodiac case, it's in 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:18.400 the prism of someone's theory. It's not the facts, and 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:22.079 they're tailoring those facts to suit their theory. It's also 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.720 why Michael Butterfield began to doubt Gray Smith's account of events. 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:28.040 There was a period of time where I was really 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:30.519 impressed with that book and thought that was the whole story. 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:33.079 And then over a short period of time, I started 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:36.000 to realize there's a lot more to that story than 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:40.440 that book. Butterfield doesn't think Arthur Lee Allen is the killer. 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:45.120 And so over a period of years I realized that 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.519 the story that you hear about the Zodiac case is 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.640 not the real story. And as you examine the facts, 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:56.000 that story starts to disintegrate, and behind it is this 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:59.360 other story which is much more interesting. It's the true 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:02.200 story of what happened, but that's not often what you 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:10.800 hear in public. A man in a mask robbed, tied, 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:15.160 and stabbed them, leaving them for dad. Subjects stated, I 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:19.359 want to report a murder, no a double murder. I 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:23.640 did it. A man who wore an evil style executioner's hood, 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:28.120 carried a knife and gun and intended to use them. 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:32.280 They haven't Arrestipe because they can't move it. I'm not 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:36.160 damn Zodiac. Who is the Zodiac? And where is he? 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:40.440 From my Heart Radio, How Stuff Works and Tenderfoot TV, 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:46.200 this is Monster, the Zodiac Killer. It seemed as if 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:48.880 the odds were stacked against Arthur Lee Allen. His home 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:52.160 had been searched over multiple occasions, over decades of time. 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.760 He had been harassed by investigators and reporters nearly his 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:58.960 entire life. But almost all the evidence against Arthur Lee 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:02.320 Allen was Circumstan Danchiel, the timing of the last letters, 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:06.040 the odd items found inside his home, his zodiac watch. 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:09.800 A lot of this was based on one book, Robert 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:13.440 gray Smith's Zodiac, But many people began to notice issues 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:16.479 in that book, including some people whose stories were in it. 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:20.760 There's a lot of rumors around. Everybody said, oh, we 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:24.320 paid cash for that house with drug money. Dean Farren 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:27.479 is the former husband of Darlene Farren, the waitress killed 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:31.160 at Blue Rock Springs. The gray Smith book suggests Darlene 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:35.480 had extra money from selling drugs, which perpetuated the rumor 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:39.280 that Dean and Darlene bought their house with that money. 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:41.839 If they would have done any research, they could have 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:43.920 seen that, Okay, there was a mortgage on it. It's 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:46.240 pretty much public record who owns the house and where 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:48.960 it came from. And that wasn't the only issue Dean 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:51.520 had with the gray Smith book. Then the night of 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:56.520 the shooting itself. He says that the Zodiac called the house, which, okay, 0:04:56.560 --> 0:05:00.920 that's probably true somebody did. But he says that from 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:02.920 where he was he could look to the back window 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:05.440 of the house and see who answered the phone. Well, 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:08.599 that's impossible because it's like four blocks away and there's 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:10.960 two big buildings with trees and everything around it, so 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.000 you can tell he never came to town, and geographically 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:16.919 it couldn't be done. And there's quite a few quotes 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:19.120 in the book that I've never spoken to the man. 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.360 When we spoke with the retired Valeo PD detective at rust, 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:26.880 he was also skeptical of the gray Smith book, the 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:30.960 book that was written about the Zodiac by Robert Graysmith. Yeah, 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:35.000 I never was even contacted by that person. He never 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:38.599 asked me about it or anything, so I I don't know. 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:40.680 He has my name and some comments I made in 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:43.000 his book, but I never spoke with the man, forgot 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.760 with him or anything. The book was not the only 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:50.680 source of stories that accused Arthur Lee Allen. There was 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:55.320 also the testimony of Allen's former friend Don Cheney. Cheney's 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:59.560 story heavily implicated Allan, but it's possible he had another motive. 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:03.719 Remember the two men had a falling out because Alan 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:07.919 allegedly tried to molest one of Cheney's children. Could this 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:14.240 be enough motive to try and frame Allan? So by 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:18.160 nineteen seventy one, when the police were investigating, he didn't 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.080 have much to go on or to prove that any 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:22.719 of his accusations were true. They just had to basically 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:26.760 accept what he was saying and then go investigate Allan. Now, 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:30.719 in subsequent years, a lot of people, including myself, who 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:34.159 have gotten access to the police reports, I've interviewed Arthur 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:38.080 Ly Allen's family. UM, I actually interviewed Don Cheney myself 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:41.520 several times, and Don Cheney made statements to me which 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:45.680 were demonstrably false. He embellished elements of his story, he 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:49.120 added elements to his story, he changed elements of his story. 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:53.560 He initially said that this conversation had taken place in 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:59.479 December of nineteen sixty seven, but then he also claimed 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:02.080 that our through Lee, Allen, had been talking about losing 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:05.159 his job, a job that he didn't lose until March 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:09.280 of nineteen eight. So obviously there was something wrong there. 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:11.800 And as soon as Cheney realized that timing didn't match 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:15.040 up with the facts, he changed the date of that conversation. 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.560 The date was always crucial because he was claiming this 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:22.080 occurred before the Zodiac murders began. But later on he 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:24.320 started claiming that Arthur Lee Allen took him to the 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:26.920 scene of the murders on Lake Cremin Road, that he 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:30.640 talked about disabling women's cars by removing the lug nuts 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.200 on their tires. Of course, an allusion to the Kathleen 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:36.920 John's abduction. That doesn't match up with the Cheney's initial 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:39.640 claim that he hadn't talked to Allen since they're falling 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:43.640 out in nineteen sixty nine. Also, Cheney didn't add the 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:47.120 detail about disabling cars until he spoke with police for 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:51.640 the second time in nine years after Grace Smith's book 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:56.560 came out. And what about the connection Cheney made between 0:07:56.680 --> 0:08:01.840 Arthur Lee Allen and Darlene Farren. Remember, Allen had supposedly 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:04.600 told Cheney he had become friendly with Darlene at the 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:08.560 restaurant where she worked, but Cheney didn't remember Darlene when 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.960 he spoke to police in nineteen seventy one and nineteen 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:15.080 ninety one. It wasn't until he spoke with gray Smith, 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:18.720 not the police, that he made the connection. This was 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:21.960 shortly before gray Smith's second book was published in two 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:26.200 thousand two. The discrepancy in Don Cheney's timelines is the 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:30.040 same with Arthur Lee Allen's watch. Cheney claimed Allen showed 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:33.640 off his new watch on January one, nineteen sixty nine, 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.920 but Allen's brother Ron said that's not true. Ron claimed 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.080 their mother gave Allen that watch for Christmas in nineteen 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:45.640 sixty seven, the year before. But Cheney originally didn't tell 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:49.760 this to police. Again, it wasn't until years after the 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:54.400 nineteen six Zodiac book was published that Cheney supposedly remembered 0:08:54.400 --> 0:09:00.480 this story. So there's some serious, serious problems with Cheney 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:04.040 and his credibility, and he's the foundation for all of this. 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.920 I was forced to conclude that Don Cheney was not truthful, 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.040 and that wasn't because I don't like Allen as a suspect, 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:13.880 or because I just didn't want to believe him, because 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:18.840 that's what the facts indicate. That coupled with the accumulated 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:23.080 effect of years of misinformation and propaganda, combined into this 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:28.600 horrible situation for Arthur Lee Allen. Where now most people 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:32.080 were convinced of his guilt, but the information used to 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:35.680 convince them was usually not the truth. I've often thought 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.200 about what must have happened when the book Zodiac came 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:41.760 out and had said that Arthur Lee Allen's family believed 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.960 that he was the Zodiac and had reported him to police. 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:49.640 That was not true. Arthur Ly Allen's family never suspected 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:52.439 that he was the Zodiac. They never reported him to police. 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:55.360 But can you imagine the problems that created in his 0:09:55.480 --> 0:10:03.319 family If you think about something like Occam's Razor, was 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:07.320 the most logical explanation that the explanation with the least 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:12.160 unnecessary parts, Then the most likely explanation is that Arthur 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:15.280 Lee Allen was not the Zodiac, and that the reason 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.240 most people think he is the Zodiac is because of 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:22.040 that book and then the film adaptation by David Fincher 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:25.800 in two thousand seven, which also altered some facts to 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:29.400 make Allen look more guilty than the facts would permit. So, 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:32.440 at the end of the day, Arthur Lee Allen is 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:37.040 probably the best known Zodiac suspect. He's probably someone that 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:40.719 many people still believe is guilty, but the facts tell 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:58.800 a very different story. One glaring irregularity in the case 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:03.600 against Arthur Lee Allen was the witness description. Arthur Lee 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:07.199 Allen worked on a hardware store in the Leo and 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:10.120 I had been in that hardware store, and I believe 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.560 that contact with him, and he he was about six 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:17.520 ft five light, you know, a big, hefty guy and 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:20.800 probably wade two hundred and fifty pounds or more, big 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:25.560 big man, and I might I dismissed him mainly because 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:29.360 of my interview with Michael Majoe where he described the 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:33.160 suspect as about five eight or five nine standing next 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:37.160 to that very low profile sports type vehicle that he 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:42.880 was in when he was shot. In my mind, if 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:46.720 Arthur Lee Allen, at six ft five two fifty plus 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:49.680 pounds had walked up to that car, Michael Majoel would 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:53.240 have said this guy was huge or something along that line, 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:57.280 that he would described a very large man, tall, whatever 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:01.160 like that. In his interview with me assistantly stuck to 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:04.840 five a five nine, and the only thing fares being 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:07.920 big and overweight would be the paunch from his belling. 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:13.320 In my mind, that start any anything other than might 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:16.880 what you call gut feeling. There's a cop that Michael 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:19.800 Majol would have given an entirely different description. At the 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:22.440 large man has walked up next to the car too, 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:25.120 But if it's been Arthur Lee Allen, I think it 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:29.720 would have been u much different physical description is at 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:34.120 least in height and weight. Alan's height and weight weren't 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:37.600 the only physical descriptions that didn't add up. Brian Hartnell, 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:41.319 the survivor from Lake Berriessa, did say Alan could possibly 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:45.000 be the Zodiac, but Hartnell also admits the zodiac size 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:47.520 could have been dependent on whether or not the jacket 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:51.200 he was wearing was lined or unlined. Hartnell said if 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:53.880 the killer was wearing a lined jacket, he could have 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:57.600 been a thin man. Again, Hartnell's description didn't match the 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:01.040 six ft two hundred and fifty pound man that was Alan. 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:05.360 But there's a third factor that stands out here. Hartnell said, 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.000 when the Zodiac turned his head, he saw some of 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:11.600 the man's hair and it was brown. Arthur Lee Allen 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:16.560 was balding. But it wasn't only victims who said that 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:20.680 Allan didn't match the zodiac's description. It's also interesting to 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:24.520 note that Don Falk, the police officer who reportedly saw 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:26.880 the Zodiac at the scene of the last known murder, 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:30.000 said that Arthur Lee Allen didn't match the description of 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:33.360 the man he saw. Don Falk described the Zodiac as 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.800 a white male adult in his early forties, five ft eight, 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:41.520 heavy billed, reddish, blonde, crew cut, and wearing glasses. Again, 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.880 the description doesn't match Allan's height or weight, and in 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:49.320 all three cases, not one witness mentioned the Zodiac as balding. 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:53.120 Majau wasn't the only person in to be shown a 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:57.920 photographic lineup. Kathleen John's, the woman who claims the Zodiac 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:01.000 attempted to kidnap her, was all so shown photos of 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:06.480 possible suspects, but John's didn't pick Allen, she chose someone else. 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.440 The eyewitness accounts of the Zodiac didn't match Arthur Lee Allen, 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.920 but there was another major factor that also didn't add 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:20.760 up his handwriting. My name is Susan Morton. I am 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:26.720 retired from the San Francisco Police Crime Laboratory, whereas served 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:31.720 for some years as their forensic document examiner. A forensic 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:36.520 document examiner uses scientific processes to study documents from crime scenes. 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:40.600 Examiners not only compare handwriting, but they can also tell 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:43.280 where the material came from, and if the document has 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:47.520 been altered, I would usually start with the known writing. 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:52.200 My method was to sketch it in my own effort, 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:56.440 and that would make me pay attention to things like size. 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.760 Gray shows like if you have a T H combination, 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:05.240 which is a pretty common combination of letters, which one 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.080 is taller, and you'll find that a writer is very 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:13.120 consistent about these ratios. I will figure all of those 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:17.400 out and get fixed in my mind not only how 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:22.160 this person forms letters and the ratios and things like that, 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:28.080 but how they vary. People are not machines, and they're 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.280 never going to write exactly the same way twice, but 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:36.160 they're going to vary within certain parameters. Susan worked at 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:38.440 a Bay Area laboratory that had done most of the 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:41.800 original work on the Zodiac case. At the time. The 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:45.240 San Francisco Police Department used that lab because they didn't 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.560 have a document examiner on staff. The first thing I 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:53.840 would do is see if it was naturally written. When 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:59.240 someone is attempting to copy someone else's signature, they're not 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:05.000 actually right. They're drawing a picture. Drawing and writing are 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:10.000 completely different acts from the writing that is copied. Looks 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:13.400 very different from normal writing. I'm not going to be 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:16.840 able to tell who did create debt, but I can 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:21.240 determine that the person whose signature it supposedly is did 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:25.320 not write it, because nobody forges their own signature like that. 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:31.080 That's a very laborious process. Susan inherited the Zodiac case 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:34.400 from the San Francisco Police Department. She became what she 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:38.720 calls the custodian of the letters. Susan would do handwriting 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:42.280 comparisons every time a new Zodiac suspect was offered up. 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:48.400 The Zodiac letters were handprinted, and they were extremely fluently 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:55.360 done very rapidly. When you're going fast, you don't have 0:16:55.800 --> 0:17:00.720 the ability to disguise your handwriting because you're going to 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.840 do what your program tells you to do if you're 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:08.640 going fast. And you can tell this by how the 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.000 ends of the letters tail off into a little feathered 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:17.000 because them flying finishes. So I knew that the body 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:21.919 of that writing was the way that person wrote. This 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:30.280 wasn't some disguise that had been devised. The writing had 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:35.120 a right right hand slant, and the D was consistently 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:39.240 more slanted than any of the other letters, and that's 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:44.320 very unusual characteristic and that was consistent throughout all of 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:48.199 the Zodiac's writing. I was of the opinion that it 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:52.399 was the natural writing of that person. Natural handwriting is 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:55.680 the way a person writes with their dominant hand. For example, 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:58.040 if someone who was right handed tried to write with 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:02.600 their left hand, that writing wouldn't be considered natural. Some 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.960 people theorized Arthur Lee Allen was ambidextrous and he could 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:09.280 have used his less dominant hand to help disguise his writing, 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.680 but that wouldn't have worked because even if he used 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:16.200 his other hand, it still would have been his natural handwriting. 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:20.560 Susan doesn't believe Arthur Lee Allen disguised his handwriting based 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:26.240 on her findings, and there were numerous consistent differences with 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:31.280 the writing of Arthur ly Allen. I had copious amounts 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:35.520 of his writing contemporaneous to the Zodiac letters. Remember they 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:39.800 were written back in the sixties and early seventies. But 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.439 I had writing of arthurly Allen's from back then, and 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:47.160 it was writing that he did and what we call 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:51.280 a normal course of business. It wasn't something he sat 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:54.200 down and wrote to be used as a handwriting exemplar. 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:59.159 It was application forms and things like that, so he 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:02.159 was unaway or anybody would ever look at that when 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:06.880 he wrote it, and there was just no match whatsoever. 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:11.320 The lab also tried to develop fingerprints from the letters, 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.320 but the only usable print developed was a palm print. 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:17.600 It's called a writer's palm, the way a person's hand 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:21.280 rests on a page when they write. So we were 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:24.920 virtually certain that those prints did belong to the writer 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:29.320 of the letters. And also I believe that they did 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:34.919 do a comparison of his palm print to these writer's palms, 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.919 and there were several of those of different letters, and 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:44.880 they did not match his palm print. So I don't 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:48.480 think he did not write the Zodiac letters. There was 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:53.679 no indication and much indication that he didn't write it. 0:19:56.000 --> 0:20:01.960 Every investigation of him eventually cleared him, so it was 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:20.119 not the Zodiac m h. When Arthur Lee Allen was 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:23.360 first questioned in October of nineteen sixty nine, he thought 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:27.040 it made him seem important for the first time. Maybe 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:31.200 instead of being viewed as some pathetic child molester, now 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:33.320 he was being viewed as one of the most brilliant 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:36.840 master criminals in history. And it appears that he may 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.679 have bragged about that and may have talked about that. 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:42.960 At least Arthur Lee. Allen's family thought that at first 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:46.679 he enjoyed that kind of attention, and then it backfired. 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:50.040 It took a lot of my tapes, they took a 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:56.040 samples of my handwriting, and then it became permanent, and 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:58.639 it became a cloud as shadow that followed him for 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:01.560 the rest of his life. I've never been known through 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:05.080 good luck, and I guess this is pretty much living 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:10.280 proof of it. I couldn't murder anyone, but if you 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:14.040 put yourself in his shoes, most people wouldn't want to 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:16.320 be accused of murder. And if they were going to 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:18.920 be accused of murder, at least do it with the facts. 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:25.479 Don't use fiction to accuse somebody. Two types of liars 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:28.479 in the world fishermen and policeman, and not necessarily in 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:32.359 that order. So it's got to be a really terrible 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:34.480 place to be to know that there's a book out 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:37.679 there that claims you're the Zodiac and people believe it. 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:40.920 And while at first you might be tempted to play 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:44.200 along and say, you know, yeah, well maybe I am 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:48.240 the Zodiac or whatever, then it becomes a ball of 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:55.760 chain that you cannot escape. I'm not the Zodiac killer. 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:02.480 I know that. I know that deep my soul. And 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:05.400 by the time they were searching Allen's home and he's 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:08.760 being interviewed by the police and his name is all 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:13.439 over the place, it was all over. At that point, 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:16.880 he had no choice anymore, and he is now going 0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:19.640 to forever be known as the man that was most 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:25.320 likely the Zodiac. I couldn't murder anyone. It's difficult as hell, 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:32.600 and it can be ex it could be terribly depressing. 0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:37.400 And if I had deserved any of it, that would 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:51.000 be something different, but I don't today. Ballejo police investigators 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:54.919 said they never charged Allen because they couldn't explain discrepancies 0:22:54.960 --> 0:23:01.320 in the Zodiac's handwriting. Then you haven't arrested, maybe because 0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:07.679 they can't prove a pain. I'm not damn Zodiac, the 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:12.200 Zodiac killer or victim of years at police harassment. Arthur 0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:16.239 Lee Allen took the answer to his grave. Arthur Lee 0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:21.560 Allen died from natural causes in August of Valio Police 0:23:21.560 --> 0:23:25.160 Department officials found him unresponsive on the floor in his basement. 0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:29.400 A polygraph agreement was resting in his printer. The Valeo 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:32.800 police had been pushing for Alan to take another polygraph test, 0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:36.360 and it seemed he had decided to give in. At 0:23:36.400 --> 0:23:39.680 fifty eight years old, he was still fighting to prove 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:44.240 his innocence. He was one of the most unluckiest people 0:23:44.640 --> 0:23:48.960 on the planet because it literally destroyed him. He ended 0:23:49.040 --> 0:23:51.320 up dying about a year after the first search of 0:23:51.400 --> 0:23:54.760 his home, and of course they might as well have 0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:58.119 carved onto his gravestone the man most people thought was 0:23:58.160 --> 0:24:03.440 the Zodiac. So what you're left with is a man 0:24:03.480 --> 0:24:06.159 who has been accused for almost fifty years on the 0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:11.520 basis of statements made by two very questionable witnesses. None 0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:14.959 of the evidence implicates them in the crimes. Every single 0:24:15.119 --> 0:24:19.040 time they find some evidence, whether it's fingerprints, handwriting, DNA 0:24:19.160 --> 0:24:23.119 palm prints, or eyewitness descriptions, it doesn't match Allen, and 0:24:23.200 --> 0:24:25.760 his accusers will tell you that's because he's a master 0:24:25.840 --> 0:24:28.960 criminal who was brilliant and could fake evidence and get 0:24:28.960 --> 0:24:31.800 away with it. One of those people who clung to 0:24:31.840 --> 0:24:35.400 the belief it was Arthur Lee Allen was Inspector Dave Toski. 0:24:35.880 --> 0:24:38.160 He was first brought onto the case during the cab 0:24:38.280 --> 0:24:42.639 driver murder in San Francisco, While Tski hunted for connections 0:24:42.680 --> 0:24:46.760 to prove alan was the Zodiac, others began to look elsewhere. 0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:53.080 In the late nineteen eighties, I began working for a 0:24:53.119 --> 0:24:57.040 company called Orchards Supply Hardware, and later I became a 0:24:57.160 --> 0:25:02.639 what's quota regional loss prevention est purity manager for the 0:25:03.359 --> 0:25:08.000 hardware stores. I belonged to a couple of different security 0:25:08.040 --> 0:25:13.240 associations and one of them, at a luncheon that I 0:25:13.280 --> 0:25:16.520 attended at one of the security organizations, they had a 0:25:16.560 --> 0:25:20.240 guest speaker who was going to do a presentation on 0:25:20.320 --> 0:25:24.399 the Zodiac Killer. And it turned up to be a 0:25:24.840 --> 0:25:29.040 man named Harvey Hines Hi n e s who was 0:25:30.080 --> 0:25:33.040 actually a police officer, but he had never never worked 0:25:33.040 --> 0:25:37.880 in any jurisdiction where any of the claimed Zodiac killings. Yeah, 0:25:38.000 --> 0:25:41.280 he gave a presentation and showed that he had identified 0:25:41.320 --> 0:25:45.440 a person named Larry Kine that he believed was the Zodiac. 0:25:48.359 --> 0:25:52.720 Next time on Monster the Zodiac Killer, and it was 0:25:52.800 --> 0:25:56.560 just so creepy again, just so freaked out. This woman 0:25:56.600 --> 0:25:59.359 is she just quit her job And Larry King was 0:25:59.400 --> 0:26:04.879 just a cree be odd char stories like that because 0:26:04.920 --> 0:26:08.080 he was part of the mom he may have turned 0:26:08.119 --> 0:26:13.679 somebody in and they put him into protection program. For 0:26:13.720 --> 0:26:16.800 the last nine years, the Zodiac investigation has been headed 0:26:16.800 --> 0:26:21.159 by homicide Inspector David Tusky. I had rulishel de fating 0:26:21.240 --> 0:26:23.080 that he was not dead and that he was out 0:26:23.119 --> 0:26:28.040 there somewhere and that he would communicate. There is no 0:26:28.240 --> 0:26:32.360 official police clamp on Inspectatoski talking with the media. That 0:26:32.400 --> 0:26:35.639 matter is entirely up to him. It went off like 0:26:35.640 --> 0:26:39.160 a flash. Oh my goodness, that definitely looks like Zodiac. 0:26:40.040 --> 0:26:41.840 So we want to just make some advancements, you know, 0:26:42.000 --> 0:26:44.280 and get something major. I think I've come up with 0:26:44.320 --> 0:26:48.720 something major. It's an interesting bit of information that nobody 0:26:48.760 --> 0:26:51.520 knew about before, and I think where fifty years into it, 0:26:51.600 --> 0:26:58.680 it's time to solve the case. Monster The Zodiac Killer 0:26:59.000 --> 0:27:02.359