1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple Coarckley and Android 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,119 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App, with the on demand 5 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 2: Turn our attention to Capitol Hill now. In an important 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 2: development here, as we've been discussing the countdown to a 8 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 2: potential shutdown for days and even weeks, I can now 9 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 2: tell you that the cr the continuing Resolution to keep 10 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 2: the government running into November. 11 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 3: Has passed the House of Representatives. 12 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 2: That happened just a short time ago, two seventeen to 13 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 2: twelve the vote. Now it heads to the Senate, where 14 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 2: things could get a little more complicated. And I'm glad 15 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 2: to say we're joined by Congressman Tom Emmer, the majority 16 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 2: whip of the US House of Representatives. Congressman, welcome back 17 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 2: to Bloomberg TV and Radio. It's great to see you. 18 00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 2: Are you in victory lap mode right now? Or are 19 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 2: you worried that this bill is going to crash into 20 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 2: a wall in the Senate. 21 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 4: No, it's coaches used to tell me as a kid, 22 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 4: When you score, you're supposed to look like you've been 23 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 4: there before, and you're going to be there a whole 24 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 4: lot more. Now we're moving on to the next thing, 25 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 4: which is moving the appropriations process forward. That's what this 26 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 4: was all about today. And look, it was a good 27 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:26,919 Speaker 4: day for the country because we passed the government funding 28 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 4: bill and I believe that it's going to pass the Senate. 29 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 5: Well, Congressman, in the scenario that it doesn't pass the Senate, 30 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 5: are you planning to come back to town? 31 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 4: I look, it should pass the Senate. If Chuck Schumer 32 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 4: is serious about these foolish threats, he's felony dumb to 33 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 4: let the government shut down because he's going to own it. 34 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 4: The continued Resolution that was sent over by the House 35 00:01:55,880 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 4: guys is clean, I mean completely clean. It's nothing new, 36 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 4: there's nothing partisan about it. It's just continuing the status quo. 37 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 4: There's no reason to vote against that unless you want 38 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 4: to play political games. And I'll tell you, not only 39 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 4: will this hurt his entire Senate conference, it will hurt 40 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 4: the Democrat Party. And I'll tell you what, it probably 41 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 4: will guarantee that Virginia will have a Republican governor again. 42 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 3: Wow. 43 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 2: Wow, you've connected the dots on a couple of things there. Congressman, 44 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 2: Democrats obviously want to have a debate about extending Obamacare subsidies. 45 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 2: We should remind our viewers and listeners that the plan 46 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,679 Speaker 2: that you just passed, to your point, it continues what's 47 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 2: already in place, was basically Joe Biden's budget, right yeah. 48 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 4: I mean it's the same one that's been continuing since 49 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 4: Trump was inaugurated. 50 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 6: We did the same thing last March. 51 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 4: The difference between last March and now, though, is that 52 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 4: the House Appropriations Committee, which you all know is made 53 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 4: up of both Republicans and Democrats, passed all twelve of 54 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 4: propriations bills, passed several of them off the House floor 55 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 4: right now. We had a formal motion to go to 56 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 4: conference a couple weeks back. I think that's the first 57 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 4: time that there's been a formal conference I procedure done 58 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 4: since maybe twenty fourteen, and Republicans and Democrats in the 59 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 4: House have been in conference with Republicans and Democrats in 60 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 4: the Senate. They're very close on three bills right now, 61 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 4: and their belief is if given more time, they're going 62 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 4: to be able to get the entire twenty six appropriations 63 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 4: package done at some point, so this was a step 64 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 4: forward to getting that done and having the next budget. 65 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 2: Don't dare us to say regular order today, Congressman number 66 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 2: I will say that I'm here on a lot. 67 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 3: Of folks, very a lot of volts. No, I know 68 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 3: that I'm being sarcastic. 69 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 2: It's just not something that we're terribly used at least 70 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 2: getting across the finish line. And I know that's the 71 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 2: goal of yourself and the Speaker as outline at the 72 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 2: beginning of this Congress. But you're actually getting a lot 73 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,119 Speaker 2: of credit for or this tactical move here. I don't 74 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 2: know how much it was in the design to essentially 75 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: jam the Senate. Here's the bill, we're taken off and 76 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: by the time we come back there really won't be 77 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 2: enough time to re litigate anything. So it's kind of 78 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 2: a take it or leave it. Was that the purpose? 79 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 2: Or are you concerned about being accused of jamming the Senate? 80 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, Look, if you want to jam the Senate, then 81 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 4: we would have put a bunch of our priorities in 82 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 4: it and we would have sent those over and gone home. 83 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 6: We didn't do that. 84 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 4: We effectively are leaving things the way they are. It 85 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 4: is a nonpartisan continuing resolution. Fact, the only thing that 86 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 4: was added to it is something that I think everyone 87 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 4: here agrees on, Republican and Democrat, and everyone across the 88 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 4: country should agree on. That is plusing up dollars for 89 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 4: the executive branch security, for the Supreme Court justices security, 90 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 4: and for members of Congress, senators and representatives for our security. 91 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 4: This is a nonpartisan effort. The person that's going to 92 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 4: get blamed, primarily will be Chuck Schumer. And if he's 93 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 4: making a decision to shut the government down to you, 94 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 4: like some speculate, to save his own political hide, well 95 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 4: he'll be destroying any chance of his party making a comeback, 96 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 4: and he's going to cost him a governor's seat. 97 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:21,799 Speaker 6: Again. 98 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 5: Well, collegeman, just walk us through what the next three 99 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 5: months of the year look like. Here are we back 100 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 5: in negotiation mood mode right before Thanksgiving on November. If 101 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 5: this does go through November twenty First, what happens on 102 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 5: November twenty seconds? 103 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 4: Well you can't. There are human beings involved, but I 104 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 4: think so you can't. It's kind of like the weather. 105 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 4: I can make some forecasts for you, but if they 106 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 4: never have to be right. I do have to be right, 107 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 4: So I'm not going to forecast something that I can't 108 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 4: accurately predict. 109 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 6: I can tell you what's going to happen now the. 110 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 4: House appropriators, even though we're not going to be in 111 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 4: session until after the government funding deadline, the House will 112 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 4: be adjourned. They will continue their negotiations on the three 113 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 4: bills and other bills that the House and the Senate 114 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 4: are going to try to try to tie up. And 115 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 4: the goal would be to have as many of those 116 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 4: done by November twenty first, because as the whip, that 117 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 4: will allow me to go to our members when I'm 118 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 4: asking them for their support, to say we're making progress. 119 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 4: This is either all done or it's close to being done. 120 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 4: It's moving in the direction that you wanted to. If 121 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 4: it doesn't for some reason, if Democrats walk away from 122 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 4: this process, which I haven't seen the rank and file 123 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 4: necessary walk necessarily walk away. I've just seen Hakim and 124 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 4: Schumer posturing as if they're walking away. But if that 125 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 4: were to happen again, then we'd have to sit on 126 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 4: with the Speaker and figure out what the next step is. 127 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 4: And there are some ideas, but we're not there. 128 00:06:57,960 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 3: Really interesting. 129 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 2: Lastly, a congressmen, your generosity with your time today. 130 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 3: I know it's a busy one. 131 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 2: Democrats charge to extend the Obamacare subsidies that we were 132 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: just mentioning, and this has been a kind of a 133 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 2: long running conversation now is something that has split the 134 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 2: parties here. I don't know what term you want to use, 135 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 2: but I'm just wondering where you are personally on this. 136 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 2: Not part of this cr but when you get back 137 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 2: to work and your negotiating the next budget for the 138 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 2: new year, is that something that you support. We saw 139 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 2: pulling from Tony Fabrizio's shop that showed the expiration of 140 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 2: these subsidies could do a lot of damage to Republicans' 141 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 2: chances in the midterms. 142 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 3: I'm just wondering where you are in principle on that. 143 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 6: Yeah. 144 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 4: Well, first off, you got to understand the job I have. 145 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 4: You will not get me to take a position because 146 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 4: I've got members who are split on this. 147 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 6: My job is not to tell them this is you 148 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 6: got to agree with me. 149 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 4: My job is to say, all right, where you're at, 150 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 4: what are you able to do? How is this going 151 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 4: to work? So, but what I do know is this 152 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 4: the continuing resolution that was just signed. Our speaker said, 153 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 4: this is about funding. This is a funding bill. We 154 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 4: will be talking about that policy question before the end 155 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 4: of the year, because of course they expire at the 156 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 4: end of the year. 157 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 2: Yes. Sure, it's good to have you back with us. 158 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 2: Congressman Tom Emmer, the Majority Whip. He got the bill passed, 159 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 2: and it's great to have you back on Bloomberg TV 160 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 2: and radio. 161 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 7: Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much 162 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 7: more coming up after this. 163 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 164 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on 165 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: Apple Cockway and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. 166 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 167 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 1: flagship New York station Just Say. 168 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 6: Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 169 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 3: There is more breaking news. 170 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 2: Our conversation with the Republican Whip at the top of 171 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 2: the hour just twenty six minutes ago. 172 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 3: Tom Emmer has not aged very well. 173 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 2: The Republican stopgap funding bill that did pass the House earlier. 174 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 2: It's what we were talking to the Whip about has 175 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 2: failed in the Senate already. A live view of the 176 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 2: Senate floor now knowing that there will be another vote 177 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 2: on a separate stopgap bill crafted by Democrats, which two 178 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 2: is expected to fail. Lawmakers are set to go home 179 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 2: after this creedy, and when they return following next week 180 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:30,959 Speaker 2: it's a holiday week with the Jewish holidays, they will 181 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 2: not be back until two days before a potential shutdown, 182 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 2: and it's looking more likely that that will happen. 183 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 5: And it's interesting, though, if they change their tune, maybe 184 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 5: after this we'll hear more lawmakers say, actually, maybe we 185 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 5: will stay in time, Maybe we will hash it out. 186 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 3: It's possible. We'll see what the panel thinks. 187 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and Genie Shanzino are with 188 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 2: us because, of course, our Republican strategist and partner at 189 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 2: Stone Court Capital. Genie is our democratic analyst and democracy 190 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 2: visiting fellow at Harvard Kennedy School's Ash Center. We spoke 191 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 2: to Tom emmer Rick. He said this was going to 192 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 2: pass the Senate. 193 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 3: We know that the. 194 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 2: Democratic plan doesn't have the votes either, so we're shutting down. 195 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 8: Yeah, it's so welcome to hear Critty even raise the 196 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 8: question as to whether members would have enough to understand down. 197 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 8: Thank you Kritty for not being so stained by our politics. 198 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 8: Look at Sunshine Rick, They're going away. They liked their holidays. 199 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 8: This is one that comes an important time. There's a 200 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 8: lot going on in the country right now, and they 201 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 8: want to go home and talk to their constituents, and 202 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 8: they want to avoid the glare of Washington, especially because 203 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 8: they haven't passed a budget for the government to run on, 204 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 8: and so I highly doubt they'll take the extraordinary measures 205 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 8: to stick around and do their day job. That being said, 206 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 8: I don't think there is going to be a deal 207 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 8: until their backs are up against the wall and maybe 208 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 8: you know, they get back and Democrats are willing to 209 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 8: you know, take a hamburger today for a dollar tomorrow. 210 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 8: I mean like their deal is going to be, you know, 211 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 8: vote for the House passed bill and will consider some 212 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 8: of your changes to the healthcare legislation that are needed, 213 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 8: you know, as part of the appropriations process. 214 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 3: And frankly, Member Emmer. 215 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 8: Kind of indicated that he's got a bunch of Republicans 216 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 8: who don't want to get the blame for cutting off 217 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 8: that Obama subsidy for ACA healthcare. And my guess is 218 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 8: you're going to have a seventy two hour negotiating session. 219 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 8: It could wind up stopping the government from from shutting down. 220 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 2: Well, that's going to be a whirlwind session, Genie. Will 221 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 2: Democrats play along with that scenario? 222 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 3: I don't think they have a choice. 223 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 9: I think what is problematic here has to do with 224 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 9: the fact that you have two sides dug in, and 225 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 9: they are dug in because we have gerry mendered districts, 226 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 9: and we have parties that are increasingly running to their 227 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 9: most extreme sides. And so all of the House members 228 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 9: facing reelection, which is all of them in the midterm, 229 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 9: and the Senators who are they are scared to death 230 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 9: of a primary from their left and their right, and 231 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 9: so they are doing the bidding of the most extreme 232 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 9: elements of their parties and not of the American people. 233 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 9: And you know, in what universe when there is a 234 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 9: crisis at your work, do you say, oh, goodbye, I'm 235 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 9: going to go on vacation. But that's exactly what they're doing. 236 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 9: And that's not to say they're not going to be 237 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 9: working in their districts, but they're not going to be 238 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 9: doing the business of the American people. So this is 239 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 9: truly when it comes to the Congress, and has been 240 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 9: for a long time, a very very broken system. We 241 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 9: don't ask a lot of Congress these days. It's a 242 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 9: bare minimum through regular order, you consider and pass a 243 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 9: budget to keep the government operating, and they haven't been 244 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 9: able to do that. 245 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 3: For a very long time. 246 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,959 Speaker 9: So I think it's pocks on both parties and the 247 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 9: entire House and Senate for the way this is turning out. 248 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 9: But it's just an old, old story in DC today. 249 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,559 Speaker 5: Well, Rick, let's bring it right back to those healthcare subsidies. 250 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 5: If they are not extended, Do Republicans face the consequences 251 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 5: at the midterms. 252 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, it could be a backlash, right. 253 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 8: I think that nothing impacts people like their pocketbook. Seventy 254 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 8: five percent increase in your health insurance costs are pretty extreme. 255 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 8: I mean, there is a debate that should take place 256 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 8: as to whether the federal government should be subsidizing some 257 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,319 Speaker 8: individuals and not others for their health care. I mean, 258 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 8: and we went through that debate at the time ACA 259 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 8: was passed under Obama and it was a party line vote, right, 260 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 8: And so this has been a polarized issue for a 261 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:16,839 Speaker 8: long time. And yes, Republicans could take the heat for that. 262 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 8: When people start looking at the costs of health care, 263 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 8: they'll be able to point to a Republican bill. That 264 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 8: being said, it's not a done deal. I thought that 265 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 8: Congressman Emmer's point that we're going to have to come 266 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 8: to groups with that before we finalize this budget that 267 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 8: goes into effect. You know, once it's passed, those those 268 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 8: subsidies don't run out until till January, and so they 269 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:48,119 Speaker 8: do have time to put a patch in to policy legislation, 270 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 8: not a continuing resolution. 271 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 2: We haven't talked about recisions for a while, Genie. Do 272 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 2: Democrats need a guarantee there will not be another package 273 00:14:58,840 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 2: of recisions? 274 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 9: They do, and that's something they should request during the 275 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 9: appropriations process, and more than request, they should fight for 276 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 9: healthcare subsidies and to ensure that when they support a 277 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 9: bill that it is not going to be clawed back. 278 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 9: And it's certainly something they're asking for. The problem is 279 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 9: is that it's very very difficult to do that in 280 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 9: a CR context. You've got to do that in the 281 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 9: appropriations context. But this is exactly the playbook that russ 282 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 9: Vote on behalf of Donald Trump has been using. Russ 283 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 9: Vote has talked about this very moment, going back to 284 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 9: at least twenty eleven. He is well prepared for what 285 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 9: is coming ahead, and he and the President would like 286 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 9: nothing more than to blame the Democrats for shutting down 287 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 9: this government and to use that to distract people from 288 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 9: the reality that under this Republican controlled Washington, healthcare is 289 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 9: going up, the economy is going down, employment is going up. 290 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 9: These tariff wars have not turned out the way the 291 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 9: President planned. A whole host of misses on the part 292 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 9: of the President economically, cost of living, and otherwise. They 293 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 9: don't want to take responsibility for it, so they will 294 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 9: try to point to the Democrats, and Democrats have to 295 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 9: be very careful not to fall into that trap, and 296 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 9: I fear they're falling into it, because again they're being 297 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 9: pushed from a very angry and rightfully so base about 298 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 9: everything else the President continues to do in so many 299 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 9: other contexts. 300 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 4: Well. 301 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 5: Jeanie, how did Democrats feel about the security budget, the 302 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 5: security measures that are likely to get tacked onto any 303 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 5: future negotiations. Is this a foreg on conclusion that this 304 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 5: is going to be a part of the next agreement. 305 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 9: I do think most Democrats, like most Republicans, are supported. 306 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 9: They too, are very concerned about the safety of themselves, 307 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 9: their colleagues, their families and in this environment rightly so, 308 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 9: so I do think that's something they support, but I 309 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 9: think they have got to be very clear on what 310 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 9: their demands are. And you know that clarity should have 311 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 9: started several several months, if not weeks ago. To their 312 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 9: own constituents and the American public. The concern is without leadership, 313 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,239 Speaker 9: real leadership at the top of the Democratic Party, a 314 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 9: lot of this is very confusing to voters who will 315 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 9: probably end up blaming everyone in Washington, DC. 316 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 2: Oh, we do with the blame game. Pretty That's one 317 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 2: thing we do know how to do in Washington. Genie, 318 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 2: thank you, Rick as well, Jeanie Shanzano and Rick Davis 319 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 2: will join us on the late edition of Balance of Power, 320 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 2: our great panel Bloomberg Politics contributors here in Washington. I'm 321 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 2: Joe Matthew alongside Credie Gupto. We've got breaking news coming 322 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 2: out of Estonia. Another Article four is triggered thanks to Russia. 323 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 2: We'll have a story next only on Bloomberg. Stay with 324 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 2: us on Balance of Power. We'll have much more coming 325 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 2: up after this. 326 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Blue Tame work Balance of Power Podcast. 327 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 1: Catch us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern 328 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: on Almalcarchlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. 329 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch 330 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: us live on YouTube. 331 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 2: Live in Washington, talking politics and connecting the dots here 332 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 2: between Washington and Wall Street. With an important development if 333 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,479 Speaker 2: you're just joining us, the Stopgap Continuing Resolution, the CR 334 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 2: as they call it, that Republicans wrote to keep the 335 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 2: government from closing at the end of the month past 336 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 2: the House of Representatives. However, it has failed in the Senate, 337 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 2: and a second version authored by Democrats is also expected 338 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 2: to fail. 339 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:40,400 Speaker 3: So, as we. 340 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 2: Heard from Tom Emmer, the Majority Whip, at the top 341 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 2: of this hour, Republicans and Democrats are not agreeing on 342 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 2: the extension of Obamacare subsidies, and as our political panel 343 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 2: told us, we may well be shutting down on the 344 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 2: first of October. We'll have more for you on that 345 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 2: as we turned out of geopolitics, and a very important 346 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 2: development here. Following the President's discussion with reporters on his 347 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 2: trip to the UK about the war in Ukraine, he 348 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 2: was asked about his relationship with Vladimir Putin and the 349 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 2: prospect of secondary sanctions. 350 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 3: Here's what he said. 351 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 10: He's let me down. He's really let me down, orre's 352 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 10: a different thing. Things happen that are very opposite of 353 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 10: what you thought. You thought you were going to have 354 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 10: an easy time or a hard time, and it turns 355 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 10: out to be the reverse. 356 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 2: It seems Vladimir Putin has let President Trump down again 357 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 2: with news today that Russian fighter jets miggs actually entered 358 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 2: the airspace of Estonia and just now on x the 359 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 2: Prime Minister of Estonia riding this morning, three Mussian Russian 360 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 2: MiG thirty one fighter jets entered Estonian airspace. NATO fighters 361 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 2: responded and the Russian planes were forced to flee. Such 362 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 2: violation is totally unacceptable. The government of Estonia has decided 363 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 2: to request NATO Article four consultations in creeding. This is 364 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:00,959 Speaker 2: the second time this has had happened in the space 365 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 2: of a week. Poland did the very same thing after 366 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 2: Russian drones entered Polish airspace. 367 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 5: Absolutely mentioned this was right on the board of Romania 368 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 5: as well, so an additional incursion on that front. But 369 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 5: the second country, to your point, that has invoked Article 370 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 5: four in terms of military consultations, I wonder how close 371 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 5: we are to Article five. 372 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 2: Well, that's the fear right now on exactly what response 373 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 2: the US will have, which is why we're glad to 374 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,120 Speaker 2: be joined by Laura Cooper, the former US Deputy Assistant 375 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 2: Secretary of Defense for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia. Laura, it's 376 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 2: wonderful to have you with us here on Bloomberg TV 377 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 2: and radio. We have two Article four incursions being triggered 378 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 2: here in countries that are very concerned about Vladimir Putin's 379 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 2: next move. 380 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 3: What will this lead to? 381 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 11: Well, absolutely, this is a big source of concern for 382 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 11: all NATO countries at this point. I think that when 383 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 11: you first saw the drones flying into Polish airspace, there 384 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 11: were many who initially thought, well, perhaps this was a mistake. 385 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 11: Perhaps you know, these drones went off course. I think 386 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 11: at this point we all have to treat these drone 387 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 11: incursions and now these fighter incursions as putin testing NATO. 388 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 2: Well, there's a difference between drones and fighters, right, there 389 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,120 Speaker 2: were pilots in those planes that could have turned into 390 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 2: a conflict. 391 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 11: Absolutely, and certainly our NATO pilots are trained to operate 392 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 11: in a safe and professional way and to intercept incoming 393 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 11: fighter jets, and thankfully that's exactly what they did. But 394 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 11: now is the time to shift from this focus on 395 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 11: the specific military operation and think about what is the 396 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 11: larger political response, because this testing that Putin is doing, 397 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 11: he is testing to see if NATO will stand unified. 398 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 11: He is testing not just Estonia and Poland, He's testing 399 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 11: the United States of America, waiting to hear from US 400 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 11: leaders that this is unacceptable and that we will push back. 401 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 11: When we saw the drones going into Polish airspace, we 402 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 11: did not see even a forceful rhetorical response. Now, certainly 403 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 11: our military, working with Allied militaries, have planned for more 404 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 11: robust defenses in Eastern Europe. They are executing that mission 405 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 11: as we speak. But what Putin is looking for is 406 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 11: a sign of true division politically within NATO, and he 407 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 11: is looking to see whether the US will show support. 408 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 5: What does that response actually look like? If you were 409 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 5: in the White House right now, what would you say. 410 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 5: The appropriate response is, well, again, the first response is 411 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 5: to be forceful in your speech. Silence does not signal 412 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 5: that we are supporting Europe. So there needs to be 413 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 5: an actual, you know, verbal response, and you know, ideally 414 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 5: something beyond a quick tweet, actually a statement of concern 415 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 5: and support. Then you shift into the more tangible responses. 416 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 5: And I already talked about how in NATO military channels, 417 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 5: our militaries are doing exactly what they need to do. 418 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 5: They are working together to shore up defenses in the East, 419 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 5: and that's that's what needs to happen. But in in Ukraine, 420 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 5: what you see is a structure right now of European 421 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 5: support for the Ukrainians that appears to not include the 422 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 5: United States of America, and that is what Putin is seeing. 423 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 3: Should those Russian megs have been shot down. 424 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 11: Well, I certainly wouldn't wouldn't make a military recommendation. I 425 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 11: have great confidence in. 426 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 3: An article would it would? 427 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 2: Would the nation need to be attacked by those jets 428 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 2: to bring us to the next life. 429 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 11: Article five specifically refers to an attack, whereas this Article 430 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 11: four they're assessing the situation and they're needing to consult 431 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 11: on further measures and. 432 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 3: Lead to something rare. 433 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 11: Four could lead to five. The idea is that you 434 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:17,160 Speaker 11: know NATO nation would invoke Article five if they actually 435 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 11: felt they were under attack, and that is not the 436 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 11: assessment at this time. Again, I would characterize this as 437 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 11: testing NATO countries, and again the United States is being tested. 438 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 5: Let's talk a little bit about the thought that's been 439 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,879 Speaker 5: put out there that the potential way to getting to 440 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 5: a ceasefire end of a conflict rests in territory swaps. 441 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 5: Whether it's seeding some of the land that Russia is 442 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 5: already taken over, or Ukraine potentially getting Russian land and 443 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,719 Speaker 5: holding on to it, is that a realistic prospect either one. 444 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 11: So I think it's important to reject that proposal, which 445 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 11: is wholly a proposal that Vladimir Putin agrees with. The 446 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,919 Speaker 11: Russians are looking to achieve through some kind of magical 447 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 11: silver platter offer of territory what it could not achieve 448 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 11: through military operations on the battlefield. We have to remember 449 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 11: that even though the Ukrainians have suffered tremendously, what we 450 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 11: are seeing is an incredibly slow Russian advance. I mean, 451 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,439 Speaker 11: if Russia kept advancing at the same rate that they 452 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 11: are doing now, it would take years for them to 453 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 11: conquer all of dnbas donbas is precisely the area that 454 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 11: Russia wants Ukraine to give up. And the word swap 455 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 11: is a complete misnomer because this isn't an exchange. This 456 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 11: is Ukraine being forced to give up sovereign. 457 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 3: Territory another annexation. 458 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 2: Exactly, give us a status update on what's happening right 459 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 2: now with weapons being provided to Ukraine, because the President 460 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 2: has a different approach than Joe Biden is allowing NATO 461 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 2: members to essentially buy American equipment and provide it to Ukraine, 462 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 2: so we're not incurring the cost. We know there was 463 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 2: an initial purchase by the Netherlands and we've seen some 464 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 2: other action, but is this. 465 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,639 Speaker 3: Working as planned as Ukraine getting what it needs? 466 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 11: So, first of all, I think it's important to not 467 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,880 Speaker 11: use the term allowing Europe to purchase US weapons because 468 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 11: for decades now Europeans have been purchasing US equipment, US 469 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,360 Speaker 11: weapons and it's not a grand gesture on the part 470 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 11: of the unit. 471 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 2: And I'm not trying to make a stand by using 472 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 2: that term. But of course we were providing that weaponry 473 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 2: until Donald Trump. 474 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,120 Speaker 11: Absolutely, So what you see right now is Europe has 475 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 11: actually stepped up and they are basically shouldering not just 476 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 11: the US share the previous US share of weapons, they're 477 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 11: also continuing to should shoulder a burden on their own 478 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 11: and so if you look at their new process, it's 479 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 11: this prioritized Ukraine Requirements List process. It's kind of a 480 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 11: cumbersome name that is managed out of NATO headquarters. This 481 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 11: is a process where the Europeans and other countries around 482 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 11: the world for that matter, can purchase what the NATO 483 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 11: staff and what the Ukrainians deem are their most important requirements. 484 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 11: But this is all the stuff that the US used 485 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 11: to provide. It's you know, the munitions for high mars, 486 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 11: these you know, longer range launch systems, it's you know, 487 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 11: interceptors for Patriot systems for air defense. So these these items, 488 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 11: these munitions in particular, are now being funded by the Europeans. 489 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,880 Speaker 11: They're helping US defense industry maintain open production lines, which 490 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 11: is extremely helpful for not just US industry, but also 491 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 11: for US readiness, so that if we need to purchase 492 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,199 Speaker 11: the same things, the factories are up and running and 493 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 11: we can just go right in and be able to purchase. 494 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 11: So this is a huge boond to the US and 495 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 11: it's certainly helpful for the Ukrainians. But you have to 496 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 11: wonder how long can Europe do both do both its 497 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 11: share and the US share. Before twenty twenty five. You know, 498 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 11: at the point of January twenty twenty five, the Europeans 499 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 11: and the US had provided about the same amount over 500 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,159 Speaker 11: sixty billion dollars in security assistance, so it was equivalent 501 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 11: if you want the equivalent volumes in order to pressure 502 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 11: the Russians to go to the negotiating table to agree 503 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 11: to a cease fire. That means that the Europeans may 504 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 11: be actually spending double what they were. This could be 505 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 11: very challenging for their budgets. And you also have to 506 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 11: look at the fact that they're paying for their own defense. 507 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 11: They've all agreed to increase their defense spending for their 508 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 11: own defense as well. NATO now has a five percent 509 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 11: of GDP target of spending, and so you know, these 510 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 11: these defense expenditures are going to be really considerable for 511 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 11: the NATO countries and they'll have longer term implications for 512 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 11: European defense industry and for US defense industry. 513 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 5: Well, Laura, it's famously known that Europe has been underfunded 514 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 5: in its military for a very long time, which is 515 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 5: why you're seeing the squeeze here. But they've also the 516 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 5: NATO contributions even under the previous target, they've missed them significantly. 517 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 5: I think the exception being Poland at the end of 518 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 5: the day. So in terms of actual NATO security guarantees 519 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 5: that can be offered to Ukraine, can Europe even do that? 520 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 5: And how far away are we to a viable security 521 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 5: guarantee that comes from the European continent. 522 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 11: So I think first of all, it's important to not 523 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 11: rule out that the US should be a part of 524 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 11: whatever the security and I would say security assurances for 525 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 11: Ukraine as opposed to security guarantee because I think that 526 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 11: right now Putin is only looking at one country as 527 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 11: the signal of whether he's going to get away with 528 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 11: taking over Ukraine and moving beyond, and that's the United States. 529 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 11: So I wouldn't I wouldn't say just European. That said, 530 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 11: what the Europeans are doing right now is really impressive 531 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 11: in trying to stand up a mechanism that would offer 532 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 11: support to Ukraine. It is not an Article five guarantee. 533 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 11: I don't think that there are many countries in Europe 534 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,959 Speaker 11: or around the world that actually would consider, you know, 535 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 11: fighting directly with Russia in response to future Russian aggression. 536 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 11: But what the Europeans are trying to do is have 537 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 11: an architecture that bolsters Ukraine and its ability to withstand aggression. 538 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 11: It's really important to recognize that what they're talking about 539 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 11: is for after a ceasefire. So we can't ignore the 540 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 11: fact that business right now should focus on the ceasefire. 541 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 6: You can't ever get to security. 542 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 11: Assurances if you don't actually stop the fighting in the 543 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 11: first place. And of course this is what President Trump 544 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 11: was focused in the past. So the Europeans will look 545 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 11: to a potential multinational force again to help bolster Ukraine 546 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 11: in the wake of a ceasefire, and that force would 547 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 11: be multi dimensional and has a lot of aspects that 548 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 11: still need to be worked out. 549 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 3: Wow, come see us again. 550 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,959 Speaker 2: It's a fascinating conversation and we'd love to tap your 551 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 2: experience more as we learn whatever the next steps are 552 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 2: going to be in this long running story. Laura Cooper's 553 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 2: former US Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Russia, Ukraine, 554 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 2: and Eurasia with us in studio here in Washington. 555 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 7: Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much 556 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 7: more coming up after this. 557 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 558 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on 559 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: Apple Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. 560 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 561 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: flagship New York station. 562 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 3: Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven. 563 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 2: Thirty track the Friday Trade. 564 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I said it. 565 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 2: It is at last Friday, and I did have to 566 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 2: check twice today. It's been a long week after another 567 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 2: long week with the reemergence of political violence in this country, 568 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 2: the killing of Charlie Kirk that has spawned the political 569 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 2: blame game here in Washington and around the nation, forced 570 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 2: a major television personality off the air, and has left 571 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 2: a country asking some big questions, some hard questions about 572 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 2: free speech, about the Constitution, and the role of government 573 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 2: in our lives. With a White House now testing the 574 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 2: limits of its authority and trying to shape government into 575 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 2: President Trump's own image, It's a time that calls for 576 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 2: some context, and I have an important voice to introduce 577 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 2: you to. It's a conversation that we've been looking forward 578 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 2: to and that you will only hear on balance of 579 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 2: power here on Bloomberg. Hassan Kwami Jeffreys College of Arts 580 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 2: and Sciences Alumni, Associate Professor of History at Ohio State 581 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 2: university is with us right now, and Professor I want 582 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 2: to welcome you to Bloomberg. 583 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 3: It's great to have you with us here. 584 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 2: I don't know how you would describe this period of 585 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 2: time that we are in, but I'm sure it's something 586 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 2: that is spawning a lot of conversation on your campus. 587 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 2: And I wonder how your students are feeling about this, 588 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 2: what kind of questions you're hearing. 589 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 12: Well for us, it's great to be with you and 590 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 12: on this important topic and during this during this tumultuous time. 591 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 12: And that's how I would, in fact describe it as 592 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 12: being a tumultuous time. And and and the students at 593 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 12: Ohio State brilliant students, very thoughtful students. There's a degree 594 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 12: of fear, there's a degree of concern, there's a degree 595 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 12: of confusion because they're being hit with a lot of 596 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 12: mixed mixed signals. Uh, do you want us to have 597 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 12: uh to sort of speak our mind and learn and 598 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 12: be curious, or do you want us to sit down 599 00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 12: and be quiet? And in the absence of really hard 600 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 12: conversations about America's difficult parts of its history, then the 601 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 12: things that we see today just seem out of context. 602 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 12: Seem to be coming out of nowhere. I'll just say quickly, 603 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 12: America has a long history of political violence, and so 604 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 12: what we see today is less an aberration than a 605 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 12: historical continuation, despite how we may want to interpret it. 606 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 2: Well, you've been studying and writing about civil rights for 607 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:37,319 Speaker 2: many years, and there have been some remarkable developments over 608 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 2: the past couple of months. We saw one emerge this 609 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,320 Speaker 2: week in a story in the Washington Post about the 610 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 2: Trump administration ordering national parks to remove certain slavery references. 611 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,839 Speaker 2: And we should note here that the national parks are home, 612 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,479 Speaker 2: in fact, to many former slave plantations, not to mention 613 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 2: Civil War battlefields. 614 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 3: In one case, a depiction of a slave. 615 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 2: The Washington Post reports the administration one of the scars 616 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 2: removes from his back. Can you speak to why these 617 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 2: depictions exist to begin with and what it would mean 618 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 2: to remove them. 619 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 12: The depictions exist because they accurately reflect America's history. The 620 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 12: depictions exist because they are snapshots of history that actually happened, 621 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 12: and it is important that we focus and study and 622 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 12: share with the public and don't bury and try to 623 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 12: hide the scars that aren't just on the backs of 624 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 12: individuals who were held in bondage. But the scars that 625 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 12: we all bear as Americans, because this is our history too. 626 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 12: Nobody today is responsible for slavery in America. So this 627 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,360 Speaker 12: isn't about, you know, shame or blame, but this is 628 00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 12: about understanding, because what drove that institution so that it 629 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,799 Speaker 12: could exist for two hundred and fifty years just wasn't 630 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 12: a handful of unfortunate or bad individuals or misguided individuals. 631 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 3: It was the nation as a whole. 632 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 12: Said, this is going to be the basis of our economy, 633 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 12: and so we have to understand that and understand the 634 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,920 Speaker 12: implications and legacy of that today. And when you erase 635 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 12: that history, try to remove those pictures and sanitize that 636 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 12: aspect of America's past, you not only fail to understand 637 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 12: the past, but you also fail to understand the president. 638 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 2: So rationalize this now with me, Professor. The attempt to 639 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 2: change the names of some military bases back to their 640 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 2: original Confederate names. In some cases, you'd find a name 641 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 2: that this administration has found, a name that matches, but 642 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 2: it's an actual different person in the case of Fort 643 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 2: Bragg or some of these others. Pete hag Seth, the 644 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 2: Secretary of war as the President calls him. And President 645 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 2: Trump both want the old Confederate names to be restored. 646 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 2: How does that coincide with the removal of the images 647 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,720 Speaker 2: that were describing Well, I'm glad you see the connection, 648 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 2: because there is a connection. And first I would point 649 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,320 Speaker 2: out that a lot of the names that were removed 650 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 2: the former Confederate generals didn't exist in perpetuity. I mean 651 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,319 Speaker 2: they were These were bases and forts and the like 652 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 2: that were renamed in advance of World War One, during 653 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 2: the height of Jim Crow and the resurgence of white 654 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 2: supremacy in America to get Southern democrats at the time 655 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,879 Speaker 2: to get on board with America going into World War One. 656 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 2: And so you know, when we say, you know, the 657 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 2: time had passed, the time has passed to have names 658 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 2: that reflect the beautiful mosaic that we are in America 659 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 2: and to remove the names of those who were traitors 660 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 2: to the nation. It isn't you are on a racing history. 661 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 2: You are, in fact, you know, making history more reflective 662 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 2: or the present more reflective of America's values in the present, 663 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 2: which is critically important to link the two more clearly. 664 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,359 Speaker 12: You know, one of the things that we do is 665 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,919 Speaker 12: we have done in America rather than confront the most 666 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,320 Speaker 12: difficult aspect of aspects of our past, is to create 667 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,240 Speaker 12: false narratives about the past. And the biggest false narrative 668 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,720 Speaker 12: that we have created is that of the Lost Cause 669 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 12: and celebrating lionizing the Confederacy, to downplay the horror of 670 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 12: slavery and to shine a light on those who engaged 671 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 12: in rebellion against the nation is the Lost Cause narrative, 672 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 12: and we're revisiting that by trying to rename these forts 673 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 12: and bases and. 674 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:44,319 Speaker 2: Return the controversial Reconciliation Monument sculpture to Arlington National Cemetery, 675 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 2: the plan by Pete Hegseth, in this case honoring the Confederacy. 676 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:53,319 Speaker 2: Here in the nation's capital, they unveiled plans to rebuild 677 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:58,319 Speaker 2: statue commemorating Albert Pike, a Confederate brigadier general, just a 678 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 2: few blocks away from the US capital as well. 679 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 3: What we heard when. 680 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,240 Speaker 2: We asked about this from the Pentagon was the United 681 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 2: States and the Department of Defense is not interested in 682 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 2: erasing our history, acknowledging it, and honoring it, which also 683 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 2: would run counter to the removal of certain pieces of 684 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 2: history wouldn't. 685 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:27,799 Speaker 12: It removing statues, updating names so that they reflect the 686 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,759 Speaker 12: values of the society in which we live, the principles, 687 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 12: the goals, the objectives. You know, it's not a racing history. 688 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 12: You know, you can remove Confederate monuments. The Confederacy still lost. 689 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 12: Robberie Lee was still a trader, and so that's a 690 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 12: talking point. What you are doing, in fact is and 691 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 12: I think every community, over time, every nation over time, 692 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,399 Speaker 12: should pause and reflect and think about what occupies our 693 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 12: public space and does and do these monuments and memorials 694 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,240 Speaker 12: reflect who we ought to be and who we aspire 695 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,880 Speaker 12: to be. And I would humbly submit that uplifting the 696 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 12: Confederacy and Confederate generals, those who took up arms against 697 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:11,880 Speaker 12: the United States, do not reflect the best aspects of 698 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:13,840 Speaker 12: America's past or America's president. 699 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 2: You may have seen the White House peace vigil, which 700 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 2: was standing there kind of a tent with some signs 701 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,960 Speaker 2: around it in a twenty four hour stand by some 702 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,760 Speaker 2: anti nuclear peace activist. Essentially, it's been there for forty 703 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,880 Speaker 2: four years, Professor widely considered the longest continuous act of 704 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 2: political protest in American history, has been dismantled. They park 705 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 2: police went outside toward the whole thing down last night 706 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,279 Speaker 2: after a reporter mentioned this to the President in the 707 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:48,759 Speaker 2: Oval office. Another symbol that has left us here in 708 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 2: the nation's capital. And I know you're no stranger to Washington, Professor. 709 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 2: Our viewers and listeners should know that you are the 710 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:59,919 Speaker 2: brother of House Democratic Leader Hakim Jeffreys. We've seen quite 711 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 2: quite an interesting couple of weeks ago by here with 712 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,960 Speaker 2: the federalization of our local police National Guard troops here 713 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 2: on the streets. Can I ask you, with the course 714 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,439 Speaker 2: of study that you follow on the conversation that we're 715 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 2: having right now, are you concerned that your university will 716 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,800 Speaker 2: run into political trouble as you teach the history of 717 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 2: civil rights. 718 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:33,600 Speaker 12: I'm more concerned that my university, Ohio State University, home 719 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,879 Speaker 12: of the defending national FOOTBA champions, I should say, will 720 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,839 Speaker 12: not necessarily run into political trouble because what they've done 721 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:45,440 Speaker 12: is they've actually already been the knee. They've shuddered diversity, 722 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:50,239 Speaker 12: equity inclusion programs right now, just announced the ACLU of 723 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,440 Speaker 12: Ohio has filed a lawsuit on behalf of a student 724 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:59,360 Speaker 12: who was expelled for nonviolent, non threatening posts about the 725 00:41:59,400 --> 00:41:59,959 Speaker 12: war and God. 726 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:00,799 Speaker 5: Uh. 727 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:02,600 Speaker 3: And so I'm less worried. 728 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,560 Speaker 12: I mean, Ohio State has demonstrated that they are aligning 729 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,920 Speaker 12: with the Trump administration on many of these issues. So 730 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 12: I'm less worried about them, you know, succumbing to political backlash, 731 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,799 Speaker 12: and more worried about them clamping down on not just 732 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,799 Speaker 12: free speech and then you mentioned the memorial of the protests, 733 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,040 Speaker 12: the peace protests there, but clamping down on the right 734 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:32,720 Speaker 12: to dissent and and on campus, particularly among students. 735 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:33,359 Speaker 5: Uh. 736 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 12: And it's not and it's pressure that they're feeling, and 737 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 12: they're going along with it, not only from the Trump 738 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 12: administration but also from the Ohio State legislature. And so 739 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 12: many of these now as we would call them red states, 740 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 12: are facing this sort of duel threat when it comes 741 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,399 Speaker 12: to free speech and the right to dissent, not only 742 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,400 Speaker 12: from the federal government but also from state government. So 743 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:57,160 Speaker 12: I'm deeply concerned, uh, and worried that we're we're continuing 744 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,480 Speaker 12: to make it more difficult and not create space for 745 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,320 Speaker 12: that kind for students to raise their voice and dissent 746 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 12: not only about what's going on campus, but also what's 747 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,240 Speaker 12: going on in their nation and in their world. 748 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate the conversation, Professor, and I hope you 749 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:15,200 Speaker 2: come back and see us sometime on Bloomberg because this 750 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 2: is something that's going to take time and probably more 751 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 2: than one talk the San Kwame Jeffreys College of Arts 752 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,200 Speaker 2: and Science as Alumni Associate Professor of History at Ohio 753 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,840 Speaker 2: State University's Greats of Machester, come back and talk to 754 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:27,360 Speaker 2: us again. 755 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 7: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. 756 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,680 Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, 757 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,359 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find 758 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern 759 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:41,440 Speaker 2: at Bloomberg dot com