WEBVTT - Does my vote count?

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how

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<v Speaker 1>Stuff Works dot com. Hello, welcome to the podcast. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>editor Candas Cason, joined today as usual by start writer

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<v Speaker 1>Josh Clark. Hey, Candice, Hey, Candice, who you're gonna vote for?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm kidding. I wouldn't really ask you that, although I

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<v Speaker 1>did hear recently that, um, there were some Hillary supporters

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<v Speaker 1>who said that they intended to vote for Hillary in

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<v Speaker 1>the general election. Have you heard about that? Um? No,

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<v Speaker 1>I heard there were some Hillary supporters who were going

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<v Speaker 1>to vote for McCain. Uh, and some who for who

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<v Speaker 1>will vote for Obama too, sure, but there are some

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<v Speaker 1>who plan on voting for Hillary. And of course you

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<v Speaker 1>you say, why would you do that? That's a waste

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<v Speaker 1>of a vote, right, sort of like a vote for

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<v Speaker 1>someone like Bob bar someone who's not one of the

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<v Speaker 1>teen major parties, right, or Ross Perrot, who I heard

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<v Speaker 1>was considering throwing his hat in the ring. Why not? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>that's that's a great question. I mean, is it a

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<v Speaker 1>wasted vote? Um? I've spoken to my wife about this. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>she's voted third party before and I'm like, wow, you

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<v Speaker 1>really wasted your vote, didn't you? And I think her

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<v Speaker 1>response with something along the lines of, how is it

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<v Speaker 1>wasting a vote when I'm voting for the person I

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<v Speaker 1>want to vote for rather than voting for someone I

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<v Speaker 1>don't really like to defeat someone I like even less.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it votes a personal it's a personal thing.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not to be used strategically. So I see that,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, I my hat is off to the

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<v Speaker 1>Hillary supporters who are going to vote for Hillary no

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<v Speaker 1>matter what. You know, I they're gonna have to write

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<v Speaker 1>her in. Um. But it kind of brings up this

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<v Speaker 1>question of, you know, just how much does a vote count? Like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, there's been several instances in the history of

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<v Speaker 1>the US where people have voted for one of the

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<v Speaker 1>two major candidates and you know, one of them gets

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<v Speaker 1>the most votes but still doesn't win the presidency. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you were around in two thousand, right, Yes, Okay, I

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<v Speaker 1>was just a baby, but I was here. Have you

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<v Speaker 1>Do you know much about the two thousand election? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>I do. Actually, it all boils down to the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that Gore won the popular vote and by like half

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<v Speaker 1>a million votes, which is pretty close because there's like

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<v Speaker 1>a hundred million votes cast that year. And then Bush

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<v Speaker 1>went on to when they vote from the electoral college. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's funny because predictions said the exact opposite would happen,

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<v Speaker 1>that Bush would win the popular vote and Gore would

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<v Speaker 1>get the votes from the electoral college. Yeah, because this

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<v Speaker 1>is back before you know Gore was the environmentalist that

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<v Speaker 1>he is, or at least as well known as the

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<v Speaker 1>environmentalist that he Isn't I remember him being looked upon

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<v Speaker 1>as fairly stiff. Uh. There's this great Simpsons episode where

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<v Speaker 1>Lisa Simpson buys one of his books, and the information

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<v Speaker 1>that his book has been purchased as transmitted to the

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<v Speaker 1>White House. Somebody comes running and goes, Mr Vice President,

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<v Speaker 1>someone actually bought your book, and he goes, well, this

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<v Speaker 1>calls for a celebration. And he turns around and puts

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<v Speaker 1>the needle on a record player and it's cool and

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<v Speaker 1>the gang celebrate good times, and he goes, I will.

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<v Speaker 1>So he's kind of a stuff shirt. So I'm surprised

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<v Speaker 1>to get a popular vote, or of your that I

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<v Speaker 1>liked him better. He was sort of a solid wall

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<v Speaker 1>of man, and now he's got kind of yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>he's I don't know, I got a little softer. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>you know that that two thousand election was determined by

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<v Speaker 1>two lawsuits that were filed in Florida. Florida was the

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<v Speaker 1>point of contention for the whole thing. Gore wanted a

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<v Speaker 1>recount of the popular vote, and Uh Bush um didn't

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<v Speaker 1>want one. So they sued one another, uh and sued

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<v Speaker 1>the state of Florida because you remember, this whole box

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<v Speaker 1>of votes went missing from the polling station to the

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<v Speaker 1>counting station, right. Um. So there was a bunch of

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<v Speaker 1>contention and everything. Finally the U. S. Supreme Court said, no, Florida,

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<v Speaker 1>you can't extend the deadline for the votes to be counted,

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<v Speaker 1>which meant that a recount wasn't possible. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>by proxy, Bush won the state and the election, which

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<v Speaker 1>kind of leads me to my question, is it fact

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<v Speaker 1>or fiction that my vote, your vote, anyone's vote doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>really count. That's a really tough question, and thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't be miss history today. I think that that's

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<v Speaker 1>really an ideological debate, and but I will be miss

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<v Speaker 1>history for for a few minutes. Actually, I can't say

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<v Speaker 1>whether I'll say it's faction. There you have it, it's faction. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>It all boils down to the actual creation of the

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<v Speaker 1>electoral college, and it wasn't something that we made up willingly.

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<v Speaker 1>The framers of the Constitution put the electoral college in place,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's sort of a compromise between essentially Congress designing

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<v Speaker 1>the next president of the United States or a popular

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<v Speaker 1>vote choosing the next president of the United States. And

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<v Speaker 1>you have to, you know, sort of put the electoral

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<v Speaker 1>college in context and think about the United States. It's

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<v Speaker 1>as a nascent nation. And essentially the opinion among the

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<v Speaker 1>framers of the Constitution was that people in general were

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<v Speaker 1>not educated and informed enough back then to definitely before L.

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<v Speaker 1>Gore invented the Internet, precisely to really make a good choice,

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<v Speaker 1>a good, sound, informed choice for the president. There wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>this widespread dissemination of information. You know. Today, you can

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<v Speaker 1>go on the internet copyright al Gore. You can pick

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<v Speaker 1>up a newspaper, you can download a podcast. There's so

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<v Speaker 1>many ways you can find out, you know, what's really

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<v Speaker 1>going on candidates. But back then they thought people you know,

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<v Speaker 1>far flong across the coast wouldn't really know. So I

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<v Speaker 1>can see this kind of necessary elitism right back then,

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<v Speaker 1>Well I think that's a charged word. Maybe I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know if I would say elitism. I would say, I

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<v Speaker 1>mean they were doing this as the founding fathers, they

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<v Speaker 1>were doing it as a fatherly gesture, and you would

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<v Speaker 1>have to ask yourself, is that still impoor it in today?

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<v Speaker 1>Is that? The second part of my question is is

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<v Speaker 1>it anachronistic? I don't know. Again, I think that's a

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<v Speaker 1>personal choice. I mean, do you honestly believe that everyone

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<v Speaker 1>out there voting is making an affirmed choice, or do

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<v Speaker 1>you think people are saying, well, I like Sarah Palin's hair,

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<v Speaker 1>or I think that Barack Obama's kids are cuter. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And it does seem like, especially in the circus that

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<v Speaker 1>the two thousand and eight uh elections become Uh it does.

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<v Speaker 1>It does strike me that people are making kind of

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<v Speaker 1>shallow judgments about candidates rather than on the issues. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of that is coming from the

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<v Speaker 1>candidates themselves. No one's willing to discuss the issues. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>I was watching the Daily Show last night and they

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<v Speaker 1>had a generic off on the topic of the economy,

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<v Speaker 1>and they wanted to see who could be more generic,

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<v Speaker 1>and uh, actually I think it was a three way

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<v Speaker 1>tie between Obama, McCain and Biden and Sarah Palin actually

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<v Speaker 1>came out sounding you know, the most specific. So, um,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think anyone's really discussing the issue. So how

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<v Speaker 1>can a public be informed about where candidate stands on

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<v Speaker 1>the issues if no one's discussing them at the same time, though,

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<v Speaker 1>this electoral college that you're talking about, who who's who?

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<v Speaker 1>Comprises that? How does that work? It's made up of

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<v Speaker 1>electors and essentially each state has a number of electors

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<v Speaker 1>that are equal to the number of representatives in the House,

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<v Speaker 1>and then the number of senators representatives. Every state has

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<v Speaker 1>two senators and then say a state head five representatives,

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<v Speaker 1>they'd have seven electoral votes, right, okay, which means that

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<v Speaker 1>it's a weighted system. If you're a state that has

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<v Speaker 1>a greater population, you're going to have more, say, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>as far as the electoral college vote goes. So that's

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<v Speaker 1>why when candidates are out stumping, you hear them, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>trying to win a state like Ohio or you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it being really important for them to get the public

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<v Speaker 1>riled up in California. Right, these are the states that

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<v Speaker 1>have the most day, which could be fair or unfair

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<v Speaker 1>depending on where you live. I mean, if you're a

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<v Speaker 1>call Foreignia, and you may feel that you're represented. But

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<v Speaker 1>if you live in a state with a very small

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<v Speaker 1>number of electoral votes, you may feel that your vote

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<v Speaker 1>really doesn't count. But it boils down to two different

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<v Speaker 1>types of electoral votes, and the most popular one is

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<v Speaker 1>called the winner take all system, and forty eight states

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<v Speaker 1>use this. And essentially, when you vote in these states,

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<v Speaker 1>you're casting a vote for the electors, and then the

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<v Speaker 1>electors in turn cast their vote for the president. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so it does because then you know you you've you've

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<v Speaker 1>cast a vote for say the Republican, and you're actually

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<v Speaker 1>voting for the elector right to vote for the Republican Canada, right, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so if enough people elect the Republican, then that Republican

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<v Speaker 1>elector goes to vote. And so it follows the popular vote,

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<v Speaker 1>right most of the time. How when does it not

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<v Speaker 1>when you have what's called a faithless elector, And this

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<v Speaker 1>is when the elector casts a vote that's different from

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<v Speaker 1>the popular vote. And most electors won't do this, and

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<v Speaker 1>there are some states that actually have fines imposed to

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<v Speaker 1>electors who do. I think North Carolina imposes like a

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<v Speaker 1>ten dollar fine. But this is a state law and

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<v Speaker 1>it wouldn't hold water against the constitutional law which says

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<v Speaker 1>you can't do that. So again, I mean if elector,

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<v Speaker 1>if an elector wants to be taken seriously and he

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<v Speaker 1>or she is elected by the state party, they're probably

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<v Speaker 1>going to stay true to that particular party line, but

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<v Speaker 1>they could conceivably betray the vote of the people who

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<v Speaker 1>cast the popular ballots. Yes, I got you. Now. The

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<v Speaker 1>other system that's used, and just Maine in Nebraska is

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<v Speaker 1>called the district system, and this one is like the

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<v Speaker 1>popular vote. The elector follows the popular vote, so that

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<v Speaker 1>one was a little bit more closely aligned. I understand,

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<v Speaker 1>I understand. So I know two thousand wasn't the only election.

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<v Speaker 1>There were three others as far as I understand, right.

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<v Speaker 1>That was John Quincy Adams and eighteen Rutherford B. Hayes

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<v Speaker 1>in eighteen seventy six, and Benjamin Harrison in eighteen eighty eight,

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<v Speaker 1>all of whom were eventually elected by the electoral college

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<v Speaker 1>instead of the popular vote. And you know, it's funny

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<v Speaker 1>because today a lot of those presidents, maybe with the

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<v Speaker 1>exception of Adams, there's sort of not inconsequential because I

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<v Speaker 1>wouldn't say any of our presidents has been inconsequential. Everyone's

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<v Speaker 1>done something to either get people riled up or pacify

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<v Speaker 1>them or please them. But off the top of my head,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I can't name any great success that success

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<v Speaker 1>is associated with those administrations. So I don't know. Who

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<v Speaker 1>knows what would have happened if the popular voted one.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe the tides would have turned in some way for

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<v Speaker 1>our nation. Maybe so maybe so that may have happened

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<v Speaker 1>very recently too, You never know. And I mean what

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<v Speaker 1>happens when there's a majority as well? I mean what

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<v Speaker 1>happens when there's a tie in the electoral College, I

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<v Speaker 1>should say, I mean there has to be a tiebreaker, right, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>well sort of. Then the vote goes to the House

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<v Speaker 1>of Representatives and that is sanctioned by the twelve and

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<v Speaker 1>at the Constitution. And there have been two elections in

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<v Speaker 1>history that have resorted to death and that was when

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<v Speaker 1>Thomas Jefferson and Aaron Burr squared off in eighteen o one,

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<v Speaker 1>victory went to Teach and then in eight when John

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<v Speaker 1>Quincy Adams competed against Andrew Jackson, and it went to

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<v Speaker 1>j Q Adams. So, so what happens in this instance,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, like if if there if the vote goes

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<v Speaker 1>to the House of Representatives to pick the the president,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean what happens that Does each state get it

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<v Speaker 1>one vote basically yes, and then you just keep voting.

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<v Speaker 1>If there's a tie, yes, I got you. Okay, all right,

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<v Speaker 1>So this sounds a lot like um, like delegates at

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<v Speaker 1>a at a party convention sort of. Yeah, And it's

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<v Speaker 1>something I like to think of it in my mind

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<v Speaker 1>as the People's Choice Awards versus the Academy Awards. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>which is more prestigious. I think most of us would

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<v Speaker 1>say the Academy Awards. You know, people get more gussied

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<v Speaker 1>up for the oscars. You know, they're considered a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit more formal. Um, But you know, who would you

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<v Speaker 1>rather be thought more highly of? Your peers? The people

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<v Speaker 1>who actually in your industry are a very well informed,

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<v Speaker 1>very educated body of people who know your trade and

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<v Speaker 1>say you're the best of the best. For this, I

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<v Speaker 1>still say it's the latest and outdated. But thanks for

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<v Speaker 1>clearing it up formula. Well, let our our listeners decide,

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<v Speaker 1>of course. And in case you were wondering how many

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<v Speaker 1>votes it takes to get the majority in the electoral

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<v Speaker 1>cop Okay, how that you go ahead, go ahead, I

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<v Speaker 1>just wanted everyone to know that I knew already. I

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<v Speaker 1>know it's two hundred forty three. That's not right. I

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<v Speaker 1>was just tested. And now everyone, now we have informed listeners.

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<v Speaker 1>Go forth and vote, and remember there's no such thing

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<v Speaker 1>as a wasted vote as their candice no. And you

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<v Speaker 1>can read even more about votes and whether or not

0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.600
<v Speaker 1>they're wasted when you read how the Electoral College works

0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:55.120
<v Speaker 1>on how stuff works dot com for more on this

0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:57.760
<v Speaker 1>and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works

0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.960
<v Speaker 1>dot com. Let us know what you think. Send an

0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:04.760
<v Speaker 1>email to podcast at how stuff works dot com. M