WEBVTT - 7: The Support Systems 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:14.600 I'm just a book way fearing stranger traveling through this 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:31.080 world below. There's no seedness danger in that bride word 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:38.280 to which I go, Welcome to death, grief and other 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:45.599 shit we don't discuss. I'm Kyle McMahon. The rush of 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:49.360 the funeral was now over. Dad and I were back 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.680 in the car, headed to Aunt Cathy's for the funeral reception. 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:55.600 I always thought it was weird that you'd have a 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:59.680 sort of sad party after a funeral. Some call it 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:03.160 a you passed, Others call it a celebration of life. 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:12.080 I call it weird, hard sad. At least for me. 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:15.039 The last thing I feel like doing after burying a 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.840 loved one at a funeral is going and talking to 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:22.360 people about them while eating tiny sausages. For me, it's 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:25.480 just a strange tradition, and I guess I get the 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:29.240 point behind it. Funeral receptions are meant to allow loved 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:33.000 ones to connect over the deceased, to tell stories and 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:37.760 commemorate their life. It's just that for me, it's so 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:45.320 very sad, especially when it's my own mom. After the reception, 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:48.200 I went back home and got out of my dress 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:51.680 pants and suit and into some comfortable sweats and a 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.880 T shirt and laid in bed with blue to zone 0:01:54.880 --> 0:02:01.320 out to bad reality TV shows. Immediately a text from Michelle, 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:03.720 who asked me if I wanted to come over, and 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:07.360 although I really didn't want to leave my bubble, I 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:10.720 figured I really should get out and do something, so 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:14.280 I headed over there. I'm really lucky to have her, 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:18.000 you see. Over the week or so that Mom had passed, 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:20.880 I had so many people that had been reaching out 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:24.120 to me. There were hundreds of texts and calls and 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:28.040 voicemails and messages. I couldn't muster the will to pick 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:30.880 up or to respond to most of them. And there 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:33.760 was no rhyme or reason to who I picked up 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:37.079 for or didn't, and it wasn't intentional. I was just 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:43.280 overwhelmed and numb and lost. I was just going through 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:47.000 the motions. At that point. I was still processing the 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:51.040 newness of this, and I certainly didn't want to keep 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:54.520 reliving it over and over and over telling people what 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:58.360 had happened and how I was feeling. I just couldn't 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:03.160 do it right then. I was surprised by a number 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:07.080 of people's reactions, though some surprised me in a good way, 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:13.560 while others surprised me in a different way. One friend, 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:16.320 who had gone to the funeral I hadn't really heard 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:20.280 from in the week prior. She eventually texted me to 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:23.640 apologize for not being there like she should have. She said, 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:26.400 I didn't know what to say, and I didn't want 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:30.400 to upset you. I responded that you didn't have to 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:34.200 say anything in particular, you could just start with HI. 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.480 Her and I were always texting each other funny memes 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:42.360 back and forth, so her absence over the last week 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:47.080 or so had definitely been noticed. She said, I feel 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:49.240 like you'd think it was insensitive to send you a 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.280 meme when your mom has just passed, And I said, 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.760 I totally get where you're coming from, but so you know, 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:59.440 for the next person, I probably would have appreciated that 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:04.760 moment of laughter. She apologized again and told me that 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:09.080 if I needed anything, she would be there, and in reality, 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:11.800 I knew that if I had reached out to her, 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:14.960 she would be there. So many of my friends were 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:21.600 my family, people that I work with. I'm very lucky 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:25.560 to have a great support system, and that's a good 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:28.760 thing to remind myself too. In order to be there 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:31.480 for my loved ones during times when they lose someone 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:34.720 that they love. Now that I have the experience of it, 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:37.360 on the other side, I know, at least for me, 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:41.000 that anyone could have texted or called or FaceTime like 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:44.080 they always have. And if I couldn't muster the energy 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:46.640 to pick up my phone at that moment, then I 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:50.160 just wouldn't. And again, it was nothing personal to them. 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:54.560 It could have been anybody. At that time. I had 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:58.480 friends that really really rose to the occasion. People were 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:01.839 dropping off food from myself, Elf and Dad. People were 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:05.280 taking us to dinner, inviting us over. Things like that 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:08.560 really helped. I mean, I didn't cook dinner on a 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:11.320 good day, so I certainly wasn't even thinking about food 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:15.760 during this time. My parents neighbors Wayning Diane, they had 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:20.880 invited us over for dinner. Brandon had taken me out 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:24.479 for dinner to talk if I wanted to talk or 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:27.760 we could just eat, he said. My friend Tamika had 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:30.200 dropped off a tray of food at my house. And 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.200 it's funny because at the time that she had texted me, 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:35.039 I just so happened to not pick up because I 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.919 was in one of those moments and she texted and 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:41.040 made me laugh. I don't care if you pick up 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:44.400 or not. My ass is coming over and seeing you, 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:47.880 And that made me laugh so much and know that 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:51.480 I really am loved. My friend Courtney had texted me 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:55.120 throughout the entire thing and just said I'm here for 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:59.560 you if you need me, and so did Jeff and 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:05.279 In and Luke. Even Mom's friends were dropping off food 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:10.279 for Dad and myself. I saw one friend the day 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:14.600 after the funeral by pure coincidence, a very very close 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:18.039 friend who I had been there for through his own 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:21.880 father's passing. In fact, i'd been there earlier that night 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:26.440 watching a movie. We knew his father's time was coming soon, 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.440 and eventually I wanted to give them some space to 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:33.160 say their goodbye, so I headed home. Within thirty minutes, 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:35.800 he had called me saying as Dad was gone. So 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:37.640 I got back in the car and went over there 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:39.440 just to be there for him and his family in 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:43.000 whatever way I could. He didn't want to talk, he 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.880 wasn't one of those people. He just wanted me there 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:48.560 and we ended up falling asleep on the floor watching 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:52.240 a movie. I was there for him in whatever capacity 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:55.760 he needed, and for him that meant just being physically present, 0:06:55.839 --> 0:07:00.280 and so I was. And now I've run into him 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.240 the day after my mom's funeral, where he wasn't there, 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:06.520 and so I asked him, where were you for mom's funeral? 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:10.160 He had been to my parents' house a million times, 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:13.720 and my mom had done so much for him as 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:18.480 his mom had done for me. He nonchalantly replied, I 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.280 knew the church would be at capacity, so I figured 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:25.760 other people should be there before me. And while anger 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:30.440 and hurt fueled through my body, I could only reply 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:33.880 with we had saved you a seat with the family. 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.040 You would have known that, but I didn't hear from 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:43.160 you at all. I didn't have the energy to fight 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:45.400 with him about it. I didn't have the energy to 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:48.040 tell him how selfish that was, or how he could 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:51.720 have simply asked me or just texted me to let 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:54.360 me know he was thinking about me. Were asked if 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:58.200 I needed anything at all, such as his physical presence. 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:01.280 The fact of the matter, as I realized in that 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:05.080 moment that his own selfishness and lack of empathy was 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:09.920 his own very large dysfunction, and I was in no 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:13.640 position whatsoever to argue with that, not in that moment 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:21.720 to this day, that still hurts me. It seems there 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.679 were a few people very close to me that didn't 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:27.480 show up in the way that I expected them to 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:32.280 that I needed them to. Another good friend I had 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:35.200 texted the moment we got the funeral info to let 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.160 him know so he could make arrangements to be there, 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.360 and he responded, I'm not coming, Kyle. I don't do 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:44.360 funerals and crying. You know that I'll grieve in my 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:48.360 own way. I replied to him, but I need you 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:54.560 there for me. I didn't get a reply back. He's 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:57.480 another one that has been to my parents' house and 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.200 family events and have been a good friend for a 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:03.960 long time. But despite the ones who so deeply hurt 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:09.120 me in my worst moments, so many others surprised me. Jason, 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.720 which is no surprise, was there as a constant day 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:15.400 and night. If he hadn't heard from me for a 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:17.560 few hours, he'd text me to see how I was. 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:20.000 And that was whether he was at work or at 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:22.920 the gym, or at home with his wife and young 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:28.320 son JJ and newborn Braxton. He showed up over and 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:32.319 over and over again, and to this day he continues 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:37.839 to show up. In fact, so many of my close 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:41.160 friends were checking in on me, stopping by asking if 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:43.800 I needed anything, and of course my family as well. 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:48.200 I was leaning heavily on Dad and Kim and Aunt 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:52.559 Kathy and uncle Tom and TJ, and my aunt Kathleen 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:57.040 and Uncle Kevin and Aunt Michelle and my cousins. I 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:03.040 was leaning on everybody close to me, heavily and strangely, 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:07.000 as alone as I really really felt without Mom here, 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:09.960 I had a small army of people there for me 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:14.720 that were just the text away. A text from Militia 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:18.640 actually said this is a quote, you are never alone. 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:23.800 Those four words helped me more than she'll ever ever know. 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:30.360 Kat my programming director from my heart, said we will 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:34.240 get you through this. That's what she texted me. Her 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.400 strength helped me when I had none of my own. 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:41.280 My cousin TJ showed up just to see how I 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.720 was doing, and although I didn't even want to get 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.360 out of bed to open the door, I'm glad that 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:51.760 I did. Through my grief journey, I'm learning that some 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:57.480 people aren't the people you thought they were, and some 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:02.480 are more incredible than you could have ever imagined. People 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:05.280 were showing up for me in whatever way they could. 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.000 They were reminders that at some point I was going 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:12.320 to have to show up for myself too, because that's 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:14.800 certainly not something that I was doing at that moment. 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:20.200 This grief journey was going to be a hard, windy 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:25.199 road that never ends. I'll always be on that journey 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:29.560 of grieving my mom, but I've got a strong support 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:33.839 system that will help me through it. And that's not 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:39.000 something that just appeared. That's something that I've actively worked 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:46.480 on to show up for them too. Did you know 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:50.040 that when you have a secure attachment with your loved 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:54.040 one that has passed, there are actual physiological changes that 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:57.280 happen to your body, both through their death and again 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:03.200 whenever you're actively thinking about them. Doctor Jesse Stern is 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:07.839 a developmental psychologist at University of Virginia who studies attachments 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:12.319 and their effect on various stages of life. Attachments or 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:16.920 lack of them, have profound effects or not just our relationships, 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:22.600 but our entire lives when we return. Doctor Stern and 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.000 I explore how attachments to our loved ones that have 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:28.440 passed and our attachments to our support systems can help 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:45.439 or hurt our grieving process. Doctor Jesse Stern has dedicated 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:51.920 her life to examining attachments, parenting, social neuroscience, child social 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:57.160 emotional development, and relationships. Her deep study in these topics 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:00.960 have made her an expert in attachments, human relationships, and 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:05.320 support systems. I wanted to see just how important support 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:09.400 systems were in both life and death. But first we 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:15.200 had to start with the basics, Like what is attachment anyway? 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:18.880 Attachment is kind of the bond that you have with 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:23.320 another person. It's a specific type of relationship. It's one 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:26.160 where you lean on the other person for support when 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:30.120 you need it. So this is not just a casual 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:33.160 acquaintance or someone you like hanging out with that it's 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.640 the friend you call when you really need help. So 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:39.760 those kinds of attachments can be really different from one 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.520 person to the next because the quality of our relationships 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:46.840 is super different. So I'm interested in how the quality 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:50.800 of your relationship with somebody, Are they reliable, are they trustworthy? 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:53.160 How does that allow you to go out into the 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:55.439 world do the things you want to do, and also 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:58.640 pay forward that kindness to other people. So some of 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.480 my work shows that if you have a secure attachment, 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.320 let's say, to a parent when you're a teenager, you're 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:07.040 more likely to be able to show your close friends 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:10.160 empathy from the time you're sixteen all the way through 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:13.600 early adulthood, which is pretty cool. That is awesome. And 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:18.000 I know this is anecdotal, but I can testify to 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:22.640 that fact. You know, I had extremely secure relationship with 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:26.640 my mom and dad, and both of them were are 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:30.880 very loving type of people that you don't leave without 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:33.280 saying love you, you know, even if you're mad, and 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.920 that sort of thing. And I would say, I'm a 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:39.520 pretty empathetic person and with you know, all of my 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:43.080 friends and other relationships. So I think that's interesting because 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.240 I can kind of relate to that totally. Yeah, I 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:47.840 can see it in your own life. Well, you're very 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:51.640 lucky to have not one, but two secure relationships. And actually, 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.800 what we know is that those sources of security can 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:58.040 build on each other right as sources of resilience. So 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:01.120 if you have one parent with whom you actually you 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.360 don't have a great relationship, but you have a great 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:07.280 best friend who you can trust, it kind of compensates 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:10.440 for the difficult relationship you have at home. So I 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:13.680 often say to my students, like, who maybe aren't as 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:16.720 lucky as you to have these great parents You can't 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:19.680 choose your family, but you can choose your friends. So 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.800 try to choose the friends who make you feel most secure. 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.080 Same with romantic partners. If you can find a romantic 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:28.400 partner who makes you feel really settled in your body 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:30.760 and who you feel like you can lean on when 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.320 times are hard, those are really the good litmus tests 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:40.120 for a relationship going forward. Wow. So, knowing this background, 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.640 what do we see when it comes to grief? You know, 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:47.840 I lost my mom, who was the closest person to 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:50.800 me in the world. It's a pancratic cancer and oh, 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:55.720 I'm so sorry, thank you she was. I still sometimes 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:58.800 talk about her in the present, but I was so 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:03.120 close with her that what I'm learning is that it's 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.080 not something I'm ever going to get over. Through doing 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:10.440 this series, I'm learning that, you know, grief is not 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:14.280 something you get over it. You know, you don't move 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:17.120 on from that person. You just learn how to live 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:23.479 with their absence. Yeah, and grief may take different forms 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:27.400 throughout our lives going forward, but it's always going to 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:32.280 be there somehow, and it's it's kind of how we 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:35.360 handle it, you know. And so so that's why I'm 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.200 you know, doing the show is just exploring all of 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:42.440 all of these things. What have you seen with various 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:47.880 attachments relating to someone that you love that's passing or 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:52.120 you know is going to pass. Yeah, it's such a 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:55.880 good question. The first thing to know is that we 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:59.560 grieve because we love, so grief and attachment are in 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:03.600 extreably intertwined. We lose many things over the course of 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:06.600 our lives, just the nature of impermanence. Right. We lose 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.480 our keys, we lose a water bottle on the subway. 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:12.280 But you know, if I had a set of keys 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.920 that belonged to my grandmother with whom I was very 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:18.600 close and I lost that set of keys, suddenly I 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:22.120 grieve for lost keys. And why is that? Because we 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:27.239 start to associate objects or places or activities with the 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:31.600 people we love. And that's actually one of the amazing 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:34.920 things about the human mind is that we can represent 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:39.360 the people who were close to in our minds so 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:42.520 that they can be present and alive in memory even 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:46.080 when they're not physically present or no longer alive. So 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:49.640 it yes, this is my mom's ring. Yeah, I think 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:53.680 that's really beautiful. And in fact, with the data shows 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:57.240 is that if you're aware that the person has passed 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:00.719 on and you're you're not in denial about that fact, 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.800 but you're keeping them alive psychologically, and you keep them 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:08.480 with you here in your heart. That's actually associated with 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:12.720 pretty positive outcomes. These are called continuing bonds, and it's 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:15.080 the idea that just because the person close to you 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:19.280 has died, the relationship doesn't end. You're still connected to 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:24.520 that person and also calling to mind the positive aspects 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:28.359 of the relationship can be a source of security and 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:33.080 comfort even during the grieving process. So it might not 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:36.159 feel good necessarily to think about your mom when the 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:40.600 grief is fresh, but with some time and space, her 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.640 memory will be a source of security for you. This 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:46.960 is actually something we do in our research quite a bit. 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:51.359 Is called security priming, and regardless of whether you have 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:54.199 a secure attachment or not in your daily life, you 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:58.119 can increase your felt sense of security or your sense 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:02.200 of state of call home, and you can lower your 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:04.880 heart rate and your blood pressure by doing this. If 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.240 I ask you to close your eyes and think of 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:09.640 the person you can most depend on to be there 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:13.400 for you in times of trouble, and just picture their 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:19.440 face and imagine being with them. Typically people's breathing slows down. 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:23.080 They have a sense of calm Physiologically, they sometimes say 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:26.359 I feel warm. Other folks say they feel happy, But 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:28.600 this cluster of words is always the same. I do 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:30.520 this in all my classes. All the students say the 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:33.320 same thing about the feelings that it conjures up. And 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:37.920 what's interesting about this is just that felt sense can 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:40.400 get you a lot of the benefits of actually being 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:43.960 a securely attached person. So if you're insecure with your relationships, 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:47.480 you can try practicing this yourself, just with one person 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:50.600 who you can trust. You're more likely to be empathic 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:55.160 to someone. You're more likely to hold more positive views 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:58.520 of outgroup members or people different from you. You can 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:00.679 regulate your emotions a little bit better. You get all 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:04.760 these benefits from it. So why not. But let's talk 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:07.480 a little bit about how you know if you don't 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:12.160 have that security, what that means for grief. One thing 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:15.240 we know is that for folks who have an anxious 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:18.800 attachment style, this would be somebody who worries a lot 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:24.040 about their relationships and especially is worried about abandonment. Usually 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:28.960 this comes from having a history of inconsistent care. Sometimes 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:31.960 my parents were there for me, and sometimes they weren't. 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.439 I didn't really get my needs met all the time. 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:37.439 It was very inconsistent. I didn't know who to trust. 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:42.240 That kind of history means in your current relationships, it's 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:44.639 kind of hard to fully know is someone there for me? 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:47.879 Are you going to leave? Are you really there? And 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:50.320 what we know about the grief process is it for 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:54.280 folks with anxious attachment. They tend to have a lot 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:59.560 higher distress following grief, and they're much more likely to 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:03.919 experience as anger and preoccupation about the person who has died, 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.040 not in a way that is comforting, more in a 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:12.159 way that is chronically distressing. Another style of insecure attachment 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:16.000 is avoidant attachment. Usually this comes from a place of 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:20.200 having your vulnerability or your needs rejected in some way. 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:24.640 So it could be that your parents weren't really comfortable 0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:27.280 with you showing emotion and we're kind of like, you 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:29.320 need to deal with that by yourself, don't be a 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:33.320 cry baby. Man up all those kinds of messages. And 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:37.240 in adulthood, what we see with avoidant folks is a 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:41.600 tendency to downplay with they're feeling. I'm fine, I'm over it. 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:44.040 You know you talked about how we never fully get 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:46.560 over lost. The s would be the folks who say, no, 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:49.879 I'm over it, it's not an issue. They also are 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:53.640 more likely to stay in denial longer because the numbness 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:57.080 that comes with denial is protecting them against the vulnerability 0:21:57.080 --> 0:22:01.800 of their pain. The other trick key part about avoidance is, 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:04.320 you know, sometimes it can look like this person is 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:07.520 grieving great along the surface, all they're doing great, They're 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:10.479 already back at work, things must be going really well. 0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:15.639 But there's a fragility to that, and once they become 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:18.640 under stress, a lot of the grief that has not 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:22.840 been acknowledged might come up. Those folks are also the 0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:26.440 least likely to seek out social support, which turns out 0:22:26.440 --> 0:22:33.119 to be really important for healthy grieving. That's absolutely incredible information, 0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:37.760 and I love how it has been quantitated. I guess 0:22:38.040 --> 0:22:41.880 is the world totally Yeah, quantified, quantified. This is why 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:45.240 I try not to use big words, but you know, 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:48.879 it really is interesting. And I've seen this with my 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:52.879 own mom, how different people grieve differently, And you know, 0:22:52.960 --> 0:22:57.480 through other of my close connections who they themselves have 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:02.080 suffered a laws, how they have handed it, And you know, 0:23:02.119 --> 0:23:04.920 I've kind of seen all types of those people, and 0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:08.480 and in fact, in my support system, I've seen that 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:12.120 a bit. I had a friend, very good friend who 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:14.720 for years and years and years, he has been to 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:17.640 my parents house. You know, my mom had made him 0:23:17.680 --> 0:23:21.120 food before, and you know, long term friend. And when 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:24.439 she passed away, obviously he knew and all that. But 0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:28.040 when I went to send him the funeral information, he 0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:30.000 was like, oh, I'm not coming to that. And I'm 0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:33.240 like but and he was like, yeah, I don't do 0:23:33.400 --> 0:23:36.720 stuff like that. You know, I don't do funerals and 0:23:36.760 --> 0:23:39.320 all those people crying, I just don't do that. And 0:23:39.359 --> 0:23:45.639 I'm you know, at first, I was insanely angry and hurt. 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:50.399 I wanted to be like, it's not about you, you know, 0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:54.280 it's it's not what you need. I was hoping that 0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:59.679 you would be there for me, just support, and I 0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:03.639 just sided relatively quickly at that time that I didn't 0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:06.520 have the space to handle that at that time because 0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:10.560 I was, you know, totally consumed in everything going on. 0:24:11.200 --> 0:24:16.040 But I eventually kind of thought that that sucks, not 0:24:16.119 --> 0:24:19.480 just for me, but for him, because you know, if 0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:22.720 you are unable to be there for somebody that's close 0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:25.960 to you in a time where they're clearly hurting and 0:24:26.160 --> 0:24:31.720 need your support. That's kind of you know, stunted psychologically 0:24:31.720 --> 0:24:35.080 on your end, you know what I mean. And it's 0:24:35.080 --> 0:24:37.600 just interesting to me. You know. I had one friend 0:24:37.600 --> 0:24:39.960 and she's she's a great friend, and I didn't really 0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:42.359 hear from her, and her and I again very close, 0:24:42.400 --> 0:24:44.399 and we texted all the time, and then suddenly she 0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:47.399 kind of stopped texting, and so I reached out to 0:24:47.400 --> 0:24:49.400 her and I was like, you know, are you doing okay? 0:24:49.600 --> 0:24:51.880 And she's like, yeah, I'm so sorry. I will do 0:24:51.960 --> 0:24:54.280 anything that you need. She said, I just don't know 0:24:54.320 --> 0:24:57.840 how to be there for you. And that was interesting 0:24:57.920 --> 0:25:00.800 for me because basically what she was saying was tell 0:25:00.840 --> 0:25:03.400 me what you need and I'll do it. But I 0:25:03.440 --> 0:25:05.560 don't know what to do. So I'm just kind of 0:25:05.560 --> 0:25:08.080 like over here in the corner. You know. She was like, 0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:10.160 I don't want to like joke around like we normally do, 0:25:10.280 --> 0:25:13.600 because I don't want to like hurt you or whatever. 0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:16.880 And I'm like, just just be, you know, the way 0:25:16.920 --> 0:25:20.680 we always are, you know, and if I don't feel 0:25:20.680 --> 0:25:23.480 like laughing at that moment, I won't laugh. I mean, 0:25:24.000 --> 0:25:26.480 you're not gonna hurt me. And then she was totally 0:25:27.320 --> 0:25:31.199 there and available and you know, there for me. I 0:25:31.240 --> 0:25:34.879 had this third example was a very one of my 0:25:34.880 --> 0:25:39.439 closest friends, and I was there for him through parental loss, 0:25:40.000 --> 0:25:43.359 and I mean very intimately. I was there, very intimately 0:25:43.440 --> 0:25:46.760 for him. I was there, you know, soon after they 0:25:46.760 --> 0:25:49.920 passed and all of that totally you know, didn't come 0:25:49.920 --> 0:25:52.720 to my mom's funeral and I was like, where are 0:25:52.800 --> 0:25:55.120 you And he's like, uh, oh, you know, I knew 0:25:55.160 --> 0:25:58.320 that because during COVID the funeral they had to cap 0:25:58.400 --> 0:26:00.760 a at like two hundred or something, and he was like, oh, 0:26:00.800 --> 0:26:02.479 I knew that. You know, there's gonna be way more 0:26:02.480 --> 0:26:04.840 than two hundreds. So I wanted, you know, you guys 0:26:04.840 --> 0:26:06.480 to have a spot for somebody else. And I'm like, 0:26:07.000 --> 0:26:09.680 we were gonna have you sit with the family and 0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:15.680 just totally absent in any aspect relating to that, even 0:26:15.680 --> 0:26:18.440 though it was quite the opposite for you know, when 0:26:18.440 --> 0:26:22.560 it was the opposite situation. So my point is, and 0:26:22.600 --> 0:26:25.199 then I had a you know, amazing in general, I 0:26:25.240 --> 0:26:28.200 have a very amazing support system. I'm making it sound like, 0:26:28.480 --> 0:26:33.199 you know, these three people represented everybody, but they absolutely didn't. 0:26:33.440 --> 0:26:37.160 Well but those are the ones that absolutely, yeah, they 0:26:37.200 --> 0:26:40.000 do and you don't know, or at least I did 0:26:40.040 --> 0:26:42.359 not know how to handle that at that time. And 0:26:42.400 --> 0:26:45.040 I still hold resentment, you know, in some ways to 0:26:45.119 --> 0:26:48.160 a couple of them, and I'll have to work through that. 0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:51.199 But is that something Do I just you know, have 0:26:51.200 --> 0:26:54.639 a tendency to pick horribul friends of my life or 0:26:54.720 --> 0:26:58.960 is that Is this representative of kind of what anybody 0:26:59.040 --> 0:27:04.600 would go through with their circle. I think it's absolutely representative. 0:27:05.480 --> 0:27:10.840 Part of it is cultural. We live in the Western world, 0:27:10.920 --> 0:27:16.320 where there's a focus on individualism, we are not a 0:27:16.440 --> 0:27:21.760 very communal culture. In communal cultures, if something good happens, 0:27:21.800 --> 0:27:24.520 everybody comes together and celebrates with you, and if something 0:27:24.520 --> 0:27:27.119 bad happens, everybody comes together and brings you food and 0:27:27.160 --> 0:27:31.480 does the whole really supports you closely. In a lot 0:27:31.520 --> 0:27:36.080 of Latino immigrant communities, that communalism is still there in 0:27:36.200 --> 0:27:39.359 ways that four to five the community. It's there for 0:27:39.400 --> 0:27:43.040 a lot of African American folks as well. Actually, marginalized 0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:47.320 communities do this well because they have to. And we 0:27:47.400 --> 0:27:50.320 can learn from the resilience of the communities who do 0:27:50.400 --> 0:27:53.960 this well, who come together for each other However, within 0:27:54.080 --> 0:27:57.920 any community, there are always individual differences. People are hugely 0:27:57.960 --> 0:28:02.080 different one to the next. So even within our hyperindividualistic culture, 0:28:02.160 --> 0:28:04.120 there are people who just they know it to do. 0:28:04.920 --> 0:28:07.720 Some of this is modeled for us. How did we 0:28:07.840 --> 0:28:12.399 see the generation above us deal with loss? If the 0:28:12.480 --> 0:28:16.760 generation above us dealt with loss by not dealing with it, 0:28:17.240 --> 0:28:19.520 by not showing up to the funeral, that's the model 0:28:19.560 --> 0:28:24.119 we have. If even if I don't really feel comfortable 0:28:24.160 --> 0:28:27.040 with people's grief, I'm a little bit just I don't 0:28:27.040 --> 0:28:30.960 like seeing people cry, but I know from my own 0:28:31.000 --> 0:28:34.359 experience that this is what you do when someone dies. 0:28:34.480 --> 0:28:36.159 You show up, You bring them food. I have a 0:28:36.280 --> 0:28:41.040 schema in mind. A schema is just like a roadmap. Okay, 0:28:41.080 --> 0:28:45.400 when this happens, here's my roadmap for making sure I 0:28:45.520 --> 0:28:48.560 show up in some small way. A lot of people 0:28:48.600 --> 0:28:51.240 don't have that roadmap, and I don't think it's their fault, 0:28:51.760 --> 0:28:54.800 but I do think it's our responsibility to create a 0:28:54.880 --> 0:28:57.680 roadmap for loss, and we don't have one. And that's 0:28:57.680 --> 0:29:00.440 in part because we're all going through losses on mass 0:29:00.480 --> 0:29:03.440 scale right now. We need to have some way of 0:29:03.480 --> 0:29:06.880 dealing with it in our social communities. Otherwise our social 0:29:06.960 --> 0:29:09.640 communities are going to get free. I always like to 0:29:09.680 --> 0:29:12.640 say to people, there's no one one right way to grieve, 0:29:12.680 --> 0:29:15.520 as you said, but also there's no one right way 0:29:15.520 --> 0:29:18.160 to show up for somebody. The important part is that 0:29:18.200 --> 0:29:22.320 you show up. Typically, no one is going to remember 0:29:22.360 --> 0:29:25.400 what you said to them. They're going to remember that 0:29:25.440 --> 0:29:29.800 you were there and how you made them feel. Right, 0:29:30.960 --> 0:29:34.840 your presence is powerful. So if you don't know what 0:29:34.960 --> 0:29:39.400 to say to someone who just lost their special person, 0:29:39.560 --> 0:29:42.160 just say I'm so sorry for your loss and just 0:29:42.200 --> 0:29:45.680 sit with them. You don't have to say anything. Actually, 0:29:46.200 --> 0:29:48.400 one of the things about loss is that it actually 0:29:48.640 --> 0:29:52.800 is registered in our body, so in the wake of 0:29:52.960 --> 0:29:56.360 even a breakup, but also the loss of a spouse 0:29:57.200 --> 0:30:01.600 or prolonged separation from somebody. So for migrants who have 0:30:01.640 --> 0:30:04.200 had to move away from their families and their homeland 0:30:04.720 --> 0:30:10.440 and can't return safely, what you see is physiology. Your 0:30:10.440 --> 0:30:14.840 physiological rhythms get out of rhythm, your sleep might be disrupted, 0:30:15.480 --> 0:30:20.480 your levels of inflammation go way up, your immune function 0:30:20.560 --> 0:30:24.239 goes way down. And one other thing we know from 0:30:24.280 --> 0:30:29.280 attachment theory and research is that having the simple presence 0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:33.640 of one other person you trust can help recalibrate all 0:30:33.680 --> 0:30:36.800 of those things. This is called social regulation, and it 0:30:36.840 --> 0:30:40.600 just means that somebody's presence with you in a situation 0:30:40.640 --> 0:30:44.000 that's stressful and where your body and your brain are 0:30:44.080 --> 0:30:47.320 kind of reacting in the way that's totally understandable. Just 0:30:47.440 --> 0:30:52.200 that simple presence totally recalibrates and brings your breathing down. 0:30:52.840 --> 0:30:57.040 You actually heal faster from wounds and injuries if there's 0:30:57.080 --> 0:30:59.680 somebody with you by your hospital bed. I mean, it's 0:30:59.720 --> 0:31:03.360 why old what just simple social presence does. There's a 0:31:03.400 --> 0:31:07.120 great study by my friend and colleague Jim Cone where 0:31:07.480 --> 0:31:11.280 he put people in an MRI scanner under threat of 0:31:11.320 --> 0:31:16.040 electric shock, and he had them either do this alone, 0:31:16.640 --> 0:31:19.160 holding the hand of a stranger or holding the hand 0:31:19.200 --> 0:31:23.560 of their romantic partner. And when you're alone dealing with 0:31:23.800 --> 0:31:27.000 pain essentially, which we're also dealing with pain when you 0:31:27.000 --> 0:31:31.560 talk about loss. When you're alone dealing with pain, you're amygdala, 0:31:31.720 --> 0:31:33.600 which is the part of your brain that's all about 0:31:33.640 --> 0:31:39.400 fight flight freeze response, is just really active. If you're 0:31:39.400 --> 0:31:42.640 holding the hand of a stranger, maybe you get a 0:31:42.680 --> 0:31:45.800 little help. If you're holding the hand of your romantic partner, 0:31:46.200 --> 0:31:49.640 your amygdala response goes way down. This is true for 0:31:49.720 --> 0:31:52.960 kids holding the hand of their parents, and it's also 0:31:53.000 --> 0:31:54.720 true if you don't feel comfortable holding the hand of 0:31:54.720 --> 0:31:58.160 your buddy, that's okay. Just sitting next to them does 0:31:58.240 --> 0:32:04.000 a whole lot. We heal faster from wounds and injuries 0:32:04.040 --> 0:32:08.400 if there's somebody with you by your hospital bed. That 0:32:08.560 --> 0:32:12.800 incredible fact is just one of the benefits of healthy attachments. 0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:16.240 But what happens when the whirlwind dies down and those 0:32:16.440 --> 0:32:20.600 daily check ins turn into monthly texts, but you're still 0:32:20.680 --> 0:32:23.440 left grieving your loved one? Do you reach out to 0:32:23.480 --> 0:32:26.640 others for support? Do you just try and make do 0:32:26.800 --> 0:32:30.360 with what you do have? Doctor stern answers when we 0:32:30.400 --> 0:32:46.360 return often at some point, naturally the rush of people 0:32:46.400 --> 0:32:50.240 who are there for you fades away. It's only human nature, 0:32:50.360 --> 0:32:54.480 and nobody's at fault. Everyone can't be expected to put 0:32:54.520 --> 0:32:56.920 their life on hold while you grieve your loved one, 0:32:57.040 --> 0:33:01.080 because that's going to be something that never ends. But 0:33:01.680 --> 0:33:04.440 so many of us are still left with a devastating 0:33:04.520 --> 0:33:07.400 loss and may not be in a place where they 0:33:07.400 --> 0:33:10.720 feel comfortable reaching out for help, especially in those first 0:33:10.720 --> 0:33:14.880 few months and years, In the first few days and weeks, 0:33:15.200 --> 0:33:18.200 you have this twenty four seven support system, but then 0:33:18.720 --> 0:33:23.440 suddenly it just feels like it's gone. Doctor Stearn says 0:33:23.480 --> 0:33:25.520 that part of this is a result of it being 0:33:25.600 --> 0:33:29.000 the societal norm in the United States, but all hope 0:33:29.400 --> 0:33:35.680 isn't lost. There tends to be this idea that there's 0:33:35.680 --> 0:33:40.040 a timeline for grief, which I really don't think is true. 0:33:41.000 --> 0:33:45.160 But culturally, especially in the West, it's like the sooner 0:33:45.240 --> 0:33:49.440 you get over it, the better. Not every culture is 0:33:49.520 --> 0:33:54.080 like that. A lot of other cultures that have ancestor 0:33:54.160 --> 0:33:57.080 worship as part of the culture, So in Japan and 0:33:57.160 --> 0:34:01.400 other places, it's typical take a full year to really 0:34:01.440 --> 0:34:06.880 honor the person who has died, and the cultural norms 0:34:07.560 --> 0:34:10.319 are such that the social support is a little bit 0:34:10.360 --> 0:34:13.920 more sustained than what we have in the West. But 0:34:14.320 --> 0:34:17.080 the thing about cultural norms is that they can change. 0:34:17.880 --> 0:34:21.040 And what I'm really hoping is a silver lining from 0:34:21.080 --> 0:34:24.440 the pandemic is that we learn how to sustain the 0:34:24.560 --> 0:34:27.919 level of support that people actually need in the wake 0:34:27.960 --> 0:34:31.319 of loss, because we've all experienced it, and not only 0:34:31.320 --> 0:34:37.439 are we experiencing, actually experiencing multiple major systemic losses right now, 0:34:38.000 --> 0:34:41.720 huge loss of biodiversity, with the climate crisis, huge loss 0:34:41.719 --> 0:34:45.120 of life. We just passed one million deaths with COVID nineteen, 0:34:46.239 --> 0:34:50.520 huge loss with gun violence. It's now the top killer 0:34:50.640 --> 0:34:54.080 of youth in the United States, over and above car 0:34:54.080 --> 0:34:58.480 accidents and racism, I would say, is the last one 0:34:59.040 --> 0:35:03.480 that's taken the lie of many African American children and parents. 0:35:03.680 --> 0:35:06.640 I mean, the scale and the scope of these losses 0:35:06.760 --> 0:35:09.440 is huge. We have to find a better way to 0:35:09.440 --> 0:35:12.200 be there for each other in a sustained way. So 0:35:12.239 --> 0:35:14.480 the good news about social norms is that they're flexible 0:35:15.160 --> 0:35:18.440 and that each of us has the power to shift 0:35:18.520 --> 0:35:21.279 them and what we do. This means that if you 0:35:21.400 --> 0:35:25.279 know somebody who has gone through a loss, that you 0:35:25.480 --> 0:35:28.920 and other friends of that person who you know you 0:35:28.960 --> 0:35:30.960 can text all of them and say, hey, let's go 0:35:31.080 --> 0:35:35.359 bring this guy food, right, or Hey, I'm just I'm 0:35:35.400 --> 0:35:38.160 thinking about Kyle, and I think it would be great 0:35:38.200 --> 0:35:41.280 if all of us may be planned to just get dinner, 0:35:42.120 --> 0:35:47.120 something very simple. I mean, it doesn't have to be hey, 0:35:46.520 --> 0:35:50.279 i'm worried about how you're doing with your grief, Like, 0:35:50.600 --> 0:35:53.480 it doesn't have to be that. It can simply be hey, 0:35:53.520 --> 0:35:55.520 I was thinking about you how about we go grab 0:35:55.560 --> 0:35:59.360 dinner together, just like you would with a normal friendship. 0:35:59.600 --> 0:36:02.280 Those very simple ways to reach out to a person, 0:36:02.400 --> 0:36:05.040 and you can make that the norm within your little 0:36:05.080 --> 0:36:09.520 social circle, and it does ripple out because people pay 0:36:09.560 --> 0:36:14.680 forward the care they receive. Typically. The other thing is 0:36:15.280 --> 0:36:21.040 sometimes the people who best understand the long timeline that 0:36:21.080 --> 0:36:25.200 grief can take is other people who are grieving. So 0:36:25.440 --> 0:36:30.799 sometimes people find it helpful to join grief support groups. 0:36:30.840 --> 0:36:34.600 If your parent passed away from cancer, there are groups 0:36:34.840 --> 0:36:37.080 of folks who are either just mourning the death of 0:36:37.080 --> 0:36:40.280 a parent or mourning the death of anyone they loved 0:36:40.320 --> 0:36:45.520 from cancer. There are certainly a lot of COVID support groups. Sadly, 0:36:45.640 --> 0:36:48.120 there are groups of parents who have children who have 0:36:48.160 --> 0:36:51.360 died of gun violence, and those parents are coming together 0:36:51.480 --> 0:36:54.440 not just to grieve together, but also as part of 0:36:54.480 --> 0:36:58.959 making meaning from the loss and advocating for some kind 0:36:59.000 --> 0:37:04.200 of change in our society. So another part of grieving 0:37:04.239 --> 0:37:08.239 in community and continuing to have those social supports is 0:37:08.640 --> 0:37:11.080 doing something like what you're doing, which is making meaning 0:37:11.400 --> 0:37:12.920 from what you've been through in the form of a 0:37:12.960 --> 0:37:17.680 podcast that connects you to people. Meaning making is different 0:37:17.719 --> 0:37:22.000 for everybody, but it typically involves community in some way, 0:37:22.200 --> 0:37:26.719 and when you're thinking about organizing and doing something on 0:37:26.800 --> 0:37:30.440 a larger scale, often it requires sustained involvement. So you're 0:37:30.520 --> 0:37:33.279 just going to see those people more and more. I 0:37:33.360 --> 0:37:35.680 just want to emphasize that when I say making meaning, 0:37:36.160 --> 0:37:39.719 I don't mean that the loss was meaningful. A lot 0:37:39.760 --> 0:37:42.200 of losses are meaningless, like this person shouldn't have died, 0:37:42.840 --> 0:37:45.160 you know, they should still be here. I am saying 0:37:45.160 --> 0:37:50.280 that meaning happens in what you do following the loss. 0:37:50.280 --> 0:37:54.279 How do you make meaning of the person's contribution to 0:37:54.320 --> 0:37:58.880 your life and what you've learned from the grieving process, 0:37:58.960 --> 0:38:02.359 and how do you take the next step that has 0:38:02.400 --> 0:38:04.680 some purpose in meaning to it. So that's what I 0:38:04.760 --> 0:38:08.520 mean by that. I love that. What do you do 0:38:08.840 --> 0:38:13.279 when you know other loved ones, for instance, of the 0:38:13.320 --> 0:38:18.640 person who has passed are at different stages You know, 0:38:19.000 --> 0:38:23.560 you may have this could be somebody's parent and that 0:38:23.680 --> 0:38:27.040 parent is ready to date and blah blah blah, and 0:38:27.080 --> 0:38:29.560 all the kids are like, well, wait, we're still grieving 0:38:29.680 --> 0:38:33.000 or you know whatever that situation. How do you deal 0:38:33.080 --> 0:38:36.880 with when you are at different places with the shared 0:38:37.200 --> 0:38:42.359 grievers if you will? Yeah, So there's no one right 0:38:42.400 --> 0:38:47.839 way to grieve. And if you're feeling like someone in 0:38:47.960 --> 0:38:51.480 your family system is crazy, just remember that it's not 0:38:51.560 --> 0:38:54.520 them that's crazy. It's the situation that's crazy, because losing 0:38:54.560 --> 0:38:58.560 someone you love it's just a shitty situation. But it's 0:38:59.040 --> 0:39:03.000 the situation is crazy, it's not the person. And unless 0:39:03.600 --> 0:39:08.040 there are warning signs of this person is harming themselves 0:39:08.120 --> 0:39:11.759 or others, So that would be things like suicide risk, 0:39:11.920 --> 0:39:14.960 they're wanting to end their own life, or they want 0:39:14.960 --> 0:39:19.000 to follow their loved one into the dying process, you know, 0:39:19.080 --> 0:39:22.800 call the suicide helpline immediately. Second is if they're abusing 0:39:22.880 --> 0:39:27.480 drugs or alcohol. And the third is if they are 0:39:27.640 --> 0:39:31.680 so distressed that they can't function, shower, feed themselves, take 0:39:31.760 --> 0:39:34.760 care of children. Those would be the three warning signs 0:39:34.800 --> 0:39:39.319 that actually, this person needs some additional help, like emergency 0:39:39.600 --> 0:39:42.879 intervention sort of thing. Correct. In the case of suicide, 0:39:43.080 --> 0:39:45.680 you need to interview immediately. In the case of something 0:39:45.719 --> 0:39:49.720 like drugs or alcohol, engage the situation, but probably support 0:39:49.719 --> 0:39:53.719 of a therapist or professional would be good. Aside from 0:39:53.719 --> 0:39:58.200 those things, there's no right or wrong way right there's 0:39:58.239 --> 0:40:01.879 a lot of variation, and I just want to mention that, 0:40:01.960 --> 0:40:05.400 you know, Elizabeth Kobler Ross gave us these wonderful stages 0:40:05.400 --> 0:40:09.839 of grief, but they were actually descriptive of people who 0:40:09.840 --> 0:40:13.680 were dying, not people who are grieving. Now that they've 0:40:13.680 --> 0:40:17.160 been adopted for people who are grieving. But these are 0:40:17.200 --> 0:40:20.719 not linear, and she herself acknowledged that as she was 0:40:20.760 --> 0:40:23.960 in her own dying process. She said, we cycle through 0:40:24.000 --> 0:40:26.520 all of these. Some of us never experienced any of them. 0:40:26.560 --> 0:40:29.880 They're not meant to be proscriptive. They were simply described 0:40:29.920 --> 0:40:33.600 what she saw in her research. So one thing to 0:40:33.640 --> 0:40:37.160 remember is we're not all trying to race to acceptance 0:40:37.960 --> 0:40:40.440 or meaning making, which was what David Kessler added as 0:40:40.480 --> 0:40:43.160 a sixth stage. It's not a race and it's not 0:40:43.200 --> 0:40:47.520 a competition. But within a family system, it can be 0:40:47.640 --> 0:40:51.880 so frustrating when someone else is grieving differently from you. 0:40:52.600 --> 0:40:55.319 I mean, take an example of one person who wants 0:40:55.360 --> 0:40:58.440 to process all their grief verbally. They just want to 0:40:58.440 --> 0:41:02.080 talk all the time about the person, about their memories, 0:41:02.080 --> 0:41:04.120 and you have someone else in the family who just 0:41:04.320 --> 0:41:06.759 wants to be in nature and go for a run 0:41:06.760 --> 0:41:10.520 in the morning and be left alone. They're both processing 0:41:10.520 --> 0:41:14.279 and healthy ways. Both of them, but to each other, 0:41:14.480 --> 0:41:18.680 they're probably endlessly frustrating. The person who just wants to 0:41:18.719 --> 0:41:21.560 be in nature and go for his run is probably like, 0:41:21.719 --> 0:41:24.960 please stop talking to me. I just need quiet to 0:41:25.000 --> 0:41:27.680 really feel my feelings. And this person over here just 0:41:27.680 --> 0:41:30.239 wants to talk is saying you are totally unavailable to me. 0:41:30.680 --> 0:41:33.840 How can you be so cruel to not speak about 0:41:33.880 --> 0:41:38.560 this person? I think what's important is acceptance needs to 0:41:38.600 --> 0:41:41.240 be not just about the loss, but about each other's process. 0:41:42.280 --> 0:41:44.520 You can get to a place of this is this 0:41:44.600 --> 0:41:49.440 person's unique way of dealing with this loss, and really 0:41:49.480 --> 0:41:53.120 it's about being there for each other. Sometimes I need 0:41:53.160 --> 0:41:56.520 to honor this person's need to talk about it and 0:41:56.600 --> 0:42:00.200 I'll just listen. And then sometimes this person is going 0:42:00.280 --> 0:42:02.200 to need to honor my need to be alone and 0:42:02.280 --> 0:42:06.000 be in nature because that's what calms me down. That's 0:42:06.040 --> 0:42:12.040 not easy, right, But I do think that knowing that 0:42:12.280 --> 0:42:17.600 your grief process is not anybody else's grief process is 0:42:17.680 --> 0:42:22.200 really important, and also knowing that these descriptions of what 0:42:22.280 --> 0:42:26.200 grief looks like, from denial to anger, all of these stages, 0:42:26.680 --> 0:42:30.759 it's not the way that we should grieve, right. The 0:42:30.880 --> 0:42:35.600 important part, I think is to notice our own tendencies. Okay, 0:42:35.640 --> 0:42:38.759 my tendency with grief is to shut down and not 0:42:38.840 --> 0:42:41.680 talk to anybody, And I know this comes from maybe 0:42:41.680 --> 0:42:45.200 an avoidant attachment history. I know that's my tendency. I'm 0:42:45.239 --> 0:42:48.400 aware of it, and when I'm under stressed, that's what 0:42:48.480 --> 0:42:50.960 I revert to, because when any of us are under stressed, 0:42:50.960 --> 0:42:55.479 we revert to old patterns. But I'm aware that my 0:42:55.719 --> 0:43:00.720 romantic partner maybe really needs me to be present. So 0:43:01.040 --> 0:43:04.120 I'm noticing my tendency to shut down. What happens if 0:43:04.160 --> 0:43:07.960 I'm just opening the door like one notch and saying, hey, 0:43:08.000 --> 0:43:12.399 I'm having a hard day, that's huge, right, So if 0:43:12.440 --> 0:43:15.879 you can shift your style to turn toward these other 0:43:15.920 --> 0:43:18.720 people in your life are also grieving in their own way, 0:43:19.200 --> 0:43:21.680 it makes a huge difference. You don't have to go 0:43:21.960 --> 0:43:25.919 full one eighty and do what they're doing, but try 0:43:25.960 --> 0:43:28.239 turning towards them a little bit and see if you 0:43:28.280 --> 0:43:32.040 can accept their process is what they're doing. Yeah, that's 0:43:32.160 --> 0:43:36.320 that's awesome. And thankfully I think that I'm an only child, 0:43:36.400 --> 0:43:42.240 so you know, I haven't I've seen situations where people 0:43:42.680 --> 0:43:46.320 are at different grieving processes with their brothers and sisters, 0:43:46.800 --> 0:43:50.160 and it just sucks because you want to talk to 0:43:50.320 --> 0:43:52.719 your brother or sister or whatever and say, you know, 0:43:53.160 --> 0:43:58.000 I'm really feeling upset about mom or dad, and they're like, well, 0:43:58.120 --> 0:44:00.400 get over it. It's been six months or you know, 0:44:00.440 --> 0:44:02.319 and I'm at work, leave me alone, or you know, 0:44:02.400 --> 0:44:05.319 And that's got to really be hard. But what you're 0:44:05.360 --> 0:44:11.399 saying is if we can acknowledge each other's needs and 0:44:11.440 --> 0:44:16.040 where we are in our process while kind of giving 0:44:16.080 --> 0:44:19.359 an equilibrium to let me give you some of what 0:44:19.440 --> 0:44:22.319 you need and then you kind of give me what 0:44:22.520 --> 0:44:26.800 I need, we can kind of eliminate a lot of that. Yeah, 0:44:26.840 --> 0:44:31.160 I think that's right. Everyone is on their own timeline. 0:44:31.719 --> 0:44:35.000 You'll never stop grieving your loved one. They were a 0:44:35.080 --> 0:44:39.280 huge part of your life after all. But it's incredibly 0:44:39.320 --> 0:44:42.239 harmful and not at all supportive to tell someone they 0:44:42.239 --> 0:44:45.319 should be over it. And that doesn't matter if it's 0:44:45.600 --> 0:44:50.840 a month later, ten years later, seventy years later. Getting 0:44:50.880 --> 0:44:53.600 over it is just not something that's going to happen. 0:44:54.000 --> 0:44:59.719 It's dismissive, it's toxic, and it's wrong when we were 0:45:00.640 --> 0:45:04.600 Doctor Stern discusses how people with different communication styles can 0:45:04.640 --> 0:45:07.880 actually negotiate to give each other what they need to 0:45:07.920 --> 0:45:21.399 support them on their grief journeys when we return. As 0:45:21.400 --> 0:45:24.680 you move through your grief journey, some people may need 0:45:24.719 --> 0:45:28.080 to set boundaries for their grief, not only with themselves 0:45:28.120 --> 0:45:31.200 but with others. Allowing it to come all at once 0:45:31.360 --> 0:45:35.640 whenever at once twenty four to seven can put them 0:45:35.680 --> 0:45:38.920 in a position of not being able to function. And 0:45:39.200 --> 0:45:43.359 while that's absolutely expected early on, as the years go on, 0:45:43.480 --> 0:45:46.520 if it's still consuming you twenty four hours a day, 0:45:46.600 --> 0:45:49.000 seven days a week, to the point that you can't function, 0:45:49.680 --> 0:45:53.480 it is disrupting your life. That's not to say that 0:45:53.520 --> 0:45:57.040 it's somehow unhealthy to break down over your loved one 0:45:57.320 --> 0:46:01.920 or cry hysterically. None of those are wrong. It's simply 0:46:02.000 --> 0:46:04.600 saying that it wouldn't be healthy to let it affect 0:46:04.640 --> 0:46:06.920 you to the point where you're not able to function 0:46:07.120 --> 0:46:09.520 day in and day out, where you're not able to 0:46:09.560 --> 0:46:13.040 go to work, or go to school, or enjoy activities 0:46:13.080 --> 0:46:17.359 of your own. Doctor Stern has some great suggestions on 0:46:17.560 --> 0:46:20.719 how to keep that in check with yourself and especially 0:46:20.840 --> 0:46:24.879 with other people. The other thing is to know other 0:46:24.880 --> 0:46:29.960 people's communication styles, which you know before the loss. Some 0:46:29.960 --> 0:46:35.040 folks really need boundaries around the times that they allow 0:46:35.120 --> 0:46:39.359 themselves to grieve, because if they kind of let that 0:46:39.520 --> 0:46:41.960 in when they're in the middle of their work day 0:46:42.040 --> 0:46:44.080 or they're dropping their kids up at school in the morning, 0:46:45.280 --> 0:46:48.600 it just disrupts the entire day. So for some people, 0:46:48.680 --> 0:46:51.880 it's a matter of setting a boundary. Hey, I really 0:46:52.160 --> 0:46:54.120 I really want to talk to you about Mom, but 0:46:54.640 --> 0:46:58.000 I can't from nine to six. Those are my work hours, 0:46:58.560 --> 0:47:01.680 and when I think about her during those times, I 0:47:01.800 --> 0:47:04.399 can't get anything done. I can't focus. It's really hard 0:47:04.480 --> 0:47:07.920 for me. That's also part of grief and in trying 0:47:07.920 --> 0:47:11.319 to kind of rebuild your life that those boundaries are 0:47:11.320 --> 0:47:15.160 important for you to maintain, and they're important to communicate 0:47:15.160 --> 0:47:18.320 to the other members of your family system, right, Because 0:47:18.320 --> 0:47:21.000 it could be that the answer is actually, yes, I 0:47:21.040 --> 0:47:23.920 do want to talk about Mom, but no, you can't 0:47:23.960 --> 0:47:27.759 call me at ten am at the office, right, And 0:47:27.840 --> 0:47:31.480 so finding a middle ground of let's find a time 0:47:31.520 --> 0:47:33.640 to talk that works for both of us. I actually 0:47:33.719 --> 0:47:36.480 really want to do this with you, but let's both 0:47:36.520 --> 0:47:39.640 agree on what's going to work with both of us. Right. 0:47:40.400 --> 0:47:44.240 And Similarly, people are going to have varying needs over time, 0:47:45.000 --> 0:47:47.280 so some of that's going to need to be recalibrated 0:47:47.280 --> 0:47:51.080 as you go along. Having a conversation about boundaries right 0:47:51.120 --> 0:47:54.160 now is great and then revisited a few months later 0:47:54.160 --> 0:47:57.120 if you need to. It's interesting that you say that 0:47:57.200 --> 0:48:02.520 because I remember specifically where I was working this gig, 0:48:02.560 --> 0:48:04.640 you know, this project that I was working on, and 0:48:04.800 --> 0:48:09.480 I could not allow myself to start thinking about it 0:48:09.680 --> 0:48:12.799 during those hours because if I did, it would have 0:48:12.920 --> 0:48:15.919 spiraled and I would not have been able to get 0:48:15.920 --> 0:48:18.919 out of it. And then you know, I can't get 0:48:19.000 --> 0:48:21.239 kicked off a project or whatever, or not get the 0:48:21.280 --> 0:48:24.960 work done or whatever because I've been crying in the 0:48:25.000 --> 0:48:28.080 bathroom for the last four hours or whatever. So it's 0:48:28.120 --> 0:48:30.640 also I think important to know from what you've said 0:48:30.680 --> 0:48:35.440 that it's okay to give yourself the space to do 0:48:35.520 --> 0:48:39.359 it and give yourself the space to not do it, 0:48:39.400 --> 0:48:43.640 and by do it, I mean allow to tackle grief 0:48:43.719 --> 0:48:47.520 or whatever it is you're feeling at that time. Yeah, 0:48:47.560 --> 0:48:52.759 I think it's important to name this phenomenon, so emotion suppression. 0:48:53.920 --> 0:48:56.680 This is a skill that most of us have to 0:48:56.840 --> 0:49:00.360 varying degrees. Folks are more avoidant in their attack hatchment 0:49:00.760 --> 0:49:03.560 are great at suppressing emotion, but it tends to be 0:49:04.040 --> 0:49:07.880 a little too much. Folks who are securely attached, you know, 0:49:08.040 --> 0:49:10.640 we can do this too, but it's not our default mode. 0:49:11.040 --> 0:49:13.160 Folks who are anxiously attached to have a really hard 0:49:13.200 --> 0:49:17.520 time not just expressing their emotions all the time. That's, 0:49:17.640 --> 0:49:21.960 of course a big generalization, but emotion suppression is useful 0:49:21.960 --> 0:49:25.080 in the short term. It's a tool in our tool 0:49:25.120 --> 0:49:27.839 belt for not falling apart when we're doing the things 0:49:27.880 --> 0:49:30.920 we need to do, especially for parents who have lost 0:49:30.960 --> 0:49:33.839 somebody and need to show up and be strong for 0:49:33.880 --> 0:49:36.520 their kids so they don't pass on the trauma of 0:49:36.560 --> 0:49:40.280 that loss. You need to be able to tamp down 0:49:40.360 --> 0:49:44.880 sometimes and hold off on expressing fully what you're feeling, 0:49:45.920 --> 0:49:50.040 but just make sure that you do make time to 0:49:50.239 --> 0:49:54.040 feel and express what you're feeling, and that you have 0:49:54.080 --> 0:49:58.200 somebody to lean on when you need to be taken 0:49:58.239 --> 0:50:01.319 care of, rather than you being the careta right, So 0:50:01.440 --> 0:50:04.080 emotion suppression really good in the short term. What we 0:50:04.160 --> 0:50:07.279 know about emotion suppression in the long term, if you 0:50:07.480 --> 0:50:11.360 never allow that intentional space to feel what you're feeling 0:50:11.360 --> 0:50:15.640 around grief, it does tend to lead to health problems. 0:50:15.760 --> 0:50:20.000 So inflammation again tends to go up, sleep tends to 0:50:20.000 --> 0:50:24.680 be disrupted and your immune function is worse off. So 0:50:24.760 --> 0:50:27.160 just remember, yes, it's a tool in your tool belt, 0:50:27.800 --> 0:50:30.719 but use that emotion suppression when you need it, and 0:50:30.760 --> 0:50:34.719 then make intentional time and space to process honestly and 0:50:34.800 --> 0:50:37.800 to grapple with what you're feeling in a real way. 0:50:38.040 --> 0:50:40.200 It could be in the evenings, it could be first 0:50:40.239 --> 0:50:42.360 thing in the morning if you meditate or do yoga, 0:50:42.480 --> 0:50:46.000 go for a run, but guard those times when you 0:50:46.040 --> 0:50:49.680 sit down and feel what you need to. For some folks, 0:50:49.680 --> 0:50:53.600 that means journaling, writing it down, sometimes just writing down 0:50:53.920 --> 0:50:57.400 all the anger or whatever it is that you're grappling 0:50:57.400 --> 0:51:00.839 with guilt. Writing it down gives it less power over you. 0:51:02.160 --> 0:51:04.640 A lot of people are afraid that once they say 0:51:04.680 --> 0:51:08.320 something out loud or write it down, or I'm feeling 0:51:08.320 --> 0:51:12.520 responsible for this person's death, what if I had done X, Y, 0:51:12.560 --> 0:51:15.440 and Z, all of these regrets you had about the relationship. 0:51:16.440 --> 0:51:19.120 A lot of folks are afraid of saying or writing 0:51:19.160 --> 0:51:23.040 those thoughts down because then it makes them real. The 0:51:23.080 --> 0:51:27.120 opposite is actually true. You can start to release them 0:51:27.280 --> 0:51:31.279 so they don't constantly fled your consciousness. By simply expressing them, 0:51:31.320 --> 0:51:33.480 they have less power over you when you express them. 0:51:34.840 --> 0:51:37.800 The last thing is just the real goal of healing 0:51:37.920 --> 0:51:40.120 is not to get rid of your grief altogether, so 0:51:40.160 --> 0:51:42.120 it's not to be able to go to work and 0:51:42.160 --> 0:51:45.640 never think about this person again. The goal of grief 0:51:45.880 --> 0:51:48.399 is to grieve with more love than pain. In David 0:51:48.480 --> 0:51:51.399 Kessler's words, I really like that, grieve with more love 0:51:51.440 --> 0:51:55.760 than pain. So there's that phrase grief comes in waves, 0:51:55.800 --> 0:51:58.600 which is very true. And in the course of your day, 0:51:58.800 --> 0:52:01.879 even if you've set aside at time and you're like, Okay, 0:52:01.920 --> 0:52:04.359 I'm not going to think about this right now, there 0:52:04.440 --> 0:52:07.360 might be an emotional trigger for you at the office. 0:52:07.440 --> 0:52:10.800 Let's say you go into the fridge and maybe you 0:52:10.920 --> 0:52:15.600 get yogurt and that was your parents' favorite flavor or whatever. 0:52:15.719 --> 0:52:19.560 It might be something totally mundane and inconsequential, and suddenly 0:52:20.440 --> 0:52:24.600 the grief comes up. And that's okay, that's going to happen. 0:52:24.800 --> 0:52:27.600 There are these little triggers everywhere in your life that 0:52:27.680 --> 0:52:31.560 will remind you of this person. But as time goes on, 0:52:31.800 --> 0:52:35.799 just trust that those triggers will start to be more 0:52:36.160 --> 0:52:41.880 bitter sweet than they are bitter. What is if you 0:52:41.920 --> 0:52:45.719 could leave one thing with people relating to all of 0:52:45.719 --> 0:52:48.880 the things we've talked about grief and attachment in general. 0:52:49.360 --> 0:52:52.040 If they could only take away one thing from you, 0:52:52.640 --> 0:52:57.120 what would that be? That grief reveals what we truly 0:52:57.160 --> 0:53:02.520 love and value, so don't shy away from it, and 0:53:02.600 --> 0:53:06.400 also don't be afraid to lean on people and to 0:53:06.480 --> 0:53:10.279 ask for what you need when you're grieving. Chances are, 0:53:10.840 --> 0:53:14.680 just like your friend, people might need to be asked 0:53:14.800 --> 0:53:17.719 or told what to do because they're in shock or 0:53:17.760 --> 0:53:22.080 they're going through their own stuff. But the biggest mistake 0:53:22.160 --> 0:53:23.960 we make is to think we have to go through 0:53:24.000 --> 0:53:31.600 grief alone, and we don't. The biggest mistake we make 0:53:32.080 --> 0:53:35.719 is to think we have to go through grief alone. 0:53:37.120 --> 0:53:42.800 An incredible insight from doctor Stern. Support systems are vital 0:53:42.840 --> 0:53:46.160 to our very existence as humans. When you want to 0:53:46.200 --> 0:53:49.399 ignore that phone call from your friend because you'll call 0:53:49.480 --> 0:53:53.719 him next week, pick up the phone. Haven't heard from 0:53:53.760 --> 0:53:57.759 your sister in a little while, caller. Not only is 0:53:57.800 --> 0:54:02.280 time not ever guaranteed, and I guarantee you you'll regret 0:54:02.320 --> 0:54:05.359 it when you don't have that time, but you will 0:54:05.440 --> 0:54:09.640 literally be healthier both physically and mentally from those connections 0:54:09.680 --> 0:54:14.200 that you have. Show up for yourself, so you can 0:54:14.200 --> 0:54:17.399 show up for others and they'll show up for you. 0:54:19.400 --> 0:54:22.960 Because support systems and healthy attachments are what get us 0:54:22.960 --> 0:54:40.320 through life and death. On the next episode of Death, Grief, 0:54:40.520 --> 0:54:44.040 and Other shit we don't discuss, I traveled to lily Dale, 0:54:44.120 --> 0:54:47.879 New York, a quaint hamlet whose entire population is made 0:54:47.920 --> 0:54:51.440 up of certified mediums and spiritualists, and it's said to 0:54:51.440 --> 0:54:54.719 be a place for spiritual healing. I talk with a 0:54:54.760 --> 0:54:58.400 few of the residents of lily Dale, including Reverend Angie apt, 0:54:58.680 --> 0:55:01.680 a spiritual counsel and medium, to see if she could 0:55:01.719 --> 0:55:04.719 give me some insight into the other side and if 0:55:04.719 --> 0:55:11.840 I'm truly able to contact my mom. I'm going to 0:55:12.080 --> 0:55:25.040 see my mother. She said she'd be me when I come. 0:55:24.520 --> 0:55:42.880 I just googled overgoa. I'm just glooled. We're over I'm 0:55:42.960 --> 0:55:44.040 into the school.