WEBVTT - Who Are The Winklevoss Twins Behind Gemini?

0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:06.120
<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg Ihad podcast, and

0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:09.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg News.

0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:30.520
<v Speaker 1>It's Monday, February. If you've heard the name Winklevoss, it's

0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:33.800
<v Speaker 1>likely that you've watched the movie The Social Network. That

0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:37.159
<v Speaker 1>film featured a memorable depiction of the Harvard Twins and

0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:41.800
<v Speaker 1>Olympic rowers who sued Mark Zuckerberg for allegedly stealing their

0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:45.280
<v Speaker 1>idea for a social network. Or you might know that

0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:48.479
<v Speaker 1>Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss set up a crypto exchange called Gemini,

0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:51.400
<v Speaker 1>which is currently involved in a very ugly and very

0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:55.760
<v Speaker 1>public dispute with the folks over a Genesis. Both Genesis

0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:59.800
<v Speaker 1>and Gemini we know so many gennames are facing serious

0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:03.840
<v Speaker 1>allegations from US regulators about their products and services. Or

0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:07.600
<v Speaker 1>perhaps you're familiar with their cover band, Mars Junction, Tyler's

0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:11.800
<v Speaker 1>the lead singer, Cameron jams on guitar. The twins certainly

0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:15.720
<v Speaker 1>lead a very interesting life, one enabled by their billions

0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:18.600
<v Speaker 1>of dollars. That wealth comes in part from their early

0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:22.120
<v Speaker 1>adoption of digital assets like bitcoin. When they settled out

0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.840
<v Speaker 1>of court with Mark Zuckerberg all those years ago for

0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:28.119
<v Speaker 1>around sixty five million dollars. They put some of those

0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:31.880
<v Speaker 1>assets into crypto. Here to break down what's up with

0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:34.760
<v Speaker 1>the Winklevoss twins and their presence and digital assets is

0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:44.000
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg reporta Olga karif Olga, welcome back to the show.

0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:47.720
<v Speaker 1>Great to be back. Thank you. Let's talk about some twins,

0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.040
<v Speaker 1>specifically the winkle Voss twins or as many of us

0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:55.480
<v Speaker 1>like to call them, the winkle v What's going on

0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:58.400
<v Speaker 1>with them? Why are we talking about them today? So

0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:01.160
<v Speaker 1>we are talking about them to day because there are

0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:04.800
<v Speaker 1>about three hundred forty thousand people who are very unhappy

0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:10.160
<v Speaker 1>with them. So these are people who used the Brothers

0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:14.800
<v Speaker 1>Gemini Exchange for their crypto and then they decided to

0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:21.400
<v Speaker 1>also use the so called earned program that Gemini offered. Basically,

0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.120
<v Speaker 1>the way this program worked was, you know, if you

0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:27.200
<v Speaker 1>have crypto and you want to earn yield on it,

0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:30.960
<v Speaker 1>you put it into Earn and your crypto has been

0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:36.280
<v Speaker 1>being lent out through Genesis, which is a partner of Gemini,

0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:40.800
<v Speaker 1>and you can earn up to you know, around eight

0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:44.800
<v Speaker 1>percent yield, which is high, which is like what was

0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:48.399
<v Speaker 1>attractive about this product? Yeah, way higher than you could

0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:52.639
<v Speaker 1>earn at a bank, except of course the bank your

0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:57.760
<v Speaker 1>deposits are ensured. And as all of the Gemini Earned

0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:01.520
<v Speaker 1>customers know. Now you know all this, you're whatever you

0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:05.040
<v Speaker 1>put into earn is not ensured um And of course

0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.680
<v Speaker 1>Gemini has said this upfront, but many people don't read

0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:13.360
<v Speaker 1>terms of service. Well, okay, so Gemini was offering this

0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:16.680
<v Speaker 1>interesting product it was it was providing you know, yields

0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:21.600
<v Speaker 1>or returns that were unavailable to other folks. How did

0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:23.600
<v Speaker 1>they get into trouble though? How did they end up

0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:26.880
<v Speaker 1>with having hundreds of thousands of people being mad at them?

0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:32.160
<v Speaker 1>So the trouble really started with um Genesis their partner.

0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:37.280
<v Speaker 1>So over the summer, Genesis basically couldn't collect alone. It

0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:42.240
<v Speaker 1>gave to another crypto firm that went under called Three Arrows.

0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:46.720
<v Speaker 1>It was a hedge fund, and you know, essentially genesis

0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:52.080
<v Speaker 1>Is financial trouble started right there. And in November, Genesis

0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:56.920
<v Speaker 1>halted withdrawals and that meant that if you're in their

0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:02.000
<v Speaker 1>earned program, you cannot withdraw your money. And essentially the

0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:06.160
<v Speaker 1>Winkless Brothers have been working with Genesis on some sort

0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:09.200
<v Speaker 1>of a resolution. Now, remember the Winkle Boss brothers have

0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:13.240
<v Speaker 1>been waging a public fight against Genesis, even calling for

0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:15.920
<v Speaker 1>Barry Silber, the founder of the digital currency group Empire,

0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:19.119
<v Speaker 1>to step down as it's CEO. As Genesis is lending.

0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:22.159
<v Speaker 1>So we've got this situation, and we've talked about on

0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:26.160
<v Speaker 1>the show a couple of times, where even if one

0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:30.159
<v Speaker 1>entity is quote unquote fine, the real risk for a

0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:34.159
<v Speaker 1>lot of consumers is what's called a counter party, right,

0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:37.880
<v Speaker 1>It's like who that entity is also doing business with

0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:41.200
<v Speaker 1>and what kinds of stresses and risks they're exposed to.

0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:44.680
<v Speaker 1>A lot of Gemini's arguments, including in the UK, were

0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:48.320
<v Speaker 1>that they were better than other folks at you know,

0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:51.440
<v Speaker 1>managing their risk, at making sure that even if they

0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:56.560
<v Speaker 1>had those exposures, they were at relatively shall we say,

0:04:56.600 --> 0:05:01.280
<v Speaker 1>not stressful levels. As Genesis is lending business bankruptcy, Gemini

0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:05.120
<v Speaker 1>has been listed as its largest outside creditor with the

0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:08.680
<v Speaker 1>most money owed by a landslide. What went wrong And

0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:12.080
<v Speaker 1>it's a great point that people thought about Gemini differently

0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:16.240
<v Speaker 1>than about a lot of other companies. So Ever since

0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:20.400
<v Speaker 1>the brothers started the exchange in fourteen, they've been all about,

0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:24.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, following regulation and being super conservative, you know,

0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:30.200
<v Speaker 1>most other exchanges would list tons of you know, tokens.

0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:34.599
<v Speaker 1>Uh in this exchange wouldn't list a ton, just because

0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:37.960
<v Speaker 1>they wanted to be super conservative and super compliant, and

0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:41.840
<v Speaker 1>so people kind of thought about them in this way

0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:48.080
<v Speaker 1>even after Gemini launched turn in early and at the

0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:52.599
<v Speaker 1>time the brothers said that, you know, essentially they're checking

0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:57.400
<v Speaker 1>up on their partner, They're checking up genesiss financials from

0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:01.599
<v Speaker 1>time to time. So people had a lot more faith

0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:04.320
<v Speaker 1>in in what gem and I was doing with EARN

0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:13.560
<v Speaker 1>even as a lot of other yield programs collapsed last year. Now,

0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.960
<v Speaker 1>one of the bits of reporting that you had in

0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:21.240
<v Speaker 1>the profile that you wrote of you know, the Winklevoss

0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:24.240
<v Speaker 1>Twins and what they've been dealing with is that they

0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:29.320
<v Speaker 1>have a cover band. Absolutely it's called Mars Junction and essentially,

0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:33.640
<v Speaker 1>uh they actually went on tour last summer as a

0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:40.000
<v Speaker 1>lot of this troubles and Crypto just first started appearing

0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.880
<v Speaker 1>and boiling to the surface. Why are people not about this?

0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:48.000
<v Speaker 1>Do they hit music? So? No? I think um, I

0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.440
<v Speaker 1>think it just a lot of people are wondering why

0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:55.240
<v Speaker 1>they went on tour when things were going south and Crypto,

0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:57.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, at the time when they went on tour

0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:03.200
<v Speaker 1>h three arrows the hedge fund that ultimately um led

0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:09.320
<v Speaker 1>to troubles. That Genesis was collapsing and uh Celsius was

0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:12.800
<v Speaker 1>in the brink of bankruptcy, and you know, this domino

0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:16.040
<v Speaker 1>started following and we uh, you know, only months later

0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:19.480
<v Speaker 1>can see just how interconnected all the different parts of

0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:22.840
<v Speaker 1>the crypto ecosystem are. All these companies you know, lent

0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:26.840
<v Speaker 1>and borrowed from each other and did business with each other,

0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:32.000
<v Speaker 1>and you know, um, there's hardly anybody in the crypto

0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:36.880
<v Speaker 1>industry that hasn't been impacted in some way by what happened. Now.

0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:40.520
<v Speaker 1>I feel like over the past couple of weeks of episodes,

0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:43.880
<v Speaker 1>I have to talk about the Securities and Exchange Commission

0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:46.720
<v Speaker 1>like every single time because they're like, Hi, we're here too,

0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:49.320
<v Speaker 1>So what is the sec of two as it relates

0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:53.760
<v Speaker 1>to this Genesis Gemini situation? Why are they also involved? Sure? So,

0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:59.880
<v Speaker 1>the sec essentially filed a lawsuit against Genesis and gem

0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:05.000
<v Speaker 1>and I, accusing them of basically running this earned program

0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:10.440
<v Speaker 1>even though in their opinion, it's equivalent to offering unregistered securities.

0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:15.560
<v Speaker 1>So you have regulators as part of the mix as well,

0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:21.440
<v Speaker 1>which I'm sure complicates any sort of settlement and discussions

0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:28.560
<v Speaker 1>that are happening. Why over the past several months do

0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:32.120
<v Speaker 1>you think we have seen so much more of this

0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:38.080
<v Speaker 1>kind of SEC litigation, because you know, if we go

0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:43.440
<v Speaker 1>back to let's say two thousand twenty early one, the

0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:45.920
<v Speaker 1>rhetoric was much different. You know, there was this kind

0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:49.400
<v Speaker 1>of excitement and enthusiasm because folks were like, oh, Gary Gensler,

0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:52.200
<v Speaker 1>he taught a blockchain class, like he's down for the cause.

0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:57.080
<v Speaker 1>And now they're like, Gary Ginsler, why is he coming

0:08:57.160 --> 0:09:01.880
<v Speaker 1>for us? Like what what happened to? You know, have

0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:05.640
<v Speaker 1>this shift of the SEC from like we're keeping an

0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:07.960
<v Speaker 1>eye on things too, and now we're coming after you.

0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.880
<v Speaker 1>You know, Gary Ginsler is under a lot of pressure

0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:14.040
<v Speaker 1>as well. He is facing a lot of criticism because

0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:17.760
<v Speaker 1>he was pursuing Kim Kardashi and with his enforcement actions

0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:21.600
<v Speaker 1>while you know, a lot of this bad stuff that

0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.800
<v Speaker 1>is affecting thousands or hundreds of thousands of people has

0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:29.320
<v Speaker 1>been happening and the SEC has done nothing until sort

0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:33.880
<v Speaker 1>of everybody was already uh, you know, in bankruptcy if

0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:38.280
<v Speaker 1>you will, right, or nearing bankruptcy. And so Gary Ginsler

0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.120
<v Speaker 1>is facing a lot of criticistem off, like where were

0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:43.960
<v Speaker 1>you and why didn't you go after this guy's earlier

0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:48.320
<v Speaker 1>while uh, you know, they weren't in such trouble and

0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.320
<v Speaker 1>maybe the users could have gotten some of some more

0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:55.040
<v Speaker 1>of their money back up next, more from Bloomberg Reports

0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.920
<v Speaker 1>to Olga Karif on what's happening with the Winkle Lost Wins.

0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:12.480
<v Speaker 1>We'll be right back in the Gloomberg ecosystem, you know,

0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:17.120
<v Speaker 1>our colleague. On Bloomberg Opinion, Aaron Brown made the argument

0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:22.000
<v Speaker 1>that the Winklevoss twins reputation has been severely tarnished. This

0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:25.560
<v Speaker 1>idea that they were like the literal golden Boys of

0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:30.560
<v Speaker 1>crypto seems to be fading a little bit. Do you

0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:34.800
<v Speaker 1>think that the Winklevosses have a tarnished reputation? Quote unquote.

0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:38.120
<v Speaker 1>So so I'm of two minds here. On the one hand,

0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:42.960
<v Speaker 1>um Gemini says it worked with regulators, It ran it's

0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:47.200
<v Speaker 1>earned product by them and they didn't say anything against it.

0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:51.160
<v Speaker 1>And of course we know that coin Base tried to

0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:55.120
<v Speaker 1>launch a similar product and was directly told by regulators

0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.520
<v Speaker 1>that if you launch, it will sue, and so they

0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:02.280
<v Speaker 1>put it back off the clear. So, on the one hand,

0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:06.720
<v Speaker 1>you would think that once Gemini saw the coin based action,

0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:10.760
<v Speaker 1>maybe it should have reconsidered or done something. On the

0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:13.520
<v Speaker 1>other hand, if they what what they say is true,

0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:17.439
<v Speaker 1>and they initially got a green light from from their regulators,

0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.680
<v Speaker 1>then they could also feel like, we we haven't done

0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.920
<v Speaker 1>anything wrong, you know. I think part of what needs

0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:29.520
<v Speaker 1>to happen is re examination of regulators role and actions

0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:32.560
<v Speaker 1>and whether they were asleep at the wheel, whether they

0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:36.240
<v Speaker 1>did all they were supposed to, and overall, I think

0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:40.439
<v Speaker 1>Gemini still continues to have, you know, a much better

0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:44.760
<v Speaker 1>reputation than a lot of other overseas exchanges, and the

0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:50.600
<v Speaker 1>wink of US twins are obviously accomplished and known people

0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.920
<v Speaker 1>who are trying to comply with the US law, as

0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:59.600
<v Speaker 1>they have repeatedly said, so, you know, but I also

0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.600
<v Speaker 1>at the same time, um, there are a lot of

0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:06.920
<v Speaker 1>posts on Reddit and other social networks essentially saying, you know,

0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:11.320
<v Speaker 1>I used to be a loyal Gemini customer and I've left.

0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:14.320
<v Speaker 1>I am fed up with this. I lost money on

0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:18.480
<v Speaker 1>earn not coming back, and in fact, if we look

0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:22.120
<v Speaker 1>at statistics, Gemini lost quite a bit of market share

0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:26.320
<v Speaker 1>over the last year. So I think there's definitely been

0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:29.280
<v Speaker 1>damaged done. You know, at the same time, this is

0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:33.200
<v Speaker 1>part of a problem that has impacted the entire industry.

0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:40.400
<v Speaker 1>The Winkle Vye have had to play this very delicately,

0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:43.120
<v Speaker 1>these two different things where we're like, we wear polo shirts,

0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:45.760
<v Speaker 1>but we also shred I mean guitar and you know,

0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.040
<v Speaker 1>it seems like kind of emblematic of what they were

0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.040
<v Speaker 1>trying to do with Gemini, right, like offer these attractive,

0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:55.480
<v Speaker 1>slightly risky yields but also benefit from the perception that

0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:59.280
<v Speaker 1>they were one of the safer places to be. How

0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:02.360
<v Speaker 1>possible is is going to be in the future in

0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:08.160
<v Speaker 1>this regulatory environment. I think with regulators really kind of

0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:12.240
<v Speaker 1>tightening their grip on the sector, like you said, it

0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:16.240
<v Speaker 1>all goes to this trade off between risk and yield,

0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.960
<v Speaker 1>and I think what we might see is that as

0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:24.960
<v Speaker 1>regulations tighten, the ability to sort of speculate and earn

0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:31.760
<v Speaker 1>crazy double or triple digit yields here might decline. I'm

0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.600
<v Speaker 1>not sure it will go away completely, but it might decline.

0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:38.600
<v Speaker 1>But maybe it's a good thing from the point of send,

0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:42.040
<v Speaker 1>point of investor protection and so forth. But in terms

0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:46.439
<v Speaker 1>of where Gemini and the Winkless Brothers go from here,

0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:49.439
<v Speaker 1>I think it still remains to be seen. They they

0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.880
<v Speaker 1>both sort of insist that they're not going anywhere. They're

0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:56.520
<v Speaker 1>very strong believers in the sector. A couple of years ago,

0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:01.280
<v Speaker 1>Tyler winkle Loss wrote The Big Essays, saying, according to

0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:05.800
<v Speaker 1>his estimates, he believes that bitcoin will will reach you know,

0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:09.640
<v Speaker 1>five thousands. We think at attend trillion dollar market cap.

0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:14.679
<v Speaker 1>We think one bitcoin well worth five dollars, and we

0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:18.160
<v Speaker 1>think that could happen inside this decade, definitely the next

0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:21.240
<v Speaker 1>five years. So we're hardlers at least until they're not

0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:25.320
<v Speaker 1>just saying that they completely believe that this will be achieved.

0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:27.440
<v Speaker 1>And I sort of tend to be of the mind

0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:31.080
<v Speaker 1>that he has. People's memories are short and and if

0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:35.160
<v Speaker 1>we enter another bullmarket, you know, their business will recover.

0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:38.800
<v Speaker 1>And just as a last question on that points about

0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.760
<v Speaker 1>them sticking around, you know, one of the things that

0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:45.560
<v Speaker 1>you've mentioned is the fact that the brothers have a

0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:49.040
<v Speaker 1>lot of their own personal wealth right partly from investing

0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:53.800
<v Speaker 1>in bitcoin. Very very early. Have they made any suggestions

0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:58.440
<v Speaker 1>too towards saying that they would personally make any of

0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:02.480
<v Speaker 1>the investors in the urned products whole, or the kind

0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:08.280
<v Speaker 1>of separating them as individuals from Geminio's entity. So there

0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.240
<v Speaker 1>has been no suggestion that they would use their personal

0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:16.280
<v Speaker 1>wealth to bail anybody out. So each brother has about

0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.280
<v Speaker 1>three point two billion and personal wealth at this point. Uh.

0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:23.560
<v Speaker 1>And I think a lot of investors, even investors in

0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:29.400
<v Speaker 1>Gemini who you know, the latest round uh Gemini raised

0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:34.840
<v Speaker 1>was in late they raised four hundred million at valuation

0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.720
<v Speaker 1>of seven billion for the Gemini exchange. Uh. You know,

0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:43.040
<v Speaker 1>a lot of investors in Gemini even believe that, you know,

0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:47.320
<v Speaker 1>if something goes wrong, the brothers will backstop the exchange

0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:51.160
<v Speaker 1>because they own about seventy of it. But whether they

0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:54.560
<v Speaker 1>would backstop earn users, I don't think that's clear at all.

0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:57.080
<v Speaker 1>They haven't said anything like this, and I think it's

0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:01.920
<v Speaker 1>very unlikely because they're not out right required to bail

0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:05.320
<v Speaker 1>anybody out. And while I think there might be some

0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:09.360
<v Speaker 1>legal arguments saying they have to make their users whole,

0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, this would have to go through a legal

0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:16.120
<v Speaker 1>process most likely before we know whether that's the case

0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.280
<v Speaker 1>or not. Well, as we say, it's never a dull moment.

0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for bring on the show today.

0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:25.480
<v Speaker 1>It was my pleasure. Thank you. That was Bloomberg reporter

0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:27.840
<v Speaker 1>Olga Carife. You can find more of her reporting on

0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:30.800
<v Speaker 1>the Bloomberg Terminal and on Bloomberg dot com, and be

0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:33.800
<v Speaker 1>sure to check out our twice weekly newsletter, Bloomberg Crypto.

0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:43.120
<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg and

0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:46.120
<v Speaker 1>I Heart Radio. For more shows from I Heart Radio,

0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.400
<v Speaker 1>visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:53.080
<v Speaker 1>you get your podcasts. Send us your comments, questions, or

0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:56.080
<v Speaker 1>suggestions for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net.

0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:03.000
<v Speaker 1>The supervisor producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Verglina. Our

0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:06.919
<v Speaker 1>senior producer is Janet Babin. Our producers are Mohammed Farouk

0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.320
<v Speaker 1>and Sharon Barriro. Our associate producers are Ty Butler and

0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:14.680
<v Speaker 1>Moses on Them. Desta wonder At is our engineer. Original

0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:19.480
<v Speaker 1>music by Leo Sidrn. I'm Stacy Marie Shmaal. We'll be

0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:20.119
<v Speaker 1>back tomorrow